Marina's A-List

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Hello and welcome to this episode of the Resters Entertainment Questions and Answers Edition.

I'm Marina Hyde.

And I'm Richard Osman.

Hello, Marina.

Hello, Richard.

How are you?

Very well.

Lots of questions to get through today from our wonderful listeners.

We have

on YouTube.

Yes.

Marina, I have a question for you from Olivia Buckley.

Yes.

I put out a call last week for people to start using their first name and surname, otherwise I would essentially assign a surname to them and Olivia Buckley has paid attention.

Fitting people with surnames whether they want it in them or not.

Exactly.

I mean everyone wants a surname, don't they, really?

Yes.

I mean maybe not Madonna.

Olivia Buckley says, I originally started watching Grey's Anatomy only 20 years late.

Doesn't matter you can watch things whenever you want these days.

In series seven, there was an episode filmed in a mockumentary style, breaking the typical episode conventions of your standard medical drama.

I'd all but forgotten about bottle episodes, be it elaborate dream sequences, musical numbers, or focusing on a totally random character.

Why did they do this?

Is it to help break up the series, allow the wider narrative to shift to another focus?

Was it an outlet for the writer's creativity, or just an attempt to push boundaries?

Normally, it's none of those things, it's really just to save money.

Well, a bottle episode is slightly different to what Olivia's talking about here, I think.

Yes.

So, define a bottle episode.

For me, a bottle episode, and it actually came from somebody, the mayor of some American TV producer, saying, We had to sort of pull an episode out of a bottle like a genie.

Because when you were making these long 26-part series, sometimes you'd have an expensive episode or, you know, you'd have various guest stars.

And then suddenly, clearly, you have to allocate your budget across the series.

So if you spent more on one episode, then you're going to have to cut back somewhere else.

You'd only have your very core cast, or even sometimes you only have like a couple of your core cast, and they're often trapped somewhere, like maybe they're stuck in a room.

It's not an expensive setting.

If you've ever seen, like, you've noticed quite often throughout the new iteration, not the newest, but since Doctor Who came back back originally when Russell T.

Davis originally brought it back with Christopher Eccleston, you watch all of those series and you'll see they've had some massive Internet Galactic Battle episode and then suddenly like everyone's stuck in a library in the next.

Now, that's not to denigrate those types of episodes at all.

And it's

that's the beauty of them.

As long as you have one every time,

and how many people will say that necessity is the mother of invention and that great stuff comes from these, it's always a budgetary restriction that has forced doing something like that so that you have money for elsewhere.

It's really interesting.

Recently, just because I love the episode and I haven't seen it for so long, I thought, well, I must watch Pine Barons, which is that amazing episode of The Sopranos where Christopher and Paulie are lost in the sort of snow in the forest.

And you think that that's the whole episode.

It's really weird.

In my memory, it's almost become a sort of bottle episode.

And actually, when I went back, I was like, God, it's not that much of it.

It's not as much of the episode as I remember.

You know, you see Tony and Comela, you see all this other stuff happening, but it's so overwhelming that idea of those two characters, you hadn't seen them necessarily in that configuration.

And then obviously they were completely out of their comfort zone.

And it's really odd.

It's like, oh my God, it's not actually a bottle of episode, but many people remember it as such, I think.

There's a really good one of Parks and Recreation where Ron Swanson and Leslie Knope, obviously played by Nick Offerman and Amy Pola.

They're sort of stuck in the office all night.

And it's just a two-hander.

It's really incredible.

I mean, it's an amazing episode.

And obviously, because those two represent really different ideas of like big than small government.

And anyway, it's really interesting the way they work through the night together.

There's a West Wing episode.

I think it's called Something Like 17 People and they're all stuck in the West Wing overnight and they have to work out whether or not they're going to raise the terror threat.

They will bump heads and blah blah.

I'm trying to think of the other great ones.

There's one where Peggy and Don Draper, there's one called The Suitcase.

They're all working on the Samsonite account, I think.

They eventually have these various breakthroughs, I suppose, in their relationships and their views of life.

