Greed, Growth, and Giving Back: A Deep Dive of “Atlas Shrugged” with Josh Forti (1 of 5)

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Pet injuries and additional coverage and subject to policy terms. Hey, what's up everybody? This is Russell Brunson.
Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Today, I want to share with you guys actually a really cool interview that I did back in 2020.
So think back in the middle of the pandemic, all sorts of things were happening. We had a lot more free time.
And I remember it was the very first time I had a chance to actually read slash listen to the book Atlas Shrugged. And afterwards I got so excited.
If you were following me at the point, you know, I got really excited. And Josh Forty got excited.
He messaged me. So he actually flew out and we did, I think it was like a five hour long interview on Atlas Shrugged.
It was really fun. And so I just recently reread the book and just got back top of mind, back excited.
I went back and started listening to this interview again, just to kind of remember what we talked about then. And some of my thoughts and beliefs had tweaked their chains a little bit from the first time, but it was still fun.
And anyway, so many cool things came from this conversation. So for the next couple of weeks, we're going to play some of the clips from this clips from this, uh, this interview with Josh Forty and me talking about Alice Shrugged.
Uh, I hope it's something you guys enjoy and you love. If nothing else, it would get your mind spinning, especially as we're moving towards this election sequence and cycle and stuff.
Uh, number one, but number two, uh, as entrepreneurs, this is a book that's got a really powerful message for producers, for prime movers, for people who are, uh, trying to change And so maybe it'll inspire some of you guys to actually go and read the book. So with that said, I hope you guys enjoy this first episode from our Atlas Drug series.
In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars of my own products and services online. This show is going to show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online.
My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. We are live.
What's up, everybody? Oh, my word. With the incredibly, I don't know if long waited.
It hasn't really been that long since we planned it. It's like two months ago.
So much expected podcast with Mr. Russell Brunson.
How are you doing, dude? I'm doing amazing, man. Thanks for flying all the way to Boise just for this conversation.
Yeah, absolutely. Dude, this is probably the conversation I'm looking forward to most, certainly in my life thus far, when it comes to business and philosophy and everything like that.
No pressure at all. Well, it's funny.
Your wife said, thanks so much for coming out. I was like, yeah, it's certainly, yeah, because it's inconvenienced to me to fly all the way out here.
I will say, this is my first ever in-person interview like this. Oh, really? Yeah.
Look at it. We microphone set up.
I know we have, he's a professional. I've never done this.
We have literally, we have a soundboard down here. We got Russell's mic.
Can you guys hear us? All right. By the way, guys, for all of you listening on audio, we apologize because we're going to ask for some comments in the Facebook feed here because we got everybody down here.
By the way, you can see all the comments down here. What's up everyone? All right, guys, if you are live, comment down below, let us know where you're tuning in from.
Let us know if you know Russell or if you know me or if you know both of us or what you're both looking forward to and uh russell i'm gonna be honest with you we're just gonna be like super chill out we have guys we have a live audience back here we got dave dave's over there we got jake and nick where's where jake go jake's working oh there there we go jake's working late over there by the way designed these amazing shirts for yeah check this out this is my reared and still shirt this is like Who Was John Gall's shirt. It is great.
Okay, but I feel like it's back. You're actually back to back, so I'll read it to you guys.
It says, I started my life with a single absolute, that the world was made, was mine to shape, in the image of my highest values, and never to be given to a lesser standard, no matter how long or hard the struggle. So, do you guys like these shirts? These are custom made for tonight.
And you guys may have a chance to uh get one of these but not yet or yet no not yet not yet but the ability um if you guys oh man oh man anyway it's gonna be fun but these are custom we literally made these today because we need some sweet shirts and uh um for the for the show so oh caleb wolf says he got your text you send a text to everybody do russell's on top I sent out a mini chat. Russell's on a text.
All right, guys. Let's lay some ground rules here.
So the quick backstory behind this, and it's going to be weird. You've got to look at the camera here.
Quick backstory behind this is I make a post on Facebook. What, probably three months ago now or so? Two, three months ago, and I go, we need some epic people to interview for the podcast.
Who do you know? all down below and shout out georgie georgie comments and goes uh i coached russell brunson you should totally interview me and i was like you gotta be you gotta be pretty gutsy to like tag russell in your comment and tell him you coached him um but then russell comments back george is a olympic wrestler he uh was on the bulgarian olympic team he wrestled the boys to stay with me he's the man so yeah so he uh he got all right call me back i go you coach russell and then russell goes well yeah he coached me he's awesome he's totally interviewing him and so i said yeah georgie of course you can come on we'll do an interview but russell i got an open invitation to you if you want to come back on and then then you're like sure if we can talk about guns or no you didn't say sure you said uh can we do it about atlas shrug yes yeah because i interview a lot about business stuff and like i'll pull the microphone just slightly i don't i don't do a lot of interviews because um i feel like i've said what i want to say uh but i just finished literally probably the fattest book in the history of books called atlas shrug and i was geeking out on it and um and i want to talk about it i didn't have a way or someone to geek out with other than some of my friends here and i was like go talk about the shr the shrugged I'm in. And then you start freaking out.
