You Control Your Own Path Forward. What’s Your Next Step?

Welcome to the Ramsey Show America.

This is where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships.

The phone number to jump in today is 888-825-5225.

Alongside the fantastic Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman, and we're here for you today.

And speaking of today,

if I might

speak to a very large and diverse audience for just a moment.

Come on, Ken.

Because it's the morning after.

And the reality is, Jade, is all morning and even late last night.

I have been receiving texts and communicating with friends

who are deliriously happy with the results.

I have also been communicating with friends who are devastatingly sad.

And I think it's important for this large audience to

sit with that for just a moment and understand that's okay and that's normal to have those emotions.

That is what makes a free society free is the opportunity to express with great passion, also show up and vote.

And the reality is

it matters a great bit and we know that.

So I was thinking of four words, Jade,

to challenge our audience and encourage our audience.

If your side won last night, be classy.

If your side lost last night, be hopeful.

And if I could take those last two words, be hopeful and challenge both sides of the aisle today,

be hopeful, but be careful what you're hopeful in.

I want you to be hopeful in you

and your free will and your ability

to achieve why you come to this show.

And here's what you come to this show for, freedom.

You come for freedom in your finances

so that you can create the life that you want to create, that you can spend money on the things you want to spend on.

You can solve the problems that you must solve problems in your life when they arise.

You come to this show because you want to have an opportunity to climb the ladder, to make more money, to be able to do those things, to make the difference in the world through work that you desire to make.

And you come to this show because relationships are hard and you want healthy relationships.

Because if we don't have a healthy relationship, we have nothing.

And so that's why you're here and that's why we are here is to help you get that freedom, Jade.

So

I want to give it to you.

That's why I vote.

I add your thoughts because you understand the situation as well.

Hey, I mean, well put.

Well, Ken, you were created for this moment.

Very well put.

I think it's

an opportunity for both sides to just be magnanimous and be a good winner and a good loser, if that's whatever.

And begin today to focus on what you can do, which is what we preach here.

What can you do to make your life better?

And to that end, we want to hit on some of the fundamentals here because we believe that no matter who's in the White House,

you can control the things that happen in your house and ultimately your life, Jade.

Listen, truthfully, the blueprint doesn't change regardless of who's in office.

The good news is that what we teach is kind of based on principle and principles don't change.

And so the baby steps don't change.

And so just a reminder, especially for those who are maybe new to our show or maybe you just need to brush up because you've been freaking out in your mind a little bit.

Let's just, let's bring it back for a second.

All right.

So baby step one, you still need $1,000 saved.

If you don't have it, get it.

It's going to make you sleep better at night.

You're going to be ahead of 56% of Americans if you get out and get that $1,000 saved.

Baby step two, let's start focusing on our debt.

The lowest possible rung of that ladder is just to decide that you're not going to borrow any money anymore.

And so let's not make the problem worse.

Maybe you don't feel like you're in a situation to start paying it off, but at the very least, you can say, well, I'm not going to borrow anymore.

Okay.

And then once you move past that step, start paying it off using the debt snowball.

And then baby step three, let's start saving up some savings.

Three to six months is what we recommend.

That's a fully funded emergency fund.

And let me tell you something, Ken, when you have that, then

things start to get good.

You start to feel a lot better.

That's that margin.

That, by the way, that's where that emotion of freedom pops in with that emergency fund, doesn't it?

It does, because you kind of go, no matter what hits,

I feel prepared.

Yeah.

Right.

And so you have that preparedness.

And then baby step four, let's Let's start investing.

You know, you start investing for the future.

This is preparing you for a time when maybe you won't work because that time will hit all of us eventually.

So we're investing 15%.

All right.

Hey, I got to jump in because you're the queen of this.

What?

I want you to give a real example.

Maybe get your investment calculator.

I didn't prep you for it.

That's all right.

Let's come home.

Come get your calculator because I'm going to set a scenario up because I want people to get this.

What Jade's talking about is...

Let's say that you're in your early 20s, Jade.

I'm going to give you a scenario.

So take somebody early 20s.

Maybe they're fresh out of college right now.

First job, first presidential election.

Let's make it real.

And they're going, what does this mean?

You know what I mean?

And you go, come on, just pay attention to the baby steps right now.

And

they got a good job.

And let's say that they have no debt or they're thinking, okay, if I follow what Jade says, I'm going to start entering.

I'm going to start putting some money in.

You create your own scenario of what baby step four really looks like for every American.

You take it away.

Okay.

So let's pretend.

I mean, set me up better than that, King, because I don't know exactly where you're going.

I'm sorry.

So

let's say we've got a 27-year-old.

Okay, so I'll put 27 in the calculator.

All right.

And let's say that they can put that they're in baby step four.

Okay.

Or that they see, what would it look like in baby step four?

Let's put it that way.

You're not there, but you go, okay, what if I could put away,

let's say 15% on a salary of, I'm going to make this up.

Let's say we were to put away two grand a month.

Two grand?

That's a lot.

Go a thousand.

I told you, you're the queen.

Let's go ahead.

A thousand bucks.

Let's do 500.

See, this is why I defer to you.

You're the queen.

Well,

let me see what I'm going to base it on.

I'm going to base it on the average salary, which is $67,000.

I like what you're doing.

And then I'm going to say 15% of that, because we take it off the gross, which is $10,000.

That's perfect.

And then I'm going to divide that by 12.

And that's going to be $837.

So we'll do that.

There you go.

And to be fair, I threw this on her.

That's okay.

You see where we're going?

I want people to not just hear that.

I want them to see what you're about to do.

The idea is that you've not had anything in retirement up until this point.

And so you say, okay, I'm going to start doing that.

And lo and behold, you retire with $4.1 million.

Okay, there it is.

That's all I wanted.

Yeah.

So

the dream is alive and well.

All right, keep going.

Baby step five.

I'm sorry.

I interrupted your rhythm, but I like that.

I like that.

People need to see that the dream is free.

The hustle is sold separately.

You got to do the work.

All right.

Baby step five, now you're saving for your kids' college and you're getting them into education, which is good.

Baby step six, let's pay off that home early, Ken.

Wow.

That's a game changer when that happens.

Yeah.

And by the way, we have a really cool stage here at Ramsey Solutions.

It's the debt-free stage, and people come in and they tell us when they've become debt-free and they scream with, you know, just that intensity.

And half the time, they've also paid off their mortgage as well.

So true.

And so this happens every day.

And then baby step seven is...

living and giving like no one else.

This is us prioritizing generosity because it's such a foundation of everything we teach here.

Usually your why lives in baby step seven.

Come on.

So here's what we want.

Jay did a masterful job of laying out the fundamentals that lead to financial freedom.

There's more.

Our team has put together a great blog post.

It's in the show notes.

And here's what it's going to encourage you.

Emotionally, it's going to encourage you that no matter how you're feeling about who's going to be in the White House, you can take all that stress and worry and put it into steps.

Yeah.

to actually take control of your life.

And we are here for you five days a week, cheering you on.

Go get the blog.

It's a deeper dive from what Jay just did.

And it's going to really equip you, not just encourage you.

Go get it in the show notes, however you take in the show.

All right, quick break.

We'll be right back with more of the Ramsey Show.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

So excited you're here with us on the Ramsey Show, helping you

win.

with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships.

That's our aim.

And we'd love to coach you today.

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All right.

Corey's going to start us off in Des Moines, Iowa.

