Stop Letting Other People Wreck Your Finances

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Normal is broke, and common sense is weird.

So, we are here to help you transform your life

from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio.

This is the Ramsey Show.

And I'm Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Camill.

So, we're here to take your calls.

Give us a call at 888-825-5225.

Up first, we have Sean in Springfield, Illinois.

Hey, Sean, welcome to the show.

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call.

I'm a huge fan.

Oh, well, thanks for calling in.

How can we help?

So, basically,

my question is:

Should I take a loan to

pay off a debt?

That way, I have a little bit of breathing room so I can start baby step one.

Should you take out

one?

You're going to take out a loan to pay off another loan and that somehow gives you breathing room?

Aren't you just swapping one payment for another?

Yes, but if I took out the loan, I'd have a smaller payment because right now

the loan is $500 a month and that plus rent plus my car payment and all my other insurance and groceries and all that puts me just barely making it by every month.

What would the payment be?

It'd probably be closer to $100 a month instead of $500.

By dragging it out?

Yeah.

Okay.

So it's a $400 swing.

How much are you making there?

Without overtime, about $40,000.

Okay.

Are you doing overtime now?

I'm getting as much overtime as I can, and it's kind of our slow season right now.

So whenever I'm not at work, I'm door dashing to make some extra money.

What do you do?

I work in agriculture.

So

I drive, I move fertilizer to the fields and apply it.

Okay.

Yeah, so getting into winter months, you guys aren't.

What's your total debt?

My total debt is $20,000.

And what is that?

Break that down for us.

$17,000 of it is for my car, and the other $3,000 is for this debt that's currently that I'm talking about.

Okay, for your car,

have you Kelly Blue booked it to see what you could sell it for?

Yeah,

it, on a private party, is worth about

$11,000.

Okay.

So you're six grand underwater there.

And you're saying the 3K debt has a $500 a month payment?

Yeah,

it's currently, I believe it's considered in collections,

it's $250 every paycheck for 11 more weeks.

And then you're done.

Well, 11 more payments when I'm done, yes.

I mean, Sean, I'll be honest, no.

I probably wouldn't switch it because I feel like when you're getting out of debt or you're starting baby step one even, it's this gazelle intensity where you are working every minute of every waking day.

If possible, you're door dashing on the week.

I mean, you are, you're figuring out a way to get out of debt faster.

So, and a part of me kind of wants you just to figure out how to do it because this is going to help you get out of debt faster.

$500 a month is a minimum payment versus spreading it out.

And I understand you're trying to get that margin, but I would pick up that $400 somewhere else from an income perspective, honestly.

Cause yeah, I feel like

that this this is the reason why you would be gazelle intense.

Like this is this will fuel you and instead of kind of like slow you down, because there's almost a level of, I understand what you're saying, that, yeah, that $400 a month,

but I want you to get $1,000 in the next 30 days.

So I don't know how you're going to do it.

But like, that's the baby step one intensity.

It's not slowing down the payments so that I can have more margin to do baby step one.

It is, we're going above and beyond our normal to be able to find extra money.

Because that 3,000 debts, you're smallest.

So that's the next one to attack.

So I'd rather you putting more toward the principal, which is the 500, than putting 100 toward it just so you can get your baby step one.

The key here is finding the secret sauce in your income to be able to do the baby steps, not to move the debt around and add more debt in order to try to make it work.

Because that's not changing any behavior that got us here.

And also, that car is half your income.

So that's another glaring issue here.

And you're way underwater on it.

Did you roll over negative equity?

Why is it worth so little?

So I got the car the beginning of September,

and

I needed a

new vehicle.

Yeah.

And it already dropped 6,000?

It dropped 6,000 in like 60 days?

I

am like 90% positive I overpaid for it.

So you got hosed at the dealership?

Do what I'm talking about?

Did you get hosed at a dealership?

Like, who sold you this car?

Like, who hates you that much?

Yeah,

it was car-wise.

So, you know, the whole one-time down, take a car home today kind of.

And you probably got a crazy high.

What's the interest rate on this?

23%.

There we go.

Ding, ding, ding.

Oh, my gosh.

We have a winner.

Okay.

That sales guy must have just been like on his smoke break.

But you would not believe this.

23% on this last one.

Come on, Sean.

He already made the mistake.

I know.

I'm just like.

You went in there for a vehicle, right?

Just something reliable?

Yeah, because my truck had just broken down.

I'm trying to make this help

me and everyone understand what happens in these scenarios.

So you go in and you say, here's the payment I can afford, and they go, we can make that work.

Yeah,

pretty much.

Which, that's normal, Sean.

I don't know why George is being so.

I'm not.

I'm just

trying to show people the tricks of the dealership.

That's right.

That is.

Because someone else is about to fall for that.

He's desperate for a reliable payment.

And it's the urgency that they pick up on.

My truck is dead.

And people are like, perfect.

I got a guy who needs to be able to do it.

It's not a payment you look at.

The desperation is the year we can do it.

So don't fall for it, people.

Everyone listening.

So, Sean, I almost would be curious if you went down to your credit union and got a $10,000 loan, paid off the difference of the truck, got a $4,000 crappy car off some highway in Illinois and called it a day.

And I'd rather have $10,000 and a less payment and not paying 23% interest.

Yeah, what's your payment?

What does that free up to attack that $3,000?

If you didn't have the car payment, what's the car payment?

My car payment currently,

like for the car I have right now, my car payment is $4.61 a month.

Okay.

That gets you your baby step one in two months, just if you free up that car payment without doing any other changes to your life.

Yeah.

And I would be working as much overtime as you can, as much door dash and side hustles as you can, and see, is there room to grow in this agriculture field?

Because it kind of worries me that like if this is the top, we got to find something else.

Average, I mean, household is around $67,000, just to kind of give you a ballpark.

So you, you know, $40,000, I mean, yeah, you're kind of under, you're under that.

So I just wonder what else is out there for you from your, from a primary income perspective, how to get that up.

There is room to grow, and I do get a 3% raise every year.

That's going to take a while.

to get to 50, 60, because what we're looking at is the next five years, not just to get out of this debt.

And so I'm looking for your future, Sean, to go, how can Sean build some wealth?

How can Sean become a homeowner one day and have money to invest on top of just surviving and covering the bills?

And right now, you're in that paycheck-to-paycheck survival cycle.

Yeah.

So, Sean, I think if we woke up in your shoes, we would probably go get like a $10,000 loan from the credit union, sell the car, pay off the difference, take some of that money and go and buy a crappy car,

keep your $500 payments, and find the margin through the income perspective to get that $1,000.

I'd make it a goal.

Do it in the next four weeks.

Find $1,000 in four weeks, selling stuff, whatever you got to do.

And then start attacking that $3,000 debt because you'll get that paid off.

I think you're going to start feeling some momentum, but there's got to be a real big sense of urgency on your end.

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Up next, we have

Corinne.

Corinne.

Corinne from Little Rock, Arkansas.

Hi, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Yes, absolutely.

Thanks for calling in.

How can we help?

So I wrote this out.

So here we go.

It's not long.

I just didn't want to get it wrong.

All right.

So I'm a stay-at-home mom.

I'm a stay-at-home mom with two kiddos.

I've just started homeschooling this year.

And my husband works at a pastor, as a pastor at a church.

And he currently does not make enough money for a family to live off of.

And so how do I navigate a conversation about looking for a new job all while trying to make sure that we are following God's plan for my husband's call and ministry?

Interesting.

What's he making?

$58,000 a year.

Okay.

So we're not like poverty level here.

I thought he was like a youth pastor making, you know, $30,000 and it was a struggle.

But $58,000, do you guys have debt?

We have only about like $4,000, $5,000 in debt, $2,000 on our car.

And then we had to borrow money from my father-in-law, $2,500.

I actually picked up a contract job to kind of help pay off that debt.

But it's causing a lot of stress with just balancing homemaking, homeschooling, you know, all the different levels of being a mom.

So anyway, I don't want to do that long term.

It's definitely helpful in the meantime, but it's not like the vision that we had for a family.

How much would you say

in your monthly budget, if you had X amount more per month, would make you feel like have some breathing room and a little bit more comfortable?

I mean, even like

$1,000 to $2,000 extra.

Yeah.

Because when I was before

doing this contract work, but I've only done it for three months,

we were doing food banks and stuff.

So

we're at that level.

And that sounds crazy because you're like, you know, not $30,000.

It is almost twice as much as that.

But

it's just...

Do you guys have a pretty detailed budget, would you say, on what you spend on

groceries and gas?

And like, I mean, do y'all, is it pretty laid out that you guys have boundaries around categories and what you're spending?

Yes.

Okay.

Definitely.

And what's your mortgage?

Our mortgage is $2,000.

So it's about half of our income.

Okay.

That explains a lot of it.

Probably a lot of it, honestly.

That's where that extra thousand dollars

that you're looking for, that you need breathing room, is tied up in the mortgage payment.

Yeah, how much do you guys have left on the house?

Oh, we just moved here

to the area last year.

So we're house broke, kind of like scrambled to move here for this job because we felt like that's what God was calling us to do.

Okay.

Bought the house, out of budget.

And so that's kind of now we're like, yeah, now what, you know, kind of the situation.

For sure.

Yeah.

I mean, from, I mean, does the church, if you talk to him, is, is he,

I mean, I hate to just say, like, go get a raise from your church.

Yeah.

But has he talked to his leadership?

Yeah, is there an elder board?

Is there anyone that he's going to that knows, or does he even know that you feel this way?

Yeah, we know definitely he knows.

The church is

not as healthy as it should be.

And so the conversation he has had has kind of been like, check back in in six months.

Let's check back in, you know, the new fiscal year to see what we can, how we can do anything.

Yeah.

What would he be doing if he wasn't a pastor?

If he went and go went and got a different job?

I don't know.

He's been a pastor his entire and it's a worship pastor, so it's not like a lead pastor, but he's been one his entire adult life.

That's how I met him as a pastor and had kids all doing.

How old are you guys?

34.

Okay.

Okay.

Here's my take.

It might be a fallacy that he's going to go out and get a job paying more than 60 doing something else tomorrow.

Like that might be a pipe dream right now.

And so what I've seen, and this is pastors in my life, you know, I was a part of a church plant and the pastor was bivocational.

And so he did handyman work and woodworking and started an Etsy store on top of his pastoral duties.

So, I think he needs to start doing that on the side, and maybe that thing turns full-time, and maybe God blesses him at the church, and things get healthier, and he gets a raise there.

But at least then, we kind of have a better clue as to what the next step is.

Is he open to doing side work?

Um, I don't know, we've never talked about it before.

Does he go in

40 hours a week to the church?

Oh, yeah, or more or more.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

And I wonder his responsibilities there.

I mean, they're paying him, I guess, you know, a full salary.

So I'm assuming that, yeah, there's stuff to be done and he has responsibilities there.

Yeah, I mean,

I mean, the biggest glaring thing to me, I hate to say current, is the house.

I just think you guys bought too much of a house.

If you stayed within that 25% range of your income, which is what we teach,

that would be,

you know,

$800, probably, yeah, $800 back into the paycheck of what you're looking at.

So either he makes a career shift, if he doesn't see an income going up

soon, right?

And the church, you know, again, I'm not making them the bad guy by any means, but it is what they have.

And that's what they have.

That's the salary that you guys took to come here.

But if you can't make that work as a family, then I think you guys do need to have a bigger conversation as a family.

And I think, you know, and I know you know this, but just encourage you, like service and doing work as a believer unto the Lord can look a thousand different ways.

