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This week's episode of The Scathing Atheist is brought to you by stamps.com, My Sheets Rock, and by the indomitable will of those of us who did, in fact, tell them so.

And now, The Scathing Atheist.

This is Miranda with the new podcast, A Grain of Salticity.

How do you rehabilitate a horse who was thrown off a cliff and left for dead?

And what does that have to do with employment, abortion, and police violence?

Join me at the intersection of psychology, ecology, and society, where I can assure you that we did evolve from filthy monkey men.

But our poop jokes haven't.

Hi, it's Thursday.

It's fucking November 7th.

And fucking motherfuckity, fuck, fuck, fuck.

Really didn't think I had room to hate humanity more, but here we are.

We did it.

We did it.

America was even dumber than we thought.

I've no illusions.

I'm Eli Bosnick.

I'm Heath Enright.

Okay.

And from Grover, Cleveland, New Jersey, Ann Arbor, Michigan, and Wake Cross, Georgia, this is the Scathing Atheist.

Of this week's episode, Sane America clenches for four more years.

Tucker Carlson grapples with his outer demons.

And we'll read some more of the upcoming Oklahoma science curriculum.

The first fucking die frame.

This was about what we are as a country.

As a culture.

That's what was on the ballot.

Who are we?

What are we?

And what we are

is hate.

We are racism and transphobia and misogyny and classism and xenophobia and fear and cowardice and ignorance and hate.

That is what America is at its core.

And why the fuck should we be surprised?

Right?

A nation built on genocide, grown rich on slave labor, brutally divided by a persistent racial hierarchy that we still haven't reckoned with.

You know, here we stand, peering out from a lofty perch atop the bones of America's victims going, I don't know, I don't see any hate from up here.

I mean, I did a whole diatribe last week about, oh, why is it even close?

And we all know fucking why.

We all know why.

It's hate, right?

Some people even called me out about it online.

They were like, really, Noah, why is it closed?

Because fucking racism, because bigotry and white grievance and fear of the other.

Trump was all hate.

That's all he's ever been from the beginning, from his fucking Mexicans or rapists' kickoff to his first campaign.

And before that, right to his rising to political prominence by questioning the Americanness of our first black president.

And we've stood around with our thumbs up our asses this whole time going,

why did people manage to like him despite his hateful rhetoric?

Despite?

It was never despite the shit he did.

The hate was the point.

When Kamala started surging in the polls, what did he do?

He tripled down on the hate.

His ads got more transphobic.

His rallies got more racist.

His speeches got more violent.

He gave America the fuel that powered it since before its inception.

He gave it hate.

And along the way, he showed every right-wing demagogue to follow him that no amount of viciousness, resentment, or bigotry will ever be too much for the American electorate.

Because viciousness, resentment, and bigotry is what the American electorate is.

So where do we even go from here?

I mean, as a country, the answer is easy, right?

Fascism.

Fascism and theocracy.

Oppression and repression and regression.

But where do we go?

Where do those of us who still have dreams of a better nation go?

Well, I've got an answer for you, but it's not an answer most of you are going to like because the answer is that we fight fire with fire.

What we need on our side is more hate.

Last time we went through this, these motherfuckers, they told us we needed to open our hearts to these disaffected disaffected blue-collar rush belt white dudes and flyover country.

We needed to listen to their grievances and sympathize with their plight and hum a minor key version of my country tizzy as they stared forlornly over the boarded up factories, wiping away a single tear that we shed for the diminishing industrial sector.

And where the fuck did that get us?

It got us here.

It left us kicking away at Lucy's football once again, thinking we'd solve the problem by tackling the issues that supposedly these motherfuckers cared about.

Right?

Kamala ran a campaign about togetherness and inclusiveness and lower taxes and more affordable housing and rebuilding the middle class.

All the shit that the Love Thy Neighbor think pieces told us those disaffected Trump voters wanted in 2016.

Meanwhile, Trump ran a campaign about hate and he won.

That's what they really wanted no matter what they said out loud.

Look, we tried love.

It wasn't enough.

We We didn't love our immigrant neighbors enough to protect them from mass deportations.

We didn't love our gay and trans friends enough to close ranks around their rights.

We didn't love women or people who rely on social security or the air we breathe or the water we drink or our health care or our children or ourselves enough.

Obviously, we didn't.

Because the way we lost this election was by just not showing up.

We called for love and we got apathy.

Now it's time to call for hate.

And I know some people are going to wince at that and try to give me shit about taking the high road when they take the low road.

But that whole concept is predicated on the idea that there's some moral core to appeal to in this fight.

The better angels of our nature went to war against the worst demons of it on Tuesday and they lost.

We need to stop coating this shit with sugar.

We need to stop looking at a fucking fascist and seeing Uncle Rob.

We need to stop looking at a Nazi and seeing a disaffected voter.

We need to stare right into the heart of who and what they are and what they've done to our country and what they're doing to our country.

And we need to hate it.

We need to hate what our country has become and all that empowered it to become that.

We need to seethe with anger at every abuse like it was the first one and to hate ourselves for letting it turn into this.

Because look, as uncomfortable as it is for me to call for more hate, the absence of hate in this instance is acceptance.

And calling for that is even worse.

Ceding this nation to the people who perked up at the naked bigotry of Trump's campaign and said, well, there's my man, that's far less palatable than hating them to me.

As long as we hate what this country has become, we carry at least a memory of what it promised us it could be, what it still could be.

Well, we could at least steer it back towards if we could muster the rage that we clearly lacked for this election.

We need to cultivate our hate.

We need to nurture it and grow it and feed it until it blossoms into action.

We planted these fields with love once before and they lay barren.

So now, either we plant something else, something that we know can grow in the native soil, or we wither away.

They're talking about your Jesus.

We interrupt this broadcast and bring you a special news moment.

