How Liz Hurley Slid Into Billy Ray Cyrus’s DMs

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Hello and welcome to this episode of The Resters Entertainment with me, Marina Hyde.

And me, Richard Osman.

Hello everybody.

Hello Marina.

Hello Richard.

How are you?

I'm good because we've got some quite fun things to talk about this week.

There's a lot of silliness, silliness, a lot of celebrity, but you know, our usual level of analysis.

Yes, there is.

I was thinking I've had like a sort of cultural desert this week, but because I've been moving house, but actually, I haven't.

I've watched something that's really exciting that is coming up.

I watched a new cut of Adam Curtis's forthcoming series of films, which I don't think people actually know is forthcoming, but it is.

It's coming to iPlayer in early June, I think.

And it's called Shifty, and it's about the 80s.

It's a sort of social history, so it's totally different than what you did before.

It's really interesting.

And kind of like how this we all shifted in a sort of consciousness shifted to this completely individualistic thing.

And he's very good at making you realize how things felt when they were happening.

And your memories are false.

Anyway, that's something I did actually watch.

But I also watched some other culture.

I watched a movie starring the stars of our first item.

Liz Hurley and Billy Ray Cyrus.

So we're talking about Liz Hurley and Billy Ray Cyrus.

I'm very much looking forward to it because

I'm aware of both of them.

I haven't been entirely aware of the story of both of them.

I'm looking forward to hearing about it.

We're also talking about Peter Andre has made a splash.

He is starring in a new film called Jafaken, where he essentially tries to impersonate a Jamaican man.

The internet has not reacted particularly positively to it.

It's currently what we'd call critically misunderstood, isn't it?

Critically misunderstood, and I wonder if we're going to make any difference.

And then we're going to talk about who is going to win Celebrity Traitors and why it might be the greatest celebrity reality show of all time.

I mean, that sounds like fun, doesn't it?

It sounds like a lot of fun.

There's no doom and gloom there.

Nothing's on fire.

No one's lost their job.

We're beginning with what they call in a real marmalade dropper in Nashville because we're talking about the relationship between Liz Hurley and Billy Ray Cyrus.

Now, every now and then in an age of information saturation where you just feel like there's no mystique left, something comes along that can still blindside us.

And for me, so it was with the news, really, released over the Easter weekend,

which showed Elizabeth Hurley in a plaid shirt, kind of down on the ranch, kind of looking.

I've gotcha, like Megan.

She's listening, she's just at home.

She's just at home.

She's kicking back, making some bathrooms.

Where is she at home?

It looks like a kind of a ranch to me.

And she's being kissed by a heavily tattooed individual in Easter Bunny ears.

Hugh Grant.

It's not.

It's Billy Ray Cyrus, the achy breaky heart hitmaker in tabloid parlance.

Yeah.

I have to say that this was such a shock to the general internet that people i noticed that all the headlines at the start had those particular stylings you know they have sparked romance rumors well i mean they're literally kissing but anyway that's a romance yeah they've teased a romance because i so who released who released this photograph liz hurley released it on easter day

yeah

she did she did but we now know this relationship as i say this kind of like surprise relationship is actually true.

And Billy Ray's gone on a podcast, podcast.

Not his family's podcast, which we'll talk about the family and its factionalism later.

Oh my god.

He's the father, we should say, of Miley Cyrus and a number of other sort of gothically, absurdly named children.

He's in some ways a kind of bit of a, you know, a tabloid story himself.

Anyway, he is now with Liz Harley.

And we know this is true because he went on a podcast last week and he gave an interview saying there was a point,

he doesn't say when, a while ago, where he was thinking, wow, can life get any harder?

Can it get any tougher?

He just couldn't get, he felt you couldn't get knocked down any flatter than laying on your back when life is kicking you.

And in this moment, a friend, he says a friend, reached out.

Hey, it looks like life might be a little bit tough.

And I wanted to know I'm in your corner.

You've got a friend in your corner.

Now, how much of a friend this person was, who knows?

Because Billy Ray Syris replies, I'm sorry, I don't know who this is.

And the reply comes, it's Elizabeth Hurley.

Wow.

Yes.

Now, who knows how she knew that he was in his lying down?

Prattie she does it to because she sent exactly the same to me.

So perhaps you must just send it to everyone.

She sends a speculative one out to see who bites.

Yeah.

Or she'd maybe been, like many people, sort of insta-stalking, like civilians, as she would refer to them, ordinary non-celebrity folk who stalk it at people on Instagram, work out what things are going, the various plot lines in people's lives, and maybe make their move at the right time.

Yeah, the two people who replied were Billy Ray Cyrus and Greg Wallace.

That was it.

Nobody else.

That was her choice.

Yeah.

So, of course, the internet wishes to wreck on all these things and sort of say, Oh, there were clues, there were clues, because she's now the thing is, she would, she did, she was in the Maldives doing a bikini video.

She's very much a bikini entrepreneur

in these days.

Yeah, um, we'll come to sort of the nature of her celebrity in a bit, and it was it was in the Maldives, it was a little couple of weeks ago or whatever, it was done to a Billy Rose Iris song.

When you say a Billy Rosyrus song, it wasn't that one, no.

Wow, yeah, I know, yeah.

Well, he's got Old Town Road as well, to be fair, hasn't he?

Yeah, it wasn't that one either.

It was

like another one, yeah.

it was another one.

The lyrics had absolutely nothing to do with what you'd use to sell a bikini, so people are saying, oh, I see, there should have been some clues there.

Yeah.

Anyhow, so then they go dig back and think, well, hang on, how the heck did these two meet?

And as it turned out, there was a film called Christmas in Paradise, starring Liz Hurley and Billy Ray Cyrus.

We love, we love, love, love

a celebrity Christmas film.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, really, I mean, that was my entire takeaway of this, which is like, wait, there's Billy Ray Cyrus and Liz Hurley Christmas film, also starring kelsey grammar i watched a film for research for one of our other stories yesterday which i can't wait to tell you about but do tell me about christmas yeah it's called journalism i did it too i watched christmas in paradise yeah but i'm not a journalist i missed the second bit of the ronnie o' sullivan match to watch this so come on okay the struggle and the sacrifice listen it looks real it looked like pang chung ju was going to come back at him but uh i i wouldn't have known Well, the film that you watched, I really do want to hear about.

