Shortcuts Today Mean Setbacks Tomorrow

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This is the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their profession, and their relationships.

The phone number for you to jump in today: 888-825-5225.

Triple 8-825-5225.

Alongside the lovely and talented Rachel Cruz, I am Kid Coleman.

You ready to go, partner?

Always, always, Ken.

All right, here we go.

Tina is going to start us off in Houston, Texas.

Tina, how can we help today?

Hi, thank you for taking my call.

I'm excited to talk to you guys.

A little bit nervous on what you're going to tell me, but here's my dilemma.

I have an opportunity, a new career opportunity.

One of the questions on the application said, you cannot have filed bankruptcy to deceive your creditors ever.

So I answered no, that I had not.

But over 35 years ago,

I filed bankruptcy only because

I wanted to save my parents' home who passed away and it had started to go into foreclosure.

So I did a quick claim deed to put it in my name so that I could file bankruptcy and save a home.

So my question is:

will they be able to see that?

And how would they be able to see that?

Well, the only reason they would be able to see it is if they pulled your credit report.

And so on that, yes, there would be the bankruptcy.

But I think it disappears

within a timeframe.

And I think 35 years exceeds that.

So

are you Googling?

Are you looking up real quick again?

I know the the time frame itself Yeah, I think 35 years it exceeds it but my question to you Tina is

was there any part of you because it said did you file bankruptcy and you said no correct right yes

is there is there anything within you though from like a conscious standpoint of saying hey I did it was 35 years ago and here's the reason why versus lying

well

see and there lies the dilemma because I really didn't file bankruptcy to defraud my creditors.

I had other

creditors that I could have added to that bankruptcy.

Yeah, but you, you, you, but you file bankruptcy, rupty to defraud your parents' creditors.

Right, not mine.

But that's what the question said.

I know, but

you're playing some massive political semantics.

You should run for Congress.

I think you've got a real skill for being an elected elected official.

Here's the question.

No, no, no, no.

Listen, you called us.

You called us.

You're right.

So, first of all,

by the way,

I'm not judging you.

Okay.

I'm just simply saying

you're doing some unbelievable mental and ethical gymnastics.

You defrauded.

You lied about your bankruptcy, true or false.

True.

Okay.

So I don't, it's not my opinion.

It's not kin judging.

But you called, so that's the first issue.

The second issue is, is not only did you do that, you lied on your application.

And then you called us and you said, can they find out?

And according to the rules here, you got chapter seven bankruptcies are usually remaining on your record for 10 years and then 13

would be seven years.

So yours?

Was yours 13 or seven?

Yeah.

So, okay, so you're saying that it's not visible if they were to pull my credit report.

According to what I'm seeing on the internet, but you should pull your own credit report on this because you've lied.

And so now you're hoping that you're hoping that you don't get caught lying.

Tina,

is the employer,

do you have a contact to them personally or is this like an internet application or something and there's like a faceless person behind it?

Well, well

it's

it was an online application and once you say yes you can't explain that's why I said no so that I can explain once you say yes you're not able to explain your situation why did you ask that Rachel I'm curious why did I ask what that question you just asked her well because I was gonna say if you can call the person at least to get your conscience right and just to say hey this happened on the application here's why I said it because it didn't give me another like at least to be able to explain to try to save the situation.

I just wouldn't want to go into a work environment knowing I had lied.

And you're just, there's a little bit of you that will always be looking over your shoulder.

Yeah, and Tina, here's my concern for you.

And again, no judgment here,

but I'm just giving you my thoughts.

Let's say you get through the process because you did lie.

And your whole point of what you're telling Rachel and I is, I lied so that I don't get dismissed because I want to get the interview, at which point I'm going to come clean on something I lied about 35 years ago.

That's what you're telling us you're going to do.

So, if I believe you,

I still think that could blow up in your face because they could go, well, you lied on

the application about the fact that you lied 35 years ago.

You know, I could see a lot of hiring managers go, I don't know that I can trust you.

It's a good story.

It sounds very Robin Hood-esque.

That's why I'm not

seriously.

It sounds noble.

Sure.

But it's

there's at least a story story behind it.

I mean, like, yeah.

But

what line of work are you in, Tina?

Is it like financial?

No, no, it's sales.

Why would they ask that?

I thought that was a very specific.

Yeah, why is it so specific about that on the job application?

Well, I mean, I really can't go too deep into that part because

you're applying for a job where it matters, right?

Or the employer is going to listen to this segment.

No, no, no, no.

Exactly.

I'm not asking you.

She doesn't want to get caught because she called the show.

I'm sorry.

I'm not going to give out to

you.

They may listen to Ramsey.

Yeah, you think?

Are you using a fake name, by the way?

Don't put her on the spot.

What?

She put herself on the spot.

She called into a really big show.

You called into a national show and told us about two massive lies, and you're worried about me putting her on the spot?

Here's what I was asking.

No, no, no.

Stay with me.

I'm not dumb enough to ask you the name of the company.

I mean, I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I'm not that dumb.

I'm asking, is it a, what industry is it in?

What type of work is it that would ask that question?

I can't tell you because it would give too much information on the company.

I got to tell you something, Tina.

If you don't have a future in Congress, you have a future working for the FBI or the CIA.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Maybe I'll change my career path.

You probably should.

I feel like this is straight out of the headlines.

Well, my advice to you, Tina, would be

if you end up getting the interview, you have to come clean for your own,

you know what I mean?

Your own con.

I mean, yeah, but I mean,

she may not get the job because of it, is what you're saying.

I'd say that it's a role of the day.

They may, yes, but they may also be like, oh, that's great.

Okay, yeah, that part doesn't really matter.

And then they may move on.

I don't know.

Exactly.

35 years ago, you did not have to be a huge man.

I wouldn't have lied, though.

I heard all trouble.

Look at you, Tina.

You are running for Congress from the great state of Texas.

You're going to do great on the Sunday morning shows.

You'll do great on all of the

joke.

Really not complimenting you.

Oh, let me tell you something.

Yeah.

Let me tell you something.

When I did that, we were able to

save the home.

And we were able, my sisters and I were able to spell the home.

Well, I get this.

This is an old thing called the ends justify the means.

Not a new concept.

Not a new concept at all.

I think it's a tough situation.

I'm not judging you.

You did what you did.

You're a nice, nice daughter.

You got yourself in a situation potentially.

Hope it goes well.

I take the dice in with me and roll them, baby.

Roll them.

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All right, let's go to Edward, who is joining us from New York City.

Edward, how can we help?

Yes, hi.

Currently, I'm unemployed, and my wife is working.

And we have two cars as it is.

One of them has some sort of debt on it, and the other one is at the point where it won't pass inspection anymore.

And I was wondering, you know, my wife wants me to go and get a new car, an underused car that's $25,000, and she wants me to ask my family for the money.

And I was like, wondering, should I do this?

Have you borrowed money before from your family?

Is why she brought this up?

Or is this a new idea?

No, I have not borrowed money from my family before.

She wants me to go ask my dad for the money.

Yeah.

And what was your reaction?

I had a lot of money.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think I know the answer to this, but what was your reaction when she suggested that?

My reaction was like,

we don't need a new car.

We already have two cars.

Fantastic.

You said one has a dent and then the other is what?

It can't pass inspection.

Is that what you were saying?

Yeah,

the first one that we have is a newer car.

We only owe $2,000 on that car.

The second car was a gift from her parents, and it will no longer pass inspection.

Why?

And

it just needs more work than it's worth for fixing.

Okay, do you guys have any cash saved up?

We have about $30,000 in cash.

How much?

$30,000?

$30,000, yes.

Okay, so why does your wife...

I'm a little confused.

Why doesn't she just want to use the money you guys have saved?

Personally, I don't want to use the money we have saved because I'm unemployed right now and we rent.

And we just signed a new year lease.

And we need that money to pay for rent.

Edward, when are you going to start working?

I've been applying for jobs I'm trying.

Is the second car, well, we'll get to that in a minute.

Is the second car

drivable?

Yes.

How often do you have to do inspections in New York?

Yeah,

is it coming up due?

It's due.

We got rejected a couple of days ago.

And so, what, your tags can't get updated?

Like, what's the repercussions of it in New York?

So, I'm actually near New York.

So, the repercussions are that, yeah, the repercussions are that if it's not fixed within a certain time, like I guess you just keep going and going and going.

But after a certain point, I really don't know.

No, no, no, no.

If you didn't get paid, we need a new car because she wants a bigger car.

She just wants a bigger car.

Oh, I know.

This is what she wants.

This entire thing is about what she wants.

You don't want it.

We're trying to help you through this.

Because I understand you're trying to save your cash because you're unemployed.

And so I'm going to get real practical here.

This is not normal financial advice.

This is what I would do.

I can't wait to see what Rachel thinks about this.

If I was in your situation and you didn't get passed on your specs, which means you can't get your up-to-date registration on the car, correct?

Correct.

I'd roll the dice on that one.

I love a little civil disobedience from time to time.

I see some people in the audience are, oh, we have a lot of

nonsense.

A lot of people agree with me.

So now I don't care what Rachel says at all.

I would roll the dice on that and look for cops everywhere.

I've done that game before, and it's kind of like Frogger, you know, you're like, oh, I think there's a cop on my back left about a half mile away.

I really would roll the dice until you got employed.

Because then I would use the $30,000 to buy a nice car, but tell her, no, babe, you've already got your

fancy new car that we owe two grand now.

We're paying that baby off.

And then once I'm employed, we're going to take some of the 30 and get you a reliable car in the 10 to 15 range.

That's where my head goes.

She says none of them, none of them, she says neither of them are big enough for her.

Why?

Is there eight kids?

We only have one kid.

Oh, okay.

Little kids.

Have you ever taken issue with anything your wife has said?

And if you have, how did that go?

That's kind of personal.

Yeah.

So is this whole phone call?

So is borrowing money from your parents, Edward.

What's the answer?

Because I just hit a nerve, by the way, and everybody knows.

You said that was personal.

Yeah, go ahead.

What's the answer to my very personal question?

Sure, I have, but you know what?

I've just kind of ruled the roost at times, but this one I'm kind of putting my foot down.

I'm saying, I don't think we need another car.

Good, put your foot down.

And let me say this.

You're not being unreasonable, Edward.

You're unemployed.

You guys have money saved.

You're choosing not to spend your money on a purchase you need, and you're going to go and extend yourself, not only just to a bank, but to your family to borrow money on something that you don't need.

Like there's like three things right there that are like, nope, nope.

And by the way, you agree with us on all of this.

You don't agree with it.

You called us to get confirmation.

That's what you call it.

What kind of cars do y'all have now?

We have a Lexus and a very old Highlander.

All right.

So is it a car, a sedan, or an SUV, the one she's driving?

They're both SUVs.

Oh, and so.

So the Lexus SUV, it's just a little too small.

I'm going to to tell you, man, I'm going to review this because this is cutting through.