Joining me for headlines tonight are the fucking fuck to my fuck, Heath Enright and Eli Bosnick.

Fellas,

fuck,

fuck.

Ibid.

And while I try to remember words that aren't fuck, we're going to pause for a word from our first fucking sponsors fucking week, stamps.fucking calm.

Opposite.

Hey, podcast listener.

I'm Eli Bosnick.

And I'm Heath Enright.

And we're pleased to announce that here at the Scathing Atheist, we will be taking Thanksgiving and Christmas off this year.

That's right.

Two whole weeks.

How did we manage it?

Well, it wasn't easy.

Tearing the page out of Noah's calendar, a large-scale server wipe for our audio host audioboom.

And a series of complicated plays performed by independent actors we hired in Noah's neighborhood.

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Hey, did one of you guys teach my cats to say, why can't we have a meowie Christmas?

Okay, to be fair, we only taught that to peekaboo.

Binky picked it up from him.

No, yeah, that tracks.

And now, back to the headlines.

In our lead story tonight, we failed.

We, as in the liberal humanists who are striving for a better America, we, as in the American electorate, and we, as in the social experiment that was representative democracy.

We failed ourselves and our ancestors and our generations in a way too profound for anyone alive in this moment to even comprehend.

And we returned the most petty, idiotic, incompetent, spiteful, corrupt person to ever hold the office of the presidency back to the White House.

We somehow managed to be even stupider than I gave us credit for.

Yeah, and no one usually saves that honor for when I get my hands on the company card by accident, people.

So this is

big stuff.

Yeah, lots of blame going around, obviously.

I'd like to blame Dominion voting systems.

I don't think we can trust those results.

Trusting those results?

It's our turn.

I'm going to look at the phone call, fucking cell phone data, yeah.

But so look, we didn't just fail at the level of the executive branch.

We also have given the world's dumbest grifter almost certainly a unified Republican legislature, combined with a Supreme Court that's already pre-forgiven any crimes he might feel like committing over the next four years.

That's nice.

The first Trump presidency, in other words, was the restrained one,

the one where his worst impulses were held in check by institutional momentum and the at least peripheral fear of legal consequences.

But now...

With a Republican Party purged of anyone who would dare accuse the emperor of nudity, SCOTUS authorization, and the knowledge that even without it, we couldn't muster one fucking shred of legal recourse in four goddamn years against the man.

We get to see the somehow even more unhinged version of Trump take the reins of a country with no remaining guardrails.

So that ought to be fun.

Okay, okay.

True, but,

but on the plus side, lots more Melania skits, everybody.

She has a funny voice.

Glandage.

Very thin cheat.

Yeah, right.

Right.

Yeah.

Very thin, very long cheat.

All the hits.

So, how did this happen?

Well, as I'm sure any liberal would be happy to explain, it's the fault of all the liberals that disagree with them about any single fucking topic.

The instant the returns started to come into focus, Democrats started lining up for the circular firing line like we were going to do the hokey pokey.

But demographically speaking, the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of young white male non-college graduates.

In other words, Joe Rogan's audience.

Disaffected young white men who think it's somebody else's fault they suck.

So, in retrospect, it should come as no surprise that they came out en masse to vote for the platonic form of white privilege.

Yeah, worth pointing out that we like don't have the Electoral College to blame for this one.

We lost because of democracy this time, gang.

And that's that's actually a whole lot worse.

Yeah,

so other than Hugo Chavez and his rampant election fraud, I would like to blame democracy, the concept.

It's rule by the stupid.

As my boy, to be clear, I think we should keep doing democracy, but we need to focus way fucking more on explaining basic economics to a five-year-old during the campaigns of the future.

Right.

So, like, education is a prerequisite to a working democracy.

Absolutely.

Education.

Right.

Yeah.

So, Kamala Harris lost.

America lost.

The planet fucking earth lost.

Reason lost.

Decency lost.

We lost and we are lost.

So I guess we'll take what comfort we can in the fact that we're lost together and we'll huddle together in the fucking darkness, keeping the fire of reason alive and a goddamn horn beneath a mountain or whatever, just in case the country ever feels like they need it again.

Sorry, Eli, do comedy now.

I got it.

I got you, baby.

I got so many descriptions of a woman I don't like.

This is going to grow great.

Don't you worry.

And in Smoke Like an Atheist News, Lieutenant Governor of Florida and woman who looks like Bob Iger doing drag for the first time, Janet Nunez, said the quiet part out loud this week when, while encouraging Christians to vote no on Prop 4, which would overturn the state's draconian six-week abortion ban, she told them not to be all atheisty about it.

Yeah, you got to decimate bodily autonomy, but don't be like, hey, that's actually just removing 10% of bodily autonomy.

Nobody likes that.

It's an old definition.

There's another one that's just, it's not even a good correction.

Yeah, exactly.

Yes, Nunez, who looks like a Whig mannequin, could choose the wrong cup in Indiana Jones movie, had the following to say to her constituents at an anti-choice rally last week, quote, we are right next door to St.

Teresa.

One of the most iconic churches in Miami-Dade County.

And just yesterday, thousands of people walked through that door and through the doors of churches all around our state to pray, to worship, to hear the word of God.

And while I know that one of our doctors said this isn't a religious amendment, here's what I will say.

We cannot go to church and pray like Christians and turn around and vote like atheists.

End actual quotes.

You can, though.

You can.

Most of you are lying about the faith part.

You're just lying all the time.

You can do whatever you want.

Yeah.

No, look, look, when your religion conflicts with your deeply held values,

it's not a problem with your values, generally speaking.

Well, as our listeners in Florida already know, Prop 4 failed in a fittingly representative moment of this election.

The 55%,

that's more than half, of Floridians did not reach the 60%

necessary to pass the proposition.

Why isn't that number 50%?

You know, like a democracy should be?

