You Work Too Hard To Be This Broke!

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, winning with your money, winning in your work, and winning in your relationships.

Speaker 1 The phone number for you to jump in to get coached up is 888-825-5225. That's

Speaker 1 two five five two two five alongside the incomparable the fabulous the fantastic rachel cruise i am ken coleman and we are here for you thrilled that you're with us america let's get to it we're gonna go to sky who's joining us in salt lake city utah sky how can we help

Speaker 1 hi um

Speaker 2 so I was calling in because

Speaker 2 I was involved in a romance scam probably about four or five months ago, and it ended up getting me into like $45,000 worth of debt.

Speaker 1 Oh, no. Sky, what happened? What do you mean?

Speaker 3 Was the person fake?

Speaker 1 Like it was like an internet thing? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was an internet thing. So

Speaker 2 I don't know. It was like over a course of several months, like nearly a year.

Speaker 2 that I was catfished into believing this person was real. And it was weird because like he would do FaceTimes with me and it seemed like the same person every time.

Speaker 2 And it was like, it didn't seem fake to me you know

Speaker 2 and to me it was like we were setting up a life together and so I ended up sending most of my money to this guy and it's weird how it can happen to like anyone because I'm pretty I'm pretty young and I didn't recognize this as being a normal scam so scam

Speaker 1 I don't want to

Speaker 1 yeah I don't want to bring up all this pain but I do think you just said something that I agree with that this can happen to a lot of people and without going into the entire detail of it, what were you being asked to send money to him for?

Speaker 1 I'm just curious about people his bills, like what was he asking money for?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Um, so it was more so like just to set up uh life together. It wasn't really anything particularly like it didn't seem like anything crazy.

Speaker 2 It was like, oh, well, we should get a house and we should get like

Speaker 2 things going.

Speaker 1 And So, you sent him money for a down payment on a home?

Speaker 2 It wasn't necessarily that, but it was just like a

Speaker 2 collection of things. It wasn't just one specific,

Speaker 2 I don't want to say like one specific thing. It was like a whole bunch of like little things that combined to be a lot of money, you know.

Speaker 3 Okay. All right.

Speaker 1 Man, I'm so sorry. So sorry that happened to you.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so how can we help today?

Speaker 2 So I guess my question is, is how do I get in touch with the right people to

Speaker 2 fight this because it seems like I take it to

Speaker 2 the police station and I take it to people who are supposed to know how to handle these situations and supposed to know how to help but it doesn't seem like anybody is like well sorry this happened sucks to be you I guess

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, there's a reason why you're getting those answers.
So you went to all those authorities and that was pretty much the answer?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well that one he stole my identity too.
Like, he's been hacking into my bank account and stuff with it and opening like random cards.

Speaker 2 Still, I have a person down in Georgia who's using it for unemployment.

Speaker 1 Right now?

Speaker 2 Yeah. And they told me SOL.

Speaker 3 Okay. Well, I mean, that end we can help with the identity that the money that you've paid some random person, it's gone.
Yeah. I mean, it is.
Guy, there's not like a legal battle to be fought.

Speaker 3 There was not a contract in place. There was nothing that's going to hold ground in court.
It's just just you made a, you made a mistake, a $45,000 mistake. And I, and I'm so sorry for that.

Speaker 3 How old are you, Sky?

Speaker 1 I'm 21. Okay, okay.

Speaker 3 I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.
He totally, yep, picked you out, knew what he was doing. And yeah, you got scammed.

Speaker 1 Did you learn anything from this guy?

Speaker 2 I think I learned a lot from it, actually.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 3 So on the other end, though, your identity being stolen, that's now that's a that's a separate, yeah, there's something there that you can do.

Speaker 3 So I would go in and freeze, pull all your credit report, pull your credit reports. You can do this for free at all the three different credit bureaus.

Speaker 3 So you can just go online, Experian, TransUnion, you know, any of those, pull your credit report and see a, a detailed list of your credit, okay?

Speaker 3 And then you can freeze your credits so no one else can be taking money out of your name.

Speaker 3 Now, the unemployment, social security that gets into the government side of your identity right so there's a there's a whole IRS situation there that you would have to untangle as well Scad do you have family that do you like your parents and stuff where's um where are they

Speaker 3 so I'm actually living with my parents right now okay what are they saying about all this is is your mom and dad helping at all detangle this or do they do they know about it

Speaker 2 They do know about it. And like my mom, she just like last week helped me get life lock on all of my accounts and stuff like that but

Speaker 2 it still sucks because uh you can't just you can't just change your social

Speaker 2 and i had him like after i got life lock he called my bank using like a re like a recording of my voice that you you know how like ais can go in and like

Speaker 2 yeah so he did that and then he called my bank and used my social and got another like three hundred dollars for my account okay wow well Well, I would even switch banks.

Speaker 3 I mean, I would do some pretty drastic things where he can't, where he can't find you in that way.

Speaker 3 And hey, Scott, and you may want to contact Xander.

Speaker 3 They have a great identity theft program. They have insurance, which you're probably going to buy after we get off this call.

Speaker 3 But even them, hopefully being able to direct you and untangle some of this as well from the identity theft side of it.

Speaker 3 But yeah, I mean, if I were you, I would change, I would change banks completely.

Speaker 1 everything.

Speaker 3 I would freeze my credit. Yep.

Speaker 3 And yeah, I mean, and then from there, yeah, I mean, I would call Xander and get some direction on the things like the social security, the unemployment, all of that,

Speaker 3 because that's the government side of this.

Speaker 3 But gosh, I, I, yeah, I'm so sorry. Yeah.
And it's just a good lesson for those of, you know, watching and listening that, you know, we always say you don't give money to people you're not married to.

Speaker 3 Even if you're dating, even if you're engaged, you don't combine finances at all. You don't pay on each other's debt.
You don't do any of that until you're married. And then,

Speaker 3 I mean, I think, I guess it just has to be said out loud

Speaker 3 until you meet someone in person. Yeah, we're not going to.

Speaker 1 You can't believe you got to say it, but don't send a nickel to a person that you've not met. You just can't do that.

Speaker 1 This is not even. The person that's gaming her may not even be a man.
You don't even know. Like all of this AI stuff and all of this, this is very,

Speaker 1 very sinister stuff.

Speaker 3 It's getting, yeah, and it's getting worse.

Speaker 1 It's getting worse.

Speaker 3 Well, the fact that he used her voice recording. This is.
I mean, that's AI. I mean, like, that is.
Yeah. That's not like USPS texted me.

Speaker 1 This isn't your garden variety catfish.

Speaker 3 No, I thought, yeah, USPS. I got a text like two months ago that they lost the package and asked for all my information.

Speaker 1 And I can't believe I did it.

Speaker 1 Because you trust the Postal Service.

Speaker 3 It said, have a nice day.

Speaker 1 Did you really?

Speaker 1 Did you not know that? We had a whole segment about this.

Speaker 1 I wasn't on one. Can you believe it? Did you get scammed?

Speaker 3 Can you believe it? Nothing's happened so far.

Speaker 1 Poor Winston, he must have had to eat a bottle of Pepsi DC.

Speaker 3 I had to ask him for his debit card because I was like, they have my debit card.

Speaker 1 But he went along with it? No, no.

Speaker 3 My debit card stopped, would not go through on this website that was sent to me by the quote-unquote USPS. And Winston was like, babe, that's a scam.
And I was like, what?

Speaker 1 I fell for it. You got a text from your friendly

Speaker 1 URL.

Speaker 3 And then you look at the email above and it's like 89423 at gmail.com. I mean, stupid, y'all.
I fell for it, so I'm saying I have to say,

Speaker 3 smart people can fall for stupid stuff, so watch out for the scams.

Speaker 1 They're everywhere.

Speaker 1 Speechless. I've never been speechless.
I'm going to have to take a commercial break to recover. We'll be right back.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us.
888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. We want to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships.

Speaker 1 I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is alongside.

Speaker 1 Hey, we're heading into the fall, and it feels like everybody's kind of starting to put the serious, you know, hat back on. We had some fun in the summertime.
People start to focus on their money.

Speaker 1 You've got the holidays that are right around the corner. And it's time to get your money in the right place if it isn't.

Speaker 1 And we want to let you know about a free live training on Monday, September 16th. This is at 1 Eastern 12th Central.
So I would turn it into a lunch and learn if it were me.

Speaker 1 You can join George Campbell and the Every Dollar team for this free live webinar. You can register at everydollar.com slash webinar.
That's everydollar.com slash webinar.

Speaker 1 And this is the number one way to learn how to eliminate debt is through a budget. You got to know where your money is.
The number one way to build wealth is through the budget.

Speaker 1 And the number one way to get on the same page with your your spouse about money is to budget. So budget, budget, budget, budget, everydollar.com slash webinar.