It's really sad.

I mean, I'm really, I feel claustrophobic thinking about it, Ken.

Yeah.

I would tell the wife.

I'm a small Lexus SUV.

I'd tell the wife, sweetheart, I'm sorry.

Your car is big enough.

And I would roll the registration dice.

I think you can dodge cops for a long time.

How long do you think it's going to take you to get a job, Edward?

I've been trying.

For how long?

I took a package.

Five months.

I took a decent-sized package from work and I'm looking so what does that mean when does your

package end because you're living off of your severance I'm guessing

no no so like it was a one-month sum and I eight months pay was that part of the 30,000

yes some of that is what were you making before you got laid off for like a 90

bro

let me tell you something I'm going to tell you this, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart.

I appreciate the fact that you're trying.

I don't think you're trying well enough.

I'm going to give give you a couple of resources.

But

one of the best things you can do right now is get a job.

It may not be the $90,000 job that you had before.

It may not be in the career lane that you want to be in.

But in this interim period, we know from psychology studies that losing a job has the same psychological and emotional impact as losing a loved one.

And you need to get to work.

While you're looking, you're working.

And I don't care if it's a $25 an hour manual labor job, a $20 an hour job.

I don't care.

You need to be working because it's going to keep you going in the game physiologically.

Yeah, which is, and it's going to,

and let me say this: that's going to take, that's a level of deep humility.

Yeah, it is.

And for your wife not to have the car she wants is going to take a level of like dying to self and deep humility.

And there's some of this, and I don't know if it's true, Edward, or not, but this keeping up lifestyle of continuing to want bigger and better constantly and not being satisfied if that's not the case

is a disease that we all have as Americans, right?

And some may have it worse than others.

But there's a contentment issue here too, Edward, for you and your wife and all of it.

And if you live your life really dependent upon what other people think from your job to your car, you guys are going to live an exhausted life.

It's not worth it.

It's not worth it.

And so.

Yeah, I think you're preaching to the choir on that one.

It's just, you know, look, I don't need the car.

I mean, I don't.

I mean, I'm very happy with what I have.

I've come from very little.

And, you know, I never took private jet flights like my wife did and things like that.

So it's like, I guess.

So she's come from

a certain lifestyle, though, Edward.

Oh, very lovely.

She's coming from a certain lifestyle, right?

And her expectations are very high, correct?

Yeah.

Yeah, but listen.

That's what I'm saying.

I'm like, but you're not going to be able to do that.

You got to say no.

That's why I asked the question.

I wasn't being funny.

Yeah, and we can say no in this one instance.

I worry for her, though, in life, is what I'm saying.

I know, but this is a marriage conversation.

It totally is.

So he's got to go no.

Here's why.

And here's why.

He's got to get away from it.

Yeah.

And Edward, I mean, like, I mean, I don't know.

I don't want to put words in your mouth or make you concerned about something you're not, but there's a

expectation in life, and it's coming up in this instance, and I'm sure it's come up in other instances, and it will continue to come up until the heart of the issue is hit on.

And that is,

that's gratitude, that's generosity, that's humility.

Like there is a character

in all of us that is so key.

How long have y'all been married?

Three years.

I can tell you what this is right now.

You all have an expectation problem.

No, he she does, is what it sounds like.

But it's their problem.

Yeah.

Her expectations are great.

Great expectations that become unmet expectations, become massive frustrations.

Man, this is a marriage issue, and you're going to have to stand strong on this and go, we got to get on the same page, babe.

Yeah, and I would be pushing some of this emotional stuff too for y'all to be growing and her to be, you know, absolutely.

Real quick, Edward, hang on the line.

Christian, let's get him a copy of the proximity principle and the contentment journal for her.

Oh, wow.

Shots fired

by Rachel.

I'm sure she's my spirit animal.

So, like,

I get it.

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Olivia joins us now in Anchorage, Alaska.

Olivia, how can we help?

Hi, can you hear me?

Loud and clear.

What's up?

Oh, good.

Oh, good.

I, my husband and I, we're on baby step two, and we've recently hit like a, like a, I don't know, like a lull, I guess.

Um, we started with 111,000 in debt.

Now we're at 43,000 in debt, not including our home.

Um, and I was wondering if maybe we should start downsizing our like farm animals to try to speed up things.

Tell us more about these farm animals, because as you might guess, Rachel and I really don't know farm animals.

Well, I don't know if like I'm actually like a farmer, but I did have

you know more than I do.

I promise you that.

So give us a list.

Like, what are the animals?

And by selling them, how much money would you generate?

So it wouldn't generate money.

It would just cut back our expenses,

which is where it's at.

So, right, we started with 100 chickens.

Now we're down to 30.

And so if I cut that down to like 10.

or 15, then it would cut our expenses maybe in half.

Oh, so it's just chicken.

Yeah, it's just chickens.

I mean, how much would it save you a month?

It's right now, the chicken food expenses, because I buy like this really expensive grain, it's

$600 a month for all the pet expenses.

So I think the chickens are $400 a month, so it would save me maybe $200 a month.

How much do you guys make a year?

We make $89,000 a year.

Okay.

I got a quick question because I mean,

I'm clueless about this.

Quick question, real quick.

My friend has four city chickens.

They just got them.

How many eggs do 30 chickens produce?

One a day, usually, right, Olivia?

They sometimes can produce one a day, but our chickens lately have been giving us five, which is really frustrating.

Okay, here's my next question.

Frustrating.

Phenomenal.

Frustrating.

Why is that?

I'll take them.

I have four eggs every morning, by the way.

Wow, great protein.

Yeah.

My question is

to make some money, I understand the saving money, but are you selling these eggs and could you sell these?

I have no idea what the egg market looks like for those fancy, you know, super chickens you've got that are super organic, well-fed.

Could you make enough money to help pay off debt if you kept the 30 versus, in other words, are you making enough money off of these chickens?

I don't think you're selling them, right?

Like you're not.

I was selling them and then they just stopped producing for some reason.

They're not very old because they stopped producing at a certain age or if they're just losing their feathers and stuff.

I thought you just said they're cranking out five a day.

Yeah, 30 chickens are five a day, but I go through five eggs a day.

Just for breakfast.

30 chickens are producing five eggs.

Not each chicken is five eggs.

I was thinking 150 eggs a day.

Me too, me too.

Okay, yeah, I'd probably get rid of the chickens.

I'm sorry.

Well, this is your problem with me trying to figure out this question.

I don't know.

Okay, yeah, you get rid of the chickens.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Five a day.

These are freeloading chickens.

That's right.

They're just eating really, really well.

Eating some roosters.

I know.

These chickens are high on the hog here.

You're giving them the best grain and they're collectively only pumping out five eggs a day.

I know.

Yeah.

Yeah, those are, you know what those are?

Those are welfare chickens.

Yeah.

Hey, getting the subsidies, baby.

Not a lot of production.

Sorry, dude.

Sorry, a little political reference.

The audience appreciates it.

No, you're good.

All right.

So, yeah, I think you get rid of them.

Yeah, sorry, Olivia.

But you're only saving $200.

$600.

No, no.

No, only $200 a month unless I get rid of them.

Why did I hear $600?

She'll tell you.

Yes, $600 is my pet expenses, but I can't

get a bunch of dogs.

Oh, yeah.

I don't have a bunch of dogs.

I just have old dogs.

You want to hack people off to talk to them about getting rid of their pets?

I know.

George got into that trouble on the horse.

I'm not going to touch the dogs.

No, no, no.

That's in a different category than even horses.

So, yeah.

All right.

So, yeah, that's going to to save you $200 a month.

And probably, Olivia, just some manual work, right?

Like, that probably saves you some energy, too, because you guys are working hard to get out of this debt.

But what else do you think you guys can be doing?

Like, have you guys mapped out the rest of the $43,000?

Because you guys have killed it.

I mean, going debt from 48, from you guys are at 43,000.

We're at $111,000.

Like, that's amazing.

Yeah, I actually called in and I talked to

somebody, I don't remember now I think it was Jade and and they were telling me to sell my forerunner which I owed 50,000 on and so then I sold a forerunner a boat another car and we

bought a truck and so now we have one vehicle good for I don't know how to get rid of this last 40,000 it feels like it's gonna take years oh okay

so you know exactly how you're gonna do it you're just gonna keep keep doing the debt snowball and and just taking cuts at it now you got to get some more income so how do we get more income?

Yeah, my husband's been doing some training to get raises.

He's expected to get a raise again in another month.

He just got one two months ago.

Okay, great.

So, what would those combined raises between the one he just got and the one he's going to get, how much will that add to your take-home every month?

I think it would bring another $1,200 a month.

Okay, so that's $1,200 a month.

And the chickens are gone.

You add $200 on that.

So, you got $1,400.

She got to have

a way to go.

That's $1,400

a month that you guys are going to be putting to this.

You're going to knock this thing out way faster than you think.

Let me tell you something.

This is really important

because

you are at a place, and I love that you were honest and transparent with us, that you're feeling stuck.

Like, oh, I'm mentally and emotionally, how are we going to get the remaining 43?

It's really important that you don't allow that voice to win.

And that you get focused on the fact that we just got a $1,400 a month raise, and that's $1,400 a month we can put towards this debt

additionally so what were you putting towards debt yeah and even like two and a half years olivia even at that rate and then that doesn't even include if he gets a raise in a year from now you know in a couple hundred extra bucks a month so it's just

and you guys have been in it for a while right how long have you guys been working this

we started last february but in between now and then so i just had our second child and we got married and we paid for that in cash and so i think just coming after yeah instead of just having one one and now having two, it's just a lot of reality.

Yeah.

For sure.

But let's do a real quick math, just to encourage you.

How much money, excuse me, were you all putting towards the debt snowball each month prior to these raises and our chicken straps?

$43,000.

Okay.

So

with the $1,400 that Rachel concocted there, that's $2,400 a month now.

So now divide $43,000 by $2,400 and that's your number.

Yeah.

Less than two years.

And that's the max.

I mean, that's the max it's going to take.

Less than two years.

You guys can do this.

We got it.

Yes.

Okay, we can do this.

You can, of course, you can do this.

Yes, yes.

And it's one day at a time.

It's been so long.

I know.

But your life is going to be immeasurably better just by getting rid of these chickens.

Getting about an extra chicken.

Almost like an extra three grand a month after all this is paid off that you guys are going to have.

Oh, it's going to be great.

It's great.

It is so worth it.

You guys just keep it.

It is a marathon, though.

It is a marathon.