There's that episode of Breaking Bad.

The fly.

Yes, The Fly, where I think I've read about this once.

They were stuck on the location somewhere.

Vince Gilligan said I couldn't really get them to the next place.

And we were sort of stuck between things.

So I had the pair of them and they were just stuck in this location the last episode.

and then there's the sort of fly in the fly in the room the second the door locks you think oh it's a bottle episode i remember family guy doing a brilliant bottle episode with stewie and brian and the joke being you of course at family guy you don't need a bottle episode because it's uh the the locations i mean it isn't you've got to draw different backgrounds but a lot of those are reused i almost remember the brilliant jimmy mulville who ran hat trick he was the producer on alast smith and jones mel smith and grifferies jones and the most famous thing about that show the thing that most people remember are those shots with the two of them with their heads really really close together against a black background and jimmy was saying well you know it was was a sketch show.

We do all these things.

We were sort of three minutes short per show and zero money left in the budget.

So I just said, listen, let's just stick the two of you in front of a camera with a black background and we'll just write some stuff.

And he said, that became the biggest, the most famous, most successful bit of the video.

It defined it really.

And it was ripped off beyond all, you know, it just became, we didn't have the word meme then, but it was a meme.

It was very memeable.

And yeah, if they'd had the money to do a, you know, a Bridgeton rip-off, they would have done that instead.

But instead, it was just two people in a room.

But I think Olivia is also talking about that thing that you get after a few series of something where suddenly, yeah, there'll be a musical episode or there'll be a live episode.

And I think that comes from when you sign up for one of those big shows, like Grey's Anatomy, something like that, you are signing up for a minimum of seven seasons.

And that's a lot of actors.

That's a lot of talent behind the camera, director, writers, all sorts of things.

And there comes a point where you've really proved what you are as a show and, you know, you're making money for everybody.

There's a sort of creative itch.

that goes, we've got this massive thing that everyone's watching.

There'd always be someone in the writer's room who's, you know, just written the book for a musical.

And there'd always be, you know, someone on staff, whoever the composer is, to say, I can knock you off a few things.

And so it's one of those things, it sort of comes with success where you go, we have earned the right now to do a very unusual standout episode.

It keeps everybody sweet.

He's getting quite bored of going around the same circle every week.

I think exactly that.

Season six is on.

You look at the scripts, there's 20 episodes, and like episode 12, you go, oh, that's a musical.

Oh, oh, that's quite fun.

And yeah, so it just

gives everybody.

Well, going up to someone's cabin in the woods.

Yeah.

The woodside cabin gets a lot of these happens an awful lot guys i just won a competition and the prize is the use of a cabin and everyone's like my uncle has a cabin right yeah yes that's something you don't get on british tv where people go guys just come up to my lakeside cabin because everyone go what what do you mean you're lakeside what are you talking about caravans though are a fixture they are caravans in in real and what have you but yeah that's absolutely just a thing of well firstly keeping the talent suite but secondly people can get bored of a show people can get bored of the same thing and of formula.

And occasionally just dropping in something different can be refreshing.

That's why Have I Got News for You is still such a huge hit.

Funnily enough, having a different host every week is the thing that absolutely has kept that show, you know, so current and so high up in the ratings as well.

A little bit of novelty every now and again keeps everybody sweet.

You could not fit a better surname here because Maya Sharone

says, why do pop songs have so many writers?

Am I right to be skeptical on every person having helped out?

I mean, in the 60s, there were teams of writers, you know, Holland Dozier Holland and all those groups and you know they would write together and you know they put music out for so say you know a Motown song you know Holland Dozier Holland would write that so it's three writers.

Then you get to 70s and 80s and people started sort of writing their own material.

So Elvis would never really write his own songs.

He's always got writers writing for him.

You get to 70s and 80s people start writing their own material.

Either the lead singer of the band or like the whole band would be credited.

