RHS 031 - How Woody Brown Learned to Avoid the Insurance Celebrity Trap

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Speaker 4 Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the show. My name is Ryan Hanley, and I'm so glad that you are here with me.
And today, we have a guest who has a very interesting story.

Speaker 4 He's a former signed national touring rock musician, turned insurance agent, turned almost insurance celebrity.

Speaker 4 Yet he has this awesome moment where he steps back from that edge of doing the speaking scene and getting caught up in things that don't help grow his insurance agency.

Speaker 4 And while you still see him out, you know, on social media, you'll still see him occasionally at events and stuff, he's grinding every day to grow his business.

Speaker 4 And at this time, and maybe it's because I'm personally struggling with this at different times, you know, it's so easy to fall into that insurance celebrity trap. And Woody Brown did not do it.

Speaker 4 And besides just being an absolutely tremendous guy, an amazing agent, and just someone who I enjoy enjoy being able to book an hour with and just talk to,

Speaker 4 we talk about some things that I think are really going to help anyone who finds themselves getting asked to do anything that isn't a priority to their business. This is a great episode.

Speaker 4 You're going to love it. Woody's a tremendous guy.
If you're unfamiliar with him, you will be enamored by him immediately.

Speaker 4 And while, you know, he's focused on his business, I'm sure that he would love to connect with you. And I encourage you to do so.
And you get all that in this episode.

Speaker 4 But before we get to Woody, I want to talk real quick about something that

Speaker 4 announcement I had a few weeks ago: that the inside, my membership community, it's free now. It's free for agents.
It's free for insurance professionals to come in, engage.

Speaker 4 watch the videos, follow along on the journey, share their own, share resources. The inside is now free.

Speaker 4 And I actually did an episode of the newsletter, my YouTube show that comes out weekly where I describe why I did it.

Speaker 4 But the long story short is that community was always about helping people and keeping it behind a walled, a paywall was not doing that. So I encourage you to check out the inside.

Speaker 4 You can subscribe to the email list so that when new episodes come out, you get notified. Go to ryanhanley.com forward slash insider.
RyanHanley.com forward slash insider is where you begin.

Speaker 4 Again, all of it is free, so I'm not asking you to pay for anything. You can check it out.

Speaker 4 I just wanted to let you know, the listeners of this show, that the inside is now available to you and the Facebook group is available to you.

Speaker 4 And if it's something you're interested in, I encourage you to check it out. Otherwise, thank you for listening to this show.

Speaker 4 If you're listening for the first time, you're not subscribed and you love it, please subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And let's get on to Woody Brown.

Speaker 5 I feel like I haven't,

Speaker 5 I don't know, I haven't talked to you in like, feels like a long time, man.

Speaker 6 Well, that's, I think, because it hasn't been a long time, or it has been a long time, maybe is what I meant to say.

Speaker 6 And, you know, and that's kind of part of the reason why I wanted to do this podcast with you, dude. I just, you know what I mean?

Speaker 6 Like, you and I have always hit it off so well, and I love our conversations. And

Speaker 6 I've been doing stuff and you've been doing stuff. And

Speaker 6 what better way to schedule a conversation with a friend than to record that, record it

Speaker 6 in case you say something cool?

Speaker 5 Yeah, man, I agree. I agree.
It's a

Speaker 5 good excuse to get it on the calendar and make it official, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 5 So what's up, man? I mean, what are you doing?

Speaker 5 Phew, man. You know, just

Speaker 5 living the insurance dream, dude.

Speaker 5 I mean, gosh, I wish there was something like new and innovative to report here, but just kind of doing

Speaker 5 what I've been doing, you know?

Speaker 6 I do know, and that's what I've kind of seen just from, you know, obviously we're connected in all the, all the socials. So,

Speaker 6 and that's part of the reason why I was so like excited for our conversation, because if there's something that I have

Speaker 6 If there's something that I've become more aware of now that I own my own agency, right?

Speaker 6 Like now that I'm making these decisions, now that I'm looking at these things from like, this is how I pay my bills standpoint

Speaker 6 or will, I guess, since I haven't sold the policy yet, but will pay my bills.

Speaker 6 You know, I

Speaker 6 look at you and I see somebody, and this is, you know, this is just correct me where I'm wrong here, but like,

Speaker 6 I feel like there were a couple years there, like agency nation years, where you were like starting to come on the scene and you were, you know, all over the socials and that kind of stuff.

Speaker 6 And then like the last year or maybe more, it feels like, not that you've pulled back, but like maybe, maybe that's a, maybe that's a first estimate. You have to let me know.

Speaker 6 And just have gotten to the work of like growing and operating your agency.

Speaker 6 And I'm just interested in that because I think. so many people are chasing shiny objects, which is incredibly easy to do.

Speaker 6 And to a certain extent, it feels like you've been able to avoid some of that.

Speaker 6 And I'm just really interested in how, why, what, you know, all of everything I just, that really long preface with like nine questions in it.

Speaker 5 Go. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Dude, completely fair assessment and

Speaker 5 truthfully, like a great observation, really. I mean, in one hand, you know, I,

Speaker 5 you know, I kind of feel at times like sort of bad because I don't kind of interact with all the friends and that we've made over the years. Um,

Speaker 5 starting, you know, with the that first Agency Nation conference that I went to, you know, the Star Wars

Speaker 5 GIF or GIF or whatever you want to call it, uh,

Speaker 5 you know, Agency Nation conference made so many friends. And in a way, like, I think early on, it was super helpful to me because I was new to the industry.

Speaker 5 Um, it was great to like share ideas and stuff like that. But then, what I found was: like you said, there's a lot of like shiny object stuff out there.
There's, you know, different

Speaker 5 platforms and different agency management systems and different like widgets that you can use and all this. Almost to the point for me,

Speaker 5 who is a person that gets easily distracted anyway,

Speaker 5 I was noticing that, okay, you know, am I taking on too much of that kind of stuff

Speaker 5 just as an agent? you know, like,

Speaker 5 am I,

Speaker 5 is it, I started noticing that like

Speaker 5 kind of being focused on that, the management of the agency piece really was something that was kind of just distracting me from the end goal

Speaker 5 as like an agent, right?

