Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today

Speaker 1 Live from Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camilla, joined by the great Dr.

Speaker 1 John Deloney, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 You call us up, and we will do our best to give you the right next step for your life, your relationships, your emotional and mental health, and your money. Jessica is going to kick us off in Seattle.

Speaker 1 How can we help, Jessica?

Speaker 2 Hey, guys, how's it going?

Speaker 3 Great, how are you?

Speaker 2 Not too bad.

Speaker 2 I'll cut it. So, Chase,

Speaker 2 I've got bipolar one. I was diagnosed when I was 19, so I'm 24 now.
And

Speaker 2 I've been on my meds, been in therapy for five years the whole time, and then just kind of crashed this last couple months.

Speaker 2 I went into a full-blown manic episode for about eight weeks,

Speaker 2 racked up

Speaker 2 $20,000 in debt. and blew through my savings.
That was almost $20,000. And I'm financially not in the best situation right now.

Speaker 2 I make 104 right now. I quit my job when the manic episode happened and luckily caught a new one that I started in October.
So I'm just a little lost and scared of myself, if I'm being honest.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's it, right? You're ⁇ well, number one, can I just tell you I'm proud of you?

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 3 That's going to sound bananas, but

Speaker 3 you've had one blowout in five years.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I've dealt with manic and depressive episodes in that time, but nothing to

Speaker 3 this degree. But that tells me you've been working real hard.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 That means you've been taking your meds even when you don't want to. That means you've been going to counseling even when you don't want to.
That means you've been putting the work in.

Speaker 3 I'm proud of you. That's hard.
Thank you. Okay.
Thank you. And

Speaker 3 I love your self-awareness is pretty amazing.

Speaker 3 Yeah, the person that you've lost trust in is not your boss is not the government whatever it's you right and that's just a scary place to find yourself when you're worried about what you're going to do next um so

Speaker 3 when you are you are you pretty leveled out right now or do you fall do you go down in the valley after a a pretty pretty hot episode um

Speaker 2 typically i go straight plummeting down um luckily i got a new psychiatrist and i'm on a new medication um over the last two to four weeks. I've been taking it, I want to say.

Speaker 3 Feel good?

Speaker 2 And it's, it's, yeah, I feel pretty,

Speaker 2 I'll be honest, I feel

Speaker 2 like normal, if you will, mellow, medium, whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 2 But to me, this is my

Speaker 2 own

Speaker 2 guess here, but because I was manic for so long, normal feels dull and low.

Speaker 3 That's right. That's right.
Lame.

Speaker 3 And yeah, lame. That's a good guy.
I love that word. And that's the challenge, right? Is how do you

Speaker 3 it's making making peace with the ordinary, right? Making peace with day in and day out. That's hard.
That's hard.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Here is the best, worst news I'm going to give you, okay?

Speaker 3 You have one choice. Actually, that's not true.
You have two choices.

Speaker 3 Choice number one

Speaker 3 is to say, see, I told you so.

Speaker 3 You blew it all. You screwed up everything.

Speaker 3 It's just going to keep happening forever, whatever.

Speaker 3 Or

Speaker 3 you can look at the data you have in front of you. The data says for five years, you scratched, you clawed.

Speaker 3 And by the way, you got a diagnosis at 19, and that means that 18, 17, 16, 15 were really tough years for you, weren't they?

Speaker 3 Yeah. So you got at 19 and you've been wobbly and figuring it out and doing pretty dang well, making a whole bunch of money, which tells me you're really good at what you do.

Speaker 3 And you had one

Speaker 3 kind of off-the-rails manic episode. You quit your job and you managed to go get your dust yourself off and go get another six-figure job.

Speaker 3 And now you're back at it. So option two is

Speaker 3 you take your lumps, you learn,

Speaker 3 you put one hurdle in front of yourself, which is you have one or two people that you know and you trust and love who have your your ATM number and your Amazon login.

Speaker 3 And the next time they see you starting to spin up, they have permission from you in writing that they can go cut something off.

Speaker 3 And you're just going to need different hurdles than other people, but everybody's got their own hurdles.

Speaker 3 Yours are going to be taller because you've got, you know, BP1, but dude, I'm just, I'm proud of you. The thing I don't want you to do is give up on you because your track record is pretty dang good.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 2 I've dealt with a lot, and, you know, like, I mean, I've been a Division I athlete. I

Speaker 2 hit all the milestones I was supposed to do, and now I just feel stuck and like a healthier.

Speaker 2 And I'm not good at reaching out for help. I don't want help.
I

Speaker 2 keep telling myself, you know, I can... I can truck along and figure this out on my own.
And I'm realizing that.

Speaker 3 You can't. You can't.
That's okay.

Speaker 3 And you know who else can't? Me. You know who else can't? George.

Speaker 3 Dave. None of us can.

Speaker 1 And you reached out for help right now.

Speaker 3 You called the show. That's bravery.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So you realize that it's okay to bring others in to help you through this and no one's going to judge you. And the ones that do, get them out of your life.

Speaker 1 And so I love John's idea of make the bad things difficult to do and make the good things easier to do. And we did this with my, with our little toddler.

Speaker 1 We took off all the ornaments on the bottom of the tree so that she couldn't reach them and smash them.

Speaker 1 And so, for you, that means freezing your credit, cutting up the credit card, and putting some restrictions to make it harder to spend.

Speaker 1 Put friction in your life to where you can't spend money on that credit card because you don't have one anymore.

Speaker 3 And by the way, it feels like the end of the world. George and I talk to people all day long who don't have bipolar one who blow through $20,000, $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 in credit card debt.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And so $20,000, making $100,000 a year, $105,000,

Speaker 3 you're going to be able to pay that off real quick.

Speaker 1 Could you put $4,000 a month toward this debt right now with your income? If you got on a real tight budget?

Speaker 2 Yes. The other issue is that $5,500 of it is what I'm calling a personal loan, but

Speaker 2 is to someone that

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 I gathered a bit of a gambling problem over this last episode. Okay.
And I lost $8,000 to someone who was supplying that money for me to gamble with.

Speaker 3 Do you have savings that you can go pay them off today?

Speaker 2 No, I blew through the savings I had on top of the $18,000 I have left.

Speaker 3 So at $104,000 a year, can you go down to a local credit union and take out a loan for $4,000?

Speaker 3 Or $5,500 and get them paid off?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 3 Do that today. Do that today.
Okay. And then delete their number out of your phone

Speaker 1 and and block it and block it and delete every app off your phone and then debt snowball the rest whatever the smallest balance debt is we're gonna attack that first make minimum payments on the rest

Speaker 3 hang on the line i'm gonna send you financial peace university we're gonna get you hooked up and i'm gonna send you the every dollar app and i would love it if you had an accountability partner who also you could connect to the every dollar app and y'all could review budgets together or if you bought stuff it shows up and they can see it too and that might be a way that you can have mutual accountability with somebody.

Speaker 3 But all in all, man, you had a rough season. And by the way, if you've got

Speaker 3 trouble with gambling,

Speaker 3 go to a meeting tonight, go to a meeting in the morning, get on top of this stuff.

Speaker 3 But man, you are on the right track. I want you to dust yourself up and get up and go again.
I'm proud of you. We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. The phone number to call is 888-825-5225.
It's the only way to get on the air to talk to the great Dr. John.

Speaker 3 And George.

Speaker 3 And hey, I want to hijack this for one second.

Speaker 3 This is totally self-serving America. Listen, my YouTube channel is at 997,000 followers.
I'm 3,000 away. I want to hit that million mark before Christmas.

Speaker 3 Wherever you happen to be right now, if you'll stop and go to the Dr. John Deloney show and subscribe on YouTube, just help me hit that million mark real quick.

Speaker 3 It'd be a Christmas miracle.

Speaker 3 That is so good.

Speaker 1 Thank you for that. You're right.
I'm not even going to mention my YouTube channel.

Speaker 3 Nobody cares, but I'm so excited.

Speaker 1 It's fine. No, John needs the affirmation.
I need this.

Speaker 1 He's very insecure. So if you want to give him a gift, hit a button that makes him feel better about it.

Speaker 3 Hit the subscribe button. Be good to go.

Speaker 1 You're exhausting. All right.
We're going to try to help Joe in Detroit up next. Joe, how can we help you today?

Speaker 2 Hello, hello. How are you guys?

Speaker 3 Doing well. How are you?

Speaker 2 Good.

Speaker 2 So I have a question.

Speaker 2 Heading into the new year, I'm going to continue contributing to my retirement about 15%.

Speaker 2 My company offers 401k, where I can contribute either pre-tax or Roth

Speaker 2 dollars into.

Speaker 2 And they contribute 12.5% annually.

Speaker 2 And they don't even offer a match. So they just flat out give 12.5%

Speaker 3 to have a map.

Speaker 1 I'll take that over a match, man. That's incredible.

