Don’t Let Other People’s Opinions Derail Your Future

Speaker 1 Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love,

Speaker 1 and create actual, amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr.
John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, PhD in Counseling, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show and number one best-selling author.

Speaker 1 He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.
Hannah's in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi, Hannah.
How are you?

Speaker 2 Hi, I'm good. How are you?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 4 So my question is, is I am 24 years old and I would consider myself like actively dating and I've been on many dates with guys that are well-established, and they make good money, and they're nice, but I haven't really liked any of them.

Speaker 4 But I just met a boy, and I got, I'm smitten with him. I like him a lot,

Speaker 4 but he does make significantly less and he has significantly less than me.

Speaker 4 And I have some goals that I would like to like make for my future.

Speaker 3 So I guess, can I choose maybe to not be with somebody because of their finances?

Speaker 8 All my friends say, you know, money isn't everything,

Speaker 9 but it is something.

Speaker 1 No, money's not everything.

Speaker 1 And financial instability is

Speaker 1 not a deal killer. Financial instability, though, is not the problem.
It's the symptom. And what you're worried about is the problem that's causing his underperformance and his instability.

Speaker 1 And if he's irresponsible, lazy, impulsive, immature, those are reasons not to date someone.

Speaker 12 But if he's a school teacher and he makes 50 grand and you make 200, and you're like, I need, then I would say you don't deserve him. So it kind of depends on where you're coming from.

Speaker 12 Okay.

Speaker 12 So

Speaker 7 he is just getting here.

Speaker 3 He's been here for two years.

Speaker 1 He's just what?

Speaker 4 He moved here from Venezuela two years ago

Speaker 4 so he sends a lot of his money to his family he works really hard

Speaker 4 but he sends a lot of his money and pays for his sister's school and

Speaker 1 that would not be unusual for someone that gets to come to America legally and has a family in an area that is not as blessed a lot of people send a lot of money back home and And is that also what attracts you to him?

Speaker 12 Is that he's so generous and kind and he's hardworking?

Speaker 4 He is very generous.

Speaker 7 He's very kind.

Speaker 4 He's handsome. I like him a lot.

Speaker 12 And probably the things that you love about him are what's driving you crazy.

Speaker 1 That's just called being in a relationship with somebody.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So I think what you've got to decide is, because he's not going to stop

Speaker 1 helping his family

Speaker 1 in another country because of you.

Speaker 1 No matter how much he says he is, it's not going to happen.

Speaker 1 So are you going to make peace with that and are you able to go forward? Okay?

Speaker 1 Because he's not, and I'm not saying whether he should or shouldn't.

Speaker 1 I'm happy that he's generous, but it also,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 an American view of that is different than a Hispanic view of that, a Latino view of that, because Latinos do a much better job of taking care of extended family than Americans do.

Speaker 1 Americans are like, you're 18, hit the road, good luck.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 1 Right. And I hope you make it.
And that was kind of like my dad, right? Just kick me out, right? And it's like, swim, boy, because you're going to drown if you don't, kind of thing.

Speaker 1 But that's not true in that culture that he's coming from. In that culture, he is duty bound by everything that is in his DNA.
his cultural DNA to support the family back home. He's not going to stop.

Speaker 1 And that means he's a person of honor in his culture. But in our culture, we might call that irresponsible if he doesn't first take care of his own household.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And neither one are right or wrong.
It's just a viewpoint.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 10 I worked like hard to get to where I'm at.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 4 I'm like really conflicted with it.

Speaker 5 All my friends like him.

Speaker 1 But hold on, hold on.

Speaker 12 Here's what you have to be careful of. Don't posit yourself as better than him.

Speaker 12 Yeah. It's just different.

Speaker 6 No, he works really hard, but it is very different.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But he doesn't keep anything. He sends it all to Venezuela.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 12 Or some of it to Venezuela, just not as much as you want him to have. So if you'd rather have a number

Speaker 12 over a person of character.

Speaker 1 No, I think you can have both. You could just choose to have a person that is more aligned culturally with you and is not going to send all their money to their mom.

Speaker 12 You get to decide that.

Speaker 1 You know, and

Speaker 12 I'll say this, just in a dating, just because it hurts doesn't mean it's not the right thing.

Speaker 12 So just because you'll be sad that this one doesn't work out because your values don't align doesn't mean it's not the right move.

Speaker 1 But it doesn't mean you're shallow and you're choosing money. It just says I'm so uncomfortable with these differences that I can't get along.

Speaker 1 I'm not, and I'm not, and I don't have a reasonable expectation they're going to shift.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I won't, yeah.

Speaker 1 And so he's not a project. He's a person.
We're not going to hope we change him. God help.
Don't do that one.

Speaker 1 And so, you know, I think you've got to get comfortable with who he is as a part of your, and develop

Speaker 1 a new life plan that includes both ways of doing things in one household. And if you can do that, then it's not a number, you know, and so forth.

Speaker 1 But you're just recognizing that it's not going to be the way you had it dreamed, the way you had it plotted out as you walk down the aisle.

Speaker 1 And, you know, it's also okay, and it doesn't make you shallow or wrong to say, I can't do this. Absolutely.

Speaker 12 And that will still hurt.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Because she she likes him.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I don't think you can juxtapose it with the only guys I'm going to fall in love with are guys that are this way versus the guys that are predictable. That's not true either.
No.

Speaker 1 That's not true either.

Speaker 1 I had the same sandwich today. We were laughing about it in the cafe because when I walk up, they start making it.

Speaker 1 And it's like, you know, predictable is not bad. Okay.
It's not doesn't make you a bad human being. And, you know, you want an environment where you're predicting things.

Speaker 1 And that's a normal safety mechanism that we all have. And so I probably ought to branch out on my sandwich joy.

Speaker 12 And I was going to say, when over the course of my marriage, especially when I was into every fad diet possible, my wife, at the beginning of every month, she'd say, hey, what are we this month?

Speaker 12 And I was like, Raw V. And she's like, oh, God, okay.

Speaker 12 And then the next month, she's like, what are we this month? And she would make it a go. She'd give it a run.
And she loves that we're a little bit more consistent now.

Speaker 1 A little bit less. Boring is is not bad.

Speaker 1 Especially when it comes to stuff like that.

Speaker 12 Consistency can kind of get you.

Speaker 1 Listen, don't reduce this to an argument over

Speaker 1 that you're all about money. It's not that shallow.
It's that the inconsistent instability that this represents, you're not about. And that's okay.

Speaker 12 Don't reduce it to my set of values are better than yours.

Speaker 12 Like Dave said perfectly, like it I just don't lie. In his culture, he has been a person of honor.
And in your culture, you are being a person of honor.

Speaker 12 And y'all have to decide: can we come together here?

Speaker 1 Or

Speaker 12 these are just two big value ships going past each other in the night. And we got to meet each other and we had some great dates.

Speaker 12 And you're a wonderful guy, and you're a wonderful girl, and we're going to move on. And y'all get to decide that.
Yep.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 14 You know what makes a summer party great? Good friends, cold drinks, and great food. But you know what can bring the party down? Spending way too much money to make it all happen.

Speaker 14 And that's why I get my summertime grocery hauls at Aldi.

Speaker 14 They've got USDA choice meats, fresh organic produce, and all the stuff you need for an epic or low-key backyard barbecue without breaking the bank.

Speaker 14 There's no better feeling than good eats at low prices. So stop paying more and shop at Aldi, where they have the lowest prices of any national grocery store.
Find a store near you at Aldi.us.

Speaker 14 That's A-L-D-I.us.

Speaker 14 Savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market.

Speaker 1 Alex is in Canada. Hey, Alex, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 15 Hi, David.

Speaker 15 Thank you so much for taking my call.

Speaker 1 Sure. What's up?

Speaker 15 Yeah, so I have a quick question. So

Speaker 15 a bit of a background. So I work or worked as a digital product manager for the last eight plus years, just within like the tech industry.

Speaker 15 Unfortunately, in the beginning of March, our company did a bunch of layoffs and

Speaker 15 I was a part of that cut. And so as of March, I have been unemployed

Speaker 15 looking for work. And in the meantime, we've been living off of our savings.
We don't have any sort of big payments like car payments or anything like that. Why aren't you freelancing?

Speaker 1 If you're a digital project manager, you ought to be covered up in freelance work.

Speaker 15 That has not been the case for me.

Speaker 15 I've been applying, doing my best to find work, but

Speaker 15 it just hasn't been working out for me to find it.

Speaker 1 I mean, how are your buddies that are freelancing getting work as a freelance? I'm not talking about a new job. I'm talking about just freelancing.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 15 my specialty is product management. So I helped companies develop software and scale some of their products.
So usually it's not necessarily freelance.

Speaker 15 It would be, you know, anywhere from like a year plus a gig to get those. So

Speaker 15 there are very few short-term freelance gigs for product management that I've been able to come across.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't doubt that. That does.
We've got, because we've got digital project managers on our team here, and I know what they do. So

Speaker 1 I'm not arguing that point. So yeah, you're right.
It's not like you're,

Speaker 1 you know, a short-term project where you're writing code or something because that's not what you do.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Okay, so on to your question. I got your picture.
You're struggling finding work. I got it.
Okay. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 15 So in the meantime, as mentioned, we've been living off of savings in Canada.

Speaker 15 We have things like employment insurance here, but I've been also helping do random jobs for folks like house pressure washing, floating dock installations and so forth.

Speaker 1 Just

Speaker 15 kind of keep me going.

Speaker 15 Now, there is this gentleman that I came across, and I've been helping him with floating dock installations. He is 74 years old.

Speaker 15 He's been running a business for 16 years now and he is looking to retire and sell that business.

Speaker 15 So I thought it might be a good idea for me to look into acquiring that business.

Speaker 15 I've done several dock installations. Like it's not necessarily rocket science.
Nope.

Speaker 15 And

Speaker 15 he, as mentioned, he's 74. He doesn't do any sort of outside marketing.
All of the leads that he gets are from the actual manufacturer or folks who find

Speaker 15 the manufacturer online. They fill out a form.
He's a regional dealer here in Canada. And so he just gets all of his incoming leads through those forms.

Speaker 15 So he doesn't do any personal Google ads or any sort of forms of advertising.

Speaker 15 And so with a digital background, I'm thinking of ways how this could scale and how I could use my skills to scale the business.

Speaker 1 You want to talk to him about buying it. I got it.
Okay.

Speaker 12 So what are we going to do?

Speaker 15 So he initially wants

Speaker 15 $300,000 for the business. The business is net profiting annually in around $100,000 a year.

Speaker 1 After he pays himself a salary?

Speaker 15 No, so he is an owner-operator.

Speaker 1 Okay, I know, but I mean, some owner-operators have enough sense to pay themselves a salary, so he's not. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. And so he's not really netting $100K because if he paid a manager to do the work that he's doing,

Speaker 1 he'd be netting 50 or 40.

Speaker 11 Correct. Yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's not worth 300.

Speaker 15 Okay. So that was my initial thought process as well.
Yeah.

Speaker 15 And so

Speaker 15 I've brought it up to him, but I talked to him about potentially

Speaker 15 acquiring the business through a seller financing,

Speaker 15 which he seemed initially open to, but because after he talked to his wife, because he's 74, he's kind of driving driving into the sunset basically,

Speaker 15 he wants a certain amount up front, like $100,000 up front.

Speaker 1 Which is probably about all the whole thing's worth anyway.

Speaker 15 Which was my guess as well.

Speaker 15 So I currently do not have the funds to give him even $100K for the business, right? Because I do not want to put my family into any further financial uncertainty.

Speaker 1 But you don't have the money anyway.

Speaker 15 And I don't have the money anyway, right?

Speaker 15 Yeah. And he doesn't want to do 100% seller financing.

Speaker 15 So I was speaking to my parents, and they offered to, they are in the process of selling one of their properties overseas in Eastern Europe. And so they offered to sell that property and give

Speaker 15 some of that money towards acquiring this business should the seller and I

Speaker 15 reach a deal. And so I wanted to get get

Speaker 1 100 grand?

Speaker 15 Not 100 grand. It would be about 50,000.

Speaker 1 So where are you going to get the other 50,000? You don't have it.

Speaker 15 I don't have it.

Speaker 15 And so this is where I would either need to come up with some creative way with the seller or negotiate with him on the down payment.

Speaker 1 That's not a down payment. It's a payment.

Speaker 1 A down payment implies that there's a balance left. I mean, if you put 50 down and he finances 50, that's fine, but that's a long way from 300 300 and him riding off in an RV.

Speaker 1 Correct. I don't think you're getting this deal.
You're too far apart on price and terms.

Speaker 1 And your parents are giving you this money. It's not a loan.

Speaker 1 Oh, you just lied. Okay.

Speaker 12 Here's my worry for you, brother.

Speaker 15 There are some strings attached to it, yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, there's too much desperation in this. As soon as I get desperate, I get stupid.
And you're pushing this from every corner of the table to make this tablecloth fit, and it's not going to fit.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I liked where we were going in general.

Speaker 1 And I love the fact that you're willing to do anything to try to feed your family, from pressure washing to loading dock installs to freelance to getting another job, anything.

Speaker 1 But let's don't get too desperate to be in the loading dock business. To where we've got people pulling us from every side.
We've got the former owners pulling us. We got mama pulling us.

Speaker 1 Everybody's pulling our hair out. We're going to be bald, man.
Don't do it.

Speaker 12 What stops you from just starting this on your own?