Well, because the rules, the bad guys made up.

And we're all following those rules for some reason.

And that's what those rules say.

And that's a chorus I personally am pretty fucking sick of hearing.

But hey, hey, at least we're all in agreement, good guys and bad, that a world where women have bodily autonomy is one without God in it.

Yeah, so in Florida, the state went easily to Trump and also shot down bodily autonomy because of the dumb rule.

But it's insane to me that pro-choice initiatives in other states like Arizona were able to pass and the state still voted heavily for Donald Trump.

Some amount of people thought they could protect bodily autonomy and also vote for Donald Trump to be president and Republicans to be in Congress.

I don't know what the fuck is happening.

I'm starting to think maybe the American people aren't very well informed.

I don't know.

Oh, Heath, come on, too far.

And in Let the Bodies Hit the Fluoride news.

Well done.

Hey, there it is.

This story was a lot more amusing a couple days ago when you wrote it.

Yeah.

So RFK.

We can't open all the headlines that way even, right?

Yeah.

So RFK Jr.

is going to be in charge of public health for the country.

Yep.

During Donald Trump's pre-victory speech, we got full confirmation about that.

Trump said he's going to make America healthy again by hiring the whale chainsaw guy.

He told RFK Jr.

to go wild.

Oh, he will.

He sure will.

And we learned some extra details about what that's going to look like, thanks to recent claims by the most tragic Kennedy in the history of the family.

RFK Jr.

wants to end the fluoridation of public water on day one.

And more importantly, he's coming after your Cheez-Its.

That's happening too.

Well, I mean, sure, once we don't have public fluoride, our teeth aren't going to be able to handle the crunch.

That's just a public safety issue, okay?

Yeah, no, and if this is a sign of where Trump's going, get ready for White House Communication Director Alex Jones, right?

Good times.

Okay, so I'll start with the fluoride thing.

Big pin in the Cheez-Its, though.

Your dad's favorite prank.

So

it's crunchy.

So just in case anyone's not familiar with this absurd conspiracy, it comes from the the chemists of the world who got their PhD at the School of Hard Knocks, the autodidactic chemists, these are the same people who did their own research and decided to stop COVID by getting rid of their horseworms.

That squad has been saying for years that fluoride in the water is evil.

Now, you might be thinking, hold on, isn't water fluoridation considered by real experts to be one of the most important public health initiatives of the entire 20th century?

Yes, yes, it is.

But it's also part of a sinister plot by the Illuminati or something to help our teeth, but also control the galaxy more than they already do.

And it's the cause of whatever diseases the crazy person can name at the moment.

For RFK Jr.

last week, that list was arthritis, bone fractures, bone cancer, IQ loss, neurodevelopmental disorders, and thyroid disease.

I feel like the IQ loss is on the literal worm that ate parts of your literal brain.

Could be.

Could be.

So on Friday, he posted on Twitter that fluoride is an industrial waste that causes all those problems.

And he added, quote, on January 20th of 2025, the Trump White House will advise all U.S.

water systems to remove fluoride from public water.

It's weird that they always aim for IQ, right?

Like, like if I was lying about the benefits of listening to our podcast, I wouldn't tell people it makes me run faster.

You know what I'm saying?

Feels like a weird point.

So there's a big difference between fluorine, fluoride, and fluoridated water.

Fluorine is an element.

It's toxic to humans, even in very small amounts.

The same is true of almost everything, depending on the amount.

I mean, like oxygen is toxic, depending on the amount.

Fluoride, on the other hand, is a compound that contains fluorine, but it's bonded to other stuff, which makes it different.

Like, okay, think of how it works with hydrogen by itself.

Hydrogen is extremely explosive, but you know how your toilet doesn't usually explode when you light a match in the bathroom, even though the water has like a bunch of hydrogen in there?

It's like that.

And fluoridated water is public water with about 0.7 milligrams of fluoride per liter, slightly above the naturally occurring amount of fluoride that's already in the water.

So when RFK Jr.

claims that fluoride is a toxic industrial waste that has nothing to do with public water yeah well just wait till he hears that they've now doubled the amount of hydrogen in water these days double i say also heath i i i think the non-explosive bathroom air example might have missed half of our co-hosts in terms of uh like relatabilities

i was gonna mention i was gonna say i was yeah i was gonna mention it off air i didn't want to bring it up but not today the reason for the exploit anyway that brings us to the real controversy RFK Jr.

is coming for your cheese snacks.

He recently posted a video on YouTube and he's standing behind what he believes to be a very ominous countertop stacked up with Cheez-Its, Doritos, cat and crunch, Tylenol, Mucinex, and Vaseline.

And before he started very clearly fucking the big pile on the counter for his OnlyFans, he gave us a big rant about the poison inside all that stuff.

Apparently, the big problem is yellow dye number five or tartrazine.

He claims the American life expectancy went down compared to Europe around 1990.

And the culprit is the yellow stuff.

And among its major side effects, yellow number five just happens to have

all the major causes of death in the country as their side effects.

Yeah, yeah.

That includes heart disease.

Car crashes.

But especially heart disease, he mentions that.

And those are confusing confusing mouthwords when I said heart disease just now.

So we get a visual aid in the video.

It's just a cutaway to a guy squeezing his own man boob for like a while.

The whole video is only about five minutes long, and it's truly insane.

Link in the show notes if you're morbidly curious.

Okay, well, if Heath gets to put his porn in the show notes, then I demand we revote on not in front of my salad.

Okay, okay, all right.

But this is personally interesting because my cardiologist never asked how much Vaseline I was eating and it was a lot.

I didn't realize that this was a risk.

So go RFK Jr.

Coming around.

The fact that Noah's alive and not like a ball of cancer cells after the mountain dew, there's yellow five in there.

I feel like that just alone is pretty solid.

