Lost $100K on His First Flip—Now He Closes 30 Deals a Month and Owns a $20M Portfolio | Tommy Harr

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Speaker 24 If I could go back seven years ago and start telling people about my first house hack, I lived in my damn living room and rented all my bedrooms out.

Speaker 24 If people knew that more and like just document your journey and understand that this stuff doesn't happen overnight. It's a you stumble around.

Speaker 24 If you're like me and you didn't get help in the beginning, you stumble around for a year, two years, three years, and then you figure it out.

Speaker 24 Find somebody in your market or around the country that does what they say that they do, vet them out, give them your energy, and they will take you to the next level.

Speaker 24 So it's not as hard as you do it by yourself, but it's still going to be hard. Fail, fail often, fail fast, and get to the next level.
What is up, the Science Flipping family?

Speaker 24 Welcome back to another incredible episode. I have a really good friend of mine.
He is an absolute stud in the real estate space.

Speaker 24 If you are under 30 years old, you are going to to want to listen to this. And by the way, if you are over 30 years old and aren't quite where you want to be, you're going to want to listen to this.

Speaker 24 This man was able to start in the business at 23 years old.

Speaker 24 He was a property appraiser and now has built a multiple seven-figure a year transactional real estate business and owns over $20 million in assets. Tommy Harr is here.
What is up, dude?

Speaker 24 What's up, brother? It's been an honor to get to know you and been in the mastermind with you for a while, but eventually connected a few months ago and

Speaker 24 it's been a, it's been a great time. You quickly became one of my favorite people.
And so I was very excited to do this. And part of it is just,

Speaker 24 you know, I'm firmly believing in the your network, you know, the saying of network and net worth, but like really, I make more money by creating real true friendships, by real connections, not by spending money on ads.

Speaker 24 And so immediately we connected in Orlando. We just basically hung out the whole time.
We were in a, you know, suite, the basketball game,

Speaker 24 just talking about real estate. And I was just so impressed.

Speaker 24 I'm 43, so I have a lot of years on you, but to be able to be where you're at at 30 was so impressive that we just talked about this episode. We said, we got to have you on and teach.

Speaker 24 By the way, this is absolutely for people over 30.

Speaker 24 But I would also say, if you are under 30, I want this to inspire you to know what is real.

Speaker 24 And then if you're over 30, I want this to be like one of those, okay, if this guy can do this, you know, it's about time to kick my ass in gear.

Speaker 24 So you quit your job, you went all in, you did your first fix and flip and lost six figures. Let's start there because I think most people are terrified to even get going.

Speaker 24 I don't think, I know, most people are terrified to even get going in the space for the exact example that you're about to give. You got into the business.

Speaker 24 You said, hey, uncle, let's go flip a home together. Let's do this.
It'll be our first. We're going to win, get rich.
And you lost six figures, right? That is why people don't do it.

Speaker 24 And then what I want to leave here with everybody is understanding Tommy's still in the game. Tommy's making multiple seven figures a year.
He has 20 million in his assets after that loss.

Speaker 24 So let's start with that loss. Yeah, my uncle approached me right before I graduated college, which was 2017.
And he was like, hey, do you want to invest in real estate?

Speaker 24 And I said, no, I'm going to work for my pop. So that's where the home inspection background came from.
I've always been working with him.

Speaker 24 And then I started doing inspections for investors, doing draws. So I went back to him and I was like, hey, we should think about flipping houses.
I've seen all these people win.

Speaker 24 So long story short, we ended up buying this house in Columbus.

Speaker 24 Columbus is not an expensive market, but we bought this five-bed, six-bath house for $420,000. It took us 18 months to fix it up and resell it.
And we ended up losing $100,000 on that.

Speaker 24 So the reason we lost so much money was because the contractor I hired, I should have fired him within a couple of weeks. The scope of work was super gray and vague.

Speaker 24 So there were change orders everywhere. We didn't even like say who did labor, who did materials.
So it was just like the classic, the blind leading the blind.

Speaker 24 And now I know that you just hire fast or you hire slow, you fire fast.

Speaker 24 You got to really learn to set expectations properly, not just for contractors, but anybody you go into business with, even new like business relationships and friendships. And then stick by it.

Speaker 24 Like if it says to fire the person, fire them. You have to stick to the things you lay out.

Speaker 24 So learned a lot of really good lessons during that first flip for sure. Contractors forever will be the bane of my existence.

Speaker 24 It doesn't matter how many years I do this.

Speaker 24 There's always something that pops up. You're like, I cannot believe this is happening.
Right. Yeah.

Speaker 24 And that's why I really encourage people. I'm not like a wholesaling coach.
That's not who I am per se, but I do believe to minimize your risk, wholesaling is the best way to get some money flowing.

Speaker 24 Would you agree? Absolutely. You know, listen, I'm, I've done thousands and thousands of transactions.
I've done thousands of wholesales, fix and flips, and I've done a lot of buy and holds.

Speaker 24 You know, given the place that you're at right now, what is most of your business made up of? And then why? Because I know, like me, again, dude, I'm so impressed with you.

Speaker 24 This is why you're one of my favorite people so fast is because you are essentially me 13 years ago, but you've done it at 30 instead of being 43, right?

Speaker 24 You're wholesaling at fix and flipping or buying and holding.

Speaker 24 Talk about that. Talk about what you're currently doing.
Like, what does it look like right now? And then why? Why do you wholesale? Why do you fix and flip? Why do you buy and hold?

Speaker 24 Why do you make those decisions?