Corey, how can we help today?

Hey, Ken.

Hey, Jade.

Thank you so much for taking my call.

You bet.

So

I started out.

I don't know how far back I should go.

I buy and sell real estate,

not as an agent, but as an investor.

Got pulled in many years ago with OPM, other people's money,

borrowing and

taking out HELOCs and all sounded great buying a lot of properties and it has all caught up with me.

Oh no.

Yeah.

What does that mean?

Tell us what's happening currently.

Well, I'm currently sitting with all my monthly expenses sitting at about,

well,

Total debts

about $1.1 million right now.

Oh, hello.

My goodness.

Where are my Toms?

Okay.

Well, hopefully these are worth something.

Got

a lot of my properties are bundled.

It's not like every single property is its own mortgage.

They're bundled.

So I've got $480,000 in one mortgage, $199,000 in another.

Got a HELOC at $189,000.

Okay.

Another mortgage, $173,000.

They add up very, very, very quickly.

So if we, can I just ask you just a a crazy question?

Yep.

If you were to sell, I don't know how many you have, but if you were to sell them, would you clear the million with their equity?

Potentially, and I have already started that, which brings me to another one of my questions.

I did get the Every Dollar app and have everything in that.

Still struggling on how to.

figure it out 100%.

That would probably be another call for another day.

But

I am showing with my current budget, I've got

because I have sold, I've sold a couple of them.

How many do you have total?

22 units total.

Wow.

Okay.

22 units total.

Some of them are sold on contract, just waiting to be cashed out on.

One I just

did fully sale.

Put that money out.

I sold another one on contract, had about $50,000 down payment on that one with a good cash flow flow every month on that one.

Listen, you're going in the right direction.

The solution here is that the debt, which is what you opened with, is what's causing you anxiety.

And rightfully so.

$1.1 million

is a bag.

That's a lot of money.

Okay.

And so it makes sense that that's weighing on your chest or in your shoulders or in your gut, wherever it is that you're feeling that on a day-to-day basis.

And the solution here is let's offload it.

Luckily, you have a bunch of assets that you can sell and sell for more than what you paid for, right?

That's the whole point.

And so what I would do, if I were you, is I'd go through these 22 units and I'd figure out what's going to give me the most bang for my buck when I sell it.

And are there any of them that are cash flowing well that I can keep and, you know, kind of continue to do this?

But from now on, I'm paying cash for my properties.

And so you had this kind of dream, it sounds like of being, you know, some sort of real estate mogul.

And you just went about it the wrong way, you know, and I think that it's not too late to go in reverse and right, get this thing right side up.

Ken?

That's exactly what I was hoping for.

Get some of them sold and maybe I can end up with three or four of them that's fully paid for.

And let's just caveat, that is far more successful.

I'd rather you have three properties

that you're not in debt and you feel good about having them.

That is far more of a place of success than being able to say, I've got 22 properties, but you're carrying all this debt and stress attached to it.

So where I'm at right now is my account in the Every Dollar shows I have left a budget $21,000, which is great.

Great to have that cushion right there.

But I do have that

$180,000, $189,000 HELOC.

I do not have a first mortgage on my home.

So I've just got the HELOC on it.

What my plan is, and correct me if I'm wrong here, what my plan is, is it's a HELOC.

It's just an interest-only payment.

I'm not making any interest, any principal payments on that at all.

I haven't been for several years.

Yeah, but of all the properties here, I'm going to

emancipate your personal property first.

Like that's the one that needs to be paid off free and clear so that you can live without stress.

And then everything else is being sold for parts.

Like, all right, this one, it doesn't cash flow very well.

I can get 80,000 for it.

I'm selling it.

This one, you know, it does okay, but I hate the location.

I'm going to sell that.

I'm going to make $120,000 off of it.

Right.

And you're going

through the order of priority.

Your home is the most important home.

And then everything else is on the block.

The chopping block, that is.

So you don't think it's a good idea to just put that into a regular mortgage?

I mean,

in this case, no, because you're going to sell a property and you're going to have the cash to pay it off immediately.

So at that point, the interest rate, the mortgage, you're not going to have a mortgage on your house.

Gotcha.

Because the steps I've been using was to pay off some of the

credit cards and stuff like that.

Well, how much other debt do you you have?

We didn't talk about that.

Tell me more.

We didn't.

Yeah.

Let me just do a little check here.

Just in the property debt is a million.

So the other 200,000, the other 200,000 is like the credit cards, the vehicles.

Okay, so here's the order you're going to go and can jump in at any point.

The first property that you sell,

let's pretend you clear 200,000.

You're going to pay off this this debt and you're going to keep $1,000 aside for emergencies.

By the way, do you have any money saved anywhere?

Yes, I do.

I've got

an emergency fund.

It's not $1,000.

It's $2,500 because I've got so many properties.

Fine.

I'm not concerned about that right now.

I'm not going to take you to task.

I've got $2,500 stat aside in a separate account that I don't mess with.

So we sell off the first property, we clear the consumer debt.

We sell off the next property, we keep three to six months of expenses.

We sell the next property and we clear our house, and then we clear, then we pay off, we sell enough properties to clear all of this $1.1 million of debt.

And I think you have it out of these 22 units if you've done it anywhere close to right.

Follow the plan, the debt snowball.

Let's give him a copy of, excuse me, Total Money Makeover.

Yeah.

Just follow the process.

Read that.

It's classic.

She's laid it out for you.

But yeah, the thing I was going to add is I like his attitude.

Yeah.

What could hinder somebody from getting out of this mess is feeling like they're just idiots and they're not.

They're normal.

This kind of stuff happens.

And he admitted it.

I think his mindset is good.

Yeah.

He's not beating himself up.

Corey, don't fall prey to that.

Just follow the plan.

And before you know it, shoulder's going to go back even further.

Heads up.

And you know that you're walking out of this.

Great advice, Jade.

All right, quick break.

We'll be right back with more of the Ramsey Show.

The Ramsey Show continues.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman, triple 8-825.

5225 is the phone number.

We'd love to take your calls.

Jade's our money specialist today, and I'm the work and leadership guy today, helping you in those areas.

We're both going to tag team on these financial and relationship issues as well because they're all tied together.

Greenville, South Carolina, is where we go next.

Stephanie is joining us there.

Stephanie, how can we help today?

Hi, thank you for having me, Kim and Jade.

You bet.

What's happening?

I am

reaching out to ask a question about I own a business and I'm trying to implement a 401k or a simple IRA plan and I'm wanting to know the best things to look at, what to look for, what are the pros and cons,

just some direction with this.

Okay.

What kind of business is it?

And, you know, is it just you or do you have employees?

Tell me more.

I do.

I have a team of seven.

That includes my husband and I.

The business was started in 2016.

It's for pest and wildlife control.

We are mainly, as far as income is concerned, wildlife is about 80% of our income and pest is about 20%.

We added that on about two years ago.

But yes, seven team members total.

Okay.

If I were you, there's a couple of different routes you could go.

And I don't want to lead you astray.

I think that it all depends on how much, like what the max contributions are, how much the business is going to match that versus the,

what you, what the employer puts in or what the employee puts in, I'm sorry.

And so for that reason, I'd probably work with a, I'd work with your bookkeeper or I'd work with a

somebody who's going to be able to give you better tax information than I would.

I could tell you kind of on a basis if you're kind of more of a solopreneur what you might do.

