Lily Allen vs David Harbour

Speaker 1 This episode is brought to you by our good friends at Sky. From Small Talk to Sunday lunch, it seems that everyone has a take on the latest shows.

Speaker 2 With Sky's Essential TV package, you can too. Just £15 a month gets you Sky TV and Netflix together, the programmes everyone's dissecting, quoting, or bluffing their way through at dinner.

Speaker 1 On Sky, you've got the Iris Affair, Atomic, and the best from Sky Atlantic on Netflix, this House of Guinness, Stranger Things, and so much more.

Speaker 1 Series that start conversations more effectively than rail strikes or royal weddings.

Speaker 2 One package, one bill, zero faff. Plentiful, reliable, and considerably easier to live with than most housemates.

Speaker 1 £15 a month for Sky and Netflix, and you'll always be in the loop.

Speaker 2 So if you want all the best shows together in one place, visit sky.com.

Speaker 1 Visit sky.com to start. Requires relevant Sky TV and third-party subscriptions.
Sky Essential TV includes a selection of Sky channels, 18 Plus, UK, Channel Islands, and Isle of Man only.

Speaker 3 Think your lashes have hit their limit? Discover limitless length and full volume with Maybelline's Sky High Mascara.

Speaker 3 The Flex Tower brush bends to volumize and extend every single lash from root to tip. And the lightweight bamboo infused formula makes lashes feel weightless.

Speaker 3 Now in eight bold shades so you can take your lashes to new heights every day. Visit Maybelline.com to shop Sky High Mascara now.

Speaker 4 This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. Cool temps are here.
Time to level up your wardrobe at Nordstrom. You'll find the best cold weather must-haves, including thousands of styles under $100.

Speaker 4 Shop head-to-toe cozy from faves like UGG, All Saints, Nordstrom, Skims, The North Face, and more. Plus, free shipping, free returns, and quick order pickup make it easy.

Speaker 4 In-stores are online, it's time to go shopping at Nordstrom.

Speaker 2 Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment with me, Marina. Hi.

Speaker 1 And me, Richard Osman.

Speaker 2 Hi, Marina. Hello, Richard.
How are you doing? I'm all right.

Speaker 1 How's your week been?

Speaker 2 It's been wonderful. It's been good, fun, busy, a packed schedule.
Yes, a busy Halloween weekend, of course.

Speaker 1 Of course, it was Halloween weekend. I don't really go for Halloween.

Speaker 2 Okay, well, you will next year because I'm having a massive party. So I can assure you, you will be going for it next year.

Speaker 1 All right, Jonathan Ross.

Speaker 1 So many people on Facebook are going to Halloween parties as either Claudia or the Traitors. It's like a gift.

Speaker 1 All you need

Speaker 1 is a cloak or a fringe.

Speaker 2 So ridiculously, my school uniform contained a floor-length green cloak.

Speaker 1 Do you know what? You surprised me.

Speaker 2 I only remember it the other day. I don't know why, because it was like...

Speaker 1 Like a cloak in your surprise.

Speaker 2 If Claire had been chosen, that would not have been the first time she would have worn a floor-length green cloak. Let me tell you.

Speaker 1 What were they thinking? What were they preparing for?

Speaker 2 I believe it had a red lining.

Speaker 2 It's unclear what we were being prepared for.

Speaker 2 Anyhow,

Speaker 2 of Halloween, obviously a big weekend on Strictly, and we're going to be talking about Strictly a bit later.

Speaker 1 Talking about the succession. We're also talking about why everybody, everybody is wrong about Strictly.

Speaker 2 I don't think you'll find I'm wrong about it, but yes,

Speaker 1 well listen, I'll be the judge of that.

Speaker 2 But first of all, speaking of getting a lot of stuff off your chest, we are going to talk about Lily Allen, her new album, West End Girl, which is a sort of narrative album.

Speaker 2 I mean, I don't want to say possibly about, I mean, definitely about her breakup from her husband, David Harbour, who's famous in Stranger Things and various marble projects, but he's most famous.

Speaker 1 But he had not crossed my radar before

Speaker 2 this week. And it's extraordinary.
She had no sort of advance promotion for this, really. It's number one on the UK download chart.

Speaker 2 And I think there's, I looked this morning, there are three singles in the top 20. It's a huge buzz, really, because it is, I mean, I have to say, I really like it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 If you like Lily Ann, which I do, you will like this album.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's ethereal in lots of ways. And yet they're talking about something so raw and you know, very explicit in lots of ways.
I really like the storytelling in it, actually.

Speaker 2 And to me, it's interesting how it's been discussed. It has almost been experienced as this full kind of social media feeding frenzy in the way that things are in our age.
But

Speaker 2 more even than a sort of Taylor Swift thing, anything, but I suppose because in many ways, what she has, her biggest USP as an artist, Lily Allen, and always has been, is this kind of terrifying, incredible candor.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 A terrifying lack of filter, which is a very powerful weapon.

Speaker 2 Yes, and actually, it comes across because a lot of people, there are certain people you think, are you, you're exposing yourself slightly in Taylor Swiss various sort of confessionals, things like that, but they do nonetheless always feel incredibly controlled and marketable.

Speaker 2 Lily Allen has always had a thing where she has had, I suppose she was sort of forged in the fire of all the

Speaker 2 gossip in the noughties, particularly in the noughties, women were, it was best if you were a mess and you could be kind of...

Speaker 1 Here's the interesting thing about it. I was looking back to when she had her first number one singles, which is, you know, it's 20 years ago now.

Speaker 1 And in the charts at that time, in the same week that she was number one, in the charts, you had Razorlight, The Kooks, The Prodigy, Kings of Leon. This was who were in the charts.
This week,

Speaker 1 every single song that is above her, she's number 12, I think. Every single song that's above her is by a woman.

Speaker 2 Every single one. A female soloist.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Apart from Dave. We'll actually get to Dave in a bit.
That generation sort of grew up venerating Lily Allen. Funnily enough, Billie Eidish pays homage to her.

Speaker 1 Olivia Rodrigo brought her out at Glastonbury. Absolutely loves her.
Pink Pantheress. There's something about what she was doing when she was doing it that really spoke to the next generation along.

Speaker 1 And so she is now absolutely a role model to a new generation of female artists.

Speaker 1 And this generation of female artists are incredibly powerful, have sold an awful lot of records in a way it wasn't quite possible to do in Lily Allen's time.

Speaker 1 So as you say, if you present yourself as a mess in some way, which is how she was sort of seen in the press back then, that's now a career.

Speaker 1 That's now, you're allowed to talk about what it is to be a woman. You're allowed to talk about what it is to have ended a relationship in a very, very candid way.
She sort of brought that in enough.

