You Can’t Win With Money if You Keep Ignoring the Real Problem

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 We help people

Speaker 1 build wealth,

Speaker 1 do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr.
John Deloney, PhD in counseling,

Speaker 1 Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author. He's my co-host today.
Open phones at 888-825-5225. Stacey's in Cape Town, South Africa.
Hi, Stacey. What's up?

Speaker 2 Hi, how are you guys?

Speaker 1 Better than we deserve. Wonderful food scene there.
Y'all got some nice restaurants, kiddo.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 2 Are you guys hanging in tight for my story?

Speaker 1 We're ready. Bring it.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So my question is, how do my husband and I navigate the very strange relationship we now have with his family after multiple instances of disloyalty and dishonesty.

Speaker 2 So my father-in-law needs to repay a loan of $100,000 to us and hasn't done it yet. It's been two years now.
And four months ago, the in-laws and my husband wanted to start a new business.

Speaker 2 They actually own a family business. And that was around the time when we moved into our new home.

Speaker 2 They saw the house and A couple of days later asked my husband to put our house up as their loan guarantee for their new business, as it was worth around $2 million.

Speaker 2 And oh, my husband wouldn't be the business owner, but just an employee.

Speaker 2 So, since then, the relationship has been a very important thing.

Speaker 1 I assume your husband said no.

Speaker 2 My husband went,

Speaker 2 he was so angry, he said, not only no, but now pay us back our $100,000 straight away. And now he's just keep distancing himself

Speaker 2 from them, which I totally understand. But how do we navigate this situation? How do we get the $100,000 back?

Speaker 2 I have no idea. Wow.

Speaker 1 When the

Speaker 1 is there any documentation or legal contracts on the $100,000 or was this a handshake?

Speaker 2 Oh, no, when we did the bank transfer,

Speaker 2 it literally shows up as loan to XYZ on the $100.

Speaker 1 That doesn't matter. I mean, they didn't sign a note.
They didn't sign a contract with you to repay.

Speaker 2 No, it was just verbal.

Speaker 1 So it was a handshake and you wired them the money.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 And was there any

Speaker 1 discussion at the time as to what the repayment terms would be?

Speaker 2 Yes, at the time they said that as soon as they sell their house, because they had a secondary house that they didn't use, as soon as they sell their house, they're going to pay us back.

Speaker 1 And then they did sell their house.

Speaker 1 Then they did sell their house.

Speaker 2 No, no, they didn't. But they've had multiple offers.
They just keep turning them down. Okay.
Offers that match their asking price.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow. You got yourself in a pickle, didn't you?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 I know. And now my husband is feeling a bit guilty, and he keeps asking me if he's a good person because he's told his dad now to repay everything back.
And

Speaker 1 yes, he's a good person. His dad is not.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, the mom's getting involved in telling everybody that we are money-minded and we are keeping our kids.

Speaker 1 I don't care what they told you.

Speaker 1 What they tell people. What they tell people doesn't matter.
They don't really get a vote because they're the people that don't pay bills and propose absurd business things.

Speaker 1 They don't get a vote anymore. They lost their vote.

Speaker 1 What they tell people or what they think is irrelevant. Agreed?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Other than it hurts your husband's feelings, but I mean, that his dad's being a twerp to him. But yeah.

Speaker 1 John?

Speaker 3 Are y'all of means, Stacey? You live in a $2 million house. I'm assuming y'all have money.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 3 This is easy for me to say on this side of

Speaker 3 the ocean, but you're probably not going to get that money back.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 just your husband making laps around the living room every night, existentially wondering if he's a good person. Is he costing his relationship with his dad? Is yada yada?

Speaker 1 I don't know. Yes.

Speaker 2 That's exactly what's happening.

Speaker 3 I can imagine there.

Speaker 3 Here's the deal.

Speaker 3 Your father-in-law needs to pay back the money. He's probably not going to.

Speaker 3 He probably can't. And y'all now,

Speaker 3 Dave and I have been talking about this forever. Dave's for three decades before I even showed up.

Speaker 3 When you loan a family member money, you change the nature of your relationship together now you are invested in them accepting an offer on their house

Speaker 3 right that that's an that's an inter that's a transaction that should be between them and their any potential seller and what they want to do and what they want to keep two houses or not but now you're invested in it and you are now judging from afar their interactions but it's because y'all loaned them money yeah right so now there's there's it's the whole thing's a mess i can see a world where your husband sits down with his his dad and says, Dad, I got mad.

Speaker 3 I blew my top.

Speaker 3 What's reasonable for repayment? And there's also a thing where he says,

Speaker 3 dude, this is a gift. I'm writing it off.
I'm moving on with my life.

Speaker 1 What's yours net worth?

Speaker 2 I think about $11 million. Okay.

Speaker 1 So.

Speaker 1 One possibility is

Speaker 1 take a deep breath, call dad and say, Dad, I shouldn't have loaned you this money without any documentation. I made a huge mistake.
It's costing us our relationship.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to do any business with you because I can't really trust you on transactions, but

Speaker 1 we still do want to have dinner with you. We still want to interact with you.

Speaker 1 And we're going to forgive this loan. Forget it.
Don't worry about it. Your life won't change one instant if you do that, except you'll be free.

Speaker 1 Right now, you guys are burning $10 million worth of calories over $100,000.

Speaker 1 True.

Speaker 1 You could let it go for your sake.

Speaker 1 You could. That's one possibility.
The second possibility is almost do that, but just let it go, but don't say anything. And just forget it, walk away.

Speaker 1 And then if they do pay you, let that be just like a pleasant surprise. But don't even have a conversation with them about it.
Just forget it and just walk away.

Speaker 1 But you guys are, it's destroying y'all. It's, you know, they're sitting over there smiling.
You're sitting over here freaked out.

Speaker 1 But again, and if I'm in your shoes, I'm also going to own my part of this. And the only part of this I really would call you two out on is

Speaker 1 you should never have done this transaction. And if you were going to do the transaction, you should have had a lot more business-minded about it.
Handshake on a hundred grand is is ridiculous.

Speaker 1 And so you ask for it. So when I do something stupid and it costs me money, I call it stupid tax.
So I think you paid a hundred grand in stupid tax.

Speaker 1 It's just a matter of when and when you want to pay it, whether you want to tell them today or whether you want to just forget it and say, I'm going to pretend like this never happened.

Speaker 1 I'm not even going to bring it up in my mind again. We're not going to bring it up in our marriage again.

Speaker 1 We're not going to ever do business with these people in any scenario, but we can be kind to them.

Speaker 1 They're blood family.

Speaker 3 I like option one. I like the,

Speaker 3 there's something about owning it and calling dad and mom and saying, I shouldn't have done this. I did it.
And y'all are free from it. And we'll be over for dinner on Sunday.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I can move on with my life. And for you regular people, it would be like if you loaned them a hundred bucks.

Speaker 3 Or a thousand bucks, right, right, right.

Speaker 1 Or a thousand bucks.

Speaker 1 You people that don't have $11 million. So just kind of,

Speaker 1 it's all about ratios here, okay? So

Speaker 3 it's for some people. Don't loan family members money.
Give it to them or say no, thank you.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Period.
No exceptions. That's the rule.

Speaker 3 Give it to them.

Speaker 1 Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personalities, my co-host today.
Brenda's in Las Vegas. Hi, Brenda.
Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Hello.

Speaker 1 Hi, what's up?

Speaker 2 My husband and I are, well, my parents are moving from their home in Florida. They're going to be selling their home there and moving to where we live, which is in Las Vegas.

Speaker 2 And that is a big difference economically. It's a much more expensive city to live in than where they are rurally.

Speaker 2 Talking with my parents,

Speaker 2 they just want to make a wise decision on what they need to do with moving here. So we've been talking through, would it be better for them to rent a house at their age? They're 80 and 78.

Speaker 2 Would it be better for them to purchase a home in this economy? And my husband and I have also talked about the possibility of us purchasing a home and then just renting it to my parents. No.

Speaker 2 But we want to make a wise choice. And so we just, I thought, I will just call you and see what you think.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'll pass on the rent to my parents option.

Speaker 1 So they're going to sell their property there and it's worth what?

Speaker 2 Probably a good half a million.

Speaker 1 And they can't buy anything in Las Vegas for half a million. Come on.

Speaker 2 They can, but I don't think it's it's not whether they can afford it or not. They know they can afford it.

Speaker 2 I think they just want to make sure that long term at their age, would that be still a good choice? I figured.

Speaker 1 I would buy a nice condo that I didn't have to do any maintenance on

Speaker 1 in an area that demographically, you know, I'm not moving into a neighborhood with a bunch of 20-year-olds if I'm 80.