Speaker 5 So I kind of had to pull back on that. And then in terms of just like the full-on interacting

Speaker 5 with agents and stuff meant like I started getting really in the weeds with, you know, putting out a lot of stuff on my own, whether that's video or you know, I started a podcast for fun last year,

Speaker 5 you know,

Speaker 5 that has nothing to do with insurance. Um, and

Speaker 5 you know, man, that takes a lot, and then just normal, you know, man, as a parent at the ages our kids are, man, it's like every single second of the day is just used.

Speaker 5 And so, I had to, in order to like do more, you know,

Speaker 5 make, you know, make money, essentially sell more policies, I had to shave some time and attention in certain areas. And one of those was like, you know,

Speaker 5 I don't know, the Twitter feed and that kind of thing. So I've, I've done this thing where in the past, I would say like year, year and a half,

Speaker 5 maybe even closer to two, slowly but surely kind of turning off notifications and

Speaker 5 on the social platforms and stuff so that I don't just get bogged down in that because, you know, I'm a, I'm an ambitious dude, much like yourself. And

Speaker 5 I mean, dude, I do have a love for helping other people any way that I can in terms of within our industry. But at some point, I just had to be like, okay, like selfishly,

Speaker 5 what is going to help me reach my family goals, our financial goals?

Speaker 5 quickest like what what path what's the path of least resistance basically

Speaker 5 and ultimately it was, you know, kind of backing off a little bit on that kind of end of things, because, you know, as much as I love

Speaker 5 telling people what kind of camera I use or all that kind of stuff, or even just like sharing ideas, sometimes it just becomes like another job, you know? And I say that like in a way that

Speaker 5 I don't want to discourage people from reaching out, dude, I love meeting a rant, like this agent

Speaker 5 who lives in, I want to say Louisiana, just reached out to me the other day. And it was just cool, you know, that we can connect from other states

Speaker 5 and kind of bounce ideas off of one another.

Speaker 5 And so I dig that. I really do.
And I definitely don't want to discourage anybody from doing that. It's just, I kind of see from the outside looking in,

Speaker 5 there's a...

Speaker 5 lot of folks that,

Speaker 5 I don't know, man, I don't know. For me, it wasn't, it just, I had to take a, I had to kind of of like back off a little bit and just concentrate on just kicking ass, dude.

Speaker 5 You know, I mean, like, I do.

Speaker 6 I, dude, I, I know, um,

Speaker 6 I, to be honest with you, a big part of why I wanted to talk to you is because I'm, this is going to sound weird saying, but I mean it in like the purest sense.

Speaker 6 Like, I'm proud of you for making that decision because,

Speaker 6 you know, these are decisions like I'm starting to make in my own life. And you know, like, I am like a, I'm like a crackhead when it comes to creating and sharing and distributing, connecting.

Speaker 6 And like, I just, I can't help myself.

Speaker 6 And at the same time, I'm looking, you know, I've been creating a lot of stuff that doesn't have to do with Rogue right now because I'm waiting for some paperwork stuff to come through, but like, but it's the day that stuff comes through and the day I'm like have an appointment, pointing carrier and my license is good and everything's ready to go.

Speaker 6 Like,

Speaker 6 I'm not going to be able to do that stuff, not nearly as much.

Speaker 6 And, and, and, and it's that whole insurance celebrity thing. I was talking to someone who's a friend of mine that, that I, I really care about her success.

Speaker 6 And I said to her the other day,

Speaker 6 like,

Speaker 6 you are about to be catapulted into another level of insurance celebrityhood

Speaker 6 because she's smart and outgoing and gets what's going on. And it's very easy to connect with her.
And so people are, that's going to happen. You know what I mean?

Speaker 6 People are going to wanna know what she has to to say and what she's, and all that. And I just said, be very, very careful about

Speaker 6 becoming an insurance celebrity because it is not all that it's cracked. Don't get me wrong.
There are certainly benefits, but those benefits come with absolute trade-offs, absolute trade-offs. And

Speaker 6 as I'm trying to

Speaker 6 move out of that space and to see you, and again, I want to get for just for the audience who may not be, who may not know you yet, like

Speaker 6 just some timetables, but like to see you kind of, you kind of walked up to that precipice of like, if you kept going and kept sharing and creating, you would have become an insurance celebrity.

Speaker 6 And you stepped back. And I have so much respect for that because you didn't like step back and like go into a hole.
You stepped back and started, you know, kept building your agency.

Speaker 6 So in 20, Elevate 2017, which is the Star Wars gift conference, which I challenge any of you MFers to do 57 gifts to open up a conference.

Speaker 5 Literally, one of the best presentations I've ever seen. I mean, that, I don't know if it's because I'm a Star Wars nerd, but like, I was like, instantly sold.
I'm like, man, this guy

Speaker 5 gets it, man. Whatever he's about to tell me, hey, are we joining a cult? Whatever it is.

Speaker 6 Oh, my God.

Speaker 5 But.

Speaker 6 So, where were you in your career back in 2017 at that elevate?

Speaker 6 And then, kind of, you know, right now we'll be able to kind of do the math, but just give us the timetables a little bit or maybe give us a timetable of where you were in 2017.

Speaker 6 And then at what point did you say, I don't want to go down this rabbit hole any further. I'm going to step back just to give some people some context.

Speaker 5 Yeah, some context. So like 2017, I was still relatively green as an agent.
I had a couple of years under my belt. I was.

Speaker 5 in a lot of ways not necessarily doing anything that I would consider like innovative really. Truly, I think that Elevate

Speaker 5 and

Speaker 5 just like that time I had,

Speaker 5 you know, and then conversations and all this kind of stuff, meeting people like Nick and like Joey and

Speaker 5 just Sydney. And then like seeing that kind of catapulted me into like, hey, man, I'm creative.
This is something that I want to add into my

Speaker 5 legacy as an insurance agent. And so,

Speaker 5 but I was still really green. You know, I mean, I had like,

Speaker 5 let's see, so

Speaker 5 2017. God believe it or not, man.
Let's see.

