Greed, Growth, and Giving Back: A Deep Dive of “Atlas Shrugged” with Josh Forti (1 of 5)

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Speaker 3 Hey, what's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back

Speaker 3 So think back to the middle of the pandemic. All sorts of things were happening.
We had a lot more free time.

Speaker 3 And I remember it was the very first time I had a chance to actually read/slash listen to the book Atlas Rugged. And afterwards, I got so excited.

Speaker 3 If you were following me at the point, you know, I got really excited. And

Speaker 3 Josh Forty got excited, he messaged me, so he actually flew out. We did, I think it was like a five-hour long interview on Atlas Rugg.
It was really fun.

Speaker 3 And so I just recently reread the book and just got back top of mind, back excited. I went back and started listening to this interview again just to kind of remember what we talked about then.

Speaker 3 And some of my thoughts and beliefs had tweaked or changed a little bit from the first time, but it was so fun. And anyway, so many cool things came from this conversation.

Speaker 3 So for the next couple weeks, we're going to play some of the clips from this interview with Josh Forty and me talking about Atlas Rugged. I hope it's something you guys enjoy and you love.

Speaker 3 If nothing else, it'll get your mind spinning, especially as we're moving towards this election sequence and cycle and stuff.

Speaker 3 Number one, but number two, as entrepreneurs, this is a book that's got a really powerful message for producers, for prime movers, for people who are trying to change the world.

Speaker 3 And so maybe it'll inspire some of you guys to actually go and read the book. So with that said, I hope you guys enjoy this first episode from our Atlas Rug series.

Speaker 5 In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars in my own products and services online.

Speaker 5 This show is going to show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast.

Speaker 4 We are live. What's up, everybody? Oh, my word.
With the incredibly, I don't know if long waited, it hasn't really been that long since we planned it. It was two months ago.

Speaker 4 So much expected podcast with Mr. Russell Brunson himself.
How are you doing, dude? I'm doing amazing, man. Thanks for flying all the way to Boise just for.
This conversation. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 4 Dude, this is probably the conversation I'm looking forward to most, certainly in my life thus far when it comes to business and business and philosophy and everything like that.

Speaker 4 Well, you're funny, your wife said, oh, thanks so much for coming out. I was like, yeah, it's certainly, yeah, because it's inconvenient to me to fly all the way out here.

Speaker 4 I will say, this is my first ever in-person interview like this. Oh, really? Yeah.
Look at it. We got the microphone set up.
I know. We have...
He's a professional. I've never done this.

Speaker 4 We have literally, we have a soundboard down here. We got Russell's mic.
Can you guys hear us all right?

Speaker 4 By the way, guys, for all of you listening on audio, we apologize because we're going to ask for some comments in the Facebook feed here because we got everybody down here.

Speaker 4 By the way, you can see all the comments down here. What's up, everyone? All right, guys.
If you are live, comment down below. Let us know where you're tuning in from.

Speaker 4 Let us know if you know Russell or if you know me or if you know both of us or what you're both looking forward to. And Russell, I'm going to be honest with you.

Speaker 4 We're just going to be like super chill act. We have, guys, we have a live audience back here.
We got Dave. Dave's over there.
We got Jake and Nick.

Speaker 4 Where'd Jake go?

Speaker 4 Jake's working. Oh, there we go.
Jake's working late over there. Jake, by the way, designed these amazing shirts for us.
Yeah, check this out. This is my Reardon Steel shirt.

Speaker 4 This is like, who is John Galt's shirt? It is great. Okay, but I feel like Russell back to back, so that's all reached as it says.

Speaker 4 I stand by, I started my life with a single absolute that the world was made, was mine to shape in the image of my highest values and never to be given to a lesser standard, no matter how long or hard the struggle.

Speaker 4 So you guys like these shirts, these are custom-made for tonight. And you guys may have a chance to get one of these, but not yet.
Or yet. No, not yet.
Not yet.

Speaker 4 The ability if you guys.

Speaker 4 Oh, man. Oh, man.
Anyway, it's going to be fun. But these are custom.
We literally made these today because we're like, we need some sweet shirts

Speaker 4 for the show. So.
Oh, Caleb Wolf says he got your text you send out text everybody

Speaker 4 dude russell's on top of that i sent out a mini chat russell text all right guys um let's lay some ground rules here so the quick backstory behind uh this and it's gonna be weird i gotta look at the camera here uh quick backstory behind this is i make a post on facebook about what probably three months ago now or so three months ago and i go uh we need some epic people to interview for the podcast who do you know tag them all down below and shout out georgie Georgie comments and goes, I coached Russell Brunson.

Speaker 4 You should totally interview me.

Speaker 4 And I was like you gotta be you gotta be pretty gutsy to like tag russell in your comment and tell him you coached him um but uh then russell comments back george is a is a olympic wrestler he uh was on the bulgarian olympic team he wrestled the boys to stay with me he's the man so yeah so he uh he got or i comment back i go you coached russell and then russell goes well yeah he coached me he's awesome you should totally interview him and so i said yeah georgie of course you can come on we'll do an interview but russell we got an open invitation to you if you want to come back on And then you're like, sure, if we can talk about Gons.

Speaker 4 Or no, you didn't say sure. You said, can we do it about Atlas Shrugged? Yes.
Yeah. Because I get interviewed a lot about business stuff.
And like, pull the microphone just slightly.

Speaker 4 I don't do a lot of interviews because I feel like I've said what I want to say. But I had just finished literally probably the fattest book in the history of books called Atlas Shrugged.

Speaker 4 And I was geeking out on it. And I want to talk about it.
I didn't have a way or someone to geek out with other than some of my friends here.

Speaker 4 And I was like, don't talk about Atlas Shrugged and I'm in. And then you start freaking out.
Well, the funny thing was, is I go,

Speaker 4 something to the effect of like, you want to talk about the fall of capitalism because of a boycott, because of a brilliant person and why socialism sucks? Yes, absolutely. I would love to do that.

Speaker 4 To which you don't give me a yes or no answer. You reply back and go, ha ha.
Oh, man, that'd be fun. I'm like, talk about an open loop, man.
Come on.