And bands where it's just the lead singer tend to fall apart quicker because the lead singer suddenly becomes incredibly rich and the rest of the band don't you know a cold play type band where everyone's getting equal credit they tend to stick together because they're all billionaires at the same time what happens now so much music is collaborative now we talked before about the absolute collapse of bands in the 21st century and how almost all number one signals now are soloists or soloists featuring various people and firstly you've got the your original artist who might have a couple of writers and themselves you've got the person coming in to do a rap they got themselves and someone else maybe they work with but the big thing has been samples so the big thing is so much of modern music modern r b modern hip-hop is composed of samples and every single time you sample something that has to be included on the writing credit if you're beyonc you want to sample a motown song then already the credits are beyoncé holland dozier holland you've already got four people before you've got the other people who Beyonce is happening to collaborate it with on this album.

I think songwriting has got much more collaborative because studios are now such an interesting creative space and a more democratic democratic space than they used to be.

Because the producer of a song was always not dictatorial, but they're a gatekeeper because it complicated the thing that they were doing.

And now, with the software, lots and lots of people can say that they're not going to be able to do that.

Sometimes they were dictatorial.

Oh, of course, they were because, you know, like a theater director, isn't it?

You know, Beyonce's album, I think there's 24, you know, for Alien Superstar, for example, it's got 24 credited songwriters.

Now, there'll be a few of Beyonce's collaborators, they'll be the producer, but then there'll be every single writer of every single sample in that song.

And so it's not 24 people sitting in a room doing the same thing but yeah essentially the thing is if you change a single word used to be change a word get a third so some of our favorite boy bands and girl bands they would be given a song listen i'm mentioning absolutely no names they would be given a song and you know there'd be like a sort of beauty parade of songs would be played to them by songwriters and they'd choose one they like and then they go oh instead of this thing saying i love you so much i think i would say i love you very much that's the whole 90s basically the whole 90s and then then they give interviews saying we're different because we write our own music we write our own stuff it's really calamitous

and if you are the songwriter by the way whose song has gone in there and the record company says yeah we absolutely love it just so you know person x from this band has changed a couple of the lines so they will be getting 50 of the thing well as a songwriter either no one is doing your song and you're getting nothing or that group is doing your song and you're getting 50 of what is hopefully a big hit.

There are, of course, you know, Gary Bardo writes his own songs and there were examples of people in those groups who do write their own songs.

But there's more examples of people who are credited on all sorts of big hits who, yeah, essentially.

Maybe did not even say a word.

Write a word, get a third.

Ed Sheeran did Perfect in 2017, and he's the sole songwriter on that.

But when he did a version with Beyoncé, she changes the gender of a couple of lines.

But that is credited to Ed Sheeran and Beyonce as songwriters.

And so it's...

World on Mr.

Entertainment Lawyer.

Or might be a lady.

Mrs.

It might be an unmarried lady.

Yeah.

It might be Miss.

yeah entertainment lawyer so many so many options so yeah it's one of those things the world of songwriting has changed one thing that hasn't changed is you get teams of songwriters you always used to in timpan alley and all that they're you know having certainly pairs there were loads of loads of trios as well in the motown era and by the time you've got four samples on something and your own people and there's three people on all of those it's very quick to get up to 15, 16, 17, 18 writers on something.

I was listening to a new Manix album, which I like very much.

And there's a beautiful song called The Decline and Fall, and I was looking at the credits for that on Spotify.

I always click on who wrote the song because there's always interesting stories.

And it has Difford and Tilbrook on there.

And Difford and Tilbrook, as our older listeners will know, were the songwriters behind Squeeze.

And it's because they use the distinctive guitar part from Call for Cats on that.

And so Difford and Tilbrook are...

joint songwriters on that and will get equal share of the money.

Famously, Bittersweet Symphony by The Verve, all their money really went to the Rolling Stones, or at least Andrew Lou Oldham, because they used an orchestral version of a stone song that he had arranged so it's yeah if you are at all interested in modern music you do want to use samples you do want to reference the past you do want to use things that have been done before and if you do that suddenly there's more and more and more and more writers right everybody i think we should go to a break now although i understand i've been set some terrible test later you are we had a lovely question a couple of weeks ago about um what constitutes an a-list star i think leonie beck wrote in and said that her and her husband argue about what a list is and you said that you could literally be given the name of any actor and tell me if they were A-list or not.

