Big Debt Requires Bigger Discipline

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, George Camill, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of the George Camill Show, and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour.

He does a lot.

He's also co-hosting for me today.

Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

Amy is in San Francisco.

Hi, Amy.

How are you?

Hi, I'm doing good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Okay, so my husband and I recently just got married

and my grandma and aunt are going to be at the wedding, but they want to send us a large monetary gift.

But my husband and I, we both agree that we don't want to receive that gift.

However, my mom says it's disrespectful to not take it because it's like a cultural tradition.

And so she went ahead and talked to my grandma.

And

basically, she told my grandma that she'll take the money.

Like my grandma can just transfer it to her and then she'll transfer it to me.

I'm sorry.

We don't have any cultural traditions at our house

that we get money from a rich aunt.

So this is a new one on me.

Explain to me what the cultural tradition is.

I'm confused.

It's like a pretty popular thing in Asian culture when your relatives get married, instead of gifting them like an actual

gift, you give them money instead.

Okay, so she's getting ready to give you a bunch of money.

Are there strings attached to it?

That's why we're afraid to receive the vis receive the gift because when it comes to like money with my extended family, it feels like there's always has this happened before?

No, it's brand new.

They just got married.

But I mean the the context of I get money and there's strings attached sounds like you have some serious hesitations.

Because generally if somebody wants me to send money, I'll take it.

I'm still a little confused here.

Yeah, it it just feels like um like in the past when my grandma has sent money to my parents, it felt like there were strings attached because she's, my grandma's always been very opinionated and involved in our family decisions.

And I just don't want that for my new

married.

So let me ask you this.

If you accepted the gift, the gift didn't come with any stated strings.

They're just implied by part of the tradition is an interfering mother-in-law, right?

And so, including yours, by the way.

Oh, my God.

I'll take the money and hold it for her.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, that was very big of you.

So,

I mean,

there's no stated thing.

Like, if you take this money, we expect you to do X.

It's just you're afraid they're going to think they have the right to walk in to your house anytime they want and wag their finger at you.

Yeah.

Okay.

So what if you took the money and then when they tried that, you just said you can't do that?

Then they would be mad.

Yeah.

But they're going to be mad anyway.

And they're they're probably going to interfere anyway, whether there's money involved or not.

They probably still think they have an opinion.

Yeah, that's true, but I feel like it's easier to say no to them when there's no money involved.

You just won't feel guilty.

Yeah.

You're going to feel guilty anyway.

Guilt trips are part of your family.

They're a travel agent for them.

How much money are we talking, by the way?

It's supposed to be around $100,000 to $150,000.

What's What's your husband say?

He doesn't think we should take it.

Okay, then just don't take it.

That's fine.

Okay.

Okay, so we're not going to take it.

And then you understand, though, that when you say no, thank you, that there is no pleasant enough way to say that to tell people who think they have the right to walk into your life and tell you what to do,

that they're still not going to accept that.

You know that, right?

Yeah, yeah, because I did tell my grandma no, and she went around.

She's like, oh, I already have an agreement with your mom, and we'll just talk about it when she comes to visit me in person.

Well, that's fine.

That's fine.

You can talk to mom if you want,

but mom doesn't make my decisions.

I'm married.

Me and my husband make my decisions, and we're not going to take it.

And we love you anyway.

And anyway, none of you are going to come over here inside this house and tell us what to do.

At the time, we took that vow of for richer, for poor, and sickness and health, that means the rest of you don't get a vote anymore.

We love you, and we we respect you, but we don't have to take, you don't get a vote anymore.

So your votes are done.

Ballot box is closed.

And you can be nicer than that, but you're going to have to deliver that message like 46 times because your family is screwed up on this subject regardless of taking the gift or not.

You got that, right?

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

Like I've done this before, okay?

So it's okay.

Get Dr.

Henry Cloud's book, Boundaries, because when you read it, one of the first chapters is going to tell you you're not crazy.

You're not.

And that's good.

And that this is wrong.

And it's not a cultural thing.

It's an interference thing.

Okay?

You live in San Francisco.

The guy you married doesn't come from the culture that you're discussing.

So the two of you get to establish a new culture, a new household, and say, we're going to respect and love our elders and be kind to them, but they don't get a vote anymore, regardless of taking the gift or not.

Yeah.

There's no workaround for them.

And once they realize that, you have to know they're going to be pissed.

Yeah, that's true.

Because

people that don't respect boundaries, as soon as they realize there is actually a boundary, it pisses them off.

There will be a tantrum.

A hundred percent of the time.

But also, like, another problem is that I think my grandma still thinks that I will get the money, whereas my mom,

she's.

I don't care who gets the money.

You don't want it give it to whoever tell them to give it to your brother give it to your sister i don't care you don't want it who who do you care why do you care who it goes to

well i mean because i don't

it's not your job anymore you denied the gift if she gives it to your mom that's between her and your mom

yeah but she but my grandma thinks she's giving i know i know but that's your grandma's problem not yours and between your mom and your grandma because your mom now lied to grandma if the money never ended up in your hands for whatever it's not going to end up in your hands because you're not going to take it I hope.

So, if mom is saying, oh, I'll get it to her, well, now your mom's lying.

You can't run around over there and make these people behave.

All you can do is keep them out of your living room.

Yeah.

That's it.

And then they're going to be pissed.

So just be ready, kiddo.

That's how it works.

Dr.

Henry Cloud, the book is boundaries.

You can be kind, you can be gentle, you can be firm, you can be courageous in the language you use, folks.

But when you set a boundary with people that don't respect boundaries, whether it's a toxic boss, a crazy boyfriend, a mother-in-law that won't quit giving you recipes that her little boy loves, and you've been married 32 freaking years, and he's...

Yeah, yeah, you know, so that one sounds personal.

No, no, that didn't happen.

No, that didn't happen.

I might have given my wife my mother's recipe, but my mother didn't do it.

No, I'm kidding.

Sharon's a great cook.

She's got no problem in that arena.

I told her yesterday she's got, you know, you have the

Michelin stars for recipes.

So we had a good country meal last night.

I told her she ate, it's a two-star cracker barrel.

It's a two-star cracker barrel rare.

I didn't know Dave could bestow a Michelin star upon you.

He's got that kind of thing.

I can give you a cracker barrel star.

That counts.

So that counts for it.

Because I just made it up because it doesn't exist.

It might now.

Cracker Barrel is going to be reaching out.

It was not a chef's tasting menu.

It was a lot of grub on the plate.

It's all you need.

Just one good course.

Just telling you how it works to Ramsey's, okay?

Well, lesson learned here is: if it steals your piece, it's too expensive.

That's it.

There's the one-liner.

$150,000.

Just

drop the old Instagram quote right there.

Boom.

I tweeted, but I don't think those exist anymore.

Nobody, nobody read.

There's only one person tweeting, and

he owns it.

Yeah, well, it's not even a royal.

Yeah, that's true.

That's true.

Can't remember who owns it now, right?

Doesn't matter anymore.

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Denise is with us in New York City.

Hi, Denise.

How are you?

I'm doing good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

How can we help?

So

I'm entering grad school

and I'm looking at $200,000 worth of student debt.

I haven't started yet.

I just wanted to maybe pick your brain on like a plan on how to tackle it,

like some guidance that you can give me.

Wow.

So, you're fairly new to this program, aren't you?

I think it's, yeah, sort of, yeah, okay.

Because you, if you weren't, you would know that I'm going to break your heart and tell you not to do this.

That's the way you

get out of the $200,000 worth of debts.

Don't get in it.

But let's talk about it.

Let's talk about a minute.

I don't want to just be a dream killer.

I'd rather kill only nightmares, which is what you're signing up for.

What are you studying, pray tell?

So

I am entering into interior design.

It's the top program in New York City

at Pratt Institute.

And a year it's about $60,000.

It's $57,000 to $60,000.

And it's roughly about a three-year program.

And you'll have a

I'm not familiar with Pratt.

I'm sorry, I'm ignorant, but

you're telling me that's a university, and you will have a master's degree in interior design from that university?

Yes.

This is not an industry

certification of some kind.

It's a true master's degree in academic sense.

Yes.

Okay.

All right.

And

you have your undergraduate in what?

I have it in English.

Okay.

All right.

And

you're planning on becoming a world-class interior designer

that makes more money than doctors and lawyers

in order to pay this kind of money back, right?

I'm sorry?

Yes.

I would hope, yeah.

Yeah, that would be the only reason that you would spend $200,000 unless you're an idiot, right?

You'd have to have some thought that you were going to make a lot of money, right?

Yes.

I assume you think you're going to make a lot of money.

Maybe I'm making an assumption.

Is that wrong?

Do you think you're going to make a lot of money, or do you just think this is worth it for the art?

I know that I will.

I don't, but

because I know a lot of people that graduated from there that didn't.

I know a lot of people that have master, have MDs that don't make a lot of money.

I know a lot of people that are lawyers that are broke, and they went $200,000 in debt knowing they were going to make a lot of money.

So your best-laid plans of mice and men are a problem for you English majors.

Have you looked into all of the options for a grad program for interior design?

I did.

This is the only one that I actually have a job at the same time and pay it off while I'm going.

So what are you getting paid at the job at the same time?

I'm getting paid roughly $69 to $72

a year.

Okay.

All right.

Since I'm ignorant of the space, and I admittedly am, okay, I'm assuming that this must be

an exclusive school that is very highly regarded.

A, it's in New York City.

B, it's ridiculously freaking expensive.

Yes.

Okay.

So I'm assuming this thing is like, you know, you're getting a degree in the Harvard of Interior Design.

Is that what you're telling me?

Yeah.

Yeah, okay.

Because I would hope you wouldn't spend that otherwise for this.

Because a normal interior designer working anywhere else in the United States other than maybe London, Paris, Tokyo, or New York City are not going to make wages enough to recoup on this kind of an expenditure.

Do you understand?

Of course.

Yeah, because I mean, like, we had professional interior designers that we paid a lot of money and we built this,

you know, 600,000 square feet of commercial space we have under here.

And they did not make enough to justify that kind of expense to pick the furniture that these kind people are sitting in out here.

So

that's not how it works out here.

Working for an architectural firm in Dallas, Texas or Nashville or Chicago.

You're going to be in New York working for extremely high clients.

And so you're asking to join the NFL.

You're asking to join the NBA.

You're going to have to be the best of the best to justify this.

And if you were my daughter, I would tell you not to do this.

Right.

I'm not sure I would do it if you had the $200,000 in your pocket, but I'm positive I'm not going to talk you out of it.

But what I do want to do is I want to leave you with some doubts.

And I want you to rethink this and be sure because

100% of the time, our plans don't work out exactly the way we thought they would.

Sometimes they work out better.

Sometimes they work out worse.

But when you take on a $200,000 loan from an exclusive anything that you expect to be in the top 1 or 2% in the world

of income earners as a result to justify the expense, that is a low probability play.

It's like saying, I'm going to move to Los Angeles and wait tables until I become Tom Cruise.

It does happen, but it's a low probability play.

And so I would tell you, don't spend $200,000 to become an actor and go wait tables in L.A.

until you, until you get your star found.

