Don’t Wait for Someone Else To Fix Your Life

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love,

Speaker 1 and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman.
Ramsey personality is my co-host today, number one best-selling author, and we are here to help you.

Speaker 1 The phone number is easy. It's 888-825-5225.
The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Allison starts us off today in Washington, D.C.
Hey, Allison, how are you?

Speaker 2 Hi, thanks for taking my call. I appreciate all the education that you guys provide.

Speaker 2 My question today is about how to help my mother recover from a romance scam.

Speaker 2 She recently found out that there's about $1.2 million missing from hers and my grandmother's estate,

Speaker 2 and it's gone.

Speaker 2 And I know I'm not responsible for my mother's spending, but there's just very few resources out there to help someone as they recover from this kind of scam.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 So he has disappeared?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't even think she met him in person.

Speaker 2 So this got flagged from her bank after she transferred $300,000 and they flagged that. But that was only the biggest transfer.

Speaker 2 There were a lot of other smaller transactions totaling that I'm aware of about $1.2 million.

Speaker 1 But it might be. How old is your mom?

Speaker 2 She is 71.

Speaker 1 What a horrible thing. I'm so sorry.
Simultaneously makes me angry and sad.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 Okay, so I guess there's a couple of areas.

Speaker 1 Is your mom

Speaker 1 just lonely or is she diminished mentally?

Speaker 2 That's a great question.

Speaker 2 Definitely the first one.

Speaker 2 We thought that she might be diminishing mentally.

Speaker 2 I still hold that opinion. There are other family members that

Speaker 2 think she's just the way she's always been.

Speaker 1 Is there anything left?

Speaker 2 She told me there's about $5,000 of my grandmother's money left. My grandmother does have income, and that's going to cover her nursing home expenses.

Speaker 2 She's actually in hospice now, and I do feel like my grandmother is going to be okay.

Speaker 2 We've been working with the nursing home to make sure that they're going to continue her care, and you know, it's not going to be too much for you.

Speaker 1 Who's in hospice, your grandmother or your mother?

Speaker 2 My grandmother, my grandmother. Because

Speaker 2 my mother is a power of attorney for my grandmother, which is how this came out because

Speaker 2 I'm like the second in line for a power of attorney. I forget that term right now.

Speaker 1 So how is your mom's successor? How is your mom

Speaker 1 reacting to all of this? Is she

Speaker 1 prideful towards you all? I can do what I want to do. Or is she scared and humble? Take over this.
I'm not capable.

Speaker 2 No, she's really in denial at the moment.

Speaker 2 I've tried to send her budgets. I've tried, you know, stuff from y'all's website.

Speaker 1 Unless she is mentally diminished, you can't make her do anything.

Speaker 2 Correct.

Speaker 1 So all you can do is help her with her guilt once she discovers she's been scammed and that she's probably going to need to sit down and see a good therapist. a good counselor.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's almost like an addict behavior. Like I'm kind of waiting for her to hit bottom, and then I'm going to try to scoot her some resources, which is no, I'm not scooting her any resources.

Speaker 1 She's not responsible enough to handle them.

Speaker 1 You've just got to, you've got to decide how she can manage. You can help her manage the resources she gets her hands on

Speaker 1 and manage those. And if you give her some food money, instead just give her some food.

Speaker 1 Because we got to get a long way away from this competency issue.

Speaker 1 I can't tell why she's incompetent, whether it's just sheer loneliness and she's not a very smart person, or whether she's mentally diminished. I can't tell.

Speaker 1 And you can't either is what it amounts to. So, you know, you've just got to treat her like that and go, oh, man, it's so sad.
Such evil people out there.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And

Speaker 1 have you turned this over to the FBI yet? Well, you can't if she's in denial because

Speaker 1 she's got to file it.

Speaker 2 Right. I think they're aware because of the conversation I understand with the bank.
I do think she's on, I've researched all this. I think she's on the, there's like a list.

Speaker 2 So I think it has been reported to the FBI. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. And if there's anything you can do to try, sometimes, once in a blue moon, they actually recoup some of this stuff.
But wow, I'm so sorry. What a horrible thing.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, you're there for her emotionally as she deals with the guilt. of this level of screw-up, and you're there for her basic necessities, but we're not scooting her resources.

Speaker 1 She doesn't need any scooting.

Speaker 1 She needs care. You're going to have to treat her like she does not have competency because she obviously doesn't.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 the thing that I would add, Allison, is you mentioned you're going to have to let her hit rock bottom. And unfortunately, you're going to have to do this.
And this is where role reversal takes place.

Speaker 3 You become the parent, she's the child, and it's very, very difficult.

Speaker 3 But short of Dave, the children being able to pay for a private investigator, the only way, I hate to be so negative, but I've read into some of these things because we've taken this call several times over the last six months, as I recall.

Speaker 3 And I did some research very, very hard to recover this. These people, this may not even be a real dude.
This could be a woman in some foreign country.

Speaker 3 They are very creative and they cover their tracks. And you almost have to have a private investigator who's got some experience in this stuff, number one, and who you can afford, number two,

Speaker 3 who can hopefully entrap them and catch them. That's the only way.
Many times the law enforcement Dave just doesn't step up here because there's so many of these cases.

Speaker 1 So I hate to be so

Speaker 1 negative, but that's the reality. It's on the computer in the other end of something in Russia or whatever.

Speaker 3 You don't know where it's going.

Speaker 1 There's

Speaker 1 no telling.

Speaker 3 It's really tough.

Speaker 1 Man.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 we've taken this call a bunch over the last 30 years for sure in different forms. The internet has made it more

Speaker 1 prevalent, I guess, but

Speaker 1 it's not that unusual.

Speaker 1 But so I guess, yeah, be there for her emotionally, be there for her necessities.

Speaker 1 We're not ever going to put her in charge in the near future of any kind of assets because she's not responsible or capable or competent or whatever the phrase is we want to use.

Speaker 1 Those aren't insulting words. They're just observations of where she is, obviously.
But yeah, you don't.

Speaker 1 Wow. So.

Speaker 1 And there's a part, if I'm Allison, and I think it's normal for the family members, there's part of them that are aggravated with mom. Oh, sure.

Speaker 1 For not having her crap together any better than this, you know? But so those of you out there, this happens almost exclusively to

Speaker 1 elderly that are

Speaker 1 by, and let me back it off, okay? Not even elderly, 50 years old and beyond, if you want to call that elderly. If you're 20, that's ancient, okay? But if you're 60, it's not ancient, okay?

Speaker 1 So, but anyway, 50 years old and beyond, lonely

Speaker 1 and disconnected and not involved

Speaker 1 where like if Allison is the

Speaker 1 successor trustee in this situation, then she leans in and is very involved in mom to where she knows this is happening. Correct.

Speaker 1 Where, you know, if they're disconnected even the least amount from the rest of the family and from friends, where someone, no one is raising a flag going, you're doing what?

Speaker 1 You know, but you got to have a conversation. You got to be in a conversation to be able to say that.
And that's not on Allison. It's not her fault, but this is who it happens to, the lonely.

Speaker 1 It's who it happens to. Wow.
How sad.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

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Speaker 1 Ken Coleman, best-selling author, is my co-host today. I am Dave Ramsey, your host.
This is The Ramsey Show. We talk to you about your life and your money.

Speaker 1 Some of you are aware that we coach and train and do events for small businesses. We've got around 10,000 of them right now that we're coaching all across America.
And I love small business people.

Speaker 1 54% of the gross domestic product, the economy,

Speaker 1 is created by businesses with fewer than 500 team members. Small business is literally mathematically the backbone of the U.S.
economy.

Speaker 1 And so people starting up new stuff and excited entrepreneurs are my people. I started this business of Ramsey on a card table in my living room 30-something years ago.
And today,

Speaker 1 you know, we've got over a thousand folks working here. We've got, you know, several hundred million dollars in revenue and helping people is our goal and our product.
It's what we do.

Speaker 1 And I had a best-selling book teaching people about how we run this business several years ago, about a decade ago, called Entree Leadership. It still still sells very, very well.

Speaker 1 Thank you guys for reading that. The combination of entrepreneurism and leadership.
So today we are launching pre-sale on a book of mine. I don't do many books anymore.

Speaker 1 It's been, I think, four or five years since I've done one. And so this one is the system that we have used to grow Ramsey and that we teach the small businesses to grow around America.

Speaker 1 It's called Build a Business You Love, Mastering the Five Stages of Business. We have identified that there are six things that drive businesses forward.

Speaker 1 And as they go forward, they go through five stages.