And I know in ministry specifically, people can get very comfortable in that world.

It's the only world they've known.

So even to step out into something that's totally different kind of feels scary and all of that.

But, but again, that's your personal conviction of what you guys feel led to and called to.

But I,

it's, I don't know, it's hard for me to navigate it because I don't know you guys personally and what, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah,

we can't be like, well, how do you know that's God's calling if you say it we believe it you know what I mean and so there's a piece of this where we go well someone's got to sacrifice either you need to give up the dream of being a stay-at-home mom he needs to give up the dream of being a pastor because right

being stressed and broke that's not of the Lord I think we can all at least agree on that like that's not a good future

where we're going to thrive and so it's going to need to be some give and take here and it might be some of it temporary the side jobs to just clean up the debt get a good emergency fund then reassess where we're at and can we still accomplish all of our goals, cover the bills, invest for the future?

If we can, then great.

I have a feeling, though, we're going to need to see some income shift if we're going to keep up our current lifestyle and keep the house.

How old are the kids?

Four and six.

Four and six.

Okay.

So they would be starting kindergarten next year and second grade,

I guess.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so that's, and that's the hard thing about in today's world.

And a lot of people that call in, you know, are in a very similar boat, Corinne, where, you know, you have these, you have, you have your, your wish list of what you want life to look like.

You want to be a stay-at-home mom.

You want to homeschool.

Your husband wants to do ministry.

You want to live in this house.

You want to, you know, this is the wish list of life that you start to live out.

And then you realize, oh, gosh, but there is a reality.

And this is not.

This is not negative of what God's will is.

There's a reality of living in 2025 that the numbers have to work.

You know, you just, it is what it is.

So something on that list, the prioritization of what you guys value is going to have to shift.

So I don't know if that's sending kids to school and you get a part-time job and you make 20 grand a year and it softens everything and you guys, you know, get to do that.

I don't know if that is him shifting career.

I don't know what that looks like, but that's the value system that you guys have to paint for your family and where you guys feel comfortable to figure out how to make this math work.

But

yeah, and yeah, the house, the house is hard for me.

It's just an immovable object unless we sell it and downsize.

And I don't know if you can rent in Little Rock with a family of four for way less.

Right.

So that's the other part of this.

It's just hard.

I mean, the housing market's tough.

And so here's what I will do.

I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

I think it will unlock some things for your husband, maybe even for you, to figure out what are the things in the short term or long term we can be doing to create a more sustainable future for ourselves.

Yeah.

So hang on the line.

We'll gift you that.

And I hope he realizes that there might be more than this church job.

And maybe he can do ministry outside of that in the public or private sector.

Yeah, or on the side, like what you were saying.

You know what I mean?

How do we make the numbers work for our family?

What does that look like?

And I think saying, you know, the God's will,

his calling, that's a very subjective, I don't know, that's a very subjective card to play, and that's different for everyone.

But I do think you can do incredible work for the kingdom, and it doesn't have to be in the walls of the church.

Amen.

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All right, up next, we have Gabe in Kansas City.

Hi, Gabe.

Welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you guys?

We're doing great.

How can we help?

Yeah.

So how do I stop spending everything I make so I can start reaching financial goals for myself?

Oh, interesting.

What are you spending money on?

Well, honestly,

mostly DoorDash, but then just random stuff.

Like I always find a way, no matter how much money comes in the paycheck, to spend it all.

It's fair.

Love will find a way.

Have you thought about like deleting the DoorDash app and forcing yourself to go inside of a grocery store?

Yeah, well, I actually did.

I did that like two days ago.

And like you said, love will find a way.

It's just like a creeping addiction, you know?

So you see like the zucchini you bought three days ago and you're like, ah, DoorDash sounds better.

I'm re-downloading it.

Oh, yeah.

Like going back to an abusive ex to a zucchini why don't you at least say like

well we all aspirational grocery shop you know what i mean we're like you know what i'm gonna eat a zucchini i'm gonna eat a whole bag of spinach i saw a good instagram air fryer zucchini recipe i'm gonna add a thing of spinach well gay but here's the thing what are your financial goals because i think they have to be big enough and powerful enough to fuel your love of door dash to stop that Yeah, well, first is get a car, then after that, a house, and then after that, crack the million marks and net worth.

Love it.

Those are great goals.

Okay.

That's the American dream summed up.

What are you doing for a living right now?

Right now, it's not good.

I'm actually working for the master I feed.

I DoorDash a lot for my gosh.

Wait, what?

Well, no wonder it's easy because you're around it all the time on this Taco Bell site.

Wait, do you drive for DoorDash?

I'm okay myself to do it again.

Okay, you're not working for like DoorDash Corporate.

You're like a.

No, he's a DoorDasher.

He's

running around food for people.

yeah how old are you i'm 20.

okay you're 20 okay are you in school did you not go to college what happened yeah well i'm in school for business management right now

okay what do you want to do with that

well um ideally you know um

you get a short-term management job to kind of build up a nest egg and then go out on my own and

try my hand at the entrepreneurial.

I can't talk about it.

So, you want to work in management of something?

Like, is it retail?

Is it corporate?

Have you sort of drilled down into that to what you'd be most into?

Yeah, I'd be most into corporate, but obviously, if someone offers me a job paying more than DoorDash does, I'll take it at this point.

Okay, how much longer in school?

Yeah, when do you graduate?

I'm expecting next summer.

Okay.

Cash flowing it or are you going to debt?

I'm cash flowing it.

Great.

Do you have any debt?

I have $200 in credit cards.

Okay.

We got that.

It's good.

Okay, Gabe.

You know what?

I'm going to say, I'd say you're a typical 20-year-old guy.

I don't think there's anything wrong with you.

I think you need a little bit of motivation.

And I think when you're in school, you have a part-time job.

You know, you got to just float your expenses.

I mean, are you living at home?

What are you doing for rent and all of that?

Yeah, no, right now I'm living at home, which probably doesn't help the spending.

Yeah, well, it's fine.

I mean, you're in college.

I think that's totally appropriate.

So what do you have to pay for?

What are the things that you're responsible for?

Right now it's just my phone and gas.

Phone and gas.

Okay.

And what are you making every month?

Naturally, it varies, but it's usually about two grand a month.

Okay.

Okay.

Because if I'm you, I have very little motivation to even go work when my only two things I need to survive is covering a phone bill and gas.

And because you're a full-time college student.

So

you're in college,

which I don't think is bad.

Yeah, that's great.

You're in college.

You're doing well in your classes.

You're going to graduate on time.

So I think the best thing for you, Gabe, honestly, right now, is to work on your habits.

And you need to start creating some new financial routines.

And so you can do this.

You can even automate some of this.

I don't always recommend that for people because I kind of like people's behavior to change because they're actually the ones doing it.

But for you, I would almost say, yeah,

make it a goal where you save you know half of that maybe you save it what if you save a thousand dollars a month because how much does your phone and gas cost

not much it usually fakes out to around three four hundred okay so yeah what if you gave yourself six hundred bucks to spend on how you want and then save half of your income and you do that for the next golly six months you'd have six thousand dollars when you graduate that'll help you upgrade a car and actually start moving but but you can even go in and automate some of this.

Like you can, you know, set up some systems in place with online banking and that kind of thing.

That when your paycheck hits,

like pay yourself first.

Yeah, absolutely.

I'd be giving some too.

I think there's a practice of generosity in there.

Give, you know, how much you want, but even 200 bucks a month, practice that part, practice the saving part, and then you can still enjoy some of it.

So I think you're in a good spot.

I think it's just the habits and the routines month to month that you need to change.

And when you kind of get those in place, you start to be disciplined.

You start to know what you're doing.

You're telling your money what to do.

And then when you graduate and you get your first job, those habits just go in from a $2,000 a month to maybe a $5,000, $6,000 a month salary.

And, you know, you've changed the way that you handle your money.

Literally, your behavior changes.

Okay.

I was exactly like you, Gabe.

I'm looking back at when I was.

You were not that much of a spender.

No, but when I was living at home, I was working in the Apple store.

Yeah.

And every paycheck would just go to like gear and just spend.

I didn't

saving any of it.

Well, because there's no urgency.

Exactly.

So it made sense.

And so I just, I remember feeling that way, Gabe.

And what unlocked it for me was getting out of the house.

I moved across the country, started fresh, finished school.

And that sort of put a new pep in my step to go, listen, mom's not going to save you with her home-cooked meals.

Do you, I don't know if you're going to be able to do it.

You don't have to move out, though.

Do you call it?

No, I'm saying once he graduates, though, he has to just go ahead and find an actual job.

Don't stick around home saying, well, I could save up for a house faster.

And then all all of a sudden you spent 500 bucks on DoorDash.

Yes, that's right, that's right, yeah.

So, when you graduate, you need to move out.

That needs to be available.

Create some problems for yourself because we are wired to solve problems, and right now you just don't have many, which is not a bad thing.

But if you want to accomplish your financial goals, you kind of need to have some,

you know, some mojo.

Yeah, and right now it's hard to have that when mom is folding the laundry.

True,

uh, Gabe, what kind of car do you have right now?

Well, right now, I don't have anything.

I'm driving my dad's for DoorDash.

Oh.

Whoa.

How does he feel about that?

He feels fine about it because he does it part-time too.

So, you know,

he doesn't really mind.

Okay.

Well, I would make that a goal then.

I think that's a great you said that, but I would re yeah, I would reiterate, yeah, if you, and if you saved $1,000 a month, Gabe, I mean, you could have a $6,000 car in six months.

You know what I mean?

Like, it.

Do you have a high-yield savings account, Gabe?

Yeah, I do.

I'm shopping around for another one because I'm not a fan of the one I have.

Perfect.

We got just the one for you.

Go to fairwinds.org/slash Ramsey.

They just created a new bundle for our fans.

It's got a great high-yield savings account.

And so you can actually attach your checking and savings and then start to automate that thousand bucks a month.

Just go straight from checking into that high-yield savings.

And like Rachel said, if you automate that, you'll just pretend the thousand bucks never existed.

So pretend you make a thousand bucks a month and now we have to work live off of that.

That helped retrain my brain as well.

Okay.

Yeah, make sure to check that out.

And you'll get the Ramsey debit card with that bundle.

Oh, yeah.

And it says debt is normal, be weird.

You're not deeply in debt, Gabe, but at least you kind of get that reminder.

Yeah, every time you're in.

Especially as you enter adulthood, it's so easy to be tempted to take out the car loan, open the credit card, go into debt, take out the personal loan, whatever it is.

And so this will help you avoid that temptation.

Yep, for sure.

This is very natural.

You're 20.

You're not weird.

You're just 20.

Yep.

Just put some disciplines and new habits in place.

I think you're going to be fine.

But George Camel is a spender.

What can I say?

Left to my own devices.

Or to my home.

His mama camel cooking at home.

Unbelievable.

I'm spending every $16 an hour I make.

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Are you on track with the baby steps?

The baby steps are our seven steps for you to get control of your money, become debt-free, start building wealth, and changing your family tree.

Well, if you're curious where you are in that process, you can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you.

Simply head to the show notes and click the link titled, Are You on Track with the Baby Steps?

and complete the quiz.

Up next, we have Jennifer in Dallas, Texas.

Hi, Jennifer.

Hi, how are you?

We're doing great.

How can we help today?

Well, here is my situation.

I am 54 and my husband is 72, and we've been married 23 years.

We've had a pretty successful law firm for about the last 25 years together, but it's winding down now, and it's kind of to the point where neither of us are taking a salary anymore.