And so this is a, it's a hard, this is a, you know,

there's not a whole bunch of people coming out of that school that are making a half million dollars a year, kiddo.

And you're going to have to make that to justify this expenditure and to pay it back.

And

I wish you would rethink how what it is that is

asking you, what it is inside of you that you're trying to scratch, what it itch you're trying to scratch, what it is you're wanting to to be when you grow up, so to speak?

And is there another way to go do this?

I'm looking at just some research online, and there's tons of options out there, and there's a lot of people even saying, hey, this is the most expensive school possible for this field.

It may be the best, though.

And it may be the Harvard.

And there might be some networking there that gets you in the door, and there's some pieces of that, but I still don't think it's worth four times the cost when you can do that on your own and get the degree cheaper elsewhere.

Yeah.

I mean, I know

interior designers around the nation that make, you know, three, four, and own interior design companies that make half a million dollars a year.

Some of them make more if they've got a company running, you know, that kind of a thing.

But they also learn business skills in the process, and they're not doing that based on where they went to school.

They're obviously very good at their craft, but they've also learned to apply it in a way.

So it's just, it's very, very scary when you think you've got a guaranteed

anytime someone says, if I go get this degree at this place I've got a guarantee I'm a hundred percent sure they're wrong

because it doesn't doesn't work out that way I'll give you an example

we know after doing all the student loan research this aside from Denise's situation but

that people that say where I go to school matters

The if I go to such and such a school, it has a good name, that's going to get me a job.

And we know from the research is that that's completely false.

That when you go to the oncologist and they say you have cancer, you don't really ask where they went to school.

You want to know, do you know how to fix cancer?

That's all you want to know.

And literally, where you went to school may or may not tell you that.

It's, are you a good doctor?

You know, I haven't, I don't know where my dentist went to school.

And he paid a lot of money to become a dentist.

But where he went to school did not achieve me as a client.

You know, where you go to school matters as little as anything on the planet 99.99% of the time.

Here's another thing.

Okay, if you go to a good school, you get the big jobs.

Bull crap.

78% of the Fortune 500, of the top SP 500, 78%, eight out of 10 of the CEOs operating the largest companies in America went to state schools.

They did not go to MIT.

They did not go to Princeton.

They did not go to Harvard.

78%

operating Home Depot, operating name brands that you hear that are on the stock market, the biggest companies in America, did not go to prestigious schools.

They went to state schools.

So

I call BS every time somebody starts this crap with me.

And I don't know enough about her space to be mean about it, but I do want her to rethink it.

There's definitely other options out there.

She's got to do some homework, do some research, and slow down.

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dot com slash Ramsey might not be in all states.

Today's question comes from Chris in Florida.

He says, you used to be hardline against crypto, but in the last couple of months, you've said that if you want to spend your fun money on crypto, go ahead, butt it speculation.

Have you softened your stance on crypto?

What would it take for you to see crypto as legitimate as any other currency, as legitimate?

Dave, have you gone soft on us?

Well, let's start with the basics, okay?

There is no currency, regardless of how legitimate, that is a valid investment.

You should not buy the Chinese yen as an investment

because your golfing buddy said it was a good idea, or some idiot on TikTok.

You should not buy the U.S.

dollar or the Euro and speculate on currency values.

That's what Bitcoin is.

If it's having a good day, that's what Bitcoin is.

It is not a place to invest.

If you want to speculate in commodities like gold or silver or wheat futures or

whatever future, that's what currency is.

You're speculating.

You're gambling.

Then that's up to you.

But don't call it an investment.

And no, I haven't gone soft.

Anyone who does that, I think, is wasting money

speculating in commodities i do zero of gambling in las vegas i do zero of my daughter rachel on the other hand has been known to be at the craps table in vegas but but she thinks that's fun i don't think this is fun it's not i don't understand it i don't think it's fun i i've got a buddy of mine put you know he put uh ten thousand dollars and he's worth about 40 billion or something i don't know what he's worth a bazillion dollars and he put like ten thousand dollars into crypto just so he could make fun of me because he knew he would get a rise out of me.

And I'm like, you're an idiot.

You just put $10,000 on red and spun the wheel.

But he got the joy of getting a rise out of you.

It was worth $10,000 to him, apparently.

Yeah.

I just, he wanted me to call him an idiot, and I did.

So he goes, I got more money than you.

I know you do, but you're still an idiot.

You just wasted $10,000.

And they would call you an idiot for free.

You don't need to drop $10,000.

I would have done it for talking about it, but you don't even have to really lose the money to do it.

But if that brings you joy and you want to speculate, you want to gamble with some of your money, a small portion of it, then do it.

But that doesn't change the fact that I don't think it's smart.

So I don't know.

That's always been your stance.

I think, as it comes up more, we always go, hey, we're not mad at it.

We're not going to yell at you for doing it.

But realize what you're doing is speculating and don't make it a big portion of your world or your net worth or your investment strategy.

The problem comes in when you substitute the word invest, that tells me you put a large portion of your life into this and you're getting ready to screw up your whole whole freaking life because you're an idiot.

That's where your problem comes in.

Okay, so no, I haven't softened on that at all.

Now, what was it take for me to call Bitcoin a legitimate currency?

It needs a longer track record that is stable.

Okay, let's go to an example.

I have some money on my shelf that a friend of mine, the Special Forces, brought back to me that has the picture of Saddam Hussein on it.

It was Iraqi money in the former regime that we went in and took out.

Special Forces guy cleans out a room.

There's a bunch of stacks of money that's basically worthless colored paper now, right?

Because that regime is gone.

Now there's a whole new government in Iraq, right?

There is a currency in Iraq today.

I don't even know what it's called.

The chances of me telling you to put money in an unstable, new, unproven currency in Iraq is zero

because you're putting money in an unpredictable environment that has no track record.

That's dumb.

That's Bitcoin.

Okay?

It's only Bitcoin is cool.

Well, it just has better marketing.

The hype has really worked.

Well, it's cool.

And it's what we talk about on TikTok.

They don't talk about Iraqi dinar on TikTok, right?

Or whatever it's called.

That's what the old one was called.

They probably call it in the new one.

No, you're right.

It's still that.

Okay.

So anyway, yeah, it's the non-Saddam Hussein Iraqi Donar, right?

And so I've got some Confederate money from the states of the South during the Civil War.

Worthless.

Okay?

So if a new country pops up somewhere and they have a new currency, it's the same thing as Bitcoin.

It doesn't make it cool because it doesn't make it more stable or more palatable or a better investment because it's technology-based and because you think people can spell blockchain and actually describe what a blockchain is, which is an interesting concept.

But until it stabilizes, and it ain't stable, boys and girls,

it's like riding the worst roller coaster that went off the rails at six flags.

The one that's on the news where you were left hanging upside down at six flags, that one, right?

You know, and your mother's throwing up and all that, right?

That's the one we're talking about here.

This is not good.

For some people, that's fun, apparently, though.

I know.

Use a little fun money on that.

That's right.

So I'm going to put a little my money on this.

You know, chart the volatility of Bitcoin and then smile at me with a serious face and tell me this is a solid investment.

And I'll tell you, you're smoking crack.

Okay?

Because it's not.

It's all over the freaking.

So when it stabilizes, I think it will.

I think it's here to stay.

And I think it'll be a legitimate form of transferring goods and services.

Okay?

At some point.

I think it's here to stay.

I think it's not a bad concept.

It's not an investment for sure.

And it's not a stable currency, for sure.

So, you know, no, I haven't got soft on it at all.

I've actually gotten better at trashing it.

I mean, the longer it's been around, and I feel like your stance since the beginning has been this way.

So I don't think you've changed your stance.

Yeah, when

I had the same stance when people were putting their money in Beanie Babies, too.

I actually had people call this show back in the day that had put their kids' college money in Beanie Babies.

How do you like they just took the money, bought beanie babies?

Beanie babies were quite the raid.

And thinking, well, it'll go up in value.

You couldn't get the Princess Die Beanie Baby.

Oh, that's right.

And it's on eBay right now for $10,000.

But it's never sold for $10,000.

But it's listed for $10,000.

My dog came through the house the other day with one of them in its mouth, but none of them have ever produced any value.

So it was a fad.

It was a thing.

Everybody got wild about it.

Cabbage Patch Kids, whatever you want to go to next.

Xboxes, whatever you're going to do.

Pokemon, Pokemon.

What are you people going to line up at Walmart for next year at Christmas, right?

And so that's what we're dealing with.

That's the thing.

You're hoping the next person is willing to pay more than I paid.

That's not an investment.

That's a commodity.

That's a commodity.

And the commodities go up or down based on shortage or oversupply.

And shortage or oversupply is caused by greed or fear.

So what you're doing is you have too many people chasing too few goods, drives the price up.

Basic supply-demand curve from seventh-grade econ.

And so,

you know, if you have a lot of, if you have a lot of supply and not enough people chasing it, price goes down.

It's called a glut in the market, right?

It's too available.

Nobody cares anymore.

There's no scarcity.

When the beanie babies were going through the roof and people were paying $1,000 for a princess die, buying it off each other on the bet that it was going to go on up is because they actually thought it was going to go on up.

It was

shortage and scarcity.

Toilet paper during COVID.

Remember that?

Yeah.

People were selling that stuff on eBay.

Plexiglass.

Don't you remember the time you actually were in the Plexiglass business business business?

Man.

I wish I was in the mask business and the Plexiglass business at one point.

Yeah.

Oh, and a hand sanitizer.

Oh, yeah.

That was the other one.

They were making that out of like vodka.

They were just anything you could make hand sanitizer out of, you could sell a jug of that thing.

Yeah, that's hillbillies are drinking it.

I'm just saying.

The hillbillies made out good.

Selling their bathtub hand sanitizer.

No, we have not gone soft on it.

We've,

you know, what we're trying to do, honestly, is we're trying to teach you to talk about it differently so you realize what it is.

To quit saying it's an investment and start calling it speculation.

And if you're going to speculate on anything, it needs to be with fun money because that means you're gambling.

If you're day trading in stocks, what's the percentage of people who make money in day trading in stocks?

Very few.

A few percentage points.

Like two?

Yeah.

Over, I think over 100 days, only 3% actually come out any further ahead.

Yeah.

Profitable.

97% lose money if they keep up for 100 days or more.

That's actual research, not TikTok.

Okay.

So, I mean, if you're getting your financial advice from TikTok, you got a problem.

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Lilena is with us in Denver.

Hi, Lelena.

How are you?

Oh, I have to push the button.

There it is.

I'm a little off.

What's up, Lilena?

How can we help?

First off, I want to thank you.

I started FPU back in 2011, and it's been a game changer.

With that, I've had some fluctuations.

Right now I'm looking to relocate to Denver.

I'm in California right now and it's coming down to the wire and I feel like everything is not necessarily falling apart but it's definitely a storm coming in.

I am

looking to buy a house but now I'm teetering on whether I should just rent in this new state for a while.

I got my pre-approval.

I do have some debt that I've incurred over the past couple years from divorce.

And now the transmission is going on my car and it's 10 grand and I need to get another car.