Speaker 2 No, there's a 55-plus community near us.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 And those properties, when these two pass away someday, you can market that property without any trouble. You're not going to be stuck in it.
It's not a weird property.

Speaker 2 Right. No, it would be a good property.
So

Speaker 2 buying, purchasing.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 pay cash for a half million or less. That's what they're moving the other property out for, right?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 3 They may live for another 20 years. And so you got 20 years of rent going up.

Speaker 3 And I would want to be in my 70s and 80s with my biggest asset set.

Speaker 1 Your biggest expense in every budget is housing. And when it goes up every year, you've destabilized your environment.
Let's take it off the table. Yeah, so let's stabilize the environment.

Speaker 1 Zero payments.

Speaker 1 And now we've got a sustainable situation with peace for them. And they're near you.

Speaker 1 And by the way, the difference in, where are they moving from in Florida?

Speaker 2 It's a very rural

Speaker 2 community in the Panhandle.

Speaker 1 Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 Near Panama City.

Speaker 1 All right. But the difference in cost of living there and the cost of living in Las Vegas is very little except real estate.

Speaker 1 Real estate is way different. I'll go along with that.
But a gallon of gas is about the same.

Speaker 1 A loaf of bread is about the same.

Speaker 1 It's not like double in Vegas, what it is the panhandle in Florida. I mean, it might be 10 cents more a gallon or something like that.

Speaker 1 It's 10 cents more a gallon in my neighborhood than it is one county over because they can get away with it in my neighborhood. But, you know, you're going to get some of that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 But by and large, cost of living, when you say that, you know, really electricity, not substantially different. You know, property taxes, maybe higher.
Yeah. Might have that.

Speaker 1 But real estate-related things, that's where you see most, that drives most cost of living indexes into a spiral.

Speaker 1 If you take real real estate out of cost of living indexes, you don't find huge differences in a household budget from city to city. You find some difference, but not huge differences.

Speaker 1 So then that changes the conversation, too, when you reframe it that way.

Speaker 3 And, Dave, tell me if my matrix is wrong here.

Speaker 3 You've got Brenda, whose parents are in their 70s, so let's always want to pretend they might live to 90.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 3 That's five more presidential elections from now. To think we could predict what the world will look like in 20 years.

Speaker 3 It feels better for me to say, I don't know. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to solve for peace in the present.
And that looks like no house payment. Yep.

Speaker 3 That feels like a wiser choice than trying to speculate on, well, is this going to be a good investment? What's going to happen in 20 years? And

Speaker 1 who knows? So here's the thing.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's a really good point to pan back and keep perspective because in 2008, when the real estate market, Vegas was one of the, it was the fastest growing city in America at that point.

Speaker 1 And they got crushed. And they got the hardest hit on the bubble.
They had the most value loss of any city in America. Now, it rebounded very quickly.

Speaker 3 I was going to say, and if you'd walk in with $100 million of cash and just started buying places, you would be worth an unfathomable amount of money. A trillion.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You'd be worth 10x. And so it just does, like, so who knows? Yeah, but you, and who would have predicted 2008? Because Vegas was a boomtown.

Speaker 1 If you'd have done this deal in 2007, 2006, you wouldn't have, you know,

Speaker 1 you're exactly right.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 it's odd that that,

Speaker 1 but it did.

Speaker 1 It went in half. You could buy real estate everywhere.
Wow. And then it bounded right back.
Thank God. It's a wonderful city.

Speaker 3 And the last time I was there, they were building like crazy.

Speaker 1 Economically, it's a wonderful city again. Yeah.
But that just tells you 2008's not that long ago.

Speaker 1 We're only 15 years.

Speaker 1 So, you know, it's not

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 that's a good point. And that, gosh, gosh, if you'd have done this deal back then and they were 20 years later, 30 years later, 30 years, 20 years is a long time.

Speaker 3 Or maybe, tell me if this is a bad way to look at it because I don't look at things like real estate investment, but let's say things, let's pretend it went in half again in 20 years, and mom passes away, dad passes away, they live 20 more years, great times of the grandkids, and you have to sell that place.

Speaker 3 You're still walking away with a check for $300 or $400,000.

Speaker 3 And you've lost, let's pretend it cuts in half, which it won't.

Speaker 1 From today. From today.
Wow, that would be

Speaker 1 unprecedented.

Speaker 3 You still walk away with a chunk of money, right?

Speaker 3 You're still okay, is what I'm saying. Yeah.
And so I guess this long-term stuff, like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 If you pan back, you'll make better decisions. Yeah.
Just solve for peace right now. Yeah.
Solve for peace long-term, too. Make better decisions.

Speaker 1 I was doing a podcast this morning with a friend of mine that's just started a new one that's famous. It'll be out later.
And

Speaker 1 I said, the stuff we teach, these biblical financial principles, they're the only financial principles that work in good times and bad times. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So if we have a banner wonderful year in 2025, she's asking what 25 is going to do.

Speaker 1 I said, you know, these are the same principles that are going to work, but they're also the same principles that work when we're not having a banner year. That's right.

Speaker 1 So you solve for peace both times, and that gets us there. So Martin is in Columbia, South Carolina.
Hey, Martin, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Yeah, hey, thank you for taking my question. Sure.

Speaker 1 What's up?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I just got a quick question. I'm 34.

Speaker 2 I got no savings.

Speaker 2 I got a baby on the way in May.

Speaker 1 Yay!

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 my credit score is in the crapper, and I don't know where to begin to rebuild.

Speaker 1 Awesome.

Speaker 1 You're in a great place.

Speaker 1 The baby was like a wake-up call. Martin, time to get real, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's what the wake-up call was. And I'm $27,000 in debt.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what do you make?

Speaker 2 Which may not seem

Speaker 2 close to two grand a month, maybe a little bit more, depending on how much I work.

Speaker 1 What do you do for a living?

Speaker 2 Take care of animals.

Speaker 1 You don't make much money.

Speaker 2 And I've also,

Speaker 2 I don't, but I also have options of buying the business if I work hard enough.

Speaker 1 Why would I want this business? It doesn't make any money.

Speaker 2 That's well, that's true. So I'm also thinking about getting into trade work, too.

Speaker 1 Of what kind?

Speaker 2 Plumbing.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, that would triple your income.

Speaker 3 But it's going to be seven years before you make any money.

Speaker 1 It'll be triple his income as an intern compared to what he's making now.

Speaker 2 I was hoping like maybe you guys might have some guidance

Speaker 1 for me.

Speaker 1 How old are you?

Speaker 2 I'm 34.

Speaker 1 How long have you been married?

Speaker 2 Not long. Not too long.

Speaker 1 What's that mean? Yesterday?

Speaker 2 Oh, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
We're not married yet.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're not married yet.

Speaker 1 That's what I thought it meant.

Speaker 3 Really not long.

Speaker 1 Like, really not long at all.

Speaker 1 Gonna be this weekend, Dave. Merry Christmas.
Ho, ho, ho. Here we go.
All right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 We're living together in a camper to save money.

Speaker 1 I bet.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 You know, things are really tight right now.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So

Speaker 3 you got to go at a job, two jobs right now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you need to.

Speaker 1 You need to get your income up substantially, sir. Get your little family married and get them into a little one-bedroom apartment.
You don't raise mama and the baby in a camper, honey.

Speaker 1 Time to man up now. Time to quit playing around.
Y'all were playing around going camping. Now you got a now.
You got a deal.

Speaker 1 Now you got a deal. So it's time to step up.
You can do it. Hang on.
We'll help you. We'll put you through financial peace university to help you get your money together.

Speaker 1 But, dude, you got to get your income up now.

Speaker 1 Now.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.
The best way to make your money behave

Speaker 1 is a behavior plan for your money. It's called a budget.
Make your money behave. Tell it what to do instead of wondering where it went.

Speaker 1 The world's best way to do that is called every dollar, where you give every dollar an assignment every month

Speaker 1 and you agree on it with your spouse. And then you know why you have money or you know why you don't have money.
That changes everything.

Speaker 1 So download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play and use it.

Speaker 1 You have to have a plan. No one accidentally wins.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 it's not going to work that way. You're going to have to leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home, boys and girls.
And you do this with every dollar. You'll change everything.

Speaker 1 Hunter is in Panama City. Hi, Hunter.
Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Thank you, Mr. Ramsey.
Great, great to talk with you. Really appreciate you taking my question.

Speaker 1 Sure. How can we help?

Speaker 2 Hey, so I'm 30 years old. I'm married.
We've got three kids.

