Bad Money Habits and Good Relationships Don’t Mix

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people

Speaker 1 build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Dr.
John Deloney, number one best-selling author a couple times over and host of the Dr.

Speaker 1 John Deloney Show, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 That's 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Madison is with us to start off this hour in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Madison.
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 Hi, Dave. Hi, John.
Thank you so much for taking my call.

Speaker 1 Sure. What's up?

Speaker 2 So I'm in a predicament that I've actually made myself.

Speaker 2 I got married, second marriage for both of us,

Speaker 2 not quite six years ago.

Speaker 2 And at that time,

Speaker 2 I had been through a pretty bad divorce and had a pretty

Speaker 2 traumatic first marriage. So definitely was healing from that and met this wonderful man, so nice to me and kind to me.
And

Speaker 2 I just fell head over heels in love with him.

Speaker 2 I knew he was broke. I knew he didn't have any money.
And

Speaker 2 that just didn't matter to me. He was just so nice to me, and I loved being treated nice.
So

Speaker 2 we got married.

Speaker 2 I did have him sign a prenup I was

Speaker 2 expecting to inherit a large amount of money from my parents' estate at some point. I hadn't at that time, but

Speaker 2 I knew that that would be in the future. And so he did sign a prenuptial agreement and didn't have any problems with that.

Speaker 2 However,

Speaker 2 I started our relationship with just paying all the time. I paid for everything.
We'd go out for dinner, I would pay.

Speaker 2 I already had a place where I lived that I paid for and

Speaker 2 et cetera, etc so I I understand how I've kind of set a pattern

Speaker 2 and at the time it didn't bother me and you know I might want I also want to add this man's Christian man he knows the word of God

Speaker 2 you know we really I really have put this in God's hands and asked for his help

Speaker 2 but I just

Speaker 2 I just can't figure out where that why there's just there's no spirit of generosity with with him. He just has brought up several times, you know, can you please pitch in? Just kick in.

Speaker 2 I don't expect half and half. I have plenty of money.

Speaker 2 I don't need his money. It's just on principle,

Speaker 2 I just need to know that I'm not just the only one that's supporting us. I feel like I'm the breadwinner.

Speaker 1 He doesn't earn an income?

Speaker 2 He did. We are both retired now.
He does not have any retirement.

Speaker 1 How old are you?

Speaker 2 I'm 60. He's 64.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 He took Social Security early. He was working at that time.
And then

Speaker 2 when you started taking Social Security,

Speaker 2 you can only work so many hours. You can only make so much money.

Speaker 2 So that knocked his

Speaker 2 availability down to where he really couldn't work very much. But since then, we've both retired and relocated.

Speaker 1 So what do you feel like the core question is?

Speaker 2 I think I'm just trying to figure out if

Speaker 2 I'm being taken advantage of. Is this just something where

Speaker 2 I'm being, you know, I've brought something up several times and I just

Speaker 2 nothing changes. Nothing,

Speaker 2 it just stays the same.

Speaker 2 And I don't know if I, well, I guess what my next step should be as far as...

Speaker 1 This isn't a money issue. This is a respect issue.
You don't respect the man that you're married to.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 bring home

Speaker 1 i i i bring home a quote unquote income to the house but my wife my god almighty if she disappeared the house would go away so i don't look at her and say wow you're not contributing to this thing and i'm paying for dinner all the time because my money is our money

Speaker 1 right and and the home that she keeps and runs and her small business like that's ours too but there's a mutual respect there

Speaker 1 so this doesn't have to do with money. And you mentioned earlier,

Speaker 1 you don't want a thing,

Speaker 1 you don't want your marriage to be where you're paying for everything. It is.

Speaker 1 That is the world you set up. So

Speaker 1 the only thing you can do from this point forward is to create something new.

Speaker 1 But this is a respect issue. This isn't a, I just need him to pitch in issue.

Speaker 1 Have you been very clear about what you need? Or has it been a, ah, you know, like, man, I sure am paying for a lot. And he might be thinking, well, it's our money.
Have you been very clear with him?

Speaker 2 I'm, I'm not, no. I'm, I'm very afraid of confrontation.
I get very nervous about talking about something like this.

Speaker 1 And then you end up in resentment land because you spend a ton of time having imaginary conversations in your head, don't you?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 Oh, I do. That's cruel and unfair to him.

Speaker 2 And doubt.

Speaker 1 Yes. Yes.
So if you're going to be mad at him. You're going to get on your brain, too.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 If you're going to be mad at him, he at least deserves to know what he could do, give him a path back to relationships.

Speaker 1 Because right now, he married somebody with a lot of money, and he might think he's fulfilling his duties as your husband by being the fun-loving guy that just, whatever, whatever, partridge in a pear tree.

Speaker 1 He needs to know you don't respect him.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I do love him, and I don't want

Speaker 2 anything to end.

Speaker 1 What does he need to do

Speaker 1 to

Speaker 1 be a person that you would respect? Because he doesn't need to work. You guys are retired.
No.

Speaker 1 It's not a work ethic thing. What is it that he's supposed to do that makes him valid in your mind?

Speaker 2 I think just pitching in, say, I don't know, $1,000 a month,

Speaker 1 something social?

Speaker 1 Where has he got money?

Speaker 2 He has Social Security money and he gets other money from.

Speaker 1 So you guys don't have your finances combined at all.

Speaker 2 We do have a joint checking account, but he's never put any money in it.

Speaker 2 So, no.

Speaker 1 But does he have an avenue to do that?

Speaker 2 He could, yeah.

Speaker 2 He could put money in there, yeah, because he's on the account.

Speaker 1 But if he's looking at your vast amount of money in that account, and he looks at his

Speaker 1 piddly

Speaker 1 government check.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 See what I'm saying? Like, he needs to know. And again, I think he's going to put $1,000 in that account, and that's not what the issue is going to be.

Speaker 2 yeah

Speaker 1 if he started depositing a thousand dollars a month in that account you'd be right back here in six months

Speaker 2 i don't know if i would be i don't it it's really it's to me it's like you just said it's not about money it's more about um respect and i think because this has gone on for so long and you know i've allowed it to go on so long and this pattern's been set now

Speaker 2 I want to rewrite the rules, I guess.

Speaker 1 Well, since y'all are married, y'all get to rewrite them together.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 And so I think it's a matter of sitting down and having a conversation and say, hey, we've been married for a few years.

Speaker 1 I need you to do this

Speaker 1 to have me have positive, respectful feelings towards you. And what can I do for you so that you can have positive, respectful feelings towards me?

Speaker 1 Let's put all of it on the table. Let's give each other a chance for success.
Yeah, 100% of what you don't say, he can't hear. Right.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I've been totally married 43 years I'm still working on that Dave I am too man I am too

Speaker 1 the things that are in Sharon's head that I have never heard are amazing but you're in trouble for them always you better fix them what's wrong nothing this is the Ramsey show

Speaker 1 thanks for joining us America dr.

Speaker 1 John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today we appreciate you guys hanging out hey if you like what you hear around here we could use your help please help us subscribe Click the subscribe button.

Speaker 1 Click the share button or share a link or tell somebody where you're listening or watching or whatever it is you're YouTubing or TBNing or whatever it is you're doing.

Speaker 1 You know, Spotify, right? Apple Podcast, whatever it is. Maybe you're listening on a radio station out there.
Thank you. Just share.
And leave us a five-star review, please.

Speaker 1 We'd appreciate it very much. Shay is with us.
Shay is in Daytona. Hi, Shay.

Speaker 2 Hi.

Speaker 2 So just to cut right to the taste, I just took out my first student loan ever.

Speaker 2 Super nerve-wracking. It's for my master's in social work, and it's about $45,000.
That's without the interest.

Speaker 2 So I'm just trying to figure out what's a great path to start on that, like how to tackle it super fast, because I don't want to be with this debt for like 10 years.

Speaker 1 You just took out your first loan for a semester or you just finished a degree program and you have $45,000 in the hole?

Speaker 2 No, so

Speaker 2 it's like $6,000 a semester,

Speaker 2 but they just gave it all to me at once. So it's

Speaker 2 $45,000 is what they gave me at once.

