Are You Investing in Tomorrow or Robbing It?

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke, and common sense is weird.

So, we are here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and host host of the runaway hit on Ramsey Network called Front Row Seat.

He's my co-host today.

Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

Joseph is in Orlando.

Hi, Joseph.

How are you?

Hey, I'm doing good.

How about you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Yes, so I'm in the current situation, but before I get into it, I just want to say I'm a big fan.

I've been watching this show for quite a while.

Thank you.

Yes.

So

I am 31.

My wife is 26.

And I read the Total Money Makeover book.

And I want to pretty much get out of the debt.

I have about,

well, we have about $62,000,

$65,000 in debt.

And I'm trying to convince her to start using credit cards,

but

she just doesn't want to.

She keeps saying that

wants to get points, that there's benefits to it.

And I'm trying to convince her that

we need to try to stick to a budget and

to get rid of the debt.

I had a plan to get rid of it in about two and a half years, but we keep

pretty much we're just stuck in maybe step one.

I can't even get like a thousand for the emergency savings.

And we keep running out of money and then having to use the emergency fund.

And How long have you all been married?

We're about three and a half years.

And what's your household income?

Together, it's $115.

Okay.

Well, you did the classic man mistake.

Women seldom make this mistake, but men often make it in this exact conversation.

The man mistake that I have made in my younger years, I don't do it anymore, and the one that that you made was you read something and got some new information that she doesn't have, became inspired,

and then walked into the room and announced what we're going to do

instead of talking about why

we're going to do it.

So let's start again.

Walk into the room and say, honey, I'm sorry.

I goofed up.

I'm really excited about this idea of getting out of debt because I'm really terrified of where we are right now.

We make $115,000.

We owe $65,000 in debt.

We can't even keep $1,000 in our account because we do such a bad job of handling money.

And this is terrifying me.

I need your help to look at that and dream with me about what it would be like to have no debt, to have a plan that we are both in agreement on, on where we're going, and then we will decide how we're going to get there together.

When she says, yes, I believe being debt-free is the shortest path to wealth, now she's caught up to you.

But you're also the only one doing the budget.

You're the only one handling the money, and she's acting like a little girl over here, and daddy's got her on an allowance, and he gave her some credit cards.

Now he's trying to take them back.

I mean,

the credit cards represent unlimited.

I get to do whatever the hell I want to do.

That's what they represent.

And you're trying to take that away from her with no reason because she doesn't, she doesn't,

why would you ever give up that?

I mean, you ought to just run for Congress, you know?

And so

just spend everything in sight, you know, there's no reason.

But if we're going to both be grown-ups and we're both going to look at a future we both want to attain and we both are willing to pay a price to get to that future, then easily we start doing away with credit card usage because it's not going to take you to your future.

And

no millionaire ever in the history of man has ever said, you know, Dave, the way I made all my money was airline miles.

That's the biggest load of bullcrap I ever heard in my life.

But people believe it, but they use it as an excuse to say, I want to get what I want to get when I want to get it.

And you're not going to tell me no, because before you told me I could do whatever I wanted, and now you're trying to take my candy away.

Yeah, I mean, I've had difficult conversations with her before, and I sort of let her know how much we have in debt.

Like, we want, we both want to get out of that, but I can't tell you what I don't.

Well, I know I want to get out of debt, she doesn't want to get out of debt.

And she says she wants to, but

she

want to get on board.

I want to use credit cards and spend money we don't have and blow up the budget is not somebody that wants to get out of debt.

Yeah.

That's not true.

Okay.

I want what I want.

And if we can also get out of debt while I get what I want, then that's okay.

Let's circle back because I've got a thought process for you.

But one question.

What makes you, I know what Dave says, and Dave's right.

She doesn't want it bad enough.

But what makes you tell us that she wants to get out of debt?

What response is she giving you to make you say that?

Well, when we talk about like our future and like even including kids into, you know, to start having kids,

one of the things she says is she wants to get out of debt first before we have time.

Okay, great.

So, all right.

So Dave's right, though, she doesn't want it bad enough to change what she's doing.

So

here's a process that I think will work, but you're going to have to stay with it and you don't do them all at the same time.

But you're gonna have to talk to her, as Dave said, go back to the example Dave gave you.

Hey, babe, I apologize.

I threw this at you too quick.

Let me tell you about how I feel and why I feel this way.

And you're gonna talk about the problem of being broke, the problem of debt, and you gotta get really detailed with her.

Don't try to solve it, but you gotta get her to a point where she begins to feel as bad about the debt as you feel.

At that point, when she really gets it and feels bad about this problem,

then you start talking about, all right, here's the solution.

And then that's the second part.

Solution only comes after someone agrees with you on the problem.

Then the last piece is, here's the reason for the solution.

Able for you to come home and not work outside the home, to have kids, for us to be millionaires, you know, and things like that.

So that's the process.

You got to bring her along.

And I just think you jumped it too quickly.

Yeah, you need a dream in HD, high-definition dreams, detailed dreams.

And then immediately the human brain starts saying, if that's my desired future, what must be true for me to get there?

And one of those things is very simple.

Quit spending money you don't have using credit cards.

Hello.

That's obvious then.

Okay.

But behavior is a language.

Her behavior says she's not willing to do that right now.

Her behavior by defending the defenseless, stupid credit card is,

that's the behavior that says, I'm not on board.

She can say with her mouth she's on board, but her actions scream that she's not.

And so the two of you need to have a dream that is so big and so clear and so detailed that you're willing to sacrifice to get to that dream and you're willing to pay a price to get to that dream.

And that's living on a detailed written budget.

That's not borrowing money.

That's not using credit cards.

That's changing the way you handle and talk about money in your house.

It's all of those things, Joseph.

Thank you, sir.

Hold on, folks.

Don't panic.

Buying a home in today's market doesn't have to be complicated, but it does take more than hope and a quick internet search.

To get the right home, one that will be a blessing and not a burden, you need a trusted mortgage partner who will listen and serve you, not push more debt.

You need the professionals at Church Hill Mortgage.

I've personally recommended Churchill for over 30 years, and they're the only mortgage company that's Ramsey trusted.

Churchill stands out because they operate the Ramsey way with transparency, integrity, and a commitment to doing what's right for the customer, not what's profitable for themselves.

Churchill aligns with Ramsey's values by focusing on education, responsible mortgage lending, and helping people make smart, long-term decisions that enable them to build lasting wealth.

Go to churchillmortgage.com today to begin a better mortgage experience.

ChurchillMortgage.com.

This is a paid advertisement.

NMLS ID 1591, NMLS ConsumerAccess.org, Equal Housing Lender.

Brooke is in West Virginia.

Hi, Brooke.

How are you?

Hi, I'm doing okay.

How are you guys doing?

Better than we deserve.

What's up in your world?

Well, it's been kind of crazy recently.

We sold our house just a month ago, and we got about $65,000 out.

And we are just trying to decide if it's better to put

most of all

or just or none towards a new

mortgage in this market.

That's just crazy.

Or if it's better to go towards paying off school loans and the car.

half of my husband's school loans are like uh significantly higher than the other half.

He's got a lot of money.

You're breaking up something fierce.

Can you get to where your phone actually works?

Can you hear me right now?

Yes, ma'am.

The uh so how much debt do you have?

Um seventy-five thousand in school loans and then about fourteen in car.

Okay.

And you have sixty-five K in your pocket from the sale of the house?

Yes.

You have any other money saved?

Um, we have maybe like $1,000 in cash just for like an emergency or something.

But my husband is also getting ready to start a new job where over the next year, he'll be able to make up to about $20,000 more than he's currently making.

That's wonderful.

Yes.

We're very relieved about that transition.

So, what will your household income be at that point?

Well, we're basing our budget off of our last household income.

No, ma'am.

I'm asking what your household income will be at that point.

Oh, sorry.

I was thinking budget.

Household income at that point would probably be anywhere between $65,000 and $70,000 a year.

We're a single income family.

Okay, so he was making $50,000.

Now he's going to be making $70,000.

Yes, but it goes over time.

So he's actually going to be still making $50,000 for a bit, and then like every few months, it's going to go up with training.

Oh, I see.

And how long before he gets to 70?

It would be a year.

Yeah, so it wouldn't be.

And why did you sell the house?

Well, we were trying to move to be closer to family.

There were some things that just weren't working for where we lived.

He took a job near family, this new job?

Well, yes.

I mean, he was already working at the

place where he's working now is going to be at the same place where he was working before.

It's a hospital.

So he didn't have to like change.

Okay, so how far away were you before and how far what is closer?

Are you were you a long way from the hospital before?

No, it was about 20 minutes, but we were just we were in the opposite direction of where everything is.

Things are kind of more semi-rural around here.

And so we wanted to we have young kids.

We wanted to be able to be like around more family.

How far away was your family?

They were not as far as

like they were probably 10 to 20 minutes in the opposite direction.

So to see anybody, it was 30 to 45 minutes maybe.

I'm so confused.

Okay.

What was the plan?

Before this call started

before you called me, what were you going to do?

We were thinking about putting 20%

down on a mortgage, pay off the car, and put the rest towards school loan.

Okay, and buy a house for how much money

we were looking, uh, we don't want to go up to 150, we were actually hoping to go as low as possible.

What did your other house sell for?

It sold for $129.

Okay, all right, so you're moving up in-house and you're moving while you're in debt, and that was your plan.

Yes, okay,

all right,

uh,

Yeah, I mean, 20% down and pay off the car, put some towards the student loan, make the move happen.

And, yeah, I guess you accomplish all your goals that way.

With the $20,000 extra, then we tear into the student loan and finish it off, right?

Sorry, $20,000 extra.

Yeah, you have a $20,000 extra income by the end of the year.

Oh, yes.

Okay.

Yeah, let's use that and anything else we can squeeze out of the budget and him working extra.

How many kids have you got?

Two.

Okay.

And you working extra.

Are you working from home?

So everybody starts working.

Everybody starts making money and we clean up this freaking mess.

Otherwise, you don't move up in-house.

You go rent something cheap and you clean up this freaking mess.

One of the two.

Okay.

But you need to clean up the freaking mess.

Okay.

Yeah, period.

If you put 20% down, that's not a bad plan.

What you propose is not a bad plan.

I don't like the idea that, hey, I'm going to move up in-house and that's going to get me out of debt.

That doesn't get you out of debt.

That puts you in more debt.

Okay, so, but it's not a huge amount.

It's not going to keep you from

winning overall.

But I think both of you commit to working as many hours as possible, creating as much income as you can create in the following 12 months after you buy this house.

And the price we're going to pay pay for this move is we're going to commit to cleaning up this mess fast.

Okay.

Fast.

Okay.

And that's the trade-off.

Okay.