Speaker 4 So anyway, I immediately message Russell and I'm like, you better not be, you better not be joking because it's like, that would just be rude. And he goes, no, I'm totally in.

Speaker 4 So about two months go by. You had a bunch of stuff.
You had some fun stuff during that time.

Speaker 4 Tony Robbins? Yeah, Tony, the man.

Speaker 4 and yeah it's been it's been chaos the last couple months not gonna lie and we got as we got closer and closer to election i'm like this is an interesting conversation post election but i think it's more interesting before election and so like was it two days ago three days ago you're like i will fight a boy seat yeah record this what day do you have open i'm like only wednesday night and now it was yeah it was uh friday afternoon um i've like we were rocking back and forth you're like dude we gotta get this done before the election i'm like huh before the election oh my word i said all right sounds good like what time do you have available and that's why i was like you know what i i was going to ask you creatively but i was going to ask you how about i fly out to you and you're like heck yeah so guys that's the backstory that's how we got here uh and so this is an open conversation about atlas rugged and kind of everything that that encapsulates i think we'll talk about some religion some politics kind of some both sides of the aisle there and open it up so um anything else you want to add to that um the only other thing i would add is um

Speaker 4 because uh This book, by the way, if you haven't read yet, is very polarizing. There are people on both sides of it.

Speaker 4 And I think both of of us wanted to stress ahead of time that um i do not believe in everything in this book a lot of things in this book i do believe in um and it's interesting one of the things i want to dive deeper in in this conversation i'm excited for and i told you on through voxer i was like i was like what's fascinating to me is not like this is what we should believe what was fascinating to me is as i was reading this book and we'll we'll get into the premise of the book those who haven't read it but you know the big things like producers and like and going out there and like creating stuff and doing things which is like what entrepreneurs do right and and it even gets to the part of like like greed is good like you should be greedy because it's going to create all these these amazing things, which which then does the byproducts really good.

Speaker 4 And part of me is like, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 4 And then part of me as a as a believing Christian is like, I hear this message I believe in, and I hear in my mind ringing Christ talking about faith, hope, charity, and love.

Speaker 4 And like, and I feel like there are these two polar opposite things, which, by the way, when we dive into politics a little bit, like there are two polar opposite sides, one that believes one, one believes the other.

Speaker 4 And I think that there's, there's a happy medium. And that's what I want to dive deep into is because I don't want anyone thinking like, oh, Russell and Josh just believe this or whatever.

Speaker 4 It's like, no,

Speaker 4 there's sides of of this and i empathize on both sides i want to talk about both of them because they're fascinating and i think i've uh anyway i've i've toyed like writing a book about this concept these two things anyway i think it'd just be fun to kind of first time verbally ever talk about yeah so i'm excited for it yeah and i i would just echo that as well um i think one of the things that often happens with me with my

Speaker 4 it's just so funny you who never ever talks about politics and me who doesn't know how to get on facebook without arguing about politics um colliding here but is that a lot of times i get like grouped into oh, you like this reading, therefore, you believe with like everything, like you read this book, or you like support this person, or whether it's you know, a political figure or a book or something like that.

Speaker 4 It's like by saying that you enjoy that, or that you learned a lot from it, that like all of a sudden, like, you suddenly believe everything in it, and that is not the case at all.

Speaker 4 And I've gotten a lot of criticism from people that are like, How could you possibly like Atlas Rugg? And I'm like, Well, this is the conversation that we're going to have.

Speaker 4 So, real quick, before we dive in, I'd be curious. I want to do a poll real quick.
How many of you guys have actually read the book? I'm curious to know. Yeah, hold up here.

Speaker 4 Um, there's two different versions of it, but uh, if you've read the book, just comment below. Just the number one, if you have read the book, the number two, if you have not read the book.

Speaker 4 I think that'll just kind of give us a poll. We got like two, three hundred people.
We'll count that as a reading, too. Yeah, either way.

Speaker 4 Yeah, if you like, not if you like, know the premise of the book, but like actually have read the book and like have a deep understanding of it, or not deep understanding, but understand the stories and then things like that.

Speaker 4 Because I think that'd be interesting. So, one is read.
One is read, two is not read. Oh, more ones than I thought it was going to.
Yeah, me too. Russell's book is so underrated.
We're 50-50.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah. I think we should take a poll at the end.
What's better, uh atlas drugged or dot com students

Speaker 4 that's the that's the real question we should be asking right now

Speaker 4 okay so we have a lot of people that have not read it so we'll have to go to the premise of that okay um you already can start it dude yeah we're just rock and roll with that okay um kai's we want to lay a couple ground rules okay because russell i don't know what it's like to be russell russell doesn't know what it's like to be me but like i think we both have a mutual understanding that we could very easily be taken out of context here um i think the goal And then I want you to kind of expound upon this is like, we're not trying to take a side here.

Speaker 4 We're trying to have open discussion about it. Like this could very easily turn into something that's like, why is you over Trump? Why Biden sucks? Why Biden's great? Why Trump sucks?

Speaker 4 Or, you know, something like that, or like certain religion, or we're not trying to convince you of anything, really. In fact, this is honestly more of a conversation for us.

Speaker 4 And we're like, we think it'd be cool to stream it out to a bunch of people because there's a reason for me to fly out here and do that.

Speaker 4 But the purpose of this is to have an open discussion about the book, the premise of the book, like an understanding of it. And then like, honestly, we're probably going to like.

Speaker 4 be in our own little world over here.

Speaker 4 And we want you guys to like interact and comment and like engage and like post your questions and we'll go back through through it obviously but like the purpose of this is not to try to convince anybody of anything it's simply to at least from my perspective shed a new perspective and like give the perspective of somebody who

Speaker 4 for those of you that don't know who russell is i mean the founder of a click funnel is a billion dollar company uh you know uh sas company you have 400 employees 400 employees so like from that perspective and like from my perspective like to open your eyes like a new perspective of what like what we like what we don't like and like i said more of a conversation like for us yeah i think it's good and i think um

Speaker 4 yeah like i think a big thing that we will talk about is our goal is not to convince you of anything. In fact, I think I I'm so convinced myself of both sides, right?