Well, the funny thing was, is I go, uh, something to the effect of like, you want to talk about the fall of, uh, capitalism because of a boycott because of a brilliant person and why socialism sucks. Yes, absolutely.
I would love to do that to which you don't give me a yes or no answer. You reply back and go, ha ha.
Oh man, that'm like talking about an open loop man come on so anyway um i immediately messaged russell and i'm like you better not be you better not be joking because it's like that would just be rude because no i'm totally in so about two months go by you had a bunch of stuff you had some fun stuff during that time well i was hanging out with tony robbins yeah tony the man and yeah it's been it's been chaos the last couple months. And we got, as we got closer and closer to election, I'm like, this is an interesting conversation post-election, but I think it's more interesting before election.
And so like, was it two days ago, three days ago? You're like, I will fly to Boise. Yeah.
Record this. What day do you have open? I'm like only Wednesday night.
And now it was, yeah, it was a Friday afternoon. Um, I've like, we were rocking back and forth.
You're like, dude, we gotta get this done before the election. I'm like, huh, before the election? Oh, my word.
I said, all right, sounds good. Like, what time do you have available? And that's why I was like, you know what? I was going to ask you creatively, but I'm just going to ask you.
How about I fly out to you? And you're like, heck yeah. So, guys, that's the back story.
That's how we got here. And so this is an open conversation about Atlas Shrugged and kind of everything that encapsulates.
I think we'll talk about some religion some politics kind of some both sides of the aisle there and open it up so um anything else you want to add to that um the only other thing i would add is um because uh this book by the way if you haven't read it is very polarizing there are people on both sides of it and i think both of us wanted to stress ahead of time that um i i do not in everything in this book. A lot of things in this book I do believe in.
And it's interesting. One of the things I want to dive deeper in this conversation I'm excited for.
And I told you on through Voxer, I was like, what's fascinating to me is not like this is what we should believe. What was fascinating to me is as I was reading this book, and we'll get into the premise of the book for those who haven't read it.
But, you know, the big thing is like producers and like going out there and like creating stuff and doing things, which is like what entrepreneurs do right and and it even gets to the part of like like greed is good like you should be greedy because it's going to create all these these amazing things which which then does the byproducts really good and part of me is like yes yes yes yes and then part of me as a as a believing christian is like i hear this message i believe in and i hear in my mind ringing christ talking about faith hope charity. And like, and I feel like there are these two polar opposite things, which by the way, when we dive into politics a little bit, like there are two polar opposite sides, one that believes one, one believes the other.
And I think that there's, there's a happy medium. And that's what I want to dive deep into is because I don't want anyone thinking like, oh, Russell and Josh just believe this or whatever.
It's like, no, there's, there's sides of this. And I empathize on both sides.
I want to talk about both of them because they're fascinating. And I think I've – anyway, I've toyed with writing a book about this concept, these two things.
Anyway, I think it would just be fun to kind of first-time verbally ever talk about this. So I'm excited for it.
Yeah, and I would just echo that as well. I think one of the things that often happens with me with my – it's just so funny.
You who never, ever talks about politics and me who doesn't know how to get on facebook without arguing about politics um colliding here but is that a lot of times i get like grouped into oh you like this reading therefore you believe with like everything like you read this book or you like support this person or whether it's you know a political figure or a book or something like that's like by saying that you enjoy that or that you learned a lot from it that like all of a sudden like you suddenly believe everything in it and that is not the case at all and i've gotten a lot of criticism from people that are like how could you possibly like atlas shrugged i'm like well this is the conversation that we're gonna have so real quick before we dive in i'd be curious i want to do a poll real quick how many of you guys have actually read the book i'm curious to know yeah hold it up here um there's two different versions of it but uh if you've read the book just comment below just the number one if you have read the read the book. The number two, if you have not read the book.
I think that'll just kind of give us a poll. We got like 200, 300 people.
We'll count that as reading too. Yeah.
Either way. Yeah.
If you like, not if you like know the premise of the book, but like actually have read the book and like have a deep understanding of it. Or not deep understanding.
Understand the stories. Yeah, things like that.
Because I think that'd be interesting. One is read.
One is read.