Speaker 1 It's free Monday, September 16th, 1 Eastern, 12 Central Time. George Camill and team will be there for you.
All right, let's go to Philadelphia next where Jen joins us. Jen, how can we help today?

Speaker 2 Hi, guys. So I had a quick question.
I'm currently working on baby step number two.

Speaker 2 And I've been presented with the opportunity of purchasing a property that was my grandmother's and is currently my father's.

Speaker 2 Unfortunately, he got screwed over by whole life insurance. I was a mock and he's in litigations of all of that.

Speaker 2 But it was either for my dad's retirement, you sell the property or I assume the mortgage payments and will inherit it

Speaker 2 in its entirety when he passes. And he would basically be taking it is rented currently.

Speaker 2 He would be taking that monthly rent and utilizing that for his retirement rather than the lump sum from the property.

Speaker 3 No, I would not do that.

Speaker 3 He just needs to sell it.

Speaker 3 Yeah, if there's an emotional tie or something, I think it makes it more difficult.

Speaker 3 But honestly, Jen, I wouldn't want you dependent upon your dad's retirement because if you look up in three or four years and realize, oh my gosh, you know, I want to go and

Speaker 3 I want to have my own house, right? I want to build equity into my

Speaker 3 own. Yeah, you currently own a home?

Speaker 2 Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 2 And even with both properties, I would be under the 25% recommended house buying. So

Speaker 2 the only debt that I currently have is student loans. It is about $45,000, but I was able to pay off approximately $12,000 within getting Gizzell and 10.
So that's

Speaker 3 the

Speaker 3 last

Speaker 2 four and a half months. I have a side hustle that's making an additional

Speaker 2 $600 to $700 a month on on top of my standard salary.

Speaker 1 Right, Jen.

Speaker 3 That's awesome.

Speaker 2 And that would be without roommates either, which is a potential.

Speaker 2 So that's why I kind of don't want to walk away from, you know, if you're getting a half a million dollar property at the remaining mortgage on the home is only $100,000 and it is already in his living will for me to inherit it.

Speaker 2 in its entirety and I'm under that 25% recommended mortgage.

Speaker 2 Is it a mortgage investment or is it truly an investment property? Is it like paying off your mortgage, which is a later baby step? Or should this be viewed as

Speaker 3 an investment? It would be a second property for you, correct? Correct. Yeah.
So that would be, it would be, quote unquote, be an investment property. Eventually, yeah, it'll be in your name.

Speaker 3 So if I, yeah, if I were you, I would, I would simplify it and I would have him just rent it out to someone else.

Speaker 3 You stay in your current home and I would keep living there, let him do his thing with the home, with your grandmother's home, renting it out. That's part of his retirement.

Speaker 3 And then when you get to a point that you, I guess, want to move in or, but you can't because you'll always be paying rent to be funding his retirement.

Speaker 1 So I, I don't, yeah, I wouldn't, I don't understand. I wouldn't know that.

Speaker 2 I don't pay the, there's a third party that's paying rent. So like the rent is only a matter of, or the mortgage payment on the second property is only a matter of $800 a month.

Speaker 1 So you won't be living there?

Speaker 3 A renter, a third party will be be living there?

Speaker 1 Correct. And you're considering that his retirement? He's not making enough on that.

Speaker 2 He has other retirement, but it is generating $2,600 is what he's running it out for a month. And the mortgage payments are only $8,800.

Speaker 1 Okay, but let's run the numbers on that. Let's run the numbers on that.
So if I heard you right, he's clearing $1,800 a month before any of his own expenses on the home, correct?

Speaker 2 Yes, ma'am. Yes, sir.
And he is still working.

Speaker 1 Okay, great. So $1,800 a month, and it's not $1,800 a month because, again, he's got upkeep on the house.
He's got other things that are associated.

Speaker 1 So when you take the actual cost of owning the home and you start to amortize that over that 12-month period, he's not making $1,800 a month.

Speaker 1 So let's just say for round numbers that he's only clearing $1,500 a month. That's not a large sum of money.
I wouldn't even consider that real retirement money. I'm with Rachel.

Speaker 1 If he really wants more money, then sell it and invest that money. If not, then it is what it is.
He's just holding on to it for a little bit of spending money, and he gives it to you upon his death.

Speaker 1 Understanding that?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I guess I was just thinking about how real estate continuously increases. And it is guaranteed.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but hold on a second. Jen, I know, but you're getting it in the will.
So the value of that property is going to continue to go up. Why do you have to buy it now?

Speaker 2 Because the other alternative is to sell it.

Speaker 3 Why doesn't he continue to rent it?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think it's like just the overhead cost of renting it plus the other like retirement.

Speaker 1 I just think he's concerned about

Speaker 3 your current house, what is it worth, and what do you owe on it?

Speaker 2 It's worth $370,000. Okay.

Speaker 2 And I currently own or owe

Speaker 2 hundred and twenty approximately okay

Speaker 1 okay

Speaker 3 um and then your grandmother's home which again you mentioned something about that being part of his retirement so he's using the rent and all of that to live off of correct

Speaker 2 okay he does work a full-time job and my mom is they're still married happily married um she gets social security so i think he's just looking at it for how can he continue to um

Speaker 2 live a comfortable retirement.

Speaker 1 It's 18 grand. He's making,

Speaker 1 if my numbers were probably conservative, but he's making $18,000 off this house.

Speaker 3 A year.

Speaker 1 We're back to the same thing of you feel like you got to buy it,

Speaker 1 but you can't. You're in debt and you're making a case for doing this.
And it doesn't make any sense for you to buy the house for us. It doesn't make any sense at all.

Speaker 1 Either he sells it, he takes the profit off of it, and he invests it, and that's going to do more for him than the $18,000 he's making over the course of the year.

Speaker 1 What would he stand to make on selling the house today, the grandmother's house?

Speaker 2 $486, I believe, was the last Zillow that I had, maybe a week ago.

Speaker 1 No, no, no. What would he make after he sells it? So if it's $486.

Speaker 3 You owe

Speaker 3 $100 left on it, so he'd make $386,000.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that money, Rachel, invested

Speaker 1 over seven to 10 years it's just a better play than holding on to the property for rental income.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 3 yeah, that's what I would do. And I think, Jen, where it gets complicated and where my hesitation is, is whenever you layer these generational

Speaker 3 ideas, it just starts to get more complicated. It's just not as clean, right?

Speaker 3 If he didn't need this money in this house, he could rent it on the side for fun because he's got his other stuff over here and he's fine.

Speaker 3 He's just doing it for fun, and he's going to leave it to you when he dies.

Speaker 3 So eventually, you will get the house, you know, in 20 years, 30 years, like, you know, if you want to keep it in the family, like all of that is clean.

Speaker 3 But the idea that he's needing this money, I don't want you attached to your dad's retirement. It gets really messy really fast.
So he needs to do what's best for him, Jen.

Speaker 3 And what's best for him is if he doesn't have enough in retirement because he's still working, it's to sell this asset and invest it and start living off, you know, the interest gained and run into the sunset.

Speaker 3 And then for you to continue down your path.

Speaker 3 And if he leaves you money upon his death from this house and the proceeds that he doesn't end up using, then that's then that's great, you know, gravy for you. But

Speaker 3 yeah,

Speaker 3 the cleanliness of all of this makes it less dramatic and again, gives you more confidence and control over your own future that you're not tied to this asset that is your dad's dependent on for retirement.

Speaker 1 Quick break, we'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.
Rachel Cruz is alongside, and we are here for you. 888-825-5225.
Triple 8-825-5225. Henry's up next in Tampa, Florida.
Henry, how can we help?

Speaker 2 Hi, everybody. Thank you so much for taking my call.
How are you guys?

Speaker 1 Good. How are you today?

Speaker 2 I'm all right.

Speaker 2 Question for you.

Speaker 2 Quick and easy question, but I mean not easy question, but

Speaker 2 I have a lease that I just purchased in the last year or two there, but just heard about you guys.

Speaker 2 The lease is for the next two more years left on it there.

Speaker 2 I was wondering if I should ever get out of it, pay out of the lease there to get some money, not necessarily money back there, but pay a lease there.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 sell the car or get out of the lease to be able to

Speaker 2 pay some of my debt.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's a great question. What are you paying a month?

Speaker 2 $1,500.

Speaker 1 Oh. Oof.
What kind of car is that?

Speaker 2 Mercedes GLE 350.

Speaker 1 GLE. Pretty nice.
Pretty nice car.

Speaker 3 Good taste, Henry.

Speaker 1 You got some good taste.

Speaker 1 Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 But it's eating you alive and it's not worth it.

Speaker 1 It's not worth it. We got to get it out of here, right? Okay.
Yeah, I just.

Speaker 3 There are a lot of

Speaker 1 give us the terms of where you are. Walk us through the terms.

