Don’t Let Other People’s Opinions Derail Your Future

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love,

and create actual, amazing relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey personality, PhD in counseling, host of the Dr.

John Deloney Show and number one best-selling author.

He's my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Hannah's in Fort Wayne, Indiana.

Hi, Hannah.

How are you?

Hi, I'm good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So my question is, is I am 24 years old and I would consider myself actively dating and I've been on many dates with guys that are well-established, and they make good money, and they're nice, but I haven't really liked any of them.

But I just met a boy, and I got, I'm smitten with him.

I like him a lot,

but he does make significantly less, and he has significantly less than me.

And I have some goals that I would like to like make for my future.

So I guess, can I choose maybe to not be with somebody because of their finances?

All my friends say, you know, money isn't everything,

but it is something.

No, money is not everything.

And financial instability is

not a deal killer.

Financial instability, though, is not the problem.

It's the symptom.

And what you're worried about is the problem that's causing his underperformance and his instability.

And if he's irresponsible, lazy, impulsive, immature, those are reasons not to date someone.

But if he's a school teacher and he makes 50 grand and you make 200 and you're like, I need, then I would say you don't deserve him.

So it kind of depends on where you're coming from.

Okay.

So

he is just getting here.

He's been here for two years.

He's just what?

He moved here from Venezuela two years ago

so he sends a lot of his money to his family he works really hard

but he sends a lot of his money and pays for his sister's school and

that would not be unusual for someone that gets to come to America legally and has a family in an area that is not as blessed a lot of people send a lot of money back home and And is that also what attracts you to him?

Is that he's so generous and kind and he's hardworking?

He is very generous.

He's very kind.

He's handsome.

I like him a lot.

And probably the things that you love about him are what's driving you crazy.

That's just called being in a relationship with somebody.

Yeah.

So I think what you've got to decide is, because he's not going to stop

helping his family

in another country because of you.

No matter how much he says he is, it's not going to happen.

So are you going to make peace with that and are you able to go forward?

Okay?

Because he's not, and I'm not saying whether he should or shouldn't.

I'm happy that he's generous, but it also,

you know,

an American view of that is different than a Hispanic view of that, a Latino view of that, because Latinos do a much better job of taking care of extended family than Americans do.

Americans are like, you're 18, hit the road, good luck.

Right?

Right.

And I hope you make it.

And that was kind of like my dad, right?

Just kick me out, right?

And it's like, swim, boy, because you're going to drown if you don't, kind of thing.

But that's not true in that culture that he's coming from.

In that culture, he is duty bound by everything that is in his DNA.

his cultural DNA to support the family back home.

He's not going to stop.

And that means he's a person of honor in his culture.

But in our culture, we might call that irresponsible if he doesn't first take care of his own household.

Yeah.

And neither one are right or wrong.

It's just a viewpoint.

Yeah.

I worked like hard to get to where I'm at.

So

I'm like really conflicted with it.

All my friends like him.

But hold on, hold on.

Here's what you have to be careful of.

Don't posit yourself as better than him.

Yeah.

It's just different.

No, he works really hard, but it is very different.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But he doesn't keep anything.

He sends it all to Venezuela.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or some of it to Venezuela, just not as much as you want him to have.

So if you'd rather have a number

over a person of character.

No, I think you can have both.

You could just choose to have a person that is more aligned culturally with you and is not going to send all their money to their mom.

You get to decide that.

You know, and

I'll say this, just in a dating, just because it hurts doesn't mean it's not the right thing.

So just because you'll be sad that this one doesn't work out because your values don't align doesn't mean it's not the right move.

But it doesn't mean you're shallow and you're choosing money.

It just says I'm so uncomfortable with these differences that I can't get along.

I'm not, and I'm not, and I don't have a reasonable expectation they're going to shift.

Yeah, I won't, yeah.

And so he's not a project.

He's a person.

We're not going to hope we change him.

God help.

Don't do that one.

And so, you know, I think you've got to get comfortable with who he is as a part of your, and develop

a new life plan that includes both ways of doing things in one household.

And if you can do that, then it's not a number, you know, and so forth.

But you're just recognizing that it's not going to be the way you had it dreamed, the way you had it plotted out as you walk down the aisle.

And, you know, it's also okay, and it doesn't make you shallow or wrong to say, I can't do this.

Absolutely.

And that will still hurt.

Yeah.

Because she she likes him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I don't think you can juxtapose it with the only guys I'm going to fall in love with are guys that are this way versus the guys that are predictable.

That's not true either.

No.

That's not true either.

I had the same sandwich today.

We were laughing about it in the cafe because when I walk up, they start making it.

And it's like, you know, predictable is not bad.

Okay.

It's not doesn't make you a bad human being.

And, you know, you want an environment where you're predicting things.

And that's a normal safety mechanism that we all have.

And so I probably ought to branch out on my sandwich joy.

And I was going to say, when over the course of my marriage, especially when I was into every fad diet possible, my wife, at the beginning of every month, she'd say, hey, what are we this month?

And I was like, Raw V.

And she's like, oh, God, okay.

And then the next month, she's like, what are we this month?

And she would make it a go.

She'd give it a run.

And she loves that we're a little bit more consistent now.

A little bit less.

Boring is not bad

especially when it comes to stuff like that consistency can

you listen don't reduce this to a an argument over

um that you're all about money it's not that shallow It's that the inconsistent instability that this represents, you're not about.

And that's okay.

Don't reduce it to my set of values are better than yours.

Like Dave said perfectly, like it.

I just don't lie.

In his culture, he has been a person of honor.

And in your culture, you are being a person of honor.

And y'all have to decide: can we come together here?

Or

these are just two big value ships going past each other in the night.

And we got to meet each other and we had some great dates.

And you're a wonderful guy.

And you're a wonderful girl.

And we're going to move on.

Yep.

And y'all get to decide that.

Yep.

Yeah.

You know what makes a summer party great?

Good friends, cold drinks, and great food.

But you know what can bring the party down?

Spending way too much money to make it all happen.

And that's why I get my summertime grocery hauls at Aldi.

They've got USDA choice meats, fresh organic produce, and all the stuff you need for an epic or low-key backyard barbecue without breaking the bank.

There's no better feeling than good eats at low prices.

So stop paying more and shop at Aldi, where they have the lowest prices of any national grocery store.

Find a store near you at Aldi.us.

That's A-L-D-I.us.

Savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors.

Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market.

Alex is in Canada.

Hey, Alex, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, David.

Thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure.

What's up?

Yeah, so I have a quick question.

So

a bit of a background.

So I work or worked as a digital product manager for the last eight plus years, just within like the tech industry.

Unfortunately, in the beginning of March, our company did a bunch of layoffs, and

I was a part of that cut.

And so as of March, I have been unemployed

looking for work.

And in the meantime, we've been living off of our savings.

We don't have any sort of big payments like car payments or anything like that.

Why aren't you freelancing?

If you're a digital project manager, you ought to be covered up in freelance work.

That has not been the case for me.

I've been applying, doing my best to find work, but

it just hasn't been working out for me to find it.

I mean, how are your buddies that are freelancing getting work as a freelance?

I'm not talking about a new job.

I'm talking about just freelancing.

Right.

So

my specialty is product management.

So I helped companies develop software and scale some of their products.

So usually it's not necessarily freelance.

It would be

anywhere from like a year plus a gig to get those.

So

there are very few short-term freelance gigs for product management that I've been able to come across.

Okay.

I wouldn't doubt that.

That does.

We've got because we've got digital project managers on our team here, and I know what they do.

I'm not arguing that point.

So yeah, you're right.

It's not like you're

a short-term project where you're writing code or something because that's not what you do.

All right.

Okay.

So on to your question.

I got your picture.

You're struggling finding work.

I got it.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So in the meantime, as mentioned, we've been living off of savings in Canada.

We have things like employment insurance here, but I've been also helping do random jobs for folks like house pressure washing, floating dock installations and so forth.

Just

kind of keep me going.

Now, there is this gentleman that I came across and I've been helping him with floating dock installations.

He is 74 years old.

He's been running a business for 16 years now and he is looking to retire and sell that business.

So I thought it might be a good idea for me to look into acquiring that business.

I've done several dock installations.

Like it's not necessarily rocket science.

Nope.

And

Yeah, he, as mentioned, he's 74.

He doesn't do any sort of outside marketing.

All of the leads that he gets are from the actual manufacturer or folks who find

the manufacturer online.

They fill out a form.

He's a regional dealer here in Canada.

And so he just gets all of his incoming leads through those forms.

So he doesn't do any personal Google ads or any sort of forms of advertising.

And so with a digital background, I'm thinking of ways how this could scale and how I could use my skills to scale the business.

You want to talk to him or about buying it.

I got it.

Okay.

So what are we going to do?

So he initially wants

$300,000 for the business.

The business is net profiting annually in around $100,000 a year.

After he pays himself a salary?

No, so he is an owner-operator.

Okay, I know, but I mean, some owner-operators have enough sense to pay themselves a salary, so he's not.

Okay.

All right.

And so he's not really netting $100K because if he paid a manager to do the work that he's doing,

he'd be netting 50 or 40.

Correct.

Yes.

Yeah.

It's not worth 300.

Okay.

So that was my initial thought process as well.

Yeah.

And so

I've brought it up to him, but I talked to him about potentially

acquiring the business through a seller financing,

which he seemed initially open to, but because after he talked to his wife, because he's 74, he's kind of driving driving into the sunset basically,

he wants a certain amount up front, like $100,000 up front.

Which is probably about all the whole thing's worth anyway.

Which was my guess as well.

So I currently do not have the funds to give him even $100K for the business, right?

Because I do not want to put my family into any further financial uncertainty.

But you don't have the money anyway.

And I don't have the money anyway, right?

Yeah.

And he doesn't want to do 100% seller financing.

So I was speaking to my parents, and they offered to, they are in the process of selling one of their properties overseas in Eastern Europe.

And so they offered to sell that property and give

some of that money towards acquiring this business should the seller and I

reach a deal.

And so I wanted to get get

not 100 grand.

It would be about 50,000.

So where are you going to get the other 50,000?

You don't have it.

I don't have it.

And so this is where I would either need to come up with some creative way with the seller or negotiate with him on the down payment.

That's not a down payment.

It's a payment.

A down payment implies that there's a balance left.

If you put 50 down and he finances 50, that's fine, but that's a long way from 300 300 and him riding off in an RV.

Correct.

I don't think you're getting this deal.

You're too far apart on price and terms.

And your parents are giving you this money.

It's not alone.

Oh, you just lied.

Okay.

Here's my worry for you, brother.

There are some strings attached to it, yes.

Yeah, no, there's too much desperation in this.

As soon as I get desperate, I get stupid.

And you're pushing this from every corner of the table to make this tablecloth fit, and it's not going to fit.

So

I liked where we were going in general.

And I love the fact that you're willing to do anything to try to feed your family from pressure washing to loading dock installs to freelance to getting another job to anything.

But let's don't get too desperate to be in the loading dock business.

to where we've got people pulling us from every side.

We've got the former owners pulling us.

We got mama pulling us.

Everybody's pulling our hair out.

We're going to be bald, man.

Don't do it.

What stops you from just starting this on your own?

He doesn't have all the dealership connections.

Okay.

This guy owns the territory.

He owns the territory, correct.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's harder.

But, I mean, you can go build decks on the backs of houses or something.