But anyway, we'll get to that one on the next item.

Or the next item, but one.

So she did these interviews to promote Christmas in paradise a film which appears to have sunk without trace saying um i what drew me to this was the chance to work with biddy rays iris something that not that many people have said maybe some divorce lawyers

uh actually they all say it uh anyway but listen as i say my takeaway was sorry there's a film now I will give you the summary of the film.

Liz Hurley plays Joanna Christmas.

Yes.

Okay.

Now, her Christmas is torpedoed, really, when her and her sisters find that their father's not returning messages.

He's been dumped.

He's played by Kelsey Grammar, by the way.

And he's taken himself off to a Caribbean island and they have to sort of go back and by the way,

it makes it sound like he's, you know, living like Robinson Crusoe.

He seems to be in a sort of resort with a kids' club.

And there is a certain resort crooner, if you will, type of resort sort of musician by the name of Billy Rosyris.

And also you could believe at that stage of his career that that is what it was actually Billy Rosiris.

Oh, you're here.

Well, just, you know, you do it there.

Begins with Achy Breaky Heart, ends with Achy Breaky Heart.

It's the resort comedy that isn't the white lotus.

Yes, I'd very much say.

Kelsey Grandma plays Father Christmas, and you may say to me, Well, we don't know yet that, but we do because the first, this is a sequel.

I can't believe it, which I think is called Father Christmas, the first one.

I have to say, I haven't seen the first one because I'm not that good of a journalist.

But Owen Jones would have seen it.

Yeah, I know, but he's a completist.

What can I tell you?

I did a deep dive.

It turns out this is, by the way, this isn't even the only Caribbean Christmas movie she's she's done.

There's one called Christmas in the Caribbean.

Again, a solid 3.7 on IMDb.

Same director.

Same director as this.

The title for that comes in.

You just go, yes.

Yeah.

Well, that's what I'm saying.

There's a certain class of film now that you just think it might not be about the work.

It might just be about the fun we have along the way.

You know, you're going to go and film it in wherever, in the Caribbean, obviously, as she did with this one.

And it's probably going to be quite nice.

Yeah.

And no one's going to worry that much about how much coverage did you quite get for everything.

It's going to, it's going to be fun.

I'm not sure if you've worked with the director before.

And for some reason, again, something that in the Peter Andre item, we might talk about the economics of all of this.

It just works.

I would say that this is a part of it.

She's part of a sort of realistic community of filmmakers now.

So Liz Hurley is Joanna Christmas, Joanna's father Christmas Christmas.

And that's where they met.

That's where her and Billy Ray met.

He's a sort of resort entertainer.

If you want to see a Calypso version of AQ Breaking,

it's in the movie.

Okay.

By the way, I should say that that isn't the first Bonnie Airs photo that Liz Hurley has posted on Easter Day because a few years ago, this, I mean, again, she posted a picture of her in the Bonnie Ears with a young man who, as it turns out, I think is her nephew.

He's recovered, but this was the caption on Easter Day.

Thanking God today that my nephew Miles is with us for Easter today.

His wound is still oozing blood, but he's alive and we're thankful.

The knifemen who stabbed him are still roaming around London, perhaps around your loved ones.

Happy Easter.

No way, that's not true.

It is, but there we go so I'm pleased to know that Mars has recovered but so yeah I mean Easter drama is she's not a stranger to bunny-eared Easter drama shall I say anyhow let us let us talk about their comparative status because what we've got here is

it's interesting their status because if they feel like they have quite an equivalence yes they do in a way

incredibly world famous but but in in in a very specific narrow way she i would say is a sort of heritage celebrity isn't she really because these are the sort of movies she's making now but back in the day day you know passenger 57 with wesley snipes a movie i've only seen about 30 times the high watermark probably austin powers bedazzled that sort of thing okay she's now a streaming actress and bikini entrepreneur and by the way i think her her bio at one point was mum model actress bikini designer organic farmer i mean that's okay that's all the jobs that's yours as well i believe yeah um now ai does almost all of those yeah yeah and she obviously has had famous left field romances she was with shane warne hugh Grant she was with, right?

Hugh Grant she was with.

And then she married a guy called Arun Naya.

Anyway, a sort of business tycoon, I think he was always describing it.

She briefly went out with the Scotland International Craig Burley.

Yeah.

Didn't she?

But they didn't get married because

she'd been Liz Hurley Burley.

It's been a picaresque romantic career, shall we say?

Cinematically, I would say there have been a lot of movies.

These crazy movies, you know, they get sort of announced and then they t and the whole castlist is announced and then I guess the funding falls apart at the last minute.

There was one that was called High Midnight, which I'm just going to read you the synopsis.

A broken down sheriff is forced to join forces with an obsessed Victorian vampire hunter to defeat an undead force consuming a small frontier town in 1892, New Mexico.

Yes, please.

So there's a lot of twisted.

That one never happened.

An episode I really remember is when she went to Chechnya to make a film with Gerald Depodia, she played his sort of Russian old flame.

What a, what a, what a life.

I agree, okay.

And I mean, it is sort of mad, and it is, and the things you sort of have to do, and you can imagine that there was a certain amount of tax credits and a certain amount of conditions attached to those tax credits, because how else could she be filmed with the Ramzan Kadarov, who's the really nasty bit of work who runs church neuro.

Once she did that and was talking about it, she said, well, we've made quite an invasion.

I mean, that guy makes Gerard Depedu look like a nice guy.

Anyhow, so she's, she's, it's taken her some strange places, her correct.

But let's talk about Billy Ray.

Yes, please.

Now, Billy Ray had this one big hit, but he's had other, you know, he's had other, but he's a sort of country star.

One of those country hits that crosses over into mainstream, Okey Breaky Heart.