Speaker 1 Two different elements here.

Speaker 1 But much like you walk the baby steps in personal finance, this entree leadership system with the six drivers and the five stages that you go through in business, and it takes decades in most cases to go through all of it, as you grow a business from an idea all the way into a multi-million dollar thing.

Speaker 1 This is the baby steps for small business in a sense. And this is what this book does.

Speaker 1 It's the total money makeover for small business in a sense because it's going to show you exactly what those five stages are, exactly what the six drivers are, and exactly how to do them.

Speaker 1 And you're going to like your business better. One of the dichotomies is most of us start a business because we think it's going to be more fun than working for someone else.

Speaker 1 And then you find out you've got the meanest dadgum boss on the planet, which is you looking at yourself in the mirror. You will work yourself to death death and you will crack the whip and do stuff.

Speaker 1 It's crazy. So you can end up hating the business that you started if you're not careful.
It happens all the time.

Speaker 1 But you've got to get a thing where you're building something that you love and you're enjoying it like you did the first day you had the idea. And so build a business you love.

Speaker 1 It's on pre-sale starting today. The book actually ships on April 15th, oddly enough.
tax day for small business people, right? And everybody else.

Speaker 1 And if you pre-order now for $29.99, you're going going to get over 350 worth of bonus items instant access to the entree leadership hiring playbook which is one of the lessons we teach here and hiring and firing is the biggest challenge small businesses face it's a complete pain in the butt and it's wonderful both because you get to meet some of the best people on the planet and some of the craziest people on the planet Early access to the e-book is part of the package and you get the enhanced audiobook.

Speaker 1 I read the audio book, but we've also put a bunch of other stuff in there. It's almost like a production of a podcast.

Speaker 1 And so the audiobook's super entertaining and super cool rather than just me reading the book. It's not that.
Okay. So pre-order today at ramseysolutions.com slash store.

Speaker 1 If you're watching on YouTube or podcasts, you can click the link in the description. I've been doing this for 30 years.
It was 30 plus years ago. I started on a card table in my living room.

Speaker 1 And I don't

Speaker 1 write about stuff that I have not done. Nothing we do at Ramsey is theory.
It's all we're practitioners. We give you actionable things you can do.

Speaker 1 And Ken, you've spoken at Entree Leadership Summit, which we're doing in May in Denver.

Speaker 1 It's a huge event at Entree Leadership Master Series, which is a smaller event for the owners of small businesses.

Speaker 1 And these small businesses really, if you're thinking about or you are operating or running or even working for a small business, this stuff's important.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I was going to say very quickly that the timing for this is right because our audience is exploding in the podcast and YouTube space. And more and more we're seeing Gen Z call this show.

Speaker 3 So if you're in Gen Z or you're a millennial and you just had an idea at some point in your life, I think this is a must-buy.

Speaker 3 You may not be ready to launch the business, but to understand what it takes to go from a card table, as Dave has said now just a moment ago, to a massive company with over a thousand employees, hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue.

Speaker 3 It is a proven system and I love the stages. They're very easy to understand, but will help you see what it's going to take.

Speaker 3 And Dave, we're seeing data now that Gen Z is the most entrepreneurial generation that we've ever had in history because they're seeing that

Speaker 3 their entryway into working for themselves is easier than ever. They see it obviously through video, through digital tools, and thus it's created this great desire to work for yourself.

Speaker 3 So this book, I think, is a must gift.

Speaker 3 If you've got that young entrepreneur in your life, parents or grandparents, or if you are somebody who thinks you might want to work for yourself one day, I think this is a must read so that you can see what what the climb is going to have to look like.

Speaker 3 That's why I like this book. I think the timing of this, this thing's going to go absolutely bananas because of the day and age in which we live.

Speaker 1 Well, and if you're 52 and you have eight employees and you own a heat and air company, hello, I know exactly what you're facing. That's right.
Other than the heat and air part.

Speaker 1 But I mean, the rest of it, I know it inside and out. And,

Speaker 1 you know, we've got you as a customer all over America, and I can show you exactly what the next steps are. It's not too late.
This is not just what Ramsey has gone through.

Speaker 1 This is what we've coached these 10,000 businesses through. Build a business you love on pre-sales starting today.
And, Ken, I think that's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 1 If you've got an idea, what you don't know yet, if you've not started a business, is the three rules of business. And rule number one is it's going to take twice as long as you thought.

Speaker 1 Rule number two, it's going to cost twice as much as you thought. And rule number three is you're not the exception.

Speaker 1 This is going to be hard. Yes.
It's going to be hard. It's going to be harder than you thought.
And you're going to make some mistakes, and your best ideas are going to turn out looking stupid.

Speaker 1 And some of your dumb ideas are going to turn out looking like you're a genius.

Speaker 1 And you just, it's amazing to me how much of my personal stupidity this company has survived over 30 years. The number of dumb things that we have tried that did not work.

Speaker 1 And the reason they survived was the financial underpinning. We don't borrow money.
And following these exact steps and these six drivers and staying true to our lane. This is what we do.

Speaker 1 This is what we do. This is what we do.
And we can show you how to do all that. But I'm not going to tell you it's going to be easy.
It's not easy.

Speaker 1 It's easier to start a business today than at any time in human history. Yes.
Anytime in human history, because your marketing is instantaneous.

Speaker 1 You've got this wonderful thing, like the old country boy said, you got that internet. I mean, you know, you got this wonderful thing out there that you can do anything with.

Speaker 1 And there's a ton of, you know, standalone plug-and-play products to help you, you know, run your business, help you do all kinds of things to get something off the ground. So

Speaker 1 the first time I ever saw that really was I was just amazed that the first time I met the guy that he made a million dollars in one year, this was God, 20 years ago I met him, made a million dollars in one year selling used golf clubs on eBay.

Speaker 1 Wow. He was buying, you go to garage sales and buy golf clubs for a dollar.
Clean them up. Buy

Speaker 1 the whole bag because people just want them out of the way. That's right.

Speaker 1 They collect.

Speaker 1 They go to the garage. Generally the rabbit wine garage, use golf clubs.
It goes out of the corner. Yeah, and nobody wants the old technology, right? No.
Yeah, everybody does when it's cheap enough.

Speaker 1 So he would take it, clean it, put it on eBay, and all of a sudden he had a business. Wow.
You know, and,

Speaker 1 you know, so you can decide to do something like that.

Speaker 1 But then, like a friend of mine I was talking to the other day that's in his 30s who suddenly has millions of dollars of revenue, he's now overwhelmed. He's like, I now have a business.

Speaker 1 I thought I was just a dot, dot, dot. And he goes, now I got people working for me, and I got all this this other stuff.
And he's kind of an accidental entrepreneur, if you will.

Speaker 1 And so, yeah, there's processes, though, that can get this back for you that can help you get your life back together. Build a business you love on pre-sale today.

Speaker 1 As I said, I don't do many books anymore. Most of our book production and writing is done by the Ramsey personalities around here, and they do a great job.

Speaker 1 And we've got number ones with bestsellers with multiple number one bestsellers with all of them. And

Speaker 1 there's no need for the old man to get in the way of that. But this is my material, so I had to put it into a book.
We couldn't let it couldn't let it just wander off into the ethos. So

Speaker 1 this way you can get your hands on it for only $29.99 and you can get a system to run and grow your business. And I got to tell you, if you're running a small business, you deserve to win.

Speaker 1 You are the right kind of people. You're the kind of people people should work for versus corporate America who will piss on you.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, you know, you need to go to work for good people, family-run businesses. They're the best on the planet.
This is the Ramsey Show.

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Speaker 1 Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, best-selling author, is my co-host today.

Speaker 1 Seattle is on the line. Jeremy is calling.
Hi, Jeremy. How are you?

Speaker 2 Good. How are you?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2 Good. Hey, I just started your book this last month with my wife.
We are on baby step number two.

Speaker 2 And to long story short, we've basically borrowed some money from a family member, my father-in-law and mother-in-law, about year and a half ago.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 we put a manufactured home there, used the money for that. We're paying them back pretty quickly, it feels like.

Speaker 2 Made a dumb decision again before I started your book and went out and bought a toy. And it's kind of putting some stress on our relationship with them.

Speaker 2 They're thinking we shouldn't be spending money when we owe them money. And I just wanted your advice on that.

Speaker 1 What'd you buy?

Speaker 2 A four-wheeler.

Speaker 1 Okay. What'd you spend on the four-wheeler?

Speaker 2 $6,000. And we financed it, but it's almost paid off now.

Speaker 1 Okay. And what do you owe them?

