S1E8: What's for Dinner? (with John Turturro)

This episode of the Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is brought to you by Confluence by Atlassian, the connected workspace where teams can create, organize, and deliver work like never before. Set knowledge free with Confluence.
Weight loss. It needs to be fast and sustainable.
Noom GLP-1 starts at just $149 and ships to your door in seven days. Take it from Clay Vossier, who lost 35 pounds on Noom.
It's a psychological thing too. They're definitely teaching how to live a better, healthier lifestyle.
Noom is teaching me the habits so I do not have to be on weight loss meds forever. Don't believe it? Take it from Lauren, who lost 22 pounds on Noom.
If I come off of the GLP one, it's not gonna automatically make my weight yo-yo back I'm going to have good skills and know what to do to take care of myself. $149 GLP-1s? Now that's Noom Smart.

Noom, the smart way to lose weight. Get started with Noom GLP-1 at Noom.com.
Real Noom users

composited to provide their story. Individual results may vary.
Not all customers will medically

qualify for prescription medications. Compounded medications are not reviewed by the FDA for safety, efficacy, or quality.
Hey, I'm Ben Stiller. I'm Adam Scott.
And this is the Severance Podcast with Ben and Adam, where we break down every episode of Severance. Today, we're recapping season one, episode eight, What's for Dinner,

written by Chris Black and directed by the one and only Ben Stiller. Ben, second to last recap, or as they say, penultimate recap of season one, how are you rating this show that you made overall on rewatch scale one to 10? I'm, I'm not good at judging my own work.
Okay. So I, I've been enjoying if I'm like, if I'm reading the process, I've been enjoying the process a lot.
Yeah. It's been fun to go back in, you know, and have the different experiences of watching the episodes with some time in between talking to everybody about them, sometimes pleasantly surprised at something.

Yeah. Always too.
But overall, I think it's been great and fun and I'm super excited too for today because of who's on our show. Yeah, me too i think also re-watching the show with the intention of discussing it and digging into it is a different experience too and that's been really fun uh yeah yeah yeah and uh and also as we roll into season two kind of looking back at season one and thinking about all the things that we thought about when we were making season two and the little details from season one that sometimes I go, oh, there are actually some things I actually look at and go, wait a minute, I forgot we did that.
Maybe I shouldn't admit that, but there are. No, I see that stuff all the time and it's really fun.
Also, just incidentally, I'd rate this episode of the podcast that we've done so far as a 12 out of 10. Wow.
Yeah. Wow.
All right. That's great.
Maybe we should stop here. Great.
No, it's going to get even bigger and better because Totoro is coming out. Oh my God, you're right.
Today, we are joined by the legendary and Emmy Award winning actor, writer, and director, John Turturro, who we know and love on Severance as Irving. John, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you for doing this. Thank you.
It's a pleasure to be here. Very excited to have you here, John.
So excited. As we were excited when you joined the cast back when we were starting the show.
As was I. Yeah, that was a big thing for us when you said you were interested and we met and talked.
And I remember we had a nice meal out in Brooklyn and talked about stuff. It's always good to read great material.
And I also, you know, sort of very grateful had been thought of me in doing something that I hadn't done before. That's always a big incentive and compliment.
And you say, wow, I'm not sure how good I will be doing this thing, but I love to do things that I haven't done before. And I was a fan of, you know, a bunch of films that's been directed right from the beginning.
Was it Reality Bites? Yeah, that was my first. That's right.
Yeah, I remember seeing that. And of course, I'm obsessed with the documentary of Tropic thunder so uh you know which i consider a documentary uh uh but so you know when we met and we talked with dan and everything i i thought the the scripts were you know excellent and you know my major concern was you know who would be the apple of my affection? And then I suggested at the dinner,