Speaker 2 And me and my wife right now are a little over $100,000 in debt.

Speaker 1 On what?

Speaker 2 And yeah, but

Speaker 1 $100,000 in debt on what?

Speaker 2 So we have we bought a piece of land that's about

Speaker 2 $60,000 to $65,000 we still owe on that.

Speaker 1 We have a car pigment,

Speaker 2 which is we have about $25,000 left on that. And then I have student loans, which is about $20,000.

Speaker 1 Okay, what do you make?

Speaker 2 So I make $70,000 to $75,000. Cool.

Speaker 1 And you don't live on the land. You just bought the land.

Speaker 2 So we still, yeah, we're still paying paying on the land.

Speaker 1 But you don't live on it.

Speaker 2 No, sir. No.
Currently, we're living with my wife's grandparents in a one-bedroom barn house. And so we're just living there.
We're literally living on about $1,000 a month.

Speaker 2 And the rest, we're just stalking away towards debt and trying to get completely out of debt.

Speaker 2 Download this app called

Speaker 2 Yeah, the app you guys have, the Easy Money apps. I'm literally just trying to

Speaker 2 completely get out of debt and trying to get out of it fast.

Speaker 1 I think you meant the every dollar app, I hope.

Speaker 2 Every dollar app, yes, sir.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.
If I got one called Easy Money, I'm not aware of it. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Every Dollar.

Speaker 1 So you make $70,000 and you're living on nothing, and you have $105,000 worth of debt, including the land.

Speaker 1 Correct. Yes.
What's the land worth?

Speaker 2 So it's already up in property value. We originally, whenever we bought it, we bought it for $75,000.

Speaker 2 It's now worth $85,000.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 in this vicinity,

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. Who said it's worth $85,000?

Speaker 2 So we had a property appraiser whenever we closed on the land.

Speaker 1 How long did you close it? $85,000.

Speaker 2 Oh, I'm sorry, not whenever we closed, but whenever we signed to purchase the land.

Speaker 1 But it was appraised at $85,000 when you bought it?

Speaker 2 Yes, sir. And we bought it for $75.

Speaker 1 How long ago did you buy it?

Speaker 2 We bought it almost a year ago. Okay.

Speaker 1 So it could be worth even more now.

Speaker 1 Correct. Yes, sir.
Okay. All right.
I'll work with you. So your question is what, Hunter?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so our question is, should we sell the land and then just pay off all of our debt?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 Okay. All right.

Speaker 1 Yes. All right.

Speaker 2 That answers my question.

Speaker 1 And you're free. So the only question is that I'm thinking about eventually building.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, I think you'll have that dream come true someday.

Speaker 1 And the fact that you're living in your grandparents' barndominium tells me you like a piece of dirt, which is cool. I'm with you on that.
I like dirt too.

Speaker 1 I like a little room, a little elbow room, so to speak. And,

Speaker 1 I mean, I live in a part of Tennessee where gunfire on Saturdays, pretty normal sound by the neighbors. And so, you know, I like a little room.
And the,

Speaker 1 you know, you're kind of got that in your blood. I can hear it.
Not the gunfire, but the elbow room.

Speaker 1 Anyway,

Speaker 1 and you're in your early 20s, maybe?

Speaker 1 Yes,

Speaker 2 I just turned 30 this year.

Speaker 1 Okay, all right. What do you do for a living?

Speaker 2 So I do wedding and elopement photography.

Speaker 1 Cool. Okay.

Speaker 2 Yes, so it started that about four years ago.

Speaker 1 I can't imagine how interesting elopement photography is, but that's a whole other subject. Okay.

Speaker 3 all right um pretty great yeah please tell me you keep a little journal somewhere just a tally mark that says not gonna make it or gonna make it oh yeah

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 1 oh all right i i i like that you are willing to sacrifice to get where you're going and you're willing to make hard decisions to get where you're going.

Speaker 1 Those two things tell me you're going to get where you're going. So I'm not worried about you getting to live your dream.
I think you're going to get there.

Speaker 1 All I'm thinking about is what's the shortest distance between two points, between where you are and owning something. So probably if I'm you, I'm saving like crazy.

Speaker 1 I'm going to get us a little starter house.

Speaker 1 I'm going to make a bunch of money on it over the next four or five years, and I'm going to buy a piece of ground and build on it as my phase two in this process rather than phase sub one, which you started with the ground way before.

Speaker 1 you were even out of debt on the other thing. So, and the good news is the ground will get you out of debt for now, and you got zero payments.
You can pile cash.

Speaker 1 You could be able to stack cash all in that barn, man.

Speaker 1 Just stack it in there and then go get you a nice starter house and let that thing go up in value like the land did and then sell it and build on a piece of ground someday, maybe out there five or 10 years.

Speaker 1 That would be where I am. And that's also about the time you're probably going to be a millionaire.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and there's something about putting a sitting down with your wife and y'all put, it's arbitrary. Let's say two years.
Let's put a deadline. We're going to be out of this barn in two years.

Speaker 3 Here's how much money we want to have. What must be true? How do we get that much money? Am I going to have to shoot on Sundays and Saturday nights and Wednesday mornings?

Speaker 3 And I'm going to take as many of these gigs as I can get. I'm going to stop saying no to things.
What would, and what's she doing?

Speaker 3 What must be true for us to have this dollar amount to walk out of here and get that small starter home in 24 months, 32 months?

Speaker 3 And sometimes when you put a deadline on it, it doesn't feel like it's forever. And you can just work yourself silly knowing there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

Speaker 1 So, um,

Speaker 1 I got a pattern pattern this hour. I got to stop for a second.

Speaker 1 Young ladies,

Speaker 1 you need to be very clear with your fiancés or your husbands. You need to say what you are really thinking and not go along with,

Speaker 1 I live in the barn loft. or the camper.

Speaker 1 Because there are some young ladies that'll go along with that

Speaker 1 because they agree with the goal and they're all in. And that's fine.
I'm not talking to you. But you young ladies who these

Speaker 1 knuckleheads that you are married to are marrying have talked you into living in a barn loft or in a camper because they think that that's the way.

Speaker 1 You need to domesticate this wild mulephant that you have married and let them know that ladies generally don't like living under bridges. This is a bunch of crap.

Speaker 1 And so it took me a little while to realize this because I, and I can, and you knuckleheads, I'm one of you. I'm only more advanced

Speaker 1 because I don't care where I live. I'm the guy that could live in the barn loft or the camper or under the bridge for that matter.
It does not bother me. I mean, it doesn't really.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 happy wife, happy life is one of the equations. And so

Speaker 1 you guys are,

Speaker 1 you are thinking that you're doing something very positive for the future of your family. Meanwhile, you are leaving some marks on that relationship that

Speaker 1 because you're stupid.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I know this because I'm you. Okay.
And so

Speaker 1 again, there are some times that I have talked to couples that both of them are all in.

Speaker 1 And we bought a $2,000 used mobile home and we lived in it for three years and saved up and paid cash for a home. And both of them were all in.
But they had an end goal.

Speaker 1 They had an end goal, number one. And number two, they were both all in.
One of them wasn't going along with it because they think that they married Sir Galahad and they didn't. They married Goober.

Speaker 1 And so,

Speaker 1 you know, this is my wife. Bless your heart.
So I'm just warning some of you, ladies, you need to speak up and you knuckleheads.

Speaker 1 Quit moving your lady that hasn't spoken up into these ridiculous situations to accomplish your dream. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 If you don't know, you can join the Ramsey Show and get all three of the segments, all three of the hours, if you will, of the show. on the Ramsey Network app.

Speaker 1 You can also search on the Ramsey Network app by subject and get all the different calls on a certain subject.

Speaker 1 Keep you from listening to 26 hours to find out about your car lease or whatever it is, right?

Speaker 1 And you can send us an email on the Ramsey Network app, which is what happened today, John.

Speaker 3 All right, today's Ramsey Network app, it's from Hope.

Speaker 3 And personally, this hits too close to home, so I don't appreciate it, Hope. But here we go.
My husband and I are in Baby Step 2 and have $12,000 more to go. We're so close.

Speaker 3 He's been fully on board with the Baby Steps until recently. He's an avid hunter and wants to go hunting this season.

Speaker 3 If he kills a deer, it costs around $200 to butcher it and between $2,000 and $1,000 to mount it.

Speaker 3 I told him we needed to decide together about hunting during baby step two and that I don't support him spending $1,000 right now.

Speaker 3 I reminded him that by next season we'd have a lot more money and freedom to spend more freely. He says, I've sucked the fun out of hunting by asking these questions.

