Yesterday’s Choices Don’t Define You — Change Starts Today

Normal is broke and common sense is weird.

So we're here to help you transform your life.

From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Studio, Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

Jay Washall, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author, is my co-host today as we take your questions at 888-825-5225.

Sarah is in Alabama.

Hi, Sarah.

How are you?

Hi, I'm good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Okay, so my fiancé and I have been together for 13 years, off and on.

We have two daughters, five and ten.

And a year ago, or two years ago, we uprooted and moved to his hometown in the middle of nowhere, Alabama.

We bought a home.

We have since had a house fire a year later.

And right now we're renting.

We decided that we were going to get married at the beginning of next year in March.

And we decided that at the beginning of this year.

Right?

Slow down, pump the brakes.

But

well,

he got baptized for the first time.

He has always been a complete non-believer.

Oh, he was against it.

And after the fire, he got baptized.

I got saved again.

My daughter's been saved again.

And it was definitely something that as a family, we were moving towards in the holy, trying to live life right in God's eyes.

And so the fire was kind of the catalyst for all of you?

Is that what you're saying?

Oh, absolutely.

and we're all still on that page we're devout and bible study and church and all that good stuff but we just realized that we're not going to be able to afford the wedding and

there have been other things infidelity stuff like that that has happened throughout our past trauma that's just kind of carried over

and and have we done any counseling

We have not.

We've talked about it plenty of times.

And honestly, where we're at right now, there's not very many resources.

What do you mean by?

There are not very mental health reasons.

Not very many mental health resources.

I come from

nowhere, Alabama.

Okay, so, okay.

Well, there are, I mean, there are really great online

like better help, those guys.

So,

okay, let's play pretend for a second.

Are you

you've been doing this a long time.

Yes.

You have two kids that if we keep this up much more, they're going to be in college.

Right.

I mean, this has just gone on a long time.

Your spiritual awakening is wonderful that you met God, and I want to start living by the book.

And

so

the ship has sailed on

little 18-year-old Sarah walking down the aisle in an expensive wedding in a white dress.

that was like a decade ago

it's gone

so go get married like today

tomorrow

what if everything isn't where it should be honey you've been going this long you've been going this long you know where everything what what what what is not in the right place my god i mean if it's if it's not where it should be you should have been gone like five years ago yeah and sarah with the life changes that you guys are making, I'd like to think that the worst is behind you guys and that you're going to start going in another direction.

And to Dave's point, yeah, today or next week when you get married and you go down to the courthouse and you just fill out the papers and legalize it for all of your benefit, there could be a day in the future where you renew your vows and you do the white dress and you walk down the aisle and you do that big party that you wanted.

But just because that's not going to be today or next week when you get married doesn't mean it can't happen ever.

I just want to break this idea that that you need to save up for a big wedding.

It's like, that was a decade ago.

Just go get married.

But I didn't even want a big wedding.

Then why do you need money for a wedding?

$10?

Then you don't need money for a wedding.

$10.

I mean...

Just go down the, call your preacher and say, can you marry us?

And he'll say, yes.

And we met God.

We met God, and we know that now we need to be married in order to sleep together.

And so we're going to get married.

Will you marry us?

We want to be right.

We want to do this right.

And preacher is going to say yes.

And then you go get your license and you go get married.

And if it makes you feel any better, this is a small technicality, but it could make you feel better.

You know, you go, everybody gets married and gets the license before they walk down the aisle in the dress.

Everybody, because you have to have that first.

And the legal part's done first anyway.

So for you, you're just going to be delaying the part where you walk down the aisle.

Everybody gets the certificate first.

Yeah, have you a celebration?

But I mean, you guys have been doing this for 13 freaking years.

I I mean, this is not, it's not like,

yeah, it's, it's, that's in the rearview mirror.

But

the only question I've got is you do want to make sure that you're saying, okay,

now that we're in this headspace of we're walking with God now and both of us are there and we've been through the trauma of a house fire, which is very traumatic.

Now that we've done all that, I'm looking in the eyes of my two kids that the two of you made together and you're going, okay, is there anything that's so broken here that we can't work through it?

Because to me, it's almost as if you've been married 13 years and you're calling me asking me if you need to get a divorce.

And I didn't hear anything in this discussion that called for that.

That's a good way to look at it, Dave.

And so,

you know, the only question is now we're formalizing this because we have a better spiritual understanding of how life works and we're going to plug into that and you're just going to formalize it.

And here's what's, then what you're saying is, for better or for worse, baby.

Yep.

Yeah.

It does hit different, though, when you put that, when you put the ring on it, because then there's no, there's no escape valve, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

But they do need to do premarital counseling, even though they've been together 13 years.

Or just go do marital counseling.

Yeah, marital

get married.

You know, okay, we got to, we kind of ought to dig through this toy box a little bit and see what's going on here.

There's stuff going on here in here.

And,

you know, and make sure we've got that kind of stuff cleared out.

Because, I mean, it's like, we were with some friends this weekend and have been married 50 years.

We've been married 43 years.

Wow.

That's how old we are.

We had to shoot dinosaurs out of the yard to get married.

And so,

you know, they were laughing, I said, Sharon, they said, what's the secret?

And Sharon said, David says, if I leave, he's going with me.

There you go.

And that's the secret.

You're not getting away.

That's about how it sounded, too.

She dropped into that southern hillbilly mountain twang and went all down in it.

I'm just saying.

But yeah,

that's great.

That's the truth.

I told her.

It's an old Zig Ziggler line.

I've been telling her for years.

I said, if you leave, I'm going with you.

So just, you you know, go ahead and pack both suitcases because I'll be following you right along.

Otherwise, I'll go hungry.

Not good.

Oh, that's good.

Hey, kiddo, I'm proud for where you guys are, and I'm proud for where you're going.

The best is in front of you.

The worst is behind you.

You start walking with Jesus, and both of you do that.

You'll learn things that you never learned before.

You'll see things you've never seen before.

And it won't be without its problems.

It won't be without bumps in the road, but you will get there.

And you're setting those kids up for a much better life.

You're setting yourselves up for a much better life.

And I'm proud for where you're going.

Three most important decisions I ever made.

Number one, following Jesus.

Number two, who I married, Sam Warshaw.

Number three, choosing to get on a plan for money and get out of debt and build wealth.

Three most important.

There we go.

Boom.

Big list.

Big list.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all.

I don't understand this, John.

Why don't people want to take care of their family?

They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys, I didn't even think about it.

And one of my buddies said, Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

They've lost somebody important to them.

Me too.

They don't know what to do next.

Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here.

And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow.

She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly.

These are the two options.

And take care of your dadgum family, man.

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah.

To just miss you.

you.

That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance.

Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable.

I've used them personally for 25 years.

They're the only people I trust.

Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Michael is in Canada.

Hey, Michael, how are you?

I'm fantastic.

I always told myself if I ever got through, I'd have to hear you say it.

So, how are you doing, Dave?

Better than I deserve.

That's fantastic.

Jade, I actually asked you this question on IG Live a couple months ago, and you wanted more details.

You wanted the numbers for it.

So, my wife and I are both 38.

Today is actually my birthday.

We are on baby steps four, five, and six.

And we own two properties: our primary house, which is valued at about $650, and we owe $265 on it.

And then we have a cabin recreational property that we bought for $325.

It's worth about $4.25,

and we owe about $2.14 on it.

Now, in Canada, we have these weird mortgages where they amortize over 15, 20, or 25 years, but the interest rate comes up for renewal every five years.

So the cabin is coming up in the spring where we're going to renew that, which gives me the opportunity, if I wanted to, to take equity out of the cabin and then I could transfer that equity into our primary residence.

This would just help us pay off our house sooner, maybe provide us with that financial piece a little bit earlier of owning our own home.

And I was curious what your opinions were on that.

Do the interest rates compare?

Yeah, so actually the house is a little bit more.

The house is at 4.5.

Right now it's looking like the cabin would renew around 3.9.

So maybe about 1% difference.

So they treat your cabin as a personal residence in terms of interest rate.

Correct, yeah.

Yeah, because in the States,

your second homes and rental properties have a higher interest rate.

Yeah, here we can still take advantage of the same mortgage rates.

Okay.

Again, we just get stuck with this thing every five years, so it can vary more.

So your idea is to take out a HELOC on the cabin.

No, it's just extra, do a cash out refinance.

Yeah, so we can do that.

Oh, okay.

Not a HELOC.

They're going to redo the mortgage.

Understood.

Reset the mortgage and take another 200 out, I guess, or so, right?

Yeah, it'd be about 100, probably I could get out of the cabin.

We have to leave 25% in there.

What's your household income?

About 240.

Okay.

So if you owe $165 on your house because you move $100 over to the cabin, how fast do you pay that off?

Well, so right now I'm forecasted about five years out, something, and this would probably speed up to about three.

That's really where our focus is, is paying off our house.

And then we'd we'd move to the cabin after that.

So

it would move up that goal of paying off the house, but overall paying off the house in the cabin, I'm still looking at probably the same time frame of maybe closer to eight years.

Yeah, that sounds right.

Maybe sooner, but yeah, depending on how tight you pull that budget down.

But yeah, okay.

All right.

Well, it's just a risk analysis thing of,

you know, if you could pay off one or the other completely, we would talk about that.

This one is still no change.

because if you get sideways and you got no money, you're going to lose both of them.

Right.

Either way.

Because you can't pay the bill.

It doesn't make enough of a difference.

And so the, the, you know, and until so, until you get your home paid off in the next two to three years, your risk does your risk situation does not really change.

Um, but I like your idea.

There's nothing wrong with it.

Um, nothing hugely wrong with it.

I think I would move that way.

Uh, and again, I would not do it in the States because you'd be jacking your rate up.

Right.

And I wouldn't do it with a HELOC in the States either because HELOCs have horrible terms.

But, you know,

because you're looking at a traditional first mortgage, primary residence, the same type of mortgage on both things, and you're going to go through one more cycle before you, you know, one more five-year cycle before you get them paid off.

And you're going to be done.

Yeah, that's good.

Do you rent the cabin when you're not in it, or does it just just sit vacant?

No, so it's actually in a national park where we're not allowed to, but my wife is a teacher.

So we're out there basically all summer with the kids.

Does carrying these cut into your does it cut into your investing at all, your 15%?

No, so we actually passed the baby steps millionaire

threshold, I guess, in Canadian dollars.

It's not quite the same.

That's great.

Just a couple months ago.

That's good for you.

Yeah, I like it, Michael.

I think you're thinking it through.

It's not a

it's not dumb.

It's not in the stupid column or anything like that.

I don't think it's a lifesaver either, by the way.

It's not like, whoa, that changes everything.

No, it doesn't.

It's just kind of yawn a little bit.

And yeah, it's okay.

Move it over there.

But then let's lean in and get the stinking house paid off.

I want that first mortgage on your personal residence gone because that's going to change your life.

If the only thing you've got hanging over there is the cabin and you owe $400 on it or $300,000 on it by then

and you're cranking on it with a $260,000 income.

I'm a lot less worried about you at that point.

So, yeah, I think you're headed.

I would do it, but not because it's like life-changing.

It's just okay to do.

Nothing.

It helps a little.

I see your point.

I see why you're doing it.

While you're at it, you got to recast the mortgage anyway.

Then why not?

Yeah, reset it.

Let's do it.

Toby's in Ohio.

Hi, Toby.

How are you?

Hey, I'm good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Hey, so I had a question.

I'm 27, trying to navigate life a little bit here about bankruptcy.

I've got about $14,000 in debt, and part of that is a car loan.

That's about $6,500.

And that car is broke down now.

And I'm also homeless.

So I'm just trying to figure out if that's a smart move or not, or if it's something that I should live a cash life for the next

seven years or not.