Speaker 2 About $80,000.

Speaker 1 Oof.

Speaker 1 So they loaned you the money to

Speaker 1 buy a

Speaker 1 trailer.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yes, sir.

Speaker 1 On their property?

Speaker 2 Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 So you have an $80,000 trailer and you don't own the dirt?

Speaker 2 Correct.

Speaker 1 Oh, God.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 Well, what are the terms? I mean, did you have a payment system with them, a certain amount you're supposed to pay them every month?

Speaker 2 Yes, yeah, and we've been paying that on time every time, obviously.

Speaker 1 You were not, well, well, not obviously. I mean,

Speaker 1 you've never been late, and yet they expected that you would prepay them rather than do anything else. Why did they expect that?

Speaker 2 You know, that's a good question.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 And, you know, our thing is we have a pretty good relationship with them, and things just kind of got awkward. So do I sell the toy, take a loss, and move on?

Speaker 2 Do I

Speaker 2 you're you're the expert, I I guess. That's my question.

Speaker 3 I'm curious to know if there was any pressure that you felt at any time or your wife felt at any time to A, borrow 80 grand from them to then get a pre-mod trailer and put it on their property.

Speaker 3 Was there pressure there or was it just they threw it out and you guys love the idea?

Speaker 2 So basically we sold our house and had some money. set aside to do this project and it was just an idea that got thrown out there and nobody thought it would really work.

Speaker 2 We were able to make it work, and we were pretty excited about that. There wasn't too much pressure there.

Speaker 2 It will

Speaker 2 most likely be, it will be our property at some point.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 2 there wasn't too much for us on worrying with that.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's press.

Speaker 1 There's two layers to this situation. The first layer is the simple four-wheeler question.
Okay? Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 On the simple four-wheeler question, I think you and your wife need to go over, ask them if you can come over and talk and have a cup of coffee and bring a pie.

Speaker 1 And you just sit down and say,

Speaker 1 we thought that we had a monthly payment arrangement with you, and as long as we were doing that, we thought we were doing the right thing.

Speaker 1 Somehow there must have been more to the agreement than we understood.

Speaker 1 Because if we go on vacation, you're going to be mad. If we buy a four-wheeler, you're going to be mad.
But we didn't know that was part of the deal.

Speaker 1 And so we need to get on the same page about what our deal is. Because I thought our deal was I pay you monthly payments and you're happy.

Speaker 1 But now it's I pay you monthly payments and I have to check with you before I buy anything.

Speaker 1 And that's not a deal I'm okay with.

Speaker 1 Now, agreed, you shouldn't have bought a stupid four-wheeler in this situation, okay?

Speaker 1 That's aside. And you can say that.
I've made a mistake. I shouldn't have bought the toy.
But I'm trying to figure out what our boundaries are here so that I don't upset you again into the future.

Speaker 1 And basically call them out because they're out of line.

Speaker 1 You did a stupid thing, but they don't have a right to be upset about it because you kept your part of the deal.

Speaker 1 Yep.

Speaker 1 I'm telling you, sell the four-wheeler and get yourself out of debt with that money. Yeah, definitely do that.
But not paying towards them. Okay, that's layer number one.
That's the easiest layer.

Speaker 1 Do you want me to get harder, Jeremy, or do you want me to leave you alone?

Speaker 2 Nope. I want to hear it.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 You guys have made a colossal mess. You violated about six things here, and you're going to get,

Speaker 1 it's not going to turn out well, I'm afraid. Colossal rule number one is you never build a property, you never put $80,000 worth of collateral on someone else's dirt.
I don't care whose dirt it is.

Speaker 1 Period. Because you do not have control of the situation.

Speaker 1 If they are in a car wreck in the middle of the night, fall asleep at the wheel, and these sweet little people hit somebody head-on and they get sued for $200 million, the dirt under your trailer is gone in that lawsuit.

Speaker 1 And they have no control over that, and you have no control over that. So you have set yourself up, and I've seen this a thousand times in 30 years of doing what I do.

Speaker 1 Not owning the dirt under your trailer is a massive mistake, number one. Borrowing $80,000 from your in-laws for anything, for any reason, is a massive mistake.

Speaker 1 Number two, the borrower is slave to the lender. And as you have figured out, masters change the rules sometimes.

Speaker 1 You're the slave.

Speaker 1 Rule number, problem number three. You spent $80,000 on something that's going down in value, not up in value.
Trailers go down in value. They don't go up in value.

Speaker 1 So in 15 years, what's this $80,000 trailer worth? Nothing.

Speaker 1 You're burning $80,000 on your kitchen table every night, a little bit at a time. So

Speaker 1 you got a massive entanglement of mess here, and I don't know exactly how to get you out of that one as easy as I did the other one. This is not a cup of coffee and a pie.

Speaker 1 But if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to start trying to unravel this thing. If I can figure out a way to honorably do that, I'm guessing the trailer won't bring 80 grand now, right?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 Okay. What would it bring now?

Speaker 2 It might get close. You know, there's not a lot of them around to get a good idea.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 If you can get out of it, I would sell it and start fresh renting somewhere and give them their money back and keep you from owning an asset that's going down in value, sitting on dirt that you don't own.

Speaker 1 Man, this is just ⁇ you're playing Russian roulette, and there's three bullets in the gun. Not one.

Speaker 3 Yeah, Dave, yeah, he's been sufficiently burned. I'll offer some salve

Speaker 1 and the salve. I got promotion.
You're right.

Speaker 3 No, you couldn't be be more right. I just can't add anything to it other than to say this.

Speaker 3 Walk away from this to realize it could have been way worse and this thing can get nastier if you don't fix it now. And I could not say that enough.

Speaker 3 You can dig out of this, but I would start digging quickly and make all these changes. And you'll look back on this and go,

Speaker 3 I'm glad I did it.

Speaker 1 It's going to get worse. The relationship's going to get worse.
The finances are going to get worse. Everything's going to get worse.
There's nothing in this story that turns out good.

Speaker 1 and, and the problem is to stop and say that out loud is like walking up in the middle of the town square and saying the emperor has no clothes. Everybody's going to look at you and go, but wait.

Speaker 1 Your wife's going to look at you, their precious little daughter, and go, my daddy wouldn't. Oh, yes, he did.
He already bitched about the four-wheeler. Of course, he's going to do it.
It's coming.

Speaker 1 You know what your daddy's going to do. Right.
Okay. I already know what your daddy's going to do.
I read his mail.

Speaker 3 Well, Dave, this makes me think of the classic line in the wedding vows, leave and cleave. There is a psychological reason for doing that.
There's wisdom in that phrase.

Speaker 1 Not living on their land. Well, mom and dad have got some money and they've got some land and they were trying to do something nice and they did a good thing in a dumb way.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's a great way of putting it.

Speaker 1 How could you do this differently? All right. I'll tell you how you could do it differently.

Speaker 1 Carve up your property, you put a property line on it, and you give a parcel of it to your daughter.

Speaker 1 And if you want her to have an $80,000 property, have her build something on there that will go up in value and give her $80,000 of your money.

Speaker 1 Don't loan it to her and make her your slave and change the quality of your relationship. Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you eat with your master.

Speaker 1 It changes the relationship and you're not the exception. No one, none of you out there.

Speaker 1 So mom and dads quit doing a nice thing, a good thing, a bad way, and cause them more problems than you were blessings. Yeah, that's right.
That's.

Speaker 1 Poor Jeremy. I'm sorry, Jeremy, but you called and you asked.
This is the Ramsey Show.

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Speaker 1 Open phones, this hour Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host. Our question of the day is brought to you by YReFi.

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Speaker 3 Today's question comes from Brianna in Washington, D.C. Can you explain how President Trump's new executive order on tariffs will affect me at a personal level?

Speaker 3 Well, this is my answer will be based on if the tariffs stand. Right now, there's been an extension.

Speaker 3 If you're paying attention to the news, President Trump mentioned the tariffs would take place, Canada and Mexico specifically, and then they responded, their governments responded, and so now there is a, we'll call it a waiting period to see how this plays out.

Speaker 3 But if the tariffs were to go into place, and I'm just going to be honest, so if this offends you folks, honesty is what I'm going to go with. Tariffs will affect us.

Speaker 3 There's no question, even President Trump has said, and I quote, that prices will go up. There's no question that that's how tariffs work.

Speaker 3 Even though a tariff is placed on a foreign country, that is on the goods and stuff that they would, of course, export to American companies. And so American companies will have to pay the tariff.