And just for the record, yellow number five has been studied extensively by the FDA and they deemed it safe and legal for food.

And in Europe, it's also legal.

But sometimes in Europe, the food with yellow number five has a label and it basically says, like, yeah, there was a panic about this for like a minute based on a few studies we checked.

Just fucking relax.

We're going to put the label here.

Also, just one other thing worth noting.

Every time RFK Jr.

makes up a bunch of scary side effects for public water or for vaccines or Cheez-Its, the list is very similar.

to the symptoms of having a giant brain worm.

I think it's important to keep that in mind.

Well, it's important to keep brainworms out of mind, actually.

But yeah, right too.

I get it.

I get it.

And comforted in the fact that I can eat as much Vaseline as I want, as it turns out, we're going to take a quick break for a word from our other sponsor this week, My Sheets Rock.

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All right, but they look like pajamas.

Yeah, Heath, I didn't want to tell you this, but I've actually been using our lessons to help me sleep.

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All right, Noah, thanks.

Guess I don't need these lessons anymore after all, Heath.

The other day, you asked me if I want to take out a corporate loan so we can invest in Dogecoin.

Okay, so I don't want the lessons then.

Sure.

I'm sorry, what's a you don't want to know about it.

You're right.

I don't, actually.

And we're back next up in headlines in Cheating on the Bechdel Test News.

In a grim reminder of what we just voted for, Afghanistan's Minister for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, Khalid Hanafi, announced new measures to further subjugate the women in his country.

For example, there was already a law that forbade women from speaking to one another in public.

And in this latest escalation, Hanafi added that, quote, even when an adult female prays and another female passes by, she must not pray loudly enough for them to hear, end quote.

Yeah, no using the telepathic lady stuff either.

You're like,

we know about that too.

No doing that.

Well, look, if I've learned anything from this election, it's that Afghani women should have been nicer to Afghani men.

Am I right?

We got to reach across the aisle, ladies.

This is on you.

That's the key.

This is on you.

Yeah, so quick thanks to Peter for sending both the story and the Bechdel Test joke to scathingnews at gmail.com.

Look, I'm not saying if you come up with a clever enough in blank news joke, you're guaranteed to hear your story and your name on this.

You know what?

Actually, I am saying that.

I just said that.

So, in fact, there you go.

That's right, Peter.

Full-time host now.

See you Sunday night for the story draft.

Yep, yep, we'll be in touch.

But yeah, so if you keep in score, among the rights Afghan women have lost since the U.S.

military withdrawal will be the rights to be heard in public, go to to school, work in civil service, drive a car, travel abroad, play sports, wear bright clothes, own smartphones, speak in public, speak loudly in their own homes, sing, and of course, show their faces or any part of their body in public.

This is not an exhaustive list.

As Meryl Streep pointed out in a fucking speech on the issue, a female cat in Afghanistan literally has more rights than a woman.

Quote, a cat may go out on her front stoop and feel the sun on her face.

She may chase a squirrel into the park, a squirrel that has more rights than a girl in Afghanistan today because the parks have been closed to women and girls by the Taliban.

End quote.

Okay, in fairness, though, liberal bureaucrats in New York aren't murdering the women of Afghanistan like Peanut the Squirrel.

Yeah, squirrels have a bat everywhere.

So

this is where we are four years after the extreme right-wing theocracy wrested control from the imperfect, unpopular Democratic coalition that was running the show before it.

I'll start our clock on January 20th and let you know.

Yeah.

And finally tonight, in there once was a man from Nantucker News.

Tucker Carlson is not well.

I mean, he's never been well, but now he's entered a place that I believe Stephen Colbert would call banana pants boo-boo bonkers.

On the last episode of The Skepticrat, we talked about Tucker's appearance at a Donald Trump rally in which Tucker described America as a bad little girl who needs a vigorous spanking from daddy.

Exact words.

And daddy was Donald Trump in his metaphor.

I'm not even slightly exaggerating.

And that insane bit lasted for way longer than I'm willing to revisit right now.

Well, it appears that Tucker's very literal psychosexual fugue state was in full swing long before that rally.

And we learned about the scope of it this week with the release of a preview for an upcoming documentary in which Tucker explains that he was physically mauled by a demon inside his bedroom.

Huh.

Okay, but real talk, right?

If the devil wanted to win me over to his side,

I mean, mauling Tucker Carlson isn't amazing.

Yeah, right now.

That would also be my first wish.

I want to know what he was masturbating with that this was the best story he could come up with when his wife walked in, right?

It was a demon mauling.

It was a, didn't you see it?

Went out the window what was happening there when you went right to that yeah something something interesting and a big thanks to kevin for sending a link to scathingnews at gmail.com so the upcoming documentary is called christianities

and the title is stylized with the ies

in a different color so like christianites i have no idea it's a christian movie it is on the docket for a potential game episode and maybe we'll try to figure out the title.

We'll see how the indie go-go goes.

So, during the preview, we see Tucker hanging out in the woods with some Christian guy from some fucking Christian thing.

It doesn't matter.

And Tucker's wearing his brand new trapper's vest over his brand new tactical freedom flannel.

Like, they're about to do a very sexual LL Bean commercial for sure.

I was certain.

AKA and LL Bean commercial.

Am I right, everybody?

And the Christian guy says, do you believe the presence of evil is kick-starting people to wonder about the good?

And Tucker says, yeah, that's what happened to me.

I had a direct experience with it.

The interview guy says at that point, are you talking about your career in journalism?

And that's when Tucker just matter of factly says, no, in my bed at night, I got attacked while I was asleep with my wife and my four dogs in bed, and I got mauled, physically mauled.

Okay, everyone else is picturing Tucker's wife and dogs giving him a blanket party, right?

Because that's what I'm picturing.

Got the bar of soap in between their teeth.