Two is not read.

More ones than I thought it was going to.

Russell's book is so underrated.

We're 50-50.

Ooh, yeah.

I think we should take a poll at the end.

What's better, Atlas Shrugged or .com secrets?

That's the real question we should be asking right now.

That would be good.

Okay.

So we have a lot of people that have not read it.

So we'll have to go into the premise of that.

Okay.

You ready to start, dude?

Yeah.

We're just rock and roll with it.

Okay.

Guys, we want to lay a couple ground rules. Okay? Because Russell, I don't know what it's like to be Russell.
Russell doesn't know what it's like to be me, but I think we both have a mutual understanding that we could very easily be taking out of context here. I think the goal, and then I want you to kind of expound upon this, is like we're not trying to take a side here.
We're trying to have open discussion about it. Like this could very easily turn into something that's like, why is he over why biden sucks why biden's great why trump sucks or you know something like that or like certain religion or we're not trying to convince you of anything really in fact this is honestly more of a conversation for us and we're like we think it'd be cool to stream it out to a bunch of people because there's a reason for me to fly out here and do that but the purpose of this is to have an open discussion about the book the premise of the book like an understanding of it and then.
And then like, honestly, we're probably going to like be in our own little world over here. And we want you guys to like interact and comment and like engage and like post your questions and we'll go back through it obviously.
But like the purpose of this is not to try to convince anybody of anything. It's simply to, at least from my perspective, shed a new perspective and like give the perspective of somebody who, for those of you that don't know who Russell is, I mean, founder of a ClickFunnels, a billion dollar company, you know, a SaaS company.
You have 400 employees? 400 employees. So like from that perspective and like from my perspective, like to open your eyes, like a new perspective of what we like, what we don't like.
And like I said, more of a conversation like for us. Yeah, I think it's good.
And I think, yeah, like I think a big thing that we will talk about is our goal is not to convince you of anything. i think i i'm still convinced myself of both sides right like i believe both these two you know things have seen contradictory but i think there's a middle ground and i'm excited to explore it so it'll be fun cool so i think we uh i think we gotta talk about the premise yeah we gotta talk about um i might have a little mini statue behind me that might help yeah okay so those who have not read alice shrugged i didn't know what the the premise was at first but but this is the story of Atlas.
So he doesn't know Atlas was cursed to be able to have to carry the entire weight of the universe, entire weight of the world upon his shoulders for forever. Right.
And, um, and so this is where the premise of the book, like, like all of us, right. People who are listening to this, my guess is you are a producer, right? Otherwise you probably wouldn't be listening to me or to Josh.
Like, um, I attract, I teach, I coach, I help producers, entrepreneurs, people are trying to change the world. Right.
I'm curious how many guys have ever felt this pressure, right? When you feel like you literally have the entire weight of the world upon your shoulders. And if you haven't like, like, like it's time to become a producer.
That's first off. Second off, like I can, I can empathize.
Like I've, there's so many times you can ask Dave or any guys on my team. There's days I come in.
I was like, I feel like I'm going to crack. Like there is so much weight to carry this around.
And I think I'm guessing most of us have felt that it could be with your family, could be in work, could be business, like whatever it is, but you felt the way of the world. Right.
So this is what Atlas had to, to, um, to hold. Right.
And, um, and so the premise of the book, Atlas shrugged is what would happen if the producers, the people that are carrying the weight of the world on on their shoulders what happens if they were to go on strike and they were to shrug their shoulders like in fact should i read the tile you gave me yeah so josh has a gift today gave me some amazing tiles uh this is a quote from uh for actually from the book uh atlas shrugged um talking about this it says if you saw atlas the giant holds the world on his shoulders if you saw that running down his chest, his knees buckling, his arms trembling, but still trying to hold the world aloft with the last of his strength and the greater of his efforts, the heavier the world bore down on his shoulders, what would you tell him to do? To shrug. That's the thing.
Like what happens to society when us, the producers, when we no longer want to carry the way of the world, we shrug and we walk away from it. And the book is a story about that.
Like what happens when the producers start disappearing and start leaving, they start going on strike. You see society, what happens when the producers disappear.
Yeah, I think that's, so it's interesting because there is no one named Atlas Shrugged in the book and there's nobody named Ayn Rand in the book. And so there's concepts that she's writing about outside of that.
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Again, that's northwestregisteredagent.com slash R-U-s-s-e-l-l so basically basically in the book there is a main character by the name of dagny oh yes oh i say the jothi lee jungle for the first sorry for the first two-thirds of the book uh the the main character is uh a woman by the name of dagny and basically she is one of the producers of society and And she is not the head boss of the railroad, but she's like basically the person that runs this railroad company. And it is written, what, 1950 is when this was produced? So 1950, and it's basically like this forecast into the future of a government that is basically forcing super, super strict restrictions onto private businesses and like making them do things kind of like today in America.
But like super, super government overreach in a lot of ways. And so Dagny is trying to keep the world afloat more or less by like getting the railroads done on time and like getting orders shipped.
And I'm like super oversimplifying, but like around her, all the people that she worked with, like that owned all these other companies that like she would buy copper from her but she would buy steel from or

buy the railroad track from or buy the coal from like all of a sudden like all these like head

people like imagine like people like Russell Brunson like all his friends like just start

disappearing like imagine like Elon Musk and and Jeff Bezos and Russell Brunson like all of them

just like start disappearing right like that's what's happening all around her and she doesn't

understand like what's happening to them because just one day it's up and it's gone and so the

premise of the like the first two-thirds of the book is like showing this story of this producer

who is living in this world of like super government, tyranny, like overreach that's like super, super controlling.

And she's watching all of her friends disappear, and she doesn't know why.

That's a pretty good explanation of it so far.