Speaker 1 Who's they? I've never heard of that ever.

Speaker 2 It's financial aid FAFSA FAFSA.

Speaker 1 So they just cut you a check and deposit it for $45,000?

Speaker 2 Well, not into my bank. It goes directly to my school.
And then they start paying it that way. So it's already given to my school, and my school just takes it out.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you're starting your master's and you just finance the whole thing. Well,

Speaker 1 Dave, I bet what's happened is I bet they have, you've been approved for the entire program.

Speaker 1 I bet they don't have a check for 40, I bet your university doesn't have a check for $45,000 because they wouldn't prepay like that because you could quit, you can drop out, it could be a whole thing.

Speaker 1 But my guess is you were approved for the program and the school gave you a letter that said you've qualified for $45,000 in federal aid and every semester you're going to have to re-up and re-up and re-up and re-up.

Speaker 1 Okay. That's my guess as to what happened.

Speaker 1 I've never heard the curve. So you're just starting your master's.

Speaker 1 Yes. And you're spending $45,000 to get a master's in social work to make what kind of money?

Speaker 2 Not enough. It's about $90,000,

Speaker 2 which would be salary, or yes, the salary for it.

Speaker 1 There's no way you'll make $90,000.

Speaker 2 That's the that is the

Speaker 2 salary in Florida for it.

Speaker 1 Where?

Speaker 2 Right now. I work at a hospital.

Speaker 1 And a starting social worker with LMSW makes $90,000?

Speaker 2 Not starting out, no, but I've been doing social work and case management and all that stuff for years. So with the experience, and once I get it, they're going, I'm already making $50,000

Speaker 2 right now, so they're bumping it up.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 That's extraordinary. Good for them because

Speaker 1 that's a field that needs more people that drastically is usually underpaid.

Speaker 1 As a guy who's I've taught graduate school and mental health programs, I've lived this world. What I would plead to you is to

Speaker 1 you make $50,000 a year. I would cut back for the next three years and cash flow this program.

Speaker 1 Please, please, please don't chain yourself to the federal government and then try to go into a serving profession.

Speaker 1 It's a recipe for burnout and you're gonna, it's just gonna melt you from the inside out. Please don't do this.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that was one of my big fears. It's just like, I just definitely don't want it lingering for so long too.

Speaker 1 And when it comes to money, I just don't feel that anxiety over it.

Speaker 1 The way it doesn't linger is you don't take it. Don't take it.
Don't take the check. Pay cash for your degree is what John's saying.

Speaker 1 $6,000 a semester, go pay it outright for the three semesters plus your 3,000 hours, whatever you're doing. Your hospital not got any financial matching for education? education?

Speaker 2 No, because I'm not a nurse. They only have it for nurses.
Okay.

Speaker 2 And what enticed me to it was because they said at first that they would. And then when I got here, they said, oh, sorry, no, it's just for nurses.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'd find another place to work, too, while you're at it.

Speaker 1 I'm serious. 100% serious.

Speaker 1 If they're going to lure you in and then they're going to bait and switch you,

Speaker 1 that's a company without integrity. I wouldn't work for them.

Speaker 2 Gotcha.

Speaker 1 And I know this is a radical shift, but I would go to the school and say, hey, I need my semester by semester cost.

Speaker 1 And they're probably going to tell you, well, it depends if you take six or nine hours, whatever, and say, what is a full-time and what is a part-time student going to cost?

Speaker 1 And then you make $50,000 a year until you find another job where you'll make $60,000.

Speaker 1 I want you to cash flow this way. So what we're trying to tell you is that uneasy feeling inside of you when you called is real.
It's right. And it's telling you, don't do this.

Speaker 1 And we're telling you, it's right. Don't do it.
The best way to get this degree is pay cash for it.

Speaker 1 and um you know look for someone maybe another maybe another employer that pays 90 when you're out but also uh will help with the education like this one promised but it was reneged on uh and so let's do a couple things here that are pretty radical but if you kind of just you you sound pretty chill and if you kind of just allow all this to happen to you it's going to step on your face Don't allow this to happen.

Speaker 1 You need to stand up, square your shoulders, and head straight into this with your teeth, you know, with a warrior yell, girl. I mean, you need to get after it.
John's in Jackson, Mississippi.

Speaker 1 Hey, John, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Hey, Dave, how's it going?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2 I have a question about getting an FBA loan to purchase a business. What's your thoughts on that is?

Speaker 1 Never.

Speaker 1 Never? Never under any circumstances. Okay.
It's a disaster.

Speaker 1 Why would you buy a business, a small business?

Speaker 2 Well, so I travel 10 months out of the year, and my wife stays at home with kids, and it's a taxing life. Yeah.
And we're trying to find a happy median for everybody.

Speaker 2 And we scumbled what we think is a good opportunity, per se. And we just

Speaker 2 making signs.

Speaker 1 Okay. And how much is the purchase?

Speaker 2 Approximately $1.2 million.

Speaker 2 Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 For a signed franchise?

Speaker 2 It's not a franchise. It's a person that started the business

Speaker 2 and he's looking to retire.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Let me give you a different way to skin this cat, maybe.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 80% of small businesses fail in the first five years.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 The number one cause of small business failure when we survey them, and we work with 10,000 small businesses in entree leadership right now, is what's called cash flow problems. Cash flow problems is

Speaker 1 a phrase that means a lot of things, but it primarily means two things. I can't pay my debt payments and I didn't pay my taxes on time and I get screwed by the federal government.

Speaker 1 And so you're going to have a million two floating around your neck trying to drag you down. while you're trying to run a business that this guy's already been running for a few years.

Speaker 1 And that's like trying to to swim with an anchor tied around your ankle uh it's a bad plan so let's go at this a different way what is the net profit on his business

Speaker 2 um he pays himself a salary but no what's the net profit on the business on average over the last uh four years is around 250.

Speaker 1 okay a million two is a little rich yeah okay we know that part of it we're just we're in the beginning process and we're trying to figure out here's how i have here's how I've taught some people who hand the business to the next generation and want to be bought out or they haven't to the employee or an employee or a buyer like you that want to be bought out.

Speaker 1 I don't want you to get payments on a million two and Fauci decide we're having another quarantine.

Speaker 1 Me neither. Okay, that'll put you into bankruptcy court, sir.

Speaker 1 It did a bunch of people. And because nobody making signs, they were making plexiglass, but they weren't making signs.

Speaker 1 So you were screwed if this was, if you had done this two years ago. So learn a lesson from that.

Speaker 1 Now, what you can do is agree to pay him 80 or 90% of the profits after you take a basic small salary out

Speaker 1 until he gets his million.

Speaker 1 And about a million is about what it's worth. But if you made $250,000 a year on it and you gave him 90% of it, you'd have him paid out in four and a half years.

Speaker 2 Versus getting a loan, per se.

Speaker 1 Exactly. And he'd get his money really, really fast that way.
But you're living on a wage

Speaker 1 till you get him off your back. But if profits go down, you're only committed to give him a percentage of profits.
So you're not bankrupt then. SBA will come take your house, dude.

Speaker 1 Dr. John Deloney Ramsey Personality is my co-host today.
Hey, guys, we would love your help. And if you'd like to help us, here's how you can.
Pretty simple.

Speaker 1 Doesn't cost you a thing, but a few moments of your time. Subscribe to this show.
When you're listening on podcast or YouTube, click the follow button or the subscribe button, whatever it is.

Speaker 1 Make sure you share the show. And that can be clicking a share button, or it could be that you clip the link and send it to somebody and say, hey, listen to this show.

Speaker 1 Make sure you leave a five-star review. Hit the likes.
All those kinds of things like that really help drive the algorithms that push the show to the front of the various platforms that we're on.

Speaker 1 And we're on almost everything.

Speaker 1 So, thank you for being there. We appreciate you.
We know that there's a bazillion of you new in the past six months based on our numbers and our data analytics and so forth. Thank you for showing up.

Speaker 1 We're glad you're here. But help us by sharing, subscribing, following, and leaving five-star reviews.
Justin is in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. Hey, Justin, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Hey, thank you, Dave and John. It is awesome to talk to y'all.
I'm excited.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. How can we help?