But with this,

I'd want somebody to really look at the numbers and tell me what's going to work best for me tax-wise and investment-wise for me and my employees.

Yeah, I think, Stephanie, neither one of us are great experts on this.

Yeah.

But I think we can tell you what to do beyond what Jade said.

And I think, again,

a tax pro, somebody who works with businesses.

So you can get tax pro information at ramseysolutions.com in your area.

Go talk to a few.

They want to specialize, obviously, in small businesses and how they help with some of this stuff.

They may have some insight into this, investment pros as well.

And then, you know what I would be doing?

I would also be talking to small business owners.

Do you happen to know of two or three people, top of your mind right now, that run companies around the same size as yours in your area?

I do.

I've talked to several people about this.

Y'all are actually one of my last phone callers.

Oh, good.

So I went down the road to implement a 401k.

And when I walked into my bookkeeper to just kind of talk to, or my CPA who does my bookkeeping as well,

She immediately said, you need to go with a simple IRA.

Now, this year we've experienced about 150% growth.

Good for you.

And that's awesome.

I guess my only concern, yeah, it's been, I mean, it really has been amazing, but making a good decision, I guess maybe I'm viewing a 401k or a simple IRA as a little more limiting than a 401k.

In what way?

So just looking.

In the way of like a 401k, you get vested.

There's matching in both programs, but you have to match with a simple that's right you don't have to the opt-in happens with the 401k so some of those styles of the plan make more sense to me with the 401k and that was the road I was going down why did you know

she said simple because she said why are you gonna pay the fees of a 401k just put the money into your people's plan that was that was

and see I like that too I was gonna give you a formula to go get answers on this what's best for the business what's best best for the people that you've hired?

And I think that that's your, I always try to take complexity and I simplify it.

And I go, if I'm looking at all this, I'm going to have a simple piece of paper and I'm going to draw a line down.

I'm going to go, okay, which one of these plans is best for this business?

And which one of these plans is best for the employees?

And we want to try to find a solution that is good for both.

Yeah, I mean, it's not.

I think that's the rubric.

If she's right and the math is that what it is such as whatever you're paying in fees is pretty pretty much comparable to what you'd be paying in a match.

Yeah, it'd be better for the money to go to your team members.

That's what you want to get to.

What's good for both?

Okay.

And if we can get best for both, great.

But if there's a give and take,

we want to land that way because you've got a great heart for your people.

I love what you're trying to do.

And by the way, I just want to give Stephanie a shout out real quick.

This is awesome to talk to a small business owner.

This is a female small business owner taking care of the critters.

Yeah, very, very growing 150%.

That's awesome.

So, yay.

Stephanie, can we give her some love?

I mean, that's really awesome.

She's providing jobs.

This is the American dream.

Yeah.

That right there.

She's a small business owner solving a real problem.

And so I love that.

Good stuff.

All right.

Next, let's go to Richmond,

Virginia, rather.

And Jennifer is there.

Jennifer, how can we help?

Yes, thank you.

My situation is I have $275,000 to buy

land, build a house, and

everything, furnishings, everything.

That's all I have.

And it's cash.

I'm not going to have a mortgage.

And it's proving difficult to budget for that.

I'm wondering if I should

rent for a year.

And what I do for a living is I buy real estate, I improve it and sell it,

and do that for a year with the cash that I have to try to build up a little bit more for my ultimate home.

Well, yeah.

How much do you need?

Well, you know, it's

land is so hard to find and so expensive.

So I would be more comfortable at $375.

Okay.

And you've run out the numbers because what I want, I want to make sure we're

fully and with detail counting the cost of this so that you don't enter in and realize, oh, gosh, I don't have enough money.

And now I am kind of considering debt when that's not what you said you wanted to begin with.

So I really want you working out the numbers to go, okay, if I spend X on this land, what can I then spend on the build?

And is that enough to get me what I say I want plus furnishings, right?

So we're doing a detailed,

in many ways, just a detailed budget on this to, that's directly for this, this home build.

Right.

The tricky part is I'm not tied to any specific area.

So I'm looking in four different states

just for something available.

Inventory is very low right now for raw land that's decent.

Are you operating with cash?

Jennifer, when you say I'm going to rent for a year and I've got to buy some more properties and flip them and then create more cash, are you doing that with cash?

Yes, I am.

I'm in my early 60s debt-free.

monthly expenses are $1,500 a month.

I love it.

I'm going to double with rent.

That's all I wanted to know.

Yeah.

I like that strategy.

You have such a low burn rate and you're debt-free.

And I love that you're going to be patient, flip a few more properties, stack some bigger cash, get the house I want that I've earned.

Come on, Jennifer.

I'm totally fine with renting in this situation.

And listen, what I want you to do is we have a really great real estate home base that could probably help you out when it comes to finding the land that you're looking for.

So if you go to ramseysolutions.com/slash real estate, they're probably going to be able to get in there and help you find the tract of land that that you're looking for yeah so okay yeah i've averaged 75k take home over the past seven years so it would take me you know um a little over a year to get what i need but then of course expenses are going to go up too probably so they are and i i do think that you have to balance that carefully um

And just hear me say, I think the best way to buy a home is cash.

That's great.

A lot of people can't do that, but no one would fault you.

jennifer if you ended up having a thirty thousand dollar mortgage or a seventy thousand dollar mortgage i just want to give you that piece of this that if you don't want to wait another two years you'd be all right

you wouldn't yell at her well i wouldn't i wouldn't yell at her

i also thought about buying the land and just parking an rv on that and that way i'm not spending money on rent that's where i and that's where we drift away that's where you and i drift away on ideals only because the goal for you right now is to save up money.

And with the RV, you are having something that's depreciating.

And I'd hate for you to tie even more money up in that.

I mean, obviously, it's your life.

And if you're the RV type, you know, buy something very, very used and very, very inexpensive.

But I tend to like the idea of you renting a little bit better.

Yeah.

There you go.

All right, Jennifer, love that call.

Boy, she's making things happen.

Yeah.

60 years old, debt-free, got her own little real estate empire.

Would you do the RV or the rent?

You know, I was thinking, if if it's a nice piece of land that I'm going to do, I might put an

Airstream.

No, a cool little shelter that could be multi-use, live in that for a little while.

And then it makes the property back shape.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside Jade Warsaw.

I'm Ken Coleman.

Phone number is 888-825-5225 to get coached up.

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And you can learn more there.

That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y.

dot com slash Ramsey.

It may not be available in all states.

All righty.

Today's question comes from Andy in Delaware.

My fiancé had a lot of debt related to a prior divorce.

She's currently living with her parents, and her parents used a little cash and 10 credit cards to pay off her debt.

So now she owes them close to $75,000.

I know legally, most of this is not in my fiancé's name, but morally, we owe it together when we get married.

I didn't agree with how her mom put this debt on credit cards, and it doesn't sound like they are paying much more than the minimums right now.

My plan is to take out a personal loan after we get married to pay off her parents in full.

So I have control over the debt completely.

This would drop down the interest significantly.

We could then attack it with both of our incomes to pay it off as quickly as we can.

Would this work or is there a better plan?

Okay, so just to clarify, there was a divorce.

She had debt.

Her parents said, we'll take care of it, but we're doing it with credit cards.

