‘Disclosure’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wosny Lambre

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Yeah.

And I don't know what the hell is going to happen, but it's next.

Nobody has to know.

Nobody gets hurt.

Critics call disclosure entertaining, provocative,

sizzling,

sexy.

This is a bomb we're sitting on that can blow everything sky high.

Thrilling, dazzling, powerful, riveting.

We're gonna bury them, all right?

Michael Douglas, Demi Moore.

You have no idea what you're up against.

We'll see.

Disclosure, rated R now playing.

All right, so

I don't know why three guys are doing this movie.

I just want to acknowledge it coming out of the gate.

It's a corporate intrigue, erotic thriller.

We don't have have to do that anymore.

We don't have to.

Oh, in Trump's America, we're fine.

The reason we're doing this is because this is now one of the funniest movies of the 90s.

I have no idea how to even explain how this movie happened.

I saw it in the theater.

I was excited to see it in the theater.

It did really well in the box office.

And then the years start passing and the internet forms into shape and habits change and people change.

And now this movie is like, how the fuck did this happen?

Waz, you suggested it.

So during the pandemic, 2020, early 2021, like i was watching damn near three movies a day yeah yeah and between whatever your different streamers have available sometimes you just end up on amazon or youtube and just rent movies and you know when you're renting a movie you get to watch the trailer first and i'm like all right to me more michael douglas yeah

okay you know basically uh

exactly yeah and i i'd never even heard of the movie before much less seen it so i popped it in and you know you think you're in some sort of erotic thriller, which there's definitely a lot of elements to that in the movie, but it turns into something completely different throughout the course of it.

And I just was fascinated by it as a document, honestly.

Did you, what's your history with this movie, Van?

How many years?

Uh, going all the way back to I had that scene on one of my mixtapes that I had back in the day.

Oh, no.

I had VCR mixtapes of different things, and I had that scene on one of the mixtapes.

Oh, no.

Well, so here we go.

Okay,

we're off.

What I remember about the movie was the bait and switch that people felt when they saw it.

Yep, because Michael Douglas, a couple of years before that, had done Basic Instagram, of course, and a couple years before that, Fatal Attraction.

So, this was the third in what people thought was going to be the erotic trilogy of Michael Douglas.

Those two movies have pretty outrageous sexuality throughout the whole thing.

This movie doesn't.

No.

For one scene, it's ratcheted up and then it's referenced for the rest of it.

And a lot of people were like, wait a minute, what's going on?

And she was smoking hot at the time.

So people wanted to see Demi in this way.

And they got one

blistering scene of it.

And then it went away.

And it was about corporate espionage.

And what the internet was not going to look like 30 years later.

Right.

Yeah, this was the trilogy of Michael Douglas, the everyman with his dick getting him in trouble but in the end he's gonna get out of it right and it turned out to be that crazy lady's fault this is what the late 80s 90s were like um

i wrote down it's a sexual harassment movie that's really about men's fear of the 1990s that women were starting to take their jobs which you feel all the way through it's about this weird the internet's coming what's this going to be i remember seeing this movie i i didn't have email for two years until after i saw this movie so he's getting emails popping up with from no server.

I'm like, well, that makes sense.

Digital messages.

They were FaceTiming.

Yeah.

They're FaceTiming.

It's like, well, that seems realistic.

And then finally with the VR stuff with the gloves, it's like, well, maybe that's where things are going.

Yeah.

And then you see it now and it's just hilarious.

That scene in the hotel room has to be one of the funniest scenes in the 90s.

Yeah, it's

they have to find a way to sort of tie a bow on the plot stuff because I think the movie just has so much to say about so many things, whether it be, you know, technology or whether we should embrace it or fear it, women in the boardroom, sexual harassment, sexuality, like masculine.

Like, this movie has so much to say about a lot of issues.

And, you know, and it's trying to do it in an hour and 58 minutes.

And in the meantime, they had to wrap up a plot.

And the freaking, you know, the VR goggles, the Oculus at the end was part of that wrap-up.

It wasn't great, but I enjoyed it.

Jane was getting, you were starting to think, what was that thing you got?

What?

The Apple guy?

Apple Vision Pro.

You got the Vision Pro?

Is that what the Apple Vision Pro is like?

Do you just go into a virtual office and grab files?

Well, no, but it kind of

you can do different stuff.

And then, you know, after a couple of minutes, your neck starts to hurt and you take it off.

And

your girl and your dog are looking at you like, what are you doing?

What's just happening?

What world were you just in?

But it's so funny about how much about the internet the movie gets wrong.

I remember there's one lady and she's standing up there.

Oh, no, it's Demi Moore.

She's giving her thing.

And she's like, it's going to be a place where there's going to be no race, no gender.

No, we're not even going to think about any of those things.

And then we get the internet and we obsess about

poor gasoline on it.

All it, right?

Like we were going to do all of this stuff, move files around.

Nah, we wanted to play Angry Birds on our phones.

That's what the internet was doing.

But when you talk to people who are like, you know, technologists or whatever, at the time, they were true believers.

They really thought the internet was going to bring us closer, not have us be alienated.

You know, like you could talk to somebody in Beijing from your couch in Boston.

And all of those things ended up being true.

It's just not how we spent our time on the internet.

Just not in the way that we thought that they were.

Exactly.

You were talking to the person in Beijing, but not to your mother.

Like you were talking to the person in Moscow, but you're never in the same room with anyone.

It just didn't go the way we thought it was going to go.

We thought it was going to add to, but it replaced.

Yep.

It shifted in real time because I was in college in the early 90s when some people were like in the computer room starting to email and we were all like, what the fuck are those people doing?

Like, wait, you can, and then eventually you could get information.

I remember when I was in grad school, like going to the library and you could use like Nexus, Lexis, stuff like that.

But when I saw this movie 94,

We didn't know what the internet was going to be because this, the net, was the other movie that came out with Sangeet Bullock.

That's another where they had this vision hollywood had this vision of what the internet was going to be and you would have these helpers so in the net it was mozart's ghost and you talked and in this movie it had that angel and it was like this thing was going to help you and find you and you could navigate the world with it and then by three years later we had a ol and it was just like yeah i'm just going to send some emails to my friends it's funny though but like apple's like apple intelligence thing that's the whole thing it's like you have an assistant with you that's just kind of following you around siri well i wrote that.

So the movie, the 2024 internet things, it kind of gets right.

Angel is basically Siri.

Email is basically email.

Yeah.

The video calls are now Zoom.

And the VR is like, actually, what the metaverse is, it's just the metaverse is way more interesting.

Yeah.

I think.

I think

it wasn't the technology that they got wrong.

It was the application.

It was how we would respond to it.

Yeah.

Right.

And the way that we responded to it was the way humans respond to things, which is the simplest, pettiest way.

Like, what could we use it for?

How could it make our lives easier?

How can it, but in very small ways, like literally the whole thing became, do you got games on your phone?

Like,

I mean, like, that's, and so this was, but I think I would watch futurists from the past.

And I watched this one guy from like 1959.

And he was in black and white.

He goes, one day there's going to be a device.

It's going to be in your pocket.

And you're going to be able to do all your banking, book all your travel, do all your stuff from that device.

It's like in 1959, he's saying this, and it seems like such a new world.

And you have that device now, and you're on Pornhub.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

It's just like you have that device.

You're in Pornhub watching this movie.

Exactly.

Here's the thing, though, that I think a lot of people.

you know, mention when they talk about basically how the internet has developed.

Like, I think when it was at its best is when there was less and less people on it, right where it's just like these few like niche groups you go on your forum you talk about your top five rappers on quest love's you know rap forum okay player.com yeah and keep it pushing right it wasn't this fraught thing but then like the more and more people the more ubiquitous the internet became the worse it got like that's just the reality of everything well this movie came out 30 years ago yeah it's amazing and in some ways it feels like a hundred years ago and then in other ways like i don't know this movie, this was a big deal when it came out.

It was a big deal that Demee Moore and Michael Douglas were in a movie together.

It was during that crazy Michael Douglas run where he, which we've talked about before, but Romance and the Stone one and two,

Wall Street, Fatal Attraction, Black Rain, War of the Roses, Basic Instinct, this movie, American President, Ghost in the Darkness, the game.

He's probably the most bankable.

picking scripts actor we had.

I don't think he was the best actor we had, but I think he had the best batting average of big market movies.

He was able to develop such unique chemistry with every single female on-screen league.

That was the superpower.

He was able to give you a completely different movie based upon the, he was a, in the American president, he's this charming, affable, vulnerable,

most powerful man in the world.

Yeah.

And in this, and in

Fatal Attraction, he is completely overwhelmed by the woman, as he kind of is in this one.

In basic instinct, he's shooter.

He's shooter.

He's like, like a weird.

You don't know if you should be

a form type of guy.

He's got the dark side in this movie because she alludes to it.

And then in one of the depositions, talks about like...

vibrators, all the stuff they did.

And she's like, I know, I know Tom.

I know he keeps secrets.

It's like a moment.

That's one of my favorite parts of the early part of the movie.

It's like the first scene is him with his family, and it's like he is Mr.

Dad.

Yeah, it's the most generic family scene you could have.

He even makes a joke about, like, oh, you didn't get the memo.

I was being dad of the year or whatever.

He makes a joke about it.

And as soon as he gets to the office, like, don't worry, folks.

I'm Michael Douglas.

I'm still horny.

Yeah.

So it's like, I'm dad of the year.

I'm Mr.

Wholesome, but.

I'm still, I still got to.

Well, they have to bring Dennis Miller into it to be like, this guy's got more ass in a rental car.

But I noticed it.

But it was even the slight pat on the butt of the secretary, which is like one of the craziest moments of the movie.

Oh my God.

Right.

You can't do that.

And this is kind of like the Mad Men thing.

When you would watch Mad Men back in the day,

there's guys would watch Mad Men and they were, there was two types of dudes that would watch.

One type of dude would watch Mad Men and he would be like, damn, I can't believe they were able to do that.

And the other guy would be like, bring that back.

Like, look how good we had it yeah so we could drink in the office and to agree we can do it and smoke and get and we had voluptuous women that we could say whatever we wanted to them was the days but you know when you're watching the film that that's going to come back to bite them in the ass at some point and it literally does in class one of the reasons this movie is so funny is They circle it around at the end where at the end, the assistant slaps him.

And it's like, oh, who thought that was a good idea?

There's a lot of moments where just like, wow,

who thought that was a a good idea but that was the mid 90s to me more

so the 90s resurgence she has which starts with ghost she's in a few good men decent proposal and then this movie you call it a resurgence yeah because she after saint almost fired it's a surgeons no it's san she was big in the mid 80s and then she had some issues but you look at her late 80s imag it's pretty rough yeah ghost is the comeback and then she she by the time this movie comes out, she's probably the most bankable actress we had.

What's weird is it's the peak because after this, she has Scarlet Letter now and then stripteas and the jur and it's over.