Speaker 3 The idea is to drive American goods, which I'm all for, but there's no question that tariffs are passed on from American companies to American consumers. So it's a long-held economic strategy.

Speaker 3 Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. We'll see how this plays out.
It's too soon to tell because, again, we've got a bit of a moratorium.

Speaker 3 But if they go into place on certain goods and services, you will see an increase in cost.

Speaker 3 The question is, how much of an increase in cost? And that comes down to the American company that is, again,

Speaker 3 getting goods from Mexico or Canada. So that's how that works.
And I've never seen companies not pass on increased costs to customers across the board.

Speaker 1 I've got a friend building a house in Cabo in Mexico. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And he just had

Speaker 1 some of his appliances and his plumbing fixtures shipped in from the States. Mexico adds a 33%

Speaker 1 33% on top of that. So $1,000 item becomes a $1,500 item.
That's right.

Speaker 1 That's today. That's happening.
Yeah, that's right. And has been that way for years.

Speaker 3 Which is why the president came out.

Speaker 1 Which has been that way for years. That's right.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 that does not happen when Mexico sends stuff here. Correct.
So So we need to keep in mind that's what's really going on.

Speaker 1 If you are an American company wanting to sell things to customers in Mexico, you face a 33%

Speaker 1 upcharge today.

Speaker 1 That's been in place for years.

Speaker 1 Did it crash either economy? No. No.
Did it slow down the number of people that do business in Mexico? Yes.

Speaker 1 Hello. Yeah.
I mean, and that, that's, that's the net, net, net effect of these things is, but this idea that somehow Americans are going to come up on the short end of this stick, not really.

Speaker 1 Canadians are really worried about this. They're very worried about it.
I've talked to three Canadian business people in the last week that were very, very afraid

Speaker 1 of what it's going to do to them. And it's much more damaging to them.
No question. So but I do want to answer a little bit about that.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Honestly, too, you will pay more.

Speaker 1 If you buy something from Canada or you buy something from Mexico and that goes into effect, you will pay more. That's right.
No question about it. 100%.

Speaker 1 The companies do not eat taxes. We're going to raise corporate taxes.
No, you're not.

Speaker 1 You raise corporate taxes. Corporate taxes are built into the price of the item you buy from Walmart.

Speaker 1 Walmart does not pay taxes. You pay taxes when you buy potato chips at Walmart.
You pay all their taxes for them. It's built into the price.
They don't work for nothing.

Speaker 1 You can't raise corporate taxes. It's impossible.
All you do is raise prices to the consumer. Same exact thing.
That's right. Exactly.

Speaker 3 Here's the flip side to this. Because I was on Fox Business talking about it.
They asked me what I thought about this.

Speaker 3 If the president also extends his tax cuts, which will expire later this year, that would help the American consumer in lowering your cost. Of course, you keep more of your paycheck.

Speaker 3 The second thing that the president, I think, will do, I think we're going to see this soon, is he's going to cut regulation on American businesses.

Speaker 3 And if he were to lower taxes on American businesses, that also offsets tariffs.

Speaker 3 So it is, for people who are just hearing the media talk tariffs, you got to look at the whole picture and go, okay, if he does what you're talking about, and he's now going after two countries that we do a lot of trading with, he's going, it's got to be fair.

Speaker 3 You've heard him use these words. His words, not mine.
But if he also lowers taxes on American businesses and lowers regulation,

Speaker 3 then you might see very little, and that would be my hope. And I fully expect him to do that.
I see nothing out of his administration that wouldn't do that.

Speaker 3 In that case, you're not going to feel tariffs in and of themselves by themselves. I think that's what's going to happen.

Speaker 1 The economics is not as simple as one variable. It's not.
There's more to it than that. Here's the other thing.
And this is what I told my Canadian buddy.

Speaker 1 He was in meltdown mode. I'll bet.
I said,

Speaker 1 let me just, I'll give you an opinion, and it's worth exactly what you pay for it. There's not going to be any tariffs in Canada.
That's my opinion.

Speaker 3 It already appears as though none of this is going to be.

Speaker 1 And there's not going to be with Mexico. That's my opinion.
But it may require that Mexico and Canada start treating American goods the way we treat their goods.

Speaker 1 Fair.

Speaker 3 That's right. Nobody wants to get in a trade war.

Speaker 1 Nobody wants to pay 33% upgrade. Right.

Speaker 1 And we do today.

Speaker 1 And he wants the borders closed.

Speaker 1 But I think that this is a negotiating ploy on those two countries.

Speaker 1 Now, I will tell you some of the other countries where there's a massive trade deficit and there is a tariff offset, like I'm talking about, where let's say Vietnam, okay, where we pay,

Speaker 1 if you want to bring American goods into Vietnam, you pay big money to do that. And if you want to ship American, ship Vietnamese goods to America, you pay nothing.

Speaker 1 And the trade deficit is huge, meaning that we import a lot more from Vietnam than we export to them.

Speaker 1 That's the trade deficit. So they are.
They are taking jobs from America in that sense.

Speaker 1 And then they're charging, overcharging for American goods coming in.

Speaker 1 So where he doesn't want a border closed with them, where he doesn't want something else in this negotiation, that one's probably in trouble. You're probably going to see one there.
That's right.

Speaker 1 And then you're going to see, if you're buying goods from Vietnam, you're probably going to see a huge increase in what that cost of that is,

Speaker 1 like I'm outlining with Mexico as an example. And so, but I don't think Mexico or...
Personally, I don't think Mexico

Speaker 1 or Canada or either one will ever see it. I think he was trying to get some other stuff, and he threw a grenade in the middle of it.
He's a New York street fighter, and that's how he negotiates.

Speaker 1 That's exactly right. We'll see.
He hasn't changed all.

Speaker 3 Now, let's bring this back to everybody else.

Speaker 3 Just Brianna, who asked this question. It's a good question, by the way.

Speaker 3 I can tell you this, if you're debt-free and you're working your way through the baby steps, even though it's never fun to have your cost of your household goods or the things that you do go up, you can weather that storm.

Speaker 3 And people who stand on that debt-free stage over there, they're never stressed about inflation.

Speaker 1 And so it's really important. Well, and they're not picking up goods in their house going, made in Mexico, wait a minute, or made in Canada.
Wait a minute. That's right.

Speaker 1 There's probably not that much in your house that says that,

Speaker 1 truthfully.

Speaker 1 So, you know,

Speaker 3 I think it's going to shake out. I think you're going to see the tax cuts extended, Dave.
I think you're going to see deregulation.

Speaker 1 I don't think that's a good thing. I don't think America wants a trade war with

Speaker 1 either one of their border neighbors. I just really don't.
No. We'll see.
We'll see.

Speaker 1 Let me tell you, one other principle that we can, and we can leave this alone, get all the prognostication and bullcrap out of the air.

Speaker 1 Don't act on worries that haven't happened.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 When it happens, you can think about it.

Speaker 1 Until it happens, it hadn't happened. Well,

Speaker 1 we might have this or we might have that. It might snow.
It might not. We might have a...
outbreak of the bird flu. We might not.
We might have a, and we might not. And

Speaker 1 if you spend your life doing that, you're going to eat up all your calories and have no fun.

Speaker 1 So I'm serious. It's just don't, don't do that.

Speaker 1 On anything, tariffs, politics,

Speaker 1 Trump being elected, Trump not being elected, whatever, whatever it is you want to, you know, until it actually occurs and you actually see it in your hand messing with your wallet.

Speaker 1 Then I would start making some adjustments to offset and say, well, I'm going to have to change the way I do that.

Speaker 1 But until then, it's all a bunch of malarkey on the news. And believe me, most of what's on the news is malarkey.
This is the Ramsey Show.

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Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and host of the brand new, super popular podcast that we just launched called Front Row Seat.

Speaker 1 Be sure you check it out on Ramsey Networks. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Joe is with us in Salt Lake City. Hi, Joe.
How are you?

Speaker 2 Doing good. How are you doing?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2 Hi, so I'm calling. I'm curious.
So me and my girlfriend are going to be moving in together, and I'm curious whether I should be covering the bills or not.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 2 Are you ready for some context?

Speaker 3 I was waiting on Dave on that one. That's all I got up front.

Speaker 1 What's the context? Sure.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I'm from Salt Lake City. She's from Salt Lake City.
I work out of state. So I'm moving out of state to Cleveland, Ohio.
She's going to be moving with me.

Speaker 2 And her work is very clientele-based. So she won't be having, she will have practically zero business out there.
And I make more than enough to provide for both of us. And so

Speaker 2 it's not necessary that I need to.