Chris, because I've worked with Chris so many times. And I know Ben knows him.
And I just really love something about Chris, the child that sort of within him with this man who has this great experience

and he's very

skilled too

and he's a

you have a lot of

we always have a lot of fun together. I mean, Chris being Chris Walken, Christopher Walken, the great Chris Walken.
Um, yes. Yeah.
Sir Walken. Yeah.
I mean, that was pretty funny the way that all developed, uh, you know, cause we did have that dinner dinner. And I remember at the dinner when we were talking, I think Dan Erickson was there.
We talked about who might be Bert. And you mentioned Chris.
And I just like secretly, I kind of just, there was like a little bit of a, I had a mini kind of explosion inside of me. And I was like, oh, this is great.
And yeah. And then you said like, I can reach out to him or I can, you know, see if he's.
And I was like, all right, well, if you're going to do that, I'll be happy to do whatever, whatever we need to do. And I know Chris a little bit because my dad worked with him back in the 80s.
And Hurley Burley. in Hurley Burley, a play that Mike Nichols directed and Chris Walken and William Hurt and Sigourney Weaver and my dad, Jerry Stiller and Harvey Keitel, just amazing cast.
And Chris and my dad became very close during that. And I think knew each other over the years beforehand too.
But he's still Christopher Walk christopher walken to me as a fan i'm just always you know you know slightly intimidated as as honestly john i didn't really know you that well before we started working together and i was i was a little bit intimidated too because i think you're a great actor and director and you know i know you're very like like you're really serious about the work. And that, to me, was exciting because I thought, okay, if you see something in this, you know, I was curious.
What was it that you saw in it when you first read it? What was it that it, you know? I thought it was so original. I thought it was so original.
And I thought the characters were all really delineated really well. and I thought, you know, obviously you'd put, you know, a lot of thought into it.
And I thought, wow, if you have the right combination of people, you know, this, this could be really interesting. And, you know, the, the, the group that you put together, you know, of Adam leading and, and Britt and Zach and Tramiel and Patricia, you know, it's a really good group and everyone works really well together.
And, you know, I've had plenty of experiences working with people who are wonderful actors. It's like a one-way street, you know, and when it's not that way, you can create this space between the characters, you know.
And so, to me, that's the most interesting thing and also getting to know people you know you don't know someone i didn't know anyone really except for chris and so you learn how to work together and you start to say oh this is what the person likes and and you know my job is sort of to bring all my homework and everything i do, but also to plug in to your brain and to Dan's brain to say,

okay, this is what they're going for, you know?

And it takes a little, you know, adjustment at times for, you know,

I always think at the beginning, everyone's nervous and it doesn't matter who,

who they are.

They're nervous and you, you make choices. And sometimes the choices are too big.
They're too small. They're not brave enough, you know? And then once you establish that, then you can go a lot of different places, you know? And then, then you develop a shorthand and, you know, I could tell a lot of times, okay, you know, you want a variation and, okay, let me spin it this way, let me spin it that way.
But so that's always a joy for me, you know, to discover, you know, the chemistry between the people that I'm working with. And to me, that's maybe even more important or as important as a script.
It was really fun over season one, particularly at the beginning with the four of us in MDR, remember us, sort of getting to know each other and getting to know how each of us works. And all of us starting to, like you said, like take some chances on whether it's too big or too small or whatever, but trying something out and knowing that we would be supported

by the other three.

Yeah.

Yeah, I watched that happen.

I mean, I think I felt it too as a director

sort of starting to feel more comfortable.

I remember the first few days

we were shooting some stuff

and I was sitting in the hallways or something

and you came in with the Irving voice

and I was like,

and I didn't know you were going to do

Thank you. I was in the hallways or something.
And you came in with the Irving voice. And I was like, and I didn't know you were going to do that voice.
And I was, and so the first time I heard it, I was like, whoa, whoa. And it was really specific and it was really committed and I liked it, but I was also you know it came out of nowhere and and i remember i was like okay and something is you know it's interesting like as a director you feel like sometimes you have to like kind of say something or you have to like check in on it and i wasn't sure honestly like the first time i heard i wasn't sure i was like wow this is like wow, this is like a really, this is a really committed choice.
Now, obviously it wasn't, not sure that you, you know, would be good doing it, but it was a choice. And I, do you remember, like I had a little conversation.
Yeah, I remember. Yeah.
Oh yeah. I remember exactly.
I remember exactly. And I, I said, let me listen to it.
And I listened to it and I said, you know what? I need to just pull that back a little bit yeah and and once i did no but you said but i don't think i gave you any direction on other than i said are you like is this like tell me yeah are you sure you said are you sure and i was like i'm not sure of anything really uh but no when i once i listened to it i just thought okay you know it's you're still in a virginal state. Yeah.
And as a director, I didn't want to like, because by the way, I once did that on a movie where I did more of a New York accent. And the director freaked out about it.
And I got really, I stood my ground. I was like, no, I'm going to do this.
And I don't know if he ever was happy that I did it. And I don't even know if it worked right i also know as an actor i don't want to get i don't want the director in my head like questioning a choice i'm making because you want to feel like okay like let me go with this thing and explore it and not be self-conscious about it and i i swear swear to you by the end of the week like i couldn't imagine the character sounding any other way yeah it was just you know what i mean by the end of the week the first week of shooting it was just like okay this is irving and it's like of course this is irving right you know right right it's but that's you know we're all getting to know each other and someone's trying something and sometimes you know it i mean there are times where people do things you just go well that's out of the ballpark That's not In the vicinity You know I've been there You know And you're like Whoa