So this was the peak.

Um,

she's never looked better in a movie.

She looks unbelievable in this movie.

And she's really believable, I think, as the, as the,

you know, calculating office temptress.

It's just, it's crazy.

Because like when you look at her in the film, it's like, all right, this is like a professional woman.

And she has like a kind of inviting sort of nature to her.

But then once this woman starts talking, you realize you're dealing with a stone killer.

Yeah.

And that just doesn't let up the entire movie.

And it's not a way that I'm used to thinking about Demi Moore.

Not deploying her like ferocity in that way, but she was just like, yeah, I got these people in my sights and I'm going to kill them.

And she goes about the whole movie, almost pulls it off.

But that's what I was struck by.

I was like, oh, you know, this is a nice lady, you know, nice lady in a, you know, Kamala Harris sort of outfit, right?

And like, no, she's a, she's an assassin.

Well, that's what he had with basic instinct.

Big reference there.

So

it, they,

he,

uh,

to me, first, okay, so you say she never looked better in the movie.

It's facts because I watched this on

Prime Video and then afterwards it suggested Shriptees.

And just for research purposes, I had to revisit it.

Of course.

So I'll revisit it.

Shri Calico is fine.

Come on, man.

Let the boys play.

Let the boys play.

And this is her at her, you know, strip teas.

She got in super great shape and it was a big deal, $12 million.

She's going to be new.

This is her at her absolute, the absolute peak of, oh my God, what a ridiculously beautiful creature.

The problem that Demi Moore had is that the roles that she picked after this, she started trying to prove different things.

Seriously, she started trying to prove different stuff.

And then when the, what was it, the, you said, is it the Scarlet Lilbert or the Crucible or something like that?

Yeah.

She was going for the Oscar.

They were doing all of that stuff.

She never quite got there.

Oddly, she might get there now, having sort of a Demi Moore resurgence, as we talk about it now, with the substance and some other things.

She's kind of back a little bit.

And that's back a little bit.

That's why when she has two lines in the first four episodes of Landman, but it's second in the opening credits.

That's why when Bill asked, like, like, she was on top of my mind because of you know, the movie that's doing pretty well commercially, Landman.

And then I had just watched her hot ones interview where she just eats these wings and she's like making fun of the dude the entire time.

And I'm just like, wow, like, this is a really charismatic actress who, you know, she's like 62 or something now, who, like, you know, when they get to be that age, Hollywood kind of just, all right, Granny, we're taking you to the side door type of thing.

But like, she's back in a major way.

And And I'm like, we need more of this.

Yeah, she,

so St.

Elmos, I had this as my hottest take.

I'll just do it now.

I think my favorite parts of hers were the St.

Elmos fire part and this part because I think they both leaned into this side that was really unique to her, right?

She's

there was a sexuality at her that not a lot.

Kathleen Turner had it, Sharon Stone had it, but there weren't a lot of people.

that had it.

And it was almost like she didn't want to unleash it in too many movies.

Then when like striptease is like a terrible movie.

So that's so strip technology.

That's the thing.

Strip tease was like a weird nudity comedy.

I don't even know what it is.

It was kind of the worst version of

utilizing someone's sexuality in the movie.

The movie was a comedy.

There was no actual heat to the movie.

The nudity itself seemed like a stunt.

Yeah, like

shoehorning it is.

Yeah, come and see your nude and there's not much movie left.

Underrated film of hers that I really enjoyed, you left out a few good men that was in.

Did you say a few good men?

I i said it earlier yeah but um but like people gi jane was a very yeah uh

polarizing movie at that time but that also was a fantastic use of her physicality yeah and her charisma because in that role she was she carried the entire movie yeah there's eager wardenson yeah she's great and about last night um

There's movies that I think if like if you're going sliding doors movies she could have been in that she would have been awesome in I think she would have been awesome in both Terminators like if she'd been in Terminator one she'd have been the perfect age Terminator two I think she would have gotten jacked like Linda Hamilton did um there's Kathleen Turner parts I think she would have been really good in I think she would have been good in romancing the stone um i think she would have been good in war of the roses so yeah you look at her imdb and it's in a weird way like

A few good men, I think, is probably her worst performance in a great movie because that Joe Galloway part is just a mess.

Yeah, it's tough.

And it's crazy because her public life, her, like, she's such a big tabloid figure in terms of like who she's dating.

And then there's Ashton Kutcher.

She's dating a younger guy.

And that's like so much of the noise and the tabloid fodder around her is about her.

Yeah, that was

2000 and that kind of thing.

That was later on.

Yeah, that was relevant.

Well, I mean, when she started Dave Bruce Willis, that was about as 8-listy as it got for a celebrity couple until we had Brad and Angelina.

I really liked her.

I think her and Douglas together, it made sense in the Douglas arc.

Douglas was with, you know, Kathleen Turner, strong, confident, beautiful, great actress.

Glenn Close, crazy, confident actor who actually turns out to be crazy in the movie.

Sharon Stone, all-time irrational confidence performance.

But he was always at his best kind of playing off really strong actors like that.

But what was this movie actually about?

I think is the real question.

Because it's not a sexual harassment movie.

It's actually this corporate intrigue thing.

Yeah.

And I think I had to see it like five times to understand what the plot actually was.

And I'm still not positive I understand it.

I think Barry Levinson, the director, producer, extraordinaire, who's like, I didn't realize he's like produced.

Like, he hasn't directed anything that's been like of any relevance, of like major relevance pretty much since this.

But like, he's produced a lot of like TV and like tv movies that i've enjoyed um and he does it feels like he has opinions about corporate culture these sort of titans of industry and what they're about and what's funny is like when i hear van talk about like the platitudes that Demise Moore is using at this like sort of shareholders meeting yeah where she's talking about this product and it's like it's gonna bring humanity together and all of these platitudes and i think what the message of the movie is like it's all crap um these people are just like the robert Barons before them.

They just want to make money.

There's nothing different about this industry.

But like, when you hear some of the soaring rhetoric of especially early Zuckerberg and Jobs and Jeff Bezos and these guys, like they want the public to think that there's like this higher calling to this enterprise that they're pursuing.

But realistically, like, what does Instagram do?

They, you know, they've optimized selling us pants with seven zippers, right?

Amazon makes it so that you don't have to leave your house to get toilet paper.

Like, like, what did they actually do to change the world?

Apple's a hardware company.

You know, like,

this isn't like indoor plumbing or electricity.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, like, the idea that these guys have done something to change humanity is, I think, is BS.

And I think Levinson, quite presciently, is like calling BS on this whole culture, like, which I think is very interesting.

But again, the movie just has too much to say about too many things.

Yeah.

I disagree, but that's a different podcast so what wait you disagree with the point yeah i do what do you disagree with well i think that guys like jobs like i think that there's there's a there's a spectrum here right definitely yeah and and so like you know

steve jobs and and wozniak invented the personal computer basically like they had a different view of the world they took like computing out of that changed the world right so like they they took computing out of some place where the military was doing it and put a computer like in your home.

That fundamentally changed the world.

And I think if anything with Steve Jobs, he was chasing that high.

And I think

I'm not going to be like, I'm not like a tech broke, but I think he kind of did it again

in many different ways.

Black phone is definitely revolutionary.

But what I would say,

the thing about this movie is...

I think he's right, but I think the movie doesn't have the balls to be about what it wants to be about.

I think the movie shoehorns the corporate, but obviously it's based on a book.

Well, it's based on a book, yeah.

Michael Crichton book.

Who's got a difficult relationship with women, to say the least?

I think that this story wants to be about, it wants to be a very direct indictment

of

workplace culture and

harassment and no means no.

It's having a conversation really that we're kind of still having.

We act like we're the first generation to have the conversation about consent.

We're the first generation to have the conversation about sexual harassment.

We're the first generation.

No, it's been being had for a very, very long time.

This movie kind of wants to be about that, but in order to get people to have that conversation in 1990.

You got to throw a sex in there.

You got to throw a sex scene in there and you got to give them some half-baked internet mumbo jumbo corporate espionage to wrap it all up in.

Because what they're really talking about is whether or not the current workplace structures that they have can last women entering into them.

Because at the end of the movie, the lady gets the job.

At the end of the movie, he gets patted on his butt.

And his saving grace is that he's happy that a woman gets the job.

Well, the guy who creates the angel character, like one of his computer programmers, there's that scene in the middle of the movie when he's like,

Douglas says, she she got to you, didn't he?

And he's like, what do you expect?

They're smarter than us.

Like, of course they're going to rule the earth.

And the movie's really trying to dive into some of that stuff, but pretty casually, I agree with most of what Woz said because this ties into an idealism that existed

in that 92 to 95 range where it's like, Quinton takes over.

We're going to have our young, our version of JFK, right?

All this good stuff is happening with technology.

This is all all the smart people, all the best, all the best best and brightest are now going to drift here.

And we're going to do it in Seattle and Silicon Valley, all these different places.

And people are just really optimistic about stuff.

And you kind of feel it in this movie.

What you said is right, because this is all to be a movie about Donald Sutherland doesn't want to lose money because he's merging.

And he doesn't want to lose $100 million.

He wants to make as much money as possible.

There's some Kakamimi scheme to

frame Michael Douglas' character because he fucked up the product line.

But Donald.

And that's it.

The only thing I would say about that is: once again, I don't want to get bogged down, but the only thing I would say is that Donald Sutherland

is the

devil of the movie.

The virtue of the movie lies in the engineers and the people who are trying to create something.

So that

would actually change stuff.

You can't put those chips in the CD-ROMs by hand.

So, and again,

and we're going to get into, again, for me,

what ages the best and these different things.

And, you know, a lot of it is my own biases, right?

I think like the engineers and the technologists that Van is talking about, like the people who are actually like, you know, the truest believers and who we would say the most meritocratic, like they deserve to be in these positions.

In this world, they're not the ones who win.

They're the ones who get trampled over.

It's these corporate operators who end up winning.

It's not

the technically sound who you would assume in this technical industry.

The creators.

Yeah, the creators would be the ones, you know, reaping all the benefits.

Like, no, it's the same corporate sharks who reap all of the benefits.

And the way that you get ahead in this world is to maneuver, is to be a mover, be an operator, and not be.

You love this.

I'm wondering, is this making you uncomfortable yet, Bill?

Not at all.

What is Bill a corporate maneuver?

And And Shark, is that what's happening?

He's moving the chess pieces.

I'm just looking right now to see what the sweat is.

I'm going to do a ditchikov.

I love this idea that Bill is the Donald Sutherland in the ringer.

He's just moving the chess pieces.

Planning a merger.

Here's the plot really quickly.

The CEO, Sutherland, he wants to retire after the merger.

Tom Sanders, the Douglas character, he thinks he's going to get promoted to run City Rhomes.

Demi Moore's character, Meredith, comes in.

No, she's running it.

We have the sex scene.

Harassment stuff flies back and forth.