Speaker 24 Yeah, we're primarily, I would say, like 75%, actually, it's probably 50-50, 50-50 wholesale to flip, and then maybe like a 5% if you can go to 105 holding rentals, mostly for tax purposes, just because the market I'm in, Columbus, Ohio, the cash flow just isn't there in the market rate environment when we're shooting this, high sixes, mid-sevens, even into the eights, sometimes on a DSCR standpoint.

Speaker 24 So we just decided that we are going to go continuing to go all in on wholesaling and and just being really good at finding really good deals.

Speaker 24 So we're doing anywhere from 10 to 15, sometimes 12 deals a month on the wholesaling side direct to seller. And then we're doing another 15 to 20, 25 flips at any given time.

Speaker 24 So we've split it in half. We kind of divided the businesses and we run them like that.
Because before we would wholesale and then we would buy our own wholesale deals from the company.

Speaker 24 We wouldn't pay a wholesale fee, but I've got sales guys over there. So we were starving that business of cash over and over again.

Speaker 24 And we realized we were making less on flips than we projected that we were going to make. I mean, that sounds pretty normal, but that's a good lesson for people.
Be super conservative. Yeah.

Speaker 24 And you're never going to make as much as you think. So we just look back and we're like, we know we should have made more money.
Where was it at? So it was dividing out the wholesaling.

Speaker 24 First, first thing on direct to seller is wholesale. And then if we think we can get more or it's just a weird deal, we'll take it down.
But that's kind of the mix of the business right now.

Speaker 24 I love it. And so

Speaker 24 what are the marketing strategies that you're doing that? Because Because at volume, right, to do anything in multiple seven figures, you have to have a volume of leads.

Speaker 24 You have to have a dialed-in sales team. Talk to me about where you're getting the leads.
You know, I was one of the proponents to go national. When COVID hit, I was like, go national, go virtual.

Speaker 24 You don't need to be local. You don't need to do this in your own market.
You stuck to your market, which is a great market, by the way.

Speaker 24 and just hunkered down.

Speaker 24 I was one of the proponents to say, go nationwide PPC, right? Go wide with your cold calling, all these things.

Speaker 24 I think people are slowly starting to come back to like, hey, stick to one market, probably your market, right? People are coming back there. So talk about how you built your lead gen.

Speaker 24 What does that look like incrementally, like percentage basis? And then talk about like the sales team and how you're converting the leads that you are getting.

Speaker 24 Yeah. So like, like you said, I love the idea of going deeper, not wider.
I want to dominate my backyard.

Speaker 24 And then if I feel like there's no more opportunity to go out, people just scram out too fast and they're like, oh, it's not working. And they they make an excuse.
It's usually excuse-based.

Speaker 24 It's not really data driven.

Speaker 24 So the way that we are going direct to seller for the last six years, we've been primarily cold calling and texting. So now texting is a little bit on the way side.

Speaker 24 So we're heavy on the cold call and we just implemented TV leads. So I started TV leads.
three, four months ago. They've been crushing.
So we're doubling down on that.

Speaker 24 And then we're doing some back-end direct mail on the niche things that come in and leads that don't convert quickly on that side.

Speaker 24 So to really create that strong brand, like, hey, make sure you watch us on the news if we're talking to the cold call. So everything's kind of now being symbiotic.
Yeah.

Speaker 24 But we've got two full-time sales direct-to-seller acquisitions. We've got a full-time Dispo.
We've got a full-time TC.

Speaker 24 We've got a bunch of VAs on the back end doing our data management, our lead management.

Speaker 24 And then recently we've changed our outbound cold calling to mostly hired VAs, mostly in Egypt, to we're hiring young guys because of social media. They want to come work for us.

Speaker 24 so we're doing a lot of like boiler room type uh cold calling on really really niche lists that we've had for years and years and stacked in rei sift so we're getting really really good results on that just because we realize if you want to go deeper you got to get better so just not doing things that other people aren't doing and committing to it it's been a it's been a really good challenge it's been fun and then we also have a jv acquisition so anything business to business relationship he's doing anything that comes to me through instagram i'm i'm handing it off uh Anything from wholesalers, realtors, building relationships to where we're not actually spending the marketing dollars, but we've got the human capital going after those.

Speaker 24 Yeah.

Speaker 24 So talk about

Speaker 24 your

Speaker 24 internal boiler room. I love that model because you're able to, you know, I created a REI live specifically for like the newer people where it's essentially that.

Speaker 24 We do it over Zoom and I'm making the calls or watching you do it. It's a boiler room feel.
Talk about like, what lists are you using for that?

Speaker 24 Like what are those niche lists you're really focusing on? And then, you know, what are you seeing as a result of that boiler room in office feel?

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Speaker 10 If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required.

Speaker 14 Tremphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis.

Speaker 17 Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur.

Speaker 19 Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis.

Speaker 17 Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine.

Speaker 21 Explore what's possible.

Speaker 16 Ask your doctor about Tremphaya today.

Speaker 12 Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tremphayaradio.com.

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Speaker 24 So number one is we're calling probates and we're pulling those directly from the county the days that they're dropping public record. So we have VAs going in, scrubbing.

Speaker 24 I mean, this is gold stuff if you guys are trying to actually get.

Speaker 24 niche data pulling those hand skip tracing them and then pushing them into a cold caller and we're using smartphone we use four line dialers and we're calling those around the clock and then those guys are in in the office.

Speaker 24 So our acquisition guys can help train them. They can help with word tracks.

Speaker 24 And then, if there's a hot transfer, we just hot transfer them over, which cold calling, it doesn't matter that much speed to lead, but it definitely helps hearing the conversation and pushing it over right away.

