RHS 030 - Brent Kelly on Why the Grass is NOT Greener Outside Insurance

Hello everyone and welcome back to the Ryan Hanley Show and today we're joined by a very special guest, one of the gentlemen that I have known the longest in this space. He was reaching out into the internet to connect with people, to find other professionals that were doing interesting, fun things at the same time that I was, back in the 2009, 2010, 2011 days.
My man Brent Kelly is on the show today. Brent Kelly is one of the premier sales leadership performance consultants in our space.
And if he's not the best today, he will be in the very near future because he just keeps getting better. And the work that he's doing at the Sicken's group with Roger Sicken's is second to none.
It's really tremendous stuff. And it's been so much fun.
We're going to talk about it during the show, but it's been so much fun to watch Brent evolve from agent to doing his own thing to working with Sickens and now rising up through that organization. And it's just fun when you see one of your friends do really well.
And I've known Brent for a long time. And it makes me happy to see him happy and doing what he loves and helping agents.
And we just talk about all that stuff today and you're just going to love this episode. But before we get to Brent, we have to talk about the people that make this show possible.
I want to give a huge shout out. I want to do a clear call to action.
Go to advisor evolved.com advisor evolved.com. Don't believe me that advisor evolves creates the dopest websites in the insurance game, maybe in the internet period.
Go to rogue risk.com. Go check out rogue risk.com right now.
Check out my website. I don't care.

I'm not doing that as a call to action.

There's nothing for you to buy there.

I want you to check out that site because it's built on the Advisor Evolved platform. Check it out.
Advisor Evolved, websites that aren't just pretty pictures on the internet. They're tools for your business.
And I just can't thank Chris Langell and his team and what they did for Rogue Risk to give us an absolutely gangster presence on the interwebs. I know it's early.
I know your website doesn't mean everything. But for a young company like mine to establish ourselves, be able to send people to a website that looks like roguerisk.com does today, it means a lot.
It gives us confidence. It gives our clients confidence that when we talk to them, that we're legit, that we're here, that we're rock solid.
And I couldn't have done it without the fine people at advisor evolved.com. Go to advisor evolved.com.
Schedule your demo, figure out how you can make the transition to an advisor evolved website today all right let's get on to brent kelly what's up man

not much you got enough going on right now or you dude i just uh i just interviewed matt

masiello the ceo of siya yeah how'd that go it was good it's good he's good good dude um

Thank you. I just interviewed Matt Masiello, the CEO of SIA.
Yeah. How'd that go? It was good.
It was good. He's a good dude.
You know, I think, you know, I think, you know, there's a lot of different opinions about SIA. They have a lot of agents.
He's good and bad to everything, but I feel like I've never not gotten the impression from him that he is doing everything that he believes he can in order to improve agents the industry and the members who are part of it so I thought it would be cool to have him on because I wanted to get his perspective I mean this is an organization that collectively writes a billion dollar eight eight, eight billion dollars in premium. Sorry.
Yes. Yes.
And and, you know, I just think that there's a lot of misconceptions. And, you know, one person has one experience, one person has another.
And we start to, you know, you know, I think we start to get a narrative in our head that isn't actually always what's taking place. And like, I know a lot of them, I shouldn't say I know a lot.
I know a dozen or so master agents in the SA network, um, and worked for a bunch of them and, you know, they all seem pretty good people. So I just thought it'd be fun.
It was, it was definitely more stressful than like like if I'm talking to you or Cass or somebody who can just have like a – you know, obviously I have some places

I want to go, but like we can have a conversation.

You know, I had to like interview up to get –

Oh, yeah.

You know, I don't – here's a dude who runs a pretty big organization

who's lost a dude.

Like I don't want to mess with his time.

I don't want him to get done and be like, this is a joke.

Right.

I get it. And then I remembered that I had a hoodie on so it's all right hey it's part of it you were you were interviewing up you're prepping but you were still being real right oh trying to be something like that so dude let's um let's get right into it like I you know all right.
So here's where I want to start. So Cass and I put this 20 must follow agents for 2020 thing together.
I don't know if you saw that. Or 20 insurance pros.
You were one of them. Thank you, by the way.
Oh, well, yeah, obviously, man. You're very deserving.
Deserving more than most.

And what was funny was when we got to your name on the list,

Cass did something that I hadn't really thought about

or at least not thought about in a long time.

He was like something, something, something.

Like, bro, like, remember back when it was just me, you, and Brent Kelly?

It was, like, just the three of us.