First day.

First day.

Harassment stuff flies back and forth.

He figures out

how to get his job back.

And then he's being set up to be fired for cause.

Somehow gets all these incriminating things and then challenges her.

And what really happened, which which I think I figured out the fifth time I watched this movie, is she had fucked up originally with the product line, and she's trying to frame him because he was the only one who would be able to eventually figure out that she had fucked up, right?

Which, of course, raises the question: why even do the sexual harassment stuff?

Why not just say from the get-go, you fucked up the product line?

This is more than a nitpick.

It's just like, how about just from the get-go, just blame him for the fact that the product line was fucked, and you don't have to like why I'm the one.

I mean, I have to be honest with you, I didn't make it till the end of the movie till at least like 1998.

But

I'll just be real with you.

I'm serious.

No, like, no idea.

It was like, okay.

But

the overblown way in which they go about like just trying to make him look incompetent is so the most convoluted, crazy.

And then he becomes Ethan Hunt.

Yeah.

Like he, he's like, he legitimately goes into it, espionage, breaks into somebody's hotel room the whole nine.

The movie just becomes a whole different film.

Courtroom drama film.

Yes.

Courtroom drama shooting in here.

And it's got that great lawyer character that was a very like 1990s, that female attorney who's going to use hard copy.

Like that was basically Leslie Abramson.

Some really funny technology stuff in this movie too that I want to get to, but we got to take a quick break.

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So the technology stuff, which is one of the reasons this became a rewatchable movie, it starts in the beginning when the little kid is like, Dad, you have an email.

Dad,

there's an email.

That happens.

The video link ups are like the whole concept of CD-ROMs being so incredibly important.

Yeah.

When was the last time a CD-ROM existed?

When AOL sent the CD-ROM.

Oh, goodness.

So

AOL 7.0.

I thought it was witchcraft.

I'm like, yo,

yeah, it's crazy.

Just the idea that you could skip a song on a CD, like that you didn't have to press fast forward on something and like hope that you got it, you know, right as the next song was started.

You just press the button and a new song would start playing was just like.

So we have

somebody getting an email

being ominous in the movie where it's like his email, somebody would go to the computer and like the score would be like,

um, and then

I guess they're saying the future is VR being able to work virtually, but you have to be in some sort of crazy universe with gloves to go find your flyer.

Was a big 90s obsession.

Yeah, like, where's this going?

It's almost like when flying cars were an obsession in the 60s.

Idea that you would leave the physical world and spend so much time, like, sort of fully immersed in some alternate and not in the office which you know by the way it's kind of what we where we ended up during covid just that's what i was gonna ask you like watching this during covet when we were living in a virtual society like did it i thought that's what i'm saying i thought the movie was pretty good about like predicting future just like the face time element of it all right that's just seemed completely insane insane

total recall i think total recall invented that probably remember the face time on the tv yeah either that or the usher you don't have to call video yeah they have one of them too um

all of the technology and this stuff like the you know the digital communication the sort of the idea that like people would want to leave the physical realm and like be completely lost somewhere else whether they're doing their job or doing something else um

and again just like the creeping sense that this wasn't a good thing That's what I felt like the movie was saying to me.

Like, I know like this stuff seems new and exciting, but like the movie is very skeptical.

In a lot of ways, it's an art versus commerce movie.

Yeah.

In a lot of ways, it's a, how do we break ground and use new technology to go to different frontiers?

Do something cool.

Right.

And then who's going to profit from it?

And is it going to be done in a way that's responsible or in a way that prioritizes doing something new and different.

Like, I got the Vision Pro and I played around, played around on the Vision Pro.

And And then the only thing that was super awesome about it was like, you guys are making judgments.

That's not what I'm going to say.

That's not what I'm going to say.

I see both of the looks on your faces.

I just

nervous.

I'm not going to say that.

Watching NBA games on the Vision Pro is actually super dangerous.

You could see the Lakers not play defense in a totally different way.

Why you got to do that?

Like, what?

What's your...

You got to let go.

In 2025, Bill, you got to let go of vendettas.

I just love making fun of the Lakers.

How is that a vendetta?

It happens.

You love making fun of shit.

Like what?

I don't know.

What do you like making fun of?

The Celtics.

But yeah, so like, but all of the things that Division Pro could do, and it's a very cool piece of,

but really what I'm doing is

watching NBA games on it, pulling it.

You should be doing anyway.

Doing all of that stuff.

But it's more fun to do with somebody sitting right next to you.

It's more fun to do with Kalika at your crib.

It's more fun to do it that way.

So, I think we thought that we would be doing all of this amazing stuff with this technology.

And don't get me wrong, there are people are the people that are, but we're just kind of not.

We're just kind of like passing the time with it, you know.

So, Michael Creighton sold the movie rights for a million dollars before the novel was published.

Wow, before the novel was published, big dog in the book, the difference.

Hold on, hold on for a second.

He's a motherfucking man.

He got a million bucks.

He's like, I have this idea.

Gives them the one-paragraph description.

They're like, here's a million dollars.

Oh, that's,

man, give it up to big Kreitz, man.

So in the book, Tom obtains enough evidence, the Michael Douglas character, to overturn Meredith and Phil, and they both get fired, but the merger doesn't go through.

And Tom doesn't receive his promotion.

And then

Meredith and Phil get better jobs somewhere else.

So it's a little cynical.

It's like this actually worked out for them.

They're in a better spot.

$50 million budget made $214 million.

Mammoth hit.

It's a smash.

Mammoth hit.

In 94.

People love Michael Douglas Scott.

His dick got him in trouble again.

That's like all they had to do in the commercial campaign.

That's all I got to do.

I had to do for the trailer.

I'm telling you.

Get that $3.99 rental going.

The story of the movie was so robust.

Like the story around the premise of the movie, it was like a, it was one of those things.

It was literally controversial.

It was genuinely controversial.

Like, one of those things that

they were talking about, like on the Today Show, they were talking about it.

This is actually a movie where a woman sexually harasses a man.

I'll say something about Demi Moore is casting that part

is

really

to make it believable.

The actress that has to play.

Well, we have a great casting went in for it because somebody else was supposed to get it.

So we'll talk about that later.

Yeah, her sexual magnetism has to be like...

But also the sheer, the strength that she can dominate a man and turn heel.

It's a great part.

Yeah.

Creighton was saying that the reason he did it this way was because everyone would know the other way.

If it was the female that was being sexually harassed, it's like people...

the flipping it.

Oh, that's what he said.

Well, that's, I'm just reporting.

So he said the flipping it was what made it interesting because it made people kind of re-evaluate what sexual harassment was.

Yeah.

but it's also what made it so controversial.

I've never read the book.

Talking to Sean outside before we came in, he's like, the book is a little bit less ambiguous.

It's like this woman is pure evil.

Yeah.

And she's come to ruin this, this poor great dad's life.

Was the movie?

I don't think that's it.

Which is very similar to the fatal attraction theme.

I don't think the movie is that 2D.

I think this character is a little bit more 3D in terms of her ambitions.

At the end.

Yeah.

Throughout the, throughout the, the,

at the end, they, they humanize her a little bit.

But

throughout the, she is straight up Lucifer incarnate.

She's lying.

And then even when they catch her in the lie, she doesn't pivot back.

She doesn't say, my bad for lying.

She doubles down.

Yeah.

Like, then at the end, you start to realize that she kind of is a woman that's getting grinded up in the boys' club and is trying to survive it.

That's like, again, that's why I think the movie's a little bit more three-dimensional.

I think what they're trying to say is like, there's no other way to be a CEO.

Like, the way that you are one of these corner office executives is like, if somebody crosses you, you kill them.

That's it.

And you bring the power of the institution to bear on that person.

You rally your big dogs around you and you kill them.

And that's what she tried to do.

And I think to me, the movie is just saying, this is exactly what a man would do in this position.

There's like quotes where there's like, when did I have the power?

She had the power.

Like, the movie is making it.

And when he starts yelling at the man,

that's one of the funniest things.

He yells at the man, hey, come on down here.

I have the power.

Yeah.

Roger Ebert, not impressed by this movie.

Really?

Two stars.

Wow.

He wrote, it is an exercise in pure cynicism with little respect for its subject or for its thriller plot, which I defy anyone to explain.

The theme is basically a launch pad for sex scenes.

And yet the movie is so sleek, so glossy, so filled with possesso porn that you can enjoy it like a sharper image catalog that walks and talks.

Jesus Christ.

He was not feeling this way.

He was insanely well written.

I'll tell you this, though.

Watching the movie now,

it is with just everything and the way things are now.

And like kind of where I'm at, it is

very unhorny.

I mean, it's horny at the beginning,

but it,

for all intents and purposes, blows its whole wad after that scene.

And then there is no more sexuality in the movie whatsoever.

And that is the entire rest of the movie.

This movie isn't in any way to me an erotic thriller.

It has a Yeah, it doesn't throw in like the sex scene with his wife where he starts to get carried away into

scene.

Nothing.

Like none of that stuff happens that

the rest of the erotic thrillers all have.

It doesn't exist in this one.

all right we're going to most rewatchable scenes today's the most rewatchable scene brought to you by paramount plus this holiday season your mission should you choose to accept it is to watch every mission impossible on paramount plus

van might do this catch up on the greatest action franchise of all time starring tom cruise of course now streaming on paramount plus all right rewatchable scenes i'll do that right after i finish watching everything taylor sheridan has ever made every second of it i'm right there with you are you caught up on land man No, not yet.

Landman's great.

Yeah.

All right, first rewatchable scene.

Tom finds out he might be out of a job.

Just throwing that in there.

Second one,

Tom and Meredith see each other for the first time right into Douglas angrily talking, telling his staff about it.

Goddamn Garvin.

What happened?

I didn't get it.

What?

You're not the new VP?

He announced it.

With some kind of secret.

Meanwhile, he's got her installed up there in the office.

They're bouncing back and forth like it's a fucking tonight show.

Who?

Meredith Johnson?

Who's Meredith Johnson?

This isn't going to affect the spin-off.

This is a technical division.

She doesn't know the difference between a software and a cashmere sweater.

Hey, come on now.

What aren't you telling us?

Hey, I might be out of a job, Lou and how about that?

Is that enough?

You know what it's like out there?

He did say something about the spin-off.

They didn't tell me about me.

You think they're going to tell me about the goddamn spin-off?

Which features some of the funniest workplace banter.

So good.

You can't even believe it.

So good.

It's just like you're watching it going, oh my God, like there's 19 different lines in this scene that would be an hr violation 100 um i had that as a rewatchable scene when he realizes he got passed over and he goes and tells his like sort of team or whatever and they just start basically debating feminism right out of nowhere hey let me guess uh she's attractive what does that have to do with anything great rack nipples like pencil erasers she's attractive yeah she's very attractive you think she's sleeping with garvin that's why he bought the nordic track you know it's a curse to be me life holds no surprises this is such a cliche Oh, come on, Hunter.