Speaker 24 We've had,

Speaker 24 I think, like 10 deals in the last two or three months directly just from those live transfers from our cold callers. We're paying those cold callers $300 a week.

Speaker 24 So $300 a week, if they close a deal, they get a bonus, but it's more about the being in the office.

Speaker 24 They're younger guys usually, and they want to just feel and see what it's like to run a real estate company.

Speaker 24 So you can even do it for free if you've got, but it'll, but you have to build a brand to do that. People are reaching out now.
Hey, how can I work for you?

Speaker 24 And that's one of the ways that we're doing it is putting interns into every single one of our businesses. And we're about to do that

Speaker 24 on the dispo side, the junior disposition and kind of do that same model.

Speaker 24 So what would you tell the solopreneur? Like if you said right now, here, dude, here is your game playing every day.

Speaker 24 You do this, you pull this list, you make these calls, you drive these neighborhoods.

Speaker 24 What would you suggest for the solopreneur,

Speaker 24 even if they've done a handful of deals, but they haven't been able to get consistent at it? Like, what would you tell that person? Someone who's never done a deal and or

Speaker 24 they've done a couple, but they don't really have consistency on it. Yeah, never done a deal.
I mean, pull a list from, let's call it prop stream, get a $99 a month account, pull a

Speaker 24 pull a high equity list, free and clear list, or a absentee, and get on a four-line dialer. So you just got to learn how to just get the the nose.

Speaker 24 You got to learn how to just get over your fear of being on the phones. Really, that's all it is is training yourself mentally and then continue to work through that.

Speaker 24 But if you're a solopreneur and you're actually making money, you've actually done deals, you shouldn't be spending your time cold calling. You should hire that cold calling out.

Speaker 24 You should be using some sort of virtual assistant to drive that lead flow on the front side. So you're actually talking to warm leads instead of,

Speaker 24 and it kind of backtrack a little bit.

Speaker 24 You should be doing 500 to 900 ish dials a day on the solo side and that should drive one to two leads a day if you get good so are you do you want to spend three four hours on a dialer and get told no all the time or get hang-ups or do you want to be on the side where you're actually picking up warm leads the the difference between those two is going to be money do you have the money to spend on that marketing that's right and most people knew they don't and maybe they have some money but i'm not a big advocate of telling them to go spend it right i would rather sweat equity in make the dials get the four-line dialer.

Speaker 24 You're using smartphone, right? Yep. Okay.
And there's other dialers out there. There's Mojo cells and there's cold tools and whatever.
So I'm totally indifferent on who and what you use.

Speaker 24 They're all the same. Yeah.
But at the end of the day, I believe what you believe, which I believe in going wide. We have a mutual friend Gene right at ISP to lead.

Speaker 24 He has different plans, and I think it's brilliant. I tell him this all the time.
I was actually teaching to his community. He has the more expensive exclusive lead.

Speaker 24 Then he has like coupon codes that they're not exclusive leads, but they're way less money, right? I believe in spending less money and having more lead options. I don't care if it's exclusive, me.

Speaker 24 Yeah. Right.
There's some people that love the exclusivity. No one else is working it.

Speaker 24 My, my true opinion, I don't know if I can totally prove it, but like that same person that they found, that same person went to other websites and been around somewhere else, maybe not by them.

Speaker 24 but on other they may have gone to your personal website opted in now i feel like this is exclusive because of the, I'm the only person in their world, but they also are talking to you because they found you organically.

Speaker 24 So I say that to say, I believe in everyone going wide. I want you guys to talk to as many people as possible, right? Our boy Brian Danius talks about it, right?

Speaker 24 Like more conversations, the better off you're going to be because then, and where I want to take this conversation for you,

Speaker 24 then you have a sales cycle. Then you have a, are you a good salesperson or not, right? There's two levers that really matter, marketing and lead generating, and then sales.

Speaker 24 One is usually broken. Most people at our level, at your and my level, most people actually feel like it's, I need more leads.
Yeah.

Speaker 24 I actually will tell those same people that have been around and still are act, like you actually probably should be focusing on your conversion cycle more than driving in more leads. Yep.
I agree.

Speaker 24 I agree. And so.
talk to us about your sales cycle. Talk to us about what you do, how many leads you're getting to a deal, how much are you spending cost per deal right now?

Speaker 24 Like, give us some of the KPIs of what you run your team meetings. Like, hey, guys,

Speaker 24 you know, we have this many leads coming in. We're expecting this much conversion.
We're expecting this dollar cost. We're expecting, what are you looking at when you're running those meetings?

Speaker 24 Yeah, so I will caveat and say my business partner, Andy, he runs most of the sales stuff, but I do know the numbers.

Speaker 24 So we're about 30 leads to contract right now and then 27 leads to closed on the cold calling side.

Speaker 24 We're one to eight or 10 on the TV lead side so those are quicker they're ready to close faster but they're more expensive i think we're about four thousand dollars uh cost to close on the tv and we're about twelve hundred dollars for the cold call but the sales cycle like you said is way longer so we're touching these people 20 30 times maybe more and it's about four to six months on on those to get them closed yeah right so it's been way quicker that is that is the challenge that most people don't understand is the reason why people like myself or you like i do tv direct mail uh PPL, I stopped doing the PPC because partly I'm slowing down the whole national thing.

Speaker 24 I'm choosing the markets I want to be in.

Speaker 24 But people always want the fast button. That fast button a lot of times means cutting a check, right? I mean,

Speaker 24 do you know the number you're spending every month? What do you spend every month on?

Speaker 24 We're spending $15,000 alone on TV plus probably a $2,500 agency. So any between $15,000 and $20,000.