We were the only ones talking about this stuff. Right.
And I remember like those old Google Plus days where like we'd have the grainy videos it would take us 15 minutes to get on and get it all working and then we would talk about this stuff and what's working and what wasn't working and like you know there were other people that popped in and out of that and uh and and everyone's good peoples but it was just funny like I hadn't really thought about those days and like today there's so many people having conversations like the one we're about to have seven eight years ago it was a handful like just a handful that was it yeah it's well I think I had this conversation with Cass not long ago too um I said two things what you do sometimes forget to reflect on oh my god like I do remember that and then number two is that we're getting old man like because I was thinking because I thought about that too a little bit ago and I can't remember when we first i mean i know there's different aspects and it kind of evolved but your hair was darker then too my hair i got a lot of a lot of salt and a pepper right but thanks for pointing that out by the way i appreciate that uh that's true my my kids call me on all the time pictures you had dark hair i'm like yeah wisdom hair is coming in uh but but that's been like 10 years yeah yeah so dude i started writing insurance in 2006 yeah we all connected in 2009 ish 2010 is when we started connecting the internet started providing us with enough capabilities to find each other. Yep.
It's pretty wild. So, so you have come, you, your, your career, I think probably much like my own has taken a lot of twists and turns.
You've been a bunch of different places and, you know, give us the, just for the few people that don't know who you are. And if you're listening to this and you're not connected to Brent, then I got to be honest with you.
There's something wrong with you. No, dude, go, go, go find Brent and check out that post or just go search him on LinkedIn.
But, um, uh, cause as you'll see, you know, we're, we're talking to one of the, one of the best, one of the best in the industry. And, and in my opinion, uh, I think, I think there are some others with more experience than you, but I think in the very near future, you will be probably the best like agent sales trainer in the industry.
And, um, and we'll all be able to say we knew him when yeah right right right so tell us just give us the 10 the 10 000 foot you know quick rewind view of of the couple stops that you've made to where you are today well i mean as you just said i mean i started as a producer i mean that's that's where i got my teeth kicked in as we all hear and and made made thousands upon thousands of mistakes. And I had a few wins in there as well.
So 15 years in production with two agencies. So even that time kind of flew by.
I remember when I officially left the last agency I was with to start my own business, which was my next step to do consulting, speaking, coaching. I honestly didn't exactly know.
This is advice to anyone to start their own business, have a better plan than what I did. But I mean, I knew I wanted to do what I'm doing now.
I just didn't know how it would look or feel. And I think, Ryan, you've had obviously some of those experiences in your career as well.
And it you know, it just goes into the fact that I enjoy, I love the industry, although probably like many people listening to this, there were several times where I thought, and this would be a great opportunity to get out. You know, like, yeah, try something new, do something unique, go out and, you know, and it certainly, as we've all talked about, I mean, as the different events I've been to, it sucks you back in, right? And for a lot of good reasons.
I mean, you know, part of it is, yeah, you've got ties there. You've got experience.
There's knowledge. There's credibility.
But I don't want to be cliche, but it's the people. I mean, we talked about us connected in 2009, but it's just amazing how many of those connections that you have.
And so I started my own business, started in 2015, and I was doing a number of different things. Like I said, it was really focused around sales, marketing, some leadership, but then I kind of gravitated more into the leadership coaching, which really kind of started the idea of performance, right? This idea of how do you help just like, you know, athletes, how do you help them perform at a higher level? And so that was whether it's agency leadership or sales.
And then in 2017, I got connected to Roger Sitkins, who I had read years and years, who I had talked to other people. And everybody's got different opinions on everyone.
And I didn't know Roger. I didn't really have an opinion other than when I started talking to him, he was very credible.
And I went to a producer camp and I thought, why aren't more people doing this? Like, it wasn't, and he'd be the first to tell you and people that attend, it's not rocket science, some of the stuff that we talk about, but it's taking some very simple ideas that work and execute. And so my role now is I work with agencies as part of the Sitkins group.
I'm the

vice president. We have our main goal, our main purpose is our private client network.
So we have a private client group we work really closely with. And we coach, we train, work with the producers, work with the agency leaders.
And it's, I mean, simplistically, get results and do it the right way. And I think the cool thing, Ryan, is that going back to, we talked about 2009 with me, you and Cass and being one of the first few people to do it.
It's how you kind of take stuff that works, principles and philosophies that are never going to change and just adapt and put some different life to them. And, you know, I mean, as we know, the business is evolving.
It'll never stop evolving. And so that's the cool thing is that the older I get, and I'm sure you've heard this before and experienced this, the older I get, I realize the less that I actually know.
And so I can see myself, and I appreciate the comment about, you know, being one of the best sales trainers. Certainly my goal is to be the best that I can be, right, the Army slogan.
But, it's not so much just because of me. It's because what I can give back.
And that's what I want to do. I want to make a greater impact.
And I also know that by the time I'm 50 or 60 and I'm completely gray and or bald, um, I'll know even less because you'll learn enough more things. You go, wow, I didn't realize that either.
So, um, and that's one last thing. I know I'm, I'm rambling here.
No, it's great. But the cool thing that I have learned and people say, you know, with Roger, what has your relationship been like, or what have you learned? One of the things that's just always interesting to me is Roger just turned 70 years old.
So as he would say, it's his 20th anniversary of his 50th birthday. And I've never seen someone, I mean, a lot of people it's like, okay, I'm good financially.
I'm set, good reputation. You know I don't need to learn anymore, but I've never seen someone, I mean, a lot of people, it's like, okay, I'm good.
Financially, I'm set. Good reputation.
You know, I don't need to learn anymore. But I've never seen someone after every event.
Okay, what do we do well? How do we do this better? What can, you know, it's always asking, what do we not cover? What do we not learn? What's changing the industry? How do we understand technology better? And most people wouldn't get that. So to see someone who's got that hunger for growth and learning and how it then impacts those people you're serving, has probably been the greatest lesson I've learned.
Yeah. You know, wow, there's so much in there to unpack.
I love it. So one thing I would tell people is that from my own experience, and I would love for you to comment on this, the grass, insurance is not sexy.
And I think we stand in the field of insurance and we look out over the fence and we're going, man, that looks beautiful over there. And geez, look how wide open that is.
And oh, that just, that looks like the tastiest grass I've ever seen in my whole life. And you get over there and you