Speaker 3 That's their money. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Not your money. They're forcing it, but it's their company money.
They're putting in 12.5% of your income.

Speaker 3 Yes. That's awesome.

Speaker 2 Very generous. And

Speaker 2 it's a great company. So I really enjoy working with them.
So

Speaker 2 my question is, should I go hard into that? Because I can contribute

Speaker 2 Roth

Speaker 2 dollars into the 401k.

Speaker 2 I think what they contribute is pre-tax, but should I go hard into that 401k with Roth or should I continue doing a Roth IRA where I'm trying to max that out each year?

Speaker 3 Great question.

Speaker 1 I would focus on the Roth side of the 401k.

Speaker 1 And if you have great funds in there, if they have some decent options, it sounds like they do based on how they treat this retirement program, you could do all 15% in that Roth 401k of your own money.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 It'll be very similar to the Roth IRA. It probably has very similar funds.
There's not going to be that much of a difference.

Speaker 1 The difference with the Roth IRA is you can invest in any fund in the world.

Speaker 1 And on top of that, you know, you can look at expense ratios. But I think it's a good deal to invest in that Roth 401k.
And again, their side will be the traditional pre-tax side. That's okay.

Speaker 1 When you get to retirement, when you hit baby step seven, you could begin rolling some of that money over from the traditional side to the Roth side and pay the taxes on it.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Gotcha. Yeah, because right now I kind of dabbled in both.
I have a Roth with about

Speaker 2 a Roth IRA with about four grand in it

Speaker 1 which I can kind of use as like an emergency fund I guess but no that's a retirement fund not an emergency fund your emergency fund should be just in savings outside of that

Speaker 2 yeah

Speaker 2 I mean that was the plan too but do you have any debt heading the new year

Speaker 1 no I have no debt okay awesome and do you have an emergency fund saved

Speaker 2 I have a saving, a high-yield savings account with some money in there.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 Your goal should be three to six months of expenses in that high-yield savings account. Then beyond that, invest 15% of your own income regardless of what the company's putting in.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 And how old are you? Sounds good.

Speaker 2 24.

Speaker 3 Oh, man.

Speaker 1 The fact that you're talking about this stuff now and already investing, you're going to be just fine.

Speaker 1 The key is just invest consistently, never stop. From 24 to 64, that's 40 years of growth.
It'll blow your your mind. Go punch it into our investment calculator and have a Merry Christmas.

Speaker 2 All right. Well, thank you so much.

Speaker 3 Yeah, thanks for the question, man.

Speaker 2 Because I was kind of debating between the two accounts. So thank you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they're very similar. And for everyone listening in, going, what the heck? The pre-tax and the traditional Roth is just the tax treatment.

Speaker 1 So the pre-tax means you're going to get the tax deduction now, but you're going to have to pay taxes on it later when you take it out in retirement. With the Roth account, it's going to be after tax.

Speaker 1 So you don't get the tax deduction come tax time, but when you withdraw that money in retirement, it grows tax-free and you can withdraw it tax-free. So I love that.

Speaker 1 You can control the controllables because I don't know what taxes are going to be when I retire, you know, 30 years from now. So I like knowing that it's tax-free.

Speaker 1 If there's $2 million in that account, that's like $2 million of take-home pay in retirement. So I like that plan.
Let's go to Alice up next in Sacramento. Welcome to the Ramsey Show, Alice.

Speaker 2 Hi, I have to say thank you to both of you and to the whole Ramsey team for everything you do.

Speaker 1 We're happy to do it.

Speaker 3 It's an honor.

Speaker 2 I have a question today, kind of a fun one. In 2011, I moved back from college.

Speaker 2 I'm from Fremont, California. And my mom said, hey, the car plant that's been, it used to be called New Me, dead for years, a little

Speaker 2 electric car company from across the Bay is going to start building cars there. Let's invest.
And threw $1,000, all I had at the time, into Tesla Stock.

Speaker 2 And last week, I'm upwards of $380,000.

Speaker 3 And we owe, yes, sir.

Speaker 1 From that $1,000, you didn't put in a dime more. $1,000 turned into $280,000 because you were on the very front end of buying Tesla stock.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 I put in $1,000. I did not put in a dime more.
Upwards of $380,000. Wow.

Speaker 3 That is wild.

Speaker 2 It is wild.

Speaker 3 Have you ever played a lottery? Because if not, you should probably start.

Speaker 2 No, sir. That is the one time I will have won the lottery in this lifetime, I believe.

Speaker 3 Oh, congratulations. Way to go.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 2 So now, you know, happily married. We owe $288 on our home.

Speaker 2 And the question is whether we sell with the potential, of course, nobody knows what Tesla's capable of, to pay off the home, or if we hang on to it.

Speaker 1 Well, what's your household income this year?

Speaker 2 This year it will be $175,000.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 So here's the question. I'm a big fan of...

Speaker 2 I missed book $275,000.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 You just missed by $100,000. No big deal.

Speaker 3 That's it. Yeah, no big deal.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 my immediate gut reaction was, oh, my gosh, sell it and pay off the house today.

Speaker 1 What I want you to think about and talk to a tax pro about are the tax implications because you're going to have to pay the capital gains on this,

Speaker 1 which will be a significant tax bill.

Speaker 1 And so I just want to make sure if you talk to a tax pro, there may be a better strategy to sell portions of this off, you know, every year and use that toward the house payoff to get this done over the next three years, for example.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Instead of paying a larger tax bill with your tax brackets, you know, because you're basically paying taxes on $379,000 of gain.

Speaker 2 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 So I would crunch the numbers with a tax bro and see what the best strategy is. But yes, as soon as you can get that house paid off and get out of a single stock, the better.

Speaker 1 And if you invest in a mutual fund and you're 401k, Tesla's going to be in there. It's just going to diversify your risk because Elon could, you know,

Speaker 1 Trump could go, ah, Elon's not a friend of mine anymore. And Tesla's stock takes a 10% dip in one day.
We just don't know. Sure.

Speaker 2 Sure.

Speaker 3 So George gave you the money part

Speaker 3 can i just give you my two cents what i would do in my house please um how long have you been married

Speaker 2 uh we've been married 13 years oh gross y'all still like each other

Speaker 2 oh we love each other that's so i told him no one's getting out of this alive

Speaker 2 dude awesome awesome a little frightening but also awesome um what do y'all do for a living y'all make a great salary what do you do for a living oh my husband's in law enforcement and my salary-this is the first year I'm at 115.

Speaker 2 I'm an engineer for a major telecommunications company.

Speaker 2 But that comes with a big caveat: I am a contract, I'm not directly on quite yet. That's right.

Speaker 2 So, we have always

Speaker 2 a large savings as well, and we've always been able to live within the means of his income. Mine has been extra right now.
And

Speaker 2 yes, and also,

Speaker 2 you you know, not guaranteed.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 if I'm you, I want you to imagine, you and your husband just imagine this weekend. What would our marriage be like? What would our life be like if we had no house payment?

Speaker 3 And if I'm you, I've put $1,000 on the table and I got $380,000. I won.

Speaker 3 I've won with a period at the end. I might keep winning more.

Speaker 3 I would pull my money off the table, go to the window, cash out and say goodbye, Vegas, and I'd pay my house off and I'd have a different level of peace in my home.

Speaker 3 And I'd never look at the Tesla stock price again because it's only gonna make you crazy but I'd sell it and get out

Speaker 1 welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Dr.
John Deloney.

Speaker 1 Hey student loan debt is an epidemic and defaulting on debt makes you feel even worse.

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Speaker 3 Today's question comes from Vince in Massachusetts. Vince writes, My son graduated from high school this year.

Speaker 3 He lives with his mother and doesn't have any ambition to go to college or to even get a job. He's blocked all contact with me.
My current wife and I are preparing to create our wills. My question is,

Speaker 3 what would you do if you were in this situation?

Speaker 3 Part of me doesn't want to leave him any assets because I'm afraid if he knows there's an inheritance, he'll never have any incentive to make something of himself.

Speaker 3 I love the question. I don't like so much this idea that inheritance is an ROI that your kid has

Speaker 3 performed up to your standards. So I guess,

Speaker 3 although there is some life and like behavior standards too, right? So So A,

Speaker 3 I guess if he's blocked all contact with you, that's one thing. So no, I would not leave somebody in the will who has cut me out of their life.

Speaker 3 The second thing, though, is he's 18.

Speaker 3 He's a teenager, and he's probably dealt with a lot of trauma in his life, probably dealt with a lot of chaos from y'all's divorce, you getting remarried, and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 So I would have some compassion there, too.

Speaker 3 My hope would be at some point y'all could sit down and have a grown-up conversation and let him know I've got inheritance.

Speaker 3 And I don't know with sometimes people are like, I got a ton of money, it's $25,000. And then sometimes it's like, Dave, like, I got a ton of money, it's $700 million.
And you're like, okay.