How did you find yourself homeless?

Well, I originally tried to get into a place and they ended up switching over management.

I never got my application.

I ended up dropping a deposit and first month, but the new management returned that back to me because they ended up moving somebody in.

And that kind of saluted the effect of couch surfing and then making it harder to get in somewhere,

prolonging that.

So, how long has this been going on?

About eight months.

Okay, so when are you getting applied?

I don't know yet.

Are you working?

I'm trying to figure that out.

As of two weeks ago, I wasn't, or I'm not,

but I am applying currently and

waiting for a pending.

Explain what's going on with the work.

Why aren't you able to keep a job?

Well, a lot of times it was unwillingness at first, and then here in the last year, it was just, I think, I don't know if it was an excuse or not, but mentally, I just wasn't really enjoying being in my truck or couch surfing, and everything I was doing was going towards expenses.

Like,

you know, I screwed up, had a DUI last year, so I had some fees I had to be paying.

So,

Toby, you got a lot going on, man.

I do have a lot going on.

So, my friend years ago that taught me some of this stuff used to say that financial problems, including when I went bankrupt, sir, financial problems are not the problem.

They're the symptom of other things that are going on.

Symptom.

Yeah.

And so

your money issues are the symptom of all the other crap that's going on in your life.

Not keeping a job,

DUIs,

all this other stuff

are causing the money problems.

If you kept a job steady, you got you a little apartment to live in steady, you kept it clean, you kept yourself clean, you stayed out of the alcohol, you stayed out of the drugs, you kept working, working, working, working, working.

All of a sudden, these financial problems are going to go away.

You agree with that?

I do.

I do.

It's just, why do I find it so difficult then?

Because it's the same thing I had to face, and all of us have to face.

The problem with your money is the guy in your mirror.

And he's difficult.

By the way, when I look in the mirror, I get the same thing.

He's difficult.

If I can get that guy to behave, he'd be skinny and rich, but he likes donuts.

You know what I'm saying?

So, you know, I I mean, controlling the guy in our mirror is every one of us.

It's the thing we struggle with the most.

Okay.

And so, are you plugged in at all to a good church in the area?

I am.

Good.

I definitely am.

Good.

You know, if I were you, I would call up the pastor and say, hey, would you put two or three guys in my life to walk beside me and help me become the kind of man I want to be instead of the kind of man I have been?

Yeah, you know, and I've just recently been been finding that this kind of mentorship with some people.

Yeah.

And that mentorship kind of guided me with the self-reflection.

And that's why I was like, good, else should I call and find out?

Good.

Am I, should I file bankruptcy?

No, no, no, no, no.

No, Toby, you're not bankrupt.

You're broke.

You're broke and homeless and don't have a job.

You're not bankrupt.

Broke, homeless, and don't have a job.

If you get a job, you're not homeless, and you're making some money.

You can straighten up this car debt someday, maybe.

But I'm not worried about that car debt.

They ain't got anything to chase down.

If they come find you, they can't get nothing.

So you're what we call judgment proof.

But I want you to go have a life so then you can go deal with it.

But bankruptcies does not solve one stinking problem you have.

Not one.

If you ever googled yourself, here's the two worst things you can find.

Photo evidence of your worst haircut and your personal data floating around on some sketchy website.

I mean, the bangs were regrettable, but your info being bought, sold, and reposted all over the World Wide Web, even worse.

And trust me, it happens all the time.

And that's why I use DeleteMe.

You guys, over 20 billion records have been leaked in recent years.

And that info gets pulled into these people search sites.

So stuff like your name, number, address, even your kids' names is out there for anyone to see.

But if you're trying to clean up your personal data yourself, good luck.

It can be a part-time job just submitting these opt-out requests.

So if you don't want your personal info out there, you should be using Delete Me too.

Delete Me has real people who track down your data, remove it from these shady sites, and make sure it stays removed.

Plus, you get a report from Delete Me showing exactly what was found and what's been deleted.

So take back your privacy with Delete Me.

Right now, Ramsey listeners get 20% off at joindeleteme.com slash Ramsey with code Ramsey at checkout.

So do that today.

JoindeleteMe.com slash Ramsey, code Ramsey.

Hey, this is so fun.

The all-new

Every Dollar is coming.

And it's more than just a budgeting app now.

It's a complete financial game changer.

We're releasing a ton of advanced features to help you make progress with with your money.

If you've tried Every Dollar before, you definitely want to check in on these changes.

Boom.

People are finding thousands of dollars of margin in just 15 minutes.

Watch the premiere of the all-new Every Dollar, September 25th, to see real success stories and how you can be next.

Turn on your YouTube notifications to get notified when the premiere drops.

So George and Rachel and Jade are going to be doing that on the 25th.

That's about a week away.

And they're going to be unpacking a lot of these advanced features.

You're going to be, your mind's going to be blown.

It's pretty stinking incredible.

I've been doing this a long time, and we've come out with some really good things over the last three decades that have helped a lot of people.

This probably is the best thing we've ever done.

It's pretty amazing.

It's this beautiful mixture of proper use of technology and human beings.

Yeah, it's going to change everything.

All right.

Daniel's in Kentucky.

Hi, Daniel.

How are you?

Good.

How are you doing, sir?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Hey, I'm 56-year-old.

My wife is 55.

We have a son that's 16.

And my wife's been retired about two years.

I retired about two months ago.

And

we bring in enough for all of our expenses on a pension.

You know, our pension does that.

And I've got $30,000 in a 401k at my company previously, and $70,000 in an emergency fund, and uh about 400,000 just sitting in the bank.

Like a dummy, I just didn't invest anything.

Everything goes well.

We're fine right now, but inflation and any kind of buying a vehicle, we're going to have to go into that nest egg.

I'm going to start this talking about it.

You're 56.

You're probably going to live to 96.

You plan on sitting on your butt for 40 years?

Well, no,

I'm going to do, I wanted to do something I wanted to do because I'm away from home about two weeks, two days a week with the job I had.

So

okay, so what are you going to do?

I don't know yet.

Okay.

That'd be a good thing to figure out yesterday.

Yeah.

Yeah, let's get with it.

I'm 65.

I can't believe you're sitting on your butt at 56.

Yeah, you need to go do something, man.

Make some money.

And that solves a lot of these problems.

The second thing that solves a lot of these problems is investing the 400K.

Please.

Okay.

So in 2023, if you had it in an index mutual fund called an S ⁇ P ⁇ P that reflected exactly what the stock market did, in 2024, you would have made 23% and 26% those two years.

Now, that's not normal.

But just to point out, okay, here's what that means.

That's $50,000 a year.

You've lost $100,000 by having that $400,000 sitting on its butt in a bank account instead of invested well.

$100,000.

Why didn't you do it, Daniel?

Were you risk averse or were you just hadn't just never got around to it?

Fearful.

I've been conservative all my life.

Good.

Too conservative.

Okay, that's good.

I can work with that one.

All right.

So here's the answer.

There's two kinds of fear, and we've all got them.

There's fear of something that will hurt you.

And that's a real fear, and you should stay away from something that will hurt you.

The other thing that we're afraid of is things we don't understand and don't know about.

Okay, you're standing in the the middle of the interstate, 18-wheeler's coming at you.

You should be afraid and you should move.

You're going to die.

Okay?

You're going to touch a hot stove.

You should be afraid.

You're going to get a third-degree burn.

Okay, don't do that.

That's a real fear.

If your seven-year-old

son, when he was seven, he's 16, but if he was seven, is learning to ride a bicycle and he's afraid.

Well, he might fall over and scratch his knee.

He ain't going to die.

And he's going to get the joy of learning to ride a bicycle.

So he's afraid of something he hasn't learned to do yet.

Right.

When I drove a car the very first time, I distinctly remember I was 10 years old.

My dad tossed me the keys and gave me no instruction, which was a really dumb idea.

And all I can remember is it was a gravel driveway.

And when I pushed down on the accelerator all the way to the floor, I just about emptied the driveway with the back tires throwing gravel everywhere until the screaming stopped from all the neighbors, my mother and my dad, and I let off the accelerator finally.

But now I've learned to drive a car, and I'm not afraid of cars anymore.

But I was afraid that day of cars, okay?

With good reason, because I didn't know what the heck I was doing, right?

So that's where you are with investing.

Investing is not the 18-wheeler or the hot stove.

It's you don't understand it.

Right.

And it's not, the good news is it's not rocket surgery.

You can do it.

Everybody can understand this.

It's not that hard.

So Jade and I are going to send you to the

Smart Vestor Pros at ramseysolutions.com.

Click on the website.

Get one of those.

And Jade,

I mean, you came at this the very first time.

I had a finance degree, so

I had a jumpstart.

But you and Sam sit down with a Smart Vestor Pro the very first time.

You didn't know beans.

No.

How's that?

That's pretty intimidating.

It's intimidating.

And I will say I think it's helpful if you can engage with a show like this or do a little bit of research on your own.

So at least you can, because there's lingo and jargon and you want to feel like you understand that.

But if you sit down with the right person, they can help you understand it a little bit more.

It's really, I mean,

because here's the thing.

You buy a house, well, that's an investment.

There's no guarantee.

The federal government does not get, you know, there's no FDIC for your house.

You could lose the house.

You could lose the, the neighborhood could go up in a sinkhole.

You'd lose everything.

There's always risk.

I mean, there's, you know, there's a, but the neighborhood could go bad.

Sure.

You know, and instead, you go, okay, I'm buying a house in an area that has a long track record.

Right.

The trees are big enough I can predict the future based on the past.

That's right.

And that's what you do with an investment.

You pick out something that's got a long track record.

And then you've got to understand how to do it, like you had to understand how to buy that first house.

That's right.

And there's 19 moving parts, but they're really not that complicated.

Once you do it once, you go, yeah.

You start to figure it out.

It's doable.

So, you know, I think if you move that 400, Daniel, into some good investments and then get back to work,

because you're going to have a better life, man.

It's just more enjoyable.

There's just no, there's no dignity in sitting on your butt.

You got to use your skills and your mind.

Go do something big, man.

Go do something big.

Go make twice as much money as you've ever made in your life.

Start you a business and you go, wow, I'm so glad I quit that ugly job.

Act two.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Here we go.

Dave, you know, this is my favorite question.

If you didn't do finance and real estate, what would you do?

If you had to make yourself have an act two.

Finance and real estate.

Well, that's the only things I do.

I know, but I'm saying if you didn't do that, if tomorrow you had to pick something else, what would you pick?

I don't have any idea.

But before I decided, I mean, before I decided to not do this, I would have an idea.

But

I would go straight to the next thing.

Yeah.

No.

I mean, I'm a teacher at heart, but I'm not going into the classroom.

No.

So,

but I'm going to teach something.

I'm going to lead.

I love business.

I love running a business.

Okay.

So I would open something.

Open something.

Open something, helping people some way.

And it would probably involve teaching in some way or another.

But teaching is part of leadership, too.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

But yeah.

I thought you might have something off the wall.

No.

A pilot.

Never wanted wanted to be a pirate or a secret agent.

No, never did.

A pirate.

So just don't have any, I don't have any busted Dave dreams.

None at all.

It's all good.

So none at all.

No busted Dave dreams.

Yeah, that's it.

Anyway, yeah, that's what I would do.

I would sit down with a good Smart Vestor Pro and get it going that way.

And,

you know, I think that'll show you.

Begin to teach you.

They've got the heart of a teacher.

Yeah.

And having the heart of a teacher is the big thing.

And I do want to say this, because you asked the question.

When you first hear and learn about investing, the first time it doesn't sink in.

The first time you hear it, it's just like, it's like when you turn the,

it's like when you wake up in the middle of the night and you turn the lights on to go to the bathroom.

And then when you turn the lights off, you're like, you can't see anything.