Speaker 3 He probably had to set down his pacifier to say that. He says hunting is his hobby and the only thing that makes him happy.

Speaker 1 Well, that's a little insulting.

Speaker 3 Gosh, that's so dramatic. I have no problem with him hunting.
I just want to plan financially before he goes. Am I wrong?

Speaker 1 Is his little face red? Was his little lip stuck out? Yeah. Like, I sound like a kid on the cereal

Speaker 1 loops in his bib. Yeah.

Speaker 1 My hunting makes me happy. It's the only thing that makes me happy.
Happy. All right.
So, yeah, you're killing me. There's two problems.
Come on, man. Number one,

Speaker 3 you're married to a toddler.

Speaker 1 That's number one.

Speaker 3 Number two,

Speaker 3 hope what you have done is you have created,

Speaker 3 you've exaggerated this. I hunt all the time.
I've never had somebody charge me even half of $200 to butcher a deer.

Speaker 1 Really? No.

Speaker 1 What's it cost to process it?

Speaker 3 $55 to $75.

Speaker 1 Okay. That's what it costs.

Speaker 3 And you can do it yourself. You can do it at home for $0.

Speaker 3 And so, and then, good God, no, you don't cost.

Speaker 1 A lot of Ziploc bags. A lot of Ziploc, that's true.

Speaker 3 $9, right?

Speaker 1 $9.

Speaker 1 Plus,

Speaker 3 no, this isn't the season to be mounting deer. And again, $200 to $1,000.
If you're taking it to some fancy taxidermist, maybe.

Speaker 3 Again, this is one like, it's going to cost $1,000. It's not.
It's not. And.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, he may be or she may be. I don't know who's somebody's exaggerating.

Speaker 3 Well, I think she's exaggerating a bit because she didn't want him doing this. And he is being exaggerating with his feelings on the other side.

Speaker 3 There's more things in his life that bring him joy than hunting. And also, it's hunting season.

Speaker 3 And him going out on Saturday and shooting a deer to feed the family and to have some fun and get out in the sun is fine.

Speaker 3 But also, if you're going to add $1,200 as a part of this, that's insane, right? $1,000 plus $200.

Speaker 1 The melodrama around this whole thing is just out of control.

Speaker 3 So it's getting all the way beneath the surface.

Speaker 1 I don't know who's melodramatic, whether it's one of you or both. I think both.
I think both.

Speaker 3 And so, no, having a plan financially before he goes, is that wrong? No.

Speaker 1 I mean, what's 30 out 6 cost around now?

Speaker 1 A dollar and a half? A dollar and a half. Okay.
Yeah. That's what it should cost him to kill a deer.
Right. Assuming he can get it in one shot.
Or two, right?

Speaker 3 So $5 in ammunition, right?

Speaker 3 But hey, it can add up, gas and yada, yada. I do think you're right.
Having a plan financially is important.

Speaker 1 It's good.

Speaker 3 And let's take hunting off the table because this seems to be a third real topic in your house.

Speaker 3 Let's say it's any number of things that you like to do. Baby step two is survival.
It's about running and gunning, and you put a pause on expensive things. You put a pause on going out.

Speaker 3 You put a pause on some of these things.

Speaker 3 And so I can imagine Hope hasn't gone out to eat, hadn't been on a date, hadn't got her hair or nails done in a year, and husband wants to go spend $1,000 deer hunting. I get that.

Speaker 1 I get that.

Speaker 3 But I think beneath it, we have to say yes. We're going to have a financial plan before we do anything, anything,

Speaker 1 especially in baby step two.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but the other thing is this, whatever it is you're you're trying to fit into your budget when you're working in baby step two, you look at it through a different lens than you do when you're rich someday.

Speaker 1 That's right. When you're rich someday, you know, you might pay some money to go do a hunt in a certain way.
That's right. You might pay someone to process the deer.

Speaker 1 You might pay someone to have a beer. But hunting is different than having it mounted.
Hunting is different than processing.

Speaker 1 There are three different activities here. That's exactly.
There you go. So we can break this apart and say,

Speaker 1 one possibility is hunting makes me happy. It's the only thing that makes me happy.

Speaker 1 So go hunting, kill a deer, take it out in the backyard, butcher it, and your family will actually save money on groceries as a result. That's right.

Speaker 1 So it's a net gain, but no processing fee and no mounting.

Speaker 3 Get our friend the Butcher Brothers on the ball.

Speaker 1 And then you have to say mounting. Mounting makes me happy.
No, that doesn't

Speaker 1 call

Speaker 1 it a hole on that one, right? That's a $1,000.

Speaker 3 piece of decoration on your wall.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that collects dust, and pretty soon you'll be tired of Bambi's daddy.

Speaker 1 but yeah, really, seriously, um, we, we mounted a shark one time we caught, and that thing, we couldn't get rid of it. No, you can never get rid of it.

Speaker 1 It went from house to house, and finally it's in somebody's attic now.

Speaker 3 And you know what? As soon as that person dies, it's going to end up in someone else's attic.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's probably going to end up in the dumpster before it's, you know what I mean? It's like

Speaker 1 it served its, it was way past its joy.

Speaker 1 But fishing makes me happy. No, it doesn't.
Okay, so there you go. Yeah, so I think the trick here is is find ways to do things you love and that are a net gain.

Speaker 1 This guy could actually go hunting and it saves on the grocery bill net net, zero cost and even a positive to the family. That's exactly right.

Speaker 3 Yeah. That's right.

Speaker 1 Because a deer tenderloin is phenomenal.

Speaker 3 I had one for lunch today. There we go.

Speaker 1 Oh, my mouth just watered up.

Speaker 3 And so I'm saying this like someone who hunts a lot.

Speaker 3 I think

Speaker 3 there's just some straw man going on here. There's some false realities here.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of crap going on in this. Yeah.
Yeah, for real. So, yeah,

Speaker 1 he needs to say, I'm all in for our goals, and so I'm going to decrease the grocery budget

Speaker 1 because I'm going to do the butchering this year myself. I'm going to not mount anything I kill this year myself.

Speaker 1 And if hunting makes you happy, you'll shoot another one you can mount later. That's right.

Speaker 3 That's the thing. We're just going to shoot does this year.
We're not going to mount anything. We're just shooting for food this year.
And I'm going to get out and get some fresh air.

Speaker 3 I mean, we're going to go on for the...

Speaker 1 The bow hunting doesn't cost you anything. Assuming you get the arrow back.

Speaker 3 Arrows are pretty expensive, man. They're way more expensive than bullets.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's true. You got to get it back.

Speaker 1 This is just

Speaker 1 so.

Speaker 3 Davis feels like

Speaker 1 he's a toddler.

Speaker 1 If he's really saying this, he's acting like a toddler, if he's really saying this.

Speaker 3 But it sounds like Hope has given up a lot this year, and she wants him to give up his thing. And when you start talking to score, that's the death of a relationship.

Speaker 1 It's not necessary. It's not necessary.

Speaker 1 How can we do as many of the things that we both want to do, and it doesn't have a net, net loss to our budget that's substantial, that keeps us from accomplishing our big goals, which is financial freedom.

Speaker 1 So we can, if you hunt like no one else later, you can hunt like no one else. Ooh, I like that.

Speaker 3 But here's another example. We tell people, don't go to restaurants.
Don't go out on dates. You can't afford it.
You're in baby step two.

Speaker 3 But you can go for a walk together and hold hands in the neighborhood. You can put the kids to bed and light some candles and

Speaker 3 talk to each other and make a date around your house. You're just going to have to do it differently because you don't have any money.
You're broke. And I think that's the same thing here.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Exactly right. You're going to find some ways to do it, but man,

Speaker 1 everybody in this house needs to grow up a little bit.

Speaker 1 Jeez.

Speaker 1 All right. Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225.
I'm not crazy. This is nothing to say you're not.
You're not.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's the difference in the kid playing rec league and the kid doing $8,000 a year in travel sports.

Speaker 3 Yeah, is the goal to play baseball and be a good teammate and have fun, or is it to make yourself feel better at the expense of your 12-year-old?

Speaker 1 Well, or, I mean, the family's broke, but the kid's got an $8,000 travel schedule, and he's never going to play ball

Speaker 1 past high school. But, by God, you know, what? What? I mean, really.

Speaker 1 We established pretty quick, Daniel Ramsey is a good hockey player, but we established pretty quick he wasn't going to be in the NHL.