How do you think a cliche becomes a cliche?

You mean like size doesn't matter?

I have such a thing for you, Hunter.

All right, all right, please.

Can we get some work done here?

That's what they're doing.

They're going back and forth, and Dennis Miller's like, you know, the typical guy, like, he's killing the guy's crack.

Dennis Miller is the avatar for the cool chick in the office.

Yes.

Who can

talk like the guy?

She can talk to her.

And also, just like the avatar for like the new American workplace, there's like this woman who is an engineer and she went to school for it and she knows her stuff just as well as anybody else.

But she's explaining to her male colleagues the difficulties of being a woman in these environments and everybody being like, yeah, get over it, whatever.

I love that scene.

Next scene.

Tom goes to have a drink with Meredith.

Yeah.

Stop by the office around seven.

Picked out a bottle of wine for us.

Yeah.

The radar gun gun I had for Demi in this scene

around this Chapman range.

It's like she's throwing 108.

It's nuts.

108.

She's so good in this scene.

I say, because there's no nudity in the scene.

No.

It is the hottest non-nude sex scene ever.

Wow.

There's no way.

We'll be back on the Mr.

Skin podcast after this.

Been a member since night.

Been a member for a long time.

But it's it, and it's and maybe it shouldn't be, because I think that's part of the scene.

Part of the scene is that

if those roles are reversed, you're not in any way supposed to find that appealing.

If those roles are reversed and it's the man that is pushing up, the scene is kind of an indictment of the viewer in a way, too.

Because she's being so aggressive and she won't take no for an answer.

Honestly, there's a part of that that is

a part of that that's hot.

And so you're supposed to feel a little nasty after you realize that this is a married guy.

Well, you know, they have their history, though, too, because she's playing the history piece of it.

Like, come on, for all time's sake.

I think why I find the movie to be interesting is that

the way they deploy it is that like Michael Douglas kind of wants it.

That's that's what I think.

When she says, rub my shoulders and I'll listen to your problems.

It's like, all right.

I'll rub your shoulders.

You know what he's like, but there's a familiarity there to where it wasn't coming from someone whose shoulders he's never rubbed before.

100%.

And he just keeps going and going and going.

Wait, you left at the party.

She's like, let me see some photos of the fam.

And he's showing her.

And she says something.

He goes, well, she never lost the weight from the second baby.

She just straight up.

She just straight up.

She straight up looks at her and goes, she looks like she always keeps food in the refrigerator.

I'm like, God damn.

Kill her.

Kill her.

She's like, the only thing in my refrigerator is a bottle of champagne and an orange.

I'm like, okay, you trying to say my wife fat?

Yeah.

Then she starts doing the remember all the things we did.

I guess it's gonna be a bit inhibiting.

What's that?

Domesticity.

Oh, you'd be surprised.

Well, I don't imagine you can jump her from behind just because all of a sudden you get excited by the way she bends down to pick up the soap.

You remember that, don't you?

Yeah, I remember that.

And you miss it.

I have my compensations.

Of course you do.

Life's a series of trade-offs.

Isn't that what you tell yourself?

Well, I wouldn't trade what I have if that's what you're saying.

I wouldn't want you to.

It's exactly why I can trust you.

You have a lot more to lose than I do.

And that was a very common trope back in the day.

Like old, old girlfriends, yeah, the old flames.

The ice cream

and all of that stuff, yeah.

So then we just get going and a lot of dirty talk.

Doesn't really work out we do get uh

this is then i had waz knows i'm gonna do this

we have this we have single white female yeah which are in the in the finals of guy getting a blow job pretending he doesn't want one but he's also enjoying it and starting oh oh no oh no oh no no oh no no

I think single white female is better.

It's better because he because he knows who it is.

He's like, ah, and then he'll finish.

But then after, but after a single white female, he gets.

He hits a shoe in the eye.

Yeah, he gets angry.

Yeah.

He gets like self-righteous.

Oh, you don't have to tell her because I'm going to tell her.

Yeah.

You're going to tell your girlfriend the next day that her roommate gave you a blowjob, but you didn't know it was her.

Yeah.

Good luck, though.

You knew it was me.

So he gets out of there.

She has the classic language.

Hold on.

Before that, like the point that I love,

the reason why he stops, he somehow looks at his reflection in like a glass or something.

He's like, is that kind of like a bad thing?

He's kind of like a wild animal.

Yeah.

He's looking in the mirror and he's just like, oh, easiest great shot gordo of all time.

What am I doing?

You know, he's like, what am I doing?

And then he stops.

And yeah, she, some of the things.

You stick your dick in my mouth and then you get an attack of morality.

It's a good line.

It's a good line.

He responds, I have a family now.

Yeah.

What?

You get back here and you finish what you started.

That scene is fucking batshit crazy.

She is.

It is batshit crazy.

Walks out.

Yeah, with her bra.

I mean, she's in her bra.

She's leaning over.

She's

back here.

The hottest, guys.

There's no other way to say it.

The hottest woman in Hollywood at the time.

You could maybe make an argument for Sharon Stone or whomever, whatever.

Begging, begging for a guy to come come back into the office and have disgusting nasty sex with her it's just an unbelievably magnetic scene yeah and she's and if you're a demi moore you got to give it all to that scene and she's great

next we watchable dennis miller on the double date with douglas just blowing blown his cover

doing Dennis Miller lines you see this is my big shot asshole it's not like I'm getting scouted by the NBA yeah it's like I don't know if they just let him write all his lines They all sound like things that it's more said.

I've got to you.

And then the wife sticks up for him.

Yeah.

I love that.

Gradient, Tommy.

Yeah.

So

let's just have a nice evening.

It's like, I'm pretty sure the evening's been ruined.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But she's a ride or die.

And then that also leads to Tom getting mad at

mad at her after about the whole thing.

So that was, that was one of my, like when he actually comes clean to his wife and she just like goes down the list of like how much of a fuck up this guy is.

Yeah.

She's reading him the riot riot act.

I just thought that was very well done.

He does his responses.

Sexual harassment is about power.

When did I have the power?

When?

Barry Levinson, outro music.

Next scene.

Let's go.

Tom's sexual harassment deposition

is hilarious.

That

dude

is excellent.

Yeah, he's good.

The lawyer dude.

Yeah.

Both lawyers.

Very strong.

Really good lawyer

He has a female lawyer.

Yes.

And he has the typical old male boys club lawyer.

So would a gynecologist get an erection when he sees it?

Great question.

Just like, just playing all the hits.

That's a very squirmy scene.

And then Meredith's deposition.

Baby Leonardo.

When they find the 91 Paul Meyer.

I said to get a nice Chardonnay, I remembered that Tom liked white wine from those trips to Napa, that he was sort of an amateur wine connoisseur and that he would be impressed by an ice bottle.

Yes.

Do you remember the wine?

No.

The 91 Paul Meyer?

Yes, that's right.

Do you know where your assistant got that wine?

I assume that she got it from the liquor store down the street.

Would it surprise you to know, Miss Johnson, that there isn't a single liquor store in Seattle that carries that bottle?

Mrs.

Ross is very resourceful.

Very resourceful?

A bottle of wine you you can't find within 500 miles of Seattle.

I have no idea where she got the bottle of wine.

Isn't it true, Ms.

Johnson, that you told Mrs.

Ross three weeks ago that you wanted a bottle of the 91 Paul Meyer for your meeting with Mr.

Sanders?

That's not true.

And when she couldn't find it, you said, oh, oh, whoa, what was that?

It had such managerial brio.

Oh, here it is.

If you don't find the wine find a replacement

and they realize it's not sold within 500 miles or whatever that's that's really good a bit of a like a baby wine guy i was proud of that moment it's like how were you gonna get a wine from four years ago or three years ago whatever it was at your local store three days ago but see these that's

good good legal stuff that's the legal stuff that's the courtroom drama stuff the next one is when he he finally somehow gets the tape which we'll talk about later in nitpicks.

And

they play the tape and she knows she's cooked.

Yeah.

And then she turns and defends the Tal.

Haven't you ever said no and meant yes, Mrs.

Alvarez?

It's like, oh, okay, we're going here now.

Literally, like,

sometimes no means the person wants to be overwhelmed.

That's the equivalent.

We're recording this.

That's the equivalent of the Sharon Stone interrogation series.

100%.

And then she has the big speech, which Craig's going to play now.

Well, when he really wanted to stop, he didn't seem to have any problems doing it, did he?

And that's when you got angry.

Of course I got angry.

So would anyone.

Don't we tell women that they can stop at any point?

Haven't you ever said no and meant yes, Mrs.

Alvarez?

Up until the moment of actual penalty.

The point is, he was willing.

That tape doesn't change anything.

The point is, you control the meeting.

You set the time.

You order the wine.

You lock the door.

You demanded service.

And then you got angry when he didn't provide it.

So you decided to get even.

To get rid of him with this trumped-up charge.

Ms.

Johnson, the only thing you have proven is that a woman in power can be every bit as abusive as a man.

You want to put me on trial here?

Let's at least be honest about what it's for.

I am a sexually aggressive woman.

I like it.

Tom knew it, and you can't handle it.

It is the same damn thing since the beginning of time.

Veil it, hide it, lock it up, and throw away the key.

We expect a woman to do a man's job, make a man's money, and then walk around with a parasol and lie down for a man to fuck her like it was still 100 years ago.

Well, no thank you.

We expect a woman to do a man's job, make a man's money, and then walk around with a parasol and lie down for a man to fuck her like it was still 100 years ago.

Well, no thank you.

Classic.

So good.

And for me, we still haven't hit the best scene in the movie yet because we get Tom sneaking into the hotel room to get the VR files.

All of a sudden, this becomes a Star Trek movie for five minutes.

And it's VR.

He almost falls over into the VR cliff.

You know what's funny?

The special effects are so bad.

And then the Demi Moore 3D Avatar jump scare.

Yeah.

I don't know where she comes in.

She's in the system.

Oh, my God.

She's deleting the files.

It's the fucking Lawnmore, man.

Even when I fucking watch, when I watch that scene, when I watch that scene, I'm thinking, look how.

like harrowing that is.

He almost falls off the thing.

I do that for fun at home.

It's a game on the Oculus called Frank's Plank Adventure.

You got the Oculus and the Vision Pro?

I'll go in, baby.

It is called Frank's Plank Adventure.

And the funniest thing is like watching people play it because you're walking across a plank between two gigantic skyscrapers, but you're in the VR.

So the people that are walking across your living room are legitimately doing like this.

They're scared.

Some people cry and get down.

So all of that technology, we use it for bullshit.

Right.

I'm telling you, we used it to have a good time with it.

Not to get files.

Not to get files.

Not to get files.

And change the world and espionage with the angels and all that.

Make sure you don't get fired from your company.

Shout out to

Demi Moore's.

I'm angrily using my computer face.

Yeah.

She's fired up.

I love that scene.