Speaker 2 So my wife and I are on baby step two and we're trying to get really gazelle intense to pay off our debt. And I wanted to see if you and Dr.

Speaker 2 John could speak to the physical and mental challenge of working 80 to 90 hours a week.

Speaker 2 On the physical side being like, you know, fatigue, lack of sleep, and on the mental side, you know, your mind just telling you to call it a day when you still need to grind out, you know, those last few hours to make a really good week.

Speaker 1 Why are you losing sleep? You have plenty of sleep time left.

Speaker 2 Well, I guess like, you know, a day you work 16 hours and you have, you know, an hour commute and, you know, eating

Speaker 2 and stuff like that. You make it, you know, five to six.
And on a longer day, you know, you make it four hours of sleep.

Speaker 1 I often see folks try to continue the life they were living before they went Gazelle Intense

Speaker 1 and they try to squeeze it in. Meaning, I used to watch all the shows.
Well, now I have to just watch my two,

Speaker 1 and there's an hour right there, or there's an hour and a half. And I want to go to every single little league game.

Speaker 1 Well, during Gazelle Intensity, you're going to probably have to miss some games because you got to work some shifts, and that's okay because you're playing a longer game. But I would wonder how much

Speaker 1 all in are you? Yeah,

Speaker 1 if there's some of that, and

Speaker 1 yeah, you check your actual time audit on where your actual hours are going.

Speaker 1 Number one.

Speaker 1 Then

Speaker 1 sleep is necessary.

Speaker 1 The second thing, though, is you're not asking yourself to do this long term. This is a short sprint.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 This is not sustainable for five years.

Speaker 1 And that's not what we're asking ourselves to do. And I got a feeling just in talking to you that you have done

Speaker 1 in the past, maybe in sports or something else, you've done something where you stretched yourself to a limit. And

Speaker 1 if you're a person who's done that, you've experienced any of us that have done that, physical or mental or otherwise, you never return to the same shape after that. That's the benefit of the stretch.

Speaker 2 Yes, sir, I have. God has really blessed me with a body that can handle a lot.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so, you know, once you've done a half marathon, you've done a marathon, you've done

Speaker 1 whatever

Speaker 1 thing is that pushed you physically and mentally or whatever, then

Speaker 1 it changes your level of confidence. It changes the way you're swagger, the way you look at the world after that, because you accomplish the goal and you break the tape and you go on through.

Speaker 1 So that's the way that I have done it.

Speaker 1 Number one, I look at it as a short-term play, and so it's not going to kill me. Because right before you die from hard work, you pass out.
Don't worry about it. I mean, it's okay.

Speaker 1 So it's not going to kill me. And

Speaker 1 it's short term. And then the second thing is, is that I'm going to get more benefits than just the money.
In this case, you're doing it to make a lot of money to get out of debt. Okay.

Speaker 1 But I'm going to get character benefits, emotional, psychological, spiritual benefits, even relational benefits, because as a couple, we now know we can do things we didn't know we could do before.

Speaker 1 As an individual, I now know I can do that.

Speaker 1 And it gives me a different level of, well, if I can do that, then I can do another thing. And if I can do that, then I can do another thing.

Speaker 1 And that's what this is versus being the typical fat American sitting on their couch watching Netflix and never stretches themselves at all.

Speaker 1 And Justin, there's some incredible neuroscience that is, obviously, this doesn't,

Speaker 1 you can't game or hack this system, but you've known people who get under a squat bar and they feel that weight and they get that weird smile.

Speaker 1 And there's been people who get under that bar and it's like, ah, too heavy. And they get off.
One of those those people says,

Speaker 1 this pain is going to be worth this.

Speaker 1 Watch this. And the other person says, I need to opt out of this pain right now.
And so there's, it's your mindset as you're driving home. You can be like, I'm so tired.
I hate all this.

Speaker 1 This is the worst. I'm so tired.
I just clicked another click. How long have you been married?

Speaker 2 We've been married five years.

Speaker 1 How's she doing with all this?

Speaker 2 That's interesting you ask that.

Speaker 2 One of the other kind of hard things for me is like, say that she has a day off and I'm at work.

Speaker 2 You know, when it's those last few hours when I still got, you know, four hours left and I'm already tired. And she sends me a text like, you know, I miss you.
Ready to see you.

Speaker 2 I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, man, I'm ready to see you too. I want to come home.
But I'm like, you know, I need to stay here another few hours.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's like, I know you lost 50 pounds, but here's some fresh baked cookies.

Speaker 1 But also, also, again, that's your mindset, bro, because she's reaching out saying, I want you to know I'm not at work with you, but I'm in this with you.

Speaker 1 Right. And it's real easy for you to be like, oh, yeah.
You know what I mean? So

Speaker 1 do your best to, I mean, you're all in a short sprint.

Speaker 1 Do your best to roll that out. So the good news is she's not, she's not whining about it.
She's not going, ha, ha, ha, ha, yeah. You never, you're never home with me.
Why aren't you ever home with me?

Speaker 1 She's not doing that to you. She's just saying, man, I miss you.
I wish you were here. Because

Speaker 1 I'm married to a country girl that's a hillbilly. And

Speaker 1 if they learned one thing at her house growing up, it was unbelievable hard hard work. She has no patience for people that won't work hard, especially if it was her husband.
And so I got the opposite.

Speaker 1 I'm like, get your butt out of here and get this mess cleaned up. What's wrong with you?

Speaker 1 You know, and so it was, she kicked me out the door, you know, and so occasionally now when I don't need to work, she's like, would you go to work and get away? You know, it's like, and so,

Speaker 1 you know, so the,

Speaker 1 but she, but that, so I had the benefit of a spouse that was

Speaker 1 beyond supportive. Supportive Supportive is not the correct term.
She supported you with her foot.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's it. But I mean, you know, in your case, you've got a sweet one that's being sweet and saying, I miss you, but I'm proud of you.
So you might even tell her that.

Speaker 1 Just go, hey, listen, when you do that, it makes me not angry with you, but it makes me angry with this whole situation. It makes it hard to work five more hours.

Speaker 1 So if you would do that and just add to the end of it, I'm proud of you. You got this.
It sure would help me.

Speaker 1 When my wife was pregnant with Josephine after

Speaker 1 we had had Hank, she gave me a list. It was not a long list, but it was a short list, but she gave me a list of questions I was not allowed to ask in the hospital when she was in labor.

Speaker 1 And I said, why did you do this? And she said, because I know you love me. And I know you're going to ask, how are you feeling? Does that hurt? Are you okay? Do you need anything?

Speaker 1 And she said, when you ask those questions, it makes me want to strangle you. I want to set my eyeballs on fire just so I don't have to look at your face.
Your eyeballs on fire. Right.
So she said,

Speaker 1 The best way you can love me is don't do this. I'll let you know if I need some.
And so I think for you, just like Dave just said, if you let her know, hey, when you reach out,

Speaker 1 man, I know you're telling me that you're proud of me and you love me, but it just makes me hate being at work, which makes me hate myself and makes me hate all this.

Speaker 1 Can you just text me and say, I'm so proud of you? And I'll know that you miss me.

Speaker 1 When you're running the stadium stairs,

Speaker 1 you have no memory of doing that when you look at the scoreboard at the end of the Super Bowl and you won. Or you make that catch, yeah.
You have no memory of running the stadium stairs.

Speaker 1 Your brain allows you to do only the celebration. Justin, you're a stud, man.
I'm proud of you. And I think you're going to be okay.

Speaker 1 The good news is you're smart enough to talk about it and say, I'm tired. You're smart enough to even take a look.
Okay, I got to take a day. I'm done.
I got to take at least a day. I can't breathe.

Speaker 1 You know where your limits are, but pushing those limits is not a permanent thing. It's not a way of life.
It's a moment in time.

Speaker 1 And the benefits are going to exceed the pain. I can promise you.
Live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else

Speaker 1 so uh our producer james went through the archives and a thousand years ago when blake thompson was producing this show he actually did a comedy bit on detanol uh john thought i made that up just a few minutes ago and i couldn't take credit for it because actually blake made it up and james found the old comedy bit do you have any does it have a date on it

Speaker 1 it doesn't but i i would It's got to be 20 plus years.