And he was married to someone called Tish.

And he's got sort of six children.

Many of our people, I say, have these hilarious names.

You know, there's Trace, there's Brazen.

Miley, obviously.

Miley Cyrus is a great name, though.

She's born Destiny Hope.

But yeah, but she was very smiley, and they said Smiley Miley, and it was a sort of baby talk version.

And it became her name.

Although she was, of course, Hannah Montana for quite some time.

And Billy Ray Cyrus was in Hannah Montana.

In fact, Liz Hurley says that Damien, her son, grew up watching and loving Hannah Montana and therefore Liz had watched a lot of it with him and loved the work of Billy Ray.

Well, I mean that that's all getting a little bit listen.

I don't want to go back to the snooker every five minutes, but Ryan Day's father married a daughter and then Ryan Day married the mother of that daughter.

So Ryan Day is his father's own father-in-law.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, what do you think?

There's an element of some of tendency to that.

If you call a kid Destiny Hope, that is essentially saying we're not going to have more kids because that's using up two names.

Don't you think?

Destiny and Hope have very similar vibes to them.

I agree.

But then if you've got brazen in your back pocket and choice,

then you can do whatever you like, can't you?

If I was brazen, I'd be like, with all due respect, Dad, and listen, I'm looking forward to meeting Liz.

You gave Miley, who's already Miley and Hannah, you gave her Destiny and Hope.

And you gave me Brazen.

This may be one of the things they've had one of their nine million feuds about already.

It's impossible to keep track of it all.

But there is a huge amount of factualism.

Then the divorce came.

He's now had another divorce from someone called Fire Rose.

Fire Rose.

Fire Rose, one word.

She's one of those names that I just read everywhere and I think, oh, yeah, I know Fire Rose.

I mean, no idea.

You know, when you've just read so many stories and you just assume that these people are part of the sort of celebrity pantheon.

It sounds like a new restaurant that opens on the high street.

Yeah, very.

Yeah, there's a new place called Fire Rose.

And then like three months later, you're like, oh, that place, Fire Rose, We Never Went, did we, in the end?

There's a lot of chaos in their family.

They've got a podcast, needless to say, called something called We Are Sorry We're Cyrus.

I don't know if they should have called it Cyrus's or Viruses or something like that, but they didn't do it.

And there's a lot of drama in the family.

They should have called it, It's All of Us Except Miley.

She didn't thank him at some recent awards, and everyone reads a lot into that.

You know, they're a family about whom people do a huge amount of internet, and they all have their internet sneaking, and they all have their own pages, and they all seem to be at war with each other at different times.

They're like the sort of Tennessee Lannisters, basically.

And so, quite honestly, it is an unusual relationship, I would say, in conclusion.

You know, the heart wants what it wants.

Yeah.

And we're, you know, it feels like it's a multiplier of a relationship rather than a divider of a relationship you know liz hurley's fame and renown is multiplied by biddy ray cyrus's fame and renown yeah because they must both have plenty of money so they're okay for that they're both instantly recognizable biddy ray when he teamed up um with lil naz ex to do old town road had a real resurgence and was very fashionable and must have made a huge amount of money from that as well but you know he must still feel that his public image is not as solid as he'd like it to be

Does Liz Hurley care?

I think she's probably quite happy going to the Mauldies every five minutes, isn't she?

Oh, I think it's quite a nice line.

I think it's a relationship with huge potential, particularly for the lovers of drama.

It is funny that celebrities, we think they put everything online and we know everything about them, then suddenly there'll be something that comes along and you'll be like, wait, sorry, what?

This is quite the surprise.

I will be watching this relationship.

They've made it very public and they're talking about it a lot, so we'll have to see how it turns out.

I wish them both great good luck in the union between the presumably the Cottswills and the Tennessee ranchlands.

Oh that sounds lovely.

Yeah.

Also looking forward to Christmas in Paradise 3.

Please, come on.

Or a movie with just them as the leads.

That'll be good.

And it definitely can be in the Caribbean.

They're obviously very happy for it to be another movie in the Caribbean.

Not even the last Caribbean movie we're going to talk about today.

Sorry.

It's probably the least controversial Caribbean movie we're going to talk about.

You know what?

It is definitely the least controversial Caribbean movie we're going to talk about today.

It is available for you to watch at a purchase price of $3.49 on Prime.

But it's a lovely story because it's like a Glenn Powell and Sidney Sweeney for our generation.

No, it's way more

of a surprise than that.

Well, I mean, I mean, that would be quite a surprise.

Are you surprised they got together?

That feels absolutely natural.

Well, now I know that there was the movie and there was a chance for them to meet.

Yes, and Liz has very eclectic tastes.

Eclectic romantic tastes.

But I couldn't predict you the next celebrity marmalade dropper, but this one's it.

And I am 100% here for it.

What do you think is the most unusual celebrity relationship?

I wasn't Madonna and Guy Ritchie was quite an unusual one, in a funny kind of note.

But again, it sort of makes sense retroactively.

Yeah.

But at the time, it is.

I mean, Liz and Shane was a big one for me.

Yes.

She is.

You know what?

She's doing sterling work in our top 10 of unusual celebrity relationships.

She really is.

Lana Del Rey and her husband, who I believe runs alligator tours at some, and she once took an alligator tour, possibly in the Everglades.

I assume in the Everglades.

Oh, I took in my favourite one, Brad Pitt and Sunita.

They had a relationship very early in his career.

Wow, well, that's a good one.

I mean, even Simon Carr and Sunita, but that's his own story.

Going back, there were, you know, Arthur Miller and Marilyn Monroe.

These are extremely strange.

They're a great

left field pairing is brilliant.

I was in Peter Crouch and Abby Clancy.

Yeah.

Who genuinely seemed such a great couple, but you would not have put them together.

And in fact, when they were first together, he issued, and then they broke up.

He issued...

such a horrible statement about oh no did he which yeah something for the best man to have read out of their Their marriage, which has now produced four lovely children and they're very, very happy.

But yeah, it wasn't, I don't think she would regard that as his finest hour.