All right, we get a new house, but

we're not buying new furniture, and we're not going to renovate the house, and we're not going to be doing a bunch of work to the house.

We're going to be getting out of debt.

This student loan's been around so long you think it's a pet and it needs to go away.

Yeah, the only thing I'm looking at here is

we've coached her well, but I want people to make sure that they're always paying attention to the cost of your education versus the income possibilities that are clearly, clearly tied to this degree.

Here's an example where you got a guy who's been making 50K.

He's got a chance now to move up, but $75,000 student loan to get into a $50,000 job.

And again, I don't know all the details,

but I just think we've got to start looking at this stuff.

And that's what kind of gave me pause.

I feel bad, but this is the message.

And so I'm kind of, this is more of a preemptive for a large audience.

Be smart about what you think you should be spending in return for what you think you're getting.

Education,

especially when you're taking out student loans, which we tell you not to do,

is not a luxury.

It is an investment.

And an investment should have a return on investment.

So if you spend $250,000 getting a master's degree in sociology and you take a job with the state as a social worker making $38,000, that's the definition of stupid.

That's just dumb.

You can make $38,000 working at Target, stocking shelves, and you don't have to have a master's degree and $250,000 in debt to do it.

So just don't make that trade.

That's Ken's point.

It's a bad trade.

Yeah, just think that.

Study something.

If you're going to spend the money to go to college, study something that's going to give you a a return on investment.

Get a degree,

develop a skill, develop a knowledge base in a career field that's going to cause you to make a lot of money because you're spending a lot of money to get this knowledge base.

The degree doesn't,

your degree is worthless, but the knowledge base has a value.

You know, actually having a master's in accounting is absolutely zero value.

But knowing how to do accounting at the master's level so that you can get a CPA, well, that has a value, a marketplace value.

The actual knowledge base has value.

I also want to call back to something you said here

because Brooke's still listening here.

The renting option, I thought, was a really good call out because

they're in an area where housing is not very expensive, although it's relative to the incomes there.

And in this situation, renting for a bit may not be a bad idea to clean up this debt.

And he gets the raise.

So I like that you brought that up as a possibility.

If you you went and rented something cheap for two years and threw the whole 65 at this,

it doesn't make me mad.

That's where I was living.

And clean it all up.

That's the kind of thing a lot of people do.

The other one is not, I think that's wiser, to Ken's point.

The other one's not in the stupid column.

It's just not as smart as that is.

But it's a double move, which I kind of think you've already moved again anyway.

I can't figure out.

I don't ask her where she's living, but they already sold the house.

They've already got the 65.

So where are you living, Praytal?

I got a feeling mama's basement, but we'll see.

Okay, so we'll just figure it out from there.

But either way, I didn't ask, so I don't know.

Listen up, people.

If your phone bill is more than 25 bucks a month, you're basically donating to keep your mobile carriers' private jets stocked with caviar.

But Boost Mobile isn't playing that game.

Unlimited talk, text, and data for just $25 a month.

No contracts.

No, we're raising your rate because we feel like it emails.

Just a simple low bill every month.

And because they actually believe in what they're selling, there's a 30-day money-back guarantee.

So if you don't love it, get your money back for zero risk.

Go to boostmobile.com slash Ramsey to make the switch today.

That's boostmobile.com/slash Ramsey.

Restrictions apply.

See boostmobile.com/slash Ramsey for details.

Cassandra is with us in Ohio.

Hi, Cassandra.

How are you?

Hi, I'm doing okay, I guess.

Better than we deserve.

How can we help you, ma'am?

Yes.

So my husband was a CDL driver for a company

and was fired at his workplace for workplace gossip and petty reasons.

He's currently working three jobs, and at a time where there should be so many jobs for CDLA drivers, and there isn't, we've been struggling, and we're wondering how we can put our money to good use.

How long ago was he fired?

He was fired August 28th.

Oh, okay.

A couple weeks back.

All right.

Yep.

All right.

Well, I disagree.

There's lots of CDL drivers.

positions out there.

They're everywhere.

They are dying for CDL help out there.

He just hasn't found it.

Right.

Yeah.

We had gotten contact with a few different

CDL places, a whole bunch of different transportation services, and they said that they couldn't hire him because

he was fired, so they can't hire him unless he's had a job for a year afterwards.

That's not true.

He wasn't fired for any kind of driving violation, is what you told me.

Nope.

He was fired because he's running his mouth.

Right.

Yeah.

Okay.

Has he learned his lesson on that, by the way?

He was, he worked in a private business with cultural differences, and the workplace gossip wasn't his fault.

He didn't have anything to say on it.

He wasn't even talking about it.

He had a few people that did not like him for him having basically a hard to work with work ethic.

You're a sweet wife.

I don't think you got the real story and you believed it.

But anyway, I'm going to ask him if he's on the phone.

Did he learn his lesson or not?

But he shouldn't keep you from getting a driving job if you're running your mouth.

Right.

He did not hit something.

He did not wreck something.

He did not hurt someone.

He did not get convicted of a DUI.

All of those things are things that keep you from, disqualify you from using your CDL.

correct Coleman yeah I think here this is where he can't do the traditional applying for jobs thing because of this type of situation when people don't have the whole story or they're worried or they're trying to protect themselves there's always a filtering whether it's a human filter or AI so in this case what he has to do is this is him working harder than he's ever worked before to make a personal connection with people so they know the story.

And he's got to own it, by the way.

Like he's got to own it.

There is no spin because people will react like Dave reacted.

And I was feeling the same thing.

I don't want to hear some hard-to-prove story.

I want somebody to go, here's what happened.

Here's what I learned.

And, you know, you eat the humble pie right in front of people.

And, but what they really need is they need somebody they can rely on to get the truck from point A to point B.

So this is where he's making every connection that he's ever had.

He is working it.

It's not just applying online.

He is actually sitting down with people because I'm telling you: if I were to draw a circle around your house, 30 minutes each way, just total circumference, I'm telling you, there are people who need somebody like your husband that they can depend on to get trucked from point A to point B.

But he's got to find it.

It's like a scavenger hunt on steroids, talking to real people.

That's how you get out of this.

Now,

tell us what he was making and tell us what he's making with these three three jobs.

So he was making $27 an hour with a lot of overtime.

And that would come to, I'm guessing, anywhere between $5,000 to $5,500 a month, sometimes less.

And with these three jobs, he's working one job at a remodeling for $15 an hour.

And another job for hauling for Amish family for hauling produce and that pays about $7 a pallet, which in a week he can get about $500 from that.

And then for his other job, he works temporarily until winter time comes for a person who does CDL hauling for a

like large equipment, and that pays $25 an hour.

And he only gets those jobs maybe a few hours a day.

Okay, so it's only been a couple of weeks.

So he's making, making, what, roughly half of what he was making before?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

So that's not why.

There's two answers to the question.

One is do all the stuff Ken's talking about and go get the new job.

Okay.

And that means hanging out at a truck stop and walking up to guys at the truck stop and going, hey, you know anybody's hiring?

I got a CDL looking for work.

And then you go, hey, George.

You don't have to tell him you met George 10 minutes ago.

George told me you were hiring over here.

Okay.

Henry told me you were hiring over here.

And you go knock on the door and you go get the job.

That's what Ken's talking about.

The second part is your original question is you have to prioritize your budget.

And we take care of necessities.

When we were in the seventh grade, they used to teach a class called civics and they would teach you what are necessities.

Food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities.

So we have to put food on the table first.

And that's not going out to eat.

You don't need to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there.

You're broke.

Okay.

So we're buying groceries.

That's it.

That's all.

Food.

And you're cooking from scratch.

It's healthier and it's cheaper.

Okay.

Clothing.

You're probably okay.

You probably got enough clothes in the closet.

The kids probably got enough clothes in the closet to make it a few months.

You're probably okay.

And if somebody's got their toe sticking out of one of the shoes, buy some shoes.

But really, most people are okay on clothes.

Most people have way okay on clothes.

Okay.

The third thing is you pay the rent or the house payment.

So food and house payment.

Minor purchases of clothing.

Gasoline in the car, and car payment if there's a car payment.

You got enough coming in to do that.

Right.

And then some of the other stuff is probably not going to get done right now.

But you eat, you have a place to live, you keep the lights and water on, keep your utilities going, and you keep gas in the car, and he starts looking for a better position.

But I would not let the words come out of my mouth again.

I would not speak this lie over your

that no one's hiring CDL drivers in your area who have been fired for a non-driving violation.

That is not a true statement, and you should never say that again.

You should say we haven't found the person yet who is hiring a CDL driver who has been fired for gossip, but they are around here somewhere.

We just haven't found them yet.

And that is a true statement.

And it's hard to find them.

That's a true statement.

I'm okay with that.

And we're out here scratching and clawing.

That's a true statement.

And he's not lazy.

He went and got three jobs.

Way to go, dude.

What a good guy.

Okay.

But I would never say in the interview ever again, cultural differences.

And he worked hard and they didn't.

So they hated him and fired him.

I would not say stuff like that.

That's not very appealing to a potential employer.

Say, listen, I was accused of gossip.

I may have said something I shouldn't have said.

I don't know.

It's not who I I am.

I'm a hardworking guy.

Let's go drive some truck.

And I would just leave it at that, man.

That's right.

Just own it a little bit and move on.

But I wouldn't try to throw it back on them that they cultural difference.

Yeah, yeah, then they're trying to figure out, well, what cultural differences have you got with me?

You know, like hard work and what's your cultural difference?

You'd be better off going, I worked for or worked with a couple buttholes and I was a bigger butthole, apparently.

People buy that.

They go, okay.

I've been in that situation, right?

That could be true, too.

They can resonate and go, all right, you had a, you let it get to you.

Yeah, we had, we had a, uh, we had a little contest and I lost.

Yeah.

And so, you know, it's, that, that, that's a real thing.

Okay.

I can buy that as a potential employer.

Yeah.

But the great news is CDL is in great demand.

Yeah.

The great news is that you don't have a driving violation that caused this.

It's not in great demand.

Very hard to get a job if you tore something up or hurt somebody.

Very hard.

By the way, heavy equipment.

A lot of times, CDL people can get those jobs because, again, they've done through so much qualifying.

So I'd be looking, driving around everywhere where you see this stuff.

You'd be surprised.

But when you're delivering some of that heavy equipment,

ask if they need somebody to drive it.

That's right.

Yeah.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens.

One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time.

A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

Yeah, that's right.

You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage.

No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance.

Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them.

Life insurance steps in when you die.

Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it.

If it's discounted there at a better price, take it.

But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

And that's why Xander is our go-to.

They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price, no pressure, no upselling.

I've trusted Jeff Zander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family.

So don't wait.

It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference.

Go to xander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

The all-new Every Dollar is coming.

It's more than just a budgeting app now.

It's a financial game changer.