Speaker 4 Like I believe both these two, you know, things that seem contradictory, but I think there's a middle ground and I'm excited to explore it. So it'll be fun.
Cool.

Speaker 4 So I think we gotta talk about the premise of the book. Yeah, we gotta talk about the premise.
I might have a middle mini statue behind me that might help.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Okay, so those who have not read Atlas Regina, I didn't know what the premise was at first, but this is the story of Atlas.

Speaker 4 So you guys know Atlas was cursed to be able to have to carry the entire weight of the universe, entire weight of the world upon his shoulders for forever right and um and so this is where the premise of the book like like all of us right people who are listening this my guess is you are a producer right otherwise you probably wouldn't be listening to me or to josh like um i attract i teach i coach i help producers entrepreneurs people are trying to change the world right i'm curious how many guys have ever felt this pressure right where you feel like you literally have the entire weight of the world upon your shoulders and if you haven't like like like it's time to become a producer

Speaker 4 first off second off like i can i can empathize like i've there's so many times you can ask dave or any guys on my team there's days i come in i was like i feel like i'm gonna crack like there is so much weight to carry this around and i think i'm guessing most you have to felt that it could be with your family could be in work could be business like whatever it is but you felt the weight of the world right so this is what atlas had to to um to hold right and um and so the premise of the book atlas shrugged is what would happen if the producers the people that are carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders what happens if they were to go on strike and they were to shrug their shoulders like meh in fact should i read their title you gave me yeah so Josh as a gift today, gave me some amazing tiles.

Speaker 4 Uh, this is a quote from uh, for actually from the book, uh, Atlas Shrugged, um, talking about this.

Speaker 4 It says, If you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, if you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees buckling, his arms trembling, but still trying to hold the world aloft with the last of his strength, and the great, uh, the greater of his efforts, the heavier the world bore down on his shoulders.

Speaker 4 What would you tell him to do? To shrug. So, that's the thing.

Speaker 4 It's like, what happens to society when us, the producers, when we cannot no longer want to carry the way the world, we shrug and we walk away from it. And the book is

Speaker 4 a story about that. Like what happens when producers start disappearing and start leaving, they start going on strike.
You see society, what happens when the producers disappear?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I think that's so. It's interesting because there is no one named Atlas Shrugged in the book, and there's nobody named Ayn Rand in the book.
And so

Speaker 4 there's concepts that she's writing about outside of that. And it's this,

Speaker 4 how do you summarize a 1200 page book?

Speaker 4 It's like, all right. So basically, basically, in the book, there is a main character by the name of Dagney.
Oh, yes, oh, I say Johnny Lee, Johnny. Oh, we are a Dagney's main book.

Speaker 4 For the first, sorry, for the first two-thirds of the book, uh, the main character is uh, uh a woman by the name of Dagney, and basically, she is one of the producers of society, and um, she is not the head boss of the railroad, but she's like, basically the person that runs this railroad company.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 it is written, what, 1950 is when this was produced?

Speaker 4 So, 1950, and it's basically like this forecast into the future of a government that is basically forcing super, super strict restrictions onto private businesses and like making them do things kind of like it's a day in America, but like super, super government overreach in a lot of ways.

Speaker 4 And so

Speaker 4 Dagni is trying to keep the world afloat more or less by like getting the railroads done on time and like getting orders shipped. And I'm like super oversimplifying.

Speaker 4 But like around her, all the people that she worked with, like that owned all these other companies that like she would buy copper from or she would buy steel from or buy the railroad track from or buy the coal from like all of a sudden like all these like head people like imagine like people like Russell Brunson like all his friends like just start disappearing.

Speaker 4 Like imagine like Elon Musk and and Jeff Bezos and Russell Brunson and like all of them just like start disappearing, right? Like that's what's happening all around her.

Speaker 4 And she doesn't understand like what's happening to them because just one day it's up and it's gone. And so the premise of the

Speaker 4 first two thirds of the book is like showing this story of this producer who is living in this world of like super government tyranny, like overreach that's like super, super controlling.

Speaker 4 And she's watching all of her friends disappear. And she doesn't know why.
We say that's a pretty good explanation of it so far.

Speaker 4 And every time they disappear, like the lady behind a note or something that says, who is John Gall?

Speaker 4 That's the theme throughout the book is who is John Gall? Like, who is this John Galt person

Speaker 4 that makes all the producers disappear? And every time, and so, and Dagny has no idea who John Galt is, right?

Speaker 4 And she doesn't even know actually for a while that John Galt's actually even a real person.

Speaker 4 And so once she does find out that John Galt is probably a real person, like John Gall becomes like her sworn enemy because she like doesn't know who he is or like what he's doing.

Speaker 4 All she she knows, and all she associates with is that John Gall is taking away all these producers of society. It's making her life harder.

Speaker 4 Because, like, imagine you being an entrepreneur and like all of your entrepreneur friends that you buy stuff from and that you send all your people to your referrals and like everything you buy all your supplies from.

Speaker 4 Like, imagine they're like all just disappearing, and you think it's because of this one guy who's like taking them all away, and like, you don't know what's happening to them.

Speaker 4 Like, obviously, they become your sworn enemy. And so, if, like, for the first two-thirds-ish of the book, like, that's kind of this premise of like painting this really, really vivid story of

Speaker 4 these, the what are they called the great thinkers of society yeah the great minds of society basically like disappearing and dagny and there's a guy by the name of hank reardon i think we have one reardon still

Speaker 4 yeah so one of the like dagny and hank reardon are like kind of like the two major ones left right before the like the big plot twist happens and you're like oh and then you get introduced to john galt i want to let you explain john galt now oh man Okay, so that's the first two-thirds of the book.

Speaker 4 By the way, there's movies don't watch and it'll ruin the book. Yeah, there's movies really.
Yeah, read the book. So

Speaker 4 two-thirds of the book, she starts trying to figure out this, this mystery of who's John Galt.