Speaker 3 So I think it depends on how much money we're talking here.

Speaker 3 But I think if he knows, no, I'm going to pay for him to go to college, I'm going to support him to go to med school to do whatever.

Speaker 3 I think it's worth having those conversations.

Speaker 3 At the end of the day, if you've got a son or daughter who's struggling with mental health challenges, if you've got a son or daughter that is struggling with some form of addiction,

Speaker 3 just dumping a bunch of money into their checking account after you pass away is going to kill them. It's the worst thing you could do.

Speaker 3 And so I do think there is room for, hey, here's my expectations. Expectations are you are a good person, that you treat people with dignity and respect, that you work hard in your job.

Speaker 3 And here is how my will is set up right now. You don't have that luxury because he won't talk to you.
Maybe you could set up in a trust so that

Speaker 3 with a custodian that based on certain metrics, once he graduates college, then this comes. So if he never goes to college, then this money never comes.

Speaker 3 And then eventually it rolls to a charity of your choice or something. But I'd sit down with

Speaker 3 a

Speaker 3 state attorney and work through the knickknacks of that stuff.

Speaker 3 But I think there's, George, I think it comes down to most kids think, I just get, I have a right to mom and dad's money, which isn't true.

Speaker 3 And then I think the other side is mom and dads often think, oh, I have to do this with my money. I have to give it to my kid or else and they won't like me.

Speaker 3 It's like, man, he already doesn't like you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, the irony here is he's saying he already doesn't have ambition and he has no clue that there could be an inheritance. So adding one to the picture is not going to remove more ambition.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 1 So it's, I would see if I can repair the relationship. You can always change your will later.
This is not like a forever thing. But what would I do at this point?

Speaker 1 If there's no connection to this person, they've cut me out. There's no reason to leave them in if you don't want to.
That's your choice.

Speaker 1 If you want to leave a million dollars anyways, that's also your choice. But I would do my best to see what's behind that lack of ambition because, like John said, there's likely trauma.

Speaker 1 There's just a lack of hope. And I think he does want to make something of himself.
He just needs some support to get there.

Speaker 3 And one last note.

Speaker 3 Vince, if your son's not talking to you because you were a jerk when he was a kid, let's say you treated his mom real poorly

Speaker 3 when y'all were married and you went and cleaned your life up and you've changed and you've got a new wife, a new life, and y'all are doing great.

Speaker 3 But son's still harboring some anger and some rage. Don't give him a bunch of money as a way to buy back his goodwill.
That's going to backfire on you.

Speaker 3 And that's just me throwing that out there. We often try to solve guilt through our wills, right? Like, I'm going to do this.
And then when I'm dead, they're going to think good of me.

Speaker 1 It might make you feel better, but it doesn't actually solve.

Speaker 3 But you'll be dead. You'll be dead.
Right. So, and maybe this is a conversation between you and your ex-wife, you and his mom,

Speaker 3 to talk through where he's at, what he wants to do. But there seems to be a lot more going on here.
So there you go.

Speaker 1 Thanks for the question.

Speaker 3 Did you put your kid in your will?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Oh, you're one of those parents, huh?

Speaker 1 Are you not supposed to? I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3 I did too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's like, sorry.

Speaker 3 I was hoping you were going to say no.

Speaker 1 That would have been hilarious. Delone's kids are listening.
They just learned that, you know, learned about Santa today. There we go.
Zach is up next in Tulsa. What's going on, Zach?

Speaker 2 How's it going, guys?

Speaker 1 Pretty good. How are you?

Speaker 2 Doing good. My mom's played this show in the car since I was like eight, so it's

Speaker 2 for you to be a good place to go for my question. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 Well, depending on how old is it?

Speaker 3 If you're 10, that's not that impressive. Hold on.

Speaker 3 How old? I'm 25. Wow, 25.
George wasn't even born when you started watching this show. That's amazing.

Speaker 1 That's weird to think about.

Speaker 3 So what's up, dude?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so my wife and I recently started kind of our quote-unquote big boy and big girl jobs out of college. And her job comes with our housing being paid for for the next year and a half to two years.

Speaker 2 And so in March, we're projected to be done paying off our student loans. We've kind of been attacking those for the last nine months.

Speaker 2 And so from March until whenever we move out of this place, we're kind of just going to be raking in an income without a lot of expenses. And so we were looking for ways to

Speaker 2 invest that smartly and save up for a home,

Speaker 2 but we're kind of new to that whole realm. So we were looking for some advice.

Speaker 1 But you just told me you have a bunch of debt to pay off, right?

Speaker 2 Actually, not a bunch. We've done a lot of work on that in the last year.
We started with about $60,000 in debt when we both graduated, and we're down to $13,000 left.

Speaker 3 Great.

Speaker 1 So how fast can we pay off the $13,000?

Speaker 2 We're expected to be done with that by like mid-March.

Speaker 1 Okay. So by March, you're debt-free.
Then how long until you have a fully funded emergency fund?

Speaker 2 We already have a fully funded emergency fund. We kind of did the baby steps wacky, but

Speaker 3 you've been listening to the show for since you were like 17 years old.

Speaker 1 And you decided Zach's plan is better than Dave's.

Speaker 3 Bold choice sounds very Oklahoman, if you ask me.

Speaker 1 So the question is, why do you feel like your method is more optimal?

Speaker 2 Well, I don't think it's more optimal.

Speaker 2 We're in an optimal position

Speaker 2 where we're going to be debt-free, and we don't know if we should invest just the 15% that's part of BabyStep 3, or if we should increase that

Speaker 2 while we're not paying for where we live. Like, should we be investing 25, 30% because we don't have any other expenses?

Speaker 3 Well, don't you want a home one day?

Speaker 2 We do, yeah.

Speaker 1 So you're going to need to save up for that, and that's why we position Babysip 3B before 4. So 3B is save up your down payment.

Speaker 1 Once you're debt-free with an emergency fund, start saving up the down payment. You can do 0% to 15% during that time.
So if you guys want to be investing while saving up the down payment, invest 15%.

Speaker 1 Any extra money goes to the down payment savings.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I would call it a Christmas miracle. I'd be debt-free this evening.
I would take my emergency fund and pay off all my

Speaker 3 gun.

Speaker 2 In the emergency fund, about $5,000.

Speaker 3 Okay. So it's not enough to knock it out.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 1 you could be in the four-figure mark if you knock it down from $13,000 down to $9,000.

Speaker 2 Yeah, pretty much every time we have some extra money, we knock it down.

Speaker 1 It'd be debt-free by late January or February instead of March. And then you'd have that emergency fund saved up probably six months after that, if not less, with no expenses.

Speaker 1 Then we can begin saving up 15%. And then any money beyond that goes to down payment.
And then we'll see where we're at in two years.

Speaker 1 But investing 25 or 30% now, you're going to go, man, I really want a house. We have nothing down.
So we're going to do it anyways on a 30-year loan with 1% and do an FHA.

Speaker 1 This is the cycle that people get into when they want to shortcut it. And there's something beautiful about just relinquishing, going, I'm not the smartest guy in the room.

Speaker 1 I'm going to follow a proven plan that worked for millions of others. One thing in front of the other.
That's the way to do it. Thanks for the call, Zach.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 welcome back to the ramsey show i'm george campbell joined by dr john deloney the phone number to call is triple eight eight two five five two two five

Speaker 1 if you're looking for a shortcut to get better with money i wish i could tell you there was a magic trick you could do but here's the best shortcut i found is making it easy to do the right things with your money and that's why i love our every dollar budgeting app you punch in your income, you list out your expenses, you track your

Speaker 1 transactions against that. Both, you know, if you got a spouse, they can be signed into the same budgeting app.
And so you have accountability, you have clarity with where your money's going.

Speaker 1 And I'm telling you, no matter what your money goal is, whether it's paying off debt, saving up for whatever it is, the budget will be your best friend.

Speaker 1 So you can download Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play, or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. David is up next in Colorado Springs.

Speaker 1 What's going on, David?

Speaker 2 Hey, how are you guys doing?

Speaker 1 Doing great. How can John and I help?

Speaker 2 Okay. Well, I got onto the debt-free train a bit further down the track than most people.

Speaker 2 We are currently debt-free, except our mortgage. Awesome.
I'm hoping to retire in about six years.

Speaker 2 And my question is, I am currently investing 15% of my income into the 401k at work.

Speaker 2 And sometimes during the year, we'll have an extra $500, excuse me, an extra $1,000 that we can put towards something.

Speaker 2 And I was wondering, given that I'm in my 60s and I don't have the 20, 30 years for compound interest to work its full magic, should I be putting extra money towards our mortgage or should I be putting a little extra into my IRA to try to give that a little bit of a boost?

Speaker 1 How much do you have in your nest egg currently across your retirement accounts?

Speaker 2 About probably about $180,000, $190,000.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 And is there any other retirement income that you're planning on, a pension or anything like that?