Speaker 1 And so based on that, we decide how much we're going to invest in this process. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 It's like, you know, and you can get your collarbone broken playing high school hockey you don't have to do this you don't have to do it on the road somewhere hey james we're talking about uh hunting and travel sports anything else you want us to talk about to get us canceled i was going to put this question on with george and rachel but i think it worked a little better with you guys

Speaker 1 yeah george there are george dealing with deer hunting that would be good

Speaker 3 He would be the guy that spends that kind of money on it, too.

Speaker 3 George gets scared at the deli section at Whole Foods.

Speaker 1 He's hungry out in the

Speaker 1 Is it gluten-free? That's all he wants to know.

Speaker 1 Excuse me, Mr.

Speaker 3 Deer, please don't eat those acorns. That's glutens in them.

Speaker 1 That's not fair. George isn't here to defend himself.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr.

Speaker 1 John Deloney, PhD in counseling, number one best-selling author and host of the very popular Ramsey Network show, the Dr. John Deloney Show.
He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Leonardo is in Chicago. Hi, Leonardo.
How are you?

Speaker 2 I am good, Dave. How are you?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2 Well, Dave,

Speaker 2 to put it just straightforward, I kind of got lucky in the stock market. I'm up $180,000, but now I'm in a midlife crisis.
I don't know what to do with my life.

Speaker 2 Should I put that money, go to school, or maybe should I get up property? I'm 24 years old. I think

Speaker 2 the properties in Chicago are not too expensive compared to other cities, but I would love your input.

Speaker 2 And yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you hit the lotto and you got 180 grand

Speaker 1 and you're 24 years old. What are you going to do with your life?

Speaker 1 What are you going to do with your life? What do you want to be when you grow up? I mean,

Speaker 1 when you're 54, what do you look back and go, I like the 24-year-old Leonardo because he made a wise decision at 24. What does that 54-year-old doing at that point?

Speaker 2 I think

Speaker 2 I can

Speaker 2 be a and it's because my father's an electrician, so if I can follow through his steps i can also get help from him and i think that's a a noble career maybe not the best paying but i i think that's a pretty good career to have

Speaker 3 um our friend ken coleman just just wrote a report recently about the explosion of millionaires in who are plumbers and electricians who are creating

Speaker 1 it is a noble career but it feels like you fell backward into that to me like your dad's doing it that's how you figured it out

Speaker 2 Yeah, maybe you're right. I

Speaker 2 it's just like

Speaker 2 I've always been into business, like I've always really liked it, I've always liked to find ways to make money lucratively, but I want stability, if I'm being honest. I'm tired of feeling stressed.

Speaker 1 If you make $200,000 a year in your business, you'll be stable.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but you have to know, you have to, you have to know when to walk away from the table.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I'm saying,

Speaker 1 don't confuse

Speaker 1 boring with stable.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think it's a very good question.

Speaker 1 Stable is predictable is all stable is.

Speaker 1 And if you know how, if you, if you are better at business than you are at being an electrician, then running a business of some kind is different than speculating and gambling on stocks. So

Speaker 1 you could be in the business world. Maybe that's what you want to learn how to do.
You want to start and operate a business of some kind. You may have something already in mind you'd like to do.

Speaker 1 Do you?

Speaker 2 I actually

Speaker 2 not really, if I'm being honest,

Speaker 2 I kind of really like real estate, which is why I want to buy a property, live in, like maybe the basement, and then rent out the first floor.

Speaker 2 And then I could basically live for the same price I'm living currently, which is I've always lived below my means.

Speaker 2 Currently, my rent is $600.

Speaker 2 And I'm very grateful for the people that are letting me rent here.

Speaker 1 Hold on, Leonardo.

Speaker 3 Leonardo, Leonardo.

Speaker 3 you're mimicking something you saw on Instagram. What do you want to do? You don't want to live in the basement while somebody lives above you.

Speaker 3 What do you want to do?

Speaker 1 What's the 54-year-old Leonardo doing that is glad that he did this? It's fulfilling. It's a predictable thing.
He's used his skills and his

Speaker 1 passions to build a wonderful life for himself. What's he doing? That's what you need to do.
So I don't know what that is. I I don't know if you do today.

Speaker 1 So I can't tell you what to do based on this call. What I can tell you is you need to go through Ken Coleman's assessment and

Speaker 1 finding the work. You find the work you're wired to do.
I'll send you the copy of the book and the assessment. I want you to take that and then begin to do some analysis.

Speaker 1 You might even call and talk to Ken on his show

Speaker 1 or jump on his website and interface with him on email, however you want to do it. I don't care.
But

Speaker 1 I think we've got to figure out

Speaker 1 don't make the mistake of picking a career because you think it makes money. Don't make the mistake of picking a career because your dad did.
Don't make the mistake of picking a career or a track

Speaker 1 because it's quote unquote stable.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 people.

Speaker 1 When people say something like that, what that means to me is they don't think running their own small business is stable.

Speaker 1 And I can promise you that there there are more millionaires running small businesses than any other category.

Speaker 3 And don't watch social media and try to quote unquote hack your way to wealth because

Speaker 1 that's exactly it.

Speaker 3 You're going to give somebody 10 grand for their 10-step course to how to hack their wealth. And all you're going to do is make them rich.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. There's not a hack.
Quit looking for a way to make money. Look for a way to find something that adds value

Speaker 1 to the world and that gives you a sense of passion, a sense of peace. I'm going to send you a copy of this assessment and this book on how to read the assessment.

Speaker 1 I want you to go through it in detail. I want you to take some time and prayer over it and unpack it.
And if you want to call us back, you can call us back at that point.

Speaker 1 But call back one day when we kins on here and go over the results with him. It would be good.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 the results are self-explanatory, by the way. But aside from that,

Speaker 1 that's what you're looking for. You're looking for something where your passions intersect your talents, not just what someone else did because it made money.

Speaker 3 Well, I think

Speaker 3 the matrix is your passions and your talents that overlay.

Speaker 1 What does the world need?

Speaker 3 It's an old Frederick Beechner quote. Like, what does the world desperately need that you can provide?

Speaker 1 That only you can provide.

Speaker 3 Right. And man, go make that happen.
And

Speaker 3 the money will follow you, man. The money will follow you.
Dave,

Speaker 3 he said something, and he said it in his own unique way.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 1 it's an old psychological trope.

Speaker 3 Wherever you end up, you go with you. He won on stocks.
Young kid, won $180,000. He bet right.
He threw darts backwards, which is what day traders do, and he won.

Speaker 3 And he thought that was going to solve everything. He made more

Speaker 3 in one cash out than his dad did in a year.

Speaker 3 And he still was anxious. And he said, I just want peace.
I'm tired of stressed out all the time. And he realized, oh, I went with me.
And so I don't want this life.

Speaker 3 I don't want this rattling around all the time.

Speaker 3 And searching for peace is always that alignment of where are you providing value and where are you working really hard and where are you getting better and better and better at a thing that you're good at.

Speaker 3 And man, you just got to keep doing it. It's not a hack to that.
You got to just keep showing up and showing up and showing up and showing up.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and that's not running to your dad's career. No.
And it's not running to a career that someone outlined is a good way to make money. That's right.

Speaker 1 It's finding how you're wired. and put together.
Okay, so we know that the high stress, uber high-risk environment of day day trading, which is ludicrous, is not for you.

Speaker 1 It's not for anybody, but we also know it's not for you. You said that.
But you also said, I like business. Yeah.
Now, what's that mean?

Speaker 1 You need to unpack that because that's a very valuable phrase right there.

Speaker 1 I've always been in business for myself, except for one three-month period of time. You know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Or I've been straight commissioned. One of the two.

Speaker 1 So that when I made money, when I caused something to happen, I made money. I've always been been able to make the connection between those two.
So I agree with you.

Speaker 1 I like business, but that can open up a lot of doors to you. You can do a lot of different things you're passionate about, and you add value to

Speaker 1 people in your life.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Guys, student loan debt is an epidemic and defaulting on debt makes you feel even worse.

Speaker 1 But our question of the day sponsor, YReFi, refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay.

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Speaker 1 might not be in all states.

Speaker 3 All right, today's question comes from Abigail in West Virginia. Abigail writes, My in-laws are too much to deal with, specifically my mother-in-law.

Speaker 3 Abigail, she knows you wrote this. She, I don't know how mother-in-laws know, they just know.
She has to stick her nose into everything.

Speaker 3 She has a key to our house, which was bought by my husband before we got married. She's folded our laundry, cleaned our house, and moved stuff while we were not at home.
Oh, man.

Speaker 3 I've asked my husband to talk to her, but he told me he couldn't do it and told me to chill out.

Speaker 1 You don't have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem.

Speaker 3 You have a husband problem.