Speaker 2 Even by those standards, though, I would say this is

Speaker 1 great.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's...

Speaker 1 It's great unless you're David Harver.

Speaker 2 It's almost weird when you see... I was reading an Alexis Petridis, who I absolutely love in The Guardian.
I love his music criticism.

Speaker 2 And I was reading a thing and thinking, gosh, it's almost odd to read this album addressed as music because for the past

Speaker 2 10 days or whatever, it's just been a

Speaker 2 huge kind of social media

Speaker 2 event that rewards those kind of things that we've talked about before in this age. It rewards a kind of extraordinary candor.

Speaker 2 It's set people on detective work to try and find previous Instagram posts that they can hook in since it tells such a specific story of the kind of decline of a relationship, that they can kind of tag things into that.

Speaker 1 There's less detective work needed on this one. No, I mean, it's she literally gives names and addresses and

Speaker 1 you know, reads out tweets verbatim. And you're like, oh, okay,

Speaker 1 even any detective in the world, they'll be going, I think we've got it, Massage.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, I was thinking about sort of all the great breakup albums, and you're thinking of, I don't know, like Joni Mitchell Blue or Blood on the Tracks or Jagger Little Pill or Adele 21 or whatever.

Speaker 2 And I mean, Joni Mitchell, when she wrote Blue, said

Speaker 2 she actually stopped giving interviews for quite a long time because she said people wanted to talk about the music and the gossip.

Speaker 2 And I thought the music was important and the gossip wasn't important at all. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And she didn't even write a song called Pussy Palace. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Lily Ellen's never going to is not going to stop giving interviews because she

Speaker 2 comes from a complete era, it's a completely different era now. I mean, she's obviously she was a digital native.
She started on MySpace. All of that.

Speaker 1 Can I just say, you know, sometimes

Speaker 1 when time seems like a weird concept, like, you know, like some people's children grow up much quicker than other people's children. There'll be some people and you'll see them when their kid is two.

Speaker 1 And then the next time you see them, their kid is 17. And there'll be other people and their kid was two.
And then at the same time, they're like four. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Lily Allen started on MySpace, but she's only 40. I know.
How is that possible? I feel like the mass of that doesn't work. It's like she fought in the First World War and she's still only 36.

Speaker 2 I know. I mean, it's but it's all of those things.
And yet, as she also says on the album, you know, she's a kind of 40-year-old divorced mother of teenagers.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think if you've ever been in a relationship with Taylor Swift, I don't know if any of our listeners have, you know, at some point you will break up and there will be an allusion to you on an album and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 If you break up with Lily Allen, you know it's not even going to be an allusion to you. You know it's going to be absolutely full-on.
And not for any reason other than that's what her artist is.

Speaker 1 That's what her USP.

Speaker 2 And that's what she does.

Speaker 2 There is something about the age where people want and demand that sort of rawness much more, which is why I think as Taylor Swift gets more, you know, has found her supposed, you know, I don't want to say supposed happy ending.

Speaker 2 I wish it is a happy ending. But

Speaker 2 she's lent into the idea of conflict with maybe artists, other artists, with whoever it is, because actually this is an age that wants there to be beef, pain, conflict.

Speaker 2 And of course, there always has in like breakup albums.

Speaker 1 But this is

Speaker 1 Lilyana would have made this album at any point in the cultural arc. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So she's not following a trend. She's not following the

Speaker 1 reason it's so big is because that's where we are culturally. That is not why she made it.
I don't think. I think she just thought, oh, I really want to talk about all of this.

Speaker 2 I wish there was some really amazing research in this because this is in my gut. That is in the ascendancy as a subject.
Broken love is in an ascendancy as a subject more than love itself.

Speaker 2 And there have obviously been times where just big love songs are the biggest kind of trend.

Speaker 2 I think in pop music, I think in terms of subjects subjects being in an ascendancy, pain and conflict, and it doesn't have to be conflict in a relationship, it could be conflict with, you know,

Speaker 2 your peer group, other artists. You look at what Taylor Swift does all the time, where she's found her handsome prints, but nonetheless, she's still able to mine a particular seam of kind of friction

Speaker 2 in other ways. And I do think that conflict, and probably,

Speaker 2 as you know, I believe that social media is driving so many of these things. Social media has driven that up

Speaker 2 the charts, as it were, in the Ascendancy as a subject for love songs. It's that kind of a song.

Speaker 1 Take us through some of the specifics that she says on this album.

Speaker 1 By the way, it's a very, very, very listenable album. And most people will never listen to lyrics in their life and they don't have to.
So absolutely, you can just listen to this album as it is.

Speaker 1 But there are lots of very specific lyrics in this. Can you give us some of the highlights?

Speaker 2 Okay, yes.

Speaker 2 So I mean, it starts with West End Girl, and it's quite Lily Anna's had a, you know, she had a what seemed like a happy ending before, where she yeah where she got married and she moved to the country and she had her children and then that relationship broke apart and she lost a house or she needed to pay a big tax bill anyway then she meets David Harborough and she moves to New York and it's all perfect and they buy a brownstone that's been featured in architectural digest and she is offered a part in a play in London.

Speaker 2 All of that is dealt with in about the first two verses of the first song.

Speaker 2 She's offered a part in a play, which was that 2.22 or whatever it is, a ghost story, almost like national service for young actors. I was thinking like everyone's had to be in it at some point.

Speaker 2 And she did one and she did the pillow man, I think, and she got an Olivier Award nomination. Anyway, but all of that has happened by sort of verse three

Speaker 2 in the first song. And after that, it is a dissent where she discovers his, he, I think he wants an open relationship, which he doesn't really want.

Speaker 1 Yeah, even in the first song, you hear her side of an imagined phone conversation, but one that happened where, yes, he's saying, I would like to have an open relationship, which I don't think he he had raised before

Speaker 1 she had gone to London.

Speaker 2 No, I mean, it's not a great moment. I mean, short of actually Shiv saying it on her wedding night

Speaker 2 in succession.

Speaker 2 I mean, he picked his moment, if that's how it happened.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's textbook love bomber, which is he's finally got her and he's like, no, I still want to keep hold of you because, you know, it feels like you're a trophy.

Speaker 1 But at the same time, I realize now I'm not supposed to have sex with other people. And I would, when I think about it, I would actually really like to.

Speaker 1 So can we just work out a way where I can do both of those those things? Yeah. Yeah.
Right, yeah.

Speaker 2 So we then move into the having your cake and eating it phase of the relationship from his side.