Speaker 1 He doesn't have all the dealership connections. Okay.

Speaker 1 This guy owns the territory.

Speaker 15 He owns the territory, correct?

Speaker 6 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's harder. But, I mean, you can go build decks on the backs of houses or something.

Speaker 1 Alex, I'm going to tell you this.

Speaker 1 Be careful when you have to force something from every corner of the table to make it work. There's nothing in this entire story that was a hot knife through butter.

Speaker 1 There's, you know, you got

Speaker 1 stuff coming at you from every angle telling you not to do this. And that's not just God challenging you, it's Him telling you, don't do it.
There's a difference.

Speaker 12 And my fear for you, Alex, you have already done the digital marketing math in your head and you've already spent the money that you think you will make on top of this business.

Speaker 1 No, you don't pay somebody for what you might grow it to. You pay them for what it is.

Speaker 1 And right now, it is a business that's worth somewhere around $150, $200K max, not $300,000.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 he's not got any other buyers. I don't care what his wife thinks.

Speaker 12 Dave,

Speaker 12 I'm asking you this, and you should be asking me, but I'm asking you, what is the psychology behind? So let's say this guy says, I make $100,000, and

Speaker 12 Alex here says, man, if I digitally market this, I can scale it and do this and this and this, I can make $500,000 next year.

Speaker 12 If he doesn't do this deal, his mind and body will feel like he just lost half a million dollars. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's just FOMO. It's just fear missing out.

Speaker 12 That's all it is. But there's this weird thing in our heads that we make up a number, and if anything less than that number, we feel like we're getting ripped off and we lost it.

Speaker 12 And it's just,

Speaker 1 you know, it's a strange loss. You know, one time I put an unrealistic price on a piece of real estate really high.
And then when a guy came in under that, I was like pissed.

Speaker 1 He took 500 grand from me. I was like, no, he didn't.

Speaker 1 I was unrealistically priced to start with. Or if you call me fishing for a California suckerfish, hey, John, I'm going to give you a raise.

Speaker 12 Come on, my office, and you gave me a hundred grand, but in my head I thought I was going to be 200. I'd be like, that dude took 100 grand from me, did he? Exactly.

Speaker 1 That's so crazy. So it's a bass ackwards thing, but that's the way it is.
So, no, yeah, honey, I listen, I love business, and I love your entrepreneur skills, and I love your

Speaker 1 work ethic and your willingness to humble yourself and go do whatever it takes to get something going. You're a good man.

Speaker 1 You're going to find something, but don't step up in a bear trap in the process. And this smells like bear spray to me.

Speaker 1 You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all.

Speaker 1 Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet.

Speaker 1 I also discovered that there are a lot of rip-offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity.

Speaker 1 What you need is level-term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family.

Speaker 1 The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company.

Speaker 1 This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Xander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options, and they've been around for over 95 years.

Speaker 1 So you know they'll be there when you need them. Xander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years.
I trust them, and you can too.

Speaker 1 Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call call at 800-356-4282.

Speaker 1 Brian is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Brian, what's up?

Speaker 19 Pretty good. Thank y'all for taking the call.

Speaker 1 Sure, man. How can we help?

Speaker 19 Appreciate it. So I was wondering your opinion on if I should work a part-time job whenever I start college this fall.

Speaker 19 I have about $40,000 saved up, and I didn't know if I should just use the savings or try to make a little bit of money on the side.

Speaker 1 What do you want to do?

Speaker 19 I actually don't know, to be honest with you, Dave.

Speaker 1 You don't know what you want to do, or you don't know what you should do?

Speaker 19 I don't know what I should do.

Speaker 1 What do you want to do?

Speaker 19 So I want to work part-time probably about like 15 or 20 hours a week.

Speaker 1 Okay. Doing what?

Speaker 19 Probably waiting tables or some kind of job like at Walmart.

Speaker 1 So you enjoy just earning money?

Speaker 19 Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you've grown up in a house where your dad and mom taught you to work.

Speaker 19 Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, John's got a PhD in higher education as a former dean of students, so I'll let him chime in.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, dude,

Speaker 12 you're going to get conflicting data from all over the places. I would strongly recommend you start practicing the thing that you think you want to do one day.

Speaker 12 And so what are you going to college college for?

Speaker 20 So, I'm going to college for accounting and risk management.

Speaker 12 Okay, get a job in a local bank as a teller part-time.

Speaker 1 Or an accounting firm as an intern.

Speaker 12 Even if you're answering the phones at a local accountant's office, you're going to hear stories. You're going to see how the room flows.

Speaker 12 You're going to find out if you want to be a part of this world for the rest of your life. And by the way, whatever you get out of college doing, you won't be doing for the rest of your life.

Speaker 12 That's me being dramatic. But the number of students, let me like, I was a part of a college of education.
They used to do student teaching your senior year in college.

Speaker 12 And the number of students who would take all their education courses, get all the way to the end, do their first round of student teaching, and realize, oh, I hate kids. And it's too late, right?

Speaker 12 You got three and a half years of college.

Speaker 12 So they moved it to where you have to have classroom experience with young people, with kids, before we're going to take your money for the next four years, which was awesome and integris for that department.

Speaker 12 But you start being around this world in whatever way you can. And let me tell you,

Speaker 12 my best friends on planet Earth is a senior leader at a big bank.

Speaker 12 He'll tell you, I would much rather somebody who knows how a bank works, because when you sit down here to do risk management at our bank or a cost accounting, he would rather hire someone who knows how a bank works because he's going to teach you how to do his balance sheets.

Speaker 12 Right.

Speaker 12 And so

Speaker 12 I would suggest, yes, start getting practical real-life experience adjacent to the thing that you think you want to do.

Speaker 1 That's a great, great answer. I would also just say, yes, work

Speaker 1 because an employer likes to see someone that knows how to do more than just go to school. When we're hiring someone, we don't hire a lot of people straight out of college at Ramsey.

Speaker 1 We hire a few here and there. But when we do, we very seldom would hire someone that didn't work because I don't want to have to teach them to work.

Speaker 1 I ain't got time for that. You got to already know how to do that before you get here.
And some of these people, you know, they got confused. They were born on third base, thought they hit a triple.

Speaker 1 And so it's good if you've been working on something ahead of time.

Speaker 12 Let me tell you another weird thing. And I'm sure there's a psychological trope to this.
Your body, and I say that not being cheesy, what feels busy to you will be established pretty early.

Speaker 12 So if you just go say, I'm going to live the first semester off my savings, and I'm just going to go get the feel of college.

Speaker 12 I'm going to take my 15 hours and I'm going to go to the join an intermurial team which again i think that's important too but like i'm going to go do these things you're going to feel busy and then second semester comes and you want to add a part-time job you're going to start to ask i don't even know where to put this but if you start with a part-time job and one of the things you do after move-in and after freshman orientation is you go find a job at a local place and you start working your body will adapt to what is busy And you will begin to make things work.

Speaker 12 And you already have savings. So I can already tell you're not afraid to work and you're a good thinker and you're a good doer.
So go ahead and go out of the gate, man.

Speaker 12 And you can always back off, but it's much harder when you already feel busy to add something else to it.

Speaker 1 Good point. So the answer to your question is yes, work part-time.
And an even better answer to the question is work part-time in the field that you think you're going to move towards.

Speaker 1 Or somewhere close, right? Yeah. Something where you'd get, you know, it's different.
I mean, if you're going to be in banking, don't be waiting tables if you've got the option.

Speaker 1 Waiting tables, not bad, though. But if you're going to be in the restaurant business, certainly do that.
But, you know, just figure out where we're going in general and aim at that.

Speaker 1 Try to land in there. But if nothing else, wait tables.
That's okay, too. So the data that we had when we were doing the

Speaker 1 student loan

Speaker 1 documentary that we did, the debacle called Borrowed Future,

Speaker 1 the student loan debacle. The documentary wasn't a debacle.
It was number one documentary.

Speaker 1 And you can still watch it out there on YouTube for free, folks.

Speaker 1 But one of the things we found, there is data that says that there's a higher probability of graduating in four years when you're paying for some or all of it, not with student loans out of your pocket, and if you're working.

Speaker 1 And that student athletes who hold down what is a full-time job as a student athlete in the NCAA

Speaker 1 and go to school and graduate in four years have a work ethic far beyond the guy who majors in beer pong.

Speaker 1 And so same thing with student athletes, same thing with somebody working.

Speaker 1 And so our point was that you can work and earn enough to go to a state school while working you can stay full-time and work full-time and here's where that you don't have to do that in your case well and dave this is awesome i love this conversation there is data that says if you work

Speaker 12 it may have an adverse it may impact negatively a tiny bit your gpa if you have a full-time job if you have a part-time job where you're very very busy but

Speaker 12 The goal of the human

Speaker 12 of going to college is not to maximize, I don't think.

Speaker 12 I think it's to come out having learned and prepared and be ready to enter the workforce and go get them, is not to see how high you can get your GPA.

Speaker 12 And so we used to have a joke among my buddies who were running businesses and hiring that I will take off the top, the 4.0s because I'm just going to assume you didn't live in college, right?

Speaker 12 And that was a joke. And of course, we didn't hold to that.
But

Speaker 12 if I have to hire somebody who has a 4.0 who's never had a job, they just went to class all day, and somebody has a 3.56 and worked full-time and got their butt out of college in four years, I'm going to hire them every day to Sunday because I know that they can handle a whole bunch of stuff coming in at the same time and get their work done and provide.

Speaker 12 And

Speaker 1 they have a work ethic.

Speaker 12 That's right. So go get that stuff done, man.

Speaker 1 Go get it. Great question.
The answer is yes. I'd work while you're in school.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't make it mandatory for somebody, but if you're asking if you should, Brian, I think you should. Yes.
Bryce is in Huntsville. Hey, Bryce, what's up in your world?

Speaker 1 Hey, thanks for talking with me today. Sure.
How can we help?

Speaker 20 So I'm 22 years old. I just graduated college with my master's in IT field.

Speaker 21 I worked all through college. I'm on Baby Step three D,

Speaker 21 and I'm in a long distance relationship saving up for an engagement ring, slash what I'll call import taxes, since my girlfriend's not from around here.

Speaker 20 And my question is, is how should I prioritize

Speaker 21 saving for a house, engagement and retirement?

Speaker 11 And

Speaker 11 should I do that all at once?

Speaker 21 Should I consider bumping up to my 15% and saving for those other things? Or just keep it where I'm at now?

Speaker 1 What are you making?

Speaker 21 So I'm salaried, I make 88%, and I get pretty much guaranteed bonuses of about 17.

Speaker 11 So a little over 100.

Speaker 1 Yeah, very good. Straight out of school.
Congratulations. Well done.

Speaker 1 And I suspect that's probably on its way up. It's not going to stay there very long, right? That's correct.

Speaker 12 Yeah. I would say your first priority is don't ever

Speaker 12 call your girlfriend an import tax again.

Speaker 1 I would just start there.

Speaker 1 Just because I love you, man. I would just not do that

Speaker 1 on a national podcast that everybody listens to. Yeah.
Yeah. Work could get back.
And then you would be not having a girlfriend. So there you go.
You wouldn't have to get rid of that problem. Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. One less issue.

Speaker 1 All right. So

Speaker 1 I think on the short term, if you didn't do anything

Speaker 1 intellectually stimulating, like long-term investing in any of that, on the short term, if you just piled up some cash to start your life over the next year, that wouldn't hurt anything.

Speaker 1 You're already debt-free. If you pile up some cash for a down payment, a wedding, a ring, and that's all you do for one year,

Speaker 1 that's not bad. That's a big win.
It's not bad.

Speaker 1 That keeps you out of debt on any of those things.

Speaker 1 And then if you want to start adding, if you think you're hitting those goals pretty easily and you want to add some long-term investing now because you're at baby step four uh but if you just piled up cash for an entire year for wedding ring wedding a ring and the import tax and

Speaker 1 and i just can't even say that and um the uh and and whatever the other thing was the house oh my god yeah you're gonna be okay unless he gets struck by lightning first

Speaker 1 ouch

Speaker 14 Let's be real. Buying your first home can feel like reading IKEA instructions upside down.
It's confusing and stressful, and you have no idea if that cam bolt is supposed to go there.

Speaker 14 And if you try and buy a home with some click-and-go lender, well, good luck, because you're just another line on their spreadsheet.

Speaker 14 So, here's the thing: when I was buying my home, I didn't want to just be a loan number.

Speaker 14 I wanted a relationship with a real person, someone who was willing to answer all of my questions along the way and understood my goal of paying off my mortgage fast.

Speaker 14 And that's why I love Churchill Mortgage. They don't rush you.
They don't try to sell you more house than you need. They listen.

Speaker 14 They walk with you step by step and offer guidance so that you understand what you can actually afford.

Speaker 14 So they teach you how to do it the right way so that you have margin and peace with the goal of becoming completely debt-free.

Speaker 14 So if you want rock-solid advice on how to buy a home the right way, connect with a Churchill loan specialist today at churchillmortgage.com. That's churchillmortgage.com.

Speaker 22 This is a paid advertisement: NMLS ID 1591, NMLS ConsumerAccess.org, Equal Housing Lender.

Speaker 1 If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and you're feeling like you can't get ahead, you need to join one of our free every dollar trainings. We're going to show you how to handle money, folks.

Speaker 1 These are new trainings every week, and they're hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. So, that would be Jade or George or Rachel.
We'll be there.