Speaker 4 She ends up finding him and turns out that he has been going around and getting all these producers to go on strike, convinces them that like, look, it's not worth fighting for anymore.

Speaker 4 All your incentives are gone. Like, let's leave.
Let's go on strike. And they, and they leave.
And

Speaker 4 they, you know, John Galt's trying to get her to leave. And she's like, I can't.
I have to do everything in my power.

Speaker 4 It's the last third of the book is her, you know, leaving John Galt's presence and going back and trying to figure out how to do this thing.

Speaker 4 And she's watching just the government regulations getting harder and harder and harder and harder to the point where everyone just has to disappear and one of the things that john galt and the people say like when the lights of new york go out then we'll come back and we'll we'll we'll rebuild society from the ground up after the looters and the the people are gone and that's basically how the book ends is the lights of new york ghostly go out and and then for for a long for such a long book also it just ends you're like oh my god

Speaker 4 one more chapter come on like just ending and we're never gonna get it ah so well maybe maybe i'll write it yeah um but so like that's that's like the storyline of the book but where i think we really both want to focus here is kind of the premises uh and like the the overarching um ideas that like the book presents and um capitalism versus socialism and i think we'll talk religion and politics and kind of everything that's in that but i kind of want to if it's all right with you like i kind of want to like turn the conversation more like towards us now just kind of like start geeking out um just about that so like guys like we'll obviously go back and by the way we want like all your comments if you're actually comment below right now like where are you watching are you watching it on youtube are you watching it on Think Different Theory page?

Speaker 4 Are you watching it on Russell's page? Like, comment down below because we're taking it to multiple different locations. Um, so we have uh a bunch of different people tuning in for everything.

Speaker 4 So just comment down below, like, leave your comments, leave your questions, like, smash the like button, love button, like, share this out. Uh, and we're gonna try to turn this here.

Speaker 4 All right, Russell. What's up? Hey, man.
All right, dude, I've been wanting to, and I hate this terminology, but like, just pick somebody's brain like yours for the longest time in like this book.

Speaker 4 Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 4 So, give me, like, what do you like about the book? Like, what was your favorite thing? Yeah, well, let me tell you the backstory. So, I, um, so 2008 is when the market crashed last time, right?

Speaker 4 And I didn't realize that that year, over 500,000 copies were sold organically by people talking about it, like talking about this is everything she's prophesying is happening right now.

Speaker 4 And so, back then, I remember all my entrepreneur friends, like, you have to read this book.

Speaker 4 It was the word of mouth buzz to sell 500,000 copies of a book that's been, you know, the author died, whatever, 30 years earlier. You know, that there's not active marketing out there.

Speaker 4 It's just, it's crazy. And everyone's talking about like, what's happened in this book has happened in 2008.

Speaker 4 And it was just like, it's like prophecy now that was being fulfilled and so everyone in 2008 was telling me to read this book i remember buying it and uh i was like this is a really really big book and i kept trying to get it tried it took me a while to get into and i could never get into i read i read the first i don't know first two or 300 pages like four or five times and then finally this summer um I went on my very first trip where I didn't bring a laptop since my marriage.

Speaker 4 So my wife is very proud of me. Dang.
And so as I was leaving the office, I grabbed this book and I picked it up and I was like, I have no computer, but I got this one.

Speaker 4 And usually I bring like 20 books just because I never know what I'm going to read. I just brought one and I was like, I'm going to, I'm going to do this.
I'm going to be forced.

Speaker 4 I'm on a lake for a week and a half with my kids. And all I can do is read this book.
So I brought it, got the audio book as well. I'm, it's funny you do, I do the same way.

Speaker 4 I listen to audiobook and I read along. Um, yeah, I can listen to it way faster that way.
And, uh, and I started going through it. And it took me a little while.

Speaker 4 She does such a good job of character development at the very beginning. It took a while to get into it.
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4 It's like thing after thing after thing. It's so cool.
Oh, yeah. It got crazy.

Speaker 4 And so for me, it was interesting because I think if I would have listened to it 10 years ago or read it 10 years ago i i um had never experienced any of of the things they talk about in this book right um that now you don't have to worry about it yeah any better um i never experienced like government regulations and things like that right or just those kind of things and um as click funnels has grown from for me and todd to

Speaker 4 you know, to our first, our first member to our first thousand, 10,000, 100,000 member, you know, 400, 400, I don't know how many employees, a lot, 400 plus employees.

Speaker 4 As it's grown, it's been crazy because you would think that like all we'd be focusing on here inside of ClickFunnels is like the next feature in the app, the next thing, you know, and like there's a year where we had to spend an entire year just refactoring the software for GDPR compliance.

Speaker 4 We have regulations that come in on taxes and this, like just, it's constant.

Speaker 4 We're like most of the battles we fight at ClickFunnels right now is not about like, how do we make this thing better for the customer? It's like, how do we protect our customers from the government?

Speaker 4 Like it's crazy. And like there's so many.
regulations and things. And so like, I had been feeling this pressure.

Speaker 4 Some of you guys may have seen my interview I I did with Tony Robbins, or not interview, but uh, Tony Robbins and Invention with me last year in Fiji. Yeah, that was fascinating.

Speaker 4 Oh, I'm so glad we captured that. Like, it was

Speaker 4 a really cool moment in my life. But if you listened in there, I talked about he was like, What do you want to do? And I was like, I don't know, but I like the pressure.

Speaker 4 Like, I love the game, so I love everything I'm doing.

Speaker 4 I love the people we're serving, but like there's these other pressures that aren't the game that aren't the people that are just like, they get so heavy sometimes where it makes me want to just walk away.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 again, I didn't, I, you know, as I'm reading this book, you hadn't read that the book of this. I hadn't read it yet.

Speaker 4 And as I'm reading this, when it's like, did you like, did you know anything about like, you know, nothing. Okay.
Okay. I didn't know what Atlas Shrugg meant.
I was just like, oh, it's Atlas.

Speaker 4 I didn't know. And it was like when I read this title, like, what would you tell Atlas if this was happening to shrug? And I was like, oh, that's why they call Atlas shrugged.