Speaker 1 It's over 20 years ago. Easy.
It was before there was color on TV, wasn't it?

Speaker 1 All right. Here's from over 20 years ago, what the Ramsey show,

Speaker 1 then called the Dave Ramsey Show, might have sounded like.

Speaker 3 Nationally syndicated talk radio host Dave Ramsey has often said that there is no magic pill for getting out of debt.

Speaker 1 Well, sorry, Mr.

Speaker 3 Ramsey, but there is.

Speaker 1 And it's called detanol.

Speaker 3 Detanol is a 100% all-natural drug that is guaranteed to control your spending and control your desire to overspend. One pill a day, and you will no longer feel the need to spend money you don't have.

Speaker 3 We have created this drug because we care about you.

Speaker 1 Detanol, the pill that cares. Minor side effects may include fatigue,

Speaker 1 headache,

Speaker 1 nervousness, sore throat, explosive diarrhea,

Speaker 1 insomnia, I can't sleep, drowsiness, I can't stay away.

Speaker 1 Horrible nightmares. Oh, gastronomical trauma.
Oh, my. Hallucinations.
That rap. Rabbit just said my name.
Chronic kalitosis. Woo! A slight cough, and a runny nose.
Dentanol.

Speaker 3 Brought to you by the Credit Card Association of America.

Speaker 1 Credit. The easy way.
Oh, the show used to be so good, Dave. What happened?

Speaker 1 Well, we brought on co-hosts.

Speaker 1 Co-host.

Speaker 1 Got rid of Blake.

Speaker 1 Got rid of Blake. The good old days.
used to walk uphill both ways. Always in the snow.
Yeah, that was probably done on a cassette tape, actually. I'm trying to think.
I know

Speaker 1 the voice on the disclaimer is Blake. The other voice, I think, was Bill Hampton.
Is Bill Hampton? Is it? Okay. So, yeah, that's

Speaker 1 it's over 20 years then. Yeah, it may be 25 years old.
Yeah, that's funny. I don't care who you are.
Still works, though. Timeless.

Speaker 1 Timeless. All right.

Speaker 1 We'll have five orders on the Ramsey

Speaker 1 Solutions.com. So we'll ask for

Speaker 1 a pale, you guys were advertising. Jordan is in Los Angeles.
Hi, Jordan. How are you?

Speaker 2 I'm doing well, Dave. Thank you.
How are you doing?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so I just have a couple of questions because I'm in just like a constant financial panic, anxiety, worry. A lot of it stemming from the environment outside of me.

Speaker 2 I can go into numbers with everything from personally in a bit. I'll give give you a little background.
So

Speaker 2 I did have a lot of early success in my late teens, early 20s.

Speaker 1 I'm now 27

Speaker 2 within the entertainment industry and also just working my butt off. I've always been a good saver.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 unfortunately, COVID hit, which shut down

Speaker 2 my little role I had going on. And then also at the same time, I came down with a pretty severe, debilitating

Speaker 2 underlying disease of Cushing's disease, lupus, and rheumatoid arthritis that has developed throughout the years. So

Speaker 2 all of that has just led me to think that what is my future going to look like? Because it's very hard for me to do physical labor. My work right now is pretty limited.

Speaker 2 And I've just been stuck in this rut of I don't want to.

Speaker 2 I'm anxious to, when I have to spend something as small as like putting 20 bucks in for gas all the way up to my rent, I'm just living in this fear and panic for my future.

Speaker 2 And I've been trying to think of an income stream because of my ailments. It makes it very difficult.
And I've always been stuck going, so that's what's frustrating because my body is holding me back.

Speaker 2 I have like that entrepreneur mindset, but I just don't know what it is for me.

Speaker 1 How do you think we can best help you today, son?

Speaker 2 I don't know how to manage what to do with the money I currently have.

Speaker 1 How much money do you currently have?

Speaker 2 So I have, I'm incorporated. I incorporated when I was younger after I got a pretty nice job.

Speaker 2 I have a,

Speaker 2 in my business checking right now, I have about 24,500. I opened up a business CD, which has about 92,000 in there.
I have a checking account of 8,000 right now. I have a savings account of $52,500.

Speaker 2 I have a checking CD of $40,600.

Speaker 2 I was in a mutual fund when I was younger and there was some issues with the the accountant who was advising it and so those got liquidated and during my time when I was young I just watched a bunch of videos and of course I bought a bunch of precious metals with a lot of that

Speaker 1 how much is that

Speaker 2 I have about 40 ounces of gold and 900 ounces of silver, which I believe right now is close to $100,000 total.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you've got about $400,000. Are you making any money?

Speaker 2 Currently, and I do also have, I opened up a Robo Advisor in Schwab recently because I just felt like I was just doing nothing with my money.

Speaker 1 Do you have a house, man? Where do you live?

Speaker 2 I live in Los Angeles. I'm still renting.

Speaker 1 Do you have an income?

Speaker 2 At the moment, I do not. I'm in SAG.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah.
Nobody's working, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I would be willing to bet, just friend to friend.

Speaker 1 You struggle with anxiety when you were younger, right?

Speaker 2 It started in my late teens, yes.

Speaker 1 What's the first time you remember that that your body kind of took off on you and it scared you?

Speaker 2 In terms of my health or my anxiety?

Speaker 1 Both. Because they work together.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well,

Speaker 2 about

Speaker 2 20 years, 19, 19 years old, my anxiety took off.

Speaker 2 My health ailments kicked in a couple years later.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And that's, and, and, and, again, I don't want to get over my skis here.

Speaker 1 And this, this, we could talk for hours on it, but a autoimmune body is a body that is so redlined out that it's been trying to shut you down for a long time, and it will find another way to shut you down, right?

Speaker 1 Because it's, it's tired of, it's tired of fighting and swinging and running from everything.

Speaker 1 And that's what you just described, right? And when you struggle with anxiety as a younger kid, it sometimes looks different than it does when you're an adult.

Speaker 1 But then when you take that angst and then you go put it up on a stage or on a screen and all those voices telling you how to look and what to stand and what you shouldn't do and where you should go, man, that's just a

Speaker 1 that's like taking a blender and putting it inside of a, you know, a jet engine, right? And spinning that sucker up.

Speaker 1 And it doesn't surprise me, A, that you've been very, very successful because you're clearly brilliant and you have been able to keep some of the anxiety demons at bay through achievement and accomplishment in Attaboys.

Speaker 1 And it also doesn't surprise me that your body said, I'm shutting you up. I'm shutting you down.
They caught up with you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Does that sound familiar?

Speaker 2 Oh, very, it's very frustrating because, again,

Speaker 2 I will work and do whatever I have to do.

Speaker 1 Here's what's important. I don't think you're afraid of work.
Yeah, no, you work. Dave's going to talk to you about the money.

Speaker 1 I want you to know that if, Dave, if you follow Dave's steps and clean up all your money and that's all you do,

Speaker 1 you're going to go with you on that journey.

Speaker 1 And you're going to have cleaned up money and you're going to have an ounce of security there.

Speaker 1 And then your brain's going to leapfrog to the next thing. And you know that, right? Because it's been leapfrogging on you for years.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 while you've been an incredible income earner and it's apparent that you've done something that

Speaker 1 had incredible talent because people paid you a lot of money for it,

Speaker 1 so

Speaker 1 what you'd never had in any of these situations is a sense of control.

Speaker 1 You didn't feel like you're, you felt like, even though you had a big old pile of money, you still didn't feel like it was all in control. And it still today doesn't feel like it's in control.

Speaker 1 So I think there's probably a two-pronged approach here, and that would be, you called on the perfect day with Dr. John Deloney here, is

Speaker 1 you getting a sense of control in your life, a sense of the chaos pushed back, and you choosing to set up really firm boundaries with a whole bunch of things and say, this is what I do, this is what I don't do, this is what I do, this is what I don't do, and you've got some very clear kind of a black and white type response to everything

Speaker 1 because your

Speaker 1 creative brain allows you to work out about 73 scenarios simultaneously instead of yes or no.