I don't think this is going to, you know. But sometimes it's just the little adjustments.
And also there's so many questions about these characters that we don't know in terms of who their Audi is, you know, what their outside life is, where they come from that we don't know as an audience intentionally. And then there's the, you know, the interaction, like you're saying between the actors, which I think is such a, an important thing, what you're talking about, that chemistry, because that's really what makes something that works.
I think, you know, that when that just happens and you guys develop that. Right.
I remember also, there's a moment in episode three

when you pull develop that. Right.
I remember also, there's a moment in episode three when you pull Mark aside and you say, uh, we should take her to the perpetuity wing. Right.
Right. And that was for me.
And I'm Adam. I know I remember talking to you because it was sort of very early on.
There was such an intensity of belief, an understanding of why it was important to take her to the perpetuity wing that told me so much about Irving in terms of his commitment to the ideology or the, right, the, the, the, the keyer lumen, you know, the rules and the, the mythology that you'd been taught and abided by and lived by. To me, that moment is like, oh, this is why the show can work.
Because John Turturro as Irving is saying, you have to take her to perpetuity wing and I believe him. That there's such a depth there that I don't even know if it was even there in the writing of that scene.
Well, there was an opening to go down deep, you know, to go to descend in your elevator, you know, which is sort of a metaphor for acting. And sometimes when I've worked with different directors who are even great directors, I always think sometimes, well, what are they good at and what is my job? What can I do to surprise them a little bit, to give them a gift back? And because I think that's kind of your job is to give them something that maybe they haven't thought of because they have to think of so many things.
And it would make know mark's character have to deal with this guy you know who has this kind of you know belief i personally i'm very afraid of cults i really am afraid of them you know there are certain buildings i cross the street i go like i don't want to be even in front of the building you know so it it was fun to kind of delve in. What was that like, Adam, for you when you were doing that scene? It was the first like real one-on-one time scene that I had with John.
So I was nervous about it, but that kind of fervent stance he was taking there with the perpetuity wing, like you're saying, it was just crystal clear. This was everything to Irving.
This was everything. And it really helped me because I was still, you know, defining all the corners of Mark and Mark had to be a believer in the place in order to, you know, become disillusioned with it.
But he had to be in between someone like Irving and then someone like Dylan or Helly or something like that. So it really helped me kind of find the gradations of where Mark falls in in the kind of loom and lore of it all.
But, yeah, I mean, it was just I remember that as a big moment as well. It's really fun and it's really fun to watch.
And also you say, you know, a gift that you give the director, which that's exactly what it is.

But it's also obviously a gift for the audience, too, because everybody's getting to watch it. But there are these moments there that I think for me, you know, having spent a lot of time and editing it.
And so you look at the material and you look at the takes and all of that. as you know as a director you know when you find that okay that take or that that moment that you