Speaker 1 We're going to show you how to stick to a budget, how to put one together. And you're on average, people find $9,000 worth of margin using Every Dollar.

Speaker 1 That means you can make that kind of movement almost like a head start kind of thing. Yeah.
So check that out. It's free.

Speaker 1 It's everydollar.com slash webinar. And there's QA that's live too, which is kind of like being on the show in a way, right? So everydollar.com slash webinar, it's free.

Speaker 1 We're doing them all the time with Ramsey Personalities. Be sure and check one of them out immediately.
Amy's in Spokane. Hi, Amy.
How are you?

Speaker 9 I'm good. How are you? Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 Sure. How can we help?

Speaker 3 Okay, so I have a bit of a situation.

Speaker 5 So currently I'm a teacher and I make about like $56,000 a year.

Speaker 5 Recently I applied to work with my state as a service coordinator.

Speaker 8 So I wouldn't be really leaving my field completely.

Speaker 5 It's still working with kids.

Speaker 23 But it pretty much doubles my salary, which is fantastic.

Speaker 8 It's anywhere from $90,000 to $106,000. a year depending on how many is on my caseload but the problem i'm running into is it's a contract position, so it's a 1099 and not a W-2.

Speaker 8 So I have to do my own taxes. There's no benefits and there's no retirement whatsoever.

Speaker 24 So I'm just curious.

Speaker 7 One, do I accept this job?

Speaker 8 I haven't even offered it, but I'm thinking way ahead. I've had the interview.
It went well.

Speaker 7 Do I accept this job?

Speaker 5 And if I do accept it,

Speaker 5 how do I save for retirement?

Speaker 8 I'm so used to having my 401k that I don't know what to do.

Speaker 1 Good for you. Good questions.

Speaker 1 You accept the job if it takes you to where you want to be in 10 years regardless of benefits. Where you want to be in 20 years, regardless of benefits.

Speaker 1 Because you can buy your own health insurance, which you'll have to do.

Speaker 1 You can fund your own Roth IRA and even do what's called a simple 401k, which is an IRA for, or a simple IRA, which is a 401k for small businesses. You can do both of those.

Speaker 1 So you'll easily be able to adequately fund your retirement, buy your health insurance. And, of course, you're going to pay ⁇ you're already paying one side of your taxes.

Speaker 1 Now you just get to pay the other. So you have a 7%, 7.63 increase in your taxes because you're going to pay both sides.

Speaker 1 You get a 15.3% self-employment tax versus your employer matches half of that if you're a W-2.

Speaker 1 Okay? So

Speaker 1 you're going to lose $7,000 there. You're going to lose another $7,000 on

Speaker 1 health insurance. And the retirement that you had wasn't 100% pension anyway.
It was a 401k with the state. So you were getting a match.
You were having to put something in there anyway.

Speaker 1 So you're really not losing anything much there except maybe a little bit of match, but I wouldn't worry about that. The point is, though, that you're making a lot more money.
You're free.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you're not under the illusion that somehow the state is going to take care of all my needs, which when you start talking about benefits, that's kind of what's happening in your spirit.

Speaker 1 You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 8 Right. And this is, this, I I get to create my own hours, and I have like a job that I want to start on the side, like my own personal side business.

Speaker 1 Ding, ding, create time for that. Yeah.
You got to do this. You got to do it.
But you need to meet with an insurance pro and get with the folks we recommend here at Ramsey.

Speaker 1 They'll help you put the health insurance in place, health trust, they're called. And you need to meet with your smart or your smartvestor pro in the area.

Speaker 1 You can find them at ramseysolutions.com and get your IRA started. And if you want to do more than a Roth IRA

Speaker 1 into retirement, which you should probably do more than that, if you're out of debt, that is, and then

Speaker 1 you can do also the simple IRA, which is a 401k for small businesses. And you might even look at a SEP.
There's two or three things you can do there that are easy. They're not hard.

Speaker 1 And they'll be able to explain it to you in one meeting and you'll understand it. But you've got to buy health insurance and you got to get your retirement set up.

Speaker 1 And you need to set up to with you probably ought to meet with your tax preparer and automatically start setting aside money for taxes as well out of each check. Right.

Speaker 1 Okay. So it doesn't sneak up on you, right?

Speaker 8 Right, yeah, definitely not.

Speaker 1 Because in the second year, you're required to do quarterly estimates, so you might as well do them in the first year.

Speaker 1 Because it helps you withhold. So you just say, okay, each quarter I have to pay a fourth of my income tax.

Speaker 1 And so you just start setting money out of each check to do that with, and it keeps it from sneaking up on you. So you've got to do a little bit of book work.

Speaker 1 You kind of got to manage your life a little more, not be managed by the state. But

Speaker 1 none of this is really that, it's not intellectually straining. It's just a matter of setting up some systems in place that automatically come out of your checking account.

Speaker 1 So you're, you're funding your retirement, you're funding your health insurance and that kind of stuff. So write it down.
It's health trust.

Speaker 1 Our guys will help you put your health insurance in place. They're not any trouble at all.
They're an advertiser. We endorse them.
And the same thing with the Smart Vestor Pro.

Speaker 1 You can find them one in your area. Sit down with them.
They'll help you get your retirement stuff going. And if you want a tax pro, you can find them too at Ramsey and Ramseysolutions.com.

Speaker 1 And they'll help you set up your quarterly withholding. And that's how you do it.
Because now basically you're self-employed. That's what contract means.

Speaker 12 I just, Amy, I want to challenge you to, when this episode drops, I want you to go back and listen to yourself describe this new job.

Speaker 12 Because you did a great job peeling the math back, but listening to her explaining,

Speaker 12 dude, this is the job for you. It's perfect.

Speaker 1 She lit up. Yeah.
If I were hiring you to do that job, the way your eyes lit up and we didn't even see them would cause me to hire you. Get that? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I want somebody on fire like that doing a job over here at Ramsey. Yeah, you'll get this job.
It's like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, just let me at it. Put me in, coach.
I mean, come on. Yeah, that, and I got to do the sidekick, and I'm going to be where I want to be in 20 years.
Yes, you've got to do this. Go get it.

Speaker 1 And don't ever, folks, let

Speaker 1 I'm going to double my salary, but I'm going to lose my benefits. The answer to that is, whoo!

Speaker 1 It's not, oh, God, okay?

Speaker 1 It's no.

Speaker 1 People get, they become slaves to benefits. That's why companies offer them because some people place too high a value on things that mathematically don't have that much value.

Speaker 12 It's convenience. I want someone else to take care of this for me.

Speaker 1 Well, and it's this idea of having a babysitter. You know, I've got somebody that, you know, I don't have to think about it.
And so somebody taking care of me.

Speaker 1 It's a, you don't, you know, and I like the idea of, you know, just being in the real world. So it's a good thing, very good thing.
Jared's in Salt Lake City. Hi, Jared.
What's up?

Speaker 17 Hey, how are you guys?

Speaker 1 Great. How can we help?

Speaker 25 I, just really quick, I've been listening to you for years. My son is in business classes, and he has totally taken on the Ramsey Doctrine.

Speaker 25 I think there's a picture of you in his living room, actually.

Speaker 1 Bless his heart. He needs to get some heart.

Speaker 12 He should call my show because that's not well.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 25 So I've been kind of dabbling, not dabbling, but I've been diving deep myself for about the last three weeks. I got Baby Steps Millionaires on Audible.
So I think it's kind of...

Speaker 1 Jared, I'm going to run out of time. What's your question?

Speaker 25 My question is, Dory,

Speaker 25 my girlfriend, we are getting married

Speaker 25 here pretty quick.

Speaker 25 She's got about $70,000 worth of tax debt from her former marriage. She's kind of discreet about it.
She's embarrassed about it. She's an absolute sweetheart.

Speaker 1 She doesn't pay their taxes, her or her husband?

Speaker 25 Her husband and her both. Like it was a joint.

Speaker 1 Who was filing the taxes?

Speaker 17 Her husband was.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Investigate, get with a tax professional, preferably even a tax attorney, and investigate what's called the innocent spouse provision.

Speaker 1 And that is designed for something that's like this. Like the husband's running a business and she just signs the returns.
They don't even know what's going on.

Speaker 1 And then he screws it up and runs it in the ditch and there's a $70,000 bill. But she really signed everything and they've married filing jointly, but she didn't really know what was going on.
And

Speaker 1 that's what the innocent spouse provisions is about. And they will release her if she can make that case, and they will go after only him.

Speaker 17 Okay.

Speaker 25 Yeah, because she was working full-time. Her and I are both school teachers.
She's been teaching school through the whole work.

Speaker 1 Working is not the issue. The issue is, did she know what the flip was going on, or was he running his own little side gig over here, and she blindly signed it?

Speaker 25 Right. Okay.

Speaker 1 That's That's the story. If that's the narrative, the innocent spouse provision, and get with one of our tax ELPs on Ramseysolutions.com, the endorse local providers there for taxes.

Speaker 1 They can help you. And if they can't help you, they'll know who in your market can, and they'll hook you up with a good tax attorney.
It depends on how complicated the case is.

Speaker 1 But for $70,000, you could drop $5,000 clearing this up, and it'd be a good investment in attorneys' fees or tax CPA fees, either one. But don't use one of the people off the stupid cable ads.

Speaker 1 Get a real pro.

Speaker 1 I get it. Switching banks is a pain in the you-know-what.
But if your bank doesn't line up with your money goals, it's time to make the switch to Fairwinds. credit union.

Speaker 1 Listen, you guys know how I feel about big banks. They make money when you stay broke, charging you overdraft fees, pushing credit cards, and telling you debt is normal.

Speaker 1 And that's why I only work with folks who help you, not just profit off of you. Fair wins is different.
They're owned by their members. They're non-profit.
And they share our values.

Speaker 1 They even advertise with billboards saying they want their members to be debt-free. So they built the Smart Checking and Savings Bundle just for Ramsey fans.

Speaker 1 You can open your account online in minutes and here's what you get. Free checking with no minimums and no monthly fees.

Speaker 1 Savings with a high APY to help you in baby step one and beyond and a mobile app that actually makes sense.

Speaker 1 Plus, you also get access to over 33,000 fee-free ATMs and more than 5,000 affiliated branches. nationwide.
So don't settle for a bank that slows your progress down.

Speaker 1 Choose one that's built to help you win with money. Go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey and open your smart bundle today.

Speaker 12 Fairwinds is federally insured by the NCU.

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people

Speaker 1 build wealth, do work that you love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr.
John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.

Speaker 1 He's the number one best-selling author, a PhD in counseling, and host of the really popular Dr. John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks.
Be sure and check him out.

Speaker 1 If you want to figure out that your life is really, really good, just listen to some of his callers.

Speaker 1 You thought your family was crazy? I'm just saying, you could listen to some of his callers.

Speaker 1 You didn't have any idea you were going to be in Jerry Springer, did you?

Speaker 12 Listen, there's a few times I get off the show and I drive home and I call my wife and she's, I can tell she's busy doing something. She's like, what is it?

Speaker 12 And I said, I just need you to know we're doing great.

Speaker 1 We're doing great.

Speaker 1 We're amazing.

Speaker 1 We're amazing. We're doing great.
We're amazing. Matt's in Hartford, Connecticut.
Hey, Matt, how are you?

Speaker 11 Hey, guys. How are you today?

Speaker 1 Better than we deserve. How can I help?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so currently I'm on baby step six, paying off my mortgage.

Speaker 21 Good.

Speaker 18 But if I look at it, I'm currently saving 46% of my income still.

Speaker 1 Where did you get that? We taught you to do that.

Speaker 21 Well, you didn't. You said 15%.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, that's the part. Okay.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 25 So I guess my question, should I reduce that to the 15%?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 25 And just put the rest of it towards the mortgage.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay. But you already knew that.
If I were to do that,

Speaker 21 I did kind of.

Speaker 1 I mean, you knew I was going to say that.

Speaker 13 I just wanted the validation, you know?

Speaker 21 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So here's the thing.

Speaker 1 What we discovered when we developed these baby steps a long, long time ago is I got out an old-fashioned thing called a spreadsheet, and I ran a whole bunch of possible case studies from a single mom making $25,000 to a doctor making $225,000.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And I ran them all down through there and I ran, okay, here's your average house price for that person, average mortgage for that person.

Speaker 1 And if they put 15% away, they can still pay off the house in about seven years on average. If they put 46% away, they can't.
And they end up with a mortgage long term.

Speaker 1 And we know that two things create the first $1 to $5 million in net worth. Once you're debt-free, two things do.
Getting the house paid off is one, and

Speaker 1 systematically saving in your 401k is two. So you're already doing both well.

Speaker 1 We just need to adjust the ratio so you get the house knocked out because as soon as the house knocks out, then 46%, if you want to do that, that's perfectly fine.

Speaker 12 Okay.

Speaker 12 How much do you make, man?

Speaker 18 Between me and my wife, we make $190,000, but I'm also retired military.

Speaker 18 So I also get another $78,000 between my pension and disability per year.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so you're dealing with a quarter million dollars a year.

Speaker 12 How much is left on your mortgage?

Speaker 18 $243,000.

Speaker 1 Oh, you want to be done in no time. Yeah, dude.

Speaker 12 You're going to have your own house. No one can take from you, man.

Speaker 1 And here's the other thing that happens.

Speaker 11 That's what thought is.

Speaker 1 Yeah, here's the other thing that happens is that we can't quantify.

Speaker 1 Even at Ramsey, we don't know what it is. We have the concept and nobody else sees the concept.