Speaker 24 And then we're spending another $10,000 to $12,000 on cold calling, CRM, skip tracing, all that stuff. So we're super lean.
We're really good with our data.

Speaker 24 We're not pulling a lot of lists all the time because we've been in one market for a long time. So nothing's really that new.
It's just recirculating the data.

Speaker 24 Well, you're spending $30,000 a month,

Speaker 24 roughly, right? $25, $30,000 a month.

Speaker 24 That is the fast button. That's what I tell people.
Oh, you want it right now? Then just pay your way there.

Speaker 24 So it's the same equivalent of like Disney World, right? I go to Disney World a ton because I have my kids.

Speaker 24 I buy the FastPass every time. It is ridiculously expensive.
It is $200 a day. Plus, you have your normal ticket, which is like $200.
So essentially, it's $400 for the day, right? Just the tickets.

Speaker 24 That's not the foods. It's not everything else.

Speaker 24 Then there's another level in Disney World where you can have an actual escort, like a VIP escort that takes you behind the scenes. You're not in the crowds.

Speaker 24 So last time we went, I paid six grand for that person, right? Because I'm like, dude, I don't, I want convenience. I want speed.
I want now.

Speaker 24 I bring up the analogy to say the same thing you're saying is people need to understand if you want that level of speed of getting your first deal and or getting consistent deal flow, you have to be ready to cut the check.

Speaker 24 Agreed. Agreed.
And that also doesn't include commissions too. So, I mean, we're stroking huge checks on the commission side.
I mean, our guys are making at least $10,000 to $15,000 a month.

Speaker 24 So you got to be ready to spend the money. But also, if you're listening to this and you're like, I'm not to that point yet, don't spend the money unless you're ready to.
That's right.

Speaker 24 You got to get good on the phones.

Speaker 24 You have to make every single lead count especially if you're doing out or inbound so those are just truly expensive you can quote unquote waste cold call leads because they're really cheap we're like 35 to 45 a lead right now uh dollars wise so like if you say the wrong things on the phone you're not throwing away a five thousand dollar ppc lead that's really important that's right And so that's the challenge that I find most people is they start spending some money.

Speaker 24 Like I have one of my coaching students that he's made a couple bucks. So he's like, all right, Justin, what do I start spending money on?

Speaker 24 I'm like, bro, you just got to be ready to spend money over like a six-month run. Like, do not get scared on month two or month three that you haven't made money back because you need a sales cycle.

Speaker 24 You need to bring in the leads, nurture the leads, and then convert. And so I tell people all the time that, like, if you aren't there to run for six months, don't do it.

Speaker 24 Put in the sweat equity, right? I mean, even, even something like

Speaker 24 iSpeeds, their program, like relatively cheap leads for 30 bucks or whatever they are, like, fine, do that. Don't go spend 15 grand on TV for one month and freak out and then go, I'm screwed, right?

Speaker 24 And then blame, and then blame TV.

Speaker 24 And then blame TV. Oh, my market.
GB Edge. Exactly.
Right. That's, that's not the game.
So speak to the person that might be growing a little bit.

Speaker 24 You know, the transition between getting your first handful of deals and then growth. Right.
So you and I are part of masterminds together.

Speaker 24 You know, I'll go and speak on scaling and growing and scaling, but scaling is on the other side of this, right? You're at the point of scale, Tommy's at the point of scale.

Speaker 24 Most people, most are either just getting going or potentially growing, right? They've done five, 10, 15 deals, they've made a couple bucks, they have some confidence. Now, we need them to grow.

Speaker 24 Their business needs to grow. Talk to that guy or girl who's trying to grow their business.

Speaker 4 For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.

Speaker 6 matters.

Speaker 7 Trimphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

Speaker 10 Trimphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks.

Speaker 10 If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Trimphaya, proper training is required.

Speaker 14 Trimphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis.

Speaker 17 Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur.

Speaker 19 Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis.

Speaker 17 Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine.

Speaker 21 Explore what's possible.

Speaker 16 Ask your doctor about Tremphaya today.

Speaker 12 Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tremphayaradio.com.

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Speaker 24 Yeah, I mean, I would say the first thing you need to do is specifically like a wholesaling company, you need to outsource everything, outsource internally,

Speaker 24 everything that's not sales right away. So a virtual assistant is typically going to be your best option.

Speaker 24 So somebody that's going to be able to pull your lists for you, do your back-end data, do all the busy kind of BS work that you have to do in a wholesaling wholesaling business to where you're only on the phones.

Speaker 24 So you're on the phones. And then once you're closing a bunch of deals a month, let's call it three to five deals a month, maybe less, then you hire an acquisition.

Speaker 24 But know when you bring somebody on, then you're taking a couple steps back to buy your time in the future. So you're not going to be closing the deals.

Speaker 24 You might even wait, you're, some of those deals might not close that you are going to be on the phones with.

Speaker 24 So you got to just be okay with taking a couple steps back, knowing that in the future, it's going to be worth it. And then also as you're right now doing it by yourself, building SOPs for everything.

Speaker 24 So as you're on the computer in the morning, loom LOM your screen and just talk into it like a third grader.

Speaker 24 And those are going to be the way you train your employees because most people, once again, they bring on a VA or a team member and they get so busy that doing other things that they're...

Speaker 24 the VA ends up sucking, quote unquote, this isn't going to be on camera, but they suck.

Speaker 24 But it's really because you don't have enough time to train them and you're not giving them the time and to nurture. And we've learned that just so many times.

Speaker 24 We've helped people hire VAs, and it's more into, you have to, you have to be ready for those people. So build those SOPs, build those training docs, and do it slowly.