want to choose that just stick with me, like that moment in that scene. And I can think of two or three or four other ones across the series that for me are sort of like those moments whenever I see them, I'm so grateful that they're there because they just, I don't know, what is that thing when you see somebody have a moment that's real, that just pulls you into something in a way that there's no separation between what you're watching and what it is because it feels real, even though it's a TV show that's, you know, crazy thing.
Well, I think, you know, there are, the whole idea is to give it away, you know, obviously to the audience, but I always think of like, you're going to be in that room looking at all this footage. So, you know, you want to give someone choices and as much complexity, you know, as is required.
Yeah, that's great. And maybe just before we start talking about the episode, your relationship with Chris Walken, you guys have known each other for a long time and you've directed him a few times, right? I had worked with him as an actor once before in Search and Destroy.
And we definitely got along and I've directed him three different times. I directed him once as a theater critic, like an Oscar Wilde critic in Illuminata.
And he's a very interesting guy cause he's, he's confident, but he's very humble. He's a very humble person.
And, you know, you get easy to get something going between the both of you, you know? And, uh, and I've seen him on stage when I was a student at, you know, Yelp drama school. And I've seen him do a lot of plays.
He's a really tremendously talented guy. I know everyone, you know, imitates him and stuff like that, but he's so sensitive, you know, you can just touch his hand and it's like electric.
So it's so easy to be in love with. Yeah.
Yeah. And watching you guys work on those scenes across the season was always such a treat to kind of watch how you guys interacted and just sort of played with each other and allowing just the energy to kind of develop.
Yeah. Those scenes are just so special.
Yeah. John, I just want to go back to the beginning of the conversation just one thing i wanted to ask you when you said that it was the show was something that you had never done before do you mean like the genre or the the the character what what were you referring to both both both the genre and the character and i thought oh this is something I could sort of, you know, morph into, you know? I mean, I love kind of, you know, the whole chameleon, you know, approach to something, you know, uh, I, I, I love when someone asks me to do something that they haven't seen me do.
And I feel like whenever that's, I get that opportunity, it's always an exciting one.

Maybe we should take a break and then come right back and then we can recap episode eight.

At Lumen, things are not always what they seem. Mark, Dylan, Helly, and Irving in MDR make a great team, but what else lies beyond the four white walls of their department? There seem to be more questions than answers as the secrets of Lumen are slowly revealed.
There's definitely a lot more going on than you see. It's a little bit creepy.
I agree. There are more Q's than A's in this place.
Yeah, for sure. But luckily, your workplace doesn't have to be so dysfunctional thanks to Confluence by Atlassian.
I feel like something like Confluence could really help those severed workers, you know? They're kind of always organizing and trying to come up with group ideas and things that need organization and back and forth and a lot of creative interaction in the workspace. Confluence is the connected workspace where teams can collaborate and create like never before, where teams have easy access to the relevant pages and resources their projects call for while discovering important contexts they didn't even know they needed.
A space where AI streamlines the things that normally eat up their time, letting teams generate, organize, and deliver work faster. In fact, with Confluence, teams can see a 5.2% average boost in productivity in one year.
I think any boost in productivity,

especially with a group like the severed group, imagine how many more files they could complete if they had Confluence. Set knowledge free with Confluence.
Learn more at Atlassian.com

slash Confluence. That's A-T-L-A-S-S-I-A-N dot com slash C-O-N-F-L-U-E-N-C-E.
Okay, episode eight opens in Irving's home. So we're with his Audi.
He's drinking black coffee and cranking Motorhead's Ace of Spades and then just going to town on a painting. So this is sort of the Irving is super cool reveal in a sense.
It is so satisfying to learn that this character we've been rooting for all season is super cool and interesting in the outside world. First of all, Ben, this Motorhead song, Ace of Spades, how did that fit in? Or John, did you have something to do with it? No, I credit my director.
You know, we knew we wanted to have a fun song. And, you know, like I was, I think I've said before, I have this sort of sort of like severance playlist you know that over the course of the years making the show that we create and we're thinking of different fun you know high energy songs and and that one just somehow felt right and i think on a lot of levels it kind of it's interesting too you know when we start to learn more about irving's backstory but um john, I remember when we talked about the scene, you were really specific about this process of Irving painting that you knew, you had a sense of it in terms of, I just remember you had a really clear idea of how you wanted to do it.
Well, yeah, I mean, I was practicing a lot, you know, in my dressing room during the other episodes. But I have a lot of painters in my family and things.
And I was thinking, well, here's this guy who's really regimented. And a lot of the times these people, they have a whole other life, you know.
And I had done a lot of background stuff. But when you played that song, I thought, wow, this is great.
Because had the song and then i i had been practicing the painting and how we would paint it and you were telling me you know use your hands more do that as i've gotten you know more more experience sometimes you have these sequences where you don't talk but you have something to do and you kept saying you know you know paint, paint faster there and use your hands more with it and more like an action painter, you know? And one of my uncles was an abstract painter. And he's also searching for something, you know, as he's doing, he's trying to figure something out at the same time.
And I remember it was a really, I felt like a really great collaboration with you. Yeah, yeah.
In that that and it was without words but you know you gave me you know and i was like okay we're like rock and rolling now so yeah i felt that too it was so much fun and then honestly the last part of it was jeff richmond our editor just when we put it together he was so into it too you know and it just has such an energy to it. And yeah, says so much about Irving on the outside that without words, you know, that we all of a sudden we have a whole new character that we're meeting.
And we see as you're squeezing out the black paint, that sort of black goo that really looks a lot like all those, the dreams we saw earlier. I got the info from Doug Coleman, who is our special effects person.
Doug, by the way, I've worked with on movies over the years in New York as one of the prominent special effects people. He's also the guy who makes all our snow for real and all the other crazy, actual, practical effects in the show.
And he said, it's from Blair adhesives, this company that is the same company that makes the slime for Nickelodeon. It's not the same material, not the same composite, but they obviously know how to make gooey, drippy stuff really well.
By the way, um, you were, I was talking earlier about some of those scenes where I had these memorable moments the uh wellness scene this is way back i guess oh yeah yeah yeah yes with miss case yeah miss casey well she was brilliant in the scene and and you know you think about what leaks in from his audi you know obviously he has a vocabulary and stuff but you're still in this kind of altered childish state or childlike state.