Speaker 5 Yeah. So like a couple years.

Speaker 5 I've been to other insurance conferences.

Speaker 5 And this was one of those that I was like, this seems like something different. And it definitely was.
So that was refreshing.

Speaker 5 So that's kind of when I got the bug in to kind of

Speaker 5 make more of an impact just on the local level kind of, I mean, in Georgia as something that is different.

Speaker 5 You know, I told this guy that I was talking to the other day: my ultimate goal was when someone types in insurance in the state of Georgia, selfishly, I want it to be my face that they see, my voice that they hear, and then, you know, I want them to hear, see, read, and it's me, you know?

Speaker 5 So I was trying to figure out ways to do that. And then one of them, of course, was just pumping out a ton of content.

Speaker 5 So then 20, I guess, 18, I decided to, you know, after being inspired by all of the insurance video, you know, folks, but ultimately, too, just like Casey Neistat, decided, you know, what?

Speaker 5 Uh, because I'm one of those people, man, I can say all day long, I need to get in shape, or I don't need that double cheeseburger or whatever, and that's all great.

Speaker 5 But if I don't sign up for a race, you know, or I don't, you know,

Speaker 5 pay a ton of money to do something like it's

Speaker 5 it's not, I don't have the same rate of success. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Right. So

Speaker 5 I have to come up with something relatively crazy and lofty

Speaker 5 and then declare it publicly so that I, you know, at the end of the day, I'm going to embarrass myself and look like a turd if I don't complete it because I already told everybody I was going to do it.

Speaker 5 So that's what I did in 2018. I basically said, hey, every single day this year, I'm going to do a daily vlog.

Speaker 5 And one of the reasons I wanted to do that was to like push myself to be able to edit and complete things faster so that once I knew that that was that that daily vlog was over I'd be able to just like knock out things videos super super quick and then I you know just wanted to get better at it better at the storytelling just having to create

Speaker 5 I want I don't you know it sounds bad to say something out of nothing but I mean a story every single day that is at least somewhat entertaining or creative it man it was, it's hard.

Speaker 5 You know, I mean, it's quite a task. But

Speaker 5 so after doing all that and taking the time to do it, you know, of course, I started, you know, being asked to speak at certain things.

Speaker 5 And I've, I'm the kind of guy, and I think, Ryan, you're the, you're, I think a lot of our close agent friends are like this as well.

Speaker 5 And I think that's probably one of the reasons why we all get along so well. I end up saying yes to a lot of stuff.

Speaker 5 And because I'm creative, I always have like all these cool ideas of how to make X, Y, and Z better. And like, oh, yeah, I can do that.

Speaker 5 And then maybe I have like too much confidence in a lot of ways, but I say yes to a lot of things. And because of that, a lot of things end up suffering a little bit, you know?

Speaker 5 So after a while, I started realizing, well, okay.

Speaker 5 I started kind of getting into that zone of quote unquote insurance celebrity. And really, man, it came down to one thing.
Like, I had to ask myself, hey, man, is this my ultimate goal?

Speaker 5 Do I want to, because if it is i mean i can public speak i you know some of the one of the carriers that we represent sometimes uh

Speaker 5 you know asks me to come and speak in different states so i know i can do it and i like a crowd and i like that energy you know as a as a former lead singer of a rock band right i mean i feed off of that's like my

Speaker 5 I don't know, it's the best, right? So obviously, like, I started liking that, but then I had to ask myself, okay,

Speaker 5 is this what I want to do? Is this my ultimate goal? What is the longevity of something like this? And I just kind of figured out that for me, it wasn't necessarily the route that I wanted to take.

Speaker 5 You know, like I said before, don't get me wrong, dude. I freaking love attention.
You know, I walk into a mortgage office. I love it.
You know,

Speaker 5 I walk in front of a crowd. I love that.

Speaker 5 But I just knew that, like,

Speaker 5 it just wasn't what my ultimate goal was. Now, there's a lot of folks that are out there that I think maybe that might be their ultimate goal.
And that's awesome, man.

Speaker 5 Like, hopefully, they don't think,

Speaker 5 because I think here's the danger. Truthfully, like, I've been thinking about this for a couple of weeks, man, because like the hardest part is

Speaker 5 feeling,

Speaker 5 you know, not having that attention, not having that, you know,

Speaker 5 spotlight in any way.

Speaker 5 And really, like, over the years, I haven't really changed much of

Speaker 5 what I've done in terms of pushing out content and being

Speaker 5 present online in terms of like my audience. And I think that's the big thing too, man.

Speaker 5 I started realizing too that there's a lot of folks that are making content, but I started realizing that the audience wasn't necessarily who's going to be putting food on the table for them right now.

Speaker 5 And so when I started figuring that out for myself, I thought, you know, like, I'm, am I making videos or content for other insurance agents or am I making this for somebody who is going to ask me to look at their stuff?

Speaker 5 Because A, they like me or they think I'm goofy or I know what I'm talking about and or no one else is doing it, right? So that is the direction that I took. And then because of that, man, I mean,

Speaker 5 it sounds relatively cliche, but I've just been, I've been so busy because of that, like reaping those rewards and managing my current book of business but then just having lofty goals of growing it and stuff it's uh

Speaker 5 it you know it takes a lot out of that so I knew that the smartest decision for me

Speaker 5 for now was to take the path of hey man you're an entrance agent

Speaker 5 you know

Speaker 5 push hard on the on the audience that you're going after in terms of your target like I think that's the thing like I had to re-kind of of focus my target.

Speaker 5 Not that I don't, I don't really necessarily believe that I was ever really making a lot of stuff for

Speaker 5 the insurance community. I think it's just, you know, it was a little, you know, different, new.
Hey, who's this guy?

Speaker 5 You know, videos are kind of cool or whatever. And so I got a lot of attention for that.
And then,

Speaker 5 you know, more folks started,

Speaker 5 I guess, doing video and stuff.

