Never Take Life Advice From a TikTok Video

Welcome to the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life.

Winning with your money, winning in your work, and winning with your relationships.

That's the goal.

Because if one of those areas isn't winning, it's affecting the others.

Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number.

Triple 8-825-5225.

It's your show, so that's your phone number to jump in.

Joining me today is George Camill.

I'm Ken Coleman, and we're here to coach you up.

George, we'll take all those money and budgeting questions, and I'm here to help out on that income side of things.

You want to make more money to get through the baby steps faster.

Feeling stuck, a little lack of meaning,

want to start that business.

Anything related to winning your work, I'm going to jump in on those as well.

So let's get right to it.

You ready to go, George?

Let's do this.

You got your corduroy jacket.

So your favorite.

Your fall, you're all festive and ready to go.

It's the time, even though it's 80 degrees here in Nashville for some reason.

Yeah, well, it's nice and cool in the morning.

So I like that choice today.

You look fantastic.

Thank you.

Alan is up in Washington, D.C.

Alan, how can we help?

Yes.

I

would just like to discuss something with you.

I'm on about baby step 11.

I do a lot of financial

finagling, particularly with cards.

I'm unfamiliar with Baby Step 11, and I guess most of our audience is.

What is Baby Step 11?

I understand

that Dave and you are not

very big at all on credit cards, but I think it is possible to

pay them off and to make it work.

I average about 5%

on everything that I spend.

Good for you.

I'll bet you're getting some great rewards as well.

But I want to go back to the start of the call.

What is baby step 11?

How do you define that?

Well, I just, it's what I'm saying is I've been through all the baby steps.

And

so you're debt-free.

You don't have a mortgage.

I'm accumulating money for my grandkids now.

Great.

In the legacy phase.

And, you know, I have

I'm fortunate enough to have

more than I need.

I was a big saver.

So what's your how old are you and what's your net worth?

I'm

my net worth than eight figures.

I'm 82.

Wow.

Good for you.

That's incredible.

Eight figures.

You're talking 10 million plus.

Yeah, a little over that.

Woo.

How'd you do it, Alan?

I mean, it's not credit card wars, let's be honest.

I was

a physician, and that sounds like I met a lot of money, but the most I ever met was for about five years I got a hundred and thirty five thousand

but you saved the majority of that you invested it at about eighty thousand

so

but how do you actually get ten million dollars is it twenty years of investing thirty years of investing yeah I'm you know I'm

I've certainly saved a lot probably 25%

and I've invested it mostly in the stock market.

I did

have a bunch of rentals when I was younger, but I don't want to fool with that right now.

Amazing.

Well, we can all agree.

The reason you are where you are is because you lived on less than you made and invested a big chunk for a long period of time.

Yes.

Okay.

And you can certainly do quite well.

And

there are some things I do now.

I've heard you say, you know, that it it would bother you to have

a credit card because you just don't feel good about it.

Actually,

I feel very good about having credit cards because I game them.

Great for you.

Alan, how can we help you today?

What's your question?

Is there a question here?

Or is this a statement?

Do you think there's

a role for

trying to save extra money with rewards?

And you can also buy gift cards and get a substantial discount.

Okay.

All right.

So there we go, George.

I think we've got our question now.

No, I understand.

He's saying, I've done really well.

What's wrong with this system of me gaming the credit card rewards?

I get my rewards.

I'm doing well for myself.

And I would say it's a fool's errand.

You can do it.

Clearly, you've spent a lot of time over who knows how long.

You're 82 years old.

If you've been doing this since you were in your 20s, we're talking 60 years, which is about when credit cards were invented.

I mean, in my book, Breaking Free from Broke, I actually go through the history.

And it wasn't until the 50s and 60s that the credit card was popularized.

So he's been doing it before it was cool.

And the key is, as Dave would say, no one has built wealth because of credit card awards.

Can you build wealth and use your credit card and pay it off perfectly every single month?

Sure.

But here's the deal, Ken.

The stats show we have $1.28 trillion in credit card debt.

Do you know how much we have in debit card debt?

Zero dollars.

And so when you look at the stats and where we're at as a country, I can't in good faith go tell anyone, hey, go pick up a credit card and be like Alan.

You'll be all right.

Because they're going to be the next caller who racks up a bunch of credit card debt trying to play a stupid game.

Yeah, he's a unicorn.

You're the unicorn, Alan.

Yeah.

And I aspire to be you one day at 82 with an eight-figure net worth.

But we can all agree that it wasn't because of the few thousand in credit card rewards.

It didn't hurt.

You clearly have been gaming this thing very wisely, been very frugal, very shrewd.

And those those character traits are what caused you to become very wealthy,

not because of the credit card companies blessing you.

So I just don't want to conflate the two.

And again, it's not a moral posture.

You can look into where the credit card rewards come from.

It's not pretty.

I cover that in the book as well.

But you're not a bad person, Alan, and I'm cheering you on to wealth build and build a legacy.

Yeah, well, stay there.

Where do those rewards come from?

Well, the Fed, this is, again, not my opinion, not a Ramsey research study.

The Federal Reserve did a study and found that $15 billion a year moves from the minority areas, from the less educated, from those in poverty to those that are wealthier, that are more educated.

And so there's a clear wealth transfer happening.

And again, this is not a political statement that has nothing to do with that.

It's just saying this is where the rewards actually come from.

Meaning, explain that.

Because

those that are less educated, those that have less income, are proportionately funding your rewards.

How are you?

Because they're the ones going into debt, paying the 25% APR.

That's right.

And then the credit card companies give you 2% as a thank you.

Right.

Well, the credit card companies are not charities.

They're not non-profits.

They're making billions a year.

That's right.

And so it's not entirely funded by those paying interest.

I'm not trying to make that argument.

But when you look at the actual profits of these companies, I broke down Capital One's profits and showed you exactly how much is coming from those that paid interest and fees versus, you know, merchant transaction fees.

And it was scarily in favor of the interest and fees is where they're making their money.

Of course.

And so I just, again, there's one angle is not feeling good about it.

He said, hey, it doesn't feel good.

It's not a tummy ache issue.

That's just one more

nail in the coffin for me to go, not touching the thing.

Not worth it.

I'm going to use my own money.

That's what's going to cause me to build wealth.

Would you support legislation?

It's never going to happen.

But hypothetically, I like this hypothetical.

Would you support legislation that would make credit cards illegal?

Oh,

you know, I personally would.

Again, it won't happen because we do live in a very debt-based society.

And the reason the economy is the way it is is largely because of the debt floating around all around us.

But do I think we'd all be in a better place if they just made it illegal to borrow money?

Yes.

Because I think you can make the case that it's predatory.

Their credit cards are predatory.

Absolutely.

Well, in the gamification, the psychology they use, the marketing they use,

it's really sick when you look at the experiments they run every year on customers.

Over 10,000.

An ex-Capital One manager told me that, Ken.

They're simply rats in a maze, and you think you won because you got to the cheese.

But really, you're just a rat in someone else's experiment.

Something to think about.

I think it was a worthy discussion.

Alan got it started for us today.

But remember, Alan is the minority.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships.

So excited you're with us.

George Camill joins me.

I'm Ken Coleman, 888-825-5225.

Heading into the fall.

Oh, boy, we're not heading into it.

I feel like we're here.

My goodness.

You know what tomorrow is, George?

Halloween.

Yeah.

It's your first big one as a dad, isn't it?

It's true.

Are you taking the little one out?

I hope so.

You don't know how she can't even walk.

She can't even eat candy.

Yeah.

So I don't know how far we'll get, but we're going to have to go.

But you dress her up for all the pictures.

100%.

Yeah.