Jade, her husband, you know, who you talk to it took them what seven and a half years but they had close to half a million yeah um but it was it was just that it is yeah it's a marathon but yeah you guys got this yeah

less than two years you can do it olivia you can do it listen you know graduate baby too you're tired thank you you're tired yeah yes baby number two and with what 30 chickens 30 chickens oh yeah that's a lot yeah how do you by the way who do you sell the chickens to who do you how does that happen do you put that out on like facebook or something i don't think you can i don't think you can sell animals oh you can no you can sell chickens on facebook she knows i don't know but

if i ever

20 a piece how much

like twenty dollars depending like i think i could probably get 20 to 30 for mine that's a pretty good deal given that these are welfare chickens and they're not producing

how do you even sell a welfare chicken that

these 30 don't lay eggs they just eat or you just say they're cute you don't say anything about production.

Just look how cute they are.

You have 30 bucks to watch a chicken bebop around my backyard?

I'm not doing it.

If you're cranking out eggs,

I'd pay a premium for that.

No, that'd be good eggs.

Wow.

I didn't, by the way, this is all very exciting to me, James.

I had no idea there was such a thing as a welfare chicken.

Didn't know.

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All right, let's go to McKenzie next, who's joining us in Little Rock, Arkansas.

McKenzie, how can we help?

Hi, guys.

Hi.

Thank you for taking my call.

Sure.

So my question is, my husband and I are currently in babysit two.

We've been really tackling our debt for the past year.

My question is, is it a bad decision for me to quit my job and become a stay-at-home mom, possibly take a pay cut for the next year?

How big of a pay cut?

I currently make about $76,056 of that is my salary and $20,000 is veterans benefits.

How much does your husband make?

He makes about $90,000.

So we would go to $90,000 for how long?

Well, it would be about $90,000 plus my $20,000 in benefits.

So I would still have that little bit of income.

And then he is potentially going to be getting a pay raise in about a year to a year and a half.

Well, I think the simple question always in this scenario is, if you go back to the $20,000 or whatever your situation is, are you guys going to be tight or are you guys going to have some margin?

I think that we would be tight.

I've tried running the numbers.

I currently hold our benefits, like health insurance and things like that.

So, that's something that we would have to switch over to him.

I think, in general, we would have a little bit of a margin, but definitely not like what we have right now.

How much debt do you guys have left, McKenzie?

We have about $75,000,

two cars, and a student loan.

Okay.

How much are the cars?

I have a loan for $17,000.

My husband has one for about $20,000.

And then he has a student loan for $30,000.

Okay.

How much are they worth, the 17 and the 20?

I haven't really checked into it.

I don't think that we're in the hole on them, but I'm not really sure what the worth would be right now.

Yeah.

And how old are the kids?

Well, I have a six-year-old who's in school, and then I have a four-year-old who will have to wait one more year from her birthday to go into kindergarten.

Okay, okay.

What are the combined car payments?

$875.

I would look at trying to sell those.

If you want to come home, one of the first things I'd be doing is how do we downsize our car situation?

Because now we gave ourselves an $860 a month raise, which would probably give you more more margin.

Gotcha.

That's at a minimum.

That's at a minimum right now.

Is there a way for you to tough it out?

Is it even possible emotionally, physically, all the things to stay with your job until you pay off the debt?

Yeah, so I mean, technically, I, you know, I actually really enjoy working.

I don't really want to go back to being at home.

But my daughter, who's in daycare, the one that has to wait another year to go to kindergarten, she is is just not thriving.

I feel like it would be better for her to be at home with me so I can meet her needs a little bit better.

Is there something specific that's really, really like special need type situation, or is she just struggling in general?

And she does well like socially and academically.

She does have some feeding issues where she's, you know, some days refusing to eat most of the day and they're trying to coerce her to eat,

you know, things like that.

Does she do that with you?

She is really picky at home as well, but I can get her to eat a little bit more because I can spend more time.

Of course.

Okay, so tell me this, Mackenzie.

Will she start kindergarten next like August or September?

Yes, so not one more year.

But next August.

Does your position, are you in a scenario where if you did come home for a year, you could go back?

I don't think I would go back into the same position that I'm in currently, but I work in a field that I could easily find another job, maybe not as high paying.

But yeah, the other thing is, you know, my husband in about a year and a year and a half will actually be getting the pay raise to the amount that I'm currently making in my position.

Okay.

Here's an idea.

And I'm by no means suggesting this is the silver bullet.

May not be a good idea.

But hearing what I just heard, if I were you, knowing that you like to work, it's good income, and it's really kind of a unique situation.

I wonder if there is an older family member or an older grandmother that's retired, that's still vibrant, that has the one-on-one ability that you have, that could build trust with your daughter.

I just wonder instead of a traditional daycare, if you didn't find somebody to be in the home with her and work through this.

And the reason I'm saying I would try that is because

let's say you do this and you come home and you're able to coax her because of the relationship and you get her where she's eating.

She's still, either this thing gets solved between now and kindergarten or you may be faced with a homeschool situation if she does the same thing at kindergarten.

I'm sure you've thought through that.

I just wonder, is that a viable idea to have somebody in the home?

You continue to work because you enjoy it, number one, number two, it's great income.

And then you've got somebody that's one-on-one with her, highly trusted, loves her, cares for her.

Is that a possibility or no?

If it was a family member, no, we don't have that possibility right now.

But I have looked into doing like a nanny in the home.

But considering the hours that we work and our commute to work and the pay,

it would be economical.

I mean, we're already paying way too much for daycare anyways.

Yeah.

So it would just.

Yeah, I wasn't talking a professional nanny.

I'm talking like an older one.

Family member.

We did this, by the way.

When Stacey was working and the kids were late elementary, maybe one in middle school.

We love her, Miss Pam.

And we looked and we looked and we talked.

We didn't put out an ad.

We just used our personal relationships and our connections and we found Miss Pam.

And Miss Pam was probably 62, but very strong and very healthy.

She was retired and she wanted to do something.

And so we had her there for X amount of hours a day doing mom helper stuff.

But in this situation, I would at least try it in this particular situation.

If it doesn't work, totally get it.

It was just an idea there.

But

what are your thoughts here,

I just, I think,

I don't know, my whole take on things is I make decisions fighting for peace.

Like, how can I have the most peace in my life?

What are things that I can do?

And that's one reason we do this show is because people don't have peace with their money.

So you're like, they don't have peace at work.

And it's like, okay, what decisions do we have to make in order to gain the most peace?

Right.

And so for you guys, Mackenzie, that's a very personal question to you and your husband.

And if there is not, if the, I just imagine as a mom, if there was something happening and one of our children, who will not be named, is the one, she doesn't struggle with like the eating stuff, McKenzie, but she's our, she's our one that we're like, she's your drama queen.

She's our, she's great.

She's awesome.

But if she was really struggling at school, like I would have, so, I would be so distracted at work.

Like it would just, it would be torturous.

It'd be terrible.

And so, so honestly, maybe you guys say, hey, it actually creates more peace for you to be home and it takes us an extra nine to 12 months to get out of debt.

That feels way more peaceful

than doing this and being miserable for a year, but yet we get out of debt and then you get to come home, but yet then she goes to kindergarten and life looks different there too.

So I don't know.

I mean,

getting out of debt frees up a lot.

And so talking to your husband, and usually sometimes the men carry a lot of the stress too when it comes to the money.

So you guys just have a really honest conversation and paint a couple of pictures too.

Like I always hate the idea of we only have one option, you know?

Like when we talk to people buying a home, like it's the only home, it's the only home that has everything we want.

We're like, no, no, you limit yourself.

So paint four different options, McKenzie.

Let Ken's option be, option A, and hey, let's see what's over here.

Option B, can you just stay home?

Yes, stay home and sell the cars.

If you stay home, the car's got to go, McKenzie.

I would mix those.

Option C: Is there a position that's part-time and she could be in daycare Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and you work Tuesday, Thursday to get out of debt six months earlier?

I don't know.

Like start doing some math, painting some pictures, and what from a gut check for you guys creates a family and an environment that you guys can hold and feel good about, right?

Um, so that's the way I'd answer that, especially with moms staying home with kids and stuff.

Now, we talked to some people, McKenzie, and you know, she makes 40, he makes 40, and they can't even pay the bills without a dual income.

And so, those people, they don't have an option, like they have to go to work to keep their lights on.

And so, if you guys have the ability for you to go home, everything can still be paid.

And then on top of that, maybe getting a little extra to get out of debt faster.

Yeah, you said something.

Mackenzie, one last thing.

Rachel just said something and triggered something in me.

I think you're absolutely right.

You were kind of wishy-washy on the question of

if you go home, is it going to be tight?

And you said, I've run the numbers kind of.

Here's my point.

You and your husband both need to run those numbers and both of you be able to look at each other and go, okay, if we do this, we know we're only going to have $200 a margin or whatever the number is.

And then if we sell the cars, it could be $1,000.

Get real clear on that because that could create relationship tension if you don't.

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This is the Ramsey Show, where America comes to have a conversation about their money, about their profession, and about their relationships.

The phone number for you to jump in on the conversation is 888-825-5225-888-825-5225.

Alongside the fabulous Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman, and we are together for you.

We started off with Cynthia in Atlanta, Georgia.

Cynthia, how can we help?

Hey, how are you?

Good.

How are you today?

Pretty good.

I'm trying to think of where to start.

Pretty much I am newly divorced.

I don't know if two years is newly.

Since then, everything has gone to poop.

I have had an eviction notice every single month.

Oh, no, Cynthia.

Since my divorce, I'm currently under eviction, and three days ago, my car was repossessed.

Oh, no.

Oh, my gosh.

Now, help me understand.

How are you getting an eviction notice every month for 24 months?

Okay, so how it works is if you don't pay rent by the 24th, then they add on the next month.

So say if I don't have it in June, say I don't get the money till June 24th.

Okay, well, now I have to pay July.

So it's like I keep getting caught behind by like basically one month.

25.

Okay.

Is it because of how your paycheck's hitting?

Well, I'm

self-employed, but it's like while you're trying to save up for something, life is still happening.

The light bill is happening.

The phone bill is happening.

Insurance is happening.

What do you do?

What do you do for yourself?

What do I do for a living?

I have an online store.

Selling

baked goods.

Sweetheart, you're not paying yourself very much because you're not making very much, I'm guessing.

Well,

I'd make last year.

I was making like

last year, it was

50.

Well, let me just tell you:

during my divorce, I'm trying to be as fast as possible.

I was the breadwinner.

So 2021, I grossed $350,000.

Selling online baked goods?

Yes.

Wow.

Okay, I'm a little surprised by that.

And then after my divorce, it just kept going down $198,000.

Why?

$100.

Part, well, I will say

we had a very expensive wedding that I footed the bill for, but before I could financially recover from

the wedding, we were being divorced.

We were only married for nine months.

No, no.

Why did your income go down?

I don't understand what your answer has to do with your business itself grossing $350.

Well,

business had slowed down, and then

by me making everything and having to keep relocating, it's just throwing off like my customer service

and the shipping.

Got you.

And so now here you are post-divorce, two years.