And every time they disappear, like lay behind a note or something that says, who is John Gall?? That's the theme of the book is, who is John Galt? Like, who is this John Galt person that makes all the producers disappear? And every time – and Dagny has no idea who John Galt is, right? And she doesn't even know, actually, for a while that John Galt is actually even a real person. And so once she does find out that John Galt is probably a real person, like, John Galt becomes, like, her sworn enemy because she, like, doesn like doesn't know who he is or like what he's doing.
All she knows and all she associates with is that John Galt is taking away all these producers of society. It's making her life harder because like, imagine you being an entrepreneur and like all of your entrepreneur friends that like you buy stuff from and that you send all your people to your referrals and like everything you buy all your supplies from.
Like imagine they're like all just disappearing. And you think it's because of this one guy who's like taking them all away.
And like,'t know what's happening to them like obviously they'd become your sworn enemy and so if like for the first two-thirds ish of the book like that's kind of this premise of like the painting this really really vivid story of these what do they call the great thinkers of society yeah the great minds of society basically like disappearing and dagny and there's a guy by the name of hank reardon i think reardon still yeah so one of the like dagny and hank reardon are like kind of like the two major ones left right before the like the big plot twist happens and you're like oh and then you get introduced to john galt i want to let you explain john galt now oh man okay so that's the first two-thirds of the book by the way there's movies don't watch them it'll ruin yeah. Read the book.
So two thirds, two thirds in the book, she starts trying to figure out this, this mystery of who's John Galt. She ends up finding him.
And, um, turns out that he has been going around and getting all these producers to go on strike, convinces them to like, look, it's not worth fighting for anymore. Um, all your incentives are gone.
Like, let's leave, let's go on strike. And they, and they leave.
And, um, and they, you know, John Galt's trying to get her to leave. And she she's like i can't i have to do everything in my power it's the last third of the book is her you know leaving john galt's presence and going back and trying to figure out how to do this thing and she's watching just the government regulations getting harder and harder and harder and harder to the point where everyone just has to disappear and one of the things john galt and people say like when the lights of new york go out then we'll come back and we'll we'll rebuild society from the ground up after the looters and the the people are gone and that's basically how the book ends is the lights of new york goes to go out and and then for a lot for such a long book all of a sudden just ends you're like oh my god yeah one more chapter come on like just end it and we're never gonna get it ah so well maybe maybe i'll write it yeah um but so like that's like the storyline of the book but where i think we really both want to focus here is kind of premises uh and like the the overarching um ideas that like the book presents and um capitalism versus socialism and i think we'll talk religion and politics and kind of everything that's in that but i kind of want to if it's all right with you like you, I kind of want to turn the conversation more towards us now.
Just kind of like start geeking out just about that. So, guys, we'll obviously go back.
And by the way, we want all your comments. Actually, comment below right now.
Where are you watching? Are you watching it on YouTube? Are you watching it on Think Different Theory page? Or are you watching it on Russell's page? Comment down below. Because we're going to multiple different locations.
So we have a bunch of different people tuning in for everything. So just comment down below.
Leave your comments. comments.
Leave your questions. Like, smash the like button, love button.
Like, share this out. And we're going to just kind of turn this here.
All right, Russell. What's up? Hey, man.
All right. Dude, I've been wanting to, and I hate this terminology, but, like, just pick somebody's brain like yours for the longest time in, like, this book.
Oh, my gosh. So give me, like, what do you like about the book? Like, what was your favorite thing? let me tell the back story so i um so 2008 is when the market crashed last time right and i realized that that year uh over 500 000 copies were sold organically by people talking about it like talking about this is everything she's prophesying is happening right now and so back then i remember all my entrepreneur friends like you have to read this book after you like it was the word of mouth buzz to sell 500 copies of a book.
It's been, you know, the, the author died, whatever, 30 years earlier. You know, that there's not active marketing out there.
It's just, it's crazy. And everyone's talking about like, what's happened in this book has happened in 2008.
And it was just like, it's like prophecy now that was being fulfilled. And so everyone in 2008 was telling me to read this book.
I remember buying it. And I was like, this is a really, really big book.
And I kept trying to get it tried. It took me a while to get into it.
I could never get into it. I read the first – I was like this is a really really big book and I kept trying to get it tried it took me a while to get into and I could never get into I read or the first I don't know first two or three hundred pages like four or five times and then finally this summer um I went on my very first trip where I didn't bring a laptop since my marriage so my wife is very proud of me dang and uh and so as I was leaving the office I grabbed this book and I picked it up and up, and I was like, I have no computer, but I got this one.

And usually I bring like 20 books just because I never know what I'm going to read.

I just brought one, and I was like, I'm going to do this.

I'm going to be forced.

I'm on a lake for a week and a half with my kids, and all I can do is read this book.

So I brought it.

I got the audio book as well.

It's funny.

I do the same way.

I listen to the audio book and I read along.

Yeah.

I can listen to it way faster that way.

And I started going through it.

It took me a little while.

She does such a good job of character development in the very beginning.

It took a while to get into it.

Yeah,

for sure.

It's like thing after thing after thing.

It's so cool. Oh yeah.

And it got crazy.

And so for me,

it was interesting because I think if I would have listened to it 10 years ago,

I read it 10 years ago,

I,

I had never experienced any of,

of the things they talk about in this book.

Right.

