Millie Bobby Brown Has Had Enough

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Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment with me, Marina Hyde.

And me, Richard Osman.

Hello, Marina.

How lovely to see you.

How lovely to see you you too, as always.

How are you?

Yeah, I'm all right.

I'm not bad.

Ingrid has been away all week filming a new Netflix thing, so I've literally just been writing the book and watching the entire series of Drive to Survive.

Which I have seen.

It is compelling.

It's really good.

It's really well made.

You know, even though I know the results.

Yeah.

I love it.

Can I ask you a question about your week?

Yes, you can.

What is that snack that you have?

Because we've talked about our extruded mango snack.

I think you found an even worse Spotify snack.

I have got, well, I've got two snacks here.

One, I I want to say it's 9am on a Monday morning, so that's not very nice, is it?

But one is a roasted fava bean pieces, which is super healthy, surely, because certainly not super tasty.

But look, Spotify have provided us both with an entire thing of sour gummies, like a really quite...

substantial size jar which is again great with a coffee at 9am i never go without that's a gesture from spotify to apologize for the father beans no

yeah i mean i think you know we've got a sort of there's no deficit everything's just sort of cancelled out really with these snacks yeah we start even what are we talking about this week well first of all i think you might have exciting news about the title later on of the new thursday murder card book yes after the break i'll i will reveal that title god people won't be able to people be fast forwarding they won't believe it uh yeah it's it's literally just finished and we have a title so i'll be revealing that but more importantly we're talking about snow white the live-action snow white movie which started in a sort of blaze of this is going to make a billion dollars.

And over the years of it being in production,

every single wheel has fallen off.

It comes out this week and we'll talk about quite why those wheels have fallen off.

Very good.

We're also going to talk about the Facebook book, Careless People, which is a sort of whistleblowing expose of life at Facebook, now Meta, by the former director of global public policy, Sarah Wynne-Williams.

Also, Facebook's attempt how to publish a book in total secret, which is what the publishers did, and Facebook's attempt to retrospectively stop that.

Yeah, Facebook being the Barbara Streisand of the piece.

Yes.

And also talking about Millie Bobby Brown.

Yes, Millie Bobby Brown, who has been the sort of subject of quite relentless attention on her appearance, saying she looks old, whatever, and who therefore has recorded a video in which she called out lots of people by name who write these articles or have said certain things.

And we're going to talk about that whole thing.

I think it's a really, I actually think that's a very interesting subject.

In a packed show today.

In a packed show today.

Can we begin by sorting out what is real and what is not about Disney's supposed woke disaster movie?

Snow White.

Some facts.

I think it was greenlit in 2021.

It has cost at least 270 million without marketing, so that's going to take it to sort of 455.

Half a billion.

The tracking, which is what tells you, as you know, listeners, in advance, how much something might make

and how well something might open, is saying that it might take $53 million domestic on its opening weekend, which is next weekend.

That is definitely not good enough when they've spent all this money.

And why?

Because

Disney are so woke.

That's what's happened.

Can we do the timeline of what's happened?

Because I think we actually need to go back to...

Yes, because I know it's Green Lit in 21, but really

it's been on

the card since about 2016.

That's when it was first mooted, which is, you know, Disney had hits with these live-action things.

They've done Maleficent, Cinderella, things like that.

So it was an absolute no-brainer at that point.

Of course, we're going to do a live-action version.

Their most iconic one in some ways.

Or the ones that started it all.

And they have, as we say, we've gone back through their back catalogue and are sort of revitalizing them by, or not,

by making these live-action versions.

It's about as easy as a green light.

as you're going to get remaking Snow White after a series of

hit live-action things.

And yet, 10 years later, here we stand.

So 2016 is when it was first mooted.

I think 2019 is when it went in to production and when they started getting...

It was announced in 2021, actually.

So I think...

It was announced that Rachel Zegler would be playing Snow White.

And people, there was some sort of, you know, people are always looking to have a backlash against Disney for anything, really, because it's not like other studios for all sorts of different reasons.

And also, MAGA, MAGA loves picking a fight with Disney.

MAGA versus Disney is the sort of...

It definitely was back then, particularly.

And

Disney's got that particular sort of hold on the American imagination and it's a little bit like Bond or whatever for us.

It feels like it's somehow intrinsically part of our national story.

Anyway, they didn't like that she was Latina Rachel Zegler, which is, I have to say, in the pictures from the film, which I haven't yet seen because it hasn't come out, she looks so like the sort of cartoon version of her.

She literally

looks exactly like Scott.

And she has an amazing voice.

She was terrific in Westside Story, you know, which I wasn't quite sure why that remake ever happened, but she was terrific in Western Story.

So again, Disney are, okay, we've got this IP.

It belongs entirely to us.

We have this story.

We know the American people love it already.

Suddenly, this actor falls into their lap.

She's in Westside Story.

She's incredible.

She looks like Snow White.

They're thinking, oh my God, this is amazing.

This is just getting better and better.

They booked Pace Second Paul, who did Dear Evan Hanson, Lala Land, booked them to sort of update some of the songs as well.

They're thinking, I mean, nothing, absolutely nothing can go wrong with this.

Right.

Well, Peter Dinklage goes on a podcast out of left field and says, not out of Left Field's opinion necessarily, but you're not necessarily expecting this.

He's on some podcast about something else.

And he said, you know, I keep reading that they're going to update this story, but the whole thing is still completely backward because you've just got these dwarves like living in a cave.

Then they can't work out whether they're going to cast people with dwarfism or whether they're...

And in the end, they're going to get around this whole thing by saying it's all, they're going to be CGR.

Yes, they're magical creatures.

They're magical creatures.

They're not dwarfs.

They're magical creatures.

They're magical creatures.

They're magical creatures who look like people.

From the right, they're getting why have you got Rachel Zegler?

She's Latino.

And from the other side of things, they've got Peter Dinkfish going, well, I don't think you are progressive because actually this is incredibly regressive.

But, you know, still, it's Snow White.

They're Disney.

Everything will work out.

She goes on a load of interviews and

she raches Zeclo, and she says, this story is extremely dated when it comes to the idea of women in roles of power.

This is, you know, it's about a guy who literally stalks her.

People are making all these jokes about ours being the PC, Snow White.

And it's like, yeah, it is because it needed that.

Wow.

Shut your star up, okay?

No.

But also, I mean, here's the thing.