Speaker 2 And but the st it's a narrative, you know, it's a really easily told story and you can fully understand it as it goes through the songs and it finds she finds that he's forming attachments with other people.

Speaker 2 There's a Madeleine that we don't know who she is.

Speaker 2 Or though we do, because she's now been uncovered and has actually just admitted that it's her. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, she was really not someone involved in the world of celebrity because she's, I think she works in wardrobe or something, but she should have said, it's not me, but said, yeah, it is me. And I,

Speaker 2 okay, she obviously doesn't have any PR advice.

Speaker 2 There's a point where she's obviously chucking him out, and she goes to this apartment in the West Village and she finds, it's amazing you can make a song out of this.

Speaker 2 There's a Dwayne Reed bag tied full of butt plugs and lube and

Speaker 2 hundreds of Trojans, you're so fucking broken.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Dwayne Reed is their version of boots.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It's a boots bag.
Yeah. I mean, yeah.

Speaker 2 Celebrities are just like us in many ways.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 anyway, so she finds out all about the double life.

Speaker 1 And that's in Pussy Palace.

Speaker 2 Yes, that's in Pussy Palace, which in my view is the most unbelievably remorselessly catchy song.

Speaker 1 Yeah, great name also for a cat cafe. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, let's reclaim it, Richard. Let's reclaim it.

Speaker 1 Anyhow. I mean, David Harbor, that would be ahead of a move from him.
Say I'm setting up a series of cat cafes.

Speaker 2 Because of

Speaker 2 the way the entertainment calendar has fallen, Richard, he is required to be out there on the Stranger Things press tour. Is he? It's a final series of Stranger Things.

Speaker 2 It's beginning later this month. It is obviously an enormous show on Netflix.
I've seen people say, oh, he can't be involved in the press tour now.

Speaker 2 I mean, I wouldn't go that far because to some extent, one of my experience of press tours is there's always going to be, you know, it's sort of like, hi, David, I'm from the Madrid Gazette.

Speaker 2 When are you next coming to Madrid?

Speaker 2 But there is always one. So they'll be like, hi, David, I'm from the London scuffler.

Speaker 2 We've all heard the argument that the West Village apartment was a pussy palace. Would you like to make the case that it was, in fact, only ever a dodo?

Speaker 2 And they could, you know, he is going to, it's quite difficult. And you've got to imagine the rest of them all sitting in a long line at a press call along the stage.

Speaker 2 You've got Minnie Bobby Brown just wants to talk about her teen beauty line.

Speaker 2 The Duffer brothers just want you to think that they're going to make amazing movies for Paramount, like the Russia Brothers do on Netflix.

Speaker 2 And everyone's just wanting to, you know, leave this great show on a high and move on to their next project. It is tricky.

Speaker 1 If there's any invites to, like, you know, sometimes they do like press events and that were cast there afterwards.

Speaker 1 That's one, if that came into your inbox, said, Would you like to go to a cast and crew screening of Stranger Things? You go, yeah, and I might just stay for the QA.

Speaker 2 Yeah, normally, not in a million years, but yes, please, on this occasion. It's difficult to know what he can do here.

Speaker 1 One of his friends is quoted as saying that, so, because obviously he knew she was bringing out an album and this, that, the other.

Speaker 1 He said,

Speaker 1 David was certainly bracing for a catty album.

Speaker 1 But now he's furious at essentially being accused of being this skirt-chasing monster. I mean, you chase skirt, this is a monster with you,

Speaker 1 and the world's worst husband. And again, we're not, no one's saying he's the world's worst husband, but no one is saying he's the world's best husband either.
No, no,

Speaker 1 that's the issue there for David.

Speaker 2 This is very much a middling review on his husbandry, as it were. Exactly.

Speaker 1 This is a three at best.

Speaker 1 You behaved awfully. Yeah.

Speaker 2 According to this account of the relationship, as I say, and you know, it's really, I know that what

Speaker 2 a lot of our listeners have actually written in about this particular thing this week. Apparently, this is one of the biggest ever, ever MSS Entertainment inbox subjects.

Speaker 2 And people have said, you know, could you have had an NDA to stop this? And it's really interesting because

Speaker 2 I ended up thinking about this a lot because our producers told us that people were interested in this particular particular angle on it.

Speaker 2 You can have any legal document, and as long as the parties involved will sign it, 90% to 99% of the time, that agreement will hold until you get

Speaker 2 another legal document to free you from it. So who in entertainment does have these things? We know that someone like Tom Cruise really, I want to say religiously guards his private life.

Speaker 2 As a result, he's had two very high profile, he's been married three times, but he's had two very high profile divorces.

Speaker 2 One from Nicole Kidman, where you never hear a single word ever about him you never understand why her children shared children are estranged from her nothing is ever said then Katie Holmes where their shared child is estranged from him you never hear a single word at all there was extensive reports saying that she was not allowed to be shown in another relationship but she had a long relationship with Jamie Foxx that they were never pictured together at all and so there are people out there who can kind of bring in these.

Speaker 2 But I am thinking, okay, both of those women were actresses. Acting is a different art.
You may sublimate your pain and your experiences into other roles.

Speaker 2 But Nicole Kibman has never played Nicole Kibman and Katie Holmes has never played Katie Holmes. With

Speaker 2 a poet maybe or a singer-songwriter, it's almost restraint of trade to say

Speaker 2 you can't talk about your feelings.

Speaker 1 A comedian.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's very, very difficult.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I was thinking, thinking i mean i realize that like sylvia plath and ted he's weren't allowed live in the era of ndas but like can she not talk about what's what's happening to her can she not write write poems about her experience you know which there's a real bloodline between lots of those sort of things and an album like this um and i think it's really different in the case of singers and songwriters to say you know maybe don't talk about me in an interview but this is very interesting because it's such so explicitly about in all senses the word explicit about this person but but but it also has a universality to it.

Speaker 1 So, you know, which is why people

Speaker 2 are falling upon it, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because it chimes with lots of people. But

Speaker 2 you might say, don't slag me off in interviews, and maybe you could get that.

Speaker 2 But I think it's very difficult to say to a singer-songwriter or a poet or someone like that, workers talking about their own lives and emotions. You can't ever say anything.

Speaker 1 You mentioned

Speaker 1 their video on architectural digest, where they were taking architectural digest through their home. And architectural digest at the time, I said, oh, this is a nice bit of business for us.

Speaker 1 So an interesting house, two people who people have heard of. This will do some nice numbers.
So we'll just go around and firm it. It is now one of the most viewed things on YouTube.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's got absolute like tens of millions of views for this thing. And it's really worth watching.