Alex, I'm going to tell you this.

Be careful when you have to force something from every corner of the table to make it work.

There's nothing in this entire story that was a hot knife through butter.

There's, you know, you got

stuff coming at you from every angle telling you not to do this.

And that's not just God challenging you.

It's Him telling you, don't do it.

There's a difference.

And my fear for you, Alex, you have already done the digital marketing math in your head, and you have already spent the money that you think you will make on top of this business.

No, you don't pay somebody for what you might grow it to.

You pay them for what it is.

And right now, it is a business that's worth somewhere around $150, $200K max, not $300,000.

And

he's not got any other buyers.

I don't care what his wife thinks.

Dave,

I'm asking you this, and you should be asking me, but I'm asking you, what is the psychology behind?

So let's say this guy says I make $100,000.

And

Alex here says, man, if I digitally market this, I can scale it and do this and this and this, I can make $500,000 next year.

If he doesn't do this deal, his mind and body will feel like he just lost half a million dollars.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, it's just FOMO.

It's just fear missing out.

That's all it is.

But there's this weird thing in our heads that we make up a number, and if anything less than that number, we feel like we're getting ripped off and we lost it.

And it's just,

you know, it's a strange loss.

You know, one time I put an unrealistic price on a piece of real estate really high.

And then when a guy came in under that, I was like pissed.

He took 500 grand from me.

I was like, no, he didn't.

I was unrealistically priced to start with.

Or if you called me fishing for a California suckerfish.

Hey, John, I'm going to give you a raise.

Come on, my office, and you gave me 100 grand, but in my head I thought I was going to be 200.

I'd be like, that dude took 100 grand from me, did he?

Exactly.

That's so crazy.

So it's a bass ackwards thing, but that's the way it is.

So, no, yeah, honey,

listen, I love business and I love your entrepreneur skills and I love your

work ethic and your willingness to humble yourself and go do whatever it takes to get something going.

You're a good man.

You're going to find something, but don't step up in a bear trap in the process.

And this smells like bear spray to me.

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all.

Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet.

I also discovered that there are a lot of rip-offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity.

What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family.

The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company.

This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Xander Insurance are all about.

They shop the term life companies to find you the best options, and they've been around for over 95 years.

So you know they'll be there when you need them.

Xander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years.

I trust them, and you can too.

Visit Xander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call call at 800-356-4282.

Brian is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Hey, Brian, what's up?

Pretty good.

Thank y'all for taking the call.

Sure, man.

How can we help?

Appreciate it.

So I was wondering your opinion on if I should work a part-time job whenever I start college this fall.

I have about $40,000 saved up, and I didn't know if I should just use the savings or try to make a little bit of money on the side.

What do you want to do?

I actually don't know, to be honest with you, Dave.

You don't know what you want to do, or you don't know what you should do?

I don't know what I should do.

What do you want to do?

So I want to work part-time probably about like 15 or 20 hours a week.

Okay.

Doing what?

Probably waiting tables or some kind of job like at Walmart.

So you enjoy just earning money?

Yes, sir.

Yeah, you've grown up in a house where your dad and mom taught you to work.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

Well, John's got a PhD in higher education as a former dean of students, so I'll let him chime in.

Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, dude,

you're going to get conflicting data from all over the places.

I would strongly recommend you start practicing the thing that you think you want to do one day.

And so what are you going to college college for?

So, I'm going to college for accounting and risk management.

Okay, get a job in a local bank as a teller part-time.

Or an accounting firm as an intern.

Even if you're answering the phones at a local accountant's office, you're going to hear stories.

You're going to see how the room flows.

You're going to find out if you want to be a part of this world for the rest of your life.

And by the way, whatever you get out of college doing, you won't be doing for the rest of your life.

That's me being dramatic.

But the number of students, let me like, I was a part of a college of education.

They used to do student teaching your senior year in college.

And the number of students who would take all their education courses, get all the way to the end, do their first round of student teaching, and realize, oh, I hate kids.

And it's too late, right?

You got three and a half years of college.

So they moved it to where you have to have classroom experience with young people, with kids, before we're going to take your money for the next four years, which was awesome and integris for that department.

But you start being around this world in whatever way you can.

And let me tell you,

my best friends on planet Earth is a senior leader at a big bank.

He'll tell you, I would much rather somebody who knows how a bank works, because when you sit down here to do risk management at our bank or a cost accounting, he would rather hire someone who knows how a bank works because he's going to teach you how to do his balance sheets.

Right.

And so

I would suggest, yes, start getting practical real-life experience adjacent to the thing that you think you want to do.

That's a great, great answer.

I would also just say, yes, work

because an employer likes to see someone that knows how to do more than just go to school.

When we're hiring someone, we don't hire a lot of people straight out of college at Ramsey.

We hire a few here and there.

But when we do, we very seldom would hire someone that didn't work because I don't want to have to teach them to work.

I ain't got time for that.

You got to already know how to do that before you get here.

And some of these people, you know, they got confused.

They were born on third base, thought they hit a triple.

And so it's good if you've been working on something ahead of time.

Let me tell you another weird thing.

And I'm sure there's a psychological trope to this.

Your body, and I say that not being cheesy, what feels busy to you will be established pretty early.

So if you just go say, I'm going to live the first semester off my savings, and I'm just going to go get the feel of college.

I'm going to take my 15 hours and I'm going to go to the join an intermurial team, which again, I think that's important too.

But like I'm going to go do these things.

You're going to feel busy.

And then second semester comes and you want to add a part-time job.

You're going to start to ask, I don't even know where to put this.

But if you start with a part-time job and one of the things you do after move-in and after freshman orientation is you go find a job at a local place and you start working, your body will adapt to what is busy.

And you will begin to make things work.

And you already have savings.

So I can already tell you're not afraid to work and you're a good thinker and you're a good doer.

So go ahead and go out of the gate, man.

And you can always back off, but it's much harder when you already feel busy to add something else to it.

Good point.

So the answer to your question is yes, work part-time.

And an even better answer to the question is work part-time in the field that you think you're going to move towards.

Or somewhere close, right?

Yeah.

Something where you'd get, you know, it's different.

I mean, if you're going to be in banking, don't be waiting tables if you've got the option.

Waiting tables, not bad, though.

But if you're going to be in the restaurant business, certainly do that.

But, you know, just figure out where we're going in general and aim at that.

Try to land in there.

But if nothing else, wait tables.

That's okay too.

So the data that we had when we were doing the

student loan

documentary that we did, the debacle called Borrowed Future,

the student loan debacle.

The documentary wasn't a debacle.

It was number one documentary.

And you can still watch it out there on YouTube for free, folks.

But one of the things we found, there is data that says that there's a higher probability of graduating in four years when you're paying for some or all of it, not with student loans out of your pocket, and if you're working.

And that student athletes who hold down what is a full-time job as a student athlete in the NCAA

and go to school and graduate in four years have a work ethic far beyond the guy who majors in beer pong.

And so same thing with student athletes, same thing with somebody working.

And so our point was is that you can work and earn enough to go to a state school while working.

You can stay full-time and work full-time.

And here's where

you don't have to do that in your case.

Well, and Dave, this is awesome.

I love this conversation.

There is data that says if you work,

it may have an adverse, it may impact negatively, a tiny bit, your GPA.

If you have a full-time job, if you have a part-time job where you're very, very busy.

But.

The goal of the human

of going to college is not to maximize, I don't think.

I think it's to come out having learned and prepared and be ready to enter the workforce and go get them, is not to see how high you can get your GPA.

And so we used to have a joke among my buddies who were running businesses and hiring that I will take off the top, the 4.0s because I'm just going to assume you didn't live in college, right?

And that was a joke.

And of course, we didn't hold to that.

If I have to hire somebody who has a 4.0 who's never had a job, they just went to class all day, and somebody has a 3.56 and worked full-time and got their butt out of college in four years, I'm going to hire them every day to Sunday because I know that they can handle a whole bunch of stuff coming in at the same time and get their work done and provide.

And

they have a work ethic.

That's right.

So go get that stuff done, man.

Go get it.

Great question.

The answer is yes.

I'd work while you're in school.

I wouldn't make it mandatory for somebody, but if you're asking if you should, Brian, I think you should.

Yes.

Bryce is in Huntsville.

Hey, Bryce, what's up in your world?

Hey, thanks for talking with me today.

Sure.

How can we help?

So I'm 22 years old.

I just graduated college with my master's in IT field.

I worked all through college.

I'm on BabyStep 3B,

and I'm in a long distance relationship saving up for an engagement ring, slash what I'll call import taxes, since my girlfriend's not from around here.

And my question is, is how should I prioritize

saving for a house, engagement and retirement?

And

should I do that all at once?

Should I consider bumping up to my 15%

and saving for those other things or just keep it where I'm at now?

What are you making?

So I'm salaried, I make 88%, and I get pretty much guaranteed bonuses of about 17.

So a little over 100.

Yeah.

Very good.

Straight out of school.

Congratulations.

Well done.

And I suspect that's probably on its way up.

It's not going to stay there very long, right?

That's correct.

Yeah.

I would say your first priority is don't ever

call your girlfriend an import tax again.

I would just start there.

Just because I love you, man.

I would just not do that

on a national podcast that everybody listens to.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Work could get back.

And then you would be not having a girlfriend.

So there you go.

You wouldn't have to get rid of that problem.

Yeah.

All right.

One less issue.

All right.

So

I think on the short term, if you didn't do anything

intellectually stimulating, like long-term investing in any of that, on the short term, if you just piled up some cash to start your life over the next year, that wouldn't hurt anything.

You're already debt-free.

If you pile up some cash for a down payment, a wedding, a ring, and that's all you do for one year,

that's not bad.

That's a big win.

It's not bad.

That keeps you out of debt on any of those things.

And then if you want to start adding, if you think you're hitting those goals pretty easily and you want to add some long-term investing now because you're at baby step four uh but if you just piled up cash for an entire year for wedding ring wedding a ring and the import tax and

and i just can't even say that and um the uh and and whatever the other thing was the house oh my god yeah you're gonna be okay unless he gets struck by lightning first

ouch

Let's be real.

Buying your first home can feel like reading IKEA instructions upside down.

It's confusing and stressful, and you have no idea if that cam bolt is supposed to go there.

And if you try and buy a home with some click-and-go lender, well, good luck, because you're just another line on their spreadsheet.

So here's the thing: when I was buying my home, I didn't want to just be a loan number.

I wanted a relationship with a real person, someone who was willing to answer all of my questions along the way and understood my goal of paying off my mortgage fast.

And that's why I love Churchill Mortgage.

They don't rush you.

They don't try to sell you more house than you need.

They listen.

They walk with you step by step and offer guidance so that you understand what you can actually afford.

So they teach you how to do it the right way so that you have margin and peace with the goal of becoming completely debt-free.

So if you want rock-solid advice on how to buy a home the right way, connect with a Churchill Loan Specialist today at churchillmortgage.com.

That's churchillmortgage.com.

This is a paid advertisement: NMLS ID 1591, NMLS ConsumerAccess.org, Equal Housing Lender.

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and you're feeling like you can't get ahead, you need to join one of our free every dollar trainings.

We're going to show you how to handle money, folks.

These are new trainings every week, and they're hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities.

So that would be Jade or George or Rachel.

We'll be there.

We're going to show you how to stick to a budget, how to put one together.

And you're on average, people find $9,000 worth of margin using every dollar.