What's she going to go as?

I'm not in charge of that.

Couldn't tell you.

Oh,

interesting.

That's great.

I should probably know.

You probably should.

I'm in trouble.

We'd love for you to join Rachel Cruz and the Every Dollar Team for a free live training coming up Monday, November 4th at 1 Eastern 12 Central.

That's to help you get clarity with your money.

You can register for free at Ramseysolutions.com slash webinar.

Ramseysolutions.com slash webinar.

The number one way to eliminate debt is to budget.

The number one way to build wealth is to budget.

The number one way to get on the same page with your spouse about money is to budget.

The number one way to eliminate stress in your financial life is to budget.

I'm seeing a theme here.

Thank you for paying attention.

RamseySolutions.com/slash webinar.

Rachel Cruz will be doing a free live training Monday, November 4th, 1 Eastern 12 Central Time.

Christine now is on the line in Dallas, Texas.

Christine, how can we help?

Hi, Ken, George.

Thanks for having me.

You bet.

Boy, you are a bundle of sunshine.

How can we help?

Thank you.

So, my husband and I have a a net worth close to $5 million.

All right.

Explains it.

All right.

All right.

And for the past 13 years, we've kept a spreadsheet charting every penny we've spent in various categories so we know how much we need to live on once we retire.

Wow.

You're like George's favorite petition.

This is a matter.

I want to be Christine when I grow up.

We have $200,000 to $300,000 in our bank account at all times.

And when it builds too high, we transfer the cash to Fidelity Mutual Friends.

We know where we spend money, philanthropy, travel, and wine.

And if anything happens, we know where to cut back.

We actually eat out less than we used to before we reached 1 million net worth.

We buy used cars.

And my question is, do you recommend a monthly budget for your baby step millionaire?

I know that's looking out the front window.

And we've been looking out the back window.

Interesting.

I like this concept because I think you guys should be buying nicer cars and I think you should be going to really nice dinners on on a regular day.

It sounds like you've been too frugal, and there's a scarcity mindset here.

Do you feel like you're spending enough and giving enough and saving enough?

I just recently let us get business class tickets on a regular.

Whoa, take it easy.

Now slow down, see?

That was huge.

Pump the brakes here.

Wow.

I feel like you're throwing money away now.

No, no, no, but we fly premium economy back.

We're joking.

We're actually joking.

We're saying you've earned it.

Yeah, I think business class is okay.

So you're asking, should I do a budget?

Yes, absolutely.

Maybe you can switch the spreadsheet lifestyle to the every dollar lifestyle, and I think you're going to find it far less meticulous and far more freeing.

Yeah.

I think you know at this point what you're going to spend.

And guess what?

If times get tough, we'll get back to our spreadsheet and make sure that we're

accounting for every penny here.

But every dollar is going to help you do that just the same, just without the spreadsheet.

And so

i want to know what you're doing with a 300 grand why do you need that at all times in a checking account because i'm me is it a is it a fear thing of you think if the stock market tanks and we need money or what because you guys aren't of retirement age yet it sounds like well because um My husband's a lawyer, so we pay quarterly taxes, and each quarterly this year has been $48,000.

So I have to be ready to write a $48,000 check every quarter.

So, yeah, that's kind of the big thing.

But he would have more like $100,000 in the account.

It's me.

I'm the one who wants to.

How old are you two?

56.

Okay, 56.

Now, once you're at retirement age, where you guys are maybe is work optional, then I would understand having, you know, a year or two of expenses tucked away in a high-yield savings account.

But to have 300 grand right now, it feels like you can make better use of that money by either investing it, using it toward a goal that you guys have.

I'm assuming you guys have no debt, no mortgages.

Our house is worth 1.8.

Woo!

And it's paid for.

Of course.

That's the first thing we did.

You guys are incredible.

So I would tone it down and go, okay, we know we need 50 grand once a quarter, but we don't need 300 grand all at once all year long.

So let's tone it down to a six-month emergency fund and one high-yield savings.

Let's have another high-yield savings that's accounting for the estimated quarterly taxes.

Maybe it's a sinking fund where you put in however much you need.

If it's, you know, every quarter you need 50 grand, then we're talking about 15 grand a month going into that sinking fund to the high yield savings.

Yeah, because the draws are like 10,000 or even nothing one month and then 78,000 the next month.

You've got big expenses.

And that's where that sinking fund will come in handy.

But it feels like you're leaning a little too far on the fear side right now of what if and what if.

The truth is, you're going to have the money.

We know the money's going to be there.

You guys have the money in these accounts.

Do you have money outside of retirement?

Other than the 300 grand, like a non-retirement investment account?

Yeah, we have 1.8 in the 401k, 1.8 in the house, 820 invested in Fidelity Mutual.

That's just non-retirement, the 820.

Yeah.

Okay, so think about it.

Worst case, you could liquidate some of that non-retirement money and you'd probably have long-term capital gains of, you know, likely 15% or I don't know.

Your income sounds incredibly high.

What is your household income?

$50.

$550.

$5.50 average.

Amazing.

Yeah.

You guys are crushing it.

And, you know, we get callers that are living more lavish lifestyles with far less with debt.

And so you guys are doing great.

I would encourage you to maybe increase the giving and spending arm because your savings arm, you've got the muscle there.

You're right.

You're right.

So the every dollar budget will help you force you to do that.

You can put a fun money line item for Christine, and it sounds like you guys like to travel.

You like wine.

Let's increase the experiences, upgrade the cars, do it all with cash.

I don't think you guys are the type to go crazy.

Well, I mean, just listening to her, I can't even imagine times getting tough for them because no matter what would happen to them, she would be so prepared.

There's a lot you can do here when you got a $1.8 million house, 1.8 in the 401k, 820 in the brokerage account.

I'm breathing easy.

Oh, yeah, but you get the feeling she's not.

You have a feeling that at any time it could all come crashing down.

We've got to be ready.

I can't live in that apocalyptic mindset too long.

Yeah, no.

I'd go nuts, but way to go, Christine.

And there's something to, you know, when a person has been tracking spending on a spreadsheet for that long, I mean, that's, that's a,

there's a deep emotion driving that.

And we didn't have time, nor was it really relevant.

But to tie this into the rest of the audience, going, I see myself in her, there is a, there is something in her past.

There just is.

The way that her parents

treated money, talked about money, something happened.

That created the scarcity.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because scarcity is one thing.

I mean, it's almost like she has a deep-seated fear that

things could go really bad or really quickly, and I've got to be ready.

I mean, when you're talking about somebody who says, at all times, we have $300,000 in our checking account.

We dip.

I mean, I believe her.

I think if she gets to 275,000, she goes, oh boy.

And I think she feels a lump in her throat to get 25 grand more in there.

I really believe that.

And there's something there.

And I think it's important for all of us to understand how we view money comes from something in our past.

And if we're going to get out of debt and live like no one else, we also have to deal with some of those old patterns too.

Because here she is.

She's winning on paper.

Yeah.

But she doesn't feel like she's winning.

And she's winning.

Everyone listening is rolling their eyes going, oh my gosh, this is a real problem.

But it's a real problem for Christine.

It is.

Because there's emotion behind that.

Right.

She doesn't see the sheer numbers.

I mean, most Americans, if we went on the street, did Man on the Street and you went, oh, that'd be fun.

How would you feel if you had $300,000 at all times in your checking account?

People would just start laughing hysterically.

Yeah.

I mean, that's lottery winner, I'm retiring today.

That's the kind of stuff you'd hear.

And she's going, I don't know if it's enough.

Right.

A lot of scenarios I got to account for.

Yeah.

But Rachel talks about this in her book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, The Money Classrooms.