Speaker 2 No, there's nothing.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 So history will tell us in the rule of 72 that every 7.2 years, your money would double at a 10% rate of return. And so that $190,000, let's call it $200,000, would double to $400,000 in seven years.

Speaker 1 So you'll have $400K in your nest egg. How much is left on your mortgage?

Speaker 2 About $130,000.

Speaker 1 So over those seven years, can we also make a plan to get the mortgage knocked out, which will reduce your expenses by whatever your mortgage payment is? What's your payment every month?

Speaker 2 I'm trying to remember. We just moved.
We just downsized. I think it's about $1,100 a month.
I'm paying like $2,000 a month on it.

Speaker 1 Oh, good. You're already paying extra, and you're saying there's extra money coming in.

Speaker 3 Yes. I love it.

Speaker 1 So here's what I would do if I was in your shoes. I would put any extra money beyond the 15% toward the mortgage.
And the answer is pretty simple.

Speaker 1 If you can reduce your expenses by $1,100 a month, you're going to be better off in retirement.

Speaker 1 You won't need as much in the nest egg to cover your expenses.

Speaker 2 Okay, yeah,

Speaker 2 that does make sense.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the true part is you're going to knock that mortgage out probably quicker, and that will allow you to then invest up to the max with your catch-up contributions, just max everything out that you can once the mortgage is paid off.

Speaker 1 And that might mean I got to work an extra year or two longer than I wanted to.

Speaker 2 Well, I'm already doing that, but yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, the thing is, retirement is not an age. It's a financial number.
So I wish I could just tell you, yeah, you should be good at 66.

Speaker 1 It might, you might need to go, I'm not quite there yet based on the life I want to live, or we have to make some serious sacrifices in our lifestyle in order to stay at this level in retirement.

Speaker 3 But David, I can tell you the conversation I had with my parents. I think people get the retirement number is really important, but I also think the retirement risk profile is important.

Speaker 3 And the conversation I had with my parents who were in their 70s was,

Speaker 3 I want y'all to be in a position where nobody can come take your house.

Speaker 3 And thinking about how much do we have in the nest egg? What about our bills? What about,

Speaker 3 I've got this one taken care of. Nobody can come take my bed from me.
You get what I'm saying?

Speaker 3 Yeah. And so I think.

Speaker 3 I really want you to

Speaker 3 have a nest egg in retirement, but man, I want you to have as little risk as possible. And if you don't have a house payment, they can't come take your house from you.

Speaker 3 Man, that just thinking about my own parents entering into their 70s, that just gives me a lot of peace. I know it gives them a lot of peace.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I hadn't really thought of that angle, and that actually makes a whole lot of sense. I mean, technically, I could pull money out of my 401k and pay off the house now.

Speaker 3 Oh, boy, don't you? Don't do that. Yeah, don't do that.
I'm not going to do that.

Speaker 3 Don't do that. I would love you to land, okay, cool.
Now we have no bills. We have no, not one person owns us, except we have to pay taxes.

Speaker 3 We have to pay our light bill and our water bill, and we'll have to put some gas in the car. Man, that just feels like a great place to start the fourth quarter of your life.

Speaker 1 Then you don't need 1.5 million in that nest egg. You might be able to make do.
But I would still crunch the numbers on this and go, all right, how much will we likely need?

Speaker 1 And is there going to be a gap? And what does that mean for our income? We might need to get our income up for the next seven years in order to hit this goal.

Speaker 1 So there are things you can control in this, and I love that you're taking charge, even though you're getting a later start than many. Way to go.
Jackson is up next in St. Petersburg, Florida.

Speaker 1 Jackson, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 How's it going, guys?

Speaker 3 Great, doing all right, man. What's up?

Speaker 2 Um, so I am 26 years old. I've been married for just about a year.
Um, we bought our first starter home in the end of February.

Speaker 2 Um, unfortunately, we took about four or four and a half feet of water during the hurricane.

Speaker 3 Lost

Speaker 2 pretty much everything we own.

Speaker 2 So, you know, we made five mortgage payments on this house, pretty much still owe, you know, the full mortgage amount.

Speaker 2 And now it's essentially worth nothing. And the insurance is giving us about half of what we've been quoted to put it back together.

Speaker 2 So trying to navigate, you know, my existing finances and all of this has been a challenge.

Speaker 3 Is your house a total loss?

Speaker 2 It's certainly unlivable, but it can be repaired. It's not a total loss.

Speaker 3 So, when you're getting, where did the insurance company get their numbers from?

Speaker 1 Did you not have enough coverage, or did they low-ball you for some reason?

Speaker 2 No, they seriously low-balled us. We have, you know, good flood insurance, homeowners' insurance.

Speaker 2 You know, we're kind of working through the appeal process right now.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think it's worth you.

Speaker 3 I think it's worth going to get an attorney to walk through it with you.

Speaker 3 What's the quote?

Speaker 2 We have already spoken with one,

Speaker 2 but you know, trying to prepare for the worst.

Speaker 1 So what's the quote? Like, what's the gap here?

Speaker 1 Hey, the quote's actually $100,000 and insurance is covering 50.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so insurance is giving us 60 and it's looking like it'll be about 135 to 140.

Speaker 3 Okay. Have you, you know, someone else that might get involved? Is your mortgage company?

Speaker 3 Yes. And let them know, hey, this is what they're coming in at.
And

Speaker 3 because a cornerstone of a bank lending you money is that an insurance company has said, we'll take care of it if something happens to your investment bank. Right.

Speaker 3 If this guy keeps paying us for his insurance, we're going to take care of your investment, Mr. Banker.
And they're saying, yeah, no, we're not.

Speaker 3 And that might be, that might be another call I would make.

Speaker 2 A lot of people in the neighborhood are, you know, selling for land value

Speaker 2 or pulling $300 cash out and lifting their home to above sea level.

Speaker 2 So that's kind of the other aspect of this is, you know, we spend all this money and put it back together, and then it could happen again next year.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, you live in Florida. I grew up in Houston.
That's always a thing, right? We know that living on the coast.

Speaker 3 Yeah. You hope it doesn't happen.

Speaker 3 And if you're in a flood-prone area, you're gonna pay more for insurance.

Speaker 1 But um, do you still have the insurance? Yeah, they didn't kick you off,

Speaker 2 no, they have not.

Speaker 1 Okay, good, and you're still living in this house.

Speaker 2 No, it is completely uninhabitable.

Speaker 3 So, where are you now? You know,

Speaker 3 um, renting, so you're paying rent plus still making mortgage payment and rent. Well, the insurance company should pay for you while you're displaced.

Speaker 2 That is not part of the policy

Speaker 2 or any flood policy.

Speaker 2 so our only option there is fema um we're on like our third appeal with them so

Speaker 2 obviously that's a very slow process what's your take-home pay

Speaker 2 uh about 102 000.

Speaker 1 and what is this uh mortgage plus rent add up to every month

Speaker 2 uh the mortgage is 3950

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 rent is about 950.

Speaker 1 Man, that's a lot of your take-home pay going to just try to cover this in the meantime. This could be a long journey.
That's a tough one.

Speaker 1 I'd talk to everyone, real estate agents, attorneys, the mortgage company, and just fight, fight, fight, man. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Speaker 1 That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

Speaker 1 Live from the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

Speaker 1 I'm Ramsey Personality George Campbell, joined by my colleague and friend, Dr. John Deloney, host of the Dr.
John Deloney Show. And we're taking your calls at 888-82-55225.

Speaker 1 If you've got a question about money, relationships, mental or emotional health, help us help you by calling in, and we'll do our best. Connor is in Anchorage, Alaska, to kick us off.

Speaker 1 What's going on, Connor?

Speaker 2 Hey, how's it going?

Speaker 1 Good, how are you?

Speaker 2 Good, good. Hey, I just wanted to kind of get your opinion on what I should do to kind of build wealth for my future.

Speaker 3 Awesome.

Speaker 1 Let's hear your situation.

Speaker 2 Okay, so I'm 18 years old. I own a landscaping company.
I bring in about

Speaker 2 70 grand during the summer and then 30 to 35 during the winter.

Speaker 2 My truck is completely paid off, and that's about $23,000.

Speaker 2 I have a $20,000 camping trailer that I rent out, and that is also paid off. I have a motorcycle that's paid off, and then a bunch,

Speaker 2 like I have more trailers and stuff like that, and everything's paid off.

Speaker 1 Goodness gracious.

Speaker 3 So you sound like an 18-year-old who suddenly started making six figures and bought every toy imaginable, just like I would have done. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Right?

Speaker 1 And you've done it all very wisely.

Speaker 3 So you don't owe any money to anybody?

Speaker 2 I don't owe any money, nothing.

Speaker 3 Okay, when you make me in Georgia promise, you'll never borrow money.

Speaker 2 I will never borrow money.