And you're like, no, when we get married, we're going to take out a personal loan and clear it.

um

i don't necessarily like that method i like that you're saying hey after we get married then we'll tackle it together that is right so green check on that um i would not do the loan um the truth is you're only on the hook for the 75 000 you're not necessarily on the hook for

any interest that is incruded because of their method of paying for this.

That part is on them because they chose that route.

They chose that card with that interest rate.

Unless there's a conversation that I don't know about, in my mind, I'd be like, I owe you $75,000, Ken.

I couldn't agree more.

It's a lot easier.

They've already assumed this debt for her.

This is not something that she put on them.

They did this.

I would pay the parents directly.

And I agree with Jade.

I wouldn't worry about the interest.

That's their problem.

I think they'll be thrilled that you guys are serious about paying it off.

And I think it's a lot easier to pay them off.

Now, I would only say the caveat to that is

you both need to agree, you and your fiancé,

that we aren't skipping this.

We're going to treat this like it is a private loan, like our credit would be affected, like they'd come after us with collections, all of the things that people that loan money put in place as some sense of accountability.

And I think that's the key, or else this could create tension.

And I don't think that's the case here.

I think this is like, we want to get this out.

I love the urgency, love the character and the integrity here, but I agree with Jade 100%.

Pay the parents directly.

Here's the problem I do foresee: is that he's already noticing, hey, her mom put this on credit cards.

And this is him speculating.

It doesn't seem like she's making payments.

So, or he says something there where you're paying the minimums.

Yeah, they're paying minimums.

So I do foresee a problem of down the line them saying, well, we did this, but it's the balance has grown.

So I do think you need to have some sort of really, really clear conversation about how interest is handled and how that part is not pertaining to you.

And records, records, records.

Records, records, I would treat every payment that's sent to the parents, however you choose to do it.

I would have that in a journal, a financial record.

Your bank would easily give you that.

I would do that so that it is tracked.

Yes.

If you have the conversation that Jade is recommending and I agree, because again, they could do something dumb with all that $75,000 and not pay off the credit card.

But at that point.

And ain't my problem.

And let it be known when Ken and I talk about you having this conversation, we really mean your wife, not not you.

You need to stay far from this conversation and let her speak for both of you because otherwise this could get grisly.

Let's go to Detroit, Michigan, where Nick awaits.

Nick, how can we help?

Hey, Ken and Jade, thank you for taking my call.

I had a question about having dual employment.

Reason being was

We have three boys, seven, six, and three.

So we're in that messy middle.

And I wanted to give my wife the opportunity to, you know, be a stay-at-home mom.

She was a nurse to begin with.

And then once we had our third child, I just said, you know, might as well stay at home.

We can survive with my income.

Now that she

took advantage of her, or she took advantage by herself going through her master's to get nurse practitioner.

And she just completed the program.

And you told her to stay home.

Yeah.

Hold on, on, hold on.

I did.

Okay, so,

Ken, you go ahead.

Yeah, keep going.

Sorry, go ahead.

Yeah, keep going.

Get to our question.

Yep.

Okay, so

I work for a fire department, and I make about $110,000.

And then I also have a family business where I make about $100,000 as well.

Obviously, the fire is pension.

And then the family business is just straight salary.

There is a simple IRA that I can contribute to.

My question is: now that she has her nurse practitioner license and we have no student debt,

am I

crazy to leave my fire department

employment and give up my

pension opportunity

and allow her income to supplement my loss and obviously strive to make more as a family business?

Or do I just grind it out with both employments if I can manage it?

All right.

So how much is she going to, excuse me, how much is she going to make as a nurse practitioner?

I would hope about $140.

Okay, so $140.

And the family business, where you're making $100 right now, do you own that or are you working for another family member?

For my dad.

Okay.

And is that what you want to do long term?

Let's go 15, 20 years from now.

Do you want to be a fireman and be in the business or do you just want to be running that business or not in it at all?

No, and so that's the unique part is in about five years, I had the opportunity to leave the fire department under a full pension or I'm able to be,

I can pull out from the pension.

I know, but I'm not focusing on that.

I'm asking, do you want to be long-term owner or involved in the family business?

Yes or no?

Yes, yes.

I mean, that's the dream.

That's what you want, right?

Yes.

Okay.

So what would benefit you leaving the fire department right now?

Forget the pension.

I know you're all hung up off the pension.

I don't really care about the pension.

I'm not minimizing the pension, but we don't make decisions based on pensions.

Okay.

So

my question is, if you leave the fire department, that's a certain block of hours every week, and you just focused on the business, would that allow you to do more and get paid more in the family business?

Yeah, there would have to be a discussion, but yeah, absolutely.

I'd have the discussion.

Dad, if I walk away from the fire department and I start full-time and I'm all my energy in here, what's that look like?

This is very simple.

Stop thinking about the fire pension.

Because if you walk away from the pension to make your life better in the now and the next, nobody cares about the pension.

Jay?

I want to know where does the stay-at-home mom who was going to be a nurse practitioner fit into all this?

Because that was the thing that made me be like, wait, what?

What?

What?

Sounds like she's back in, right?

To work?

Yeah, no, and that was the goal.

I mean, she just wanted, that was her personal goal was to become a nurse practitioner.

And for being a stay-at-home mom, it gave her the opportunity to just focus on school and nothing else.

So she's excited.

She's excited to get back in, and does she have a gig?

She's currently seeking.

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

I walk away from the fireman position.

You're only in it because of this pension.

That's the only evidence you've given us as to why you'd keep doing it.

And I just don't think you need to keep doing it.

Now, you can if you want to.

But if I'm trying to grow in one area, which is for you as a family business, every second I'm spending in the fire station is taking away from that long-term goal.

And if your wife makes $110 and she's replacing the fireman's salary.

Yeah, why not?

Bingo.

This is a no-brainer if it plays out the way that you want it to play out.

Maybe wait until she gets the gig.

I'm afraid to pull the trigger.

Well, don't pull the trigger until she starts making the money and she's in.

No, absolutely.

Yeah, man, you got this.

That's interesting.

Yeah, I was confused in the very very beginning, but I also jumped the gun, so that's why I was confused.

Yeah, you got a little fired up.

I know, I did.

I thought that was going a different direction.

I did.

I did.

Don't tell me what I can do.

Is that what I heard?

Yeah, yeah.

I digress.

She's a strong woman.

Hear her roar, folks.

Good hour.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, America.

We're going to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships.

Alongside the fabulous, the incomparable Jade Warshaw.

I'm just simply Ken.

Ken Coleman.

You get a last name.

Coleman.

Yeah, there you go.

Glad to be with you, my friend.

Always fun.

How you feeling?

How you feeling about the future today?

You know what?

I am quite hopeful, but I would have been hopeful regardless of who won this election.

I know you would have.

You know, I'm all about that.

I know.

You know why?

Because you and your hubs paid off almost half a million dollars.

Okay.

In debt.

You're a former D1 volleyball player.

You are a mom.

You're a wife.

You're a successful person.

You just ran a marathon.

Thank you, Kim Corner.

Crying out loud.

Why?

We haven't talked about that enough.

I don't know.

Did you set a PR on that?

America wants to know.

It was my personal best and my only best.

Oh, my only marathon.

Oh, I thought for some reason that you had run one before.

I've done many houses.

So as of right now, it is a personal record, and we will call it that yeah i was impressed because folks i saw her instagram post on the day of the marathon i believe it was a saturday as i recall yeah it was and uh you you posted that you were like laying down you're like i ain't doing anything and i laughed listen i had my hair tied up i was out but monday morning i was at my desk and who comes confidently striding in to her desk yeah

No limping.