Yeah, that goal for Stoke was his finest hour, probably.

So we go to adverts and after that, we're going to talk about an even more extraordinary celebrity story involving Peter Andre and a dreadlock wig.

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Welcome back, everybody.

We've done Billy Ray Cyrus.

We've done Liz Hurley.

There is only one natural place to go, and that is, of course, Peter Andre Marina.

It's really one for Sineas this week, isn't it?

It's like an audio version of Sight and Sound magazine.

Yeah, exactly.

If anything, a little bit more highbrow.

A little bit more highbrow.

This story sort of broke

a bit more than a week ago a trailer for Peter Andre's new film.

And if you're thinking, I didn't know he was an actor, then that's not even the weirdest thing about this because the film is a comedy crime caper called Jafaken.

To summarise the plot, Peter Andre is a low-level gangster.

Gary Buckle.

Gary Buckle is

his name.

And often in financial trouble, his nan...

lovely, beautiful woman, is in a care home and needs £35,000 to continue her care.

This is the film the Thursday Murder Club could have been.

Could have been, should have been.

So she needs £35,000.

So Peter Andre,

because he's has a heart of absolute gold even though he's a criminal yeah not peter andre gary buckle has a heart of gold peter andre is not a criminal he has to find thirty five thousand pound from somewhere he uh essentially he meets a man he meets man tells him that he looks exactly like his his imprisoned dad who turns out to be a jamaican gangster so Peter Andre

then hatches a plot to pretend to be this imprisoned Jamaican gangster in order to

make money and get back his ill-gotten gains from some other Jamaican gangsters.

Exactly that.

And all he has to do.

All he has to do, and this is, again, if you ever want to know what an elevator pitch is, this is all it is.

All he has to do is to convincingly pretend to be Jamaican, sound Jamaican, act Jamaican, whatever that is, he has to be convincingly Jamaican.

And I'll film sort of like an Eliza Doolittle for the Caribbean, where he's a fan of the film.

Yes.

I mean, that's kind.

Yeah, it's Peter Andre in a raster wig doing a sort of patois.

Doing a patois.

Now, this is a film I wish I could have bought you an executive producer credit on.

I would have, why did it, and by the way,

cancelled?

I'll come to that in a minute.

On my executive producer credit.

No, I wish I, no,

on the whole financing of something like this, because I think that's interesting.

But we should say, okay, it is by a black writer-director called Freddy Kruger and Waka, who is a former bodyguard.

I

possibly has some claim to having been involved in some way with the Wu-Tang clan.

Was he?

Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, a lot of, it's one of those things that a lot of people claim to have invented the Hovercraft.

I think quite a lot of people, when you've got a collective of simply of that size, you're able to sort of say, but who knows?

Perhaps, perhaps.

So, Freddy Nwaka is the sort of Sir Christopher Cockerer of the Wu-Tang clan.

Yeah.

Yes.

Okay.

That's one for Hoffercraft enthusiasts there.

And they have a shot of it on location in Jamaica.

It's supposed in a bit more than a week to be having its world premiere at something called the Gold Coast Film Festival in Australia.

But it's fair to say, Richard, has not met with universal delight, the trailer.

Yes, Peter Andre

on social media tweeted out the do you still tweet things out?

You probably don't.

He tick-tocked out the trailer,

you know, to what he hoped would be great acclaim.

It did not go down well, the idea of Peter Andre pretending to be Jamaican in a comedy crime caper.

We should say it's not literally blackface, but it sort of is in another way in the sense that, yeah, if you're wearing a wig, a raster wig and doing a patron, yeah, it's but there isn't actually, as far as I can work out, any makeup involved.

But other than that, it certainly teeters on a form of blackface.

And there's lots of black creatives have written to various people

saying, you know, they've written open public letters saying

they're not thrilled about it.

The director has.

Can you just tell us about his earlier films?

He's done a number of films, Freddy Nawaka,

and they're all quite high concept.

I'll give him that.

There's one about a team of

bank robbers who hide out in a haunted house and essentially get haunted.

That's quite a fun capo, again, quite a fun.

He's a good paragraph picture, this guy.

And then his most recent one was called, which is the one I've seen,

which is called On the Other Foot.

And it's about a racist man who overnight becomes black and sees the error of his way.

He's essentially sort of an EDL member who goes to all the meetings and

done as a comedy.

Oh, very broad comedy.

Although it's listen, it's got a social heart.

He goes to the dentist and he won't have an Asian dentist.

His daughter brings home a black boyfriend and he literally faints.

By the way, in the dentist scene, the guy just says,

they'll just,

I'm just going to inject you.

It'll just be a little prick.

And he goes, who are you calling a little prick?

I think, oh, okay.

That's all right.

I can still work as a joke, can I?

Okay, okay, that's fun.

So I watched the whole of this film.

It's fairly extraordinary.

Can I tell you who's in that film, by the way?

Because...

On this whole Jafakin thing, the one thing Peter Andre says is, I'm delighted to be making my movie debut.

And I tell tell you now jaffacan is not his movie debut i can tell you as well because i had a little look at something else and i wonder but he's in this is he he's in this he is in on the other foot peter andre as is junior andre his son um peter andre in this plays a member of the edl so he's in this what can't he do what can sorry what can't he do that's in the range of it yeah he's not getting typecasts which i love okay so I wouldn't watch this film.

I would say that.

It's not something you need to spend 90 minutes on.

What I will say is a number of things about Freddy Noaka.

It's really hard to get a movie made, and I'm fascinated to know how he got these movies.

And he's had a whole load of them made with a

majority black cast.

With,

you know, he's getting stuff done, and he's getting stuff made.

I watched the whole of On the Other Foot, and I absolutely can't on table, I did not enjoy it as a cinematic experience.

At the very end, when the racist white guy is talking to the EDL members and talking about the error of his ways, I thought, you know what, this film has got a lot of heart.

It really has.

It had a great message,

a real heart.

And this is a guy, I was looking at

Freddie's IMDb.