That now you don't have to worry about it. Yeah.
Better. I never experienced like government regulations and things like that, right? Or just those kind of things.
And as ClickFunnels has grown from me and Todd to our first member to our first thousand, ten thousand, hundred thousand member, you know, 400, I don't know how many employees, a lot, 400 plus employees employees um as it's grown it's been crazy because you would think that like all we'd be focusing on here inside clickfunnels is like the next feature in the app the next thing you know and like there's a year where we have spent an entire year just refactoring the software for gdpr compliance um we have regulations that come in on on taxes and this like just it's constant we're like most of the battles we fight clickfunnels right now it's about like, how do we make this thing better for the customers? Like, how do we protect our customers from the government? Like, it's crazy. And like, there's so many regulations and things.
And so like, I've been feeling this pressure. Um, some of you guys may have seen my, uh, interview I did with Tony Robbins or not interview, but, uh, Tony Robbins did an intervention with me last year in Fiji.
Yeah, that was fascinating. Oh, I'm so glad we captured that.
Like it was, uh, a really cool moment in my life. But if you listen in there, I talked about he was like, what do you want to do? And I was like, I don't know.
But I like the pressure. Like, I love the game.
So I love everything I'm doing. I love the people we're serving.
But like, there's these other pressures that aren't the game that aren't the people that are just like, they get so heavy sometimes where it makes me want to just walk away. And again, I didn't, you know, as I'm reading this book, You hadn't read the book at this time.
I hadn't read it yet. As I'm reading this, it's like.
Did you know anything about, like, you know nothing? Okay, okay. I didn't know what Alice Sharg meant.
I was just like, oh, it's Alice. I didn't know that.
And it was like, when I read this title, like, what would you tell Atlas if this was happening to Shrug? And I was like, oh, that's why they called it Atlas Shrug. And then I remember feeling like, like vividly feeling the pressure of this calling.
Right. And how heavy it is.
And there's been so many times I wish like, okay, sometimes it'd be so nice to walk away or to shrug or whatever. And so like, I instantly, like when, with Dagny's character, I was like, I feel it with Hank Reardon.
Like I, I had so much empathy and like understood their characters. Cause I was like, I feel that so many times.
Right. I just felt like Hank Reardon just wanted to invent his steel and put it out that's all he cared about right for me you know funnels are my art like like i can't draw but like funnels are my that's my art and entrepreneurship that's my art and so i just want to do my art that's it like i he's want to create steel and it's all these other things and it's like i just i just want to do my steel like how do i you know i just want to do my art how do i want to deal with all this other stuff and um and so as i'm reading this like i just had so much empathy for the characters because i felt

like i was the characters even though it's weird because it's railroads and stuff like that right you know and i'm internet but um i think that's why i really got into it and then i got just curious like like what happens like how does this story end because i'm in the middle of it and if you you know you depending who's listening you may or may not have felt some of these pressures as you grow, you fill them.

Like,

like,

uh,

is this,

is this,

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is this, of it and if you you know you depending who's listening you may or may not have felt some of these pressures um as you grow you feel them like like uh it's interesting as click phones we talked about like like the the the pressure that that i feel today would have crushed me five years ago right and it's like you have to go through this thing we build capacity to handle next set of pressure and build capacity and build capacity and nowadays like stuff happens daily that's just like man that, man, that would have destroyed me five or six years ago, you know? And so I think if you guys haven't felt that as you grow, as you continue to try to like get your message out and try to grow your businesses or whatever, like the bigger you get, the more that pressure comes. Do you think so with that? And I want to continue that because it's such a good conversation, but like with that, with the pressure, the things that are happening now, like daily, that would have like wrecked you five years ago or three years ago, like whatever it was.
Do you think it's good though, that, that they did wreck you back or that, that they would have, like, is it good that at the capacity that you understood that those, you took those things seriously then, or would it have been better for you to just like be in this mindset? Like, I know it's not possible, but like looking back, like if you could like snap your fingers and back then would have had the mental capacity to ignore all those things and like go up with that a good thing or like the fact that

you went through all those things it's does that help going through it is what makes you worthy of

the things right it makes you ready for otherwise it's like lifting weights like you try to squat

800 pounds you're like that's what it feels like right your legs buckle and you die but

because you went through that things you're able to have the capacity to to hold the weight okay