Speaker 1 And you just need to get real simplified and go to yes or no. And so, no, we don't do precious metals.
Let's go ahead and cash those out and get those into cash. No,

Speaker 1 we don't walk around with no income. So let's try to figure out something we can put our hand to.

Speaker 1 Yes, we're going to send you a book called Own Your Past, Change Your Future from Dr. John Deloney.
Read through that because there's a whole lot of what's going on in that book is going on with you.

Speaker 1 We'll send him Building on Anxious Life too. I think that would be a good book for him.
Can we get it out of here? Yeah. Okay, good.
Let's send them both of those.

Speaker 1 And throw in a total money makeover book. We'll help you with the money part too.
But it's controlling the controllables that's going to get this moving. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people

Speaker 1 build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr.
John Deloney, number one best-selling author, host of the Dr.

Speaker 1 John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks, one of the more popular YouTube and podcasts in America today. He's my co-host, Open Phones at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Jennifer is with us in San Antonio, Texas. Hi, Jennifer.
Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 2 Hi, thanks for speaking with me today. Sure.

Speaker 2 I really appreciate it. As I love you, Dave, but I think my question is probably a little more for John, so not to like hurt your ego or anything.

Speaker 1 But I have

Speaker 1 two PhDs. I just have one, and mine is in

Speaker 1 his ego. Trust me, it's doing just just fine.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 2 sorry, sorry, my bad. I just, I was like, I never thought I'd call Dave Ramsey show and then not want to like totally focus on Dave Ramsey and Papa Dave.

Speaker 1 You're so sweet. You're awesome.
Personally, you're sweet. How can we help? Papa Day.
I'll be okay. How can John help? What's up?

Speaker 2 I'm calling because,

Speaker 2 so I had a bankruptcy in 2021, and, you know, I'm debt-free. And, well, I'm debt-free after, you know, paying the KGB, I mean, IRS.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 then I was one of the very few that had their public service.

Speaker 2 You know, I worked for the federal government and I was one of the very few that had their loans forgiven. I worked for the federal government for 13 years, and I feel like a lot of shame.

Speaker 2 I feel ashamed about the bankruptcy, but then I also feel a lot of shame about the public service

Speaker 2 forgiveness in a way, because like, I mean, I took advantage of the program that was available to me, and I like,

Speaker 2 I'm proud of serving the government so long, but I guess I feel a little, I don't know.

Speaker 2 I tell people not to like count on it all the time, and that there's, you know, all the data shows that very few people are ever going to have it happen to them and don't want them to count on it.

Speaker 2 You know, I just happen to be in that window where it worked for me. And so it's like I won the lottery, but I'm like ashamed that I won it a little bit.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I feel a lot of shame. Jennifer, I'm actually going to change direction a little bit.
Is that okay? Okay, sure.

Speaker 1 When it comes to shame, I can talk about it all day long.

Speaker 1 But lucky for you,

Speaker 1 you called a number where there's more than just academic answers.

Speaker 1 I actually think the person you talk to is Dave. He's been there.

Speaker 2 Okay, well, see, I have what is, what do I know?

Speaker 2 The guy with the PhD doesn't know.

Speaker 1 I can talk about it, but Dave can talk from a lived experience, which is much more valuable. So what caused your bankruptcy?

Speaker 2 I made good money, but

Speaker 2 I have a

Speaker 2 disability, and

Speaker 2 I was

Speaker 2 only going to work like two weeks, a month. After my brother died, the disability became so extreme.
All these medical issues had come up. So even though I was following the Dave Ramsey plan, like

Speaker 1 what's the nature of your disability, honey?

Speaker 2 I have major depressive disorder. And after my brother died, I became like suicidal.
And it was real extreme. And so

Speaker 1 you had

Speaker 1 debts that you couldn't pay because of that.

Speaker 2 Yes, I was making bare minimum payments. And then I went to the bishop to even get help.

Speaker 2 So for a year, about 18 months, the bishop and I literally sat down at my church like every month, like, how can we dig you out of this hole?

Speaker 2 But the medical bills were still so high that I still couldn't

Speaker 2 even though I had this big shovel the medical bills just kept coming and then I couldn't I was really struggling to work over and over hey do me do me a favor Jennifer will you take a real real real deep breath as deep as you can

Speaker 1 take it super deep and I want you to hold it for three

Speaker 1 two

Speaker 1 exhale

Speaker 1 There's a lot of people in the world that are giving you a lot of advice and running their mouth and telling you you should be doing this. And Dave and I are not going to do that.

Speaker 1 We're sitting here with you, okay?

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 You don't have to, I can hear you trying to outrun the shame in a circle right on the phone with us. You don't have to do that.
Okay. Okay.

Speaker 1 Here's the thing. We're with you.
When I filed bankruptcy at 28 years old, the reason for my bankruptcy was I

Speaker 1 had borrowed too much money.

Speaker 1 I had borrowed it in such a way that it allowed the banks banks to come and take my freaking head off.

Speaker 1 Yes. It was my fault.
I don't think

Speaker 1 a person who has

Speaker 1 issues with depression, becoming depressed after the loss of their brother, is something you did wrong.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 my actions were shameful. Your actions were not shameful.

Speaker 2 Well, I feel like the debt actions were shameful that I put myself in such a bad position.

Speaker 1 You were vulnerable

Speaker 1 because of that, but you probably would have made it without bankruptcy if you hadn't been unable to work for a period of time.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the bishop said that actually when we sat down. I mean, every month he's like, if you weren't so sick now, I think we could help you.

Speaker 2 Like he was helping me even with rent, you know, but at one point he said, you know, tithing and the, you know, because we're stewards of the Lord's money, you know, he's like, this is a hand up, not a hammock, gives all.

Speaker 2 But every month, I see that you're putting everything you can

Speaker 2 into pain.

Speaker 2 I think this might be our only thing.

Speaker 1 Okay, so let me ask you this.

Speaker 1 Obviously, the loss of your brother, that tragedy is in the rearview mirror. Are you doing things to deal with the depression issues? Yes, I see.

Speaker 1 So what I did in my case was

Speaker 1 I did something, some things to deal with my stupidity.

Speaker 1 And so I'm not going to make the same mistakes again.

Speaker 1 And therefore, I don't have to sit and be wringing my hands about the shame of the bankruptcy. The bankruptcy, in my case, was caused by me.

Speaker 1 So there was shame. It was shame-inducing for sure.
Okay.

Speaker 1 But the way I dealt with it, to answer your question, was

Speaker 1 I said, okay,

Speaker 1 what steps do I have to take to be a different person that causes this to never happen again?

Speaker 1 If I take those steps, then the things in my rearview mirror, it's just one of the many stupid things I've done in my life that I don't have to do again.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And Jennifer, can we agree that sometimes you feel things and those feelings aren't true?

Speaker 1 Yes. Okay.
That is true. I know that to be true.

Speaker 1 I know, but listen.

Speaker 2 Well, not all the time, but it does come up.

Speaker 1 Here's what you're going to do. I want you to keep a journal with you of the things you feel.

Speaker 1 When you feel like you're taking advantage of folks and you feel like you should have, I want you to write that down. And I want you to hold hold it at arm's length and ask yourself, is this true?

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 And I want you to be objective about it.

Speaker 1 If you can't be objective, take it to your counselor

Speaker 1 and say, is this true? Because the answer is going to be no. But when you have a feeling and you begin to believe that feeling, then your body's off to the races.
Yeah. Zero shame.
Zero.

Speaker 1 For the student loan forgiveness. No.
And the shame on the any part you had with irresponsibility, you say, I'm not doing that anymore.

Speaker 1 Any part you had with taking on too much debt, I'm not doing that anymore. But the depression taking you away from work, I'm not blaming you for that one, kiddo.

Speaker 1 That one's in your rearview mirror, too, though. The beautiful thing about life is the rearview mirror is smaller than the windshield.
That's called grace. Walk in that, kiddo.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Dr. John Deloney Ramsey Personality is my co-host today.
Thanks for being with us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 Thanks for being here. Hey, based on our rankings, we're in the top 10 podcasts in the entire world, top 15 podcasts in the entire world,

Speaker 1 and that has gone up recently.