What are you projected to make or pay yourself this year off of this business

well

I haven't really been I've been mingling money I know I'm not supposed to because I feel like I'm not bringing in enough to separate it what do you mean by mingling with the business and your personal because I yeah yeah well forget that for a moment we're trying to help you out and I got to get to a baseline of what do you think your income is going to be because what I'm diving into here is do you need to wrap this business up and go work for somebody else?

Because you are drowning and there's not enough income.

I'm sure there's some debt and we're going to get into that, but I'm just trying to establish a baseline.

And by income, Cynthia, like being able to support yourself to pay rent.

Do you know what I mean?

I mean, like basic income.

This is an extra margin to throw at debt.

This is like paying your car payment, which didn't happen and it got repossessed, paying your rents, keeping the lights on, like basics.

How much does it take for your household to to run per month, Cynthia?

Do you know?

Without all the extra stuff, but like for real, like how much is rent, lights, utilities?

What's the baseline?

I'll say about $3,200.

$3,200, okay.

To keep everything afloat.

That's rent, lights on, gas in the car.

Or what do you do for a car?

Do they take it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you, what's your plan for that?

I'm going to try to get it back.

Okay.

But I feel like it's either pay back rent or pay for the car.

I don't know how to do both.

Well, let me tell you what helps this situation.

Working and getting paid.

And that's what I'm going to come back to.

What are you paying yourself right now per month off of this business that you run?

Like I said, I'm not separating it.

So I'm just spending.

I'm not really saying, okay, this is for the business.

This is for me.

Okay, but do you understand that?

I don't feel like I'm not making enough to do that.

How much are you making, Cynthia, per month?

How much is the business bringing in?

That's what I'm trying to get at.

Probably about

$6,000.

$6,000 a month.

Okay.

Okay.

That's not enough.

It's not enough.

So you're in a real situation right now where you've got a skill and you've got some experience.

And I don't want to spend any more time.

I don't want to belabor it.

I don't want you to feel bad about it as to why the business has dropped from a high watermark of 350 000 which is a pretty good number for a solopreneur certainly selling on like baked goods to 60 we don't we don't have time to break down why it's fallen but we are in a situation where we cannot pay rent and we cannot afford our car it's been repoed and you need to go work for somebody today tomorrow Like you've got to get some income, number one, and then I want to give it back to Rachel.

You also got to get a hold of your finances.

And this is like going to give you whiplash because it's, because we're basically saying you got to do something different than what you're doing right now.

So I don't know if you're still doing baked goods and at night you're working somewhere else or if you close everything down and you say, do you have like equipment that you could sell from the bakery that you could get some cash flow in?

No.

What does that mean?

No.

I'm shocked at that answer.

Where did all the equipment go when you were making $350?

I mean, I'm sure you had some kind of...

No, home-based.

You're just like using your stove and your oven and all that?

Yes.

Okay.

Okay.

I would make that my part-time thing.

And I'd go find something full-time because you can still sell.

You still have your website, all of that, and you're not fulfilling a ton of orders from what it sounds like.

And so I would go be doing something else during the day.

Cause I mean, this is crunch time, Cynthia.

This really is one of these things.

Like, you need to go to Target tomorrow and say, hey, can I do an hourly job?

Like, I don't care what it is.

That's right.

But to find something to be bringing this money in, because we have to get that part of this going.

There's not much expenses to cut from $3,200, right?

It's not, but anything else that you have, keep that $6,000 coming in from the business if you can.

And then on top of that, you have to go be doing something else.

How much did you owe on the car?

How much is how many back payments?

About three.

$3,000?

12 with

three payments.

Three payments, okay.

Yeah, with like $1 fees.

Yeah.

do you have anything you can sell to get two grand to take it down to them and say, hey, can I just shore this up?

No, not, no.

Okay, well,

the number one A1 priority is keep a roof over your head, keep food coming in, and you can use that from the bakery, and then everything else is going to have to come from a different income to be putting towards this repo and other debt that you have, Cynthia, I'm so sorry.

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Charlene in Salt Lake City is where we're going.

Charlene, how can we help today?

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call.

I am wondering, how do I help my husband?

We're currently in baby step number two.

We're enrolled in Ramsey Plus, taking financial peace university.

And how do I help get my husband to that gazelle level of intensity to tackle our debt?

Ah,

threaten to send him to the counsel.

I'm kidding.

No, don't do that.

That's terrible.

Okay, give me

like a range, yeah, of like you're here and this is what you're doing versus what he's doing.

What are you wanting more of?

Yeah, so um

we have about $100,000 out in debt outside of our home loan.

Um and we grossed about $135,000.

Um

I have opened up like a little hobby side business to bring in some extra money on top of my full-time job.

We also have 10-month-old twins.

So

that's kind of,

that was a new expense that really made finances tight.

And there's also a

property back taxes

because

we built a home, so the tax evaluation wasn't correct.

And then the county made an error for all property taxes, and that raised our total monthly mortgage payment by like $600 a month.

So we can take care of that.

That's fun.

Yes.

I remember that come election day.

Just me.

So let me ask you this.

what if you could wave a wand and say i wish he would do this or this

what is that

um

i wish that he would look for promotional opportunities

okay

because that would obviously bring more money anything else

yeah um

I he also,

you know, when because I've been selling items

and, you know, I mentioned selling like our miter saw, and

he, you know, had a little bit of a hard time with that.

And we also have

a truck that his mom totaled in February.

But my husband made the decision to salvage it.

And that is our third vehicle.

And so

and he's not willing to give that up.

And so it's just really hard when I'm

okay.

I got it.

Yeah, Rachel, you're

the reason I asked that question is because you said, how can I help him be more gazelle intense?

And I think you've got to, you, and I'm glad you shared it with us.

You've got to identify where those specific pain points are.

And Rachel, I'm curious as to what you're going to say about how to communicate it.

But I think that, well, I have one other quick question.

And I'm going to hand it to Rachel.

I do have another question.

Were you the one that brought the whole Ramsey thing to him?

Or did you guys come at it together?

Sure.

Oh, yeah.

I can hear it in your voice.

She did, right?

Okay, I sure did.

Now, I'm not making excuses for hubs, but I am pointing out that he doesn't have total buy-in yet, and so you're going to have to help him with the buy-in.

I think Rachel's probably going to be better at me and giving advice on that.

But as a dude, I will tell you:

tools,

salvaging the junk, I mean, that's such a dude thing.

And he's incapable

of

thinking about those the way you think about them.

But if you can get him on board with what you're doing and why, and he begins to come along, then those things.

So, in other words, it's a transaction that he's not interested in right now.

And you got to get it beyond transaction is what I'm getting at.

He's just not there yet.

Yeah, no.

I mean, yeah, I think that's the biggest obvious problem: is that you guys don't care about the same thing, right?

If you both cared about getting out of of debt, you would both put in effort.

And maybe even at that point, there's still always the nerd and the free spirit.

There's always going to be the one that's always going to be a little bit more intense that will like literally eat peanut butter for a year, you know, and the other one's like, no, we need a little bit of light.

Like, he's not fighting you on this stuff, is he?

Well, my worry is that you sold something that he

that you guys didn't talk about is what it sounded like, right?

Are you like going through and like putting stuff for sale?

And you're like, sorry, babe, but this is leaving and this is leaving.

Her stuff, I think.

No, he said a saw she said no

she said she wanted to sell the miter saw and he was like i'm sorry he was like i thought she did okay no he's like leave my stuff alone i hear you i hear you i hear you leave my junked car

yeah i've been selling things that he doesn't necessarily care about like some of our baby clothes you know gotcha i gotcha but is he on board right so is he on board with the concept of the baby steps though

I think he wants to be, he's just, he's always been a happy-go-lucky guy and then the internal optimist.

I mean, so yeah, it just so what you have to communicate to him, and it's not like I want you to sell this or do that.

It's here's where I'm coming from, and here's what I'm feeling and what I'm thinking.

It's not, you're not doing this, and you're not doing that.

Like, what's going on in you?

I, I mean, I can imagine what's going on in you is there's, there's a level of fear, or I'll just say how I would probably feel if I were in your shoes.

I have two 10-month-old twins, which is just, God bless you, girl.

I mean, unbelievable.

I'm working a full-time job.

I'm exhausted.

I'm kind of scared.

And the fact my husband doesn't share in the fear with me at all scares me even more.

And that makes me not feel cared for.

I don't feel seen.

The hard work I am putting in, he's not acknowledging.

Like it starts to just break down.

Is that right?

Would you agree?

Yeah, I mean, with the business, I kind of, so my twins are IVS twins.

And so that was expensive.

We paid for it all out of savings.

but we took a break for it, and that's when I opened up my side hobby business, right?

Yeah.

And he just has a hard time.

He's had a hard time buying into that, but a couple weeks ago, I had like a pop-up market event that I pulled in $1,400 in sales

over a weekend.

Yeah.

And so, and so he's starting to buy in a little bit more, but yeah, it's

so I think he's not going to be doing the actions until he and you guys agree from the starting place.

I agree.

That this is what we're wanting to do as a couple.

And so you'll always be frustrated until you guys can have a shared goal that this is what you guys want to do as a couple.

And that's the hardest thing.

And the way to tell him and communicate that is coming from you, of what you're feeling, what you're thinking, why you're wanting to do this, all of that.

And my hope is always, if a husband looks across the table at his wife who's scared, who's longing for something that's like, you know what I mean?

Oh, you're nailing it.

Let me ask you a quick question.

Charlene, this is he's a good husband, isn't he?

He's he's wonderful.

I had that sense.

I had that sense.

Let me ask you this.

I'm going to flip this on you.

If you went to him today and said, Hey, babe,

I'm scared about something with my health.

I've been experiencing this.

I'm feeling this, something health-related.

And you shared with him that you felt like you needed to go get some medical treatment for it.

How would he react to something like that?

Give me an answer.

He would go out all the stocks to

get me there.

And

here's why I asked the question.

That's what Rachel has just said.

What Rachel has said is absolutely right.

He doesn't, if you went to him with a health thing, he would be like, go, get the test.

We do whatever it takes.

He has to see that what you're feeling about debt and this whole debt snowball Ramsey plan, all this stuff.

This isn't some cockamame idea that you came up with that you saw on Instagram.

This is a problem

for you.

And if he hears it that way and sees it, and I think you could even go so far as saying, hey, I haven't done a good job of actually telling you why all of this is such a big deal to me.

And I need to really tell you how I feel the way Rachel laid it out.

And I think if he did that,

I think it's got a great chance knowing what we know about him and what you've said about him as a husband and how he'd react to the physical.

I think it's on you to cast a little bit more vision, a little bit more real feelings, and I I think you'll get there.

And by the way, keep selling your own stuff.

Model the way.

And at some point,

he goes, well, I probably could get rid of that car.

And in an ideal situation, too, when you guys get through all of like the heart stuff, if you can get him and you guys sit down and have numbers on the table of like, okay, here's this debt, this debt, this debt, this debt.

Here's what we make.

We could be out in 18 months or like, or if we sold this, we could be out in 16 months.