Speaker 1 But when you have a paid-for home, something loosens up in your joints, in the way you walk, talk, carry yourself, and you end end up making more money.

Speaker 1 It's the weirdest thing because you don't have to put up with bullcrap off everybody anymore. And so you just start doing the right stuff more often.
There's zero need to be a slave at that point.

Speaker 1 And it's hard to grasp exactly what that does.

Speaker 1 It's hard to grasp how that affects the divorce statistics to not have a mortgage, how it affects the generosity statistics, which affects the divorce statistics, which affects.

Speaker 1 I mean, all of these things play together because

Speaker 1 what we start out with as a math nerd coming up with a way to do stuff like you do, Matt, and I do, because we're both math nerds, we end up realizing that Dr.

Speaker 1 John Deloney's world is adding even more value to what we thought was just mathematically plausible. Yeah.

Speaker 12 There's just something about sitting in your house that no one could take from you. And like it's perfect.

Speaker 12 You say that extra thing in the meeting that may be a little bit contrarian, a little bit sharper, and one of the leaders says, I want that person on my team.

Speaker 12 Or when your boss says, hey, you're going to do this, and you say, man, I got something with my kid. I'm not going to miss that.
Can we do this another time?

Speaker 12 It just releases everybody. I don't know.
It's powerful. I wish we could grasp it.
I'm sure somebody could figure out how to study it. But, man,

Speaker 12 it transforms people's spirits, man.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, the level of anxiety goes down. The

Speaker 1 medications go down.

Speaker 12 People want to be around you.

Speaker 1 I mean, stress-related illnesses

Speaker 1 are, you know, if you map map stress, the increase in stress-related illnesses with the increase in the personal debt load of the average American, they run right together.

Speaker 1 But we can't quantify the actual mathematical savings related with not having those stress-related illnesses. And so, and, you know, that's like hypertension, heart attacks, all that kind of crap.

Speaker 12 Well, here's the other thing for you, Matt. You're talking 24 months.
Yeah, it's nightmare. You all can get pretty serious and have this house paid off in 24 months.

Speaker 1 You're going to be worth $10 or $20 million, depending on how old you are.

Speaker 1 If you run the plan out the way we're talking about right here, it's pretty stinking incredible. Well done, man.
Well done. I'm proud of you.
That's very cool. And thanks for serving your country.

Speaker 1 Appreciate you. All right.
Caitlin is with us in Philadelphia. Hey, Caitlin, what's up?

Speaker 1 Hi.

Speaker 27 Hey, I was calling.

Speaker 27 My husband and I are on Baby Step 2.

Speaker 6 We've had a few years of a lot of transitions.

Speaker 28 Husband lost a job a couple years ago,

Speaker 28 you know, ended up getting some others.

Speaker 5 Long story short, last year we made a move.

Speaker 28 He's pastor and we moved for a position that would give him probably like the most he's ever made. We bought a house.

Speaker 6 We had sold a house, so we bought a house.

Speaker 28 I actually ended up taking a pay cut,

Speaker 28 but we've not been super happy. We've missed where we used to live, and we have an opportunity to move back to where we had been.

Speaker 28 And

Speaker 2 it doesn't have much room for growth, though.

Speaker 5 We live currently outside of a city.

Speaker 28 This position will be rural again. And,

Speaker 28 you know, we're really not going to probably ever end up with that.

Speaker 1 I don't think you're going to be as happy as you thought you were because you left for those same reasons that are still there.

Speaker 12 You have to realize that wherever you move, you and your husband are going to go with you there.

Speaker 12 Yeah.

Speaker 28 A lot of it, though, is like we're in our 40s already. We have

Speaker 28 teenagers. They've not been real happy.

Speaker 12 You know, but

Speaker 12 they're not happy because they're living in a house where their parents aren't happy.

Speaker 12 Yeah. Children absorb the tension in their house.

Speaker 28 This has been more stressful of a situation.

Speaker 5 Like, I do feel like we took on too much mortgage.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 28 So we're struggling, you know, in that area.

Speaker 1 Why don't you buy a cheaper house or stay there?

Speaker 28 So that's my question, I guess.

Speaker 1 Do we

Speaker 1 have to do that?

Speaker 12 I would not recommend uprooting teenagers again and moving across the country again to you went regularly, you went suburban, then you went to urban, and now you're trying to go to rural.

Speaker 12 You're chasing something.

Speaker 12 And until you and your husband go sit down with a marriage counselor and figure out what it is about the world y'all are co-creating together in real time that y'all aren't happy with,

Speaker 12 I wouldn't recommend running across the country. I would recommend what Dave said, sell the house you can't afford and buy a house you can afford or rent a house.

Speaker 1 And stay there other than that. Yeah.
And let's work on peace, solve for peace in the family. Yeah.
I'll send you a copy of Building a Non-Axious Life from John Deloney. I think you'll like it.

Speaker 1 The bottom line of a break-in is more than financial. It also costs you peace of mind.

Speaker 1 So when it comes to protecting your home and the things you've worked so hard for, don't wait for trouble to show up. Plan ahead.
That's why I recommend SimplySafe.

Speaker 1 See, most security systems only do something after someone's already broken in. But by then, it's too late.
SimplySafe's active guard outdoor protection changes all that.

Speaker 1 It's like having a guard at your house who never clocks out. Simply Safe cameras use AI to spot trouble around your property.
And if something doesn't look right, a live agent can step in.

Speaker 1 They can talk to the person, activate a spotlight, and call the police. SimplySafe also helps protect against fires and floods.

Speaker 1 SimplySafe is always working for you, and that restores your peace of mind. It's simple, it works, and it's a smart investment.

Speaker 1 And right now, you can get 50% off a new SimplySafe system with 24/7 professional monitoring at simply safe direct.com. That's 50% off at simply safe direct.com.
There's no safe like SimplySafe.

Speaker 1 Hey guys, if you like what you're hearing around here, we could use your help.

Speaker 1 Turns out the number one marketing thing in the podcast world and in the YouTube world is you.

Speaker 1 When you tell people, when you push the subscribe button, the follow button, the like button, when you share the show by sharing a link or telling people that we're here, hey, go check this show out, however, you do that.

Speaker 1 Some of the platforms have a share button.

Speaker 1 That's fine. Any of that.
And those five-star reviews, thank you. Keep them coming.
We appreciate you.

Speaker 1 All that stuff actually affects a bunch of new people finding out about us, and we appreciate you. The growth rate around here is mind-boggling, and we know that it's because of you.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 So buying and selling a home right now, The market has just strangely warmed up in the past three weeks. I'm interested to see what happens happens in this real estate market.
It's a big deal.

Speaker 1 If you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best deal, the Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust that we have done the due diligence on.

Speaker 1 We're going to interview them. We do the agent profiles.
We want high octane, high protein, high producing, not Aunt Sally who got her license last week.

Speaker 1 And everybody's got freaking Aunt Sally that gets her feelings hurt because you won't list your $600,000 house with a brand new agent just because she's your aunt and she takes time out from her bridge club to show your house.

Speaker 1 Wrong.

Speaker 1 No, to find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent pro for free, go to ramseysolutions.com slash agent or click the description and where you're listening there on the YouTube or on the podcast and we'll hook you straight up.

Speaker 1 And these guys are good. They know what they're doing.
Jay's with us in Canada. Hi, Jay.
How are you?

Speaker 1 I'm doing really good.

Speaker 13 Yourself? Thank you, Dave and John, for taking my call. Sure.
I have a question regarding my wife and I and our personal home.

Speaker 1 Cool. I am,

Speaker 21 yeah, sorry.

Speaker 13 I am a contractor, and over the last eight years, I bought some commercial warehouse bays with the cash flow from the company. I have them rented out to HTRAC, plumbers, electricians.

Speaker 20 The cash flow, a decent return.

Speaker 13 The value is about $750,000. and I currently owe about $300,000 on them.

Speaker 13 My question is, we have a home, home, a personal home that's worth about $700,000, and we owe about $300,000 on it.

Speaker 13 And I'm just wondering if I should be selling the portfolio, just getting rid of it, increasing the debt and the risk, and just paying off that mortgage because it's looming over top of me.

Speaker 13 And I feel like I drank the Kool-Aid a little bit of borrowing money

Speaker 21 for real estate, and I don't want to fall into that trap.

Speaker 1 Good for you. What do you make?

Speaker 13 Around a little under $200, $70-ish, probably.

Speaker 1 Okay, cool. All right.
Well, what I would would do is to map it out and do some math

Speaker 1 sometime this evening or maybe tomorrow night, whichever one you want. And let's look at it two different ways.
Okay.

Speaker 1 How fast can we pay off the house

Speaker 1 if we lean into it without selling? Wait a minute. How many properties are there

Speaker 1 on the commercial?

Speaker 11 There's three.

Speaker 1 There's three different ones, and you gave me the totals, right?

Speaker 21 Yeah, you bet.

Speaker 1 Okay, so there's three possible scenarios. One is keep them, and when you were describing them, you didn't use words that made me think you hate them.
You like those properties, don't you?

Speaker 13 I've had them for eight years. The cash flow, they've been full the whole time.

Speaker 1 That wasn't what I asked. I said you like those properties, don't you?

Speaker 1 Yes. Okay, it's a simple thing.
You like all the things that you just started describing, and they're all good things. I'm a real estate guy.
I love real estate.

Speaker 1 I've got more money tied up in real estate than anything else, so I love it. I'm not against real estate.
I'm just against debt, as you know. So that's the Kool-Aid you've been drinking on.

Speaker 1 Okay, so three possible scenarios. You take your $200,000 income.
You say, if I keep all three of the properties, how long does it take me to pay off my house?

Speaker 1 And then how long does it take me to pay off the other? So you got $600,000. If you did $100,000 a year, it'd take you six years or something like that.

Speaker 1 So probably seven years is the fastest you could possibly clear all of them. Unless your income went up, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay, so that's scenario number one.
Scenario number two is you sell one of the properties, throw it at your house,

Speaker 1 and you're debt-free in

Speaker 1 whatever it ends up being, five years, four and a half years, right? Okay. Scenario number three is you sell all three and you're debt-free tomorrow.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I'm thinking you're probably going to land in the middle one.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 it just kind of takes your breath away to say sell all of them, although you do want to be out of debt, and I want you out of debt.

Speaker 1 But I think you could be out of debt in a reasonable period of time if you lean into this. But you could accelerate the reasonable period of time by dropping one of them, the least favorite one.

Speaker 1 Take that equity, throw it at your house, and I think you're done in four and a half years or so. I might be wrong.

Speaker 1 I'm guessing, looking at these numbers, but that's probably pretty close, depending on how the equities shake out among the three. But

Speaker 1 I would sit down and look at that and just go, okay, which one do I want? Do I want seven years? Do I want four and a half years? Or do I want three and a half months?

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 And the trade-off is I own less of or none of these other rentals in any of these different scenarios.

Speaker 1 And honestly, I think what you're going to find is your stomach and your throat will tighten up while you're looking at these numbers. One set of these, you go, that's not the one I want to do.

Speaker 1 That didn't feel good.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I think that's the one where you sell all three personally because I think you still like these, but you like the idea of being out of debt. And I agree with you on both of those things.

Speaker 1 I like them, and I like the idea of being out of debt.

Speaker 1 But do I want to fight through it for seven years?

Speaker 1 Maybe not.

Speaker 1 Yeah. What are you going to do, man? I'm curious.

Speaker 1 I'm going to pray about it. That's a good thing.
I'm going to.

Speaker 12 You should do that before you call two Yahoo's on a podcast.

Speaker 13 I respect you guys' advice, and I appreciate your time.

Speaker 13 I think I'm going to sell one for sure.

Speaker 20 It's just

Speaker 26 how soon I can, you know, there's some other stuff that works.

Speaker 13 I have a tenant that's got a long term that might be beneficial to

Speaker 3 move, but we'll see.

Speaker 1 He might want to buy it.

Speaker 13 Yep, that is an option.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I don't care. There's a, you just think it through.
But I think

Speaker 1 my point is the prayer is a good thing because one of the things you'll find is

Speaker 1 when God gives you something, it's very peaceful.

Speaker 1 That's right. So if you get an answer or you feel like you're getting an answer in prayer and there's not peace associated with it, it wasn't God.
It was last night's pizza.

Speaker 1 You know what I'm saying? So there's always, that's what I meant by your stomach being tight and your throat being tight. Same thing.

Speaker 1 You just, where there's a sense of peace, that gives you, that's a guidance mechanism.

Speaker 12 Even if the thing you're doing is about to be really difficult and challenging and not pleasurable, you'll still have peace. You still have peace like this is the right move.
Yep.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Exactly.
That's a really good question, Jay.

Speaker 1 But what we're giving you here is not an answer, but a decision-making paradigm, a framework by which you can make these decisions and pull it off.

Speaker 1 And that it applies to a whole lot of different things out there. And,

Speaker 1 you know, I love good real estate. I love it as an investment, but I love it paid for.
And so whatever he ends up with here, I want it to end up paid for.

Speaker 1 And then if he wants to add some more, he adds it with cash as he goes along. And I think he will be able to do that.

Speaker 1 And the types of properties he's describing, I don't know in Canada, but the types of properties properties he's describing in uh nashville tennessee are wonderful type property to own well

Speaker 1 excellent properties it's the track record of eight years always always full yeah yeah cash flowing i just like it i like it i like it a lot so yeah that's the thing so um

Speaker 1 other stuff that is going down in value and that is not an investment but is instead a consumption like a boat Yeah, if he had two boats and an RV and a big truck. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And a four-wheel-drive truck that you don't need.