That's like what it is when you hear about investing for the first time.

You're like, what was that?

I don't remember.

Where was it?

And then when you hear it the second time, it sinks in a little bit more.

Then the third time it sinks in.

And before you know it, you've heard it several times.

Now you're like, oh, I get it.

Now I understand.

So it's okay if the first time you hear it, you don't fully understand it.

That's normal.

Okay.

I'll go with it.

That's good.

The point is, learn about it because it's not going to kill you.

Yeah.

You need to learn about it and get comfortable with it.

And that'll get you there.

Wow.

For way too long, I struggled with sleep and woke up groggy after tossing and turning all night.

But now I look forward to bedtime and I wake up bright-eyed and bushy-tailed thanks to Casper, a company that's been perfecting better sleep for over a decade using durable, high-quality materials that actually last.

My whole family now sleeps on Casper mattresses.

Yes, even the dogs have their own Casper dog bed to no one's surprise.

And it's not just one man's opinion.

Casper customers keep their mattresses for years, and four out of five customers recommend them to friends.

And with free delivery and 100-night trial, Casper is no gimmicks.

A mattress you can trust backed by quality that lasts.

So go to casper.com/slash Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey to receive 25% off all mattresses and 10% off everything else with code Ramsey.

That's casper.com/slash Ramsey.

Exclusions apply.

Today's question of the day is brought to you by YReFi.

If your private student loans are in default, it can feel like nobody will work with you.

But YReFi was built for this.

They'll help you explore a fresh start.

Go to YReFi.com slash Ramsey.

That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey.

Not in all states.

All right, today's question comes from Dean in Iowa.

He says, if I have debt but also want to invest, why can't I do both and benefit from the compounding interest?

I'm 21 and have over $95,000 in college debt.

I won't be able to pay that before I turn 30, and I don't want to wait that long to build wealth.

Okay, so Dave, we hear this a lot.

It's kind of like that age-old argument of why can't I

invest whilst paying off debt or why do I need to wait till I'm done paying off debt to invest?

and the biggest thing I mean if I go back to the basis of it it is your income being your biggest wealth building tool so here's the thing you have ninety five dollars in debt which means a portion of your income is going to be going to paying that off and the longer you wait the more of that income is not helping you build wealth so while you might be able to put I mean, theoretically, yeah, you could put some money into investing, it's not going to be the full scale of what you could or should put in to build ultimate wealth.

So why wouldn't you just clear that out?

Because here's the thing.

The compounding interest.

Works on your debt too.

Yeah.

That's the thing.

That 95,000, that's going to accumulate, that's going to accumulate more and at a quicker rate than when you start from zero, investing, you know, your $100 here and there.

Yeah.

So, Dean, you're 21.

You can do whatever you want to do, honey.

You're like an adult and stuff.

But you wrote us an ask.

You're full of opinions, and they're all wrong.

And you wrote us an ask.

So here's the truth.

The probability of you getting out of debt, if you don't focus on it exclusively and with great intensity, and get your little butt in gear, the probability of you ever paying off that student loan is close to zero.

If you think you're going to wander out of this over 10 years,

like you've kept the flu for 10 years you're not going to do it

you're simply not going to do it we've worked with people getting out of debt for way longer than you've been alive

and so the you know tens of millions of people have followed our stuff and gotten out of debt and one of the keys is for you to get fired up and wired up where you turn it on.

Don't talk to me about being 30 years old and still having this debt.

How about 24 years old and it's gone?

Three years from now, $30,000 a year, because all you do is work, young man.

You have lots of energy.

Go use it.

Go get you some money.

You have made a mess and you need to clean up your mess.

And the faster you put this in your rearview mirror, with the faster the intensity, the higher the probability that you ever build wealth and the higher the probability you ever get out of the student loan debt.

The number of people who drag out student loan debt and systematically pay it off over 10 years or 20 years is almost zero.

They either do nothing and it stacks like cordwood in the backyard, or they get after it and they knock it out fast.

There's hardly anybody in the actual data that does the middle ground.

He goes, I'm going to very slowly and methodically.

Nobody does it.

They don't do it.

So you get fired up and wired up.

So your set of assumptions are wrong.

It's not going to take you nine years.

You're going to pay off $900.

I mean, $9,000 a year.

Come on.

How wussed is that?

Come on, don't be a wuss.

Do it, man.

Come on.

$9,000.

Come on.

That's nothing.

You need to pay off $35,000 a year because all you do is work.

Clean up your mess.

And then you're sitting there at 24 years old without this thing hovering over you,

like most of them broke Americans walking around with their own spare bedroom for freaking Sally Mae.

They've kept her around so long she's like a member of the family, the old ugly aunt with a wart on her nose.

And she's stuck in the back bedroom.

And we're paying payments for her all all the time.

We can't get rid of her because you won't give her an eviction notice.

You dude, roll up your sleeves and punch it in the mouth.

Tell Sally she gone.

You're out.

You're done.

You don't get to live here.

I don't like you.

You're ugly and you're inhibiting my future.

You are going away.

You have to get mad about it and knock it out fast.

It increases the probability of doing it.

It destroys your little formula because now you're out of debt at 24 or 25.

And now you can build wealth really, really fast because you're used to living on very little and paying off a bunch of debt.

We can transfer that to living on very little and investing.

You'll probably be a millionaire by the time you're 35 if you do what I tell you to do, what Jade told you to do.

But if you don't, you're going to be normal.

And if you want to look up the statistics on normal in America, normal sucks really bad.

You do not want to be normal.

It's a disaster.

So your goal is to be weird.

That's our thing around here.

I know that's right.

Yeah.

That's how you do it, man.

That's the answer.

And so, but yeah, if you make a set of assumptions, you're going to be there.

And by the way, compounding interest works on debt exact same math.

Works against you

as it does working for you with investment.

Right.

The only difference is the rate.

The only difference is the rate.

If you're saving money at the same rate that you're paying off debt, not paying off debt at the same rate, you have broken even exactly.

If you're doing it at a lesser rate, you still broke even because you're carrying around all this risk and the increased risk that that represents.

So the answer, folks, the way, you know, Jay, when I was growing up, a bunch of us little hailbilly kids, we were running in and out of the house and the back door being open and closing, opening and closing all day.

And, you know, your mother says stuff like, were you raised in a barn, that kind of stuff.

And finally, the heat of the summer, she would have it.

She'd be done with these kids running in and out.

The neighbor, kids, me, everybody else.

And she would just go, that's it.

The worm has turned.

Now, we had no idea what that meant, except that the beatings were getting ready to begin, right?

That's all we knew.

And so, but I found out later, it's actually from Shakespeare.

Who knew mom knew Shakespeare?

But yeah, there you go.

So, but all I knew was she was sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Yeah.

She had had it up to here with these kids and

putting all the air conditioning in the outside and running up the bill.

She'd had it.

And when you kind of got to get that thing going, like, Mama, the worm has turned.

I've had it.

I'm not living like this anymore.

I make too much money to be this freaking broke.

I live in the most prosperous time, in the most prosperous country, in the history of mankind, and I'm broke.

This is stupid.

I'm going to change.

When you get that thing going like that, a little preaching going on, then

you can turn it.

You can turn it around.

But, Dean, it's not a compound interest problem, honey.

It's a Dean problem.

Just like when I went broke, it was a Dave problem.

Listen, I think it's about him wanting to take the easy way out.

That's all I think.

I think you look at 95,000, you go, that seems like a lot of work.

It seems a lot easier to go over here and put my little hundred dollars over here.

I'm taking the easy route.

And I think it literally just boils down to that.

You can either do the work and get the full, the fullness of what you're supposed to have, or you can punk out and take the easy route.

You know, I said that this on the show last week.

I was being interviewed in a leadership situation the other day, and a guy said, You've got all these Gen Z's working for you.

And I said, Yeah, I love that generation.

They're incredible.

They're an incredible generation because they've grown up with a magic wand in their hand.

And if you push a button, stuff happens.

Things show up on your front porch.

Man, that's right.

Anything's possible for this generation.

They're a possibility generation.

And it's fast.

They think anything can happen, but it all happens fast.

That's the downside.

And he said, well, what about them being entitled?

I said, they're not entitled.

They're just impatient.

Yeah, that's good.

Because they're used to everything coming fast.

It comes easy, comes fast.

You just push a button and crap happens.

You can't even have an argument because somebody's got the answer before the argument's done.

It's like, good gosh.

And so, you know, it's, you know, but it's, you know, but here's the thing, guys.

There's no such thing as good microwave barbecue.

That's an oxymoron.

There's only one way to get barbecue.

You cook it long.

The neighbor's dog is howling.

That's how good barbecue is made, okay?

And it's like a long cook, long, slow cook.

And guess what?

Money's the same way, baby.

And so you can't push a button.

There is no easy button.

And while all things are possible to Gen Z,

you better buckle up, buttercup, because you're going to have to learn some maturity.

And one definition of maturity is learning to delay pleasure to get something better.

That's an emotional maturity.

That's psychological maturity, spiritual maturity right there.

You delay pleasure to get something better.

It's perseverance.

And you'll get a callus while you're doing that because you'll be working all the time.

And calluses are good for you, and patience is good for you.

It's called growing up.

But I tell you, man, it's a great generation.

If we dropped a little bit of that in the soup, they're going to be the best generation we've ever seen because they believe anything's possible and they go after it like it's possible.

But quit looking for the stinking easy button.

You're right, Jay.

You're absolutely right.

If you were gone tomorrow, would your family know where your important stuff is?

That's where KnockBox comes in.

The things you've done to protect your family, like term life insurance, a will, and a security system, aren't much help if your loved ones can't access them.

Knockbox, N-O-K, as in Next of Kin, Box, is a simple physical system that holds all your important documents, account info, passwords, policies, and plans in one place so your family isn't left digging for them.

Knockbox helps your family breathe in the middle of heartbreak and say, Okay, we know what to do next.

Love your family well by leaving them clarity, not chaos.

Go to knockbox.com/slash Ramsey to get started.

That's n-okbox.com/slash Ramsey.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

Jade Washall, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today.

Alyssa is with us in Chicago.

Hi, Alyssa.

How are you?

I'm good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

My question is: how much is too much to spend on a wedding?

Okay, that's cool.

How much are you thinking about spending?

$60,000.

Ooh, nice wedding.

Good.

Okay.

Do you have $60,000?

So we're actively saving to get to, we have about half right now.

So by next September, when the wedding would be, we would have that.

So mom and dad aren't tripping in.

That's you and him paying for it?

We are going with the intention that we're paying for it.

They've briefly mentioned that they might contribute, but no hard numbers have been given or anything like that.

Okay.

So you're assuming it's all on you.

So what do you make?

Yeah.

I make 90 before

what's he make?

190.

Cool.

Do you guys have any debt?

No debt.

Wow.

It's not too much.

It's not too much.

Okay.

Not if you pay cash.

That's exciting.

Okay.

You want to know how I did that?

Yes.

Here's fun, okay?

Average household income in America right now is about $75,000.

The average wedding in America is about $36,000.

It's about half of the average income.

So if you spend more than half your annual income on your wedding, and if you're paying for all of it, which just sounds like you are, okay,

then you're spending too much on a wedding because you're more than half the average.

Now, here's the thing to keep in mind.

Average kind of sucks in America.

We don't necessarily want to be average,

but you're below 50% of your,

way below 50% of your $270,000 income.

And so

you're

on a ratio basis, you are half of the national average,

which is half.

Weird way to say that, but yeah.

So, I mean, the national average would put, if you spent 50% of your all's income, it'd be 135.

So you're well below what the average person is.

And you're about half of that at 60.

And so you're very conservative as a ratio.

But now for somebody that makes 100 grand, it sounds like that, you know, Alyssa's lost her mind.