That's always what I'm picturing, Eli.

Who's giving him the blanket party changes?

But I'm always thinking.

So, without realizing that he mentioned dogs and then immediately said the verb for when dogs attack, and then wondered about magical demon claw marks, Tucker continued.

He claimed that he still has the scars from that.

We do not see the scars, by the way.

No.

And then he continues in the same matter-of-fact tone.

He says, yeah, it was a demon or something unseen that left claw marks.

Oh, you don't want to jump to any conclusions or any skeptic.

Exactly.

He continued, I had these terrible pains on my rib cage and on my shoulder.

And I was just in my boxer shorts.

And I went and flipped on the light in the bathroom.

And I had four claw marks on.

either side underneath my arms and on my left shoulder and they're bleeding.

And also the demon kept yelling, I can't believe I married you.

I hate your face.

I hate your face.

And or woof.

So according to Tucker, he actually checked with someone else.

And this is a real thing that Christian people are dealing with all the time.

My wife and dogs were whistling very loudly.

He told the story to an assistant who's an evangelical Christian.

And the assistant told him, yeah, that happens.

People are attacked in their bed by demons.

Okay, but like, isn't that a great reason not to be a Christian?

Because demons don't attack atheists, Joey.

You get no demon attacks plus butt stuff.

That feels like an upside unless

there's something really, really sexual that you're lying about now.

Okay, so here's the thing with mental health problems.

They're not funny.

But

yes, they are when it's Tucker Carlson.

No rules for Tucker.

So here's what I'm hoping for.

I'm hoping that Tucker's wife Susan, who very definitely hates him, is going to lean into the bit and start fucking with him.

And she's going to keep making like little claw marks on his body while he's sleeping and then gaslighting him forever about it.

So many Heath points, Susan.

So many.

Keep it going.

All right.

Well, with that reminder that even when you're feeling you're most alone, you always have Tucker's demon on your side.

We're going to close the headlines for the night.

Heath, Eli, thanks as always.

Tumaji.

And when we come back, we'll just keep carrying on like the world isn't burning down around us, apparently.

Books are overrated.

Sure, once in a while they're brilliant, but far more often they're shit.

And even when people keep telling you that books are brilliant, still very often they're shit, which C.S.

Lewis's Mere Christianity is going to remind us yet again in this installment of

God-awful books.

How is this held up as the best question of television?

being so insane?

I mean, look, I know it's an insane day of insane days, but I was really ready for the poet king to take me down a notch when we started reading this book, to have to get into the nitty-gritty of philosophy and like refer to higher minds.

And then he's fucking a lawnmower.

And he's just been

fucking a lawnmower.

C.S.

Lewis blocked me on Facebook so long.

All right, so we're still living through cs's regret at listing so damn many virtues on his outline in the form of book three which we're going to finish up tonight starting with chapter nine charity now he opens this one with the most impossibly convoluted um er so i was gonna earlier earlier i was saying about you remember charity that that's his paragraph you can you just can't even imagine It's like he was shy about starting his own chapter in his own book.

Right.

Like just ask to do butt stuff in your chapter called charity.

we might say yes yeah also now gentlemen to be fair if i was on my third try at giving something the title of least popular virtue i'd be nervous working my way into fair fair so he defines charity as quote love in the christian sense

scotsman in its authenticity if you yeah right right so he spends a lot of time on how it's totally okay that he fucking hates his neighbor right

They caught me fucking their lawnmower.

They were super mean about it.

Yeah, ridiculous.

As long as you

pretend to be nice to him.

He also explains why it's perfectly okay to be stingy with people, even if you love them.

Yeah, you probably thought you came into this chapter knowing what the word charity means, but no, it turns out it's how Christian you're willing to be at dinner, not whether you pick up the check, which is an interesting take.

Yeah, it's cool to have the dragon arms when the check shows up, but you got to be nice to the Trump voters at the table.

So,

no.

Yep.

No, I'm done listening.

Yeah, for real.

Right, but the crux of his argument seems to be that true Christian charity should come devoid of affection.

And apparently, I only think that because my head is so full of sentimentality, I think that's bad because I'm so sentimental.

Yeah, and there's a weirdly honest moment where C.S.

Lewis is like, I fucking hate myself.

Seriously, I'm the worst.

But still, give me some of that charity.

I'm doing a chapter about it.

He then he explains microaggressions.

Oh, I was wondering what those are.

C.S.

Lewis explains it.

Cool.

I love this so much because it's so clueless, right?

He's like, you know, when a series of behaviors can really grind someone down without malice.

And look, they're only because the clueless offender is so entirely self-involved.

Anyways, back to the book I'm writing on how to do our religion correctly.

Yeah.

And he points out that if God really wanted us to love him, he would have put love for him in us, right?

Because he's omnipotent.

So it's okay if you just, you just have to act like you like him.

Wait, shit, that's a point for your side.

Ignore that part.

Ignore that part.

I like that he accidentally describes people as either Christian or worldly in this part.

You can be Christian or sophisticated and knowledgeable about stuff.

And all those worldly fucking globalist Jewish heathens are basing their behavior toward people on stuff like merit.

And merit is not

meritorious.

That's his theory.

Far from it.

Clearly not.

Oh my God.

This entire chapter read like he forgot he had a chapter due, right?

This is the fucking filler episode of apologetics.

I genuinely thought he was going to end it with, in the end, was Christianity mere or was it merely Christianity?

It's a double space.

Word, word, word.

And

I got on to the next line.

So I'm on the next page.

Yep, yeah, there you go.

Typing this right now.

Okay, next chapter.

Page count.

But that's nothing compared to the absolute afterthought of a chapter that is chapter 10, hope.

Right.

So he listed all those versions before.

Now he needs to do a chapter for each one, and he is so clearly pissed about it.

Okay, but admit it.

Admit it to me, gentlemen.