Speaker 5 You know, I like to think of myself as maybe the 21st

Speaker 5 person to watch in 2020.

Speaker 5 You know,

Speaker 5 maybe 25th. I'll take a couple of slots down.
But, you know, like that kind of thing, man. You know, like, do I take that sort of stuff personally? I mean, dude, I'm a competitive person.
Right.

Speaker 5 So initially, I'm just like, hey, bro, why am I not on the list? Guys, hey, you know,

Speaker 5 but I don't take it personally because, you know what, man, like.

Speaker 5 Like I said, man, the past couple of years, I've had my head down just working, man.

Speaker 6 So if I'm not creating, I'm you know, well, I hope that you won't take it personally because there's easily. So, that was not a ranking, first of all.

Speaker 6 For everyone listening at home, that was not a ranking, that was

Speaker 6 Cass and I just coming up with some names and people. We just wanted

Speaker 6 to let me back up on that because I know you're not giving me a hard time, but I think this is an important conversation because I, for a different reason, for a different reason.

Speaker 6 Because, you know, one,

Speaker 6 I know you know that I, you know, it's not personal, whatever. And,

Speaker 6 and, and, and it's more just like, like, I'll be honest with you, like, I have mentioned your name before. There were people on there I never talked about before.
That was part of it.

Speaker 6 And I wanted to get some fresh, some fresh, there were some, there were some names people had said before, but like, there were some fresh names too.

Speaker 6 And I actually think we're going to do like another

Speaker 6 because it's just about connecting people. That was all it was really about.

Speaker 6 It was like, that's why I did the whole thing with like, go to my page and connect on LinkedIn so that you can connect with all these people.

Speaker 5 because i think um i just wanted people bouncing off each other but i also like that that makes you and that makes you a little competitive maybe you'll actually work now you know yeah sure yeah exactly man it

Speaker 5 makes me kind of like it makes me like look i'm i'm giving you a hard time i i just thought that that would be kind of funny but like

Speaker 5 you know

Speaker 5 One thing I love about the industry and what I love to celebrate, man, is if we especially, no offense to the captives that are listening, but especially on the independent side well let me break this down too man because there's some captive agent on a facebook group yesterday that was trying to it was just funny but in my opinion and again this is coming from outside of the agency there's a lot of things that attract me toward the independent channel and one of them is man you're just automatically born an underdog right yeah because you don't have this multi billion with a b dollar marketing that's just been around for so long backing you up right you don't just like show up on day one you're wearing your red stuff and then that's it, right?

Speaker 5 We don't get that luxury.

Speaker 5 And so because of that, like, I feel like as a group of agents, and then to include the cap is for sure, but like as independent agents, like if one of us does awesome, then it just helps build the brand of independent agents, man.

Speaker 5 I agree. And so like, I love it.
It fires me up. I will say, for me, another thing that made me kind of like back off, man, was like,

Speaker 5 for me to

Speaker 5 so one of the other things I did was I started learning from people outside of the industry yeah started seeking those people out because I wanted to

Speaker 5 be

Speaker 5 you know

Speaker 5 superly like just well-rounded in the you know business type concepts and then two like

Speaker 5 it you know it becomes harder and harder to

Speaker 5 like find the folks not this

Speaker 5 is a i gotta gotta be sensitive here because I don't want it to sound like I'm saying that these people do not exist in the industry or anything.

Speaker 5 What I'm, what I'm trying to say is, like, I wanted to be quote unquote mentored by folks that I felt like I had things to learn from. And now, again, it sounds like I'm being a complete

Speaker 5 look at Woody.

Speaker 6 If people have listened to my show for any period of time, they've been offended enough that that doesn't even come close to the bar of offending them.

Speaker 5 So I think everyone completely understands where you're coming from.

Speaker 6 And dude, look,

Speaker 6 one of my best friends and mentors,

Speaker 6 and I talk about him all the time, is

Speaker 6 a guy by the name of Marcus Sheridan, right? Like he's rugged, but he has nothing to do with the insurance industry. I mean, he's spoke at events, but he doesn't know.

Speaker 6 a policy form from a from an accord form you know what i mean like he has no idea that was so nerdy i'm sorry that was that was you know what i mean he has no idea and i talk to him all the time another one of my good buddies who pushes me constantly is a guy by the name of matt davison out he owns his own pr firm in buffalo new york he doesn't know anything about insurance and i i constantly am calling him and asking him for feedback because i think you're 100 on pace another guy who's a great example of this is jeff roy jeff roy um up in canada

Speaker 6 he he takes more inputs from outside our industry and and brings them into the industry than anybody I know.

Speaker 6 Like he's constantly reaching into other spaces, find the best of what they have and bring them in. And dude, I think it's a testament to you trying to be the best you can.

Speaker 5 I don't think it's a knock on our space at all. And I hope, too, that anyone listening doesn't think that I think that I can't learn anything from them.
I definitely didn't mean that, dude.

Speaker 5 I literally live my life in a way that... that I truly believe that I can learn something from everyone.
And so I don't mean that.

Speaker 5 I just mean that if I had to like distill it down to, you know, hey, can I learn how to, again, where I'm going to go back to Star Wars here?

Speaker 5 If I could, can I learn how to be a Jedi, but just like walking

Speaker 5 and hanging out with Luke Skower?

Speaker 5 Yeah, sure. Like old school Luke Skower.

Speaker 5 Can I learn, but should I like seek out Yoda, right? Like the level there of mastery is just different, right? So

Speaker 5 that's kind of like what, and plus, man, I like to think just like Jeff Jeff and like all these, there, because there's so many people in the industry that are just so innovative, dude, that they just blow my mind, man.

Speaker 5 And of course, like my mind's going completely. Seth,

Speaker 5 Jeff Roy, I mean, all these people that are doing, frankly, amazing things for the industry while simultaneously just killing it for the, you know, for their business as well.

Speaker 5 It's just fascinating to me.