Speaker 1 Sorry, say that again? How old is she?

Speaker 2 We are both 19 years old.

Speaker 1 What does she do for a living?

Speaker 2 Cosmetology.

Speaker 6 Does hair. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. So she's going to give up her life and follow you, and you're not even going to marry her.

Speaker 2 I will. I will.
Surely.

Speaker 1 Well, go ahead.

Speaker 1 Go ahead, then.

Speaker 1 If you were her dad, you'd tell her not to do this.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, I mean.
Or maybe not.

Speaker 2 No, I think I'm a good guy.

Speaker 1 I didn't think you're a bad guy. I just said marry the girl.
Put a ring on it, buddy. That's all I said.

Speaker 1 Because I'm telling you, she's in danger. Not physically, not emotionally.

Speaker 1 You're not a bad guy, but she is very vulnerable economically because she's become dependent on a 19-year-old that she's not married to in another city where she has no connections and no family and she has no income.

Speaker 1 She's vulnerable, and that's not wise for her. And that vulnerability, that anxiety that goes with that is going to affect your relationship.
And you guys don't see that.

Speaker 1 You're just young and in love, and you think this is all going to work as long as the sex is good.

Speaker 1 Uh-oh. Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 1 why a year from now?

Speaker 3 Hold on, let's play out your thing. You told Day, well, we're going to a year from now.
So what's going to change between now and then for you to marry her instead of now, a year from now?

Speaker 3 What changes?

Speaker 2 So I work, like, I just work in the summer months, and

Speaker 2 so I'm like waiting to get back from working for the year and being able to actually have open time

Speaker 2 where then I could devote like majority of my energy, a majority of

Speaker 2 what I I need to emotionally to a relationship.

Speaker 1 This is a disaster. Hey, listen, if you're going to do that,

Speaker 1 you know, that's when you get married.

Speaker 1 And moving in together is

Speaker 1 she's you would have to pay the bills because she has no money is the answer to your original question, isn't it? Well,

Speaker 2 yeah, I mean, and she could get like a basic job, but yeah, but I mean, she can't, she can't exist.

Speaker 1 She can't subsist if she follows this along without you. So she's trapped.
That's what I'm telling you.

Speaker 1 And economically, and your brain knows the math, and your body stores the stress from your brain. And she can't keep that from happening.
It's going to affect your relationship negatively.

Speaker 1 So if you're going to go do this, just, you know, call the preacher and say, hey, we want to get married before we move over there.

Speaker 1 It will change the environment because then she knows you're legally bound to care for her.

Speaker 1 She's legally bound to care for you because you legally don't own anything separately anymore because you're now what we call married.

Speaker 1 And so that's going to be healthier for her emotionally, for your relationship long term, and it will change everything.

Speaker 1 And if you're not able to commit to that emotionally, you should not put her in this state of vulnerability because you're a good guy and you wouldn't do that.

Speaker 3 I'm going to go. I'm going to go.
I'm going to take another tack here real quick.

Speaker 3 I think that you need to tell her it's a really bad idea and you've seen the light and you guys need to figure out if you really do want to spend the rest of your life together, not play house.

Speaker 3 I would actually go and she stays back home. You guys figure out if you can do a long distance relationship before you do this nonsense.
If I was this girl's father, I'd be in your grill, man.

Speaker 3 That may not be popular, but I really don't care.

Speaker 1 I think this is crazy.

Speaker 3 I'd want you to prove to me as this girl's father that you're willing to be mature and put you two in front of your desire. I think that's what I would do.
And see if she's willing to do it.

Speaker 3 See if you're willing to do the long-distance relationship. And while I'm ranting, when it's time, if you guys prove that you can do this, she can come visit for a little bit and get a job.

Speaker 3 I'm pretty sure they have plenty of hairdressers that need somebody to cut hair in Cleveland.

Speaker 3 So this is not this all-in scenario, Dave. I don't like it.
I think it's foolish.

Speaker 1 Joe, I mean, you called and asked, and we're being pretty brutal with you and messing up your plan, but

Speaker 1 that's, you know, what we're thinking like here is like her old ugly uncle, because I pretty much qualify for all of that.

Speaker 1 I think I'm handsome, but

Speaker 1 I said we, me, but yeah.

Speaker 1 But I'm saying, you know, what would you do? And you said, I wouldn't. When I asked you, would you want your daughter to do this? You said, no, I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 So you need to think about how you answered that, because you answered that honestly.

Speaker 1 And I do think you're a good guy. I'm not questioning your integrity or your intent or anything.
And I'm not saying you're a substandard person in any way.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 there's implications to what you're doing that

Speaker 1 you don't know about or haven't thought through.

Speaker 1 And then I'll just stop a second and say that for the rest of you out there, because today in America, more couples live together not married than married, statistically.

Speaker 1 Now, for those of you that grew up with Leave It to Beaver in an alternative universe, that's shocking to you. More people live together not married than married.

Speaker 1 The The downside is, is that the data is now in.

Speaker 1 We see the data and we track the data. It's our world.
And the data says that married couples far exceed

Speaker 1 unmarried couples living together in their financial goals and wealth building. Far exceed.
The researchers call it the marriage advantage.

Speaker 1 And it's probably deeper than just combining of the two incomes and that kind of a thing.

Speaker 1 Our theory is, and we've not been able to research this and prove it, but you can just listen with me and think about it, guys.

Speaker 1 But our theory is simply this, that when both of you are permanently promised to each other's future

Speaker 1 with a contract called marriage, it causes a differentiation in your behaviors.

Speaker 1 Versus I've got to always have an out. I've got to always have an exit.
I've got to always have a, what happens if he moves out? What happens if he leaves me with these two kids?

Speaker 1 What happens if, you know, all those kinds of things. And that can happen in marriage.
It's called divorce, but you get this thing called child support, alimony, and half the assets.

Speaker 1 You don't get that

Speaker 1 when you're cohabitating. Even with a cohabitation contract, they don't stand up in most states to the level that marriage does.
So we can discuss how it gets there, but the data is undeniable.

Speaker 1 Married couples far exceed in wealth building to unmarried couples living together. Far exceed.

Speaker 1 And you can just look at it through the wealth building lens or you can look at it through other lenses, but that's the one that I've got data on. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Speaker 1 Ken Coleman Ramsey Personality is my co-host today.

Speaker 1 He is the host of the brand new show called Front Row Seat. Ken, Front Row Seat came out of the gate really fast, no pun intended.

Speaker 1 It's

Speaker 1 an interview program where you are the master interviewer, which you are long form. One of the first ones you did was Nikki Haley.

Speaker 3 That's right.

Speaker 1 And Nikki's been a friend for years and, of course, was governor and ambassador of the UN, governor of South Carolina, ran for president, last one standing against Trump running for president on the Republican ticket.

Speaker 1 And she was a great interview.

Speaker 3 Yeah, really, really great. You know, we did not talk politics.
We talked leadership, something that she knows a lot about, having faced one of the biggest racial crises of our modern era.

Speaker 3 If you'll remember the tragic shooting in South Carolina, we talked about building a team. You know, she's been very successful in many walks of life.
So the idea behind the show is very simple.

Speaker 3 We want to have the audience feel as though

Speaker 3 live audience. And so they represent the greater audience.
When you see people sitting around or you hear them ask a question, if you're listening via podcast, they really symbolize you, the audience.

Speaker 3 And so we're very excited to bring this format, something I've always wanted to do. And

Speaker 3 it takes the level of I feel like I'm just an observer, and it makes it feel like you're engaged. The team has done a great job.
It's beautiful if you want to watch it on YouTube.

Speaker 3 It's just a fabulous studio, very warm and inviting. And then, of course, the audio product on your favorite podcast app.

Speaker 3 It is a show that you're going to be challenged every time. You're going to learn something and we're going to challenge you.

Speaker 1 Most of the time you're doing about 80% of the question answering, asking, and the audience are doing about 20%.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I would say it's a conversation. It's not even so much just the back and forth question, but a conversation with me and the guests for probably,

Speaker 3 you're right, 80% of it. And then the audience themselves at any time can interrupt interrupt and raise their hand and ask a question.
We want that studio audience to feel free.

Speaker 3 If you've heard something that you can jump right in and ask. And so once we get that finished product out, it's just a beautiful mix and people are really enjoying it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And the first several out are in the can and you can watch them now on YouTube.

Speaker 3 New episode comes out every Tuesday morning on YouTube and your favorite podcast app. Yep.

Speaker 1 So you can get it as a podcast or as a YouTube product, and it's just really quality. We're real proud of it.