That means you can make that kind of movement almost like a head start kind of thing.

Yeah.

So check that out.

It's free.

It's everydollar.com slash webinar.

And there's QA that's live too, which is kind of like being on the show in a way, right?

So everydollar.com slash webinar, it's free.

We're doing them all the time with Ramsey personalities.

Be sure and check one of them out immediately.

Amy's in Spokane.

Hi, Amy.

How are you?

I'm good.

How are you?

Thanks for having me.

Sure.

How can we help?

Okay, So I have a bit of a situation.

So currently I'm a teacher and I make about like $56,000 a year.

Recently I applied to work with my state as a service coordinator.

So I wouldn't be really leaving my field completely.

It's still working with kids.

But it pretty much doubles my salary, which is fantastic.

It's anywhere from $90,000 to $106,000.

a year depending on how many is on my caseload but the problem i'm running into is it's a contract position, so it's a 1099 and not a W-2.

So I have to do my own taxes.

There's no benefits and there's no retirement whatsoever.

So I'm just curious.

One, do I accept this job?

I haven't even offered it, but I'm thinking way ahead.

I've had the interview.

It went well.

Do I accept this job?

And if I do accept it,

how do I save for retirement?

I'm so used to having my 401k that I don't know what to do.

Good for you.

Good questions.

You accept the job if it takes you to where you want to be in 10 years regardless of benefits.

Where you want to be in 20 years, regardless of benefits.

Because you can buy your own health insurance, which you'll have to do.

You can fund your own Roth IRA and even do what's called a simple 401k, which is an IRA for, or a simple IRA, which is a 401k for small businesses.

You can do both of those.

So you'll easily be able to adequately fund your retirement, buy your health insurance.

And, of course, you're going to pay ⁇ you're already paying one side of your taxes.

Now you just get to pay the other.

So you have a 7%, 7.63 increase in your taxes because you're going to pay both sides.

You get a 15.3% self-employment tax versus your employer matches half of that if you're a W-2.

Okay?

So

you're going to lose $7,000 there.

You're going to lose another $7,000 on

health insurance.

And the retirement that you had wasn't 100% pension anyway.

It was a 401k with the state.

So you were getting a match.

You were having to put something in there anyway.

So you're really not losing anything much there except maybe a little bit of match, but I wouldn't worry about that.

The point is, though, that you're making a lot more money.

You're free.

And

you're not under the illusion that somehow the state is going to take care of all my needs, which when you start talking about benefits, that's kind of what's happening in your spirit.

You know what I'm saying?

Right.

And this is this, I I get to create my own hours and I have like a job that I want to start on the side, like my own personal side business.

Ding, ding.

Yeah.

You got to do this.

You got to do it.

But you need to meet with an insurance pro and get with the folks we recommend here at Ramsey.

They'll help you put the health insurance in place, health trust, they're called.

And you need to meet with your smart or your smartvestor pro in here.

You can find them at ramseysolutions.com and get your IRA started.

And if you want to do more than a Roth IRA

into retirement, which you should probably do more than that, if you're out of debt, that is.

And then

you can do also the simple IRA, which is a 401k for small businesses.

And you might even look at a SEP.

There's two or three things you can do there that are easy.

They're not hard.

And they'll be able to explain it to you in one meeting and you'll understand it.

But you've got to buy health insurance and you got to get your retirement set up.

And you need to set up to with you probably ought to meet with your tax preparer and automatically start setting aside money for taxes as well out of each check.

Right.

Okay.

So it doesn't sneak up on you, right?

Right.

Yeah.

Definitely not.

Because in the second year, you're required to do quarterly estimates, so you might as well do them in the first year.

And it, because it helps you withhold.

So you just say, okay, each quarter I have to pay a fourth of my income tax.

And so you just start setting money out of each check to do that with.

And it keeps it from sneaking up on you.

So you've got to do a little bit of book work.

You kind of got to manage your life a little more, not be managed by the state.

But

none of this is really that, it's not intellectually straining.

It's just a matter of setting up some systems in place that automatically come out of your checking account.

So you're, you're funding your retirement, you're funding your health insurance and that kind of stuff.

So write it down.

It's health trust.

Our guys will help you put your health insurance in place.

They're not any trouble at all.

They're an advertiser.

We endorse them.

And the same thing with the Smart Vestor Pro.

You can find them one in your area.

Sit down with them.

They'll help you get your retirement stuff going.

And if you want a tax pro, you can find them too at Ramsey and Ramseysolutions.com.

And they'll help you set up your quarterly withholding.

And that's how you do it.

Because now basically you're self-employed.

That's what contract means.

I just, Amy, I want to challenge you to, when this episode drops, I want you to go back and listen to yourself describe this new job.

Because you did a great job peeling the math back, but listening to her explaining,

dude, this is the job for you.

It's perfect.

She lit up.

Yeah.

If I were hiring you to do that job, the way your eyes lit up and we didn't even see them would cause me to hire you.

Get that?

Yeah.

I want somebody on fire like that doing a job over here at Ramsey.

Yeah, you'll get this job.

It's like, oh, yeah.

Yeah, just let me at it.

Put me in, coach.

I mean, come on.

Yeah, that, and I got to do the sidekick, and I'm going to be where I want to be in 20 years.

Yes, you've got to do this.

Go get it.

And don't ever, folks, let

I'm going to double my salary, but I'm going to lose my benefits.

The answer to that is, whoo!

It's not, oh, God, okay?

It's no.

People get, they become slaves to benefits.

That's why companies offer them because some people place too high a value on things that mathematically don't have that much value.

It's convenience.

I want someone else to take care of this for me.

Well, and it's this idea of having a babysitter.

You know, I've got somebody that, you know, I don't have to think about it.

And so somebody taking care of me.

It's a, you don't, you know, and I like the idea of, you know, just being in the real world.

So it's a good thing, very good thing.

Jared's in Salt Lake City.

Hi, Jared.

What's up?

Hey, how are you guys?

Great.

How can we help?

Just really quick, I've been listening to you for years.

My son is in business classes, and he has totally taken on the Ramsey Doctrine.

I think there's a picture of you in his living room, actually.

Bless his heart.

He needs to get some heart.

He should call my show because that's not well.

Right.

So I've been kind of dabbling, not dabbling, but I've been diving deep myself for about the last three weeks.

I got Baby Steps Millionaires on Audible.

So I think it's kind of...

Jared, I'm going to run out of time.

What's your question?

My question is, Dory,

my girlfriend, we are getting married

here pretty quick.

She's got about $70,000 worth of tax debt from her former marriage.

She's kind of discreet about it.

She's embarrassed about it.

She's an absolute sweetheart.

She doesn't pay their taxes, her or her husband?

Her husband and her both.

Like it was a joint.

Who was filing the taxes?

Her husband was.

Okay.

Investigate, get with a tax professional, preferably even a tax attorney, and investigate what's called the innocent spouse provision.

And that is designed for something that's like this.

Like the husband's running a business and she just signs the returns.

They don't even know what's going on.

And then he screws it up and runs it in the ditch and there's a $70,000 bill.

But she really signed everything and they've married filing jointly, but she didn't really know what was going on.

And

that's what the innocent spouse provisions is about.

And they will release her if she can make that case, and they will go after only him.

Okay.

Yeah, because she was working full-time.

Her and I are both school teachers.

She's been teaching school through the whole work.

Working is not the issue.

The issue is, did she know what the flip was going on, or was he running his own little side gig over here, and she blindly signed it?

Right.

Okay.

That's That's the story.

If that's the narrative, the innocent spouse provision, and get with one of our tax ELPs on ramseysolutions.com, the endorse local providers there for taxes.

They can help you.

And if they can't help you, they'll know who in your market can, and they'll hook you up with a good tax attorney.

It depends on how complicated the case is.

But for $70,000, you could drop $5,000 clearing this up, and it'd be a good investment in attorneys' fees or tax CPA fees.

Either one.

But don't use one of the people off the stupid cable ads.

Get a real pro.

I get it.

Switching banks is a pain in the you-know-what.

But if your bank doesn't line up with your money goals, it's time to make the switch to Fairwinds.

credit union.

Listen, you guys know how I feel about big banks.

They make money when you stay broke, charging you overdraft fees, pushing credit cards, and telling you debt is normal.

And that's why I only work with folks who help you, not just profit off of you.

Fair wins is different.

They're owned by their members.

They're non-profit.

And they share our values.

They even advertise with billboards saying they want their members to be debt-free.

So they built the Smart Checking and Savings Bundle just for Ramsey fans.

You can open your account online in minutes and here's what you get.

Free checking with no minimums and no monthly fees.

Savings with a high APY to help you in baby step one and beyond and a mobile app that actually makes sense.

Plus, you also get access to over 33,000 fee-free ATMs and more than 5,000 affiliated branches.

nationwide.

So don't settle for a bank that slows your progress down.

Choose one that's built to help you win with money.

Go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey and open your smart bundle today.

Fairwinds is federally insured by the NCU.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people

build wealth, do work that you love, and create actual amazing relationships.

Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today.

He's the number one best-selling author, a PhD in counseling, and host of the really popular Dr.

John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks.

Be sure and check him out.

If you want to figure out that your life is really, really good, just listen to some of his callers.

You thought your family was crazy?

I'm just saying you could listen to some of his callers.

You didn't have any idea you were going to be in Jerry Springer.

Listen, there's a few times I get off the show and I drive home and I call my wife and she's, I can tell she's busy doing something.

She's like, what is it?

And I said, I just need you to know we're doing great.

We're doing great.

We're amazing.

We're amazing.

We're doing great.

We're amazing.

Matt's in Hartford, Connecticut.

Hey, Matt, how are you?

Hey, guys.

How are you today?

Better than we deserve.

How can I help?

Yeah, so currently I'm on baby step six paying off my mortgage.

Good.

But if I look at it, I'm currently saving 46% of my income still.

Where did you get that?

We taught you to do that.

Well, you didn't.

You said 15%.

Oh, yeah, that's the part.

Okay.

Wow.

So I guess my question, should I reduce that to the 15%?

Yes.

And just put the rest of it towards the mortgage.

Yes.

okay but you already knew that if i were to do that

i i i did kind of i mean you knew i was gonna say that

i just wanted the validation you know yeah so here's the thing what we discovered when we developed these baby steps a long long time ago is i i got out an old-fashioned thing called a spreadsheet and I ran a whole bunch of possible case studies from a single mom making $25,000 to a doctor making $225,000.

Okay.

And I ran them all down through there and I ran, okay, here's your average house price for that person, average mortgage for that person.

And if they put 15% away, they can still pay off the house in about seven years on average.

If they put 46% away, they can't.

And they end up with a mortgage long term.

And we know that two things create the first $1 to $5 million in net worth.

Once you're debt-free, two things do.

Getting the house paid off is one, and

systematically saving in your 401k is two.

So you're already doing both well.

We just need to adjust the ratio so you get the house knocked out because as soon as the house knocks out, then 46%, if you want to do that, that's perfectly fine.

Okay.

How much do you make, man?

Between me and my wife, we make $190,000, but I'm also retired military.

So I also get another $78,000 between my pension and disability per year.

Yeah, so you're dealing with a quarter million dollars a year.

How much is left on your mortgage?

$243,000.

Oh, you want to be done in no time.

Yeah, dude.

You're going to have your own house.

No one can take from you, man.

And here's the other thing that happens.