So it's a great book for Christine.

I'm going to send it to you, Christine.

It might help you get to the root of this.

I love that.

Know Yourself, Know Your Money by our friend Rachel Cruz.

Hang on the line.

Christian will pick up.

We'll get that too.

Thanks for the call.

All right, quick break.

He's George Campbell.

I'm Ken Coleman.

You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win.

in your relationships.

888-825-5225 is the phone number.

888-825-5225.

George Camill is alongside.

I'm Ken Coleman.

We're here for you.

Today's Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by YReFi.

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Today's question comes from Veronica in Texas.

My husband and I were married a few months ago.

Before the wedding, he told me he was a successful businessman and had a net worth of just under a million.

He had stories about properties he owned, farm leases, and businesses he has invested in.

We lived together before marriage, and he rarely helped with household bills, using the excuse that my income can handle the regular expenses, and he would cover the big stuff when it came up.

Naturally, uh-oh.

Now that we're legally married, he admitted his stories were lies.

He doesn't have any assets and has over $150,000 in debt that he is behind on.

I am freaking out.

I made plans for my business based on his promises to contribute more into our shared expenses.

I have some debt from our wedding and the slow months in my business.

I'm not sure how I can keep supporting the whole household while he pays his debt off.

Where do I go from here?

I would go straight to counseling.

I don't know anywhere else to go when your relationship was built on the throne of lies.

I would go straight to the judge and I would get the marriage annulled.

I think this is.

It's a farce.

This is a fraud.

She has been defrauded.

This is not a marriage problem where we want to work out some differences.

This is straight up fraud.

I hope, you know, I really don't care what the audience thinks if they think I'm wrong there.

I really don't.

Because I think this is such a fraudulent deal.

This is, she's being completely duped.

So the question is, was that intentionally him conning her?

Yes.

It sounds like that is based on what I'm reading.

The thread and pattern of lies.

I'm going the nuclear option.

The studio audience seems to be half with me on this one.

I think this is not a counseling thing.

This is a fraud.

And this is, nope, we're done.

And I go to the judge and I tell the judge and we get this thing annulled.

And then she moves on with her life.

Now, give him the chance to get remarried if he fixes his life.

But this was entered into on such deception.

I just don't know how you go, well, we should go see a therapist.

I'm not knocking your answers.

No,

that was me being kind here to say.

Do you think I'm being outrageous?

I don't know if there's hope for this marriage.

I'll say that.

I don't think it's a marriage.

I don't think you can rebuild from that level of

dishonesty and false pretenses.

So Veronica,

I mean, James doesn't make these up.

These are real emails that we get.

People think, Ken, that we make these up for great content.

This is just the state of America, guys.

I don't know what to tell you.

Dark stuff.

Yeah, I wouldn't, yeah, this is done.

Done immediately.

The fact that she had no no idea is also worrisome.

There was no signs that this guy was like, what is he doing all day?

Well, I feel like the farmer.

You know what?

I don't want to pile on.

She's been lied to, but I think there were some signs.

I knew where this was going.

I didn't know where the email was going, but as soon as the old, he said he was worth this, but he didn't help out when we were living together because he was like, well, it's enough to live off yours.

I'll handle the big stuff.

I mean, the detector was gone.

The farm leasing is a very specific lie.

I don't know that I could even, that was not on my bingo card.

Right.

That he had a farm lease.

This is a fraud.

This is a complete shape.

This guy might need to go to jail.

Maybe.

But he's definitely going to the courthouse.

100%.

Yikes.

Mark is up in Greensboro, North Carolina.

Mark, how can we help?

Hey, guys.

Thank you so much for what you do.

I have a

mostly career with a little bit of a spiritual twist to it.

I am a pastor, and I also drive a truck.

I've been pastoring for almost three years and when I came on I was I came on in a full-time position and unfortunately the church has not done well.

The church has gone downhill and I had to go back to work driving a truck which is what I did before I started pastoring.

And bottom line is neither one of them are really working out all that great and I just don't know what to do because the church is just continuing to struggle And

I'm at a point where I feel like I have to make a decision for my family because

working, and I'm blessed, I only have to work four days a week so far as driving a truck, but even doing four days a week and trying to take care of the things at the church, I feel like I'm never at home.

And it's putting a lot of stress on my marriage and I'm at home.

And so I'm in a place where I feel like I have to step down from the church, but then I feel like I'm losing all my purpose because

I believe that I was called to be a pastor.

And so I'm just really struggling with how to move forward.

Yeah.

Well, I'm sorry you're going through this.

This is definitely tough.

I'm glad you acknowledge the calling piece.

So a calling to ministry is clear.

So you've got to honor that or you really will feel miserable.

And

then that's a really destructive type situation.

But you got your realities.

How big was the church and how were they doing when you came on board a few years ago?

When I came on board,

we probably had about 30 to 35 people.

And I know that sounds really small, but the church is completely debt-free.

And so with those 30, 35 people, we were able to sustain.

We were able to pay my full-time salary.

Which was what?

And at that point, it was

$45,000.

Okay.

And what is the reason for the struggling and what is struggling look like right now?

Well, the reason for the initial, I call it the Exodus, we had a bunch of people leave it once.

And just to be completely honest,

they chose

religion over the Bible.

So they didn't like your preaching.

Tradition.

Tradition.

Right, but they didn't.

Well, it wasn't that they didn't like my preaching.

They didn't like some of my views that I began to be honest about and share what I thought was just a typical biblical view.

I get it.

No, that's all I'll say.

I'm not.

It didn't match up with their traditional view, so therefore they thought it was unbiblical.

Right.

Exactly.

They didn't like your preaching.

That's not about style.

It's just they didn't like what you had to say.

And you just don't, you know, that when you got 35 people and you lose

a percentage, pick a percentage, you feel it.

So

you've got to acknowledge that.

You took a job that was not a good job to take.

I'm a pastor's son.

My dad pastored small churches my whole life.

And those are precarious situations because

when you have such a small flock of people

whose tithes and offerings pay your bills,

when they leave, you're toast.

And you didn't have a large group to pull from anyway.

So I'm not knocking your decision as much as I'm just being honest with you.

You took on a lot lot of risk when you decided to become a pastor of such a small church.

That's the reality.

So now we've got to survive and the thing is going downhill.

So you have two options.

Your options are, one, you go all in on the church and you start trying to get people to come to that church, but that's a lot on you.

And that's not the best way to grow churches.

However,

you go out there and you act like a church plant.

You get some support, maybe from some organizations that will take care of you for a year, and you try to build the thing back up.

You try to build it from scratch with people that want to hear your type of preaching.

That's one option.

The other option is, is you walk away from this knowing that you're not walking away from ministry, you're walking away from this particular situation.

And you stay in the truck

until you can make a transition or you go get another job that pays you 40 to 45,000 until you can make another transition and you join another church staff, a larger church staff, get some maturity in ministry, learn some more.

I mean, those are your two options.

You got to take care of you and your family.

And that's not you walking away from the call.

That's you being a good steward, which the Bible is also clear about.

But you got to reset.

I think those are your two options.

So I appreciate the call.

It's tough stuff, George, right there.

That's tough.

I mean, if I'm him, I might go, can I be an associate pastor at another church that is thriving that can get me in a position to do this calling?

That's right.

He's got a lot of options within ministry, parachurch ministries, if he wants to do that.

But that's like going to a new job or he stays in the truck for a while, walks away now, but he's got to shore up his income or else now

your ability to minister is

affected.

Can't give up both right now.

So thanks for the call.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman and George Campbell is alongside 888-825-5225 is the phone number.

Let's go to Chris in Paducah, Kentucky.

Chris, how can we help?