You were excited to see how C.S.

Lewis fucked up hope.

Right?

Right?

He does with philosophy what I do with financial decisions, right?

You can only sort of stand back and marvel.

Yeah.

Christianity to the moon.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

So apparently he, what he's here to explain is that it's okay to dream about heaven all the time because just look at what this very small minority of good historical Christians did whilst thinking about heaven all the time.

Okay, so I think, and really correct me if I'm wrong on this.

He's trying to redeem hope by imagining to know the thoughts of Christian people who did nice things, but like, but dude, you're the one who shed on hope.

I came into the chapter liking hope, right?

I didn't need to be talked into it.

Also, are we playing with stuff Christian people did?

I'd like to list some other things they did while thinking about heaven.

I can help out your word count a lot.

Yes, but I don't think you're going to like it.

So, yeah, so now he tries for an analogy.

I bet that goes great.

He said that this is like the focusing on heaven.

It's like focusing on your health because, like, if you do that too much, you could become too healthy

he says that yep yep i tell my doctor this all the time yeah actually yeah it's it's a good argument you're like you should really ask for like a wholesale deal on seeing that doctor at this point right i tell her that all the time i'm like let's do packets of 12 appointments you thought squinting at the sun was meningitis did the doctor enjoy explaining how it wasn't i did think it was that so so or was it meningitis No, it wasn't.

No.

Okay.

Yeah, but so he explains that just wanting civilization isn't enough.

And I'm like, I feel like it is, though, right?

Or I guess it would be if it wasn't for what y'all Christian motherfuckers are doing.

He says the trick to making a good civilization is focusing on not that.

Yeah.

It's like thinking about baseball and, you know, human sex when you're fucking a lawnmower.

Slow things down.

Okay.

I love this section because it's like the fourth or fifth time in the book that C.S.

has morally pontificated himself into a corner of, oh, I I suppose if God weren't real, we'd want all these things I'm describing anyways.

But then, if that was true, I wrote a book for nothing.

Yep.

About nothing.

So

that thing is against the rules.

I decided.

Yes.

Yeah.

No, but apparently you know heaven and hell are real because sometimes you want things that don't exist in this world.

So things must exist in other worlds.

Otherwise, why would you want them?

This is the first time I've ever heard the argument from, I want something that's like a jelly donut, but it's not a jelly donut.

Yes.

Today I learned my wife, when she's nonspecifically snacky, is the devil.

I knew that.

Yeah, I suspected it all along.

He's like, you know, no matter where you travel, what you obtain, who you love, who you surround yourself with, you're never remotely satisfied and you long for death.

I'm like, no, C.S.

Lewis, that's your go.

You should go to a therapist, man.

You know how you love your wife, but you're always like, oh, just you're always

right.

Yes.

Yes.

He actually says the words in his book.

I think everyone knows what I mean.

I'm like, it's a book, man.

You have to do better than that.

Are you doing crowd work in your book, man?

This reader knows what I'm talking about, right?

Who's reading in from out of town?

Now, there are two wrong ways, apparently, of dealing with the crippling ennui inspired by our own perpetual mediocrity that we all together feel the first he dubs the fool's way and that is blaming your life for sucking yeah cause and effect cause and effect whatever happened to gumption people right yes he's like an infomercial for sadness he says like you know how rich people are always hating their life just

traveling the world doing what they want having Sex with humans.

There must be a better way.

It's

crazy.

So that's the fool's way.

The second is the way of the disillusioned, sensible man.

That is sensible, being sensible.

His other wrong way is to be satisfied with one's life and find the joy in it.

So when the argument starts with sensible is stupid, you're really writing yourself into a corner there, buddy.

And he actually says being sensible is clearly the best line we could take if man did not live forever.

And then he has to explain that if we do live forever, you have to be the opposite of sensible.

And Christianity is

senseless.

I'm

why did I do this?

And of course, finally, we get to the right way to handle the intense loathing that we feel towards the back of the mirror.

And that's the one that he dubs the Christian way.

Now, this is again, he proves heaven exists by pointing out that we wouldn't have desires for something that don't exist.

So he's now proven.

both God's love and blowjob fountains, which is not a bad day's work.

Hey, lawnmowers exist, my man.

Just think for a second before you write it down.

Yeah.

Basically, he says all ways of being happy are meaningless or wrong, except for the happiness you get imagining the reward of his specific religion.

And it's funny how that turned out to be the only logical and fact-based way to be happy, right?

So strange, yeah.

No, but there's a huge, why would I have a desire that no earthly pleasure would ever satiate paragraph that in a more beautiful world would end with him going, oh, never mind.

I actually just tried tried having sex with a man, and it turns out that was it the whole time.

Mere Christianity 2, a dick feels way better than a finger,

and mere Christianity 3.

Okay, it's actually both.

It's both, as it turns out.

Yeah, yeah,

let that waggle.

So, yeah, no, but how sad is it that his honest advice is dedicate your entire purpose to something that doesn't exist, and then maybe you'll find happiness.

Okay, guys, sex is great, but did you ever die?

No.

Also, what

he clarifies for us here that heaven is not all lying on clouds and playing harps, okay?

Yeah, he says, don't worry about people who say, I don't want to spend eternity playing harps.

And like,

who is he arguing against?

I don't.

No, did Bertrand Russell write the argument from boring harp lessons on a cloud?

I'm not aware of it.

Also, that sounds great.

That sounds fun.

Yeah, exactly.

Sounds fine.

Okay, but what I love about this section is that he's just running into what I like to call affectionately the problem of cat care, right?

Because look, heaven's a fucking stupid idea, right?

It's a stupid concept.

And people solve that by getting vaguer and vaguer until they sound like an old person who visited heaven during their summers as a girl.

He's having to do it in his book.

It's excellent.

