Fulfillment and Achievement: A Deep Dive of "Atlas Shrugged" with Josh Forti (3 of 5)

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Speaker 3 After the very first time I read Atlas Shrugged.

Speaker 3 This was a fascinating, like five or six hour-long interview. Hopefully, you had a chance to listen to hour number one, which we posted two weeks ago, and then hour number two last week.

Speaker 3 And now we are on hour number three this week.

Speaker 3 I hope you guys are enjoying this interview, and it's getting you guys excited about all the things related to you as a prime mover, as a as a producer, and someone who's trying to change the world.

Speaker 3 So, that said, I'm gonna jump into part three of the episode on Alice Rugged.

Speaker 3 In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars in my own products and services online.

Speaker 3 This show is gonna show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to the Marketing Secrets podcast.

Speaker 3 Okay, I want to circle back to one quick thing, and then we can move on.

Speaker 3 So, the question I was trying to ask was, like when you were like, hey, there's the technician, or there's the plumber, there's this, or there's that, or then there's the person that comes in and makes it rain, right?

Speaker 3 Like, there's only a few people in an organization that like make it rain, right?

Speaker 3 Like, you in Cliff Lones, like, you make it rain, like, you're the one that like brings it in, and I'm sure there's other people, like, to a certain extent, but like, you are that person, and there's probably what you probably have, what, 100, 200 people on the support team that don't actually make the company any money, but they do play a critical role in the sense that, like, the company couldn't function without them, right?

Speaker 3 And so, like, to those people there,

Speaker 3 how does somebody who like two part question? One, can you live your best life in a position like that?

Speaker 3 Like, can you be most alive and fulfilled and like, like, live a great life doing something average like that? And number two, like, does that person need to go learn how to make it rain?

Speaker 3 Like, does everybody need to be an entrepreneur?

Speaker 3 Does everybody need to be like, you are so fast and you got this whole community of funnel hackers and like, we're going to go out and change the world.

Speaker 3 And like, we don't get, we think differently, we do it differently. We all this stuff.
Like, does, would it be good if the whole world thought that way?

Speaker 3 Or like, do we need people that don't think that way? Um, There was a time in my life where I thought everyone should think that way. I don't think so now.

Speaker 3 I think some people, like, I have family members who love what they do and they're obsessed with the art. Like, the art is what they do.

Speaker 3 Like, some people, like, some, like, I've had good masseuses and bad masusus. Some masuses, like, that is their art.

Speaker 3 You can tell you're just like, oh, my gosh, like, they're the best at their, their craft. Um, and I think that's okay.
I think what if it brings fulfillment, like that's more important.

Speaker 3 um but if people aren't fulfilled that's that's the second question is like well if you're not fulfilled then why like you know and um i think one of the most powerful things myron golden um taught us funnel acting live and he taught it to comic a couple times uh he has thing called the four levels of value and it's so fascinating because that's such a good yeah so good the first level of value for those who haven't heard this before is uh and it talks about and he i'm gonna not do it justice like myron's a man one of the greatest speakers of all time oh you too

Speaker 3 i don't even know if it's on you i have it's on my anyway yes but so bottom level is is people work with their hands right and this is the hardest work like someone building a building the person's like actually building the building or typing you know doing support or like whatever the thing is like they're working with their hands like that's the lowest available value right like the most you make when you're when you're working hands is maybe 50 60 70 000 you're like but you're tapped out you can't get higher than that now excuse me if that's your calling and you're good at it you love it like go all in like become the best in the world that thing and that's totally cool but you're not but like you cap out on salary you can't make more money at a certain point because that's what the value of of the that tier value the next year value then if you move up one tier is management right someone who can manage all of the workers right and there's people who like one of the big mistakes we made inside click ClickFones, we took the people inside of our team who were the best workers, and we upgraded them into management.

Speaker 3 And they were horrible managers, amazing workers, moving to the management. They're managing people, they weren't managers.
Like, this is a different mindset.

Speaker 3 And so it's like, they can go learn that, but

Speaker 3 that's not where they were gifted, right? And a lot of times it was, it was irreparable. We couldn't move them back down because in their mind, like, oh, I'm a manager now.

Speaker 3 It's like, no, I think, you know, one of the things we learned is like, someone can work that and be a worker and make more money than the manager, right?

Speaker 3 Because just because sometimes their skill set, like programmers and developers, developers like getting an amazing programmer to to code something is a lot of times worth more than the manager who's managing that person but but in most businesses most organizations management is next tier right because you make more money as a manager because you manage a lot of excuse me a lot of workers as opposed to one then you go up the next tier value and it's like the communicators right people learn how to talk and to sell like that's next thing you make more selling and you managing and you typically make more managing than you actually doing the thing and not everyone's going to be great salespeople like i think it's a it's a teachable skill i think you may have seen my early videos like

Speaker 3 anyone thinks this is a gift that I was born with. It is not.
It is something that has been developed. Guys, you should go look at Russell's old videos.
They are so amazing. They are the worst ever.

Speaker 3 Yeah, when I was your age, I was, I would not have been able to do this. Like, it's, it's crazy.
Um, and so that tier is, is the communicators and the top tier are the visionaries, like imagining.

Speaker 3 Like you're using your brain to make money. So you're using your brain, your mouth, your management skills, or your hands.
Like those are the four tiers of value.

Speaker 3 And so I think wherever you fit in there, it's like, that's cool. Like we need people all the tiers, but like I had a podcast about this other day.