realize that like the grass isn't greener on that side. This is, you know, having been worked, except for working inside a carrier, I basically worked just about every other avenue that you can have in this business.
And now I've spent time outside the business and I spent time outside the business before coming into the industry. Um, I don't know that it gets much greener than here.
Right. I just don't know that it does from a, from a, uh, challenging you perspective from a, you know, how much there is to learn, like how deep you can go if you want to, how wide you can go if you want to, the various opportunities that exist, the amount of money that you can make in this industry, how well you can support your family, your goals, if you want to give back or like, you know, I did a, I did an episode that will air before this one comes out.
Everything you've ever wanted to know about Jason Kass and one of his goals, right? Like, like anyone has ever wanted to know what they already do, right? But like he was talking about how one of his lifelong goals was to build churches in Cuba, which he's already started to do. And like that's possible because of the insurance industry.
I mean, this is a guy whose story has a moment in it where he has a two-year-old and not a single present under the Christmas tree because he hasn't made enough money to do that. And now he has enough where he has three location agency and he's taken four trips a year to build churches in Cuba.
The insurance industry provided him with them. He had to do the work.
And, um, you know, I, I, I'm just, I mean that, I mean, obviously I think that's probably what you're going to say, but I would love for you to comment on that because I think there's a lot of people as digital becomes more pervasive, digital tools of, of what, of every extent become more pervasive. There is this idea of, and I was given this advice, Ryan, don't stay just in the insurance industry, branch out, go to more places, have a consulting agency that works in all these industries.
Obviously I didn't take that advice. And it's because I believe that the greenest grass that you can find, maybe there are other industries that are just as good, but the greenest grass you can find is here.
I mean, is that, am I crazy? What do you think? No, I think you said it really well. And, um, you know, so often when I talk to insurance professionals, I don't care if you're an agency leader, producer, whatever, that's mainly who we deal with.
But there's no, especially the younger people, however you want to define that there, there is a lot of that because you haven't experienced as much stuff yet. And again, I'll experience a lot more in the next, hopefully, God willing, 20, 30, 40 years.
But you're right, you look at it and you know, I'm kind of settling, you know, I fell into this business, right? There's so many family businesses, which is great, but it's like, is this really my path? And that's a fair question to ask. I think we all need to ask that question.
But as far as a business model, lifestyle opportunity, impact that you can make, I don't think there is a better business, a better, you know, I hate the word industry, but that's, that's out there that can provide the things that you want. One of our biggest frustrations, and I'm sure you've experienced this too, Ryan, in different roles you've played of doing coaching and consulting training, however you want to define it is the biggest challenges is it's hard to find people that are hurting enough that really want help.
And I know that sounds crazy because there's some agencies and producers that go, you know, I'm struggling, things are better, but I'm telling you what, we asked a question at a producer camp. We've got 40 people sitting there go, how many are making more money than anybody else in your family right now? Most hands are, you know, how many are making more money than this or that? And it's not just the money, we know that, but the opportunity it provides.
And you know, the cool thing is the fact that even when we do our models with insurance producers, for example, we base it off 42 weeks. We say, here's the deal.
You're going to screw around for 10 weeks of the year anyway. So let's just prepare for 42.
All that being said is, yes, I think it's easy to look at and go, oh, that's a cool thing. I could do that.
That would be neat. That's got a sexier feel to it.
And if that's where your heart and passion lie, you want to make an impact there, go for it. Great.
But you and I are not the only ones. Others have kind of teed her outside of it and gone, wait a second here.
This opportunity and how we serve people and the freedom it provides both time and in money and the recurring revenue model that even if you're not very good with client experience, that probably 90% of your clients stay with you and pay you again, find me a better model. Yeah.
And here's the other thing too, man, cause I think, I think what happens is, and this is why I love the, why I like that technology is becoming more and more a part of our business and why new models. Like I would like to believe that the model I'm creating is not wholly new, but it is in part new.
And what it is, is very specifically me. That's what I believe Rogue is.
Rogue, the way it's going to be built, and I'm going to talk more about it as it becomes a real thing. And some of the pieces I have to tear down because I'm just talking on my ass.
But it will be very uniquely who I am and what I believe. And every agency is able to be that.
And what it does is, I feel like that provides, like, you can go, like, you can be challenged in new ways every day in this industry. And that is not the case in other industries.
That is simply not the case. Like, I'll tell you coming from the fitness industry, like, I was nine months in, and granted, I didn't love fitness.
You know what I mean? I wasn't a fitness guru. I was someone who enjoyed being fit and I gave my heart and soul to that business.
But like, I wasn't, fitness didn't like turn me on, you know, just like insurance doesn't turn me on on a day to day. But what I love about insurance is there are so many new challenges that I've never been in this industry and felt, I've never felt that like, ah, geez, I've kind of got it figured out.

And after nine months in the fitness space, I kind of felt like take hot co-ed between 25 and 45, get them sweaty, take up shots and put a inspirational language around image and post on social media and clients come and sign up like rinse, repeat, right? Do one with a woman who's a little older, do one with a, with a teen basketball player guy. Like, I mean, there just wasn't any more to it.
You show up, you work out, it's cool, rinse and repeat. And that doesn't make the business diminished.
It just means that was kind of what it was. And then execute on that with insurance, man, there's just you, there's so many different, you can take on a new niche, you can find a new way to sell, you can add a new product, you can add a new piece of technology.
It just feels to me like it's, there's so much here. Yeah.
So I'm just trying to unpack that because that's powerful. I wrote down one word, which is kind of my theme personally.
And then as I use, as I talk to insurance agencies and some of the stuff I have upcoming in the first and second quarter of this year, but it's about depth. And I think, you know, you just kind of hit it.
And again, this isn't to compare all the different industries or businesses out there, because there's going to be different models. But I do think, just like anything in life and in business, that from the outside grass is greener.
If you stay shallow, it's pretty cool. But once you're in something for a while, and you have to go deeper, then it's like, wait a second, what else is there? Is there another level more to this is there i mean you can use that for anything right you travel around you do speaking engagements and you stay at a nice hotel and like michelle that's awesome how cool does that look but then you go into some of the depth behind it right and and again this isn't even the speaking i'm actually talking about like locations or grass is green oh be cool to live here well yeah it's cool when you stay at the hotel there and you're on a beach.
Yeah, that is pretty cool. But what's the depth of the daily lifestyle? I think, and I know I'm taking this in a weird way, but it's like with the insurance, we start going deeper.
There are a lot of places to go. Like you said, you can create the model you want, the niche you want, you know, the clients you want to create.
I mean, opportunities are great. And even within that, it changes a hundred different ways.
Yeah. So I, I, I thousand percent agree.
It's a, it's a, it's a depth issue in my mind. Yeah.
And, and I think I would just roll this part of our conversation into the idea that like, if you're thinking about leaving, if it's something you have to do, like it just, there's a calling to you, right? You want to start your own yoga studio you want to become a speaker you want to do something else by all means live your dream like do it but please I would say take a second and question yourself if you're doing it because the it feels like the grass is greener someplace else or you're doing it because it's actually what you want to do. Because I just firmly believe, and I've believed this for a very long time, because I did not leave the insurance industry to go to fitness because I didn't like insurance.
There's a whole story to that, which I won't tell. It doesn't.
Oh, come on, Ryan. Let's dive deeper into that today.
You know, I, I could share the For some people who've listened to me, maybe I've kind of hit on it, but I left the insurance industry, and this will be two minutes because we're supposed to be talking about you, but I left the insurance industry because my brother-in-law was sick. He has since passed away.
And when I was with Bold Penguin, my wife came to me,