um yeah so anyways i think for me that was the big thing is reading this and so i was just like fascinating so i was like this is kind of my story like what how does it end how long did it take you through it um um i said about two months i got a lot of it down the boat and i got into biking for a little while so i was like listen to i mean biking biking like one more chapter one more chapter because of it um it's funny because you know one of the one of the premises and um they don't really say they don't say greed is good but there's a chapter i think it's called greed and i remember if he has ever seen wall street uh gordon geckler talks about greed is good and and i never understood that that premise right in the book they start talking about how how like greed is what drives this whole thing is it called greed um i'm trying to find it utopia of greed yeah and then anti-greed so utopia of greed and then anti-greed so what's interesting is um because we're taught all of us are taught that greed is bad right like that's just like you shouldn't be greedy like that's a i think a principle that's instilled in most of us but then i think about for me when i started this business why did i start this business i want to make money's greed. Right.
You think about any of us, like we go through a phase in all of our lives that the greed is the driving factor. Right.
When I wanted to become a good wrestler, I wanted to become like, I want, I want to become a good wrestler. It's greedy.
I went and got coaches and spent all my time to be, and I, I became, I was in a very selfish time in my life. Not as bad, but it's a very greedy time.
Right. Um, kids they're first born, like I love my kids.
They are so, they're not in a bad way, but they're greedy. It's about them, right? Right.
And it's this growth phase where growth, you have to be greedy. You're in the growth phase, right? You're trying to learn.
You're being, you're sucking things and you're learning and you're not contributing it. You're just learning, you're growing.
And it was interesting because as I'm going through this, I'm like, the greed is what got me into business. Right.
And it's what got these things started. And then the by-product of that is jobs were created and things like all the by-product of it is like, I think in the book, how it justifies like, like Frank Greer and going after he wanted to build a steel, make a bunch of money, created tens of thousands of jobs and changed the world and changed all these things.
And so the premise of the book is that greed is this driving force that gets you, gets you moving. And it is like, if you think about any aspect of your life from sports to education, to business, to everything, I get starts with greed.
Now we'll go deeper in this. I don't want to ever think that I'm just into this further transition point.
We'll talk about that in a minute, but there's a transition point from greed, from growth to contribution that happens. But, but that's in the book where I start talking about that.
And, um, I remember I was on the green belt here in boise riding my bike with james p for listening to this when i'm reading that listening to that chapter and um and i was trying to think like is this is this true like like did i get started because of greed and it's like yeah i didn't start a business i want to change the world eventually that happened but it wasn't like it was greed was this was the driving force that that moved me forward i think it moves all of us us forward this long time. And I was, as I was listening, as I'm riding my bike, I'm like, yes, I understand this.
And then the other half of me was like, I started thinking about my spiritual upbringing, right? I'm a Christian. I'm a member of the church of Jesus Christ, Latter-day Saints.
And I, and I started thinking about Christ and his teachings, which are like, honestly, the opposite of that, right? It's the polar opposite yeah which is it's funny when whenever you say that um people are like you know jesus is a socialist i hear that a lot i'm like you need to read the bible but um anyway but like i think he definitely is way more liberal leaning right right and i think that that's where republicans conservative like traditionally on that side of the aisle like fiscally republicans uh into trouble is like we're like, yeah, we're Christians, but like we want to get rich. And like they never talk about like all the stuff that people like to use Christianity, I feel like, as a like when it's convenient and they don't.
We call it cafeteria Christians. Right.
They pick and choose the things off the menu they want. Right.
And then they go through and do it. So I definitely want to dive further into that.
But continue down. Continue down.
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Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates Pet Injuries and Additional Coverage and subject to policy terms. So that started this question in my head though, just like, so is greed bad then? Or is it good? Or like, where does it fit in the whole grand scheme of things? Because it is something that's instilled at all of us from birth, right? When you're born, your baby, if you didn't have greed, you would just die, right? It's me.
Like, I need some of the food. I need food.
I need love. I need shelter, which makes you cry, which creates people coming to you.
Like, it's greed is this driving force that's instilled in humans from birth, right? When we come here, greed is what helps us survive the first part of our life. And at first I was having this conundrum.
I'm just like, is this book evil? I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, but I'm like, all the good things in my life that happened, happened initially because of the seed of greed started me on motion, started me in momentum. And then I started thinking, if you've read the Expert Seekers book, which, if you haven't, you haven't, you must hate money.
Come on. No, but in the beginning of Expert Seekers book, I talk about this concept as well, where as an expert, there's two phases we go through.
The first is a growth phase, right? Like I want to be an expert in whatever you go through and you're a consumer, right? Consuming everything. And that's greed, right? And then there's this transition point where eventually you keep trying to grow, grow, grow, grow, right? Trying to there i'm listening to the podcast i'm reading all the books i'm growing growing growing and eventually there's this this point i remember feeling it in multiple parts of my life in wrestling i felt it in business i felt it where where you can't continue i guess it gets hard like that your ability to grow through consumption slows to almost like a halt where you can't continue to grow right and so for me it's like I've shared the story.
I think I shared it in the book with wrestling. It was like, I was, I was a really good wrestler.
I was a high school state champ. I was in a, took second place in the nation.
I was an all American and my senior year, I got invited to go to wrestling tournament and my wrestling or a wrestling camp. My coach is like, Hey, do you want to come coach wrestling this summer? And I was like, why would I do that? Like, I like, what's in it for me before you go on here i want to ask is this so you're riding your bike chapter like wrestling with this whole greed thing is this the first time that you've thought about greed in this way like this is the first time so you like and this is how long this is what six months ago um not even that probably probably through maybe four months ago so you've built most of click funnels of what click funnels is today and now this is the first time like you're really sitting down and like wrestling with this idea of like greed and is it bad is it good like what's the balance there and stuff like that yeah that's fascinating yeah it never crossed my mind really um and then i started like it became this thing where like it bothered me because i'm like oh my gosh like i don't want to be a greedy like you Like, you know what I mean? Right.
And I'm like, I don't feel like I am, but like,

but I was stuck. I couldn't figure that out.
Right. And so I'll rewind to the wrestling story.

Cause I think I set it up. Yep.
But, um, my senior year, so again, I had been growing as a

wrestler. I was going to camps.
I was getting coaching and it was greedy, right? I was sucking

up everyone's brain power. I could, and I became a really good wrestler because of it.
And then,

um, my, my coach asked me to go coach at wrestling camp. So I say, yes, go to the wrestling camp.