Speaker 4 And then I remember feeling like, like, vividly feeling the pressure of this calling, right? And how heavy it is. And there's been so many times I wish, like.

Speaker 4 okay, sometimes it'd be so nice to walk away or to shrug or whatever.

Speaker 4 And so like, I instantly, like, when with Dagny's character, I was like, I feel it with Hank Reardon, like I have so much empathy and like understood their characters.

Speaker 4 Cause like, I feel that so many times. Like, I just feel like Hank Reard just wanted to invent his steel and put it out.
That's all he cared about. Right.
For me,

Speaker 4 you know, funnels are my art. Like, like, I can't draw, but like funnels are my, that's my art and entrepreneurship.
That's my art. And so I just want to do my art.
That's it.

Speaker 4 Like, he just wanted to create steel. And it's all these other things.
And just like, I just, I just want to do my steel. Like, how do I, you know, I just want to do my art.

Speaker 4 How do I, what do I have to deal with all this other stuff?

Speaker 4 And so as I'm reading this, like, I just had so much empathy for the characters because i felt like i was the characters even though it's weird because it's railroads and stuff like that you know and i'm internet but um i think that's why i really got into it and then i got just curious like like what happens like how does this story end because i'm in the middle of it and if you you know you depending who's listening you may or may not have felt some of these pressures um as you grow you feel them like like

Speaker 4 uh

Speaker 4 It's interesting as ClickFunnels has grown, we talked about like the

Speaker 4 pressure that I feel today would have crushed me five years ago, ago, right?

Speaker 4 And it's like you have to go through this thing where you build capacity to build handle next to that pressure and build capacity and build capacity. And nowadays, like stuff happens daily.

Speaker 4 It's just like, man, that would have destroyed me five or six years ago, you know?

Speaker 4 And so I think if you guys haven't felt that, as you grow, as you continue to try to like get your message out and try to grow your businesses, whatever, like the bigger you get, the more that pressure comes.

Speaker 4 Do you think so? With that, and I want to continue that because it's such a good conversation, but like with that.

Speaker 4 With the pressure, the things that are happening now like daily that would have like wrecked you five years ago or three years ago, like whatever it it was. Do you think it's good, though, that

Speaker 4 they did wreck you back or that they would have?

Speaker 4 Like, is it good that at the capacity that you understood that those, you took those things seriously then, or would it have been better for you to just like be in this mindset?

Speaker 4 Like, I know it's not possible, but like looking back, like if you could like snap your fingers and back then would have had the mental capacity just to ignore all those things and like go up with it, would that have been a good thing?

Speaker 4 Or like the fact that you went through all those things

Speaker 4 going through it is what makes you worthy of the things, right? Yeah, it makes you ready for otherwise.

Speaker 4 It's like lifting weights, like you try to squat squat 800 pounds, you're like, that's what it feels like, right? Your legs buckle and you die.

Speaker 4 But because you went through that things, you're able to have the capacity to hold the weight. Okay.

Speaker 4 Yeah. So anyway, so I think for me, that was the big thing is reading this.
And so I was just like, fascinating because I was like, this is kind of my story. Like, what, how does it end?

Speaker 4 How long did it take you to get through it?

Speaker 4 I said about two months. I got a lot of it done the boat and I got into biking for a little while.
So I was like, listen to

Speaker 4 biking and biking and bike. One more chapter, one more chapter.

Speaker 4 it's funny because you know one of the one of the premises and um

Speaker 4 they don't really say they don't say greed is good but there's a chapter i think it's called greed and i remember if you guys have ever seen wall street uh gordon geckler talks about greed is good and and i never understood that that premise right in the book they start talking about how how like greed is what drives this whole thing is it called greed um i'm trying to find it utopian greed yeah and then anti-greed so utopia greed and then anti-greed so what's interesting is um because we're taught all of us are taught that greed is bad right like that's just like you shouldn't be greedy like that's a i think a a principle that's instilled in most of us.

Speaker 4 But then I think about for me, when I started this business, why did I start this business? I wanted to make money. Yeah.
That's greed, right?

Speaker 4 You think about any of us, like we go through a phase in all of our lives that greed is the driving factor, right?

Speaker 4 When I wanted to become a good wrestler, I wanted to become like, I want, I wanted to become a good wrestler. It was greedy.

Speaker 4 I went and got coaches and spent all my time to be, and I became, I was through a very selfish time in my life. Not that it's bad, but it's a very greedy time, right?

Speaker 4 Kids, when they're first born, like, I love my kids they are so not in a bad way but they're greedy it's about them right right and um it's this growth phase where growth you have to be greedy during the growth phase right you're trying to learn you're being you're sucking things in you're learning and you're not you're not contributing it you're just learning you're growing and um

Speaker 4 and it was interesting because as i'm going through this i'm like the greed is what got me into business right and it's what got these things started and then the byproduct of that is jobs were created and things like all the byproduct of it is like i think in the book how it justifies like like hank reardon going after he wanted to build it still make a bunch of money created tens of thousands of jobs and changed the world and changed all these things.

Speaker 4 And so the premise in the book is that greed is this driving force that gets you, gets you moving. And it is, like, any aspect of your life from sports to education to business to everything.

Speaker 4 Like, it starts with greed. Now, we'll go deeper in this.
I don't want to ever think that I'm just into this further.

Speaker 4 There's a transition point. We'll talk about it in a minute, but there's a transition point from greed to, from growth to contribution that happens.

Speaker 4 But, but that's in the book where I start talking about that. And I remember I was on the green belt here in Boise riding my bike with James P.

Speaker 4 Freel listening to this when I'm reading that, listening to that chapter. And

Speaker 4 I was trying to think, like, is this, is this true? Like, like, did I get started because of greed? And it's like, yeah, I didn't start a business. I want to change the world.

Speaker 4 Eventually that happened, but it wasn't. Like, it was greed was this, was the driving force that moved me forward.
I think it moves all of us forward such a long time.

Speaker 4 And I was, as I was listening, as I'm riding my bike, I'm like, yes, I understand this. And then the other half of me was like, I started thinking about my spiritual upbringing, right?