We're releasing a ton of advanced features to help you make the progress with your money that you dreamed of.

If you've never tried, or even if you have tried Every Dollar, you definitely want to try it.

This is a pretty powerful thing we're doing here.

Yeah, like the most important thing we've ever done other than launch the thing.

People are finding thousands of dollars of margin in just 15 minutes.

Watch the premiere of the all-new Every Dollar, September 25th, to see real success stories and how you can be next.

Turn on your YouTube notifications to get notified when the premiere drops, and you'll be able to see what's happening with this.

It's pretty stinking incredible.

Do not miss this.

John's in Raleigh.

Hi, John.

How are you?

I had a tail of be wagging, Dave.

How are you?

I'd be great.

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So we are facing a question on what to do with our home.

So for background, we bought this house in May of 2024.

And at the time, our take-home was about $10,000 a month.

And our monthly payment was between 25% and 30%, as y'all would suggest.

But some things have changed in our life since then.

Primarily, we have a new baby, so she's four months old.

And my wife has gone to part-time instead of full-time.

So our take-home pay has gone from the $10,000 down to about $7,000.

This makes our

monthly payment be around 40% of our take-home.

And we've also had a few other

new circumstances, such as our neighbors have completely gone off the rails, it seems.

And

we're really considering moving both to lower our monthly payment as well as to maybe get into a slightly better situation.

We have identified three options that we would like to do.

So, the first being to stay where we are and refinance when rates drop and try and

try and just lower that monthly payment.

maybe even recasting our mortgage because we have a fairly significant amount of cash liquid right now that we could put a significant down payment on there to lower the monthly payment or to move to a smaller situation where we'll have

around that 25%.

Okay, you make seven.

How long before you make ten?

Um

probably the next

four to five years, three to four, maybe.

Okay.

What did your wife do for a living?

So she is in

data analysis.

She works for an agrochemical company, and so she does that from home, which has been very convenient with the baby.

Okay.

But she's gone to part-time hours.

She has, and she's expressed that she would like to just be a full-time stay-at-home mom because it's just been wonderful having the baby and something we really enjoy.

And if we could make that work financially, that would be nice.

How much cash do you have?

About $150,000 liquid.

What do do you owe on a house?

$360,000.

Where'd you get the $150,000?

So a little bit.

We've been very frugal over the course of our life, but I want to...

Why didn't you put it down on the house in the first place?

I think we were a little scared.

We were very conservative.

And now you figured out what to be scared of is the payment, not the cash.

Yes.

Yes, absolutely.

What's your interest rate?

7.375, which is not great.

Yeah, you can get a 5.7 now.

That's a point and a half shift.

Yeah, I'd refinance it and put the 150 on it and just stay there.

Unless the neighbors are so crazy that you have to move.

Maybe hold a little cash back to build a fence.

I don't know.

True.

True, yeah.

I mean, there's been multiple arrests and large evergreen trees.

I don't know.

I mean, yes,

they grow fast.

I mean, is there any safety issues for you?

Do you fear for your family's safety because of all this nonsense?

There have been times, I mean, explosions that have shaken our house.

Are they running a crack house over there?

Yes.

For real?

Yeah, for real.

What price is your house?

It was $500,000 and

not an issue when we bought it.

I'm not speaking for Dave.

This is not an official show response.

My response is: if I knew that, what you're telling me, I'd be out.

I'm not going to keep my family there.

It takes one crazy night.

The whole thing could explode.

Yeah.

For real.

There's a little bit of a change.

There's a new owner.

Somebody bought it, but they're allowing the guy that continued to live there to continue as a living estate.

Well, then it's still a problem.

On the precipice of death, but yes.

He's on the precipice of death and he's running a crack house?

What is this?

Breaking bad?

It could be a half-hour show right here.

Yeah, I'm just, I'm hearing this.

This is amazing.

Well, if you think your family's in danger, it's a no-brainer.

Mike drop.

I'm out of there.

Okay.

If you think you can outlive the guy and outlast him and survive, and he's either going to blow himself up or die or whatever's happening to him, good lord.

And you want to stay there, then recast the mortgage.

But I wouldn't recast the mortgage and then move two months later.

Yeah, absolutely.

That's throwing good money after bad.

If you recast the mortgage, you're staying.

And can we recast the mortgage and get the lower interest rate?

No, you just have to refinance.

It's not a recast.

You'll refinance.

You'll reset the mortgage.

You refinance it on a new 15-year, start again with $150 more down, and then suddenly you can afford the payment.

Yeah, for sure.

That's if you want to stay there.

If you don't want to stay there, that's okay.

And yeah, there's nothing wrong with either option.

Moving down,

she does not like the house enough to be willing to work a few hours a day to keep it.

She doesn't like it that much.

Yeah, I forgot to ask how she feels about the nuts next door.

I'm telling you right now, Stacey would have already made that decision for me.

You'd be done, huh?

Well, yeah, it's just, why play with fire?

If it's as bad as he says, and I believe him,

I just don't get it why you would leave your family there.

Yeah,

if you think you're in in danger, you're out of there that instant.

I mean, I don't know how

it sounds very bizarre.

Yeah, yeah.

But if you're in danger, you should leave.

No question.

All other parts of the conversation aside, very simple.

If you're in danger, and crack houses do explode.

The whole thing can blow up.

I mean, it's very explosive.

If I have a wife at home with a newborn baby and that kind of stuff is going on, you just never know when it spills over beyond their.

If I have any hope that the guy's going to be be gone in a short period of time, that's different.

But short being a month or two, I can deal with it for a month or two.

But if I think he's going to have to deal with this for three years, no.

I'm out of there.

I agree.

I agree with you.

I'm not arguing with that.

Very interesting.

Wow.

I mean, what I would put up with things I didn't have on my bingo card this morning.

There's that rule.

What I would put up with is very different than what Stacey would put up with.

And that's the issue.

Happy wife, happy life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Safe wife, happy life.

Yeah.

There's that too.

That one too.

Yeah.

I just, I'm afraid my wife would shoot back.

No, here's what Sharon would do.

Sharon would walk over there and knock on the door and have a word with the young man.

And not and not in a mean, because she's not a mean person.

She's a straight shooter, but she's not mean.

But I see her just kind of wagging her finger.

Come on, man.

You're not making good life choices.

Steel Magnolia here.

Weezy is snocking on your door next door, right?

Jesus, yeah.

And he probably listened to her.

Yeah, he's probably scared to death if he knows what's good for him.

That's right.

Little East Tennessee fable.

She tells a story.

You know, about the time when a guy died doing this.

It's like, yeah, we used to have neighbors that did stuff like this, and nobody knows where he is now.

Now he goes by one leg, Larry, you know?

Now you know why.

Can't find the boy.

We don't know what happened to him.

It's the strangest thing.

People have a way of dealing with those things in the holler.

Breaking bad

people next door.

The guy's dying.

He sells the house.

He's got a life estate.

Wow.

And he's doing making crack next door.

Breaking bad.

I didn't see that one today.

I didn't see that one coming.

I was not on my bingo card this morning.

I thought he was joking until he wasn't.

No, he wasn't joking.

No.

He said neighbors off the rails, but we didn't know which rails, yeah.

Right.

Wow.

Bless your heart, man.

The more we laugh about this, the more it's not funny.

I'd move.

I would just move.

Yikes.

Yeah, I'd move.

And just accomplish several birds with one stone.

Yeah.

For way too long, I struggled with sleep and woke up groggy after tossing and turning all night.

But now, I look forward to bedtime and I wake up bright-eyed and bushy-tailed thanks to Casper, a company that's been perfecting better sleep for over a decade using durable, high-quality materials that actually last.

My whole family now sleeps on Casper mattresses.

Yes, even the dogs have their own Casper dog bed to no one's surprise.

And it's not just one man's opinion.

Casper customers keep their mattresses for years, and four out of five customers recommend them to friends.

And with free delivery and a hundred-night trial, Casper is no gimmicks.

A mattress you can trust backed by quality that lasts.

So go to casper.com/slash Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey to receive 25% off all mattresses and 10% off everything else with code Ramsey.

That's casper.com/slash Ramsey.

Exclusions apply.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today.

Shay is in Idaho.

Hi, Shay, how are you?

Hi there.

I'm glad to be speaking with you, Dave and Ken.

I'm very grateful for your ministry.

Well, thank you.

How can we help?

Yeah, my question is around the enjoyment side of money.

My husband and I both struggle with that and specifically around planning and booking vacations.

When that time comes around, I just start to feel so much like anxiety and like shame

about spending so much money on something.

It's just hard for us.

And so I was wondering if you had any tips.

Well, number one, you have to practice because you've not developed that muscle.

Your frugal muscle is overdeveloped, and that's how you got here, thank goodness.

But

you've not flexed your enjoyment muscle very much while you were flexing your frugal muscle, agreed.

Probably, yeah.

So the more you do it, the better you get at it.

I speak from experience.

I mean,

I had a hard time buying a decent car, you know, and now I don't have any trouble at all.

That has been our struggle as well.

The second thing is

I look at ratios

and the ratios are what percentage of our world

are we actually spending

and how does it compare to our generosity.

So we look over here and we say our generosity equals X

and this dinky butt little trip we're doing is a small, small, small percentage of what we make and what we give.

Okay.

And so my heavenly father, who's crazy about me, says if we being evil know how to give our children good things, how much more so our Father in heaven wants us to have good things, in other words.

And so,

you know, God's not mad if I enjoy some of the blessings that he gave me while I'm being generous and while the amount of money feels like a lot because it's compared weirdly emotionally to the old days.

But as a percentage of my world today, it's a very small amount.

And that's, you know, the ratio thing, the generosity thing, and the acknowledgement.

So another example of that is, okay, around Ramsey, we have 1,100 team members.

We're in 650,000 square feet.

We spend more.

we furnish coffee.

We have coffee, these grinding coffee machines on every floor, right?

They make fresh brewed ground coffee for everybody, right?

And they don't pay for it.

It's free to all the team members.

We spend more on coffee than I made in a year

most of my life.

That still freaks me out, you know?

It's still a problem, but it's just a matter of scale and ratio.

But it's a very small percentage of what Ramsey, the organization, has coming in in revenues.

So obviously we're not being irresponsible.

We're not going to have to shut down because of our coffee.

It's not even close.

And that's the case I'm guessing.

What's your all's net worth, Shay?

Over a million.

And what is your household income?

My husband makes $120 million, and I make around $50.

So $170 with a million.

And what are you talking about spending on a trip?

They just get more expensive every year.

What are you talking about spending on a trip?

Like

12 to 15.

Yeah.

Well, it's absurdly small percentage of your world.

Is that you, hubs, the kids?

While we were talking about this, the million dollars made you 12.

Oh, that's true.

Who's going on the trip?

All six of us.

Right.