Yeah.

You want to know why?

Because I did the training.

I know.

I trained.

But I also think you might just be a little bit more blessed athletically and physically because I was really in pain after mine.

Half marathon.

You did a full.

I'm trying to.

You didn't.

Remember I said to you, I was like, are you not sore?

And you looked at me like I was like, no.

Ken, I'm trying to build an analogy here for the listeners.

Help me build.

I don't know what it is because I don't know where your head's.

I'm saying that I did the training.

I did the steps ahead of time.

So when the race day hit.

Yeah, it didn't wreck your body.

Yeah, regardless of the outcome, I was all right.

I agree.

Well, I'm proud of you.

You and Sam both.

Do you see my analogy that I'm building here, Ken?

Yes.

Okay.

You did the training, the baby steps.

Yes.

I'm with you.

And so when the race day came, I didn't want to step into your thing.

I thought you were going to finish it.

I didn't know you were looking for me to like jump in on the screen.

I wanted you to be like, Jay, that was great.

Oh, you went through a bounce pass, and I was supposed to dunk it.

Yeah.

I missed it.

When the race day came, no matter the outcome, I was prepared.

You were prepared.

And that's you, American people.

You had the emergency.

I was trying to make this so it wasn't just you and me rambling.

Well, I'm proud of you.

All right.

Aaron is up next right here in the neck of uh

I don't know what I'm saying.

I forgot how to talk.

Our neck of the woods, Nashville, Tennessee.

Aaron is joining us.

Aaron, how can we help?

Yes.

First off, great being on the show.

Y'all are great.

Thank you.

But I

have just filed for chapter seven bankruptcy.

I was working three jobs.

Now I'm down to two.

And I'm about to have my car repossessed.

Oh.

Just

on my bills

and I'm really wondering what I should do next did you already file has it already been approved

been filed okay so and I should know in the next month or about next next month when it all gets strong how are you doing real quick let's just get a quick check on your head and heart how you how you holding up

I'm doing okay.

I've just been working 70 plus hours a week trying to work my way out of it.

Oh, man.

Okay.

All right.

Well, we're going to help.

Hang in there.

Here's my point.

Your life is not over.

You know, you can come back from this.

So you filed the proceeding.

Can you tell me

what the timeline is on this?

So

I filed about a month and a half ago.

I've had the meeting of creditors, and they said the next step is 90 days after it's is filed.

I should have

the dismissal of everything.

How much was it?

Like what what was

how much was in the bankruptcy?

So

I had about 43,000 in debt.

About 33 of it is going to be

dismissed from the bankruptcy.

Okay, so that leaves you on the hook for 10?

About 11 with student loans, yes.

Oh, yeah, because yeah, student loans are not bankruptable.

So, man, tell me what caused you to get in a situation where you'd file bankruptcy over $33,000.

Tell me more.

Well,

I was pending over $1,000 a month between the car payment and insurance.

And then I was working a restaurant job at the time that just hit the slow season, started making $300 or $400 in a paycheck instead of $1,000 plus.

Okay.

Where I went for a new job at that point and to get more steady pay.

Yeah.

I actually still work at that restaurant on Saturdays only now.

Okay.

And

what do you bring in every month?

Because what I'm getting at here is I want to make sure whatever caused this has been rectified.

Because otherwise you'll be here again.

And I don't think people realize that.

I think sometimes they file bankruptcy and they go, okay, I've solved it.

But what I found is people who do it a lot of times have done it more than once.

And so I want to make sure we solve that at the root.

What are you earning every month now?

Right now, I just now got off a training pay, so it should go up.

But I'm making about...

I'd say four grand a month between the restaurant and the exterminator job now.

Okay, and that's more than what you were making before?

I was making more during the high times.

It just wasn't steady.

Okay, and tell us about your living situation.

What's your rent or mortgage?

Rent is 950 utilities included.

Okay, good.

That's at a good spot.

Yeah, I just...

I mean, you're in this now.

Tell me again, did you say chapter seven or chapter 13?

I was.

It's chapter seven.

Okay, yeah.

So they're just liquidating everything.

Yeah.

I mean, at this point, you're in it.

You're not going to be able to stop it.

They're going to give you a payment plan.

They're going to take whatever they can sell and sell it and

pay down this.

And then you're going to be on a payment plan basically for the rest.

That's not.

No payment plan with chapter seven.

It's just this mess.

Are they giving you a plan for the student loans or are you on your own for that?

I'm on my own with that.

Okay.

Yeah, so you're 10K in.

And so the plan now is let's pay this off as quickly as possible.

The big kicker is the vehicle.

Part of the bankruptcy is that I lose the vehicle and they hadn't taken it yet, but it actually just lost an axle while I was driving it the other day to where it's not usable right now.

I do have a work vehicle for the exterminator job.

Yeah, but you have to use that only for work.

Are you going to be able to get to the restaurant?

I have a guy who lives in my neighborhood that's been giving me a ride there and back.

When I don't have a ride, it's anywhere from $70,000 to $100 to Uber there and back.

Well, the good news is the 33,000 was dismissed.

And so with your $4,000

a month income where your

rent is right where it should be at around 25%, now you've got margin back.

So how quickly can we save up to get something in cash?

Because that debt is gone.

In many ways, you got what you wanted and that debt was cleared.

But now it's it's at the it's at the expense of you completely rebuilding from scratch.

Yeah.

So the we we cannot and I can't stress this enough, we cannot do the same actions that caused this.

So you cannot go into debt for this vehicle.

You've got to figure out what that means.

Is it I'm getting a ride from my buddy until I can save up $3,000 to get the most beaterist beater that I can find?

Is it I'm Ubering?

Is it I'm picking up a third job?

Whatever that is, you cannot create the same problems that got you into bankruptcy again.

All right, quick commercial break back with more of your calls, America.

She's Jade Warshaw.

I'm Ken Coleman.

You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman.

Jade Warshaw joins me.

The phone number to jump in for you today is 888-825-5225.

Triple 8-825-5225.

Okay, short quiz for you, Jade.

All right.

What is the best way to make the most of your money?

Every dollar.

All right.

What is every dollar?

Every dollar is the best budgeting app in the world.

Nice.

Even though I just said it in the rhythm of jaw rule, it's still the best budgeting app there is.

We created it here at Ramsey, and it truly is.

If you're a person who was used to pen and paper, if you're a person who was a spreadsheet person, this covers all of those bases.

It gives the simplicity for the pen and paper person, but it also gives the nerd out feeling for the spreadsheet person.

And so I think it covers all those bases.

And then if you're a couple, it's great because it covers the communication part of it.

I like it.

That's a good break.

You know what I'm saying?

I like that.

Download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play or click the link in our show notes if you are on YouTube or podcast.

Yep.

All right, let's get to Grace in Cleveland, Ohio.

Grace, how can we help today?

Hi, you guys.

Oh my gosh, thank you so much for taking my call.

You bet.

Okay, so my question for you guys is my husband and I are on baby steps four, five, and six.

And we know that you're not necessarily supposed to be gazelle intense all the way through steps four, five, and six.

So we are wondering, since we're such a young age, if there's ever a situation where it is appropriate or makes sense to stay gazelle intense through paying off your mortgage.

Yeah.

You know, it's funny.

We get this question a lot.