Hello, Chris.

You're live on The Ramsey Show.

How can we help?

Hey, guys.

Thanks for taking my call.

You bet.

I was wondering, my wife and I are building what she calls our tow tag home.

Or your what home?

Toe tag.

Toe tag?

Okay.

I'll be honest, I'd never heard that before.

I didn't know if that was a Kentucky thing.

Right.

I didn't know what he was saying.

I don't know where she got it from, but he calls it.

It's a little bit morbid, but I like it.

It's creative.

Yeah, she's kind of that way.

Yeah.

Okay.

But anyway, we're looking to spend, or I'm wondering, is $450,000 to build this house?

Is that appropriate in relation to our $1.2 million

net worth?

So your current net worth is $1.2 million?

Correct.

Do you own a home now?

Yes, that we're selling, yes.

Okay.

And what's that home worth?

Or what's your equity?

I'm going to say about $350.

We'll get out of it, I think.

Okay.

And you want to build a $450?

Correct.

And what's the concern?

Is it

too much?

I mean,

she's fully retired.

She's fully retired.

I'm semi-retired.

How old are you guys?

I'm sorry.

How old are you two?

She is 68 and I am 58.

Oh, the older woman, huh?

Nice.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

So your question is, as it relates to your net worth, there's no problems there.

The really, the only parameter you're looking at when it comes to buying this home is can we handle the mortgage?

Can it be 25% of her take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage?

Is that going to be the case?

No, I was looking to spend

just use all cash.

Oh, all cash.

He's getting through a mortgage.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, so there's no problems here.

And I'll tell you the stats on this, Chris.

We did our millionaire study, over 10,000 of them.

And just as a general ballpark, we found that the millionaires, their homes made up about a third of their net worth.

And so you're right on track.

Okay.

And even if it was, hey, it's going to be 50% of our net worth, but our net worth is $5 million.

Well, who cares?

It's about can I retire with dignity?

Will I have the income from my assets and my investments to replace it in order to cover my expenses in retirement.

And as long as you guys are on track with your retirement goals, get as much house as you'd like.

Okay.

Yeah, it's a yes.

It's a yes for us, Chris.

We love when it's all green lights on this show.

Yeah.

Oh, boy, that is funny.

Usually we're trying to talk someone off the ledge and we're trying to tell Chris, go for it.

Yeah, he wants to pay cash.

That's amazing.

We're not going to yell at him for that.

And I would also say, if you're heading into retirement, your goal should be to not have a mortgage.

Yeah.

That's going to really reduce how much you need to cover your expenses.

Yeah.

That's interesting.

Good place to be.

Joel is up next in Knoxville, Tennessee.

Joel, how can we help?

Yeah,

I am trying to figure out, you know, me, me and my wife have been listening to your show for a long time.

We love it.

Thank you.

We've been here as a long time, and we'd like to be doers, not just hearers only.

Ooh,

dropping some scripture on us there, just you're doers of the word.

Oh, boy.

But that being said, you know, we are on Babys up 2 and trying to figure out how much we should be budgeting to put towards our debt snowball every month

well the answer is simple as much as possible

all right okay yeah yeah I mean what do you need to cover your your bare bones expenses if we're talking grocery shopping utilities your housing transportation you know fuel maybe insurance or any sinking funds for you know maintenance repairs so beyond that how much can you throw at the debt every month

so that's a good question so I guess guess let me give you a little more detail.

Even though we're on babysitter two, we kind of just jumped into it.

It's just I was able to pull $1,000 out to get Pat Babylon pretty fast.

So I did

budget getting every dollar app and I put everything in there.

And from what it looks like initially, about $600 a month.

However,

I think

there's more.

You know, I think there's stuff that we can shave off that we are spending right now monthly.

I think so.

And things like that.

what's your total debt

uh about 70 000 a little less than that pretty close to it and what's your household income about 110 105 000 somewhere around there okay and we found that the average person that's following this ramsey baby steps with gazelle intensity so they're not fooling around they're going scorched earth on the every dollar budget they pay off their debt with between 18 and 24 months So that's your good kind of ballpark to go, okay, based on what we're currently doing, if it's going to take three years, we've got a problem.

We need to upper income.

We need to cut our spending.

But if you're telling me, you know, right now it's going to take $600 a month at $70,000, that sounds like it's going to take a decade.

Yeah.

So something's not adding up here.

Okay.

So making $110 a year, why is there only $600 a month left?

That's a fantastic question.

And the budget will tell you that.

This is not a trick question.

The budget will reflect, oh, we're spending $800 on eating out.

We're spending $400 on Amazon.

And

now we can go, all right, we need to cut this.

We're both agreeing, you know, spit shake.

We're not going to spend this money.

Now, okay, so that, let me get to, I think I can clear up that a little bit.

So that goes back to when I mentioned, you know, I think there's more that we can shave off.

So, you know, previous to this, we had

certain allotments like, you know, spending money.

And so it was $200 a piece for me and a wife.

So that's another $400 a month.

We have way too many subscriptions.

And I have them all listed out.

I have to add them up to the actual total.

So I say that to say I have 600 that is currently not budgeted as far as based on last, like what we spent last month.

That's where these numbers are coming from.

So I have work to do to cancel some of these things and stop paying for things we've been paying.

Yes.

But it's...

And there's more you can do.

Number one, are you guys doing any investing right now?

I think she's paying into her 401k.

We're going to pause that.

You're going to get a few hundred bucks back easily right there.

Are you getting a refund every year on your taxes?

No, it's basically a draw.

Okay.

Have you reshopped your insurance in the past year across the board?

No.

So you can go do that.

Ramseysolutions.com slash coverage.

We can help you save some money there and probably get you better coverage than you have.

A lot of people just don't realize they're overpaying.

So there's a lot of things you can do on top of cutting subscriptions.

We're not eating out, cut the fund money down to the bare minimum.

What do we need to just have a semblance of joy to get through the next month?

It's probably not 200 bucks a month apiece.

We can probably make this work with far less.

So all of that combined on top of making more, which Ken can get into, is going to help you get out of debt way faster.

And my goal for you guys would be two years or less.

Sure.

Yeah.

So what can you do outside of your full-time jobs to make more?

Overtime, side hustles?

Yeah, so I have been, actually i've worked overtime the past six weeks and the number i gave you is not counting overtime so i i have been getting overtime i can't always get overtime but when i can't um i fix computers i buy and resell stuff that's broken so yeah you know what i would be doing you know i'd be telling everybody that'll listen in your social groups online in social media um that you can do this this and this from a technology standpoint you might be surprised how many small businesses might pick you up because they don't have a true you know tech person i mean here's here's what you're doing when you start thinking through that.

One of the things that I find works for me or worked for me when we were in this situation years ago was, okay, let me reverse engineer this thing and go, if I wanted to pay off all my debt in two years or one year, you just start playing with these numbers.

What would I have to do?

What would I have to make or put towards the debt?

And so if you go, okay, that's $3,000 a month to get it paid off in two years, just making this up.

That's real close.

Now, is it close?

Very.

Yeah.

So it's like, okay, that to me is a much easier goal than 70,000 psychologically.

Yes.

I go, all right, if I, what do I got to do to put three grand a month towards debt?

That to me, it gives me the intensity that I need and the intentionality that I need, but it feels doable, George.

Now, again, that's just in my weird.

You turn into facts and reality instead of, well, I don't know how long it's going to take or I hope.

Yeah.

I love that mentality.

You know what happens, by the way?

Then you start going, oh, if I put 4,000 one month away, that means I get there faster.

And, oh, one month, we actually got five we put towards it.

That's the kind of mentality that, Stacey, you know, most people, it's faster than they think once they get going.