So I will be Leonie.

Keep listening because I'm going to be putting Marina to the test right after this.

Oh, this could be quite, I'm sorry.

I apologise in advance.

Oh, you love it.

You're going to get to play God.

Yeah, you're right.

My revolution is happening after the break.

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Oh, time jump.

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Welcome back, everybody.

Marina, are you ready?

I'm as ready as I will ever be.

Excellent.

Leni Beck, a couple of weeks ago, her and her husband argue about what's a list or not.

We had a little chat about it, but I said I'm going to set you a challenge.

You said you could tell me if anyone was A-list or not.

I wish I had a gavel.

I've just realized, but never mind.

Everyone at home, see if you agree or disagree with Marina's options.

So I'm going to give you a list of actors.

Can I just say, say A-list or not A-list.

I'm going to say what strikes me in the moment.

This is like one of those things where you're trying, you know, we just have to react to pictures or whatever it is.

Are the following actors?

A list, B-list, or C-list.

Let's go.

Your first actor is Idris Elber.

B.

Killian Murphy.

Oh, B.

Come on.

Florence Pugh.

B.

And that's, yeah, B.

No, she's B.

Yeah.

I hope this is not just Marina saying B the whole time.

Okay, no, no, carry on.

I'll get that from a Chris Packham podcast.

Zendaya.

A.

Can open a movie.

Don't worry, carry on.

Jennifer Lawrence.

A.

Actually, falling, but she's had two very big franchises: A.

Pedro Pascal.

B.

TV style mainly.

Barry Kogan.

Fantastic fork, changer.

Oh, Barry Kyogan.

No, B, come on.

I.O.

Adebari.

No, B, if that.

Obviously, an interesting one.

Vin Diesel.

A.

Sorry.

It's a massive franchise.

You don't make the rules, right?

And if I did anywhere, I'd put him in.

Come on.

What are we talking about?

Rachel Zegler.

Oh, no.

I mean, B and Falling, I'm afraid.

Death Patel.

What?

No.

I mean,

I love...

Very nice, but B, C.

Okay, here we go.

Friend of the podcast, Glenn Powell.

B rising.

Strongly rising.

Still B, though.

Still B.

Yeah, come on.

A couple of years' time, they'll be going, can't remember when Glenn Powell was B list.

Well, it won't be through wand of trying if they aren't.

Let's put it that way.

Talking of Glenn Powell, Sidney Sweeney.

Again, B Rising, both of them, you know, but they haven't yet got those kind of open movie roles.

We have to see if they can do it.

On the cusp, cuspy.

Tom Hardy.

B.

Al Pacino.

Oh, come on.

Okay.

A, but heritage.

I mean, he's not opening a movie now, is he?

I mean, yeah.

Heritage A.

A heritage.

It's a special category.

If you hadn't said A at that word, that would be.

Well, that's A star.

Come on.

A heritage.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Don Cheadle.

No.

We're not even giving him a letter.

He's getting a B.

Dustin Hoffman.

A heritage, come on.

Okay.

Saussure Ronan.

I love her, but B, I mean, you know, yes, I mean, it's art house, isn't it?

Natalie Portman.

Used to be A, now B.

Okay, Viola Davis.

A, maybe.

A, maybe.

Yeah, A.

This guy's got a clue in his name, Michael B.

Jordan.

R.

A.

Michael A.

Jordan.

You're saying, wow.

Michael A.

Jordan.

Yeah, definitely.

Olivia Coleman.

Sorry.

I mean, amazing, but B.

Amazing, but B.

Well, because, you know, it's

she's not.

Of course, she should win all the awards and the Oscars and whatever, but I don't think of her as a sort of A-lister in that sense.

So you think she's many things, but she's not Sylvester Stallone.

Yeah, and I think she probably loves that.

Yeah.

Sylvester Stallone.

Oh, A Heritage.

Amy Lee Wood.