Speaker 24 Everybody wants to scale and scale fast, but

Speaker 24 it's all about people and processes, and it takes time.

Speaker 24 Yeah. You know, listen, I've done this business for almost two decades, this business, right? Yeah.
And I think there's a lot of people that don't give enough,

Speaker 24 I don't want to say respect to it, but like credence is a word that comes like you can't measure the stick to me.

Speaker 24 You can't, right? I've done it for two decades. Yeah, it's a long time.
And so like even you who've done this now for eight years, nine years, right? Eight, nine years, I have a decade on you. Yeah.

Speaker 24 I've built it so I don't have to even be in my meetings, right? Like now I enjoy what I do, but like imagine what you've done in eight years and imagine putting another eight on it.

Speaker 24 Oh, yeah, it's going to be good. Where are you going to be? Right.
But people don't look at it that the way. They look at it like, oh, what happened this month or last month?

Speaker 24 Or how have I done so far this year? We're in April. Like, guys, stop.

Speaker 24 Like, what I would hope to encourage people listening and watching this right now is like, give yourself the runway to actually win, to be the next Tommy Harr, to be the next Justin Cole.

Speaker 24 Because if you start to follow Tommy Harr, and by the way, go follow Tommy right now. Like, literally, one of my favorite humans.
Go to his Instagram. Probably is the easiest place.
What?

Speaker 24 Tommy Har5 or 05. Yeah.
Yep. Tommy Harr05.
Go to his Instagram. He will help you in all ways possible.

Speaker 24 But you have to understand he's eight years into it. So if you're less than eight years and you're in eight days, eight minutes, eight months, give yourself the eight-year runway to measure Tommy.

Speaker 24 Don't give yourself eight days, eight weeks, eight months. Give the runway he gave himself, right?

Speaker 24 Like we talked about when we started, his first deal, he lost six figures on, but he didn't give up on that. He didn't get knocked out.
He got knocked down. No one likes that, but he kept going.

Speaker 24 It took me 24 months to make a real dollar in the investing space. Now, I was making money with my dad doing home inspections.
I was learning.

Speaker 24 So, like, another thing that people don't talk about, and it's the same type of concept, is career capital. So, how long are you going to actually stick to something?

Speaker 24 And are you taking something out of it? So, if you're in a job right now, what can you take out of that to go into real estate investing and crush? For me, it was home inspections.

Speaker 24 So, I was learning a real trade that nobody can be taken from me. And the common theme is houses.
And the thing that wholesalers and sometimes even flippers miss is the fucking house.

Speaker 24 Like, how is that?

Speaker 24 And that's kind of the light bulb in my head was like, these people don't know anything about houses. That's right.
This is crazy.

Speaker 24 So it was kind of just this light bulb that everybody was coming to their GC or their inspector or their realtor to help them talk about the house. But they learned the marketing, the sales.

Speaker 24 But the house was the big piece that they were missing. So I was like, oh, this is the angle I'm going to take.
I'm going to run with this. And this is going to be my differentiator.

Speaker 24 But it has to, it takes time to build that. Like I was a terrible real estate investor for three years.
I was just fumbling around. I didn't, I didn't have a mentor at the time.

Speaker 24 I just was, thought I could do it on my own. And had I had a mentor when I first started, I would be way ahead of where I'm at now.

Speaker 24 And I wouldn't have lost 100 grand my first flip because they would look me in my eyes and say, Tommy, you're an absolute idiot if you buy that deal.

Speaker 24 So it's just the more you know, believing in things, believing in yourself, and also having somebody get you over that hump.

Speaker 24 Yeah, listen, there's, you know, this isn't meant to sell coaching, but you guys all need coaching. I don't care who has, right? If it's Tommy, great.

Speaker 24 If it's me, if it's anyone else, if it's like, but if you are going to go try to do this alone, then you're just mistaken. I mean, there's everyone should be recognizing that.

Speaker 24 There's always the people that say you can get all the information for free on YouTube, but no one's there to hold you accountable.

Speaker 24 No one's there to tactically tell you what lists and when and how and conversion. Like, no one is there.

Speaker 24 There is a difference between, you know, picking up a book and several books right in your head because you can't reach them

Speaker 24 and reading it. And then that same author walking you through exactly how to do those things, right?

Speaker 24 That is the difference is information versus tactical education and then you can go implement, right? And so

Speaker 24 everyone here should be doing that. Otherwise, you will make big mistakes.
The same reason why I invest in coaching each and every year is I've scaled my businesses now where

Speaker 24 I'm at a level I've never been at, right?

Speaker 24 I've never been here. So how the fuck do I expect to be able to keep growing and keep going up this mountain when I'm already at the highest place I've ever been?

Speaker 24 I have no line of sight how to keep climbing the mountain that I'm climbing because this is the highest, right? So just understand the perspective of it. It's usually an ego thing.

Speaker 24 Like your situation is not unique to everybody else in the world. Like somebody's been where me and you have both been at.
That's right. Because I'm in the same position as you.

Speaker 24 And I'm like, okay, can we go fumble around and figure this out ourselves? Sure.

Speaker 24 But why not just lessen the learning curve and go pay somebody for their time that can say, do this, this, this, this, and it'll get you to the next level. Right.

Speaker 24 But you actually, like, there's two different people. They, they pay for it and they don't implement it.
And there's like, oh, okay.

Speaker 24 But then those people actually take heed to the advice and they run with it. And those are the people that continue to grow.
Yeah. And it's funny because I just got off the phone.

Speaker 24 This guy, his name's Philip. He's in my REILive.co community.
So he's a newer side.