Speaker 3 I'm like, um, if you're gonna be whatever you're gonna be at, like, don't just be a person doing it, become the best of the world.

Speaker 3 Um, like, we were in uh Oak Smokatony's event, and uh, we were in a hotel, and it was kind of weird because there's a sposs, right?

Speaker 3 All excited to get massages, but it's also COVID right now, so like the masseus has a mask on, they have plastic gloves. It was like, it was weird.
And I got my very first massage.

Speaker 3 We sent they uh, they paid for some massage, my two massages, so I was like, it'll be fun. First massage was so bad.
I was like, I never want to get massage again ever.

Speaker 3 Like, it was just, it was so bad. And I'm sitting there on the table, it was only an hour-long massage.

Speaker 3 by the time it's done i was like i want to get out of here like this is just weird and horrible i did not enjoy it and i'm a massage person yeah i love massage yeah and i was like the point where i'd never want to massage again but they'd already booked us for the next day for the second one and i was annoyed i went to the second one and same thing she's got plastic gloves on like we have to do and the mask and it's kind of like oh i don't even want to be here and then she puts your hands on me and it's just like

Speaker 3 it was art like it was different and i was like both of them are doing the same job right but somebody's like i want to be the best in the world versus like i'm just doing the thing you see that in every every area of life you look at the chiropractors there's chiropractors that are good and there's ones that are great doctors like dentists business like like i'm i'm more of like wherever you're at like like don't just be mediocre like become the best in the world there that's more important to me than you know if you're gonna be a plumber be the plumber who you walk in like we've had our house so many plumbers come in we had some to come and they fix the leak and then something else breaks and they're another guy to come in and they check everything making sure it's perfect it's like i would rather like i want that person i want the artist i want the person who like this is their art not just like

Speaker 3 best job i could find like yeah. Anyway.
All right. So now I'm about to ask you a question.
And I understand this is totally like just like your opinion on it.

Speaker 3 There's nothing, but maybe you have something to base it on. So like

Speaker 3 the person that is at those lower levels of value, right?

Speaker 3 The average worker that's out there that's doing their thing, especially in today's super soft victim mentality America that wants to vote for free stuff makes me so mad.

Speaker 3 Anyway, so like the average person like that's out there looks up at people that make a lot of money and like kind of the general consensus, I think, or the way that America slash the world is going is like rich people are bad, right?

Speaker 3 Like,

Speaker 3 you're so greedy, man. Like, you got all this money and like, you're not giving any to me.
And like, you get to go sit in your massive house and your cars and you can do whatever you want.

Speaker 3 And so like, even if they are doing what they are called to do, like, they'll look up at to a millionaire or a billionaire, like someone who has like all this stuff and they'll, like, they'll look at it as bad, like, that shouldn't happen.

Speaker 3 Like, how do you create a society and this is why like i know this is big picture like type stuff but like how do you create a society that allows people to like be okay with being the best version of themselves like where they're at without like looking at you and being like you're bad like you know what i mean yeah well it's not gonna happen in our lifetime it's not gonna happen my belief till christ comes again and we when he does it'll be a perfect you know things will be great but until then it's not gonna happen because humans are humans right um you mean you mean donald trump's not gonna just fix everything oh if he does that'd be amazing but

Speaker 3 i'm not holding my breath um

Speaker 3 but i i would say more so just for anyone who feels that way like i i would look at that more and i did a podcast about this like um

Speaker 3 if you're not someone who celebrates other people's successes um everybody i don't care if you hate the person if you're a big fan or you're not a big fan like if you don't celebrate their success um

Speaker 3 then you are going to struggle to ever be successful because you're going to be so scared of other people not celebrating your success. Like, I remember,

Speaker 3 I am not a huge Gary Vee fan. You know this.
Yeah. Um,

Speaker 3 for reasons I'll talk about in my next book. But so when I, when I tweet this out on Twitter, Gary, when you're following me, shout out.

Speaker 3 But, um, by the way, the Patriots won the Super Bowl and the Jets. Just throw that out there.
All right, continue.

Speaker 3 I just guaranteed you never come on my.

Speaker 3 I do like Gary. I just, we had anyway, I think, but whatever.
He doesn't remember it, I'm sure.

Speaker 3 But anyway, he got the shoe deal with. whatever

Speaker 3 yeah yeah adidas and he's going to market and like for a half a second i was like ah that sucks And then I was like, he freaking, he's in our industry. And he got a shoe deal.

Speaker 3 And I ran to my computer.

Speaker 3 The case was, I bought the shoes. I got them.
And I was like, I did a podcast like celebrating the fact that someone in our community got a shoe deal and all these things.

Speaker 3 And a bunch of people that I know are like, I thought, like, you're not a big Gary fan. I'm like, I'm not, but like, that's a huge success.
Like, we should celebrate success.

Speaker 3 Because if you don't, then what's going to automatically happen in your head, if you're not celebrating people's successes, you have the subconscious fear that someone's not going to do yours.

Speaker 3 And so you're going to stifle yourself from being successful.

Speaker 3 So I try, when anybody around me is having success, whether I like them or I don't like them, like I always am like, oh my gosh, I'm going to try to celebrate it.

Speaker 3 And then by doing that, like it, it, it changes your brain to the spot where you're okay having success because you're assuming everyone's going to celebrate like you and they're not going to.