What?

No, I mean, doesn't raid.

Well, sorry, I know she's had a terrible week, so I don't want to mean to add to it, but no, I mean, she's a part in an ensemble on a television programme.

Okay.

The end.

Robert De Niro.

Heritage.

See them all to Knights.

Andrew Garfield.

I love him, but B.

And we're going to end with this one.

Interesting one.

Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds.

Both A.

Both A.

Yeah.

But would they be A without the other?

Does a rising tide raise all ships in that relationship?

That's difficult, isn't it?

I don't know.

Yes, they're sort of somehow have been greater than the sum of their parts, I think.

It's a double A.

I think they're both overrated.

No, listen, it's good.

I don't think he's a good guy at all, actually.

But yeah, I don't think he's...

I don't get a good vibe off him.

Okay, I don't mean that kind of awesome.

Just like a celebrity monster, you know, think when you become very, very famous.

I think that's the problem with those two, but yeah, they're very, very famous.

You did that very quickly.

I got through the entire list of people.

That's very, very impressive.

I mean, some of those, I honestly think, in retrospect, because I didn't know who was coming next.

I was trying to sort of always calibrate against the ones before, so I never knew who was coming next.

You know, I could have definitely had a couple of C's and D's in there.

But that doesn't mean that, you know, I don't love them as an actor, but we have to be honest about what type of star they are.

Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks, Sandra Bullock.

Oh, I mean, well, Sandra Bullock, I mean, I love her, but yeah, I I mean, she's heritage A now.

Tom Cruise and Tom Hanks are still A.

Aniston.

Well, I mean, Aniston, Anniston's A.

I should think she could open movies still.

Yeah.

She just likes doing, you know, brands now, as far as I can work out, fitness brands and things like that.

Listen, that's easier than acting, isn't it?

Yeah, I think so.

Leonie, thank you so much for a question from two weeks ago.

And Marina, congratulations.

That was very, very good.

Okay, Richard, for you.

Laura Harper would like to know something about first editions.

On auction sites, it seems that the most expensive antiquated books are first editions.

What does this mean?

Is a first edition always a set amount of books?

How are they distributed compared to others?

Does the author get a say on where those go and who they're distributed to?

So first editions, yeah, absolutely.

They're very much the most expensive books you can find.

And The Real Sweet Spot is an incredibly famous book that wasn't very successful.

at the time.

So if you take the first Harry Potter, The Philosopher's Stone, this is a book where lots of books will go straight to paperback.

A few books will go to hardback and Philosopher Stone did that.

But if it's an unknown author and people don't know if it's going to go well, they might publish 1,000, 2,000, something like that.

A very small print run.

A very small print run.

And so in 30 years' time, and that's the first edition.

And when that all sells out and actually people like it, the next print run is 3,000 and then 5,000.

And the very first editions of the Harry Potter books, for example, which have a few...

typos in them which gets changed for the for the next edition are worth an absolute fortune because there was very few of them and it became immensely popular and successful afterwards.

It'll say first edition, first printing as well.

That's the absolute key.

Whenever a year it comes out, you'll do a certain amount and then if it's successful, you'll do more.

That'll be the second printing or the second edition and then more and more and more.

So, you know, the key thing is, well, two things firstly, a book like Harry Potter, a more modern book, if it didn't sell a huge amount of the time, but now has sold millions upon millions, those are worth an awful lot of money.

And then the older books, you take like an Ian Fleming or something like that, which again, the first ones didn't sell as well as you might think.

And so if you can get an original first edition of Ian Fleming, they are worth an absolute fortune, especially we talked about this the other day, if you get them in the dust jacket.

Yeah.

Because very, very, very few dust jackets survive from anywhere.

And there's American first editions, there's UK first editions.

So see how many books there are.

See if it's in a dust jacket.

See what sort of state it is in.

And there's all sorts of things like

Gatsby.

There's a, on the very first ever dust jacket of the great Gatsby, there's a typo.

One of the letters is in lowercase, that should be in uppercase.