Speaker 1 Literally, the first thing he does, like Architectural Digest comes to the door and he does like a bit, like a skit where he goes, Oh my god, what are you doing here? I told you I'm married now.

Speaker 1 You can't be here. And you're like, oh, God.
I mean, talk about hiding in plain sight uh and lianna in the background kind of going

Speaker 1 he he's not the greatest wit in the world there's a number of jokes he attempts in this architectural digest he's an actor who says other people's lines yeah exactly and has come to believe that he has a special source yes exactly it's a it's uh listen it's really worth watching if only for the house the world can i say what's also worth watching

Speaker 2 is regrettably he did an earlier video where he showed them round a an apartment i think not a fancy

Speaker 2 Or the dojo. Could have just been a dojo, Richard.

Speaker 1 In the lyrics. In the lyrics, he says,

Speaker 2 I didn't know it was a pussy palace. I thought it was a dojo.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's unbelievably catchy, but I just have to say that, yeah, that particular one is, and this is a complete sidebar, but we have discussed this before.

Speaker 2 Certainly we've discussed this, you know, when we're having a drink together. Celebrities,

Speaker 2 sometimes it's great to pay for all your own stuff because then the interior designers who do certain things for you don't say you can have these things for free if you do an architectural digest video i'm not saying that either of them did this and i'm not saying that david david harbor did this with the first apartment but you don't have to have cameras into your own house i was naively thinking why are they doing oh you know why they are because

Speaker 2 you get you get discounts on all these things or i will do an architectural digest feature for you and it happens all the time and it's happened forever since you know rich manhattan socialites wanted to get their houses because it was a mark that was a sort of real bonfire of the vanities badge of honor you know all the wives in bonfires of the vanities want to have their houses and their apartments um in architectural digest it's all griss to the promotional mill for this album which as you as you know as we say has been launched it's sort of just dropped without fanfare they haven't had some great big campaign that you know it's coming um and so and and also and it's organically growing because people are fascinated by it it's really good yeah well that's the thing it'd be very possible for lilianna to have released an album that was really good at in this year and for it to have slightly disappeared.

Speaker 1 You know, you can disappear from the middle of culture. And again, I don't think she's done it cynically.
I think she's made exactly the albums she always would have done.

Speaker 1 But it's one of the great things about it is because of the honesty of it. It has reminded people of what a great songwriter she is and what a great presence she is in the...

Speaker 1 in the middle of our culture. Can I say one other thing, though, which is, I know everyone says, oh, it's done this, it's done streaming, it's this, that, the other.
It only got to number four.

Speaker 1 Number four is perfectly good.

Speaker 1 But I'll tell you what it's behind is, and because, and I don't think we ever talk about, and this is completely on a completely different subject matter, but the best-selling British rapper of all time, Dave, has brought out a new album.

Speaker 1 It is beyond magnificent. I mean, it is incredible.
Listen, it's much less gossipy than

Speaker 1 the Lily Alan album.

Speaker 2 Which in rap is actually quite hard.

Speaker 1 Dave is now so famous, by the way.

Speaker 1 If you type the word Dave into Google, he is what comes up. Imagine that.
So the boy who played the harp, it's absolutely magnificent.

Speaker 1 and talk about a troubled childhood You know he was homeless his two older brothers went to prison and he writes these incredible songs He had the song last year with Central C Sprinter, which is the biggest streamed UK rap single of all time.

Speaker 1 He's the biggest UK rap star of all time.

Speaker 1 And I think that some of the broadsheets have been talking a lot about the Lily Allen album and talking less about the fact that we have one of the great artists of the century.

Speaker 2 For all the tableaus, anyone talks in the same way that they don't discuss gaming or narrative. things?

Speaker 2 Well, you know, or the same way that, as we say, we talk obsessively about what's going to happen to like Paramount for 8 billion and nothing about Roblox for 80 billion.

Speaker 2 And it's just one of those subjects that people don't have a proper handle on.

Speaker 2 And, oh dear, something bad has happened to a woman is a thing that they've got a real muscle memory for that one, Richard.

Speaker 1 Meanwhile, yeah, we have

Speaker 1 this incredible artist. I genuinely think he's brilliant.
And I think, you know, every album he's released is incredible. I adore the Lily Allen album as well.
Fantastic.

Speaker 2 All right, then. Shall we go to a break, Richard?

Speaker 1 Yeah, shall we?

Speaker 2 This episode is brought to you by Sky and Sky's new original film Nuremberg in cinemas Friday the 14th of November.

Speaker 1 Now, the trials in Nuremberg weren't just a courtroom drama, they're also the story of how Allied forces shaped the reality of international justice for generations to come.

Speaker 2 At the center of this story is a battle of the minds between Lieutenant Colonel Douglas Kelly, an American psychiatrist played by Rami Malek, and his most infamous and formidable patient, Hitler's second-in-command, Hermann Goering, portrayed by Russell Crowe.

Speaker 1 And Russell Crowe shows Goering as a calculator performer playing to the gallery at all opportunities, turning every encounter into a contest of psychology and ideology.

Speaker 2 Two Academy Award winners, one courtroom stage, directed by James Vanderbilt. Nuremberg's star-studded cast includes Leo Woodall, John Slattery, Richard E.
Grant, Michael Shannon, and Mark O'Brien.

Speaker 1 And 80 years on, the legacy of the Nuremberg trials remained Unshakable, the trial that defined modern justice in many, many ways.

Speaker 1 A story of taking phenomenal risks in the pursuit of truth and justice.

Speaker 2 Watch Sky Original Nuremberg only in cinemas Friday, the 14th of November.

Speaker 5 Sparkle throughout the night with Born in Roma fragrances by Valentino Beauty. Each bottle holds the energy of Rome after dark.

Speaker 5 Donna Born in Roma blends luxurious jasmine with rich, creamy vanilla, creating a sensual and vibrant signature scent.

Speaker 5 Uoma Born in Roma fuses aromatic sage and smoked vetiver, leaving a lasting impression that lingers well into the early hours. Shop Born in Roma by Valentino Beauty, now at Ulta.

Speaker 6 This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Carvana lets you buy your next car on your terms.
Explore a massive inventory online, filter for what matters, and find your perfect match.

Speaker 6 Then choose delivery to your home or pick it up at one of Carvana's iconic car vending machines. Every car also comes with a seven-day money-back guarantee so you can make sure it's the right fit.

Speaker 6 Buy your car on Carvana. Delivery or pickup fees may apply.
Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com.

Speaker 1 Carvana.

Speaker 1 Welcome back, everybody.

Speaker 1 Now, before we start talking about Strictly, let's talk about the other big BBC behemoth, because we're doing our live streaming of the final of Celebrity Traitors Traitors on Thursday night.