Speaker 3 But it, I don't know, it's different. Subconsciously, you are not celebrating other people's successes.
It'll stifle you from ever having your own. And so I think that's a big part of it.

Speaker 3 Like, if that's where you're at right now, like it's something you got to change. And we start making that little shift and start celebrating people's successes above you.

Speaker 3 It's freeing. It's amazing.
Then it's all of a sudden you're like unlocking yourself. Like, I can succeed because they did.
And people are going to celebrate me.

Speaker 3 And like, it just, it shifts those like psychological things that you do. And it changed everything.
It's weird. Do you think

Speaker 3 you're not political? Like hardly at all? Like, do you even pay attention?

Speaker 3 No. No, not too much.
Like it.

Speaker 3 I was like, I was like, hey, so those who read the book, Hank Reardon, he like, and this is part of of his demise is he never he doesn't pay any attention at all anything so as i'm reading the book i'm like hank reardon doesn't pay attention i don't pay attention like

Speaker 3 like um and real quick we do shout out for these shirts again you guys see them um by the way how many guys what would like one of these shirts oh let's make them comment for this first okay guys how many of you want a shirt yes or no comment yes or no down below so this is the red and steel one this is the who is john gall one pretty dope I'm not gonna lie, though, like that one's pretty dope, but this one wins for one reason.

Speaker 3 The quote is cool.

Speaker 3 We could put that quote on this one too and make it silver. Ooh, ooh.
Okay, this is my selfish pitch. Okay, yeah.
Ken Russell. Hey, guys, we're all doing a pitch real quick.

Speaker 3 You guys can't sell something? Can he sell something to you? Keep in mind, I make no money off this. I don't even know what he's doing.
I don't know if I make anybody. Okay.

Speaker 3 No, we have a little fun site we created just because they'd be fun called t-shirtsmackdown.com, where we have two shirts and then people vote with their wallets on which shirt they want better.

Speaker 3 So if you guys want these shirts, you can actually buy whichever one is your favorite.

Speaker 3 or both you like them both you gotta go to t-shirtsmackdown.com and they're up there right now and guess who's the models on t-shirt SmackDown? I assume are we the models?

Speaker 3 And you go to teachersmackdown.com. Yeah, you can get

Speaker 3 one or two. Oh my gosh, look at that.

Speaker 3 Your team's amazing, dude. They put it together like that fast.
Okay, let's get out of the book here for a second.

Speaker 3 The audible door, like the password that was audible. When I read that, I was like,

Speaker 3 yes,

Speaker 3 that's like a brilliant mind at work, right? It's like, you have to say,

Speaker 3 and the part that I thought was interesting was it wasn't just the words.

Speaker 3 He's like, and it's programmed to where it will not open unless like the person that is saying it like is actually like saying it with conviction or like something to that effect.

Speaker 3 Like they actually have to like mean it.

Speaker 3 You can't just be like,

Speaker 3 okay, come on in. Like now you guys want to read the book so bad.

Speaker 3 Okay. All right.

Speaker 3 We'll come back to the t-shirt SmackDown. Comment down below.
Let us know. And let us know, guys.
Let us know down in the comments.

Speaker 3 And if you're listening on audio, you can go leave a rating and review and leave us in the comments.

Speaker 3 But if you're listening to YouTube, Facebook, wherever, comment down below where the best part or your favorite part of the conversation was so far. I think that'd be super cool.

Speaker 3 Okay, let's get out of the book for a second here. I actually have a lot of questions about the book, but I want to know, like, what was like your favorite scene?

Speaker 3 Oh, oh, so many good scenes. Uh, my favorite scene in the book.
So it's kind of like the crescendo of the whole book. Because the whole book is asking who's John Gall, who's John Gall.
Okay, hold on.

Speaker 3 Sorry.

Speaker 3 Dave is sitting here in the background. Have you read the book, Dave? Okay, so I'm just making sure.

Speaker 3 You're making sure that you're like, you're not just sitting over here like, oh, that guy's freaking out. And Dave's like, I have to read it too.

Speaker 3 I was like, I need to talk to somebody, Dave, go read this. I'll see you in six months.
Favorite part of the book. Okay, my favorite part of the book.

Speaker 3 So the whole book's linked to who's John Gall, who's John Gall. We kind kind of introduced him a little bit when Dagni meets him and then she leaves and goes back to the real world.

Speaker 3 And all of a sudden, there's this part where the looters and the government are trying to like do this broadcast. And all of a sudden,

Speaker 3 the broadcast is interrupted. And they're trying to figure out how to fix it.
But all the people who would fix it have been taken.

Speaker 3 Because all the great minds of society are gone. They're gone.
And all of a sudden, like over the loudspeaker comes John Galt. And he starts this speech.

Speaker 3 And the speech, I think, is 80 pages in the book. It's like

Speaker 3 it's four hours on the audiobook. Four hours.
This is why you don't watch the movie, by the way, way, because it's less than 30 seconds in the movie. Like, how do you take out four hours?

Speaker 3 Like, it's such a good. Anyway, he gets on this microphone, broadcasting the entire world.
Nobody can cut him off. And he gives this speech about big everything, the whole building.

Speaker 3 I'm just like,

Speaker 3 the setup was so crazy. All of a sudden it happens.
I was like, oh. And anyway, that was my.
And he ends with this. Yeah.
And he goes, and I'll say it like, what last time?