Speaker 24 He just kept hanging in there, right? Like REI Live, I've only had REI Live for like four months, right?

Speaker 24 And he wasn't seeing the traction he wanted. He wasn't getting the results he wanted.
And then I would kind of call him out on the calls and be like, hey, bro, did you make the calls? And

Speaker 24 he hits me up today. He's like, bro, I've actually got two deals in escrow with buyers, a non-refundable earnest money.
And I called him personally, right? He's not a one-on-one coach.

Speaker 24 I don't usually do that. Like, if you came in and said, Tom, you know, if we had a one-on-one, I'd call you personally.

Speaker 24 I call it because I just wanted him to understand the value that he created for himself was the proof that he could do it if he just kept going. Right.
If he just kept doing the thing. Right.

Speaker 24 And so it's just, it's really impactful for people to realize you got to hire a coach and then keep doing what they're advising you. And listen, there's plenty of bad coaches out there.

Speaker 24 So I don't know what to say about that.

Speaker 24 But if the coach is reputable and has been there before and you can look at their resume and say, okay, this guy or girl has done what I'm trying to do, then listen to him and act on it.

Speaker 24 Cause like like I hired a coach this year because

Speaker 24 same thing I told you, like in businesses, I have four different verticals I'm running right now. I'm at the peak of all of them.

Speaker 24 I'm like, I need someone to help me operationally and understand how to build a business higher. I heard the rock say, when you reach to the top of the mountain, build more mountain.

Speaker 24 Right. Like, and I thought that was brilliant.
Right. Yeah.
Is, yeah, well, now this new mountain I have to continue to climb, I don't know it.

Speaker 24 So it's, it's an easy investment to say, hey, dude, I need to bring you on to help me get there. Um, yeah.

Speaker 24 And in the beginning of somebody's journey, if somebody's brand new here listening, like it does work. That was the thing that kind of got me through the first failure.

Speaker 24 And one, I'm not afraid of failure still. Like, I still fail all the time.
I still have deals that lose money. I mean, we, we talked about that when we were together last.
Yeah. But

Speaker 24 if I'm listening to, let's say, a podcast like this, how many episodes have you had?

Speaker 24 800. So if it is 800 episodes and everybody on there is a successful real estate investor, that you, you just suck at what you're doing now, or you've not been in it long enough.

Speaker 24 So reassess what you have going on and do it better, but don't quit because this, this, this vehicle does work. And that was my mindset after that.
I was like, okay, I know real estate works.

Speaker 24 I've seen it. I know people out locally.
I've been exposed to the fact that it does work. I just suck.
I need to figure out a different angle for this.

Speaker 24 So I went back home, moved in with my parents again at age 24, and I just reassessed. I spent my last couple dollars on postcards, started wholesaling.

Speaker 24 Those, that deal didn't, I got three calls from $800 worth of postcards. One of them ended up being a deal that I couldn't sell.

Speaker 24 So I raised private money from a family friend, flipped that house, made 50 grand, split it 50-50 with her, and then moved on. But if you quit after that first one, it's done.
You're over.

Speaker 24 And you wouldn't then now have, in my shoes, $20 million worth of real estate or flipped over 300 houses and wholesale over 300 houses. Just impossible.
You got to keep going.

Speaker 24 Do people need to be buying rentals now or first or should they be focusing on just the transactional side? Oh, transaction.

Speaker 24 And I'm always speaking from the eyes of somebody that has no money in the beginning because that's how I started. That's right.

Speaker 24 You have to start with your active income streams, wholesaling or flipping. Those are going to be the ways to buy rentals.

Speaker 24 But I think in the beginning, it's also good to learn all of the exit strategies because

Speaker 24 I have a finance degree from the University of Dayton in Ohio.

Speaker 24 They never taught me about debt. They never taught me about good debt.
They never taught me about cash flow on assets.

Speaker 24 So as I was learning about this stuff, my mind was just open to this, oh my God, this is crazy.

Speaker 24 You mean you can get debt on houses and people pay you rent and you pay that down and you make cash flow on it and they appreciate in value.

Speaker 24 So when I learned that, I was like, this is the greatest fucking thing in the entire world. That's what I want long term.
That's the way I'm setting up my family.

Speaker 24 But you will go broke fast in an interest rate environment like today, especially trying to just stuff rental properties into a portfolio. You have to have an accumulation phase and you have to have

Speaker 24 an active income stream to get you to that point. But in five, probably 10 years, you look back and be like, that was cool.

Speaker 24 I now can restructure debt and I don't really have to work as hard if I don't want to.

Speaker 24 That's what the 10, you have to have a 10-year time horizon.

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Speaker 24 Yeah,

Speaker 24 you're exactly right. I think, you know, my biggest mistake I've ever made, and I say this all the time from stage, is it wasn't the seven figures I lost under development.

Speaker 24 It wasn't the seven figures I lost on apartments and things of that nature. My biggest mistake wasn't buying rentals or portfolio properties sooner.
I'm not talking about at scale.

Speaker 24 I'm not talking about the apartments. I'm not talking about one a month.
I'm talking about like one a year,

Speaker 24 right? Like just something

Speaker 24 because then you can start to build equity. And you talked about repositioning debt.
If I were to buy one a year 18 years ago and never sped that up, one a year, I would have 18 homes.

Speaker 24 A handful of those homes probably would be owned free and clear because I would have gotten like 15-year mortgages on them. Sure.
Many of them would have 75, 60, 50% equity.

Speaker 24 Then Then I can go reposition debt on some homes that are free and clear, put more debt back on them because they're performing assets, take that money, potentially put it in my pocket tax-free, but then just go double down.