Yeah, and perhaps feeling like he really whiffed on those first two chapters, he decides to double down with the last of his three theological virtues by doing two chapters on faith, starting with chapter 11, right?

He's like, Christians use the word faith in two senses.

And I'm like, tell me about it, motherfucker.

He's like, divinity one is belief.

And he asks this very logical question, right?

He's like, okay, so we always say faith in our religion is a virtue, but how can believing in a thing be a virtue if that thing is true?

Oh, so close, yes.

Right?

Just so close.

Yeah.

He's like, hey, hey, look, if the evidence is sufficient, you would just believe it.

And if it isn't sufficient, forcing yourself to believe it would be stupid.

Yeah.

And I'm like, I've never been more with you, CS.

Okay, don't say however, buddy.

However,

oh, there it is.

And I love his however here because he's like, but that's rational, and human minds aren't rational.

Like, take my perfectly normal and universal terror that surgeons are going to operate on me while I'm conscious.

I left for so long.

For so long.

Because he's on the table being like, oh, yeah.

You know how sometimes you look away for a moment, you're being followed by a giant spider.

Let me tell you my opinion.

You could share.

If he had opened the book with, I have a terrifying and pervasive fear of being operated on while I'm awake.

By a giant spider.

I would have skipped the rest of the book, right?

Yes.

Right.

Yeah.

So the idea is, I got to turn off my critical thinking because sometimes my emotions make me turn off my critical thinking.

That's it.

Yeah.

That's the argument you're going with?

Don't worry.

He's got an analogy.

So this should clear it up.

He's like, even, it's like how if, even if you know a woman is a lying, untrustworthy hussy, you still want to be with her.

Almost exact quote.

Rich,

his literal example is telling a mean, pretty girl something that she later uses to embarrass you again as though this is as universal an experience as stubbing one's toe

she never showed up with that special lawnmower lubricant she wants

just a bucket of pig's blood

i made it work but that's not the point and that analogy went super great right so he does another one uh-huh he says that faith in god is just like learning to swim the key is having faith that you won't sink when the swim teacher lets go because you've you've seen people swim without sinking that's not faith but you can't see people going to heaven that's the thing so christianity is being like wily coyote but just never looking down i guess that's insane i get he spent so many words here saying like well maybe you don't believe in jesus because you're just scared

hey i don't want to be the notes guy but i feel like the editor could have told him to give a couple more sentences of space between I am filled with the irrational terror of being operated on while I'm awake and apropos of nothing, my religion is the cure for any irrational terrorism.

But yeah, he explains that back when he was an atheist, which he totally was, he was a big atheist, a lot of atheists back in the day, Christianity used to seem pretty probable to him sometimes.

Guy with a beard, big wooden tee, something for gifts to me.

All checks out.

My logic says yes, but my body says yes.

Yeah, right.

Someone's going to operate on me while I'm

so yeah, but he says, you know, you have to constantly be reminded that Christianity is true because of how true it is.

He goes, and I quote, neither this belief nor any other will automatically remain alive in the mind.

It must be fed.

But of course, fucking other beliefs stay alive.

Like, how often do you need to be reminded that gravity is real or Boise is the capital of Idaho to continue to believe those things are true, man?

Right.

Never catch this roadrunner.

And we should point out that Christians put that quote, that exact quote, on like pillows and blankets and shit all the time.

It's like the ontological version of if I close my eyes, I turn invisible.

And it's the third most highlighted thing in the Amazon version of this e-book.

Peekaboo, fuck.

Still no God.

I'm going to keep playing for sure, but

you got to make sure.

I'm a grown-up.

Oh, God.

He's like, I bet most people who stopped being Christian weren't just reasoned out of it.

They probably just stopped believing because they didn't get it reinforced.

I'm like, why would you bet that?

I will take that fucking bet.

Yeah, I mean, look, it's a good thing for C.S.

Lewis that atheists are just hypothetical because otherwise he'd have to like ask us

believe and maybe find out.

His description of being a Christian here sounds insane and exhausting.

Apparently, you're walking around every day with like epistemological mood swings, the way he described it.

Yeah.

Being like, yeah, God, God's real.

But like, oh, I could really go for a little geology right now.

And that's why you need to pray to avoid all that dangerous fact-thinking.

Geology, geology-knowing.

That's an argument for our side, what you just said there.

Obviously.

And then he says he wants to tackle the second definition of faith, but he admits he's probably not really up to the challenge.

And to be clear, he isn't.

No, he never like.

So, so, first, he says, he's like, okay, so first of all, just try, say, six weeks of being Christian, just see how it feels.

Okay, fine, yeah,

like really say that.

I literally, I was just about to say, I know we exaggerate for comedic effect, but Noah isn't joking.

No, that is actually his suggestion.

We are now in the peak of Christian apologetics at argumentum odd just the tip of it.

Here, here, here.

Just hold the existence of God in your hand for a second.

Yeah, right.

It feels good, though, right?

Let me pray in front of you.

What should God do to put you in a disguise existing right now?

Come on.

But he says, if you do good stuff, you're doing it with the body that God gave you anyway.

So you're basically just buying a gift for your dad with your dad's money.

It doesn't really count.

Okay.

So the Holocaust was God buying himself a gift from Adolf Hitler.

Got it.

Got it.

Cool.

Yep.

Good point.

Yeah, that's where we're at.

Exactly.

And for everyone who watched Way Too Much Intelligence Squared in the early 2000s, like me, you'll remember this argument from William Lane Craig kicking his own ass against every possible atheist you've ever heard of.

Yeah,

but like, honestly, do you think he forgot he was supposed to be offering a second definition of faith in this bit?

He told us he didn't feel like he could do it justice right now, Noah.

Go on.

He can't do it.

Well, we watch.

Get Get off his chick.

And then we move on to the most do-over of all chapters in a book full of do-overs, chapter 12, faith.