And if you want to know how hard it is to be,

you know, black British in this industry, his first five credits as an actor were all bouncer.

all of them, bouncer or doorman, all of them.

That was all he's playing.

And so he's gone off, he's written all these films.

He's got these films made.

He's cast them with British actors and he's put them out there.

And

that's more than a lot of people do these days.

I'll say that.

I didn't, hands-on heart, enjoy it, but it did have,

it's got a lot of heart.

I will say that on the other foot.

It's something, it's not even one of those, it's so bad, it's good Typhoon.

It's just, you slightly feel uncomfortable watching it.

I would say that.

But at the end, I was sort of...

Good for the poster.

Yeah.

I was cheering Freddie on at the end, I have to say.

Well, okay, so a film has got made, and it's going to, you know, in a week or two, it's going to this film festival.

I'm sort of, should we talk a bit now about the economics of how these sort of things happen, how they get off the ground?

If you look at the, even if you look at the trailer of Jafaca, and obviously, we haven't been able to see it yet, it is having a theatrical release, by the way,

20th of May.

As far as I can work out, it is having a one-day theatrical release, which is interesting, and we we can talk a bit more about that in a minute.

But so if you look at the end of it, it's made by Nawaka Studios, so that's obviously his thing,

something called an entity called Andre Films,

which, again, I'm interested in.

Then there's something, it was distributed by something called Epicum Entertainment.

Now,

that was only incorporated last month as a company.

I mean, it is an industry, and it always has been filled with...

Some might say chances, other might just, people just might say people, you know, with a sort of gift of the gab.

And I would say that the person who's running that distribution company says is described by herself as a business mogul who has sought to create a complete solution for the media and entertainment industry.

She's got a talent company, a model company, a films company,

another media company.

Then it's one other producer, which is called Devil One Entertainment.

Now they describe themselves as film investors, but they also do close protection and security.

Oh, wow.

And if you look at the website, it's really interesting.

It's like we invest in film, but then there's just, it's mostly bodyguard stuff.

Yeah.

Now, that is interesting because those people are often around the industry a lot and they see a lot of things and for whatever.

Now, in some ways, it feels like a period piece, this movie, because there were a lot of movies that came out about the sort of turn of this century that genuinely you thought, how on earth?

They were trying to make it a bit like in the wake of Brit Pop, a sort of Brit Flick

industry.

And there was a sort of...

There was a sort of post-Guy Ritchie, there are a lot of films.

There was a sort of rational enough finance to be made.

Which were so, so bad that you couldn't honestly believe, you know, they would take something like £30,000, £700 at the box office.

There were things like the Sex Lives of the Potato Men.

I mean, they had quite famous people in these ones.

That's Mackenzie.

Yeah, Mackenzie.

And Johnny Vegas, I think.

It was discovered

rather later on that a lot of films were, in fact, elaborate schemes where you could invest, they were tax evasion schemes.

The film itself was immaterial.

It was a sort of almost like a producer style thing.

If you invested £150K, you could get a million pounds tax relief even if it flopped, which accounted for a huge.

I'm not saying that specific film, and I'm certainly not saying this Peter Andre film, but that anyway, HMRC eventually closed that loophole.

I'd watch a film about that.

Yeah, the closing of the loophole.

About a plucky HMRC guy played by Jason Statham, closing a loophole.

There are still lots and lots of questions.

I've spoken to some various people in the industry about this.

Now, some people say, lawyers can say to you, that if you submit a budget and account to HMRC and you say, I'm going to make a movie which has theatrical release for £2.5 million, you get 500K of tax credit.

Now, so 2.5 million is the threshold

at which the government,

in order,

a very good thing, in order to bring work into the country, you get tax relief on

tax credit.

Now, if you make that film, not for 2.5 million, but for 400K, you've already made 100 grand and you've still got a film that you might be able to sell.

Okay, now that's a very crude version.

Now, this is before you factor in what still happens to a huge extent.

There's always some sucker who wants to be credited as a film producer.

Exactly.

Who would put something in?

Yeah.

There's a rich kid who thinks he's gonna play it at this for a business.

And there is criminal money that comes in.

There's cash that people and that people want to launder in various different ways.

And there are lots of producers working now who have lots and lots of films going.

You kind of need lots because you need to move it all around the accounts all the time to show that you're making a £2.5 million film, even though you're not.

This is amazing.

And they also exist in the US.

By the way, I am not saying that.

Peter Andre's film is quite high-profile ridiculously because it's got Peter Andre in it.

So it's a little bit more.

It wouldn't be high-profile if he hadn't released that trailer and everyone had gone crazy.

Now we're...

talking about it as well.

I suspect you wouldn't have done that if the whole thing was an elaborate

No, but over 500 films last year claimed this UK tax credit, saying they're intended for theatrical release.

Now, only less than 250 are theatrically released.

So you tell me what all of these other

productions that are happening are really about.

Of course, they're about the work, Richard.

But are they actually...

But if you were to release it.

in for one day in one local cinema would that count as the theatrical release is is there so

there's no greater obstacle than that?

Selected theatres.

And of course, then again, what we can talk about a little bit is this Gold Coast Film Festival.

Now, the Gold Coast Film Festival will be like all film festivals, but not like the huge ones like Cannon and TIFF or whatever Toronto, which is a whole separate thing.

But there are lots and lots of film festivals around the world that get local government funding.

And in order for them to exist, they need to have a certain amount of films that will be premiering.

There will be this whole sort of ecosystem, and they need to have a certain amount of awards that they will give out.

There are definitely prizes for all at some of those smaller.

Oh, my goodness.

Some of the prizes you can get at the Gold Coast Film Festival are like Best Australian Independent Film, Queensland Screenwriting Award, the Best Australian Web Series, Best International Web Series.

There are a huge number of awards just at that one film festival that you've never heard of, sorry, unless you're running it.

And also, again, I'm not saying this about the Gold Coast Festival, but a lot of the film festivals are money-making things, which is you pay to enter, you pay to be considered in this category, you pay to be considered in that category,

you pay to go to the ceremony, you pay to get your award.