Firstly, she's right, and that's the point of Disney.

That's the point of remaking these things, is they tell stories for their times.

And the fun of Disney...

I'm going to come back to that point in a minute because I know really.

When we finish the timeline.

Yeah.

The fun of Disney, though, is they update things.

And also, if you see her, like the thing where she talks about Prince Charming stalking Snow White,

which listen, it sounds bad written down, but she's laughing.

Someone's interviewing her.

She's asked a question about it.

She's having a laugh about it.

Media training needs to get all of that out of you.

Don't make any jokes.

Don't make any news.

But that's the thing.

She's making a joke, and you know,

we've learned a long time ago one must never ever make a joke about anything in this world.

So, a few cracks are starting to appear: Peter Dinklage, Rachel Ziggler, starting to say a few things on social media about the storyline, and still the rumbling, which is the most pathetic thing of all of this, is saying,

How can you have a Latina playing Snow White?

Yeah, so it's just this sort of background story.

She does also

then, after October the 7th, she makes various comments about

Free Palestine, things like this.

She makes political statements, effectively, on her Instagram or whatever it is.

The Wicked Queen is being played by Gal Gadot, who has famously served in the...

IDF and who quite recently has said, has been very vocal about people not condemning her mass.

There's that sense that there's a conflict with among the stars of the film.

Whether or not that exists, we don't know.

Well, that's the biggest issue of all.

There's all sorts of actors, you know, hashtag Free Palestine and all those sorts of things.

It was taken as every single thing that Rachel Zegler said was taken as a slight against Gal Godot, and every single thing Gal Gadot said was taken as a slight against Rachel Zegler.

And these are your two stars, the two stars of this movie, which three or four years ago was the biggest slam dunk in the history of Hollywood.

And now it's beginning to less and less so.

And then Donald Trump wins the presidency again.

Sorry if you're catching up on last year.

No, you know what?

I had it recorded.

I had a feeling he might.

I'll still record it.

I'll still watch it.

Anyway, I'll still watch it.

Yeah,

it's good when it happens.

The next season's going to be amazing.

Anyway, she then says, may Trump supporters never know peace along those lines.

As a result, this thing is now sort of freighted with all of this controversy.

And I don't want to say that Disney is sort of walking away from the movie, but I do have a very big sense, and so does everyone, that they are just trying to get through it.

So it's got this really scale-backed premiere.

Now, you know, when you see premieres and they've got, especially a big Disney premiere, the red carpet takes, you know, 90 minutes because there are journalists from every single country asking you know funny little questions on the red carpet, silly little whatever.

They can't risk this with this one.

So they've got to have a sort of closed premiere effectively with kind of Disney's tame journalists asking the questions.

They've only started pre-selling tickets which 11 days before release.

And that's so that people won't be able to say, well, hang on.

they're selling really badly.

Normally you do it a month more out for a big event.

Okay.

They're not showing it to journalists.

Cancelled the London premiere.

There's going to be a London premiere.

The European premiere was in Segovia in Spain and was and was to 100 people.

In a sort of closed castle.

100 influences.

One assumes friendly influences.

I mean, genuinely,

you can say what you like about exploiting IP, but for whole generations of people, it's fun to have a live-action Snow White.

It's a thing that people would have welcomed into the culture.

And just merely a few years later, this becomes...

one of Disney's great embarrassments.

And as you say, they are literally sort of trying to slide it off, slide it out of our culture and they're trying to sort of think

just to get past it you know the money has been spent as you say the budget's very big and marketing money is huge on top of that the marketing money is not a huge amount anymore because they're not spending a huge amount on marketing don't need to we're all hearing about it but a lot of it's already been bought in a lot of the ads and stuff so i mean they they're not getting away with a whole lot less what i would say is you know is it is it even a crisis because sometimes you just read about these things and it's just and part of it is this is just a good thing that you can keep writing stories about and there is definitely an element of that and it becomes a sort of slightly self-fulfilling thing and they have really really gone for her it would probably be helpful if this was released under the biden administration that's another thing that like lots of things that have sort of come to after five years of creative fruition have come to market now it's one of those things that you slightly feel like this is this is the first thing to go over the top since the trump administration came in this is

this is the first

meghan show on stream the first movie to go over the top

i think the meghan thing is I'm not sure anyone is too worried about that.

I'm not sure that would have succeeded under Biden or Trump.

Maybe under JFK.

I don't know.

It might have done.

So it's the first one that goes over the top.

And so every single,

you know, all the tanks are aimed at it culturally, that's for sure.

The New York Post, which is one of Murdoch's many mouthpieces, you know, keep repeating this thing of go woke, go broke.

And just to be clear, there's nothing woke about this film other than there's a Latina.

actress who looks exactly like Snow White.

So that's, I mean, that feels like pure racism.

And that's, you know, that's, that's, that's, that's all they've got.

It's not really won't.

It's a nothing.

It's a confected nothing, really, because it will still be the Snow White story.

I mean, honestly, you can't, they don't let you change anything.

Yeah, but as my grandfather used to say when he was in the police, if you're called to a fight in a pub, make sure you're second through the door.

And Snow White, unfortunately, is the first through the door.

I think that a few interesting things.

We'll get on to how one deals with talent.

in this age and how one deals with talent on social media.

One interesting thing I think is the culture wars, which have been fought long and hard and boy, we've all been in the trenches for a long time.

The culture wars are now about to take on a completely different hue, I think.

So this is the first time when there's been a huge backlash against a movie when the people on that side of the culture wars, on the Trump side of the culture wars, are in charge.

And so this thing that's been a fun hobby for the online right for many, many years and they have loved doing this trolling they've done, you know, has been a joy to them.

When you're in charge, it becomes something different and it becomes a form of bullying and it becomes something where you think,

I understand when you are fighting against something, you do whatever you can, but you're in charge now and therefore they are in danger of showing their true colours and they're in danger of showing to people actually what is being thrown out.

under this administration and the things we are going to lose under this administration.

I think interestingly it's a turning point where when when people who are pro-DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion, which a lot of the industry are, I think this is the point at which they can dig in and build their trench and fight back from there.

It feels like this is now just bullying.

It's gone from trolling

to actual bullying.

I've got a slightly different take on it.

I do think it's, first of all, it's talent mismanagement.

Having spoken of Megan, working for Disney is literally like marrying into the royal family, okay?

You have to behave in a certain way.

And everybody who does it knows it.