Speaker 2 All being well, that's what we're doing.

Speaker 1 And that will be a live stream. So we'll be emailing the details to all of our members, tweeting out to everyone else as well.
But you'll be able to join us live on YouTube on Thursday night.

Speaker 1 It will then be available as a podcast as well. But very exciting.
What's going on with Strictly? Is it all over? Why have Tess and Claudia let us, is there a bombshell to come?

Speaker 1 Is something terrible about to happen? Can it survive?

Speaker 2 Someone said to me the other night, shouldn't they just axe it? I just read somewhere that they should just axe it.

Speaker 2 It's like, oh, yeah, no, no, they should definitely axe the top rating show on British television apart from the Celebrity Traitors.

Speaker 2 But that was like, this is a very recent development. They should definitely axe it.
That's like, did you read that in like the Times or the Daily Mail or something like that?

Speaker 2 Because let me tell you, I'm so sorry to break it to you, but it's just possible that some of those newspapers have an agenda.

Speaker 2 No, they shouldn't axe the top rating, apart from Celebrity Traitors, show on British television.

Speaker 1 Let's not axe a show that is still getting over 7 million live viewers on a Saturday and Sunday night.

Speaker 2 To say nothing of hangover catch-up on Sunday morning. Nothing of it.

Speaker 1 Utterly loved by loads of people. It is watched by families.
I mean, it's, listen, it remains a magnificent piece of television. You get two types of people.

Speaker 1 You get the, as you say, the journalists who are owned by a media corporation who don't want the BBC to have a big hit.

Speaker 1 You also get those people who, because they've stopped watching it, go, everyone has stopped watching it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, do you mean, sorry, do you mean you stopped watching it? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 And actually, I have, I am still watching it now. I think about it.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 it is still a very, very, very big hit. It's still in absolutely fine form.

Speaker 1 This series, the quality of the dancing, has been amazing. The judges, I think, it's the best judging lineup they've ever had.
So it is absolutely going to stick around. It should stick around.

Speaker 1 It brings a lot of joy to a lot of people. If it doesn't bring a lot of joy to you, that is perfectly okay.

Speaker 2 Not all of television has to be for you.

Speaker 1 Exactly that. But it is, it brings a lot of joy.
We can all say, oh, it needs a revamp, it needs this, that, or the other.

Speaker 1 And the two people who realize that more than anything, well, I tell you, everyone who realises it, all the execs, everyone, that show's been on 23 years. It goes through little cycles.

Speaker 1 It goes through little revamps. Very hard to keep a show on air for that amount of time and to keep it fresh in any way whatsoever.
You know, that is difficult.

Speaker 1 And I think Claudia and Tess both absolutely understand that.

Speaker 2 It seems ridiculous now, but it was so radical, the idea that two women would present a show.

Speaker 2 And the fact that they've stuck that tight, they're like sister, you know, they call each other, like say that she's my sister.

Speaker 2 And you've never been able to say, they've never been able to be pitted against each other, despite the absolute Herculean efforts of a million people to pit those two women against each other.

Speaker 2 You can't. And I mean, it's a sort of amazing and lovely story in lots and lots of ways.
I think it's extraordinary.

Speaker 2 Something I don't like at all, which I have noticed because everyone can obviously see that Claudia is having this incredible success with both traitors and now celebrity traitors, which is just going to be a driver of viewers towards the normal civilian version

Speaker 2 when that returns in January.

Speaker 2 But people say about Tess Daly, she's no goes like, okay,

Speaker 2 okay, no. You hear so much stuff about like, oh, who's going to anchor the BBC's live election coverage or any of the networks' live election coverage?

Speaker 2 Everyone always talks about that as though, you know, the apogee of broadcasting is doing that. Okay.
Right. Let me tell you what Tess Daly has to do.

Speaker 2 She's marshalled the biggest and most complicated live show by a million miles on british television for how long okay she's got a marshal she's got to help someone and be really kind to someone who's having an absolute meltdown because they've just messed up their samba after a week of torturous practice she's got to get them across she's got to be really kind to them but almost make it seamless so that she gets the judges comments so she can get them off so that a swarm of technicians and people can come and change it from a alice in wonderland setting to the matrix in like 90 seconds we're now going live to jacob rhys mogg's count in north somerset like do me a favour it's like oh i have to stay up all night yeah

Speaker 2 once every five years, they stay up all night. Okay.
She try doing that, that marathon, every single Saturday for three months, okay?

Speaker 2 And every single thing that happens on your show has the potential to be a full-blown culture war fought across the BBC. Try doing that.
Don't tell me that Tessa, she's a broadcasting machine.

Speaker 2 Yes, she also happens to be smoking hot. Life is not fair.
But do not tell me that she's no good. I will not hear it.
She's brilliant.

Speaker 1 Absolutely brilliant. People don't understand what it is that she does.

Speaker 1 It's like that thing where, you know, you watch a football match and afterwards people who really know about football go, oh, God, the the best player on the picture is Adam Wharton.

Speaker 1 And you go, I didn't see him do anything. You think, well, yeah, you're not supposed to see him do anything.
Yeah, Tessa's got two people, a dancer and a celebrity, she's got four judges to deal with.

Speaker 1 She's got a very specific time frame to be able to send them off. She's got someone talking to her ear the entire time.

Speaker 2 It's got a lot of emotions to handle.

Speaker 1 It is not nursing. But if as a television presenter, it is a really difficult job.
And almost all television presenters cannot do that job.

Speaker 2 And she's got 16 or whatever of those to get through.

Speaker 1 And if you mess up a bit on every single one of them the entire schedule is thrown out by about an hour so like it's really hard listen we'll get on to who's going to present it in a bit but so many of the pairings you're going to go sorry there's neither of those people could do tess's job you you really understand

Speaker 1 that neither of those people could do tess's job that there's every single person who's ever sat in a live gallery is looking at those pairings going i'm sorry who's doing tess's job who's doing the job that's almost impossible yeah that has to be done absolutely perfectly every single time yeah but we will get on to the uh the pairings Why are they leaving?

Speaker 1 Because you have to leave after a certain time. You just do.

Speaker 1 Is strictly going to decline? No. Is it going to go up? Harder to say.
We'll get on to why it might do. So it's a good time for them to leave.
They are both in their 50s. They both have lives.

Speaker 1 They both have families.