And anything that we generate is pretty much going back into the business to keep it afloat.

you know, make monthly payroll, which is about $20,000 a month generally.

And we have no debt, which is great, and we haven't for a long time.

We own our home and our law firm free and clear, but I find myself kind of in a weird situation being worried about the future for a couple of reasons.

And I will say, my husband is not, and I think it's probably because he's 20 years my senior, and I kind of feel like I'm in a different boat than him, even though we're in the same marriage.

I've never not had a paycheck or a salary in like my entire career as a lawyer or even before, And it makes me uncomfortable at this age in my life.

And number two is the way our estate is set up is he was married before me and he's got two adult children.

And as it currently stands, 50% of my wealth goes away to his adult children who are married to pretty wealthy guys.

So I find myself at 54 with a law firm that's winding down and not really making any money anymore and

really knowing what the future looks like.

And he's pretty unbothered.

And I'm not because he's like, I'm probably going to go first.

So, right.

He's like, You'll have to deal with the fall.

Oh, no.

Okay.

I know.

I keep trying to gently remind him of that.

And we've got assets of about 3 million investments in cash.

Our home is worth about $600,000.

Like I said, there's no mortgage.

We own our law firm.

It's probably worth about $750,000 to a million dollars.

So, from the outside looking in, people think we're in great shape, but there's just such a age disparity.

And

I just don't know what to do.

It stresses me out.

And he does come crazy.

What do you want to do?

If you snap your fingers today, what happens?

I don't really, I don't know.

That's a problem for me because this is my whole identity.

This is all I've ever known.

I've been a lawyer for 25 years.

So

you could still be a lawyer and sell the law firm, couldn't you?

You sell it for a million bucks.

You split it.

I don't know that I want to continue practicing law it would be nice not to have to work anymore but like i don't

you guys have retirement you said three million is your total nest egg including the house is that right no the house and the um law firm are separate are separate okay so what's the three million in

um stocks um

uh let's see 401ks yeah

but he's kind of controlled all that like i just i got married to him and let him just take over so um yeah another thing i probably wish i would have done differently.

Yeah.

So you guys need to be aligned, otherwise, you can't really make any moves, it sounds like.

He just thinks there's nothing to worry about.

And I'm yeah, because I guess the question is, say, let's just pretend you sell the law firm.

Say he passes away tomorrow.

Okay, we'll just like, sorry, not to be horrible.

No, I get it.

I get it.

You sell the law firm for a million.

You got 3 million.

That's 4 million.

Divide it in half.

2 million is going to the kids.

2 million is going to you.

So the question is, Jennifer, to you, if it was invested and you were able to get to that two million, you were able to live off of that and what it would bring

per year, could you do that?

I mean, that'd be what, 10%?

If you pulled 100 grand out a year, could you live off of that?

Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely.

I mean, we've always lived within our means, and I think that's why we've been able to stay out of debt unlike most of our friends.

And so I feel good about it.

I mean, we've done everything right.

I just feel, I mean, the world kind of looks scary to me now in a way that it didn't before.

Sure.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well, so I think from a, from a very basic numbers perspective, we know you're going to be okay with if something happened tomorrow.

Now the question is, nothing is going to happen probably tomorrow, knock on wood, but, you know, there's no diagnosis.

There's nothing like, you know, in the, in the urgent near future.

So the next question is, what is the next, to George's question, what he said earlier, you know, the next five to 10 years, what's ideal for you from a money perspective?

I think you would say, run some numbers and just be like, okay, you know, I think I'd feel more comfortable if there was 3 million that I, you know, if we could build it up to whatever, like maybe a numbers perspective, what that would make you feel even more peace from a, from a career standpoint, you're 54 is what you said.

And I don't know if you want to work for four more years and maybe you still, and you take a salary still and be like, yeah, it'd be great to be working for four more years.

I want to get paid for my work.

I'd love to.

And then we sell it in five years.

I don't know, like kind of just mapping out some some dreaming.

And it would be great if he would be involved in that too, right?

You can do it yourself, but it would also be fun to go to a nice dinner and get a bottle of wine and be like, hey, let's just dream for the next five to 10 years.

What do we want life to look like?

Because he's going to be 82

in 10 years.

And so between now and then.

He'll be old enough to run for president.

That'll be really fun.

Oh, God.

I would kill him first.

I killed.

He's pretty unbothered by all of this.

He's just like, I think you worry too much.

You'll be fine.

Okay, so that to me is, yeah, that's a breakdown in communication from him because he doesn't have to understand your fear, but he at least needs to empathize and hear it out and actually meet you in that.

Right.

And that's more of a relational marriage moment, not just a financial.

So there's two pieces to this, him respecting your feelings.

And then the other side is just the math of it all and what can we do.

For that part, have you guys worked with a financial advisor you trust to actually have a third-party unbiased just look at all of this?

He has had a bad experience with that in the past and has kind of just taken over doing it himself and he's been really good and we haven't had to pay anybody else but i've left it all to him so i feel a little bit in the dark number one and number two i just have an issue with

half of our money going away to adult kids and i know that's him and me you know what i mean i was just like they don't have anything to worry about they're in their 30s and early 40s i'm not yeah and i helped build this practice to where it is now they didn't do you guys guys have a will and trust that lays us all out?

And maybe you can make some adjustments with an estate attorney?

Yes, we do.

And we have made some adjustments to it.

Before it was like 30%, it was like a third, a third, a third, me and them both girls.

Well, why not you get half the law firm?

And the housekeeping thing is weird.

And if you're the one that built it, help to build it.

I don't know if the law firm and the house, but it's the cash and everything else that, you know, and cash is important to me.

If something happened to him tomorrow, I mean,

a law firm is only as good as someone's going to pay for it.

100%.

100%.

Do you guys have kids together?

Did y'all have kids together?

No, I don't have kids.

I'm a stepmom.

Okay.

Yeah, because, and again, under the blended family, people do it so many different ways.

It's more complicated for sure.

It is, but the natural progression because

you don't have kids yourselves is that it goes to you.

And then when you pass, it goes to the girls, right?

That would be the natural progress.

That's what I think it should be.

Yeah.

And to your point they're doing fine like if he passes at 82 they're going to be multi multi-millionaires by then not even needing this money how's your relationship with the girls great

wonderful but

it would be a problem i mean it i mean money i've just seen it it just tears people apart yeah no i've never expressed that i feel any sort of way about it i've just told him this is really unnecessary when i'm in a different age bracket and they both are married to very wealthy men they don't need the money does he does he he get this, like what you're saying to all of us with your amount of like passion and absoluteness, do you give that to him?

Does he see that side of you?

Oh, yeah.

Okay, okay.

She's like, probably more than what I'm doing.

Is he just hard-headed and stubborn and goes, nah, you're making a mountain out of a molehill?

Everything's fine.

1,000%, yeah.

Okay, he probably uses that term at 72.

I mean, yeah, I hate to say, Jifford, to me, that's a breakdown in marriage communication because you have a husband that you are legitimately, you're an intelligent woman that's communicating very clearly, and you are getting completely

pushed aside.

No, what do they call it?

Not ghosted.

You're getting.

What are they called?

Is there a word for that?

What do the kids say?

Where they're like, I'm not,

that didn't happen.

What do they call that?

Wow, you're showing your age now.

Get ready.

What are the kids saying?

Next, next segment, I'm going to remember the word, but that's what's happening to Jennifer, and that's a marriage breakdown.

Start with that first.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

I'm Rachel Cruz with George Camill, and we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Up next, we have Emma in Minneapolis.

Hi, Emma.

Welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you so much.

Absolutely.

How can we help today?

So, I am a senior in high school.

I'm freshly 18 years old.

And I got into my dream college, and I don't know how to tell my parents.

Wow.

I thought there was going to be something bad that happened, but this is good.

So give us the context of why this is bad news for your parents.

So my dream school for my whole life has been

University of Northwestern St.

Paul.

Hold on.

Since you were zero years old, you're like, this is on my dream Pinterest board.

Is that a private school?

Yes, it's private and Christian.

Yep.

How much is that tuition?

It's about $38,000 a year.

Okay.

Okay.

So what have you and your parents talked about when it comes to college?

So I've known for a very long time that my parents were not going to help us, were not going to help me with college.

I'm the oldest of six kids, and we live on just my dad's income.

Okay.

And

so they don't want me to go there because

they don't want me to go into student loan debt, which I understand.

Yeah.

100%.

But I haven't.

I think you have probably 99% of people listening to this saying, yep, we agree with your parents.

We

are.

And so you've not told them

because you're going to go and you're going to go take on essentially over four years $160,000

what I haven't told them is

what I haven't told them is that I got a partial ride scholarship oh well that's great okay so how much does that cover

um it covers about forty four thousand dollars over all four years

okay

so you're down to like you'll owe a hundred twenty or something what's the number

it's $11,000 a year for all four years.

So I'm down to like $105,000.

Okay.

And how much do you have saved?

I

actually do not have a savings account.

I have been

helping my parents with the bills and stuff.

I work for 10 years.

So they're struggling financially?

Yes.

Okay.

Oh, wow.

And you're working part-time and that money that you're working for is going to the household.

Yes.

Was this something you're doing out of kindness or was it like a, hey, if you're going to live under a roof, you got to help around because times are tough?

No, it's kindness.

Okay.

And they're, and they're, and they're, they're taking your money?

I mean, they're taking.

They,

so I contribute, I help pay for groceries and stuff.

And I am aware that some of the money that I'm paying them, they're putting in a savings account for me.

I just don't know how much that is.

So we can get some clarity on that.

We've got to know if it's $1,000 or $10,000.

I think

if my math is right, it should be around $8,000.

And what if it's zero?

What if they spent it all?

I don't know.

Yeah.

Well, I hate to say it.

I mean, I know there's, you know, people are in different circumstances financially, but asking an 18-year-old to help provide for the family, that's tough for me.

So I would hope that they just took the money and put it in a savings account, but I would ask them tonight because it is October.

And if you're a senior in high school, you know, you're starting to get early.

I mean, it's what you're doing.

You're getting college.

You're sent out college applications.

You're getting the letters in.

You're figuring out your next steps, and you do that around this time.

And so, for you, Emma, to know going into the next nine months of like what you have to work with and staying within that.

So,

I want to be really kind because I really appreciate the dream school.

I know that, you know, you've thought about it and all of it, but

there is a sign of maturity, Emma, that when you choose to live within your means, you don't get to do everything you want.

And that's a true sign of an adult.

And we talked to people on the show that are 45 that don't even grasp that.

And so I would implore you that your friends, Rachel and George, can tell you in the real world, when you go out to get a job, majority of people don't care what's on your diploma.

They really don't.

Some care that you have a four-year degree.

I mean, that's, I think, a great

thing to have, you know, so I think that's great.

But people don't care and they don't, you know, the name name of the school and all of that,

it is not usually a sign that you're going to be successful and get a job that's going to then carry you

throughout your adulthood.

And going $120,000 or $105,000,

I think it's a little bit, I think it's going to end up being a little bit more than that after room and board and everything.

What are you studying?

I was planning on double majoring in pastoral ministry and communications.

Emma.

Emma, we just talked to a worship pastor who's making $53,000 to $58,000 a year.

And he's been doing all this.

It would take

it like seven to eight years to pay this off.

No.

No.

Please.

Please.

Please, no.

What do you want to do on the other side of this?

Tell me the job.

If I could just do this job, it would be a dream.

Summer camp director.

Okay.

Love it.

I love the clarity there.

Here's the good news.

I don't think you need a communication degree or even a pastoral studies degree to be a summer camp director.