And so you know you've got yourself a first edition there because people try there's all sorts of people are never quite sure with dust jackets, they put them on different ones or there's various fakes and things out there.

The most expensive first edition ever, really, is it a first edition?

Shakespeare's first folio.

And at the time there were 750 of them, but as you can imagine, very few of those still exist.

And one sold at auction for £9 million.

So that's what you'd be paying for a first edition of that.

Now, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, again, a book that didn't sell like crazy in its first edition, there's only about 22 copies still in existence.

So that sold for two and a half million as well.

So there's all those sort of things out in there.

Now, before you get first editions, there are also proofs.

There are things like that.

There are special editions that different bookshops will put out.

But if you have a book that was big at the time, then even the first edition is not really going to be worth a lot of money.

If you, for example, you know, have a first edition of an early John LeCarrey book, then you've got yourself some money.

If you've got a copy of a John Le Carrier book, a first edition, anytime after the spy who came in from the cold, which was his huge hit and suddenly all this book seller load, it's worth an awful lot less money, even with a signature on it.

So you want to get those authors who are huge now, but who had a first couple of books were not huge, and you can make an absolute bomb.

Goldsborough books in London do.

special one-off limited editions, first editions of lots of books.

And there's a club you can join where you get sent them.

Those are the sorts of things that if you wanted to collect books for any other reason other than just reading them, if you did think, well, maybe this would be an investment, it's collecting those one-off first editions.

But collecting first editions of books that are going to be number one in the hardback chart, absolutely no point doing it.

It's collecting those very unusual one-offs and you know, authors that are going to be famous.

That's the key.

So, like with art, it's, you know, if there's an author that you love and you think that everyone's going to love them in 10 years' time, then buy the earliest edition of whatever book you can find by them.

I actually, I have a first edition of T.S.

Eliot's four quartets, and they were given to me by my grandmother

because because she had them from the first time around.

And so I love, and it's also a poem I absolutely completely love.

So I think I find that really, really special.

But I read it, I read those all the time.

Yeah, Ingrid got me as a present an American first edition of my favorite book ever, A Month in the Country, as well.

And again, it's not one of those ones, but it's just, it's such a special...

lovely, beautiful thing to have.

Yeah, it's in the original cover.

We both love those things.

Yes,

I'm not someone who would be motivated to in that way, but I really love that this is kind of, there's something very evocative about just this kind of these little paper pamphlets because

they're very short.

And it's the thing that came out at the time.

And also, if you do have books, keep them in a good condition because there's vanishingly few books from the 20s, 30s that are in a good condition.

So, you know, in 100 years' time, if you've got that books that are in good condition, then your great, great, great-grandchildren, not to quote year 3000 by Busted, might make a lot of money from them.

I can imagine you going into a small sort of chilled room with the white gloves to read them among the cups.

Oh, I don't read them.

Oh, you don't, I don't read my

goodness.

Yeah, no, don't be silly.

I think that concludes us for today.

But if you're a member of our club, which you can sign up to at therestisentertainment.com, we are back with the second part of our malarial, about the only thing that doesn't hit the production, our kind of lunatic recounting of the disastrous shoot of the island of Dr.

Moreau.

I loved part one.

I'm very much looking forward to part two.

But if you're not, we will, as always, always, see you next Tuesday.

Because we love you too.

See you next Tuesday.

Well, that wraps up another episode of The Wrestlers Entertainment, brought to you by our friends at Sky.

Now, what have you got on your must-watch list at the moment, right?

At the moment, White Lotus enjoying the latest season.

Oh my god, it's incredible.

incredible it's so good a dark treat a dark treat the visuals are really great and with your skyglass tv you'll be able to enjoy it all in its 4k glory and also the built-in sound bar means you can also listen to it in its full whatever the sound version of 4k glory is but it sounds immense i'll say that it is indeed it brings everything to life and it really gives that cinema experience at home it feels like jason isaacs is in your house like sometimes i go downstairs i'm like jason isaacs come on man cup of tea please but he's not there no But for our listeners who want to experience this with Skyglass 2, visit sky.com to find out more.