And I'll tell you what I,

Jade's opinion.

My opinion is if you were a person like Sam or I who

You know, baby step one, two, and three took you an inordinate amount of time, right?

You were doing it for four years or five years or even three, three years of really being laser focused.

You got your head down, you're sacrificing at a deep level.

Yes, when it's time to go to baby steps four, five, and six, you need to chill out.

You need to take a chill pill.

You need to move intentionally, not with intensity.

You deserve because you deserve to enjoy some of the fruit of your labor.

Life is.

Life is your life.

It's hard enough.

It's hard enough.

Like you've, you've done the hard part.

Now you get to say, okay, let's enjoy this a little bit.

We go on a vacation.

We buy a new couch, but we're still being intentional and figuring out the rhythm of when we're going to do extra payments, whether it be to 529 or to the house.

Now, if you're a person who you're like, you know what?

I kind of just automatically avoided debt and I didn't have much of it.

And when we found the baby steps and figured out that there's this idea that you could pay off the mortgage too, we never really had that head down, laser-focused time period spent on debt and savings.

Then, yeah, I could see where you could say, you know what, for us, this is kind of our baby step two vibe for this mortgage.

And I'm not mad at that.

And I don't think, do you see what I'm saying?

As long as you and your spouse are on the same page and you go for us,

this is the that moment.

I'm not mad at that.

What's at the root of that question, Grace?

Because I think it's interesting that you ask us,

can we remain?

It's almost like you're looking for permission or maybe your spouse is looking for permission.

Tell us what's behind that question.

Yeah, so it took us about a year to get through baby steps one, two, and three.

So we did it pretty quickly.

We are on a two-income household income right now and we had a surprise baby.

He's six months old now and I would love the opportunity to stay at home with him like my mother did with us.

But right now I am the breadwinner of our home so it's just not possible with our expenses for me to just completely stop working and I want to be financially responsible for just the future of our family.

But if we have another kid, I would love to be able to stay home.

So kind of the root of that is we calculated that we would be about three and a half years out if we we are gazelle intense to finish the mortgage that would take us four and a half years total to get to baby step seven yeah um and then at that point we wouldn't have a mortgage and i'd be able to stay home if we decide to have more kids well then of course why then if that's that's all i asked for that you know what the answer is you were calling us kind of looking for permission yeah this was a question i use you don't need our permission uh it's your life i love how jade answered it i agree with what she's saying there i think in this case you're okay you don't feel like you're overheated And you've got a really great why.

And I just think motivation is not an issue for you guys.

So yeah, I'd go as hard as you guys want to go on that.

How old are you?

Yeah, my husband, I'm 27.

So you'd be 30 and a half with a paid off mortgage?

Yeah, we'd be on baby step seven at 30 and a half.

My husband was like,

His income is kind of uncapped with what he does.

So he was like, I mean, from age 30 to whenever he decides to retire, he's like, I could put more than 15% into my retirement at that point point because we wouldn't have a mortgage because we busted our butts.

Now, do you guys have a plan to replace your income with his growth or get close to that?

Yeah, so right now we're at $170,000 between the two of us.

I'm 27, he's 28.

Okay.

And his income should definitely easily hit that throughout the course of his career.

Well, but how soon?

So let's fast forward your timeline.

Do you think he could get to a place where he's almost or has replaced your income or surpassed your income by the time you've got the house paid off?

Surpass mine, yes, surpass both of ours total, probably not.

But he also, we both have like side hustles that we started doing on the side, and we're, I think we're starting to get a little more intense with them.

So we have the opportunity to have add an extra chance.

And I may not have asked it well, so, but I heard what you said.

He's not, and by the time you pay the house off in this timeline, he's not going to be making what the two of you make together.

So my follow-up question is, and I think I know the answer, will you guys prepare for that and adjust your lifestyle so that that doesn't put you under pressure?

Because what you don't want is to be jacked and excited about coming home with the babies, but then feeling the pressure of the squeeze.

So we want to adjust our lifestyle so that he also doesn't have pressure.

Is that going to be the case?

Yeah, so that's a really good question.

So we have figured it out that if he kind of continues at his trajectory when I'm done working, he he should be at about $5,500 monthly income, but our expense, you know, only $2,500 a month.

So we should still have like a $3,000 cushion every month.

And that's no house payment, correct?

Yes, that's with no house payment correct.

Okay.

Yeah.

See, that's the margin.

That's all I'm checking you on.

And it sounds like you guys got a great plan, Jade.

I feel great about this decision.

This is maturity.

Yeah.

And a young couple.

We actually did Financial Peace University.

Our church and college had offered it.

And my husband and I wanted to do it before we ever got engaged.

And we just think it was the best decision we ever made because we were both very aligned on values and financial literacy and everything.

And I just have to say too before I go off, Jade, you and Rachel are both like my role models.

So I'm super excited I've got to talk to you today.

You're the role model.

You're sitting here.

You've done everything that we could possibly hope someone would do.

And this is the outcome.

You, you have choices and you get to live your life based on your values.

To say it like Rachel Cruz, you've created a a life that you love.

And I think that's excellent.

So you're the role model.

And I'd like you to receive that, though.

I receive it.

Definitely my parents.

My parents are definitely the thing, not me.

You and Rachel deserve that.

Grace, that's phenomenal.

How old are you again?

27.

Wow.

27-year-old Grace, looking up to you and Rachel Cruz.

Holy smokes.

Grace, you have picked two fabulous role models.

I'm blessed to know both of these ladies.

And

you are on a great track.

So thanks for sharing that.

Sometimes, you know, people need to hear that.

So how's that feel?

Does it make you feel old?

Does it make me feel old?

Why do I have to be old, Ken, to be a role model?

Oh, boy.

There, I just stepped right there.

America, this is a classic male error here.

I was trying to be nice.

I just was showing you some honor, and then I go and ruin it.

I'm an L.

I'm asking you if you feel old.

No, she's 27.

I'm not going to reveal how old you are.

I'm 40.

I feel

this is the reason I came here.

There we go.

Good.

You deflected that really quick, and I wanted you to receive that because that's a big deal for someone that sharp to call in and trust you with advice, but then say that nice thing.

So that's very nice.

Do you feel old?

After pickleball tonight, I will.

At this very moment, I feel very fresh.

I didn't get a lot of sleep last night.

How late did you stay up?

I stayed up.

I tried to watch till the very end.

I stayed up till about 1:30.

Well, you know, for the audience that doesn't know me, I'm used to in a very, very long ago life, used to work in politics.

And so I'm just an observer now.

Like, I'm a junkie.

I watch both sides.

I just take it all in.

I'm very quiet and sit there.

I don't go high or low.

I just kind of like watching the game.

And so I will tell you, I got home at 2.45 a.m.

last night.

Okay.

That's nice.

And had one too many cigars.

So voice is cracking on me a little bit today.

All right.

I'm a little jealous.

I had popcorn.

No cigars.

Next time, include salmon eye.

All right.

We'll do it.

Quick break.

We'll be right back.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show America, alongside Jade Warshaw.

I'm Ken Coleman.

The phone number for you to jump in, we'd love to coach up today, is 888-825-5225.

888-825-5225.

Amy joins us now in Vancouver.

Amy, how can we help today?

Hi, my question is about a shared asset I have with my other adult sibling.

So the asset is actually in Texas and it was given to all of us by my parents and

it was, it's definitely been a blessing and

it's getting to the point where there wasn't really a long-term plan put in place.