You know what you need?

Experience at a summer camp where you work your way to the city.

That you can do for free.

That you can do for free.

So this is actually great news.

This gives me so much hope for you that we can avoid a crisis.

Because here's what, let me play this out.

And you can go watch the Borrowed Future documentary we did on the student loan crisis.

I think it'll help you understand some of what we're talking about.

My fear for you is that you can never be a summer camp director because there is no summer camp director job that pays enough to cover the payments on the student loans that you end up taking out.

So you're going to have to go get a job.

You're going to have to end up being, you know, an administrative assistant or something.

I mean, which is not bad, but you're not going to get to do what you want to do in life because you're going to have bills to pay for years, for years and years and years and years for a Christian private education that you didn't need.

You don't.

You don't need it.

Now, would it be a great time going to the school?

I think so.

But is it worth $120,000 for the price to have this experience?

I don't think it is at this point.

Now, if you had a full ride and you were like, I just want to do this for fun, I'd go, good for you.

Go for it.

But I just, I, I got into my dream school, Emma, when I was 18, and it was 50 grand a year for four years and going to a film school.

And I said, I don't think I can stomach 200 grand in student loan debt to maybe be a film director one day.

And I think that was the Lord saying, please don't do this, young man.

Yeah, because your future is going to be the right way.

Every time debt is mentioned, it's in a negative fashion.

Now, it's not a sin.

If you end up going, you're going to get to heaven with student loans.

You're fine, right?

It's not a sin.

But every time it's mentioned, it is negative.

It's a curse.

You are a slave to the lender.

It is not wise.

Go read Proverbs.

Go read Proverbs.

What God has set before you.

And before you make this mistake, Emma, please listen to your parents.

They're giving you good wisdom and figure out how much is in that account.

Because I think you could go to a community college even for a little bit if you need to.

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Up next, we have, I think it's G in Los Angeles.

Is it G?

Yeah, that's G.

Thank you so much for taking my call.

Yeah, absolutely.

How can we help today?

Well, I did want some advice speaking on behalf of my father i i wanted to know what it takes to start that conversation of retirement for him um i'm 31 years old and uh he's uh i'm 65 67 years old now and he's been a long-haul truck driver for almost 40 years now oh it's hard work

No, he's been working very, very hard.

I think maybe three or four days out of the month, I've seen him my whole entire life.

Oh, my gosh.

Wow.

Yeah, no,

he's worked very hard for what he's done.

But

as a long-haul truck driver, a lot of it is paycheck to paycheck work.

But what he's done very well for himself is live life a little bit frugally and understand what it took for him.

And what he did

was buy some farms in Central California that have all been paid off now and stuff.

And I'm just kind of looking for a way to start that conversation with him.

Wow.

Does he want to retire?

Yeah, that's one of the bigger caveats about this.

He is a workhorse, and as a matter of fact, he just came back from New York today all the way back to Central California, and he already picked up a load for Friday to take off.

Wow.

So is he the kind of guy, is he like a Dave Ramsey?

He's just going to work until he's no longer

retired.

Absolutely.

That is his demeanor, and that's something I've never got him in his way of.

But here's the thing about long-haul truck drivers.

It's kind of hard on the sons because it is a huge,

it's normal for a son having to get a call somewhere and fly to a different state in the U.S.

and have to find out that something happened to their father on the road.

And they are

dangerous.

And that's one of my largest fears.

And he's in great health.

He's not.

He's not the

quit while you're ahead situation.

And you're wanting him to just quit and retire.

And he has the assets and resources to do so based on these farms that are creating income.

So that's kind of the confusion on my end too.

I'm just trying to figure out how we can use all the work that he's done.

And yet over the past 40 years, we've accumulated over 110 acres, me and him together.

And there are four different properties.

We have different houses on each property that also give us rental income.

Albeit those houses are humble homes.

They're in migrant homes and they're surrounded by farms too.

So they give us a little bit of income, but we don't really rely on it.

And then since he's been driving truck, we've been leasing out our farms ever since.

That gets our property taxes taken care of pretty much at the end of the year and other expenses.

So if he quit today doing the truck stuff, how much income would he bring in from all these other sources?

So we get about $8,000 a month.

And you're saying we, are y'all 50-50 in this?

Like you've put in 50%, he's put in 50%, or has he put in more?

No, no, it's all his, but we do handle everything as kind of like as a family, but he's the boss at the end of the day.

So I should correct myself and say he does.

Your name isn't on any of these properties.

No, actually, I've put it in, well, he's put it in a trust

since then that he's the executor of.

He bought these farms under his father's name, but I've passed away.

Okay, so it's all under his control.

And are you working outside of all this full-time?

Correct.

Yes.

So I kind of moved out of it and i moved to southern california and i'm an engineer here okay so you have your own life you're owning so the 8 000 per month is what he would live on then if he did retire

more or less correct okay okay and that's enough to cover his bills it sounds like being a frugal guy does he have a home yeah is he debt-free is his home debt-free paid off so all the homes and farms are all debt-free um so he's bought all of these homes and farms that are very uh what about his home his primary home is it paid off everything is paid off okay good that's amazing

yeah all of the properties together come out to about six million in in in value oh wow

so he could retire tomorrow

then your real question is how do i convince him to stop working so hard

oh yeah that's part of the yeah that's part of the issue and the finances

ask him yeah and should i even ask him because another fear of mine is what happens to a gentleman when he does retire they slow down yeah and i do wonder too Gee, if there's, if you guys can

work, and I don't know what this would look like, it probably would getting, getting a third opinion, a financial advisor, but if you have $6 million worth of something, but you're only making $8,000 a month,

man, I mean, you could be making $600,000 a month, or I'm sorry, a year versus.

You could see a better return on that.

Yeah, the return is not great.

And again,

I'm speaking just from a numbers perspective, not like a legacy thing that you guys love the land or whatever it may be.

But there may be a move that you guys sell to, you know, half of this, 3 million in real estate, 3 million in the market.

And he's, you know, living off, I don't know, 300,000 a year is what he could be.

He doesn't need that, I'm sure.

But

if you just put this in a high-end savings account, $3 million, it could spit off over $100,000 a year.

Yeah, so I just wonder if there's a way to

bring more money to you guys with this investment because it is worth so much.

But again, you may, y'all may not want to do that, but that's one thing to be thinking about.

And maybe to diversify.

You know, it's great to have real estate and farm, but you may want to have some in investments too, just to hedge your bets.

And my first solution was, hey, like, why don't we start farming the farms again and stop leasing them out to tenant farmers that we've been doing for so long?

And, but

he's had one different, you know, business adventure long time in the past, and he's never done that again.

And ever since then, he worked to pay off these farms.

So he got burned one time, and now he's got a bad taste taste in it.

Never,

ever again.

And then you did bring up a good point, too.

It is a legacy thing for, you know, the son to sell off the farms or something like that.

It's just completely like,

how would I say?

It's too sentimental.

Right, right.

And that's not something, yeah, especially in our culture.

We don't.

What is your culture?

Can I ask?

What's the background here?

I'm a a North Indian Punjabi.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

I gotcha.

We also yeah, we also have farms and property in India as well, but those are completely different.

Okay.

Cool.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

That makes sense.

So I would like to find a way to keep the farms.

I mean, use the value and the equity that he's built up some type of way with

since buying these farms and

be able to live off of that or give him some type of

good,

I guess,

presentation of, hey, this is what it looks like, and it's super secure, and this is how you would live without having to.

Has he ever listened to you?

And I mean that respectfully.

Like, has he actually taken any of your advice and went, yeah, I'll do that?

Absolutely not.

I actually did with one of the farms myself, like a 1031c with one farm, and I split it into two, which we which now consists of the two properties that are in the trust.

And he didn't speak to me for maybe a year and a half, two years until he started.

So underneath all that,

that's what's hard.

I don't think you have, you're in a position to influence, you know, him retiring.

That's just the hard facts.

It's just like you can do all you want to do to have a dad in your life and have him retire and be healthy.

And he's a grown man.

And it's such a hard belief.

I think it's human nature to think, okay, I'm going to go into this important conversation for this other person because you're wanting the other person to make a different decision than what they're making.

And you're, and there's a, and it's a belief that I've kind of, I kind of feel like is a lie of like, if I just say it the right way,

if I present it the right way, it's going to click and it's going to click.

And I just, I don't know, maybe I'm cynical, but I know for myself, I'm like, you just have to get to this point in life where like, I just, I cannot control other people.

Like I can't.

And maybe I can try one great conversation, but you're not going to change his mind.

You're not.

And so for your own peace of mind, Gee, if you want to do this and present something to him, for yourself to have peace to say, okay, at least I gave it my best shot, you can for you, but you got to go into that conversation with zero expectation that he is going to change.

You would have that conversation more for yourself as a 30 or one year old son than for to believe that you're somehow going to convince him because it's just,

yeah, if you don't want to change, if he's not curious or interested, it's not going to happen.

So here's the headline.

This is the old quote, a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

And that's just, he's 65, this is all he knows.

He's not interested in your opinion, unfortunately.

And he's done great so far.

I think, like you're saying, you see that there's potential that he could be doing more, but nothing's on fire here.

But again, as a son, if you feel like I just have to say this for my own peace of mind, you can present him with something.

But I would just continue to nurture that relationship and congratulate him on the work that he's done.

You're a good son, man.

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When it comes to wills, George, especially online wills, there's a lot of questions around this.

One question that we get all the time is, how do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for an online will?

So, usually, if your estate is worth less than a million dollars, an online will will be a great option for you.

Another question we get is, what do I need to do to start my online will?

And when you're going to do it, you're going to have to figure out some questions and answer some for yourself, like who's going to get my stuff when I pass?

Who's going to take care of my children if they're minors?

Who do you want making decisions for you if you're incapacitated?

Also, we get the question, is an online will legally valid?

And yes, it is.

But you have to make sure it's valid in your state.

So a lot of wills are state-specific.

So make sure that's the key for you.

And then lastly is, why would I want an online will versus a traditional one made by a lawyer?

So, they're usually more convenient, they're less expensive, it takes less time to set up.

And so, again, if you

have is worth less than a million dollars, an online will is a great place to go.

And if you want to know more about this and your specific situation, you can go to ramseysolutions.com/slash wills and you can take a quiz online to find out which will is best for you.

Up next, we have Sarah in in Cleveland, Ohio.

Hi, Sarah.

Welcome to the show.

Hi.

Hello, hello.

How can we help today?

So my husband and I were both physicians in surgical specialties.

He's an only child.

He has immigrant parents, and apparently he had promised them when he was young to support them once he graduates.

And they bought a $1.2 million home a couple months ago, and they've been guilting him into fully paying their mortgage and expecting more money sooner.

Wow.

So this was like carte blanche, blank check, richie rich.

We're going to do whatever we want and you're going to fund it.

Was that the agreement when he was four years old?

So

when he was young, he's like, he's 12.

He's like, I'll take care of you.

Like, good.

Yeah, exactly.

And I'm living it up.

You guys brought me here and, you know, I want to give back to you.

But as he got older, he realized like, you know, life costs money and he doesn't want to give it all away.

But they called after and they're like, well, you promised, you know, you better give us this money.

And so he did, you know, and obviously feels horrible about the way it went down.

He wanted to gift it, not feel forced into it.

And I just think, like, financially, this doesn't make sense for us.

We have three young kids.

We live in a 1,500 square feet, you know, $300,000

home.

So we're living very modestly.

They drive luxury cars.

His mother has never held a job in her life.

So she's been a stay-at-home wife for the last 18 years.