And I remember he's like okay I need you to teach uh my best moves is cheap like I'm really good at tilts so the rest of the other I'm really good at cheap tilts and he's like teach these kids how to do cheap tilt and I was like okay like so I walk out like 30 kids I'm like hey you do this like you just do it like that and they all grab they all look at me and they go try and they try to do cheap tilt and they all just fall apart and like just dumb it's not that hard i'm like get back in come back in no you did it all wrong that's how you do i show them again like go do it they go back out nobody can do it and then also i'm like gosh like they're missing something what is this i haven't come back in i start breaking down like hey for the move to work like your hips have to be here your legs have to be here i start walking through all the things and as i'm doing that i start realizing like oh the reason why i'm able to do this is because of this i started realizing what i was doing as i was teaching people as i taught it to people then then the kids started doing it and they got better and better and also i started realizing like oh my gosh like this movement works because of this and now i was aware of the like the situation now i was able to like make these tweaks and stuff my own and and like i realized that coaching other kids, I like, that was the next level of growth. It was the shift from like selfish greed growth to contribution.
And so after I started coaching camps every year, and that's how I started, um, I went from like slowing down my progression to like, all of a sudden it sped back up again by shifting from growth to contribution. Okay.
And so I think the same thing happens in business, right? I got in business because that seat of greed is in us. It gets us moving, gets us into momentum.
And some people never get out of that. Some people live their entire lives chasing greed and they die and it's a tragedy, right? But I think for most people, there's this transition point.
I don't know where it happens. It happens in different spots for everyone where all of a sudden you realize you make the money, you start the business and you realize how unfulfilling that is, right? You're tapping out.
You're like, I'm not growing anymore. Like I thought I wanted money, but I don't, I want growth.
Like that's what we're here on this planet for us to get, is to grow as humans, right? You don't get that. And all of a sudden you realize the money's not fulfilling, but then you start help.
You start seeing the other people you're contributing to, how you're helping. And then it shifts to like, you know, we hear people talk about like, it's an business about impact, about growth.
It's about helping other people. And like, that's that transition.
That's charity, love of christ right it's that transition but greed is the seed that gets us moving right and so there's this there's this like this handoff it doesn't happen all the time and just are you guys cool if i get like like share scripture stuff because like all this stuff is scriptural like it's not just they don't get to decide russell it's my podcast if i If you need scriptures, close your ears and go blah, blah, blah. If I wrote down some scriptures, like this is a scripture.
So because it illustrates this point, like I think it's so good. Also, I just want to say, Russell voxed me, and he said that this is the first episode of a podcast that he's ever prepared for.
And I just feel like when you said that, I'm like, ha, I was the first for something for Russell. Let's go.
I want to be ready. Okay.
So this is a scripture. It says, for the natural man is an enemy to God and has been from the fall of Adam and will be forever and ever.
And I'm sorry, that case. Natural man's enemy.
God. Why is that? We're born.
We have this greed inside of us. So we're the natural human is the enemy God because we're chasing after greed.
Right. But, but, but God gives us that seed because this creates momentum.
It creates motion. It creates us doing something, right? And then it says in here, it says, for the natural man's enemy of God and has been for the fall of Adam, will be forever and ever.
And then this is the transition point. Unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit.
So he'll be, like, he's greedy forever, right? Forever, ever. Unless he yields the enticings of the Holy Spirit and put it off the natural man and become with the saint through the atonement of Christ, the Lord, and become as a child submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord sees fit to inflict upon him, even as the child does submit to his father.
So growth is the seed. It's the natural man.
It's the thing we have that it's good, right? God gives it to us because it gets us to do stuff, gets us to learn. It gets us to not die in our crib like because we need love and attention and bit fed right so then it gets us off our butts off the couches that's being producers it gets us moving and if we're not careful though the natural man will will destroy us like you see so many people who have made tons of money and they destroy themselves in their lives because they don't do that second thing which is um uh unless he yields the entice in the holy spirit that's the thing saying this is not about not about money.
This is about the impact. Look at the people you're changing.
And it shifts, right? If you make that shift, and all of a sudden, now the senior creating is not about greed. It's like, oh my gosh.
Like I remember for ClickFunnels, when I had that transition, it's like when I started seeing Brandon and Caleb Poland, I started seeing the ripple effect of their business. I started seeing, and I can name hundreds of people, like person after person after person.
I was like, this isn't about money. This is about the ripple effect of what we've created each person's life.
And like, now that's charity. That's love.
That's like, now the mission is about money. Like we don't care about them.
I mean, we keep score with money, but like, but that's the mission is the people's lives and the impact. And I think that's that transition where it's like greed is the thing that gets us moving.
But if we don't have that, I think that's happened in the book. We talked about, like you said this in my house earlier, like a lot of people in the books seem like they have a miserable wife.

And it's like,

yeah,

because they'd never yielded to the spirit.

Like they never made that shift.

It was all greed to the point where they let everything collapse as opposed

to like,

yeah.

So one of the things about the book and I'm,

I'm sitting on the plane,

like on the way over here and I'm like,

how do I articulate this?

Cause that's always the hardest thing.

Like you have this idea in your head and you're like, how do I get it out and explain it in a way that somebody else can be like yes i understand that but like most and i'm gonna go kind of political here for a second i'm gonna like bring it back too specific to the book so like i am pretty vocally a conservative right i'm a blatant trump supporter uh very much so conservative when it comes to everything fiscal.

But I call myself a libertarian because I actually think that I lean left on a lot of social issues. Like I am – I think the government should stay out of gay marriage, right? Like there's a lot of things that I lean left on.
But when it comes to money and finances and things like that, I lean to the right. but like the reason i lean to the right and i typically go with the right is because like i

like what the left is trying to do in concept, right? It's like, okay, there's a bunch of like people that are really truly in need. Like I agree.
We like, we need to help them. Problem is that the way they go about doing it, I like so radically disagree with.
It's like, I guess everything I stand for. Right.
I'm like, it's not that I disagree with what you want to do is I disagree with how you want to do it. Yeah.
What's interesting is I feel like in this book, I feel like it's like the opposite. I actually don't agree with why they're doing it.
Like this concept of like, I mean, Hank Reardon says it like over and over again, like everything that I do is for profit. That is it.
That is, it is not for you. Even to his friends, right?