Like, start painting some scenarios for him because this whole just idea, because especially if you're a free spirit, chill person, Mr.

Optimism, the idea of like sacrificing life, so I get a debt.

It's like he's like, the glass is always full.

We'll be fine.

Yeah.

And so to show him that it's not forever because you may be painting this picture of like, oh my gosh, this is going to be, you know, our whole life.

And it's not.

It's going to be a short amount of time.

But get some numbers and some facts down so you both can see them.

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Are you doing one?

I did one yesterday, and then I'm on tomorrow.

Oh, okay.

This is great because I'm telling people about this.

It's absolutely free.

Describe it from your point of view.

Yeah, we're on together for about, I don't know, 45 minutes to an hour.

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Like if they

someone else catches it?

Oh, it's like a WWE Monday Night Raw match just to get a free t-shirt that doesn't even fit.

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clamor for a free

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There's my guilt trip.

That's all I'm going to say.

Kelsey is up in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Kelsey, how can we help?

Hi.

Okay, so a bit of a weird situation.

I bought my own house with my two kids, and I've been living there for roughly about seven years.

And I met my boyfriend.

He lives across the street in his own house.

And

now that we've been together roughly seven years, we kind of want to amalgamate.

And I just don't know what is more responsible.

Do I keep my house as like a rental?

Because the type of house we need is going to be a decent amount because I need four bedrooms and a garage.

So I don't know what the best solution is.

Like, we don't know, should we sell both houses and just get the one?

Would that be irresponsible, letting go one of the houses?

We're just not sure.

Okay, hold on.

All right, so hold on.

All right.

So I think it's fascinating you guys have been together for seven years and you've chose the word amalgamate, which I had to Google.

And I'm a real word nerd, am I not, Rachel?

There it is on the screen.

The word is amalgamate.

I couldn't spell that if my life depended on it.

And again, I'm a real.

It means you're living together, right?

No, no.

No,

it means to combine or unite to form an organization or structure.

And I'm laughing out loud,

you know, inside because I didn't want to interrupt you.

You're not going to amalgamate.

You guys need to get.

I guess that's not the word.

It's not the word.

It's called matrimony.

No, she doesn't want to get married.

They're not getting married.

I know she doesn't.

Living together.

But what I'm saying is, you ought to consider matrimony at this point.

For seven years, we've been together.

Here's why.

You do not, and Rachel can explain here why we do not like the idea of the house thing getting mixed together.

It needs to be very separate.

As long as you guys are amalgamating,

okay, and not being married, then those houses and money and everything need to stay separate.

I'm not kidding you.

James will remember this.

I feel like over the last couple of weeks, George and I got multiple calls of couples who decided to move in together and mix their finances.

And then

shockingly the amalgamation stopped and it was a mess.

So what do you do if the other person

may not want that want to get married, but they do want to move?

Why do you want to be with them, Kelsey?

Great question.

Because I really love him.

He's a really great person.

But he doesn't want to commit to you.

He doesn't love you as much as you love him.

I just think

that he's a little worried, maybe from past relationships or something.

Kelsey, how old are your kids?

My kids are 9 and 11.

Okay, okay.

Those are the ages of mine.

Yeah, and so I raised them by myself in my house.

You have a great job.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

As a single mom, I can't imagine.

He lives across the street, right?

He lives across the street.

What do we do?

Directly across the street.

What do we, okay?

I'm going to be.

Can I play older brother for 30 seconds?

They're playing house without him having to convince you.

100%.

Can I be your older brother for 30 seconds?

Okay.

Okay, great.

Thank you.

You gave me permission to be older brother.

Okay.

Why in the world would you consider moving in with a guy who doesn't want to marry you after seven years when he lives across the freaking street?

When you guys want to amalgamate, it's really quick to walk back and forth.

I don't understand.

I'm dead serious.

If you were my sister, I'd be like, what are you thinking?

Here's a guy that's had seven years to figure out if he feels safe with you emotionally.

So I don't buy his excuse, which by the way, you've swallowed whole because you're amazing and you love this guy, but his excuse of I've been burned in the past.

He's had seven years to kick the tires and you're no tire, but you get the analogy.

What are we doing here?

He lives across the street.

Why would you move?

Okay, answer that.

Because it's getting difficult on my end because I'm having a hard time now with everything going on in the world that like

inflation is crazy.

And I'm just struggling while he's kind of doing pretty well over here oh wait a second wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait this is great so you want to combine finances

but he doesn't want to marry you

help oh i know but guess what

he doesn't want to marry you you want his help but he doesn't want to help

This is weird.

This is messed up.

Rachel, please come in with a female perspective.

I've done the older brother thing.

Yeah, I mean, how do you feel about this on her behalf?

No, it's everything you're saying.

I mean, my number one is always, and I think I've gotten, I'll say this.

I think I've gotten even more conservative on my stance of this.

That, that I, first of all, like, honestly,

no, I'm just saying in the sense of

in a relationship, I just think marriage for the kids' sake, for your sake, like there is, there is a, there is something that happens to the bond of a person when you commit and say, I'm going to commit my life to you.

And I think it's good for you.

I think it's good for the world.

Like, I think that it is a good thing, Kelsey.

And for you long term, you will always, always

be in the balance of he could walk out, Kelsey, like that.

And you have built your life around a man and his money at this point.

Yeah.

And he could take that in a second.

And you have no legal obligation.

You have nothing.

Preach.

I'm going to take it off.

And then you are way more

on a bad end of the scale.

Yeah, so I get it.

Now, listen, I guess that's what it is.

No, no, you're great.

So I just think there's no protection for you, Kelsey.

And there is something about that commitment of marriage, not only from an emotional and spiritual side,

but also this financial side that we're talking about.

And you're setting yourself up for a lot of danger, not only relationally, but financially.

And you can't.

Yeah, if he's willing to marry you, if he's willing to marry you, then we go through with all this.

You sell your house.

You guys figure out which house you want to live in.

You sell his.

I don't care.

But to become one, that's a great plan.

You guys have been together for seven years.

I don't know what his problem is, but it's a problem.

He needs to commit.

And if not, by the way, you've done a great job to this point as a single mom.

Yes.

And if you still love him and you get off this call, you're like, the ken and Rachel are insane.

No, no, no.

No, I'm right.

All I'm asking you, Kelsey, is just don't commingle the finances.

Don't do it.

Don't.

Do not build your life on someone else's finances that you're not married to.

Please don't.

For your kids, for everything.

I'm just like, it's just, that is not, it's just not a smart decision.

It is not a smart decision.

And I freaking hate that, what, a little immature.

Can I say it?

Yes.

Yes.

For seven years, you get a woman with two kids.

He's a deadbeat, I'll tell you.

He's a deadbeat boyfriend.

Probably a nice guy.

But as a boyfriend, it's like, what are we waiting on?

Seven years?

Commit, man.

We got a bunch of men in this society, by the way.

This is a societal problem.

Got a bunch of men that just won't commit.

Well, I'll be honest, because they can live like they're married.

They get what they want.

Because women are not.

I mean, honestly, it's just like it's a it's she needs to lay out an ultimatum.

It's an old phrase.

Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?

This is a thing, this is not difficult.

Commit, or I'm out.

All right, it's time for our question of the day here on the Ramsey Show, brought to you by YReFi.

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All right, today's question comes from Sarah in Washington.

I have two adult children living at home.

My daughter's 21, and I've supported her while she cashflowed college full-time.

My 18-year-old son passed on college and has a great trades job.

I'm about to have a conversation with them, giving them six months' notice that I'll start charging them a small amount of rent, just a couple hundred dollars each for the principal of not living here for free forever.

How would you justify the rent to them in this conversation?

I've never planned on making them pay rent, but after listening to your show, I have changed my mind.

But I'm struggling to find the right words for this conversation.

Oh, man.

Well, I'm not the guy you want to ask that question to because for the 21-year-old, it's like you're out.

I know.

That's what I I was going to say.

God bless you.

I'd love for you to come by all the time.

I'm going to keep stock in the fridge.

You visiting him is great.

You living here is not.

Yep.

But now I don't know if that's too hardcore.

And we'll see where it comes to.

But I mean, my son, both my boys know, like,

this is not,

you're not living here forever.

Yeah.

No, I know.

So the, yeah, the, the adult children coming back and living at home.

for like a span of time and for a reason, I understand, right?

Like I'm living at home while I'm going through college.

A season.

That makes sense.

Or, um, you know, you, you graduate college and you come home and the, you know, they move in with you, Ken, for three months while they find an apartment and they get a job or all the, like, right?

Like, there's sense of it.

That's fine.

But this ongoing, never-ending business, I'm not a fan of.

And that's what it will become, by the way, when you're the cheapest landlord in the history of landlords.

And that's what this is.

That's right.

What kid's going to want to move on from a couple hundred bucks a month in rent?

Totally, I know, I know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's, yeah, I mean, I would have the conversation in six months.

I mean, if the son has a great job, even though he's 18, you get to learn to be an adult.

I mean, I don't know.

I, that's what I would do.

So, yeah, very nice.

Of course, we, you know, it's going to be very interesting.

You never know.

I've got a college freshman.

He's just finished.

So he'll be starting a sophomore year.

And it's like, it's going to be very interesting to see how all of this shakes out.

For him, you mean?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like after that.

You got three kids.

I got three kids.

Yeah.

Like, what is there?

Like, am I going to have to have the conversation?

Oh, right.

Hey, you know, or is it like, I was the kid that I was gone.

Yeah.

Didn't want to go back.

No.

You know.

Yes.

We didn't have cell phones.

This is going to date me, and this is going to shock you.

When I was in college, we didn't have cell phones.

Yeah.

Didn't exist.

I believe it.

Yeah.

Thank you.

We had a dorm phone.

Yeah.

And so I remember getting a knock on my door one night.

And I opened the door.

Did you like that sound effect?

I was going to say you like that.

I thought that was pretty good.

And my buddy opens the, I opened the door.

My buddy's there.

We went to the same high school, but he lived down the hall.

And he said, hey, my mom just called me.

Or I just talked to my mom and she said that your mom called her and wanted me to tell you you need to call home.

I was that kid.

I mean, there was no ugliness or anything.

I just, once I went to college, I was like done.

Gone.

Yeah.

And not every kid's that way.

Sure, sure.

You know, but I was like, hello, world.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

So we'll see how it plays out.

Natalie's up in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Natalie, how can we help?

Hi, thank you for taking my call.

Sure, sure, sure.

What's up?

So

my husband and I are on baby steps two.

We've been doing really well.

We've paid off $7,000 this year.

Nice.

He just recently got a new job that is, he's making twice as much, but it came with some expenses that we knew of, but it's been more expensive than we were planning.

So

he travels and he works on

wind turbines.

So as he travels, we have to pay for his hotel and his law or his lodging and his food.

And it's turning out to be a thousand or more per week.