Speaker 5 I just, you know, I guess this is probably the longest winded way to say, like, I just had to kind of like,

Speaker 5 yeah, man, just concentrate selfishly on

Speaker 5 being better at what I do

Speaker 5 and focus in on that. I mean, you know, my,

Speaker 5 you know, super blessed that my wife is now a stay-at-home mom. And, you know, that is also one of the things that weighed on me.
It's like, man, I don't, you know.

Speaker 5 hey babe i know you want to you know not work at your job anymore because you know you're not super passionate about it you want to be a stay-at-home mom I've got to go

Speaker 5 you know meet with XYZ yeah insurance agent and teach them how to make a video I'm gonna go do this free speaking gig for a carrier and and yeah right

Speaker 5 exactly and so it's kind of like once you get to a certain thing you gotta know your worth too you know

Speaker 5 and I just feel like my time And when I say time, I don't just mean with money-making activities. And I know you know that.

Speaker 5 I mean like my time away from the family is, it's the most expensive time, you know? And so in order for me to make that sacrifice, it absolutely has to be worthwhile.

Speaker 5 And my love for the industry 100% doesn't trump my love for my family, you know?

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 there's no doubt

Speaker 5 about that.

Speaker 6 There's no doubt. I, you know, I felt it.
It's wild.

Speaker 6 So, you know, you know, I used to travel like three, three, three times, three weeks a month for a long time for, for a lot of my, especially my older son's life.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 when I stepped away from the industry for that period of time, that was because I couldn't get on airplane. Like my wife literally said, like, you have to be home for a bunch of reasons.
And,

Speaker 6 and, and so I didn't get on an airplane from March of 2019 until last week at IAOA. So it's the longest time, probably almost a decade that I haven't flown, flown away, flown away from my family.

Speaker 6 We've taken a couple of trips together. Um,

Speaker 6 and it was wild. Like

Speaker 5 it,

Speaker 6 you know, having spent all that time every day, like there was part of me that, you know, it always feels good to get a little bit of like, I'm just, you know,

Speaker 6 if I want to go sit over here, do whatever, or listen to, you know what I mean? Like, no one's like, that, that, that, that, that.

Speaker 5 Yeah, dude. But if you just want to go to the bathroom for a second.
Yeah, yeah, like, God is kids.

Speaker 6 And I just, the door is closed. Like, come on.
Yeah. Um,

Speaker 6 like that felt good for like a minute and then all of a sudden i was like

Speaker 6 man like that i miss i miss my crew like like it and and that's a big part of why i started a rogue was i wanted to own my own destiny like i never wanted anyone to tell me i had to get on an airplane right and i'm not saying i was ever like you know, I was ever like forced.

Speaker 5 But, you know, there's obligations.

Speaker 6 Like, if you, you know, there's, there's obligations that you have to go through. And I never wanted that to be the case.

Speaker 6 So it was just wild, like you said, that nothing's more valuable than your family time. I think that feels like a big part of it.

Speaker 6 Like it's so easy to lose that, especially when you have been cooped up or, you know, cooped up is probably a poor choice of words, but when you have been home and you haven't, no one's wanted you, no one's ever wanted you to travel to them and talk before.

Speaker 6 And now all of a sudden they do. And then you get on, you get out in the airplane system and you're walking around the airport to do whatever the hell you want.
You can eat whatever you want.

Speaker 6 oh i want a beer at two o'clock in the afternoon on a tuesday sure i'm speaking why not right like

Speaker 6 it sounds so crazy but like you know that freedom it is it is tough so so my question for you is and oh i want to just clarify everyone you mentioned nick joey and sydney before for those listening at home that is nick ayers joey g and gola and sydney row

Speaker 6 sorry i'm taking notes so i'm interested in i'm really interested in do because i think i think this is something that people struggle with more than they talk about because any

Speaker 6 agent, anyone involved in our ecosystem who starts to do something new and not wrongly so, people start to reach out to them, right?

Speaker 5 And it's cool.

Speaker 6 It's great. Like I'm happy that our industry has gotten to the point where we're so willing to share.
That's great. I think a lot of people struggle with this and I'm super interested in like.

Speaker 6 as much as you can describe like the moment you knew like you've you've talked about it at a high level but like what was that moment was there an it was there a something happened an event you came home from uh you know a soccer game you missed or whatever that like you're just like you know what i have to do this like what was there a turning moment that you can really pin this on man you know so i'm also super fortunate in that like a mentor that i have uh extremely close by is Clayton Rhodes, the owner of the agency.

Speaker 5 You know, we were buddies in college. He's actually younger than me.
So it's, you know, kind of weird sometimes having like a younger boss.

Speaker 5 But he, dude, he is one of those guys that can like approach a situation with like almost no,

Speaker 5 like he can put aside like an emotional tie, right? So if I come to him and I, because I'm also a person that like, I like to assess

Speaker 5 my progress.

Speaker 5 And so like, I, if I find myself like not being happy with whatever X, Y, Z result is to say, okay, let's figure out like what's going on that that can make that result be closer to the goal.

Speaker 5 And so he's a great person to like go to. And so multiple times a year, this happens, but you know, probably pretty close to like November of one of those years in the past.

Speaker 5 I kind of, that's generally whenever I'm planning for the next year. And I like, asked him out of lunch, started, you know, kind of talking about like, you know, man, like,

Speaker 5 you know, what do you think about all this kind of stuff?

Speaker 5 And like, I'm kind of frustrated because my growth isn't as fast as i want it to be in terms of you know policy count or whatever what are some of the things and so he just kind of like pointed me back in the direction of kind of looking inward and kind of thinking about all the activities you know that you're doing and figure out which ones get you to that goal and which ones distract you from that goal ultimately it was that word distraction that like at first it kind of pissed me off off because I'm like, hey, man, you know, internally, I'm like, you know, I got defensive internally, right?

Speaker 5 Like, I'm not being distracted, you know, I'm still successful. I'm still one of the top agents in the agency for our carriers.