and I have no beef with Bold Penguin. Perfectly fine company.
They treated me perfectly fine. I wish them nothing but success.
I still talk to a lot of people there. So me leaving Bold Penguin had nothing to do with like, they didn't like me or I didn't like them.
My wife came to me and said, you need to be home her brother the the the heir to the agency who was their by far their primary producer got very very very sick and she said you needed to be home and I could not find a job in the insurance industry that allowed me to continue to provide for my family in the way in which I was accustomed and not get on airplanes and I had to not not be on airplanes because at any given time, my wife was pulling all nighters at the agency or flying to Arkansas to be with her brother and support and all that. And, and I needed to be there for her.
And the only job I could find, and at the time it seemed like a wonderful opportunity was this job in the fitness space. So, um, I did not leave this industry because I was sick of insurance that, that, that was not the case.
Um, I did everything I did in terms of like, you know, social media stuff, because that's what I do. I dive in a hundred percent, but I don't want people to look at what I did and go, well, Ryan, you left or, or Hey, Brent, you started biz grids and you were doing all kinds of different stuff.
Like, I think the truth is, and I'm going to speak for you, but I want you, I think like life happens and not everything goes exactly the way you plan. Certainly not for me, but I've come back and I've seen you come back and I've seen, it just feels to me like since you've hooked up with Sickins, you've taken it to another level and I'm trying to kind of follow suit with you as i come back like it feels to me like that move back from biz grids to sickens took you to a whole nother level just you feel more polished more confident more just all of it i mean do you or do you feel that way about yourself when you wake up in the morning oh yeah i mean yeah as i said earlier i mean, I realize the less that I know.
But at the same time, looking back, you know, from the outside world, I've grown a ton. Yeah.
You know, and I think that, you know, this is part of a mindset too. And, and I was fortunate, you know, I started to get into personal growth and development and some of those different concepts, even in my 20s, even though I didn't know what half of it meant, and I didn't do a lot of it, I started to take pieces.
And the hard part about, you know, even going and talking about depth and all this, what I just mentioned is that that growth process isn't fast. Yeah.
And no one wants to hear that. I mean, I don't, I don't want to hear that.
Like, okay, you just keep pouring that time in, Brent, don't worry, you know. But I think one of the things, Ryan, you talk about, you know, since Sitkins, I mean, a lot of it is being surrounded by other people that can help you.
I mean, there, there is a mentality and this is true in the insurance world, whether it's an agency leader or a producer of, I got this figured out. We give that, we give them a, a, an acronym, SAKU, S-A-K-U, source of all knowledge in the universe.
They know everything. Just ask them.
And, and I think, you know, to a degree I had some of that, like, oh, I got, I'll figure this out. I'll work my tail off.
I'll get that. And you've got to have that, that work ethic, no doubt about it.
But then it's like, wait a second, I'm not that smart. Who do I need to connect with and learn from that can help quantum leap where I'm at? And so, yeah, directly from Roger Sitkins, our team, not just Roger himself, which is great,

but the agencies and companies and contacts that he's put me in connection with that I could have deeper level conversations. Sometimes you're like, wow, I've grown more than I could ever imagine because I've been able to get in opportunities that I haven't had before.
And so I don't know if that answers your question, but I mean, yeah, I, you know, so that's one of the things, and again, this is just general for anybody. I've said this hundreds of times on different areas, but like find mentors, find people that will push you and challenge you.
Quit trying to figure, you know, say, I've got it all. No, I got it all figured out.
You don't, and none of us do. So, you know, I don't know if that's my call to action, but geez, find people that can help you.
And this podcast is starting to sound like an independent agent recruiting video. But I do think that, and I find this in my own career, is whenever I have felt a little stagnated, I seek out those people that I feel like are crushing it, right? Like, like I'm going to IAOA Innovation 2020.
This year in San Diego, I leave tomorrow morning. It's the first year I've ever gone because it's the first year I've ever been a independent agency owner.
Which is cool to say because it still feels weird. Even though I haven't written a policy yet.
Which hopefully New York State will let me do soon. New York state, hint, hint, please.
I'm starting a business in New York. Please let me start my business.
Someone stamped that TPS report and push it across. There you go.
Is like David Carruthers, right? I, David, I am like, I can't wait to listen to this dude give his presentation. I see the things he's doing, the way he's attacking the business, the way he's mixing sales and value and the market he's going after.
And I'm like, this is a dude, like, I can't wait to learn what this guy has. And it's pushing me to move forward.
And I think it would be easy. Oh, I've been a producer and I know digital marketing and, you know, and I've, and I've, and I just say to myself, like, if you're feeling stuck, just see, there are so many people doing shit way cooler, way different than you are that can give you that new edge, that new thing, that new gets you, gets you to show up every morning.
So I just hate to see good talent go out the door and we've both done it to a certain certain extent. And I know business still worked inside of the industry a little, but then come back.
And I just, I just, if you can avoid that time, my time outside the industry, even though I learned some valuable skills feels wasted to a certain extent. Like I wish I hadn't lost that almost a year.
I wish that I had stayed in the industry. Um, if I'm looking back on it and, um, if I, if other people can avoid that, I would recommend it.
Yeah. Well, I think just, I mean, to that there are, I mean, you just did that list, you know, the 20, but it was way more than that.
Um, it's just, I think the, if I just had to sum it up, it's just always be curious. You're always close.
Always be curious. I mean, and just to realize that you're not that smart and that's not to say that, you know, I'm a guy that belief in confidence, all things that you do.
So I don't say that with that intention. I just say the fact that there are a lot of people doing stuff they've done at 10, 15, 20 years or shorter, whatever it is, that have a heck of a lot of expertise that can shorten that, that pain curve.
You're going to have, you're going to, you're going to have pain anyway. That's part of the deal.
Um, but you might as well avoid some of it. And so, yeah, I mean, it could be anything