Speaker 3 I pledge my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine. Oh, anyway, anyway, that was my favorite part.

Speaker 3 The 80-page, four-hour-long version of it. Okay, oh, yeah, so good.
Okay, I like that.

Speaker 3 My favorite part of the book, I read this, and I was like, so I like, I like play my life and like act like I'm in a movie, right? Sometimes I'm like, do this. So, do you remember at the wedding?

Speaker 3 Oh, Francisco speech. Dude, oh, yes, okay.

Speaker 3 It might have been better.

Speaker 3 I get done with that chapter, and I'm like, I promised Leah I would be done after this chapter. And like, it ends, and I'm like,

Speaker 3 I know,

Speaker 3 I remember.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I do think. So the John Galt had a better buildup.
And then, like,

Speaker 3 I didn't know it was coming. Like, there's what he's saying, everything.
And then all of a sudden it starts happening. I was like, out of freaking nowhere.
Yeah. So Francone, just Francisco.

Speaker 3 Francisco, yeah.

Speaker 3 Francisco.

Speaker 3 He gives a speech that was like, yeah, I wasn't expecting it. So I think it was less buildup, but it was amazing.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 The John Galt buildup was like. This is like, I was waiting to see that movie because I was like, the amazing then is like, come on, like, come on.
Anyway, yeah, those are the two best parts. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 That way, like, I'm reading this and I'm like, that was when, like, it was like that, that moment. I was like, okay, she, she finally like made it all like, and it was relatively early on in the book.

Speaker 3 I was like, oh, if the book follows anything like this, this is going to be such a good book, right? Because, like, he gets done with that. And, like, you're just.

Speaker 3 It's like something you'd want to watch out in real life. And you're like, somebody thought this up and like wrote it down.
You're just like, yeah. That's so good.
Yeah. Yeah.
That is so good.

Speaker 3 That was, that was hands down the favorite. I want to read the book again.
I wish it wasn't 1200 pages because like, I want to go back and experience it, but it's so big.

Speaker 3 Okay, have you read the Cliff Notes version of the book? No, okay, so

Speaker 3 yeah, so there is, there's, I think, there's the Cliff Notes, like the one that you buy. I think it's like a four-hour audiobook.

Speaker 3 I haven't listened to that one, but if you just go to like cliffnotes.com, like read the book, you can basically, you can basically get a summary of the whole book in like 30 to 45 minutes. I read it.

Speaker 3 It's still worth reading, though, you guys. Oh, oh, 100%.
100%.

Speaker 3 But, and actually, that's the reason I bring it up because, like, I know it's 1,200 pages, but like, you don't, like, if you just read the cliffs, you're like, oh, okay, like cool storyline, like you miss the effect, like the, the, oof of it all.

Speaker 3 One of the things that I thought was fascinating, and this is because like I'm working on my next book, which is like, I'm, it's not a how-to book. So I'm learning how to write differently.

Speaker 3 So I've been reading a lot. You want to tell us all about it?

Speaker 3 I'm really proud. I'm excited for it.
But one thing was interesting, like, if you look at how Ayn Rand did the dialogue in the book, She did all the dialogue with just one person speaking.

Speaker 3 So it's fascinating. Every time you notice that, like when

Speaker 3 her partner was in the cafeteria with some guy we didn't know, you only hear his words. You never hear the other side.
Oh, that's so true.

Speaker 3 Most of her dialogues was just you heard the one person talking and you could get the gist of the conversation by reading one side, but they'd never had the other side.

Speaker 3 And I'd never seen someone write that way before.

Speaker 3 And there's a lot of cool things like that where it's just like people, and like, again, I've written three books now, but like I wrote books with Google Docs with editors and people.

Speaker 3 Like imagine writing a book in the 50s with a typewriter. I think how much pre-forethought has to go to something like this.
That's wild.

Speaker 3 It is insane to think that. Yeah.
So like I have so much respect for people who wrote then and especially I'm trying to learn how to write as a story as opposed to how to.

Speaker 3 And it's like the art of it is, is just, it's fascinating. And anyway,

Speaker 3 as a book, it's just like, it's worth reading just like to see how she wrote is fascinating as well.

Speaker 3 What was your like biggest, actually, I want to go down that rabbit hole a little bit further. So like

Speaker 3 writing and is your new, like, is your next book fiction or not? No, it's, it's just the next book is, I bought bootstrap.com. So next book's bootstrapped and it's the ClickFunnel story.

Speaker 3 It's not like the how-to, it's telling the story

Speaker 3 as the story, which is gonna be cool.

Speaker 3 It's gonna be so like first thing we're doing is all the core people who have been part of the ClickFunnel story are flying them out and interviewing them for, I've been mapping out the entire timeline of events as close as I can remember and interview them all the pieces from their point of view, trying to get that from like 50 different people.

Speaker 3 And then we take all that stuff, sync the timelines up, and write the book as a story.

Speaker 3 Anyway, so it's a different writing style I've never done before. That's interesting.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, Dave wants to tell you the cool part. So I'm also like, I've been re-geeking out on like here with a thousand faces and the hero's two journeys and like all that stuff.
I want to make sure.

Speaker 3 Well, someday I want to try to sell the Hollywood or something. So who knows? I don't have the end of the story yet, but like, but so I'm just which is, by the way, super fascinating because like

Speaker 3 the concept of like going for a target and then like going towards it, like you don't know the end. And now you're just like, yeah, so cool.