And that will affect, oh, I'm guessing it will affect my pre-approval of my loan since I'm kind of running on a tight budget as it is.

You're talking about you're going into debt to get another car.

What's that?

You mean you're going into debt to get another car?

Well, I have some debt from my divorce.

No, I said

it won't affect your, it won't affect your pre-approval unless you go into debt to get a car.

Right.

So how I calculated it, if I traded my car now, blah, blah, blah, I would end up with like around a 5 to 7K personal loan or an auto loan of some sort.

Yes, that will affect your pre-approval.

Yeah, your pre-approval was based on your current debt level, and your pre-approval is no longer pre-approved.

So you are screwing that up.

How much money do you have right now?

But if you don't need to be buying a house anyway, because you're in debt.

Well, okay, so here's the thing.

I'm selling my current house, so that will give me the cash that I need to move forward.

Wait a minute, but what does move forward mean?

Well, I will have the money to pay off my debts and then also put down on the house.

Okay.

And pay for the moving expenses and all that kind of stuff.

So I've had the cash.

When is the house?

Is the house sold?

No, it's going to be listed here in a couple days.

So I feel like my little whirlwind is whirlwinding.

And then

let me stop.

I want to make sure I've got the logistics of what you're doing.

You're moving from where to where?

Moving from California to Colorado.

To Denver.

Okay.

And the house in California is getting ready to be listed.

Right.

And you're pre-approved, not counting your new car loan to move to Denver.

But you're not going to need a new car loan because your house is going to be sold.

Right.

But I do need a new car like in the next couple weeks.

Not a new new car, but a different car.

And you have no money?

Well, the only money that I have is the money that I was going to move with.

Okay, you're going to move and buy a second house before your house in California is sold?

Well, it's kind of like that.

You know, you sell your house and then you put the down and then the contingencies and blah, blah, blah.

That kind of

thing.

This is my first time.

No, that's not how it works.

There's no blah, blah, blah.

That doesn't work that way.

So what happens is you sell the house in California and you have the money in your hand and then you blah, blah, blah, and buy a house.

And then where do I stay in the meantime?

You rent.

My two children.

You rent.

So renting so then that's the answer that I need.

Renting is probably the way you're going to do that.

That's the only way you can do it.

Otherwise, you're going to end up with two house payments.

You can't close on the new house until your sales.

And until you close on the new house, you don't have a place to live.

Right.

So that's kind of

what you're doing.

Can you wait to move?

Well, I don't really have anywhere in between to stay.

Like, I can run.

Can you stay in California?

You got a new job or something in Denver?

No,

this is kind of my opportunity to get out of California.

I've been wanting to do it for quite some time.

You misunderstood.

Are you working in California right now?

No.

You quit?

I work from home, technically.

I work in homeschool and I teach homeschool classes.

Okay, so you have a job in California.

Why don't you just stay there until your house sells?

And stay where?

Pay for yourself.

In the house you live in, kid.

That I'm selling.

Yeah, it's not sold yet.

Why don't you live there until it sells?

Oh, yeah.

So that's like my month.

I'd have like a month

to go through.

I don't know how long until it sells.

It's a week or seven weeks, nine weeks, ten weeks.

We don't know.

But you live in there until the house closes and you have to leave.

And at that point, you'll have money in your hand.

You will be debt-free and you will purchase a home in Denver.

And then, so I will be having to rent for a couple months.

No, honey.

Somewhere.

You're going to stay in California, in the house you live in, until it sells.

When it sells, you will leave with a check in your hand and move to Denver, having bought a house in Denver.

But you don't need to go buy a house until your house sells.

Sam, I guess I'm kind of gray on that whole transition because if I sell here and have to move out and I don't have another place for you.

Well, okay, let's pretend you get a contract on it tomorrow, okay?

The contract's going to say that the people have to get a loan and it's going to take about 30 days.

You run over to Denver and you put a house under contract, then contingent upon your house closing.

George sold his house the other day.

It closes on the 16th.

His new home that he and Whitney are moving into closes on the 18th.

And we have occupancy in the contract.

It says we're going to move there.

He's going to be from one house to the other.

He put his house on the market, but did not sell it out from under himself until he had the, and he didn't close on the other one until he had this one done.

Right.

The contingencies.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The contingency would be on the one you're purchasing, but it'll be a very short one.

Right, and really fast.

Because you're always going to have a contract on your house.

It's only contingent upon not your house selling, but it closing because you've already sold it at the point we're discussing here.

Right, until I get that money.

Yeah, so if you get a contract today that says you're going to close one month from today, run over at Denver, buy a house contingent upon the closing of your house one month plus a day from today.

So you close on the house in California a day later, you close on the house in Denver and you move.

But not until then and a good agent will walk you through this they'll make sure this is all in the contract and explains it all and so I don't know if you have one yet but you need one to help explain all this simply so that you're not making any mistakes there is no whirlwind here and there is no blah blah blah here it's just lining up the dominoes and understanding how they fall and you stay put until you get this house sold because it might take you three or four months to sell it and you don't need to be in denver renting and have a house payment in California hoping it sells.

You're going to become a motivated seller.

And you're going to end up giving the house in California away because you freaked out and took off before you were ready to go.

So sit tight until your house sells.

When it sells, run over at Denver and find something or run over there and rent something for six months.

I don't care.

But you don't need to do either one until your house sells.

And yes, you've got to be debt-free before you buy in Denver from the sale of your current home.

So the only whirlwind is this car situation, and you said you have money set aside for moving.

Well, we'll take that money out later from the home sale.

Right now you need that money to get you a used car in cash.

In cash and or fix the transmission a cheaper way than $10,000.

I just put a transmission in one of our vehicles here at the office and it was $7,000.

But I didn't buy a new one.

I had a rebuilt one done.

And they quoted me $14,000 for a new one.

And nice car.

You talked them down?

No,

I didn't buy another reason.

I bought it.

I had a rebuild.

It's almost half.

50% off.

I'll take it.

Almost.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, get connected with an agent.

Jump on ramseysolutions.com

agent, Lelena, and we can get you connected with a Ramsey trusted pro who knows what they're doing, who will help make your home a blessing, not a burden, and help you get some calm in your life and walk you through the right next steps.

That's what you need right now.

Yeah, this is the old cart before the house thing.

When you buy another home before your home has sold, you turn yourself into a motivated seller and you're going to cost yourself tens of thousands of dollars in panicked price reduction to get the other payment off your back.

Listen, people, don't do this.

You move deliberately and you put the dominoes in order.

And until you push the first domino, we don't push the second one.

And otherwise you end up with a set of two payments and a highly motivated, panicked, freaked-out situation.

And

it's not a good place.

You're not going to be able to do that.

You're taking the worst offers because you're debt.

There's no negotiating power.

Yeah.

Yeah, I have a property on the market right now that is debt-free.

And it'd be nice if it sold, but I don't care if it sells.

You're not desperate.

It's the opposite, it's the opposite.

So I really don't care when it sells.

You want to buy this real estate from a place?

I don't really care when it sells.

Yeah, I just care what it gets.

That's all I care.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Hey, George Camill here.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

George Camill is my co-host today.

He's a Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and the co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour and the George Camill Show.

Two big hits on the Ramsey networks.

Be sure and check them out.

Phone number here is 888-825-5225.

Gina is with us in Chicago.

Hi, Gina.

How are you?

Hi, I'm okay.

Well, how can we help today?

I'm so nervous.

I'm sorry.

It's okay.

We've never lost a patient.

You're going to make it.

So I'm a nurse.

I made a bunch of emotional decisions with my money

along with dealing with mental illness between myself and my husband.

During COVID, I was making more money than ever during nursing.

We ended up buying a home off of emotional decisions

to help keep my stepson in district.

We were having disputes about his mother moving him an hour over an hour away.

So we ended up moving in his district to help keep him, you know, in his school.

So we were well over our heads with the with the payments.

Everything came to a head emotionally,

dealing with mental illness between me and my husband.

We ended up um selling our house and paying off our debts, um,

and moving into an apartment.

Wow.

Um, sounds like you've all been through hell.

Yeah,

and so it was a two-bedroom apartment with three kids and two dogs.

Um, we ended up buying a small home

again,

and

I'm just kind of lost as to what to do next.

I owe $318 on my house

and $30,000 on a car loan that was upside down to begin with.

What do you make?

I just took on a different position to

get a more stable income

and to get benefits with my job

and to work night shift to get an extra uh differential to make more money um

so i have two jobs currently and it's about it'll be about 130.

what's your husband make

um so currently he uh staying at home with the kids until

school starts again and then we're hopefully going to get um he's going to get a part-time job.

How many kids do you have?

Two of my own and a stepson, so three.

How old are they?

Nine, ten, and fifteen.

Okay.

All right.

What does your husband do for a living?

He's a carpenter.

Okay.

He can make enough to hire somebody to take care of the kids.

I know.

He ended up losing his really good job

due to

um mental illness.

Well, you keep bringing up mental illness.

Who's struggling with mental illness?

Both of us, really.

In what way?

In what way?

What kind of mental illness?

Bipolar.

Both of you have been diagnosed bipolar?

Yeah.

Or you've just been reading the internet about it.

No, officially diagnosed.

He had um

uh

a

an episode that basically

where he ended up leaving.

He went manic and got fired.

Pretty much.

Yeah, okay.

If he's bipolar, that's a real possibility, if that's really happening.

Okay.

And he's not on meds.

Are you guys not doing your meds?

How are you working so much if you're bipolar?

We're all on meds now.

We've dealt with that situation when we're talking about it.

Okay, so now he goes and gets a job again then?

That's preferably when.

And why is it part-time when he goes back?

I mean, we just we I'm afraid of falling into the same

situation before

where it's just the job didn't cause the episode.

The lack of treatment to the bipolar with bent meds and seeing the therapist caused the episode.

Well, working was not the problem.

It was a little bit of both, though.

I mean,

it's between both of us working long hours, we both worked 12-hour shifts.

And then it was like we had somebody else raising our children.

That's different than what you're talking about, though.

I didn't suggest 12-hour shifts.

I just said get a job.

Yeah.

That's different than 12-hour shifts.

I'm not suggesting exhausting yourself.

You got to get rid of the $30,000 car payment, and you just got to get where you can breathe again.

Okay.

The thing about the $30,000 car payment, I've been

okay, so I don't know if we have no money to buy another car.

Yeah.

Well, you don't have any money to buy another car because you keep doing dumb car deals.

You're drowning.

What do you have?

A $900 car payment?

We refinance in the $570, the $57

for eight years.

Okay.

That's hopeful.

Not.

Okay, so here's the thing.

What you guys have have got to do is

we have to put the things that are in the past in the past and

learn from them.

And so what we learn from this conversation is when we make emotional financial decisions, you brought that up four times,

we make bad ones.

Correct.

Okay, so what we have to do is we have to put together cold and calculated logical decisions called wisdom

and execute on those gradually and steadily while gradually and steadily working and making money.

And the gradual steady income, not 12 hours a day,

not 18 hours a day, but the gradual steady income cleans up the mess and puts the mess of the past behind you.