And he's getting he gets an amount, like he gets $175 a day, which is like $850 a week, but it's more than it's costing more than what he's getting to pay for it.

And it's getting like I'm putting,

you're not going to like this, but we're putting it on the hotels and stuff have been on a credit card because we just didn't have, we didn't have the money to pay for the hotels to start with.

And so I've been putting like a thousand dollars on the credit card every month, and it's just growing.

It hasn't, like, it'll go down and then it's right back up to either the same thing it was before or a little bit more.

And I'm just lost.

What kind of hotel is he staying at?

Well, it kind of depends.

So right now he's actually in Abilene, Texas, and he did find a cheaper one.

He's at a Super 8 right now.

And that was super cheap.

This is like the cheapest one he's been at.

And it's actually below $175.

And then before he was in Copel, Texas, and they were like right at that $175 a night.

Well, you're not going to like this, but the first thing that pops in my mind, Rachel, is I go back to my days working in Virginia politics.

I was young, single, 21, driving all over the state, and I lived out of hotels.

And I had a budget that the campaign gave me, and I stayed in some like, you know, stuff that I wouldn't even let Stacy look at.

But I was a dude, I'm 21, right?

And it was like I had the budget.

And I know that's an extreme situation.

However, you know, you gave me one locale and the Super 8 is actually below budget.

Then you gave me another locale and you said it was right at the budget.

But in this case,

he's got what he's got.

And so he's going to have to,

how How shall I say this?

If he's going to stay in this job, he's going to have to suck it up and he's going to have to play within the rules.

And I think right now it's just not been convenient, and you guys are paying for it.

In other words, you said it was a locale named Coburn or something.

I didn't make it out.

Go somewhere else.

Go 20 minutes away where there's a motel six where the light's not even on, but he's crashing.

He's working.

Like, it is what it is.

And it doesn't make sense because you guys, at this rate, it's like $52,000 a year in expenses.

How How much is he making?

So he brings in like

about $6,800 a month.

I mean, you're not, y'all aren't making a ton then.

After these expenses, it's like $2,400.

It's like $20,000 that he's making.

And how much is it making?

This makes no sense.

He gets how much a month in expenses?

Eight something?

So it's about half of his paycheck.

So if he makes $6,800,

$3,400 $3,400 of that is the per diem that's supposed to go towards his hotels.

And he's spending more than that.

And I do know that it's also, it's not just the hotels because of course he's got to eat.

And so part of that is also like, he'll eat out.

Like he doesn't have, like, he's in a hotel room.

And so it's not like, he doesn't grab, sometimes he'll grab like microwavable stuff that's super cheap.

And then sometimes he'll go to Chick-fil-A and spend $20.

And it's just like, there's a lot of things.

Here's my point.

Here's the, this is the job he has, and this is the compensation.

You knew this going in.

No surprises.

And now he's got to manage it.

So you have two options.

Option A is when he goes to these little towns, he doesn't go to Chick-fil-A and pay 20 bucks.

He goes to the local grocery store.

And if he's in this little place, he gets enough food for three days.

And it's PB ⁇ J and tuna fish sandwich and turkey sandwiches.

I mean, this can be done.

And so it's not a function of can it be done.

I hope you weren't calling to go,

How can it be done?

Because it can be done, or you change jobs, those are your options.

But Rachel's right, this job doesn't make sense in its current form.

So, either he goes, you know what, this is my job, and when I'm on the road, life sucks, makes me really happy to get home.

But my wife and I are gonna agree to overcome.

Yeah, how many nights away is he a week?

Um, so he's six weeks on and a week off.

So, he's gone for six weeks.

Yeah, so me and our two-year-old, we're at home.

How is that?

Is that sustainable for you guys, Natalie, just from a lifestyle perspective?

Six weeks away.

Currently, it's weird because he's at like a tooling department.

He's not actually at a wind turbine.

So it's weird timing.

But once he goes on an actual job, we'll know like he'll be there for three weeks.

So me and my two-year-old, I work from home.

So when he gets set somewhere for like three weeks i will go and be with him no then that's more expenses of you guys eating out more and everything

well and but i we've already done this once and like i made all the food in the hotel room like we brought a griddle and we bought the hot pot and it worked out well if that works great but again a or b

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This is the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their profession, and their relationships.

So glad you've joined us.

The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225.

Triple 8-825-5225.

Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman, and we're here to coach you up.

Joe is up in Columbia, South Carolina.

Joe, how can we help today?

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

You bet.

About 20 years ago, I read Dave's Total Money Makeover, and we got out of debt.

Then we started investing in the stock market and timberland here in South Carolina.

And things went really well, and we ended up in pretty good shape.

My daughter and her husband got married about that same time.

We gave them $20,000 for

down payment on their first home.

And then we bought 120 acres and we built a house here.

And they decided they wanted to join us.

And so we gave them two acres of land.

Then about two years later, we gave them another $20,000 to help pay down their mortgage.

Then, over the years, they had 11 children.

11.

11.

So,

they had an old beat-up van, and

we wanted to be able to take trips.

So, about

three years ago, I think we bought them

a brand new

Transit 14-passenger van.

Well, I'll get to the point.

The oldest child, our grandson,

is 19, and he just got married, and his wife is 17 and a half.

And

our daughter and her husband wanted us to give them land to build a house on.

And we said,

you know what?

That's a little young.

Owning land is a big responsibility.

Let's wait a couple years.

Well, that didn't suit.

They want to be in control of when and

where they give the children land.

Our rule of thumb was when we think they're old enough and responsible enough.

Yeah, because you don't want them to build a home, and then in four years, when they're 24,

they're like, oh, we want to move out of state.

And then you're stuck with this other house.

Yeah, well,

they're pretty upset and they even as we speak they're moving your daughter your daughter

yeah the whole family so where are they moving to neighbors

that we don't know right in the middle of our property

and

they're they're moving away they're not going far only 11 miles but they are moving and they want to be in control

and we created this monster you know

by giving and giving and giving.

No, I don't think that's true.

No, Joe, Joe, I don't think that's true.

I don't think that's true.

I think they could have had that exact same situation and said, Mom and Dad, you guys have been insane to us.

We don't expect anything, and everything you've given us is beyond anything.

And then they have their little chickens and they deal with it.

Like

the expectation ends and the entitlement end is not because you were generous to them.

It's because their character turns sour in the midst of it.

Okay, so that's not, I don't think that's your fault, genuinely, unless they couldn't have handled it in the first place and y'all kept giving it to them because they had expectation.

But if they were, you know, kids that were very grateful in it and didn't have any expectation, all of this would have been a blessing.

It would have been great, and they would have honored you and honored your requests.

So I don't know.

Joe, that was a great setup.

What's your question for us?

I'm curious.

Well,

you know, we're thinking we gave too much.

We're thinking I heard what Rachel just said, but we're thinking we gave too much.

And

I'm 74,

and we're really wondering what to do with inheritance.

How much are we talking about?

How much are we talking about?

Well,

we live off of the interest on our investments, but the principles which should stay there is around $4 million.

Okay.

Let me ask you this really quick because we've got a limited amount of time and I want to help you.

Is your wife on board?

Is she feeling the same thing that you're feeling?

Are you two in alignment?

Oh, yeah.

Great.

Absolutely.

Great news.

Okay.

So I appreciate it.

Properties in both of our names, so

you know.

Okay, the reason I asked that is I wanted to make sure that you weren't dealing with some of that because what you've got is your daughter is playing a little bit of poker with you.

I think it's bad poker, but I think it's poker.

And I think you're irritated by the fact that they're pulling up stakes and now the land that you gave them, someone else is going to live there.

And I get how that rankles you.

But

I do agree with you that

this particular decision has gone too far.

I don't think we need to spend any more time arguing or siding with you as to whether or not it was your fault or not.

I think we've got to focus on where we are right now.

And so what I would tell you is I was listening to you tell a story and I was just trying not to laugh out loud because the fact that your daughter thinks that she can tell you anything to do with your property is hilarious to me.

And I think you got to hold your, your, your, your position here.

And, and in this situation, if they want to move, they move.

I think she's playing a little bit of poker.

And I think the best thing you can do is let them go, even if it's 11 miles.

Okay, good.

So here's the deal.

As far as

what you want to do with your retirement and your inheritance, you and your wife need to sit down.

And I appreciate you calling us.

That's not our call.

My only answer, and I'll give it to Rachel in a second.

My only answer would be, you all do with that money what you feel you should do with that money.

It should not be about guilt and the fact that she's your only daughter or only child, sounds like, and we got to do this.

If you feel like it's going to be abused and misused, you get to decide what to do with that, but you're going to have to live with that.

And you got to have to understand that once you're gone, that they're going to to have to live with your decision.

So you and your wife need to get on the same page together and let's not let outside forces dictate too much.

Do what you think is right.

Rachel?

I'm curious, Joe, do you guys have any level of relationship with her now?

Or was it?

Yeah, well, it's not just her.

The husband is very active in the decision-making.

Of course.

And we're still on speaking terms.

And

as a matter of fact, we're going to counsel and try to work this out.

Great.

That's good.

I'm so glad.

You know, I just.

Well, you feel like

you gave

a big inheritance.

Yeah.

I mean, when they got a big inheritance coming, they don't, you know,

I don't want the prospect of the money to hurt them any more than what we've already seen.

Are they responsible financially just with their daily finances?

Yes.

Okay.

Well, to Rachel's point, Rachel makes a good point.

Rachel's right.

You didn't spoil her to the point that they're just a train wreck with their finances.

It seems like they just, it's just your generosity has become something they're very comfortable with.

And so now they're acting out, sounds like.

I don't think you and mom have done a bad job at all.

And I don't think you need to be worried about them squandering it.

But I think you could get creative with how you do it.

Yeah.

And the fact that money's created a tension point too is not, that's not great.

So how do we remove that element and heal the relationship to go forward?

And maybe it's a thing that like we're not going to mingle money as much anymore, right?

And put the money there.

So I'm so sorry, Joe.

I hate that your generosity feels taken advantage of in a sense

from what you told us.

So I'm so sorry.

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Matthew is up in St.

Louis, Missouri.

Matthew, how can we help?

Hey, so

basically, my question is:

how do I

continue to support my family and I while also trying to get my real estate wholesale and business up and going?

Well, I think it's the wrong question.

Okay.

So I think the question should be, how do I support my family?

And let's answer that.

And then when we get to a place where we've got a really clear answer on how to support my family, then the second question becomes, how can I now ease into a separate venture

of real estate?

And I'm not trying to be cute in any way, but I really do think that that's the mindset.

And my guess is, you'll understand that if we get a little information from you.

So, when you set it up that way, what is your

current plan for making a living?

Real estate wholesaling.

Right.

And how much are you making?

Well, we are closing on our first deal

next Wednesday.

It's going to be $4,250 that we received.

And I mean, it was all, you know, just paper pushing, getting a property under contract, and then selling my position in that contract.

So your wholesale money into it.