Speaker 5 And then I started thinking about it, you know, I kind of took a breath, took a beat, and started thinking, like,

Speaker 5 and damn it, he's right, right? So, like, what are like, if you, as simplistic as you can, like, boil down,

Speaker 5 you got to figure out what your goals are. And my goal was, did I wanted to be the, the,

Speaker 5 I guess, the the ideal versus goal the ideal is just to be like

Speaker 5 the most successful international of all time but like backing that down it's like I really just want to grow on a you know really consistent basis year over year in such a way that like I'm setting myself and my our family up for just a really awesome future you know

Speaker 5 whatever that that means and whatever that entails for everyone but that's kind of like what my goal is and then i went i kind of dissected everything that i was

Speaker 5 even just like, hey, man, do I need to go to that networking meeting anymore? Does that like, let me break it down, let me break that data down. Is it, is there,

Speaker 5 what, what value am I getting out of that? Not just like, you know, hey, man, how many leads did you get from that video?

Speaker 5 You know, we can dive into that if you want. It's a pet peeve, but like,

Speaker 5 like,

Speaker 5 not just in terms of the money making activity, but what value? What was everything? What were the values of all that? You know, do I enjoy speaking? Absolutely.

Speaker 5 Can I make that, can I kind of back off of that a little bit and do that? So, really, it was just kind of like that sort of talk.

Speaker 5 It was the trigger for me to start looking inward and looking inward hard because it was sort of like a, I was bitching in a way about like not being happy about my results that year.

Speaker 5 And it was, you know, like, hey, man, well, I mean,

Speaker 5 obviously, it's stuff that we've all heard from every and read in every sales book ever, but like, look inward, man. What are the activities that you're doing?

Speaker 5 Have that, you know, what can you do differently there? What's distracting you from making it to your goal, you know?

Speaker 6 Yeah, nothing changes if nothing changes, right?

Speaker 5 Right, man. And so, um,

Speaker 5 you know, I guess like the ultimate unfortunate sort of side effect of all that is, you know,

Speaker 5 I don't think it's hurt the relationships that I have because, man, for whatever reason, the sort of especially the core tight-knit group of, you know, call it the 5 a.m.

Speaker 5 club or whatever, man, I think we're friends, brothers, sisters for life.

Speaker 5 You know, I don't think, I don't think unless, you know, they got insulted by anything that I've said today thus far, I don't think there's anything that's going to like change that.

Speaker 5 Now, we just don't speak as often, but sometimes I take that as, man, that's awesome because I feel like they're probably busy doing it. You know, it's that old thing that my dad used to say.

Speaker 5 You can either be, you can, you can,

Speaker 5 oh man, what did he say? It's like, basically, like, you can tell everybody you're the best, or you can just like be the best, you know? So if you're too busy talking about how you're the best,

Speaker 5 then you know, you're probably, you might not be the best, you know? Yeah,

Speaker 6 I'm, I'm completely with you on that. I would, I echo your 5 a.m.
club thing.

Speaker 6 I've, I've kind of gotten off of Twitter a little bit and certainly off of Instagram a lot

Speaker 6 because there were two places that were taking up a lot of my time that wasn't producing results for me. You know what I mean?

Speaker 6 Like for me, I make my money up until Rogue launches, you know, it was, it was consulting and speaking gigs and mostly speaking gigs. And those came from Facebook and LinkedIn.
That was it.

Speaker 6 So I had to make those choices. And then once Rogue launches, that'll come down.
And dude, I think, you know, I think to your point,

Speaker 6 and this is, you know, I think this is where on this topic, I'd like to cut this because I have some other questions for you. And I think we've made it up quite a bit.

Speaker 6 But your point that like, once you make a real connection with somebody, a real connection, you could not see them for five years. It doesn't matter.

Speaker 6 The next time you see them is going to be if you saw them yesterday.

Speaker 6 And I feel that way very much with people in the 5 a.m. Club.
I think we came together at a time when all of us, for whatever reason, just needed that venue.

Speaker 6 Like for just whatever reason, that group of 20, 30 people, however many people it is,

Speaker 6 just everyone seemed to need each other. And for all different reasons.
And everyone gave to that group of people.

Speaker 6 And even though, you you know different people have kind of come and gone and and other people you know some people don't contribute as much myself included like

Speaker 6 I see you know I saw I saw Carrie Reynolds who I haven't really communicated with that with with that much for no other reason than I just have been doing other things saw her at IOA it was big hug how you doing what's going on I mean it was it was great and like same thing with Crowley same thing with you know whoever so man I think I think you're right on the button and to be honest with you I think when people see you grinding and doing what you need to do to take care of the things you need to take care of i don't i they respect you more for that than if you're showing up like no one wants you to show up and then be paying a price on the back end for showing up because that that defeats the purpose right

Speaker 6 so um

Speaker 6 so yeah man i think you're i think you're right on the button and i'm just happy to hear that so you know i want to be respectful of your time because you are an operating agent you know world dominating um in the fullest extent but i do but you know just to kind of hear kind of quick hitter session, like what kind of stuff is working for you, man?

Speaker 6 For the people that are listening, like, you know, what kind of stuff are you doing? Like, what does your day-to-day look like? Like, are you grinding on? You know what I mean? Like, what's happening

Speaker 5 to happen? For sure, man. So,

Speaker 5 man, one of the things that

Speaker 5 I think has really, really just been amazing is

Speaker 5 that weekly Facebook video show, man, ask Woody Wednesday.

Speaker 5 You wouldn't believe, like, it either entices people that I haven't heard from it in forever to reach out or people will share it with their audience or their page basically.

Speaker 5 And so like their friends will reach out.

Speaker 5 It's been a huge, huge piece of it all. I mean, looking over, like, I track everything from,

Speaker 5 you know, where, where are referrals coming from?

Speaker 5 And I mean, just a large majority, you know, and it took time.

Speaker 5 That's the thing I think that happens out there, man, in the, the, in the, in the world of insurance and stuff, whether it's Instagram or Facebook or YouTube or anything.

Speaker 5 A year, 12 months is not enough time for it to build the foundation of, you know, I'm just now seeing the holy crap, my inbox is literally full of referrals. And it's like, where'd you find us?