Speaker 24 And now all of a sudden I'll have 36 rentals instead of 18. And it happened overnight because for the last 18 years, I've been stacking them up.
Right.

Speaker 24 It's really a slower game and it's definitely not sexy.

Speaker 24 Now, I tell you, as someone that has a lot of rentals, it is not by any chance passive, even when when you have property management groups at all yeah yeah that's the stuff i fell in love with man uh just the idea of reposition i never understood repositioning the money too like the tax-free money you can get and i truthfully i've been buying rentals for seven years now started with a house hack then another house hack and just started accumulating I'm not even to the repositioning phase yet.

Speaker 24 Like I've just been accumulating these rentals, knowing that in the future, now I'm stuck, I air quote, stuck on some debt that I bought, like some property I bought in 19 to 21 that have amazing debt on them.

Speaker 24 And I struggle between, do I pull that out tax-free?

Speaker 24 But the stuff I have for the last four or five years, I'm going to restructure at some point, but you have to accumulate that equity to be able to do it.

Speaker 24 And you don't have to do it with down payments.

Speaker 24 If you, like we talk about active income, you can go and be an amazing wholesaler, but in the back of your mind, knowing that every now and again, the really good deals, buy them with private money or hard money, fix them up like everybody talks about, refinance out.

Speaker 24 Like that game is really real. I know people kind of gamify it on Instagram and online, but it is life-changing.

Speaker 24 It does work, but you have to learn how to find good deals and you have to learn construction.

Speaker 24 No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Yep.
And that's what I've seen after almost, you know, 12 years of coaching individuals, the construction component. Yep.
That's where a lot of people drop the ball.

Speaker 24 And I mean, listen, even today, 18 years in, I get contractors that like do some nasty shit to me and totally lie and, you know, whatever so some of it out of your control to some extent but understanding construction really can make or break a deal i did a training last night to i don't know a couple hundred investors and basically i said there's three ways to actually get more deals and one of the three is understanding how to underwrite the construction component absolutely because for someone who's going to be doing a rental that construction component might be way less than someone who's going to be doing a fix and flip or even a burr right yep so if they're going to be doing a burr you're going to probably want to put in a good amount of money.

Speaker 24 It's going to be the same thing as kind of a fix and flip because you got to force the appreciation so the bank can take you out. Absolutely.

Speaker 24 But if they're just buying a rental, like a normal rental, not necessarily burring it, then your construction budget might be like 10 grand that they're just going to put in to paint some stuff, rip out some carpet, replace the carpet.

Speaker 24 Like you won't have a big construction budget. It's not a burr.

Speaker 24 But if you underwrite the construction rate, you'll convert more deals because even as a wholesaler, there are so many landlord-type buyers out there. That's why I I love Columbus.

Speaker 24 That's why I love price points. You know, Cleveland right now, we've done a lot of deals with Cleveland, not my favorite city, but the price points are just good flips and good rentals.
Yes, they are.

Speaker 24 Right? And so I would tell people, understanding construction is really valuable. I will tell you now, my,

Speaker 24 what I call Bubba Math.

Speaker 24 If you are going to be doing what I call like a repair remodel, paint and carpet, simple, nothing like you're not moving while like repair, $30 square foot.

Speaker 24 You can bank on that's pretty close to where you're going to end up if you're doing a rehab new kitchen new bathrooms right new paint $50 square foot if you're doing what I call a redo this is where you probably got to redo the electrical probably got to replace the windows probably got to move some walls uh probably got to do like just you're fucking redoing the home right that's $70 square foot in most markets that is not going to be true in San Francisco or you know Miami like it's going going to be more expensive.

Speaker 24 But if you're in Columbus, if you're in Charlotte, if you're in Oklahoma City, like these are the markets that 30, 50, 70 is a good baseline understanding of where you're going to underwrite that to.

Speaker 24 And then depending upon like Cleveland's a great rental market, you're probably not doing a lot of 70s. You're probably really a lot closer to 30s, depending upon the condition.

Speaker 24 Some of these houses are terrible, but.

Speaker 24 You got to understand that and you'll do more deals. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 24 I mean, I've gotten so many deals just because I pointed things out to sellers that they had never even heard of because you get in this mindset that they own the house.

Speaker 24 So they know everything about it. Right.
And that's just not true. So if you can be a Swiss Army knife and you can.

Speaker 24 educate them on actually what's going on and not be sharky, like you can actually educate them and find good deals. Or if you're buying from a wholesaler, most wholesalers know nothing about a house.

Speaker 24 They've stumbled into a deal, especially new ones. They stumbled into this deal.
They might be off.

Speaker 24 Instead of telling them that they're an idiot and they're off on their numbers, typically it's overvaluing the ARV,

Speaker 24 undervaluing the rehab. So there's no margin.
Educate them on the house and tell them why this is it. This is.

Speaker 24 Because in a market like I'm at in Columbus, I've got houses built in the 1800s where they literally went down to the quarry, grabbed rocks and built a house out of them. Yep.
All the way to 2025. So

Speaker 24 you have to be able to look at that and be like, okay, I've got knob and tube. I've got galvanized plumbing.
I've got cast iron. I've got plaster versus a 70s house doesn't have any of that.

Speaker 24 So you got to be be able to gauge buyer's risk. You got to understand that there's different margins with those deals and you got to be able to evaluate the deals better.

Speaker 24 But it all starts with age of house and the construction of the homes. Amen.
I see you're wearing our boy Tony. Are you 10x TV too? Yes, sir.
I love our guy, Tony. He runs my TV.
He runs your TV.