Speaker 1 No amount of truck will help you with your ego. I'm just telling you.
And I got a big one. Truck that is.
And an ego. I was going to say, yeah.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, none of this stuff is worth keeping. to stay in debt.
That's bullcrap. What we're talking about here is an investment that's going up in value and a guy that likes it.

Speaker 1 Now, if you call me up and you say, I hate being a landlord, well, regardless of what the implications are,

Speaker 1 continue to be a landlord. Sell them all in cash out.
Sell the stupid thing. It's just a rental house.
It's like, oh, I feel dumb. No, you don't feel dumb.
You figured out what you don't like doing.

Speaker 1 A lot of people spend their life not knowing what they don't like doing.

Speaker 12 It's a good thing. Or doing it anyway and not liking it the whole every step of the way.

Speaker 1 Yeah, miserable. And then you make excellent trolls on the internet

Speaker 1 because you ain't got anything else to do except be miserable. And then you want to bring everybody with you on your trip, your miserable trip, your trip down miserable lane, miserable people.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 29 When you go through a job loss or job change and lose your employer-sponsored health insurance, there's no better time to try Christian health care ministries.

Speaker 29 That's right, there's another option besides Cobra to take care of your family during that time. Because if you didn't know, the cost of COBRA has gone up a lot in the past few years.

Speaker 29 And CHM is an affordable, biblically based alternative to health insurance. So do your own research.
CHM is a great option that's potentially a third of the price of COBRA.

Speaker 29 It's a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981.

Speaker 29 And the support you get from CHM goes beyond helping you pay for medical bills. Members become part of a family that prays for them when they have a medical event.
Try getting that with Cobra.

Speaker 29 So if you're going through a job loss, life change, or just want to explore other options to save on healthcare, CHM might be perfect for you.

Speaker 29 CHM programs start as low as $98 a month, so find out more at chministries.org/slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget.

Speaker 1 Thanks for joining us, America. We're really glad you are with us.
The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YReFi.

Speaker 1 If you're ready to stop drowning in private student loan debt, we found a way. It's a company called YReFi.
They throw you a rope.

Speaker 1 Talk to YReFi and see if refinancing your defaulted student loans is a good way for you to get rid of the debt. Low fixed rate, fits in your budget, all that stuff.
Talk to them. Why refi?

Speaker 1 That's the letter why

Speaker 1 R-E-F-Y

Speaker 1 dot com slash Ramsey might not be in all states.

Speaker 12 Today's question comes from Kate in Michigan. I'm a marketing professional in my early 20s.
I started my own business and I earn over $150,000 a year.

Speaker 1 Congratulations, Kate.

Speaker 12 I have close to $125,000 saved as a down payment on my first house. I've always wanted to be a homeowner and I'm confident this is what I want to do.

Speaker 12 But a lot of people around me are pressuring me to not buy a home. Oh, good gravy.
Because of Christian beliefs that girls,

Speaker 12 I'll just, I'm reading it how she wrote it. That girls shouldn't buy a home and men should be providers.

Speaker 12 I don't have a boyfriend, so I'm not getting close. Dude, I can't finish this.
I'm not even close to getting married. What would you advise your daughter to do?

Speaker 1 Leave the cult.

Speaker 12 Leave whatever madness and misrepresentation of Christian beliefs and ethics and right and wrong immediately.

Speaker 1 That is not a Christian belief, darling. No.
That's a cult belief.

Speaker 12 God almighty. I would advise my daughter to buy a house with $125,000 she has saved as a downtown.

Speaker 1 And keep being the stud at that you are and hope that some guy is lucky enough to even catch your eye. Oh my God.

Speaker 1 Jesus is so fast ackwards. You people, unbelievable.
Some of y'all are just really screwed up and then you put a cross over the top of it. You kill me.

Speaker 1 You make the rest of us that love Jesus look like we're morons because you're a moron when you do stuff like this. That's just nuts.

Speaker 1 I can't, this burns my butt.

Speaker 1 I don't have any words to say or it's just, I hate bad doctrine and bad theology and how it affects people when they get in toxic situations.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, darling. Your mother and father have misled you.
Leave the cult.

Speaker 12 Yes.

Speaker 1 Because that's where this crap's coming from.

Speaker 12 I mean, I don't have any other words to say that aren't going to get me.

Speaker 1 I don't.

Speaker 1 You don't think I'm not going to get it? I don't give a crap. This is stupid.
I've been doing this a long time. What are you going to do? Get mad at me and leave?

Speaker 1 I mean, you and I guess that'll leave us only 60 million listeners. Oh, well, okay.
Darn.

Speaker 1 Is this real? Oh, it's definitely real. You were on a podcast the other day.

Speaker 12 I was. You're right.

Speaker 12 When we were traveling. You're right, you're right, you're right.

Speaker 1 You were in the middle of one of these dadgum things.

Speaker 1 You know who usually start.

Speaker 12 Okay,

Speaker 12 you know who says this crap? Men

Speaker 12 who are are afraid of losing control of

Speaker 12 women like this.

Speaker 1 And they're not as ambitious and they don't have as much get up and go. And so they even stand up next to a motherfucker.

Speaker 12 They take their insecurity and fear and try to duct tape Jesus on the top of it to keep their crumbling kingdoms from coming out from under them. Kate, you're amazing.

Speaker 1 Good for you. Kate, you're an absolute incredible human being.
Jesus. Go shine, girl.
Go shine and just pray.

Speaker 1 Have some God pray that he finds a woman as good as you to sign up with. Oh, my gosh.
I mean, if you've got a son out there and you're looking for it, I mean, Kate is a good one. In Michigan.

Speaker 1 Well, she's former cult.

Speaker 1 She doesn't have that.

Speaker 12 She'll have some counseling necessary

Speaker 12 to get out of this cult is going to be painful for a minute.

Speaker 1 Darling, you are.

Speaker 1 I'm looking a little bit melodramatic, but not much. But not really.

Speaker 12 I am going to strongly encourage my daughter to, A, I'm going to give her a picture of what a healthy marriage looks like because I want her to think I want to be a part of that institution.

Speaker 12 I want to be a part of this thing because my mom and my dad laugh a lot. They've got a ton of joy.
Their finances work together. All the stuff that the data tells us.

Speaker 12 I want her to have a ringside seat of how amazing this thing is that my mom and my dad have. That's number one.
Number two, I'm going to teach my daughter how to work hard.

Speaker 12 I'm going to teach my daughter how to do things on her own, learn how to do stuff, change attire, fix a faucet, work really hard outside.

Speaker 12 She was out doing some crazy hot yard work the other day. She's nine, and I pay her well and take care of it.
Anyway, I want her to be able to know how to do it.

Speaker 1 She's going to the salt mines on Friday. She's not doing that.

Speaker 12 That's where my son is right now. But I want her to know how to do hard stuff.
And yes, dude, if she says, Dad, I want to start my own business. I think I can make $150K a year.

Speaker 12 I will be shoving.

Speaker 12 Her mom and I will be pushing each other to see who's going to be the biggest cheerleader. And we're going to say, go get it.
And if she says, Dad, I have $125,000 as a down payment.

Speaker 12 I don't have any men that are worth my time yet i'll say can i go house shopping with you that's what i would say to my daughter period end of story ding ding ding ta-da god this gets me fired up dad

Speaker 1 man uh i think we probably ought to stop heidi's in casper wyoming hey heidi what's up

Speaker 1 oh not much thanks for taking my call sure how can we help

Speaker 27 my husband and i are debt-free and we about two and a half years ago sold a business and have kind of taken the last two and a half years to just figure out what we want to do in life.

Speaker 27 And he has recently gone back to work, needed some purpose, went back to work

Speaker 27 doing something he loves, something he cares about. So he does home inspection.
And he went to work for

Speaker 8 a guy.

Speaker 27 And

Speaker 1 he

Speaker 4 has been there for let's say four and a half months.

Speaker 27 And he loves it. It's been great.

Speaker 9 Recently, he has asked for a few days off.

Speaker 27 And

Speaker 27 essentially, the employer has denied him taking any time off.

Speaker 9 And he's not asking for paid time off.

Speaker 27 He's just asking for a few days here and there so that we can enjoy our family.

Speaker 9 We have kids that are almost out of the house, and we'd like to take the time to

Speaker 27 create memories during that,

Speaker 27 during the summers and stuff. And

Speaker 27 he has denied him taking any time. He doesn't make great money.

Speaker 27 but again, he loves it, and so it makes it worth doing it for him.

Speaker 9 He has the opportunity to actually, he has all the skills to go do it on his own.

Speaker 27 And he is going to have a con would like to have a conversation with the employer and say, look,

Speaker 27 here's, can we make something work?

Speaker 27 But he's pretty certain that he's going to say, no, that's not going to work morally.

Speaker 27 So my question is, morally, would it be wrong, he didn't sign an on-compete for him to open his own and do home inspections for himself?

Speaker 1 No, not at all. And that's what he should do, as long as he doesn't take clients from his former employer.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So if the former employer works with Susie Q, real estate agent, and Susie Q gives him

Speaker 1 all of her sales for inspections, you can't use her.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 You can't steal from the guy contacts that you found by working for him. That would be unethical.

Speaker 12 Okay. And for whatever it's worth, I want to put another

Speaker 12 here. I am sympathizing with the business owner.

Speaker 12 When my residence life staff worked for me at the university, they all knew nobody can take vacation in August because we have thousands of young people moving in, and it is day in and day out until we get these buildings ready.

Speaker 12 And everybody knew that. So if a part of the home inspection business is the the chaos months or June, July, and August,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 not even that. If the part of the home inspection business is this guy hired you to work full-time and you don't want to work full-time,

Speaker 1 that's on you. That's not on him.
He's not being unreasonable.

Speaker 1 He's not being unreasonable. Right.
And he

Speaker 1 hired a guy to work full-time, and a guy doesn't want to work full-time.

Speaker 12 Yeah, and if he said it's flexible and takes a time off,

Speaker 1 well, I think we didn't have a good definition of flexible.

Speaker 12 Right. He might say it's flexible in November and December, right?

Speaker 1 Or he might say it's flexible one day every six months. And you guys want to take, you guys want to take five days a week.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't know what flexible means, but I don't think y'all do. I've only asked for three days.
I know, but in your mind, that's perfectly reasonable.

Speaker 1 But you're financially independent and used to be self-employed. This guy actually thought he hired an employee.

Speaker 1 Right. So, no, you're being unreasonable.

Speaker 1 He has a reasonable right to ask the guy, ask your husband to work full-time.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 except for the part where we didn't both agree agree on what flexible meant.

Speaker 1 But I don't use that word around here because I'm not.

Speaker 12 He tried yoga and it was a disaster.

Speaker 1 I broke the yoga.

Speaker 1 Ruth is in Philadelphia. Hey, Ruth, how are you?

Speaker 1 Hi, Dave. Hey, what's up?

Speaker 23 Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

Speaker 23 My 20-year-old son passed away about four months ago.

Speaker 1 Oh, no, what happened? Motorcycle accident. Oh,

Speaker 1 Ruth, what was his name?

Speaker 1 Elijah.

Speaker 12 Elijah, good kid.

Speaker 1 Yes, great kid. Pretty amazing.
Hard worker.

Speaker 12 I'm so sorry. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 7 Between some money that he had saved, because he was a good saver, he had done your program,

Speaker 23 and then there was a life insurance policy we didn't know on him. We even left with about $95,000.

Speaker 23 My husband and I have $21,000 left on our house, and we didn't know, and that's the step we're on. Do we just pay off the house, or do we need to sit and wait longer?

Speaker 23 My husband does have a little reservation because it hasn't we haven't gotten a police report and he's like, what if somebody wants to sue us?

Speaker 9 We were told originally from the the first cop that it was not our son's fault, but we don't have anything in writing that says that.

Speaker 12 Is there an open case against you?

Speaker 23 No, not that we know of.

Speaker 12 I would call the investigator of the accident. Was there another vehicle involved?

Speaker 23 Yes.

Speaker 23 Someone hit our son.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 12 Is there going to be an additional suit at a later time?

Speaker 23 We don't know of anything. We were told we last were told it was going to the prosecutor's office.

Speaker 12 No, will you be filing a suit at some time?

Speaker 23 We hadn't thought about that.

Speaker 12 Against the person who hit your son?

Speaker 23 We hadn't even thought about that.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 12 If you're worried about a legal implication, I would get advice from an attorney if y'all have one.

Speaker 12 If you're considering a suit down the road and thinking through all that kind of stuff, four months is,

Speaker 12 I always tell people, don't do anything for six months.

Speaker 12 If you're itching to do a thing, maybe find a small cause to donate to or something like that.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't even do that right now. Yeah, but I wouldn't do nothing for I don't think I don't think money is an issue right now in your life.
A broken heart is an issue in your life.

Speaker 2 But we don't need to pay the house up yet.

Speaker 1 Not yet. I would set the money in a high-yield savings account and just forget it's there

Speaker 1 until it's at least six months old, until the tragedy is at least six months old. Because it takes about that long to even get a full breath.
You can't even get your lungs full right now still.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 1 Right. No, I agree.

Speaker 1 And I can't imagine being in this situation, but I do know that even as clear-thinking and decisive as I am, I don't think I would be in, I know I would be in a debilitated state to make great decisions.