And I just, I feel like we're being blackmailed by his parents.

Yeah.

Did you say they're immigrants?

They came in?

Yes.

Where are they from originally?

They're from Korea.

Okay.

Okay.

And there's just an expectation that, hey, we raised you, we gave you this great life, and now the tables are turning.

You take care of us.

Are they in a place at all, Sarah, to

live this lifestyle themselves?

Have they saved and have they been successful?

So his father's been in and out of jobs, but I think they do relatively well.

I mean, they've been able to fund, you know, luxury cars until now.

We don't have information about their finances.

And my thoughts are if we're going to be funding you, I'd like to know what's going on with your finances if I'm expected to take all of those once you, once his dad retires in a year or two.

Yeah, I mean, for sure.

Well, this is causing a rift in your own marriage because you're clearly getting resentful of your own husband for letting this all happen and you not having a say in what happens with y'all's money.

Right.

You need to talk to him about it.

I'd be like, hey, we need to put a stop to this.

You need to talk to your parents.

Yeah.

We need to have boundaries around this.

Yeah, the main issue is that he made this decision and gave them the money before talking to me.

So he's just been sending it out.

How much money

are we talking here?

So he's sending them $6,000 a month

and his plan is to eventually give them $12,000.

Good gracious.

A month.

How much do you guys make a month?

Like, like out of like what comes into our.

That's our take-home pay.

Yeah.

Our take-home pay monthly is like $46,000.

Okay.

And so he's giving a 13% parent tax every month to support us.

But we both have

like,

yeah.

$46 a month is what you're making?

$46,000 a month.

Yeah, he's a neurosurgeon.

So he makes a decent salary, but we both have incredibly high med school debt.

How much do you have left in debt?

We have all of it.

We're hoping for the 10-year repayment, but who knows?

So we each are like about 30, 340 each.

So 340 each.

Okay.

Each.

Yes.

Because his parents didn't help him.

I come from very simple means.

My parents are,

you know, don't have a lot of money at all, which is another kind of sore point.

Why are we giving your parents who live a decent life all this money?

And my parents are living like, you know, paycheck to paycheck and have never requested requested a penny, you know, and are certainly haven't given them.

Yeah.

And I've supported us for the last three years as an attending physician while he finished training.

And we used all of my money to pay all of our bills, to, you know, fund our lifestyle, to even gift money away.

I haven't been able to gift my parents any money that I'd love to, but now we're handing out, you know.

Well, the main issue here is you guys are not united on your financial goals, even the values of the family, and he's been doing things behind your back.

So there's first a marriage issue.

And then once we deal with that, we can then deal with, he can deal with the parents.

But you getting in the middle of talking to the in-laws, I don't think that's going to work out.

Right.

And so he needs to have a hard conversation probably over a long period of time.

I don't know if it's going to happen overnight, that he just cuts them off.

But I think there needs to be like a, hey, we can't do this.

We have our own debts to pay.

We have our own kids we're trying to raise.

We don't want to put this on our kids to have to fund our life because we're broke because we gave it all to you guys.

And we're going to need to do this for a season.

Sarah, yeah, you and your husband, you guys really need to sit down and paint a picture of what you want your life to look like in the next five to ten years.

You know, you guys want to be, I'm sure, get the student loans paid off.

Um,

you want, you know, that's a goal that you're going to have.

You, you want a goal to, I don't know, pay off the house.

Like, I don't know, like you, you're a nuclear family.

You and your husband very tactically need to start creating some goals of what you're shooting for because you're making obviously an incredible income.

So you don't want it just to like disappear, you know, whether it's going to the in-laws or not.

And you want it to go as far as possible because there is major

things that you can do in your life with this income.

And one of those could be, I'm just saying with an asterisk, could be

giving, you know, being generous and giving some away to whoever, fill in the blank, right?

But, but you don't even know where the money's going, what's happening, because you and your husband are not united.

And so you guys need to unite as a household.

This is what we're doing with money.

And in that conversation is, again, which I'm sure you have expressed to him.

your disdain and how pissed you are that all of this is happening and it makes no sense.

It's not logical.

It's unfair to take a 23-year-old son's word and hold it over his head for the rest of his life and their life.

Like none of this is logical.

So let's just say it out loud and we need to get on the same page.

And then from there, as a united front, then that's when he needs to go and talk to his parents.

But I think that's the second issue.

I think the first issue is you guys are just fractured all over the place, you know?

Well, we did have a very intense, like serious conversation, and his take was, well, we'll just give your parents money too.

So I think I guess it's our goals are not aligned.

Like, right?

He's not looking to save big.

He's looking to give out all of our money.

Yeah, and that's, yeah, and that's not okay with you.

And you're part of the household.

So your voice is just as important

as his.

So how is he just giving them money?

Do you, does he have have a checking account that his money goes into?

We put half of our money, half of our paychecks go into our joint account and half of it is in our own personal.

Yeah.

So he was just sending it directly from right person.

So that's a breakdown.

Do you know what I'm saying?

Everything needs to go into one account.

Y'all need to close your separate accounts.

You guys need one account that you're functioning out of so that you are a united front.

And this is the fracture that happens when couples, you know, start to separate finances because it's quote unquote, his money is what he believes.

And he's emotionally believing that because emotionally it is his money.

It's in a different account.

Your name's not on it.

And so what that does, it starts to break down the relationship.

And that's what we're seeing right now.

And so

that probably will make him feel very uncomfortable, that piece of advice to be united.

But I think it's a deeper goal for your marriage.

Do you know what I mean?

Like the health of that is really important.

And then out of the health of the marriage, we can make these big,

you know, decisions that are going to create conflict with family, but at least we're doing it united.

And so let the money goals be the the villain instead of you.

And say, hey, we have big money goals we're trying to achieve.

We got to pay off all this debt.

We're not going to wait 10 years.

We're going to do 18 months.

Well, now of a sudden you don't have the money to give them, do you?

Yeah, because it's all going to student loans.

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Today's question comes from Hayden in California.

I'm getting married soon, and my relatives who can't attend the wedding have asked for my Venmo info to send a monetary wedding present.

I know that these relatives are in a lot of debt, and I've tried to encourage them to work the baby steps.

Is it appropriate to accept a gift from someone who is deep in student loan and other debt, or should I decline the gift?

It feels wrong to allow someone to send money when I know they can't afford to come to the wedding.

And it also feels wrong to take money from someone who doesn't have financial peace.

What should I do?

My gosh, what a pure heart.

So it is.

My answer is simple.

You take the money because it's none of your business.

It's just, you know, you don't block a blessing.

Someone wants to give.

It's more shaming.

It's so shaming to be like, I can't accept this gift because you are so broke.

Are you so broke?

You should be embarrassed.

Just, it's up to them.

I agree.

I know.

I think you just smile and say thank you.

And yeah, you take it.

I mean, I have people in my life who are overly generous who I'm like, they need financial help.

Why are they being generous?

And I learned to just let go.

Yes.

Because it was me drinking a poison.

They're joyful.

They're having a great time.

Let them figure it out.

And if they need help, I'm here for them.

Yes.

They know that.

That's good.

But that's, I think, a sign of growth and maturity when you learn to not feel like you need to intervene.

Yes.

And I think a level of like.

a lot of gratitude is beautiful too.

Cause when people give a gift and or if you give a gift, right, and it's a really nice one and someone's like, No, no, no, it's too much, you're like, No, but I want, I chose to do this, so like, I would be more excited if the reaction was like, Oh my gosh, this is amazing!

Thank you so much.

So, be grateful, just be grateful, and like George says, none of your business.

And I don't know, like, looking back at my wedding gifts, I don't know the financial situation of everybody who attended and what they spent, and could they afford it?

And did they put it on a credit card to go on the flight to come to the wedding?

Totally, totally.

I don't know.

That's only God knows.

Only God knows.

God knows the heart.

It's a good question, though.

Next, we have Brianna in Grand Rapids.

Hi, welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for having me.

I'm so excited to finally get through.

Oh, we're glad you called.

How can we help today?

Okay, so I am a newly single mom.

I'm planning to buy a salon business that's in a

leased space.

It currently has six booth renters.

I have the cash to buy it outright, but I'm wondering if I should use my savings or finance part of it to keep some cash on hand.

Okay.

Financially, where are you at?

How much debt do you have?

Consumer debt.

I have about $12,000 in student loans.

Okay.

And I am leasing the car, which I kind of got put into that.

But yeah, that's about it.

Okay.

And how much is in savings?

I have about $160,000.

$160,000 in savings.

And how much is the business going to be worth?

Or how much would you buy it for?

We agreed to $50,000.

$50,000?

Yes.

What exactly do you own for the $50,000?

I'm sorry, what was that?

What does the $50,000 get you?

Okay, so worth,

because it's a booth rent salon,

that is the current revenue that she's making off of the booth renters and retail?

Is that per

year?

Year.

Okay.

So it's costing you one year of leases to buy the business.

Yes, that is what we agreed on.

That seems reasonable.

Okay.

Does it seem too good to be true?

Is there something you feel like is not there or she's not telling you?

No, no, I feel really great about it.

I'm very fortunate.

And I do work in the business.

You know, it's been established for about six years.

It's in a great location.

Again, I I have a great

reputation and relationship with the other renters.

So

will you be in charge?

And exactly what I need.

And if one renter decides to leave, are you in charge of filling that spot?

Yes, everything would be on my hands if

they all decide to turn around and leave.

Yeah.

Do you feel

competent to do that?

Like, do you know this world and you have connections?

You could probably figure out how to find somebody to lease out that remaining booth if someone were to leave I do yeah

I feel really good about it overall I think what really is getting me a little

scared is the financial piece of it right I have the money in my savings I've just spent saving saving I wanted to buy a house this year but sadly on my income as a self-employed person it's a lot harder than I thought because I wasn't showing a lot of my income.

So

I am renting.

Obviously, I would love to buy a home one day.

I'm hoping to do so with adding income, you know, this salon business income into my income.

But

if you're a third on if you did take this on, how much would you make in what you're doing now plus owning it?

How much would you bring in a year?

I would say close to 100K.

Okay.

So you make 50 on your own, you get 50 from the leases, you're up to a six-figure salary, and then you can, one year in, you'll get your money back essentially if everything goes perfectly,

right?

So you're two, it's pure.

Sounds amazing.

And I honestly thought that you were going to say, I have $160,000 in savings and it's going to cost $160,000.

And I was going to give you a different answer.

But the fact that it's $50,000, you'll still have $110,000.

And then when you pay off your student loans, which I want you to do, you'll have $98,000 in savings.

I would take part of that $98,000 and I would get a six-month emergency fund as a single mom, and you're starting this new business.

I would put six months of expenses aside in a totally separate high-yield savings account.

You can open up one with like Fair One's Credit Union.

They're amazing, but I would just put it in a totally different spot.

And then whatever you have remaining, I personally would start working to use that for my down payment that maybe I'm going to have in the next two to three years.

Okay.

And the other thing, the other piece of the puzzle is this leased car.

You may want to look at the buyout amount.

And if it's, you know, if it's way less than half your income and you love the car, I would just buy it out outright and not deal with this lease anymore.

Yeah.

Okay.

It's going to, you know, stop the bleeding as soon as possible to get out of that lease versus hanging on to it until it's done and then owning nothing at the end of it.

Yeah.

And can I just say well done?

Yeah.

To have $160,000 just saved up on the side.

I mean, seriously, incredible.

You're a hard worker.

You know what you're doing.

I think this, it sounds from what you've presented to us like a great opportunity.

And it makes sense.