Speaker 3 And so it's cool, but I was like, Brussels is so much fun to watch.

Speaker 3 So like, I'm writing, I didn't, so I've been, I've been geeking out on the hero's two journey.

Speaker 3 So I'm like, I'm trying to sync the timeline of the ClickFunnel startup story to the timeline of the hero with a thousand faces, like to all the core, the core things to see if I can get it to fit inside that framework, which I think we'll be able to do.

Speaker 3 That way, yeah, it's going to be amazing. And then what I'm trying to do in my new office is I'm going to build the room where it's like a timeline.
So the entire room wraps in a huge

Speaker 3 chalkboard with like a timeline that goes around has like the dates and the hero's journey stuff, right?

Speaker 3 And then like, you know, you know, and then like writing in each, each core thing thing on the on the wall and then you know like they do in the spy movies where you have like the string that goes up you have the pieces the paper yeah so i like as i'm writing the book on it i have the whole thing timed out like in a square room and so you see it all and they can see all the pieces and how they all fit together and then that'll when the book's done then that room that'll be the wallpaper on the room oh my gosh okay all right so here's how here's a here's a great idea so you like you do that up until like a certain point like this is modern day and then there's like an end of the wall and then like from that point to there that's when you're writing when you get to the end of the wall you have to sell everything and go into hiding and become John Gold.

Speaker 3 Like, that book's done. I mean, there we go.

Speaker 3 That's fascinating. So, when I get to write to write a story, that's way different.
It's not like

Speaker 3 all my other books are how-to books. So, it's like they're written differently.
And so, it's just been fun. Which, by the way, is why I was like,

Speaker 3 when I first got into entrepreneurship, I was like, I don't know why anybody would write a book that's not like that. Like, I'm like, what? Why would anybody write a book like this? This is so lame.

Speaker 3 And now I'm like reading it and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is so cool. Yeah, I have a ton of respect.
Like the books I'm reading now, like I just fished Shoe Dog, which is like the story of

Speaker 3 so good.

Speaker 3 American Kingpin, which is like the story of the Silk Road and the Dark Web. My favorite stories I've ever read.
I read it twice already. And the writer is probably the best writers I've ever written.

Speaker 3 I read it and I was so depressed. I was like, I'll never write as good as him.
I tried to hire him to write my book for me, but he's too busy.

Speaker 3 I will give you a blank check. Just write this book.
You're so much better than I could ever dream of. So I had to go learn how to do it.

Speaker 3 What was your most, like, what was the most fascinating thing about Atlas Drug to you? Like, of any, like, the way it was written or the the concepts or the characters, like anything.

Speaker 3 What was the overall, like, the most fascinating part for you?

Speaker 3 Man, character development is so cool.

Speaker 3 I think,

Speaker 3 I think the coolest thing for me

Speaker 3 was like

Speaker 3 each,

Speaker 3 and I would love to see some diagrams because I don't know what, but like, each of the characters each played.

Speaker 3 Like they're a character, but they played a role that is like this magnified society as like a group almost right like yeah essentially

Speaker 3 and dagny and then like um james tagger

Speaker 3 tagger's wife yeah and like all the people they were like they were humans but they were a personification of like a segment of of society which is really cool and so it's like seeing that where you're just like you're getting this like this micro version this macro problem

Speaker 3 um that was cool because like i never again i don't study politics i don't i'm not deep into it i don't know all these things and like you hear this character you hear the story and all of a sudden you're like oh my gosh that represents this group of people that i and so for me it was cool because i was able to understand um things at a different level and i i'm not the best at this but i always try to like put myself in other people's shoes i try to understand like like that's why i'm not super political because it gets so divisive and i'm like i see good on both sides like i i understand like i can love people on both sides of it i think it was so cool for me because i was able to like you see the pros and the cons of each thing, right?

Speaker 3 You see the positive negatives of each belief pattern. Like

Speaker 3 as much as I related to him, it's like there's the good and evil, right? Yeah, there's good and like all of them have that.

Speaker 3 And and so like it was just cool because it gave me this perspective i didn't know of so many different segments of society it made this really cool tapestry and picture for me huh all right so now the polar opposite like what do you think the book lacked in or like

Speaker 3 like didn't communicate well or like left out

Speaker 3 um i think it's something to talk about today like i do feel like um most of the producers in the book

Speaker 3 they didn't have the other side of it right like the social stuff is important Like helping other people is important.

Speaker 3 And I get why she didn't, like I said, the Phil Donahue interview, she's like, people should be social. They shouldn't do it with the gun.
But she never showed that.

Speaker 3 She didn't show Hank Reardon going and like, oh, this is the cause I care about. Like, let me go and at all.
You know, in any part.

Speaker 3 And I think that stuff's important. Like, that's why we talk about the political on the left side.
Like, like, they're.

Speaker 3 What they're trying to do is good. It's right.
Like, it's, it's from God. Like, it's, there's so good things, right?

Speaker 3 But there's like, but there's ways that people twist it and all sorts of stuff like that.

Speaker 3 And I wish they would have showed more of that because i felt like the characters were one-sided where it's just like you know it's like the people the looters are the people that are producers and i feel like there's more blend i think for all of us we have blends of those things yeah and they did a good job of dissecting so you can see yeah you know but i think we all have all those things like i want to give i want to serve i want to do things but i also want to produce i want to do both those things right like how do like what's the world look like where we do both of those things and i don't know how to you know and in my in my in my little universe that i've created for myself and my family like i'm trying to i'm trying to produce then we've got oh you are we've got these these things.