Speaker 2 All right. So if I were to

Speaker 2 terminate my payoff right now, it'd be about $60,000 there to pay off there. I've looked on, I've heard you guys talking about it.
So I looked on the Kelly Blue Book, and it's about, you get

Speaker 2 $46,000, $47,000 on it.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 1 was that private sale?

Speaker 2 And I, was that?

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a private sale.

Speaker 2 Yes, I'm Kelly's Blue Buck, private sale.

Speaker 1 So that would leave you with $13,000 that you would owe, right?

Speaker 1 Yes. Yes.

Speaker 3 And do you have any cash, Henry?

Speaker 2 Not much, no.

Speaker 3 Okay, what do you make a year?

Speaker 2 Um, so uh, I make about 250,000.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's good news. Yeah, that's great.
So, you would need another car, correct?

Speaker 2 Correct

Speaker 3 to be able, yeah, to replace it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so we've got to replace it. So, we got the 13,000 that you would then owe, and then we've got the cost of a replacement car.

Speaker 1 But with your income, you can get something decent if you really work on your budget, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah, that would be my goal because two more years of this,

Speaker 3 I mean, that's a lot, right?

Speaker 1 So it's a good amount, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 1 because I mean, I'm

Speaker 2 according to you guys, I mean, I was just this is the first time I ever thought that I'm broke, but uh, I do oh, have a good amount of debt as well, too, over a million dollars debt.

Speaker 3 Okay, so tell, yeah, give me the rest of your financial picture. I'm just curious

Speaker 2 where you're at. Um, so I um student loans 180,000,

Speaker 2 credit card debt, about $70,000.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 And then mortgage is about $690,000.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 Whew, Henry, you've been living the life, haven't you?

Speaker 2 Yes, me and my wife.

Speaker 2 So I guess

Speaker 2 let me rephrase that because I know you mentioned total income. My wife is making $100,000, so a total of $350,000.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 You guys have plenty of money. You just got to get under control.

Speaker 2 Yes. And, you know, and that's the other thing, too, there, trying to go from that life to hearing about you guys and changing absolutely.

Speaker 2 I'm like, let's go hard. And my wife is like, what are you talking about there? So, you know, it's definitely different and hard there to actually talk to her about it as well, too, just the budget.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah, totally. And I think, Henry, too, just as a piece of advice, usually when, you know, when people are in your position, the one that kind of hears, okay, there's a different way we can do this.

Speaker 3 And you go in and tell your wife, we're going to stop shopping shopping and stop eating out. She's probably like, what the, Henry, what are you talking about? You've lost your mind.

Speaker 3 So I think approaching her in that aspect is the why. So I am curious, Henry, for you, what, what has caused you up to this point living the way you have with money, both of you?

Speaker 3 And then you hear us, which is very counter with how you've been living. What's been appealing about that?

Speaker 3 Like, what is it in you that's like, oh my gosh, I want that side of money, not what I've been doing?

Speaker 2 The idea of freedom.

Speaker 2 I'm like, I'm like trying to talk with you, but I'm like holding my breath.

Speaker 2 And like the heaviness of just owing so much money, like the fact that I'm like, wait a second, I'd never thought about how much I owe and how much debt I'm, and I've always been thinking about right now, how much I owe for the month.

Speaker 2 Which is like, when I calculated all after talking to you guys or listening to you guys, I was like, I owe a million dollars.

Speaker 1 Like, what in the world? Yep. Yep.

Speaker 2 And so, and I'm like, I can't do this anymore, especially especially when the wife says, oh, I'd love to have a new summer kitchen. I'm like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 1 We have no money.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's right. That's right.
So, Henry, that's what I want you to communicate to her is I can't breathe. Like, I, I, and we hear that a lot, Henry, that you're not the only one.

Speaker 3 It's, it's this level of stress and anxiety and weight

Speaker 3 because you don't own your life. Somebody, these credit cards, right? Everything owns you.
And it's exhausting. And to your point, we work hard and I feel like I have no money, right?

Speaker 3 When I ask you how much money you have saved. exactly.

Speaker 1 It's like, I don't have thinking, and we work so much hard, like over time sometimes, too.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, how do I? And how am I having nothing at the end of the paycheck?

Speaker 1 There, I'm like, right, is this what everyone does?

Speaker 2 I don't understand this, right?

Speaker 3 Exactly. So, how much do you guys bring home a month?

Speaker 3 I was, I was trying to do it with taxes and everything, but when you guys get paid, how much per month are you bringing in, both you and your wife?

Speaker 2 So, I think I'm about 12 to 13,000, and she is about 4,000. So, I would say about 16,

Speaker 2 17, 16,000.

Speaker 3 16,000. Okay.
And that's after taxes. Are you guys funding retirement? Yes.

Speaker 1 Wait a second. We have to put in retirement.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You make $350,000 a year.
You do.

Speaker 2 Yes. No, no.
Yeah, so total.

Speaker 1 Total. So

Speaker 1 I don't understand those take-home numbers.

Speaker 1 What is your take-home? Yours, just you?

Speaker 2 Just me, about

Speaker 2 $12,000 for me.

Speaker 2 Because you asked about putting into retirement. Yes, I've been putting in.

Speaker 1 Yeah, off of gross. So what's your gross? Your gross and her gross?

Speaker 2 Total gross is $350,000.

Speaker 1 Right. You're $250,000.

Speaker 3 She's $100,000. And then after taxes, retirement, insurance, like after all of that, right? What hits you?

Speaker 1 I just felt like her take-home was really low off of a $100,000 salary. Her take-home only being $4,000.
That felt low to me. So I just don't know if you know your numbers.

Speaker 1 And the only reason I'm calling that out is part of this problem is you don't really know your numbers.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Or she's having way too much withholding taken out. And at this point, you're brand new to us.
Rachel, explain the retirement should be paused and all that right now to bring in as much as they can.

Speaker 3 Yeah, for sure. So,

Speaker 3 yeah. So, so, Henry, the whole concept, you guys really need to dig in because if you're getting a big tax refund every year, that's money back in the paycheck that may not be shown here.

Speaker 3 I would be pausing retirement. I'd be pausing everything.

Speaker 3 And you and your wife, again, sitting down and saying, hey, together, it's going to be really hard to do this without her.

Speaker 3 So I want Henry to be as honest and vulnerable with her tonight and just talk about how scared. I mean, how scared you are, honestly.

Speaker 3 I know. We can't.
We'll coach you. We'll coach you.

Speaker 1 No, but probably should have had her on this call.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And to show her and show her the realization.
And, and the truth is, Henry, for your own mental sake, you can't, you guys can't keep doing this, right?

Speaker 3 I mean, you're, you're going to hit a breaking point eventually. And so, um, for you guys, it's going to look different.
And so, I would sit down with her and just say, Hey, here's where I want to go.

Speaker 3 Here's the goals I want to have. And you can kind of map them out ahead of time

Speaker 3 just to say, okay, you know, we, we have, gosh, yeah, almost, almost a million dollars, not, not including the mortgage, but the credit cards, the student loan, all of it.

Speaker 3 mapping it out to say with our income and doing a budget and saying if we just cut everything. And Henry, to your point, this is going to be a 180 from the lifestyle you guys have been living.

Speaker 3 You've been living kind of the high life and enjoying life. And it's going to, to get out of this, we always say you can wander your way into debt.
You cannot wander your way out.

Speaker 3 And so there has to be an intentional plan. That's right.
But,

Speaker 3 but gosh, I mean, in, you know. Three or four years, you guys could have a completely different life financially speaking.
Oh, I think so. And you getting a side hustle, Henry?

Speaker 3 Yeah, adding, you know, adding more income and all of that.

Speaker 1 So, you know, if you stay on the line henry christian uh is going to pick up and we're going to give you financial peace university for you and your wife to sit down together and go through it it's our nine lesson course and this gives you the basics and so it can be she can get mad at us not you delivering the information and henry i would say this i think do what rachel said as far as your approach to her but i think you need to show her you mean business by you getting rid of that car yep that will show her uh you're not just talking get it out of here you're making some sacrifice and then one of these days you'll be driving one of of those bad boys again, but it'll be cash.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 The Ramsey Show continues. So glad that you are with us.
Rachel Cruz is alongside. I'm Ken Coleman, and we're here for you.
Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number.

Speaker 1 And of course, you know, we're so blessed to have a very large audience, very dedicated, a lot of questions, and we have limited time, obviously, every day.

Speaker 1 And many times we'll miss your calls calls to 888-825-5225.

Speaker 1 And you leave voicemails, and we want to be able to get to some of those. So we've got a new segment called Sorry We Missed Your Call.
And our first one, this is a voicemail. This is from Michelle.

Speaker 1 So let's go ahead and play this and we'll answer.

Speaker 4 Hello, my name is Michelle.

Speaker 2 My husband and I are disputing what you mean by saving 15% for retirement.