But I just thought she was- You know, obviously he has a vocabulary and stuff, but you're still in this kind of altered childish state or childlike state.

But I just thought she was so good.

Yeah.

And the way you did it, I mean, it's, a lot of these things are so challenging and a lot of it has to do with how you listen.

And, you know, the point of view that you've developed to help your listening.

Yeah.

You know, from that.

And he is starved. He's so, he's so happy when he hears certain, like, yeah.
I mean, so much of this is really, you know, the only thing I think when I read it too, and, you know, working on the show, there was this Kubrickian approach to it, you know, even Adam's character and, and how you been, you know, went about it. And, about it and you know i i i never worked with kubrick i almost worked with kubrick uh but i i didn't say the right thing uh to stanley which uh movie well i can talk about it it's over now so uh he he wanted me to be an eyes wide shut there was a character that Todd Field played eventually that was supposed to be in the beginning, the middle, and the end, but they cut the end.
And they said he was going to talk to me, and he did call me up, and I had a two-hour conversation with him. Wow.
And I kept thinking, well, this is a joke. You know, it can't be Stanley Kubrick.
And he was like, you know, I know every film you've ever made, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, well, I know all the films you made.
And he said, you know, I wrote the part for you. And I think you're a really wonderful actor.
And I was embarrassed. And I said, well, thank you.
And he said, well, you are. And I said, well, I can't walk around my house telling my wife that I'm a wonderful actor.
You know, because she'll hit me with a frying pan. And then at the end, he said, you know, how can I get you the script? It was in the 90s.
And I said, well, you could FedEx it to me. And he said, well, what if you're not home? And I said, well, my FedEx man throws it over my gate.
I said, I know him. His name is Ray.
And he said, that's unbelievable. Mine doesn't do that.
I said, well, do you talk to your FedEx man? He said, no, I don't know his name. So he said, okay, let's say you, I shouldn't go off.
Let's say you get it, you read it, you like it. Then what do we do? I said, well, then we'll, you know, we'll work it out.
He said, but I heard next year you may do a film. This was a year away.
He said, you want to direct something? I said, well, I directed one film. I'm not a director.
I said, he said, yes, but what would we do? And I said, well,'d work it out obviously you know whatever i didn't say you know forget it you're first that's what he wanted me to say and after talking to him for two hours the next day they called me up and they said stanley said you're not available what because i wasn't available for two years and you really by the way you really have had to have been available for two years. Yeah.
I would have been replaced, probably. A lot of people were replaced.
But I wanted to see what that experience of the 100 take thing was. Yeah, that's incredible.
But so when I was on this show, I kept thinking about, that kept coming into my brain. I never really told you.
I was thinking like, you know what? This is better anyway. I'm better off being here.
The one decision I ever made that could compare with Stanley Kubrick favorably is that I hired you for this. Well, no, I'm telling you.
It kept going through my brain because certain films. Yeah, I think he's in all our brains, you know, in terms of just his influence on film.

And I can't imagine what that's like to have Stanley Kubrick say to you, I wrote a part for you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then he asked me about all the actors.