Speaker 4 I'm a very Christian. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Speaker 4 And I started thinking about Christ and his teachings, which are like, honestly, the opposite of that, right? It's like really the polar opposite. Yeah.
Which it's funny whenever you say that

Speaker 4 people are like, you know, Jesus was a socialist. I hear that a lot.
I'm like, well, you need to read the Bible. But anyway, but like, I think.
He definitely is way more liberal leaning.

Speaker 4 Right. Right.

Speaker 4 And I think that that's where Republicans, conservative, like traditionally on that side of the aisle, like fiscally Republicans get into trouble is like, we're like, like, yeah, we're Christians, but like, we almost want to get rich.

Speaker 4 And like, they never talk about like all the stuff that, like, people like to use Christianity, I feel like, as a,

Speaker 4 like, when it's convenient. And they don't, we call it cafeteria Christians.
Right. They pick and choose the things off the menu they want.
Right. And then they go through and do it.

Speaker 4 So I definitely want to dive further into that, but continue down that. Continue.
Yeah. So that, that sort of this question in my head, though, of just like,

Speaker 4 So is greed bad then? Or is it good? Or like, where does it fit in the whole grand scheme of things? Because it is something that's instilled in all of us from birth, right?

Speaker 4 When you're born, you're a baby. If you didn't have greed, you would just die, right?

Speaker 4 It's me, like, I need something, I need food, I need love, I need shelter, which makes you cry, which gots, creates people coming to you.

Speaker 4 Like, it's, it's greed is this driving force that's instilled in humans from, from birth, right? Like, when we come here, greed is what, what helps us survive the first part of our life.

Speaker 4 And, um, and at first I was having this like conundrum. I'm just like, like, is this book evil? Like,

Speaker 4 myself, right? But I'm like, all the good things in my life that happened happened initially because of the seed of greed started me on motion, right? Started me in momentum.

Speaker 4 And then I started thinking, if you've read the Expert Seekers book, which if you haven't, you haven't, you must make money. Come on, come on.

Speaker 4 No, but in the beginning of Expert Seekers book, I talk about this concept as well, where

Speaker 4 as an expert, there's two phases we go through. The first is a growth phase, right? Like, I want to be an expert in whatever.
You go through and you're a consumer, right? You're consuming everything.

Speaker 4 And that's greed, right? And then there's this transition point where eventually you keep, you keep trying to grow, grow, grow, grow, right? Trying to learn everything.

Speaker 4 I'm listening to all the podcasts. I'm reading all the books.
I'm growing, growing, growing. And eventually

Speaker 4 there's this point. I remember feeling it in multiple parts of my life.
In wrestling, I felt it. In business, I felt it where you can't continue.

Speaker 4 It gets hard, like your ability to grow through consumption slows to almost a halt where you can't continue to grow.

Speaker 4 And so for me, it's like,

Speaker 4 for my, I've shared the story. I think I share it in the book with wrestling.
It was like, I was a really good wrestler. I was a high school state champ.
I was a, I took second place in the nation.

Speaker 4 I was an all-American. And my senior year, I got invited to go to a wrestling tournament.
and my wrestling, or not wrestling camp.

Speaker 4 My coach is like, hey, do you want to come coach wrestling this summer? And I was like, why would I do that? Like, what's in it for me? Before you go on here, I want to ask you something.

Speaker 4 Is this, so you're riding your, like, riding your bike, chapter, like wrestling with this whole greed thing? Is this the first time that you've thought about greed in this way?

Speaker 4 Like, is it the first time? So you like, and this is how long, this is what, six months ago? Um,

Speaker 4 not even that, probably, probably through, maybe four months ago. So you've built most of click funnels of what click funnels is today.

Speaker 4 And now this is the first time like you're really sitting down and like wrestling with this idea of like greed and is it bad? Is it good? Like what's the balance there and stuff like that? Yeah.

Speaker 4 That's fascinating. Yeah.
It never crossed my mind really.

Speaker 4 And then I started like, it became this thing where like it bothered me because I'm like, oh my gosh, like I don't want to be a greedy person. Like, you know what I mean? Right.

Speaker 4 And I'm like, I don't feel like I am, but like, but I was stuck. I couldn't figure that out.
Right.

Speaker 4 And so I already went to the wrestling story because I think I set it up.

Speaker 4 But my senior year, so again, I had been growing as a wrestler. I was going to camps.
I was getting coaching and it was greedy, right?

Speaker 4 I was sucking up everyone's brain power I could and I became a really good wrestler because of it. And then

Speaker 4 my coach asked me to go coach at a wrestling camp. So I say, yes, go to the wrestling camp.
And

Speaker 4 I remember he's like, okay, I need you to teach. My best movie is cheap.
Like, I'm really good at tilts. So the wrestlers out there, I'm really good at cheap tilts.

Speaker 4 And he's like, teach these kids how to do cheap tilt. And I was like, okay, like, so I walk out of like 30 kids.
I'm like, hey, you do this. Like, you just do it like that.

Speaker 4 And they all grab, they all look at me and they go try it. And they try to do cheap tilt and they all just fall apart.
And like, yes, dumb.

Speaker 4 It's not that hard. I'm like, get back in, come back in.
No, you did it all wrong.

Speaker 4 I show them again. Like, go do it.
They go back out. Nobody can do it.
And then all of a sudden I'm like, gosh, like they're, they're missing something. What is this? So I have them come back in.

Speaker 4 I start breaking down like, hey, for the move to work, like your hips have to be here, your legs have to be here. I start walking through all the things.

Speaker 4 And as I'm doing that, I start realizing like, oh, the reason why I'm able to do this is because of this. And I started realizing what I was doing as I was teaching people.

Speaker 4 And as I taught it to people, then. then the kids started doing it and they got better and better.
And all of a sudden I started realizing like, oh my gosh, like this move works works because of this.

Speaker 4 And now that I was aware of the like the situation, now I was able to like make these tweaks and stuff of my own.