Yeah, I mean, that was half the problem is that I had

had a job.

I basically took during COVID a yeah,

you probably were killing it, but you're also killing you work hours-wise.

Yeah, but it was non-benefited to get the extra hourly pay.

I don't care what the non-benefited is if you're making 250K as a nurse, okay?

And we had travel nurses during COVID making that.

So I don't give a crap if you got benefits or not if you're making a quarter million dollars a year.

So that's behind us, though.

There's not COVID right now.

We don't have a problem with that.

Today, you're a nurse.

You're very employable.

You get to pick and choose what you do.

You've picked because you wanted some benefits.

Good.

Probably needs some benefits to keep both of your all's medications going properly, agreed.

Correct.

And so I think that was a wise move.

But let's steadily, carefully, not based on the past, but based on the lessons of the past.

The lessons of the past are when he's off his meds and he goes off on his boss because he's manic, he gets fired.

Well, duh, that happens to anybody that's bipolar.

Okay?

That doesn't make him a bad guy, but that doesn't mean it's a pattern that has to be repeated either.

What was the key thing there?

He was off his meds.

And so you do your meds, you do the proper staging on that.

And if you get that dialed in in the bipolar world, you can be very, very functional.

We know that.

Dr.

John Deloney has taught us that, and we've watched it in financial coaching for years.

Because bipolar really does struggle with money issues.

Because when you go manic, you make emotional financial decisions.

That's your definition of it.

And they're always bad ones.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all.

I don't understand this, John.

Why don't people want to take care of their family?

They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys.

I didn't even think about it.

And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

They've lost somebody important to them.

Me too.

They don't know what to do next.

Me too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here.

And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow.

She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly.

These are the two options.

And turn care of of your dadgum family, man.

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually

have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah.

To just miss you.

That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance.

Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable.

I've used them personally for 25 years.

They're the only people I trust.

Go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Mike's in Charleston, South Carolina.

Hey, Mike, what's up?

Hey, how you doing, Dave?

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

How can we help?

I kind of got a pension question.

Okay.

My company offers

a pension of, say, $3,200 a month,

and the survivorship for my wife would be $2,400 a month.

Now, no question, she outlives me.

I'm 58.

I'm dead.

Is she plotting your death, or do we know?

No, but you know what?

She knows.

She knows she's going to outlive me.

Okay.

She said.

Sharon keeps telling me this, and I just ask her why she's so sure, but that's what bothers me.

So I'm just saying.

All right, anyway.

Sleep with one eye open.

So, okay, so $3,200 and $2,400 or lump sum of how much?

Half a million.

Lump sum.

Yep.

Take the lump sum, roll it to an IRA in good growth stock mutual funds.

Now, let me tell you, there's two reasons why.

And you'll find this out as you crunch the numbers, and I'm going to ask you to go do a formal answer with a good financial person.

I'm going to teach you how to do that, okay?

But here's the basics.

Your pension calculations by law, by regulation, have to be conservative to keep the pension from going broke.

And by law, they're typically right now right around 7% rate of return.

And so they calculated what your $3,200 is worth based on a 7% rate of return.

If you're in good mutual funds, you can earn 11 or 12 on average.

That's what the stock market's average since it begins, 11.8.

Okay?

And so A, you would make more

for yourself today

if your money was invested at a higher rate than 7%.

B,

when both of you die, all jokes aside, this money dies with you.

If both of you die and there's a half a million dollars in a mutual fund, it doesn't die with you.

It goes to your heirs.

So you make more while you're alive and a lot more when you're dead.

So you take it.

And those are going to be the reasons.

So if you made 10%

on $500,000, that would be $50,000 a year.

You follow me?

Yep.

Yep.

That's about $4,200 a month

without touching the $500,000.

Okay.

That's better than 3,400,

better than 2,400.

By the way, that survives both of you.

Okay.

I can roll that into my 401.

No, no, you can't.

No, I wouldn't do that.

I would roll it into an IRA.

There's no taxes on it if you do that.

And it can sit there and grow tax-free.

Now, rather than take a three-minute answer on a podcast,

but that's how it works.

That's the concept.

It's a pretty simple concept.

More while you're alive, more when you die, if you take the lump sum.

And it almost 99% of the time works out that way because of the way the pension is required to do the calculation by law.

It's an unfair thing.

They can't really compete against this.

And that's why there's very few pensions left anymore because they suck.

And so

anyway, go to ramseysolutions.com.

And click on Smart Vestor Pros.

There'll be several in your area.

I know a couple of them in Charleston, by the way, and they've been with me for years.

They don't work for me, but I recommend them as people to sit down with and talk to about this and let them unpack for you the two things we just talked about, that you'll make more with it invested, rolled over into an IRA in good mutual funds.

And how old are you guys, by the way?

458.

I like to retire at 62.

Okay, well, you got to be 59 and a half to start pulling on this money.

you know, so you got nothing until 59.5 because you've got to leave it in there, okay, rolling it to a, without penalty anyway, rolling it into an IRA.

But I would roll it to an IRA and get with our Smart Vestor Pros in the area and let them sit down.

A good thing about a Smart Vestor Pro, Mike, is they're going to have the heart of a teacher, and you're going to have them talk to you like I just did, but they're going to give you a lot more time and care than I just did.

Yeah, and I crunched the numbers just for fun, and I guess generously that he's going to live to at least 85.

And you're right, and that the lump sum wins in every case here.

I mean, you look at a 10% return, he would still have the same withdrawal over that time, same, you know, that he's going to withdraw that million bucks over that 27 years and still have 1.4 million left over to hand over to a business.

Also, if he only took the 3,200 is the number 10.

Yeah, the 38 grand a year.

Okay, instead of my 40, instead of taking all of the, at what rate of return?

That's at 10%.

At 10%.

And even at 8%, he still has an extra 700 grand sitting in that account if he died at 85.

So

if you take off your amount, not the survivorship of the wife, but the 3,200 is what George ran.

That's an interesting calculation.

So apples to apples on the monthly, only we don't have to reduce it to survive the wife.

Yep.

Okay.

And

then

let the money grow, and it'll grow to 1.2.

Yeah, 1.4 at 10% and about 700,000 at 8%.

We're going to go later.

And how old has he got to be for that to happen?

85%.

So just live to 85 if you can.

That'd be great.

Yeah, that'll

be a lot of fun.

That'll help us work out our math here.

Really helps our math.

And I do hope he lives even longer than that.

Yeah, well, I don't know what his wife's got planned, but yeah.

That's barring any other situation.

And by the way, folks, here's the thing.

You and George, you know, average death age is 76.

Yes, it is, darling.

It's 76 for males now and 78 for females now.

It's not 85.

But when you live to 60, average death age is 90.

Okay, so and he's almost 60.

So average death age includes infant mortality, teenage car wrecks, and whatever, right?

So, but if you statistically run actual data on somebody that's my age, 65 years old, I'm healthy.

The high probability I make it to 90 in today's world, 76 is not the norm.

And based on Dave's sheer willpower, I think we might see 100.

I may still be doing the show.

I'm just saying I could lose my teeth like somebody did on Ramsey.

I've been using radio.

Rachel has made that clear.

Rachel said she might give you a fake Ramsey show, like a little mock show for you.

And make me think I'm on air.

And make you think you're on air.

Once you're senile in your 90s, we'll just go.

Gen 2 has a plan.

Exactly.

So just put the old man out to pasture and he doesn't even know he's there.

You'll never know if it made it to air or not.

It might just be for funsies.

If the third caller's name is still Bessie, we're talking to the cows.

Okay.

Producer James is going to schedule a lot of great calls for you for you to have a good idea.

Nothing to do with this.

Don't change his idea.

Leave me out of this.

Now, that's a plan only Rachel Cruz could dream of.

All right, let's go to Cherry in Ashland while we still have time.

Cherry, what's up?

Hello, Mr.

Randy and Mr.

George.

My question is, how can my husband and I go about talking to our boss about

number one getting a raise?

Good, okay.

The way you do that is you switch shoes.

Stop.

Just switch shoes.

If you were the boss, how would you want to be talked to about a raise?

I've listened to a lot of what Tim says, and I agree with him to ask you for a moment.

Wait, you're not talking directly into your phone.

That's a bad way to ask for a raise.

Hold on.

You got your phone off somewhere else.

We can't hear you.

You can't hear us.

Talk directly into it so I can hear you.

Number one,

if you're the boss.

Yes, much better.

If you're the boss and

you own a company, when would you pay someone more?

A.

If you can't replace them, if they make $50,000 and the new person, you got to pay $70,000,

that means you're underpaying what the market is and you would pay what you could replace them for.

That's one time.

The second reason you would give someone a raise is if they're adding great value and you want to be a blessing to them because you think they're bringing in more than they cost.

Okay.

So how would that apply in our particular situation?

We do not, we are not employed by like a corporate business.

We are employed by a single individual, like a wealthy person, and we take care of his properties.

Same exact thing.

Same exact thing.

Have you saved him a bunch of money taking care of his property by getting good bids on the work that's done?

Have you done a good job of managing the property so there's not problems because you're there, you're helpful?

Then he wants to bless you by paying you more to keep you around.

The guy that runs a lot of our properties and a lot of the maintenance programs on our property makes really dadgum good money, but he's amazing too.

Right, George?

Yeah, there's a direct connection between the value you're bringing every year and your pay.

And if you continue to bring value, you continue to show that, you continue to be grateful and humble, the raises will show up.

Yeah, you just say,

you know, if you want to get someone else do this job, it's going to cost you more than you're paying us, A.

And B, we've made you a lot of money and saved you a lot of money.

By the way, we did these three things.

We'd love it if you'd consider paying us some more.

What would that sound like?

And you just make a good case for that.

My full-time job is helping people make smart money decisions, but in my spare time, I'm a grill master.

Okay, more of a semi-amateur enthusiast.

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Thanks for being with us, America.

When tackling debt or building wealth, people can often forget about the other side.

There's the offense and the defense.

Good defense makes you wealthy too, and that's called the right kinds of insurance.

Insurance is a tricky deal.

Don't we all hate insurance?

I pretty much hate insurance.

It's like

if your son became an insurance agent, you wouldn't be like proud.

I mean, you know, it's like we just hate insurance.

There's just something about it.

It feels like we're pissing money away all the time, right?

Because sometimes you are.

That's why you feel that way.

Insurance is not bad, by the way, and I'd be happy if my son was an insurance agent if he was selling the right kind, because it's a good defense.

Because you get the right kind of insurance.

I mean, you need life insurance to take care of your kids if you die, right?

They need to eat.

You need good car insurance.

If a car gets wrecked, you've got to take care of that.

You need a house and homeowner's insurance.

So house burns, you got to take care of that.

But then there's all these rip-off insurances out there.

And, you know, we get caught up in trying to insure everything where we never have anything go out.

Well, that's going to cost you out the ear and the rear, both.

I mean, this is bad.

Ears and rears.

Ears and rears.

That's it.

So anyway, what we've come up with is our guys in our protection section at Ramsey Solutions Solutions came up with the coverage checkup.

Yep, for free.

You can get your insurance looked at.

You fill it all out for free.