So it's starting to feel less like a blessing and more of a point of conflict.

So me and all my siblings have lived there.

It's a house

and all me and all my siblings have, our names are on it.

And we have all lived there at some point

while paying rent, except my brother is now, he's been in the house for about six years and he hasn't paid rent.

And he's currently

on leave with the military.

And I tried to reach out to make a plan before he left and he didn't respond to anything.

So I'm wondering how to navigate this asset and keep it a blessing while preserving our relationships.

How many siblings total?

There's four of us.

And

how

did he get this

deal?

How did he just start living in when everybody else has lived in it and paid rent?

I'm presuming you guys have rented it to other people as well.

Is that true?

I think we've rented it to one other family.

How did he get away with living rent-free for six years?

So it was kind of like on your integrity.

There was an account set up and you put a certain amount in that account every month.

And he decided he didn't want to use that same account.

He wanted to do his own thing, which we're like, that's fine.

You know, you can pay rent how you.

What is the rent?

What is it?

It's $250 a month.

Oh, my gosh.

This is a joke.

And so he's not been paying it.

Not once.

What do the other siblings think about this?

So they like, we would, we don't know how to resolve it.

The communication's not great.

They kind of want to be like, well, yeah, we'd like to talk about it.

They've kind of written it off as like, oh, like

we're just never going to see money from that.

It's just never going to.

Nothing's going to change.

How do you arrive at the 250?

Is that like an arbitrary amount or is that maintenance?

What is that?

So that was set up like over a decade ago, like a long time ago.

And it was with the purpose of like, oh, this is affordable so we can live in it and save money so we can, you know,

kind of get ahead.

It doesn't include like utilities or anything like that.

So all four of you are on the deed?

Yes.

What's it worth?

The asset?

Probably $200,000

on the bottom side of the low side.

And there's no debt on it, right?

No, no.

So do the other three siblings, I'm sorry, there's four of you, so the other two, plus you, are they all wanting to get out of this as well?

Are you there?

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear the end of that question.

Okay.

I'm here.

I'm asking,

do the other siblings, are they in agreement with you about they want to get out or are you the only one thinking going, how do I get out of this?

No, the other siblings were all in agreement.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, that helps.

Majority rules.

So, so I'm going to, I don't know.

So, I want to say something, but I'll first say, I don't know.

I've never experienced this before.

So,

I would be seeking counsel, actual legal counsel on this,

on what your options are when you've got four people on a deed, three want to get out.

I just don't know enough legal on that, but I would say this:

However, this goes down,

it's time for three of you to stop letting him bully you.

This guy's a bully, and I know it's your brother.

I'm just telling you like it is.

He's not returning your calls.

He's just acting like a school ground, like on the playground bully.

I'm not going to talk to you.

I'm giving you the silent treatment.

I'm creating all this tension.

And I'm not playing Paul.

I'm just creating all this and I'm daring you.

He's daring you guys to do something and I think he's doing it because he knows you're not willing to do anything about it.

And I think that's the only little thing I wanted to put in there because I think however you resolve this, Jade, I'll get out of the way if you've got a point on this.

But I think whatever needs to happen, he needs to realize the gig is up.

Yeah, I think you've long outstayed your welcome.

You've been, you've taken advantage of us.

It's over.

Yeah.

So just for clarity for me, so you guys, the plan was when you live in the house you put the 250 in the account and that's split amongst the other three siblings right

no so that that amount goes just towards repairs like oh if something like breaks okay

and so while he's been living in the house if something broke what happened

I'm not sure.

So, well, he, there are things broken and they're just not fixed.

So he just didn't take care of the place while he was there either.

Right.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

So, yeah, I mean, mean, the majority rules here, if you have to get a judge to force this, I don't think it would be that difficult to do it.

We could talk about the idea of him buying you guys out, but I don't think that's going to happen.

It's just not going to happen.

So yeah, you might have to sit down.

All of you guys sit down and try to make it light.

But for me, the fact that you're calling, it's no longer light.

So you can try to keep that a light conversation.

But I think the longer you let this go on, the worse it gets.

So to Ken's point, yeah, I think you guys get together.

Somebody talk to a judge and say, How do we force this?

Because we're ready to sell it.

We've kept it this long.

He's not paying rent.

And the truth is,

I kind of like the fact that he doesn't owe each of you.

Because I mean, if you guys are splitting this money, truly, he'd owe each of you $6,000.

But he doesn't since he's not even taking care of the place.

Although, who knows if that'll affect the resale value, but I'd get out of it immediately.

I would too.

Because if you look at this split, let's say they sell it for $200,000 and it's less than $50,000 each.

It's just not enough money to be dealing with all this garbage.

So Amy, I'm with you.

I think your instincts are right.

Let's get out of this thing.

No messing around.

It's not worth spending a bunch with a lawyer to the judge thing, whatever.

I think Jade's right.

Let's clean, efficient, force his hand.

We're selling this thing and

we avoid all the tension.

And then Thanksgiving and Christmas takes care of itself.

But yeah, I'd get out quick.

I really would.

That's an unfortunate situation.

I mean, when you get...

And see, that's okay.

So I'm sitting here,

and I didn't ask.

I've already put put on hold, but like

I didn't ask.

I guess I should have.

If mom and dad are still alive, I got the picture they aren't around.

I got the feeling they're not around.

But I just, and for that reason, I just, I sat there and I went,

note to self, if Stacey and I want to bless our three kids, I need to bless them individually, not try to do a, hey, we're going to do this asset and work the three of you into it.

I just sat there and I went, note to self.

Cash money.

And individually.

Yes.

You're not in it together.

Yeah.

I'm blessing you this way.

I'm blessing you this way this way.

And it's not this like joint thing where there's just, it's just what, I don't see what the value is in that.

It was probably the family home is my guess.

And I think they probably had the option to sell it early on, but they weren't ready to part with it yet.

And so it probably just became, listen, I am adding all sorts of story to this that I don't know are true.

So I'm sorry if that's not true.

But you agree, right?

To give four kids a house.

All right, you guys, here you go.

Yeah.

Even if there's not a problem, it just feels like it's easy for a problem to exist because then you have four different people who have four different views of life.

Yeah.

Money.

It's like when you get a gift card to a restaurant you don't really like.

You're happy for the gift card, but now you're forced to eat at Applebee's.

Oh,

geez, you just went there.

Just saying.

A shot across the bow.

I'm just saying.

Eating good in the neighborhood.

I mean, there's a lot of people that like an Applebee's.

Hey, note to self, team.

No Applebee's gift cards for Jade.

That would not go over well.

Yeah.

Where would one get you a gift card to?

I'm with you.

Asking for a friend.

Visa gift card.

Oh, no.

I want it.

I'm putting you on the spot.

20 seconds.

If I'm going to get you, Stacey and I are going to get you and Sam a gift card to a restaurant.

Where do you want?

Where do you want to go?

And it has to be national so people know it.

Okay.

Come on.

I don't know.

Jay Alexander's?

Do you guys have that?

Yeah, do you guys?

You live here too.

I'm not going to lie.

Do you guys have that?

Ken Coleman.

Are you aware you live in Middle Tennessee as well?

I wanted to say red lobster.

I don't mind that at all.

I love a good lobster.

All right.

Quick break.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside Jade Warshaw and Ken Coleman.

Thanks for being here, America.

We're here for you.