That's exactly.

Because they're willing to do whatever it takes.

What can we give, Joel, to encourage them on the journey?

I'm going to give you Breaking Free from Broke.

And along with that, it's my book.

You'll get three months of Every Dollar Premium to help you lay all this out.

Read the Margin as Breathing Room chapter.

It's got tons of ideas to help you spend less and make more, specifically.

He's coming across as George Claus, but he's George Camille.

And I'm Ken Coleman, and this is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life.

We want you to win in your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships.

Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number.

If you'd like to jump in, I'm Ken Coleman.

George Camill is alongside.

Triple 8-825-5225.

Let's go out to the West Coast.

Nicole is there in the Los Angeles area.

Nicole, how can we help today?

Hi, so thanks for taking my call.

I'm basically a 26-year-old.

I'm having relationship complications due to financial issues.

I racked up.

I have about 130 total in debt.

About 100,000 of that is student loan.

1,000 of that is credit card.

About 21 of that is auto loan.

And I just, I cannot get on my feet.

I lived in Alaska for a bit, and then I came down here with family.

and like I just cannot service my payments.

Like it is check to check.

I live with family so I don't have rent right now.

But I mean, I'm just struggling and it's putting strains on my life and I'm going to try not to get emotional about it.

But

that's all right.

I really, I really just need some help.

Yeah.

Well, listen, we got you.

We're here for you.

And it's going to be okay.

And we've helped a lot of people in your situation.

We really have.

So, A, it's good for you to feel this, but you're going to be okay.

We're going to help.

So, tell us about

where you're at, Nicole.

Are you working right now?

Yeah, I'm working full-time.

I've had an interesting field in marine biology.

So, you know, my field's kind of competitive for what it is.

I am working full-time.

My salary right now is about $44 a year.

Is that normal for your area?

That's about a good starting point for my area.

you know, a lot of positions these days are calling for entry level.

They want like your master's or PhD, which is like super unrealistic, but that's the job market that everybody's in right now.

Um,

so yeah, right now it's it's a great job for where I'm at right now, honestly.

Okay.

Well, I'll tell you this.

Looking, if I'm just seeing these numbers, it feels like a lot of car for someone making 44.

It's about half your income tied up in this car.

Yeah, yeah.

How much is the car worth?

So they gave it to me at, well, not gave it to me.

That'd be nice.

I got the car for, I think it was $23,000.

It's a 2018 through Brew Forrester.

They gave me a stupid interest rate because I had,

I was in a terrible relationship before, and I, of course, just said, here, use whatever you need it for, and destroyed my credit completely.

I got myself out of the things I had in collections.

So recovering my credit has been like a huge part of this journey as well.

What's your car payment?

$4.88 a month.

What's the car worth?

Could you sell it today and get get something out of it?

I think I could get $18 for it, is what I found locally.

Is that private party value?

Yeah.

Okay.

How much do you have in savings, if anything?

I have nothing.

And are you behind on any of these payments?

Absolutely.

Almost every single one of them is about to hit a 30-day mark.

So they're about to all go to collections?

Student loans, the credit card, the car loan, everything?

Yeah.

When I moved down here, I had about seven months of being jobless.

And because I left Alaska due to my lease ending and I couldn't find more housing,

I chose to be down here with family.

I tried to find a job in my field.

I couldn't collect unemployment because I technically chose to leave my job.

At least that's the way the government sees it.

So

I couldn't get any financial assistance from anything.

I found a really great job, worked it for two months, and then they decided that they were going to downsize the company.

So last hired, first fired.

Have you looked into an income-driven repayment program for your student loans to get that payment lower?

Yeah, so for my student loans.

Yeah, for my student loans, they just knocked me down to a payment of $386 a month for that.

And then,

you know, I've been keeping up with everything federally.

So half my student loans are federal, and then the other half is private.

The private is the one that I was able to negotiate.

And for my federal, they currently have a $0 repayment plan just because of my financial situation.

Okay.

And you're living with family.

Are they able to help at all?

No.

Okay.

Here's the deal.

Do you need a car to get to work right now?

Are you a place where there's public transportation or you could get a ride?

Um I yeah, I absolutely need the car.

I my work is actually about an hour and a half from home and there's not metro or bus transportation where it's at.

There is that in LA, but not where I work.

So.

Okay.

The glaring thing that you can do to get out of this hole is get rid of this car, but you're going to need the amount you're upside down on.

That's 3,000.

So you could now it sounds like a credit shot.

So the chances of you going to your local credit union and getting a loan for, let's say, $8,000 and use three to get rid of the car, use five to get a beater car, I don't know that that's going to work out.

But that's what I would attempt to do.

If I was in your shoes, because that'll get you out of the car payment, give you back 500 bucks a month to then help you climb out of these other ones.

You can knock out the credit card debt real quick.

That's $1,000.

Then all you have left of the student loans, right?

Right.

Yeah, this is really doable, Nicole, but I got to tell you, you know what the big thing is here?

You got to go get more income.

That is the MRI, George.

I don't know where she can cut.

She's living with family.

Well, the math problem here is you took $100,000 in student loans to go make $40,000.

And so it's just a mountain to climb.

Yeah, yeah, it is.

And, you know, really,

like, my parents were always the ones who were like, you have to go to college to get a degree.

And I did.

And unfortunately, literally my four years was during COVID.

So, and I am not an online learner.

And I mean, I tried and they were just like, well, take out another loan.

You have to get through school.

Take out another loan.

Oh, my gosh.

Let me tell you, Nicole, it's not all your fault, but it is your responsibility.

And I know it feels like, gosh, all life has happened to me that's led me here.

But the part that you can take accountability for, the part that you can control, that's what's going to get you out of this.

That's right.

But Nicole, I just want you to see something really quick.

Do you see if you added some more income and you got rid of that car payment that you would have some room to breathe?

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, that's the first step.

We got to get room to breathe because you're just feeling so much pressure and we get it.

Okay.

So room to breathe.

That means more income right now

for two, three, five, six, eight months.

Super intense.

Let's get the car situation gone.

Get the payment out of your life.

And George is right.

The $1,000 credit card, that's nothing either.

You knock both of those out.

That's going to bring real money.

Now, it's a long haul for you on the $100,000 grand in the student loan debt, but it's very doable if that's the only thing you got and you got more income, correct?

Yeah.

Okay, then.

So you came on this call overwhelmed, and boy, oh boy, do we understand that, George?

But, but, Nicole, this is doable, but you are going to have to make more money.

I'm not saying walk away from your marine biology job, but at this stage of your life, uh, driving an hour and a half, I would change some things in my life in the short term.

And it may be the job to make more money, multiple jobs, get this thing right size so you can breathe, George?

Yeah, I mean, if you can go make 20 bucks an hour once you get home from your job and do that for 20 hours, I mean, that would

add another, what, 50% of your income back in there.

20 bucks an hour full time, that's 40 grand a year.

And that's what you're making right now with your core income.

So Ken's right, we got to get the income up.

There's only so much more we can do to cut the expenses.

But eventually, I'd love for you to move out and get closer to work if that's where you want to go.

But right now, we got to clean up this little mess and get rid of the car.

That's right.

That's A1.

We're going to help you out.

I'm going to send you every dollar premium to help you make a plan for your money, along with my book, Breaking Free from Broke, to give you the path.

We believe in you, Nicole.

You got this.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman.

George Camill is alongside 888-825-5225 is the number.

Anson is joining us in Wichita, Kansas.

Anson, how can we help?

Hey, my name is, how's it going?

Good.

How are you?

Oh, not too bad.

So, recently, my grandfather passed away, and he worked for Boeing and NASA for about 35 years.