Speaker 4 He calls it I have girl math, which he's right.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 4 so when you say 15% of the household income if him and i put together make eighty one thousand nine hundred fifty per year do we do fifteen percent total where it's like seven and a half percent each person or do i put away fifteen percent and he puts away fifteen percent wouldn't that count as thirty percent for the household my husband says no your girl math is not working he said it's fifteen percent that's it so he would have to do 15 i do 15 but i'm saying no we have to do 7.5%

Speaker 4 each to equal 15% for the household. Anyway, so if you could please answer that, that would be amazing.

Speaker 1 I'm staying away from that one. I don't want to even touch that with a 10-foot pole on the girl math.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I just think it's appropriate for you to answer and I'll weigh in.

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, it's 15% of the household income. So if you guys make $100,000, that's $15,000 that goes into the house.

Speaker 1 So in this case, they make 81. Let's round it down to 80, just for simple math.
It's 15% of the 81. So you're looking at $16,500

Speaker 1 each, yeah.

Speaker 3 Not anymore. Sorry, sorry, sorry.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 That's where her money is. Sorry, I didn't mean to see

Speaker 3 each instrument. Yes.

Speaker 1 I love how she got there, though. I love how she was like, well, no, it's

Speaker 1 well, never mind. I said I'd stay away from it.
Look what I did. Almost walked right into that one.
Fantastic. But no, it is the

Speaker 1 household income combined income times 0.15. Keep it simple on the calculator.
And there's your answer. That's it.
That's it. All right.
Good stuff. All right.
Our next one. This came in from Kevin.

Speaker 2 Hello, Ramsey team. My name is Kevin.

Speaker 2 I know Dave said

Speaker 2 to when you're on babysat two to work like you're crazy for Monday through Saturday. But you know, being a Christian, we have Bible study on Wednesdays.
and like prayer night on Fridays.

Speaker 2 And I want to work Monday through Saturday for my second job. I have about 30K left in debt.
I want to knock it out by God's grace by January, February.

Speaker 2 You know, being a Christian, I just want to know, is it why is this to still continue working Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday?

Speaker 2 Or should I just go work Monday through Saturday until I'm dead free? Then go and start going back to Bible study.

Speaker 2 and you know prayer service on Fridays.

Speaker 1 Okay, all right.

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 3 i mean i don't think there's a black and white answer here it's just the idea that you know if depending on how intense you want to do this is how quickly you're going to get out and i don't think either side of it right one part of me is like i mean you need a level of like

Speaker 3 sanity during this process right i mean like i guess some people can just white knuckle it and just do it which you can but i mean if there's a level of you that's like hey i'm committed to this thing and it's really good for me and it's helping me in life you know maybe you can stick with that.

Speaker 3 But also, I think you can still be a Christian and not go to Bible study and not go to a prayer meeting for six months. Yeah, I think, I think you're fine.

Speaker 1 Like, I think you'll still go to heaven and everything's going to be okay.

Speaker 3 And you can still grow spiritually. Like,

Speaker 3 you can do that, you know, all of those things. It's your call.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 Dave is speaking in a generality of saying you work as much as you absolutely can to get out as fast as possible. To get out as fast as possible.
That's the spirit of that statement.

Speaker 1 But I'm with you, Rachel.

Speaker 1 Doesn't make you a bad Christian if you miss Bible study on Wednesday and prayer night on Friday. Those are functions of the church.
They will continue with or without you.

Speaker 1 And there are still other times that you can study your Bible and pray.

Speaker 3 Yep. That's what I would say.

Speaker 1 So I'd be careful on the ritualization as it relates to guilt. But I'm also

Speaker 1 with you to say

Speaker 1 if that really gives you that refreshment of your spirit.

Speaker 3 Yes, keep it then. And just say, okay, God forbid I have to pay off debt three weeks later because I'm taking two hours on a Wednesday night to do Bible.
So you know what I mean? It's your call.

Speaker 3 So there's

Speaker 1 not a gray area.

Speaker 3 But anytime we talk about the spiritual end of this, because this is a big part of Ramsey, God's and Grandma's ways of handling money, right? Our spiritual lives are very important to us.

Speaker 3 So I think it is key. But anytime there's like...
any level of legalism, Ken, I don't know why. I just like shudder.
So even with tithing, people are like, oh my gosh,

Speaker 3 should I tithe this or that?

Speaker 3 And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, okay. Just the spirit of why God has us to give in the first place.
Let's go back to that, right?

Speaker 3 So in that same concept, the spirit of getting out of debt and being free means that you're going to have to work extra. And so what does that look like for you? Right.

Speaker 3 So, so tying legalism into it, I don't want for you.

Speaker 3 I want the freedom to say, hey, God's not going to be mad at me if I don't go to Bible study on Wednesday nights for six months because I have a job because I'm trying to hit this goal and get out of debt.

Speaker 3 But if it's good, but if it's something that you really feel like, gosh, it's so good for me to stay sane in this process, then all for it.

Speaker 1 Just say, all right, I'm not going to work Wednesday nights. And keep in mind, getting out of debt and doing what it takes to get out of debt is a biblical

Speaker 1 reality.

Speaker 1 That is a positive. So

Speaker 1 I agree. I don't like the legalism side of this.
I mean, I grew up in that world.

Speaker 1 Like Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, Thursday night visitation.

Speaker 1 What? Oh, yeah. I was a pastor's kid.

Speaker 3 What's visitation?

Speaker 1 It means you're going out knocking on doors telling people about Jesus.

Speaker 3 All right, a little evangelism.

Speaker 1 Can come.

Speaker 1 I mean, look at him. I was wearing polyester leisure suits before they were popular.

Speaker 3 All right. But to your point, in Proverbs, shall I quote? You shall.

Speaker 3 Give no sleep to your eyes, no slumber to your eyelids. Deliver yourself like a gazelle from the hands of the hunter, a bird from the hands of the fower.

Speaker 3 And Proverbs says, if you have signed surety, my son, that's the beginning of that, meaning you've gotten yourself into debt, you do this.

Speaker 3 You give no sleep to your eyes, no slumber to your eyelids, and you deliver yourself like a gazelle from the hands of the hunter, a bird from the hands of the fowler.

Speaker 3 So the picture Proverbs gives you is that, yeah, you are running from, you know, we always say the cheetah, right? You deliver yourself like a gazelle from the hands of the hunter.

Speaker 3 Well, gazelles, you know, from the National Geographic, they're hunted by cheetahs. So like, that's the word picture.

Speaker 1 Have you ever watched one of those?

Speaker 3 Proverbs gives us. Yes, I have.

Speaker 1 When the cheetah chases something down.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's pretty wild.

Speaker 1 And the gazelle is literally running for its life. Yeah.
I mean, we hear Dave say that a million times.

Speaker 1 But that's like the other day I was actually walking through the living room, and I think my wife had a show on for the dogs. By the way, my wife leaves the TV on for the dogs.

Speaker 1 Sounds like George Camille. Little rabbit trail.
I don't want to do that. As if the dogs feel better because there's some type of nature show on.

Speaker 1 It drives me nuts. I'm not going to win that battle.
But anyway, I'm walking through because I got home. And she has the animals.
No one was at home. And the animals are home.

Speaker 1 And in Nashville, Jerry, and I saw one of those little gazelles. Yeah.
And would you believe the episode I saw? He got away. He did.

Speaker 1 I was like really happy. You know so good.
Because that's a 50-50 proposition right now.

Speaker 1 Depending on the head start, you know, because cheetahs get off the blocks quick. But I digress, but the point here is, in this situation, I want to come back and say, I think

Speaker 1 that God

Speaker 1 honors

Speaker 1 and or is okay, depending however you want to look at this, with someone working that hard and missing times of worship in order to free yourself from that bondage.

Speaker 1 I don't think he's upset one way or the other on that. I think, do you know what I mean? Like, and I want to hit that again.
It's like,

Speaker 1 there's no right or wrong here. It's like, what do you believe is best for you in your debt-free journey?

Speaker 3 Yep, that's it.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 Or else you're just going to walk around with guilt all the time. And keep in mind.
People who are really serious about getting out of debt deal with a level of guilt anyway. I know that we did,

Speaker 1 when we woke up to all this many years ago, I was like, man, I feel like such an idiot.

Speaker 1 What a moron. Stacey, I led you poorly.
You know, all that stuff. That's just kind of a natural thing.

Speaker 1 You don't need any more God guilt

Speaker 1 over whether or not

Speaker 1 you're doing enough with the resources he's giving you. It's like, no, no, no.
The stewardship issue

Speaker 1 is what's huge. And being a good steward of your money

Speaker 1 is getting out of debt.

Speaker 3 Yes. You're not doing things

Speaker 3 with action that's harming. Yes.
It is helping and relieving, which is a beautiful thing.

Speaker 1 Here's to all those little gazelles that are going to continue to get away on National Geographic. They represent all of us.
I toast you, little gazelle. Good hour, Rachel Cruz.
Always fun.