Speaker 3 Like, I'm trying to contribute and try to do my version of what I think is right. Right.
Like, all we can do is like what we think is right in our own little world that we create.

Speaker 3 And so, this is my world I've created. I'm trying my best to do it.

Speaker 3 And, um, and I wish that they would have showed some outside because I think, I think that that was the part I felt that the characters were missing is just that part of it.

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Speaker 3 So what's interesting in Christ like charity loves stuff. Okay, well, and I'm so glad you brought this up.
What I think is interesting is

Speaker 3 my takeaway from, or like the thing that I felt like the book was lacking the most is

Speaker 3 nobody had kids. Oh, I didn't think about that.
Like, think about this. Like,

Speaker 3 none of them, like, because one of my questions to you was going to be like, how has, how is having kids? And I kind of asked you earlier, like, kind of changed the perspective.

Speaker 3 But I'm like, interesting. Nobody had kids.
So, like, and

Speaker 3 I don't have kids. I'm not married.
I don't have kids. I'm getting, I'm getting married.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 By the way, shout out to my beautiful fiancé. All right.
But, um,

Speaker 3 like, for me, like, I'm so focused right now. So I grew up in a big family, right? Eight kids.
I'm the oldest living. I'd one older brother passed away, but like six younger siblings.

Speaker 3 And so like, for me, I'm like, man, like my whole diet, my whole life changes once there's kids in it. And like, I know that, even though I haven't experienced it because I've seen it, right?

Speaker 3 And so for me, and like Leah and I have talked about this, it's like the 20s are for us, the 30s are for kids, right?

Speaker 3 Like, and so I'm like, I gotta make as much money as I possibly can before them because I even told Colette this: I said, if there's if there was one thing that I would sacrifice my career for in order to be able to do, it'd be like to homeschool my kids.

Speaker 3 Like, I can't fathom sending my kids to public school, right? That's just me because I grew up homeschooled or whatnot. But, like,

Speaker 3 as I was going through the book, I'm like, I can relate to all these people, but like, they're leaving out like this key component.

Speaker 3 Like, imagine being Hank Riordan and like living like he did with your five kids.

Speaker 3 I'm five. Yeah, yeah, okay.
I was going to say, four. I was like, oh my gosh.
So like, think about that. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 And so I feel like one of the, because there's a lot of people I know that have read Atlas Charlie, they're like, heck yeah, man, like it's the greatest book ever, like for-profit, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, yeah, but like, imagine living your life that way with a family. Yeah.
Like, imagine living your life like that, like with

Speaker 3 kids and responsibilities, like people that you actually like love. How? Think about this because

Speaker 3 like I think of our timeline, it comes back. We talk about with greed and contribution, you know, or growth and contribution, right? So most of us, we get born.

Speaker 3 Well, all of us, us we get born right only way to get here we all get we all born right and from like when you're born until you're whatever for me i got married at 22 i was 22 right and so it's like um the first 21 years it's all about you right like it's selfish it's growth it's like whatever it's you you right and everyone's very inward focused and then all of a sudden you meet this beautiful person and you fall in love like this is amazing and also what happens is it shifts from you you to like us and like you're giving taking giving and it's cool because like all seen all your focus isn't on you it's on somebody else and but they're focused on you too and it's like this this amazing thing we're like i'm giving but i'm also getting it's like this amazing thing right it's like this transition that's easing you into kids because then kids come out and it's it flips now where it's like the opposite where like you're just serving 100 especially at the very beginning with the kids like there's nothing like i was joking with my kids about this um one night when they're like why are you guys so mean i'm like do you realize like we get no value from this we don't get paid a penny from this like there's nothing in parenting like we kill ourselves we serve we don't sleep, we work, we pay money, we get, and that's not true, we there's value in it, but

Speaker 3 I was like, I'm just sitting there, imagine Russell telling us kids, we get no value, you do not pay us, but you know, I'm like, I'm like, I'm killing myself, you're gonna get a tax break, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's just funny because I'm like, I'm like, you know, and so, but especially in the first board, like, they're cute, and you get lots, but they're in the selfish phase now, where you're giving 100% and they're not giving back, other than like they giggle and cute, and you're like, oh, it's so cute, but for the most part, it's like, so you have this like training, this time where you're selfish, and it's like, oh, I'm serving someone else, but they're serving me amazing.

Speaker 3 And all of a sudden it's like 100% service there. And I think that that's a good point.
Like Hank Reer had only done this thing.

Speaker 3 And then, you know, he never had a chance to like 100% serve somebody else and see what that's like. Because the value you get as a parent is

Speaker 3 when you serve 100% of the kids and you see like who they become. And, you know, and that's the value.
But it doesn't come from like.

Speaker 3 from like the the quick pro quo that you normally get with like i'm gonna buy this thing or pay for this thing or whatever right it's like i'm gonna serve and serve and serve and then eventually hopefully someday they turn to be cool yeah well because i well and that's a super interesting point.

Speaker 3 And maybe that's maybe that's why she left the part out of it because she was like, none of these people would ever have kids. She didn't have kids.
So that's a big, you know,

Speaker 3 right? She's never seen that.

Speaker 3 At least now that I'm where I'm pretty sure. That's crazy.