And someone should have said to her, don't do any of these things, okay?

Because you can't.

And you may rail against that.

You may think that's totally unfair, but that's the sort of payment for being in one of these types of movies.

That's the tax you pay.

That's what, yeah.

And if you, if you do do that, people will come down on you very hard.

So it's a mismanagement of her.

She's very young and there's no reason she's expected to know, but someone has failed to manage it.

Yes, if I was her, I'd be doing what she does because

it's two years after you first blew up after the political comments here.

You should have learnt your lesson by that point.

Just don't do it, okay?

Because it's just going to cause problems.

I really believe these films just cannot bear the weight of this absolute nonsense way that their stars talk about them.

I'm sorry, I find it absolutely ridiculous.

I remember, I actually have to go back and look this up because I just remember laughing about it at the time.

When they did the Beauty and the Beast remate with Emma Watson and Dan Stevens, his interviews were so absurd about it.

I remember at the time, he said...

that he'd been really captivated by some speech he did at the UN.

And then I'm going to give you a quote from Dan Stevens.

Bear in mind, this is publicizing Beauty and the Beast, okay?

You need to engage masculine energy and grapple with what that balance is, what that entails.

What are the elements of the patriarchy that need walking down?

And which are just elements of masculinity that need to be balanced with femininity.

All of these ideas are very much at play in Beauty and the Beast, and they're also very much at play in Emma Watson's mind.

Is this still the movie about the girl who has a sort of Stockton syndrome with a big furry thing?

Because this is so ridiculous.

This is so ridiculous, okay?

And Rachel Zegler herself was sort of, unfortunately, still leaning into that type of complexity.

She She was, I think, yeah, she talked about actually this.

This is a thing about women becoming the leaders that they were born to be.

She said, she's dreaming about being the leader.

You know, she could be, it's like, do me a favor, okay?

She talks to some animals.

There's a homicidal stepmother and a magic mirror.

It's so ridiculous when you hear adults, grown-ups, trying to sort of wrangle the politics, sexual politics of the Enchanted Wood.

This is a nonsense.

These films cannot support the...

It's the way that people sort of talked about Marvel movies.

And they just actually, let's just get over ourselves, okay?

It's snow white.

And have some entertainment.

Yes, please.

It is such an I really find it complete nonsense.

And I'll tell you what, sorry, can I just stick on this?

Because

it feels to me like you are becoming the leader you were born to be.

Sorry.

No, I know.

I'm going to shut up after this.

No, please don't.

I remember seeing a picture of Dan Stevens.

Yeah.

He's brilliant, by the way.

I always think.

Listen, I'm not condoning him.

There was an earnestness there that I almost can't forgive.

Neither of us can ever forgive earnestness.

No.

And so there was a picture of him in the course of promoting this movie.

And I thought, aha, guess where he was standing?

He was standing in Anaheim in one of the parks outside the new beauty and the beast ride and i thought yeah that's actually why you're there dan stevens not to sort of wrangle some sexual politics it's to get people on that coaster okay let's talk about the mouse let's talk about the parks because remember the parks make double all of Disney's entertainment business.

And remember, that's everything they've got streaming.

They've got Marvel.

They've got Pixar.

They've got Star Wars.

They've got all the heritage stuff like this.

And they've got, you know, Disney Plus.

The parks make double.

Selling hot dogs to people who are about to go on a roller coaster done by Josh DeMorrow one time we must do something on the Disney succession because it's sort of hotting up and it's slightly hilarious if you enjoy funny executive battles anyway I'm going to talk to you now about churros okay churros the churros the snack right okay and churros are the sort of have become the sort of sitting signal people bang on about churros at disney world at the parks around the world did you know doritos were invented at disney world were they yeah did you know that no i did not one of the steps at disney world he like took the off cuts of things and made doritos anyway listen i shot to see what those off cuts

sorry if you're listening big dorito don't see me i love them by the way i love them but yeah it's i anyway i'm just pulling out of this one right now let's get into churros okay people write about disney food all time they're all obsessed with it it's a big big part of being a parks visitor last October, they hiked the price of churros 20 cents.

That's a huge thing, okay?

And I'll tell you why, because they sell millions and millions and millions of churros a year, right?

Now, churros costs the mouse very little.

Churros, by the way, they're sort of like a doughy, almost like a dough.

They do not stick almost, you know, with the Mexican thing and it's deep-fried.

Delicious as well.

Okay, someone wants to work this out, okay?

Churros costs the mouse very little, okay?

The cost promise of Churros at that scale is nothing, right?

Shows and movies are really expensive, but they make about 35 million profit from Churros a year.

but on a 90% profit margin, okay?

Now, they finally last year in 2024 made a profit from streaming.

Do you know how much they made?

47 million, right?

They spent more than 23 billion.

That's a 0.2% profit margin, okay?

So, Churros means a lot more to the mouse than Beauty and the Beast or any of that stuff.

Okay, having said that, as you can see from Dan Stevens standing dutifully outside the ride, you need Beauty and the Beast to get people to buy the Churros.

And it's not just that, you know,

the Churros, they don't make a huge amount of money.

But the point is, these parks, these things, they need all this stuff.

But it's really interesting how much they spend on streaming when you think about the sports rights, the licensing, all the stuff to make Disney Plus.

And I don't know, 10% of Disney Plus, or maybe more, they say, is one show is Bluey, which we love, of course, which we all love.

In lots of ways, they're not like any other studio.

They've got all these parks.

It's a whole different thing.

But let's be honest, you need Snow White, you need all this stuff.

You get them in the parks, you see the princesses walking around.

It's ridiculous that this has become about...

the politics of anything.

You know, even when Enderma was on its highest of its highs and the money we were making was crazy, we would look at the money we were spending on cars, taxis for all sorts of people and go, why don't we just run a taxi company?

Because it's about twice as profitable as all the stuff that we're doing.

You know, we sold all these shows around the world and literally, you know, we might as well just have our own cab company.

Is it all just busy work?

I don't want to be early in the morning.

Is all of it just creating jobs and just giving humans something to do?

Of course, almost almost the entirety of the creative industry is.

There's about four hits that fund everything else.

As you say, Churos funds the rest.

But that's why someone like Dan Stevens has to say that, because otherwise, what's the alternative?

He goes, Look, they just given me $3 million

to be in this sort of thing.

I mean, it's Beauty and the Beast.

We all know what that is.