Speaker 1 James Childs, our fearless leader. Thank you.
And thank you, America. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 This is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life. We want you winning with your money.
We want you to win in your work. We want you winning in your relationships.

Speaker 1 Triple 8-825-5225 is the phone number for you to jump in on the conversation. We're here for you to coach you up.

Speaker 1 And I don't know if there's anybody that's more enjoyable to do it with than my colleague, my co-host today is Rachel Cruz.

Speaker 1 She's got a sweet, kind spirit about her. Makes me look crankier than normal.

Speaker 1 But I'm here for you as well. We're going to lift you up.
We want you to win. Triple-8-825-5225.
All right, let's start it off with Meg in Cincinnati, Ohio. Meg, how can we help today?

Speaker 2 Ken and Rachel, hi, it's so nice to talk to you guys.

Speaker 1 Nice to talk with you. What's going on?

Speaker 2 So my husband and I have been married for almost 11 years. We have one son, and we're debt-free besides a little bit of mortgage left.

Speaker 3 Nice. Congratulations.

Speaker 2 Thank you. A little bit of a relationship question.
I'm the oldest of three. I have a sister who is single and a brother who's married with three kids.
And my mom and dad are fairly wealthy.

Speaker 2 And I found out a few years ago that on accident that my parents actually purchased the home for my brother and his wife.

Speaker 2 And ever since I found that out, little things just keep happening that are bugging me.

Speaker 2 And I just keep thinking to myself, why are they, they're essentially financing my siblings' life and their lifestyle

Speaker 2 and I just have had this feeling

Speaker 2 I'm not jealous of their lives

Speaker 2 but I'm just like in my head I'm like when will they marry when will they

Speaker 2 when will they take responsibility for their own lives

Speaker 2 and so I was just calling to see if you had any advice for me on these feelings I'm having I've got some questions first

Speaker 1 sure is this the youngest

Speaker 2 I am the oldest.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but you're the sibling that they're supporting. Is it the youngest or the middle? Oh.

Speaker 2 Both of them.

Speaker 1 Oh. I've found out things along the way.

Speaker 2 I don't know if anyone planned on me ever finding these things out, but I have, but I have.

Speaker 1 Are they brothers or sister-brother? What is it?

Speaker 2 I have one brother, and he's married with three kids, and then I have a sister who's single and lives on her own.

Speaker 1 So they're supporting them in every way, essentially. They finance their homes for them.
I mean, are they giving them a spending account? What are we talking about?

Speaker 2 I do know that they both have a credit card link to my parents' account. And I know

Speaker 2 we were at a Bengals game the other day, and my sister said, I'll pay for it. And I said, no, that's okay.
I'll get this one. And she said, no, I have mom's credit card.

Speaker 2 And it's just like little, like my brother and sister-in-law will show up. They'll eat all the food that we all brought, drink our drinks, but they don't provide anything.
And I'm just

Speaker 1 letting you this. I think I know where this is is going are are you and your husband successful financially

Speaker 2 yes

Speaker 1 and throughout

Speaker 2 we have about

Speaker 1 we're hoping to pay off the mortgage next year yeah and and and and I'm guessing that growing up you were also probably

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 1 the maybe if not the best behaved but certainly less drama with you is this true

Speaker 1 very much so yes so this is a pattern it's just

Speaker 1 it happened when you were in the home, when they were younger. Now that they're adults, it's continuing.
Is that what I'm getting?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Exactly.
So the reason I'm digging into this, Rachel, I'm going somewhere with this.

Speaker 1 I'm going to take a guess, and I'm not defending your mom and dad, Meg.

Speaker 1 I'm actually very much Team Meg here.

Speaker 1 I think that's irresponsible. It's irresponsible in that it's stunting the growth of your siblings, number one.

Speaker 1 And it's irresponsible for this very reason that if you can't cover it up and you can never cover this stuff up and it gets to you, it is deeply hurtful to you.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to challenge you to own that, that it is very hurtful.

Speaker 1 Because I think it is. It is.
All right. So here's the deal.

Speaker 2 I have like the strong anger. I think I feel like it's anger, but I don't always know how to describe it.

Speaker 1 Oh, I think it's a good mix of anger and hurt.

Speaker 3 And usually, yeah, I was going to say the hurt. Usually anger.
I'm not a psychologist, but so I've read in therapy. Is that anger is usually a secondary emotion.

Speaker 3 So it's usually always tied to something else. Fear, sadness, hurts.
Like there's usually a deeper emotion there, and it may come out as anger, but usually there's a primary emotion, Meg.

Speaker 1 And yeah, and hurt. And I want to touch on that.
I think it is, why would they do that for them and not do it for me?

Speaker 1 And I'm going to, and I'm not trying to defend your mom and dad. I'm going to take an angle here.
And Rachel, you just smacked on me. I'll smack on Meg for it.
Don't worry.

Speaker 1 Meg, you come at me too. But I here, give me 20 seconds on this.
I believe

Speaker 1 that they actually, your parents,

Speaker 1 don't worry about you at all.

Speaker 1 And it is in their lack of worry about you in the fact that they did good with you. They look at you and they go, did good with Meg.
And I think they are overcome with guilt. Meg's fine.

Speaker 1 And I think they're overcome with guilt about the other two. And so they're trying to fix what they feel they messed up.
This is a take.

Speaker 1 This is a hot take.

Speaker 1 And as a result, they don't see how this could come across to you. They're not even thinking.
And I don't think they, it is not that they love you less than the other two.

Speaker 1 I actually think it's what I just said. I think that's what's going on.
And so I say all that to say this.

Speaker 1 I think if you can get to a place of understanding that mom and dad are dealing with their own guilt and trying to fix some stuff that they can't fix and actually make it worse,

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 they are weak.

Speaker 1 They have a deficit here on how they're supposed to handle these other two siblings.

Speaker 1 And I hope it'll allow you to forgive them a little quicker and to understand that your mom and dad are operating from a place of pain and

Speaker 1 a place of deficit. And I think they're trying to fix that.

Speaker 3 That's my take. Yeah, I think there's a level of them that probably feels still a level of responsibility that if their kids aren't okay, we're going to still step in and help.

Speaker 3 And that comes out of a a really unhealthy place, right? They're doing it with unhealthy patterns.

Speaker 3 That's not good for their adult children, but that's the, that's the route they've chosen to live, right?

Speaker 3 And, and, yeah, not to like psychoanalyze you, Meg, but I have the same birth order, sister, sister, brother, my, my family, and my current kids.

Speaker 3 And I just even know about the, yeah, the textbook oldest daughter. There's like kind of that whole like, you know, just the family archetype, right?

Speaker 3 The idea that, you know, they're probably seen the least. And I mean, that's how mine is.
I mean, my Amelia, she's just quiet, kind of off to the side. My middle is insane, like I was.

Speaker 3 And then we have a little Charles, but I'm, you know, if one of the things that I think is that you're not, but I think, Megan, it kind of goes back to all of this, and we could be off on this, but truly, it's like you were responsible, even from a kid, right?

Speaker 3 A kid, you know, an age of a child, taking care of yourself and doing what you need to do. And, and now you're like, does anyone see me? Right.

Speaker 3 And there's probably a feeling of that when you were a kid. Does anyone see me? And now you're like, are you kidding me? Like, does anyone see me?

Speaker 3 And it's not that you probably just want all this money. You don't want your mom's credit card.
Even if she gave it to you, Meg, you're probably like, no, thank you. But it's just the idea.

Speaker 3 You just feel neglected in a sense. Like, we're like, oh my God.
But I want to encourage you. And everyone else is in a secret that you're not.
So I don't like that, Meg.

Speaker 3 So if I were you, I would communicate that to your parents. I would sit down and say, hey, I'm hearing this.

Speaker 3 And just out of communication that I know that there isn't secrets and things being swept under the rug as a family, will you just tell me what all you've done?

Speaker 3 And I don't want you to not say, but just, hey, I want to know about all of this because that's fair from your family dynamic, I think. I like that.

Speaker 1 And let me encourage your heart. Every time you say heal, Meg, listen.
Okay, go ahead. Because we're going to break so here.
I just want to tell you. Sorry, Meg.

Speaker 1 Sorry, Meg, but listen, they do see you. Rachel's calling this out.
I think she's spot on, but I want to tell you, they do see you. They actually hold you in a level of high esteem.

Speaker 1 They're trying to help the other two get where you are. I'm praying for healing for you.
This is The Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.
Rachel Cruz is alongside, and we're here for you. Triple 8-825-5225.
888-825-5225. We're taking your money calls.

Speaker 1 We're taking your work and income-related calls today, and then we'll weigh in on some of those relationship issues around money as well. Gentry is now on the line in Wichita, Kansas.

Speaker 1 Gentry, how can we help?

Speaker 2 Hi.