Speaker 1 I think looking in from the outside, paying off the house is kind of a no-brainer. I don't think it's a big deal at all.

Speaker 1 I mean, $95,000 minus 21, even if you've got some legal things, you're going to have enough. But I just don't think you need to worry about it right now.
That's my point.

Speaker 1 Okay. I think it's good just for you and your husband to be holding each other and crying right now.

Speaker 12 Ruth,

Speaker 12 unfortunately, I've had the honor and the heartbreak to sit with a lot of parents in this situation. Let me ask you this.
I often hear some semblance of this story.

Speaker 12 There's an emptiness and I feel like I need to do something. Does that encapsulate your story, or are you feeling something different?

Speaker 7 No, I feel like I do need to do something.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 12 I would challenge you and your husband to do something either together or somebody else or by yourselves, but find a thing to just plug into and say for three months, I'm going to plug into this thing.

Speaker 12 Local library, reading at an elementary school.

Speaker 12 I'm going to volunteer at a summer camp two hours a day, just doing a thing that will get you up and moving to do a thing, and then you can go back home and get back under the covers

Speaker 12 okay otherwise you can end up just scrolling and scrolling and thinking well do I need to do this and do I need to do this and that pressure becomes anxiety over time you start worrying about things into the future and so find a small thing for you just to

Speaker 12 lack of better terms I wish I had a lot a nicer way to say this just discharge some energy into a thing that will be positively oriented something that will help somebody

Speaker 1 are you guys in a good church

Speaker 1 we are we are good so So you got a good community crying with you?

Speaker 3 We do. And we have older children.
And I do.

Speaker 23 I am pouring something to my father.

Speaker 9 I have a 95-year-old father.

Speaker 6 I'm helping take care of.

Speaker 1 Great. Yeah, that's a positive.
Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 12 But that can also come with its own set of grief, too, right?

Speaker 3 It will.

Speaker 23 Yeah, it does. Yeah.

Speaker 12 So even if it's as simple, can I tell you something my parents did, and they didn't even tell me they did this. I found this out secondhand.
They got in a car. They live

Speaker 12 in central Texas. They got in their car and drove a couple hours and picked up somebody who lost most of their house.

Speaker 12 They picked up all the laundry in the house, nine trash sacks, and drove it all the way back to their house. And they're just doing laundry for the next week.
They live in Texas.

Speaker 12 They felt like they needed to do something with these floods. And they have very limited resources.
And they got up in the car and they did a small thing.

Speaker 12 It ended up being a huge thing for that family. And they didn't tell anybody.
They didn't even tell me they did that. And so finding, I come and do somebody's laundry.

Speaker 12 Me and husband, we're going to go mow one lawn a week together. Something that will get you out of your head and just go do a thing for somebody and then come back.

Speaker 12 And then two months, three months after y'all have decided are we going to sue somebody? Are we going to let this thing go? Do we have a police report? Then you can start making your next steps.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 Preston's in Columbus, Ohio. Hey, Preston, how are you?

Speaker 25 Hey, I'm doing fantastic. How are you?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 13 So my primary question, is it more important to follow your baby steps exactly, or is it more important that me and my wife agree on how to get out of debt?

Speaker 12 Baby steps. Forget your what? I'm totally kidding.
Totally kidding.

Speaker 1 It's more important that you don't pose two negatives.

Speaker 12 Right.

Speaker 1 You've put your only two options.

Speaker 12 In an impossible cage.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Fair enough.
How about third option? We both sit down and talk about our goals and how we're going to get there long enough that we agree on the way we're going to get there.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So this is not an argument about the baby steps. This is an argument about power.

Speaker 25 I hadn't considered that.

Speaker 17 I appreciate that perspective.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, I mean, the baby steps are correct. Obviously, I'm going to say that.

Speaker 1 And because I've got 10 million, 20 million people that have followed them and had great results and followed them exactly. And so, no, I'm not going to tell you to deviate from that.

Speaker 1 But that's a spirit of legalism, and that doesn't get, that's not the spirit we want to get.

Speaker 1 We need to get a spirit of alignment, but if we can't get alignment on something that's smart, there's got to be an underlying reason for that.

Speaker 1 And let's get the underlying reason for the lack of alignment out in the open, which is a power struggle. And let's try to get to the bottom of that and figure out why.

Speaker 1 Because you're probably, if you're disagreeing about something like arguing about the baby steps,

Speaker 1 there's probably some other stuff that's out of align.

Speaker 12 This may be the 10th scheme, and your wife has said, I'm not doing that. Or it might be she wants to pay this one credit card that's been haunting her.
You're like, no, it's exactly what you said.

Speaker 12 It's about power. Who's going to be right? And let's put the right or wrong aside and say, how can we be united? And usually that stuff takes care of itself.

Speaker 1 And, you know, the interesting thing is, if it's something like that, which credit card? That's such a temporary non-issue. Correct.
Correct. Such a temporary non-issue.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 the big things are

Speaker 1 how are we going to become wealthy and get out of debt? Right. And, you know, what's the best way to do that?

Speaker 1 Let's get after it. And so, you know, if you do this and do this and do this, and and we're going to do it with enthusiasm, then have at it.

Speaker 1 But the most efficient way is to do the different things, the nuanced things that we talk about while you're doing the baby steps.

Speaker 1 Like, for instance, it's not a baby step, but if you keep getting a tax return, one of the things that people do is they adjust their withholding to where they get the proper amount coming home and they have more money coming home to get out of debt with.

Speaker 1 That's not a baby step.

Speaker 1 Whether you keep your car or not, a too expensive a car that's in debt. You know, that's not a baby step, but we're looking at, okay, we own a car that's $50,000 and we make $40,000.

Speaker 1 Well, that's not a baby step thing. That's just stupid.
Just bad math, you know, and so on. And so there's all these different things you've got to look at.
I've got a whole life policy.

Speaker 1 It's got $24,000 in it. Good.
Get some term insurance in place, which is the proper amount of life insurance to get 10 to 12 times your income. And term insurance that costs you nothing.

Speaker 1 And get that $24,000 and throw it at your debt. These are things that people do while they're doing the baby steps.

Speaker 12 Trevor Burrus, Jr.: But if somebody comes at their spouse and attacks them with the baby steps,

Speaker 12 it's not uncommon that we hear somebody try to throw something in the gears just to say, I want to have a say too.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah, my vote counts.
Right. My voice counts.
Right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 14 Does having more money and less stress sound nice but feel impossible?

Speaker 14 Well, in my brand new book, Breaking Free from Broke, I share my story of going from broke to millionaire and exactly how I did it.

Speaker 14 You'll learn about the money traps and cultural lies out there designed to keep you brainwashed and stressed out, from credit card schemes to mortgage myths to investing traps.

Speaker 14 So, if you're not where you want to be financially, I can help you finally get ahead. You can get breaking free from broke today at ramseysolutions.com/slash/store.

Speaker 14 That's ramseysolutions.com/slash/store.

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love,

Speaker 1 and create actual amazing relationships. Dr.
John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, is my co-host today.
Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 1 Open phones at 888-825-5225. Emma is in Portland, Oregon.
Hi, Emma. How are you?

Speaker 7 Hi, I'm doing well. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Good. How can we help?

Speaker 23 Okay, I have a medical insurance syndrome. I'm hoping you guys can give me your expertise on.

Speaker 23 Married, 39, my husband, 45. We have two kids, a 13-year-old and an eight-year-old.
I was recently laid off in April of this year from my job of almost 20 years. I knew it was coming.
That's okay.

Speaker 23 I did receive a very nice severance package. So I will have 100% pay and benefits for my entire family through November of this year.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 23 My husband, full-time employed as well.

Speaker 23 So I carried the medical benefits. I hit the ground hard, got a job, started last week, and very close to the same pay I was at, sat down to do my benefits with my new place of employment.

Speaker 23 And the plan that I originally wanted to select is not an option because I already am holding medical benefits from my past employer.

Speaker 8 So my two options are.

Speaker 1 You can cancel those.

Speaker 23 I can't cancel them. And if I do cancel them, My old place of employment will want a lump sum pay me my severance instead of keeping the bi-weekly normal paychecks who cares coming.

Speaker 12 Is it a different amount?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 9 They would just get hit pretty hard with taxes.

Speaker 1 No, you know. Tax is exactly the same.

Speaker 1 Withholding is different, but taxes are the same.

Speaker 12 Explain the difference of that, Dave.

Speaker 1 Okay. So when you do a lump sum or when you get like a huge bonus check,

Speaker 1 we employers are required to withhold more of it at a greater rate, as if you were making more money than you're really making, which is IRS double talk for bull crap.

Speaker 1 But anyway, we're required to do that. So if you've got currently, you know, 15% being withheld, we might have to withhold 20%.

Speaker 1 But it doesn't change your actual taxes when you file them at the end of the year. You're going to get it all back.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So can you select the option at the new employer and it start immediately that you like?

Speaker 23 I can if I don't have those other. If I select no, I don't have another.

Speaker 1 I know. But you can't cancel if it's not going to start the next week.

Speaker 23 Yes, they're going to retro it back to July 1st. Yep.

Speaker 1 Okay, so if you went to your former and canceled, you could sign up for this and you would have full coverage immediately.

Speaker 23 Yes, which would be much cheaper

Speaker 23 than the only plan that I would qualify then at my new place of employment.

Speaker 23 I just have the dilemma of I didn't want to pay double insurance, because it would be an extra $500.

Speaker 1 No, you shouldn't pay double insurance.

Speaker 1 You can cancel the insurance with the former employer. Call up your old HR and say, I need ⁇ and send them an email.
It says, I need to cancel it effective this date.

Speaker 1 Okay. And that date needs to be the date that your new employer insurance starts.
Can that occur?

Speaker 1 Okay. Can you do that?

Speaker 23 I can call and do that.

Speaker 1 No, no, I'm saying, can your new insurance start on a set date at the new place the day that you have officially made your other one cancel?

Speaker 1 Yes. So you're not going to go a day without insurance the way we're describing this, correct?

Speaker 1 Correct. Good.
Okay. That's what you need to do.
Yes. Then let the former employer know you don't have to pay for my health insurance anymore.
Good for you.

Speaker 23 I mean, I know that's what they want, right? Like they would prefer us to call and do the long-term payout.

Speaker 12 All right, so Emma, that was my question. How much of this you want them to pay because they fired you for 20 years?

Speaker 12 I mean, no, not really.

Speaker 11 It wasn't bad.

Speaker 23 Every time I've gotten a bonus over the last 17 years, we have those employees and colleagues that are like, I'm changing my withholdings.

Speaker 23 I'm going to get my full bonus. That's never been me.
I'm like, you know what? No, let them take as much because I don't want to see it back.

Speaker 1 Withholding, though, you're going to be taxed at exactly, when you file your taxes at the end of the year, you pay taxes on your income, regardless of what, of how the income was paid to you, whether it was paid bi-weekly or in a lump sum.

Speaker 1 Your income tax at the end of the year is exactly the same either way. The only difference is when they pay out a a lump sum, they are required to over withhold.

Speaker 1 But that means you're going to get a tax refund is what that means.

Speaker 1 Okay, what's that like? Yeah, really. It's awesome.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this one time, just this one time. But yeah, but we've solved, but in the process, we've also solved the health insurance problem.
So, yeah, that's a misnomer.

Speaker 1 A lot of people believe that you actually get taxed higher on bonuses, but you don't get taxed higher. You just have more withheld as if you're going to be taxed higher,

Speaker 12 but you don't end up paying all of that in tax when you do your filing and here's one other just again I don't have any data to back this up this is just wisdom from your brother John

Speaker 12 there's something about you're gonna pay me out this every month for the next year and you can't heal from that company that let you go after 20 years until you stop taking a check from them.

Speaker 12 There's something about take that lump sum. If you've got insurance that you said it's cheaper, it's going to be the same plan.

Speaker 12 cut ties of this place and start healing from that and don't let them continue to, it feels like you're winning, you're not winning anything.

Speaker 12 Just move on from it, take that check and get on about your life. Just not about setting it all free.

Speaker 1 Being free is a good thing. It sure is.
So that's a good question. And I think we've...

Speaker 12 I did not know that. That's good to know.

Speaker 1 If you clear it up, the math on it, then it helps you to make, it helps you just to get down to, okay, is there any emotion driving the decision? And if there's not, then that's okay.

Speaker 1 But if there is, then you do have the benefit of putting the whole thing in your rearview mirror by getting the lump sum. I like that.
That's kind of the rip the bandaid off thing.

Speaker 1 And you get to start healing.

Speaker 12 And you're right. The company will save some money by paying you out.

Speaker 1 They'll not have any health insurance.

Speaker 12 You're right. That's great.

Speaker 1 And it gives you a better deal, too.

Speaker 1 So, yeah,

Speaker 1 I'm going that way. And that way I don't have any laps in coverage because I don't want Murphy.
You know, if it can go wrong, it will hanging around these coverage lapses.

Speaker 1 That's about the time, you know, you have a kidney stone or something, and you get an $8,000 bill in that one-week period of time or something. It's just, that's nuts.
So yeah, you've got to.

Speaker 12 So tell me about the,

Speaker 12 it's not commission checks.

Speaker 12 But if you get a commission check. If you get a huge commission check.

Speaker 1 Is there a lot of amount?