Speaker 1 This takes a lot out of your year. And they've done it.
And I can tell you, if you do the same show again and again and again,

Speaker 1 however much you love it, you do get to the point where you think, maybe somebody else should take take this over. Maybe this would be more fun for somebody else to do.
The second you start to think,

Speaker 1 are there occasions where I'm phoning this in at any point, which perhaps they have felt occasionally, you have to go, do you know what? This is not fair. This show is, I love this show.

Speaker 1 Viewers love this show. It has to be presented by somebody who absolutely loves it.
So the moment you think, I cannot give this everything, are there

Speaker 1 scandals to come?

Speaker 1 There are no more scandals in Strictly than in, let's say there's 300 people involved in Strictly, or you could describe as being you know employed by strictly there are no more scandals in strictly than there are in any single organization that's really apart from the houses of parliament anyway apart from the houses of parliament which has 50 times more or a lot of the tabloid yeah newspapers i mean it is this is just full of sex cases full of sex cases

Speaker 1 i've worked there the tabloid newspapers full of sex cases yeah let's see if they report that i'm absolutely certain that the people have taken a cocaine test and claudia are also aware that the smallest you know indiscretion on this show it just there's there's there's sort of a tiresomeness to it So they've left, I think, because it's the right time to leave.

Speaker 1 Now, does that mean the end of Strictly?

Speaker 1 No, and I'll tell you absolutely why. There's an extraordinary story happening over the Atlantic, which is Dancing with the Stars in America.

Speaker 1 So Dancing with the Stars is made by the same people, made by BBC Studios. A lot of DNA is very, very similar.
A lot of people have been involved in both over the years.

Speaker 1 People have gone back and forth. So it's a lot of kind of shared experience.
Three years ago, that's

Speaker 1 very much the kind of bronze medalist of the big American reality shows, which are Dancing with the Stars, The Voice, and Survivor. Now, it's a very, very, very much number one.

Speaker 1 And not only is it number one, it is massively number one with under 35 viewers.

Speaker 1 In the last three years, they've decided to do something with Dancing with the Stars, which they will do on Strictly, I guarantee it.

Speaker 1 From last series, the number of under 35s watching has gone up 118%.

Speaker 1 Over the last two series,

Speaker 1 it's gone up 300%.

Speaker 1 So, young people watching terrestrial television, so watching watching it on on abc watching network television yeah watching it on on abc and they've done it by understanding that what they have in strictly could not be more social media friendly could not be more tick tock friendly it's dances it's famous people dancing and it looks amazing and it's incredibly clippable so a couple of years ago they said right we're going to make sure that we absolutely we absolutely hammer the socials we absolutely hammer tick tock they stream it on Disney Plus as well, which has not cannibalized it at all.

Speaker 1 It's done the exact opposite, which is dragged more people to the network version of it.

Speaker 1 They got more people, not necessarily, you know, YouTubers and social reality stars, but lots of people in it have a very, very big social media profile.

Speaker 1 So, for example, this year, Andy Richter, who was Conan's sidekick for years and years, so 59 years old. So he's perfect booking for that show, but he has an enormous TikTok presence as well.

Speaker 1 And that's a big deal. So they decided two or three years ago, this is what we're going to do.
We're going to try and grow this through socials.

Speaker 1 Socials will feed back into the show, which will feed back into socials. And it has really, really worked.

Speaker 1 As a format, Streetly Come Dancing, Dancing with the Stars as it is in America, is perfect for our times. Yeah, for all the...

Speaker 2 politicians having a go at the BBC. I mean, they've done a trade deal with America that's incredible.

Speaker 1 Why haven't you? Yeah, come on, guys.

Speaker 2 Come on, guys, get it together.

Speaker 1 So if you're the BBC, you are thinking, well,

Speaker 1 we have this thing on our hands and we have absolute proof of how this can go in the next few years.

Speaker 1 And actually, we have a lot of the same personnel who have done that, who can come and do it over here as well.

Speaker 1 So the job of Strickney now is to, how do we get it onto the socials more without alienating that big audience? Because you don't get seven million viewers by getting rid of your current audience.

Speaker 1 So they absolutely have to keep everyone who watches it already and just light tweaks that mean that absolutely you cannot avoid it on social.

Speaker 1 So all of these kids who in a million years would not watch anything on BBC One would go, so that show I keep watching clips of, are you telling me there's a, sorry, there's a two-hour live version of that every Saturday night.

Speaker 1 But if you come at it from that angle, I agree. It is.

Speaker 2 So I'm interested in your thoughts on...

Speaker 1 Who's going to host? Yeah. You have to think about how that show is hosted, right? Tess and Claudia spend almost no time.
With each other. No.

Speaker 1 There's like a two-hour show, maybe like three or four minutes of Claudia and Tess together. So people keep suggesting pairings.
You think it's...

Speaker 2 They don't need to get on. It's great that they spend all their time in each other's dressing rooms, but that's a separate thing.

Speaker 1 So you need someone who can do the test job who just

Speaker 1 like a Libero in football who just sits there and just stops every attack.

Speaker 1 And then you need someone like Claudia up in the...

Speaker 1 gods who is is that thing of she's pretending to keep things loose yeah while knowing she has 45 seconds and she has to come out directly on 45 seconds which is a very very difficult skill.

Speaker 1 So anytime someone mentions any sort of comedian who sort of is slightly off the wall, you think

Speaker 1 they could not do this job.

Speaker 1 They couldn't do it. It's strictly has so much stuff that has to happen in terms of the dances, in terms of the VTs, in terms of the scoring, in terms of the judges.

Speaker 1 It has to happen and it has to happen in very, very, very tight timeframes. And you cannot have somebody who is used to just freewheeling.

Speaker 1 It's fun on lots of shows, but on this show, it's impossible, which is why Tess and Claudia are so great, because Tess just takes care of this and Claudia sort of gives the impression that there is a lightness of touch while actually she's also like working like clockwork as well.

Speaker 1 So two, they both do a job that the other couldn't do and they both do it brilliantly. That said, there are an awful lot of presenters who would be very, very good at doing this.

Speaker 1 I'll go through some of the ones that I would suggest and then I'm going to throw.

Speaker 2 For each role.

Speaker 1 For each role.

Speaker 1 Because it has to be... Yes, I agree.
There has to be a pair.

Speaker 1 If we say, oh, actually, maybe a pair that already has a relationship, a lot of people have suggested Alan Carr and Alan.

Speaker 2 And Amanda, yeah.

Speaker 1 So Alan Carr's star is absolutely on the rise. Amanda Holden, 100%, could do that test job, which is very, very difficult, you know, but she could absolutely do it.
She really knows her business.

Speaker 1 She's a great presenter. She's on live radio for years and years and years.
So, you know, knows how to work to a countdown. Absolutely gets it.
Could Alan do the Claudia thing?