Speaker 3 Give you an idea. Coming up this Tuesday, Will Gudera, who's a good friend of yours, become a friend of mine.
We're talking about the number one restaurateur in the world.

Speaker 3 That is an unbelievably difficult honor to achieve. And he's probably now one of the foremost experts on how to just treat people well with his runaway bestseller, Unreasonable Hospitality.

Speaker 3 So that deep dive is great for you.

Speaker 1 The sad thing about Will is he's unreasonably nice.

Speaker 3 One of the nicest people I've ever met.

Speaker 1 Ridiculous how nice he is. It's true.

Speaker 1 And yet we're still friends.

Speaker 1 He's unreasonably nice. Yeah, he's great.
He's a great guy. Hey, be sure you tune in.
You're going to love it.

Speaker 1 And that particular episode I'll be watching because I love Will and I love his material and I love the way he thinks. He dropped some gold on him.
Really, really good stuff.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm sure he had some mic drops in there. April's in Indianapolis.
Hey, April, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Hi, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 Sure. What's up?

Speaker 2 So I'm wanting to know how I can help my 71-year-old mother who has no retirement.

Speaker 2 She has a home and she's considering selling the home in order to be able to make it about 50 more years, but she's kind of in a rock and a hard place.

Speaker 2 And I didn't know if there's a way she can invest a little or find a way to

Speaker 2 maybe get a little extra money.

Speaker 1 So she has no money?

Speaker 2 None at all.

Speaker 1 And what's the house worth?

Speaker 2 It's probably about $175,000.

Speaker 2 But then she has to decide whether to rent or to go purchase another smaller home.

Speaker 1 Where does she live?

Speaker 2 She's in Evansville.

Speaker 1 Evansville, Kentucky?

Speaker 1 Indiana. Indiana.
I'm sorry. Evansville, Indiana.
In the border of Kentucky. Yeah, okay.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. Good news is it's not very expensive to live there.
You're calling me from Newark or from Indianapolis, and that's a little more.

Speaker 3 She has no income at all.

Speaker 1 She has Social Security.

Speaker 2 Well, she has Social Security, but she's afraid to get a job because then she'll lose her insurance, her Medicare.

Speaker 1 Well, what is her Social Security?

Speaker 2 What's her income? She's only getting $900 a month right about right now.

Speaker 1 Is she able to work?

Speaker 2 She is. She's actually she's pretty stubborn.
I love her to death, but she uh

Speaker 2 she's very independent and um

Speaker 2 kinda it's and a bit stubborn, but I love her. And I I keep saying, well, maybe

Speaker 2 if you could do this or that, she's kind of very adamant about not being in a community or being somewhere because she's 71 in April, but she thinks she's 50.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I know that. I know that feeling.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 What would you, if you could just snap your fingers and give her a job today, 40 hours a week, and everything was just hunky-dory, what would she do?

Speaker 3 What would you recommend that she would do just to bring in steady income?

Speaker 2 She's been a caregiver her whole life, a CNA or an at-home caregiver. She actually left being a CNA to go take care of her mother at the last five years of her life.

Speaker 2 And that's kind of why she's in this position.

Speaker 1 Where's your dad?

Speaker 2 Her dad?

Speaker 1 Your dad.

Speaker 2 Oh, my dad. Unfortunately, my dad is not in the picture.
He's off doing his own thing somewhere.

Speaker 1 Divorced a long time ago. Yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Yeah, divorced a long time ago.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 so we've

Speaker 1 the math will break your stubborn streak.

Speaker 1 I know, right? $900

Speaker 1 doesn't pay for property taxes, insurance on $175,000 house, and food and lights and water.

Speaker 2 Correct.

Speaker 1 Period. Period.
It doesn't do it. Not even in Evansville, Indiana, which is a wonderful community to live in and very inexpensive to live in compared to most places, especially metro areas.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, she could sell her house and buy a $75,000 one-bedroom condo there.

Speaker 1 Probably. That's probably real.
And it probably wouldn't be in the ghetto, right? Probably wouldn't be in the slums.

Speaker 1 And so it's not going to be great, but it'll be, you know, at least a place to live. And renting is not an option because rent goes up every year and she'll run through her money.

Speaker 1 It's not going to go up as fast as Social Security. So she's working.

Speaker 1 That's her only choice. It's her only choice.

Speaker 2 Well, then how do you navigate the not having insurance then?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 you're going to have to work on talking to

Speaker 1 finding out what Medicare does do in those situations and finding out exactly what the guidelines are. I don't know them off the top of my head.

Speaker 1 And start talking to insurance agents and finding ways to get care covered. But

Speaker 1 she's going to burn through the money from the house because you can't live on $900.

Speaker 2 Right. Well,

Speaker 2 she was living off the inheritance or the money that was left to her from her brother when he passed.

Speaker 1 But it's going to be gone.

Speaker 2 Oh, it's almost already gone. That's why she's kind of in this position.

Speaker 1 And then the money from the house will be the next thing that's gone. And then we're going to be back in this position because we don't want to admit that 900 bucks won't work it.
Won't work it.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 And so you don't have a choice. One of you, somewhere there's going to be some money into this picture.
Now, maybe you start giving her money. I don't know.
Or your brother who's a dentist.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I made that up.
But I don't know who's giving her money, but somebody's giving her money.

Speaker 1 So they're going to give her money to work or her kids are going to support her because she can't make it on that.

Speaker 3 Right. I just did a quick search while you guys were talking.
There are five big box stores in Evansville, Indiana. You know them.
I don't need to say them.

Speaker 3 And then I searched one of the biggest ones, and they have 100-plus jobs right now available. And a 71-year-old lady who's healthy, who's mature,

Speaker 3 I don't know that because I didn't click on it.

Speaker 1 Probably 20, 25 bucks.

Speaker 3 And that's what the math has got to be. So I I did that search because while Dave was talking, if this were my mom and that's what you call NASDAQ, then I would be going, mom, let's run the numbers.

Speaker 3 And you get into one of those stores, you're probably going to get some health care options. If not, it's still a math game and more money coming in, but she needs income.

Speaker 3 And I think at a healthy 71 with a smile and great work ethic, I think there'd be plenty of big box stores that would love to take care of her.

Speaker 1 And a caregiver probably can make more than she make there.

Speaker 1 And probably with the right care organization.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that was just a quick search.

Speaker 1 Hospital or whatever, you could get some health care.

Speaker 3 Great point on any health care facilities in the area.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1 Check on that. But I think mom,

Speaker 1 she's,

Speaker 1 I don't know how you help her grasp this, but the math is going to be forced upon her. Yeah.
And she's going to have to create some income.

Speaker 1 And the more income she creates, the sooner, the bigger chance we can build to be a... be to build a little bit of a nest egg to make it all the way through this and not have to work until you're 92.

Speaker 1 you know. Wow.

Speaker 1 This is why you invest $100 a month from age 25 to age 65 in a decent mutual fund is $1,176,000. And you don't have that trouble.
If you're 25 and you're listening to me, listen to her story.

Speaker 1 Hey, listen up. Everyone is at risk of identity theft.
I don't care if you're a hermit living off the grid listening to the show on a battery-powered radio.

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I talk to people every day who want to know how to do better in two areas, money and relationships.

Speaker 1 That's why I'm pumped to bring the Money and Relationships tour to a city near you. Join me and Dr.

Speaker 1 John Deloney for a night that will challenge the way you think about this stuff and possibly change how you live forever.

Speaker 1 Starting April 21st, we'll be in Louisville, then on to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City. Grab your tickets at ramseysolutions.com slash tour before they're gone.

Speaker 1 Ken Coleman Ramsey Personality is my co-host on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Andrea is with us.
Hi, Andrea. How are you? I'm great.
How are you? Better than I deserve.

Speaker 1 Where do you live? I live in Fort Myers, Florida. Excellent.
Welcome to Nashville. And here to do a debt-free scream.
How much have you paid off?

Speaker 6 $121,100.

Speaker 1 All right. Very good.
How long did that take? 28 months. Good for you.
And your range of income during that two and a half years?

Speaker 6 $85,2135.

Speaker 1 Wow, nice jump in two years. What do you do for a living?

Speaker 6 I am an insurance agent.

Speaker 1 Ah, okay. Why did your income go up so much?

Speaker 6 Well, I worked, and then also my book of business was growing as time went on.

Speaker 1 So you just built the business, built the business, but you had a real reason.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I paid off my house.

Speaker 1 Whoa, small mortgage and knocked it out. Yeah, sure did.
Very cool. So, what's this house worth in Fort Myers, Florida?