You know, but that's what people say that don't have any money and you've got some money.

So

yeah, when you have more money, you can spend more of it without it being a problem.

Yeah.

So if that doesn't include the honeymoon, and we added, I don't know, 10 or 15 on top of that, you know, I was talking about the wedding.

The honeymoon's a different story.

I think that'd be fine.

And the engagement ring is another story.

Yeah, that's a good differential, though, when we're talking about the wedding.

There are those three components.

There's the rings, then there's the actual party, and then there's your honeymoon.

What do you all do for a wedding?

I do medical sales, and he does product management.

Cool.

Okay.

Well, he's going to really like this.

Last suggestion.

We've done three weddings at the Ramsey's.

I've got three kids that are all married and been married many, many years, okay?

And Ramsey's, we like a big party.

We like to celebrate stuff like that.

And so

we threw major parties on each of these weddings.

It was a lot of fun.

But we learned, and we did it from the first one.

We introduced this idea that for your fiancé will love me, your wedding is a project.

So let's lay out a budget

in detail.

If we're going to spend $60, how much of that's the dress?

How much of that's the reception?

How much of that's the videographer, how much of that's the preacher, how much is the venue, and you lay out a budget, and then guess what?

You stick to the budget.

And that would be my word of wise for you, Alyssa, because when you hear what Dave said, which is,

yeah, which is technically you could be spending more if you were being, quote, average.

So for you, the hard part is going to say, even though we could spend more, we're going to stick to what we said in the beginning of 60,000.

Yeah, I would pretend like that you work for someone and your job was to manage a $60,000 budget and bring the event in on budget, on schedule.

Because you're manager project.

It's an event project.

I mean, we manage events here.

It's what it is.

And so this is.

So you'd get fired if you went over someone else's budget.

Yeah, if you work for somebody, you get fired if you screwed it up, right?

So just treat it like it's serious business.

And I know that doesn't sound very romantic, but people use romance as a way to do a lot of stupid butt stuff.

So no, we're not doing that.

So

no, just lay it out exactly.

And you say, this is, and you can pull up some percentages.

There's some good guidelines online for how much to spend on the dress.

I will go ahead and tell you, if you're going to have a nice reception to have the big party, it's going to be your biggest line item by far.

Like, how many people you think, I mean, 60,000, you're thinking about inviting a decent number of people, aren't you?

It's not huge.

So we've already booked the venue

and we're going through that process, but I'm more of the saver and he's more of the spender.

And so thinking of kind of the rough estimate that we put together with all the, you know, videographer, photographer, and all of that, it just sounds like a lot of money.

So I yeah, I would here's the thing.

You'll get hesitant and not.

You know what I'm saying?

You know what I mean when I say scope creep?

Yes.

Yeah, this project, this thing will creep up, and at 60 will turn into 80.

Mm-hmm.

If you do not line item this and no rough estimates, it's freaking what we're going to do.

And then when you're meeting with the caterer and they go, well, we can add devil league.

No, no, that's all we got.

This is what we're doing.

And, well, you know, we could spend, you know, freaking $85,000 on flowers.

Who's getting married here?

Princess Di?

I mean, seriously.

So, you know,

we're going to go in the field, pick some wildflowers so that we stay on budget.

Rachel actually did that one.

Well, if nothing else.

But she was over budget on other stuff.

And the only way she could get it back in budget was to get the flowers down.

If nothing else, plan for 54, so at least you've got 10% set aside just as contingency.

Oh.

That's what I'd do.

A little slush fund and the light.

Just in case.

Yeah, a little, just in case fund.

I'd have something in there for that.

I don't know if I get away with that, but wow.

Wow.

Yeah, that's exactly how I would do it.

And Alyssa, I think you're approaching it very wisely.

You're not counting on the people who have been vague about their possible input.

That way you're not under their control.

Matter of fact, whatever they come forth with, I'd probably just use that for the honeymoon.

I'd just lock this baby down on 60.

And just go, we're doing it.

And you and the fiancé sit down and agree to that.

Go, this is a project like you manage at work.

We're going to manage this.

We're going to come in on budget.

We're going to get the details out because there's always something that you can go higher.

You can always go one bigger, one better on every shrimp.

You get the extra large shrimp instead of the large shrimp.

What was the thing on the father of the bride?

Cheaper chicken.

Oh, yeah.

Cheaper chicken.

You get ice sculptures.

Yeah, that's it.

And so, yeah, you can do it.

And you can do that on a $10,000 budget.

You can do it on a $60,000 budget.

You can do it on whatever.

You just manage the budget.

That's right.

This is what we're doing.

And so it's just, we're going to have to get super creative.

We're going to do this for $7,800.

We had a lady here on the team that got married and had a really nice little wedding for $7,000.

And she just slapped, you know, they were trying to get out of debt.

And that's the most they weren't going to spend.

And

it was really very nice.

Can I tell you the, okay, Sam and I paid for our wedding out of pocket.

Oh, it was like 10,000.

Okay.

It was a little bit more.

But I, my biggest regret to this day, and it was in the name of doing it debt-free, we didn't have an open bar.

No open bar.

That's your regret that you didn't booze up everybody else for free

we were on a yacht we were it just made sense you should have had there should have been some drinks on board oh you you didn't have a oh there was no open bar there was no bar no no what not they couldn't even pay

No open bar would be like you paid.

No.

Well, I felt it was tacky to have people pay, so there just was no bar.

Just no, oh, well, okay.

I'll go with that.

Okay.

Listen, it was a mistake.

That's okay.

You know what?

They don't remember it.

You're the only one that guess so.

I don't know about that.

Sam doesn't even remember it.

Here's the deal, America.

The big wireless companies are literally banking on you overpaying every single month.

But not Boost Mobile.

Boost flipped the script.

You get unlimited talk, text, and data for just $25 a month.

$25.

That's it.

No contracts, no fine print traps, just real savings that stay in your pocket where they belong.

And if you're thinking, well, George, that sounds too good to be true.

Here's the mic drop.

They've got a 30-day money-back guarantee.

So you can try it risk-free and see how much you save.

Go to boostmobile.com slash Ramsey to make the switch today.

That's boostmobile.com/slash Ramsey.

Restrictions apply.

See boostmobile.com slash Ramsey for details.

Richardson, Oklahoma.

Hi, Richard.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, thanks.

Boy,

I don't really know where to start.

I'm beginning to

think I'm a lost cause.

I went through a very similar situation, actually an identical situation that you did,

but it was much later in life.

I was 55 when the banking, I was in the mortgage business for 10 years.

When everything crashed,

I lost everything.

I was completely ruined.

My c my confidence was kicked out the door.

So

I went through a few years of trying to get my act together and

went to Florida.

Basically, I went back to the one place that you never want to go, but the one place that's got to take you in.

So my mom was very elderly at the time, and

so I went down and I was taking care of her in Florida.

And then it got to a point where I was going to need somebody to help, so I got to driving a truck.

And it was something that was kind of conducive because it was like I'd be in the truck and they'd say, okay, where am I going now?

And

it was only going to be for a couple of years.

I was going to drive for a couple of years and then join the Merchant Marines.

I wasn't married.

I'd lost everything.

I had no children.

And

then

I was going to join the Merchant Marines.

I figured, okay, I'll drive the country for a couple of years, then go sail the world for a couple of years.

But then I had to put my mom into assisted living.

So in order to handle that, I sat on the truck truck and was paying for that.

And I also figured, well, you know, if something came down, I'm a day or two days away versus

a month to two months away.

I'm sorry, Richard.

How can we best help with the day?

Well, it's, well, it's,

you know, I never, I never sailed, you know, I never really planned it, you know.

Based upon a previous caller, I was always totally ignorant and intimidated and not knowing anything about investing.

Afraid of missing out,

afraid of losing, and then afterwards

missing out.

All right, now I'm 72.

How much money do you have now?

Right now I've got $40,000 in a savings account, 5%.

Okay.

Out of what, because then

after a couple of years, then I got involved with something else, and it looked like it was going well, and put good money after bad when COVID hit.

Are you still driving trucks?

Are you still working, Richard?

Yes, I'm still driving now.

My plan was

I wanted to have more of a nest egg.

I wanted, well, I shouldn't say nest egg.

I wanted to have, you know, my goal was to have $50,000 in the bank for me to get off the truck, get back to

get back to Texas, where there was a community there of people with common interests, and then really research what I could do

without having to try it.

What's going on with your

what happened to the house your mom was living in before she went in assisted living?

Well, when she died,

it was a, at one point, she had taken a reverse mortgage on it, so it went to the bank.

Oh, shoot.

Yeah, and it was a condominium there in

Florida.

So you said

it was worth nothing.

Right.

Yeah.

So there was

anything.

Are you just living in your cab?

Where are you living?

Yeah, I'm living on the truck.

Technically, I'm homeless.

I was living in Florida.

I had a room.

I was renting.

And how do you get it?

How do you microphone?

How do you mic?

Well, you know, I was just figuring that out because fortunately for the company I drive for that I've been with for a while now, a number of years, they have a minimum of $12.50 a week because you don't always, you can go out and get the way it is with driving, they pay by the mile, but they can pay a dollar a mile, but if you're only getting 300 miles a week, that doesn't really matter.

So what do you make, Richard?

With my Social Security, it comes to about $80,000 gross.

Okay.

And you don't have any overhead because you're living in the truck.

How much of that can you save?

Can you not save $40,000 a year?

Well, I've been

I had credit card debt, and I've been paying that down.

And then.

Is it gone?

There was a credit.

I thought you said you were debt-free.

Well, no, I didn't mean debt-free.

I'm sorry.

How much credit card debt do you have now today?

$2,500 out of what was at one time $60,000.

Okay, good.

And how much other debt do you have, Han?

Really, really, I owe the IRS.

But I'm getting with an account in the beginning next week.

How much?

Because I filed an extension.

Only $2,500.

$2,500.

All right, so $2,500 and $2,500 makes you debt-free.

And then you start stacking cash as fast and as hard as you can for as long as you can drive.

And you start stacking it to the tune of $4,000, $3,000 a month into a good gross stock mutual fund.

And you sit down with a Smart Vestor Pro.

If you can do that for five years, you could build a good nest egg.

I don't know if you've got five years left.

But in terms of passing your exams and everything, to stay on the road and be safe and all that.

But you've got to do this today.

You've got to start today.

Get online.

Find that.

Don't put it off because if you do, you're going to fall back in your same habit and you're just going to put it in a savings account and it's not going to do any of what Dave is saying it's going to do.

So you've got to do it today.

And I want to set up $3,000 a month automatically coming out of your checking account.

And then I want you to add more in addition to that.

going straight into mutual funds for your investing.

That's $36,000 a year.

You do that for three years.

It's $100,000.

It'll be $100 and a half by the time you get done with it with growth.

It'll be $300,000 before you know it after that in terms of more growth.

So you can actually build a nest egg, but you're going to have to lean on it.

And your adventures are over.

Now you're just grinding.

We ain't no more time for adventures.

We're just going to grind.

And no more interferences.

We have to grind.

Whatever comes up, we got to grind.

Whatever it is, we've got to shift the gears and go.

Shift gears and go.

Shift gears and go.

Got to make it.

You got to make up money.

And you take all the runs you can take and you pile the cash as high as you can pile it, as quick as you can pile it, because you are in emergency mode.

You're not a lost cause.

But if you don't change your ways, you are.

But it's not because the math is killing you, it's because you're killing you.

Do you think he owns it?

You got to get those two little debts cleaned up right now, as soon as possible.

Go ahead and write a check.

If you've listened to me for more than five minutes, you know that being normal with your money is not a good thing because normal is broke.

And I want you to be weird.

That's why I love what we're doing with Fairwinds Credit Union.