Speaker 1 God almighty.

Speaker 3 That makes me so uncomfortable to think my mom would come over to our house. My mom's amazing, but my mom would come over and go through our stuff.

Speaker 1 Unsolicited.

Speaker 3 Go through our stuff.

Speaker 1 Without your permission.

Speaker 3 And even more uncomfortable is my wife said, I need this to not happen again and i said

Speaker 3 i can't do it i can't do it i'm scared of my mommy oh my gosh abigail you have a husband problem he needs to run down to walmart on aisle three and pick up a backbone yeah and some pampers while he's there because he might tt in his pants while he talks to mommy y'all need to have this conversation i mean this is awful yeah sorry sorry sorry sorry this is awful uh mother-in-law is going to do what here's the deal i think if and maybe she's controlling I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Speaker 3 I think mother-in-law is trying to love her little baby the best she knows how.

Speaker 1 She's trying to be helpful, and she's screwed up.

Speaker 3 Yes, and she doesn't think you're loving him the same the right way, but she's not going to say anything. She's just going to keep doing it.

Speaker 3 And I think your cute little hubby is a gigantic 14-year-old and he needs to grow up real, real quick. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, um,

Speaker 1 if you say a thing,

Speaker 1 you start a 10-year feud.

Speaker 1 You can't say a thing. The only thing you can do is encourage your husband to have a backbone.
And

Speaker 1 this is out of line.

Speaker 1 There's no boundaries here. This is ridiculous.
And it needs to stop yesterday.

Speaker 1 Tell him you want the locks changed. And you want him to call his mother and tell her to not come in your home without.

Speaker 1 clearing it with both of you first, that you're a married couple, and this is weird, and she shouldn't be doing this. Mom, we love you.
Thank you for the help. You can't do this anymore.

Speaker 1 I've changed the locks. Your key's not good anymore and you don't need to come in our home anymore.
It's a real short, calm conversation and he needs to man up and do that.

Speaker 1 If he cannot do that, you do not have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem and you'll need to sit down with a marriage counselor.
Correct.

Speaker 3 And by the way, To husband listening to this, you don't call your mom and say,

Speaker 3 my wife doesn't want you coming in the house moment anymore.

Speaker 3 You be a grown-up and you say, I, I messed up.

Speaker 1 Leave and cleave. That's right.
Leave your mother and father.

Speaker 3 We need to figure out how to do these things on our own.

Speaker 1 To your spouse.

Speaker 2 Golly, dude.

Speaker 3 And mother-in-laws. Don't break into your kids' homes and do their laundry for them

Speaker 3 unless there's like a medical crisis or a newborn and they've asked you for your help.

Speaker 1 Don't do that. Even if there's a newborn and they ask for your help, you still ask permission.

Speaker 3 Yes. Oh, of course.
But I mean, that's what I mean. If you've been been invited.

Speaker 1 You have to show up with a key

Speaker 1 that you had before they were married.

Speaker 1 So one of the best practical jokes we ever played was a key. Have you ever heard this one? No.
I had a personal assistant 25 years ago, beautiful Christian lady, and she got engaged.

Speaker 1 So for her engagement party, all the guys, we took her to an ice hockey game in Nashville, and

Speaker 1 the announcer at the hockey game was a friend of mine and so one of the guys in the office that was with us was about 10 guys went all throughout the whole section and handed every guy a key went to the hardware store and got keys and the announcer said Cherie is getting married next week anyone that has a key to her apartment needs to bring it to her and like 500 guys got up and started bringing keys to her it was so it was such a wonderful practical joke but yeah that's that's much better than this one.

Speaker 3 This just makes me sad.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is bad. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And can I tell you this one thing? So one time a friend of mine, they were having some family stuff, and it was a

Speaker 3 couple friend of me and my wife's, and we've known them forever and ever and ever. And they were going through some, like just somebody passed away or something.

Speaker 3 And I said, hey, let's get them a house cleaner

Speaker 3 just to come in and clean up and my wife looked at me and said are you crazy so what do you mean

Speaker 3 she said you know what that would feel like to me if somebody came over to see us and then they hired someone to come clean my house oh it'd be like an insult it would be an insult and so i've got to say mom coming over to clean the house and do the laundry is a little bit of a flex

Speaker 1 right it's a little bit of a flex and so it's like cooking the lasagna It's like the recipe you got for lasagna.

Speaker 3 You're not taking care of my little boy

Speaker 3 the way he deserves to be taken care of. I'll come over and help.
It kind of feels like Ray Romano's mom.

Speaker 1 It's like your underwear was folded wrong.

Speaker 3 I'm sorry, honey. I'll do it for you.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 1 husbands grow up. Mother-in-law flex.

Speaker 3 This whole thing makes me feel uncomfortable. Dave, I never feel uncomfortable.
This one does.

Speaker 1 This is like

Speaker 1 it's got a little stalker-esque. It does.

Speaker 1 She's got a key and she sneaks in like Keebler's elves or something

Speaker 1 and cooks and does the laundry.

Speaker 3 No, because this kind of mother-in-law leaves a note that says, hey, I noticed things were messy, so I cleaned up and I vacuumed.

Speaker 3 Y'all have a great night. And it's just like a little,

Speaker 1 a total flex.

Speaker 3 But if you say anything, it's like, oh, oh, I was just trying to help. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 I won't help anymore.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Right. Martyr out.
Martyr out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 She'll definitely martyr out.

Speaker 3 The old, uh,

Speaker 1 oh, okay. Um,

Speaker 3 oh, there's some, there's some old dairy queen napkins in the glove box. I'll just eat those.
Y'all just go eat wherever you want to.

Speaker 3 I'll just eat the old Kleenexes and I'll just sit in the car and be cold. And when y'all get done, y'all just come out.
It's that.

Speaker 1 Hey, I did run into a guy the other day that's opening a new food truck called Wherever You Want to Go. That's the goal.
When everybody asks where they want to eat, it's wherever you want to go.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're heading. We'll go right there.

Speaker 1 There used to be

Speaker 3 a great little honky tonk in Lubbock, Texas called the Library.

Speaker 1 We'd be like, Where are you going? I'm going to the library. All right, good.
I'm the honky tonk. Going to the library.
Love it. All right, boys and girls.
Boundaries are necessary.

Speaker 1 And I will admit

Speaker 1 that the hardest stage of parenting for me has been parenting children who are no longer in my control.

Speaker 1 It is the hardest stage to stay out of other people's business that are grown-ups, even if they are from my flesh and blood. And so that does not matter.
And I don't have any major issues.

Speaker 1 It's not like any of them are doing anything extremely stupid or something, But still, just not telling grown-up people what they have to do with your dad voice, it requires a little bit of discipline.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Even today, my son is studying for his first round of high school finals. He's a freshman.
And

Speaker 3 I know the science of studying. I know the pedagogy of studying.
I've been a high school and a college teacher for my whole career.

Speaker 3 And he's got to go through this first round of finals, studying the way his, he rolls his eyes and says, Dad, I know.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 And right, and it's hard because I want to go in there and say, this is what he's got to learn this time.

Speaker 3 And then next time, we'll be able to speak from a place of, all right.

Speaker 1 All right, I need some help. Yeah, show me how to do this.

Speaker 3 And it's hard. It's hard when you're when your precious little Johnny's underwear isn't folded right.
Mother-in-law, it's Abigail's husband now.

Speaker 1 Abigail. Back up.
Back up.

Speaker 1 Be cool.

Speaker 3 Be cool, man.

Speaker 1 She has to stick her nose into everything.

Speaker 3 It's the move stuff while we weren't home.

Speaker 1 Ah, that one's weird. Yeah, the came back.
The furniture's rearranged.

Speaker 3 It's kind of like misery.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's what I was like. It's got a stalker-esque thing to it.

Speaker 3 The penguin always faces Nora.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey show.

Speaker 1 Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today.
Allison is in Mesa, Arizona. Hi, Allison.
Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Merry Christmas.

Speaker 2 Hi, thank you very much. How are you?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. How can we help? Hi.

Speaker 2 Well, so I have a question about long-term health care insurance or possibly buying an annuity to take care of those issues later in life.

Speaker 2 And I know you're the person to help me out with that.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Long-term care and annuity for later in life.

Speaker 1 Help me give me, give me a little, I don't understand why

Speaker 1 we're worried about this.

Speaker 2 All right. So here's why.
So I'm 57. My husband is 55.
He was just diagnosed with a very aggressive stage four cancer, but otherwise, has always been very healthy.

Speaker 1 Oh, man. I'm so sorry.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Thank you. It's been

Speaker 1 quite a deal.