Speaker 4 And like, I realized that by coaching other kids, I like, that was the next level growth. It was the shift from like selfish greed growth to contribution.

Speaker 4 And so after that I started coaching camps every year. And that's how I started,

Speaker 4 I went from like slowing down my progression to like, all of a sudden it sped back up again by shifting from growth to contribution. Okay.
And so I think the same thing happens in business, right?

Speaker 4 I got in business because that seat of greed is in us. It gets us moving, gets us into momentum.
And some people never get out of that.

Speaker 4 Some people live their entire lives chasing greed and they die and it's, it's a tragedy, right?

Speaker 4 But I think for most people, there's this transition point.

Speaker 4 I don't know where it happens, happens different spots for everyone, where all of a sudden you realize you make the money, you start the business and you realize how unfulfilling that is, right?

Speaker 4 You're tapping out. You're like, I'm not growing anymore.
Like, I thought I wanted money, but I don't, I want growth.

Speaker 4 Like, that's what we're here on this planet for is to get, to grow as humans, right? And you don't get that.

Speaker 4 And all of a sudden you realize the money is not fulfilling, but then you start helping, you start seeing the other people you're contributing to, how you're helping.

Speaker 4 and then it shifts to like, you know, we hear people talk about like it's an business about impact, about growth, it's about helping other people, and like that's that transition.

Speaker 4 That's charity, love, that's pure love of Christ, right? It's that transition, but greed is the seed that gets us moving, right?

Speaker 4 And so there's this, there's this like this handoff that doesn't happen all the time. And yes, are you guys cool if I get like share scripture stuff? Because like all this stuff is scriptural.

Speaker 4 Like it's not just they don't get to decide russ audience. It's my podcast.

Speaker 4 If I wrote down some scripture, like this is a scripture. So, because

Speaker 4 it illustrates this point, like, I think it's so good. Also, I just want to say, Russell boxed me, and he said that this is the first episode of a podcast that he's ever prepared for.

Speaker 4 And I just feel like when you said that, I'm like, ha,

Speaker 4 I was the first for something for Russell. Let's go.
I want to be ready.

Speaker 4 Okay, so this is the scripture. It says, for the natural man is an enemy to God and has been from the fall of Adam and will be forever and ever.
And I'm sorry there.

Speaker 4 Okay, so the natural man is an enemy of God. Why is that? We're born.
We have this greed inside of us. So the natural human is the enemy of God because we're chasing after greed, right?

Speaker 4 But God gives us that seed because it creates momentum. It creates motion.
It creates us doing something, right?

Speaker 4 And then it says in here, it says, for the natural man's enemy, God, and has been from the fall of Adam, will be forever and ever.

Speaker 4 And then this is the transition point, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit. So he'll be like, if he's greedy forever.

Speaker 4 right forever ever unless he yields to the enticings of the holy spirit and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of christ the Lord and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord sees fit to inflict upon him, even as a child does submit to his father.

Speaker 4 So growth is the seed. It's the natural man.
It's the thing we have that's it's good, right?

Speaker 4 God gives it to us because it gets us to do stuff, gets us to learn, it gets us to not die in our crib because we need love and attention and bed fed, right?

Speaker 4 It's something that gets us off our butts, off the couch. It's us being producers.
It gets us moving. And if we're not careful, though, the natural man will destroy us.

Speaker 4 Like you see so many people who have made tons of money and they destroy themselves with their lives because they don't do that second thing, which is

Speaker 4 unless he yields to the enticing of Holy Spirit. That's the thing saying, this is not about money.
This is about the impact. Look at the people you're changing.
And it shifts, right?

Speaker 4 If you make that shift, and all of a sudden now this thing you're creating is not about greed. It's like, oh my gosh.

Speaker 4 Like, like, I remember for ClickFones, like when I had that transition, it's like when I started seeing Brandon and Caitlin Poland, I started seeing the ripple effect of their business.

Speaker 4 I started seeing, like, I can name hundreds of people, like person after person after person. I was like, this isn't about money.

Speaker 4 This is about the ripple effect of what we've we've created, each person's live. And like, now that's charity, that's love.
That's like, now the mission isn't about money.

Speaker 4 Like, we don't care about the money. We keep score with money, but like, that's the mission is the people's lives and the impact.

Speaker 4 And I think that's that transition where it's like, greed is the thing that gets us moving. But if we don't have that, I think that's happened in the book.

Speaker 4 We talked about like, you said this in my house earlier, like a lot of people in the books seem like they have a miserable life. And it's like, yeah, because they never yielded.

Speaker 4 to the spirit like they never made that shift it was all greed to the point where they let everything collapse as opposed to like yeah

Speaker 4 So, one of the things about the book, and I'm

Speaker 4 sitting on the plane, like on the way over here, and I'm like, How do I articulate this? Because that's always the hardest thing. Like, you have this idea in your head, and you're like,

Speaker 4 How do I get it out and explain in a way that somebody else can be like, Yes, I understand that. But, like, most, and I'm going to go kind of political here for a second.

Speaker 4 I'm going to bring it back too specifically to the book. So, like, I am

Speaker 4 pretty vocally a conservative, right? I'm a blatant Trump supporter,

Speaker 4 very much so conservative when it comes to everything fiscal. But I call myself a libertarian because I actually think that I

Speaker 4 lean left on a lot of social issues. Like I am, I think the government should stay out of gay marriage, right?

Speaker 4 Like I should, like, there's a lot of things that like I like lean left on, but when it comes to like money and like finances and like things like that, like I lean to the right.

Speaker 4 But like the reason I lean to the right and I typically go with the right is because like I like what the left is trying to do in concept, yes, right?

Speaker 4 It's like, okay, there's a bunch of like people that are really truly in need. Like, I agree.
Like We need to help them.

Speaker 4 The problem is, is that the way they go about doing it, I like so radically disagree with. It's like against everything I stand for, right? I'm like, it's not that I disagree with what you want to do.

Speaker 4 It's that I disagree with how you want to do it. What's interesting is I feel like in this book, I feel like it's like the opposite.
I actually don't agree with why they're doing it.