Our friends at Fairwinds just launched a brand new Ramsey debit card, and it says, debt is normal, be weird, right on the front.

I love that because every time you swipe it, you're choosing to live differently with no credit card payments and no debt.

You see, Fairwinds has been helping people like you ditch debt faster and build wealth for years.

They're not trying to shove credit cards or auto loans in your face like the big banks do.

And they've worked with us to create the SMART bundle for Ramsey fans.

It includes a no-fee checking account, a high-yield savings account to supercharge your emergency fund, and now the Ramsey debit card to help you stay focused on the baby steps.

We're excited for you to try it.

So check them out today at fairwinds.org/slash Ramsey.

That's fairwinds.org slash Ramsey.

Insured by the NCUA.

If you're ever around the Nashville area, stop by and see us.

We do the show on the glass live from 1 to 4 Central Time every day.

And there's usually 50 to 200 people out here,

partly to watch the show, but partly because the coffee and the homemade cookies are free.

So there's that.

And come by and hang out with us.

We do pictures at the commercial breaks and all that kind of stuff.

And you might have the opportunity to see someone stand on the debt-free stage right here in the lobby to do their debt-free scream.

Dave and Roxanne are with us.

Hey guys, how are you?

Hi, Dave.

Welcome, welcome.

Where do you live?

We're from Calgary, Canada.

Fine.

And how much debt have you two paid off?

$702,970.

Wow.

How long did this take?

About seven years and four months, Dave.

I smell a home payoff.

Yes.

Yes.

Good for you.

We're looking at weird people.

I love it.

What's this house worth?

About $800,000 right now.

Wow.

Very cool.

And how much in your nest egg these days?

About $320,000.

So you're millionaires, baby steps millionaires.

Yes.

How old are you two?

I'm 37.

I'm 45.

And you're baby steps millionaires in Calgary, Canada.

I'm so proud of y'all.

Awesome, thank you.

Way to go.

How's that feel?

Feels amazing.

Amazing, yeah.

How many millionaires in

your line?

Your parents, your grandparents, all that kind of thing?

No one.

No one.

You're the first one.

You broke it.

And my brother's here with me.

I think he's a millionaire.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

So both of you made it.

All right, good.

So a whole new line to the family tree coming with you, too.

Yes.

Way to go, guys.

I'm proud of you.

Excellent job.

All right.

And your range of income during that seven years?

Yeah, it's really interesting.

We started at $30,000, almost made nothing.

And by the end of the journey, seven-year journey, we

make about $700,000 right now.

Wow, amazing.

$700?

Amazing.

What do y'all do?

We started, I was a general manager of a cleaning company and a facility company.

I used to work in finance, in the government.

And along the way, we started an online business and in affiliate marketing.

And the sales started to pick and that's what we do full-time now.

In freight marketing?

No, no, affiliate marketing on it.

Affiliate marketing.

Oh, I take it, yeah.

Oh, wow.

Good for you.

Awesome.

Pretty cool.

Well, congratulations, you two.

Zoom, Zoom.

What a wonderful income.

This is very cool.

All right.

How did a power couple like you guys get plugged into the Ramsey stuff?

It started actually, I was listening to Joyce Mayer

sermon, and she talks about Financial Peace University, Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey.

So I started searching about you.

I got so excited about baby steps, and I showed it to him.

And he's very skeptical.

I was very skeptical.

I used to be a financial advisor.

I wasn't a big fan of Dave Ramsey at the time.

But our turning point was that it was February 2018.

At that point, we had about $86,000 of consumer debt.

24 failed businesses.

Wow.

And the only thing that was left for us was that we were managing

an apartment and we were leaving for free.

Again, our income was about 30,000.

We got home and we got an eviction letter saying we don't need you anymore.

And that kind of almost broke us.

And I remember that day we were afraid.

You know, we were mad at each other for you know saving nothing and living for free.

And I remember Roxanne prayed this very powerful prayer, right?

Yeah, I asked God to heal our finances, to lead us to a solution, and to lead us to the right opportunity.

And that's when Dave finally became open about looking into more about the FPU.

Yeah,

and that's when we, you know, for me, it's like total surrender.

I said, you know what, I may be a financial advisor, but as Dave would say, you know, I don't have a six-pack, right?

So

I'm a fat financial advisor, so I need to have total surrender.

And we went all in after that.

Wow.

Wow.

So you just plugged in online?

Yes.

Yeah, online, because

they don't, for what I know, they don't have it

in Canada.

And Canada doesn't like the word university.

Yeah.

When it's not like a real university.

So they won't let us in there.

But yeah.

Wow.

So cool, man.

I'm proud of you.

That's something.

Thank you.

Very neat.

So

what was the first thing you did to get the income up?

Yeah.

I mean, you're sitting there homeless.

Almost.

Almost.

So we started, you know, I started to apply on, I mean, full-time and, you know, like, we're employable.

So I got a full-time job, and then you got a full-time job.

We started to go back to actual work because we had this mentality of like, we're, you know, we want to be entrepreneurs, but we didn't want to have a full-time job because we have a wrong mindset about hard work.

So we all actually went back to full-time work, Roxanne and I, and then we went intense.

We had cleaning jobs, we had, you know, the best

side hostel for us was like we had a, we rented our apartment that we were living in, right?

Yeah.

Because we were living in a two-bedroom apartment,

and we started to rent the second bedroom to international students.

And that I think it gave us like $500 extra.

And then we sold our Mercedes-Benz.

It took us like three months to really think about it.

So we sold that Mercedes-Benz.

That free us more cash flow for us.

And then we sold some stuff in Facebook Marketplace as well.

And

we did cleaning jobs.

Yeah, everything that we saw that wasn't, you know, we had like three iPads for some reason.

We sold two.

of them.

I had an old golf club.

We sold it.

You know, I had an old suit.

We put it in FB Marketplace.

everything.

Everything must go.

There was a.

So, where did you grow up?

I grew up in the Philippines and grew up in the Philippines too.

Okay.

And so you moved to Canada.

Sure.

Whole new opportunity.

Yeah.

Whole new set of things.

bunch of failed businesses, take the full-time jobs, plus all the side hustles, start scratching and digging, and one of those side hustles became the affiliate marketing that blew up.

Yeah, along the way,

you know,

I wanted to come here to thank you, Dave, because we talk about that

this journey healed us because on those businesses, it wasn't the business per se.

It was, you know, our impatience.

You know, we had a sickness called ABD.

I call it attention businesses order, right?

When the business became challenging.

It sounds like an entrepreneur to me.

When the business became challenging, we said maybe there's something easier out there.

But baby step two really taught us to be patient,

have spirit of contentment, be creative, be resourceful, everything an entrepreneur needs, right?

And when we hit our, you know, the business along the way, it was February we started, October 2018 is when we started affiliate marketing.

That's it, took off because, you know, God blessed that business because we now have the character, the foundation

that sits on it.

Something.

You guys are incredible.

Thank you.

It's amazing.

Yeah.

Wow.

Preach it.

Preach it.

I love it.

Well done.

So proud of you.

Thank you.

Way to go.

How's it feel now to be this age?

And,

you know, I mean, you go through all of that, and now you're millionaires already.

And it was not a smooth journey.

It was a gut-wrenching journey,

but rich,

rich.

And

so how's it feel now that you're there?

It feels weird to be weird.

It feels amazing.

At peace, knowing that, you know, we're taking care of God's resources.

We learned that it's not our money,

it's God's money.

and we realize that if God blessed us earlier, we would lose it.

But now, because God knows that we're prepared, so we can handle more.

When you're faithful in the little things, you'll be given more to manage.

It's pretty much in his scriptures.

Love it.

Proud of y'all.

Very, very well done.

And you brought your son with you, right?

Yes.

Bring him up.

You want to introduce him, having part of this?

Yes.

All right.

How old is he and what's his name?

He's four years old.

His name is Caleb.

Hey, Caleb.

Well done, brother.

All right.

He just made a handoff here.

Yeah, right.

I love it.

Very cool.

Good-looking guy.

Fun, fun, fun.

He has no idea how much of a hero his mom and dad are.

They've changed their entire lives.

Very cool.

Their entire family tree is completely shaken up.

Way to go, Caleb.

Pretty cool.

You selected good parents, brother.

So cool.

Good job.

All right, Dave and Roxanne and Caleb.

$703,000 paid off in seven years and four months, making from $30,000 to $700,000.

Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one.

To God be the glory.

We're debt-free.

I love it.

That's about as good as it gets right there.

Man, how fun.

Way to go, you guys.

What does the future hold for business?

Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers.

Economic growth or a recession?

Business taxes will go up or down.

AI will help us work or it will replace us all.

But there's no such thing as a crystal ball.

That's why more than 42,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one AI cloud enterprise resource planning system.

Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should too.

Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities.

With one unified business management suite, there's one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions.

decisions.

NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data.

And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next.

And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com/slash Ramsey.

It's free at netsuite.com/slash Ramsey.

If you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on?

How would they pay the mortgage, afford groceries?

If anyone in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance.

But how do you choose from all the options that are out there?

Well, it's actually simple.

Life insurance is one job, and that's to replace your income.

If you die, term life insurance is the only thing that does only that.

The others, like whole life or permanent life, try to add in investing.

They end up doing a bad job job at everything you only need life insurance while someone depends on you financially so if you're like most people you need a policy worth 10 to 12 times your income for 15 to 20 years

and it should be a level policy meaning the premium stays the same to find more info and resources use our free term life insurance guide go to ramseysolutions.com slash term life guide or click the link in the description if you're listening on youtube or podcast ryan is in idaho Hey, Ryan, what's up?

Well, thanks to technology, I'm calling you from the tractor seat.

So what's kind of neat?

So

I guess the main reason for my call is you always say, if you woke up in my shoes, what would you do?

So I guess I'm just looking for a little advice.

So me and my wife have been married about five years.

We've had a couple of little kids, and I pursued a degree in diesel mechanics and then moved to a commercial potato farm as a diesel mechanic.

So this time of year, I make a very large substantial amount of money during the harvest and then kind of tapers off during the rest of the year as we do maintenance and other things.

So I kind of live on a boom and a bus cycle.

And we've kind of been working the baby steps, trying to get stuff paid off while we have the money to do so.

And

I've kind of just been trying to figure out what to do.

My wife's been very sick.

A lot of our debt is actually medical debt.

And we found kind of a, I guess it's like a hormonal therapy.

It's kind of an extensive

program to help her feel better.

And I'm kind of in a weird place where I'm making a lot of money.

And I'm like, well, Do I take the money and start paying off debt or do I take some money and help her feel better so we don't have as much medical debt in the future?

You help your wife.

You help your wife, sir.

Before you're doing that.

Before you're doing that, take care of that.

What's the nature of her illness?

It's more hormonal.

All the doctors have kind of said after she had babies, it just kind of messed with her hormones.

And so we kind of been to a bunch of different doctors.

And really the biggest issue is that

it's not covered under any kind of insurance.

It's not anything we can just take care of.

And so we've sought out a lot of

people.

Are you struggling with depression after the postpartum?

Oh, all sorts of different things.

Depression on top of just actual illness.

I mean, she's sick all the time.

She doesn't feel good.

And trying to take care of two little kids while

I'm out in the field gone all day.

It's just.

What's it costing you?

What's it costing you to do the treatments?

Are you just, you're hitting your max every year?

Is that what it is?

No, it's completely, it's got to be completely out of pocket.

So the doctors have said it's about a $6,000 procedure, but I just have to come up with cash.

$6,000.

What I can do, obviously,

I make a lot of money right now.

What's a lot of money?

I don't pay anything on my debt.

What's a lot of money?

I make about $20,000 a month during harvest.

Okay.

And so for three or four months, I can make $60,000.

Yeah, I can stockpile a lot of money right now.