We will send you back.

You're getting ripped off on this.

You're not on this.

You're underpaying on this.

You're overpaying on this.

This is a good deal.

Oh, you haven't got enough of this.

And we'll give you everything you need to know.

So good insurance is worth the money and is part of a good financial plan, even though we all kind of go ucky.

All right.

But bad insurance will get you ripped off and you'll never have any money because all you did is insure everything.

And the insurance company got all your money, right?

And so they got big buildings and you got a dinky butt house.

That's how that works, right?

So we don't want that either.

And the guy calling to renew your auto

extended warranty, too.

Oh, gosh.

You still get a card.

On a car you don't even own anymore.

Yeah, that guy.

Yeah, him too.

So go to ramseysolutions.com slash checkup.

Take the coverage, check up for free.

Click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcasts.

This is all free.

And, guys, we believe in the right kinds of insurance and we believe in not letting you get screwed on the other.

And we don't care which one you do, except that we like you and we want you to win.

You need the right Goldilocks level of insurance, and this will act as your coach.

And it's the same types of insurance that Dave and I have.

Just right.

Just right.

Not too much, not too little.

Thank you for that.

Matthew is in Dallas.

Hey, Matthew, what's up in your world?

Hey, Dave, how are you doing?

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

So

I've got some home repairs and some sort of pending medical dental issues that are going to exhaust my emergency fund.

And I'm wondering if it makes sense to access some of the equity in my house to help to cover that or maybe even a loan against my 401k.

Nope, nope, nope, nope, and nope.

Nope and nope.

Nope and nope.

Nope.

Don't want a loan on the 401k.

Don't want a loan on the house.

Let's deal with this.

So what I would do is I would break these things into

break the issues down into as many different

events as I could.

Okay, for instance, if there's five different things that need to be repaired on the home, they don't all have to be done at once.

Let's break them down and put them in order of what we would want to do first, what we do second, what we do third.

Same thing with the dental.

Is the dental all one thing, or can it be done in two different things?

Or what period of time can it wait?

What is involved?

What is the dental thing, by the way?

Well, my wife is at the dentist right now, and I think she's got a bunch of implants she's going to need, and they're talking $30,000 to get all that done.

And so

happy wife, you know?

Yeah,

happy dentist.

No, I'll tell you what we're going to do there is we're going to get what's known as a second opinion

and a third opinion and a fourth opinion.

Is she in the chair right now?

Oh, she's doing a little bit of work today.

But yeah, she'll come home with sort of the, you know, the

prognosis and let me know what we've got to talk about.

Okay.

The vast majority of dentists in America do a really good job, and some of them are semi-con artists.

Yeah, I understand.

So we're going to get a second and a third opinion and figure out what the treatment plan is for implants.

Because I'll be honest, I've been doing this show 30 years.

The number of times I heard anybody say anything about dentistry that was 30 grand was close to zero.

It does, that just boggles my mind.

I don't know anything about dentistry, okay?

But I've taken a lot of calls from people.

There's something about that.

And so, again, I am not mad at dentists.

I have one.

I have friends that are dentists.

A lot of them do a great job.

We help people that are in dentistry all the time.

It's a good field.

But, you know, what we've got to do, it's a very emotional thing, and you need to, you know, we need to stage this out.

Now, what home repairs have you got?

So, it's one monolithic repair.

It's foundation that's settling on the house, and it's causing damage to the property.

And I've had about three different contractors come out, and I've got quotes from $10,000 to $31,000, and I'm trying to assess all the purchasing costs.

And you have how much in your emergency fund?

I've got three grand.

I had $15,000, but I spent it all on baby step number two.

So you're in debt still?

I got about $7,000 in credit card debt.

What's your household income?

$190,000.

Okay, and you need $60,000 to clear all this.

Yes, sir.

Max.

Yeah.

First dental bid and worst foundation bid is $30,000 and $30,000.

Did I get those numbers right?

Yeah.

That's $60,000.

You make $190,000.

I think we can work this out this year.

Yeah, that's what I was looking at.

I was forecasting it about cash flowing this stuff over the next year.

Yeah, you may have to stop your 401k.

Have you done that yet?

No, you haven't.

I have.

You have?

Yeah.

When?

Yeah.

I stopped the 401k

probably

a month or two ago.

Okay.

All right.

All right.

But you're bringing home 11 or 12 grand a month?

Yeah.

And how much of that can you put away toward all these savings goals?

Maybe five.

So your expenses are seven grand a month just to keep afloat?

Yes.

Yes, sir.

I think we need to look into cutting some of these expenses.

Well, I'm paying off debt.

I'm getting rid of

cars.

Yeah, I've paid over.

Yeah, currently, I've paid a lot of it off over the last few months.

Yeah, currently, you shouldn't have seven grand a month in expenses, is George's point.

So, okay, we're going to tighten the budget.

We've got $12,000 a month to work with.

We need $67,000 to be debt-free, dental-free, and foundation-free.

And we make $12,000.

We make $144,000 take-home pay.

That's a one-year set of goals.

We just force-rank these, decide when we're doing what, and we save into them.

First, you clear the seven.

We figure out what the two stages or three stages are

on the dental, and you get another bid or two on that for real.

I'm not kidding you.

And then you decide maybe it's not the $30,000 foundation.

Maybe it's the 20.

And so maybe it's a 20 and 20.

Maybe we have a $40,000 problem and not a $60,000 problem.

You can do this.

You can cash flow this in a year.

You're not going on vacation, by the way.

And you're not going out to eat every night, by the way.

And we're unplugging Prime from your little Amazon button, by the way.

And whatever else this money is leaking to, because you have some serious stuff you've got to put money to.

You have to completely focus your cash flows on $7,000 plus foundation plus teeth.

And you get those things out, but you don't go borrow your way out of this mess.

That's how you got in the mess in the first place.

And you did call us, by the way.

Yeah, you called the wrong guys if you're looking to take out a HELOC.

I don't know how long you've been listening to the show, but there's other options.

And we just showed you, you have an amazing income and you don't have a lot of debt.

And so now we can clean this up.

You start throwing six, seven grand at this a month.

We're done in less than a year.

This whole thing clears in a year.

But you've been staring at it as one giant pile all at once, and that's very overwhelming.

You're not doing both of these things by Friday.

And you don't need to, by the way.

So get that priority list down, like Dave said, of what needs to be done, when does it need to be done.

Let's get bids on all of it, and then make the smartest choice from a place of strength and not desperation.

And if a contractor needs to go in there and shore up the wall with some temporary stuff so it holds four more months in order to get the job four months from now,

oh, I bet he'll do that.

Can you tell I've asked for that before?

Yeah, own a lot of real estate, seen a few foundations fall.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Thanks for being with us, America.

Landon is in Fort Collins, Colorado.

Hi, Landon.

What's up?

Wow, I uh thank you guys for taking my call.

It's an honor to speak to you guys.

Sure.

How can we help?

Yeah.

So my wife and I, we have three boys under the age of three.

I've been a stay-at-home dad for the last three years.

So my question is: should I re-enter the workforce if it means I spend more time away from my family?

Three boys under the age of three.

Yeah, we have 19-month-old twins, and my oldest is three.

This is so exciting.

Car T.

Man, it's been a while.

Car T, baby.

What are you going to do with the kids if you go back to work?

You're going to have to put them in, what, daycare or something?

Yeah, so I've been watching them full-time during the day while my wife is at work.

She's a foster care worker out here in Colorado.

She's a what career.

And I've been working foster care.

Foster care.

Okay, good.

Okay.

And what did you do before all of this family explosion?

Well, my background is in church ministry as a worship leader, but I also have a lot of restaurant experience.

So I've been working in restaurants for the last several years in the evenings and on the weekends while my wife stays home with kids.

Okay.

And what's driving you to want to go back to the workforce?

Well,

beginning of this year, as you can imagine, with three boys and diapers, it's been a lot on our stream financially.

And God just gave me a wake-up call.

We got our finances back in order.

Got sick and tired of being sick and tired.

And so here we are being on budget for going on seven months now.

But that's you taking those evening gigs, right?

So is that what you mean when you say enter the workforce?

You've already done it?

Well,

I've been working on the weekends and at night.

Yeah, but you're talking about going back full-time.

Okay.

So if you go back full-time, what are we doing with the kiddos?

So that would be, well, the closest family we have is three hours away.

So there was talks of us moving closer, but that looks like that plans

off the table for now.

We also talked about splitting time with watching the kids, my wife doing like a work-from-home day,

one day a week,

or just absorbing the cost of a nanny

and getting more serious about finding just jobs that pay more than a nanny would cost.

So anything above that would be pure profit.

And daycare is not on the table?

I don't think so.

It's just we've looked at the child care costs out here, and it's just insane.

Yeah, three and and three little ones.

You can hire a nanny.

Yeah,

probably and come out.

Yeah.

Okay, so your question is, I'm trying to figure out what is you're wanting to do.

So I want to,

well, I'm being considered for a part-time church position right now, but that would be a matter of about 20 hours a week.

So

finding another part-time,

at the very most, it'd be about $29 a year.

And what does your wife make right now?

She makes $65,000.

Okay.

So you would change careers is what you're talking about.

Well, no, I did that prior to us having kids.

And even like while we've had kids, I've been a worship.

No, no, I mean, I mean,

okay.

You're not talking about a $29,000, and that doesn't afford a nanny.

Well, no,

that's just for $20 a week.

It's basically a part-time gig, kind of like what I've been doing, but I'm talking about getting another part-time, if not another full-time position on top of that.

Because I'm tired of being this broke.

Okay.

All right.

That's where we are.

Okay.

All right.

Well,

100% of the time that we go to work, we're away from our family.

Everyone.

Men, women,

babies, teenagers, at home, 100%.

Okay.

And so perpetually,

ladies that are working outside the home

get guilt-tripped about not being in the home.

Ladies in the home get guilt-tripped about not being in the workplace.

Men working in the home get guilt-tripped, or men being at home with the kids get guilt-tripped for not being in the workplace.

And you get, I get this call, or you're in the workplace, you're going, We're farming out our three kids, you know.

And

so

there's, I think the trick is to achieve a balance called parenting.

And the balance is that

when you're there, you're there.

You're not watching Netflix.

And that you arrange your schedules in such a way that the amount of time that one of you or the other is not there is minimal.

And then, if you've done all of that, you don't have, you are working, you are earning some money.

I'm tired of being this broke.

We are cleaning up the mess.

And we're not destroying our children in the process.

Okay?

So

lots of families, both parents work in America.

Most families, both parents work in America.

And now, not every family has as many tinies as you got.

You got a bunch of tinies.

You got a circus going on over there, man.

So

you're at a prime time for crazy, man.

This is, it's wonderful.

But our youngest granddaughter is getting ready to turn one next week.

And so, you know, we've had these littles running around our ankles for the last few years, and we're just watching them parent them.

It's a mess.

And I had forgotten how much dead gum work it is.

But so, you know, you're a freaking hero been doing what you're doing.

I admire you.

Well,

it feels like some days I forget too, but I think that's the sleep depredation talking.

Yeah, well, and the fact that you've not had the English language spoken in front of you all day.