That's what thought is.

Yeah, here's the other thing that happens is that we can't quantify.

Even at Ramsey, we don't know what it is.

We have the concept and nobody else sees the concept.

But when you have a paid-for home, something loosens up in your joints, in the way you walk, talk, carry yourself, and you end end up making more money.

It's the weirdest thing because you don't have to put up with bullcrap off everybody anymore.

And so you just start doing the right stuff more often.

There's zero need to be a slave at that point.

And it's hard to grasp exactly what that does.

It's hard to grasp how that affects the divorce statistics to not have a mortgage.

How it affects the generosity statistics, which affects the divorce statistics, which affects...

I mean, all of these things play together because

what we start out with as a math nerd coming up with a way to do stuff like you do, Matt, and I do, because we're both math nerds, we end up realizing that Dr.

John Deloney's world is adding even more value to what we thought was just mathematically plausible.

Yeah.

There's just something about sitting in your house that no one could take from you.

And like it's perfect.

You say that extra thing in the meeting that may be a little bit contrarian, a little bit sharper, and one of the leaders says, I want that person on my team.

Or when your boss says, hey, you're going to do this, and you say, man, I got something with my kid.

I'm not going to miss that.

Can we do this another time?

It just releases everybody.

I don't know.

It's powerful.

I wish we could grasp it.

I'm sure somebody could figure out how to study it.

But, man,

it transforms people's spirits, man.

Well, I mean, the level of anxiety goes down.

The

medications go down.

People want to be around you.

I mean, stress-related illnesses

are, you know, if you map map stress, the increase in stress-related illnesses with the increase in the personal debt load of the average American, they run right together.

But we can't quantify the actual mathematical savings related with not having those stress-related illnesses.

And so, and you know, that's like hypertension, heart attacks, all that kind of crap.

Well, here's the other thing for you, Matt.

You're talking 24 months.

Yeah, it's nightmare.

You're going to get pretty serious and have this house paid off in 24 months.

You're going to be worth $10 or $20 million, depending on how old you are.

If you run the plan out the way we're talking about right here, it's pretty stinking incredible.

Well done, man.

Well done.

I'm proud of you.

That's very cool.

And thanks for serving your country.

Appreciate you.

All right.

Caitlin is with us in Philadelphia.

Hey, Caitlin, what's up?

Hi.

Hey, I was calling.

My husband and I are on Baby Step 2.

We've had a few years of a lot of transitions.

Husband lost a job a couple years ago,

you know, ended up getting some others.

Long story short, last year we made a move.

He's pastor and we moved for a position that would give him probably like the most he's ever made.

We bought a house.

We had sold a house, so we bought a house.

I actually ended up taking a pay cut,

but we've not been super happy.

We've missed where we used to live, and we have an opportunity to move back to where we had been.

And

it doesn't have much room for growth, though.

We live currently outside of a city.

This position will be rural again.

And,

you know, we're really not going to probably ever end up with that.

I don't think you're going to be as happy as you thought you were because you left for those same reasons that are still there.

You have to realize that wherever you move, you and your husband are going to go with you there.

Yeah.

A lot of it, though, is like we're in our 40s already.

We have

teenagers.

They've not been real happy.

You know, but

they're not happy because they're living in a house where their parents aren't happy.

Yeah.

Children absorb the tension in their house.

This has been more stressful of a situation.

Like, I do feel like we took on too much mortgage.

Okay.

So we're struggling, you know, in that area.

Why don't you buy a cheaper house or stay there?

So that's my question, I guess.

Do we

have to do that?

I would not recommend uprooting teenagers again and moving across the country again to you went regularly, you went suburban, then you went to urban, and now you're trying to go to rural.

You're chasing something.

And until you and your husband go sit down with a marriage counselor and figure out what it is about the world y'all are co-creating together in real time that y'all aren't happy with,

I wouldn't recommend running across the country.

I would recommend what Dave said: sell the house you can't afford and buy a house you can afford or rent a house.

And stay there other than that.

Yeah.

And let's work on peace, solve for peace in the family.

Yeah.

I'll send you a copy of Building a Non-Axious Life from John Deloney.

I think you'll like it.

The bottom line of a break-in is more than financial.

It also costs you peace of mind.

So when it comes to protecting your home and the things you've worked so hard for, don't wait for trouble to show up.

Plan ahead.

That's why I recommend SimplySafe.

See, most security systems only do something after someone's already broken in.

But by then, it's too late.

SimplySafe's active guard outdoor protection changes all that.

It's like having a guard at your house who never clocks out.

SimplySafe cameras use AI to spot trouble around your property.

And if something doesn't look right, a live agent can step in.

They can talk to the person, activate a spotlight, and call the police.

SimplySafe also helps protect against fires and floods.

SimplySafe is always working for you, and that restores your peace of mind.

It's simple, it works, and it's a smart investment.

And right now, you can get 50% off a new SimplySafe system with 24/7 professional monitoring at simply safe direct.com.

That's 50% off at simply safe direct.com.

There's no safe like SimplySafe.

Hey guys, if you like what you're hearing around here, we could use your help.

Turns out the number one marketing thing in the podcast world and in the YouTube world is you.

When you tell people, when you push the subscribe button, the follow button, the like button, when you share the show by sharing a link or telling people that we're here, hey, go check this show out, however, you do that.

Some of the platforms have a share button.

That's fine.

Any of that.

And those five-star reviews, thank you.

Keep them coming.

We appreciate you.

All that stuff actually affects a bunch of new people finding out about us, and we appreciate you.

The growth rate around here is mind-boggling, and we know that it's because of you.

Thank you.

So buying and selling a home right now, The market has just strangely warmed up in the past three weeks.

I'm interested to see what happens happens in this real estate market.

It's a big deal.

If you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best deal, the Ramsey Trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust that we have done the due diligence on.

We're going to interview them.

We do the agent profiles.

We want high octane, high protein, high producing, not Aunt Sally who got her license last week.

And everybody's got freaking Aunt Sally that gets her feelings hurt because you won't list your $600,000 house with a brand new agent just because she's your aunt and she takes time out from her bridge club to show your house.

Eh, eh, eh.

Wrong.

No, to find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent pro for free, go to ramseysolutions.com slash agent or click the description and where you're listening there on the YouTube or on the podcast, and we'll hook you straight up.

And these guys are good.

They know what they're doing.

Jay's with us in Canada.

Hi, Jay.

How are you?

I'm doing really good.

Yourself?

Thank you, Dave and John, for taking my call.

Sure.

I have a question regarding my wife and I and our personal home.

Cool.

I am,

yeah, sorry.

I am a contractor, and over the last eight years, I bought some commercial warehouse bays with the cash flow from the company.

I have them rented out to HTRAC, plumbers, electricians.

The cash flow, a decent return.

The value is about $750,000.

and I currently owe about $300,000 on them.

My question is, we have a home, home, a personal home that's worth about $700,000, and we owe about $300,000 on it.

And I'm just wondering if I should be selling the portfolio, just getting rid of it, increasing the debt and the risk, and just paying off that mortgage because it's looming over top of me.

And I feel like I drank the Kool-Aid a little bit of borrowing money

for real estate, and I don't want to fall into that trap.

Good for you.

What do you make?

Around a little under $200,000, $70-ish, probably.

Okay, cool.

All right.

Well, what I would would do is to map it out and do some math

sometime this evening or maybe tomorrow night, whichever one you want.

And let's look at it two different ways.

Okay.

How fast can we pay off the house

if we lean into it without selling?

Wait a minute.

How many properties are there

on the commercial?

There's three.

There's three different ones, and you gave me the totals, right?

Yeah, you bet.

Okay, so there's three possible scenarios.

One is keep them.

And when you were describing them, you didn't use words that made me think you hate them.

You like those properties, don't you?

I've had them for eight years.

The cash flow, they've been full the whole time.

That wasn't what I asked.

I said, you like those properties, don't you?

Yes.

Okay, it's a simple thing.

You like all the things that you just started describing, and they're all good things.

I'm a real estate guy.

I love real estate.

I've got more money tied up in real estate than anything else.

So I love it.

I'm not against real estate.

I'm just against debt, as you know.

So that's the Kool-Aid you've been drinking on.

Okay, so three possible scenarios.

You take your $200,000 income.

You say, if I keep all three of the properties, how long does it take me to pay off my house?

And then how long does it take me to pay off the other?

So you got $600,000.

If you did $100,000 a year, it'd take you six years or something like that.

So probably seven years is the fastest you could possibly clear all of them.

Unless your income went up, right?

Yeah.

Okay, so that's scenario number one.

Scenario number two is you sell one of the properties, throw it at your house,

and you're debt-free in

whatever it ends up being, five years, four and a half years, right?

Okay.

Scenario number three is you sell all three and you're debt-free tomorrow.

Yeah.

Okay.

I'm thinking you're probably going to land in the middle one.

Okay.

Because

it just kind of takes your breath away to say sell all of them, although you do want to be out of debt, and I want you out of debt.

But I think you could be out of debt in a reasonable period of time if you lean into this.

But you could accelerate the reasonable period of time by dropping one of them, the least favorite one.

Take that equity, throw it at your house, and I think you're done in four and a half years or so.

I might be wrong.

I'm guessing, looking at these numbers, but that's probably pretty close, depending on how the equities shake out among the three.

But

I would sit down and look at that and just go, okay, which one do I want?

Do I want seven years?

Do I want four and a half years?

Or do I want three and a half months?

Right.

And the trade-off is I own less of or none of these other rentals in any of these different scenarios.

And honestly, I think what you're going to find is your stomach and your throat will tighten up while you're looking at these numbers.

One set of these, you go, that's not the one I want to do.

That didn't feel good.

Yeah.

And I think that's the one where you sell all three personally because I think you still like these, but you like the idea of being out of debt.

And I agree with you on both of those things.

I like them, and I like the idea of being out of debt.

But do I want to fight through it for seven years?

Maybe not.

Yeah.

What are you going to do, man?

I'm curious.

I'm going to pray about it.

That's a good thing.

I'm going to.

You should do that before you call two Yahoo's on a podcast.

I respect you guys' advice, and I appreciate your time.

I think I'm going to sell one for sure.

It's just

how soon I can, you know, there's some other stuff that works.

I have a tenant that's got a long term that might be beneficial to

move, but we'll see.

He might want to buy it.

Yep.

That is an option.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't care.

There's a, you just think it through.

But I think

my point is the prayer is a good thing because one of the things you'll find is

when God gives you something, it's very peaceful.

That's right.

So if you get an answer or you feel like you're getting an answer in prayer and there's not peace associated with it, it wasn't God.

It was last night's pizza.

You know what I'm saying?

So there's always, that's what I meant by your stomach being tight and your throat being tight.

Same thing.

You just, where there's a sense of peace, that gives you, that's a guidance mechanism.

Even if the thing you're doing is about to be really difficult and challenging and not pleasurable, you'll still have peace.

You still have peace like this is the right move.

Yep.

Exactly.

Exactly.

That's a really good question, Jay.

But what we're giving you here is not an answer, but a decision-making paradigm, a framework by which you can make these decisions and pull it off.

And that it applies to a whole lot of different things out there.

And,

you know, I love good real estate.

I love it as an investment, but I love it paid for.

And so whatever he ends up with here, I want it to end up paid for.

And then if he wants to add some more, he adds it with cash as he goes along.

And I think he will be able to do that.