I left

so hard.

I flipped back.

I was reading this on an iPad and I was like, did I get like a weird copy?

Did I

just faith is also chapter 12.

So now he starts us by warning that if you're not a Christian, this chapter is not going to make a lot of sense.

Oh, okay.

I would have loved that warning 12 chapters.

Honestly.

Right, but he starts by patting the word count of his fucking middle school essay book a little bit more.

He says exact words.

I want to start.

Wait, want to start by saying something that I would like everyone.

Wait, hold on.

Every space one

to notice carefully, it is this.

Yeah.

And then he writes his paragraph.

Yeah.

No, so he's, but he explains that when Christianity seems to make no sense at all, it's because you haven't leveled up as a Christian enough yet.

Yeah.

Almost exact words.

If you find something in a Christian book that doesn't make sense, don't like, don't be a dick about it, Heath.

Just fucking move on and my next fucking paragraph.

I'm your cousin.

You got to be nice to me.

It is this.

It begins now.

He also says that he's probably wrong about all the stuff he's going to say in this chapter.

Yeah.

He actually says, tell me when I go wrong.

And then as if he heard me say, you went wrong, it's wrong now.

He's like, wait, wait, wait, delete, delete, delete.

Christians, tell me if I'm wrong.

Others just

stay in child's pose.

Yeah, but he explains that the point of God's moral codes is that they're impossible to keep, which is what makes them

so effective.

You might be thinking Christianity is like a carrot at the end of a pole, and you're an ass for being Christian, but you're you're actually a car with a magnet at the end of the pole facing the car, and that does work.

Okay, hear me out, right?

Because he is kind of right about this if you accept Christianity to be true, right?

Because if God is perfect and died for your sins, then you obviously can't live up to his moral standard.

But what C.S.

Lewis doesn't seem to understand is that we don't accept Christianity's parameters.

Like if you're grading me on a scale from one to Phleam, and I don't believe Phleam is a number,

you probably think you're pretty close to Fleam is not a good argument against my position.

What would that mean, though?

Right, right.

I keep reading the whole passages in this fucking chapter, and

I realize I've taken no notes, and I'm just like, okay, in my defense, he didn't say anything at all there.

I did the exact same thing.

Literally, before I replaced this in my notes, I wrote and deleted sure hope Noah and Heath know what the fuck this paragraph is about.

Like three times, three times.

I wrote, sure hope Noah knows what the fuck this paragraph is about.

And I wrote, I don't know what this fucking paragraph is about.

Yeah.

The puzzle in a thunderstorm business model, ladies and gentlemen, we found it.

Right, but so, but he, he dances around the whole by works or by faith argument, right?

And he says, I have no right to speak on such questions.

And I'm like, you're the fucking author.

If you're not qualified to speak on that question, what the fuck are we even doing here man hey man you wrote a book about the perfect truth of your religion and you don't have a take on its largest controversy what he actually says that's like asking which blade and a pair of scissors is most necessary and

it's the second one man it's the second faith is cutting paper with scissors that are half invisible and nothing happens and you keep doing it over and over what are you talking about Yeah.

He's like, oh, how about this awesome Bible quote?

Quote, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who worketh in you.

And then he admits that he can't really make sense of that sentence.

Dude, you're the one who wrote this book.

You can just not talk about the stuff you don't know.

Like, we know you don't know, but we wouldn't know unless you write sections like this where you tell us.

I'm weeping in the shower, trembling with fear, holding a lawnmower blade.

Why did I write this?

Right, but he's like, but at any rate, this is as far as I can go on the works versus faith argument without getting stabbed.

So that's where the chapter is going to end.

So, on that note, we're going to close the final chapter of book three, but there is one more book to work our way through, starting in the next installment of

God-awful books

Before we call it tonight, I want to confirm to everybody who was surprised by the ad and tell everybody who skips the ad or listens to the ad-free Patreon version that yes, we are going to be taking an episode off for both Thanksgiving and Christmas this year.

It'll mark the first time we've ever taken episodes off.

But you know what?

Tis the season for self-care, damn it.

So sorry for any inconvenience that causes to your commute.

Anyway, that's all the blasphemy we've got for you tonight.

We'll be back in 10,022 minutes with more.

If you can't wait, that won't be on the lookout for a brand new episode of our Sister Show's Hot Frank Got Off on Wednesday debuting at 7 Eastern on Tuesday, and even a new episode of our Half Sister Show's Citation Did it debuting at Noon Eastern on Wednesday.

Obviously, I can't finish this sentence until I thank Heath Enright for keeping me sane, Eli Bosdick for making me look sane by comparison, and Lucinda Lucians for giving me a reason to stay sane in the first place.

I also want to thank Miranda from the Grain of Salticida podcast for providing this week's Farnsworth quote.

I didn't really get a sense of what it was about from her tease, but I'm intrigued nonetheless.

But most of all, of course, I want to thank this week's best people, but I hope you don't mind if I do it by name and stuff next week.

I just, I don't really feel that I'm up to giving anybody the compliment they deserve at the moment.

But sincerely, thank you.

Not a lot to be thankful for at the moment, but at least we've got you.

And if you'd like to be thanked alongside those fine people, you can make a per-episode donation at patreon.com slash scathing atheist, whereby you own early access to an extended average version of every episode.

Or you can make a one-time donation by clicking on the donate button on the right side of the homepage at scathingadeist.com.

And if you'd like to help, but you don't think you're complimentable enough for a money donation, you can also help a ton by leaving us a five-star review, telling a friend about the show, and following us on social media.

And speaking of social media, Tim Robertson handles that for us.

And our audio engineer is Morgan Clark, who also wrote all the music that was used in this episode, which was used with permission.

If you have questions, comments, or death research, you'll find all the contact info on the contact page at scanningalias.com.

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