Yes, yes.

Interesting.

Okay.

How much were you making prior to this and what were you doing in that job?

So

4,001 check is a major jump for us.

I've never made that much money off of one thing in my entire life.

Okay, well, you didn't answer my question.

How much did you make a year in your last job and what were you doing?

I was a warehouse worker making minimum wage, and I made

like $13 an hour.

Okay.

Okay.

That helps me.

And so give paint the picture for Rachel and I.

What's the transition from warehouse worker to this wholesale?

Did you quit your warehouse job?

Yes.

How long ago?

The beginning of June.

Beginning of June.

Okay.

And give us an idea.

Do you own a home?

What's your mortgage?

Are you renting?

And what is your rent?

We stay with family.

We just,

you know, we pay for, you know, our portion of the lights and gas and stuff.

Well, what do we mean by family?

Your parents, her parents?

Her parents.

My parents have an apartment downstairs.

Oh, there she is.

And it's kind of like a sorry.

Hi, I'm Heather.

My parents have an apartment downstairs that we kind of rent out, but we pretty much are just paying our part of the utilities.

All right, and do we have kids?

We have one son.

And how old?

Eight months.

Okay, and and Heather, do you work?

I don't.

Oh, we lost her.

I don't.

Is that right?

Right.

Okay.

You're home, home with the baby.

Okay.

Yes.

I do work with him on the business as much as I can.

Okay.

Having an eight-month old is hard.

Yeah, do you guys have do you guys have any debt?

We have a car payment.

It's $356 a month.

How much do you owe on the car total?

Six.

$6,000?

Okay.

Okay.

How long before the next deal?

I understand you're going to make $4,000 some dollars in a week or so.

When is the next check coming?

So

I go and look at a property tomorrow.

Currently, I'm hitting the streets every single day, putting sticky notes out on doors, calling leads.

i've got a couple promising leads that i've got to follow up on we also have other houses under contract that are waiting for buyers correct

so um

it's just a matter of finding a buyer and then closing on the deal yeah yeah my only fear with this whole the wholesale process

it can work if you have a big pipeline but starting it is tough and so i just don't i i get nervous that when there's not a pipeline you're gonna going to either get desperate in a situation and make a bad call on one of the properties or something without having something else supporting you guys, at least having some money come in.

The good thing is, your expenses month to month do not sound like a lot.

I mean, the fact that you guys don't have rent to pay,

but it does make me a little nervous that you guys made this big jump.

But yet, you're in a position, thankfully, that from a lifestyle perspective, you have a soft landing, if you will.

But here's what I would have preferred: I would have preferred that you saved up before you left the warehouse job.

I would have preferred that you saved up minimum six months of your income and put it in the bank.

I would have really liked 12 months before you go all in on a real estate thing.

I've had people call in and ask this question before they want to be a real estate professional.

And that to go to win as a real estate agent, you've got to be all in.

Yeah, I'm curious, Matthew, what caused you to do the wholesale route?

Well,

currently, we're both in college.

We're going for BSBAs.

I'm going for a major in entrepreneurship and corporate innovation.

To do what?

How old are you guys?

28.

Okay.

I'd stop college right now.

Let me tell you why.

You need to be taking all those hours that you're spending on college, and I'm talking to you, Matthew, and you need to be working in the warehouse or even a better job, making $20 an hour.

I don't care what you're doing, but for this season, like Rachel says, until you get that pipeline built up, I would press pause on college.

That particular degree,

that's not going to do much for you, to be completely honest.

I'm not poo-pooing it.

I'm just saying that can press pause.

We can go back to that.

You got too many balls up in the air right now.

You're living with family.

You got a little kid.

You're trying a whole new business.

It's all on you.

It's door-to-door, hustle, hustle, hustle.

You have never made any money to speak of.

And I just think there's too much going on.

So I would, if I were you and I had a wife and child, I'd want to get them out of my in-law's house.

I'd want to go live on my own.

And I'd want to have a day job

and then work on this dream job as you can.

But you don't have time for this new business idea and college, I don't think.

Am I being too harsh, Rachel?

No, I don't think you're too harsh.

I mean, I, yeah, I mean,

the issue with what you're doing real estate-wise is, again, you have to have a lot of contacts.

I mean, because the wholesale, it's a flip-flop.

You could go 90 to 120 days with no income, Matthew.

Yeah, you understand what we're saying?

That's what makes me nervous.

I don't like that.

The thing about the pipeline is,

so the city that I live in,

I'm actually two and a half hours south of St.

Louis.

It's just the closest major city.

But my city has a registered landlords list.

I've went through the entire list.

I've contacted every single person.

I have a very extensive buyers list that I actually.

Yeah, I mean, you could keep hustling it for sure.

Right, I'd have a backup plan.

But I would just have that backup plan to make sure you have some income coming in

in case, you know, something dries up.

In the real estate market, it is kind of up and down, you know, a little fickle.

But

yeah, I just like a safety net of

knowing that there's a paycheck coming in.

And it may not be the dream job, but at least we have that until this other venture really starts picking up.

So that's what I would do.

I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, bankrupt with a toddler and a brand new baby at home, scared, doesn't even begin to cover it, but I got mad enough to change.

I started using God's and grandma's ways of handling money.

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Michael's up next in Seattle, Washington.

Michael, how can we help today?

Hi.

Hi.

Thank you so much for having me on the show.

Sure.

So, my question is:

my grandparents are reaching the last stage of their life, and

they're getting their affairs in order, the will, and everything like that.

And they want to leave the house to both my cousin and I.

I

don't want to live in the house, but my cousin does.

I'm wondering if they leave the house to me in my name, but my cousin lives in it, how will that affect me?

I just, I don't want to set myself up for a bad scenario.

Yeah, because if he doesn't pay taxes or something, it all goes back to you.

I mean, you would be responsible for everything that he does.

So I wouldn't do that.

I'd have him buy you out.

Are you both going to be on the deed?

Are they putting both of you?

So

that's the other thing is my cousin, she's diabetic and she might need like state assistance with her medication and everything like that.

So they want to leave the house just to me.

But my cousin wants to live in it.

Well, then she just needs to buy it from you.

Yeah, well,

she's currently 17.

Oh, well.

I don't know if she's going to have the money for that.

No, no, she won't.

Well, then why don't you just take the house and sell it?

You don't want to live in it, so take it from them and then sell it.

Because the 17-year-old thinks she wants to live in it.

So it's a conversation with her, Michael.

So here's the deal.

I would not base a major asset.

on a 17-year-old's thinking that they want to live here because she's going to go off to college and,

you know, meet some, I don't know, whatever, live her life.

And you have waited four or five years for her to come back to buy this house down the road.

And well, here's what I'm confused about.

The way you set it up, Michael, you told us that the grandparents want to leave it to both of you.

But now what you've told us is they're actually going to put it in your name.

So the reason I'm bringing that up is: have they promised her that she gets to live in it?

So she told them that she wants to live in it.

They haven't really made like an exact, I guess, a promise, but we both wanted to keep the house in the family because I guess it's just nostalgia.

I know it's a bad reason, but

necessarily.

Nostalgia is not a bad reason as long as you manage it well.

So that's what I'm trying to understand here: is what are the expectations?

Because the way you let out it was they want to leave the house to us.

And so I'm getting a strong feeling that she's expecting to live in this because of the way it's been communicated to both of you from the grandparents.

Is that true?

Yeah.

All right, now we got it.

Okay, the reason I'm bringing that up because, Rachel, that gets to a much stickier situation now.

Is the house paid for, Michael?

The house is fully paid for, yes.

Oh, so the only thing you would have to take care of is upkeep and utilities.

Yes, and I discussed this with my cousin that I wouldn't have an issue with

her living here as long as she was able to keep up on the property.

It's about an acre and

it's a three-story house, though.

It's a lot of cleaning and a lot of maintenance.

And I don't think she understands really the upkeep cost of an older house like this.

So then that's on you.

She's seven.

It would be on me.

How old are you?

Yeah.

21.

All right.

Both of your frontal lobes aren't even done developing.

And I'm not saying that in an unkind way, but you're going to have to over-explain this to a 17-year-old.

No,

that's like, that's a curse.

Like, you do not need to, no, a 17-year-old, even when she's.

Oh, I'm with you.

Yeah.

But I'm just telling him, I'm addressing what he just said.

We have a communication problem.

She doesn't get what it's going to take to take care of a three-story, one-acre deal.

You mentioned the fact that she's got diabetes.

You didn't do that just to throw it out there.

That means she's got some health complications with that.

So that adds to this deal.

So her being 17, physical issues, I'm with Rachel.

This is a no-go, and you're going to have to break her heart.

And you're going to maybe have to sit down with grandma and grandpa and help have them help because it's unfair for you to to hold all this weight and responsibility and holding out on something for a 17 year old to make a decision later where are your where are your parents and all of this

or where are her parents yes and yours

um my parents i guess they don't really know much about this scenario they're separated and they live very far away from each other um

and her parents They don't want the house.

They think it's too much house and they have no issue with her having the house, but I don't think they understand all the responsibility that goes into managing this much property either now you got some checked out parents on both sides so rachel's right yeah i think this is a curse so rachel how do you handle this you sit down put yourself in his position you're gonna go talk to the grandparents what are you saying

if i mean it's i feel like it sounds heartless but honestly i mean once they pass if they leave you this asset michael And I would want to be very clear of what their expectations are for her, because if they want her to be part owner, but they're not putting her on the deed for some reason, then in good faith, you would sell the home, you would split the proceeds 50-50, and you both get a great inheritance out of it.

And you go live your lives and you go buy a house that you want to buy later in life.

But if you, but if, if the deed is in your name and she then is going to somehow live there, that's not good for her later because she's not building equity in anything.

And then also it's a risk on your end because your name's on the deed.

And if she doesn't pay taxes and upkeep, like what you're saying, then you get a demolished property, you know, four years later or whatever.

It just nothing really ends up well unless, Michael, you said, my grandparents are giving me their house.

I love their house.

I love this house.

It's where I've wanted to live and raise my kids forever and ever.

And it's great.

Your name's on the deed.

You get the house and everything's great.

But it's this entanglement of another person

who's not even of age.

to go buy cigarettes.

You know what I mean?

I'm like, she's not even 18.

I love your name.

And it's unfair for her too, Michael, because life changes.

And for her to feel then this responsibility of having to go back to Seattle if she goes off somewhere for school because her cousin has the grandparents who passed home and she said she was going to, I don't know, it just gets

messy.

I'm actually not sure.

So the house isn't actually in Seattle.

It's in a small town in eastern Washington.

And it's probably worth about $400,000, maybe $350,000.

Okay, let's play Rachel's idea out.

Okay.

Don't you think you could sell the vision to grandparents and to your cousin?

Let's say it's worth 400 and Rachel's good faith idea I thought was great.

200 to you, 200 to her, and we go our separate ways.