How old are the kids?

Oh, sorry.

They're six, eight, ten, and eleven.

Okay, as a guy

who has one in college and another one graduating high school, I'm going to give you two words that I think you need to process the next time you start feeling this shame about spending money because you've already proven to be frugal.

So here's what I want you to think of.

Return versus regret.

What's the return on that investment of the 12 to 15,000 with those six kids 10 years, 20 years, 30 years from now?

What's the return on those memories and all of the things, all right?

Mindfulness.

Verse 10

Versus the regret

if you don't take those kinds of trips with those six and then they get out.

And I think return versus regret.

You've already proven you're frugal.

So Dave and I aren't here worried about you overspending, but you've got to play those words out.

What's the return on this trip?

And then what would the regret be if we didn't do things like this and had all this money?

Yeah.

But very few memories and experiences.

The return versus the regret does not work work if you're borrowing the money to do it, boys and girls out there in radio land.

Hello.

Good point.

So this lady's a millionaire making $170, and she's going to write a check for this.

That's right.

Don't use the same argument.

Oh, I put $12,000 on my credit card because Keg Coleman said I would regret it if I didn't go on this vacation.

No, you'd be regretting being stupid if you didn't.

Thank you for clarifying.

That is within the context of you have cash.

Yeah, you have the money.

It's a small percentage of your world.

And I suspect your generosity is larger than your trip.

I suspect most people who get where you are, their generosity is there.

So, hey, you're doing a good job.

Enjoy the ride.

So, folks,

this is where this falls under the

reason I have to stop and clarify that is

live like no one else, so that.

That's correct.

And she's at the so that.

Later, you can live and give

like no one else.

But the truth is, what I spend or what someone who has accumulated some wealth is a small percentage of our wealth is spent on consumption.

Most of it is spent on generosity and reinvestment.

The vast majority of the money that I touch and that God has blessed me to manage for him is either reinvested for future generations

or it is invested in other ways called generosity

back into the community,

in some community somewhere, and some dollar amount.

And

those are the two things that make up the vast majority, the highest percentage by far of our income or of our net worth is invested in those two things.

Our consumption, though, is still

ridiculously larger than it was when we were not making any money and didn't have any money.

So it still is emotional.

It still feels weird.

And, you know, sometimes even friends or dysfunctional family will say stupid things like, you're so lucky.

Well, that's a dumb butt thing to say.

Luck had nothing to do with it.

Yep.

Don't say that around Dave.

Luck comes in dressed with calluses and overalls, getting ready to do some work.

That's where luck comes in.

I know where luck comes from.

It's a sweat.

That's where luck comes from.

I got your luck.

Luck's when you win the raffle.

Yeah.

Luck's when you were smoking crack in the parking lot and bought a lottery ticket and hit it.

That's luck.

Oh, there we go.

Okay.

But that's luck.

But this is not luck.

This is work and God's blessings.

God just deciding in his infinite grace that he was going to touch us with the tip of his finger and bless the things that we were working on and protect us and allow us to be sitting here.

So, but don't call it luck.

It's insulting to God and it's insulting to my calluses.

If you've listened to me for more than five minutes, you know that being normal with your money is not a good thing because normal is broke.

And I want you to be weird.

That's why I love what we're doing with Fairwinds Credit Union.

Our friends at Fairwinds just launched a brand new Ramsey debit card and it says, debt is normal, be weird, right on the front.

I love that.

Because every time you swipe it, you're choosing to live differently with no credit card payments and no debt.

You see, Fairwinds has been helping people like you ditch debt faster and build wealth for years.

They're not trying to shove credit cards or auto loans in your face like the big banks do.

And they've worked with us to create the Smart Bundle for Ramsey fans.

It includes a no-fee checking account, a high-yield savings account to supercharge your emergency fund, and now the Ramsey debit card to help you stay focused on the baby steps.

We're excited for you to try it.

So check them out today at fairwinds.org slash Ramsey.

That's fairwinds.org slash Ramsey.

Insured by the NCUA

Alan is in New York.

Hi, Alan.

How are you?

Very good.

And yourself?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Well, my wife and I,

we're both semi-retired.

I retired a while eight years ago, and then I work part-time for the company I retired from as a consultant.

And my wife works a couple of days a week.

We

are getting ready to sell our house.

It's too big for us, downsized, that type of thing.

We have a place in Florida that we're going to go to.

But in the meantime, our children are grown and they're all over the world.

And

we have one in Colorado who, a while back, they

asked us, you know, hey, it would be great if you guys would come out here and stay with us for a while and do things and blah, blah, blah.

And we said, sure, that'd be great.

And they didn't have a house, so they were looking for one.

We entered into an agreement that we would give them money for a down payment.

Some, they had half, we had some.

And

the agreement kind of fell apart here.

Now

there's some animosity a little bit, and they want to pay us back.

We sent the money, which was one hundred seventeen thousand dollars as a gift.

We did the gifting

paperwork.

They bought their house, and now they went out and they said they want to pay us back.

And I'm just concerned about about

one thing is taxes.

And

we haven't kind of really gotten into the meat of it yet.

I'm concerned about where they're going to get the money from.

And I think they'd take it out of their retirement accounts, which I don't want them to do.

And I'm just looking for some advice, what your thoughts are.

So you're partners in the house?

It was not a gift.

No.

No.

We're not partners in the house.

What's the agreement you're referring to?

Well,

they bought a house with a finished basement with,

you know, two bedrooms, bathroom down there, family room, different things.

You know, and space for us where we could come for two, three months out of the year.

Oh, so the agreement was you could live in the basement three months a year?

Yeah.

And now they don't want you to because they're mad.

What do they get mad about?

No, what happened was they

decided

we told them right up front, we said, listen, we need our own space.

There'll be times when we'll get on each other's nerves.

We know we don't need to be together 24-7.

We'd like a place to cook some meals so we don't have to all eat together all the time.

And

we agreed to that.

Then they bought a place and they said, well, it's not as big as we'd hoped, so we're going to have to, you know, share that space and that's not going to work.

And some of them,

it just fell apart.

And so now they're.

What's the animosity?

The animosity is,

well, it's really just that

we said, well, no, the agreement was this.

And they said, well, no, we told you that changed.

And we said, no, you didn't.

And so it grew from there.

And they said, well, we don't know.

So what is your net worth?

Well,

we have no debt.

What's your net worth?

I would say almost 3 million.

Uh we have absolutely no debt.

We have IRAs.

I have an IRA with 1.5, another one with 400.

Yeah.

And

I'll tell you what I would do.

I'll tell you what I would do.

I would call them up and say, I'm really sorry I entered into a really stupid idea.

The whole thing we started doing was a bad idea because it really was a bad idea.

Your agreement was really a bad idea.

And I would just tell them that.

It was a bad idea.

And you know what?

We're just going to forgive the debt, and you don't have to let us stay there.

We won't ever stay there.

We'll stay in a hotel when we come visit, or we'll get a condo when we come visit.

We've got plenty of money.

The money doesn't matter.

We don't need a place to stay.

You don't need to live in somebody's basement when you have $3 million.

Yeah.

Bad idea.

Yeah, we know now.

So just let them off the hook, dude.

Yeah, it's a screwed up mess.

Yeah, it sounds to me like they're paying you back out of spite because of the way that everything went down.

Well, they didn't like you that you argued with them about where the kitchen was.

I think you got to be the parents here.

Right.

And I know your feelings are hurt, and I'm not.

This is not about Dave and I taking a position.

No, hold on, but you got to hear this.

Yeah, I am taking a position.

Well, I'm saying a who's right and who's wrong in their argument.

Oh, you are?

Yeah.

This is a dumb idea.

This is a good idea.

This is a dumb idea.

It needs to be

something big.

I just, it's out of $3 million, $117,000, forget it.

Just walk away.

It was a dumb dumb idea.

Yeah, be the parent is what I'm getting at here.

And just take the high road and let them off the hook and solve this thing.

You know what, I'm sorry.

I didn't think about how screwed up this was going to be.

It's only $100,000.

Screw it.

You can have it.

I'll just get an apartment.

I'll get a condo when I come to Colorado.

Or I won't.

Don't worry about it.

It's okay.

Forget it.

I shouldn't have you because you should not have asked for this to be the deal.

It's a bad idea.

Did I mention that?

You did, clearly.

I I thought you covered it from every angle.

What is it you were going to add before I so rudely interrupted you?

I did.

That he needs to take the high road here.

Okay.

And my point was saying who did what and all that is irrelevant.

You, as the parents, realize you did a dumb thing and put them in a tough position because when they change their mind, you got your feelings hurt.

And I think you got to go, you know what?

Let's just let this thing go away and be the bigger person here so that Christmas and Thanksgiving isn't awkward.

My gosh.

I just think I'm looking at how, and I'll brag on my in-laws for a second.

They have, for years and years and years, Stacey and I have been married 27 years.

They have always taken a position where they never, ever wanted us to feel pressure about anything.

And I just really admire that.

And I didn't plan to say that, but I'm telling you as an experience, that's how we want to be.

You mean you're going to their house for Christmas?

You mean you're going to their house for Thanksgiving?

That didn't come up, huh?

Okay.

That's right.

No, because they've always said you guys do.

Can't believe you're going up there again.

I'm not going to be your family.

That's right.

Right.

Yeah, and they didn't keep score either.

I'm telling you, it's a thing.

And so, yeah, Sharon and I, we made a decision early on.

When in doubt, go over there.

Right.

Yeah.

Go to the other one.

When in doubt, it's okay.

It's okay.

We're going to see you.

Yeah, that's exactly.

It's going to work out.

Yeah.

But this is only $100,000, Alan.

And really, you guys, you cheaped out.

when you thought you were getting a place to stay for three months a year for a hundred grand and

you shouldn't have done that.

It was a bad idea.

And

you put a pressure on something that shouldn't have been there.

And good news is you got plenty of net worth.

If it was a big percentage of your world, we might have to discuss how they can pay you back.

But I would not allow them to pay you back.

You rent a house down the street and then you got your own place.

Which is even better.

You leave the grandkids with them screaming and crying.

You go back to your little

peaceful.

I think this one's broken.

I'm going to hand it back to you.

This one's crying.

I don't think this one's working right now.

I think I'll let you handle it.

Can you imagine David Sharon in Rachel's basement?

You're cooking away down there.

You decide it's whatever night and it's stinking the whole basement of.

I mean, the whole idea just is crazy of living in your kids' basement for three months.

Well, it would be different if you were broke.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, this was like a vacation.

I know.

An empty nester.

Hey, we'll come spend three months with you.

I'm going to come hang out just because I want to.

It's crazy.

Oh, my goodness.

Yeah.

Boundaries.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, and so

the other thing is

words matter.

Yeah.

Okay.

A gift

is not a gift if it has

conditions.