Speaker 1 Would he want to do the Claudia thing?

Speaker 2 I wonder whether he'd certainly, I'm not sure he would actually want to do that.

Speaker 2 I think he will have an unbelievable amount of different offers than he would have had before celebrity traders when the show finishes.

Speaker 2 But I'm not sure that actually she makes it look like, oh, it's the most fun job in the world. And it's like, I'm just saying random, funny things that, you know, and she's so witty and blah, blah.

Speaker 2 But actually, it's so hard. As we say, it's very, very difficult.

Speaker 1 Because the people are coming out, someone's saying in their ear, oh, don't forget Valvenda looks a little bit disappointed.

Speaker 1 Don't forget we got that story about Julian that he wants to talk about that. And don't forget we're cutting 10 seconds off this because you know, we're already over.

Speaker 1 So all of that is in her head and then she has to make it look simple. If you're Alan, well...

Speaker 2 I think it's too constricting for him and I don't think he'd like it.

Speaker 1 I don't think he would like it. I think you want pilot and go, oh, no, I need a bit more freedom.
You think

Speaker 1 you cannot have freedom here. You just can't do it.

Speaker 2 I don't think Rylan would mind it.

Speaker 1 I don't think Ryan would mind it. Yeah,

Speaker 1 I don't know. Rylan's an interesting one.
No one has ever presented strictly. who has been on strictly.
There's never been a presenter.

Speaker 1 So whenever people say someone hasn't been on strictly, it doesn't really matter because thus far they haven't been. But if you, it would be quite fun to have two hosts who had been on Strictly.

Speaker 1 And the two people who I think could do these two jobs, Angela Scanlon, who I absolutely adore and who could do that test job all day long. She absolutely could do it.

Speaker 1 She's so smart, been on the show, loves the show. Viewers absolutely love her.

Speaker 1 And up in the gods, Chris Ramsey, who's also been on the show, did very well on the show, is funny, but absolutely understands what he's being asked to do at any given time.

Speaker 1 And his humor is not Alan's humor of we open the world out and we expand everything to see what happens.

Speaker 1 He knows how to keep stuff tight, like Chris McCauson when he was on that show,

Speaker 1 understands how to keep things tight, seems to like human beings,

Speaker 1 has a big social media presence, which we'll get on to because I think that's going to be a huge deal. So Angela Scandin and Chris Ramsey would be great.
Alicia Dixon could do that role as well.

Speaker 1 The test role. I think, again, she's been on it.
So her and Chris perhaps could do that. The obvious person who could do both of those roles is Zoe Ball.

Speaker 2 Yep.

Speaker 1 And that's who they would offer it to. Whether Zoe Ball wants to do that.

Speaker 2 I don't think she would want to do it myself, but

Speaker 2 that's pure speculation.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it feels a lot, right? You know, Zoe Ball looks like she has found a nice place to be in her life and have found a pace that she enjoys. Whether this is something...
She maybe.

Speaker 2 It's a maybe, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. The key is going to be they need somebody there who is huge on socials.
They absolutely need that. Funny enough, Amanda Holden's huge on socials.
Angela Scandon, huge on socials.

Speaker 1 They need someone who is going to live this show all week round.

Speaker 1 You know, Celebrity Traitors has been as it's unbelievable the coverage they've had on socials because essentially they've had 20 celebrities. Yeah, they've got Claudia plus 19 others.

Speaker 1 And on this, you need somebody who's going to constantly keep that going. And I was just wondering, this could be 100% wrong.
Two weeks ago, bottom of the leaderboard was George Clark.

Speaker 1 And I thought, I wonder what the voting numbers are for George. That's my wonder.

Speaker 1 And if they are big, and if George Clark, who has a very big social media presence, is getting an awful lot of votes, then he might not be a terrible choice to be one of the presenters on that show.

Speaker 1 a Zoe and a George, an Angela and a George, an Alicia and a George. I just wonder if they will throw a curveball like that, which is somebody who was

Speaker 2 entirely buy that, but I know what you mean.

Speaker 2 Something I'm interested in, and forgive me if you're getting to this, because I do think that they need to keep that part of their audience that feels like the show is a national treasure.

Speaker 2 Somebody who

Speaker 2 has had this wonderful sort of, you know, mid-stage career glow up and has become an... just became an automatic national treasure is Hannah Waddingham.

Speaker 2 On Eurovision, what she did in Eurovision, could she do the test role?

Speaker 1 I think she could. I don't think she'd want to.
And I think she can get, you know.

Speaker 2 Do you not think she could?

Speaker 1 She can get seven figures for a movie now. It's hard for Hannah Waddington to become more of a national treasure.
I agree. I would say.

Speaker 1 It's very hard for an actor to do this job because it's three months out of your year. And, you know, you could say, oh, yeah, but it's only Saturdays.

Speaker 1 Because I thought about her, and I just think she can make so much money in the next couple of years. I don't mean that in a bad way at all, by the way.

Speaker 1 Sometimes the light is shining on you.

Speaker 1 I think that it would almost as you say you know before it will almost be like a restraint of trade that I know she has all of these opportunities she'd be an amazing look and they would definitely ask her I mean they will 100% be asking but I didn't put her in any of these lists because I think what about my drama yeah my you know what I'm not sure which of the roles she would do it's interesting when we talk about all these names and you know feel free to email in names about who you who you would like is there are people who could do it but the thing you have to remember is there are two very different jobs there yes what those jobs are there are certain people you cannot suggest there are certain comedians who you just think there's no point suggesting that person do you not think stacey solomon could do the the claudia because she couldn't do the the timing and the difficulty i don't know i haven't seen her do enough live things and i don't think she has done enough live things i think she would be pretty good it's you know what it's really hard i know it is i mean it's really really hard and i love stacey solomon but you know i don't want her taking time out of sort your life out no you know because uh you know that's a very important show for me but i think there are we are blessed, especially with some amazing female presenters at the moment.

Speaker 1 I think if I was at the BBC right now, I would be incredibly excited. I would think, thank you, Claudia and Tess, for shepherding this show so beautifully.
Thank you for leaving so classily.

Speaker 1 Thank you to everyone and Dancy with the Stars for showing us a direction of travel, which means, you know, we've worked out a way that this show is protected for the next 10 years.

Speaker 1 And thank you to the infrastructure of British TV that there are so many amazing names there who could really take this show into the next generation.

Speaker 1 I think it's a very, very exciting time. I think they'll definitely ask Hannah Waddingham.
I think they would definitely ask Zoe. I think they will definitely have a conversation with Rylan.