Speaker 3 Listen,

Speaker 3 you just took

Speaker 3 one leap for mankind towards you having an astronomical amount of wealth. You're a hustler, aren't you?

Speaker 2 I am, yeah.

Speaker 3 Okay, when hustling is going well, hustlers get loaded. And when things get dice, when the economy gets sideways, or people don't need your gear, or somebody's like, I thought you made a lot of money.

Speaker 3 Why are you driving that truck? And it hurts your precious little feelings. Hustlers get themselves in a mess.

Speaker 3 If you will stick to this principle and the principles George is going to walk you through, all of us will be working for you someday.

Speaker 2 Gotcha.

Speaker 3 Is that cool? That's cool. All right, good.

Speaker 1 Love it. Is this a solo gig or do you have a team?

Speaker 2 It's solo, but I do have a team for lawn care and stuff. And then I design the landscape projects.

Speaker 1 So you're taking home $100K a year?

Speaker 2 Yeah, just about that, give or take, depending on the year. It's gone up every year, though.

Speaker 1 Amazing.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 How much do you have in savings?

Speaker 2 I have about $20,000.

Speaker 1 We'll call that your emergency fund?

Speaker 2 Yeah, let's do that.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 So you're at the point where you're able to build wealth. You don't have any debt.

Speaker 1 You have an emergency fund that puts you in baby step four in the Ramsey plan where you begin investing 15% of your income into retirement plans.

Speaker 1 So for you, 100K a year, we're going to call that $15,000, should be being put away every single year into retirement. Now for you, you're self-employed.
You have options.

Speaker 1 you can always open a Roth IRA. Do you have one of those?

Speaker 2 I do, but I only have like, I only have a thousand bucks in it.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, it sounds like you just made it to this point where you're in a really good spot. You've got all the toys you need and you have the emergency fund.

Speaker 1 So I would begin doing what's called dollar cost averaging. So you take, you know, $7,000 is what you can contribute to a Roth IRA this year.

Speaker 1 And so come January, we're going to put in one month of that. And then February, one month of that.
And so by December, you've put in all $7,000.

Speaker 1 Gotcha. Okay.
That's what? $550, I got to check my math on that. $583.

Speaker 1 Okay. So you can put $583 every month in there.
It'll be maxed out by the end of the year. But remember, you should be investing $15,000.

Speaker 1 So you still need $8,000 more of retirement account, which means you might want to look into, depending on your situation, a SEP IRA or a Solo 401k.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Depending on how your business is set up. And I would be contacting a Smart Smart Vestor pro.
This is a person who can help you on your investing journey.

Speaker 1 If you jump on ramseysolutions.com and click on Smart Vestor, they can walk you through the best options for your situation, for how your business is set up to get the right retirement accounts coming for you.

Speaker 2 Gotcha. Okay.

Speaker 1 But man, you're crushing it. And if you, you know, as your income goes up, that 15% will also increase.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And then I'm guessing you have other goals.

Speaker 1 Do you want to be a homeowner?

Speaker 2 I do, yes.

Speaker 1 So beyond the 15%, let's say, you know, know, you hopefully you have money left over because you're doing such a great job budgeting and living on less than you make, that you could then also set up another high-yield savings account and just start shoveling any extra money into that account so that you'll look up and have 100 grand ready for a down payment in a few years.

Speaker 2 Gotcha. Okay, that's good to know.
Yeah, that would be nice. And then another question, how do I start? What's the best way that I can build credit? Because I still don't have a credit card yet.

Speaker 3 Don't ever.

Speaker 1 You're 18 and wealthier than most Americans. What makes you think you need a credit card?

Speaker 2 I was thinking like someday when I do want to buy a house.

Speaker 3 George and I have both bought houses with a credit score of zero.

Speaker 3 Really? Okay. Yeah,

Speaker 3 that's an old story our parents taught us, and it's a new story that floats around on the TikToks and the Instagrams. You want to get stupid, rich, just delete social media.

Speaker 3 Just delete social media and freeze your credit accounts.

Speaker 1 Never touch the stuff. Because guess what? You've already learned that you know how to manage your money instead of managing debt.
And credit scores are all about being good at managing debt.

Speaker 1 Think about something you need or interested in.

Speaker 3 Think about a credit score like this.

Speaker 3 Imagine you're dating, okay? And since you're 18 years old and you make six figures, you're going to be an eligible possession there in Anchorage.

Speaker 3 So all a credit score is, is somebody asking how you've treated your old girlfriends before they, they want to know everyone you've dated.

Speaker 2 Oh, guess, that makes sense.

Speaker 3 And if you ever go on a date and the first question, somebody says, hey, hold on, before I go out,

Speaker 3 I want to know the names and numbers of everyone you've ever dated. I'm going to call them and check up on you.
Just walk away. That's not going to be a good relationship for you.

Speaker 3 That's not going to be good.

Speaker 2 Gotcha. Okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 3 That's good to know then. Listen, I could give you $10 million in cash today and you could put it in your checking account and your credit score would not change.

Speaker 3 Credit score has nothing to do with how much wealth you have. It just has to do with how you've danced with debt in the past.
It doesn't matter. It's a scam.

Speaker 2 Oh, gosh.

Speaker 1 So here's the process. And I'll send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke.
And in the home ownership chapter, I walk people through the process of buying a house without a credit score.

Speaker 1 Actually, in the credit score chapter, if that makes sense where it goes. And so it's a process called manual underwriting.
You'll hear this as a no-score loan sometimes.

Speaker 1 And what they do, just like the olden days, before credit scores existed, they'll look at your actual financial picture.

Speaker 1 They'll go, okay, Connor has a very low debt-to-income ratio because he has no debt. He makes a great income.
We see his tax return and we're going to grant him this mortgage based on real factors.

Speaker 1 The automated underwriting is just just a computer saying, hey, he's got a great credit score. You can trust him to hopefully pay back this loan.
And so it's a very similar process.

Speaker 1 It's just a little bit more manual. It doesn't take much more time.
It's simple. You just need proof of, you know, are you paying rent every month on time?

Speaker 2 I am. I am, yes.

Speaker 1 Are you paying any utility bills or cell phone bills on time every month?

Speaker 3 Cell phone, yes. Insurance?

Speaker 3 Yep. Boom.

Speaker 1 Those are the types of things that would qualify you. And our friends at Churchill Mortgage have been specializing in these types of no-score loans for a long time.

Speaker 1 It's why they've been great partners for us. And John and I have both went through this process.
So we're here to tell you it's very much possible.

Speaker 3 And hey, you're going to learn a hard lesson. Can I go ahead and just ruin it for you, Connor?

Speaker 2 Go for it.

Speaker 3 If you've got for easy math, let's say you make $100,000 every year on the dot.

Speaker 3 $35,000 of that, you got to pull out for taxes. $15,000 of that you're going to put out to invest.
Now you're down to $50,000. And then you're going to have an emergency fund.

Speaker 3 And you're going to see why your dad's grumpy a lot because he makes a lot of money and there's nothing you don't get to spend it on anything other than planning for the future and giving to the government.

Speaker 3 So don't get antsy, don't buy crap you can't afford. Just keep plugging away, dude.
And I'm telling you what, I'm so proud of you, George, so proud of you. You're a hero.

Speaker 3 You're on the path, my brother. Congratulations.

Speaker 1 Closer, child. Hang on the line.
We'll send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. Hope it helps you build wealth a much more peaceful way.
This is The Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. The phone number to call is 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 John, listen, I was in the Ramsey Network app, as I tend to be in my free time.

Speaker 3 You kind of live there in your free time.

Speaker 1 I noticed there's a new spot up top, and it's got your face on it. And it's said United States of Anxiety.

Speaker 3 So they've moved the Dr. John Deloney show into the app, and along with the Ramsey show, and you can get the show a a week early.

Speaker 3 But one of the big questions that people have asked since I started on the show is, okay, you talk to people for eight minutes and you give them this idea or 20 minutes and you give them these things they need to do.

Speaker 3 Does this stuff actually work? And so this was kind of a bluff call. And so there's a couple of episodes of me sitting with somebody for 90 days.
We sit in person.

Speaker 3 And one person, I got on a plane and flew to Connecticut. I was like, I need to see her ASAP.

Speaker 3 But we walk through. People are struggling with various things, relationships and anxiety, whatever.

Speaker 3 and um it turned out to be a pretty amazing show and so this this latest episode is a is about this extraordinary woman named Kelsey um who man she does a lot of hard hard work during this thing and so it's a fun it's a fun fun episode but you can check out my show you can check out the Ramsey show you can check check out everything

Speaker 1 on Georgia's favorite place to hang out the Ramsey Network app it's totally free so go download it and a good reminder that the next hour of the show will be exclusive to the Ramsey Network app so we're putting a lot of cool things in there.

Speaker 1 On top of new shows, the third hour of the Ramsey show is also in there. So go check it out.
Go to your app store and search for Ramsey Network and get it today.