He was also in the United States Army.

And when he passed away, when his will was read out, he left me and my two older brothers

a very hefty sum of $3 million in his will,

along with equal shares of his estate in Miami.

Wow.

Three million each.

$3 million each, yes.

Wow.

And I have absolutely no idea what to do with that kind of money.

I think the biggest paycheck I've ever seen was like $2,500 for two weeks.

And

how long ago did you know what to do with it?

I got it back in July, and I don't get to touch it until I'm 21.

That was part of the agreement was when I turn 21, then I get full access to the funds.

How old are you now i have i'm 20.

i turned 21 in may okay

wow and i want to know what to do with it i have no idea what to do i i want to know should i sit on it for you know 20 years and let it you know accumulate interest in a bank somewhere you know take some of it out and and you know buy a house you know not something super huge or invest it um you know

put it in a rough ira i mean you know what what should be the next step for somebody who's 20 years old and just became a multi-millionaire?

Well, number one, I would, like you're doing, take great pause and care with this and go, okay, I want to make sure that I manage this wisely.

This was a big legacy, a big responsibility put on my shoulders.

And I want to be able to do the same thing for my grandkids one day versus squandering it.

And your grandfather obviously did a great job to manage his investments wisely, allow it to grow.

He's in real estate.

He's in mutual funds.

And I would encourage you to do the same over a long period of time.

So I would make sure this sets you up well for success.

That might mean, you know, buying a reasonable house in cash and investing the rest.

What do you want to do?

What's the let's assume that?

Let's just assume for a moment that the inheritance isn't there.

What were you on track to doing, or at least thinking about doing with your life?

So, right now, I'm a full-time diesel mechanic.

I manage a diesel shop close to where I live.

And about a year and a half ago, I bought a used early 2000s camper trailer that I towed behind my pickup.

And I was working in the oil field.

And then I switched over to being a diesel mechanic just to be able to stay closer to one spot.

And I've been living in the trailer.

My rent's $500 a month.

I own the trailer outright.

I have no vehicle payments.

I bought a $2,500 beater pickup, and I traded that for my current truck that I have now.

And so

I have no other payments other than my internet and my phone bill and my rent.

And I think my total monthly expenses is maybe under $2,000.

And I was on track to saving up to go to Wellingtrade School.

But

since about a month ago, I've been more steering down the road to just

going to college for my degree in diesel mechanics and getting actually a piece of paper that says, yeah, I know how to do this.

And that was kind of the path I was going down.

I have a personal savings before I got the inheritance of about $25,000, $26,000 that I've been

into for about the last five years.

I tell you this right now, Anson, I'm not worried about you squandering this money.

Not after

the caricature you just kind of painted for us.

That's fantastic.

Let me ask you this.

Do you, on the diesel mechanic thing, did you want to eventually open up your own shop and own your own business?

Yeah, eventually, yeah, that would be kind of the long-term goal.

You know, I'd like to get some experience under somebody else's wing.

You know, I've been been doing it, you know, love that.

I mean, I got my first job at 14 and I was on a ranch working, you know, combines and trucks and stuff like that.

So it's something that I really like to do.

I like working with my hands.

Yeah.

So let me ask you this.

And the goal is to, yeah, have a shop.

You've got plenty of money if you want to go to college, but I just got to believe that there's a shorter way for you to get that certification that, hey, I know how to do this.

Am I right?

I'm assuming there's a trade school for diesel mechanics.

It's not a college.

Yeah, and there is.

is, but along with, and the only reason I were away from actual trade school is along with,

you know, getting a degree in, you know, I could take a major in, say, diesel mechanics or whatever, but I could also take a minor in business.

Great, go for it.

So I could kind of knock out two bucks.

Go for it.

So there's somewhere in money right there.

So based on the school that you want to go to.

And you get into and whatever that cost, there's a chunk of change right there, George.

So we now know kind of where he wants to go.

I was trying to dig that out for you.

I mean, education is a great next goal.

And like Ken said, what's the best way to do that and the most cost-effective way?

We don't need to go blow the money just because we have it.

And then beyond that, you're going to have future goals.

You don't need to go out and buy real estate just because you're 21 with a bunch of money.

But when the time is right and you want to buy a home for yourself or maybe for you and someone you meet and you get married, that's a great next goal.

And to do that with cash.

And even if you spend $500,000, let's say, between the education and the home and you get your life set up, that still leaves you with $2.5 million, right?

Right.

Yeah, exactly.

And so if you connect with a smart investor pro, ramseysolutions.com, you need a trusted team to walk with you.

One person is going to be that investment pro.

Another one would be a trusted real estate agent.

Another one would be a tax pro.

And you can get connected with all three of those at ramseysolutions.com and click on trusted services.

But I crunch the numbers for you, Anson, to show you what this could turn into.

From 21 to 61, you put $2.5 million in an account.

Let's say it's growth stock mutual funds, whether it's retirement or not, at a 10% rate of return, which has been the average we've seen in the stock market, that would be $134 million at 61 years old.

Wow.

Does that not blow your mind?

Wow.

Wow.

I didn't even think about that.

That's crazy.

I feel like that's putting a smile on grandpa's face.

And it's not because you're storing treasures on Earth.

Think about the impact you could have in your lifetime on your family, your community, the country with $134 million.

You would become what's known as a philanthropist with that kind of money.

And so I want you, the part that's going to be difficult is starting to change your mindset while also keeping the same life you have.

Like Ken mentioned, we're not going to go retire tomorrow.

I want you to sink your teeth into something that really puts some pep in your step.

And that might mean the job that pays you 80 grand.

That's great.

And let this money cook and let it do its thing.

And when the time is right, and as you mature and get older, you're going to have different goals for generosity and for spending.

Well, and I would say, too, if you talk with the Smart Investor Pro, put some away for retirement, but put some away for

benefactor, being a benefactor.

For instance, let's say because you came into all this money that you invest some money in about 15, 20 years from now, it's a pretty large number.

And all of a sudden, you start some type of a school for maybe underprivileged kids who are good with their hands and like wear their hands to go straight from high school.

right into the workforce.

And you have a local training program that is attached to your business.

And I'm not trying to hang that on you.

I'm just saying, like, that gets funny.

It's funny that you say that.

It's funny that you say that, actually, because the place that I work for actually does that.

We take about five special needs kids a week from one of the local school districts and we bring them in and we let them wrench on stuff.

And that you said that because that was actually part of my, you know, if I ever did have a mechanic shop, I'd want to have a separate, you know, place is like connect with one of the school districts, get some kids out here, you know, that are wanting to be mechanics or that just want to come

around on a car for an afternoon.

And that was kind of, you know, in the back of my mind.

And kind of go back on the whole spouse thing, too.

I've been dating the same woman for going on four years now since we were 16.

And we met in high school.

And I

told her that I inherited some money, but I didn't tell her how much.

And I'm holding out on that only for the sheer reason because, you know, I want to kind of have it and be sure that I have it, you know, before

I think that's wise.

Yeah.

That'll skew the relationship when you go, oh, and by the way, I just inherited $3 million.

So I think it's wise to wait even until you're married to go, hey, I told you I inherited some money.

I wanted to do this the right way.

Here's what this is.

Here's what my plan is to do with this.

I'm managing this, you know, on behalf of someone else, really.

Yeah, love that.

All right.

Quick break.

We'll be right back.

He's George Camille.

I'm Ken Coleman, and this is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman, and George Camill is alongside triple 8-825-5225.

Well, George, we've been talking about this for a while, and I feel like it's going to be here before we know it.

I told you last time, I hope you get your sunscreen.