What do you think of this person?

What do you think of that person?

Of course, I'm going to say, you know, they're good.

All the actors he was thinking of hiring or that he had all for Eyes Wide Shut.

Yeah, he had hired.

Yeah. He wanted to know about what I thought about Tom and everything.
I was like, he's terrific. I said, you know.
That's amazing. That's amazing.
That's an amazing story. Yeah.
So at least I had that experience. So I forget I share that.
That is incredible. Well, I want to ask John just what is it that you knew about your Audi kind of walking in, the conversations you and Ben and Dan had about it? Dan gave me a whole backstory, and I did a lot of research on that backstory to see what would be the remnants of that for his in it.
Right. And so I was looking forward to that.
But then once we decided that he had a leather jacket and then Ben really liked the leather jacket and then he paints and, well, I figured he likes painting and he likes classical music and all that stuff. But when Ben put that song on, I was like, oh man, this is great.
This is like the secret. Yeah.
This is the secret Irving, you know, who goes to the underground clubs and stuff. Who knows, right? Yeah.
Who knows? Who knows? I mean, all of us have surprises. And that's, you know, that's the funny thing about this show too, is like a lot of it is like, you know, we don't say what the backstory is obviously you know for the audience and but there's also the influence of a wardrobe choice of you know right like all of a sudden it's like wait i was thinking this or you know here's and the feeling of what that is that even though it's all thought out ahead of time and incredibly specific that i feel like these choices in the moment are can really affect everything too and you have to be open to that too that's right absolutely and that he has a dog that's really interesting to me too yeah radar radar yes your howdy likes your howdy likes the sound of radar we hear that episode yeah yeah i mean it's kind of the man with his dog that dog by the way is named ditto the actor and ditto yes is also known for being in succession that's right yeah we've had to work around his availability for the star um okay let's get into what the other folks at mdr are up to uh back in lumen heli is scrambling meet quota.
John, did you have any personal theories while we were shooting or otherwise about what the numbers are, what they mean, what they're for? I would usually defer to Zach and we'd have these discussions. But Zach, of course, Zach had all the theories.
All of numbers, or was enamored of those. Yes.
You know, I had various theories, you know, but obviously, like in anything, when you're like in a factory, if you're counting, you know, and you're trying to get to a certain number, you know, you may not know what that number actually means. Sure.
You know, so, but I did have,

but I would change it because I would talk to Zach.

But I thought that was something important.

Sure.

You know, at least in the state that we were in,

that they needed this information,

that we were breaking it down,

a certain kind of statistic that they needed. Yeah, you would think it's important.
I had various scenarios. Yeah, and then when Helly hits 100%, there's the animated video of Kear Egan comes up, which is sort of like this really kind of rudimentary video screen animation.
Like from Apple II era animation. Yes was Jeff Mann who came on as a consultant who designed that.
I worked with as a production designer over the years, incredibly... Love Jeff.
Yeah, very, very talented guy. Because it's actually interesting to me.
I love, again, Irving's complete investment when he's watching the congratulatory silly little video as if it's as if you're like meeting the pope or something i mean it's so important that's this fascinating thing about this moment is that even though we're all kind of banding together to rebel against this place when this video plays both Mark and especially Irving get really excited

and how all kind of banding together to rebel against this place when this video plays uh both mark and especially irving get really excited and have all this reverence for this guy in this video and uh yeah do you want to play that little moment i knew you could do it heli r even in your darkest moments i see you arriving here. In refining your macro data file, you have brought glory to this company and to me, Keir Egan.
I... I love you.
But now I must away, for there are others who need me around the world. Goodbye, L-E-R, and thank you.
So Ben, that voice, it sounds familiar. Yes.
Some guy. Yeah.
Well, it's not the real Keir Egan, because we hear the real Keir Egan recording in episode three in Petey's head and in the Perpetuity Wing. But this is some actor that they hired to do the voice for the congratulatory animated video.
Obviously an out-of-work actor who needed the gig. Really needed the work.
Probably got a couple callbacks for Severance but couldn't get in um sure uh yeah stuff really gets me man i don't know what it is i just listen to it i'm like yeah wow this gets me but i also i also love at this point like where irving's arc really is in my mind, when I look at it, like a guy who's a true believer. Yeah.
Who becomes disillusioned or whatever it is that allows you to make that choice to, um, to be a part of this sort of, uh, insurrection, if you will. Yeah.
But you're right. It's a much tougher armor to pierce with Irving.
Yeah. I think it's, you know, because, you know,

what happens personally to him just sends him, you know.