It's a it's uh they're uh recipients of arts funding, as I say, for the fact of their existence.

If you see a very unusual film you've never heard of, and it's got like eight of those kind of laurel wreaths, yeah, and you look at the names of the places

and just go, Oh, that's interesting, and look, look at the places that gave those awards.

And then I've done this so many times because I love it.

And then you go to the website of those award ceremonies, and and it's just brilliant.

It's just you just think, my god, this is a grift.

It's an incredible

awards culture in general, it's such a huge subject, and the way that it was all run of businesses.

And it's just this entirely, as I say, it's a separate sort of ecosystem that doesn't really relate to anything at all.

And that's not just that's in everyone will have those in their industry and just think, why do we even, you know, why do we have these?

But it's a whole business, anyhow.

But yes, I'm interested that he says Peter Andrew, this is a film maybe because he's also in something called Sun, Rose, and Romance, which is a movie also starring Caprice.

Again,

you've never heard of this thing.

Okay, so how do these things make money?

Anyway, he's in something called Members' Club, which is about an aging male stripper troop.

He plays Adonis.

Members' Club.

Yeah.

Now, so it's not his film.

He's done lots and lots of these films, and lots and lots of these films exist that you have never heard of.

I've never heard of, no one's ever heard of.

Because you get extreme examples of this sometimes.

There was a film a while ago, five guys

were jailed for it called Landscape of Lies, which was to star the loose woman, Andrea MacLean.

And it was like a 2.8 million.

Landscape of Lies.

Landscape of Lies.

Come on, guys.

That's hiding in plain sight, isn't it?

And that was like a 2.8 million VAT fraud and tax fraud.

And they shot sort of seven minutes of this thing, but it was supposed to be a huge Hollywood blockbuster.

So occasionally, this industry does sort of poke its nose above the parapet, but by and large, it doesn't.

By and large, it's very hard to prove.

It's very hard to prove.

And Jafacan, by the way, we're not putting in this category at all.

It's just led us to talk about these low-budget films.

Jafacan, I'm sure, is above board.

I've worked with Peter Andre, liked him very, very much, and I wish him nothing but well.

But it leads you down a rabbit hole of a huge amount of British movies that are being made all the time.

that we never see, we never hear of again, that you can find in the darkest corners of Amazon Prime.

But given how hard it is to make a movie, there's this absolute cottage industry of unusual,

unusually shot, unusually produced British films.

What are the economics behind that?

What is happening there?

There is, yes, you're right.

There's more than one way to ask the question, how the hell did this get made?

Now, in the old days, there was a period, as we've talked about before, where you could make basically anything because you'd always get it back on DVD sales or DVD rentals or whatever, including very cheap sort of copies which you sold in the Far East or whatever it was.

You could sort of make almost anything quite bad as a Brit flip work for that reason.

And after that came Netflix and Amazon and they needed to build up libraries of content.

So you could sort of sell them.

Obviously the studios were selling them all their great stuff, but you could sell them any old rubbish really because they just needed bulk.

But for the last 10 years or so, they haven't had to do that.

So you can put it on Prime, your movie, and as I paid £3.49 for my Liz Hurley Christmas in Paris.

Well, I was on the other foot.

I watched that on Amazon Prime.

And I thought, listen, but I didn't have to pay for it.

That was really gosh.

Well, that, yeah.

Yes.

And that's quite something.

Yes, it's quite.

But nobody finds those things.

So about half of the films that are supposedly made for theatrical release in the UK every year.

quite how the money has come in, how it's been used.

But it's impossible.

It's very, very difficult to prove.

And as I should, just to restate this, I'm definitely not saying this is the case with Peter Andre's movie, which, as I say, is a high-profile thing for

his involvement.

It takes us down that rabbit hole.

It is very interesting.

I mean, it's a business to go into, isn't it?

Let's just make a series.

If Marina and I suddenly start making a series of movies with a budget of £2,500,001

and move to Golden Castles, do you want a Golden Castle?

There you go, Golden Castle.

Golden Castle,

that's our first film.

Yeah.

With Peter Council.

I'm the Clancy's.

Peter Couch is Golden Castle.

He's always banging his head on the doorway.

Well, anyway, it's an interesting thing, and we'll see how Jafakin does.

As I say, it has this one day of release.

But yes, it's not his cinematic debut, contrary to what he suggested.

It is very much not.

And you know what?

Playing that EDL member, I have to say about on the other foot, as well as, you know, it does have good heart.

There's some really good actors just doing everything.

They're giving everything they've got.

in that movie they really are i mean there's some there's it's you know it is what it is but there's uh, you know, sometimes

I know, I just felt like sometimes when you know, it's hard to be cast in a movie, and you've got these people who are clearly very good at what they're doing, and they just at the end of it, that you whether they just want to like Auror Steido is in it, the comic, um, who I really loved, but at the end, you just do you want to show your family?

I don't know.

It's uh, it's interesting.

I mean, I spoke to various people in the industry about this, and they were saying, having looked at that trailer, you can't tell everything, of course, from a trailer for Javaican.

Maybe it costs 500k, yeah, but you can tell it doesn't.

They haven't got lots of cameras.

The editing is interesting.

And it's sort of like a student film that has just been stretched to an R38 or whatever it is.

But anyway, it's an interesting world and it is an interesting entire subculture and ecosystem of films, film festivals, and things that exist that you have never, never heard of.

I didn't even know that Cabruse was a movie actress, but you know, I'm learning everything, aren't I?

Yeah, and thank you to Peter Andre for dressing up in Rastafarian clothes to draw attention to this particular corner of the British film industry.

Thank you for your service, Peter.

Shall we finish by talking about celebrity traitors?

Please, let's.

Now, I keep reading that the official list of participants has been released.

It has not.

There are lists out there, which I don't think are a million miles off the truth, but the official list has not yet to be announced.

And there are people who are going to be in this who are not on the lists I've seen.

as well.

But most of them are going to be on it.

I cannot say.

I can neither confirm nor deny who's going to be be in it, who's not going to be in it.