What a wonderful

and what a wonderful heritage that is for both of you young people.

How does that sit with you?

Well,

I think deep down I know that is the right decision to make because I don't know that she'd be able to keep up with all this property.

And I know that I really do love this house and I love this property and I have a lot of great memories here, but I just don't want to live in this town.

I get it.

At the end of the day, it's great.

I feel the same way about my grandparents' house.

I mean, I 100%.

So go take a bunch of pictures of it, do some video,

make some memories, put it in a box, sell the house, man.

Yeah.

I think that'd be the right choice.

I do think

I've heard of that.

Well, she doesn't have much to say because her name's not on the deed of the home.

Yeah, this is you.

Yeah.

This is you and mama.

You want to be gentle with her for sure.

Whatever their names are.

Everybody's got different names.

Mamma and Pat Ball.

I'm struggling there.

I don't know why I got off on those vows like I did.

Because also, Michael, yes, and I not only is the upkeep and everything for her, but her being handcuffed to a property,

I don't like that for her.

She needs to go and

Michael, you've told us twice in this call she can't handle it.

She can't handle it.

I'm not certain that she can't handle it.

And I know that she'll also be older when, I mean, they're not knocking on death's door or anything.

I thought you just said at the beginning of this that they're about to die.

Oh, they're not like about

that.

I'm sorry, that wasn't.

I wasn't like that morbid.

It wasn't quite.

Rachel's burying them right now.

Oh, my God.

We're vibrant.

They walk three miles every day.

No, they're.

God bless them.

They're fine.

Here's the deal.

My grandpa probably has a year and a half, and my grandma doesn't have anything.

We got time.

There's nothing on fire, then.

Let some stuff play out.

Time will tell as well.

She may turn 18, 19, and she may fall in love.

I don't know.

Time will tell.

Michael, I think you're waffling here.

I don't like it.

You know what you should do.

You got to go talk to Mamma and Patrick.

And nothing has to be stressed right now to your point.

Like,

I don't know.

Yeah.

God bless the grandparents.

They're doing well, Rachel.

I'm so sorry.

These are tough.

These are tough.

I know.

Sometimes you get in these casual moments and you kind of forget that you're like,

well, he did say, I did get the impression they might be.

He started the call, made it feel like.

Yeah.

Well, he did say his grandfather's got a year and a half.

So, I mean, that's not

later in the call, though, Ken.

No, I know.

I'm saying to your point, I'm bailing you out.

Okay, thank you.

I can see how you got there.

You've got a big heart.

You love old people.

Nobody questions that.

Our scripture of the day comes from Ecclesiastes 5, verse 5.

It is better that you should not vow than that you should vow and not pay.

And our quote from Sam Ewing, inflation is when you pay $15

for the $10 haircut you used to get for $5

when you had hair.

So there you go.

There's a little mental gymnastics there.

Felt like we should have saved that one for when Dave was here.

I, on the other hand, got quite the frock up here, or as the kids call it, lettuce.

Have you heard that?

What?

No.

So I play pickleball every Wednesday night, and there's a bunch of 20-something guys in this, and I wear a headband.

Yeah, you do.

For functionality.

I love it.

Because this stuff right here gets wet and floppy and gets in my eyes.

And so I'll walk out and they're always seeing stuff like, oh, look at the lettuce.

On that guy.

Yeah.

I know.

I kind of like it.

It's all this Gen Z verb.

I know.

I'm trying my best.

I can't keep up with it.

I can't either.

I ask my kids to do something.

They'll go, bet.

Have you heard that one?

No.

Yeah.

Like, hey, son, can you do this?

Bet.

I guess that means yes.

I guess that's good.

I'm always guessing that i don't i said chugi the other day in a meeting don't even know what that means and all the gen z girls were like that's out and i was like wait a second let's pause for just a second what is i learned this word and apparently it's donezo it's like um

something that used to be cool like

10 15 years ago and it's not anymore so it's like fashion or something and you see someone you're like yeah it's kind of chugi like and so you used and then i used it thinking i was like part of the girls they all looked and i'm like yeah and apparently chugi is Chugi.

Yeah,

that's it.

I'm catching on, James.

I still got a little bit left

in the dad brain.

All right.

Chad is up in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Chad, how can we help?

Hey, guys, thanks for taking the call.

Sure.

So I have a debt question for you guys.

My wife and I have about $180,000 in debt right now, and we are trying to figure out the best approach and what to tackle first in order to get this paid down as soon as possible.

What's the 180?

It is about 110 in student loans.

My wife has a master's in OT so about 100 is from that and then

10 is mine from a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering.

And then

there's about 55 in medical debt and personal loans that we are very fortunate

a relative to be able to pay for that rather than us having to go through a bank.

A few years back, my wife was diagnosed with brain cancer.

So we had

asked some, well, not ask, but we were fortunate for them to offer to pay for that so we didn't have to go through the bank.

So that's interest-free, which is very nice.

Is that the 55 you're talking about?

Yep, yep, that's the 55.

Okay.

And then the rest of it, 14, is in a car payment.

Okay.

How's she doing?

She's good.

Remission as of

almost two years now.

Yeah, we were very fortunate.

Gosh, thank gosh.

Oh,

is she,

what's she making in her job?

She's an occupational therapist.

She makes about $85K.

Okay, and what do you make?

About $125

OTE.

50 of it is bonus.

Okay.

Wow, that's great.

Great salary, so we can do some damage here.

For sure.

Yeah.

I mean, the way we talk about getting out of debt is just smallest debt to largest debt.

And so for you guys, the car will be the first thing you'll tackle.

And it's regardless of interest rates.

And so even though the 55 is interest-free and interest is starting to kick in on the student loans, I know soon.

But I would still keep that in the middle.

So I would just, yep, I would pay off the car.

How much margin do you guys have a month if you were to do a really, really, really strict budget and lived on nothing.

If we do a really strict budget right now, the way that I have it broken down is without the bonuses, we're planning on throwing every single dollar of that that comes in over the next few years into it.

So, without that,

we bring in about 8,200.

I'm putting 15% into my 401k.

I would assume that you guys would probably say to that.

Pause that.

Yep, pause that.

Okay, so we'll back that off.

Total after-tax is about $8,200 a month.

After all of our expenses,

we're currently paying $500 to the relative, $500 to the car, and then

after that, we've got about $3,400.

Okay, how much would be in that retirement if you were to plug that back in?

If that was back in your paycheck, how much extra would that be a month?

I think it's around $50,000, something like that.

How much you broke up?

About $450,000.

$4.50.

Okay, that's amazing.

So you guys will have close to $4,000

per month to throw at this debt.

And that's not including they're putting $500 towards the medical debt to family.

So if you were to do it the way we teach, which is everything goes at the car,

now you're actually...

$214,000 in savings.

Oh.

Hello.

Tell me what we'd do with that.

Well, what would we do?

Can we pay that off?

So we take $13,000 out of that because we teach the baby steps.

Are you familiar with baby step one, which is $1,000 in savings for an emergency?

It's going to scare you all to death.

This is.

But if you've got 14, here's how we teach it.

You take $13,000 tonight, okay?

And you pay off, you pay that towards the car,

and that's going to leave you with $1,000 left on the car.

And then the next month, you're not going to pay the family $500,000.

You're going to take...

Go and ask, because we do say pay minimum payments on everything.

But since it's just the family, I don't know if if that's I don't know if that $500 is covering their

minimum payments.

Was it their cash or did they take a loan in their name?

No, it was their cash.

Okay.

They were able to stack up some money throughout their loan.

Okay, well, if you pay a good spot to help.

Gotcha.

Gotcha.

Well, yeah, I mean, you'll pay off the car, you guys.

I mean,

in the next month, the car's gone.

Yeah, for sure.

So that's done.

And then be working out towards that medical debt.

And then, I mean, within, you know, 12 months or so, you got 14 months.

You'll have that paid off,

which is incredible.

And then another probably two years on that student loan.

And I would, do you guys have kids?

No, but that's something that we're wanting to get our finances in order here before that.

Okay.

You know, we definitely do.

We definitely want to buy a house and everything.

But you know, well, don't wait on kids for this.

If you guys want kids, go ahead and have kids.

People have kids all the time while they do baby step two.

Or, yeah.

Oh, my wife will love to hear that.

Yeah.

I mean, people, George Campbell, I always laugh because he's always the one.

George is always like, I mean, it's just really nice when you don't have any debt.

No kidding.

And I'm like, but also,

you look, you look 10 years down the road, you're like, I wish we had started early.

You know,

George doesn't even buy himself anything nice.

I know, I know.

It's very cheap.

So people have other opinions, but I would always say.

Get married, have kids, live your life, and then bring your money journey along with that.

So I'll throw that out there, but you guys decide that.

But yeah, I mean, I would make it a goal, Chad.

It'd be really aggressive.

But in three years, see if you guys can pay this off.

And if I'm asking if you guys have kids, because you don't right now, so I would be working both of you overtime because you could take this three years down to easily two and a half, two years and three months.

I mean, I mean, and then maybe you get a raise too in the midst of all of this.

I mean, you could really be aggressive on this.

What's the car payment?

Car payment's 370, but we're paying, we've been paying 500 on it.

I know, but I'm getting, my point is, is you're getting a raise on that too.

So you're just going to roll it out.

Oh, that's true.

Yeah.

So I'm just telling you, you've got well over $4,000.

You've got a bit over $4,000 of discretionary income, which is not, there's no discretion.

It's all going towards the debt.

But man, that's a really good sledgehammer.

And you guys are going to see tremendous momentum.

I'm going to tell you what.

When you see that medical debt dip below $20,000, I just got a sense.

And I'm making the $20,000 up arbitrarily, but somewhere in there, you guys, because Rachel and I've done enough debt-free screens, somewhere after you've paid the car off and you've made a pretty big chunk on that personal loan on medical given the the the circumstances around that it was scary you wanted out you're gonna feel great you guys are gonna get to experience some severe momentum it's a fun thing yeah but get that momentum started chad with honestly paying off this car in the next month and i know it's scary going down to a thousand dollars and if something happens in the middle of it if you guys get pregnant you guys can cash flow any emergency that's that's right you guys have a great income and so do it because you guys need a little spark in all of this.

Like, if you guys are starting this off, this is like a boom.

Like, the fact that you have a paid-off car in the driveway next month-that's crazy.

That's crazy.

So, I would

move some money around.

I bet you could pay this car off tonight, couldn't you?

Definitely, yeah.

I'd pay it off tonight.

Surprise the wife.

Don't surprise me.

No, no, say, babe, I paid the car off.

No, tell her.

Let's pay the car.

That's a fun surprise.

She may kill him.

I don't know.

Well, carry it off.

Do it, Chad.

Do it.

Mama, Papa, my corporate unrimmo alarm, and the rope that I comprehend me that very peasant, very promptly.

But

no tenement for the mode with the vacos of the classes of Amazon.

Amazon dastamenos are.