Speaker 1 Based on our ratings on radio,

Speaker 1 based on our Spotify and our Apple numbers and our YouTube numbers, there's a whole bunch of you that are new. Thank you.
We're honored to have you in our audience.

Speaker 1 We will love you and we will tell you the truth. And sometimes that will make you mad.
Just be prepared because we love you and we will tell you the truth. That's what we do.

Speaker 1 And if you want to help us, we're not going to spend 300 million on marketing like so-by. We're not buying

Speaker 1 a football stadium or something.

Speaker 1 Allergies are bad this time of year. And,

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 1 if you want to help us, you can subscribe, follow the show, whatever it is, whichever way you do it. Click the subscribe button, click the follow button, click the share button, and send it on.

Speaker 1 Send it on, yeah. Send it on to them.
And good stuff.

Speaker 1 Let people know about it. Leave us a five-star review.

Speaker 1 Mama said, if you hang anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. So five-stars work.
Thank you very much. We're glad you're here.
We appreciate you being with us.

Speaker 1 Williams in San Antonio, Texas. Remember the Alamo.
What's up, William?

Speaker 2 Oh, good afternoon, Dave.

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 2 had a rather unfortunate financial incident in our marriage.

Speaker 2 Happened last fall. My wife

Speaker 2 got victimized in an internet fraud.

Speaker 2 and not only lost a sizable amount of cash, but also took out some loans to help these

Speaker 2 people

Speaker 2 and some of those were short-term credit card things like buying gift cards

Speaker 2 and then there were two installment loans

Speaker 2 one was for twenty three thousand five hundred

Speaker 2 one was for seventeen thousand five hundred

Speaker 2 the rest of them the smaller credit cards and such i'm using the snowball method to take care of of those, but I need advice on the installment loans.

Speaker 1 When it comes to this

Speaker 1 fraud, it's usually one of two things. Usually, it's some sort of

Speaker 1 romantic interest, or it's some sort of somebody crying out for help with medical assistance or some sort of injustice. What is it

Speaker 1 in your situation?

Speaker 2 It would be the former.

Speaker 2 My wife and I have

Speaker 2 been having some

Speaker 2 problems, been together for 25 years,

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 things just kind of,

Speaker 2 I don't know, they happened and I didn't see the warning signs.

Speaker 1 How's your marriage now?

Speaker 2 It's much better.

Speaker 2 I've been getting therapy, and she has been, too, and we've been making some inroads and just

Speaker 2 basic stuff like how we speak to each other and I'm proud of you man.

Speaker 1 That's hard.

Speaker 2 Well, here's the thing. I have a bunch of people tell me

Speaker 2 well, I would I would divorce somebody that would do that and I'm not gonna throw away 25 years.

Speaker 2 I said I would make a full year as a concerted effort to get this thing turned around financially and emotionally. And part of the emotional thing is me.
I realized I needed to do

Speaker 2 some work, and so we're both doing therapy, and it seems to be benefiting.

Speaker 1 Well, you're a beacon of light for men who

Speaker 1 find themselves in emotional situations without the right tools in the toolkit. And you can do one of two things.
You can just take up your toolkit and go home, or you can...

Speaker 1 You can storm the gates of hell and try to find more tools. And that's what you're doing, man.
I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you.
Amen.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 1 It's awesome. What's your household income, sir?

Speaker 2 $69,000.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Does she work outside the home?

Speaker 2 No, we're both in our mid-70s. No, we're both retired.

Speaker 1 Oh, boy.

Speaker 2 So there's money there to take care of the short-term stuff.

Speaker 1 What do you mean, money? You have a nest egg?

Speaker 2 We still have some resources, a 401k, and

Speaker 2 I have some money in my account. All the debts are in her name.

Speaker 1 How much money is in your account?

Speaker 2 $45,000.

Speaker 1 And how much money is in your 401k?

Speaker 2 About the same.

Speaker 1 I'm not counting these two installment loans. How much miscellaneous is there?

Speaker 1 The little credit card mosquitoes.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm going to say $9,000, $10,000.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 2 I've got an income tax refund check coming in that $2,000 is going to get knocked off for that.

Speaker 1 I would write a check out of yours today and pay off all the credit cards. That leaves the 40 and close all the accounts.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 that is a gesture on your part towards the healing that you're searching for.

Speaker 1 The 40 is still sitting there. We'll come back to that in a minute.
Then I want to meet with her and her therapist and your therapist and however y'all are doing this marriage stuff.

Speaker 1 And somehow you've got to get some checks and balances and start to incrementally rebuild trust that you're not throwing good money after bad and this doesn't happen again.

Speaker 1 Because in the back of your mind, if I clean this out and this happens again, I ain't got anywhere to go. That's what's happening in the back of your mind.

Speaker 1 So you've got to know that this is solid going forward before you write any more big checks.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 $9,000 in the scope of your life, you would pay that right now for healing.

Speaker 1 And I would. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Let's get rid of all the mosquitoes. Get it down to 17, 5, and 23, 5.

Speaker 1 And then let's just sit there with those two while we work on this relationship.

Speaker 1 And as your trust reaches closer to 100%, and that is going to require some demonstrations as well as on her part and your part, and healing, and some time to rebuild.

Speaker 1 And as that is rebuilt and you approach 100% on that, then I'm going to start trying to figure out a way to get those paid off.

Speaker 1 But right now, I want to clear the white noise, the clutter out of my mind with all these little bills that, because every time you write a check on this, it picks the scab.

Speaker 1 It opens the wound.

Speaker 1 And I'm trying to get it down to writing just two checks.

Speaker 2 That's very perceptive. You're right.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I get pissed off all over again every time you do this. And you have to go through the whole process you've been doing in therapy, start forgiveness again.

Speaker 1 You start to have to go back through the whole thing. And you just start having all these conversations between your ears.
We all do this. That's how I know.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't be guilty of it. No, not me.
But yeah. But I mean, yeah, you write checks for things

Speaker 1 that remind you of bad things. It's bad.
So, Dave, at what point

Speaker 1 does, and again, in service of choosing reality, just owning, this is where we find ourselves, do two people in their 70s have to commit to going back to work for a year and earn another $40,000 to pay these debts on?

Speaker 1 If she's of good health,

Speaker 1 I mean, I would talk to her therapist about this. I'm not going to intervene in that, but if she's of good health,

Speaker 1 she's trying to reearn trust.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 you know, I'm 12-stepping here, but,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 make good, make amends.

Speaker 1 I think she goes back to work. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And starts working on these other two loans.

Speaker 1 I think that's not because of financial but just i think that's a representative movement towards owning this it will give a place for that energy too you know you know make amends it is a 12-step thing and so you got to go back and where you can correct the wrongs it's part of being repentant or sorry you know and nobody wants to work in their 70s and that's where we find ourselves right and nobody wants to get scammed by a romance on the internet but it's where we find ourselves this is the ramsey show

Speaker 1 Thank you for joining us, America. Dr.
John Deloney, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YReFi.

Speaker 1 Student loan debt is a swamp of thousands of people

Speaker 1 and they find it hard to escape. So don't be another statistic in the student loan swamp.
For distressed private student loans, there's YReFi.

Speaker 1 We trust YReFi because they help you with a low fixed rate interest rate that you couldn't get anywhere else. Nobody else will touch this stuff.

Speaker 1 And they'll help you put together a budget you can actually do and get out of debt. So learn more at yrefi.com slash Ramsey.

Speaker 1 That's the letter Y R E F Y dot com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. All right, today's question comes from Marissa in Alabama.

Speaker 1 Marissa asks, how do you tell the difference between having the talent of compassion or discernment and the compulsion to help as a trauma response.

Speaker 1 Is it possible that a quote-unquote talent may have developed as a survival mechanism and another talent not developed well due to trauma?

Speaker 1 I mean, my gut reaction here is it doesn't matter. It's an academic exercise.

Speaker 1 If you are helping other people to the point that you can't eat or stay whole, or you

Speaker 1 are in an abusive relationship in order to keep other people from getting mad at you, then that's not healthy.

Speaker 1 I often say that the skills people learn when they're kids to survive can become some of the greatest skills professionally for them.