I'm not going to be in it.

I'll tell you, that's all I'm allowed to say.

And even that.

But it's been quite leaky.

Super leaky.

Which is worrying for them, I would say, for the producers, because it's obviously a long time between filming and transmission, which I think will be in early autumn, would it?

Again, they haven't announced it.

You would assume that the

regular traders will be in its usual slot in January.

So

you would have thought it would be late September, early October, something like that.

They're certainly certainly they're filming as we speak.

Shall we work out who's going to win it?

Yes, please.

That's all I wanted to

do.

Announcing some of the names.

So, if you haven't seen these names,

as I say,

there will be others.

Some of the biggest names, Stephen Fry is in there, Claire Balding is in there, Jonathan Ross is in there.

I can't see

the big names, the big personalities.

But can I just say, before we even go any further,

this is the ultimate prestige show.

It's a great line.

You couldn't get this.

This is reality TV, as I said before when we were talking about it, you know, back near Christmas.

Reality TV has become prestige.

And this is the most prestige of all of them by a million miles.

To look at those people, it's not like people, no offense to people who used to be on Love Island, but you know, you get all these people and you're like, I've never heard of this person.

And you may fall in love with them during the course of Strictly or whatever it is, but you don't know who they are.

You know who basically most people on this list are.

Yes.

Because you couldn't not.

And because they all sat at home, watched it, loved the show, and thought, that's a game I would like to play.

It's like an experience I would like to have.

It's not going to be have the privations of a of a big brother or a I'm a celebrity get me out of here.

It is literally would you like to come and play a game in a show that you love.

I was very early on I talked to the producers of it.

The guy I suggested who's in there, I'm so happy he's in there, is Joe Marlowe, the rugby player.

Yes.

So I think a lot of people don't know.

Joe Marlow, people who know him, but you know, rugby fans know him and he's got a bunch of podcasts.

They've got Joe Marlowe.

But why did you suggest him?

I suggested him because he's a very different presence to lots of people.

He has a very overt masculinity, but he also has a very, very front and center vulnerability, which I just think gives him a great energy for traitors.

As a traitor or as a faithful, I think he's going to...

If he is a faithful, he will track down the traitors till his dying day.

He will dive into a ditch to get those traitors, Joe Marla.

So I thought he would be a great booking for them.

And then they said, because I'd just been working with Celia Emery on Thursday Murder Club, and we said, oh, we'd really love Celia Emery.

What do you think?

And I love Celia Emery.

She's so

mischievous.

She's so naughty.

I think being an actor is...

There are a few actors in this.

I think being an actor is a huge advantage.

Just if we can talk about maybe some things as we're going through the names.

Absolutely.

I think that also Mark Bonner's in this, who I absolutely love.

I love him so much.

But if you're a good actor, I and Celia Rimery, obviously, I think you are at an advantage.

But

how long until the Stephen Fry's of this world, even though they know the format inside out and even they know the industry inside out, how long before even they are forced to say, yeah, but don't forget she's an actor and they're really good at lying.

Normally the person who portrays themselves as the cleverest person gets kicked out

in the first round table.

The clever, the clever people are going

in a heartbeat.

Yeah.

And Stephen Fry's personal brand is, you know, I'm I'm clever.

Yeah, exactly.

So

they might leave him alone for a bit because it's too obvious to get rid of him.

And I honestly think they will play differently because there is a hierarchy of celebrity respect, and it's very different.

The ways in which it's different to the civilian show

are manifold, and they will play.

There is a hierarchy of respect that you just don't kick out Stephen Fry on the first day.

Exactly.

Or Celia Emery.

You've got, you know, Celia Emery.

Although there will be players here, Queen of the House.

Yeah.

Yes.

I would say.

Shall I tell you a few people I think might win?

Okay.

Joe Wilkinson, I think, might win.

He's brilliant.

I love to see Joe Wilkinson.

I tell you, the combination he's got that makes him perfect for traitors is he acts like he's quite stupid, but he's incredibly clever.

Well, that's what I was going to say about Lucy Beaumont.

Yes.

Yeah.

There's an agent.

There's a sort of chaotic kind of am I, you know, scatter shot, am I whatever?

But actually, they're very, very quick and clever.

Yeah.

So I think both of those are in with a shout.

Now, the person who has got everything

uh enabled to win is nick muhammad because nick muhammad uh is from ted lasso and a great comic as well and a great actor now nick muhammad is does incredible memory feats he's incredibly good at reading people you know he's cold reading all those types of things he can do sort of everything nick uh but i feel like that's going to get found they people are going to know that there's always someone in traders who people clearly can see uh is is a tactical genius and i think nick will spot every single person doing every single thing he won't unlike the ones, there's always a they have so often in reality TV like this, they have a character who says, well, I'm a psychic.

He's wrong about everything.

This is the actual sort of more scientific version of that, which I think is, yeah, I think that's a, you're right.

I mean, no one here can pretend to be Welsh because that's part of the thing.

We all know.

People know who people are.

It's a very, everyone knows who everyone is.

And if they don't, they will have, you know, tried to find out before their phone was snatched from them.

Yeah.

We've got Paloma Faith, we've got Tom Daly.

Again, these are sort of wild cards, I would say.

Tom Daly is a definitely a wild card.

They could stay until late, though.

Yeah, because

you just sort of go under the radar.

We know how to win traitors.

Nico Omilana

is our YouTuber.

He ran for London Mayor and he got more votes than Lawrence Fox.

Yeah, he did quite well.

Yeah, he got 50,000 votes.

I think he got his deposit back.

So he'll be interesting.

David Olisoga, one of our Gohanger stable

historian, yes.

That will be interesting.

Yes.

Because again, a super, super bright guy and will be respected by everybody.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, listen, you never know.

He could do it.

I think, honestly, I think that I think Joe Wilkinson or Lucy Beaumont will win it.

That's my opinion.

But I think there's people here that people will fall in love with as well.

But great bookings.

I mean, genuinely.

It's so.

Okay, first, I will say that.