from just picking up the phone and having a call with someone that to be necessarily formalized,

but, um, I think it's just easy to get stuck in the fact that, well, this is who I am. This is

what I do. This is how it's going to be.
And as I said earlier, Ryan, in this business,

that can be easy to do because sometimes being stuck and plateaued is a pretty nice lifestyle. Yeah, I get that.
I get that. You get to get a real nice handicap on your, on your golf score.
Um, so let's, let's, let's, let's flip this. So we've done a lot of like high level, casual, fluffy conversation.
Let's talk a little bit about what you do for a living. Like I want to, what are some of the things, like you said, you know, a lot of what you teach is foundational kind of, it's not rocket science stuff, but it's helping people come up with processes to execute.
So without giving away all your sickens, black box, trade secrets, you know, the double secret to the kingdom. You're a producer and you're, you're, you're, you know, the double secret, uh, to the kingdom.
Um, you know, like what are, you're a producer and you're, you're, you're a, you feel like a high performer, but you're not getting the performance that you want. Like what are some things that, how would you address that? How would you start to unlock that for someone? So I'll just, cause I, this isn't totally a black box secret.
Cause I'm actually going through like seven of our core strategies on LinkedIn each week and I put on my podcast. So they'll be there as well.
But just like, I mean, take like a high level thing, give like one action or thinking item around them because I'm just looking at even the strategies on my whiteboard because I keep them in front of me. But you know, one of the things that we look at is, for example, with any agency team is establishing MeInc, which is what is the company that you're going to run inside your agency? What's part of we Inc.
And where most agencies struggle, if I guess there's one foundational thing across agencies, and this is whether it's service sales, whatever, it's lack of accountability. There, there is, there is no, um, if I, and again, I don't want to just throw out percentages, but I'm sure it's well more than 90%, um, of agencies.
If I say, what's your defined role? What are your defined expectations? How are they documented? And who's keeping you accountable to that? They would say, I don't know, right? And then so what happens, agency leaders get frustrated because like, why aren't they doing what they should be doing? Well, because there's never been any defined role necessarily. When I say role, it could be a lot of different things or define results.

And we're not doing something to help them stay accountable to what, not just what I said as agency leader, but what we've designed together. And I think that's often a missing piece.
So, you know, one core strategy is me, Inc. And there's a lot of things we go and dive around that.
And I just throw some others out there. I mean, this is so simplistic, buying back time.
We spend, Ryan, in our producer camp almost a half of the first day just on, not time management, because that doesn't exist. We all have 168 in a week, but situation management.
Are you putting yourself in the right situations? I can tell most, and this again, and this is for producers, but this is true for agency leaders or anybody. If you would document, and this is a hard thing to do, you can do this every half hour.
I just every 15 minutes, what you actually did every 15 minutes, you would be shocked at how much time we waste. And so a big part that we look at with producers in particular is, are you putting yourself in the right position to win? And part of that is just being in the game.
And we talk about what that looks like and how you're doing that. And people say, well, that's sales 101.
Yeah, it is. But you'd be amazed at just that awakening.
How can we do it in a way that, you know, our goal of teaching is that it's not just going to be our idea. We're going to help you kind of walk your way into it.
You go, oh my gosh, I'm a part-time producer making full-time money. I wonder what would happen if I actually did this the right way.
And it'll unlock things, right? You've probably heard me talk about this and I've talked about this as cast, but we spent a lot of time in 80-20, which is only, I mean, it's only been around for 135, 40 years, Alfredo Pareto, of understanding that 20% of something we do leads to 80% of the result. So we talk to agencies and we just have them look at it.
One of the first parts of execution is awareness of what it actually is. So when you look at your books of business, where is the revenue coming from? Where are you spending your time and energy? And typically, we spend a lot of time and energy and frustrations and problems and clients that aren't very profitable.
And we can't figure out why we can't do more with the ones that are profitable. Well, because we got to figure that out.
Same is true with carriers. You know, we have agencies that brag about the fact they have 100 and some carriers.
Good for you. So that out.
Same is true with carriers. You know, we have, I have agencies that brag about the fact they have a hundred and some carriers.
Good for you. That doesn't necessarily mean anything.
I could, it depends on the agency, but typically we see 80, 20 is true on that. So, I mean, those are just three.
I mean, I can run through them all if you want. Yeah.
I actually, I want to talk about the situational management a little bit. Sure.
I really like that.