Yeah.

It is a purchase of ownership in the basement.

It's not a gift.

A gift has no strings attached.

So,

but yeah, that's the thing.

So, yeah, Alan, I would just, please, just let it go.

Just let it go.

Just play frozen on the radio and let it go.

You know, just like that.

Just over and over.

So true.

That's the answer to so many relationship ills, isn't it?

Yeah.

Just

let it go.

You've worked hard to control your money.

You've been budgeting with intention, building a plan, and creating a secure future for your family.

But there's one area most people forget to protect: their online data.

So I use delete me because, y'all, data brokers collect and post personal information like your home address, phone number, and even your kids' school's info.

They do it without your permission.

And once it's out there, it can be used by scammers, AI spam tools, and other people that you would never want to have access to your life.

So think about it.

You wouldn't hand that info to a stranger at the grocery store.

So why let it sit there online for anyone to find it?

Well, Delete Me helps you take control back.

Their team of real live privacy experts find your exposed info, remove it from sketchy websites, and makes sure that it stays gone.

Then they send you a report so that you know exactly what they've taken care of.

So protect your peace and the life that you're working so hard to build.

Right now, Ramsey listeners get 20% off at joindeleteme.com slash Ramsey with code Ramsey at checkout.

Do it today.

That's joindeleteme.com/slash Ramsey and code Ramsey.

Bethany is in Mississippi.

Hi, Bethany.

How are you?

Hi, thank you for taking my call.

Sure, what's up?

My husband inherited an annuity approximately 20 years ago, and it is currently worth about $233,000.

He is 72.

We keep rolling it over into different products because we just can't quite come to grips with taking some of the money out of it and getting a huge tax

implications from it.

So I didn't know if there are any ways potentially that we could, if we ever need the money, which currently we don't, we are completely debt-free

and it's a fixed index annuity.

And

is there ever any way to like get the money out of there without being hit on taxes so much?

Before you said that, did you say it's a fixed annuity?

It is.

Oh, gross.

I know, but when you inherit it, what are you going to to do?

Well, you can roll it to a variable annuity without any tax implications.

And a variable annuity is a mutual fund inside of an annuity that will give you over double the return you're getting now.

Okay.

So, yeah, you need to talk to one of our Smart Vestor Pros and get some help rolling it to a variable annuity.

Variable annuity simply is a

series of mutual funds that you can select inside of an annuity.

And in your situation, that's going to be a far superior product.

No, there's not any way to take no, but to answer your other part of your question, there's no way I know of to take the money out without paying taxes on it.

Right.

And so it's a taxable.

You've not paid taxes on the gains yet.

And

the real negative thing is you're going to pay ordinary income, not capital gains.

So it's much like

a traditional IRA, traditional 401k.

When you get ready to take the money out, you pay taxes on it at your income tax rate,

not at other things.

So

if you don't need it,

I probably would simply move it to a variable.

And because I'm like you, I don't want to pay those taxes.

Right.

We'll just leave it set and then kind of forget it.

Yeah, set it and forget it.

And

the problem is when the next generation inherits it, it's also going to be in the exact same situation.

So somebody someday is going to use this money and pay taxes on it.

Okay.

That's what I was afraid of.

Under current tax law, as I understand it, I don't know of any way you could do it otherwise.

And the thing is, it's not like you can, like a traditional 401k or IRA, you could roll that to a, if you were willing to pay the taxes, you could roll it to a Roth and it would grow from that point tax-free.

You don't have that option here.

You can't move it to a Roth.

So it's not going to grow tax-free once you get it out.

It's going to grow with taxes once you get it out.

So, you're going to get taxed on it.

And then the next year, when you make money, you're going to get taxed on it again.

So,

we're facing.

Yeah, that's the problem.

I think I'm leaving it in a variable and just do a rollover to that.

Now, the variable does have three features to it.

I'm not a huge fan of it, but for you, it's an excellent situation.

It has three features to it that are nice.

One is that most of the variable annuities nowadays have

a guaranteed minimum rate of return, which is probably about equal to your fixed.

Okay, so if you put it in mutual funds and they used to make 12, but they only made four,

they're going to promise you at least five or whatever the number is.

Okay.

Okay.

And so the other thing is, is that there's a guaranteed principal with most of them.

So if you move $250,000 in and you leave it in there five or seven years or whatever the number is, and it's worth $100,000, they're going to guarantee you the $250,000, the original principal.

So you're not going to lose principal and you're going to get a minimum rate of return.

Third thing is, it's just like your fixed annuity.

You can name a beneficiary on it, and it passes outside of probate.

It is not part of your federal income tax or your federal inheritance tax exemption.

And so if you've got a net worth north of $20 million and you're starting to deal with inheritance tax problems, then this doesn't come up.

It's not a problem.

It just goes straight to the beneficiary.

It's not got anything to do with a will either.

You can't change it with the will.

The named beneficiary is where it's going to go, period.

And so select the name of the beneficiary carefully because that's where it's going to go.

And no probate tax, no federal, or there is probate tax on it, possibly, but there's no federal exemption usage on that.

So it's really, it's got some nice features to it, but by and large, we don't use them.

But for you, where you are now, it's a better version than what you got.

Maria is in Hawaii.

Hi, Maria.

How are you?

I'm great.

Thank you.

What's up?

So in 23,

thank you for taking my call, by the way.

Sure.

We lost our home in Nulahana fires.

And

everybody was okay?

Yeah.

Thank God, yes.

Our family was fine.

We lost friends, which will forever be devastating.

Wow.

What a horrible thing to go through.

Yeah, and it's even after two years, it's still surreal.

Oh, yeah.

But

we're recovering, and we were very blessed that we bought a place.

But we're trying to get back to Lahaina.

And we're trying to figure out how financially we can do it without going in crazy debt.

We're almost at retire age, and we don't want to spend a million dollars while we don't have have it.

So,

with that being said, we have two wonderful children.

One's in college out of state, and one is with us, and he's going to school.

But they're a little too comfortable.

So,

I'm trying to put everybody on a budget, and

I don't know how to do it

more forcefully than you have been.

Yes,

absolutely.

I mean, what part of the budget is going to the kids?

Because I don't have a line item budget for fun stuff for my kids.

They take care of that, right?

Unless it's a family activity.

So let's take the college kid.

What's going on in that situation?

We pay for everything.

No matter what it is or when it is?

She just started working part-time.

And I do take 100 responsibility on this it's our fault we made their lives very comfortable yeah it is yeah so the bad news is the good news is uh that you woke up the bad news is is it's not going to be pleasant for them that's right yeah no and it already isn't because

the conversation would sound like this if it was at our house okay hey

i owe you an apology i let you live in a world that doesn't exist

And I've realized that, and I'm not going to do it anymore.

So in the real world, there's these things called limitations.

Money is finite.

In your world, it's not.

And now it's going to be finite starting now.

Here's how much I have calculated that you need a month to eat and to keep a place to sleep.

And that's how much I'm going to send you.

I'm going to pay your rent, and I'm going to send you this much for food, or you're on the meal plan, or you're on whatever.

And this is how much you're going to get.

If you want to do anything more than that, you're going to need to work.

That's right.

And they do.

They both work.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Quit making excuses.

Stop that.

Stop that.

I don't want to hear how great they are.

They're not great.

They have no limitations on their spending because their mother is an enabler.

Stop it.

Believe it or not, it's not their mother.

It's their dad.

No, it's you.

Okay.

No, I'm kidding.

You're fun.

I'm messing with you.

Okay.

You did really throw him up to the bus there.

So what I did was.

I love him dearly, though.

Yeah, but

the two of you have to lock arms and say, we are going to bless our children with a new lesson that money is finite.

Okay.

What we're doing now is not good for them,

even if it's good for you.

Even if you can afford it.

It's not good for them.

And when they run out of money at college, they'll go to work.

Don't bail them out.

No.

My son's car is broken.

Hey, last year, Dave, I got a call from the car.

I got a call from my son.

He says, hey, Dad, I got a date.

And I was very excited that he had a date.

And then he was like, he thought that was going to get the money for the date.

And I said, you got any money?

He goes, no, I don't have any money.

I said, well,

you're not going on a date.

Hey, you're going to the library in the park.

I'm not paying for dates.

It's not in my dates.

You're just going to be in the park until you get a job, buddy.

I don't even think he knows what a frisbee is.

Oh, well, you're cheap.

You can get one when you don't have a job.

Big news, the Fed just cut rates for the first time all year.

15-year fixed-rate mortgages have dropped to the lowest we've seen in 11 months, 5.71 right now.

If you're financially ready, now is a great time to buy or sell.

Lower rates could save you thousands over the life of your loan, but you don't need to be on the sidelines waiting on the perfect moment for the dream forever house.

Oh, brother, these words we use about housing.

It's a house, boys and girls.

Get you one when you're ready.

Buy an affordable home you love if possible when you work with a Ramsey trusted real estate agent.

It is possible.

It can happen.

These pros are handpicked to guide you through the market and keep your financial goals top of mind.

Find a trusted local pro for free at ramseysolutions.com slash agents.

Laurel is in Colorado.

Hi, Laurel.

What's up?

Hi, thank you so much for talking to me.

I really appreciate it.

Sure.

How can we help?

Well, I am in a transition period and I'm trying to figure out what to do for employment going forward.

And I was hoping I could get your take.

Okay, tell us about it.

All right, so I'm going to go back a little bit in time.

In 2019, my husband was diagnosed with an incurable cancer.

And the doctors, we went to multiple experts, and they all said he had about a year to live.

Thankfully, beyond thankfully,

he did great.

And at about the three and a half year mark, the doctors were all totally stunned and said, we cannot believe how healthy you are.

You are doing great.

We see no evidence of cancer having come back.

And we left the office feeling like we won the lottery.

Yeah.

Like the lottery of life, not the financial lottery.

Amen.

Wow.

Yeah.

What a roller coaster.

It was amazing.

Yeah,

from a one-year death sentence to three and a half years of healing.

Yes, sir.

Wow.

So,

you know, we spent the next couple months thinking about, you know, what do you do when life has handed you

this absolute miracle?

And we said, you know what?

He's not officially cured until five years, and

this is the time to just go do something that is a dream.

You know, we

were almost debt-free at that point.

We had good savings.

We had jobs that were semi-portable.

And so we decided to just spend some of our savings, not knowing how much longer he had, and go live on the road for a couple of years.

So we traveled the country, we volunteered in national parks, we helped out in different communities, we worked remotely a little bit.

It was absolutely amazing.

And

by some additional miracle, my husband got

a wonderful job.

while we were traveling where he makes terrific money and he can do it fully remotely.

So we've been actually able to, instead of pulling money out of our savings to go do this dream for a little while, we actually sucked away a ton of money while we were traveling.