And the types of properties he's describing, I don't know in Canada, but the types of properties properties he's describing in uh nashville tennessee are wonderful type property to own well

excellent properties it's the track record of eight years always always full yeah yeah cash flowing i just like it i like it i like it a lot so yeah that's the thing so um

other stuff that is going down in value and that is not an investment but is instead a consumption like a boat Yeah, if he had two boats and an RV and a big truck.

Yeah.

And a four-wheel-drive truck that you don't need.

No amount of truck will help you with your ego.

I'm just telling you.

And I got a big one.

Truck that is.

And an ego.

I was going to say, yeah.

So, I mean, none of this stuff is worth keeping.

to stay in debt.

That's bullcrap.

What we're talking about here is an investment that's going up in value and a guy that likes it.

Now, if you call me up and you say, I hate being a landlord, well, regardless of what the implications are,

continue to be a landlord.

Sell them all in cash out.

Sell the stupid thing.

It's just a rental house.

It's like, oh, I feel dumb.

No, you don't feel dumb.

You figured out what you don't like doing.

A lot of people spend their life not knowing what they don't like doing.

It's a good thing.

Or doing it anyway and not liking it the whole every step of the way.

Yeah, miserable.

And then you make excellent trolls on the internet

because you ain't got anything else to do except be miserable.

And then you want to bring everybody with you on your trip, your miserable trip, your trip down miserable lane, you miserable people.

This is the Ramsey Show.

When you go through a job loss or job change and lose your employer-sponsored health insurance, there's no better time to try Christian health care ministries.

That's right, there's another option besides Cobra to take care of your family during that time.

Because if you didn't know, the cost of Cobra has gone up a lot in the past few years.

And CHM is an affordable, biblically based alternative to health insurance.

So do your own research.

CHM is a great option that's potentially a third of the price of COBRA.

It's a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981.

And the support you get from CHM goes beyond helping you pay for medical bills.

Members become part of a family that prays for them when they have a medical event.

Try getting that with Cobra.

So if you're going through a job loss, life change, or just want to explore other options to save on healthcare, CHM might be perfect for you.

CHM programs start as low as $98 a month.

So find out more at chministries.org/slash budget.

That's chministries.org slash budget.

Thanks for joining us, America.

We're really glad you are with us.

The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YReFi.

If you're ready to stop drowning in private student loan debt, we found a way.

It's a company called YReFi.

They throw you a rope.

Talk to YReFi and see if refinancing your defaulted student loans is a good way for you to get rid of the debt.

Low fixed rate, fits in your budget, all that stuff.

Talk to them.

Why refi?

That's the letter why

R-E-F-Y

dot com slash Ramsey might not be in all states.

Today's question comes from Kate in Michigan.

I'm a marketing professional in my early 20s.

I started my own business and I earn over $150,000 a year.

Congratulations, Kate.

I have close to $125,000 saved as a down payment on my first house.

I've always wanted to be a homeowner and I'm confident this is what I want to do.

But a lot of people around me are pressuring me to not buy a home.

Oh, good gravy.

Because of Christian beliefs that girls...

I'll just, I'm reading it how she wrote it.

That girls shouldn't buy a home and men should be providers.

I don't have a boyfriend, so I'm not getting close.

Dude, I can't even finish this.

I'm not even close to getting married.

What would you advise your daughter to do?

Leave the cult.

Leave whatever madness and misrepresentation of Christian beliefs and ethics and right and wrong immediately.

That is not a Christian belief, darling.

No.

That's a cult belief.

God almighty.

I would advise my daughter to buy a house with $125,000 she has saved as a downtown.

And keep being the stud at that you are and hope that some guy is lucky enough to even catch your eye.

Oh my God.

Jesus is so fast ackwards.

You people, unbelievable.

Some of y'all are just really screwed up and then you put a cross over the top of it.

You kill me.

You make the rest of us that love Jesus look like we're morons because you're a moron when you do stuff like this.

That's just nuts.

I can't, this burns my butt.

I don't have any words to say or it's just, I hate bad doctrine and bad theology and how it affects people when they get in toxic situations.

I'm sorry, darling.

Your mother and father have misled you.

Leave the cult.

Yes.

Because that's where this crap's coming from.

I mean, I don't have any other words to say that aren't going to get me.

I don't.

You don't think I'm not going to get it?

I don't give a crap.

This is stupid.

I've been doing this a long time.

What are you going to do?

Get mad at me and leave?

I mean, you and I guess that'll leave us only 60 million listeners.

Oh, well, okay.

Darn.

Is this real?

Oh, it's definitely real.

You were on a podcast the other day.

I was.

You're right.

When we were traveling.

You're right.

You're right.

You're right.

You were in the middle of one of these dad gum things.

You know who usually starts.

Okay,

you know who says this crap?

Men

who are are afraid of losing control of

women like this.

And they're not as ambitious and they don't have as much get up and go.

And so they even stand up next to a motherfucker.

They take their insecurity and fear and try to duct tape Jesus on the top of it to keep their crumbling kingdoms from coming out from under them.

Kate, you're amazing.

Good for you.

Kate, you're an absolute incredible human being.

Jesus.

Go shine, girl.

Go shine.

And just pray.

Have some God pray that he finds a woman as good as you to sign up with.

Oh, my gosh.

I mean, if you've got a son out there and you're looking for it, I mean, Kate is a good one.

In Michigan.

Well, she's former cult.

She doesn't have that.

She'll have some counseling necessary.

Getting out of this cult is going to be painful for a minute.

Darling, you are.

I'm looking a little bit melodramatic, but not much.

But not really.

I am going to strongly encourage my daughter to, A, I'm going to give her a picture of what a healthy marriage looks like because I want her to think I want to be a part of that institution.

I want to be a part of this thing because my mom and my dad laugh a lot.

They've got a ton of joy.

Their finances work together.

All the stuff that the data tells us.

I want her to have a ringside seat of how amazing this thing is that my mom and my dad have.

That's number one.

Number two, I'm going to teach my daughter how to work hard.

I'm going to teach my daughter how to do things on her own, learn how to do stuff, change attire, fix a faucet, work really hard outside.

She was out doing some crazy hot yard work the other day.

She's nine, and I pay her well and take care of it.

Anyway, I want her to be able to know how to do it.

She's going to the salt mines on Friday.

She's not doing that.

That's where my son is right now.

But I want her to know how to do hard stuff.

And yes, dude, if she says, Dad, I want to start my own business.

I think I can make $150K a year.

I will be shoving.

Her mom and I will be pushing each other to see who's going to be the biggest cheerleader.

And we're going to say, go get it.

And if she says, Dad, I have $125,000.

It's a down payment.

I don't have any men that are worth my time yet.

I'll say, can I go house shopping with you?

That's what I would say to my daughter.

Period.

End of story.

Ding, ding, ding.

Ta-da.

God, this gets me fired up, daddy.

Man, I think we probably ought to stop.

Heidi's in Casper, Wyoming.

Hey, Heidi, what's up?

Oh, not much.

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

How can we help?

My husband and I are debt-free, and

we, about two and a half years ago, sold a business and have kind of taken the last two and a half years to just figure out what we want to do in life.

And he has recently gone back to work, needed some purpose, went back to work

doing something he loves, something he cares about.

So he does home inspection.

And he went to work for

a guy.

And

he

has been there for let's say four and a half months.

And he loves it.

It's been great.

Recently, he has asked for a few days off.

And

essentially, the employer has denied him taking any time off.

And he's not asking for paid time off.

He's just asking for a few days here and there so that we can enjoy our family.

We have kids that are almost out of the house, and we'd like to take the time to

create memories during that,

during the summers and stuff.

And

he has denied him taking any time.

He doesn't make great money.

but again, he loves it, and so it makes it worth doing it for him.

He has the opportunity to actually, he has all the skills to go do it on his own.

And he is going to have a con would like to have a conversation with the employer and say, look,

here's, can we make something work?

But he's pretty certain that he's going to say, no, that's not going to work.

Morally, so my question is, morally, would it be wrong, he didn't sign an on-compete for him to open his own and do home inspections for himself?

No, not at all.

And that's what he should do, as long as he doesn't take clients from his former employer.

Okay.

So if the former employer works with Susie Q, real estate agent, and Susie Q gives him

all of her sales for inspections, you can't use her.

Okay.

You can't steal from the guy contacts that you found by working for him.

That would be unethical.

Okay.

And for whatever it's worth, I want to put another

here.

I am sympathizing with the business owner.

When my residence life staff worked for me at the university, they all knew nobody can take vacation in August because we have thousands of young people moving in, and it is day in and day out until we get these buildings ready.

And everybody knew that.

So if a part of the home inspection business is the the chaos months or June, July, and August,

and

not even that.

If the part of the home inspection business is this guy hired you to work full-time and you don't want to work full-time,

that's on you.

That's not on him.

He's not being unreasonable.

He's not being unreasonable.

Right.

And he

hired a guy to work full-time, and the guy doesn't want to work full-time.

Yeah, and if he said it's flexible and takes a time off,

well, I think we didn't have a good definition of flexible.

Right.

He might say it's flexible in November and December, right?

Or he might say it's flexible one day every six months.

And

you guys want to take five days a week.

I don't know.

I mean, I don't know what flexible means, but I don't think y'all do.

I've only asked for three days.

I know, but in your mind, that's perfectly reasonable.

But you're financially independent and used to be self-employed.

This guy actually thought he hired an employee.

Right.

So, no, you're being unreasonable.

He has a reasonable right to ask the guy, ask your husband to work full-time.

Now,

except for the part where we didn't both agree agree on what flexible meant.

But I don't use that word around here because I'm not.

He tried yoga and it was a disaster.

I broke the yoga.

Ruth is in Philadelphia.

Hey, Ruth, how are you?

Hi, Dave.

Hey, what's up?

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

My 20-year-old son passed away about four months ago.

Oh, no, what happened?

Motorcycle accident.

Oh,

Ruth, what was his name?

Elijah.

Elijah, good kid.

Yes, great kid.

Pretty amazing.

Hard worker.

I'm so sorry.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Between some money that he had saved, because he was a good saver, he had done your program,

and then there was a life insurance policy we didn't know on him.

We even left with about $95,000.

My husband and I have $21,000 left on our house, and we didn't know, and that's the step we're on.

Do we just pay off the house, or do we need to sit and wait longer?

My husband does have a little reservation because it hasn't we haven't gotten a police report, and he's like, what if somebody wants to sue us?

We were told originally from the the first cop that it was not our son's fault, but we don't have anything in writing that says that.

Is there an open case against you?

No, not that we know of.

I would call the investigator of the accident.

Was there another vehicle involved?

Yes.

Someone hit our son.

Okay.

Is there going to be an additional suit at a later time?

We don't know of anything.

We were told, we last were told it was going to the prosecutor's office.

No, will you be filing a suit at some time?

We hadn't thought about that.

Against the person who hit your son?

We hadn't even thought about that.

Okay.

If you're worried about a legal implication, I would get advice from an attorney if y'all have one.

If you're considering a suit down the road and thinking through all that kind of stuff, four months is,

I always tell people don't do anything for six months.

If you're itching to do a thing, maybe find a small cause to donate to or something like that.

I wouldn't even do that right now.

Yeah, but I wouldn't do nothing for I don't think I don't think money is an issue right now in your life.

A broken heart is an issue in your life.

But we don't need to pay the house up yet.