That's one that I struggle with because I struggle with it for two reasons. One, the fact that I do a lot of things and share a lot of ideas in public.
I have a lot of people constantly pitching me things. And I don't mean that as a negative to anyone who's listening to this has ever pitched me something.
I, I, I have, I learned from actually from Marcus Sheridan, who's a good friend of mine to always appreciate the fact that people are interested in talking to you. Like, don't, don't, you know what I mean? Like the day they stop being interested in talking to you, that's when you should be concerned.
So I try to appreciate that. But, but what I find is, you know, that I tend to consume a lot of content.
I tend to, um, fall into these things that don't actually lead to the results that I need for my business. So then I find myself scrambling and I'm bookending work at either 5am or 7pm instead of, cause during the day I'm doing this other crap.
And, and I've, I've had moments where I've been very good about blocking time on my calendar, and that definitely helps. But that's about as sophisticated as I get.
And I'm just interested, because I think a lot of people share this problem in different ways. Like, how do you really dive into that with somebody? Like, what do you recommend? So and again, whether it's a one one-on-one, you know, perspective, or again, even when I work with agencies, I mean, it works both ways and you just kind of hit on it.
It doesn't have to be, it's one of those things that's not difficult to understand. It's really difficult to do and execute.
And so, you know, one of the things that I've really looked at, and this is for me personally, and just as Sitkins and the agencies we work with, is that you ask yourself that question, if I can only do these few, what are the very few things that if I do is actually going to be that leading indicator, right? Or the needle mover, whatever you want to call. And am I going to actually analyze this objectively, not lie to myself, because it's easy to lie to yourself and go, these are the things that are really going to move the needle.
And so if that's true, then I have to, in my calendar, I have to put those in ahead of the week. I can't hope that I, that I do it on Thursday.
Like it has to be already in my calendar Thursday, 9am to 1030 is that because it's a needle mover. And if Ryan calls me and says, Hey, Brent, I want to chat.
I'm going to go, no, I'm busy. I'm'm booked and that's a really hard thing because i am i am top of the mountain of shiny object syndrome guy and people look at me now i look at my account you're so organized i'm like the only reason i'm organized is because if i don't i'm a mess yeah yeah because i know myself and so you know part of that is just being really intentional about your week.
And, you know, one of the things we do with this, for example, this is for anybody, but we talk about having a Sunday evening review. And I don't care if it's Saturday or Friday afternoon, but most people never actually look on Sunday or before their week and go, okay, what do I really have this week? Is the right stuff? And, and, and taking some time to do that, to prepare before you repair.
And that's a big thing. You're either preparing or you're repairing.
And so most producers go, no, I've never really done that. So that's one thing.
The other thing too, Ryan, and this is kind of getting to what you said as well. And I forgot who I heard this from.
This is pretty basic, but it's worked for me is that when people pitch me with opportunities, I say pitch, you know, whatever it is. I need your time here.
Hey, can I borrow five minutes? Right. I mean, all those kinds of things that I'm sure you've heard or better yet, like, oh, let's schedule it in March or June.
That way I don't have to worry about it now. And then you get to March or June.
You're like, why did I schedule this? I don't want to have this conversation. There's nothing.
This is not, it's a waste of my time. And so what someone told me is immediately when there's a question asked and make a decision, you have two things.
It's either a hell yes or a hell no. And there's no in between.
Derek Sivers. Is that where that came from? Yeah, Derek Sivers.
And I love it. And it helps me.
And because otherwise I'm going, well, you know, there could maybe, and I get caught in this trap. So that's just me personally,

but that's one thing as far as situation management is understanding where are the needle movers actually putting them in the calendar. I mean, this is not rocket science.
And then I would say committing and having someone hold you accountable to it. Yeah.
Yeah. That hell yes or no idea.
So that's Derek Sivers. Derek Sivers was the founder of CD baby.
And I actually, so I, most of the content I consume, I consume through email newsletters. I use probably much to the chagrin of every time management professional in the world.
I use my email inbox as a to do list. I just do.
That has its drawbacks. Don't get me wrong.
But the system actually works for me

because what I don't do is go out into social to find something, right? I don't follow every person who connects with me. I follow the people that I'm interested in their stuff.
So I have small connection groups that I actually follow. And then if I like your stuff, I let you email me to your inbox.
And that's how I know that I give you that I'm interested. He's one of the few people I do.
He's tremendous. But he wrote an awesome book called Anything You Want.
And in that, he shared this idea of hell yes or no, where he does not take a meeting unless he says hell yes.

Every other meeting is no.

And he's like, that doesn't mean if they pitch me again,

it won't be hell yes a year from now.

That doesn't mean that.

He's like, it's not no forever.

It's just right now, that is not a hell yes for me.

So it has to be no so I can get these other things done.

I'm awful at that, by the way,

even though I've known about that for like a decade.

I'm awful at it. You're not alone.
Because everybody wants to be nice, right? You want to be nice. Oh yeah.
I mean, that's the thing. I don't, you know, it's, it's no different whether it's, it's our time when we're talking about agencies that I work with.
I mean, producers, as far as client profile and understanding that, like we want to be nice. It's with a good heart and good intention.
Like, well, I couldn't possibly say no. Like, is that really where you need to best invest your time? Well, no.
Then why'd you do it? I don't know. And then we get caught in this trap, right? Because I mean, we look at situation management.
I mean, our only diminishing asset is our time. Yeah.
We can get back money. We can get back stuff.
We can rebuild relationships in many cases, but time is fleeting. So it's just that to me, and I've done a number again, I've taken many courses on this and I'm so far from being great at it, but I know that I must, because if I don't, especially for me, I mean, I've got five kids.
I mean, if I don't have stuff lined up and thought, like I have to, I mean, some people go, I could never do that. I mean, I've got to have date night on the calendar.
I have to, Oh, I'll have a date with my wife. No, I won't.
Unless I proactively scheduled it. I won't.
Something else will run into it. There's always more things to do.
So it's just simple stuff to understand, but it's just hard to execute. So when you, when you're meeting with agents, you're doing your round tables or private client things you're doing or trainings, like what are some of the things that you're hearing producers or agency principals talk about or ask about that like, has you excited for the future? You know, like tangible stuff, not, you know, someday we'll be able to sell policies with just our mind.
You know what I mean? Like, like, what are some of the like real things that are, that are tangible today that you're like, this is a tool or this is a concept or an idea or whatever that, that, that, that I re this excites me. Like, I think this has real value is, you know, what are you seeing out there? I think it's a, there's a lot of ways I go with that question but I think what jumps out of my mind Ryan is the fact that I think the excitement opportunities that I sense the insure independent insurance agencies and agents have the opportunity to become true professionals again and I say that with all due respect but most of them aren't and I'm probably going to irritate people but I'm very, you know, I just, I see it.
I've been in it and now I'm the outside, is that we want to talk about all the different things and why we're unique and different and the value we provide, whether it's technology face to face. But back to what I mentioned earlier with depth, how many that are really being true risk professionals.
And sometimes we forget the business we're actually in and understand that, you know, really it's a matter of, and I guess, you know, what excites me is this idea of helping agencies change the conversation from quotes and transactions to risk advice and true relationships. And again, it's an easy thing to say, it's a little cliche, but to actually work deep with agencies of how to actually create things around that, because I did, just to give you an idea, probably it was probably the last year or so when I did a number of speaking engagements like you've done.
And I have rooms of different agency leaders and producers. And if I ask about, just from an agency perspective, what actually makes you different? I mean, we hear this all the time, but what actually makes you different?