Speaker 1 It's a ratio to your income. So basically, you've got a W-2, and when you're on a salary or a steady,

Speaker 1 you get the steady. But if there's a large bonus,

Speaker 1 it's almost like the game show tax. Only the game show tax is actually a tax.
It's just withholding. So it's not like that at all.
Anyway,

Speaker 1 and I don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head because they've changed them. But we have to do it here.
So if we've got a situation where

Speaker 1 somebody earns a large check.

Speaker 12 I have a wild month.

Speaker 1 You have a wild, wonderful month. Yeah, you're going to get a different withholding.
You're probably not because yours is probably all over the place anyway. It is, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but if it's you're going along steady and then you get this bump,

Speaker 1 like a $10,000 bonus at the end of the year and you make you know, 50,000, 60,000 bucks. You know, that's going to get hit heavier than your regular check is in February.

Speaker 1 But it's only on the amount they withhold as if, because they treat it as if you're making $10,000 a month now, and you're not. They calculate it wrong.
It's the IRS, for God's sakes.

Speaker 1 They don't do anything right. So,

Speaker 1 and if you work for them, I'm talking to you. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Why is it that when warm weather hits, people start losing their common sense? They swipe credit cards left and right, saying, I need

Speaker 1 a vacation. I deserve this.

Speaker 1 But by August, they're stuck cleaning up a mess. Listen to me carefully.
You don't need to spend five grand on beach trips and theme park tickets to make family memories. Here's the deal.

Speaker 1 Instead of having the summer you deserve, have the summer you can afford. That means planning ahead with the Every Dollar Budget A.
It helps you track spending and give every single dollar a job.

Speaker 1 That way you make sure the essentials are covered and have some fun without making a money mess. Look, you got to start bossing your money around or else it'll always be the boss of you.

Speaker 1 Download every dollar today.

Speaker 1 Hey, are you staying on track with your baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you.

Speaker 1 Simply head over to the show notes and click the link titled, Are You on Track with the Baby Steps? and complete the quick free quiz. And we'll help you get on track, baby.

Speaker 1 Ah, Keith Kagan is with us in San Angelo, Texas. Hey, Kagan, how are you?

Speaker 1 Good.

Speaker 11 Thanks for saying my name right, actually.

Speaker 1 I was trying to not mess it up. They helped me phonetically and everything.
Occasionally, I can get it, but what's up? How can we help?

Speaker 3 So I'm 32 years old.

Speaker 16 I make $70,000 a year

Speaker 16 and I'm about $120,441 in debt.

Speaker 30 And it's all consumer.

Speaker 16 Well, I actually have, my wife has $16,000 in student loan.

Speaker 16 And I'm just wondering the best way to tackle this debt.

Speaker 11 I'm following the baby steps. We started about a month ago, and I'm like $4,000 in.
We just paid off one of the credit cards and some medical debt.

Speaker 1 Good.

Speaker 1 So what is $120,000 in debt? $16,000 was student loans.

Speaker 16 $16,061.45 is student loan. I've got $11,079.16 on credit cards.

Speaker 16 Truck, $24,801.47.

Speaker 16 And then the biggest one is $67,718.18 on an RV

Speaker 11 that we live in.

Speaker 1 You live in?

Speaker 16 We live in it, yeah.

Speaker 12 Tell me about that.

Speaker 16 We were living in the Austin area, and my income

Speaker 16 before we moved here was a lot lower and a lot more inconsistent.

Speaker 16 So we started living in an RV, and it saved us a lot of money. And before we moved here, we bought this new RV thinking we were upgrading our lives.

Speaker 16 And it turns out we were just strapping ourselves to a big piece of metal.

Speaker 12 Yeah, that's depreciating underneath you every night you go to sleep.

Speaker 1 What's it worth now? Yeah,

Speaker 16 it's worth about $51,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. Does your wife work outside the home, sir?

Speaker 1 She's babysitting my sister's kids right now.

Speaker 16 She makes, like, she's bringing in like $600

Speaker 11 a month, and she's wanting to start working in August.

Speaker 1 Yeah, have you guys got kids?

Speaker 16 We've got one kid. He's two years old.

Speaker 1 Okay. So she starts working working in August.
What's she make?

Speaker 16 We're thinking she's going to be pulling in about $16 an hour there.

Speaker 1 Good. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 17 we're pretty frugal.

Speaker 16 We're floating this. And I usually...

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't think you guys are out buying coach purses. I can tell.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 the way I answer stuff here is

Speaker 1 I say, what would I do if I were in your shoes and why, so that you know the why, not just Dave said, okay?

Speaker 1 What I want to solve for, if I'm you, is I want to get back to a place where I have control of my life again to be able to move forward. Right now, an RV and a truck control my life.

Speaker 1 You correct.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 I'm going to do some painful things to step back

Speaker 1 to set myself up to step forward. I don't want to just do them to do them.
I want to do it so that I get free to be able to move forward.

Speaker 1 Because if you don't have an RV payment and you don't have a truck payment and you have a small apartment rent instead,

Speaker 1 this thing turns around pretty quick.

Speaker 1 Oh, I know.

Speaker 17 Well, we look at the map and see how capable we are.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, you guys could be making $100,000 living in a cheap one-bedroom apartment for one year and clean up every bit of this by selling the truck and the RV.

Speaker 12 And you can get a nice house in San Angelo, Texas.

Speaker 1 Two years from now.

Speaker 12 And I know that because I got family that live there.

Speaker 1 Two years from now. Really? Yeah.

Speaker 12 It's a reasonable place. It's a great place to raise a family, man.

Speaker 1 Good low cost of living, yeah.

Speaker 1 We're pretty comfortable. A lot more comfortable here than we were.

Speaker 11 The issue I'm having when I'm looking at selling the truck or the RV is the truck's upside down as well as the RV. Yeah.

Speaker 1 How bad is your credit?

Speaker 16 My credit's not bad. It's around 730, 750.

Speaker 1 Swing down the credit union and borrow the difference. I'd rather be $9,000 in the hole.
I have a personal loan for $9,000 and the RV's gone than I would be $67,000.

Speaker 1 So you're saying borrow $9,000?

Speaker 1 You said you could sell it for

Speaker 1 if you sold it whatever down amount of time. Borrow the difference.
Borrow the difference.

Speaker 11 Borrow the difference.

Speaker 1 Assuming you can get the thing sold, you know, and all that. But the same thing's true with the truck.
What do you think the truck's worth?

Speaker 16 Last night I checked it's anywhere between $16,000 and $21,000, depending on condition.

Speaker 1 Yeah, good. So if you could get $21,000 out of it, that makes it only three in the hole.
That's pretty sweet.

Speaker 1 So if you got a $15,000 loan at the credit union, you got rid of these two loans.

Speaker 1 Now we're down to a little bit of credit card debt, a student loan, and a credit union loan to get to get back to zero.

Speaker 1 And when you got no payments in the world a few months after that, like another year roughly,

Speaker 1 then at that point, you're completely debt-free. Now, both of you together are making $100K.
You save up a good down payment on a house.

Speaker 1 Okay. And you drive a beater.

Speaker 1 But you drive like no one else and you live like no one else so that later you can live like no one else and drive like no one else.

Speaker 1 This is exactly what my wife and I did 30 years ago when we went broke.

Speaker 30 I'm honestly at this point looking forward to driving that beach.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 12 But here's the thing. Because you got out of Austin and you live in San Angelo, you can move over there west of Grape Creek Road and get yourself two acres and a small house

Speaker 1 for a couple hundred thousand dollars.

Speaker 12 That would be two million dollars in Austin.

Speaker 1 So you can have that life you want.

Speaker 12 It's right there. You just have to have

Speaker 1 three years to get there.

Speaker 12 Some really uncomfortable conversations.

Speaker 1 Three years to get there. And you get the benefit of not living in an RV the whole time, which is pretty cool.

Speaker 16 Yeah, my wife's totally on board with this. She's been a

Speaker 16 big help. She does all the cooking and everything, and she paints everything from scratch.

Speaker 1 It's awesome. I'm going to give you Financial Peace University.

Speaker 1 I'm going to give you a total money makeover book, and I'm going to give you a year of every dollar free as our gift to you because I think you're really going to go do this, and I want to help you.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 1 Go to the credit union tomorrow on this. Yeah, go to the credit union, start working on where you can borrow this money to cover these differences.

Speaker 1 If the truck is with the credit union or the RVs with the credit union, ask them to let you just sign a note for the difference

Speaker 1 because they're already negative, they already don't have collateral to cover their loan as it is. They might as well admit it and turn it into a personal loan.

Speaker 1 But if they're with the RV company or the Ford Motor, you're screwed. They're not going to do that, okay? But you have to go borrow it somewhere else.
But I would rather you have

Speaker 1 $10,000 in credit card debt because you sold the RV,

Speaker 1 $10,000 more in credit card debt because you sold the RV than $67,000 on the RV. That's a good trade.
It's a really good trade because you're going to get it paid off that much faster.

Speaker 1 You got your cash back. You got your flow back.
So you hang on. Our team will pick up and we'll get you signed up for all that stuff I just gave you.

Speaker 1 And you call us back anytime we can help you because you're exactly why this show exists, just for you.

Speaker 1 We've helped millions of people just like you. That's why we're here.
So you call anytime, dude. That's what we're here for.

Speaker 1 It's good when you

Speaker 1 are ready that the teacher appears, huh?

Speaker 12 Well, when you, yeah, there's that moment. And you can, I don't know how

Speaker 12 it happens, Dave, but you can hear it in the voice of a caller, like, oh, this person's going to go do it. And it's that mixture of fatigue and fired up.
And I'll do whatever.

Speaker 12 I'll do whatever I got to do. And I'll sell the house up from underneath us.
And you know what he's also selling? A dream. Yeah.
He's selling a dream.

Speaker 12 I'm selling all this stuff because it's not working. I got a two-year-old.
It's time for me to move on.

Speaker 1 My plan didn't work. I'm selling that.

Speaker 12 I'm selling all of it.

Speaker 1 The whole package.

Speaker 12 My Austin dream. I'm going to get a camper in Austin and do the Austin thing.

Speaker 12 And I'm back on Austin. I love Austin, but it's, it just, I'm selling all of it.
I'm tired. I want peace.
And, man, when you get there, you can hear it on somebody's voice over the phone.

Speaker 12 And it's fantastic.

Speaker 1 You know, part of it is

Speaker 1 no one wins with money until they decide they don't care what other people think. That's it.

Speaker 1 including the guy in your mirror. You gotta go, I don't even care what you think.

Speaker 1 Buying and selling a home is a big deal, and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price.

Speaker 1 That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're hand-picked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs, and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day.

Speaker 1 To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit ramseysolutions.com/slash agent. Ramseysolutions.com/slash agent.

Speaker 1 Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host.
He is also one of the two people, including Rachel Cruz, doing our money and marriage getaway. We have two of them coming up.
They're on sale.

Speaker 1 You can spend three incredible days here in Nashville on our campus with your spouse, learning the tools to strengthen your connection, deepen your intimacy, and handle your money together. Dr.

Speaker 1 John Deloney, Rachel Cruz, this is pretty much stand-up comedy and a lot of deep, really good information. Tickets start at, we have one in November, one in February.

Speaker 1 One in February would be Valentine's Day weekend. Early bird pricing is still available for that one.
Tickets start at $7.49, a couple. There's just a handful left for November.

Speaker 1 So if you're going to miss out on November, just wait a minute. You'll miss out on it.
There you go. November 6th through the 8th, and just a handful there.

Speaker 1 But you can still get in the Valentine's Day pretty easy, 12 through 14 early next year. Tickets are the lowest price right now before they end at ramseysolutions.com/slash getaway,

Speaker 1 or click the link in the show notes and you get to be a part of that. John, that's a good event.
You and Rachel always have incredible results out of that.

Speaker 1 Uh, people's marriages are enhanced and sometimes saved.

Speaker 12 Saved, yeah, it's it's it's by far my favorite thing I'm a part of, and I love it, love it, love it.

Speaker 1 All right, Anne-Marie is in Reno, Nevada, Nevada. Hey, Anne Marie, what's up?

Speaker 24 Hey, thanks for saying Nevada correctly.

Speaker 1 I was trying.

Speaker 24 I am 59 years old and want to know how do you recommend handling finances in a committed relationship when, based on my divorce decree, I cannot remarry or I'll lose income, which is over $5,000 a month that I really couldn't afford to lose.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you get $60,000 a year alimony for how much longer?

Speaker 24 Lifetime.

Speaker 24 Wow.

Speaker 1 You're married a while.

Speaker 11 Yep.

Speaker 1 Okay. And you don't work outside of the home?

Speaker 24 I have a small part-time business. I, you know, have a little discretionary income, not anything super substantial.

Speaker 24 I have lots of investments and

Speaker 24 have a house. I do have a small

Speaker 23 mortgage.

Speaker 1 Okay. And the gentleman that you are dating makes what?

Speaker 24 We're pretty equally yoked as far as what we make and assets and that sort of thing.

Speaker 1 So he makes he has a job and he makes $60,000 a year?

Speaker 24 Yeah, he'll make $60,000 plus and has his own home

Speaker 24 and other

Speaker 24 assets.

Speaker 1 It's a very difficult question.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 24 because I hear you guys all the time about be married, be married, be married. It's like, I can't.
I'm leaving too much on the table.

Speaker 1 No, you can't. No, you're.

Speaker 1 It's just going to cost you.

Speaker 12 What is it worth to you?