What's a ton?

About $500,000.

That's a ton.

That's good.

And we wiped out all of our debt.

So no debt.

And we almost doubled our net worth.

Do you own a house?

Well, that's actually, that's the perfect question because that's where I am right now.

We just bought a house.

We decided it was time to settle down again.

He was officially declared cured of his cancer,

which I could almost cry just saying it.

Yeah.

So we are in this amazing place now.

And we just bought a house that we love.

We paid for it with cash because we've been living well below our means and saving money like the Dickens.

And we don't have any debt because we made a point of paying off all our debt as fast as possible.

I love your show, by the way.

So, so here I am with my husband having a great job.

He's still making great money.

What does he make now?

He makes maybe between $250 and $300.

It's sort of and he's fully remote, and you have a paid-for-house and no debt.

Correct.

And how much in your net stake now?

Besides the house, it's about maybe $1.2 million.

Okay, so you're sitting on

I don't think you said how much the house is.

How much was the house?

About $700.

Okay, so you got about $2 million net worth.

How old are you guys?

He's a little older than I am.

I'm 49.

He's 60.

Okay.

Okay.

Wow.

What a great place.

I love your story.

Thank you, Laurie.

I can't wait for the question.

So what in the world?

What kind of question can you have?

Yeah, this is crazy.

Yeah, I almost feel guilty at writing in because I know folks have more serious problems than this.

But

here's my situation.

I put my career on hold for the last couple of years because I really wanted to do this thing where

we lived our lives for a couple of years because we didn't know if that's all he had.

And now that we know we have...

We have more time, like that, that black cloud is gone.

You know, we're in this house that we absolutely love.

Our expenses are very reasonable.

You know, we live very modestly.

What's your career?

Save a ton of money.

So I actually have a couple options.

I'm by trade, I'm a lawyer, but I'm also a teacher.

What do you want to do?

Oh, I mean, okay, so that's

like you've listened.

Can I tell you something?

You've been setting this up.

And in setting it up to Dave and I, it's almost like you're embarrassed.

So stop all that and just.

I am a little embarrassed.

Don't be.

Don't be.

Don't be.

You're blessed.

So I know you want to do something.

What do you want to do?

Just say what's at the top of the list.

And you can give me number two.

Well, give me number one and give me number two.

What do you want to do?

Say it, Laurel.

Okay, so I have three ideas.

Give me three.

One through three.

Quick, go.

What's number one?

Okay, so the first one is a job that doesn't pay a lot, but it helps the community because I love doing community work.

What is it, name it?

Maybe doing like substitute teaching or doing some kind of

number two.

Number two would be,

you know what, just dive back in, make a ton of money, make our nest egg huge, and just suck it up for a few years and have a terrific next nest.

So being a lawyer is number two.

Maybe, yeah.

Okay, all right, number three.

And then number three would be somewhere in between.

So get a job that's like nine to five.

It pays well, it has benefits, but also like I come home, my job, I don't take my job home with me.

All right, so which one of those three is most exciting?

Number four.

Uh-oh.

Uh-oh.

Well, I already know the answer.

None of the above.

Number four.

None of the above.

What do you mean?

I want a job that pays $250,000 a year that's remote using your law degree, and you guys can pick up stakes and go spend four months in Europe if you want to.

Well, it's my husband who makes that money.

I know.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I was talking about you.

Oh.

Dave gave you a fourth on.

I don't know why you think that if something has meaning and is helpful to the community that it has to not pay anything.

You totally stumped her.

I know where she's at.

Laurel, what is the one?

You definitely stumped me.

I know, because the thing you want to do with the substitute and all that, there's something there.

And I was going to say both and.

I don't care which one of it's one, two, three, or four.

I'm not disagreeing with Dave either.

But you've got to determine what it is you want to do right now.

And that can change six months from now.

You're in the rare situation that you actually can do that, which is why I'm saying both and.

But I believe.

I think there's a clear winner in the clubhouse.

If you couldn't do any of them,

you could only do one.

Which one do you choose?

Say it.

Oh, I would do the one that pays less and goes back to between and I knew that.

I knew that.

Do you know why I knew that?

Because I've done this a lot, and somebody always gives the one that they want to do the most first.

It's just basic psychology.

So here's the deal.

Just go do some of that.

Go substitute, go teach, go do whatever.

And if six weeks in you go, ha, I scratched that itch and I want to do something else, then do something else.

Because you are in the rare situation to be able to do that.

You do not have any reason.

Do you think I am?

I guess maybe that's part of my question.

You're all here alone.

You are

scared about

we actually have enough.

Are we

enough?

You don't have to work.

You do.

You have enough.

You don't have to work.

And for that reason, I think you can pick your battles and choose what you do and how you do it.

And I think there's a lot of things you could do that were

without getting in a law firm meat grinder.

You don't have any reason to do that.

But there's with the education level you have, you've got a lot of options that pays better than substitute teaching at the local elementary school.

You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best.

If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the Smart Vestor program.

Smart Vestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more.

Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options so you never have to invest in anything you don't understand.

Head to ramseysolutions.com/slash smartvestor to get connected.

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros.

Learn more at ramseysolutions.com/slash smartvestor.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

Anna is with us in Virginia.

Hi, Anna.

How are you?

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call.

I really appreciate your time.

Sure.

How can we help?

So

I'm 62.

I've been divorced for 10 years.

I've never been particularly great with money.

I've always, my ex-husband was better with it than I was.

We were, we never saved a ton, just and we never got into a lot of debt, but we never made a lot of money.

So we did the best we could.

I'm, I was working remotely for a company for the past five years, and I was, I was making really good, I mean, good money for, for me, I would say 70,000, which was more than I'd ever made in my life.

But I was let go due to a company losing their contract.

I just, that was in June.

I just got another job, which I'm very grateful for.

So I can hopefully, you know, ride that out for the next 10 years,

you know, to retire.

I think I could, I'm in very good health.

I think I'd be able to do that for, you know, until at least in my, you know, early 70s.

What are you making?

What are you making in this new job?

So the new job, the new job, about $45,000.

But I also get, because of my ex-husband's very hard work, I have a pension that I get because he works for the Department of Defense.

So I get about $1,000 a month.

That is

only until he passes.

So he's in great health and all of that.

But so that is contingent upon his, you know, his life.

Weird way to get you to pray for your ex-husband.

I know.

I love him, though.

I pray for him anyway.

Probably send him a lot of vitamins.

I know.

Like, no, don't go on that trip.

Something might happen.

Yeah.

All right.

So $45,000 from $70,000.

I know.

And I don't think I probably handled, I think I was so excited about having that money that I probably didn't do as much with it, you know, as I could have.

Anyway, how can we help?

Here I am.

Okay.

So I have about $100,000

between the ROP IRA and a 401k.

Good.

I live, I have a house, so I own it.

I mean, I...

I'm owning, I have a mortgage on it.

I only owe $100,000 on it, and my payment is is about $7.50,000 a month.

So I have about a 2.75%

interest rate.

I don't have any other debt.

So

how can I, these last, you know, what is, what do I do?

Like, tell me what to save, where to put it.

I've heard about annuities.

No.

I don't know really much.

No?

Okay.

So I'm very confused about just give me a plan for the next

10 years

to get the most out of what I've got left here.

Okay.

I want you to start investing into your 401k or Roth IRAs 15%

of your income, so $7,000 a year.

Okay.

Okay.

And do you have a 401k with a match at the new place?

I do, 5%.

Good.

Okay.

So definitely go there.

If it's a Roth, make it a Roth if they have Roth available.

Okay.

Okay.

And $7,000 a year.

And any other money you can squeeze out of the budget, we want to throw at at the house until the house is paid off.

Okay.

So don't, like, I was thinking, do I pull all that money out and pay off my house and then start?

No.

Oh, no.

Okay.

And I want to make sure that money is invested in good growth stock mutual funds.

Okay.

All right.

So here's the thing.

In seven years, when you're 69, the 100 will be 200 if you don't touch it.

Okay.

In seven more years, it'll be 400.

But that would be 76 years years old

okay all right

that's if you don't add anything to it and we're adding at least seven thousand dollars a month to it all of this is invested in good long track record growth stock mutual funds Roth everything

okay Roth 401k Roth IRA sit down with the Smart Vestor Pro any other money we can find we throw at the mortgage when you're 70 I want you to have a good nest egg based on this 200 $200,000 to $300,000, and a paid-for house.

Okay.

That's what we're aiming at at this point.

However, I think you're underemployed, don't you, Ken?

I absolutely do.

Because your situation is not uncommon for changes to be made.

So what were you doing when you were making 70?

I was an executive assistant, but I think, honestly,

I was overpaid.

I don't.

No, not at all.

Sounds really weird.

No, I don't think you were.

Absolutely not.

What are you doing now?

Well, it was, so I was an executive assistant for a medical courier company.

So now I'm actually a courier for a different company.

It was a lab company that picked up.

So you took a step down in position to get a job.

Yes.

I'm glad you got a job.

That's step one.

I admire that.

I think you go back into the executive assistant world.

I'm telling you something right now with your experience, and I will tell you, and what's great about the executive assistant world is your age right now is not in any way a deterrent.

That is not going to hurt you.

And you may be surprised.

I know for a fact, I've got a handful of guys I'm thinking of right now, and their executive assistants are making over $100,000.

Easy.

Wow.

Now, I'm not

in their 60s and 70s.

That's exactly right.

Now, I'm not dangling that out.

These are high net worth.

These are larger companies, but I'm telling you,

you have got some real experience I'm gonna throw another organization at you I want you to look up Belay B-E-L

a Y okay and they sponsor a lot of Ramsey events I know their owners okay they're good people I've known them a long long time they do virtual assistants they do virtual assistants and so they are connecting people like you on their website to executives and high net worth people who need help and you can do your job for these people from there.

If you're technology savvy with computers and all that, you should go to their website today, tell them that we sent you and just talk to them, see about that.

But Dave is right, you are underemployed.

I think you ought to be aiming where you are in retirement, I think you ought to be setting your sights high to try to be making 90 to 120 in an executive assistant role.

That's what you ought to be looking for.

And I would start at 80

if you had to.

That's right.

But I think you were underpaid before, and I know you're underpaid now.

So maybe not as a courier, but what you have have the potential to make.

So there's several elements.

We're going to take the nest egg and make it work as hard as we can.

We're going to add to it systematically 15% of your income.

Right now, that's about $7,000 a year.

But if we double it, it'll double, right?

Okay.

The third thing is we're going to work on paying off the house with any extra money we can squeeze out of the budget.

And the fourth thing is we're going to get our income up so we make all of these things happen bigger, better, faster.

Yes, I will look into that delay today.

Yeah, all of that.

But all companies locally look for remote positions.

Yeah, everybody doesn't have to be in your backyard, but you're doing it remote before.