I've got something else I'm doing afterwards, like an indie film that's a bit more fun.

But I'm literally, I'm going out for dinner this evening.

So, where do I have to be?

Stand in front of the roller coaster, of course.

And what should I say?

Something, oh, God, I can't just say I'm doing it for the money.

I find it empowering.

I find it an interesting version of masculinity.

Of course, you're going to say that.

But

it does lead to the rabid fandom, which has seen Snow White hit the buffers, doesn't it?

Yes, listen, the whole industry is an illusion.

We shouldn't even do this podcast.

I was just about to say.

But it's all, yeah, it's all built on sugar and fat.

The whole thing, isn't it?

The rest is sugar and fat in various combinations.

That's a really, really good idea.

The rest is roasted father beans.

Well, I mean, that you're not, I don't know what the profit margin on that is, but it's too high.

So it's out this week.

I hope it does okay.

You know, the trouble is, I've saw that the reviews.

I haven't seen it because it hasn't come out, but the reviews have been really good.

She has got an amazing voice, and I'm sure she's charming.

I find it one of the most boring of the properties.

You can tell it's one of the early ones.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You probably need to update it a tiny bit.

You know?

Yeah, but it's still Snow White.

Yeah, who cares?

Yes.

I mean, you know.

Well, who cares?

Like, everyone cares, but who cares?

You do, I tell you what, you do sit on the sofa when you're watching any of these things for the 15th, 37th, 97th time with your toddler.

You do sit there watching Frozen and thinking, oh my God, it's so obvious.

Elsa's gay, she's coming out, that's what this whole thing is.

And you have all these thoughts in your head, but I don't think you perhaps share them with the wider Disney community because really you're just making a fun film about princesses.

Well, that's the point of it is when you can read those films in any way you wish.

And that's the beauty of them.

You can take it from a regressive stance.

You can take it from a progressive stance.

As soon as you're told what they are, it becomes boring.

It's like Eurovision a little bit.

When Eurovision, you always knew what Eurovision was and what it represented.

But every year now you were told what it is and what it represents.

And you think, oh, I thought it was more fun when, yeah, when I just, you know, we all just kind of knew.

Yeah.

And, you know, and it was fun for everybody.

So it's, yeah, it is that thing of constantly being told, well, I still love Eurovision, by the way.

By the way, Dan Stevens is amazing in the Eurovision movie.

That he's really, really good in.

You know, that where there was no nonsense.

That where he just turned up, did a brilliant job and everybody loved it.

But yeah, constantly being told why movies are important.

We're not going to be, I think we won't see marketing like that.

I think that's one of the casualties of sort of sea change in cultural

philosophy, which is that you won't see things marketed for, you know, here's why this is important and you sort of should see it.

Now, is the next thing that's going to happen, production companies getting much tougher on contracts for talent and getting much tougher on their social media output.

Do you essentially, do the studios have to start treating young talent in the same way that the BBC treats Gary Lineker?

Yes, they are.

And I'm actually surprised because her representation is no good because they should have told her this, and she should have actually learnt from the first time around and not done it again after Trump won.

So fine.

But yes, they are going to have to do that.

They're going to have to go through everybody's tweets.

So the same thing doesn't happen with Emilia Perez.

They're going to have to go through all of this stuff.

And if they don't, they do risk very, very expensive mistakes.

And that's just, unfortunately, the entertainment/slash political climate we live in.

But for them, the financial climate they've always lived in.

Churros.

Churros.

Or just make a load of churros.

Yeah.

Start a cab company.

Shall we go to some adverts talking of the unlikely ways in which things are funded?

And afterwards, I'm going to announce the title of the new Thursday Murder Club novel.

Yes, please hurry back, everyone.

This episode is brought to you by Sky, where you can watch unmissable shows such as the new season of Gangs of London, the BAFTA-winning Emmy-nominated series, starring Joe Cole, Michelle Fairley, and Shopei DeRisu.

Now, Richard, in season three, chaos erupts after a spiked drugs shipment floods the streets, killing hundreds of civilians.

But here is the twist.

I mean, it sounds like a big enough twist already, but you know I love a twist.

I know you love a twist.

The spike shipment, it wasn't an accident.

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Oh my God, knowing what I do about TV crime and writing, all that sort of stuff, I suspect this is just the beginning.

Correct, Amundo.

I love your catchphrase.

So bring me and maybe anyone listening up to Speed who hasn't seen the first two seasons of Gangs of London.

People absolutely love this show.

In the first two seasons, we saw the battle for power between Sean and Elliott.

Let's not forget he's an undercover cop.

It came to a climactic head with Sean's now in prison at the start of season three.

Now, the aftermath of all of that has sparked a brutal power struggle right across the capital's underworld.

We're talking tested loyalties, shifting alliances, unexpected betrayals.

Who can be trusted?

Elliot, who we've seen fight very hard to obtain power, struggles to hold on to it, while behind bars, Sean is still able to wield influence and affect events outside the prison walls, meaning the various gangs are looking over their shoulders, not knowing who to trust.

In my books, I have a drug dealer called Connie Johnson who's always in prison, but she's always got like an espresso machine, and her Wi-Fi is absolutely sensational.

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Welcome back, everybody.

Now, Richard, please don't keep me in suspense any longer.

I would love to know the title of the new book.

Yes.

Well, I finished writing it yesterday.

I wrote to the end yesterday.

Oh god, it's so satisfying.

I know it's so satisfying.

There'll be, um, at some point, we'll talk about what happens when you hand it in.

When you write the end and when you write the end, exactly, because it really, I know there's a, you know, there's a number of things that happen after that point.

Yeah, so the title, the title of the next Thursday Murder Club book is The Impossible Fortune.

Oh, I love it.

Because in there, there is an Impossible Fortune in there, but also it's about luck and chance and what life throws at you.

So The Impossible Fortune.

The inspiration, all the way through, I wanted to call it Fortune's Always Hiding, which is from I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles, the West Ham song.

You know, Fortune's Always Hiding, I've Looked Everywhere.

I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles, Pretty Bubbles in the Air.

And so I've...

Because Ron is a West Ham fan.

Because Ron in the book is a West Ham fan, absolutely.

And so I said to the publishers and agents and everyone, I said, Oh, this is the name I want.

And,

you know, because of the song.

And every single one of them said, what song?

So, what do you mean, what song?

It's I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles.

Fortune's Always Hiding.