Speaker 24 Anyone who's got some budget, 10X TV, that's the name of the game. Tony Javier, they're phenomenal.
Look them up. They're great.
Say Tommy and Justin sent you

Speaker 24 crushing on the TV side. It's been fun.
I didn't put my ugly bug on there, just me. I've got a nine-month-old and a beautiful blonde wife.

Speaker 24 So I put them two in the commercial with me, and it's been absolutely crushing. But

Speaker 24 that was my differentiator. I had

Speaker 24 two other people that were better.

Speaker 24 What is your commercial say? I mean, is it like we're a family trying to buy, like, do you, is it a different script? Yeah, it's family.

Speaker 24 We're a family-owned company here in Columbus, and we buy any, any type of house, cash offer, kind of, kind of the basics, but that hits.

Speaker 24 Oh, yeah. That hits.

Speaker 24 Gosh. See, again, I'm doing it in a market that I don't live in.
So I still do that well, but I can't say I'm a family-owned company here.

Speaker 24 And honestly, I don't go to the, I don't go to the actual appointments. My acquisition manager does,

Speaker 24 obviously. But I mean,

Speaker 24 yeah, we, we, we try to say, I mean, that's in our cold call pitch, local, like once again, dominate backyard. That's kind of the, been the bread and butter.
I love that.

Speaker 24 And I think more people are getting back to that. And I'll tell you another thing that even I'm considering diving in deeper again is direct mail.
I pulled back from direct mail when COVID hit.

Speaker 24 And now I'm like, God, I think there's a lot of people like me that pulled back. Yeah.
And they still haven't really jumped back in. I'm going to go pretty hard in again on the direct mail.
Yeah.

Speaker 24 I mean, we use ReSimply as our CRM. And we did a presentation at Family.
And the mastermind that me and Justin are together.

Speaker 24 And he said that year over year, direct mail is the best deal-generating lead source there is.

Speaker 24 Whether or not that it's cost-efficient is one different thing, but they they have the data that that closes the most deals, so it definitely works.

Speaker 24 So, we're trying to get really, really niche with that and say, like, anybody that we get a cold call lead-in, our VA then preps a like a personalized letter from me saying, Hey, my, thanks for this is us.

Speaker 24 This is our commercial. Our office is in this area.
Would love to work with you. So, really diving deeper into into that, that branding.
Dude, I love it.

Speaker 24 Tommy Harr05

Speaker 24 is your Instagram. Yes, sir.
What do you want to leave the people? Everyone needs to go follow you. What do you want to, you know, is there anything we didn't cover here?

Speaker 24 What do you want to leave the people with on what they can do, whether they're just getting started, they're growing their business, they want to start following Tommy. They want to be the next Tommy.

Speaker 24 What would you want to mention to them? Be yourself. Don't create a business that you hate.
So social media has been a huge driver over the last two or three years. I sucked at it for two years.

Speaker 24 I figured it out after the second year, and it's been growing for the last two, maybe three. And it's helped my deal flow.
It's helped maybe raise private money.

Speaker 24 I raised millions of dollars from social media posts. So, what I mean by this is document your journey.

Speaker 24 If I could go back seven years ago and start telling people about my first house, hack, I lived in my damn living room and rented all my bedrooms out.

Speaker 24 If people knew that more and like, just document your journey and understand that this stuff doesn't happen overnight. It's a you stumble around.

Speaker 24 If you're like me and you didn't get help in the beginning, you stumble around for a year, two years, three years, and then you figure it out.

Speaker 24 Find somebody in your market or around the country that does what they say that they do, vet them out, give them your energy, and they will take you to the next level.

Speaker 24 So it's not as hard as you do it by yourself, but it's still going to be hard. Fail, fail often, fail fast, and get to the next level.
And I'll even highlight what you just said.

Speaker 24 You lived in the living room of your duplex multi-unit and rented out the bedrooms. That level of sacrifice is rare.

Speaker 24 So I want to highlight that for you because I think everyone out there needs to understand what is the thing you're willing to sacrifice. So I have my five success principles.

Speaker 24 First, you have to decide what you want and who you need to be to get it. So that first principle, the who you need to be, that's where the sacrifice comes in.

Speaker 24 Do you need to be Tommy Harr living in his own living room?

Speaker 24 sleeping in his own living room, renting out the rest of the bedrooms, not having his own bedroom so that he can financially house hack this?

Speaker 24 Is that who you need to be? Is that the sacrifice you need to make to get what you want? You have heard my story time and time again about sleeping on couches, et cetera.

Speaker 24 Like, what is the thing that you need to sacrifice to be, to get what you've decided you want? Make a decision of what you want and then decide who you need to be to get it.

Speaker 24 Tommy, you've done a brilliant job with that. I appreciate it.
You got to sacrifice, whether it's time away from your family, time away from your kids, sleeping on a couch, like you said,

Speaker 24 you got to figure that out. And you can only do it for yourself.
Nobody's going to come save you. That's right.
That's right. Guys, go follow Tommy.
Go make sure you're in and around his world.

Speaker 24 If he ever makes any offer to work with you, do it. I'll tell you now.
This guy is the real deal. If there's any way that you could get coached by him, do it.

Speaker 24 He's amazing, great human. Go follow him on Instagram.
Brother, I appreciate you sharing some wisdom here on the science of flipping. Appreciate you guys.
Appreciate your time.

Speaker 24 And go out there and crush it. If this has helped you guys, if there's one or two nuggets that you think other people need, share this with Least or your friends.
I'd greatly appreciate it.

Speaker 24 See you on the next episode. Peace.
Peace.

Speaker 24 I'll get to it.

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