You're doing great on this call so far.

I'm impressed, Landon.

But it's going to be harder for you because you've been around them 24-7.

And so it should be more difficult for you because this jump is a little bit further.

So, if I'm you, which is the way, you know, if I understand your question properly, I am going back to work under two conditions.

One, I make enough to justify the nanny's hours that does need to be there.

Two, we figure out how we can adjust all of our hours to where one of us is there a lot of the time, where this is not, we're not both gone straight up nine to five every day.

You know what I'm saying?

And so if she's there a lot of mornings or she's there, she works from home on Fridays and,

you know, there's a, so their kids are with a nanny five hours, six hours a day, four days a week, and you guys can accept that for a period of time, and you are making enough to make that money, make enough money to make that worthwhile,

then you've got two things working.

You've got a good touch point on the kiddos, and we're not messing up the kiddos,

and we don't have to be freaked out about that.

Because you're going to get judgment, you know that, from outsiders, but they don't get a vote.

You and your wife are the ones figuring this out.

So if I know my kids are okay, and I haven't just completely nine to five,

you know, left them,

which is a concern from your point emotionally, and that's a fair one, and I'm making enough to justify the nanny's hours that is there, then I'm doing this.

But it may take a while to line up all those stars.

And you probably need to go make 65, 70 grand to make this make sense.

Yeah, definitely.

You have a take-home pay of $4,000 to pay a nanny or even daycare.

Yeah, absolutely.

And that's the other thing I've been

kind of with this shift away from being a stay-at-home dad.

I'm wanting to start pursuing a career in the trades, but the hard part about that is just the distance from our local union is like an hour's drive away.

There's trades that aren't union.

Yeah,

I'm just looking at it like with like electrical trades is what I've got.

Lots of electrical trades that aren't union.

Yeah.

In Fort Collins, freaking Colorado, it's not exactly a union hub.

Yeah,

the only true thing that's in this area is a private.

But yeah, there's two unions for down the line.

Dude, if you want to be an electrician, you can go to work for a guy wiring houses right now and start learning.

Yeah.

And you can make really good money non-union.

Yeah, the hard part is I've seen that it's just low for the first couple of years until you actually

depends on where you are.

I know the long-term benefits are worth it.

Not only my

more than my life would not necessarily.

There are guys that are blessed in union situations and there are guys that are trapped in them too.

It's not apples to apples.

So don't let that be your limiting factor.

Trades are starving and they pay well, whatever the trade is, electrical or otherwise.

They're starving.

They need you and they pay really well.

And they're probably going to be pretty flexible because you probably could start at sunup and be home by 3:30.

And that starts to adjust the schedule, like we're talking about.

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage.

To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros.

Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would.

Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com slash insurance

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions it's the ramsey show where we help people

build wealth Do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships.

Thank you for joining us, America.

George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the George Campbell Show on the Ramsey Networks.

He's my co-host today.

Maya is with us in Switzerland.

Hey, Maya, what's up?

All right, guys.

Thank you for taking my call.

Sure.

How can we help?

So I started to listen to you all a few months ago, and I think that I am doing everything roughly in the right order, but I'm stumped on the one point about saving for a down payment.

And the reason is I live overseas as you heard and my parents basically have set me up to inherit two homes so I'm not feeling like it would make sense to save for a down payment when I stand to inherit homes pretty soon so I'm focusing on investing instead but I wanted to check that with you guys are they in poor health

My mother passed away actually two, three years ago, and my father is 85.

So I'm actually helping him manage all the logistics with respect to the homes so they're effectively under my management at the moment okay

are you gonna be in Geneva permanently or is this a short stay or what

I've been here for four years I like it here but I don't think I'm gonna retire here I'm 30 so just to give you an idea of also where I am in my what do you do I'm curious

I work for a nonprofit okay cool I've been to Geneva several times and Switzerland is one of my faves it's just fabulous so I'm a little bit jealous right now now.

It's beautiful.

It is absolutely beautiful.

And the best train system in the world, man.

It's unbelievable.

Trains run on time.

Swiss time, by the way.

Yeah, it's great.

Anyway, sidebar.

But yeah, I don't blame you for wanting to stay.

The point is, you're not going to be there permanently.

And if you're investing in good mutual funds, there's nothing that keeps you from

when you're 40, liquidating the two houses and some of your investments to buy a home that you want someday.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, exactly.

The likelihood of you living in one of these two homes until you're 80

is probably zero.

But selling one of them, selling one of them to buy your home is probably pretty high.

One of them is fully paid off.

It's worth about $900.

The other,

we owe about $500 on it still, but it's rented at the moment for more than the mortgage.

And so I put all of the rent towards the mortgage.

Good.

And then there's a third condo that we have to sell for various reasons in the next year.

And so I'm expecting to get about $150 from that to throw it.

I'm going to put that towards the mortgage.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm planning on putting that there.

Let's pretend for just a second, just mathematically, that there's no emotional connection to any of these.

You're going to have a million five in real estate pretty soon.

Yeah.

And if you liquidated that and bought whatever you wanted three years from now, you haven't lost any ground at all.

So or 10 years from now, I don't care.

So you're fine.

No, you don't have to save for a down payment, quote unquote.

But when you put money into an investment,

if you decided the name of that investment someday was add to the down payment, you could.

You could do that if you wanted to, but it's not messing up your baby steps.

You can just invest.

That's fine.

Are you debt-free?

Yeah, I'm totally debt-free.

I have about 75K in high-yield savings, and I have about 50 in a Roth and 35 in a brokerage that I add about $3,000 to a month.

Yeah, I'd just run this like you were in Baby Step 7.

I agree with you.

Okay, that's super reassuring.

Can I ask a second question since we're all here?

Sure.

I was basically wanting to know, I'm thinking about changing careers sometime in the next year or so.

And

we're generating rental income from the U.S.-based properties.

I have solid savings, as you've heard.

Is there anything that I need to keep in mind just in terms of keeping myself financially okay if I had to, for example, get another degree and potentially start over in a new line of work?

Would you not work during the

as long as you have the income to support both things, I'm fine.

Okay.

Like if you took a year off and went to school full-time?

Probably.

It would probably be a year to two years, or if I decided I really wanted to do a radical switch, I would get a PhD and that would take several years.

I probably would do that while working.

Okay.

Nancy,

at your age, I would go to work for the university and be a TA and get your Ph.D.

for free.

You would say that I should work even if we are netting somewhere between $6 to $7K on the rentals a month, and that's just money for me to take.

Like my father is.

Yeah, I don't want you sitting around working on a Ph.D.

doing nothing.

It's not a full-time job.

PhD is a process.

We take calls from perpetual students, and what it turns out is it's usually a distraction from something else, and they're just sort of in school to keep.

What would you be getting your PhD in?

I'm actually considering retraining as a psychologist.

It's an area of super interest of mine, and again, there's different ways to do that, right?

So you can...

You'd have to get a minimum of a master's in order to get

you don't have to have a PhD, but it's nice to have doctor in front of your name if you're doing that.

But yeah.

Yeah.

But yeah, again, that's something you can do while doing some other things and build that up.

That's just a decision you've got to make.

But no, I wouldn't take five years off and live off of the rental income and work on a Ph.D.

exclusively.

No, I think you probably put your hand to the plow a little bit.

It'll be good for you in the process.

And be sure you do some practicum stuff around that.

Get around some of the counselors and things you think you want to do and make sure before you put all this time and effort into it that you do really want to do it.

Not just I'm intrigued by it.

There's a lot more money and effort than that to get a PhD.

So might get a master's and get open my practice and get started and then work on your PhD while you're doing that.

It might actually help your dissertation.

So if you're actually doing something in the real world,

might I don't know.

We'd have to ask Deloney.

He's the one around here that collects PhDs.

He's got two of them.

Yeah, I know.

He's got two more than me and you put together.

Yeah.

That's okay.

We all have the same job.

So what does that say?

I have a PhD in DUMB.

I graduated.

I graduated.

And you graduated from that school debt free.

I did.

Minus a few zeros.

Maya, I think you got a good plan.

You're working smart.

Keep it up.

Lean into that and think it through.

Sidebar for everybody else.

George, we don't recommend buying real estate

for a home, A, when you're in debt and don't have any savings.

And B, we don't want to be perpetual renters for 50 years, but it's okay to

not own real estate at certain periods of time.

Especially when you're living internationally.

As an example.

Yeah.

And so, but you don't want to,

you know, you don't want to miss out on the appreciation of the real estate market for 40 years.

You don't want to miss out on

the savings that you have in the cost of living by not being a renter because rent goes up every year, but payments don't.

House payments don't.

Yeah, if you get a fixed rate loan, that payment's going to stay the same outside of your property, taxes, and insurance.

And then you get it paid off, and then all you've got is property and taxes and insurance.

And, you know, that it becomes part of your wealth-building plan to be an owner in real estate.

So we love real estate.

We think you ought to buy real estate.

We think you ought to be a homeowner.

But there are certain times when you take a break and don't do that.

Yeah.

And military folks, this applies to them a lot.

They're moving around every two years.

Do not go and buy a home and then just up and leave, or worse, rent it out and have a little rental empire across the country you got to deal with.

Of houses that are in debt that you became a landlord by default on.

Oh, that would be a a nightmare right there.

I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, bankrupt with a toddler and a brand new baby at home, scared, doesn't even begin to cover it, but I got mad enough to change.

I started using God's and grandma's ways of handling money.

That journey became the total money makeover, a plan everyday people can use to take control of their money.

Millions have changed their lives following the plan in this book and found hope.

Start your makeover today at ramseysolutions.com/slash store.

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings.

These are new trainings every week this month, and they're hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities like George.

I did one this week.

I had a good time.

Did you?

Was the Q ⁇ A good?

I can't speak for that part.

I'll have to ask the audience to see what they thought of it.

I mean, did you get good questions?

Oh, really good.

We actually put them on audio.

We say, hey, jump on there.

And we get to hear their voice like the Ramsey show.

So it's a lot of fun.

Okay, that's cool.

It's all free.

And you go to everydollar.com slash webinar, and we're going to show you how to stick to a budget and find $9,000 worth of margin using Every Dollar.

That's the the average we're seeing with every dollar users that do it the way we teach.

And we're learning to teach you inside the app how to do it.

And we're going to accentuate that app experience with George or Rachel or Jade.

And they're going to teach you how to do it.

And $9,000 worth of margin.

Is that like a month?

That is a total margin created.

So that's if you sold stuff, money you freed up every month.

Okay, so total amount.

So reorganizing the existing situation to put it towards the baby steps.

Exactly.

It creates $9,000 worth of oomph.

Hey, that's pretty cool.

Serious.

It's called like a head start.

That's breathing room right there.

Do y'all ever do head starts when you're like racing as a kid?

The little kid gets a head start?

That was always me.

A $9,000 head start.

That's pretty cool.

I'll take that.

I'll take that.

Where I come from.

I love a head start.

Did you get a head start, George?

Always.

Always.

Did you ever win?

Occasionally.

I'm faster than I'm.

I think you're probably a little gazelle going there.