You have the money.

It's not wiping out your savings or anything.

The risk feels low.

You're not riding on the edge.

Yeah, no.

You still got some cushion there.

Yeah, it sounds good.

So that's so great.

All right, real quick, let's go to Mason in Colorado Springs.

Hey, Mason, get right to your question.

All right.

Hey, guys.

So my question is, so I'm going through a divorce right now.

Oh, sorry.

I forgot about.

No, it's actually

the best divorce.

We're still like really good friends.

We talk all the time.

It's just,

it didn't work out but okay so I got about fifteen thousand in debt from the divorce

and then I have ten thousand dollars of my own or like nine thousand so five thousand of that is in student loans and sadly the other four thousand is in collections so my question is gonna be what do I start paying off first do I start paying off the collections then the student or pay off my ex like I'm trying to figure out well what to start with for the baby step yeah did you say so you said $5,000 in student loans, $4,000 in collections, and how much was for the divorce?

$15,000?

$15,000.

Okay.

Okay.

What's the agreement for the divorce as far as this payout?

Is it like payment per month?

Is it a whole amount you need to have at the, you know, when the divorce is over?

No,

just per month.

Just per month, like I said, it's a really, I guess you want to call it clean divorce.

It's really good.

So is it like $1,000 per month for 15 months?

What was the agreement?

It's about $9.87 is the total per month so and that's just minimums that i have to pay her uh until it's paid off but we it we have agreed that if i pay off my portion first that's totally fine too okay mason what's in the collections is it credit cards

yeah two credit cards okay and then like a personal loan okay what i would do is i would call the collections um

agency or you know they're and you can probably talk them down four thousand i bet you could get pennies on the dollar for it.

Maybe $1,000 or $10,000

to settle in full.

Settle it, get it in writing, get it settled.

Yep, and I would just work down the, I would work down the debt snowball.

So I would do the collections, I would do the student loans, and then that $1,000 a month, be paying that, stay current on it, and then when you get to that $15,000, put as much as you can to get out of that divorce debt as fast as possible.

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution.

To get different results, you have to do something different.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

I'm Rachel Cruz, hosting this next hour with George Camill, my co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour.

And we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Up next, we have Jackie in Cincinnati.

Hi, Jackie.

Welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you for taking my call.

I'm in a situation where my husband is threatening to remove me from all the accounts, the credit cards, and threaten to leave me with zero.

He's been pretty verbally, emotionally, and financially abusive, and then last night crossed over into physical abuse and he was arrested.

But I'm wondering, my question is how to protect myself.

He's a finance guy and he's really really interested in laughing his way of knowledge against my ignorance and taking full advantage and putting me in a place of when he says I'll need to go prostitute myself in order to have money, which is terribly sick.

So

I'm just wondering what to do from here.

Oh my gosh.

Okay, so are you safe right now?

I am safe right now.

He just walked in from jail, so I'm sitting in my car.

But he is the full breadwinner right now.

Our kids are now in college.

I'm going to be heading back to work.

But right now he's a sole breadwinner.

Okay.

And you'll be loggering up, I'm assuming, I mean, divorce is happening.

I know it sounds terribly foolish, but I told him I don't want a broken home.

I don't want broken hearts.

I don't want a separate house, splitting belongings.

I don't want to miss any time with my kids.

But Jackie, he has opted out of this marriage in every way, shape, and form.

Jackie, you're not, yeah, this is not a marriage anymore.

Correct.

Correct.

Agreed.

Okay.

And your kids are, they are in college, and their mom is going to make a really brave, hard decision, but she's going to make a decision that is best for her.

I mean, Jackie, this is horrible.

It's terrible.

Yeah.

If you lose love, respect.

communication, trust, you don't have a marriage.

Safety.

Safety, Jackie.

Provision and protection.

I don't even know.

He just walked in from jail into the house that you both still live in?

Literally, when you guys picked up to take my call, he walked in and I had to run outside.

Can you drive away?

Like, I wouldn't be in the same vicinity as this guy.

I would go to a friend's house, a family member.

Do you have good friends and family around?

No, no, that's another thing.

I think he's shooken up because I've never taken action before, but when he shoved me last night into a door,

that was the first time that he took it to physical.

And I can't live with myself if I knew if I'm my kids were ever in that situation.

I had to do it.

I could not live with myself.

There's one thing we know about abusers.

They don't have a change of heart.

They're just going to continue it if you let it happen.

And so the fact that you're still there really scares me right now.

Well, I had, it was my choice to say he can come out and work because he's the only one with a job.

So he's under, you know, he has rules to not harass and things like that.

So well, the rules don't matter if he controls all the purse strings and you get zero dollars.

Yeah, Jackie.

That's what I'm worried about.

That's what I'm worried about.

So is your name on the accounts?

My name is on the accounts.

So for the credit card, I'm an authorized user, but he's the full.

Okay, your checking account where his income comes in, are you on that account?

Is joint, correct?

Perfect.

Okay.

If I were in your shoes, Jackie, I would take, I would be in that car, and when you get off the phone with us, I would drive to the bank and I would create a new checking account.

And I would take half of the money that is in that joint checking account and I would put it over to

your own checking account that he has zero access to.

And

I would have an amount of money and then I would drive to a hotel and I would get a room for the night.

And until I can get with friends and family, I mean, i i i don't see how it's never going to go back to normal and so what you've been living in is sadly i feel like is what we hear from a lot of victims of domestic violence is that you become almost used to it

and when you're sitting here telling us two strangers i mean george and i our mouths were just dropped open

because of just the insane situation that you're in.

And I don't feel like you, I don't feel like you see it.

And

you deserve better better than this, Jackie.

Oh, I know that.

I just don't want to break my kids' hearts.

I do.

Jackie, staying with a dangerous man is breaking their hearts.

And they don't know any of it.

Yeah.

Jackie,

would you want this for your daughter?

What would you tell your daughter right now?

Never.

Okay.

That was my question.

Okay.

That set them off.

Okay.

So, Jackie, answer your own question.

I figure someone's.

I think they're sharper than you think.

I think they're catching a lot of what's going on, and they're taking a lot of cues.

And right now, you have an opportunity to show them the kind of person you are.

And we do not promote divorce.

That is something that, I mean, it has to be to a point where there is of no return.

And everything you've just said in this call is that for me.

100%.

100%.

Would you be okay if your daughter was staying in a relationship this abusive?

Would you tell her to die?

Well, that's why I was saying, yes.

Yes.

So

you wouldn't want this for your daughter.

I don't want you to want this for yourself.

But you're right.

The financials, this is where we always say that we always are about combining finances, but the red flag goes up with a couple of different things.

If there's abuse, which check that off for your list, you know, if there's, if there's addiction that's not being addressed, if there's things that you need to protect yourself, you need a separate account for that.

Financial infidelity.

And that's the best way to do that.

And you can't control his spending.

What if he racks up a bunch of debt and your name is tied to that credit card?

Well, this is my second question.

He opened a separate bank account last year because his mother sends him thousands of dollars that he can gamble and buy,

alcohol, drugs, and all that.

And he plays with that money, and I can't access that.

He could easily move the money.

That's what I'm saying, Jackie.

You need to create your own financial account.

You need to

get off the phone with us, and you need to drive to the bank.

Remove your name from any account that you're on, it's tied to him, freeze all of your credit with all three credit bureaus.

You can call them up and have them freeze her, go online and do it, and then create your own checking and savings accounts that you have full control over.

Okay.

And I would, honestly, I would pack up my stuff and I would not be back in that house.

And I would be contacting an attorney for next steps.

That's another thing.

I don't even know where to begin.

And he thinks it's the funniest thing that he's just going to, he's just going to ruin me.

And he thinks it's funny because he's in finance.

And I know that's it.

He thinks it's funny because he's an absolute.

And he knows that you're going to be a doormat and he knows you're going to come back and you're going to say, well, I don't want a broken home.

He knows that he's holding all the cards.

And so you need to show him that you mean business like you did yesterday when he went to jail for the night.

Right.

And I think when he realizes, oh, she's not coming back.

Oh, she created her own accounts.

Oh, she took half the money.

This is more serious than I thought.

I don't think he's going to be laughing then when the courts demand that he pay alimony or child support, whatever it may be.

Or, yeah, our kids are adults, though.

Well, I guess it would be alimony.

I don't know.

Yeah.

No idea.

Yeah.

There's laws that protect you here.

Yes, absolutely.

And you're not a bad person for taking advantage of that.

And especially because there's a police report that's been filed.

I mean, you have a lot of weight right now for you to use in your favor, Jackie.

And

we implore you to do that.

I mean, for your own safety, Jackie, please.

I'd have a restraining order against this guy, let alone letting him walk back into my house.

It's a manipulator, an abuser.

It's every red flag you can imagine, Jackie.

And so just hear that from two strangers.

It's so clear to us.

And my fear is that it's not clear to you.

If you can, wherever you are, Jackie.

Join a local church, get a community around you who's willing to support you.

You need people in your corner right now.

I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry.

Call us back if you need anything.

You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best.

If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program.

SmartVestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more.

Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options so you never have to invest in anything you don't understand.

Head to ramseysolutions.com/slash SmartVestor to get connected.

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros.

Learn more at ramseysolutions.com/slash smartvestor.

Buying or selling your home is a big deal.

And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's really hard to know what's actually happening in the housing market.

And so we are here to help you with the latest trends so that you can easily understand what is happening.

So median home prices have dipped a little bit last month to about $426,000 and a typical season shift as we fall as we head into fall.

And buyers have more options and negotiating power while sellers face more competition.

So if you are in the buying market,

you're in the green light.

So mortgage rates have also dropped slightly to 5.5% in September, giving some buyers some breathing room.

And since rates are unpredictable, the best time is when you are financially ready to buy a home, not just when rates drop.

So obviously it's in your favor when that happens.

But if you are ready to buy a home, go ahead and get into the market.

To learn more about the

housing market trends and to get free tools to help you when you're buying or selling your home and you need some confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com slash

or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcasts or watching on YouTube.

All right, let's go to Brian in Syracuse, New York.

Hi, Brian.

Welcome to the show.

Hey, good afternoon.

So, hey, exactly a month ago, I turned 40 and decided it was time to stop making excuses and create a will.

So I hopped on Mama Bear Legal Forms, knocked it out, good to go.

Great.

As I'm reviewing it, I feel like there are some gaps in, I guess, what I would want my plan to be.

So, my question is: is there some sort of supplemental document or something where I can really spell it out like A to Z?

And then, how do I have an age-appropriate conversation with my kids?

There, I have a teen and a pre-teen.

I can't imagine anything that's going to happen anytime soon, but how do I begin to have those conversations?

So, when it does happen, you know, there's no surprises and it's just pretty straightforward, and we're good.

Yeah, no, those are some great questions.

Well, I think from the relational standpoint,

you know, I think having an age-appropriate conversation with them is a great idea, especially if they're old enough to kind of understand how life works.

And pre-teen and teen, you know, they're all, I feel like they're always smarter than we give them credit for what they can and what they can handle too.

So, yeah, I do think it could be a good discussion.

I mean, I feel like my parents did that.

I don't remember like a formal sit-down, but it sounds morbid, but I think we always knew who we were going to go to.

If something happened to mom and dad, like I think that was always a kind of a known thing.

And weirdly, I feel like it kind of gives you a little bit of security as a kid that, I don't know, because it's usually obviously people that you love.

It was our aunt and uncle

for us.

And so I think, you know, talking to them and again, you're sharing it.

You're not trying to scare them.