Not yet.

I would set the money in a high-yield savings account and just forget it's there

until it's at least six months old, until the tragedy is at least six months old.

Because it takes about that long to even get a full breath.

You can't even get your lungs full right now still.

Okay.

Right?

Right.

No, I agree.

And I can't imagine being in this situation, but I do know that even as clear-thinking and decisive as I am, I don't think I would be in, I know I would be in a debilitated state to make great decisions.

I think looking in from the outside, paying off the house is kind of a no-brainer.

I don't think it's a big deal at all.

I mean, $95,000 minus 21, even if you've got some legal things, you're going to have enough.

But I just don't think you need to worry about it right now.

That's my point.

Okay.

I think it's good just for you and your husband to be holding each other and crying right now.

Ruth,

unfortunately, I've had the honor and the heartbreak to sit with a lot of parents in this situation.

Let me ask you this.

I often hear...

some semblance of this story.

There's an emptiness and I feel like I need to do something.

Does that encapsulate your story, or are you feeling something different?

No, I feel like I do need to do something.

Okay.

I would challenge you and your husband to do something either together or somebody else or by yourselves, but find a thing to just plug into and say for three months, I'm going to plug into this thing.

Local library, reading at an elementary school.

I'm going to volunteer at a summer camp two hours a day, just doing a thing that will get you up and moving to do a thing, and then you can go back home and get back under the covers

okay otherwise you're gonna end up just scrolling and scrolling and thinking well do I need to do this and do I need to do this and that pressure becomes anxiety over time you start worrying about things into the future and so find a small thing for you just to

lack of better terms I wish I had a lot a nicer way to say this just discharge some energy into a thing that will be positively oriented something that will help somebody

are you guys in a good church

we are we are good so So, you got a good community crying with you?

We do.

And we have older children.

And I do.

I am pouring something to my father.

I have a 95-year-old father.

I'm helping take care of.

Great.

Yeah.

That's a positive.

Yeah.

Okay.

But that can also come with its own set of grief, too, right?

It will.

Yeah, it does.

Yeah.

So even if it's as simple, can I tell you something my parents did, and they didn't even tell me they did this.

I found this out secondhand.

They got in a car.

They live in

in central Texas.

They got in their car and drove a couple hours and picked up somebody who lost most of their house.

They picked up all the laundry in the house, nine trash sacks, and drove it all the way back to their house.

And they're just doing laundry for the next week.

They live in Texas.

They felt like they needed to do something with these floods.

And they have very limited resources.

And they got up in the car and they did a small thing.

It ended up being a huge thing for that family.

And they didn't tell anybody.

They didn't even tell me they did that.

And so finding, I come and do somebody's laundry.

Me and husband, we're going to go mow one lawn a week together.

Something that will get you out of your head and just go do a thing for somebody and then come back.

And then two months, three months after y'all have decided are we going to sue somebody?

Are we going to let this thing go?

Do we have a police report?

Then you can start making your next steps.

Wow.

Preston's in Columbus, Ohio.

Hey, Preston, how are you?

Hey, I'm doing fantastic.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So my primary question, is it more important to follow your baby steps exactly, or is it more important that me and my wife agree on how to get out of debt?

Baby steps.

Forget your what?

I'm totally kidding.

Totally kidding.

It's more important that you don't pose two negatives.

Right.

You've put your only two options.

In an impossible cage.

Yeah.

Fair enough.

How about third option?

We both sit down and talk about our goals and how we're going to get there long enough that we agree on the way we're going to get there.

Okay.

So this is not an argument about the baby steps.

This is an argument about power.

I hadn't considered that.

I appreciate that perspective.

So, yeah, I mean, the baby steps are correct.

Obviously, I'm going to say that.

And because I've got 10 million, 20 million people that have followed them and had great results and followed them exactly.

And so, no, I'm not going to tell you to deviate from that.

But that's a spirit of legalism, and that doesn't get, that's not the spirit we want to get.

We need to get a spirit of alignment, but if we can't get alignment on something that's smart, there's got to be an underlying reason for that.

And let's get the underlying reason for the lack of alignment out in the open, which is a power struggle.

And let's try to get to the bottom of that and figure out why.

Because you're probably, if you're disagreeing about something like arguing about the baby steps,

there's probably some other stuff that's out of align.

This may be the 10th scheme, and your wife has said, I'm not doing that.

Or it might be she wants to pay this one credit card that's been haunting her.

And you're like, no, it's exactly what you said.

It's about power.

Who's going to be right?

And let's put the right or wrong aside and say, how can we be united?

And usually that stuff takes care of itself.

And the interesting thing is, if it's something like that, which credit card?

That's such a temporary non-issue.

Correct.

Correct.

Such a temporary non-issue.

And so

the big things are

how are we going to become wealthy and get out of debt?

And, you know, what's the best way to do that?

Let's get after it.

And so, you know, if you do this and do this and do this, and we're going to do it with enthusiasm, then have at it.

But the most efficient way is to do the different things, the nuanced things that we talk about while you're doing the baby steps.

Like, for instance, it's not a baby step, but if you keep getting a tax return, one of the things that people do is they adjust their withholding to where they get the proper amount coming home and they have more money coming home to get out of debt with.

That's not a baby step.

Whether you keep your car or not, a too expensive a car that's in debt.

You know, that's not a baby step.

But we're looking at, okay, we own a car that's $50,000 and we make $40,000.

Well, that's not a baby step thing.

That's just stupid.

Just bad math.

Yeah.

You know, and so on.

And so there's all these different things you've got to look at.

I've got a whole life policy.

It's got $24,000 in it.

Good.

Get some term insurance in place, which is the proper amount of life insurance to get 10 to 12 times your income.

And term insurance that costs you nothing.

And get that $24,000 and throw it at your debt.

These are things that people do while they're doing the baby steps.

Trevor Burrus: But if somebody comes at their spouse and attacks them with the baby steps,

it's not uncommon that we hear somebody try to throw something in the gears just to say, I want to have a say too.

Right.

Yeah, my vote counts.

Right.

My voice counts.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Does having more money and less stress sound nice, but feel impossible?

Well, in my brand new book, Breaking Free from Broke, I share my story of going from broke to millionaire and exactly how I did it.

You'll learn about the money traps and cultural lies out there designed to keep you brainwashed and stressed out, from credit card schemes to mortgage myths to investing traps.

So, if you're not where you want to be financially, I can help you finally get ahead.

You can get breaking free from broke today at ramseysolutions.com/slash/store.

That's ramseysolutions.com/slash/store.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love,

and create actual amazing relationships.

Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Dr.

John Deloney Show, is my co-host today.

Thank you for joining us.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Emma is in Portland, Oregon.

Hi, Emma.

How are you?

Hi, I'm doing well.

Thank you.

Good.

How can we help?

Okay, I have a medical insurance syndrome.

I'm hoping you guys can give me your expertise on.

Married, 39, my husband, 45.

We have two kids, a 13-year-old and an 8-year-old.

I was recently laid off in April of this year from my job of almost 20 years.

I knew it was coming.

That's okay.

I did receive a very nice severance package.

So I will have 100% pay and benefits for my entire family through November of this year.

Okay.

My husband, full-time employed as well.

So I carried the medical benefits.

I hit the ground hard, got a job, started last week, and very close to the same pay I was at, sat down to do my benefits with my new place of employment.

And the plan that I originally wanted to select is not an option because I already am holding medical benefits from my past employer.

So my two options are.

You can cancel those.

I can't cancel them.

And if I do cancel them, My old place of employment will want a lump sum pay me my severance instead of keeping the bi-weekly normal paychecks who cares coming.

Is it a different amount?

No.

They would just get hit pretty hard with taxes.

No, you know.

Tax is exactly the same.

Withholding is different, but taxes are the same.

Explain the difference of that, Dave.

Okay.

So when you do a lump sum or when you get like a huge bonus check,

we employers are required to withhold more of it at a greater rate, as if you were making more money than you're really making, which is IRS double talk for bull crap.

But anyway, we're required to do that.

So if you've got currently, you know, 15% being withheld, we might have to withhold 20%.

But it doesn't change your actual taxes when you file them at the end of the year.

You're going to get it all back.

Okay.

So can you select the option at the new employer and it start immediately that you like?

I can if I don't have those other.

If I select no, I don't have another.

I know.

But you can't cancel if it's not going to start the next week.

Yes, they're going to retro it back to July 1st.

Yep.

Okay, so if you went to your former and canceled, you could sign up for this and you would have full coverage immediately.

Yes, which would be much cheaper

than the only plan that I would qualify then at my new place of employment.

I just have the dilemma of I didn't want to pay double insurance, because it would be an extra $5.

No, you shouldn't pay double insurance.

You can cancel the insurance with the former employer.

Call your old HR and say, I need ⁇ and send them an email.

It says, I need to cancel it effective this date.

Okay.

And that date needs to be the date that your new employer insurance starts.

Can that occur?

Okay.

Can you do that?

I can call and do that.

No, no, I'm saying, can your new insurance start on a set date?

at the new place the day that you have officially made your other one cancel?

Yes.

So you're not going to go a day without insurance the way we're describing this, correct?

Correct.

Good.

Okay.

That's what you need to do.

Yes.

Then let the former employer know you don't have to pay for my health insurance anymore.

Good for you.

I mean, I know that's what they want, right?

Like they would prefer us to call and do the long-term payout.

All right.

So, Emma, that was my question.

How much of this you want them to pay because they fired you for 20 years?

I mean, no, not really.

It wasn't bad.

Every time I've gotten a bonus over the last 17 years, we have those employees and colleagues that are like, I'm changing my withholdings.

They're not, I'm going to get my full bonus.

That's never been me.

I'm like, you know what?

No, let them take as much because I don't want to see it back.

Withholding, though, you're going to be taxed at exactly, when you file your taxes at the end of the year, you pay taxes on your income, regardless of what, of how the income was paid to you, whether it was paid bi-weekly or in a lump sum.

Your income tax at the end of the year is exactly the same either way.

The only difference is when they pay out a a lump sum, they are required to over withhold.

But that means you're going to get a tax refund is what that means.

Okay, what's that like?

Yeah, really.

It's awesome.

Yeah, this one time, just this one time.

But yeah, but we've solved, but in the process, we've also solved the health insurance problem.

So, yeah, that's a misnomer.

A lot of people believe that you actually get taxed higher on bonuses, but you don't get taxed higher.

You just have more withheld as if you're going to be taxed higher.

but you don't end up paying all of that in tax when you do your filing and here's one other just again I don't have any data to back this up this is just wisdom from your brother John

there's something about you're gonna pay me out this every month for the next year and you can't heal from that company that let you go after 20 years until you stop taking a check from them.

There's something about take that lump sum.

If you've got insurance that you said it's cheaper, it's going to be the same plan.

cut ties of this place and start healing from that.

And don't let them continue to, it feels like you're winning.

You're not winning anything.

Just move on from it.

Take that check and get on about your life.

Just not about setting it all free.

Being free is a good thing.

It sure is.

So that's a good question.

And I think we've...

I did not know that.

That's good to know.

If you clear it up, the math on it, then it helps you to make, it helps you just to get down to, okay, is there any emotion driving the decision?

And if there's not, then that's okay.

But if there is, then you do have the benefit of putting the whole thing in your rearview mirror by getting the lump sum.

I like that.

That's kind of the rip the bandaid off thing.

And you get to start healing.