Speaker 6 Well, my neighbors are selling theirs next door, and it's around the 270.

Speaker 1 Wow, good for you. Way to go.
And how much in your retirement this day? $140. And how old are you? I'm 33.
You're no by light. I'm 32.
That's okay.

Speaker 1 You're rushing this. You're just rushing it.
Way to go.

Speaker 1 So proud of you. You're amazing.
Thank you. You have to feel like you have a superpower.

Speaker 6 I do. Yeah.
It's a great feeling. You know, you don't realize how much money is going away until you can start keeping all of it.

Speaker 1 What started all this two and a half years ago? You were just kind of going along being normal. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You were really in good shape. You only had a house payment.

Speaker 6 True.

Speaker 6 I mean, I did have debt prior, but I was always trying to get rid of it as much as possible and then when I started it I really felt that I purchased it back in 2019 that it wasn't going quick enough so I came around you in 2022 so I thought okay how can I get this going quicker and I came across you in that summer and then actually shortly after we were affected by Hurricane Ian so before I could go after the house payment I had to do some repairs yeah and then it wasn't until that new year in 2023 I really started to get aggressive and making these little goals for me because I just wanted to be done with it.

Speaker 6 And I really wanted to own my own house and be able to do it all.

Speaker 3 I'm impressed by, I mean, this is, you know, about $60,000 a year, roughly. Yeah.
You really went after it pretty hard. How did that change your lifestyle? And did you have second thoughts about it?

Speaker 3 And if so, how did you stay the course?

Speaker 6 I worked a lot so I couldn't have to spend it.

Speaker 6 And then what really helped me is the goal that I wanted, I started to do too strong of goals to see how close I could get to them, but I ended up succeeding on them.

Speaker 6 So when I was doing the first year, I wanted to get under 100, and then I did that with just a couple thousand under.

Speaker 6 So then I wanted to really be able to do a bigger goal at 50,000, and I thought that wasn't possible in a year.

Speaker 6 So then I surpassed that, but I had these little mini goals throughout the way to make sure I was on track and just be able to have that accountability that I'm doing it correctly because I wasn't great at the budget.

Speaker 6 I just wanted to be able to do each little goal to feel that I'm doing a great job.

Speaker 1 Love that. I'm a salesperson and I know that when I've got something I'm aiming at that I need, that I want the money for,

Speaker 1 it makes me work a little longer, make four more calls, make sure I answer every single thing. I wring every drop out of the wash rag before I go home because I'm trying to get there on everything.

Speaker 1 And if I don't have that, then I'm a little bit lazier.

Speaker 1 And so you were leaning in, weren't you? You were making every stinking closing.

Speaker 6 I was.

Speaker 1 You're closing every deal.

Speaker 1 So, but you, the interesting thing is you're 33 and you never really had huge debt I mean you your your mortgage is smaller than most people's student loans originally it was 151 I bought the house for sorry but you're killing but

Speaker 1 it was it was a good time to buy that's wild yeah and you're but so you must have grown up with parents that had common sense yeah I sure did okay who's this over here in the gallery that's my grandparents okay so that's where the common sense really came from yeah and my mom's here too okay mom's there how you mom

Speaker 1 way to go go. Well, they're all here cheering you on because they're real proud of you.
Yeah. But you're the product of the way they have lived their lives too.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 They taught me everything. Yeah.
I mean, 33 years old and not over your head drowning in $400,000 or $500,000 worth of miscellaneous everything is unusual.

Speaker 1 But you just had a small one and then you just killed it. You slayed it.
You took a machete to it. You're something, man.
That's so powerful. So you have no house payment, no payments of any kind.

Speaker 1 You are are officially weird.

Speaker 1 Yeah. How does that feel?

Speaker 6 It feels great. It really does.

Speaker 6 I didn't think I was going to be emotional. But yeah, it's a great feeling where I just don't have to rely on anything where it's all, I have control.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 6 In that situation where if something's going wrong, I know I can,

Speaker 6 I really love when you said, I can't control what's going on in the White House, but I can control what's in my house. And that meant a lot.
So sorry.

Speaker 1 That's okay. No apologies.

Speaker 3 That's beautiful.

Speaker 1 What you're showing is that when you set all this debt down that everyone else is carrying,

Speaker 1 they're walking around holding their breath. Yeah.
And you can breathe. That's all you're showing.
And it changes everything. So you're fabulous.
Thank you. You're a rock star, man.

Speaker 1 Appreciate everything you guys do. You're amazing.
I'm so proud of you. Very, very well done.
What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is?

Speaker 6 Set a goal. That's important.

Speaker 1 And the mini goals.

Speaker 6 The mini goals. Yes.

Speaker 6 I didn't have an accountability partner with me, but listening to you you guys every day was my accountability where I was making sure that I was staying on track and then just having the mini goals, knowing that you're still going on that trend.

Speaker 6 Because when you're doing a whole year, a lot can happen in that year. So when I was doing monthly or weekly goals, that's really what helped me get that motivation of I'm doing everything correctly.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but you're a numbers girl. Yeah, I am.
And so those numbers were your accountability partner. You're looking at them and they're screaming at you.
Yeah. Get after it or you're doing good.

Speaker 1 They're talking back to you.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 You know what I love about this, Dave? You've taught for years at Andrea Leadership, you know, in your number one best-selling book about goal setting and realistic goals, achievable goals.

Speaker 3 And I love that's what you've got with these weekly and these monthly. Real curious, give us a real example.

Speaker 3 Because I think people out there that are listening, watching, could get something from that. Give us an example of that yearly goal and then break it down on what you did on a weekly and a monthly.

Speaker 6 Yep, so then I would just, when I wanted my mortgage to be at 50,000 at the end of the year, I broke it down monthly to every two weeks of where it should be at if I was making extra payments.

Speaker 6 So I knew by September it had to be at this amount of money if I was going to to be on track.

Speaker 6 So at the end, I knew in 2024 I was going to pay off the house, but then I made another goal to be more aggressive to have it paid off before my birthday.

Speaker 6 So I was at least keeping track of where I was at in the year, but I had another line of where I needed to be if I wanted to supersede it earlier in that year.

Speaker 1 And that was so firmly seared into your brain that you forgot how old you were a minute ago.

Speaker 1 By my birthday, and you beat your birthday, so you thought you were 33 because it was by my birthday. Yeah.
I love it. That's good.

Speaker 1 that's good i like this that tells how much emotion you put into this yeah that's that's fabulous good for you thank you well done well done man that's that's put you in a different place you're a different kind of salesperson now yeah i don't need to make the sale now yeah and uh you didn't need to before correct but now you don't have any reason except doing the right thing for the people making sure they get the right coverage yeah good for you well done well i'm sure grandma and grandpa and mom are proud i'm sure that's why they're here cheering you on we're proud of you rock star you're a hero Appreciate it.

Speaker 1 Absolutely amazing.

Speaker 1 Andrea, is it Andrea or Andrea? It's both. No, which is it? Andrea? Andrea.
Andrea. I'll get it right.
I'll get it right. Andrea from Fort Myers, Florida.
$121,000 paid off in 28 months.

Speaker 1 You're looking at a millennial with a paid-for house. You know how much whining I heard in this discussion? Zero.

Speaker 1 I'm telling you, the millennials are out there that are awesome, and she is a representative of them. There's some of them that are amazing, and she's an amazing one.

Speaker 1 28 months did this, making 85 to 135. Count it down.
Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

Speaker 6 I'm debt-free.

Speaker 1 Yeah!

Speaker 1 Amazing.

Speaker 1 I've lost hope that I'm ever going to buy a home. The American Dream is dead.
The American Dream is dead. I can't buy a home.
Oh, she just said, hold my beer.

Speaker 1 I mean, come on. I love it.
Wow.

Speaker 1 That's done. She just took away all your excuses out there, some of you.
Some of you, you can get with it. You can decide, I don't have to eat out every night.

Speaker 1 I don't have to have a frou fruit pumpkin latte spice double back flip every day. I mean, I can do all kinds of stuff.
I can do all kinds of stuff if I have a goal. I'm 33 with a paid-for house.

Speaker 1 What would you do to trade with her?

Speaker 1 What would you do

Speaker 1 to trade with her? Oh, maybe it's your turn.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage.

Speaker 1 To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros.

Speaker 1 Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would.

Speaker 1 Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com slash insurance.

Speaker 1 After this segment, the rest of the show will be available only on the Ramsey app each day.

Speaker 1 And you can catch everything you want on YouTube and podcast. And after that, the rest of the show is on the Ramsey Network app.
It's completely free. There is no paywall.