It's so stupid.

I also love, I had this on One Sage the Best.

This device that really was only in the 90s when somebody needed to get into somebody's hotel room and they would would just call and be like, Hey, I need my roommate up.

It's 311.

They're like, Sure thing, sir.

And then you just walk into the room, and the maid's like, Hello, sir.

I promise this doesn't work in real life.

Yeah, that's the room.

I always have questions about this because I wonder, like, could anyone do this?

Because they do it in Pacific Heights.

Melanie Griffith gets in there.

Yeah, like people could get in their rooms, and the security seemed to be lax.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, if room service is doing your room, the door is just open.

How do they know who's actually staying there?

The big stockholder meeting showdown.

Demir gets fired.

Yeah.

Tough.

Unrealistic, but fun to watch.

And then the ending.

Stephanie gets a job.

Turns out she was a friend all along.

Who could have seen that coming?

Counting on you to be my right hand, Tom.

We haven't even talked about Tom.

Talks about the son.

The a friend.

Yeah.

Are you a chemistry major?

Yeah, I am.

Happy music.

Tom's got his job back and his family's still there.

Demi Moore's out of a job.

And women won.

There's one scene you're leaving out.

Okay.

By far, the most hilarious scene in the movie.

It's not even close.

This is the funniest scene in the movie.

The dream sequence.

I had that in What Stage the Worst?

Because I hate it.

Donald Sutherland making a move on him.

So good.

That is so funny.

What is that suit man?

What is that suit man out of Tom?

And all of a sudden, Tom is, he's, he's grabbing Tom.

Dude, his mouth is wide open.

His tongue is sticking out into the camera.

It's a good jump scare.

Yeah.

So what do we have for most rewatchable?

Oh, come on.

Oh, I know Vance answered.

He's the text scene.

It is.

I mean, it made Vance mixtape for a reason.

Yeah.

I love the VR hotel room.

Makes me laugh.

It is very funny as well.

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Next category, what's the most 1994 thing about this movie other than all the sexual harassment and workplace stuff that we talked about?

I'll give you some nominees.

Sure.

Dad, you got an email.

Here's one.

The Jeep Cherokee.

Ben doesn't read your email.

No, he doesn't.

The Jeep Cherokee is very 1990.

Super, it was the dream car for me at that time.

1990 Seattle?

Put me in the Sean Kemp singles.

They had literally a ghost.

Early Starbucks.

Yeah.

Love that.

Dennis Miller just being cast as an actor working as a computer programmer in Michael Douglas' group.

Oh, we have him coming up later.

But I think the casual sex harassment.

Him's hitting the assistant with the files on her butt.

Great job.

I think that's the single most 1994 thing about the movie.

It's that, and it's just the way that they're talking about sex.

Is this a way that we just don't do that in public ever these days?

Oh, Van thinks it's coming back.

I think it is too.

As long as we get the Craig Horlbecks out of the way so we can have fun in it.

I know.

The fun police.

What's age the best?

Speaking of Dennis Miller,

I like when movies bring in comedians, and this was a great Dennis Mower.

This is my favorite stretch of Dennis Mower.

I loved his HBO show.

I liked when he's in this.

I liked when he's in the net.

He was in the net too, yeah.

But I like when they bring the people in and just let them kind of cook as themselves.

The thing was, hey, this movie's not very funny.

Yeah.

Just come in for four

five scenes.

Yeah.

Give us a little funny.

Get your check.

Go home.

She doesn't give you a boner because she's definitely giving me liftoff.

Just like all these like cliché.

Dennis Moni's just ripped him off.

They were really smart when Meredith shows up for just another what's age the best of making Tom kind of undercutting him.

Like they have that one part when he sits at the table and he's in the smallest chair.

She makes fun of his tie and he kind of looks down.

Like he's just off balance for the first five minutes.

He sits in the small chair.

That's another funny scene in the movie.

Oh, yeah.

And he's just below everyone.

Yeah.

He was starting the day because this takes place over like a week.

So he's starting the day on a high.

And we know this because they start each day with Monday.

Yeah.

Bong.

And so like the shining.

He uh, he starts the day on such a high, and he just gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller throughout the day.

You have, I have a couple more.

Do you have any?

What's HBS?

Yeah, for me, it's definitely like the corporate culture portrayal.

Um, the Dylan Baker character, Philip Blackburn, yeah, like that, like typical corporate blunt instrument machine where like

he's just not a human being, he's just a freaking automaton, basically.

Like, for instance, like Van comes into our office.

Whenever he's here, he's like humanizing the situation.

Let's talk, let's engage, let's have some human connections.

This is nice, this is a nice moment for you.

It's what happens.

This

movie shows you what the typical corporate culture is, which is like, leave your humanity at the freaking door.

And I thought that that's, for me, that's what aged the best about the movie.

The

conversation about consent

when they had it was like verbatim, the conversations that we ended up.

They literally have a conversation in the movie about living consent.

that the idea that consent is born at any time and it dies at any time.

And when we started having that conversation again, when I say we, I mean us as a society

during the Me Too movement, it was sometimes positions as if it was the first time, like I said before, that that conversation had ever been had.

And it wasn't.

And so when I saw that, I was like, you know, it might be good for us.

to remind ourselves that we've been talking about this stuff for a long time.

And maybe you don't put it on any specific generation or any specific group of people.

And you remember that these things are things that we're socially legislating and we should continue to socially legislate them until we get to it.

But this was a 90s movie thing, though.

And we did like Wesley and I did Philadelphia for Rewatchable.

It's the same thing.

It was like Hollywood knowing there were these big important topics that they needed to hit, being super clumsy about it, but hitting a bunch of it anyway.

And then other parts where you're like, oh, why'd they do that?

So

that's another thing to Van's point that I think the movie does a good job of predicting this this sort of white male angst where like the identitarian way that we do everything now like that guy in the train in the beginning 100 and he's talking classically they got like women in the workplace or all of that all of these anxieties to the point where you know when tom is yelling at his uh his wife in the in the kitchen and he literally says i'm that evil white straight male like this is they're predicting the freaking discourse that's happening over and over and over again in our current society about like, you know, the white straight male being basically like the devil's avatar, right?

This movie's doing that, predicting that.

Looking at me for it.

Mort would say it's the best.

The elevator opening and Dimi Moore.

And she just goes going down.

Bro.

And he doesn't know whether he should get it or not.

She's at just a couple of great entrances with it.

I really love the sneaking into somebody's hotel room to get information and then juxtapose with the person on their way up to the room and not knowing if they're going to get out in time.

Yeah, that always works for me.

I also am always into the

guy who comes home after obviously some sort of adultery moment has happened.

It's like, I'm just going to take a quick shower.

If I came home, barely talked to my wife, I was like, just quick shower, I'll be right back.

My wife would be like, what the hell happened?

I'm checking you for scratch marks.

This is one of my biggest nitpicks.

D-Ray Davis, shout out to D-Ray Davis.

D-Ray Davis has a ridiculously funny stand-up bit about this.

He goes,

If you're going to be out there, you're going to be cheating on your girl, messing around with your girl, you just got to need to take showers all the time.

Right.

Random times.

He was like,

showers all the time, random times.

And then when you come

and you get in the shower and she asks you about it, you could be like, girl, I take showers all the time.

But he comes home, he goes,

he sends her on an errand.

Yeah.

Like, go get me a beer.

So get away from the stink of Meredith.

Yeah.

And the smell of wine on my breath.

And the Wolverine scar I got.

I'm going to get in the shower.

Well, it also, there's some good filmmaking in this movie because he's in the shower and he's got the scratch marks.

And then the wife comes in.

And he's just like, and then he has to get out.

He has the towel.

And it's just, it's, he's just trying to hide the scratches for a few minutes.

It's compelling.

And then you think, why are you wearing a t-shirt?

You know that he's in it up to his ears.

And the wife goes, who's Meredith?

And you're like, oh my God, what?

Yeah.

And she goes, Meredith just called.

And you were, hey, dog, think of something.

Like,

think of something to say.

That whole scene is really good.

Here's,

yeah, that's it.

That's all I got.

Because we talked about the other stuff.

The Fortune 3 Clap Award for Most Gifable Moment.

Honestly, the Demi More Evil 3D Avatar, I might have to start working into stuff.

There was one, there's a moment at the end where, um,

at the last board meeting, where he basically lays out the case that she, you know, is an idiot and incompetent.

She's the one that actually needs to be fired.

And he mouths the word bye-bye to her.

Oh, that would be a good one.

That would be a nice.

I gotta go.

Should I send that to the Lakers fanbox

after they give up 40 tonight to Atlanta?

Like, I mine is

when

she

is leaning over the balcony when she just comes out of the room and she's going like, get back here.

Yeah.

That's mine.

Okay.

Just for your own personal pleasure.

No, I'm just saying that's a good gift.

Great check order award.

Most cinematic shot.

You already did it.

I do like the escalator scene when they have the tape and they're going up and Demi Moore kind of knows something's up.

And they ride up, they're going up.

And then you see them behind and she's just kind of like, hmm.

There's another shot for me.

It's like her first scene in the movie, like

before we see her, it's just a shot of her shoes and Michael Douglas, like, looking down, and he's like, Wait a second, who the

who is this?

Yeah, and then she's revealed, and then we're off to the races.

Denneth's Benny Hanna Award, Scene Stealing Location, that office building, which they built for the movie.

Oh, from scratch, built from scratch because Levinson wanted a set that had all glass so people could see what each other was doing.

And he just felt like so they built it.

And

they still really good.

So it's still on the $50 million budget.

They built a whole office set.

Did they shoot in Seattle?

Yeah.

Huh.

We rarely get to give out either of these awards, and I'm going to do both of them.

The Elizabeth Shu is an Oxford Electrochemist Award.

And the Vincent Chase Award for Are We Sure, This Character Was Actually Good Addis Job.

Both goes to Meredith.

She's a former Miss Teen, New Mexico, now working as a higher-up in Malaysian conduit for a computer technology company.

I'm going to say it's a stretch.

It's tough.

Not into it.

No.

We don't know what happened after she might have gone to like MIT or something.

Maybe.

But not.

And again,

that's what, again, the movie wants you to think is like, it's not that she's some excellent worker.

She's an operator and a mover.

And like, you know, the older woman who eventually gets it, like when her and Tom are sitting there and they're watching this woman's Demi Moore's Ascent.

And basically, like, she's like, yeah, I got passed over too.

I've been here longer.

I'm more tenured.

I'm more qualified.

But this person came in and stole the show.

Well, here's the case for her not being good at her job.

She completely fucked up the product, right?

She was like, yeah, yeah, let's use the cheaper stuff and we won't tell people.

And then the product got delayed.

Then she comes up with this crazy scheme to frame her ex-lover in a sexual harassment thing so that she could then blame it on him, I guess, for incompetence.

Then she's, she.

She's on tape visiting the line.

Yeah.