But Ken is right.

I mean, we've got

a bunch of executive assistants inside of Ramsey that make more than that.

Yes.

So that work here.

And so not unusual at all.

And not unusual at all for them to be in your age bracket either.

So

all of that is true and it makes for you know the just a fabulous situation for everyone involved.

We've all done dumb things with money.

I've done them with zeros on the end.

One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it.

You got to have a plan.

You got to be intentional and you need to get a budget.

You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where it went.

Our budgeting app, Every Dollar, helps you do just that.

It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan for every dollar you've got coming in and going out.

Now's the best time to get started before the ridiculous holiday spending season gets here and sucks you in because you didn't have a plan.

Don't let that happen.

You're done making that mistake.

Go download Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today.

Today's question of the day is brought to you by YReFi.

If your private student loans are in default, it can feel like nobody will work with you.

But YReFi was built for this.

They'll help you explore a fresh start.

Go to yrefi.com slash Ramsey.

That's the letter Y R E F Y dot com slash Ramsey.

Not available in all states.

Today's question comes from Tim in Pennsylvania.

Our daughter is 19 years old and failed her first year of college.

She applies for jobs but has a bad attitude that I'm sure shows up in interviews.

My wife and I are both successful in our fields, are in baby step six and have $1 million in retirement funds, so it's not like she hasn't had a good example at home.

What little savings she has is dwindling away from eating out and subscribing to useless phone apps.

We've recently told her that she will have to start paying $150 rent starting next month.

She says we are being unfair because she doesn't have a job, but we explained if we lose our jobs, the bills still have to be paid and no one gets a pass.

Are we being too harsh, charging a nominal rent, which will go into a college fund for her if and when she decides to go back?

I am sure this isn't a unique problem as this seems like a generational thing, but we want to help her launch into adulthood.

Well, a couple things here.

You know, my personal parenting style on this is I'm not going to fund her for anything, zero,

until she figures out how hard life is with a really, really bad attitude.

I think that's the first thing.

I don't mind you charging her rent and putting more pressure on her to act like a young adult.

So I don't think you're being too harsh.

I feel like you've probably been a little bit too lax on this situation.

But the more you can not bail her out, the more that you can just let her fail.

Failure is life's best teacher, and it's going to be hard to stand by as parents and watch it, but I think that's what's necessary here.

And there's a lot in this that we don't know, there's a lot under the surface here, so really hard to fully go at the source of this, but that's my take on this particular specific question.

First and foremost, you and your wife have to be in lockstep.

No

way can you be separated by this child who is misbehaving.

Okay, Okay?

The two of us have to be unified in our approach.

Secondly, real love says, not what feels good today, but real love says, what helps this child be a successful 30-year-old?

What steps can I get, what can I give her now that she doesn't have to cause her to be a successful 30-year-old?

I really don't care what her pain is or her whining is in between.

And

I really think that one or both of you have been way soft on this kid for a very long time.

And now you're trying to make up ground and you think $150 is tough.

I think $1,500 is tough.

$150 is wimpy.

Yeah.

Because that's what she's going to pay if she tries to leave.

Okay.

So I'm going to take a little different position than Ken.

Number one, you're locked Number two, every move that you make is an act of love that is going to help her become the 30-year-old that she needs to become.

And so her problem is, is that she's never really had any problems.

And so I'm going to help her have some problems.

I'm going to usher problems into her life.

I'm going to start creating all kinds of problems.

You're paying for her cell phone.

Not anymore.

I'm going to take it up.

We're going to sell it.

And if you want a cell phone, you're going to have to go get you one.

You're paying for her car gas.

We're not anymore.

If she wants car gas, she's going to have to go get a job.

You're paying for everything.

And you're washing her freaking clothes.

And you've got to stop it.

This is not a one-year-old.

This is a 19-year-old with failure to launch.

And no, Tim, this is not a generational thing.

This is a parenting thing.

Every generation has had people that acted like this, and every generation has had productive people.

This is not a generational thing.

All 19-year-olds are not this way.

We talked to 19-year-olds that are millionaires.

So, you know, it's just not true.

It's nothing to do with the generation.

It's got to do with your kid.

And so, what I'm going to do is make her life hard.

As hard as I can possibly make it, as quick as I can possibly make it.

I want her to become highly uncomfortable because the way she's living her life deserves it.

And if she keeps living her life this way, she's going to be a 30-year-old that's a complete abject failure trying to figure out why this world didn't give her what she was entitled to, which is nothing.

So I'm going to be really kind and strong and gentle, and I'm going to create all kinds of hell.

for her until she moves out and gets a job.

I really want her to leave as fast as she can go.

I want her to go get a job as fast as she can go.

I want her to be so uncomfortable that she goes and gets a job and goes and gets a life and starts buying her own milk and starts buying her own bread.

And suddenly her character will change.

It's going to be the most amazing transformation.

But you are going to be called every name in the book.

Because you've made it soft for so long and now you're changing the program.

And changing the program is going to feel very unfair.

Baby at all, I am sorry.

I owe you an apology.

We have been too soft on you and you're quickly becoming useless.

And we love you too much to allow you to be useless.

And I just love you so much and so I'm going to help you have some problems because I want you to be an unbelievable success when you're 30 and so I'm we're going to create problems for you.

And you're not going to like me for a while but you need to know I love you.

And you need to know I'll always make you a plate of food.

But I'm going to create some problems for you.

See, the eagle, when it builds a nest, it builds a nest out of thorns, long

six-inch thorn bush thorns.

And then it fills the nest with down.

From anything soft, anything it can find, to where when the baby eagle is born, it is born in complete comfort.

As the baby eagle grows in stature and begins to stretch out its little wings, the mama eagle removes the down every day a little bit more from the nest.

And every day those thorns get more and more pronounced until it's almost impossible to sit in the nest.

And the little baby eagle has to get up on the edge of the nest because you can no longer sit in a thorn bush in the bottom of the nest.

And then when the baby eagle's up on the side of the nest, you know what it'll do?

It'll start flapping its wings

and it will fall

and then the wings will start working and it will glide.

And you know, the mother eagle holds her breath, wondering if this is the first eagle that can't fly.

But it turns out it's not.

Turns out this eagle can fly, but it never would have left the nest if it was comfortable.

And an eagle that doesn't leave the nest eventually is known as a turkey.

And so little turkey needs to leave the nest.

It's going to be good for little turkey.

Gobble, gobble.

You know, I'm so mean and nasty these days.

No, you're not.

I was following you, and and I thought, well, if the eagle becomes a turkey, then the turkey ends up on the Thanksgiving table.

Whoa!

Whoa!

You get baked.

People eat it.

Yeah, that's it.

The world will eat you alive.

I was tracking

away.

I was trying to.

Don't get eat alive.

Yeah,

we don't serve eagle.

That's what I'm doing.

Eagle's not on turkey.

You don't see eagles on the Thanksgiving table.

Huh, that's very interesting.

I know.

That's a good point.

I thought about that.

I was cracking with you.

I was really paying attention.

My redneck buddies, they don't go eagle hunting, they go turkey hunting, though.

No, no, that's right.

We admire eagles, we eat turkeys.

There's a bumper sticker.

Oh, no, I think it's a great point.

I, and I, by the way, that was a very good description, but I am all for failure.

Let the kid fail.

Yeah, you can't keep failing them out because, again, at some point, whatever was going on when she failed college was going on when she was in high school and was going on when she was in the sixth grade.

That's right.

This isn't a first time this has come up.

Her little attitude is going to get adjusted out there.

Right.

Well, I don't think she's ever had to finish dealing with failure.

She's never had to finish the results of her attitude.

Sucking.

That's it.

That's right.

Because that's 100% of the time a bad attitude will cause you to have a bad life.

Period.

And that didn't start at college, and that didn't start when she was living in the basement rent-free.

And $150 doesn't fix that either.

That's true.

It's not stiff enough.

Hey, what's up?

Dr.

John Deloney here.

The new dates have dropped for the Money and Marriage Getaway over Valentine's Day weekend in 2026.

This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee.

Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication, and more.

This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th, and early bird prices start at $749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon.

Get your tickets today at ramseysolutions.com/slash events.

Jake is in Texas.

Hi, Jake.

How are you?

Better than I deserve, Dave.

Good.

How can we help?

So me and the wife are about six weeks from selling one of our businesses, and

we're going to end up with about $1.1 million in our pocket when we're done.

Plus, we get to keep the real estate.

So

we've got a little bit of a mortgage left, and we've got some debt on another business.

We're just kind of not sure to take this money and go to the market or to go ahead and get 100% debt free across the board and then go to the market.

We're just not

sure.

Well, you knew what I would say, didn't you?

Well, I knew what I wanted to hear.

Sometimes you just need to hear it.

I mean, if you answer the call better than I deserve, you already know what I'm going to say, dude.

So

the 1.1, have you paid the 1.1?

Congratulations, by the way.

It's wonderful to grow a business and have a liquidity moment like that.

That's incredible.

Very well done.

You're a millionaire.

That's just so cool.

So proud of you.

Have you paid your taxes out of the 1.1 yet?

That is our net.

So I've already calculated all of the steams.

Okay, you're going to have that clear of taxation.

Correct.

Good.

Okay.

And how much do you owe on the business and owe on your home?

The business that we're selling is that free.

We have

the one you wanted to pay off.

So we have three auto loans that are about $100,000 combined, and then we have some equipment loans, two pieces of equipment that are about $100,000 combined.

And how much do you owe on your home?

We owe $155,000 on our home.

So $355,000 makes you 100%

debt-free.

That's correct.

The real estate from the deal you sold is already debt-free.

Correct.

We will get about $3,500 triple-net lease on that property.

You don't have a payment in the whole world

if you write $355,000 worth of checks.

That's it.

Okay.

It's a no-brainer, man.

I'm debt-free.

And

that's going to leave you $700,000

to do some investing with.

Oh, darn.

Yep.

Well, thank you for helping us get here, Dave.

You've truly been a blessing to me and my wife.

And we never thought we would be able to do that.

What kind of business was it that you sold?

It was an oil and gas manufacturing company that we started it less than 12 months ago.

Whoa!

Wow.

Yeah.

No, the American dream is dead, they tell us.

Yeah.

The system is rigged.

Little man can't get ahead.

You did, didn't you?

In 12 months.

God, come.

That's incredible.

That's great.

That's well done, Jake.

And by the way, a manufacturing company.

You don't see any fancy, glitzy brochures and commercials for.

Didn't hear the word digital?

No.

Didn't

heard a building left behind on Triple Net?

Yeah, man, way to go, Jake.

Dude, that's incredible.

Explain that to me real quick.

The Triple Net.

Triple Net is like typically done with warehouses or a situation like he's doing, one of the two.