Speaker 3 Because, well, like, I was, you know, going through it, and I'm like, this book, I think, would mean so much different. Or, like, so, like, when I first read it,

Speaker 3 like I said, whenever I first learned about this back in high school, right? Like, I read it and I was like, I hated reading. I publicly declared, and this is actually funny.

Speaker 3 Like, when I graduated high school, I bought myself a pickup truck. I stood on top of the pickup truck, and I publicly declared to the world that I would never read another book ever again in life.

Speaker 3 I hated reading, right?

Speaker 3 And so that's funny because now I'm reading 1200 page books and I've read every one of those books back there.

Speaker 3 Like.

Speaker 3 It didn't really take on the same effect as like now, like being an entrepreneur, like being someone that, like, at one point, I had five employees. I'm like 26 years old.

Speaker 3 And so, like, now I'm reading it and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if I read it with kids, I feel like that would even give you a completely different perspective on it.

Speaker 3 How has, how has having kids changed your because you were an entrepreneur, like basically from one, right? Like, you never really had a job, right?

Speaker 3 I've served tables and I never had a job for more than three months. So, okay, so yeah, so you're, you're a failure in the normal society, right?

Speaker 3 You can't hold a job, you're, you know, yeah, you get fired forever, but like, how has changed, or how's having kids

Speaker 3 and like having to balance, because man, like, dude, you're running a,

Speaker 3 ClickFunnels is a billion dollar company, right? We're allowed to say that, like, that's the thing, right? Like, roughly, like, I'm not off on that. All right.

Speaker 3 The value is based on what people pay for. So hopefully someone pays for it.
We're going to say a billion-dollar company. So, like, you're running this billion-dollar company.

Speaker 3 You've made hundreds of millions of dollars. You've been paid a million dollars an hour from the stage before, by the way, big props, congratulations.

Speaker 3 So, like,

Speaker 3 how has balancing work now with that, like with the kids, like growing up? I feel like now they're at, because your oldest is what, too old, 14, almost 15, right?

Speaker 3 So, like how has that changed the way that you view your work like do you struggle with that like the balance yeah especially now with like covid stuff happening kids being homeschooled where now it's like even before it was easiest separation like they're going to school i'm going here separation is easy now it's harder because it's like they're still home and it's like oh should i be there like that you know it's it's definitely it's definitely tough um

Speaker 3 man it's it's interesting i have so many entrepreneur friends i always tease them because it's like who don't have any kids and and they're doing amazing things.

Speaker 3 I'm like, yeah, but I'm doing this stuff and I got five kids and a beautiful wife and I got colleagues in my church. And there's like so many things.
I think it's, it's just, I think

Speaker 3 I hired a trainer. Dave knows a safe trainer.

Speaker 3 I remember when he started working this, he said, the biggest thing you notice when you start working the amazing, you'll be shocked what your body could actually endure.

Speaker 3 I think that most people don't understand what they could actually do. Like, how do you run a company this big and have a family and have a successful marriage and have these, like, you can do it.

Speaker 3 Like, most people don't because they sedate and like, I don't watch four hours of football at night because I have all these other things, right?

Speaker 3 Like, like, I like, I don't know, it's just like if you take away the excuse of sedation, like you can produce so much more than I think people are able to understand. I don't know.
So

Speaker 3 it's interesting. And then

Speaker 3 it's been, it's been such a weird thing too with kids because I think when you first start having kids, you assume they're all going to be like you, right?

Speaker 3 Like, oh, they're all going to be entrepreneurs and so much fun. And then, you know, I had twins.
It was crazy. The twins are our first two became our twins.
And now they're, you know, 14, almost 15.

Speaker 3 It's crazy because I assume like they'd all be the same, same as me or at least same together.

Speaker 3 And they they are so polar opposites right like yeah I didn't even know I just found out today that they were twins yeah like I had no clue college like yeah they're both turning 15 I'm like wait what yeah

Speaker 3 look at each other act each other and like one's more entrepreneurial one's more like if you look at like disc profile we have a DI with an SC like oh my god you're extrovert like like all the things are different and um and I always thought you know like my kids are gonna be entrepreneurs like me and now it's like no I don't think they have to be this kind of goes back to talk about earlier like you know with my kids I'm like now like what do you want to do and and you know I think one of my i think some of my kids are very entrepreneurial a lot of them aren't i think some of my kids are super smart hard workers we're going to be amazing at the roles they play in in something they're going to be a huge part of like changing somebody's world that's not going to be the front person of it right and so it's just it's been interesting watching that and um fulfilling and and hard and it's all the things wrapped into one um

Speaker 3 you know it's I don't know, it's an interesting experience. You're going to love it.
You should start having kids right away. Yeah, that's not going to happen.

Speaker 3 Okay, but why? But you know, you should take some time. Okay.
But

Speaker 3 how long did you go? How long did you wait? Uh, two,

Speaker 3 let's see, see, we had our 18-year anniversary. This kid's turned 15, so almost three years, yeah.
Three years before.

Speaker 3 We tried earlier, but we couldn't, we had fertility drugs, stuff like that, and everything. But yeah, so about two, two years we started training.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I can't. Kids scare me, dude.
Man, I'll tell you what. So, like, it's interesting because, like, I grew up with six younger siblings.