Yeah.

This is what happens to people sometimes

who believe so much in something,

and then they get really disappointed, you know,

and really let down.

And that was a challenging thing to do,

and I enjoyed doing it, but it was challenging.

Yeah.

All right, let's take a quick break,

and we'll see into the waffle party when we come back. At Great Wolf Lodge, take your whole family on an unforgettable adventure.
It's a world of fun, all under one roof. There are Great Wolf Lodges all across North America.
Most families are within only a few hours' drive to a lodge. You and your pack can splash away in the indoor water park, and no two lodges are the same.
Depending on which you visit, you'll get wave pools, lazy rivers, water basketball, and tons of all-ages fun that your family can enjoy together. But every single one has amazing water slides, from high-speed thrill rides to small, toddler-friendly slopes.
And every water park is always a warm 84 degrees. But check it out! The lodge also has incredible attractions.
High-flying ropes courses, miniature golf, climbing walls, mini bowling, virtual reality rooms, and a massive arcade are just some of the adventures waiting for your family. Not only that, but they've got free daily events and activities, from family-friendly yoga in the mornings all the way through to nightly family dance parties.
You don't want to miss that. By the way, I would bring my dancing pajamas if I were you.
Honestly, there's so much to see and do. You can't get it all done in a day.

So when you book your visit, check out the themed suites.

Those rooms have got special bunk bed sleeping areas just for kids.

So you can relax and unmind after a long day of splashing and playing.

Best of all, it's just a short drive away.

So bring your pack together and wolf out.

Learn more at greatwolf.com.

Book now and strengthen your pack at Great Wolf Lodge. This is a message from sponsor Intuit TurboTax.
Taxes was getting frustrated by your forms. Now Taxes is uploading your forms with a snap and a TurboTax expert will do your taxes for you.
One who's backed by the latest tech, which cross-checks millions of data points for absolute accuracy, all of which makes it easy for you to get the most money back guaranteed. Get an expert now at TurboTax.com.
Only available with TurboTax live full service. See guaranteed details at TurboTax.com slash guarantees.
Every cup of Nespresso coffee is an invitation to transform your morning routine into a ritual you can treasure each and every day. Using the Virtuo Pop, a simple touch of the button, freshly brews bold aromas, and a rich velvety crema layer for delicious cafe-quality coffee at home.
Whether you enjoy your coffee hot or over ice, every sip, every morning is unforgettable. Nothing tastes like Nespresso coffee.
Visit nespresso.com or our app to explore our full range of easy-to-use machines and coffees not found anywhere else. Okay, so it turns out when you meet quota, one person from MDR gets awarded a waffle party.
Cobell asks Mark who should get it, and Mark suggests Dylan. I just have to say, Adam, the moment that starts that scene with you and Patricia, the laughing, you're laughing about something that was said right before the scene starts.
And I remember we did it a few times, but you, there was one where we said, let's just try one where you're like, laugh, like for way too long. And just keep the uncomfortable laughing going with each other.
And we used every second of it in the cut. Um, I love that.
It's just so uncomfortable and weird and sort of, you know, forced kind of camaraderie or whatever it is. And you have your agenda, you know what you're doing.
She's always kind of like sussing you out too. And the two of you are just sort of, you know, in your own worlds, but then, yeah, it's great.
Yeah. Watching it back, I had forgotten just how much laughing there was.
It's kept in there. I remember we literally used at every single second of it.
Um, and it's great. And then she says, yeah, she kind of, you, you kind of tell her you want, you know, Dylan to take the waffle party because that's part of the plan.
Yeah. And, you know, she's like, you can choose yourself if you want, because it's such a, we're starting at the idea that the waffle party is a coveted event and why would you choose someone else to do this? And so Mark's covering and just trying to convince her that, you know, Dylan deserves it because he's been working so hard.
And also that's also one of the phrases, a waffle party, you know, that Dan created along with Innie and Audi and all those things that feels, they're so specific to the show. And I remember when the show finally went out into the world after working on it for a couple of years, hearing people talking about a waffle party as some sort of like, what is a waffle party? And we've been talking about a waffle party earlier in the show.
But then I remember thinking like, okay, what is the waffle party? And Dan and I had conversations about like, how far do you go with a waffle party? And what, what should that be? Um, what it's the ultimate perk, right? Or yeah. Oh, it's kind of what everything is leading to.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's, it's, and he wants his waffle party, you know? I mean, everybody wants their waffle party. So when we, when we got to that point of having to sort of visualize it and figure out what it was going to be, you know, I, I knew that it had to involve an actual waffle.
of course there would be waffle and and then there would be some other element of other you know perks that were you know it's obviously there's like some you know these dancers come in and that