Speaker 2 He was diagnosed about four months ago. Fortunately, we own our home.

Speaker 2 We have 950,000 in retirement.

Speaker 2 But I just keep wondering what am I supposed to do about purchasing a policy for later in life

Speaker 2 when we're old and need to maybe be in a long-term care facility or a nursing home. And, you know, I've read some and it's just, it's all a little confusing to me.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, let's just talk nursing home insurance for a minute, okay, or long-term care or long-term care insurance. The industry has changed dramatically since that category began

Speaker 1 25 years ago. Today, about all you can buy is three years of coverage.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 You can buy three years of nursing home care coverage. It'll cost you about $1,000 a month, give or take, if you're in your 60s and you have reasonable health.

Speaker 1 Okay, I'm just talking about in general terms here.

Speaker 1 And in general terms, the average nursing home stay in America is 2.8 years.

Speaker 1 Right. Because generally, when someone goes to a nursing home,

Speaker 1 you know, they're not alive for very long after that. That's just a general statistical thing.
It's not a, it doesn't mean nursing homes kill people. That's not what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 But I mean, you know, we're sick. We're in the later stages.
It's not hospice, but it is also

Speaker 1 elderly. It's a lot of different things.
Okay. So 2.8 years.

Speaker 1 So your exposure, if you said $100,000 a year for three years, is $300,000

Speaker 1 on average. On average.
And you have $900 today.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 let's fast forward

Speaker 1 to

Speaker 1 71 years old,

Speaker 1 your husband recovers from stage four, and you guys are now looking at

Speaker 1 one of us might need care.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then we would obviously would have been talking about long-term care insurance. I generally don't recommend it until you're 60 years old.

Speaker 1 He's not insurable right now, so it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 He's going to have to get... He's trying to get that.
Yeah, he's going to have to get the other side of the cancer diagnosis for a while healed before he's going to be insurable.

Speaker 1 But having said that, I think you're probably self-insured.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 here's why. Not because you can't get it, but let's say he's the other side of a cancer diagnosis far enough that you could actually get it.

Speaker 1 And let's pretend that,

Speaker 1 are you working outside the home right now?

Speaker 1 We both are. Okay.

Speaker 1 He's not for long. He's going to be in treatment, right?

Speaker 2 No, he's no.

Speaker 2 We're both university faculty, and

Speaker 2 he is working from home.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 He's able to do that with his chemo treatment or whatever he's doing. Okay.
He is. Okay, good.
Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1 And what do you make?

Speaker 2 My base salary is $63. His is

Speaker 1 your salary.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Oh, can we or do we?

Speaker 1 Can you?

Speaker 2 I need to figure that out. Okay.

Speaker 1 If you did, if you did, here's what we've got. You said you've got almost a million dollars in your 401k, right?

Speaker 2 Correct.

Speaker 1 Yeah. If it's invested in good mutual funds and if it averages 10% or more without adding to it, it will double every seven years.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay. And so you're 57, he's 55.
At 64 for you, you'd have 2 million. At 71 71 for you,

Speaker 1 you would have 4 million.

Speaker 1 So you'll have between $2 and $4 million before you need to pay for a nursing home, and you can afford to write a check for the $300 without having bought any insurance.

Speaker 1 That's why I'm thinking you're self-insured.

Speaker 2 So it sounds like what you're saying is I don't need, well.

Speaker 2 You're saying I don't need to worry about it right now, which is a relief.

Speaker 1 You can't.

Speaker 1 You can't worry about it right now because he can't buy it right now. You could buy it, but you don't need to worry about it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't need it right now. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 See how I got there?

Speaker 2 Kind of. I'm just really nervous listening to you talk because I listen to you almost every day and now I'm actually talking to you.

Speaker 1 My brain is just

Speaker 2 I've learned a lot about shark heads in the attic.

Speaker 1 There you go.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I'm so sorry.

Speaker 3 Allison, let me ask you this.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 How much of this spinning out, this, okay, what about this? I got a plan for this. I got a plan for this,

Speaker 3 is just the utter loss of control you feel when somebody says the word cancer with somebody you love?

Speaker 2 Well, I'm sure that's part of it.

Speaker 3 Because here's what it sounds like to me. Dave and I take calls all the time.

Speaker 3 You guys from being in your mid to back half of your 50s are really in good shape. You're in amazing shape.
Financially. And my mom is still a a professor into her 70s.
You can do your job for ages.

Speaker 3 AI may take it, right? But like, let's just pretend.

Speaker 1 You keep doing that.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah.
You're in an amazing position.

Speaker 2 Okay. So I don't, okay.

Speaker 1 The challenge for you is to exhale and be present with your husband, which is going to be hard and scary.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, it is.

Speaker 1 Y'all are good, man. You're good.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 I just wanted to be thinking like five years in advance for him. What do I need to be doing?

Speaker 1 Let's do day by day.

Speaker 1 Let's go seven years from the day. You have $2 million

Speaker 1 in a paid-for house. You may not want to buy long-term care insurance.
You may want to just say, I'll pay for it if I need to.

Speaker 2 That's where I get confused. Like, how would I even access that? Because it's like all in.

Speaker 1 Well, you'll just, you'll

Speaker 1 call your investment advisor and say,

Speaker 1 I need $100,000 a year

Speaker 1 for a nursing home for my husband. And they'll pull it out of the investments.
And instead of $2 million, you'll have $1,007 left if he stays in a nursing home an average period of time.

Speaker 3 Allison, have they put him on a clock?

Speaker 2 You know, that's an interesting question. So it's a,

Speaker 2 just to protect his privacy.

Speaker 2 I'm not going to say what kind of cancer it is,

Speaker 2 but

Speaker 2 the,

Speaker 2 I mean, he's been incredibly healthy. And so this, again, just came out of nowhere.
But in terms of a clock,

Speaker 2 the five-year

Speaker 2 survival rate up until

Speaker 2 last year was 8%.

Speaker 2 A clinical trial, he's now doing what the clinical trial, you know, has now been

Speaker 2 accepted or approved by the FDA. So there is no five-year.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 at this point there isn't, but what we do know is that with the treatment that they're doing for him,

Speaker 2 we're looking at maybe a 20% chance of eradication of the cancer.

Speaker 2 And we're doing everything that we can to get him in there. I mean, he's never smoked.
He's never drank.

Speaker 2 He's always been active. And so, but it's the getting there that's really hard.

Speaker 1 That is.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 3 let's stay as optimistic as possible and let's stay in deeply in prayer and let's let's try these

Speaker 3 these clinical trials. Amazing.
And

Speaker 3 let's remember that every second is golden when it comes to how precious it is.

Speaker 3 And let's let tomorrow's, you guys are in such great shape, let's let tomorrow's worries be tomorrow's. Right now we're going to just celebrate and be enjoyed with every precious second.

Speaker 1 If you don't tear into your nest egg, you're going to be self-insured for long-term care needs when you're in your mid-60s. That's the answer to your question.
You're fine. Well done.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host.
He's also

Speaker 1 my compadre on this money and relationships tour we're doing in the spring. We are doing something we've never done.

Speaker 1 I've done live events for 30 years where I come out on stage and yak at you and and tell you what to do with your money and that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 And we're going to do that, but we're going to do it in a different way.

Speaker 1 We're going to let you select the topics you want John and I to talk about while you're sitting in the audience before we come out.

Speaker 1 We're going to send them out there to your phone, and then we're going to design the show that night custom for each one of the cities. I think this is going to be cool, John.

Speaker 3 Every city is going to be different. And I tell you what, I tell people all the time, I don't get nervous anymore.
I get excited. I don't get nervous anymore.

Speaker 3 I'm pretty nervous about this one. This one's going to be fun.

Speaker 1 Ah, it'll be like sitting here answering questions. We don't know what questions are coming in here.
So,

Speaker 1 it's like

Speaker 1 we'll make it up as we go, dude.

Speaker 3 Several thousand people in a fancy theater.

Speaker 1 It's going to be fun. Yeah, there's several million listening here, but yeah, there's that.
Yeah. Hey, guys, you got to love it.
It's going to be fun. The Money and Relationships Tour.

Speaker 1 The first one's April 21st in Louisville. It's John and me.
So be sure you join us. Durham is in April 23rd.
Atlanta, April 25th. Phoenix, May 5.
Fort Worth, May 7. And Kansas City, May 9.

Speaker 1 These are all about about 50% or so sold out.

Speaker 1 So you can probably still get your tickets without any trouble. But they will probably after the first of the year is how these things usually work in our world.