Speaker 2 Excuse me. Thank you for taking my call.

Speaker 2 My question

Speaker 2 is about buying a house.

Speaker 2 We've been renting our home for six years.

Speaker 2 Have a really good landlord and community and love our home, but

Speaker 2 just renting doesn't seem like the best long-term strategy.

Speaker 2 We even got a pre-approval and looked at some houses with a realtor

Speaker 2 and it was just like

Speaker 2 any house that felt like we could afford it seemed like a gamble

Speaker 2 and what money my landlord just

Speaker 2 things that are going to need fixed over time major issues with the house or

Speaker 2 it just they all it was just I I'd walk into a house, it's like, I'm not going into debt to live in

Speaker 2 this house. Like, does that make sense?

Speaker 1 How much money do you all have saved for a down payment?

Speaker 2 Not a lot. I mean, not

Speaker 2 we have like $3,000 in the bank, and we've kind of just stayed at that point for a long time. We'll save some money and then, you know, like saving for a down payment has

Speaker 1 what's the most you've ever gotten accumulated for a potential down payment?

Speaker 2 We had about $8,000 a couple of years ago, but now we have about three.

Speaker 1 What did you do with the five?

Speaker 2 Just

Speaker 2 I, well, if I'm 100% honest, I'm not, probably

Speaker 2 haven't been the best budgeter.

Speaker 2 We've got two kids.

Speaker 1 Listen, no criticism here,

Speaker 1 but your whole setup of your question gets down to, do you really want a home? And I think you do. Is it the best long-term strategy? The answer is yes.

Speaker 1 You identified that in the setup of your question, but you guys haven't done what it takes.

Speaker 1 So what you've done is, is you've now created a narrative, which is we can only get this type of house based on where we are now. And that type of house has got all kinds of fixer-upper risk.

Speaker 1 And you're correct on that as well. But you've created a false choice, either keep renting as we have.

Speaker 1 or we buy something that could be a bit of a money trap as opposed to going, all right, if we change our lifestyle and we get really serious, and serious could be a second job, could be radically changing our budget, and we begin to save instead of 8,000 over six years, we save 8,000 a year.

Speaker 1 And let's say in five years, we got 40,000. Does that change the equation on the type of house we're yet? But I think you've just got to, you're missing intentionality is all this is.

Speaker 1 I just see that as the bridge from where you are to where you want to be.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it just doesn't sound like a goal, but you're motivated to even save for it, right? Is that right?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, yeah,

Speaker 2 I guess another thing, and maybe I just need to get this other, I don't know, I guess your input would be good. So my

Speaker 2 in-laws have, I think this is kind of what's hung me up on just, okay, we buy a house. So my in-laws, and we have a great relationship with them.
They have farmland. They've told us that.

Speaker 2 you know, we're welcome to be out there.

Speaker 2 And we've looked into trailer homes and shed homes and different things like that because that's where we want to be permanently permanently eventually out on the family farm. But that's just,

Speaker 2 I don't know if that's even like, if I should just get that trying to do something like that

Speaker 1 now or if I should just put that way. What's your household income? I'm going to buy a house.

Speaker 1 Let's come at this another direction. What's your household income?

Speaker 2 About $70,000 a year.

Speaker 1 And how much of a house, realistically, would you like to build? Forget shed houses and all these other nonsensical things you just laid out. Those are horrible.
That's going to go down in value.

Speaker 1 What would be a reasonable number that you would love to have? What kind of house in your area, you know the market better than us, on that land long term?

Speaker 2 A lot.

Speaker 2 To build a house on that land,

Speaker 1 it would

Speaker 2 mean at least a couple hundred thousand.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And you can get a customer and all that, but you don't own that land either.
So like there's a couple of pieces in here, gentry, that I'm.

Speaker 1 That's true. There is

Speaker 2 some relational things involved in that as well.

Speaker 3 Yeah, they own the dirt.

Speaker 2 It's a good relationship, but it's definitely a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 That's true. I thought they were going to give you some of the land.
No?

Speaker 2 It's complicated. Huh?

Speaker 1 They're not going to give you the land?

Speaker 2 Well, it'll end up our land eventually, but that's hopefully a long time from now.

Speaker 2 We're on the my husband's on the

Speaker 2 deed.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 but here's the thing i don't so you sounding like 200 000 is this insurmountable mountain like you just were like i thought you were going to throw out two million the way you answered my question you're like well it's 200 000 i mean at a 70 000 income for a 200 000 home if you guys got your budget and if they got discipline rachel they can get there that is not a long way away yeah for a down payment on a construction loan and stuff if you go that way but but i think gentry i think the the what mathematically i think what you have to understand is when you're owning a home and you guys are renting and we are not mad at renters, right?

Speaker 3 We say on the show all the time, renting is a great place to be if you don't have the money to put, you know, if you're not in a financial situation with no debt and emergency fund and all of that, rent while you do that, rent, you know, if you're moving to a new city, rent for a year to kind of see what part of the city, I mean, there's reasons to rent, but long term, the goal is to be a homeowner because that rent check that you've been paying for six years is going nowhere for your future versus it going into equity, into an asset for your home.

Speaker 3 And your home expense on your budget, that line item, is the largest expense that you're going to pay a month, right?

Speaker 3 For most people, that mortgage payment, that house payment, that rent payment, that is the most.

Speaker 3 And for it to continue to increase year after year versus having a 15-year fixed rate for 15 years and hopefully paying off that home sooner than that,

Speaker 3 you've lowered your risk and locked you into an asset asset where you guys, that's not what you're doing. That's not your plan.

Speaker 3 So, I would challenge you guys to say, Yeah, you've been renting for six years and home ownership is just a good piece of your overall financial plan that you guys need to have.

Speaker 3 I really do believe that when you're financially ready and you don't, you're not ready right now. You have $3,000, so you need a fully funded emergency fund.
I'm assuming, are y'all debt-free?

Speaker 3 Consumer debt?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I have $20,000 in student loan.

Speaker 3 Okay, so you got to get that cleaned up first, and then I would go get a fully funded emergency fund. And then your next goal, Gentry, is that.

Speaker 3 And here's another thing: having financial goals is getting y'all somewhere. For six years, you guys have kind of just floated, right? I mean, you've been sitting here with student loans.

Speaker 3 You're like, I think we kind of budget. We kind of have a little bit of money.

Speaker 2 Two kids in that six years.

Speaker 3 Yes, which I, yes, totally. I hear you.

Speaker 1 I hear your five-year-old.

Speaker 2 But also, we're kind of like, okay, well,

Speaker 1 you want to place where we're not in baby, you know,

Speaker 3 country land in our and anything in life gentry and ken talks about this so much but you know you're not gonna go where you want to go on accident like you're you guys will not wake up in 10 years and be like oh well look we're getting closer to retirement we're able to do what we want this is so fun you're not going to just wake up and that happen you're going to wake up exactly where you are today unless things change.

Speaker 3 And the most motivating thing to change is to have goals out there that you want

Speaker 3 and to create a plan and do that.

Speaker 3 So I almost want to take like the stagnant feeling a little bit of you guys financially and just kind of shake it up and say, hey, put some life back into this part of your life and shoot for a goal.

Speaker 3 And for you guys, getting rid of the student loans is a great goal.

Speaker 3 You know, saving up some emergency fund, like getting your guys in a good place.

Speaker 3 And then homeownership will come later. But I don't know.
There's just something in that, Gentry, I hope it's just kind of motivating because I think you guys can do

Speaker 3 that.

Speaker 1 You got to believe that you can get there. And I got news for you.
If you think you just got out of crazy town with the kids' age, wait till they get to middle school and high school.

Speaker 1 You don't even know crazy. It's crazy town in all caps.
I say that to say, life is going to happen to you or you are going to happen to your life. And I'm encouraging you,

Speaker 1 I'm not upset at you. I just think it's that, turning that dial to, we're going to happen to our life.

Speaker 1 And we're here to help on that

Speaker 1 and get out of debt. So hang on the line.
Christian,

Speaker 1 let's get a one session, our gift to them with a financial coach just to help them get that budget set and some real direction and some extra motivation. I think that'll help.
This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. So excited that you are with us.
We're here to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman.

Speaker 1 Rachel Cruz is with me this hour, 888 825-5225. It's time for our Ramsey Show question of the day brought to you by Why ReFi.

Speaker 1 YReFi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. Private student loans are different than federal student loans like Sally Mae.

Speaker 1 So to learn more about this custom refinancing option and the lump sum payoff option you could qualify for after 24 months, go to yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com

Speaker 1 slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states.

Speaker 3 Today's question comes from Natalie in Rhode Island. She says, My husband's job awards company stocks as part of his compensation package.

Speaker 3 The problem is that their stock has a lifetime history of negative returns. Oh, gosh.

Speaker 3 When the stocks vest after three years, we sell them because we know that they are a bad investment and we don't do single stocks.