And Triple Net means that the landlord pays for nothing.

So if I'm the tenant and I have triple net, I pay my utilities, I pay the insurance on the building, and I pay the property taxes on the building, and I pay anything associated with the building.

So when I write a check to the landlord, it is net, net, net.

Wow.

All of it, 100% of that 3,500 bucks is there's

his operating income after expenses is the same as his gross revenue.

Wow.

So it's like clipping coupons.

It's a very nice, sweet little commercial real estate deal.

I love a triple net lease.

Landlord's got almost no responsibilities.

If there's something breaks on the building, oh, repairs, maintenance, you have to fix it.

Roof leaks, you've got to fix it.

Dumb question here, because I'm just now learning about this.

What makes that possible in a situation like that?

What are the factors that would allow someone to get that kind of a deal?

Well, typically, it is a single-use building, right?

Okay.

Or at least the area that it's encapsulated encapsulated because you couldn't pay, you couldn't do repairs like on the other end of the building for the other tenant if you're the tenant, right?

So it's typically a single-use building.

Again, a lot of times it's a very simple building, like a warehouse, something like that.

I don't know of any retail that does triple net.

I don't know of any, very few offices do triple net, that kind of thing.

Most of those have common area maintenance, cam in them, those kinds of things, other ways of covering the expenses.

But that standalone single-use building.

The other thing would be if you did like a a build-to-suit, like if you built a Walgreens.

If I built a Walgreens and Walgreens was the tenant, Walgreens is probably, those are probably triple net leases.

I don't know if they are, but they probably are.

I do know Walgreens doesn't own their buildings.

They have local investors build them, and then

they pay the rent,

and I think they pay all the expenses.

So this is a sweet deal.

He sells the company that the building is in, but keeps the building.

He still owns the real estate

and has a low maintenance or low hassle check coming in.

Very low hassle.

Does that tell us that they were so thrilled to get the actual business that they were willing to play ball?

Probably, but it probably is a single-use manufacturing warehouse type building.

Gotcha.

Probably a typical way to structure that also.

But I don't think he, I mean, I think, but yeah, they wanted to stay in the building.

They had an ongoing concern and it's a good place to keep going.

Yeah, absolutely.

Good, good, good.

Robertson, Florida.

Hey, Robert, how are you?

I'm better than I deserve.

How are y'all y'all doing?

Same, sir.

How can we help?

Well,

me and my wife, we are in a good situation,

very blessed.

We have some, some, our two children are late in high school, about to retire.

So we're about to be are about to graduate.

Sorry, so we're about to be empty nesters.

And we're looking to buy a second home.

We live in Florida.

Love vacation up in

Colorado in the mountains when it's nice and cool and in the summer when it's hotter than heck in Florida, and we are at a position where we are able to pay cash for that house.

Awesomeness.

The thing is, I've done many of the steps.

I like to think that we are well into number seven,

but I still have six.

Then you're not in seven.

The current home that I have, I'm struggling.

We do have a mortgage.

How much do you own your current mortgage?

$954,950.

Okay.

And how much cash do you have available to do the mortgage payoff and buy the Colorado house?

We currently have about $6.65 million

available?

Available, correct.

And we're going to use about $3.5 million for the cash on the Colorado house.

The issue is, or what I'm struggling with, what's the house in Florida worth?

About $4.3 million.

Okay, what's your total net worth?

Just over 15 million, and that would not include the value of my business if I were to sell my business.

That's just in real estate, cash stocks,

assets.

Okay.

Well,

you know the story.

I pay cash for everything.

And

in 34 years of doing this show, I've never talked anybody into paying off their house that they call me back mad.

Well, that's the struggle is, I guess I didn't get to that in 2020.

Rates were low, I refinanced and refinanced to a 15-year 2.25.

But knowing that my $10,000 a month is only at $2.25 on that particular mortgage, I make well.

Hey, Robert, you didn't get rich borrowing on your house.

You got rich being smart.

That's the struggle.

I see the

house.

You didn't get rich leveraging your house.

It's not where your wealth came from.

Your wealth came from being smart.

And so you're mystifying yourself with a little bit of mathematics and you're leaving out risk.

So if I were you, I would write a check today and I would be debt-free and I would buy a house in Colorado for cash and I would be debt-free and I'd be sitting in my two wonderful properties enjoying life with $15 million net worth and not a payment in the world and not trying to noodle around how I'm making 52 cents on the spread on this mortgage.

It's just, you're burning a lot of calories here over nothing.

Truthfully, I'd pay that thing off so fast it'd be unbelievable.

And if you hate it and I'm wrong, you can go get you another mortgage.

Our scripture of the day, Psalm 119, 89 and 90, Your word, Lord, is eternal.

It stands firm in the heavens.

Your faithfulness continues through all generations.

You establish the earth and it endures.

Thomas Jefferson said, in matters of style, swim with the current.

In matters of principle, stand like a rock.

Ooh.

It's my all-time favorite Jefferson quote, actually.

Very, very good.

If you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on, pay the mortgage, and afford groceries?

If anyone in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance.

But how do you choose?

Well, term life insurance is the best way to do this.

It's the least expensive, and you avoid getting ripped off with bad investment plans inside of whole life or permanent life.

You only need life insurance while someone depends on you financially.

So if you're like most people, you need a policy that's 10 to 12 times your annual income for a term length of 15 to 20 years.

And it should be a level policy, means the premium stays the same.

If you want to learn more about this, use our free term life insurance guide.

Go to ramseysolutions.com/slash term lifeguard or click the link in the description and we'll help you out.

Sam's in Pittsburgh.

Hey, Sam, how are you?

Doing well, thank you.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

My husband and I are

trying to make a decision regarding my career where I would be transitioning from a public school position to a private school position

that

is very appealing in every way except financially.

My income would be reduced by one-third if we made this decision, and we are currently on bab step two.

Is this you're a teacher?

I am transitioning from a service provider to a school counseling position.

Is the reason for the move just desire to be in a better environment or is it really, really bad where you are?

It is

currently the desire to be in another environment with what seems to be writing on the wall where it's going to get really bad in what my current role is.

How long before it gets really bad?

Weeks, months at most, but definitely this school year I see being very tumultuous with some of the administrative decisions that have been made.

Is it real wear and tear schedule-wise, or is it just something you disagree with?

I'm going somewhere with this while I'm digging.

What are those decisions going to cause for you specifically?

I am worried about ramifications to my professional reputation based on decisions that are out of my hands because my

it is my role to provide the service but I didn't get to decide be a part of these decisions and the way it was changed but I'm the face of the service to the family

and I do have that concern especially as someone who you know I have at least 20 years until retirement I have a long road to go and my reputation matters and it affects my job and my liability now what do you do and you're a school counselor Is that what you're saying?

Yes.

Well, my current role is very closely related to school counseling, but I'm finishing my school counseling certification right now

with the hopes of transitioning into school counseling anyway.

And this position has opened up that does not require me to be finished with my certification.

What do you make?

But I'll be able to finish it.

What do you make?

I currently make $74,000.

And you'd make like $50,000.

I would make $50,000.

When is that?

Also, I'll be making increased salary on the teacher steps because I do have a teacher contract.

And eventually the classes I take will also bump me up some in my salary.

All right.

So when do you anticipate you're going to be done with baby step two if you were to stay where you are?

That is a fantastic question.

We have tried to plot it out where by May, which is also towards the end of the school year, and when I would be finishing my certification.

So it doesn't affect baby step two.

I'm sorry.

Oh, you make it by the end of May if you do the children.

You make it by the end of May if

she stays where she is.

They get it done in May.

If you don't stay where you are, when do you get it done?

That's our question.

Are you planning to go?

I'm sorry.

I hate to keep interrupting you.

I apologize.

But

I'm having these thoughts.

So are you planning to stay to the end of the school year regardless?

This position, I would be transitioning in October.

Oh, immediately.

Okay.

So it's the third year.

So instead of May, it's going to be September or October of next year before you're debt-free.

All right.

And then another quick follow-up.

Another quick follow-up on what you told us.

If you take this cut and go to a private school, how long or if ever will it take for you to get back to the 70 that you're making now?

I don't know if it would ever happen because it's based on

fundraising initiatives and things like that, how they can increase salaries.

I just don't, I haven't heard enough.

I just haven't heard enough, and I may be not understanding how it affects your reputation, but I would hate for you to take this job right now.

Private schools are always going to be there.

Those positions are going to be there.

A third pay cut while you're in the middle, baby step two.

I've advised people before to do it if it had some extreme situations to it.

I don't see it, Dave.

Do you feel something different?

I'd almost stick it out as my point

and get done with the school year and knock out baby step two

and then look at it.

But if it's going to harm your reputation, I mean, it sounds like there's an ethics breach.

That's what I don't.

I can't figure it out.

Yeah, but

what they're asking her to do is against her moral code.

Is that what we're hearing?

Yes, yes.

I see some writing on the wall where there's going to be rather large ramifications, and I actually worry about the long-term position security.

Okay.

All right.

Well, then I always want you to do what's right.

Let me just say that.

I didn't quite pick up on that it's that serious.

But if that's serious,

I don't want to stay where there's an ethics problem or I'm asked to be engaged in something I ethically can't do.

I can't stay.

But I also don't want to

create that in my mind if the other is just more comfortable.

And I don't think I'm hearing that, but I'll just warn you against that.

Okay.

It's like, I really want to go over there because it's my people and I'm more comfortable there.

And so I'm going to blow the drama up over here in my head.

I have the ability to do that.

So I have to guard against that, Sam.

I'm not saying you're doing that.

I'm just saying I can do that.

So guard against that.

Thank you.

If you're going to take it, the other thing, yes, I'm going to take it, but

I'm also going to look for ways to supplement my income utilizing my career field.

Is there independent tutoring or independent

counseling you can do with your certification that's legal or independent help you can provide a student the parents can pay for on the side, akin to a teacher doing tutoring,

those kinds of things.

There probably is.

And I'm going to look for some kind of side hustle that's in the field that supplements and almost gets me back up there.

And it's probably going to mean some extra hours, but that's the trade-off for getting away from the slime and getting into a good area.

I agree.

That's the strategic question, Sam.

How do I replace the one-third that I'm giving up?

That's the goal.

That's the goal.

Yeah, and so, you know, it just blows my mind that people can get paid $40 or $50 an hour for math tutoring.

Now, that's not your field, okay?

But they are reading help, helping people with remedial reading as side tutoring.

The money that can be made doing that.

I even know one guy who's coaching

high school and middle schoolers independently in his backyard with basketball skills.

He He played D1 basketball and his side hustle is doing that.

And he's

a personal trainer for up-and-coming basketballers, and he's making 50 bucks an hour doing it.

So that's the kind of thing I'm always looking for in this situation.

Good question.

I hope it works well for you.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.