Speaker 1 They usually take off and it'll probably blow out like sometime in January and you won't be able to get a ticket. So jump in there and the seats are all signed seats.

Speaker 1 So you get to select where you're going to sit with Ticketmaster and all that junk, which isn't something we've never done before either. So this is kind of fun.
So if you want

Speaker 1 the good seat before they get down to the last few, you know, you go ahead and and get it now, right?

Speaker 3 That's right. It's not going to be a general admission.
Just walk in wherever. It's like it's going to a theater.

Speaker 1 Yep. Yeah.
We actually have assigned, you know, just like these days, if you go to a movie theater, that's what you do, right? So ramseysolutions.com slash tour.

Speaker 1 Or you can go, if you're on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the show notes. Andrew is in Columbus, Ohio.
Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Hi, how are you guys doing?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2 So my wife and I have about $100,000 in debt, not including our mortgage.

Speaker 2 We make about $80,000 a year.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I say we have made bad decisions, but it's really, I put it on me, but we've got ourselves in some pretty bad debt.

Speaker 2 So I'm just trying to figure out the best way to get out of it with the money we make because it seems like in my head we don't make enough.

Speaker 3 What's the debt?

Speaker 2 Credit cards, personal loan, and student loans.

Speaker 3 How much car debt?

Speaker 2 No car debt. We own our cars outright, but we have a personal loan for $35,000 that I used to reconsolidate, and then I sold the vehicle that I had

Speaker 2 to purchase that, basically.

Speaker 1 Okay, so what is your car worth?

Speaker 2 The car, so I have a Ford Expedition that's probably worth

Speaker 2 $11,000 at the moment, and then we just have a smaller vehicle that's not really worth anything. It's got 200 plus thousand miles on it.

Speaker 1 And that's your two cars. You don't have any other cars?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 Okay, and your household income again is what?

Speaker 2 $80,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. How long have y'all been married?

Speaker 2 It's been three years now. We've been together for probably, I think, like seven.

Speaker 1 Okay, so if you cut up the credit cards and take extra jobs and don't go out to eat and don't go on vacation and live on a scorched earth budget, no life,

Speaker 1 how fast you think you can pay this off? Making 80, you need to pay off 100.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I work on the weekends doing side jobs. It's not fully consistent, but it's probably at least twice a month.
That ranges anywhere from 500 to 1,000.

Speaker 2 and I you know I tried to use that I just started listening to you guys like the past two weeks uh because really we've been arguing a lot about money

Speaker 2 trying to be on the same page you know and just finally I started listening you guys and I was like hey we're done with this you know debt stuff we need to get our life together because we have two kids and I just I don't want them to have a bad future so I want to get ourselves set so we can give them a good future you know and set them up.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's pretend that you make 80 and you lived on 50 and you put 30 on debt. You'd be done in three years.

Speaker 1 Right. Let's pretend you raise that to 100 and you put 50 on debt.
You'd be done in two years. But you're both working extra jobs and you have absolutely no life.
And it's not an occasional thing.

Speaker 1 You work all the time for two years and you're done. Okay.

Speaker 1 That's how the math shakes out.

Speaker 3 24 months.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. How long have you been unable to breathe, dude?

Speaker 2 Probably been about a year now.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 So give me two and you're done.

Speaker 3 You're at zero. You're free.

Speaker 1 Forever. Yeah.
You cut up your cards and you never borrow money again.

Speaker 3 But that means you can't hem haul around every couple of weeks. Like, maybe I'll have some work this week.
That means.

Speaker 1 All the time you're working.

Speaker 3 I have a job at Costco, and I go straight from there on Saturdays to throw boxes at Walmart until 11 o'clock at night, and then I get home and I get up at 6 a.m. on Sunday.
I go to church.

Speaker 3 I go do it again. And then I do my regular job Monday through Friday.

Speaker 1 And she and you are locked arms and you're couponing. The kids are wearing consignment.
Yes, experienced clothing.

Speaker 1 You don't have a life. You don't get to do anything, but you get your life back two years from today forever.

Speaker 1 That's living like no one else, so later you can live and give like no one else. You're going to pay a price to get out of this.
The deeper you cut into your life, the faster you get out.

Speaker 1 Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, it does.

Speaker 1 You think she's on board with that?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I absolutely think she will be on board because we've talked about it now for the past couple months, and we're both just tired of being stressed and arguing all the time about it.

Speaker 2 And we want to make a change.

Speaker 2 I think it's just hard for us because it's hard for us to see and picture it because we're so far

Speaker 2 behind, it seems like, that it's just, it seems like we can't figure out where to start.

Speaker 1 Take

Speaker 1 $100,000 in debt, right?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 Put $50,000 on it a year,

Speaker 1 and you're done in two years, agreed?

Speaker 1 Yes. Okay, in order to do that, making $80,000, you need to raise your part-time income by $20,000.

Speaker 1 That gets you to $100, and then you're living on $50,000, and you're putting $50,000 on there. That's $4,000 plus a month on the debt.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And the math says you're done in two years.

Speaker 1 That's not false hope. That's real.

Speaker 1 But I am not saying this can be easy. I'm going to say it's the hardest thing you've ever done in your life.
It will change your life. It will transform your marriage.

Speaker 1 It will change who you are as a man. Two years from now, you will walk different.

Speaker 3 Okay. And if y'all stay together,

Speaker 3 your marriage will be so united because y'all know we can do anything together.

Speaker 3 Right. And few things light up a wife like a husband with lasers in his eyes on behalf of the family.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 You can do this. But you got to come alive, brother.

Speaker 1 I think you've got the language you're using and the way I'm hearing you speak after having done what I do for 30 years, you're giving me all the right signals that you're sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Speaker 1 And when you get there, you're ready to change. You're ready to do something new.

Speaker 1 If you're ready to change and you're ready to do something new, I can show you how to get out faster than anybody else. But I am warning you ahead of time, it's going to be painful.

Speaker 1 And I'm also going to warn you ahead of time it will work, and I'm also going to warn you ahead of time that it's worth it. You'll be free for the rest of your life.
Okay?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2 we've been making that and talking about that for, like I said, the past couple months.

Speaker 1 Okay, it's no more. Tonight, it starts.
We're game on.

Speaker 1 I'm going to send you Financial Peace University, and I'm going to send you every dollar premium free as my gift to you because I've been where you are.

Speaker 1 I've been scared, hopeless, didn't know what the crap was going on. I know exactly how it it feels.
It does not feel good. And then I reached the same point.

Speaker 1 I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. And it changed my life, man.
That's why I'm telling you to work. So hang on.
We'll send you that and get you guys going on this.

Speaker 1 And also throw in a total money makeover book for the heck of it. Let's just Merry Christmas.
Ho, ho, ho, right. Let's just make sure you get the whole dose and dunk yourself in this stuff.

Speaker 1 And listen, whatever your broke friends say,

Speaker 1 If they're making fun of you, that means you're on track. If your mother-in-law thinks you joined a cult, that means you're on track.
Get it. Get it, baby.
Game on.

Speaker 3 Get it.

Speaker 1 You can do it. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 3 What up, what up? It's Dr. John Deloney from the Dr.
John Deloney Show with some amazing news.

Speaker 3 The latest episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey Network app.

Speaker 3 This docuseries follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90-day journey to transform their lives, and I personally walk alongside them every step of the way.

Speaker 3 Okay, now here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about. And don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app.

Speaker 1 What's up, Kelsey?

Speaker 2 So I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember. How do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life?

Speaker 3 What does crippling anxiety mean?

Speaker 1 Paint me a picture of that.

Speaker 3 All right, so you ready to jump in?

Speaker 2 I'm ready to jump in. We're gonna check in with Kelsey 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.
I cannot even function because I'm just crying.

Speaker 2 My mom left us when I was four. I truly felt like for a while I had no family.

Speaker 3 She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago.

Speaker 1 Tell me about this boy.

Speaker 2 He triggers me a lot. Scared of losing Paul, scared of doing the wrong thing, scared of not being enough.

Speaker 3 It just feels like it would be exhausting to be Kelsey. It is.
Whenever somebody's playing whack-a-mole with their anxiety, when it just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying system's not okay.

Speaker 2 How do I get my inner child out of this relationship? Because I feel like she's running the show.

Speaker 3 One of two people that's supposed to never leave took off.

Speaker 1 I was this.

Speaker 1 I was this burden. You burden, that's right.

Speaker 3 To the one person

Speaker 3 who should carry it. All of it.
Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault?

Speaker 2 I don't know what to do.

Speaker 3 You either have to choose to let this guy love you, or you got to choose to let this guy go.