Speaker 1 But I do think, you know, in amongst the Alicia Dixons and Angela Scanlons and Chris Ramseys,

Speaker 1 there are some people out there who could absolutely make this their own.

Speaker 2 I think they could do a fun thing, having listened to you talk a lot,

Speaker 2 I think they could do a fun thing with an age difference, where there's a really big age difference. I mean,

Speaker 2 if you think about part of the reason things like Only Murders in the Building have become very, very successful is because you've got these two old guys that we all remember for, you know, Steve Martin and Martin Shaw, and obviously they're geniuses and brilliant.

Speaker 2 And then you put Selena Gomez with them and it's suddenly like, wow, okay, now you've got a show, and now you've got something that has a pull with younger audiences that didn't, that it wouldn't exist at all had they not done that.

Speaker 1 There are some times where people quit shows where you think, okay, this is a

Speaker 1 managing decline.

Speaker 1 This is really not that, which is why a lot of the press stuff has been so wrong about strictly. This is an amazing opportunity.

Speaker 1 And also, it means almost certainly we'll get to see Claudia doing a chat show as well. Yes.
Which would be very, very exciting. No one has confirmed it.
No. But I would be very, very surprised.

Speaker 2 She's always loved interviewing and she's fantastic at it and she's very funny, as we can all.

Speaker 1 And if you believe what you read,

Speaker 1 she would team up with Graeme Stewart at Sow Television, who make Graeme Norton and make it absolutely brilliantly. That would be an incredible combination, were that to happen.

Speaker 1 So, you know, we get Claudia doing two series of Traitors a Year, fun summer chat show. Yeah, I'd take that.
And then two Fresh Faces doing Strictly taking it into, you know, the next 10 years.

Speaker 1 I genuinely think

Speaker 1 it's an exciting time for Strictly. And Dancing with the Stars is the main reason why it's an exciting time.
It's hard to overestimate what an extraordinary thing they've done over.

Speaker 1 there they've absolutely turned around something that people thought was impossible to turn around not just their own show but also people watching network television, and absolutely no reason why we can't do the same over here.

Speaker 1 I'm going to take you through some of the numbers of people online. So TikTok, that's the main thing.
Roman Kemp, who I really, really love, he's got half a million TikTok followers. It's not bad.

Speaker 1 Amanda Holden, who I really think would be great on strictly 1.3 million.

Speaker 1 But listen, I'm going to go back to him. 2.4 million TikTok followers.
George Clark.

Speaker 1 If he can do it, if they can get him in in the studio and just go and just play, he seems very bright. He seems very, very smart.

Speaker 1 And if they can kind of absolutely pilot, pilot, pilot somebody like that coming off, especially if he wins this series, which I don't know if he will, but he's certainly going to stick around.

Speaker 1 That would be an amazing thing.

Speaker 2 Surely Lewis has to win it. It's just dance on Saturday.

Speaker 1 I think that's the best thing I've ever seen on Strictly. It's unbelievable.
I mean, I know he's a dancer, but even so. Come on.
Yeah, come on.

Speaker 2 Okay, recommendations.

Speaker 1 I'm reading a book that was sent to me by my old boss, Jimmy Melville, who runs the hat-trick and does it, you know, have I Got News for You and Outnumbered and Father Ted and all of those shows.

Speaker 1 So, one of the great kind of TV impresarios. But someone asked him to write just a short book about his love for Everton FC.

Speaker 1 And he's written this book. It's called There's Going to Be a Show.
Like anyone who loves football, it's a story about his life, really, and it's a story about his family.

Speaker 1 And it's really, really beautiful. If you're an Everton fan, you must buy it.
If you're a football fan of a certain age, I would really, really recommend it as well.

Speaker 2 It's just a really funny, smart writer talking about his family, talking about about football just talking about what what what what it means and so it's called the uh there's gonna be a show and you will laugh and cry i would like to recommend the wildlife photographer of the year exhibition at the natural history museum which i have recommended before because it is every single year i think it's better than the last year it is absolutely beautifully staged and done the calibre of the entries is just ridiculous and you know i mean there were two amazing photos right at the very start and you're like sorry is this the under tens category there's this kid he has two in the top top five wow it's um it's unbelievable but the the photographs are extraordinary and they say so much about you know us and our place in the world and what we're doing to the world anyway it is always amazingly done and i cannot recommend it enough if you are in london and you get a chance to go to it over the next few months that's wildlife photography of the year at the natural history museum and if you're not in london that amazing hamzo yassin uh series on on bbc one on on sunday nights is sorry can we talk about what a massive sorry we can't but we that is a massive hit he's come from suddenly, you've got this person getting a huge, enormous hit on Sunday evenings.

Speaker 1 It's great

Speaker 1 and beautiful.

Speaker 2 Yes. Okay, well, there's lots to say about wild love documentary, so we'll dedicate a whole lot of stuff to it at some point.
Other than that, we will be back with the QA on Thursday.

Speaker 2 We've obviously got, hopefully, a live stream, no, no, for definite, a live stream on Thursday after the Traitors final. And we've got a bonus episode

Speaker 2 for our members, which you can join at therestersentnotainment.com. It's a a series and it's charting the story of MTV which is

Speaker 2 unbelievable story. Yeah, it's really and is sort of coming to an end.
So anyway, other than that, we'll see you on Thursday.

Speaker 1 See you Thursday.

Speaker 2 This episode was brought to you by our good friends at Sky.

Speaker 1 The Sky Glass TV is a television that insists on dressing for the occasion, transforming your living room from background noise into a set-piece premiere worthy of Sky Atlantic.

Speaker 2 As the nights get longer, it's the perfect time to settle in for a movie night with quality entertainment on Sky.

Speaker 2 Just say the name of your favourite film into your Sky remote, like Wicked, and let the magic unfold right in your living room.

Speaker 1 And the built-in Dolby Atmos doesn't just play sound, it performs it. Think blockbuster sound without leaving the sofa.

Speaker 2 It's cinematic quality in your own home with the Sky Glass Auto Adjust feature.

Speaker 1 And not sure what to watch? Well, Sky's creative recommendation will find something something for everyone. Less scroll, more story, and the perfect way to make the most of those longer evenings.

Speaker 2 For more information, visit sky.com.

Speaker 1 Requires relevant Sky TV subscriptions, broadband recommended minimum speed, 30 megabits per second, 18 plus UK, Channel Islands, and Isle of Man only.

Speaker 7 This holiday, discover meaningful gifts for everyone on your list at Kay.

Speaker 8 Not sure where to start? Our jewelry experts are here to help you find or create the perfect gift, in-store or online. Book your appointment today and unwrap Love This Season, only at Kay.