Speaker 1 All right, Rachel's up next in Wichita. What's going on, Rachel?

Speaker 2 Hi, guys.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I basically just lack boundaries and the ability to keep my boundaries. And that's gotten my marriage to a place where my husband's a bit spoiled and I can't get him unspoiled.

Speaker 3 So, we

Speaker 1 I love the self-awareness and honesty here.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's like I can't drive, and my car is in a ditch. All right, so what uh, what do you struggle with boundaries? What kind of boundaries do you struggle with?

Speaker 2 Um, I would say probably the most major thing is I am a huge people pleaser,

Speaker 2 and I don't like to, I guess,

Speaker 2 annoy people or bother them. So, instead of doing that, I kind of just take everything on myself.

Speaker 3 Who told you?

Speaker 3 Hold on. Who told you?

Speaker 3 Either explicitly or implicitly?

Speaker 3 Who told you that you're a burden?

Speaker 3 Somewhere along the way, you picked up the message that the world would be better if you just

Speaker 3 stayed in the shadows. Who told you that?

Speaker 2 I would say it would partly be

Speaker 2 maybe like a lack of self-confidence mixed with bad previous abusive relationships.

Speaker 3 Okay. But that lack of self-confidence comes from someone, something.

Speaker 3 You don't just wake up with a lack of self-confidence. That's something that's earned over time.

Speaker 2 That's true. And I guess I couldn't necessarily pinpoint, I don't recall ever not being like this.

Speaker 3 Did you grow up in a house where an adult said, hey, if you do that, your dad's going to get really, or hey, you know, mom gets mad if you...

Speaker 3 Is that the house you grew up in?

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 2 my household, it was kind of, I guess, maybe easy for my parents. Like my mom handled me and my dad handled my brother.
It's just us two.

Speaker 2 So I didn't really get any maybe discipline from my dad.

Speaker 3 So I just, what did you get from you guys?

Speaker 2 I guess that's maybe kind of, okay, so now I am thinking about it a little harder.

Speaker 2 My parents have always kind of denied it, but I've always, and other family members and things like that, have always kind of felt like my brother was

Speaker 2 maybe favored a little bit more. At least that's always been my thoughts on it.
So I felt like he was getting things that I was being told I couldn't have and things like that.

Speaker 2 So I guess maybe that could be where it stemmed from is like, why is he getting it and I'm not?

Speaker 3 Well, but take a step deeper. That's a way to intellectualize it.
But imagine yourself as a seven-year-old little girl

Speaker 3 when you're just basically a walking nervous system.

Speaker 3 And you aren't asking yourself, why is he getting what I'm not? Like you can ask that question, but the underneath it is, what's wrong with me?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Why doesn't dad like me too?

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I don't think it's that he didn't like me. I think it was maybe just easier.

Speaker 3 I know, I know.

Speaker 3 Seven-year-olds don't tell the truth. I mean, they're not factual creatures, but they're just full feeling creatures.

Speaker 3 And so all I have to say is, here's where that's important right now.

Speaker 3 Nothing I tell you, nothing George tells you is going to matter if you don't think you're worth even the conversation.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 If you think you're a burden to tell your husband, I'm not doing this, or we don't have the money for, or I need your help around here with the kids.

Speaker 3 If you don't think you're worth that conversation, or somehow his time time or his precious little feelings are more important, more valuable than yours, then it doesn't matter what tips or hacks we give you.

Speaker 1 Every time someone steps over that boundary line, the story you're telling yourself is, well, of course, I'm not worth someone respecting a boundary. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I shouldn't have put that boundary up.

Speaker 1 That's on me. You've taken this on yourself.

Speaker 3 So tell me something. You say your husband's spoiled.
How's he spoiled?

Speaker 2 It's mostly just the chores around the house, I get. We don't actually have kids, but so we both work full-time.
So I feel like chores should be split pretty evenly.

Speaker 3 Correct.

Speaker 3 You're correct.

Speaker 2 At the beginning of our relationship, I would say they were.

Speaker 2 He fell into a depression with his last job.

Speaker 2 And that, I think, is where the bulk of it came from is I was obviously there for him through that.

Speaker 2 We've gone through that. but during that time, I just ended up taking over everything

Speaker 2 and it's never gotten back to the 50-50.

Speaker 3 Well, I think 50-50, if you try to keep score, that's a recipe for you crashing and burning. I wouldn't do that.
But I would seek equity. I would seek,

Speaker 3 we pull equal weight around here. And what 50-50 means is you do the dishes, I do this.
You do this, I do this. And then somebody gets the flu and dishes pile up.

Speaker 3 Or somebody has a really wild, like my wife has a editorial deadline for her book I don't do the dishes I do my half she does her like that's that that destroys relationships but if there is a sense of

Speaker 3 we whoever walks by the dishes picks up the dishes both of us help with kids bedtimes both of us help with laundry and it does help sometimes to divvy up like hey I'll take care of the laundry I need you to push my wife hits send on all of our bills right like we talk about our budget and stuff but she hits she's the one who actually writes the the check or hits send on whatever internet-y thing they have.

Speaker 3 I don't know how those things get paid, but

Speaker 3 you see, but it starts with a conversation and it starts with the deeper layer here is we do this together.

Speaker 3 And so here's a beautiful moment. You've got, you're, you're coming up on a new year.
This is a great time to do it.

Speaker 3 I would love to see you take him out to breakfast and say, hey, the last year was hard and I'm proud of you for the steps you've made.

Speaker 3 I want us to have the conversation about what kind of marriage we're going to have this year. And I want to talk about what you need and what you want.

Speaker 3 I'm going to talk about what I need and what I want. And then we're going to talk about how we can love each other in this new, in 2025.
We get to build a new marriage this year.

Speaker 2 Yes, I love that.

Speaker 3 And if you come at him and say, you haven't been doing your stuff, the moment you say the word you, his body's going to, you start to fight.

Speaker 3 He's got to defend himself.

Speaker 3 But if you sit down and say, I've been taking on the lion's share of the stuff while you got well, and I'm so grateful that I was able to help you and walk alongside you in this way, way that's great i want to back off on doing everything around the house and i want us to begin all right so you're using the word i which is an invitation word and um man you get to decide you get to lay it out there i would suggest that you come with a picture in your mind that you can tell him pretty clearly because usually these conversations with the people pleasers start with, I just want you to pick up some more slack.

Speaker 3 And you have a picture in your head of what more slack is. and he gets a picture in his head of what more slack is and those pictures do not match

Speaker 3 so let's just be this let's be specific let's be very specific and

Speaker 3 find a moment where you can be grateful for the things that he does do and these conversations always help with a spirit of gratitude a spirit of curiosity not judging not i can't believe it it's just about invitation and then if he says i'm not doing any of that stuff now you have to deal with the actual gaps in your marriage right hopefully he hears you and says I'm all in.

Speaker 3 I can't wait to build something new in 2025. Thanks for the call.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. The number to call is 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 We'd be happy to help you take the right next step for your life, your money, your relationships, whatever you got going on. Noah is up next in Jackson, Mississippi.
Noah, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much, gentlemen. How are we?

Speaker 1 We're doing great. How can we help today?

Speaker 2 Okay, so I guess long story short,

Speaker 2 so I'm about three months out from turning 30, and

Speaker 2 I'm having some kind of crisis, realizing that I

Speaker 2 have essentially been in survival mode, it feels like, for the last 13 years of my...

Speaker 2 My wife and I have been together 13 years, and we have three children together. And so I've come to notice that I have nothing saved.
I'm constantly overdrafting. And

Speaker 2 I don't have a 401k because my work doesn't offer it. My wife is self-employed, so we don't have anything like that.
I just, I feel like I need

Speaker 2 help. Like, I'm trying to

Speaker 2 take in as much info as I can,

Speaker 2 you know, and do it that way. But I'm like, I just need.
someone to talk to me about what I need.

Speaker 3 Tell me if I'm out to lunch, man. And dude, I want to honor you in this moment.
Like, this isn't an easy phone call for you to make, is it?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 I want to tell you, like, if you were here, I wouldn't say anything to you. I'd just give you a hug for a second, okay? I know this call is hard.
You got three kids. You're a good dad.

Speaker 3 You're a good husband. And you also have that nagging feeling that you've probably had for 13 years.
Like,

Speaker 3 I don't know what I'm doing. Is that fair?

Speaker 3 Yes. Yeah, it is.

Speaker 2 We were young parents. We were 16 and 17.
And

Speaker 2 I just all of a sudden it's like life has come together. I've got a job that I adore, and my wife, like I said, she's running her own business that she adores.

Speaker 2 And it's like, okay, we've made it, but what do we do now?

Speaker 3 How much money do y'all make a year? What's your annual salary?

Speaker 2 So I

Speaker 2 brought home a little over $115,000 this year.