She can't, and she acts like, she's got to act like she's never sent you.

Terrible.

Bad at her job.

The big Kahuna Burger Award, best use of food or drink.

The 91 bottle, 91 Palmire, which is huge.

Perfect.

Okay.

She, oh, and when she hands him the glass

and he's like, wow, you got this on deck.

And she's like,

I like to keep the boys below me happy.

Yeah.

This is too good.

Butch's girlfriend award, weak link of the film.

For me, we already mentioned it.

I don't know why they had to do the, like, if you're actually just fundamentally looking at this as a movie, you don't need to do the sexual harassment plot.

You just blame him for the CD-ROMs being fucked up, blindside him at the end, and he gets it.

But the reality is, if you don't do the sexual harassment plot, you don't have a movie.

You don't have a movie.

You don't have a poster.

You don't have an ad campaign.

I hate to say this, but the weak link of the movie is the wife.

Oh, I had her in What's Age the Worst?

Really?

Why do you say that?

I told Carrie when I was about to come to work today, I was like, there's a take that Van's going to have that maybe I've worked with Van too long, but I know exactly what the take's going to be.

So go ahead.

Like, the wife is the weak league of the movie, right?

Because number one,

she can't really feel, she doesn't really know.

She's not in Demi Moore's league, right?

And she gets it and she understands that.

But

she doesn't really add anything in any way.

She wants to be a ride or die.

But then at the same time, she's being a nag and gag, which we don't like.

Yeah.

and then like she doesn't really

part of me is like

he should have gone with demi morning

the power couple

um i i have that coming up um

something like that so my issue with her was i didn't feel like she was pissed off enough Yeah,

especially like the one proposition where Demi Moore is like, I remember I told him that his wife, he said his wife hadn't lost the baby weight yet.

So if we're comparing her to Triple Horn or to

Triple Horn's another one.

But Triple Horn was different, though.

Triple Horn in Basic Instinct was a constant reminder of who he really was.

Right.

The wife here doesn't really do that.

She kind of vacillates back and forth, and then she's out of the movie.

Doesn't seem to know his history either.

If I have a charitable view of what the movie's trying to do with this sexual harassment thing, it's like we think dudes are too Neanderthal in

to understand sexual harassment at a high level.

So let's turn the tables and make it a dude who's being sexually harassed and can't do anything about it.

Right.

And so it's like your job and your higher ups are coming after you.

And then there's the people closest to you like, well, did you really?

Like, maybe you made the person think that you kind of did want it.

Yeah.

It's kind of sound like Diana Smeller did.

Why'd you go up there?

That's what it felt like the wife was doing, which like at first she believed it, but then when she sat in the depth position, it's like, maybe you did want it.

Maybe that's what I felt like her role was.

It's like even the people closest to you start questioning your integrity

and whether you deserve it.

The Dennis Miller thought was something,

I just be honest with you.

The Dennis Miller thought was something that people had been talking about.

Cause I remember in an actual real case, which was Mike Tyson's case with Desiree Washington, there was

he like.

He had invited her up there.

It was like two o'clock and they were going to play board games or something like that.

And none of this excuses anything.

that that, but I remember people having the argument about

why would you go to somebody's room at that time?

It's a poor argument to have, but that was Dennis Miller's.

It was a 90s argument.

It was a 90s argument.

Yeah.

She was a little too dutiful, the wife, and a little too forgiving,

especially near the end.

I just feel like there would have been a scene where

I don't know,

she asked him for some coffee or he asked her for some coffee and she's just mad.

She's like, why don't you ask your whore to get the coffee?

You put your dude in her mouth.

And just like she just starts screaming at him for no reason.

Right.

Which definitely probably happens.

As somebody who's been chewed out a time or two by a significant other, I tend to agree with you.

Maybe a little bit too lenient.

What's age the worst?

Just CD-ROMs being a crucial plot point.

Yeah.

I had the Donald Southern trying to kiss me nightmare.

The full circle movement, moment where at the end, the assistant slaps Michael Douglas on the ass.

It's like, oh, we've come full circle.

Terrible moment.

We all do it.

The endings.

The ending email: Daddy, we miss you.

A family.

So corny.

I would have told Levinson, like, dude, dude.

Get that.

Let's just end it when she

horseshoes that way.

It starts like a Disney movie and

it's like one.

A friend being Arthur Friend, tacky.

Any other What's Age the worst?

The Sonics, man.

And when I saw that ghost,

I was like, that could also have been a What's Age the best.

Yeah.

Seattle loves the Sonnies.

They still do.

The Ruffle Hannah Rubinik Partridge overacting word.

Douglas wins it multiple times.

You think it's Douglas?

Who do you think it is?

Donald Sutherland.

Interesting.

Cartoonishly.

What about him yelling at when he's yelling at his wife and he yells at the maid?

Come on down here.

Listen.

I'm going to sexually

female rage.

I don't think that's

a good thing.

I go Sutherland because in that scene where they're talking about crushing Tom and he's like, We want to crush him, and then he grabs his subordinate's dick.

Yeah, yeah, that is a moment.

Come on, you know, I'm gonna Zach.

I think it's Dylan Baker, and because he is so swarmy, yeah, he is from the moment he steps into frame, you're like, That's the guy I'm not supposed to like, right?

He is laying it on, we're friends, yeah.

Was there a better title for this movie?

No, no, no, it's perfect.

Can you dig it a word for most memorable quote?

I think we know what it is.

Yeah.

Bill, give it to us, bro.

The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford.

Hottest take a word.

Mine, I already gave.

I think Demi Moore's two best roles ever.

We're so almost fired at this movie.

I love that take.

Mine is Michael Douglas and not Frank Sinatra is actually the coolest man who's ever lived.

Just for being able to pull off these roles over and over again.

I believe that these women want to fuck him.

Yeah.

And I believe that this guy has a burning desire to fuck these women.

Every single thing, like, it's in him.

It's, it's pouring out of this guy.

Like, his, he, he's just thirsty.

And then, of course, you know, he marries Catherine Zayda Jones.

Like, bro, he's like, he's probably the number one actor ever where you're watching the sex scene thinking, like, I wonder if they actually like fucked her in there.

So, this is my,

it's almost yours, but it's different.

Like, mine is that I think he is a stone cold freak in real life.

Yeah.

Remember when he got mouth cancer from the

like, remember that?

Yeah, he's a

stone-cold freak in real life.

That's why he is so good as a freak

in these roles.

There's a version of the American president.

I've always said that.

There's a version of that.

That's an erotic thriller.

Cheating American President?

That's an even better.

An even better version of the mobile guy.

You know why we know he's a freak?

Because of the basic instinct scene when he just walks to the bathroom naked produce and the director is like, yo, Michael, we can kind of see your ball swaying during this.

And he's like, let it fly, man.

Keep it in.

Keep it in.

Sounds great.

Hey, Roxy, let's have a talk.

Man to man.

Casting what ifs.

Mulos Foreman originally attached to direct

but left due to creative differences.

And then Levinson got hired.

So originally set to play Meredith, Annette Benning.

Doesn't work.

Got pregnant and dropped out and then ended up making American president with him a year later.

Beautiful, fantastic actress.

Probably pound for pound a better actress than Demi Moore, but it doesn't quite work.

No, she can't.

No.

Demi Moore ended up getting it over Gina Davis and Michelle Pfeiffer.

Pfeiffer would have worked.

Pfeiffer could have worked.

Pfeiffer would have worked.

I don't know if she does it at that point in her career.

Yeah.

She's in her, I gotta save kids at a high school while Coolio Song plays Facebook.

The woman from Scarface?

Yeah.

Yeah.

80s, Michelle Pfeiffer.

Well, Fabulous Baker Boys, Michelle Pfeiffer.

And then Michael Creighton wrote the character because he knew they were going to turn the book into a movie as he was writing it because he's like, I got this.

And he wrote the character mark for Dennis Miller in his head as he was writing it.

Okay.

Well, it's always a pleasure to give this award out.

The Van Lathan Award.

Did this movie need more black people?

It had one guy that I saw sitting behind somebody.

And

he literally, so one guy was sitting behind him.

And I could tell tell that he, whoever this extra was or this day player, was trying to let his people back in Cincinnati know that he was in the movie.

Yeah.

Because he's sitting behind her, and he's like, he's trying to look.

He's trying to see.

He's getting like, he's trying to look when they're at the thing.

And the black guy that they had in it was one too many.

Like, we need to stay.

That was my answer to no.

There's just stay out of harm.

We don't need any black people in any of this, any involved in any of this stuff.

That's that that guy a word the nerdy guy on douglas's team who played angel whatever oh yeah his name's nicholas sadler i know that guy from different movies i don't even know where else i've seen him but he's like a great that guy um the the the son the the conley jr dude

the the the the basically the son of the ceo yeah comes in and he's like doing all the talking yeah he's one of those guys he's a that guy

is joe irla is his name is dylan baker that guy or is dylan baker dynam baker's dynamer for me he's that guy Yeah.

Because I had to Google his name name.

Deion Wader's a word.

I don't know if Tom's lawyer is in it too much, but she's a kid.

Yeah, it's the two lawyers for me.

Both lawyers.

The other lawyer, angry, semi-sexist, laid-off guy in the ferry in the first scene.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's good.

My pick would be Dennis Miller.

I think he's not in it quite enough.

And every time he comes in, he's just fucking throwing sliders and curbs.

He's a lot of the awards.

The movie needs him.

Otherwise, it's a pretty stiff movie.

He clinched it during the scene at the dinner where he tries to out Michael Douglas to his wife.

That's where he clinched it.

And then, by the way, at the end, all of Michael Douglas's people turn on him.

Did she get to you?

Did she get to you?

Did she get to you?

And then at the end, he's fine with it.

They boys again.

Yeah.

Recasting Couch Director City.

I think this would have been an amazing David Fincher movie, and he wasn't quite David Fincher yet.

Dark.

But if it's David Fincher in the late 90s, maybe even the game david fincher just being given this movie michael douglas which the game's only three years after this but i think this would i think in fincher's hands this movie is like one of the great 90s movies yeah i think freaky directors like the palma i think the palma would have been good too he might have he might have took this over the front there would have been more sex

you know there would have been a following scene throughout seattle where

he's just following debbie moore around the city i think the movie's definitely a lot freakier if De Palmer does it.

Yeah, because Levinson was not, he was like,

yeah, he did diner.

Yeah, like his

movie has a brightness to it and a lightness to it, like that it probably shouldn't have, honestly.

We probably should have talked about Levinson more because he was one of the big commercial directors of

really mid-80s through the 90s, peaking with Rain Man.

Yeah.

Which won just about every award.

And it was a big deal when he was directing this movie.

But even that movie.

I I don't know if this was, I don't feel like Barry Levinson is a horny guy.

No, even that movie, Rain Man, is dealing with some like unbelievably heavy, heavy, heavy subject matter.