Yeah.

The little feet, but they're quick.

A little gazelle going.

I'm just saying.

You ever seen a lizard move?

It's impressive.

It's exactly what I look like running.

Just, yeah, I've seen.

There's.

No, I can't.

Okay.

Quinn is in Houston.

Hey, Quinn.

Hey, how are y'all?

Better than we deserve.

What's up?

Hey, so, long story short, my question is kind of: am I the financial abuser in my marriage, or is it actually my husband?

Whoa!

Okay.

Harsh words have been spoken.

Yeah.

Yes.

Okay.

Why are you the financial abuser?

Does he say?

Okay.

So basically, my husband earns about $140,000 a year.

He is also applying actively for positions that, and he has a good chance of getting a job that pays like $165,000 plus a 25% bonus every year.

So roughly, you know, $200,000 a year.

He's a software engineer, basically.

I, on the other hand, I make $50,000 a year at my job, and I do get a little bit of child support from my ex, but it's not consistent.

I'm also in graduate school.

I still have two two or three years left.

He claims that I'm the financial abuser because he says that I have more money in my bank account.

The reason that I have more money in my bank account is because I actually sold my vehicle because it was going to cost more to sell.

Are y'all married?

We are.

We have separate bank accounts.

It's a whole thing.

It is a whole lot.

I think we found the problem.

Yes.

So we basically had separate bank accounts from the time we moved in together.

That was his decision.

I wanted joint, you know, even before we got married.

We were living together when we were engaged,

but he insisted on having separate for the time being, and he claimed that, you know, we would look into getting joint.

No, but now you're married.

How long have you been married now?

Yes.

Two years.

Okay.

So you're an abuser because you have more in savings?

Just more in general.

So he claims that he has to use all of his income that he makes.

He has about maybe $10,000 in savings and his checking, I mean, his checks are roughly $7,000 a month.

So he makes $200,000, you make $50,000, and he has to pay more of the bills, and that makes you the abuser?

Yes.

Well, right now he's not making $200, but he has a potential.

No, no, no, no, no.

He's going from $144 to $165,0 plus a 20% bonus.

I know the story.

So if you transferred all of your money to his account, now he's the abuser because he has more than you?

No, I didn't transfer my money to his account.

It's an example.

I'm saying I don't understand how that's abusive to have more money in an account than someone else.

I agree.

I agree.

And he claims that he has to use all of his money basically to pay all the big bills.

He went and got a very expensive car payment before we got married.

I advised him not to do that.

I told him he should get a used vehicle.

Let's stop.

Let's stop.

The problem is that you guys have done this all wrong.

There's no abuse here.

It's just stupidity.

Yeah.

I don't know.

That's the only way to say it.

No one's.

That was harsh, George.

I'm sorry, but sell the pony.

You guys are like fenmoing each other, going tit-for-tat and scoreboards, and you have more than me this month.

Yeah.

Okay, number one,

this is not abuse by either one of you, and that is not a word you should use about your spouse.

Yeah.

Okay, unless there's some extreme emotional or physical harm being incurred.

There's no, you know, and there's not anything like that going on here.

If he takes all of your paychecks and gives you an allowance, we would call that there's some financial abuse.

If he wouldn't let you buy food or something, then that would be abuse, okay?

But that's not going on here.

This is just an argument because you guys have two separate lives and you can't decide with your roommate who needs to buy the mustard.

Right.

Yeah.

And so

if you cannot sit down in the next few weeks and have adult discussions about

having a real marriage, which is a combined income where we change our names.

We don't have his income and your income.

We have our income.

We don't have your savings or my savings or your car or my car or your debt or my debt.

We have our problems and our opportunities and our savings and our income.

And then you combine everything

and you do a combined budget to reach towards the goals that we both believe we want our future to look like, which would include paying off his stupid car or selling it.

It would include working a plan to get out of debt and have an emergency savings.

It would include having some money set aside to do some fun things with.

It would include generosity, that these are decisions as a married couple that we are now making together because you are no longer roommates.

If you cannot change your language and the spirit of this discussion to that kind of combination, that the two of us are going to join arms and it's us against the world and we are going to go win together,

then you will need to sit down with a marriage counselor.

Right.

And we are in marriage counseling now, but he's kind of, he's been actively plotting divorce with his mother who does not like me.

Okay.

It's been a whole now.

We're getting to it.

Now we're getting to it.

Yeah.

Okay.

So that's.

So there's no financial abuse going on.

We have marriage problems.

Yeah.

And we have mother-in-law problems.

Oh, yeah.

She determined from day one she did not not like me.

And she's made a

chance to

divorce?

He's given me access to his phone.

He told me I could go through it anytime I want because there was a path of porn addiction.

So I found emails that

were between his mother and he where he was claiming that I am coercively controlling him, that I'm financially abusing him,

and she was talking to him about how she's going to pay for his retainer for his lawyer.

Okay.

She even recommended to the lawyer that.

If you guys don't have marriage counseling, both of you going to a good counselor to begin to work through this and carving his mother out of the discussion, you're not going to make it.

Right.

So all of the other stuff doesn't matter then.

Right.

Yeah.

That is kind of where we're at is that he is, he claims that he, because we agreed to go no contact with his mom because of some things she'd been doing.

Yeah.

And then he violated that.

And he's, he's, and he, you know, you guys are not working together.

He's working.

He's developing a plan to leave.

If that that is not truncated, he's going to leave.

Right.

And then he claims that he only does that because he's upset.

No, it's not true.

He's a child.

He's being a little boy, and he ran to his mommy.

Yes.

That's what I've been telling him.

And it makes me feel incredibly isolated.

And so I'm kind of, I don't know.

If you do not both start going to marriage counseling, the net result is you're not going to make it six months.

Right.

We've been doing it on and off.

We've got a new one recently.

I think she's good.

He's not going.

Yeah.

Listen to me.

If you two are not together in a marriage counselor's office soon and regularly, you're not going to make it six months, honey.

You don't have a language to talk to each other right now.

Right.

All this is a,

every time you look at him, it's a battle.

Every time he looks at you, it's a battle.

There's nobody working towards something.

We're all working away from everything.

All of your language has been that since you've been on the phone.

Separate accounts do not solve problems, they just conceal them.

Joint accounts don't solve problems, but it does expose them.

And that's a good thing.

It gets to the root of the problem in the marriage.

And that's it, you know, the whole discussion started out as a separate account discussion, and turns out that wasn't the problem.

It was masking the real problem.

The real problem is mother-in-law.

Well, that's never happened.

I had a nickel.

That's never happened.

Why is it that when warm weather hits, people start losing their common sense?

They swipe credit cards left and right saying, I need

a vacation.

I deserve this.

But by August, they're stuck cleaning up a mess.

Listen to me carefully.

You don't need to spend five grand on beach trips and theme park tickets to make family memories.

Here's the deal: instead of having the summer you deserve, have the summer you can afford.

That means planning ahead with the Every Dollar Budget App.

It helps you track spending and give every single dollar a job.

That way, you make sure the essentials are covered and have some fun without making a money mess.

Look, you gotta start bossing your money around, or else it'll always be the boss of you.

Download Every Dollar Today.

Taylor's with us in Fresno.

Hey, Taylor, what's up?

Hi, George.

Hi, Dave.

Hey, how can we help?

So I'm wondering if I should

go to Italy while I'm saving for a house and for a car.

Sure, as long as you don't want to buy the car or the house as soon.

Exactly.

Because it's kind of like that math trade-off thing, right?

Yes.

Italy's cool.

I mean, I want to find out.

How much is it going to cost?

About $7,000.

Okay.

So how long does that delay your goal on a house?

I'm planning on saving $200,000 just to get in that 25% of my take-home being my mortgage.

So probably only by six months.

Okay.

So you're only saving the house.

So an Italy trip costs your house purchase six months.

Say that again.

If you go to Italy, you buy the house six months later than if you don't go to Italy.

Yes.

So what are you going to do?

Well, the reason why I am really questioning it is just because I've been trying to be intentional about where my money is going and what I'm saving it for.

You are being intentional.

Then I'm taking the money that I was like saving for a house and a car and now I'm spending it on Italy.

That's what I was like a little bit more than a hundred years ago.

But you're intentionally doing it and you're thinking about it because we're making you look at what the trade-off is.

And if you can accept the trade-off and you still want to go to Italy that bad,

then you'll go to Italy.

If you don't, you know, is it worth seven months delay in purchasing a home?

Okay.

What do you make?

I make about 98.

How old are you?

I'm 37.

Who's going with you?

It's a good friend and a group.

A group.

Okay.

Yeah, a group.

So somebody else pulled the trip together.

Correct.

And interjected it as an interruption to your plan.

Well, I mean,

yeah, it's an opportunity, and I don't know.

No, it's an interruption.

It's an interruption.

Yeah.

And that's okay.

See, the thing about intentional is you weigh out the differences.

When you're not intentional, you go, woo-hoo, Italy.

But damn the question, right?

And you didn't do that.

Which means you got your freaking act together.

I'm proud of you.

Well, it's because of you.

You said, I can do this, but it's going to cost me, which is like an adult statement rather than a child statement of, I work so hard and I've always dreamed of Italy.

Bull crap.

We all work hard and everybody's dreamed of Italy.

But most people put it on a credit card and worry about it later.

You're actually feeling the full cost because you're paying cash for this thing.

I'm not sure I would do it because you could go to Italy anytime.

They're not moving it.

It's still going to be there.

Yeah, I think I'd miss out on the opportunity of having like a group to go with it.

You'd have miss out on the opportunity of having this group.

Correct.

There'll be another group.

I've been several times.

It's still

either on six months of building equity in that home and appreciation as well.

So there's always another side.

Either one's okay,

but don't act like that.

This is, oh, God, there's only one chance.

No, that's not true.

It's not true.

To get to go this particular time at this particular moment with this particular group is going to delay you.

Not, it's my only chance to ever ever get to go.

If I don't go now, they're going to close Italy.

They're not.

They're still going to be there.

Okay, so don't get into that drama mode.

Keep yourself above this like you started the conversation and then you'll make a good decision.

I'm okay if you delay it as long as you do it on purpose and you've weighed out the problem and you did it without a fatalistic thing like they're closing Italy.

They're not.

I'm currently keeping my savings in a C D.

Do you recommend that?

Because before I I just had it in a regular savings account, that's fine.

That's fine.

I would keep it in a high yield.

Probably make as much or more than a CD with no penalties for polling.

So I'd probably look at that.

But yeah.

Is that what you do, Director Should?

I just do high yield savings.

How long is this home goal savings plan?

Is this two years, seven years?

I, at the end of this year, I'll have $100,000 and I can save $36,000 a year.

So I would think it would take me three more years.

Okay, here's the thing.

You said you were saving $36,000 a year?

Yeah.

So that means that this Italy trip is not costing you six months.

That's true.

Like two months.

Well, if you're saving three grand a month,

it's about a two-month delay.

Yes.

So now I can stomach this a little more when I actually put the facts around it and go, okay, it's going to take me two months to save.

That's also very impressive.

So

I think you need to go.

Yeah, so honestly, I have all this money saved.