Speaker 3 Do you have any tips on negotiating salary to include more cash and no stocks?

Speaker 3 He makes about $10,000 or $100,000 a year and receives an additional 15% in stocks, and that portion of his compensation isn't available until three years have passed.

Speaker 3 How should we go, how should he go about negotiating cash instead of stocks that we have to wait years for them to process and they're always at a loss?

Speaker 1 This is just a good old-fashioned conversation to say, okay, here's the reality.

Speaker 1 As I look at these numbers based on the stock and here's what it looks like, are there alternatives to the compensation plan? You just got to ask. You don't demand.
I can tell you that.

Speaker 1 My guess is that this is just a part of their deal and they're going to look at you and go, well, you know, we planned for this to happen and this and happened and this happened.

Speaker 1 So I think what you have to do is, is you go in and you ask a lot of questions.

Speaker 1 And to the extent that you can always put your leader in a position that you are occupying by asking questions, you know, hey, how. What would you do if you were me?

Speaker 1 I'm stuck and hung up on that

Speaker 1 a massive part of my bonus is a negative stock price. And this is just what I'm going through psychologically.
And you know more about it than I do. Maybe you don't.
You're my leader.

Speaker 1 What do you think on this? Because I can tell you this. In this situation, I doubt that this is the person directly responsible for this.

Speaker 3 Sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So what you want to do is you want to be heard.

Speaker 1 And the only way to be heard. is to be asking questions so that it's very obvious what your emotions are and what your thoughts are without demands.

Speaker 1 It's all you can do in a compensation situation like this. Now, it would be very different.
My advice would be different if it was, I don't think I'm paid fairly.

Speaker 1 Then you got to go get market research and you come in and again, same kind of posture. Hey, what do you think about these numbers? I did this research.
In this case, this is a company policy.

Speaker 1 It's how they pay. So you got to raise your hand.
and not raise an alarm. And that's the only way I know how to do that is through some thoughtful questions.
Here's how I'm feeling about this.

Speaker 1 Is this a long-term strategy? Is this how it's always going to be? What do you know about it? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then when the leader doesn't feel like they've been put on kind of blast or put in a position where they're in a situation where they don't want to say something

Speaker 1 that is looked at.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you want to get to the right person, right? Whether it's HR or whoever.

Speaker 1 They got to be careful, too. They don't know what you're going to say.

Speaker 1 So it's one of those deals where

Speaker 1 I don't think you got a lot of wiggle room not knowing any more than what's on the paper here.

Speaker 1 If you're not happy with the answer, you're looking for a much better compensation situation somewhere else.

Speaker 3 Yeah, for sure. And if you love the job, but you just hate that part of it, then I would do exactly what you guys do.

Speaker 3 And after they vest up for three years, cash them out, put them somewhere else to actually make a return and call it a day.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's right. It's good.
Brandon is up next in Orlando, Florida. Brandon, how can we help today?

Speaker 2 Hey, guys.

Speaker 2 My question has to do with single stocks as well.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 what I did is probably about five or six years ago, I invested maybe like 40 grand in Robinhood stocks,

Speaker 2 single stocks. And

Speaker 2 I think two or three of them went bankrupt, and I had about 14,000 in those stocks combined.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 2 they're at zero now.

Speaker 2 So I got in touch with the Smart Vestor Pro and took some of the money out from my Robinhood that was doing good and that I had made profit on.

Speaker 2 And so my question is if I have some stocks still left in Robinhood that are like bigger companies that I'm not really afraid of them going under.

Speaker 2 And I don't know if I should leave them in there to hopefully recoup back some of that loss or just take everything out and put it into the mutual funds that I had set up?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, I always, I don't own any single stocks, Brandon, because it's just this concept that all your eggs are in one basket and it's what you experience.

Speaker 3 I mean, the worst of the worst is what you experience of you put your money in and you lose it all because it was all just in one stock. So the idea of diversification, it's boring.

Speaker 3 It's probably not as exciting,

Speaker 1 but it lowers your risk.

Speaker 3 And over time, I mean, we see over and over again, whether it's the SP 500, the Dow Jones, I mean, it's that 10 to 12% return that you're going to get, again,

Speaker 3 where your money is mutually funded versus that single stock. So if I were you, Brandon, in your shoes, yes, I would take money out of Robinhood.

Speaker 3 That's one reason I don't care for Robinhood is because it makes the average person feel like, oh my gosh, I can do whatever I want with investing. And they put their money into $14,000 and

Speaker 3 don't realize the risk or know what's going on. And then they lose the money.
So our investing advice overall, Brandon, is not the coolest, flashiest, most exciting advice that you're going to hear.

Speaker 3 It's pretty boring, but it works every single time. So, I would put my money, which it is,

Speaker 3 yeah, in a good mutual fund, even in an index fund, if you want to do that, like a Vanguard kind of account.

Speaker 3 You could look, you know, into something like that too, if you wanted, but the idea of diversification is really key. And so, that's that's what I would personally do.
Are you

Speaker 3 like, how much are you making a year in general, like with your salary and everything?

Speaker 2 Uh, probably about 85.

Speaker 3 Okay, do you have debt?

Speaker 2 No, no debt. No debt.

Speaker 3 And do you have cash savings, just liquid if you need it?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I have, I have, uh,

Speaker 2 I have enough and like a high yields and then just a regular savings account.

Speaker 1 Okay, great.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, the only time, Brandon, I would, and I put crypto in this, I put single stocks in this, I put gambling and a good game of craps in Vegas in this.

Speaker 3 Like there is a section that once you're debt-free, you have a fully funded emergency fund, you're funding retirement, retirement, 15% of your income.

Speaker 3 Like, you know, you're being wise with 98% of your money. If there's a little bit on the side that if you want to just gamble it away is literally what that is,

Speaker 3 you can, right? And if you lose it, it didn't take you out because everything else is fine. And again, this is after you're funding retirement and you're doing what you need to do with money.

Speaker 3 If there's like a little bit of money on the side that if it burns in the middle of the floor tomorrow, it doesn't change your life and you want to kind of play around with stuff.

Speaker 3 That's at that point, that's where I'm like, yeah, that's where crypto comes in or single stocks or gambling. You're like,

Speaker 3 whatever you want to do just for fun.

Speaker 1 What do you still have in those single stocks that you still have money and robbing it? How much is that?

Speaker 2 It's about 20 grand. And on my total returns, I'm down about $9,500 now.
So I've made some back, but

Speaker 1 yeah,

Speaker 1 and you're saying those single stocks of the 20 grand, they're in large companies.

Speaker 2 Yeah, larger than what I lost money on on the smaller ones.

Speaker 1 I mean, again, you've already talked to a Smart Investor Pro. I'm pretty sure I know what they told you

Speaker 1 in this situation. I know what you're feeling.
You're kind of going, man, sure would like to get back to at least break even. And let me ask that question.

Speaker 1 Let's say you got back to break even tomorrow. What would you do then?

Speaker 2 I'd take all the money out and put it in my

Speaker 2 mutual fund.

Speaker 1 I'm not a lawyer, but I would love to play one on TV. And that was my best leading question there.
And so if that's what you do tomorrow, that's what I do today.

Speaker 1 Okay. Make sense?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, not trying to trap you there.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 3 I think Dave would have

Speaker 3 yelled at us, yelled at me from Scotland talking about crypto and gambling and all of it.

Speaker 3 I laugh all the time because I always say that. And I believe that.
But if there's a little part, if you're doing everything else and you want to go just do what you want to do with it, do it.

Speaker 3 I think that's what I'm doing. And I have him in my ear being like, why would you choose to lose money? So, America, I'm just saying that for safeguarding.

Speaker 1 You know what my response to that would be? It'd be like, Have you ever played at a great crafts table? Because Ken and I have, and it's fun, it's fun, especially when they get hot. You're right.

Speaker 1 If somebody gets hot, everybody's having a good time. And if it's in the blow envelope,

Speaker 1 I don't know what the problem is. I'm there with you, Rachel.
Maybe I won't be in the doghouse. This is the Ramsey Show.

Speaker 1 The Ramsey Show continues. I'm Ken Coleman.
Rachel Cruz is with me, and we're here for you, 888-825-5225. We were just in a meeting the other day, Rachel and I were.

Speaker 1 And boy, oh boy, the Live Like No One Else Cruise

Speaker 1 is on its way. I feel like the boat is on its way.
I mean, it'll be here.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we are. Captain,

Speaker 1 I'm going to call you Captain Cruz the entire week. It's going to be great.

Speaker 1 Are you going to have some sort of nautical style going on?

Speaker 1 You have always recommending clothes on the old Insta.

Speaker 1 I see you with some type of,

Speaker 1 yeah, some type of nautical flair. Look, everybody.

Speaker 1 Look, everybody, I got this dress at Walmart. Look at it.