But there's a lightness to his touch that makes the movie palatable to a much, much larger audience.

And this movie kind of didn't need that.

But if maybe if, honestly, if it is Fincher, it maybe doesn't make $250 million.

Well, he basically makes this with Gongir, right?

It's a version of of the same kind of version, but we've changed at that point.

Yeah, yeah.

And you know, I'm looking on his IMDb and stuff that he's produced, and it's like a lot of TV shows that I've personally enjoyed, like Mr.

Spade and Dope Sick,

Mortal,

Shades of Blue,

with Ray Liotta and J-Lo, where Ray Liotta is just like an insane, corrupt NYPD cop, and J-Lo's trying to like keep it together as his like partner.

And teams.

I just told you.

What?

1992, Liota's last movie.

I watched it on an airplane on the way to Denver.

1992.

Tyrese.

Ray Liott.

Clint Eastwood's son.

Scott Eastwood, yeah.

There's a heist, and it's not very good, and I loved it.

Bill loved it.

I loved it for an airplane on a small square.

It was perfect.

I didn't realize that you were such a Tyrese guy.

I like Tyrese.

Yeah.

I think he's had some good actor moments.

Is that like controversial opinion?

No, he's just kind of made himself into a caricature of.

Yeah.

But I think there was more talent there than

definitely any

cat.

I mean, he's like, I mean, he's having a great career.

He's just

a public figure.

Every time we talk about any black actor, Van always gets a look on his face like, I'm going to be hearing from him later when we

know these people personally.

But I mean, Tyrese has had a...

He's one of those guys that's had a sneaky, underrated movie career.

Yeah, I don't even know if it's sneaky.

Yeah, I think it's true.

He's in the fast franchise.

Fast franchise.

but i thought baby boy he's really good in that movie bill you've never seen baby boy what the of course i've seen baby boy you you've been in the movie

yeah that's a crossover

come on it's a crossover i think pay this

movie you think it's a crossover so how about this can you commit to the baby boy rewatchables that's like i haven't seen it in a long time it's like that you know what i'm saying i saw it in the theater though you saw baby boy in the yes theater I didn't have a lot going on in the 90s.

I fuck with Baby Boy.

I love Baby Boy.

When you think of the singleton movies that you would have saw in the theaters i wouldn't have thought well poetic justice was first day because of tupac oh yeah first yeah and also it was so close to boys in the hood like that was like an event but john singleton because we did higher learning um john singleton you saw that in the theater too yeah it was appointment viewing yeah in the 90s with the movies that he made you know half-assed oh i skipped one

Romo Collinsworth or someone else for the director's commentary?

This is easy for me.

It's Quentin.

It's always Quentin for me.

Quentin narrating

some of these scenes, dude.

Tom Tarantino?

Yeah.

He's a real-life freak.

It's always Quentin.

So, somebody on the internet like spliced up his commentary on King of New York that he did with you guys on the rewatchables.

And I just watched that like two days ago.

Yeah.

And when this guy gets going on a movie, on an actor, on a director, it's riveting.

Yeah.

I mean, to me, it's all it's Collinsworth for me.

Yeah.

Because I need the play by play of the actual scene.

I was thinking Romo.

Okay.

He's rubbing her shoulders, Jim.

The wine's open, Jim.

Oh!

She touches leg, Jim.

Stuff's going down.

His stick's still hard, Jim.

Yeah.

Let's go.

Half-passer and research.

The 1991 Palmire, these days.

A $600 bottle.

Wow.

Yeah.

Wow.

Industrial Light and Magic made all the VR stuff.

I don't think they brag about that in the offices.

Yeah, that's nice.

Filmed in and around Seattle.

Films Marketing touted it as the first Hollywood movie with major stars to address the topic of sexual harassment.

I'm telling you, this was a crazy time for movies where it's like, this is the first day.

That was like

the first sexual harassment movie.

Yeah, the movie where we talk about video voyeurism.

Right.

Like, there was we didn't have the internet.

So anytime Hollywood tackled a topic, it was like a big deal.

It's like, oh, we're doing this.

Yeah.

Third most rented movie of 1995.

And the number one rented movie in Baton Rouge.

Oh, I was about to say, I was, Showgirls was one of my top rented ones.

Third of 1995.

A decade later, Demi Moore was sued for sexual harassment by the caretaker of her Idaho ranch.

The case was dismissed.

Wait, what?

Yeah.

I'm just passing that along.

And then Demi Moore gave birth to her third child a month before she was cast cast and biked 28 miles every morning pre-dawn to get back in shape for the film.

Oh my God.

Kudos.

Dedication.

To her.

Yeah.

We'll take one more break.

Then we're going to do Apex Mountain.

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Apex Mountain, Michael Douglas.

No.

To me, more.

It's right around here.

It's Indecent Proposal.

It's this movie.

It's like if she's in a movie and she's on the poster, it's making $200 million.

For some reason, I can't call her Apex Mountain.

Yeah, because it's definitely not the movie that she's most associated with.

I think it's probably Indecent Proposal because that's barely a movie and somehow that movie did really well it's not ghost

yeah so the problem is we've done all these movies and we probably already litigated this yeah it might be ghost it's not it

might be when people think of demi more they don't think of disclosure so it can't be after this happened i was just trying to think of

when did she have the most power

coming out of this movie where this is when she gets the 12 million for strip tease so much money that you have

that's what i was thinking she gets the 12 million for strip team.

She sets the record for a salary after these grippers.

It might be this one.

Sexual harassment movies?

Yeah.

It's got to be.

Yeah.

Older Donald Sutherland.

He's got this and he's got Six Degrees of Separation.

Yeah.

A movie that we're going to do on the rewatchables at some point.

So I think it's right around here.

He's got the beard.

He's got that smarmy, like that weird posture.

Always in a suit, arms crossed.

When I think Donald Sutherland, because he was, I don't know why.

I think Outbreak, man.

Oh.

be compassionate, but be compassionate globally.

When he was five, I always think invasion body snatchers.

Virtual reality, no.

Actor Dennis Miller, I think, yes, because he's got this and the net.

And that, yeah.

91 Palmeyer, definitely.

The Miss Teenage New Mexico pageant.

I think this was the peak.

When was that ever mentioned?

Who even knew they had it?

Anything else?

Seattle as a setting?

You know, so singles comes out this year, too.

Singles, Singles, yeah.

Sean Kemp and GP are in place.

Ken Griffey is there.

Oh, no, I sleepless in Seattle.

Yeah, what am I talking about?

But that's this is a year before.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's this stretch.

This is Starbucks is starting.

This is Amazon is getting ready.

This is it.

This is Seattle's a cool place.

You're buying Seattle stock right here.

Right.

Cruise or Hanks?

Oh, shit.

In this movie, specifically?

Tom Cruise.

Like the aggrieved, you know, like.

I had Cruz as well.

Incredulous, just lecturing people.

Like it's, that's Cruz.

I get it.

It's just the sex part.

It probably works, but

sometimes the thing that puts me off, Cruz, it's probably Cruz, right?

Over Hanks.

But sometimes the thing that puts me off about Cruz and Hanks is that Cruz is so handsome that the guy who plays the lead here has to have some sort of everyman type of situation.

But Tom Hanks just doesn't work in the role.

So and Tom Cruise does.

That's the thing.

But, Cruz, you need a guy that's like, what did she say about him

at the beginning of the movie?

She says, You're handsome, but you're not irresistible.

And that's like the perfect guy to like to play the role.

It's just for me, I could just see Tom Cruise yelling at his wife, yelling at his bosses, yelling at his subordinates.

Yeah, he gets to overreact.

That's what he does so well.

What were Cruz's?

Did he ever?

He never had a movie like this.

Never, did he?

He never did.

That's why Chuck was the closest.

Oh, yeah, he did.

Rock thriller.

That's his rock thriller.

I just watched Chuck.

Racehorse, Rock Band, Wrestler, Fantasy Team name.

Alchemex is pretty strong for a horse.

Alchemex is strong for a rock band, too.

Alchemex sounds good.

Yeah.

Going to see Alchemex tonight.

Picket nets.

Meredith would not have made sure that the phone was hung up.

Phone's just dangling.

It's early cell phones.

People don't really know how to work them like that, Bill.

That's

the whole

one of my nitpicks is the whole

part with the, the, we got it all on tape type of situation.

I've been trying to get in touch with you.

I can't get in touch with you.

I got the whole thing on tape.

I had that as well.

Your whole career is in the balance.

I have a tape that.

I brought the tape home from work so I could listen to it a couple of times.

Here it is.

Or demi more on the.

It's like some kind of bicycle.

The stairmaster just laying out her whole plan.

And yeah, they're just literally just saying all the evil things they're doing.

So tomorrow we're going to set up Tom

and blame the product launch on him.

Yeah, by the way, just so we don't gloss over it, the dude who had the tape is a freak, right?

Yeah, he definitely masturbated it.

He masturbated the tape.

No, he said it.

Yeah.

In the movie, he goes, I have the tape and I was listening to it with my girlfriend a couple of times.

Oh, yeah.

He's a freak.

Sick.

Freaking dog.

The legal proceedings just started in 24 hours.

We had a lawyer and a judge, and we're just ready to roll.

The merger's coming.

Let's get a legal.

The movie takes place over the course of one week.

Yeah,

that's what he is up and completely adjudicated.

Lawyers, depositions, lawyers, depots, and the whole no fucking thing.

Another thing is, like, as the case is going on, they're all still in the office and they're all acting like normal.

Like, when he gets in the elevator with Demi Moore, like somebody who just accused you of sexual harassment in the workplace, you're getting in an elevator with her alone

voluntarily, like

somebody's placed on leave it's not even like he's on there first and she just big boys him and and gets on she's on there and he just goes i'm just gonna voluntarily hop in the elevator with somebody who forced me to kill great that's crazy

the settlement offer once he has the tape and it's clear that you know whatever

he gets his job back at a hundred thousand he's like fist pumping i'm like i'm going for like come on five six million this dude's give me more stock shares for the merger one million i mean one hundred thousand Like, no.

Anything else?

No.

By far, my two biggest nitpicks were the tape and how

this was

adjudicated.

Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all blackcaster untouchable.

I got to say, Presumed Innocent has proven that we can play these back.

Literally, this is a good prestige.

It says we need the presumed innocent treatment.

Yeah.

Tomorrow.

This should be season two of presumed innocent.

I would love it as a prestige show.

You could

cast too hot.

You could go a lot deeper with things.

You could play a lot.

I would love man.

Fox Bender's doing TV shows now.

I would love to see him in the lead role of this.

Uh, is this movie better

with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treyo, Sid Goldberg, Sam Jackson, JT Walsh, Nell, Byron Mayo, Harling Mays, Eva Leffer and Ramon Ramon, long legs, or Philip Baker Hall?

I guess we could have put Dylan Baker in there too.

Um,

can I give you long legs?

Oh, yeah, Go for it.

Somebody's got the tape.