No one can come up with anything.

No, but Brent, I have 30 carriers to quote your insurance.

You don't understand.

You don't understand.

I give you options.

I can quote you with 30 carriers.

Right.

And that's, and so I started going through this and I've written stuff about this, but became the generic five, you know, great service, best people, all the carriers, we're local. We've been in business a thousand years.
That becomes

our like differentiators, which is we both know pretty much every independent agency outside of

the local thing and been in business a long time, which again, what's the impact for the client?

Like that's to me, it's like, sit down and go, what does this mean for the people I'm trying to

serve? How do I help them win? And just to give an example, one of the things, and this is like, it seems obvious, but it's missed. So I do, we do a lot of work with property and casualty from the business, the commercial side.
We do a lot of commercial and, you know, we have conversation with agencies. I'm like, what do your clients really care about? And they don't care about insurance.
Yeah.

I mean, now again, we could say what the insurance does.

What they really care about is their clients, their profitability, and employees.

So let's start looking at ways to change the conversation, to have, ask real questions,

go deep, be a true advisor.

And that, so that to me is what excites me because I think there's so much opportunity because quite honestly, the bar's really low.

Like it doesn't take a lot more.

It just takes more sometimes where you ask questions to clients and they go,

geez, right. I don't know.
No one's ever asked me that before. Oh, okay.

So that's what excites me.

I think there's just that combination of what's out there with, you know,

technology and stuff we've talked about.

And you combine that with going like true,

being a true risk advisor, being a true professional at your craft, right?

Thank you. Yeah.
I, um, I was, uh, I was talking to someone the other day and we were, they were asking me, I was being interviewed by someone and they were asking me about independent agents and their role and their future. And I said, you know, my response was, I don't, I don't, I feel like total number of agencies is going to go down.
I feel like in that way, the industry is going to contract. However, I feel like independent agency influence slash impact in our country, in our economy, in our ecosystem, I feel like that is on the rise.
I'm very bullish on the channel. I'm not bullish on the total number of agents or total number of agencies.
I mean, that's less important, but I feel like the influence of the channel itself, you know, if once we were the most dominant and then we kind of got punched by Mike Tyson right in the face, you know what I mean? And we've kind of been not down and out by any regard but certainly not the unshakable mountain that we once were I feel like we have the opportunity you see you see captive after captive chopping their business you see failed attempts at D to C you see you know mediocre returns from a lot of these insure techs that were and what sustains and what is starting to really grow. I feel like, especially with these hybrid kind of digital, I call them agent optimized agencies, um, is a, is a return of the independent agent.
And, um, you know, I, I just, I, I see this as the trend and, and absolutely people are going to get their heads cut. Like, absolutely.
You don't, you're not making progress. If you're not investing, you're going to get your head cut.
But there, but for those that, that engage, it's like sky's the limit. There's no governor.
Yeah. Well, I mean, two thoughts that came to mind when you were saying that, I mean, number one is, again, I agree.
I mean, the acquisition part, that's going to continue. Actually, the numbers may not change much because a lot of new ones that are small ones starting up too.
So it's kind of swapping. But overall, yes, there's going to be acquisitions.
And a big part of that is, you know, why do agencies sell? Well, I don't begrudge anybody for sale. You know, at some point we're all going to leave.

Got to make that paper, dog.

Right?

So you do what you got to do.

But one of the biggest reasons why it happens maybe sooner or unexpected is because, A,

we haven't perpetuated leadership, right, in any form or fashion.

And, you know, so we've never had these conversations about what's actually going to happen.

And we have no type of agency way or culture of how we're actually doing business. So once that's one person disappears, we're like, I don't know what to do.
So I'll sell. And so there's, you know, there's, there's a lot of that.
There's a lot of different situations of that. The other thing too, and this is more of a humorous standpoint, by any chance, did you watch Hulk Hogan as a kid growing up? I did.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I just had this weird image when you were saying like, we got knocked down. I just picture like a Hulk Hogan getting punched on for a while.
And all of a sudden he starts the arm shaking and he comes back and just goes nuts. Right.
And everyone's like, yeah. And I, and I agree.
I think there's some aspect of that that's starting to happen in the independent insurance agency model is that it's like the big boys came in and technology came in. It's like, we're going to slap you around and you're not going to be around.
And we've seen pretty convincingly that's just not true. Yes, there's been many changes and, you know, impact that that's happened.
It'll continue to, but it's not like, you know, I think everyone thought it was going to be simply the travel agent. They're just going to disappear and die.
There's been some of that, but not at that level. And I think there's a new awakening that's happening.
It will continue to happen. I think the pure transactional agencies will really struggle.
I, I, there has to be a value add in some way, shape or form. And that feels like the movement, like the conversations that I see happening.
And this is another reason why I'm so excited to go to IOA this, this week is, you know, a lot of the presentations, a lot of the conversations leading up to this event have been about value, about injecting value at various points in the process. And I think that's exciting.
It's not transactional. It's not pure like automation stuff or just like insure tech.
It's how can we add a value here? How can we find a reduction in a touch point here that gives people time back? How do we, I mean that to me, that's this next level. And I think what really defines the difference between say a travel agent and insurance agent, which to me are two completely different, I don't think it's travel agents, but it's just two two completely different things like just because they both have the word agent in the name what they do or how they operate is even it's like apples and oranges yeah um by the way best scene in wwf history is wrestlemania 3 when andre the giant has hulk in the chokehold and he does the one arm drop and then the second arm drop.
And then the third arm drop he catches and then he spins around and he body slams. Andre the giant.
Oh, it's the best. I mean, I mean, you can watch that a thousand times.
It never gets old. It's the best.
It's a comeback. Alan Egbert asked Kodiak, the biggest wrestle uh wrestling fan in the insurance industry well if you do anything probably uh less than 20 years in the wrestling industry i'll have no idea what you're talking about but when i was a kid but when i was a kid i do remember that i do remember that yeah no i think again it's bad i mean again there's there certainly is an awakening and those agencies and agents that are going to be transactional the fact is we already we've seen it, they're going to be replaced.
And I think what's cool to me is to be able to take some of the big enhancements we've had in technology and to be able to free up time for human beings to really have that deeper level of sophistication and meaning and relationship. And you have two options.
You can just say, well, I want to play out or you can leverage it. And I think that the great agencies have got are starting to figure this out.