And just to say, you know, mom and dad have been doing some planning and we want to bring you guys in just so that you're aware.

And if you have any more questions, like we are here to answer.

And that's one one thing I've learned with kids is you can give them, you know, some information.

And if they're ready for more, they'll ask more questions.

And you can be there to be truthful and answer them.

But

yeah, that's probably what I would do is just sit them down and just say, hey, we just want you guys to know that, you know, we've been doing some planning.

And as parents, we love you guys and love our family.

And we want to protect as much as we can.

If anything bad ever happens, and nothing probably bad is going to happen, but if it did, we did just want to let you guys know, you know, maybe who they're going, you know, who they would go to or whatnot.

I don't know.

That may sound kind of too blunt, but.

I mean, they do all kinds of drills in schools to prepare in case something should happen.

And so I think it's a good analogy to go, listen, we do the same for our life for what would happen if something were to happen to us.

Here's what would go on.

And so what's the extent of the discussion you're wanting to have with them?

It's just,

you know, I'm, I'm, I'm thinking I won't need this for another 50 years anyway, you know, I certainly hope.

But it's just, so it's, it's just me.

And my brother is the executor.

And, you know, it's, it's honestly, it's a big thing like my house.

You know, it would go to them, but they're 12 and 14.

What in the world are they going to do with a house?

Oh, sure.

Well, it would be held by the executor until it's time.

And once they're adults, then they would have access to those assets.

And so, you know, there are situations as you get older and as you build more wealth, you can then move into a trust where you can get a little more fancy and complicated.

But a will can do a whole lot.

I mean, you can add a whole lot of clauses in there, just a detail.

You add as much detail as you want.

Yeah, so maybe I need to go back through

because I can edit for still quite a while

and add some more detail.

Yeah, that's really the biggest thing.

I don't think my net worth is high enough where a trust makes sense right now.

But at the same time, I don't know that I would want to hand them the keys, you know, when they're 14 and 16.

I mean, hopefully they're in their 60s.

And legally, they wouldn't just

get a house.

Yeah, they wouldn't get it until 18 or unless specified otherwise.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that would be something to think through, you know, if, yeah, whether it is a home or any cash available, when you would want that to be available to them, right?

At what age would you want it specified for college?

I mean, if you have college funds, yeah, like what all of that,

as detailed as possible, I think is a gift to those if the will ever has to be activated that you're able to to

what i'm looking for yeah i i think maybe i need to go back through and i could add some more detail yeah and then i guess at at what level

like how granular should the discussion be with the executor who'd be my brother i trust him he's great the idea is i want it all in a document so if something were to happen there's just no questions it's just there in ink and then he can just execute on it you know it's it's not that i expect anything to be dramatic but just so it's nice and clean easy yes well from a legal perspective you can put as much in the will as possible and then and then this would not be necessarily as legal, but for him specifically, just as a level of communication, I mean, you could create a Word document.

Do you know what I'm saying?

And be like, here, the will is going to take care of the legal side, but here are like my wishes, like more specifically, directionally, if you don't want to put all that detail into the will.

But the will should be able to cover from a legal perspective exactly where you want things to go and custody of the kids and all of that.

But yeah, but for your brother, we're going to.

So he won't manage the assets until they're adults.

And so that's just part of it.

And you can specify that in there.

Great, cool.

So looks like I should go back and just do some more detail work, have that conversation with them.

And it should be good.

Yeah, for sure.

And I think it's always a good idea to loop the person in who is going to be helping.

Yeah, no surprises.

We're like, oh, I put their name in there, but I didn't want to tell them.

Yeah.

Uncle Cody's now getting two kids.

And he's like, wait, what?

You want to make sure they actually are willing and able and agree to it.

That's part of it.

For sure.

But you're doing the right thing, Brian.

I'm really proud of you, man.

Yep.

All right.

Let's go to Jada in Atlanta.

Hi, welcome to the show.

Hi, Rachel.

Hi, George.

Hello.

How can we help today?

So I was wondering if I should pause the baby steps and save up some money for like a new car and some other things.

Just some background, I'm recently divorced and I have a two-year-old, so I don't have a lot of time to do like side hustles.

I do try to do like Uber Eats and DoorDash, but there's not so much I can do.

Yeah, how much do you make, Jada, from your job?

I make about $55K a year.

Okay.

And how much debt do you have?

I have about $47,000 in debt.

Okay.

What are those debts?

About $3,000 is for medical bills.

I have about $3,500 on a credit card.

I have $1,000 left on my transmission that I have to pay off because my car broke down a couple months ago.

And then the rest is student loans.

I've got $3,500.

$35,000.

Okay, perfect.

When you're doing your budget month to month, do you have any margin at all?

Like a couple hundred bucks even?

Maybe like two

hundred dollars.

Okay.

It kind of varies.

And any savings?

No.

No savings.

Okay.

And is how's your car doing right now?

It's okay.

It's definitely not in the best condition, and it makes me want to get something else because I end up having to do like an oil change every two to two and a half months because it burns so much oil.

Okay.

So could you make this work for another six months or so and save up and get a different car?

Because I'd be okay with you pausing the steps to get you reliable transportation from A to B.

I think I could.

I'm hoping I can, honestly.

Yeah, I'm not sure.

Okay.

Yeah, well, if it's pausing for a short period of time to see what, if you can sell your car and save up maybe another extra thousand or so, put it with it, that's great.

But, um, but as long as I mean, if you can put that money towards at least a thousand dollar savings, emergency

savings, I think is the number one goal before you go and try to replace the car.

So, I try to get that thousand dollars ASAP.

Hey, what's up, guys?

It's Jade.

You know that moment when you check your bank account and think, wait a minute, how is my paycheck gone already?

Yeah, not cool.

You work way too hard to feel broke like that.

And the truth is, you deserve better than just not feeling broke.

You need more margin, more breathing room.

And that's what our Every Dollar Budget app helps you find.

Most people free up an average of $3,015 in just the first 15 minutes in the app.

Just imagine how much you could find to pay off debt, stack savings, and just breathe easier with that money stress gone.

Things might seem tight, I get it, but I promise you, you've got way more margin than you think.

And with Every Dollar, you'll find it.

Download it for free today in the App Store or Google Play today.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

I'm George Campbell here with Rachel Cruz, and we've got a special guest on the debt-free stage.

It's Carrie.

How are you doing, Carrie?

Doing good.

So, a little birdie told me that you work for U-Haul, and they are Smart Dollar users.

So, if you don't know, Smart Dollar is our financial wellness product that we created for organizations for HR to have this as a benefit to their employees to help them get financial peace and take control of their money.

And you have gone through that.

Yeah.

Fantastic.

Well, I'm grateful you've joined us today.

Yes.

Thank you.

Where do you live?

Phoenix, Arizona.

Okay, so great.

And how much debt have you paid off?

$33,000.

Amazing.

What did that consist of?

That was $25,000 in a HELOC and about 8,000 in credit cards.

Oh, incredible.

Well, I know some of your coworkers are probably listening to this call, so we're not going to ask your income just to like let that happen.

Don't make it where you're in the break room.

No, but.

How long did it take you?

Yeah.

It took me 18 months.

Oh, wow.

Fast.

Year and a half.

Done.

Knocked it out.

Good for you, Carrie.

That's awesome.

So what got you started on this journey?

So I had credit cards, and that's what I used to pay for anything that I couldn't, you know, pay with my paychecks.

So I was paycheck to paycheck and living beyond my means, and it was credit card after credit card and you know that one would get maxed out I'd get another one and there was a day where I specifically remember I was in my home gym and I had my third credit card it was maxed out I thought oh I'm just gonna call them up you know call them and I'll get that increased and they said I'm sorry your debt to income ratio you're you don't qualify for any more wow and that was just the moment like Something has to be done.

Yeah, when even the lenders are like, yeah, we're not going to let you borrow any more money.

You know, you're deep in it.

Wow.

And that's when you had moment of I got to do something different.

Yeah.

And then how did you get connected to us?

Was it through Smart Dollar originally, or have you heard about us before then?

Yeah, my son was using the app and doing the program on his own.

And I thought, I think I've heard about that.

I think I've seen something about that at work.

So I'm going to check and see.

And I looked more into it and they're like, yeah, it's completely free.

We give you this.

You get the Every Dollar app, which has been totally a lifesaver to see.

I'm a numbers person.

So I want to see where my, where I'm spending too much and where I could maybe save some.

And that's awesome.

What's your role at you all?

What do you do right now?

I am in sales.

Okay.

So I work from home.

Yeah, I'm in home sales.

Nice.

Almost 15 years.

So

great.

Okay.

So when you start, so when you started it 18 months ago, was it hard to kind of get on board?

Like, was it hard to change the way you used to handle money and now you're doing something totally new?

Or were you at a point of like desperation where you're thinking, I will do anything.

I will do anything to get out of this.

Well, it was a little of both because it was a necessity.

I mean, if I was gonna not lose my house and not lose my stuff, I had to make the changes.

You know, it was a necessity.

But it was hard, of course, it was hard.

You know, I was used to living a certain way.

And if I wanted to go to dinner, I just put it on credit card and I'd worry about that later.

That's right.

If I wanted to, you know,

go out and get something, it wasn't a second thought.

Yeah, that's for future Carrie's problems.

Yeah, future carries.

It came quicker than I thought.

Yes, yes.

Okay, so during the time, okay, so the hardest part was probably saying no to yourself of what you're used to.

Changing the habits.

Yes.

Were there people cheering you on during the process?

My parents, for sure.

Yes, so great.

Is this them right there?

Yeah.

Okay, so if you're watching out on YouTube, they're here in the lobby.

So great.

So wonderful.

Wow.

What was one of the hardest things that you had to make a tweak to or cut out completely from the budget that you sort of used as fuel of like, one day I'm gonna have this back in my life but right now it's got to go in the name of freedom I think it was mostly eating out we used to do that a lot that was kind of our thing like you know that was our release you know you've had a stressful week or something you're gonna go out and I don't want to cook I want to you know take it easy and and then you know I would just do that and it's be like not think about it it's just you know what we would do for fun that was kind of our fun so it was meal planning and cooking and going to the grocery store and all those things that that aren't so fun but

it's so worth it in the end.

Yeah, did you see a big change?

Because we always tell people to cut out to eat because of how much it eats into your income.

Did you see that difference, grocery shopping and cooking versus eating out?

Oh, for sure.

So much different because I didn't do a budget before.

It was like if I had the money, I would do it.

And if not, I'd put it on credit.

And yeah, actually looking at how much money I was spending on eating out was, it was sickening.

I think everyone feels that way.

Most people just never look.

They just would rather not.

They don't want to know.

Once you do the math, you can't unsee it.

And then you go grocery shopping and cook at home and you're like, oh my gosh, I saved $500 this month just by being intentional.

Way to go.

Yes.

Were there people making fun of you at all?

Like some of your friends or anything?

More than a happy hour.

Come on.

Or was everyone cheering you on?

And they're like, good.

Pretty much.

And a lot of people didn't know that I was doing that because it was very private with my money.

A lot of people didn't know I was in debt to begin with.

Sure.

Not even my family knew.

Yes.

So it wasn't something, you know, you go like, and I don't think a lot of people tell you how much credit card debt they have.

And what was the HELOC about?

At what point did you take that on and what did you use it for?

That was the worst decision I've probably ever made.

They make it seem like, oh, you're going to save this money.

I remember them saying, you'll save $600 a month by combining your debt and putting that together.

Oh, you rolled your debts into a HELOC.

Yeah, that was what we did.

Like a consolidation.

We did a little bit of remodeling for our house.