You're having sex at it.

I've done long legs for Banda.

Oh, my goodness.

Just want to ask her who gets it.

Demi Moore, man.

I have Demi Moore as well.

Yeah, I had Douglas.

Okay.

Uh-oh.

I had Mike Williams.

You love every man, Mike.

You love him.

I do.

I do.

I just appreciate.

I appreciate the guy that literally gets caught with his pants down, but is still fighting tooth and nail as if like he's because if he's to be believed, he did absolutely nothing wrong.

He was the model worker.

He's always been that, and these people are out to get him.

I just love the steadfastness.

He does reconsider maybe some of his interactions with his assistant.

Yeah, he apologized.

There is an enlightened person.

Hey, sorry, I slapped you on the ass with the files there.

And the moment that he sees his assistant in there.

That's a great

oh my god, I've slapped her on her ass before.

I like the assistant.

I thought she was a good actress.

I don't know what happened to her.

I really name Jacqueline Kim.

Yeah,

I really liked her.

I don't think we can pass it up.

Probably unanswerable questions.

Did we ever figure out a really good way to do Malaysian CD-ROMs?

Or we just

it was just a mess for the whole 90s?

Yeah, I think so.

Elizabeth's son, did he become Jeff Bezos or some other 2000s billionaire?

It seems like he was right there around the boom.

You know?

Might have started something.

He had like 200 million bucks.

He's definitely living off his Apple stock after the iPhone and the iPod go crazy for sure.

Did Meredith become our vice president nominee in 2008 on either side?

Wow.

Could have been.

Did she come back and buy the company like she said she would?

Did she become a billionaire?

Did she become a billionaire?

I feel like she bounces back pretty strong.

I think she does too.

She definitely does.

She took two days to figure out what did I do wrong here?

And then solved it and then was doing great.

Yeah.

There's actually a version of this, like a sequel just around her, but it's like a sex in the city type situation on the HBO.

Suddenly, I see comes on at the beginning.

She's taking on the city.

Any other unanswerables?

No, not for me.

Best double feature choice.

I'm going with the net.

The nets are good.

Let's just go with, like, here's what we thought the internet was going to be like in 1994.

Internet movie.

You could also do any of the Everyman trilogy with Mike.

I picked Enemy of the State.

Oh, I like it.

That's another good

technology movie.

Paranoia, technology, like, you know, these

systems of power that's just going to crush crush this regular guy just trying to get through the world and through his life.

Yeah, that's what this movie kind of reminded me.

We did that one on the rewatchables a while ago, and it's so funny how it sees surveillance

where it's just like it's the late 90s, and everywhere you go, we'll be able to see what you're doing with these cameras.

And it's like, you can't even do that now.

I mean, maybe you were getting dinner at the Clippers Arena.

You know, you are.

No, but like, we'll spit like in a dressing room, and they're like, they can zoom around the store and get in there now.

As soon as you leave out of this dark, you're on camera.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, you're, you're always on camera.

And it's so funny when I'm watching all these interrogation videos.

I'm watching the cops.

He always drops that.

Like, we.

What?

We have to explain the interrogation video.

I'm like, first 48 or something?

No, no, no.

I go on YouTube and I watch interrogation.

He likes seeing suspects get interrogated.

I like to see suspects.

This is a YouTube search for bands.

So is this like, so you could be prepared if the cops ever interrogated?

No, he's you like the dynamics of the interrogation.

I just like to watch the cop use the read technique on a suspect to try to get information and i learned so much you're always on camera and your phone is telling the police and everybody else where you are at all times during the day like they know exactly where you are so but yeah but my double feature choice like i i ought to change it to the game because i hadn't thought about the game's a good one yeah

you know what i will change it to that because i just had basic instinct but that's literally basic yeah the indian red's not zawatene award for what happened the next day um i think eventually meredith becomes the center of new mexico

like 2002 range yeah

i think dan i think tom gets divorced i don't think the wife lets it go i think it starts coming up he takes the family to napa and goes on like an insane wine bender like a sideways type bender i mean and like i think tom leaves the business yeah i think tomorrow i think they relocate to ojai They, he, his wife, I don't think the wife leaves him, but I do think that she sets an ultimatum that at this point, you can't continue to be in the business like that.

You got to get out of there.

She definitely goes on a girls trip where things happen.

Yeah, of course.

There's a revenge girls trip.

She trays up to locks down.

Yeah.

What piece of memorability would you want from this movie?

There's like a Sonics thing in his office that I thought was super cool in Tom, Tom Sanders' office.

That was cool to me.

Yeah, I would want the basketball he has that makes no bouncing sound.

Yeah.

He's just throwing around the office.

There's no sound at all.

I would go with the Paul Meyer bottle if it was unopened.

Just like

movies bottle of wine.

I can't say that.

Just say you did the bra, man.

It's the ripped panties.

It's fine.

You want the panties themselves?

Yeah, you can.

Lord, have mercy.

I apologize to the audience sincerely.

That was a Larry Sanders joke way a few years later.

They were talking about Planet Hollywood.

One of the characters said, so I can have lunch next to Demi Wars Ripped Panties.

I think it was Artie.

Coach Finstock Award, best life lesson.

Don't ever assume what the internet's going to be like.

It could possibly be one.

Life lesson for me.

Dennis Miller says 10 years from now, you're going to need a forklift to get it hard on.

And I'm going to assume Michael Douglas is like 48.

He's supposed to be in this movie.

Yeah.

Probably 50.

So that means in 20 years, I'm going to need a forklift to get a hard on.

So that's the life lesson for me.

Technology has changed it, brother.

My life lesson is very simple.

Man, don't give your boss a shoulder up.

Like, there's nothing that could good.

The 7 p.m.

glass of wine.

7 p.m.

glass of wine.

It's the life lesson we knew, but somehow this movie didn't.

Who won the the movie?

I'd give me more.

For me, it's Levinson.

For me,

I just love that this guy, like nobody would try to do this nowadays in terms of

go out of your way to stake an opinion on all these weighty topics of women in the workplace and sexual harassment and technology and corporate culture and masculine.

Like, he has something to say about a bunch of weighty topics.

and like that's what i like the most about the movie now look i don't agree with you know his conclusions ultimately with everything but i like that he has the balls to do it in a way that i just don't think filmmakers would do they might stick to one thing like you know i just watched the nora and they're talking about sex work and it's like all right i'm I'm going to talk about the nature of sex work.

And, you know, it's going to be a little bit class mixed in, but we're sticking to like what it's like to be a sex worker, which is like, you know, a pretty weighty kind of thing.

This guy's like five, six different weighty topics that he's just taking his hand in and just being like, here, here's what I think.

Here's my take.

Here's my whatever.

And I thought it was a pretty entertaining movie in the process.

I got Dimmy Mar.

I got Dimmy Morgan.

I respect it.

Honora was about a sex worker who got mixed up with Russian Borat.

That's my blurb.

That's my one blurb for Honora.

I love that movie.

It's great.

I like it too.

Craig, now we're in a different studio.

We have to stare at you through a blurry window but you had never seen this movie what was your take um 10 out of 10.

love it but you know how people say 10 out of 10 no notes 10 out of 10 but a lot of notes

it's a 10 out of 10 on the entertainment scale you know this is a prop this is like a they don't make them how they used to hall of fame yeah really up there um i just think these movies are becoming like cultural case studies like kids in school should be required like if you're a sociology major you should have to watch this movie just to see like what people were thinking and stuff in the 90s yeah

also, you guys didn't bring up, uh, so this movie came out in 94.

Sam Levinson, born in 85.

Sam Levinson, the creator of Euphoria, the son of Barrett.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah, Craig.

Come on, Craig.

Sam, that

Sam probably saw like this movie 10 times when he was nine years old.

Kind of, yeah, you know, probably was pretty formative.

Yeah, explains a lot for old Sam.

Great point, Craig.

That's a fantastic point.

I like your cultural artifact.

artifact.

So true.

This is the thing with these movies that I think we try to make this point over and over again.

This is just what people thought, enacted, and thought was a good idea in 1994.

And it's really interesting to watch it in that context.

The same thing for Philadelphia.

The way they talk about homosexuality and AIDS in the movie, it's pretty accurate.

It seems crazy now, but that was what 1993 was like.

If Philadelphia came out now, I think it would be criticized for not being sensitive enough when the entire point of the movie

was to have a conversation about sensitivity and compassion.

And you can only do that with the truth of the drama that was in the movie.

And Denzel would make them change the character a little bit.

I don't think he would.

I don't think he would.

See, I think.

Somebody would.

The filmmaker would be like, we can't have me this homophobia.

A different actor might.

But the conflict that's in Denzel in that movie, especially in that one scene, that's the point of the movie.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Anything else, Craig?

What did Liz think?

We had a go.

It was a blast.

We like stopped it like four different times to figure out if the plot made any sense.

The answer is that how it would end.

It's just...

You know what the problem?

Like the movie's really fun and everything, but there's a couple plot things that are just so stupid.

Like they build up certain things and then there's no payoff.

Like the voicemail was like this big thing.

Like Liz clocked in the beginning.

She's like, he didn't turn the phone off.

The voicemail is going to be a thing.

And then it's like building up and building up.

And then Michael Douglas just like calls his friend.

He's like, oh, yeah, I just typed in the wrong number.

Do you have the voicemail?

And he's like, yep.

And then there was another one where it's like, oh, how are they going to take down Demi Moore?

How are they going to take down Meredith?

And then he just calls his buddy in some other city.

And he's like, hey, you got the files of that shows Meredith doesn't know what she's doing.

And he's like, yep.

He's like, right here.

Hold on.

It's like, they got some.

I'll fax them to you right now.

With no drop-off.

Yeah.

I also want to say that these are the coolest offices I've ever seen in a movie by far.

Yeah, for sure.

The aesthetic in this movie is, especially now where everyone's in like 90s nostalgia mode, like the big, clunky, cluttered office, like the big physical computers.

It's like perfect.

Sounds like Disclosure was a big hit at the Craig house.

I love it.

They stopped it four or five times.

That's Craig Williams.

Yeah, I didn't want to

find that work for me.

All right.

That's it for Disclosure.

I think we made it.

So much fun.

Don't forget, for the people listening, you can go to the Den of Thieves, the den of the re-den of thieves taping on December 16th.

Thanks to Craig Horbeck for producing.

Thanks to Jack Sanders as well.

And thank you, fellas.

This is my pleasure.

Excellent.

This episode is brought to you by Warner Brothers Pictures.

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My guy, Paul Thomas Anderson, teaming up with Leo DiCaprio for the first time ever.

Pretty exciting.

They almost teamed together in Boogie Dance, actually, alongside award-winning actors like Sean Penn, Tiana Taylor, and Benicio Del Toro in this hilarious action-packed adventure following Bob Ferguson, an ex-revolutionary, on a mission to find his missing daughter and overcome the consequences of his past.

One battle after another.

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