Speaker 3 Okay. What about your wife?

Speaker 2 My wife, right now, we pay ourselves $600 a a month from her business account.

Speaker 3 So is it a glorified hobby?

Speaker 3 And I'm not asking that in a mean way.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 she does her own accounting firm. We built a little office in our backyard, and she

Speaker 2 deals with

Speaker 2 agricultural accounting.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 But I mean, she makes $6,000 a year?

Speaker 2 That's what we bring home, yes. And then we leave money, obviously, in the business, and it pays all of its own bills and all that.

Speaker 1 Is she also at home taking care of the kids? And this is just like a few hours a week kind of thing, or what?

Speaker 2 I mean, she my kids are all in school full-time and

Speaker 2 or I mean, you know, as much as kids are.

Speaker 2 But so, yes, she is home full-time. The thing about my job, I work as a paramedic, and the only way I was able to find money like that is

Speaker 2 I have a travel contract. So I go up to Chicago for two weeks every month, and I work in Chicago for two weeks, and I come home for two weeks.

Speaker 3 So the quickest thing, the quickest way to get out of survival mode is

Speaker 3 you have to have a, you've been running, think of it this way, you've been running for, um,

Speaker 3 or you're a paramedic, so I've run the streets with you guys a little bit. Um,

Speaker 3 you know how annoying it is when a colleague from another department shows up and is just yelling, kind of running around like crazy without a direction, without a set of orders, right?

Speaker 3 That's been your life.

Speaker 3 And so the thing you have to have more than anything else is A, a direction and a goal where you and your wife actually want to end up.

Speaker 3 And then you got to have a plan to get there, but you don't have that. You've just been doing the next right thing for 13 years.
And now you're almost 30 years old.

Speaker 3 You got three kids and you're like, oh, gosh, we don't have anything.

Speaker 3 Right, right.

Speaker 1 The part that's concerning is you've been making more and more every year with nothing to show for it, which tells me every single extra penny you earn is getting also spent.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 1 I don't think it's all like, it's for the kids.

Speaker 1 Like, there's probably some spending we've been doing out of just survival mode to kind of, you know, have some retail therapy or just go, I just deserve X, Y, Z. So where is that spending happening?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 Where would you say, like, man, I'm really, this is where the money's going? If you told me straight up, beyond the bills, this is where it's going.

Speaker 1 Um, oh, gosh.

Speaker 2 Truly, like I said, when

Speaker 2 my wife has some anxiety, so when I'm home, oh, when I'm sorry, when I'm gone, she does not do necessarily a whole lot with

Speaker 2 getting out of the house. So, when I am home, we are taking the kids to movies and taking them shopping.
And, you know,

Speaker 2 I know that

Speaker 2 I have this desire to seek this approval, I think, of

Speaker 2 everyone in my household as like, hey, it's okay that you're gone because, you know,

Speaker 3 I don't know. I'm trying to justify it.

Speaker 1 When dad's gone, and when dad's home, he buys our love and life is okay.

Speaker 3 Right. And so,

Speaker 3 again, going back to

Speaker 3 this is the magic question that transformed my marriage. Actually, didn't transform it.
It kept it from falling completely apart.

Speaker 3 When my wife asked me, what do you want this house to feel like when you walk in the door?

Speaker 3 And that led me to go to counseling because I was such an anxious mess and I had to deal with that. That led to us getting our money squared up because I was tired of being anxious about it.

Speaker 3 My wife had to go do her own work. And so, like, your wife just deciding I'm so anxious now, I just don't do anything for two weeks out of every month, um, or whatever, 26 weeks out of every year.

Speaker 3 That's insane. That's madness.
She needs to go talk to somebody and head straight into that anxiety. Right.
And you, you're making good money.

Speaker 3 And probably you told yourself since you were 16 years old, if I could make six figures, all my problems would go away. Yeah.
But you're missing half your life. Right.
And so maybe 85

Speaker 3 is a better number for you where I can be with my family.

Speaker 3 Right. Or she's working, y'all built a whole thing.
Hopefully you didn't take out a whole bunch of loan on it to, or take an equity line of credit to build the thing in the backyard.

Speaker 3 But dude, she could work at Starbucks for six hours a week and make $6,000 a year.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 3 You know what I mean? And so it's just a matter of asking, where do we want to actually go? What do we want this house to feel like?

Speaker 2 Right. Right.

Speaker 3 And you have felt less than for a long, long time. And I almost want to tell you, dude,

Speaker 3 the odds you get in somebody pregnant at 16, that A, you stuck around, that B, y'all stuck this out, that C, y'all aren't in abject poverty. Like,

Speaker 3 you have beaten every statistic against you. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 Hold on, I've got to get this figured out.

Speaker 3 I'm proud. No, no, hold on.
Before you do that, I want you to exhale and say, I've done some good.

Speaker 3 Right. Okay? You've done some good.
Now, tell me, you're 35 years old. What do you want your house to feel like?

Speaker 3 I mean, by the time,

Speaker 2 I don't know. I want my kids.

Speaker 3 No, no, no, no.

Speaker 3 No, no, no, no. You've been thinking about everybody else for 13 years.
What do you want your house to feel like when you're 35 years old and you walk in the day after your birthday?

Speaker 3 What do you want the house to feel like?

Speaker 2 I just want it to feel safe, like, in the sense that

Speaker 2 I don't know that that if if something bad were to happen tomorrow that we're okay or that that that's your survival mode talking that's your scarcity world that's the childhood you grew up in yeah

Speaker 3 let's flip it around what do you want your house to feel like in my house you know what I want I want it to be filled with laughter yeah I want my wife to be happy that I'm home which means I have to exercise I got to go deal with my mental and emotional health that means I got to help around the house I mean I got to be an active participant in my house I want my kids happy that that I'm there, right?

Speaker 3 Not just because I buy them crap, but because they like me.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And they know that I'm a safe person, right? So, like, I think that's the exercise.

Speaker 3 And I want you and your wife to get away at the turn of the year here and ask yourself, what do we want this house to feel like? And then hang on the line.

Speaker 3 I'm going to send you, um, George and I will send you Financial Peace University. We'll send you the Every Dollar Budget.

Speaker 3 I'm going to send you a copy of George's book, Breaking Free from Broke, that will walk you through step by step. I'll send you you uh um

Speaker 3 uh dave ramsey's bestseller um

Speaker 3 uh gosh i just lost the title total money makeover good caught on money there it is the book that built this building james is laughing in there total money makeover the og book right uh i'll send you everything because i want to support you guys and walk with you But you guys have to get away and say, okay, what do I want this house to feel like?

Speaker 3 And then you'll have to head into these things that you've been scared about. I don't know anything about money.
We got you. I'm worried about your anxiety.
We're going to go see a counselor.

Speaker 3 I'm worried about the kid number two. We're going to go meet with the teachers.
We're going to go go head into these problems in 2025. No more avoiding.
We're done avoiding. I'm proud of you.

Speaker 3 We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr.
John Deloney. As a listener of the Ramsey Show, many of you are wondering, am I on track? financially?

Speaker 1 Am I on track to hit these baby steps to reach my financial goals? Well, our team team created a really quick, easy, fun quiz to check your progress.

Speaker 1 And on the other side, you'll get a personalized plan built just for you. So if you want to check it out, go to the show notes and click on the link titled, Are You On Track with the Baby Steps?

Speaker 1 and complete the free quiz. And if you didn't know, the Ramsey Network app is the only place to get full episodes of the Ramsey show.
You can download it for free.

Speaker 1 We get the link in the show notes again, or just search Ramsey Network app in the App Store.

Speaker 1 And this will be the last segment of this show where you're listening right now if you're on youtube or podcast if you're on radio stay tuned the show will continue everyone else you don't want to miss more calls so go get the ramsey network app and finish the show like a decent human being john be a good american be a good good job george thank you robert is up next in houston texas what's going on robert you're already uh dr john's already a fan of you

Speaker 2 Oh, fantastic. Yeah.
How are you all doing today, gentlemen?

Speaker 3 We're doing good. Well, they traded Tucker, so I'm still kind of bummed about it, but

Speaker 3 we're moving on. So what's up, dude?

Speaker 2 Well, we try to be really wise with our income, and I'm afraid we may have made ourselves artificially house poor.

Speaker 1 Tell me more. Artificially.

Speaker 3 You used some great big words in that sentence. That was fantastic.
Oh, yeah, trucks.

Speaker 2 So almost two years ago, we took out a construction loan and built our forever home. out on the family property next to my folks.
We did get the land. We didn't build our home on someone else's land.

Speaker 2 So that was smart, I think.

Speaker 2 The issue is we kind of painted ourselves in a corner when we did it because we did it in an adjustable rate mortgage.

Speaker 2 And now it's forcing us to in a situation where we're kind of having to snowball pay off the mortgage before the adjustment hits.