And you're right.

The company will save some money by paying you out.

They'll not have any health insurance.

You're right.

That's great.

And it gives you a better deal, too.

So, yeah,

I'm going that way.

And that way I don't have any laps in coverage because I don't want Murphy.

You know, if it can go wrong, it will hanging around these coverage lapses.

That's about the time, you know, you have a kidney stone or something, and you get an $8,000 bill in that one week period of time or something.

It's just that's nuts.

So yeah, you've got to.

So tell me about the,

it's not commission checks.

But if you get a commission check.

If you get a huge commission check.

Is there a lot of amount?

It's a ratio to your income.

So basically you've got a W-2 and when you're on a salary or a steady, you know, you get the steady.

But if there's a large bonus,

it's almost like the game show tax.

Only the game show tax is actually a tax.

It's just withholding.

So it's not like that at all.

Anyway,

and I don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head because they've changed them.

But we have to do it here.

So if we've got a situation where

somebody earns a large check.

I have a wild month.

You have a wild, wonderful month.

Yeah, you're going to get a different withholding.

You're probably not because yours is probably all over the place anyway.

It is, yeah.

Yeah.

But if it's you're going along steady and then you get this bump,

like a $10,000 bonus at the end of the year and you make 50, 60,000 bucks.

You know, that's going to get hit heavier than your regular check is in February.

But it's only on the amount they withhold as if, because they treat it as if you're making $10,000 a month now, and you're not.

They calculate it wrong.

It's the IRS.

For God's sakes, they don't do anything right.

So,

and if you work for them, I'm talking to you.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Why is it that when warm weather hits, people start losing their common sense?

They swipe credit cards left and right, saying, I need

a vacation.

I deserve this.

But by August, they're stuck cleaning up a mess.

Listen to me carefully.

You don't need to spend five grand on beach trips and theme park tickets to make family memories.

Here's the deal.

Instead of having the summer you deserve, have the summer you can afford.

That means planning ahead with the Every Dollar Budget A.

It helps you track spending and give every single dollar a job.

That way you make sure the essentials are covered and have some fun without making a money mess.

Look, you got to start bossing your money around or else it'll always be the boss of you.

Download every dollar today.

Hey, are you staying on track with your baby steps?

You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you.

Simply head over to the show notes and click the link titled, Are You on Track with the Baby Steps?

and complete the quick free quiz.

And we'll help you get on track, baby.

Ah, Keith Kagan is with us in San Angelo, Texas.

Hey, Kagan, how are you?

Good.

Thanks for saying my name right, actually.

I was trying to not mess it up.

They helped me phonetically and everything.

Occasionally I can get it, but what's up?

How can we help?

So I'm 32 years old.

I make $70,000 a year

and I'm about $120,441 in debt.

And it's all consumer.

Well, I actually have, my wife has $16,000 in student loan.

And I'm just wondering the best way to tackle this debt.

I'm following the baby steps.

We started about a month ago, and I'm like $4,000 in.

We just paid off one of the credit cards and some medical debt.

Good.

So what is $120,000 in debt?

$16,000 was student loans.

Yeah.

$16,061.45 is student loan.

I've got $11,079.16 on credit cards.

Truck, $24,801.47.

And then the biggest one is $67,718.18 on an RV

that we live in.

You live in?

We live in it, yeah.

Tell me about that.

We were living in the Austin area, and my income

before we moved here was a lot lower and a lot more inconsistent.

So we started living in an RV, and it saved us a lot of money.

And before we moved here, we bought this new RV thinking we were upgrading our lives.

And it turns out we were just strapping ourselves to a big piece of metal.

Yeah, that's depreciating underneath you every night you go to sleep.

What's it worth now?

Yeah,

it's worth about $51,000.

Okay.

Does your wife work outside the home, sir?

She's babysitting my sister's kids right now.

She's bringing in like $600

a month, and she's wanting to start working in August.

Yeah, have you guys got kids?

We've got one kid.

He's two years old.

Okay.

So she starts working working in August.

What's she make?

We're thinking she's going to be pulling in about $16 an hour there.

Good.

Okay.

All right.

So

we're pretty frugal.

We're floating this.

And I usually...

Yeah, I don't think you guys are out buying coach purses.

I can tell.

So

the way I answer stuff here is

I say, what would I do if I were in your shoes and why, so that you know the why, not just Dave said, okay?

What I want to solve for, if I'm you, is I want to get back to a place where I have control of my life again to be able to move forward.

Right now, an RV and a truck control my life.

You correct.

And so

I'm going to do some painful things to step back

to set myself up to step forward.

I don't want to just do them to do them.

I want to do it so that I get free to be able to move forward.

Because if you don't have an RV payment and you don't have a truck payment and you have a small apartment rent instead,

this thing turns around pretty quick.

Oh, I know.

Well, we look at the map and see how capable we are.

Yeah.

I mean, you guys can be making $100,000 living in a cheap one-bedroom apartment for one year and clean up every bit of this by selling the truck and the RV.

And you can get a nice house in San Angelo, Texas.

Two years from now.

And I know that because I got family that live there.

Two years from now.

Really?

Yeah.

It's a reasonable place.

It's a great place to raise a family, man.

Good low-cost of living, yeah.

We're pretty comfortable, a lot more comfortable here than we were.

The issue I'm having when I'm looking at selling the truck or the RV is the truck's upside down as well as the RV.

Yeah.

How bad is your credit?

My credit's not bad.

It's around $7.30,000, $7.50,000.

Swing down the credit union and borrow the difference.

I'd rather be $9,000 in the hole.

I have a personal loan for $9,000 and the RV's gone than I would be $67,000.

So you're saying borrow $9,000?

You said you could sell it for

if you sold it, whatever down.

Borrow the difference.

Borrow the difference.

Borrow the difference.

Assuming you can get the thing sold, you know, and all that.

But the same thing's true with the truck.

What do you think the truck's worth?

Last night I checked, it's anywhere between $16,000 and $21,000, depending on condition.

Yeah, good.

So if you could get $21,000 out of it, that makes it only three in the hole.

That's pretty sweet.

So if you got a $15,000 loan at the credit union, you got rid of these two loans.

Now we're down to a little bit of credit card debt, a student loan and a credit union loan to get to get back to zero.

And when you got no payments in the world a few months after that, like another year roughly,

then at that point, you're completely debt-free.

Now both of you together are making 100K.

You save up a good down payment on a house.

Okay.

And you drive a beater.

But you drive like no one else and you live like no one else so that later you can live like no one else and drive like no one else.

This is exactly what my wife and I did 30 years ago when we went broke.

I'm honestly at this point looking forward to driving that beach.

Yeah.

But here's the thing.

Because you got out of Austin and you live in San Angelo, you can move over there west of Grape Creek Road and get yourself two acres and a small house

for a couple hundred thousand dollars.

That would be two million dollars in Austin.

So you can have that life you want.

It's right there.

You just have to have

three years to get there.

Some really uncomfortable conversations.

Three years to get there.

And you get the benefit of not living in an RV the whole time, which is pretty cool.

Yeah, my wife's totally on board with this.

She's been a

big help.

She does all the cooking and everything, and she paints everything from scratch.

It's awesome.

I'm going to give you Financial Peace University.

I'm going to give you a total money makeover book, and I'm going to give you a year of every dollar free as our gift to you because I think you're really going to go do this, and I want to help you.

Thank you.

Go to the credit union tomorrow on this.

Yeah, go to the credit union, start working on where you can borrow this money to cover these differences.

If the truck is with the credit union or the RVs with the credit union, ask them to let you just sign a note for the difference

because they're already negative.

They already don't have collateral to cover their loan as it is.

They might as well admit it and turn it into a personal loan.

But if they're with the RV company or the Ford Motor, you're screwed.

They're not going to do that, okay?

But you have to go borrow it somewhere else.

But I would rather you have

$10,000 in credit card debt because you sold the RV,

$10,000 more in credit card debt because you sold the RV than $67,000 on the RV.

That's a good trade.

It's a really good trade because you're going to get it paid off that much faster.

You got your cash back.

You got your flow back.

So you hang on.

Our team will pick up and we'll get you signed up for all that stuff I just gave you.

And you call us back anytime we can help you because you're exactly why this show exists, just for you.

We've helped millions of people just like you.

That's why we're here.

So you call anytime, dude.

It's what we're here for.

It's good when you

are ready that the teacher appears, huh?

Well, when you, yeah, there's that moment.

And you can, I don't know how

it happens, Dave, but you can hear it in the voice of a caller, like, oh, this person's going to go do it.

And it's that mixture of fatigue and fired up.

And I'll do whatever.

I'll do whatever I got to do.

I'll sell the house up from underneath us.

And you know what he's also selling?

A dream.

Yeah.

He's selling a dream.

I'm selling all this stuff because it's not working.

I got a two-year-old.

It's time for me to move on.

My plan didn't work.

I'm selling that.

I'm selling all of it.

The whole package.

My Austin dream.

I'm going to get a camper in Austin and do the Austin thing.

And I'm back on Austin.

I love Austin.

But

it just, I'm selling all of it.

I'm tired.

I want peace.

And man, when you get there, you can hear it on somebody's voice over the phone.

And it's fantastic.

You know, part of it is

no one wins with money until they decide they don't care what other people think.

That's it.

Including the guy in your mirror.

You gotta go, I don't even care what you think.

Buying and selling a home is a big deal, and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price.

That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents.

They're hand-picked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs, and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day.

To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit ramseysolutions.com/slash agent.

Ramseysolutions.com/slash agent.

Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host.

He is also one of the two people, including Rachel Cruz, doing our money and marriage getaway.

We have two of them coming up.

They're on sale.

You can spend three incredible days here in Nashville on our campus with your spouse, learning the tools to strengthen your connection, deepen your intimacy, and handle your money together.

Dr.

John Deloney, Rachel Cruz, this is pretty much stand-up comedy and a lot of deep, really good information.

Tickets start at, we have one in November, one in February.

One in February would be Valentine's Day weekend.

Early bird pricing is still available for that one.

Tickets start at $7.49, a couple.

There's just a handful left for November.

So if you're going to miss out on November, just wait a minute.

You'll miss out on it.

There you go.

November 6th through the 8th.

And just a handful there.

But you can still get in the Valentine's Day pretty easy, 12 through 14 early next year.

Tickets are the lowest price right now before they end at ramseysolutions.com/slash getaway,

or click the link in the show notes, and you get to be a part of that.

John, that's a good event.

You and Rachel always have incredible results out of that.

Uh, people's marriages are enhanced and sometimes saved.

Saved, yeah, it's it's it's by far my favorite thing I'm a part of, and I love it, love it, love it.

All right, Anne-Marie is in Reno, Nevada, Nevada.

Hey, Anne Marie, what's up?

Hey, thanks for saying Nevada correctly.

I was trying.

I am 59 years old and want to know how do you recommend handling finances in a committed relationship when, based on my divorce decree, I cannot remarry or I'll lose income, which is over $5,000 a month that I really couldn't afford to lose.

Okay, so you get $60,000 a year alimony for how much longer?

Lifetime.

Wow.

You were married a while.

Yep.

Okay.

And you don't work outside of the home?

I have a small part-time business.

I, you know, have a little discretionary income, not anything super substantial.

But have lots of investments and

have a house.

I do have a small

mortgage.

Okay.

And the gentleman that you are dating makes what?