Speaker 1 But if

Speaker 1 all it says doesn't matter. I don't think it matters.

Speaker 1 Am I missing the question, Dave?

Speaker 1 No, it feels like there's kind of two possible feelings for me. I mean, one is

Speaker 1 I don't trust a guy that doesn't walk with a limp. Correct.
So

Speaker 1 if you got it all together and you're perfect, you're full of crap. You scare me.
If you survived? Yeah. But I went through bankruptcy.

Speaker 1 I lost everything because I was stupid, which informs my ability to do this. Right.

Speaker 1 But I'm not doing it as

Speaker 1 a healing mechanism to get over my past trauma. I'm utilizing that experience to give insight to the future.
That's That's a healthy way to do it. Yes, I guess.

Speaker 1 I guess you're doing it as a coping mechanism. Or you can be a parasite.
You can be a vampire using other people so that you feel better.

Speaker 1 That's a coping mechanism.

Speaker 1 You're not healed. Correct.
Absolutely. But so if the trauma, the damage from the trauma, the wound,

Speaker 1 is what's driving this, I think that's a problem, isn't it? Yeah, and that's one of my rules is I don't talk about things.

Speaker 1 You shouldn't be in the business of trying to sell things or help other people with open wounds. Right.

Speaker 1 And how how do you know the wound's still open? Can you talk about what happened and your heart rate doesn't take off as though it's happening in real time? That's how you know.

Speaker 1 Can you talk about your mom passing away from an ugly three-year bout of cancer and you're not overwhelmed with emotion?

Speaker 1 You might still be sad, you might still feel heavy, but you can have the conversation. That's how you know.

Speaker 1 If you're overwhelmed with emotion, you're not in a position to help somebody still have chaos. That's right.

Speaker 1 Dr. Young used to teach us: don't bring your chaos to other people's hurting situations.
So,

Speaker 1 but here's the thing: If you're good at a thing

Speaker 1 because

Speaker 1 you've got a scar that's healed, God bless you. Use it.
Get out there, man.

Speaker 1 A scar that's healed is the trick. There you go.
I think. Yes.
And I might be wrong, but I... No, you're 100%.

Speaker 1 And that doesn't mean,

Speaker 1 I mean, I still think it's okay for people to criticize me and say, how can you possibly give financial advice? You're the guy that went bankrupt.

Speaker 1 And I get it.

Speaker 1 I get that. But I do have insight because of that that someone who's never been bankrupt doesn't have.
Right. So

Speaker 1 here's another way to look at this. So let's say you're a child raised in the home of two alcoholics, people who struggle with alcohol.
Adult child of an alcoholic.

Speaker 1 And you learned how to get really small and to make sure the people around you

Speaker 1 were okay.

Speaker 1 And you just learned that. Is it okay to then go into a job where you are a head of hospitality somewhere, where your job is to disappear and to help other people have a great experience?

Speaker 1 No, it's not a bad thing.

Speaker 1 If you're doing it out of a compulsion because you have to, like you were talking about earlier, then it's not healthy because you're never going to become a whole because you're always going to be looking for healing out there.

Speaker 1 But yes, if you have some talents that you learned while trying to stay safe and survive, that's amazing. That's like our friends who go over and they are

Speaker 1 Navy SEALs and they come back and they walk with business leaders who are going through challenging times and how to communicate under stress. And that's fantastic.

Speaker 1 You learn new talents under duress, and now you're using those to help the rest of us. That's amazing.

Speaker 1 So if she says the phrase, the compulsion to help as a trauma response,

Speaker 1 would that be functioning out of the wound and not out of a healed wound? Absolutely, yes. Okay.
Yes. So

Speaker 1 if you feel like it's a compulsion to help out of a trauma response, then it's wrong. But if you got discernment and compassion because of trauma, that's a healed wound and that's a scar.

Speaker 1 Here's the difference. I have to versus I get to.

Speaker 1 Compulsion. If I have to,

Speaker 1 like when someone calls and says, hey, can you come serve at this local church thing? You're like, I've got to do this.

Speaker 1 That's not a good, that's not a good thing. That's childhood nonsense.
If you are, you say, you know what, I get to go help over there. That's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 Then that's a gift. Then I would say you're well, go get it.
Go get it done. That's interesting.
I like that. Great question.
Very interesting question.

Speaker 1 You know what?

Speaker 1 The other thing about a question like that I always think of is old Bible teacher used to tell me,

Speaker 1 you know, probably if you ask that question, you don't have a problem. Right.
Or you recognize the problem and now you have a path to healing. Yeah, but I mean,

Speaker 1 you're seeing things at a proper angle.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but and I'll tell you, my initial with that question was, I just think the modern mental health ecosystem universe, whatever, wants us to second guess and deep dive and yada yada on every single thing.

Speaker 1 And I think there is so much research coming out saying go do the next right thing. It's a lot of navel gazing.
Go do the next right thing.

Speaker 1 And if you can help people based on what happened to your kid, man,

Speaker 1 that's the gospel, right? That's restoration. That's all things made new.
Go use what happened for good if you're healed. Yes.

Speaker 1 Or if you're, you know, doing it out of a healed place. That's right.
You know, so forth. So good.
Phone number here is triple eight eight two five five two two five. David is in Grand Rapids.

Speaker 1 Hi, David. How are you?

Speaker 2 Hi, I'm doing great. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 Sure. What's up? Well,

Speaker 2 my wife and I, we've always refused to go into debt for anything other than a mortgage.

Speaker 1 Good.

Speaker 2 This last week, we just paid off our house. We did a 15-year mortgage, paid it off in four years, four months.

Speaker 1 You're amazing. Longstreet?

Speaker 1 Thank you. How old are you?

Speaker 1 I'm 33. What's the house worth?

Speaker 2 It's about 390 right now.

Speaker 1 Way to go. How much in your nest egg, in your 401ks and stuff?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so our rough IRAs, between the two of us, we've got about $366,000.

Speaker 1 Dude, you're going to be a millionaire when you're 35. Way to go.

Speaker 2 That's the goal. Then we have mutual funds also.
That's about $118,000.

Speaker 1 $118,000. Wow, good.
Good for you.

Speaker 2 Our total annual income between the two of us is approximately $120,000.

Speaker 2 The question I have, long story short, my in-laws own some hunting property. My father-in-law passed away this past May.
My mother-in-law is ready to sell the property.

Speaker 2 She wants to keep it in the family if possible. We would love to buy it.

Speaker 2 She's willing to sell it to us for $122,000, and she's willing to do a 0% land contract.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 And the terms are...

Speaker 1 Absolutely not.

Speaker 1 You have the money. Write her a check.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Cash out your mutual fund.

Speaker 2 Cash out mutual funds is what she recommends.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 You don't want to be in debt to your mother-in-law. It changes the way Thanksgiving dinner tastes.

Speaker 1 I'm not kidding. Borrower slave to the lender.
The air in the room changes when you sit down with your master.

Speaker 1 Right. Don't do it.
You know how free you felt when you paid off that mortgage?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Don't screw that up. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Especially

Speaker 1 on a hierarchy. I'd rather owe a bank than my mother-in-law.
My mother-in-law is awesome, but man. Yeah, this is

Speaker 1 bad juju right here. Yeah, and you got the money.

Speaker 2 Would it be dumb of me to buy the property? Or what should I do?

Speaker 1 No, you got the money. I would.
I'd buy it. For 100 grand, you got 180 in your mutual fund.
How big is the property?

Speaker 2 It's about 55 acres.

Speaker 1 I mean, if the value is right, I don't think it's a problem.

Speaker 1 But pay cash for it or don't do it. If you can't pay cash for it, don't do it.
And never do a land contract.

Speaker 1 You'll get screwed over six ways from sunday on that oh i could do a whole segment on land contracts this is the ramsey show

Speaker 1 for those of you on youtube and on podcasts this will be our last segment for the day you can pick up the other segment that we're going to do uh on the Ramsey network app and you can join it for free just go to ramsey solutions or go to download the network app on Apple or Google Play or whatever and you can join it free and you listen to all the whole show or you can listen to the last segment, whatever you want to do.