Speaker 4 Like this concept of like, I mean, Hank Reardon says it like over and over again, like everything that I do is for profit. That is it.
That is, it is not for you. Even to his friends, right?

Speaker 4 Like he took a bullet for

Speaker 4 John Galt, right? Like he gets shot and like John Galt thanks him for it. He goes, you know, I only did it because it's what I wanted to do, right? Like literally like saves a guy's life.

Speaker 4 He's like, so it's like, it's all about what he wants and only for him. And that's it.
And it's like profit and money and dollars. It's not about everything that he helps.
And I'm like,

Speaker 4 I disagree with that premise. Like I don't,

Speaker 4 but the what that leads to, I actually do like. And I feel like it's flipped.
compared to like the light the world that like I'm living in now. It's like half the stuff that the Democrats or I hate to

Speaker 4 politics so bad, but like left and right. The left, yeah, the left, guys, we're gonna say left and right generalized here, all right? Oh my God.
But like generally speaking.

Speaker 4 And so when it comes to like the whole, the whole greed issue, I'm like, it's interesting to hear your perspective. Like, cause I never, even throughout the book, I'm like, greed is a bad thing.

Speaker 4 And like hearing your perspective and like, like, anyone it says, I'm like, okay, like, I understand what you're saying, but like, what, like, is it greed or is there some other driving?

Speaker 4 Like, if you, if I were to ask you a year ago, right?

Speaker 4 When were were you in like the heart of ClickFunnels? Like a year and a half ago, two years?

Speaker 4 Like, there was a time of your life with all you, I don't know, all you do is click funnels, but like, when like, that's six years of my life. But like, but you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 Like, wasn't there like a year or two period in there, like, in the growth phase where it was like 100% of everything you do is like click funnels, click funnels, click on those.

Speaker 4 It felt like you were going non-stop. It feels like you're a little bit more balanced now.
Maybe not. But like, from the outside perspective, looking at it does.

Speaker 4 Anyway, like during that time, like of growing click funnels, but like before you read that, would you have described yourself as greedy? No. What would you have described yourself as?

Speaker 4 What's that word?

Speaker 4 I don't know.

Speaker 4 uh that's a good question like i was always trying to create stuff like it's art for me right so it's like i was trying to create stuff um but i think initially i was creating it for myself as opposed to like oh my gosh i create this for myself but look what happens to

Speaker 4 the people what point was that shift for you though um

Speaker 4 i think it i mean and you can actually you can see it in my marketing by the way and by the way for those who are greedy capitalists who only care about money like it actually is a better marketing way too like my my marketing went from for all you greedy capitalists out there switch to being a contributor for money well think about like my marketing was always like here's russell here's how much money my funnel made here's how much that you know it was me talking about me all the time and i realized it's like this like who cares about me like i don't care about me like let me show you what this person that like let me show you all the results of of of the people we're serving like what's happening there which first off is a better marketing second off it's like it's that transition what transition where i was literally like everything i've accomplished is stupid like what they're doing like that's the real like what we're doing like that's the thing that's amazing right like that's the spiritual side of it that's the thing where it's like the the the thing that got you into motion now is, is doing good in the world.

Speaker 4 And like, when you start seeing that, it's like, oh my gosh, like that, that's so much more fulfilling and so much more exciting.

Speaker 4 And, you know, people ask me last six years, like, why do you keep getting up? Do you need more money? I'm like, no, like, why are you getting up?

Speaker 4 But I can tell you a hundred stories of people who literally, like, the ripple effect of like how many lives they've changed because I did my thing. Right.

Speaker 4 Like, Jamie, we uh, we made a documentary of the Tukama Club and Jamie Cross has this whole partner where she's bawling her eyes out.

Speaker 4 And she said, where would my family be if Russell wouldn't have fulfilled his God-given calling?

Speaker 4 And, like, every time I see that, I start bawling myself mic.

Speaker 4 Like, that's why I eventually started doing it, right? But when did that shift happen? I don't know. It wasn't like a day that it's happened.
It just, it just, um, the energy of it shifted, right?

Speaker 4 It was just, it was like,

Speaker 4 I don't know, it was just, it gradually kind of happened. What's that?

Speaker 4 Yeah, Dave, Dave, come on in. Dave's got Dave's here.
Dave, take the mic here. This is honestly, I think this has been one of the things.
It's been fun for me to watch Russell from the sidelines here.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I think honestly, it was your dad's 60th birthday. That's how long ago? I don't even know.

Speaker 3 Three or four years ago, probably.

Speaker 4 But it was the reflection on that. And it was the difference from having your hand raised

Speaker 4 versus because I remember you.

Speaker 4 Russell's a much better storyteller. I'll see the thought, but I'll let him finish.

Speaker 4 Thank you, Dave. Interesting.
Guys, we have a live audience here.

Speaker 4 So, yeah, my dad turns 60, and we have our little family reunion every year we do. And so it was during his birthday.

Speaker 4 And I remember my mom, my mom mom gave him 60 60 10 uh six ten dollar bills and so gave him one at a time so okay the first decade was like one to ten like tell us what you remember about that he's like i don't remember anything back then the second one he's like 10 to 20 that's when i was a wrestler like you know it was so much fun for me and then 20 to 30 it was like okay that's when like i was starting my business trying to figure things out and trying to get you know our family stable 30 to 40 like that's when my kids were wrestling and i was I was coaching them.

Speaker 4 And then 50 to 60, he kind of went through everything. And then after it was done, I asked myself, well, dad, of all the the decades, like what one was the best for you?

Speaker 4 Thinking in my world, like the best was going to be like when he was a wrestler. Because I was like, For me, the greatest part of my life was like when I was wrestling.

Speaker 4 And my dad said, The greatest decade is when I got to coach you.

Speaker 4 And I remember,

Speaker 4 yeah, I remember, I forgot, I forgot that story until Dave said that, but I remember coming back and telling Dave and other people that, like,

Speaker 4 I always thought like the best part was being the all-star.

Speaker 4 For my dad, the best part was like coaching other people and stuff. That was a good interaction there, Dave.

Speaker 4 Which was really really cool.