We're pretty equally yoked as far as what we make and assets and that sort of thing.

So he makes he has a job and he makes $60,000 a year?

Yeah, he'll make $60,000 plus and has his own home

and other

assets.

It's a very difficult question.

And

the

because I hear you guys all the time about be married, be married, be married.

It's like, I can't.

I'm leaving too much on the table.

No, you can't.

No, you're.

It's just going to cost you.

What is it worth to you?

Yeah, that's it.

Set your values over the money.

Yeah.

So my problem is, and John's problem,

we're people of faith.

We're Christians.

And so

Scripture tells us we can't be living with somebody we're not married to and be having sex with somebody we're not married to.

That's what our book, our faith book, tells us.

And so that's how we believe and how we live.

And so if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't have any choices in that regard.

I would have to say, all right, we're not living together.

And

or we're going to give up the $60,000.

Let me ask you this.

How long have you been divorced?

Well, separated over three years.

Originally, we had a separation agreement so I would not lose health insurance.

And then we recently went ahead and divorced.

When was the divorce final?

Three months ago.

Oh,

this is fresh.

And

what does your ex make?

Twice what I get.

We've split everything 50-50.

Literally everything.

So he makes $120,000 a year and you got $60,000 alimony?

He offered that, didn't he?

Well, it's $50,000.

No.

It's basically what I required.

He agreed to it.

Pretty well, it's unusually high.

A judge usually would not have done that in most states.

Well,

we had already separated our finances long since, like three years ago.

So as far as investments, all of that, everything was totally separate.

We agreed everything 50-50.

Of course, you know, I supported him all these years as far as moving around the world and supporting his career.

This means you are already

in a serious relationship before your divorce is final.

What happens when he's 75 and doesn't make $120,000 anymore?

No, this is all retirement income.

He makes $120,000 retirement income.

So what is in his retirement?

Is that a pension?

Yes.

Between pensions and Social Security.

So he doesn't have a big nest egg then?

Well, we both do because, you know, we extend financially all of our married life.

I'm going somewhere with this.

I'm not just being nosy.

How big?

Okay.

Well, I mean, we each have

over

half a million in other.

That's what I was asking.

I wasn't trying to shame you.

I'm just trying to figure out what the flip's going on.

All right.

So the downside is that this is real fresh.

If he had been paying this $5,000 long enough that he had a little bit of fatigue from doing it, which he doesn't have yet.

He's been doing it for over three years.

He's been doing it for over three years.

So you could offer him a buyout,

a lump sum buyout.

I don't understand what you're asking us.

I had not thought about that.

Okay.

That would set you free to get married, and it would set him free from you.

Sounds like a win-win.

Have you got a financial planner?

Yes.

Okay.

Sit down with them and ask them to help you do some calculations of what this might be worth in a lump sum.

And,

you know,

because

$60,000 a year for 30 years is a lot of money.

Yeah.

I'm not sure on this lump sum buyout idea.

That never crossed my mind.

So, yeah, as far as

like being in another relationship and considering this, I'm not saying that I'm with someone considering this.

I'm asking about this because it's a topic of discussion.

Like in the community where I live, so many people are in this situation.

And

well, I'm a person of faith that I don't tell people to shack up.

There's not a circumstance I'm going to do that.

Okay.

So a lot of people, what they do here is like, they'll have a commitment ceremony, you know, everything but the state license.

So I was wondering if that is.

Well, I don't know.

I mean, you'd have to talk to your,

if you're a person of faith, you talk to your pastor of do you consider that being remarried or not.

But if you consider it being remarried, then you're unethical to continue to violate the divorce decree.

You're just ducking it.

I think you're talking about a lot of hypotheticals all of a sudden, and I suddenly don't care.

So you just do, I mean, just have a, you know, no, I'm not going to tell you to shack up.

There's not enough money in the world.

I'm going to tell you to go do that.

Sorry.

I've got, you know, it's called standards.

It's called principles.

It's called ethics.

And that's, you know,

not saying I'm perfect, I'm not.

There's a lot of stuff I've done in the past that I'm certainly glad Twitter wasn't around when I was in college.

And so,

but the,

but I'm not going to, you know, tell somebody going forward to enter into something that I don't believe that would be inconsistent for me to do that.

If I wouldn't tell my daughter to do it, if I wouldn't tell my best friend to do it, I'm not going to tell you to do it.

So you've got to decide that for yourself.

I can't make that decision for you.

But it's not a financial decision.

And if you want to try to skirt skirt the ethics on it, I think that's going to bite you later in other ways.

Because if you're willing to lie about that to get money, then what else are you willing to lie about to get money?

And I'm just not going to do that.

But I have negotiated a lot of lumps on buyouts.

They're really rather pleasant because everyone gets free

from the past, the tethering.

Our scripture of the day, 2 Corinthians 4, 7, but we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us.

Earl Wilson says, today there are three kinds of people, the haves, the have-nots, and the have-not paid for what they have

that's pretty good like that alice is with us in seattle hey alice what's up that's so good

hello hi

how are you guys doing today doing great

how can we help alice question

my question was how do i get over the fear of trying to start a career like just even thinking about getting started before you've actually even i'm having trouble understanding you, honey.

Speak directly into your phone, please.

You're having a fear about what?

How do I get over the fear of starting a career before I've even started?

How old are you?

28.

28.

Okay.

Are you nervous right now?

Is that what I'm hearing in your voice?

Yeah.

Okay.

Just excited and nervous.

Okay.

All right.

I'll just make sure I was hearing what I thought I was hearing.

I didn't want to misjudge that.

Okay.

What are you scared of?

I was feeling disappointing, like my employers or future employers.

What's your new career?

So I went to school for literary studies.

My plan was always to go into editing, copy editing,

or just

freelance editing, even.

So I guess I would tell you there's 100%

chance you will, over the course of your working career, you will do a thing that your supervisor doesn't like or that thought you could have done better.

I've done that here.

Could have given a little bit better talk, could have turned in a draft earlier, whatever.

And so I think knowing that perfection can't be the goal

might free you from trying to trying to keep treading water towards that goal.

And then say, okay, then what must be true for me to go in and do the best possible work I can on a day in and day out basis.

How athletic are you?

I'm not that athletic, but I do like running.

You do like what?

Running.

Running.

Okay, good.

All right.

Have you distance running?

Have you done any races?

Races?

I did cross-country.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, have you done some half-marathons or anything like that?

No,

I was thinking about it.

Yeah.

Okay.

I've done about, it's been a while.

I think I quit running because of knees and stuff about 10 years ago.

But prior to that, I did about 20 half marathons.

And

the Ethiopians won every one of them.

I didn't win one.

Little pudgy bald guys generally don't win marathons.

And so what I'm bringing up is that the secret to happiness is lower expectations.

I didn't enter those races thinking I was going to win, and so I'm going to enjoy the race.

Don't enter this career thinking you're going to be perfect and that it might fail, but you can go do it another one.

So what?

You're not going to die from it.

And just expect that it's not going to be perfect.

Because that's kind of how it is going to be.

It's not going to be perfect.

I mean, you're not, you know, because part of being an editor is you're pissing off the people that you're editing.

I don't like being edited.

I don't either.

And I talk too much, Alice.

So I desperately need an editor.

Listen, my last book, we left 40,000 words on the floor.

Well, and there's some grammar too, but yeah.

Because I write too much.

I'm too wordy.

I keep going and going.

No author, like, no writer likes to be edited.

It's not fun.

So you're getting ready to enter a career that's not fun for the people you're helping.

You're a little bit like a surgeon.

Nobody likes to be cut on, but they don't want to die.

And they're so grateful when the surgery's over.

Yeah.

A little bit like a surgeon.

I feel like I'm just procrastinating.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They make me procrastinating because I'm, you know, I'm just so paralyzed.

You just have an unrealistic expectation that everything's going to be perfect, and it's not.

There's a great quote by a woman out of the UK, and I just lost her name, but said, imposter syndrome is the fear that other people are judging you as harshly as you're judging yourself.

Ooh, that's pretty good.

And it sounds like before anyone even has a chance to judge you, you have already been your judge and jury and executioner.

And I want to tell you, I think you're delightful.

Thank you.

And so I think that the voice that is, that is the harshest to you right now may have started with a mom or a dad or a coach or somebody who was ugly to you when you were a kid, but somehow over time that has morphed into your voice.

And I just want to challenge you to start talking to my new friend Alice a little bit kinder

or a lot kinder.

Is that a fair request?

Yes, I try.

I know, but you talk to yourself worse than you would ever let somebody talk to one of your friends, right?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And so sometimes it is as simple as getting a journal and writing a couple of things you're grateful for every morning and writing a note to yourself.

And I'm not talking about some like

super empowerment, like, oh, yeah, like not that.

I'm talking about three things I'm grateful for and three things I'm going to do today because I'm worth that.

And just make it a regular practice.

And all you're doing is changing your default setting inside your mind that starts with, you're worthless and you're probably going to fail to, this is going to be hard and I'm going to give it my best.

And that's that's just going to be

a thing you practice.

So I read a book by my friend John Maxwell called Failing Forward.

And one of the things he said in there that helped me on a lot of things is remember that when you're doing stuff, for instance, in business, we're always trying ideas and the bulk of our ideas end up sucking.

And then occasionally you get one that's brilliant and they don't know about the other 90 things that you did wrong, but the brilliant one makes you look brilliant.

And then you're on the cover of Success Magazine or whatever other bullcraps out there, right?

And so, but he said in the book Failing Forward, he said, just reframe it and say it's not failure.

I'm experimenting.

I found one more way that it doesn't work.

I found another way that it doesn't work.

I took up golf.

I found a lot of ways that doesn't work.

The secret to happiness is low expectations.

So it's, yeah, I want to be excellent.

I'm going to work hard.

I'm going to experiment, though.

And when you're a scientist and you're experimenting, you learn from failure.

You expect failure.

And it is part of the experiment.

I'm experimenting.

I'm not failing.

And the old,

you know, the old adage of Edison, they asked him, you know, the reporter asked him one time, you know, how is it that you found 9,900 and something ways that the light bulb didn't work?

How many you failed 9,900 times?

He goes, no, I didn't fail.

I found 9,000 ways that didn't work before I found one that did work.

And he invented the light bulb.

So there you go.

And so it's

a couple of practical things, Alice.

When you get a new job, and I want you to make a commitment, I will apply for three jobs a day.

I will apply for two jobs a day.

Because it's not a procrastination thing.

It's I keep promises to myself.

I'm a person who keeps promises to myself.

I will apply for two jobs a day.

I will talk to somebody who's an editor in my local community and see if they have any ideas.

But a thing I've always done with my supervisors when I join a company is I ask them, how do you want to hear stuff that might be hard for you to hear?

How, when I turn something in, how do you want to get that?

And it's a way just to kind of take some of the fear and some of those variables off the table.

And then I'm going to do the best I can to meet those expectations.

But going first and having those conversations, it just takes that fear away.

Anxiety gets stronger the more you avoid the thing that your body's making you anxious about.

You got to head head right through the middle of it.

And I wish there was a hack to that.

There just isn't.

You got to go right through the middle of it.

Really good question, Alice.

We're proud of you.

Go get them, kiddo.

I think you got this.

John, good show today.

Well done.

You're getting better, Dave.

Hang in there.

Hang in there.

30, 40 more years, I may get this figured out.

Hang in there, my friends.

Getting better.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.