So you make $60,000 in three months, but then you don't make much the rest of the year.

Yeah, what do you make the rest of the year?

I average

I make about 80 a year.

Okay.

And so I'd say probably half.

It's probably closer to 30 or 40 grand during harvest, and then the rest of the year kind of evens out, so I still have a consistent paycheck.

Okay.

All right.

And

okay, so I don't know anything medically about where you are, but if you have a high probability in your mind and you've solved for that, that this, I mean, you work on engines, and so if the doctors have convinced you that this will work on your wife,

you know,

is this a high probability of a fix?

I don't want to throw $6,000 on something that they just hope it might work.

You know, it's a 10% probability.

No, thank you.

I'll figure out something else.

But if there's

a high healing rate, for whatever it is she's struggling with with this particular procedure and you can do it for $6,000, I just put that at the top top of the list

okay

everything's everything's paying minimum payments and you're living on a budget and you come up with six grand and then we go back to we're living on a budget and we start paying down the smallest debt to largest debt okay

and that's kind of what it it was kind of hard because it's not it's one of those things where it's like i feel like we should pay it but Even my wife's in here, like, we need the money for other things.

We're trying to pay off debts.

We're trying to get.

Well, I mean, you're probably spending six thousand dollars on medical bills, though.

Right,

that's the thing.

If you don't do this, you're going to spend the same money coming in and out of the hospital, right?

On other things,

I guess.

I don't know.

I don't know what you're dealing with, and I'm not a medical doctor.

If you know, I couldn't tell you if I did know, but it's a fairly the way you've explained it, it's pretty vague.

I have no idea what she's facing, but

you know,

I don't know.

It sounds like it's an immune disorder of some kind.

I don't know, but I do know.

I think the hard part is when you're wanting to go, you know, hard on the baby steps,

it's hard to let other things go in front of that.

But the truth is, yeah,

when you have a health concern or something that's very seriously affecting your health, that does need to jump in.

Yeah, well, not only do we not want to be sick and not want to hurt, but on top of that, just the mathematics are you come out ahead.

Yeah.

If you don't have the medical bills because you paid the money to get the hurts to get the treatment, you know, assuming it works.

And that's the thing you've got to understand.

You all need to be your own advocate with these

off-insurance procedures and make sure you've got a high probability of this stuff and it's not some witch doctor thing.

I don't have any idea what you're getting into here.

But I truly know nothing about it.

And I can't tell anyway.

I couldn't tell based on what you told me anyway.

So,

yeah, if you think it's going to help your wife, then it gets first.

But I'm going to want a high degree of due diligence to really know that I know that I know that this is going to have a, you know, that nine out of ten patients, they do this, then they quit having the ongoing illnesses, right?

Yeah, that's right.

Whatever it is we're trying to accomplish here.

Let's

see some cause and effect to this, not just, oh, well, I think this will work.

Let's try her as our next guinea pig.

No, I don't want to do that either.

Thank you, Kermit.

That's okay.

We'll pass.

Jay's with us in Arizona.

Hey, Jay, what's up?

Hey, so I got a question for you.

my um

i don't really know where to start my my little sister was killed in an accident um a couple years back oh my god the company responsible for it basically just failed to meet a whole bunch of safety regulations

we have

22.

wow so sorry

sorry

we have we have received a wrongful death payout um

the grand total I don't know about.

I have requested that I have no interest in knowing.

I just want to know what affects me.

And basically, what affects me is that my parents have set up trust accounts for everybody with

enough in them under the management of a financial advisor that I'm told that we'll set up generational wealth.

I will not have to worry about retirement.

My kids will not.

My grandkids will not.

And we are being given, on top of that, all of our debts outside of four walls are being wiped out.

Wow.

And then a one-time financial gift of $38,000.

And

you know, my parents' finance.

Where did that amount come from?

In Arizona, the maximum amount that a married couple can give their kids is $38,000 before Uncle Sam wants his house.

Got it.

Okay.

$15,000 a person.

Uncle Sam lives in Washington, not in Arizona.

That's fair.

But

they've debrandied the crap out of their finances.

They're almost debt-free and they weren't five years ago.

So your mom and dad are receiving this money.

Correct.

And you don't know how much it is?

I don't know how much the grand total is.

No, how I.

What I would do is operate my life as if it wasn't there.

And I would save for retirement, and I would say for my kids' college.

And then if any of this money does come your way as a result of all this

trust funds and all these things they're doing, then it's just gravy on the biscuit.

It's just extra money.

But I would continue to operate my life normally as if this wasn't there.

And then if it comes, fine, if it doesn't come, fine.

Hey guys, I'm so excited to tell you that our new 2026 Ramsey Goal Planner is available right now.

This isn't just your average planner.

It's your personal guide to setting clear goals and building habits that stick.

So get ready for all new monthly content from your favorite Ramsey personalities, tactical goal setting trackers, and upgrades that make this our most durable planner yet.

Last year we sold out, so don't miss out.

Order your 2026 Ramsey Goal Planner for $49.97 today at ramseysolutions.com/slash store.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios.

Jade Washall, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today.

Barbara is in Dallas.

Hey, Barbara, how are you?

I'm good.

Thank you for taking my call.

Sure.

What's up?

I'm very nervous.

That's okay, darling.

We've never lost a patient.

How can we help?

I'm calling weakheads.

I'm going to try to get through this without crying.

My mom recently suffered a series of strokes.

And since then,

she had some short-term memory loss.

And the medical staff basically said that she should not be by herself anymore.

And so she does live alone.

And she lives about four hours from me.

She used to live with me.

I'm wanting her to come back to live with me, but I'd have to

build onto my house to do that.

I'm recently debt-free following the baby's steps, and I just don't know what to do because I don't have the money to

build saved.

So I was hoping that could help.

How old is she?

75.

And you said she's had a series of strokes?

Yeah, she had seven seven mini strokes.

Oh, wow.

So is she mobile?

Yes.

Physically she's strong.

It's more her memory that's been affected.

Okay.

Th that's yeah, that sounds right.

All right.

Um, how what is her financial condition?

She

no savings, no retirement,

nothing basically.

She has no money?

No.

She own her house?

She has a mortgage, but yeah, she has her house.

What's it worth?

Probably about $150.

And what is owed on it?

$50.

Okay.

All right.

Are you the

only child?

No, I have two siblings.

Okay.

Are they going to take care of her?

They are right now.

My sister lives about an hour.

She goes on the weekends.

And then my brother lives about 30 minutes.

But they work in town, so they go during the week.

But she's by herself for the rest of the day.

So that's probably what that would look like if she stayed there.

Sounds like that.

She needs to sell her house and be moved into assisted living to me.

I don't think you need to build on.

Okay.

Number one, your brother and sister are in town where she is.

You're the one that's four hours away.

You're going to move her four hours away from them.

And you need their help.

And you need their help, and they're willing to help.

And they're good people.

They've been trying to help as best they could with their schedule.

Okay.

Yeah.

And number two,

if I'm 77 and I've had a series of strokes,

I don't know what my probability is to live five more years.

What do you think?

I have no idea.

I don't know.

But it doesn't sound good.

You know, I don't think this is a...

Most people that are in that situation don't live 15 years.

Would you agree with that?

Sure.

Yeah, I mean, we're all going to go sometime.

I'm not trying to be cold.

I know it's your mom, but I'm just trying to say, you know, you don't need to go spend $50,000 or or $60,000

for something that's going to be for four or five years.

Even if she did live longer than that, it's probably going to get past your ability to care for her.

Yeah.

Because even if you, even if you took, let's just say, look, let's say you did sell her house and take the money and use it to build onto your house.

It still doesn't cover the fact that you wouldn't be working because you'd be home taking care of her, right?

Because

the fact remains that someone still has to take care of her during the day.

Yeah.

Listen, I love your heart, and

I hope my kids want to take care of me as badly as you want to take care of her.

I think that's awesome.

And that's an act of love, and that's a good heart thing.

I'm just trying to help you through the actual

realities of your desire.

What is your desire?

What's the reality of your desire to do this wonderful thing?

And then what's best for mom?

What's going to give her the best quality of care?

I think she's got those two kids right next to her.

I would find some kind of assisted living there,

and I'd sell the house and put her in that.

And if

she outlives that money there, then we'll work on something else.

Okay.

But I suspect that you could probably get

reasonable care in that area.

I don't know.

You just have to shop around and find out what's available and what can be done and so forth.

Does either your brother or your sister have room for her if they had had someone there to care for her in their home?

They do, but

and they've offered for her to go live with them, but she keeps saying she doesn't want to.

She wants to come here.

Why

is there something with that?

Because whenever we've mentioned your siblings, you kind of have a bit of a pause.

And yet they're both doing their thing.

They're helping.

Yeah,

they are.

They definitely are.

Do you just have the closest relationship?

Say it again, huh?

She used to live here with me.

And when my dad was here, my dad passed away in 2018.

Are you single?

Yes.

Okay.

All right.

Well, I mean,

how many bedrooms do you have?

I have a three-bedroom house.

Why would you need to build on?

The problem is, is that she's got three dogs and I have three dogs.

No, she doesn't.

This is not.

This can't be about dogs.

We're not building on to a house for dogs.

Yeah.

No.

No.

Different discussion.

Yeah.

Sorry, mom, you want to live here?

We don't have three dogs.

I can help you with that.

I love dogs.

I love my dog more than I do most humans, but no way.

No way.

Dogs don't make this decision.

This is too important, too big a decision.

We're trying to figure out how to care for a lady who's had a series of strokes, and now dogs enter the discussion.

New, new, new, new, new, new, new, new, new, new, new.

So, no, she can move in with you.

The dogs can't.

She sells her house, and you put her in one of the bedrooms, and you hire somebody to care for her there

if you don't want to put her in assisted living.

It's actually a better economic idea.

Better economic value anyway.

So, yeah, that's easy.

Okay.

Let the dogs go stay with somebody.

Rehome them.

Is that what they call it now?

I don't even even care.

I just, now I know what the real deal is with the situation.

Yeah, the kid, the brother and sister said no dogs.

Yeah.

And now you're going to go into debt.

You called us to go into debt to build a wing for the dogs.

Come on, girl.

Seriously.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Now we've gone crazy.

No, no.

You take care of your mom.

That does not include taking care of her pets.

This is a lady who has no money, has saved no money her whole life, and now her family is going to have to care for her.

They are not obligated to take care of her dogs.

I'm sorry.

Dave's so cold.

He's so mean to animals.

He doesn't like animals.

I love animals.

Yeah, but this is

just way off the chart.

See.

Hey, what's up?

Dr.

John Deloney here.

The new dates have dropped for the Money and Marriage getaway over Valentine's Day weekend in 2026.

This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee.

Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication, and more.

This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th, and early bird prices start at $749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon.

Get your tickets today at ramseysolutions.com/slash events.

Well, big news, the Fed cut rates for the first time all year, and the 15-year fixed rate mortgages have dropped to the lowest we've seen in 11 months.

If you're financially ready, now's a great time to buy or sell.

Lower rates could save you thousands over the life of your loan.

But if you sit on the sidelines waiting for the perfect moment, you could miss the window and you might end up paying more in home price.

for the exact same house.

So buying an affordable home you love is possible when you work with a Ramsey trusted real estate agent.

These are pros that are handpicked by us to guide you through the market and keep your financial goals in mind.

They're the top agents in your area.

Find a trusted local pro for free at ramseysolutions.com slash agents or click the link in the show notes.

Joseph's in California.

Hi, Joseph.

How are you?

Hey, I'm doing great, sir.

I got a question

about a few problems I'm facing currently.

Okay.

Yeah, so I currently, okay, so I've been a full-time gig worker.

I've been driving for Uber and Lyft, and I financed two vehicles.