Triple 8-825-5225.

Before we get to the phones, quick question from the Ramsey Network app.

This is from Jared.

I started following your program about five months ago and have paid off two out of five credit cards.

I lost my job two weeks ago, but was given a severance package.

Should I continue attacking my debt or pause until I gain employment again?

I'm actively looking and have been interviewing.

Good question.

Very practical.

Yeah.

I mean, 100% I would pause it.

This is something we would call a storm.

So you're in storm mode.

So I love that you're working in the baby steps.

I love that you were just starting to get some momentum there.

But let's pause it for a second, get a job under our belt, and then we can push play once things normalize.

Yeah.

By the way, a real quick reminder, if you are listening via your favorite podcast app or you're watching via YouTube, this is the last segment of the show that you'll hear unless you go over to the Ramsey Network app.

And you can do that by just clicking the link in the show notes

and get to the app, and that's where you get the rest of the show

for free.

Of course, those of you listening via radio, of course we continue on so just be aware of that programming note trent joins us now in wilmington north carolina trent how can we help today

how you guys doing good how are you sir

doing well doing well what's going on how can we help

so uh i got some money in the stock market and so does my wife And I was wondering if I should take that money out to pay off some of this house debt.

I have a couple rental properties and a primary house.

One of the rental houses is completely paid off, and the next one

has $180,000 I owe on it.

And then of course I just bought my primary residence a few weeks ago.

Okay.

So you've got a paid-off rental, a rental where you owe $180,000.

And what is that one worth it if you were just to sell?

I'm just curious.

It's probably worth about $430,000.

Nice.

And then your primary house, what's the mortgage on that?

It's about $3,000 a month.

No, what do you owe?

Like the biggest.

Oh, sorry.

Sorry.

That's okay.

I owe about

$500 on it.

Okay.

Okay.

And tell us about these stocks.

Is it single stocks?

They're in mine's in an index mutual fund, and I have $260 in mine.

And then my wife has an inherited

Roth IRA, and she's got 360 in hers.

Wow.

Okay.

So the Roth IRA,

is she required to take any distribution of that or not yet?

Yeah, she has to take out, I believe it's like right at $500 a month.

Okay.

She's required to take $500 a month.

And you're talking about liquidating that.

You said there's $360 in that?

Yeah, I didn't know if I should pay off that second rental with, you know, some of my money that's in the stock and maybe some of hers, or should I just keep it all in there and just keep letting it grow as is?

I just

have a passion for rentals and stuff like that, so I'd like to get back into that, but

I wouldn't liquidate the Roth IRA because you're going to have a penalty, I believe, if you do.

Now, the mutual index fund,

that's non-retirement.

It's just a brokerage account.

Correct.

Okay.

And how much did you say again?

Tell me again.

$260.

Okay.

That one, if you wanted to, do you have any other consumer debt?

No.

Okay.

So no consumer debt.

Do you have any other retirement funds?

Just that one rental that's paid off.

That's part of your retirement, you think?

Yeah.

And what's that worth right now?

It's worth like $230 around there.

Okay.

And how old are you?

37.

Sorry, I'll be 38 in a week or so.

Listen, I just grilled you.

I understand that.

Yeah, I wouldn't touch this.

You don't have any other retirement.

If I were going to do anything, I would liquidate the other paid-for rental in order to do this to clear some of this out.

Or I would keep the paid for rental and I'd liquidate the one that's worth $4.30.

and get that and put that $250 or whatever you gain from that onto the house.

That's what I do.

That way it keeps you with the paid off rental that you're hoping will continue to add value.

And then when you're ready, you sell it for lots and lots of money one day.

And you're paying off half of your house by selling this other one that you had debt on anyway.

You're saying liquidate, sell the one that's that I owe 180 on and pay down my current house?

Is that what you're saying?

That's what I do.

Okay.

Okay.

Because I don't want to keep around a rental that I've got debt on at the expense of me living in a paid-off house.

And I think that this mutual fund that you have, for all intents and purposes, I'm treating that as a retirement account.

And from now on, I would, unless you're self-employed, I would be trying to invest in my 401k at work.

I'd be looking at a Roth IRA instead of just a brokerage account.

Okay, yeah, I am self-employed.

Okay.

Yeah.

And even setting up something like an individual 401k, something where you're getting more benefit than just this brokerage account.

It's not a bad place to start.

But even Roth IRA is good for you.

So that's just a side note.

But yeah, in your case, let's get rid of that rental and start knocking out this house.

Okay, okay.

Sounds great.

Too easy.

Yeah.

There you go.

You know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I got nothing to add over here.

I was going to say I concur.

Yeah.

There's a lot there.

I thought you did a great job.

Thank you.

Nothing to add.

Thank you, Ken.

I'm sorry.

America doesn't need to hear any more on that.

You nailed it.

Thank you.

Yeah, there you go.

Nicholas is up in Phoenix, Arizona.

Nicholas, how can we help?

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call.

You bet.

What's happening?

So I've got a health insurance question for you guys.

Me and my wife,

we've got our open enrollment coming up this Friday.

And we're trying to decide between an HSA, which I know you guys are a big fan of, or a PPO.

The one factor that's making this difficult is we have a baby due, our son, in February.

So we kind of have like a known hospital expense going into this

whatever account or whatever insurance we choose.

But we kind of got burned this past year with a PPO.

And I just checked yesterday with the low deductible between my entire family.

We've only spent $100 towards it with like $5,000 in premiums.

So I'm just trying to decide whether or not, you know, with the baby on the way, that's still complicated, or you guys would still recommend the HSA.

I love an HSA

because of the savings component to it.

And there is a part of this where, you know, you're having a baby.

You know that you're going to hit the deductible, possibly.

I mean, there's a good chance.

And so there's part of that where I like the known.

If you've done the PPO and it didn't work out for you and you know that you've kind of it's burned you, then this might be a good opportunity to switch lanes.

Yeah, we so we did the

for our daughter, for our first child, we had, we're on a PPO plan and it seemed to help out there because between the

before, like all the appointments going up to that, and then the labor and the delivery, we hit that deductible pretty quickly.

And so the actual hospital bill was only about $800.

But because it's at the beginning of the year, I kind of feel we're going to run up our deductible either way.

Yeah.

I guess I can give you guys some more details on the numbers.

Our deductible for the PPO would be $4,600 for the family, $23 per individual.

And then for the HSA, it'd be $4,600 per individual and $9,800 for the family.

So we're basically for sure going to hit the PPO deductible

and then be paying 30% co-insurance after that.

And then on the HSA, after we hit the deductible, it's 25% co-insurance.

So a little bit more coverage after we hit that high deductible.

I like having

the lower, the higher co-insurance because, like you said, even after you hit the deductible, if there's any other cost, you're still on the hook for a percentage of that.

And so I'd want to be on the hook for the lower percent.

What's the out-of-pocket max?

Yeah, so the out-of-pocket max for the PPO

is $13,800.

And then for the HSA, it's $12,800.

I like that better.

And is that for individual or that was family?

That's for family.

Individual, it's

Are you healthy?

Yeah,

my wife's 23.

I'm 24.

She's had two beautiful pregnancies so far.

I'm making this choice based on her.

And I'd probably go with the HSA.

It's got the lower out-of-pocket max and it's got the better co-insurance.

So for that reason, I'm out.

Judge Jade, folks.

She does it well.

Good hour.

This is the Ramsey Show.