Like he took a bullet for John Galt, right?

Like he gets shot and like John Galt thanks him for it.

He goes, you know, I only did it

because it's what I wanted to do, right?

Like literally like saves a guy's life.

He's like, so it's like, it's all about what he wants

and only for him and that's it.

It's like profit and money and dollars.

It's not about everything that he helps.

And I'm like, I disagree with that premise.

Like I don't, but the, what that leads to, I actually do like, and I feel like it's flipped compared to like the light, the world that like I'm living in now. It's like half the stuff that the Democrats or her, I hate to, I don't do politics so bad, but like left and right.
Yeah. The left guys, we're going to say left and right generalized here.
All right. Oh my God.
But like generally speaking. And so when it comes to like the whole, the whole greed issue, I'm like, it's interesting to hear your perspective.
Like, cause I never, even throughout the book, I'm like, greed is a bad thing. And like hearing your perspective and like, like, you know, when it says, I'm like, okay, like I understand what you're saying, but like, what, like, is it greed or is there some other driving? Like if I were to ask you a year ago, right.
When were you in like the heart of ClickFunnels? Like a year and a half ago, two years. Like there was a time of your life with all you, I don't know all you do is ClickFunnels.
But like, when like six years of my life, but like, but you know what I mean? Like, wasn't there like a year or two period in there? Like in the growth phase where it was like a hundred percent of everything you do is like ClickFunnels, ClickFunnels, ClickFunnels. It felt like you were going nonstop.
It feels like you're a little bit more balanced now. Maybe not.
But like from the outside perspective, looking at a desk. Anyway, like during that time, like of growing ClickFunnels, but like before you read that, would you have described yourself as greedy? No.
What would you have described yourself as? What's that word? I don't know. That's a good question.
Like I was always trying to create stuff. Like it's art for me, right? So it's like I was trying to create stuff.
But I think initially I was creating it for myself as opposed like oh my gosh i create this for myself but look what happens to and what point was that shift for you though um i think it i mean you can actually you can see it in my marketing by the way and by the way for those who are greedy capitalists who only care about money like it actually is a better marketing way too like my my marketing went from for all your greedy capitalists out there to make more money. Well, think about like my, my marketing was always like, here's Russell, here's how much money my funnel made.
Here's how much that, you know, it was me talking about me all the time. And I realized it's like this, like who cares about me? Like, I don't care about me.
Like, let me show you what this person, like, let me show you all the results of, of, of the people we're serving. Like what's happening there was first off the better marketing.
Second off, it's like, it's that transition, transition literally like everything i've accomplished is stupid like what they're doing like that's the real like what we're doing like that's the thing that's amazing right like that's the spiritual side of it that's the thing where it's like the the thing that got you into motion now is is doing good in the world and like when you start seeing that it's like oh my gosh like that that's so much more fulfilling and so much more exciting and you know people ask me the last six like why do you keep getting up do you need more money i'm like no like getting up but i can tell you a hundred stories of people who literally like the ripple effect of like how many lives they've changed because i did my thing right like james we uh we made a documentary of the two comic club and jamie cross has this whole partner where she's bawling her eyes out and she said where would my family be if russell wouldn't have fulfilled his god-given calling and like every time i see that i start bawling myself like like that's why eventually you start doing it right but when did that shift happen i don't know it wasn't like a day that just happened it just it just um the energy of it shifted right it was just it was like i don't know it was just it gradually could happen. What's that? Yeah.
Dave, Dave, come on in. Dave's got,

Dave's here dave take the mic here this is honestly i think this has been one thing it's been fun for me to watch russell from from the sidelines here yeah i think honestly it was your dad's 60th birthday and i don't even know three or four years ago probably but it was it was the reflection on that And it was the difference from having your hand raised versus, cause yeah, remember you, I'll let you tell the story. That's a much better story.
I'll, I'll see the thought, but I'll let him finish. All right.
Thank you. Thank you, Dave.
Interesting. Guys, we have a live audience here.
So, um, you know, my dad turned 60 and, um, we have our little family reunion every year we do. And so it was during his birthday.
And I remember my mom, my mom gave him $60, 60, 10, uh, six, $10 bills. And so I gave him one at a time.
So, okay, the first decade was like one to 10. Like, tell us what you remember about that.
He's like, I don't remember anything back then. No second one.
He's like 10 to 20. That's when I was a wrestler.
Like, you know, so much fun for me. And then 20 to 30, it was like, okay, that's when like I was starting my business, trying to figure things out and trying to get our family stable.
30 to 40, like that's when my kids were wrestling and I was coaching them. And then 50 to 60, kind of went through everything.
And then after it was done, I asked him, I said, of all the decades, like what one was the best for you? Thinking in my world, like the best was going to be like when he was a wrestler. Because I was like me the greatest part of my life was like when i was wrestling and my dad said the greatest decade

is when i got to coach you um and i remember um yeah i remember i forgot i forgot that story

until dave said that but i remember um coming back and telling dave and other people that like

um i always thought like the the best part was being the all-star that my dad the best part was

like coaching other people and that was a good introduction there dave huh which was which was