The first one I financed was a Honda CR-V.

And when I bought it, I bought it

at the peak when prices were so inflated, you know, dealerships were marking up prices and there was low inventory and the car prices were much higher.

So what'd you pay?

I financed it for $60K.

This was in 2022, like the beginning of 2022.

You financed a Honda for 60K to drive Uber.

Okay, so it was like 59 out the door.

Well, Well, I mean, you financed a Honda

for $50,000 or $60,000 to drive Uber.

And it's a CRV.

Correct.

Because I got, so the thing is, I got advice from other drivers that, hey, you can really make good money.

You got financial advice from other Uber drivers.

Yeah.

You just said that out loud.

Yeah.

Wow.

Okay.

Okay.

So you got the $60,000 car.

What else?

Yeah.

And so it was just a regular SUV.

And so I was making decent money at first.

I was making about $2,700 a week easily.

And then I started seeing my earnings go down because then Uber, you know, they got rid of this one program called Uber Green, which most hybrid vehicles qualified at the time.

And, you know, Uber Green is like that feature that gives passengers the option to ride in a vehicle that's eco-friendly, right?

And so a lot of them think that, you know, a clean hybrid vehicle or Tesla is going to show up to pick them up.

So they got rid of that feature.

So all hybrid vehicles don't qualify for that.

So then my, I would say, my earnings dropped by like five or six hundred dollars.

Then I was like, shoot, I was talking to other drivers.

They were like, hey, you might need to level up, get an XL vehicle, which is like a three-row seat SUV.

Right.

So then what I did.

So did you trade in the CR-V for no, no, no, no.

I, I went to the, I went to the dealership.

I put down, because I had savings of 50,000.

I put down 30,000 to get the, um, it was an accurate MDX.

So you kept the Honda CR-V CR-V and then got an accurate MDX?

Yeah,

they didn't want to, the dealership was like, hey, you take it.

There's like a lot of negative equity.

So I was like, maybe I should take it.

Maybe you should just keep this call.

So would you pay for the MDX?

Yeah, I dispersed the miles

about $54,000.

Oh, Lord.

And I got this, but I got this a little later.

I bought this one in like 2024.

You financed 54,000.

So you put down 30 and financed 54.

So you paid 84 for it?

Yeah.

Stupid, sir.

Exactly.

I'm really pissed off at my age.

Joseph,

how old are you, Joseph?

29, sir.

Okay.

All right.

Do you have a real job yet?

And

I did at the moment, but

I wasn't making the kind of money that I was making doing Uber and Lyft.

No, honey, you weren't making any money doing Uber and Lyft because you haven't been smart enough to factor in all the losses on your vehicles.

You're right.

When you factor that in, you didn't even break even.

And by the way, you didn't take out gas and repairs either, did you?

No.

Yeah, and I was going to get to that.

Yeah.

By the time you do all of that,

you didn't even make money on all this.

You've been working for free for Uber.

That's true.

At first, I saw the money was great.

You know, like when I got a business.

No, the gross revenue was great.

The net profit was not great.

$3,500.

Right.

There's a difference.

Yeah.

Okay.

So now you're stuck in these two cars, honey.

What What a mess.

And do you have a job now?

Currently, yes, I do have a job.

What do you make?

Unfortunately,

about 22 an hour.

Not a lot.

Okay.

What were you doing?

I don't have a lot of skills.

What were you doing before your Uber escapades?

I was just I was working as an yeah, I was just doing regular minimum wage jobs, you know, like working in customer service industry, like like fast food restaurants, you know, service industry, and then, you know, security.

The Acura, you put $30,000 down.

You should not be upside down.

You should be able to sell this vehicle.

What's it worth?

There, okay.

So, if I were to sell it to a dealership,

private sale, please.

Private sale, not private sale.

Private sale, I mean, it's worth on Kelly Blueberry about $48,000.

Because I don't know what?

64, a little over 54.

But the problem is, I don't have any money left over, so I wouldn't even be able to pay the difference.

I understand that.

I'm just trying to.

You put down $30,000.

You've driven it one year, and you're already upside down.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

Are you sure?

Wait a minute.

Is that what the money is?

There's just no way.

Yeah.

How many miles do you put on it?

How many miles do you put on it?

About 30,000.

Oh, something doesn't add.

Does that sound right?

No.

I was going to say, that doesn't add up to me.

Okay, so,

well, here's the deal.

Well, no, because it's a newer, it's a 2024.

That's why the value is not so low.

That's why it dropped so much.

Still.

Oh, no.

Wait,

I'm confused.

Were you guys expecting a lower number than 40,000?

Well, typically.

I was expecting a higher number.

Yeah, because you put 30,000 down, which means there's that much room.

You had to lose $30,000 in value before you got upside down.

Right.

Right.

But when I bought it, it was brand new, had zero miles.

I put 30,000 miles on it.

Which is not a lot.

It is in one year, but it's not enough to devalue it that far.

All right.

And they're rough miles we bring.

Is your credit terrible?

Can you go down to the bank and get a loan for the difference?

Yeah, it's kind of bad because I'm late.

I've been late for a month

on one vehicle.

And I assume both of these loans are with the car companies, right?

Yeah, both with the same.

Yeah.

No, they're with the same?

Who are they with?

You know, Honda, we call it finance.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They have like their own finance and

got it from the same dealership.

And so.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, what I'm going to do is try to scramble and get out of these cars with car loans and extra work.

I want you to work a bazillion hours and not at Uber.

Actually, you got two cars sitting there.

You could go make some money with Uber now and pile up some cash really, really fast.

I mean, how fast can you make $6?

$6,000.

How fast can you make $6,000 and just put that aside and get rid of this one car driving the other one?

Drive the Honda.

So

that's what I was trying to tell my family members that maybe I should move to a different market where I can make that money because my earnings drop.

Listen, you can make $6,000 doing anything.

I don't care if you get a job at Target.

Ma'am, I get that.

It's not simple, you know, especially with like, I got to pay for like groceries.

I got to pay for, you know,

what market are you in?

Yeah, it's very California.

I know.

We're in California.

Yeah.

San Francisco.

Okay.

Yeah, you probably do need to move to a different market.

You're in one of the most expensive markets in the world.

The only good thing is the Uber is expensive, but other than that, your cost of living is coming up.

That's going to

you know, but I do want you to do something to earn a bunch of money as fast as you possibly can.

And yeah, if you move, that's fine.

But you've, you know, you've got to reverse the things that are killing you.

And that the first thing is to not be driving the Honda, the second car, because we've got to get out of it.

It's the one you have a chance of getting out of.

The other one, you're neck deep in it.

And if you just turn these cars in, they're going to sell them for 50% of what you think they're going to sell them for.

And they're going to sue you for the difference, and you're going to find yourself in bankruptcy.

And you're going to find out that Uber, your Uber career bankrupted you, along with some really stupid decisions.

But that's where you're going to end up if you don't fight your way through these.

So voluntary repossession or straight-up repossession are really, really bad for you, Joseph.

So your best thing to do is to control the price of the sale, the sale price of the car, and the hole that you're in that corresponds to that by getting these sold, by covering the differences.

You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best.

If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program.

SmartVestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more.

Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options so you never have to invest in anything you don't understand.

Head to ramseysolutions.com/slash smartvestor to get connected.

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros.

Learn more at ramseysolutions.com/slash smartvestor.

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Zach and McKenna are with us.

Hey guys, how are you?

Good, we're doing well.

Yeah, welcome.

Where do you guys live?

We're out in the Seattle area in Washington State.

Cool.

Welcome to Nashville.

Good to have you.

And how much debt have you two paid off?

Whopping just north of $68,000.

Nice.

Good for you.

And how long did that take?

Took about two and a half years.

Good for you.

And your range of income during that time?

Started off at about $117,000, took a dip to zero, and now we're looking at finishing off at about $150,000 this year.

Good.

What do you guys do for a living?

I'm a police officer.

Cool.

Yep, and then I stay home with our four kiddos.

Love it.

Love it.

Congratulations.

And what kind of debt was the $68,000?

Well, it was a little bit of everything.

A big chunk of it was medical debt.

We had car debt.

We had credit card debt.

And I think that was about it.

Oh,

pretty much everything you could have.

Normal.

And the normal.

Good mix.

Normal's no fun.

How long have y'all been married?

It'll be

10 years.

Okay.

That's about the mark.

Yeah.

It took you that long to get there.

Yeah.

Okay.

And then

two and a half years ago, something happened.

What happened?

Yeah, we were kind of, it felt like our paycheck was constantly robbing Peter to pay Paul type of thing.

Our credit cards were just maxed out, and when they just had just enough wiggle room, we'd pull from another account to pay for that bill and this bill.

And it just got to a point where

we felt like we're on a sinking ship and we just had to change something.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was pretty.

I feel like too, our just are

I mean, we had always felt fairly stressed out, you know, with finances and we were always just barely making, you know, it to pay our bills.

And that was really stressful, obviously.

And then you bring four kids into the picture.

Oh, yeah, sure.

All of a sudden, that stress becomes just even more so.

So how did you find us?

It's funny.

My mom, I was a missionary for my church way back in the day, and she gave me a book.

I forget which one, we've read a whole bunch of them, but she gave it to me, and I read it.

And for whatever reason, I didn't think we had to go past the first baby step of a thousand-dollar emergency fund.

We did that forever, and then it was like, oh, yeah, we're not supposed to have debt.

So we've always been around and exposed to it.

And then my little pea brain finally figured out that we're supposed to get past that first baby step.

And that's kind of where we just when we hit that head of we can't really pay for anything anymore and we got to make a change.

And that's kind of when we got back into things.

So yeah.

Wow.

What's the story on the 117 to zero?

Yeah.

So I worked in the tech industry and it was during COVID.

The market was real hot.

It was really easy to get a job and that's when I got up to 117.

And then as COVID kind of died down, I got laid off for about five months and so that went down to zero.

And that was in the midst of us trying to pay off our debt.

So that was a really big hurdle in the whole middle of that.

And that's why I made the career change from working in tech to now being a police officer.

Wow.

Yeah.

Very cool.

And in Seattle proper?

Just outside of Seattle.

Yeah, real close.

Okay.

Good for you.

Wow.

Well done.

That's a big deal.

You know, paying off $68,000 with four kids at home, middle of a career change.

I mean,

I have some guesses, but what was the hardest part?

It was just the...

I think we were talking about this earlier, and for us, it was just the time away.

Being the sole provider,

I was putting in 60 to 80-hour weeks for almost two and a half years.

And so it was...

Just the time away from the family and the kids was really, really hard.

Yeah, we had a lot of conversation with the kids because he went from being a work-at-home dad.

You know, he was at home with his tech job.

And so it was really hard all of a sudden to have him at home 24-7 basically.

And then he lost his job for a few months.

He was home extra.

And then he, and then, you know, we made our goals and we're like, we just got to work really hard, especially with his job.

He was able to work overtime.

And so, I mean, he's been gone a lot.

And he still is because we've got some goals we're working towards.

And

so, yeah, we had lots of hard conversations with the kids.

And luckily, though, they've been on board with us, which we've been grateful for.

And we'd rather do it now while they're little than

you know, later.

And

gosh, yeah.

Yeah, you're changing your whole family tree.

It's worth it.

Oh, yeah.

It's worth it.

They'll be better off.

You'll be better off.

Everybody will be.

Yeah, the whole mindset change, too, is huge.

I remember the first time when we first were like, okay, we're actually sticking to a budget.

We're in the, I think it was Walmart self-checkout, and we were like a dollar over, and it was for some stupid poster board.

And I had to do the walk of shame all the way back to the back of the store.

Yes.

Can't afford this.

Like, yeah, it's a dollar and I can't have it.

Right, but it's a principle.