Yes, obviously, the bookings are incredible.

And if they are, as they, and if there are even more people we don't yet know about.

In terms of how their celebrity will affect the gameplay, I think that is interesting.

This is not their primary career.

I am not, I think people love this show so much.

And I was actually talking to someone pretty high up in this business who said,

I think that many of them have made a mistake and they don't realize how exposing it is.

You know, how you can go to pieces because it is, you know, you see them every year, the same thing happens, and they have to remind themselves it's a game, but it's so intense and it's such a sort of sealed experience.

They're sorted together 17 hours a day.

I mean, there's no...

I don't think, I think there are many people on this list who I won't name that I think could go to pieces.

And I think it would be, and also could, obviously, I don't think they're going to destroy their careers and they'll be kindly edited and what have you, but they could.

undermine their public persona to a significant extent.

I really, I think it'll be really interesting.

It's so, it's such a siren call, this format, because people absolutely love it and they think, oh, it's fun, I could do it.

You know, as you say, I'm in the castle, you know, it's, but I do think that some of them should have feared more to tread and I think it's really interesting and it'll be interesting because of that I do think that if you're an actor it helps you I definitely think it's an actor I think if you're a comic it really helps you because you can you know

we've even seen with politics if you're funny you can you know any line of questioning you can deflect if you're funny you can you know you can take the heat off in a conversation by saying something funny and everybody laughing I think I think being a comic might be more useful than being an actor but in being one of those sort of your primary career being something like I don't know, Jonathan Ross, where you're, you know, you're a person who often deals with lots of different personalities.

You can see him getting quite quickly into some sort of father-ish role.

And there are people knowing what you want,

in a way, much quicker than might happen, although it obviously goes at quite a pace in the civilian version.

And

some people have said, oh, I wish they wouldn't do a celebrity version, which I absolutely get.

I think this is one of the few shows that really, really, really will benefit from having a celebrity version.

It will be very different.

It will be a different version of the game.

And it will be a different version of the game because a lot of these people go in, a lot of these people really, really know each other.

A lot of these people are genuine friends and have worked together.

You know, Jonathan Russ and Alan Carr have worked together a million times.

Joe Wilkinson and Lucy have worked together a million times.

Lots of people really know each other and that gives a completely different flavour and a completely different vibe to the show.

We know what the show is.

We know how it works.

We know the different stages of it.

And we know the early kind of sparring bits that don't matter quite so much and people just putting themselves in position.

But when people already know each other, and as you say, when there is an obvious status from the second you go in, it just makes it a different game.

I was, as you say, it's it is a siren call.

I was deeply tempted to do it, deeply tempted to do it more than any other show.

But

I wouldn't enjoy it if I wasn't a traitor.

I don't think.

As a producer, I'd be aware that half the show was going on.

I was asked on the Irish one, and my children were like, they literally couldn't understand why

they couldn't believe anyone would say no.

And I said, oh, no.

I mean, I, you know, my anxiety dream is that I'm on reality TV.

But just

very, very exposing.

For the sake of the podcast, you should have done it.

So should you.

Yeah, listen, I do all sorts of TV for the sake of the podcast.

Oh, my God, you'd love to sell it.

And I thank you for that service every week.

I was very, very, very tempted to do it.

And I genuinely think it's going to be great.

I really think it's going to be a great show.

I think it's going to be fascinating.

I think you're absolutely right that everyone thinks they can probably handle it.

But once you're in that situation I suspect it might be very very hard and yeah if I if I had some great television moments Richard is all I'm saying yeah yeah I mean it's going to be great but yeah if I had to put money on someone it'd be either Joe or Lucy to win the whole thing but the beauty of the traitors is you never know when you know someone comes out of you know

a clear blue sky to win it but I'm genuinely aware of it and it's amazing we're talking about it in you know April

that's what the show's become it's so enormous that you're talking about just

a relatively speculative cast list.

But I think it's, you know,

it is.

Listen, the final castlist is not a million miles from this.

It really, really isn't.

All the names have not yet been revealed, I will say that.

But yeah, it's right in the middle of our popular culture, and it's great, and that's to be celebrated.

I always think.

And, you know, Christmas in Paradise, Jafakin, celebrity traitors.

I mean, what a rich culture we have.

What a cultural web we have woven.

We are very, very lucky to to live in these times I'll say that any recommendations this week race across the world sorry

ah it's back talking a brilliant in the middle of our culture absolutely it's begin get into it it's just started and they drop it now once a week I think is that right yes yeah and they tell they tell such beautiful stories on that as well and they really they

pace them out yeah every time you're like what an interesting idea for a pairing yeah it's really really anyway so get into that if you feel like it's a lot i'm going to to double up on that recommendation.

I think it's absolutely terrific.

Marina, thank you.

We've got a question and answer edition on Thursday.

You get them earlier if you remember.

But I'll see you then.

See you on Thursday.

Well, that brings us to the end of another episode of The Wrestlers Entertainment, brought to you by our friends at Skype.

I have been catching up on The Last of Us Us recently, such a gripping watch.

Absolutely right.

The critics are fairly unanimous.

It's dark and intense, brilliantly done, they're all saying, especially on your skyglass with its high quality screen.

Yeah, even those very low-lit scenes, every flicker, every detail, it really pulls you in.

One minute you'll be stretched out on the sofa, the next you'll be gripping the cushion, and that is not a euphemism.

The picture quality really just brings everything to life from the comfort of your living room.

It feels properly cinematic, like the room fades away and you're in the thick of it.

Until the clickers show up, then it feels a bit too real.

Well, that's when you reach for the blanket.

The perfect night in.

Couldn't agree more.

So, for anyone wanting to upgrade this screen time, head to sky.com and check out Sky TV.

Después Platy Carlo, Isabel vusco paquetes a viagen expedia.

And describing that reservoir juntas suueloy podri adaptar sal presu puesto deana.

Yello, Mayami.

Vives para vijar contus amigos.

Vi vimos para freser paquetes de debuelo yotel pormenos.

Expedia.

Vimos para vijar.