And nobody knew those lyrics.

Nobody had ever heard of it.

There'd be such a big crossover between West Ham fans and people who work in public.

I mean, yeah, there's a Benn diagram, isn't there?

I think it might just be me.

Oh, I'm not not a West Ham van, but I know the lyrics to that song.

So, yeah, I always wanted to call it that, and no one understood it.

And then I was thinking, oh, an impossible heist.

And I put the two together, Impossible Fortune, which does everything it needs to do for me with a title.

You want it to sum up more than one thing in the book, essentially.

You want it to be sort of what the book is about.

You want it to work on a number of levels.

You want it to work on

a number of levels.

That's the thing.

And so, as soon as I said, How about Impossible Fortune?

You could see the relief.

They're going, oh,

he's not quoting this football song anymore.

They said they love the impossible fortune so out in september uh the impossible fortune the fifth book in the thursday murder club series hopefully i'm gonna see it before september well we shall see we shall see if uh if i mean i write it so so i know this feels like a long way away from september but this is about as close to the

no i will be seeing it before september sorry i it wasn't really an inquiry i mean i'm going to be seeing it before september i'm going to insist i get an early copy i mean if there are early copies that's what i'm saying is what if there aren't i tell you what i mean i can read it to you from memory yeah i'd like that yeah okay could you come around stand on my doorstep and just read it to you from memory yeah it's a great idea that would be a lovely idea um now talking of impossible fortunes and talking of books yes sarah wynne williams sarah wynne williams is the former director of global public policy at facebook which is now owned by the sort of parent company meta And she's written this book called Careless People, which is a memoir of her time, which she joined like many, very, very idealistic as a sort of progressive about where the company could go and what she was doing.

Yeah, she was working for the UN or something.

Well, she's a New Zealander.

Yeah.

And anyway, she joins thinking this company can achieve all sorts of things.

And anyway, there's a point where someone says, in a couple of years, you're going to be as hated as you are, as the banks are after the financial crisis.

Obviously, we all hate Facebook much more than the banks now.

The banks are lovely compared to Mark Zuckerberg's company.

It's interesting, okay.

This book has been published by Pan Macmillan here and Flatiron Books in the US.

Obviously, Facebook, I have to say at the start, Facebook deny it all.

We know they deny it all because they're now desperately trying to block it.

She's the highest-ranking Facebook whistleblower so far.

We've had a few.

We had Frances Hagen, we had Christopher Wiley, who talked about the Cambridge Article stuff, and Frances Haugen talked about the sort of damage done to teenagers.

And

Facebook were able to say of her, oh, she's never been in a single C-suite.

decision meeting.

Whereas Sarah Wynne Williams was in the room where it happened.

Yeah.

And they're very worried about their privacy.

Yeah, they want some fact-checking.

Oh, my God.

It's so beyond.

That's the amazing thing.

They've written a letter saying, we demand the right to fact-check this book, having just fired all of their own fact-checkers.

You think, oh, they could have done it for you.

Yeah.

So they had an emergency legal, it came out last week on Tuesday in the States and Thursday in the UK.

And they had an emergency legal hearing, which found that she can't promote it and cannot do anything that might further encourage.

So if we wanted to interview her, for example, even get a quote from her we would not be able to legally we would not be allowed we can't do any of it now what's interesting is that of course they were afraid that this would happen and it's really interesting because the UK publisher of this book told me about the existence of a book quite a long time ago and said in some months I will send you something that we'll have to sign an NDA about blah blah and so they have been so successful in keeping it under wraps yeah by the way it is really hard to do that because people just sort of find out.

And how they did it was everybody was sort of bound by all sorts of agreements.

And then they really carefully decided like who would be able to see it before.

There was a really good interview with her, with Emily Matlis on the news agents last week, but that was pre-recorded, you see.

But they managed to keep it secret until

can you put out a pre-recorded interview even after an injunction?

She's already done it at that point.

You've got to sue the news agents for doing it.

Under what grounds?

Well, the thing is that they could use our libel laws.

And when I first, I was wondering why they hadn't used our libel laws because ours are like the worst in the world and it has been published in London.

Or the best in the world,

depending if you've just been libel or not.

If you're an oligarch or not?

Yes.

It's great for oligarchs.

If you want to see, if you're an oligarch and want to see, come to London.

They all do.

But they haven't.

But she has got a lot of evidence as far as I understand it.

By the way,

I should say that I have not spoken to her.

You've read the book, though.

I've read the book and I've talked to various people about, well, I'm not going to state who they were, but I can say that I have not spoken to her in advance of this discussion.

But it's very interesting.

So Facebook are trying to ban it.

They have got a temporary stop

on it.

I don't know how long that's going to last in America because obviously First Amendment rights are very important.

And, you know, I know that because Mark Zuckerberg recently kept banging on about it.

So they do have a sort of whistleblower playbook, Facebook, which is that they discredit credit the person, say that they're nowhere near any decisions.

And with her, they said, oh, no, we fired her because she was toxic.

Anything?

Okay.

I don't think anything that she could possibly

be more toxic than Facebook.

It's not really possible.

Imagine making that office a worse place.

Yeah, it's not really, you know, I want to say very clearly for the record that they are literally some of the worst people in the world.

They are genuinely awful.

The top end of Facebook.

The top end of Facebook.

I mean, yeah, but you know, she keeps saying, oh, this is really dreadful.

Why are we doing this?

But she does work there for a quite long time.

Anyhow, first of all, okay, how she's done it is by saying this is a memoir.

This is my personal truth.

The framing of that is really crucial.

There is a sense where, you know, you're entitled to your own story.

They say that she's violated her severance.

She did a preemptively fired a whistleblower complaint with the SEC in America, the Securities and Exchange Commission in America.

So they've done this.

It's so strategic how they've done all of this.

And they also say that Meta went on record saying in during the sort of Me Too times that anyone who'd been sexually harassed, the terms of your employment contract about not talking about your bosses, you shouldn't have to do that in secret.

And generally, there is a view now that if that sort of voids certain things.

But when we had our discussion, we were talking about NDAs not that long ago on the podcast.

We did, during when we were talking about Neil Gaiman, it's quite interesting.

Once they've said it, it is out there.

And so in a way, the best way to do it is to speak up.

And now they can pursue her and they can do all kinds of things.

But it's starting to look really bad.

It is the Streisand effect that you talk about.