yeah if i'm gonna take anything from our conversation at a very tactical level it's that

you don't i feel like what we've said a bunch of times here is that you don't necessarily have to

have you want to almost avoid if you can the the shiny new thing and and just be amazing at

executing the fundamentals and add shiny pieces in places where you have so much muscle memory on the fundamentals that they've become second nature. But if you're struggling with situational management and you can't block off time properly, then adding a new thing, you know, no matter how shiny it is, is you're never going to be able to implement it.
And, and, and it's ultimately going to be a waste of time, energy, and resources. Yeah, I agree.
I mean, it comes on to, and this will be, this will be a plug for an upcoming event I'm doing in March. I'll go ahead and plug myself, but no, we're, we've got our pro fit networking event, March 11th through 13th.
And, and I will say this too, if you're ever interested in what Sitkins does, this is, is very likely our last public event just because we will be doing everything private with the clients that are part of that. And that's just, that's just a fact.
So I'm just telling you, if you're interested in like, wow, there's some stuff, they're really good agencies here that are doing really cool stuff. Definitely want to invite you to that.
But I'm going to be doing one presentation. We do a lot of roundtables and masterminding.
My presentation is simply hashtag execute because ideas are plentiful, right? And I love ideas and we need time to sift through ideas. But to execute is where I really want to focus on to actually have a tactical plan.
And I think one of the reasons we don't have a tactical plan is because we have too many goals. We don't really even know what we want.
We haven't actually taken the time to figure that out. And then we haven't figured out what are the leading indicators, not the lagging that are going to help us get there.
Maybe those very few things, we call them a vital few. And then are we keeping a scoreboard? Because so often we want to play a game, we don't know if we're winning or not.
I mean, I don't know about you, Ryan, but you're a sports guy. Would you like to play baseball? I mean, it's fun to go play with your friends.
Don't get me wrong, but did you have more fun when you're keeping score or not? No, I just played pickup with a bunch of 20 year olds the other day. And I was, I was wet in threes and definitely keeping score in my head.
Yeah. It's, I mean, if you're not, okay, it's probably not for you.
Right. But I mean, keeping score.
And then lastly is that ongoing accountability and, and, you know, it's just, we call it the culture and cadence of accountability. Just understanding this is important to me in the agency.
I need you, Ryan, to help me keep me accountable to this. Because left to my own accord, I'm going to go off in a thousand different directions.
I can give myself excuses. And one of the, we had a guy at our last camp.
We stayed up at the end and said, what's your one big takeaway? And he goes, I'm going to stop lying to myself. And it's a very powerful thing.
Like I've got to be a truth seeker and what I'm really doing isn't really creating a result that I want. And back, like you said, right at the beginning for the lifestyle I want, for the charity work that I want to give out for the vacations I want to take.
I don't care what it is, but just go deeper in those areas. And you'll probably be amazed at what can happen.
So let everyone know one more time, since it's a public event, where can they find out more information? Where can they sign up and the dates and all that? Yeah. So it's sitkins.com.
And if you go there, you'll see it, but sitkins.com slash pro fit net. It looks like profit net.
It stands for professional fitness. So sitkins.com slash pro profit net.
And it's March 11th to the 13th in Cape Coral, Florida at the beautiful Westin hotel. It's a great place.
Um, good place to be in March. I don't mind, I don't mind leaving the Midwest to go down there and hang out and buy the ocean either.
So it's pretty sure get your knowledge on. Well, dude, I, um, I mean, we could, we could keep going.
I love, I love chatting with you and catching up. And, you know, I have, you know, just from afar watching the work that you've been doing at Sickens, it just, it, you know, it, we're all kind of growing up in the industry and, and, and we've known each other for a long time.
And it's just, it really feels like you've hit your stride in this role in our space. You know, it probably won't be, you know, you'll, I know you'll continue to grow, but it's just, it's very nice to see a friend really doing work that they seem to enjoy and excel at.
And I know everyone who, who goes to ProFitNet is going to get a tremendous experience. So thanks for coming on and sharing your expertise and everything.
Where you personally, if someone wants to connect with you and just be in your network, where can they do that? I'll just give you one spot. I'm in a few places, but I'll give you one.
Just connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm probably the most active there.
Back to the vital few, I used to be on every single, and I still am. But it's like, what am I trying to do here? What I really want to accomplish for me is LinkedIn.
So just go to LinkedIn and search for me, Brent Kelly, you'll find me. And I post my weekly videos and podcasts are on there and different stuff.
So connect with me there. Awesome, man.
Well, hey, I wish you nothing but the best. And I can't wait for the next time we get to connect, man.
Yeah, likewise. And it's fun to watch you grow in this business too, man.
Well, hey, I wish you nothing but the best. And I can't wait for the next time we

get to connect, man. Yeah, likewise.
And it's fun to watch you grow in this business too, man.

Thanks, bro. All right, we're good.
Thank you. So close twice as many deals by this time next week.
Sound impossible? It's not.

With the one call close system, you'll stop chasing leads and start closing deals in one call.

This is the exact method we use to close 1,200 clients in under three years during the

pandemic.

No fluff, no endless follow-ups, just results fast.

Based in behavioral psychology and battle tested, the one call close system eliminates

excuses and gets the prospect saying yes yes more than you ever thought possible.

If you're ready to stop losing opportunities and start winning, visit MasterOfTheClosed.com.

That's MasterOfTheClosed.com.

Do it today.