Speaker 1 It's all there for free. From the Ramsey Network app, you can also enter questions.
This question comes from the Ramsey Network app.

Speaker 1 To ask a question without ever having to call in, you can click the link in the show notes or download the app for free. Once you're in the app, you can navigate to the Ramsey show,

Speaker 1 click ask a question, and submit your question for the show. All right, the question is from Brianna.

Speaker 1 It says, I was one month from my lease being up and I had to leave early due to a domestic violence incident.

Speaker 1 I notified the property management company and sent them the email with proof of the protection order. But just the other day, I went to check my credit and they put a $4,000 debt into collections.

Speaker 1 I'm appealing it, but if that doesn't work, should I just pay it?

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 What happened to you is wrong and horrible, but it does not release you from a lease.

Speaker 1 A protection order does not get you out of a lease.

Speaker 1 You're appealing to their mercy at that point. Yeah.
If they want to let you out,

Speaker 1 if you were one of my tenants, I would let you out. But you can't just send them the email and go, I'm out.
It's not a get out of jail free card. No pun intended.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 you are liable. for that last month.
I don't know how it got to $4,000 for one month. You had one month left on the lease and now they're going to $4,000.
I'm not sure what the flip were you renting.

Speaker 1 Or they added a bunch of fees

Speaker 1 or something or maybe the Bozo stayed behind and torched the place. I don't know.
I don't know what happened here, but you are still liable.

Speaker 1 Even though you had a protection order, even though you sent an email. That does not, this is not a one-way thing where you just go, oh, I'm out.

Speaker 1 No, you're not out unless they choose to let you out and they didn't respond. You don't have a response from them, or at least you didn't mention it if you do, saying we're going to let you go.

Speaker 1 If you've got that response, then you owe zero because they said we're going to let you go so that you're free. But I don't think you got that.

Speaker 1 I think you just sent this to them and you thought that got you out. That's the way this is worded anyway.
And it does not get you out. I'm not an attorney, but it doesn't get you out.
So,

Speaker 1 you know, what I would do, I don't know if you need to appeal it.

Speaker 1 I would just call the property management company.

Speaker 1 I'd go in person.

Speaker 1 If you're in the town, go over there and try to meet with a senior person

Speaker 1 and see if you can negotiate.

Speaker 1 You're going to have to pay some money because you just kind of walk. You were in a horrible situation.
You needed to leave.

Speaker 1 I'm not telling you you did something wrong, but the assumption that you made that it got you out of the lease was incorrect.

Speaker 1 And so you're going to owe some money. Now, you've got to go figure out what and what you can settle it for.
If it's a $4,000

Speaker 1 of legitimate charges or a bunch of them that are just beefed up or whatever, you might settle it for that equal to to that one month's rent.

Speaker 1 But you're going to end up paying something, I think. I don't think the judge is going to go, oh, well, you had a protection order.
You don't have to honor your contract.

Speaker 1 It's like saying, I got a protection order signed to pay my car payment.

Speaker 1 No, that's not how it works. So, sorry.
Yeah, you're going to end up paying something, Brianna.

Speaker 1 And the sooner you can get to somebody and get a settlement negotiation begun, you're better off to do it in person and you're better off to do it with the actual people, not the stupid lawyers.

Speaker 1 But if you can get that pulled off, that's going to be your best route because you're not going to get out of Dodge on this without paying something. Joe's in Chesapeake, Virginia.
Hi, Joe.

Speaker 1 How are you?

Speaker 2 Hey, Dave. How's it going?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2 So, beginning of this year, we decided to, my wife and I decided to take our debt seriously. And

Speaker 2 now we have paid off $30,000 in student loans and credit card debt.

Speaker 1 Good for you.

Speaker 2 Mostly from

Speaker 2 my job, and I've been fixing and flipping lawnmowers, trucks, equipment, tractors, all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 1 Cool. How much money you made doing that?

Speaker 2 Honestly,

Speaker 2 normally about $4,000 to $5,000 a month.

Speaker 1 Wow. Good for you.
Yeah. You're good at this.
Yes, sir. Yep.

Speaker 2 I've been working hard. I'm a caterpillar mechanic.
That's my career. So I just kind of

Speaker 2 buy what I can and fix it up.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 you know how to turn a wrench.

Speaker 2 Good for you, man yes sir yep um my question is

Speaker 2 I'm I'm at the point where I need to start my my emergency fund three to six month emergency fund good and I've been looking at the high yield savings account and I see that the rate of return is the one I found that I applied for was 5.31 percent

Speaker 2 My mortgage, I only owe $119 on it, a house that we built ourselves,

Speaker 2 and the

Speaker 2 interest rate on that is four point three percent

Speaker 2 so my question is why should i not just put all of my income into the high yield savings account as long as the rate of return is greater than the interest owed and um

Speaker 1 because if you make one percent on one hundred thousand dollars it's a thousand dollars

Speaker 1 you don't have a thousand dollar problem you have a hundred and nineteen thousand dollar problem

Speaker 1 The secret to paying off your mortgage is not making 1% spread on a high-yield savings account. The secret to paying off your mortgage is do what you did with the $30,000 and pay off your mortgage.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 The actual math of

Speaker 1 this theory that you're running won't buy you a biscuit.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 That's what I'm saying. So you're making more money on tractors than you'll make on this in a week.

Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 You follow me?

Speaker 1 Yes, sir. If you got $100,000 at 5% and 100,000 at 4%, the spread is 1%.

Speaker 1 1% of $100,000 is $1,000 per year.

Speaker 1 You make that in a week flipping tractors.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 it's not enough to screw with.

Speaker 1 So just pay off your mortgage. Get your emergency fund done and then go ahead and go through the baby steps four, five, and six, and you'll be in great shape, man.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I like to take that thousand bucks and divide it monthly.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 $83. That's your sleep tax.
And you'll more than make that back. $83 a month.
To sleep deeper than you've ever slept in your life because nobody can take your house away. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Just pay it off as fast as you can. Just nail it.
Hammer. Do it.
Do it. Do it.
Do it. Don't mess around with it.
Don't play games. Good for you.
Good question. All right.
Sam's in Syracuse. Hi, Sam.

Speaker 1 How are you?

Speaker 2 I'm good, Dave. How are you?

Speaker 1 Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2 Hey, so I kind of I feel like it's a dumb question but

Speaker 1 you're in the right place I have been a couple of dumb guys we got you

Speaker 2 hey so I've been with my girlfriend now for almost a little over a year

Speaker 2 I accumulated a large sum of debt before I got with her while I was in the military

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 want to move forward with our relationship.

Speaker 2 We've discussed it for the last two months or so.

Speaker 2 I have the money set aside for the ring.

Speaker 1 How much?

Speaker 2 About $3,500.

Speaker 1 How much in debt do you have?

Speaker 2 I would say it's roughly around $50,000.

Speaker 1 And what's it on?

Speaker 2 It's a few things.

Speaker 2 So one of them is a credit card, which is $25,000.

Speaker 2 One is from a repo from a previous relationship.

Speaker 1 What do you make a year?

Speaker 2 I make about $65 a year, I would say. I pull in about

Speaker 1 $4,200.

Speaker 2 $26.

Speaker 1 $26. Okay.
Almost like I've done this before. Okay.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you're saying you want to wait to get out of debt to get married?

Speaker 2 And that's the thing is,

Speaker 2 I've heard a few different

Speaker 2 answers to that question.

Speaker 1 Unless they're this answer, they're wrong. The correct answer is get married.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 If you're pledged to get out of debt and she's pledged to get out of debt with you and you're aligned and in agreement on your money, get married.

Speaker 2 That's one of the big reasons why I fell in love with her.

Speaker 2 I was very open to it.

Speaker 1 Don't tell her I think I've got $50,000. Tell her I have $49,462 in debt, and it's exactly this.

Speaker 1 And this is exactly what I'm going to do to get out because I'm the kind of man you want to marry because I'm getting this done.

Speaker 1 I'm a go-getter,

Speaker 1 that's who you need to be. Don't give me, I think, I make, I think I'm in debt.
Get it exact and kill it. This is the Ramsey Show.