Speaker 1 For only $7.47.

Speaker 1 And it's on sale. Yeah, geez.

Speaker 1 Hey, it's going to be a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 I might wear some nautical-themed clothing. I promise you that right now.
The Live Like No One Else cruise is almost sold out. 90% of the cabins are booked.
You don't want to miss this chance.

Speaker 1 This is for baby step four and up because you can do it. And why would you do something like this? Like mines, you know, like values, having a good time.
You can afford it.

Speaker 1 We're going to be going to Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, and the Bahamas.
And I'm told you don't need a passport.

Speaker 1 So if some of you are like, I don't have my passport, I don't want to have to deal with all that junk at the post office.

Speaker 1 You know, you don't have to have it because we're American American port to American port, I'm told. I don't even know if I said that right, but you don't need your passport.

Speaker 1 All food is included. Gonna be the pools, the hot tubs, all kinds of fun stuff, and pickleball courts.
If you're a pickleball enthusiast like I am, Ken is challenged.

Speaker 1 By the way,

Speaker 1 it's on my desk.

Speaker 3 Oh, you should bring it next segment.

Speaker 1 Bring my trophy. All right, next segment, I'll bring the trophy.

Speaker 1 He got a trophy. I won.
By the way, for those of you who have not heard, I won the first, hopefully it's an annual Ramsey Personality Pickleball Tournament.

Speaker 1 I won. George Campbell and Rachel Cruz were the first opponent for me and my brain leader Damon Gallad, and we dispatched of them within eight minutes.

Speaker 1 It's the quickest pickleball game in recorded history.

Speaker 3 But when you spin the little ball, it's very difficult to hit. That's all I'm saying.

Speaker 1 So Rachel doesn't.

Speaker 1 Rachel doesn't like it when anybody hits the ball with any spin.

Speaker 3 It's not fair.

Speaker 1 You can't hit a ball and not spin it.

Speaker 3 Do you want me to show?

Speaker 3 I can demonstrate how you just hit a ball without the spin.

Speaker 1 But that's your problem, not everybody else's. But I digress.
Here's the cruise dates. March 22 through 29, 2025.
March 22 through 29, 2025.

Speaker 1 All the Ramsey personalities, Trey Kennedy, a great comedian. Stephen Curtis Chapman, Monique Chauhan of the Food Network, Deanna Carter, the legendary country music star, and more.

Speaker 1 Ramseysolutions.com slash cruise. Ramseysolutions.com slash cruise.

Speaker 3 Yep. And everything's included.

Speaker 1 I'm going to teach you how to spin the ball.

Speaker 3 Okay, I was going to say, all the food's included. It's going to be a really fun time so you don't have to be in the kitchen, literally, and on the pickleball court.

Speaker 1 Oh, I see what you did there. She's got jokes.
I am going to teach you how to hit the ball with some spin. Then all of a sudden, you'll be pro spin.

Speaker 1 There it is.

Speaker 1 Michael's up in Charlotte, North Carolina. Michael, how can we help today?

Speaker 2 Hey, thanks for taking my call.

Speaker 2 So I need some advice.

Speaker 2 Right now, I do have $406,000 worth of debt.

Speaker 1 Does that include your mortgage, Michael?

Speaker 2 Yes, that includes my mortgage. So I have $102,000 in student loans.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 $222,000 on my mortgage. Okay.

Speaker 2 $43,000 on a HELOC.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 $13,000 on my auto loans.

Speaker 1 Wait, how much? $8,000 on my car. $13,000 on my auto.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Personal lines, credits, no, personal loan, $2,900,

Speaker 2 $8,000 in credit card.

Speaker 2 And I have about $24,000 in savings. That's including stock accounts and, you know, high-yield savings and all the different savings.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's great. Okay.
Okay. That's great.
Okay.

Speaker 3 Hold on. I'm making a list real quick.
One second.

Speaker 1 How new? While she's writing that down, how new to our program are you?

Speaker 2 So I learned about Dave Ramsey last year at church. Okay.
And I did baby step one.

Speaker 2 I actually taught the STU class at my church in our groups.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 I found myself not actually living up to that standard, so I need to take a step back and get my stuff right

Speaker 2 before I teach others about how to live.

Speaker 1 So this is fun.

Speaker 1 So if you were leading the class and someone said, hey, I have $24,000 in savings and I've got all this debt and you yourself accomplished baby step one, what would you tell them to do with the rest of that 24,000, that 23,000?

Speaker 1 What would you tell them to do with it, Mr. Teacher?

Speaker 2 We're telling them to list their guts from smallest to largest, and it's like knocking them out, knocking them out.

Speaker 1 Man, that's pretty good advice.

Speaker 1 That's pretty good advice.

Speaker 3 Michael, how much do you make a year?

Speaker 2 I make my base salary is $108,000.

Speaker 3 Yeah, do you get extra?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so with bonus, around $125,000,

Speaker 1 I guarantee.

Speaker 3 Okay, so

Speaker 1 I also sell real estate

Speaker 2 by hustle. So this year year I made around $18,000 doing that.

Speaker 3 Oh, good for you.

Speaker 2 I started the year off with about $12,000 in credit card debt. And I was intentional about selling some houses and using that commission to knock down that credit card debt.

Speaker 2 And I did, but I built it back up. But I'm paying it off next week.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So, I mean, yeah, I mean, if I were you,

Speaker 3 gosh, I mean, you today, with that 24 grand, you can get the

Speaker 3 car, the credit cards, and the personal line of credit paid off with the $24,000. So that's done.
I mean, just, you know, speaking.

Speaker 3 And then, I mean, if you made $145,000 coming up, and let's just pretend, you know, you lived on $75,000 and after taxes, that's a, I mean, yeah, you got $45,000 freed up.

Speaker 3 So in a year, you can get the HELOC paid off.

Speaker 3 And then you got $102 left in student loans, and you could do that in probably.

Speaker 1 So what?

Speaker 1 What do you mean? So,

Speaker 1 what do you mean?

Speaker 2 Here's

Speaker 2 the wrench and everything I just say.

Speaker 3 Okay, give it to us.

Speaker 2 So in July, I went under contract for a new house.

Speaker 2 I have $8,400 invested in down payments and earnings.

Speaker 1 $400?

Speaker 2 No, no, $8,400.

Speaker 3 $8,400. Okay.

Speaker 2 Yes. So the house is new construction.
It's being built. It won't be finished till next year.

Speaker 2 The reason I did it was because I've been paying this HELOC.

Speaker 2 It was originally

Speaker 2 $28,000, but the banker convinced me to roll in of a debt into the HELOC because it will save me some money, which it did.

Speaker 2 But when I think about it, now I'm paying around $40,000 to $430 a month on a HELOC, which is mostly interest, and the principal isn't really coming down.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I bought my house in 2020. I have around $135,000 in equity in the house.

Speaker 2 When I sell it, I'll be able to take care of the HELOC, the car payment.

Speaker 2 I'm calculating, hopefully, I'll have around

Speaker 2 $60,000 left after I use the $20,000 for the house. So I'm using $20,000 of the principal, $20,000 to go into

Speaker 2 the down payment on my house because that's the principal I paid for the house I live in now.

Speaker 2 And I'll roughly have around, hopefully $50,000 to $60,000 left over. And then I'll have, I'll roughly have around like $30,000 left of my savings, around $30,000 of my savings,

Speaker 2 which I was going to use that for my emergency funds.

Speaker 1 Here's my only thing.

Speaker 1 Here's my only thing. I'm going to give it this to Rachel, but I got to jump in here.
What I don't understand is you taught FPU. You believe in it enough to teach it.
You did a portion of it.

Speaker 1 And while you were paying off debt, you start this process and then you go right back into credit card debt. So all I'm saying is this selling the house is the easy way out.

Speaker 1 But I'm just curious why it is that you just keep backtracking. It doesn't make any sense.
It's like you're...

Speaker 2 So the credit cards are gone.

Speaker 1 I know, but my point is you jumped them back up. You told us I paid them down, then I jumped them back up, and

Speaker 1 you got 24 cash in the bank right now. You could have paid three of these line items off before you even called us.
I'm just curious, what's holding you back from going all in?

Speaker 2 What's holding me back from going all in is

Speaker 2 I just don't, over the last couple of years, even the last couple of months really, I've been having like emergency expenses coming up and

Speaker 2 $1,000

Speaker 2 in an emergency fund went and cover some of the expenses that I didn't incur, such as.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so Michael, I think, sorry, we're going to a hard break, but I would just encourage you that when you get focused and get all this debt out of your life, it frees up your income and you don't have payments anymore.

Speaker 3 And you're able to use your income to then fund things in your life. So you're just kind of doing it the opposite way, and I would reverse it.

Speaker 1 Good hour. Hey, for the rest of the show, you can only get it the Ramsey App, Network App.
Go get it at the App Store or Google Play.