Speaker 1 There is no salesman will call. We're not going to start charging for it.
We use the Ramsey Network app to give you things you can't get anywhere else.

Speaker 1 And we put everything else out here where you can get it for free. And so jump on this for free.
Download the app and stay tuned.

Speaker 1 You guys on radio, stay tuned. You'll get what you've always gotten.
We haven't changed any of that.

Speaker 1 you know finish the show in the ramsey app and you can listen to the whole show in the ramsey app and watch the whole show in the ramsey app so it's all there uh hey guys you don't want to miss our two-night virtual event coming up investing essentials i've only done this one other time george Campbell and I are getting together, and George is doing a deep dive on some of the investing trends that are out there right now, some of the details of the Trump Tax Act that looks like it's going through.

Speaker 1 We'll know by the time we do it that night. If it does go through, we'll be able to tell you exactly what that means in your investing, if it means anything at all.

Speaker 1 If it doesn't affect it, we're not going to spend much time on it, but we'll go into that. I'm going to open up only for the second time ever.
I did it about this time last year.

Speaker 1 We did one of these, and I spent a whole two and a half half hours on real estate, investing in real estate. I own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate.

Speaker 1 I've been buying real estate since I was 18 years old. I actually went broke in the real estate business later doing stupid stuff, so I know what it looks like.
I have a PhD in DUMB.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 yeah, I can pass along to you the real world knowledge there. And, you know, we own several hundred million today.
So, I'm going to show you exactly how to do that. I've got a degree in real estate.

Speaker 1 It's what I love. It's my second favorite thing to do other than doing stuff around Ramsey.
And

Speaker 1 we'll get into all of that. We're going to get into whatever, if there's anything at all, we don't know yet, but we'll see what happens with this tax act, if it even passes by then.

Speaker 1 We'll get into that.

Speaker 1 And we're certainly going to get into all the fads and all the stuff that you hear about and the smart stuff that's out there and the dumb stuff that's out there and show you why and teach you to think properly about investing.

Speaker 1 It's a two-night event. It's a lot of information.
We're going to nerd out.

Speaker 1 If you want to just be entertained and giggle, don't come. You'll be asleep.
Because we're going to go into the weeds, baby, with the sickle and cut the weeds and run the snakes out.

Speaker 1 That's what we're doing. So

Speaker 1 you wanted the nerdville. George is natural at it, but I can do it.
I know how to do it. My brain can do it.
And so I forced myself for two nights. It's two hours each night.

Speaker 1 Two different sets of materials, March 4th and 5th. Tickets start at $199.
You can get them at ramseysolutions.com slash events. It is a virtual event.

Speaker 1 George Camel, Dave Ramsey, Investing Essentials, Ramseysolutions.com, $199 for March 4th and 5th. That's only, what, two weeks away or something like that? So you probably ought to go ahead and

Speaker 1 get it on the calendar, get signed up. Honey, I'm going to be doing this.
We're going to be doing this.

Speaker 1 We're going to turn it on Apple TV and put it up on the TV and watch it or however you techno people do that stuff, right? So there we go. Atlanta, Georgia, Luke is with us.

Speaker 1 Hey, Luke, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Hey, thanks for having me on the call. I love the show.

Speaker 2 My question is: 50% of my income is in my housing, and I have $190,000 in stock.

Speaker 2 So, should I sell the stock and recast my mortgage to lower my monthly payment?

Speaker 1 What do you owe on the house?

Speaker 2 I owe $402,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. What do you make?

Speaker 2 I make, I bring home $6,300 per month

Speaker 2 before 401k.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 you have a lot of money in savings. That's the only way you can breathe.

Speaker 1 Because monthly

Speaker 1 to death, aren't you?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Are you married? I have

Speaker 2 married.

Speaker 2 My parents and grandparents have been good to me.

Speaker 2 I have some savings.

Speaker 2 But yeah,

Speaker 2 we're not saving a whole lot each month.

Speaker 1 You're not breathing on my income and expenses. I mean, I know what your budget looks like with what you're telling me.
You have a $400,000 mortgage and a $6,300 take-home.

Speaker 1 I mean, you're starving to death. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it is not a sustainable situation.

Speaker 1 No, it is not. So something's got to go.

Speaker 1 Is your income going to be changing positively? So I just

Speaker 2 got a new job, and

Speaker 2 now I was making $85,000. Now I'm going to be making $95,000.
And so that $6,300 per month is from that $95, my new salary.

Speaker 1 Okay. What decision-making

Speaker 1 framework or process allowed you to do something this stupid?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 you signed up for death here, right?

Speaker 2 Right, right.

Speaker 1 So yeah, my wife, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so my wife had

Speaker 2 an income as well when we first bought the house. Her income was the same as mine, so it was much better.

Speaker 2 Then we had two kids, and we decided that

Speaker 2 at some point we would have to either move or increase our income and she wanted to, or we decided that she would stay home with the kids.

Speaker 2 But we knew that we would have to either move or increase our income for that to happen. And so we're just getting that.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you didn't do either.

Speaker 1 You didn't increase your income. Well, you increased your income a little, but not enough to where you can breathe.
A little bit. Right, right.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, you lost an $80,000 income and gained a $20,000 raise or whatever it is, right?

Speaker 1 Okay. So the reason I'm digging around here is this.
You can fix this with your suggestion. You drop $190 on this and you recast.
You're going to have to refinance. It's not recast.

Speaker 1 They're not going to recast the mortgage unless you got a bank loan. But you could just go get another mortgage.
What's your current interest rate?

Speaker 2 5.25. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 So you can get another mortgage and not see much difference there. A little bit maybe, but it's not appreciatively different.
And you'll have a $200,000 loan, and you can afford that. Okay?

Speaker 1 Now, if you do that, though, you don't get another one of these.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So you guys really have to do an autopsy on ⁇ that's why I'm busting your chops on your decision making because you can't sign up for this and go, yeah, but I don't want to work anymore.

Speaker 1 That's not an option. You just sold the house when you went home.
Normal people don't have $190K in the bank to bail this out.

Speaker 1 And you won't next time.

Speaker 1 So the next time you do this, you're selling the house and moving down in-house so she can be at home with the kids. And I'm okay with that decision, but make the decision.

Speaker 1 Don't stand around and act like nothing happened and starve to death. Because y'all are starving, man.
I know what your budget looks like. I'm sad for you.

Speaker 1 The stress in your, that's running down your shoulder blades has got to be unbelievable.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 One other question is: you know,

Speaker 2 I had had questions about would I miss out on gains and the stock?

Speaker 2 And I kind of feel like I shouldn't worry about the gains and missing out on gains and the stock if you know if it's helping with my monthly budget. But how do you feel about that?

Speaker 1 You can't afford the house.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 If you want the gains,

Speaker 1 sell the house and move to a $200,000 house.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Which one do you want?

Speaker 2 I want stability and

Speaker 2 a house. I don't really care about the gains.
Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. Then you made your choice.
But you can't have both. You understand?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
You can't keep this house the way it's set right now. Right.
It's killing you. Okay.

Speaker 1 You know, and don't do this again.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I listen to this and we hear this a lot. You know, I understand the wife wanting to come home and be with the children.

Speaker 1 I concur. Do it.

Speaker 3 But they should have made the choice on the house back then.

Speaker 1 They should have put a house for sales on the yard. The day you do it.
I agree.

Speaker 3 You've got to adjust your lifestyle when you adjust your life.

Speaker 3 In other words, they didn't adjust their lifestyle.

Speaker 1 Staying home with the children is the right decision. Yes, it is.

Speaker 1 But then there's math that goes with that.

Speaker 1 Okay, I'm with you on that. No problem.
But there's math. You can't ignore the math, and you don't get a pass on math because you did the right thing.
Math will still smack you upside the head.

Speaker 1 That's the problem with it. It's mean.
It's nasty. It doesn't have feelings.

Speaker 1 And it will just, ooh, it will mess with you.

Speaker 1 And then you wake up and you can't sleep and you don't know why. That's right.
And you're fighting with your spouse and you don't know why. I know why.
Your house payment's 50% of your take-home pay.

Speaker 1 You can't breathe. And

Speaker 1 this is what just number one cause of divorce in North America today, money fights and money problems.

Speaker 1 And it's all exactly around issues that

Speaker 1 sound like this. Sweet little people.
Luke's a nice guy. He's a nice guy.
Sell your house, Luke, or sell your stock by Friday.

Speaker 1 This week, Friday.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Sheriff.