Yeah, the more they pursue her, the bigger the story gets, the more books she sells and the more people read the things that she has written.

It's interesting, this book, because it sort of tells you everything you already thought was true because you should know quite a lot about these people.

And I already think they're the worst people.

Well, she says various things.

She said, you know, there are no adults in the room.

Because there's a bit of you, because I'm always thinking the best of people.

That's my greatest flaw.

And my greatest strength.

But I always think, oh, yeah, but I'm sure somebody somewhere is, you know, is in control of this.

And I'm sure someone is at least thinking about it.

And it appears not.

It appears that the green-eyed monster of greed trumps absolutely everything.

And when they know things, they've got this way that they can see when teenage girls have deleted selfies and they sell that moment to advertisers so that advertisers can use that exact moment to sell them sort of tummy-flattening things and

beauty products.

So it's so gross what they're doing, to say nothing of how hand in glove they have worked with the Chinese regime, which is, I mean, I think that's in some ways the most, the biggest story.

They say, oh, we never actually went into China.

It's like, but they've done all sorts of other things.

Well, she says, doesn't she, in the book that, that Mark Zuckerberg offered President Xi the opportunity to name his unborn child?

Yeah, and I'm not saying President Xi's cool, but he just says no thanks.

I'm okay, thanks.

God, stop being so embarrassing.

Imagine being Mark Zuckerberg's wife and her just going, oh, what should we call our child?

And he goes, well, do you know what?

Not really up to us, is it?

Unfortunately,

I mean, it's...

They obviously think it's most damaging to them in the US in some ways, but it's damaging everywhere.

But as I say, in a way, this book tells you things that you either suspected or already knew.

But by going so hard against it, they have, I mean, I really think they've increased sales an awful lot.

I think it's going to do very, very well, this book.

Is it a good read, by the way?

I mean, it's a sort of everything that you thought.

It confirms everything

of what you, yeah, yeah.

And she does it in a sort of.

I don't want this to be a review of the book, but you know what I mean.

Yes, and she and she tells you the story of, you know, it's a story of crushed idealism.

In some ways, it takes quite a long time to be crushed.

It's probably the only.

Well, because there's a lot of money involved.

The three things that really interested me.

Firstly, she said there came a point where they just, it wasn't that they were in a bubble.

The bubble was a private jet.

They literally couldn't see outside of this extraordinary, rarefied world that they were living in.

And they very quickly got to the very top table in politics.

Zuckerberg needed persuading that actually they had helped Trump win the 2016 election.

He said, no, there's no way that we did.

And she's saying, well, look, your...

job is to change what toothpaste people buy.

You don't think you can do that for politics?

And they took him through everything they'd done.

And he became persuaded that, of course, Facebook had been useful to Trump and you know it gave him political ambitions so I thought that's interesting another thing that's interesting is that Sarah Wynne Williams says the thing that she watched time and time and time again towards the end there was the Michelin Webb sketch of the Nazis going hold on Are we the bad guys?

And it's funny because that's always the meme that's thrown at them.

And the fact that she was right in the heart of the beast and that was the thing she was looking at and going, yeah,

this is what's happening.

we don't realize what it is that we we were doing and she jumped ship and the biggest revelation in the thing is that Nick Clegg sir Nick Clegg made a hundred million dollars from Facebook it's interesting though how as a publishing story really just how you know your relationships are really good if you're a publisher with various buyers but to be able to say to people because this is in four supermarkets this is in Tesco, Asda, Morrisons and Waitshop.

And by the way, I know we've mentioned it before, but very, very, very few books get into the supermarkets.

If you get into the supermarkets, you're absolutely in the big league.

Supermarkets have so little space for books.

And so they're incredibly selective about what they take.

Fiction is not a lot of that.

Yeah, exactly.

So that's a huge deal.

That one's going to be a big book.

Yeah, we've got a big book.

We can't tell you what it is, but you would probably want to buy quite a lot of things.

So Tesco's hadn't even read it.

It was just the relationship they already had with the book.

The relationship they have with the publishers.

And actually, you know, to some extent, being so secretive, which they had to be, there was literally no way around because they would have injuncted the book.

As you can see, it's quite clear that they would have injuncted the book.

They've already tried to stop it.

In some ways, that cloak and dagger, that intense secrecy has probably helped them.

People are like, what the hell is this?

Yeah, it's interesting.

If you are, I mean, amongst my favorite people in the business, but also the clearest-eyed people in the business

are the supermarket book buyers.

You cannot get around them.

If something's not going to sell, they're not, you know, they'll take risks and believe in stuff.

But you can't just say, yeah, but think about it.

They've thought about everything.

they've thought about every angle.

But yeah, Pam Macmillan that I've worked with before, Pam Macmillan will say, You have to trust us on this, you know, and because that's an incredibly important relationship for Pam Macmillan.

You don't want to mess the supermarkets around.

So, yeah, those would have been interesting meetings where they said, It's completely secret, that's exciting for everybody.

You have to trust us.

Pam Macmillan must be so confident it's a good book to be able to say that to the supermarkets because they know it's their reputation on the line.

And if it's a bad book and doesn't sell, next time they go back to Tesco, Tesco kind of go, Remember the thing about Facebook?

Exactly.

So I would say it's really worth reading.

It's a sort of fascinating expose,

often of things that you already suspected were true, but we're horrified to learn are even truer than perhaps you thought.

And a really amazing cloak and dagger operation by Pam Macmillan and Flatiron to actually get it to market because it's so difficult.

It could so easily be an injuncted.

And it's absolutely a manifestation of that meme of Mark Zuckerberg doesn't want you to read this book.

Yeah.

And because he really doesn't want you to read this book.

So maybe it's fun to read it.

Yeah.

Shall we move on?

We've got sort of three leading stories this week because this is a cracker as well.

Millie Bobby Brown.

Yes, Millie Bobby Brown, who is 11 in Stranger Things, but she's also a big star on Netflix, which I think is different from being a big movie star.

But anyway, that's for another podcast.

She is currently on the sort of promotional tour for The Electric State, which is this very, very expensive movie that the Russo brothers have directed.

320 million.

Unbelievable.

I've seen it.

I'll give you my review later.

Oh, okay.

Right.

Well, that's, I haven't seen it.

She's been subject in recent months to sort of really a relentless number of news stories, social media, sort of gossip, people saying, you know, she looks old or she looks older than she is.

And some of it's a sort of thinly coded suggestion that she's using fillers or tweetments or whatever people want to call them.