Yeah, I think I would go.

I'm planning honestly because of you, Dave, because I started listening to you like four years ago.

Yeah, but I think I would go.

I think the trade-off is not bad at all.

Okay.

If this was consumer debt, baby step two, we'd say, no, you need to be intense.

But you've moved from intense to intentional once you get out of baby step three.

And you've done that so well.

So we're not here to tell you don't go on vacation.

You're not broke.

You just need to be okay with the trade-off.

And maybe you make up the difference.

And you go, you know what?

I'm going to work a side gig to make up that six grand over the next year so so that I don't feel as guilty about it.

You do you, but I just make peace with whatever decision you make.

Okay, so you have made really good decisions.

I want to recap only one part of the conversation, okay?

The one thing everyone needs to avoid, including Dave, is the idea that there's only one time to do something.

There's this one tiny opportunity.

And if I miss that, That's almost never true.

Might be true of a wedding.

You might miss the wedding or something like that, Okay.

That's possible.

But, you know, a group going to Italy, there's not only one time in your life.

You can go a lot of different times and you might find a group you like better later.

It's possible.

So you don't want to trap yourself into this one-time thinking because that adds drama to this and it adds too much

weight to the Italy trip.

The Italy trip is not a bad idea and a two-month delay in your home purchase, especially as good a job as you've done overall, because you're like killing it, girl.

I mean, you're doing really good.

I'm so proud of you.

Given all of that, I think you should go.

If it was me in your shoes, I would go.

You know how rare Dave Ramsey green lights, a trip to Italy for $7,000, Taylor?

You just hit the jackpot.

Just go.

No, I mean, it's where she is.

She's there.

Don't you think?

She's done such a job.

She's impressive.

Yeah, most people that want to go to Italy are whining and they're going to put it on credit and we have to talk them off a ledge.

We're trying to convince Taylor to go because of how good of a job she's done.

Well, she's going to go.

And if it delayed the house house purchase by a year, I'd say, whoa, that's a lot.

Two months, she's going to be right there and she'll probably get a raise as hard of a worker as she is and make up the difference.

Yeah.

But this all comes down to opportunity cost.

We talk about this a lot.

What is it going to cost me?

If I go buy that car, that means I can't fund this retirement account.

And so you just got to weigh the options.

None of these are bad things.

Trade-off.

If you spend all your money on interior decorating or purses or guns or whatever it is you spend all your money on, then you don't have any money.

It's kind of a math thing.

Or travel.

It's kind of a math thing.

I will tell you guys this.

Sharon and I are at this stage these days to where we are really enjoying living like no one else on the travel stuff.

And

we've always done some travel.

always throughout our lives, you know, except when we were broke, broke.

But I mean, once we got to where we could afford it, we've always done some.

But

now we're at the stage to where the live like no one else thing is kicking in, and I strongly advise that you, you know, it's one of the benefits of working your tail end off and saving is so that you can go enjoy some of it.

And

that's for after you're baby step seven, you know, you're moving on, live like no one else and give like no one else so that later you can live like no one else and give like no one else.

So, but but if you if you blow it all and say, well, you know, I'm 24 and I have to go to London.

No, you don't.

London's going to be there.

They're not closing it.

It doesn't close up.

What's that FOMO and the friends and the pressure?

And I'm going to miss out.

And I'll see the Instagram posts.

If you do what your broke friends do, guess what you're going to get?

Broke.

That's it.

Pretty simple.

I'd pursue the Jomo and said, the joy of missing out.

Because you know, you've got your plan.

You've got your goals.

You're doing you.

Yeah.

I think Taylor's going to Italy and she's going to enjoy it.

Send us some photos, Taylor.

I think she's going to buy a really nice house when she gets back, by the way.

Both and both are possible when you follow the Ramsey plan.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 14:25:

A truthful witness saves lives, but one who breathes out lies is deceitful.

That seems redundant to me.

If you breathe out lies, of course you're deceitful.

Sometimes the obvious must be stated.

Back in the Bible days,

I may have to go look up a different version to make sure I understand that scripture, because apparently I don't understand it.

A truthful witness saves lives.

Now, I do understand that.

Because like when when you tell somebody the truth on this show, sometimes it sounds harsh.

Yep.

Like, that's not abuse.

That's stupid.

But we're trying to save you.

But you're, you know, that saves lives because then

we get to the bottom of what's really going on, right?

Rupert Murdoch said, I'm not an economist, and we all know economists were created to make weather forecasters look good.

That's good.

My line, Rupert, is weather forecasters and economists are the only two people that can be wrong most of the time and still keep their jobs.

That's my line.

So true.

But I've been using that one for a long time on Fox and other things.

They're like, Dave, what do you think the economy is going to do?

I'm like, oh, weather forecaster.

I don't know.

That and talking heads, which are economists.

There we go.

There we go.

There, there are those.

Brian is in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Hey, Brian, what's up?

Hey, Dave, how are you doing?

I'm $20,000 in credit card debt.

I am currently renting, and I'd like to pay that off and save for a home.

Good.

And I don't know where to start.

Well, getting rid of the debt would be a great start.

What do you make?

So take home after taxes for my job is

about $4,700.

Did you say $2,700?

$2,700 for my job, and then I get about $2,000 a month in VA disability for a total of $4,700.

Thank you for your service.

Well, I appreciate that.

Thank you.

What caused the $20,000 in credit card debt?

I was unemployed last year and kind of blew through my savings and was living like I had a job on a credit card and savings, and it's caught up to me.

And I'm treading water with my floaties on, but if they pop, I'm kind of.

Are you single and 26?

Excuse me?

Are you single and 26?

I'm not married.

I live with my girlfriend.

Okay, so you're single, and how old are you?

Yeah, 30.

Okay, I got close.

Okay.

All right.

Is this split up amongst a bunch of credit cards?

It's currently on two credit cards that are almost maxed out.

What's coming out of your check?

Right now,

about $510 a month.

I have a Discover card that I've put a hold on.

What's coming out of your check?

Taxes, health insurance?

Oh, yes, 401k,

401k, all that stuff.

So you got money going into 401k?

Yes, sir.

I'm at a new job.

How much is going into the 401k?

The bare minimum that they

automatically signed you up for, 3%.

Automatically signed me up for right now.

Yes, sir.

And then every year they do a profit share at the end of the year.

That's real nice if you weren't broke.

Okay.

Yeah.

So we're going to stop the 401k.

Okay.

And we're going to take anything else out of that check except health insurance and taxes and make sure you have the right amount of taxes and the right amount of health insurance and everything else needs to come home.

We're going to get on a detailed written budget.

And you're going to increase our income.

So, what can you do to make more than $2,700 a month?

Well, I'm in a sales job, so I do have some commission that comes in.

Great.

What are you selling?

Construction supplies.

Great.

Awesome.

Because it's getting ready to boom.

Get ready.

Oh, there's another forecast from The Economist.

Yeah.

All right.

I still think it is, though.

All right.

So we're going to do anything we can to increase our income.

We're going to do anything we can to make the income behave.

We're not going out to eat and we're not going on vacation.

And we've got $4,700 a month, probably closer by the time this is all done to $5,000 a month.

And we need to pay off $20,000.

So $2,000 a month of that $5,000 going to credit card debt, you will be debt-free in 10 months.

Okay.

How much is your car payment?

I don't have a car payment.

I've got a paid-off vehicle.

That was a trick question.

Okay.

What were you getting ready to say, sir?

I interrupted you.

I've got a paid-off vehicle and a company truck, but that vehicle is about to need some maintenance

about $1,000 in labor.

I've got all the parts.

Good, good.

That's not a problem.

Okay.

So, how much can you throw at the debt currently based on your expenses?

How much margin do you have?

Do you have 2,000 you could throw at it?

Once I rein it in,

yes, at the end of the month I do.

My current problem is my finances are kind of skewed because I

guess I would call myself head of household.

I pay the rent at the beginning of the month and then my brother and my girlfriend pay me as they get paid.

later on.

So I come out of pocket pretty heavy on the first.

They need to get ahead of that and they need to pay their part on the first i know you're the landlord you set the rules payments come in on the first that's it i know yeah um they're pretty typically pretty good about it but because i am in a little bit better position um you're not in a better position you're deeply in debt you maxed out two credit cards yeah i don't want to know what their situation is if that makes you look good But we got to clean this up fast, and I'm thinking this takes less than 10 months if you get serious about it.

You cut some expenses, you increase that income, this debt is gone.

I want you to list your debts, smallest to largest, the credit cards.

What's the smallest credit card?

About 10 grand.

10?

Yes.

You only owe 20.

Well, the next credit card's 11 grand, give or take.

So you have two?

I have two.

Two credit cards, yes.

Okay.

Okay.

All right, so we're going to attack the 10 grand, two grand a month, five months it's gone.

That frees up that payment.

So apply that plus all the margin you were throwing at it to the next credit card.

That one's gone another five months or less.

Does that mean I stopped paying?

No, you pay minimum payments is all.

Interest rate is not your problem.

Your problem is cash flow.

And so we're going to get all the cash we can pile up every single month by tightening everything down to nothing.

No going out to eat, no vacations, no luxuries.

You have a freaking mess you're cleaning up, and you're very intense and intentional.

When you do that, you will get out of debt.

You cannot fix this with math.

It's not a math problem.

It's a sacrifice, live on beans and rice, rice and beans problem.

Can I,

one question for you.

What if I was to balance transfer all of that and then really hammer that one card?

It don't matter.

Same outcome.

Yeah.

Yeah, because

the interest rate over 10 months on this is not relevant.

The actual interest, okay, let me show you what I'm talking about, okay?

10%

in a year on $20,000 is $2,000.

Okay?

You're not going to be in there a year.

You're going to be in there an average of a half a year.

And so we're talking about $1,000 in interest.

$1,000 does not fix a $20,000 problem.

And worse, that balance transfer will cost you 3% to 5% of the balance and make you think you actually did something.

Where you get comfortable and you go, well, it's 0% now, so I can kind of take my time with it.

I want you to feel a fire when there's 29% APR on that card.

You're going, I got to get out of this and never touch it again.

I want you to sell so much stuff the kids think they're next, the dog is hiding, and your roommate's considering moving out.

That's your girlfriend, so that's extra awkward.

Yeah.

I mean, you're really, you need to get with it and roll up your sleeves and get pissed off about this and get rid of this debt.

And when you do it, when you get that kind of attitude about it, the math quits mattering.

If you're going to keep the debt for five years, then I can't help you, but a balanced transfer might.

But that's a dumb way to do this because you're going to be in debt the rest of your life screwing around with it.

Instead, this incredible focused intensity, like you're running for your life, and then you cut up these stupid cards and you never touch them again for anything.

That'll get you out of debt and keep you out of debt, sir.

George and I will sign you up for every dollar, including Financial Peace University, and we're going to put you in there and show you how to handle this.

And then if the girlfriend becomes a wife, it'll become a good thing.

And the two of you can learn to work together at that point.

Until then, you're not working together.

You have a roommate, and that's

better.

Keep everything separate, brother.

You're going to have a problem if you don't.

That puts this Hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.