Speaker 5 Facebook, Ask Who Do Wednesday. Website, you know, like it's just now starting to get to that point where it's just like,

Speaker 5 you know.

Speaker 5 But in addition to that, like sort of new school stuff, again, one of my favorite things in the concept that you kind of talked about

Speaker 5 not too long ago is the brackish waterman. Like as much as I am a proponent of video and technology, just because it's such an easy way to get out in front of people,

Speaker 5 I still love

Speaker 5 the old school face-to-face showing up. And so I've been really concentrating on developing a new relationship or having a coffee

Speaker 5 at least once a week week with somebody new. And then same thing with

Speaker 5 kind of just like rekindling or just like maintaining a current relationship once a week.

Speaker 5 And so that pushes me to, again, like if you think about it sounds like, oh, one new person a week, that's not a lot. But if you think about it, man, it's like,

Speaker 5 you know, when you put yourself out there like that, sometimes it kind of

Speaker 5 you got to dig deep and you have to force yourself to meet somebody new.

Speaker 5 And one per week, I have 52 new people in a year, man, that you're going to see activity, you're going to see a lift there, right? So for sure.

Speaker 5 That kind of stuff, getting back out there face to face and again, assessing what relationships are working and really designing. Here's the thing, man.

Speaker 5 Here's another thing that I've kind of like come to the conclusion of after six years in the industry.

Speaker 5 You have to rub shoulders with people. You have to be in the same room with them.

Speaker 5 But I think like for me, what I figured out was I was forcing myself to be like super nice you know, a mortgage person that was ultimately like the biggest douche of all time. Right.

Speaker 5 But I'm like, well, I mean, I could get a referral from them. So I was like, early on, you don't have necessarily the luxury to kind of design

Speaker 5 who you're being around necessarily like you do a couple of years in. But I started figuring out like, man, what if I approach it like this? What if I approach it in terms of like, I'm not like a huge

Speaker 5 way after late after hours kind of guy? You know, I'm not going to have like seven or eight whiskeys and then just, you know, start over like I'm past that part of my life.

Speaker 5 And so I don't necessarily want to focus on those kind of activities.

Speaker 5 So I started like coming up with these ideas of sort of, again, designing the interactions, the networking atmosphere based on my interests, and then finding people that had similar interests.

Speaker 5 So then now I don't have to force a relationship. We're already like,

Speaker 5 it's way better to work with and/or alongside people that you would consider friends, it just makes it so much easier, you know. Like, I'm not going to force somebody that

Speaker 5 has never seen Star Wars, doesn't like that genre, like has floor seats, you know, to

Speaker 5 the

Speaker 5 Atlanta Hawks or whatever. I'm not going to be like, hey, man, I don't know if you're interested, but I got an extra ticket to IMAX for the new Star Wars movie.
They don't give a shit now.

Speaker 5 But if I can find somebody that does, now we're like connecting on that level we're able to like hey man we're actually like quote unquote working but we're watching star wars or hey you like the braves too we're at the braves game together you know like doing it in a way that and it's probably like everybody listening probably like duh we've been doing that forever but for me personally it was a big eye-opening um revelation really because i was forcing myself putting myself outside of like my normal personality and forcing myself to kind of like work with people that, you know, if I just pulled it down, hey, is this somebody that I would like actually hang out with outside of a professional need to yeah and if the answer i know brilliant you know i think you're dude i think i think what you said you know you're designing the activities for like the life and the person that you are versus what you what maybe people think you should do or or is the common thought dude i think that's an i think that's an incredibly important thought that i think most people get that wrong and and myself included like

Speaker 6 that is,

Speaker 6 I feel like as I've matured into business, this has been one of the hardest lessons for me to learn because you read some article and you're like, oh, that, that sounds dope.

Speaker 6 Like, I'm going to go do that. And it, but it's not you.
You know what I mean? It's not, it's not who you are. Like,

Speaker 6 um,

Speaker 6 and and and and then it, then you get friction and then you're like, well, this should be working. Or, you know, how come this works for these three people doesn't work for me?

Speaker 6 Because it's not who you are. And the fact that you've had the self-awareness, which I think is really the key to a lot of what our conversation is today, is that you have self-awareness.
And,

Speaker 6 you know, when I, if, if, if you could go, it's not the same podcast feed, but if you go to the show that I did for Agency Nation, you can listen to when I interviewed Woody the first time talking about your career as a musician.

Speaker 6 You had, I think.

Speaker 6 Self-awareness was an incredibly important part of your career there and the moves that you made and the move coming to insurance, understanding who you wanted to be as a dad, as a husband, that kind of stuff.

Speaker 6 Like, you know what I mean? I think your self-awareness, and you probably don't see this, it's a superpower for you, most likely.

Speaker 6 If you were to stack up your superpowers, it would definitely be on that list because you know, I just hear you talking and I'm going, this dude, you know, Woody Woody's looking at himself at a level that I don't know most people go to.

Speaker 6 And it is a huge part of your success. And it's an incredible lesson for anyone listening.

Speaker 5 Well, I appreciate it, man. I just, you know,

Speaker 5 in all the different things that I've done, I've always been, I always hit my stride or I've always hit my stride when I am

Speaker 5 the, like when I'm maxing out the,

Speaker 5 hey, this is like myself, Woody, right? So like when you start music, the first songs you write, back in the day, I did, I was a huge Oasis fan. I sounded like dang Liam Gallagher, right?

Speaker 5 So my songs sounded like that. And they were good, but they weren't me.
And then same with the band. It's like

Speaker 5 the songs that I wrote sort of sounded like stuff that I was influenced by, but the best songs that I ever wrote or the best that I ever sang or whatever was when I was being myself.

Speaker 5 And I think that, like,

Speaker 5 you know, we all kind of wear, we're all kind of guarded in some way, right? We want people to think, oh man, I want them to make sure.