What she did in retaliation to this eventually was that she's done a video saying,

I find this really disgusting, the way people talk about this.

It's amazing how many of these people who write these stories are women.

She named lots of the, and a lot of it's male online.

Yeah.

Just stating the facts here, a lot of it's male online.

Stated, uh,

named them.

Matt Lucas had posted a picture of Vicky Pollard and said, which I think she slightly misunderstood the joke.

He apologised immediately.

He apologised immediately.

He said, this is a sort of joke about her in a pink topper with a head, but never mind.

And it's interesting.

Obviously, in terms of people who've, who think they're her fans, but have talked in a, have kind of added to this, it is that whole, you know, no slow snowflake thinks it's part of the avalanche thing.

But she says, why should I be subject to this kind of relentless scrutiny?

And it's in the old days, you couldn't do this.

You didn't have the tools.

You'd have to wait till

you were next on a chat show to

pull everyone out of the moment and be really kind of censorious and say, I don't like this.

But now you can just go on and.

But before that, you'd have to wait for your autobiography 40 years later, wouldn't you?

Yes.

Now it's like 40 minutes.

One of the daily, the mail online journalists who she called that has now resigned from the mail online and said, I wasn't strong enough to say no.

She's posted an apology video herself saying, I wasn't brave enough to say no.

I've now had a favor of what it's like to be scrutinised.

You know, my family's had death threats

and blah.

Yeah.

Anyhow, there's lots of interesting things about this story.

First of all, that the reason that these stories are written is because there is a market for them.

The market for those type of stories, by the way, is chiefly women.

It's the female gaze and other women policing other women and how they look is a big market.

And pretending that this is all, you know, that that story even has been commissioned by a man is, I don't think, accurate.

But there is also a sense, you know, it's interesting hearing, we talked before about Chappelle Rowe and what she said about fandoms feeling they sort of own you, these parasocial relationships that have gone too far.

And there is something about being a star, a young star, a starlit, as we used to call them now, where it's almost like footballers, where people feel like, oh, sorry, we pay your wages.

You know, we're entitled to literally, like some people think and have thought for a long time that because they've got a season ticket at wherever, it's actually fine to stand and shout, I hope your kid gets cancer, to someone who's just missed a penalty.

Yeah.

Which is

such a way to view life.

Whenever you watch any of the traffic cop documentaries, the worst people in the world are always the people who get stopped for drink driving and saying, I pay your wages.

To the police.

Yes, to the police.

Okay.

So I think there's that element of it.

The type of articles that these were and are, and you see them, I think there's a real ecosystem of those articles.

And for me, I find it awful.

People saying she's had this or that done.

If you look at the journalist from the mail online, Nydia Hawkin, who ended up resigning, her sort of Twitter timeline was a series of things saying, I'm urgently looking to speak to a plastic surgeon for a feature.

I'm urgently looking to speak to an aesthetician.

I don't even know what that job is, but I can tell you it's probably not properly regulated.

I'll tell you what, they ain't making churros.

They ain't making churros.

And there are all these doctors and aestheticians, if I can possibly say that,

who contribute to these articles, even though they don't treat the celebrity in question, to say, oh, they've had this done or that done.

And those people do it purely to get their name out there so that they can get further business.

Referrals, yeah.

I've mentioned people who are my lawful prey before.

They're on the list, okay?

No, I don't.

Estheticians.

Yeah, just people who come true.

In our day, we used to have Esther Ransom.

Now we've got estheticians.

What are we raising?

What are we raising?

Anyway, so they purely put their name out to get business.

I do think there is something deeper though, which is that

she came to prominence in Stranger Things as a as 11 and she's, you know, she's a sort of, she's a real sort of totemic character and all the kind of boys are slightly devoted to her in her weird and outsider-ish way.

And actually, there is a cultural thing where not so much women, but actually men can't really deal with those type of people, those type of people becoming young women.

And I was thinking of the...

So, wherever she turns, female or male, yeah, because you know, there's a thing, isn't there?

Telling girls that they were so sweet when they were children and they didn't wear makeup, or sort of fetishizing innocence or saying, you know, I want you to stay my little girl forever.

And, you know, father's saying, well, I'm going to have a shotgun the first time she brings somebody home.

You know, why?

That sort of social thing, which lots of people

say.

Imagine, by the way, a father with a 13-year-old son saying, the first time you bring a girl home, I'm bringing out my shotgun.

Yeah, I'm going to just be cleaning it when she comes through the front door.

That would be weird.

It would be weird.

But actually, and that's sort of, you know,

a sort of ordinary real-world sort of thing,

those kind of comments.

But there is a thing of male creatives, I think, who can't really deal with people that either they've had a big hand in their career or else they're even their creations.

I am, I often think of Susan and C.S.

Lewis in the last battle, you know, from the Chronicles of Narnia.

Do you know, I am less familiar with the Chronicles of Narnia than I should be.

Okay, well,

you know, Susan's one of the four children.

No, I thought you were going to say Emma Watson, and I was going to be able to follow it.

And now I'm, like you said, Susan, and I'm all at sea.

Okay, well, she's one of the four children, but

in the last battle, she doesn't sort of get into Aslan Heaven, as it were.

And Peter, her brother, says, my sister Susan, answered Peter shortly and gravely, is no longer a friend of Narnia.

Now, a little girl called Marcia wrote in 1955 to C.S.

Lewis and was asking about this.

And he said, I'm afraid Susan doesn't get back into 90.

Haven't you noticed in the two that you have read that she's rather too fond of being grown up?

Prick.

Sorry.

C.S.

Lewis.

I'm so embarrassed for you.

I'm really embarrassed for you.

Oh, my God.

He's not the only one.

Okay, and by the way, that's not the first time that if he's looking down from the great wardrobe in the sky.

Oh, C.S.

Lewis is dead.

Yeah.

Sorry.

Corn, you really are catching, aren't we?

Wow.

Spoilers, much.

I tell you who else didn't like it.

Dickens.

John Hughes found Molly Ringwold.

Molly Ringwold, who was the sort of real muse.

He wrote about teenagers, really, and he wrote movies about teenagers.

He wrote all the great coming of age 80s movies.

Oh, director.

Can I just say he would be an amazing, he'd have to be two bonus episodes.

He's in, I think he's, do you know, he became a really hardcore Republican in the end?

John Hughes.

Yeah.