Speaker 2 So I'd appreciate your perspective on whether it'd be a better choice to continue power paying this mortgage or maybe loosen the belt a little, live our lives and plan to refinance before the adjustment happens.

Speaker 1 When is the adjustment happening?

Speaker 2 December of 33 is a 10-5 ARM at 5.375.

Speaker 2 Okay. And we built it in March of 2020.
So it was like the worst time in modern history to both retire from the military and build a home.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 And you're thinking, hey, do we just try to snowball this or refinance later on? When would you be refinancing?

Speaker 3 In 33.

Speaker 2 Before the 10 years is up is what I'm thinking. Because we're able to make that payment and stuff right now.

Speaker 2 So we built it for $675,000, but we only financed $5.49 because we tried to pay as much cash as we could for different parts. The builder worked with us really well.

Speaker 3 What's your household income?

Speaker 2 So my military retirement is $35,000 and then I have a VA disability of $45,000. That part's tax-free.

Speaker 2 And I do have a phenomenal job where I'm making $190,000.

Speaker 3 Amazing.

Speaker 1 So what's your monthly mortgage payment right now and what's the monthly take-home pay?

Speaker 2 $3,100 is the mortgage and we're taking home about $9,000 a month

Speaker 2 because I have

Speaker 2 some payroll deduction for the Roth 401k. I'm at 9%.
The company matches 6% and they also have an ESOP

Speaker 2 of an additional 5% on top of that. And then we're real generous.
So I got about 18% of my income going out

Speaker 2 of our take-home to tides and just being generous.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, if it puts your family in financial jeopardy at some point, you may want to dial that back so you can take care of your own house first. But I mean, nothing is on fire here.

Speaker 1 I don't see a world where, I mean, if you refinanced, what would the big deal be at this point? You'd get a slightly higher interest rate?

Speaker 2 Right now, it'd be a lot higher plus all the closing costs. I mean, I wouldn't make a brokerage.

Speaker 2 We're on track to pay it off in November of 32, but that's right now I'm making the $3,100 payment and we're paying an additional $3,500 every month.

Speaker 3 How much do you owe on it?

Speaker 2 $466.

Speaker 1 So you're saying, hey, we can pay this thing off before it adjusts.

Speaker 3 Right. I think it's a great goal to have.

Speaker 2 Because we snowballed our debt,

Speaker 2 I've got both of our vehicles. I think the youngest one is 16 and the

Speaker 2 lowest miles is like 230,000.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but you're future casting problems. What if you just simply said, I'm going to take my two VA checks for five years, and that's going to go straight to the house? That's $450,000, right?

Speaker 3 Wow. Yeah.
It's $80,000 times five. It's $450,000.
So the house is covered. Now you and your family have to struggle and scratch and claw to live off $190,000 with no house payment.

Speaker 3 I don't know know how y'all will make it, but surely y'all can figure that out.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 2 I didn't look at it that way.

Speaker 3 You see what I'm saying? Like you just cleared your, you cleared every one of your problems. You have a guaranteed income that will vest your house before, and vest is the wrong word.

Speaker 3 It's just the word I'm using. It will clear your house before the arm resets.

Speaker 3 You're done. It's guaranteed money.
It's not going to go away. Your salary will probably fluctuate.
You're 190. Hopefully it keeps going up, but you can't predict five, 10 years from now.

Speaker 3 But good God Almighty, dude, that puts you in the tip, tip, tip, top of earners in America to take care of your family.

Speaker 3 You're not, you're not ever, you're going to have a huge house, a nice place, and a great salary, and you're not going to have new Tahos, and that's frustrating.

Speaker 1 That's annoying. So, you're going to have to keep your lifestyle in check, keep living on less than you make, and maybe even downgrade a little bit from what you guys are doing.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you're going to get Camrys.

Speaker 3 And retired military guys aren't supposed to drive Camrys. We all know that, but you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 We're still driving junkers right now.

Speaker 2 I just, I'm figuring one of them is going to blow up here pretty soon.

Speaker 3 Well, it will.

Speaker 1 Let's not be surprised. We'll solve that when it gets there.
Let's start a sinking fund. And part of that is we're going to put $2,000 a month right now into the savings account every month.

Speaker 1 We're going to have 24 grand in a year so that when the car blows up, we got 20 grand to go buy something used and reasonable.

Speaker 3 So I feel like you're trying to go all in on one thing.

Speaker 1 You're in this spot in baby steps four through six where we got to balance a bunch of things. And that's where the sinking funds are beautiful because you just stack the money away every month.

Speaker 1 You're intentional about it. Nothing's ever a surprise.
Whatever's left, we can throw at the mortgage. And you're also, you said you're only investing 9%.

Speaker 1 And the babysit four, the 15% is your income, regardless of the match.

Speaker 2 See, I was,

Speaker 2 should I still do the full 15%?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I have. You need to give 10% to your local church and you need to give a little bit to here and there.

Speaker 3 And right now, you need to make sure that nobody's going to have to give to take care of you in 30 years.

Speaker 3 Gotcha. You get what I'm saying? You're a good, good man.

Speaker 1 If you complain that you've amassed too much wealth because of the extra 6% invested, you can call and yell at John and I.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'll take that call.

Speaker 1 You can Venmo us the difference that you want to unload.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 3 But I mean, I think, yes, tithe your 10% to your local church and be generous where you can and help out. And

Speaker 3 what did you do in the military, brother?

Speaker 2 Electronics.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 Domestic or overseas? Or both?

Speaker 2 Oh, both.

Speaker 3 Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I was going, I don't know, six years out of 22.

Speaker 3 Do you, um,

Speaker 3 tell me if I'm wrong, dude, but I feel like I hear it on you. Do you have that sense of why me?

Speaker 2 Sense of what?

Speaker 3 That sense of why me? Why am I the one who's... Got a good house and my parents are still together and we're living by them and I got a good marriage and my kids are healthy and I make great money.

Speaker 3 Why me?

Speaker 2 You know, I used to, but it's because it's been a marriage of three. God has been in our relationship since we got married back when we were 19.

Speaker 3 Awesome.

Speaker 2 We just hit 28 years.

Speaker 3 Congratulations, dude. Way to go.

Speaker 3 I want you to hold your head up high.

Speaker 3 You're in a good spot, and you've got to where you are because you're good at future casting. You're good at predicting what comes next and kind of solving that problem.

Speaker 2 You give me entirely too much credit. Well, I was really good at picking up the pieces after I made a bunch of of mistakes.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but you learned this magic thing.

Speaker 3 You learned this magic thing called intuition, which people think is some kind of voodoo. Intuition is just, I screwed it up a bunch and I see it coming in, right?

Speaker 1 And you work hard and you're good at what you do. Yeah, people are.
People don't pay people 200 grand when they suck.

Speaker 3 There's a fine line. Yeah, exactly.
You're clearly good at what you do, but there's a fine line between future casting and anxiety and worrying.

Speaker 3 So, like, uh, like spoiler alert, yes, your cars are going to crap out. They are.
So, just start planning now. Spoiler alert: you got $80,000 guaranteed tax-free income coming every year.

Speaker 3 And as a taxpayer, I'm honored to get to pay it for the work that for the parts of your life you gave up to protect my family. Dude, I'm all in on that.
Pay your house off with it. Call it good.

Speaker 3 Worry about other things later.

Speaker 1 That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Go check out the Ramsey Network app to get even more calls coming up.

Speaker 3 What up, what up? It's Dr. John Deloney from the Dr.
John Deloney Show with some amazing news.

Speaker 3 The latest episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey Network app.

Speaker 3 This docuseries follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90-day journey to transform their lives, and I personally walk alongside them every step of the way.

Speaker 3 Okay, now here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about. And don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app.

Speaker 3 What's up, Kelsey?

Speaker 2 So I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember. How do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life?

Speaker 3 What does crippling anxiety mean? Paint me a picture of that.

Speaker 3 All right, so you ready to jump in?

Speaker 2 I'm ready to jump in. We're going to check in with Kelsey 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.
I cannot even function because I'm just crying.

Speaker 2 My mom left us when I was four. I truly felt like for a while I had no family.

Speaker 3 She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago. Tell me about this boy.

Speaker 2 He triggers me a lot. Scared of losing Paul, scared of doing the wrong thing, scared of not being enough.

Speaker 3 It just feels like it would be exhausting to be Kelsey. It is.
Whenever somebody's playing whack-a-mole with their anxiety, when it just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying system's not okay.

Speaker 2 How do I get my inner child out of this relationship? Because I feel like she's running the show.

Speaker 3 One of two people that's supposed to never leave took off. I was this.

Speaker 3 I was this burden.

Speaker 2 You burden, that's right.

Speaker 3 To the one person

Speaker 3 who should carry it. All of it.
Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault?

Speaker 2 I don't know what to do.

Speaker 3 You either have to choose to let this guy love you, or you got to choose to let this guy go.