We did the bathroom, but yeah, we paid off the car.

We

put the credit card debt on there.

You just moved the debt around and you felt better about your life.

Yeah, because I was saving money.

I was saving money.

They convinced you.

Yeah, they had a great sales pitch, and you're in sales.

This is it.

You keep saying we.

Is that your...

I have a fiancé.

Fiancé.

Okay.

So great.

Okay.

How was that relationship as you were working your way out of debt?

Was that...

Was he on board?

Was he

cheering you on?

No.

He was on board for me, but yeah.

I mean, our finances are separate.

So he's on his own financial journey now.

Sure, sure.

Well, I'm still going to eat out.

You do what you want.

Yeah, I was going to say, that's impressive.

Yeah, to be, yeah, to be in a relationship like that.

And you were like, hey, I'm making these changes.

Without him doing it, yeah.

Yeah.

Well, maybe he'll see the peace and the control that you have, you know?

And yeah, maybe you'll rub up on him.

It has.

He has his $1,000 emergency fund now.

Oh, look.

He's not using credit cards.

So he's very proud of me.

Good.

And it has rubbed off a little.

Yes, that's great.

That's great.

I I love it.

We're so proud of you.

And I know a lot of your coworkers, family are watching.

Your son, I'm sure, is like way to go.

Yeah, we're going to be doing it.

That's pretty wild that your son got you inspired to do that.

He did.

And he just paid off his debt.

He is debt-free.

He couldn't be here with me today because he's saving up for his wedding.

Oh, look, you're good.

Oh, I love it.

Oh, yeah, he's debt-free now, too.

Three generations of debt-free.

Look at you.

That's literally.

changing your family tree.

So powerful.

We are so proud of you.

Honored you came to visit us and so thankful to you Hall for the partnership they've had with Smart Dollar and helping their own employees become debt-free.

Like, why would you not want that for your own team?

And so, I love to see companies get a hold of this and offer it to their team.

All right, you ready for this?

I'm ready.

It's Carrie from Phoenix.

33,000 paid off in 18 months.

Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two,

one.

I'm debt-free.

Just like that.

I love it.

Imagine yourself now and then fast forward 18 months from now.

That's pretty wild to think about.

You could be completely debt-free just by getting a little bit focused, a little bit intentional, making a few sacrifices.

I mean, yeah, and you heard her.

She was like, gosh, all these expenses, when I actually started looking and seeing where I was spending, that actually can create the margin to then just completely snowball into the debt to be able to pay it off that much faster.

Yeah.

Like, it really isn't rocket science.

It's just paying attention instead of just being in denial, being ignorant, just doing what you want like a child.

Instead, having a little bit of delayed gratification, a little bit of intentionality and going, what did I actually spend?

What could I be spending?

And how can I use that newfound margin?

And that's what's so great about the all-new Every Dollar is it helps do that for you now.

With all the personalized recommendations and you heard her, you know, we didn't pay her to talk about Every Dollar, but she was like, that was the game changer.

Yeah.

Well, and her suck at it.

And that was another thing I thought of.

We get so many calls from people in their 20s and 30s.

I'm like, hey,

I want my parents to do this stuff, but they won't listen to me.

And we always say, well, if you just do it, they're watching and they're hearing you and your conversations around money.

And you could see that's exactly what happened, right?

He was living his life financially, being wise and getting control.

And when his mom hit this wall financially in her own life, she thought, oh my gosh, my son is doing something.

I wonder what that is.

So you never know what that example that you're taking on because you could have, yeah, a family member like Carrie and then she gets it and then she's debt-free 18 months later.

Absolutely incredible.

Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 24, 16.

Though the righteous fall seven times, they rise again, but the wicked stumble when calamity strikes.

Serena Williams says, I really think a champion is defined not by their wins, but how they recover when they fall.

Beautiful.

Yep.

Also easy to say when you win a lot.

You know what I mean?

It's not all about winning, guys.

But I just win everything I do.

Yep.

Serena Williams.

Oh, so great.

All right.

Let's go to Nate in Lansing, Michigan.

Hi, Nate.

Welcome to the show.

Hi.

Yeah.

Thanks a lot for taking the call.

Absolutely.

How can we help?

Well, my wife and I are looking for a little advice here.

She is on the leadership team for a hospitality-based company out of Florida that is selling to a larger company in New York.

Okay.

And

the owners of her company met with her and said that they would like to recognize her years of service and loyalty by giving her a $600,000 bonus from the proceed of the sale.

Whoa.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So wonderful.

She figured she might get something from this, but this large large amount was a pleasant shock to both of us.

So the only caveat here is that she is likely

after the new company gets on its feet from the merger, the new company may let her go within a year.

Sure.

But we're just looking for advice on what we should do with this $600,000.

Oh, my gosh.

How great.

What does she make?

Yeah.

Her annual income is $190,000 a year.

Okay.

Fantastic.

How old are you guys?

She's 39.

I'm 40.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

And how much do you make a year?

$140,000.

$140,000.

Fantastic.

This is a power couple by definition.

I know.

Y'all are doing so great.

Okay.

Financially, where are you guys at?

Do you guys have any consumer debt?

No.

We only have

what's left on our mortgage, and we have a stupid low interest rate.

So that's the only thing.

We have $177,000 on the mortgage and we're debt-free otherwise.

Amazing.

Okay.

Well,

usually when we talk about, you know, this type of money that you fall into, well, I shouldn't say she worked very hard, you know, and that's incredible that they're recognizing her with that.

But there's really the three big buckets to kind of dip into, and that's giving, being generous, saving,

and enjoying some of it.

And then I would add, I would throw the mortgage piece in there

as well.

So, yeah, if I woke up in your shoes, I would pay off the mortgage.

I would be completely debt-free.

And you guys would have about $400,000 left.

I mean, four, yeah, $420,000, $430,000.

And

out of that,

I would give some.

I would find something that you guys, you don't have to be urgent about it, but.

Find something that as a couple, as a family, that you guys are really passionate about, that you love, and I'd set some money aside for some giving.

And then beyond that, I mean, yeah, you could, you know, put this in some, you know, an index fund or mutual funds from the investing side, and then I would enjoy some of it.

Maybe there's like a big trip you guys have been wanting to do.

If you guys need to replace any cars or anything like that, I mean, I want you to spend and enjoy part of this.

You've earned it to upgrade your life a little bit.

Yeah.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

You know, we're doing pretty well otherwise.

We do have $90,000 in a savings account, and I'm kind of on the fence on whether that's too much.

We do plan to retire a little bit early, though.

So that's another thing here.

I think this becomes your

non-retirement brokerage account bridge fund that'll get you to 59 and a half when you can access those retirement accounts without penalty.

So I love the idea of you're going to need to set aside some of it for taxes, right?

Exactly.

Your tax bill is going to increase severely this year, which is fine.

But figure out how much that's going to be and set that aside in a separate savings account to be ready for that.

I would pay off the mortgage personally, regardless of the interest rate, just because it's going to free you guys up to have total freedom, total margin, more cash flow coming in that you can use for the rest of your life.

And maybe, you know, you upgrade the house down the road.

Maybe you upgrade the cars.

And like Rachel said, you're going to give some, spend some, and then whatever's left over, I would just park in that brokerage account and let that be the start of your bridge fund.

For retirement is what you're saying, to retire early.

So if you guys want to retire at 50 or 55, you've got a nice cushion to get you there.

Even if that interest rate is

just below three,

that's what it is.

We talked about this last night, and she's like, well, I'm interested to hear what they have to say on the show, but what if we didn't pay the mortgage off and invested it and just hope to beat that 3%?

Does that make sense?

Of course.

Yeah.

It's the number one argument we get with telling people to pay off their house.

And you're in the unique position where you could literally write a check and pay off the mortgage today, whereas most people are just hypotheticals.

They don't actually have the money.

But when you look at just how much you're paying in interest, it's just, it's still even at 3% on a loan that size, you're just like, why am I giving the bank a thousand bucks this month?

This is silly.

And so to me, you're going to be multi-multi-multi-millionaires.

Whether it's $7.5 million or $7.2 million, I'd be happy to have that argument down the road.

Yeah.

And what you don't equate for, Nate, and we talk to people all the time who have paid off their houses, that there's just a level of peace that you can't put in an Excel spreadsheet.

And that, you know, you try to find the spread here or there.

You're not going to find genuine just peace of mind knowing that you don't owe anyone anything.

No bank is over your head at all.

Like you are completely free.

So what I would encourage you to do is I would pay it off.

And then if you hate it, if you hate being debt-free and you really want a mortgage, you could borrow on the house and get a mortgage again.

It'll be like 6%, though.

So that's really going to put a

I don't care.

But

it's the idea that you would never go back into debt once it was paid off.

Well, and you told us there's a possibility she gets laid off in the future.

And so not having a mortgage just makes that a yawn.

Okay.

Guess she gets to look at the next thing she's doing instead of, man, we really got to lower our lifestyle because this mortgage payment was three grand.

And obviously you guys are doing so well that I don't think that would be an issue, but it's just going to only increase your peace.

And you're talking to two people who don't have a mortgage payment.

And this is something that we would do.

I would do it all over again, regardless if it's 1% or 7%.

I'm just going to knock it out because the bank doesn't get to tell me I own my house or not.

Yeah, that was my sentiment, too, in our discussions.

Obviously, it's a team decision here, but she's very supportive of me coming on the show and getting some outside advice.

So thank you very much.

Yes, absolutely, Nate.

And well done.

She's earned it.

Yeah.

I think a shopping, this is my dream: is just give her a shopping spree.

You know, whatever her favorite stores are, go, you know what?

Here's a couple.

10 grand in a day.

You have to spend it.

So enjoy it.

Go.

One woman is like, no, I don't want to do that.

That sounds terrible.

That sounds awful.

Make it a weekend.

Spa day one day, a shopping day another day, and one day just for recovery.

Because that was a lot.

It was stressful.

There was a lot of effort that went into that.

Yeah, that is one

argument.

I mean, I don't want to say argument.

He was not being argumentative about it, but one take that

from a math standpoint, we hear a lot.

If you did have a lower interest rate, the 2%, 3%,

and you could be making, you know, easily 15% in the market, even more so for the market.

Or even in the high-yield savings, I can make four in the high-yield savings and the mortgage is three.

What's the point?

And yep.

And so that is something that we hear.

We hear often from the math nerds.

And again, from a mathematical standpoint, we understand it.

We're not stupid.

But there is something about personal finance where we always say it is 80% behavior, it's 20% head knowledge.

What you do, the person you are handling the money is the bulk of your money problems and your money solutions.

And when the person handling the money, aka you,

you are completely free.

Scripture says the borrower is slave to the lender.

And when you do not owe anyone anything, there is a level of rest.

and peace and sleep at nights that you just don't always get knowing I have to pay this.

There's a level of risk.

And again, their numbers are big.

So would they pay it?

Probably, yes.

But man, there's just something to be said that you just can't take it away.

You can't take it away.

So.

Well, there's something to be said for wanting to solve for the spread that you could make versus just solving for peace.

And they're just two very different goals.

And so it's not an apples to apples argument of on paper I could make this.

Listen, you're playing checkers over here.

I'm playing chess.

That's just a different game.

And that's a different game.

What do you want?

Yep.

And our goal with this show is solving for peace, getting control of your money so money's not an issue in your life, that you get to go through it through life.

And money is a tool to be used, but it's not a point of stress for you.

All right, George, great show.

Thanks as always.

Been a great co-host, everyone in the booth.

Thank you guys.

And for you, America, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.