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 12 Set your values over the money.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So my problem is, and John's problem,

Speaker 1 we're people of faith, we're Christians, and so

Speaker 1 Scripture tells us we can't be living with somebody we're not married to and be having sex with somebody we're not married to. That's what our book, our faith book, tells us.

Speaker 1 And so that's how we believe and how we live. And so if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't have any choices in that regard.
I would have to say, all right, we're not living together. And,

Speaker 1 or we're going to give up the $60,000.

Speaker 1 Let me ask you this. How long have you been divorced?

Speaker 24 Well, separated over three years.

Speaker 24 Originally, we had a separation agreement so I would not lose health insurance. And then we recently went ahead and divorced.

Speaker 1 When was the divorce final?

Speaker 24 Three months ago.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 this is fresh.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 what does your ex make?

Speaker 24 Twice what I get.

Speaker 24 We've split everything 50-50.

Speaker 1 Literally everything. So he makes $120,000 a year and you got $60,000 alimony?

Speaker 1 He offered that, didn't he?

Speaker 1 Well, it's $50,000. No.

Speaker 19 It's basically what I required.

Speaker 24 He agreed to it.

Speaker 1 Pretty well, it's unusually high.

Speaker 1 A judge usually would not have done that in most states, okay?

Speaker 24 Well,

Speaker 24 we had already separated our finances long since, like three years ago. So as far as investments, all of that, everything was totally separate.
We agreed everything 50-50.

Speaker 24 Of course, you know, I supported him all these years as far as moving around the world and supporting his career.

Speaker 1 This means you are already

Speaker 12 in a serious relationship before your divorce is final.

Speaker 1 What happens when he's 75 and doesn't make $120,000 anymore?

Speaker 24 No, this is all retirement income.

Speaker 1 He makes $120,000 retirement income.

Speaker 1 So what is in his retirement? Is that a pension?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 Between pensions and Social Security.

Speaker 1 So he doesn't have a big nest egg then?

Speaker 24 Well, we both do because, you know, we extend financially all of our married life.

Speaker 1 I'm going somewhere with this. I'm not just being nosy.
How big?

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 7 Well, I mean, we each have

Speaker 3 over

Speaker 24 half a million in other

Speaker 24 words.

Speaker 1 I wasn't trying to shame you. I'm just trying to figure out what the flip's going on.
All right. So the downside is that this is real fresh.

Speaker 1 If he had been paying this $5,000 long enough that he had a little bit of fatigue from doing it, which he doesn't have yet. He's been doing it for over three years.

Speaker 16 He's been doing it for over three years.

Speaker 1 So you could offer him a buyout,

Speaker 1 a lump sum buyout.

Speaker 12 I don't understand what you're asking us.

Speaker 8 I had not thought about that.

Speaker 24 Okay.

Speaker 1 That would set you free to get married, and it would set him free from you.

Speaker 12 Sounds like a win-win.

Speaker 1 Have you got a financial planner?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay. Sit down with them and ask them to help you do some calculations of what this might be worth in a lump sum.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 because

Speaker 1 $60,000 a year for 30 years is a lot of money.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I'm not sure on this lump sum buyout idea.

Speaker 3 That never crossed my mind.

Speaker 24 So, yeah, as far as

Speaker 24 like being in another relationship and considering this, I'm not saying that I'm with someone considering this. I'm asking about this because it's a topic of discussion.

Speaker 24 Like in the community where I live, so many people are in this situation. And

Speaker 1 well, I'm a person of faith that I don't tell people to shack up. There's not a circumstance I'm going to do that.
Okay.

Speaker 24 So a lot of people, what they do here is like, they'll have a commitment ceremony, you know, everything but the state license. So I was wondering if that is.

Speaker 1 Well, I don't know. I mean, you'd have to talk to your,

Speaker 1 if you're a person of faith, you talk to your pastor of do you consider that being remarried or not.

Speaker 1 But if you consider it being remarried, then you're unethical to continue to violate the divorce decree. You're just ducking it.

Speaker 1 I think you're talking about a lot of hypotheticals all of a sudden, and I suddenly don't care. Yeah.
So you just do. I mean, just have a, you know, no, I'm not going to tell you to shack up.

Speaker 1 There's not enough money in the world. I'm going to tell you to go do that.

Speaker 1 Sorry. I've got, you know, it's called standards.
It's called principles. It's called ethics.
And that's, you know,

Speaker 1 not saying I'm perfect, I'm not. There's a lot of stuff I've done in the past that I'm certainly glad Twitter wasn't around when I was in college.
And so,

Speaker 1 but the,

Speaker 1 but I'm not going to, you know, tell somebody going forward to enter into something that I don't believe that would be inconsistent for me to do that.

Speaker 1 If I wouldn't tell my daughter to do it, if I wouldn't tell my best friend to do it, I'm not going to tell you to do it. So you've got to decide that for yourself.
I can't make that decision for you.

Speaker 1 But it's not a financial decision. And if you want to try to skirt skirt the ethics on it, I think that's going to bite you later in other ways.

Speaker 1 Because if you're willing to lie about that to get money, then what else are you willing to lie about to get money? And I'm just not going to do that. But I have negotiated a lot of lumps on buyouts.

Speaker 1 They're really rather pleasant because everyone gets free

Speaker 1 from the past, the tethering.

Speaker 1 Our scripture of the day, 2 Corinthians 4, 7, but we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us.

Speaker 1 Earl Wilson says, today there are three kinds of people, the haves, the have-nots, and the have-not paid for what they have

Speaker 1 that's pretty good like that alice is with us in seattle hey alice what's up that's so good

Speaker 1 hello hi

Speaker 10 how are you guys doing today doing great

Speaker 1 how can we help alice question

Speaker 10 my question was how do i get over the fear of trying to start a career like just even thinking about getting started before you've actually even i'm having trouble understanding you, honey.

Speaker 1 Speak directly into your phone, please.

Speaker 1 You're having a fear about what?

Speaker 10 How do I get over the fear of starting a career before I've even started?

Speaker 1 How old are you?

Speaker 3 28.

Speaker 1 28. Okay.

Speaker 1 Are you nervous right now? Is that what I'm hearing in your voice?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.
Just excited and nervous. Okay.
All right. I was just making sure I was hearing what I thought I was hearing.
I didn't want to misjudge that. Okay.
What are you scared of?

Speaker 10 I was feeling disappointing, like my employers or future employers.

Speaker 1 What's your new career?

Speaker 10 So I went to school for literary studies.

Speaker 7 My plan was always to go into editing, copy editing,

Speaker 10 or just

Speaker 10 freelance editing, even.

Speaker 12 So I guess I would tell you there's 100%

Speaker 12 chance you will, over the course of your working career, you will do a thing that your supervisor doesn't like or that thought you could have done better.

Speaker 12 I've done that here.

Speaker 12 Could have given a little bit better talk, could have turned in a draft earlier, whatever. And so I think knowing that perfection can't be the goal

Speaker 12 might free you from trying to trying to keep treading water towards that goal.

Speaker 12 And then say, okay, then what must be true for me to go in and do the best possible work I can on a day in and day out basis.

Speaker 1 How athletic are you?

Speaker 10 I'm not that athletic, but I do like running.

Speaker 1 You do like what?

Speaker 1 Running. Running.
Okay, good. All right.
Have you distance running? Have you done any races?

Speaker 10 Races?

Speaker 7 I did cross-country.

Speaker 1 You know what I'm saying? Like, have you done some half-marathons or anything like that?

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 10 I was thinking about it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, okay. I've done about, it's been a while.
I think I quit running because of knees and stuff about 10 years ago, but prior to that, I did about 20 half marathons. And

Speaker 1 the Ethiopians won every one of them.

Speaker 1 I didn't win one.

Speaker 1 Little pudgy bald guys generally don't win marathons.

Speaker 1 And so what I'm bringing up is that the secret to happiness is lower expectations.

Speaker 1 I didn't enter those races thinking I was going to win, and so I'm going to enjoy the race.

Speaker 1 Don't enter this career thinking you're going to be perfect and that it might fail, but you can go do it another one. So what?

Speaker 1 You're not going to die from it.

Speaker 1 And just expect that it's not going to be perfect. Because that's kind of how it is going to be.
It's not going to be perfect.

Speaker 1 I mean, you're not, you know, because part of being an editor is you're pissing off the people that you're editing.

Speaker 1 I don't like being edited.

Speaker 12 I don't either.

Speaker 1 And I talk too much, Alice. So I desperately need an editor.

Speaker 12 Listen, my last book, we left 40,000 words on the floor.

Speaker 1 Well, and there's some grammar too, but yeah.

Speaker 12 Because I write too much. I'm too wordy.
I keep going and going.

Speaker 1 No author, like, no writer likes to be edited. It's not fun.
So you're getting ready to enter a career that's not fun for the people you're helping. You're a little bit like a surgeon.

Speaker 1 Nobody likes to be cut on, but they don't want to die.

Speaker 12 And they're so grateful when the surgery's over.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 A little bit like a surgeon.

Speaker 6 I feel like I'm just procrastinating.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 They make me procrastinating because I'm, you know, I'm just so paralyzed.

Speaker 1 You just have an unrealistic expectation that everything's going to be perfect, and it's not.

Speaker 12 There's a great quote by a woman out of the UK, and I just lost her name, but said, imposter syndrome is the fear that other people are judging you as harshly as you're judging yourself.

Speaker 1 Ooh, that's pretty good.

Speaker 12 And it sounds like before anyone even has a chance to judge you, you have already been your judge and jury and executioner. And I want to tell you, I think you're delightful.

Speaker 12 Thank you.

Speaker 12 And so I think that the voice that is, that is the harshest to you right now may have started with a mom or a dad or a coach or somebody who was ugly to you when you were a kid, but somehow over time that has morphed into your voice.

Speaker 12 And I just want to challenge you to start talking to my new friend, Alice, a little bit kinder

Speaker 1 or a lot kinder.

Speaker 12 Is that a fair request?

Speaker 3 Yes, I try.

Speaker 12 I know, but you talk to yourself worse than you would ever let somebody talk to one of your friends, right?

Speaker 3 Absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 12 And so sometimes it is as simple as getting a journal and writing a couple of things you're grateful for every morning and writing a note to yourself. And I'm not talking about some like

Speaker 12 super empowerment, like, oh, yeah, like not that. I'm talking about three things I'm grateful for and three things I'm going to do today because I'm worth that.
And just make it a regular practice.

Speaker 12 And all you're doing is changing your default setting inside your mind that starts with, you're worthless and you're probably going to fail to, this is going to be hard and I'm going to give it my best.

Speaker 12 And that's that's just going to be

Speaker 12 a thing you practice.

Speaker 1 So I read a book by my friend John Maxwell called Failing Forward.

Speaker 1 And one of the things he said in there that helped me on a lot of things is remember that when you're doing stuff, for instance, in business, we're always trying ideas and the bulk of our ideas end up sucking.

Speaker 1 And then occasionally you get one that's brilliant and they don't know about the other 90 things that you did wrong, but the brilliant one makes you look brilliant.

Speaker 1 And then you're on the cover of Success Magazine or whatever other bullcraps out there, right?

Speaker 1 And so, but he said in the book, Failing Forward, he said, just reframe it and say it's not failure. I'm experimenting.

Speaker 1 I found one more way that it doesn't work.

Speaker 1 I found another way that it doesn't work. I took up golf.
I found a lot of ways that doesn't work.

Speaker 1 The secret to happiness is low expectations. So it's, yeah, I want to be excellent.
I'm going to work hard. I'm going to experiment, though.

Speaker 1 And when you're a scientist and you're experimenting, you learn from failure. You expect failure.
And it is part of the experiment.

Speaker 1 I'm experimenting. I'm not failing.

Speaker 1 And the old,

Speaker 1 you know, the old adage of Edison, they asked him, you know, the reporter asked him one time, you know, how is it that you found 9,900 and something ways that the light bulb didn't work?

Speaker 1 How many you failed 9,900 times? He goes, no, I didn't fail. I found 9,000 ways that didn't work before I found one that did work.
And he invented the light bulb. So there you go.
And so it's

Speaker 12 a couple of practical things, Alice. When you get a new job, and I want you to make a commitment, I will apply for three jobs a day.
I will apply for two jobs a day.

Speaker 12 Because it's not a procrastination thing. It's I keep promises to myself.
I'm a person who keeps promises to myself. I will apply for two jobs a day.

Speaker 12 I will talk to somebody who's an editor in my local community and see if they have any ideas.

Speaker 12 But a thing I've always done with my supervisors when I join a company is I ask them, how do you want to hear stuff that might be hard for you to hear?

Speaker 12 How, when I turn something in, how do you want to get that? And it's a way just to kind of take some of the fear and some of those variables off the table.

Speaker 12 And then I'm going to do the best I can to meet those expectations. But going first and having those conversations, it just takes that fear away.

Speaker 12 Anxiety gets stronger the more you avoid the thing that your body's making you anxious about. You got to head head right through the middle of it.
And I wish there was a hack to that.

Speaker 12 There just isn't. You got to go right through the middle of it.

Speaker 1 Really good question, Alice. We're proud of you.
Go get them, kiddo. I think you got this.

Speaker 1 John, good show today. Well done.

Speaker 12 You're getting better, Dave. Hang in there.

Speaker 1 Hang in there. 30, 40 more years, I may get this figured out.

Speaker 12 Hang in there, my friends.

Speaker 1 Getting better. We'll be back with you before you know it.

Speaker 1 In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.