Speaker 5 I want them to feel like I'm professional. And,

Speaker 5 you know, I don't know, man. I just feel like like

Speaker 5 coming into the industry,

Speaker 5 I, in my head, I wanted to be myself, but in a way, you know, you kind of mimic those that you're around. And, you know,

Speaker 5 it really hasn't been until like I'm fully who I am that I feel like that's when I've started to hit my strat. And I feel like, man,

Speaker 5 thinking about all of the friends that we have, and I mean, I could just, I wish I could just list them all right now. But if they're listening, they know exactly who they are.

Speaker 5 Every single one of those people, as they become more and more themselves in the industry, I feel like, I feel like in a way, man, like

Speaker 5 if I rewind it all the way back to that first agency nation thing, I feel like that's kind of like the moment that I was like, man,

Speaker 5 that's what, that was the turning point for me. And I think for a lot of those folks, it's like we slowly but surely started like understanding like we as individuals, are our superpower.

Speaker 5 We're in this industry, just like everybody else that's in any industry, where it's just flooded with people. And if we all act the same, there's nothing that sets us apart.
So if

Speaker 5 we have this magical thing as individual humans, man, that like we're all different in a lot of ways.

Speaker 5 And if we're okay with that and you're confident enough being yourself, then you can absolutely use that as your ultimate superpower.

Speaker 5 And then that's kind of what I've done with things like video and all this. It's like, I want people to see who I am because, frankly, I, you know, I'm proud of that.

Speaker 5 And then, am I going to make everybody happy? Is everyone going to love me? No,

Speaker 5 but

Speaker 5 you know, I'm also not a

Speaker 5 butthole. So, a lot of people will like me, you know.
I mean, um,

Speaker 5 and because I think sometimes too, man, some of the feedback or some of the questions I get sometimes from folks that aren't necessarily as lucky as I am in terms of like the agency that they work for, you know, they say like, man, you know, like in one of those videos, dude, you had like a crazy like brave starter jacket on.

Speaker 5 I'm like, I just, you know, who's your target audience? I mean, you know, when I tell them like my old, my target audience is like

Speaker 5 luxury and, you know, high net worth people, their immediate thought is like, well, how are they going to take you seriously if you're in a brave

Speaker 5 thing? You know, you know what I mean?

Speaker 5 And so they're like, are you like, so I'm not sure if I'm supposed to swear to Exeter when I do these videos, but the bottom line is like, I feel like, hey, man, it's myself, you know, like either

Speaker 5 they're going to connect with me on some level whenever they're watching that video, whenever they do, or they're not.

Speaker 5 And if they're not because of that video, or maybe they don't have a Facebook account, guess what, man? That's not the only outlet that I'm going after.

Speaker 5 Like, I think of the career and business like the game of risk, man. I am posting up in Australia.
If you're listening, by the way, this is what you should do. Posting up.
in Australia.

Speaker 5 And if you don't know about risk, you're super confused right now, but it's okay. But I'm like like putting all my little soldiers in one spot.

Speaker 5 And at the same time, I'm putting them all over the map so that ultimately, dude, I can conquer that whole globe. But you have to do that.

Speaker 5 You have to kind of like be attacking in different directions. You know what I mean? So it's not just Facebook video, you know, it's not just YouTube videos.
It's doing a lot of things.

Speaker 5 And that's what's, you know, going back to the first question, man, that's what's, that's what's taking the time. It's just, you know, doing all that.
It takes energy, time. And

Speaker 5 yeah. So.

Speaker 6 Dude, it has been such a pleasure. Dude, I just love when we get a chance to talk.
I'm so happy for you, just like watching from afar because like I could tell things were going well.

Speaker 6 You know what I mean? Like I could tell that you were starting to find your stride and that, and I was

Speaker 6 proud is the wrong word because it sounds like, like I'm, you know, more just watching from afar. I was like, I'm happy.

Speaker 6 I was happy for you that it seems like you're in a really good place you're cooking I know how competitive you are I know the quality work you do and uh and it was just it's just been great man and uh and and like we started like you and I haven't talked in a while but this is freaking tremendous and I'm so glad we had a chance to connect and and that we could talk through some of this stuff and

Speaker 6 I'm sure I'm sure now either no one's going to reach out to you because they think that you're like super standoffish and cold or they're going to be like no no no man come speak at my

Speaker 5 yeah no man like reach out to me please i i

Speaker 5 just know that like if i don't reach out

Speaker 5 first kind of thing it's because like i'm really trying to you know stay on task here but reach out to me it's been you know old friends new friends people that have any questions that i'm always willing to i have like a i can copy and paste if you have a question about what gear i use and all that man i uh I'm happy to help in any way, man.

Speaker 5 And,

Speaker 5 you know, hopefully if they didn't get bored by my voice this far man hopefully they know that uh i'm happy for all everybody's success and like i said before our success is is our success together man um you know rising tides uh raise a ship or whatever the saying is yeah so and then two man two things one thank you for inviting me to be on this podcast dude and and then um

Speaker 5 also man like just thank you for all that you contribute to the to the um

Speaker 5 the industry dude i mean you're you have been and are a huge inspiration to me you've always been kind of like a mentor from afar um

Speaker 5 and i dude i mean i i really appreciate it um

Speaker 5 you know i've i've been lucky enough to

Speaker 5 have a burger and a beer with you man and um it means a lot and and uh i'm excited for you too man i mean and also what a rad

Speaker 5 rad name

Speaker 5 i mean you son of a gun as soon as i saw it i was like that son of a gun man. That's a badass name.

Speaker 5 Dang.

Speaker 6 I couldn't believe New York State approved it. I was so pumped.

Speaker 5 Oh, dude. Yeah.

Speaker 6 Thanks. I appreciate that.
And,

Speaker 6 well, you know that

Speaker 6 I do this only because, partially because I have a problem and partially just because

Speaker 6 like meeting peeps like you and spending time and having that, that's what I love that. I mean, it's my favorite thing.
So like,

Speaker 6 it's just been great. So, hey, bro,

Speaker 6 let's get out of here. I want to get you your time back.

Speaker 6 There are people that need to be sold insurance by Woody Brown. So, let's get about here.
Thanks for everyone listening at home. I love you for listening.

Speaker 5 Much love, man. Talk to you soon, dude.

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