70 SPF, I hope.

I think I'm going to see if there's an 80 out there.

If there's an 80, you're buying it.

Got to protect this temple.

I will tell you.

Live like no one else cruise.

It's a thing.

We're setting sail on the open seas, George.

March 22 through 29, 2025.

This is a premium Caribbean cruise.

Turks and Caicos, Puerto Rico, St.

Thomas, and the Bahamas, all on the docket.

Holland America's new Stotten Dam ship is just absolutely beautiful.

The food is great.

We've got all kinds of great content coming your way from the Ramsey personalities.

Dave Ramsey, we've got special guests, Stephen Curtis Chapman, comedian Trey Kennedy, world-class chef, Monique Chohan, and country music legend Deanna Carter.

And don't forget, we've got the Spa Fitness Center and Pickleball Courts where I will be daily hanging out, teaching people how to play.

If you want to be taught, and if you want to compete, I'll be there to compete as well.

And I wouldn't dare.

I wouldn't darken the door of that court.

That's not true.

In fact, you will be out there because I recently

we played.

We had a personality outing, and you got out there, and you improved.

I improved, but you still crushed me like a bug.

Did you enjoy the experience other than being crushed?

Yes, I will admit it.

All right.

It was fun.

Coach Ken made it fun.

Ramseysolutions.com slash cruise, Ramseysolutions.com slash cruise, or click the link in the description in the show notes if you're listening on YouTube, excuse me, watching on YouTube and listening via your favorite podcast.

We have some folks in the lobby today watching.

Are any of you going on the cruise?

Any cruise or any cruisers?

Okay.

No.

Oh, all right.

We got one.

What lady's thinking about it?

She's going to talk to her husband.

She's on the fence.

She's trying to convince him.

He doesn't look to be very enthused about it at all.

At all.

I don't think he's anything.

She booked it as a surprise, probably.

He just found out.

There we go.

Oh, that's awkward.

Oh, boy.

Well, we'll talk to them during the commercial break and provide some counseling as well.

888-825-5225 is the phone number.

Alexa is joining us now in Cleveland, Ohio.

Alexa, how can we help?

Hi.

I am getting married in March, and I have some money saved up.

I've been investing.

I'm debt-free now.

But my fiancé, he has some student loan debt.

And I was just wondering if I should use the money that I've saved up to buy a house for us or if I should just keep saving and then put it towards the debt after we get married.

Do you want the fun answer or do you want the correct answer?

Probably the correct answer is what I need to hear.

The correct answer would be, let's keep saving knowing that we have this upcoming expense.

If you knew you had to cover a broken HVAC six months from now, we're probably not going to go blow it on a vacation.

We're probably going to go, all right, let's save up knowing we got to cover this HVAC.

It's on its way out.

I would look at this debt the same way.

You know, you're getting married to this person.

And here's the hard part.

You have to grieve the dream that you were going to buy a house on this timeline.

That, man, this time in 2024, I'm going to buy the house.

And now it's, all right, let's clean up the mess that he made.

And the house will be delayed by another six months or whatever it is.

And do the math because most likely with dual income, I assume he'll be working full time, you'll be working full time.

Yes.

Combining your incomes and then having no debt because you are able to help pay this off once you're married is going to then expedite the process to get the down payment in the emergency fund.

Okay.

Have you done the math on that?

I mean, yeah, we've done the math on how long it should take us to pay it off.

And we started from ground zero.

He has $130,000.

That's nothing to shake a fist at.

And what will his income be?

His income's about $112,000.

Okay.

And what's your income?

Mine's about $70,000.

And how much do you have saved?

I have about $45,000 right now.

Okay, and that would be including your emergency fund?

Yes.

How much do you think you'll have saved by March of 2025?

Well, with wedding expenses, I'm hoping about $50,000.

Okay.

And is he going to work on paying these loans off before the wedding?

He is working on it right now.

He's putting extra money towards it.

Good.

Okay.

So my guess is, you know, you guys are a young couple.

I always advise renting for a year anyways.

There's just a lot going on.

The wedding alone is so stressful.

On top of home ownership and all the details and work that goes into that.

I would just rent for a year, work on paying off the debt, save up a down payment, and you'll be there in no time.

All right.

Well, thank you.

Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you for calling.

No fun.

The fun answer was going to be, just go buy a house, live your dreams.

He can kick rocks.

You'll deal with that later.

That's not how marriage works.

No, no.

But George, you're not here.

I'm not here to give the fun fun answer.

Unfortunately, it would be a very different show.

That would be, yeah, buy the Lamborghini.

Life is short.

Brain the 401k.

Who cares?

Who needs to retire?

Leave it to chance.

You only live once.

Gosh, what a bizarro world that would be.

Yeah, but shockingly, probably popular.

That's true.

People want to hear what they want to hear.

That's right.

We have to be the bearers of bad news most of the time.

Kristen is now joining us in San Antonio, Texas.

Kristen, how can we help?

Yes, sir.

I have owned my own residential cleaning business probably for the past six or seven years.

And it's just myself as a sole proprietor.

And I absolutely love it.

It's my passion.

And I do very well.

And I've just come across y'all's you know system of things and I have the Every Dollar app,

really serious about budgeting.

But I am kind of a little scared.

I'm about 43 years old and I do not have a 401k

or savings,

and I'm not sure how I can do that as far as,

I mean, if I expand my business or do I invest it?

Just wanted to run it by and see what y'all think.

Give us a little bit of the numbers there.

So, what are you paying yourself, and then how much left over do you have?

I'm assuming that you are paying yourself out of your business account.

So, what kind of savings do you have in the business?

And what are you paying yourself?

So, basically, what I'm doing is I am taking out for my expenses and taxes, as well as my tithing, of course.

And so, after those

expenses,

I'm about $3,000 a month right now.

Okay.

So, do you have anything stacked into your savings account for your business?

No, sir.

What are you doing with the extra $3,000?

Or what have you been doing with it?

It's just been going to bills, honestly.

We have some debt.

Oh, okay.

I didn't realize you had some debt.

Okay, maybe we should start there.

And you said we.

Okay.

Is there a spouse involved?

Yes, sir.

Are they working full-time?

Yes.

Okay.

So what is the household income?

When you file your tax tax return, what's that number?

I would say a total of about one hundred and five.

Okay.

And how much of that was yours from your work?

About about forty thousand.

Okay.

And do you guys have any debt?

Yes.

What kind?

And how much?

So we have some consumer debt that we have a debt

consolidation, about thirty seven thousand in that.

We have about a $7,000

truck that we are paying off soon

and

a house of about $250,000.

Okay.

So we'll leave the house for later.

But if you're following these baby steps, your next step would not be to start investing, which I want you to do at 43.

Trust me.

But we've got to clean up this mess so that we have the margin to then invest.

So we're not trying to do 17 things at once.

So making $105,000, if you really got on that $3 budget and you went, all right, we're going to batten down the hatches, no fun spending, we're not going to eat out, how quickly could you pay off that, what is it, $44,000 in debt?

I'm not 100% sure.

I think our expenses are

close to about $5,000.

And you're bringing home how much?

I'm bringing home about 3,000.

And he brings home about, let's say, five?

Probably eight.

So there's probably a few grand left over that we need to start chunking at this debt.

Because think about it, two grand a month, that's 24 grand a year.

This thing's done in less than two years.

And by 45, we're now investing 15% of our household income into retirement.

And you can look into a solo 401k or a SEP IRA, and a Smart Vestor Pro can help you with that.

Jump on ramseysolutions.com.

Click on trusted services when the time is right because you do have a lot of options to to invest as a solopreneur.

He is George Campbell, and I'm just thrilled to be next to him.

I'm Ken.