It is.

And that's what made that change.

It was just a snapshot.

We had to change a lot of habits of, you know, the immediate gratification and delaying that was huge.

There was a lot of peace with that, too.

I mean, even though we were still in debt, you know, working towards getting out of it, it was amazing.

The peace that came because we actually were reaching

out to you.

Yeah.

And it was just, there's a light at the end of the tunnel finally.

I want to ask more about that because a lot of people will will say, you know, when we're telling people to be gazelle intense and just really go hard and baby step two, you know, the pushback is, well, you know, I got to pick up my coffee and I just, you know, I got to do my run-through Chick-fil-A, whatever.

But what you said about the poster board, it is true.

You know, how you do anything is how you do everything.

So talk to that person who says, Jade, my latte doesn't matter or, you know, just this one thing.

Talk to that person.

Yeah, I mean, you get to choose which discomfort you have, right?

Do you want the short-term discomfort of not having your latte or the the long-term discomfort of being in debt and that stress?

And for us, it was an easy choice when we put it in that perspective, that lens of what would I rather have now or in the future?

And

it makes it real simple when you look at it in a bigger perspective.

I agree.

Yeah, it shuts down the need for it.

Then, I mean, what feels like a need just becomes a want.

You go, I don't have to have it now.

Yeah,

I'm going to live like no one else so that later I can live and give like no one else.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And these kids' whole lives are changed because of you.

Way to go, Hero.

Proud of y'all.

Really cool.

Very well done.

Very, very well done.

What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is?

Yeah, just make a plan and stick to it.

It's just like working out, losing weight.

The answer is really, really simple.

You just got to stick to it.

Just make that choice and whatever that reason why is, make it bigger than the discomfort.

Yeah.

And I think being okay, having to do a little bit of extra, you know, on the side or whatever.

I mean, we had to get real creative over the past couple years.

And there were times we were doing plasma.

we were doing, you know, selling things.

We were, yeah, it was just whatever we could do.

We were trying to find, because every little bit just, again, got us closer to the end.

It's not forever.

It's just a short period of time if you do it right.

And

it's not that once you're done, you're like, oh, that wasn't that bad.

You can handle that.

So who cheered you on?

The whole family.

Yeah.

It's her side of the family, our family that's right over here.

They were cheering us on the whole time.

Yeah, that's great to have.

Yeah, we've got a lot of family that's debt-free.

So

a lot of them are out of debt.

And so they were great because they all knew what it felt like.

And so they were there encouraging us kind of along the way.

So go.

Yeah.

I love that.

It feels good.

Yeah.

They knew what it felt like.

So

that does make a difference.

And it's worth it.

It's worth it.

You know, I know it's hard, but it's worth it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's the kind of cheerleaders you need, ones that are knowledgeable.

Very good stuff.

All right.

And you brought a couple of the four kids, right?

We did, yep.

We left two at home because they're little babies, but we're going to bring them up for the debt-free screen here.

Introduce these fellows to us, their names and ages.

So this is Oliver, our oldest.

He is seven years old, and this is Everett, five.

All right.

And our two little ones are Lucy, who is almost three, and then Asher, who is almost one.

Oh, wow.

Nicely grown family.

Yep.

Very fun.

Beautiful.

Well done, guys.

Proud of you guys.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

You paid a price to win, and you win.

Yep.

Very well done.

And a great example today on the air.

Thank you for being with us.

Thank you.

All right.

It's Zach and McKenna, Oliver and Everett.

$68,000 paid off in two and a half years, making $117,000 to zero to $150,000.

Lots of overtime, baby.

That was the solution, but now they're free.

So count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Ready?

Three, two, one.

We're debt-free.

I love it.

You know,

those little guys don't look unhappy.

They don't look like they've been deprived.

I think they're in good shape, but they didn't see their dad a lot for the last couple of years.

And so we do get a lot of questions about work-life balance.

And the truth is there is no balance in life.

You're going to concentrate what you concentrate on.

Some of you have been concentrating so much on hitting the

submit button after you filled your cart.

on Amazon and you've been concentrating so much on going on vacations that you couldn't afford and buying cars you couldn't afford and living a life you couldn't afford that now now you're going to have to concentrate on something else called work.

And work is what's going to get you out.

My grandmother used to say there's a great place to go when you're broke.

To work.

It works, this work thing.

Look at this guy.

What a stud, man.

Pretty incredible.

Very well done.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Our scripture of the day, 2 Corinthians 5, 17, therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come.

The old has gone, the new is here.

Jordan Peterson says, you should be better than you are, but it's not because you're worse than other people.

It's because you're not everything you should be.

Tracy's in Virginia.

Hi, Tracy.

How are you?

Hello.

How are you?

Thank you for taking my call.

Sure.

What's up?

So I am looking at retiring in about three years.

I currently gross about $130,000.

I'm estimating low because I gross a little more, but I don't like to work with actual high numbers.

So I gross about $130,000.

I have

about a $10,000

debt right now.

$3,000 is a loan that my son is paying off because this is his student loan, and I told him he had to pay it back.

$5,000 is from

appliances I bought.

They're interest-free until next year.

And then $8,000 is actually on a credit card.

I'm looking at whether or not I should, and I have about $12,000 in actual cash cash.

So I'm trying to decide, since I'm close to retirement, is it best for me to

pay off my house?

I owe about $360,000 on it.

And the debt, and that'll be debt-free because the other debts are relatively small, and I can pay them off fairly quickly.

Or if I should look at supplemental income, I have about $45,000 in stocks and mutual funds.

I also have IRA and two whole life policies.

Or if I should

buy another property so that I'll have that as more passive income.

I know I'm talking fast.

I'm trying to be respectful.

Okay, you're fine.

You're fine, honey.

You're doing a good job.

So

real estate is not passive.

Okay.

It's active.

I own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate, and it has to be managed.

There's nothing passive about real estate.

Not even a piece of farmland that you do nothing with except hold the earth together.

It's not even passive.

My neighbor called and one of my trees fell on his yard.

I ended up having to send somebody over there for that.

Not even that's passive and there's nothing on there but dirt.

I can't even get that to be passive.

But if you deal with tenants, it's anything but passive.

If you deal with water heaters, heat and air and roofs, it's anything but passive.

So you're going to be actively involved in real estate and you don't have the money to play in the real estate market.

Okay.

You don't have enough money to fool with it.

You have a good income.

Yeah, you have a good income, but you don't have any money.

So

let me get this straight.

You have $10,000, $3,000 and $8,000.

Is that the three debts?

No, I'm sorry.

Overall, it's about a little more than $10,000.

The $8,000 is credit card.

The $3,000 is $5,000.

Your son is supposed to be paying it.

And then you got the $5,000.

He calls me the bill collector.

I make him pay it every month.

So he is paying that.

And then $3,500 is for appliances.

I needed to replace some appliances in my home.

You said that was $5,000.

Yeah, I thought you said it was $5,000, too.

I'm sorry, that is $5.

five.

I got it written down.

I have $3,000 for my son, $8,000 for credit cards, $5,000 for the

$16,000 clears you?

Yes, but the reason why I said three is because I got my little note under here.

It started off at five.

It's now down to about $3,500.

Got it.

And then you've got $3,000 in cash?

Cash enough out of your mutual funds and your forage.

Cash, I have $30,000.

Yeah, you need to write a check today and pay off your debt.

Okay.

That's step one.

We'll just pay that off.

That's step one.

All right.

How old are you?

56.

And how much is in your IRAs and 401ks?

In my IRA, I have about 300,000?

Yes.

Okay.

Is that in good mutual funds?

No, no,

that's in my 401k.

I'm sorry.

So my 401k is 3,000.

My IRA.

300,000.

300,000, thank you.

Is that in mutual funds?

Well, it's through my job, so I don't know.

No, it's a 401k.

You do know.

You had to select it.

You just don't remember.

Okay, you need to go find out what that's invested in and make sure it's in good growth stock type mutual funds.

We recommend a fourth in growth, a fourth in growth in income, a fourth in aggressive growth, and a fourth in international with good long track records.

If you're doing that, you should be earning north of 12% in the last several years.

Okay?

Okay.

And I do know that they gave us like these boxes now that you mention it, but I don't know what that is.

Yeah, I want you to go back and double-check all that after you listen to this back.

It'll be on the podcast and on YouTube.

You can listen to it back.

Okay.

So I'll give you all the details.

So growth, growth, and income, aggressive growth in international, the fourth in each of those long track records that have over 10% rates of return over the last decade or so.

And you ought to be making well more than that.

So if you're doing that, your 300 without

adding anything to it will double about every seven years.

So you're 56.

At 63, it'll be 600.

At 70, it'll be 1.2 million

if you don't take anything out of it, if it just grows.

I don't take anything out of it.

I know, but I'm telling you, till 70.

Okay.

Tell us about your whole life policy.

I have, well, they're for my, I got them for my kids.

I have two of them, one for each my son and one for my daughter.

I

want to get one.

I just qualified.

What I want you to do is cancel all of them.

They're crap.

Oh, okay.

It's the worst financial product on the planet.

And use that money to build wealth and leave that to your son and daughter.

Okay.

But this is not a good place to build wealth, and dying is not a good way to create an estate.

the math doesn't work out.

You're going to have a better rate of return investing that money in the same mutual funds that Dave was just talking about.

You're going to have a higher rate of compounding interest.

Yeah.

So I do, I do dabble, and I do use that word loosely, dabble in stock and mutual funds.

And I have about $45,000 in that right now.

Yeah, I would tell you to sit down with one of our smart investor pros and let's make sure that you're getting 15% of your income going into retirement, canceling the whole life policies.

You can use some of that money to beef up your retirement.

You're dead free because we told you just now.

Write a check, pay everything off.

You've got a good emergency fund of three to six months of expenses.

You're in good shape there.

So now all we've got to do is work towards putting 15% of your income away and getting your house paid off.

And so if you'll put 15% of your income away and

your current nest egg is invested well, you're going to be in really, really good shape at age 65 and you need to be in a paid-for house.

So if you move into 65 with a million dollars in a paid-for house on top of a paid-for house, you're going to be in great shape.

And that is what you leave your kiddos.

And

that's where you'll be if you do all the stuff we just outlined.

And it's so,

it's clean.

There's, you know what I'm saying?

I'm listening to everything she said and their stocks and whole life.

And should I do real estate?

And interest-free on the appliances.

Oh, gosh.

It's just so much.

Please don't do that stuff.

y'all.

No payments until the year 3039.

And then we're going to backcharge you 38% interest through the whole stinking thing because you didn't send in the check just like we told you to in the form we told you to send it in.

Yeah, it's

guys, it's simple.

Just keep it clean, clean and crisp.

Simple as best.

One thing at a time.

A couple of rules on investing.

As we've studied millionaires, they all use the KISS principle.

Keep it simple, stupid.

They really do.

And they don't put money in things they don't understand.

And they're steady.

And they're not flashy.

And they don't care what you think.

Yeah.

And

these are the attributes of the typical millionaire.

And we've studied 10,000 of them.

It's in the book Baby Steps Millionaires.

The white paper of the research project is in the back of the book.

You can read all the detail.

And you can also read the conclusions we've drawn from the actual study and from 35 years of sitting at this desk helping people become Baby Steps Millionaires.

So she's right on track.

She's going to be just fine.

A few little adjustments, a little bit more confidence as she steps out these things, and not confidence in whole life and not confidence in fooling around with trading stocks and mutual funds.

Let's just get in there and start investing.

Let's just be that tortoise.

Well, that's where the bulk of her money was.

Yeah, and stay away from.

There's no reason for you to do real estate.

You're not in a position to.

You do not have the cash to do it.

Your cash is all in 401ks, and you don't have access to it.

That puts the Sour of the Ramsey show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.