Speaker 3 So, like, I was definitely old enough to remember like the whole diaper phase and like, you know, and I obviously wasn't the parent with it but like and

Speaker 3 the the church that i went to like the eight was like average to small amount of kids like a lot of them were like 13 kids 12 kids 14 kids whatever like i think the smallest in our whole church was four like the like and they were the weird ones right you only had four kids right and so it's like everywhere we went that's just like what it was and so for me like i had that rebellion phase if you will which i don't know rebellion phase but like where i was like, I don't want any of this.

Speaker 3 Like, why would you, like, they're expensive and, and they, like, suck all the time. You know, I can't go do this.
I'm like, I want to be so filthy rich before I go, like, having kids.

Speaker 3 And so, and I like taught Sunday school and like was very involved in like the church building up and things like that.

Speaker 3 And so, for me, it was like, I want to go build my business, like, building off, like doing that is like more fun.

Speaker 3 The interesting thing about kids, and I told my parents this, I don't remember what it was, but like, my parents are not like, my parents aren't like super like wealthy or like successful when it comes to business or anything like that.

Speaker 3 But like, I look at my parents as like some of the most successful people that i've ever met in my life because

Speaker 3 my mom's favorite but there's like little things that my mom like tells me over and over and over again and she's like

Speaker 3 one of her favorite lines is the only thing i need to know in life is like i just need to know that my children walk in truth right and i'm like my mom particularly and my dad too like both of them but like i related with my mom because she keeps saying it is like

Speaker 3 my mom's definition of success and like achievement was do my children walk in truth do my children like that is what was success to her and like she's like you can take you know like yeah yeah money would have been great like all these different things but like that was like kind of this this pinnacle of success for her is like do my kids like walk in truth and so as i have gone through my own journey of faith which has been i mean

Speaker 3 it has been rough at times right like i've watched her like struggle with it and like freak out because she's like i just want i'm like but it's not like that's not her journey to bear, but like it is like at the same time.

Speaker 3 And so it's always been interesting.

Speaker 3 Like kids are like this thing where I feel like once I have them, obviously I'm there for the rest of my life but like i feel like there's this distress or like this new there's this new piece of my life that's unlocked that like i've never explored before i i don't know anything about it right and i'm like afraid isn't the right word but i'm like pushing that off that is as long as i possibly can because once that's open then i never get to close it again and like that mystery is it's almost like fun to like look forward to but at the same time be like i get to focus over here you know what i mean

Speaker 3 essentially i remember um

Speaker 3 thinking about this a lot especially for a few years i was like this is so much harder than i thought it was going to be Like, flat out.

Speaker 3 I was just like, I thought it was going to be, you know, whatever, way harder. But I also remember feeling and saying out loud, like, this is so much cooler than I ever dreamt it was going to be.

Speaker 3 So it was like this double-edged sword. I was like, man, I didn't realize how tired and like worn out and like all these things.
But then like,

Speaker 3 so much better than I thought. And it's funny because I know a lot of friends who are like, well, when do we make money and I'll have kids? I'm like, I don't think, I don't know, it's different.

Speaker 3 Like, I would just have kids. Like, you can do both.
It's not, it's not impossible, especially in the first born. They sit there and they're like, you know, and

Speaker 3 I would throw, I've spent a year or two and just nod. Right, right, right.
But like, I wouldn't wait till like, oh, I need a million bucks in the bank.

Speaker 3 I get people all the time like, I have, I know people who are broke. They have eight kids.
Like, just, they're not that expensive, right? Like, Cheerios are not that expensive.

Speaker 3 Like, if you need to, you know, like,

Speaker 3 it's just, it's just, it's just being willing to be there and be loving and being, um, being present for as much as you can.

Speaker 3 Another thing that's been interesting, especially now that our kids are turning to teenagers, it's like so much harder. Like, that's even harder.
Just like. Really?

Speaker 3 That's harder than when they're young. Oh, for sure.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Dave's over here just laughing.

Speaker 3 Oh, gosh. What am I in for, Dave? Oh, no.

Speaker 3 Yeah. The young heart is like, I am tired.
I like, that's, that's the hard part when you're young. When they're older, it's just like, if I mess these kids up, like, I just want them to be successful.

Speaker 3 Like, that's the bigger fear. And it was interesting.
I remember

Speaker 3 the little thing that. gave me some grace like um tom billie you i i heard a

Speaker 3 instagram post he had of him talking about how

Speaker 3 um being a parent. And it was so funny because he's like, who here is scared that you were going to F up your kids? That was how he would have said it.
Right. Yeah.
You're obviously messed up.

Speaker 3 Who's the mess of your kids? And everyone's hand's like, yeah, I'm scared. And he's like, guess what? Yeah, I make sure I get this right.
He's like, my parents messed me up.

Speaker 3 Your parents are like, you're going to mess your kids up. But guess what? We turn out okay in the end.
Like, just be okay with the fact that you're going to mess your kids up because you are.

Speaker 3 And I remember I was like, okay.

Speaker 3 Like everyone messed up their kids. Like, that's part of it.
Like, but that's part of the whole journey. And that's the journey.
And you know, that's like, that's part of it.

Speaker 3 And I think it gave me some grace of just like, look, I'm going to do my best. I'm probably going to mess them up.
But at the same time, like, you have to have faith.

Speaker 3 Like, they're going to do their thing. And, and they're going to hopefully make good decisions.
And if not, that's why we have God. That's why we have repentance away.

Speaker 3 All these things, you know, and just and kind of leave it to

Speaker 3 him and,

Speaker 3 you know, do your best.