This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman.

George Campbell is alongside.

888-825-5225 is the phone number.

Today's Ramsey Network app question is from Sydney.

My husband and I have been debt-free since 2019.

We work hard to be able to enjoy life and save for our future.

However, my brother-in-law, his wife, and four children were evicted recently for the second time in three years.

Ouch.

Their parents refused to let them stay in their home.

Warning sign, number two.

Staying in our home is not an option either.

I told my husband I was willing to pay for them a one-week stay in a hotel, but no more.

He now wants us to go in half with their third brother to purchase a home so the evicted brother can move in and pay us rent.

They are not respectful of property, have no steady income, and I could see this being a disaster.

How do I convince my husband this is an unwise move

by laying down

some

groundrels and be as firm as possible?

You got to have a vote in this marriage, and that vote is a hard no.

Yeah, I feel like I'd go back and go, dear husband, do you remember that point last week when I said I'd be willing to pay for a one week stay in a hotel, no more, no less?

Do you recall that conversation?

To which point he goes, yes.

And I'd start there.

This is insane.

She's got her head completely on her shoulders the right way.

She knows exactly what's going on.

She needs to walk him through exactly what's going to happen.

The worst case scenario.

They're going to destroy the property,

never pay rent, and then stay there until one of the brothers gets sick of this and goes, we have to evict them.

This is insanity that we're enabling the misbehavior.

Yeah, and now you've got yourselves into debt, and now you've created potential.

Not more paying that mortgage, by the way.

The two brothers have to pay.

Yeah.

So this is creating, she's nailed it.

This is a disaster.

He's got to wash his hands of this.

And I think there's other ways to help.

I want to see them help them get on their feet to where they can sustain themselves instead of propping their life up.

So I guess our advice is she has to tell him all of the realities and how they're going to play out.

Not just a worst case scenario because there's a strong chance that the worst case scenario is going to happen.

There needs to be some boundaries put in place here.

I mean, the parents of this kid, this adult who's acting like a kid, won't even take it.

Mom and dad said, you're not coming near our house.

That tells you a lot.

Yikes.

And she knows this.

They're not respectful of property.

There's no steady income.

She sees this being a disaster.

I don't know how he doesn't see that at this point.

I don't either.

He's choosing not to see it, is the truth.

Oh, my goodness.

Well, thank you for all of you that are in the app.

The app is, the Ramsey Network app is, boy, it's just really, really taken off.

People are all over it.

So I want to point out: if you're listening to the show right now on YouTube or podcast, this is your last segment.

Those of you on radio will continue on.

So you got to head over to the Ramsey Network app to finish after this segment because we've got more calls coming your way.

So you can go get the app by clicking in the link to the show notes, however, you're taking in the show.

And it's easy, easy, easy.

And you can download it right now.

So go do that.

All right, back to the phones.

Bijan in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

How can we help?

Yeah.

Hey, how are you doing today?

Doing well.

Okay.

So

right now,

the main main problem, not a problem, but I have a house right now.

It's worth about $400,

$400,000 to about $440,000.

I want to say around that range, $400,000 to $440,000.

And I took out a home equity line of credit on the house for $50,000.

Now, I was re I watched this one video about if you put the 50,000 back in on the house, it will drop the,

it will make it so that you pay more on the principal and less on the interest, which is somewhat true.

I put about 40,000 on back into the house, which the payment, which the mortgage payment stayed the same.

I want to say that instead of the principal, me paying like, um,

it's basically only $100 difference that I pay, that I saved myself that goes towards principal versus the interest for the whole $50,000.

Now, the $50,000 cost about $250 a month in interest.

I have to pay about $250 a month on interest on the 50 000 and it only saved me a hundred dollars

a hundred dollars more goes towards principal versus the interest so in all it's almost like i'm losing a hundred and fifty dollars for like no reason so i'm kind of curious as to what y'all think about that because i

am thinking about kind of like

I don't see myself really paying back that 50,000 anytime soon.

So I'm thinking about trying to sell the house.

bejohn

here's here's how i'll tell you how i think about this go back and watch this clip and just listen to yourself you're gonna go what have i done this is madness i did all these back flips in order to try to pay down the house early when i could have just paid down the house early so what you're describing is called velocity banking and i know you saw like a guy on instagram being like here's what they don't want you to know here's how to pay off your house early take out a heloc and it's going to apply more to the print.

Right.

You saw this one guy and you went, all right, I guess I'll take out a HELOC.

Easy enough.

And here we are spinning in circles, chasing our tail.

What you could have done and what you should do is just pay extra to the principal every single month.

That's the simplest way and the least risky way to do this.

What you've done now is added risk because that HELOC, if you don't pay it, they can take your house.

Right.

Your house is collateral.

And so your goal should be to knock out this HELOC and then just put extra toward the principal to do this the right way.

And yes, on paper, does Velocity Banking, if you play it perfectly, can you technically save a little...

Sure.

But the juice ain't worth the squeeze, as they say.

Good.

We've got people work for you today.

Oh, we've got someone else piping in here.

We've got some commentators.

This is great.

Is that your wife?

No, no, dentist office.

Oh, here we go.

He's at the dentist.

Dijon's at the dentist.

He's a a multitasker.

I respect that.

This guy's in the chair.

He's about ready to go under the gas, and he's getting in a quick call for some advice.

Getting a lot done today, Bijan.

I'm impressed.

But yes, velocity banking, it remains incredibly stupid, especially when HELOC rates are as high as they are.

I mean, this could be nearly double your mortgage rate, and they're generally variable with the HELOC.

For a thousand reasons, I'm out on this whole velocity banking scheme where you take out debt to pay off other debt a little bit faster.

Just, hey, if if you want to pay off your mortgage, just apply extra to the principal.

That's it.

That's how I did it.

It's how millions of others have done it.

It remains to be the simplest way.

And yet, Ken, as humans, we try to find the most complex way because it sounds smarter.

Yes.

Feels like the more hoops we jump through, we're doing more.

When, in all honesty,

we're just wasting time.

You're burning calories,

but you're not getting any further.

But I got to respect the hustle from Bijan at the dentist.

I actually, I like Bijan a lot.

I'll tell you, I've tried so hard not to get the church kick going.

I thought we were about 20 seconds from the dentist's hand being in his mouth while he's talking to you.

Did you hear that?

His wife wants to pipe in and have some commentary.

He knows, no, it's the dentist.

And then we hear Bijan right before I put him in a hold.

He does the cryptic, go ahead.

I was waiting to hear the drill start.

He's like, oh my gosh, I charge.

I thought we were headed towards that before we knew it, you know?

Guy's getting his fillings checked out.

And you got to appreciate the hustle.

hustle that warmed my heart and here's just another life lesson here never take out a helock because you saw a 60-second video on tick tock just general life advice yeah not a wise move and bijan i hope you pay off this mortgage uh aggressively i love the spirit behind it but never think that using debt to pay off other debt faster is going to be a wise strategy the only way to get rid of debt is to get rid of debt and while we're on the life advice uh glad he called us in the dentist chair before they gave him the laughing gas or whatever it is.

That would have been a much more interesting call.

It really would.

Oh, that's the first time ever, James.

First time ever that I recall taking a call on the Ramsey show with someone who was at the dentist office.

That right there.

That made my day.

I'm not going to lie about that.

I think that that's

where we are today.

I needed that this hour.

And if you want to catch the rest of the Ramsey show, it's happening over on the Ramsey Network app.

So go to your app store or go to the show notes.

You can download the Ramsey Network app for free.

There could be more dentist calls in hour three.

Because we don't know.

We could have somebody calling us from the zoo.

We don't know.

You just don't know.

This is the show.