Did he?

It's such an itching story.

I really think we should do that for a bonus episode.

Sorry.

Anyway, going back to Molly Ringwald, she was in 16 Candles, Pretty in Pink, Breakfast Club.

And eventually, you know, she sort of wanted to spread her wings.

and she grew up you know and she wanted to do different types of movies and whatever and she has said that she always felt he felt it saw it as a real sort of betrayal that's what i'm saying there is a sort of thing about you know little shaven head at 11 who turned up in the first bit of stranger things in some ways people want to always keep millie bobby brown like that you're often in life um you remain the same age that you were when you became famous in people's consciousness you know you look at even kieran colkin and macaulay colkin there's something about them that's they are loved because they are tiny children still.

Daniel Radcliffe, he can go to New York and be in any play he wants.

And people are always saying, oh, that's nice, isn't it?

He's 14, look, and he's doing that.

That's nice.

I don't think we'd wish that sort of fame on any child.

This is why I think it's probably best not to put your children on the stage.

There is something very adult and exploitative about all of that and all sorts of different things.

Maybe allowing them to be part of it, maybe whatever, but to not allow them then to transition out of it and to express a sort of moral disappointment in them for simply aging and i really think that she hit on that millie bobby brown whether or she didn't use those specific words well she said she said that the reason you think i look old is because you know you first saw me when i was yeah you know a child i'm not a child anymore and that's very much on you not on me i'll dress how i want to dress i'll wear whatever makeup i want to make you know the fact that you are still seeing me through a different lens is literally nothing to do with me.

I'm always going to look older than I am in your head in the same way that you see Macaulay Colkin walking down the street.

You go, oh, he's aged.

Yeah.

He shouldn't have kids.

He's a child.

I agree.

And what's interesting is

a lot of people's reaction to this was, she shouldn't have done this.

You've just got to suck it up.

You know, we pay your wages.

You earn a lot of money.

I actually think it is going to be quite a lot harder for the next series of articles like this to be written.

They'll store it up and think, how dare you, how dare you mention our journalists, how do you, and they'll try and punish her in other ways, of course.

But I do actually think that it's a lot harder to do that once someone has said it out loud like stop doing this to me you know you're you're being ridiculous and i think it will be harder to write this kind of articles i actually think it will be effective in some ways and she's someone who is in lots of ways quite an old soul because she's got like lots of people who've achieved success of her generation she already has you know a beauty line a fashion line she's a sort of mini mogul maybe just a mogul and i think that people like that are quite interested in being powerful and thinking okay how do i can deal with this i'm not just going to accept this i'm going to have to and and and i i think it's exactly that thing of if you are writing about that stuff you're very justified to say but we pay her wages but she is also saying yes sorry but i'm also paying your wages yeah you know the fact that you've written 10 articles about me and people are clicking on it and that's how you're remunerated i am paying your wages as well so you mention me all you like i will mention you all i like as well and let's see how we like it you know because it's it's that's the ecosystem we're making money out of each other uh and so if i'm fair game you're fair game as well so let's bring it on.

I agree.

I it would be quite nice when those articles didn't make money from the female gays but the fact is it is a fact of the market that they do.

Richard, what's the electric state like?

Well 320 million dollars.

I've heard terrible things.

It costs.

It's got 14% on rotten tomatoes.

What's much as that?

At the moment.

It will shock you to learn, Marina.

I rather liked it.

It's just, you know what?

It's Minnie Bobby Brown.

It's Chris Pratt.

Woody Harrelson voices a robotic Mr.

Peanut.

I mean, it's sort of Spielbergian.

It's a bit too long, but it is because it's, you know, it's, you know, Chris Pratt's playing a sort of Harrison Ford type character.

Oh, my God.

Millie Bobby Brown.

Well, I just, but it's

listen, I was looking at my phone throughout.

I'll admit that.

But I second-screened it.

That's what they want.

They want to spend $300 million on things that people second screened.

I found that diverting enough.

The Russo brothers, you know,

they know their way around a joke.

And that to me, honestly, if you write something and the jokes are okay, then I will sit and watch it.

If it's got actual jokes written by actual funny people, I will watch it.

You know, and it does have that.

So I would say, listen, I wouldn't give it 14%

is what I would say.

I think it looks...

interesting.

Stanley Tucci is in it.

He's great.

You know, it's got good people in it.

You know, I rather enjoyed it.

She's great.

Minnie Bobby Brown.

Can I do some recommendations?

Of course you can.

Like everybody who has seen it, seemingly, adolescence on Netflix is absolutely incredible.

I haven't seen it yet.

I'm looking forward to it.

The second Ingrid is back, we're going to be watching that.

Well, I recommend that.

And I would also, I went to the Tim Burton exhibition at the Design Museum in London, which has been extended now.

I think it goes to the end of May.

It is absolutely brilliant.

It's got lots of so many of his drawings, his Maquette's models, everything from the Nightmare Before Christmas, you know, Corpse Bride, obviously, all Wednesday stuff, Betelgeuse,

Batman things, Edward's scissor hands.

It's really amazing.

I think he's such an interesting person, and to have that sort of weird outsider sensibility, but to have been able to sublimate it into so many mainstream hits.

And it doesn't become trite, that sensibility.

And I think it's because the craft and the vision is so deeply realized.

And when you're going around this and you're seeing the level of drawings from almost from his childhood, it's an extraordinary mind.

And he's so meticulous.

I really, I love this exhibition.

Um, and I love him.

And I think it's he it's he's such an interesting story.

So I love that.

So it's amazing how often if you make things with love, they do cross over into the mainstream.

If you make things that are a true reflection of your soul,

the market responds.

And just how long he's kind of put, there's so many abandoned projects there, by the way, that every single one of them you think, I just so want to know more about this world.

But he's, I mean, he's beyond prolific.

It's really good.

I don't have any recommendations because all I've done is watch Drive to Survive.

I'll recommend that for sure because I think it's brilliant.

Don't forget, you can join our members' club.

Our bonus episode this week is all about chat show disasters.

The worst guests ever.

I have the absolute inside scoop on the Begs and Clive Anderson.

I have absolute eyewitness evidence of every single thing

that have, and it is, it's quite something, I will say that.

But that'll be on Friday.

That's for members.

If you want to be a member, it's theresters entertainment.com.

But other than that, question and answers on Thursday.

See you all on Thursday.

See you on Thursday, everyone.

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