that whole, I mean, just us figuring out how to choreograph that, how kind of seductive it would be, how risque, what was it insinuating. that was a kind of an inflection point I remember because it's almost like one of the first questions we had to answer

that we'd put out there in terms of like you know you could just be thinking forever what is a waffle party but we had to somehow show it and i remember being a little bit concerned that like people would again would buy it would feel like that's okay you know is that too weird is it too is it inappropriate i don't know the whole like that's, okay, you know, is that too weird? Is it too, is it inappropriate? I don't know. The whole thing is just so, you know.
Well, it does have a real sexual charge to it. It has a very risque kind of overall tone to it.
And it's, I always thought of it as, you know, you toil away for this whole time and then you kind of, you meet quota, so you get this reward. And since the entire place and the entire culture of lumen is devoid of any affection or, you know, anything that is even anywhere near sex or anything, but these are feelings that all of them probably have and don't understand.
This is the ultimate reward that they can engage and just sort of let themselves be a part of this. Is that in the realm of what you guys were thinking? I thought so.
I thought that would be part of it. These, you know, human instincts that are that they're sort of of deprived of.
I mean, that's a big part of the Bert and Irving relationship, I think too, is the sort of, you know, there's two moments between you when, you know, the first time when, when you go to O and D and Bert, you know, sort of touches your hand and Irving sort of gets a little bit freaked out by it and leaves.

And then the second time when you're back at O&D and you move to touch his hand. And then in the moment in six that Aoife directed so well between the two of you when you, you know, in the plant room, that energy.
I think if you're starved, you know, connection, these things, rituals take on a stronger resonance, you know, and obviously other people do, you know, too, you know, and that's what happens when you deny someone, you know, whatever state they're in. Like in a prison story, too, same thing.
Yeah. It's also interesting that there's a sexual charge to the dance, but the dance also has a dangerous feeling to it.
So it's almost like, you know, be careful. Here you go, but you need to move with caution as well.
Yeah. So these dancers, we tried to figure out how to visualize this thing.
And we worked with a great choreographer named Tara Rodriguez, who really came up with this very unique dance that sort of embodied all the weirdness that we were looking for. And the masks, do you want to talk about the masks that they're wearing, Ben? I guess we could.
Or should we not? They're so weird. I know.
I hadn't watched 8 for a while when I watched it for this. And for a second, I had forgotten that Dylan had the Keir Egan mask waiting for him on the bed, which just not having watched it for a couple of years, we really went for it in terms of just the weirdness of this whole whatever this ritual was going to be that he ends up walking out on.
but the masks were made by this artist that we work with on the show named

Planko Patakanov who is

just incredibly talented and I

remember we were shooting, John, I'm sure you remember this location. We shot the Keir Egan replica house in a real old Victorian house in Yonkers, New York, that is part of the Hudson River Museum.
And we shot there. We shot everything we were going to shoot there for the whole series.
So, you know, the first, I guess, episode three, all those scenes we shot there in the same couple of days that we shot for episode eight. And we didn't get to, and I think you probably had gone home by that point, John, but it was the last night we were there.
And I think it was like one or two o'clock in the morning that we finally got to shooting the waffle party dance. And the dancers had been waiting all day and we were at the very end of our schedule and we had to get it done.
I remember we only had a few takes to get it done. And those dancers came in and they nailed it.
They were so good and they were so prepared. And it was really that energy that energy of like okay we got to get this and you know they're gonna they're gonna kick us out of here in half an hour and it was really really exciting and fun yeah i was wrapped and i came i stayed to watch the waffle party and it was incredible they were so on point it was really impressive yeah i think they were going to kick us out of there because the gilded age was shooting there the next day or something is that right yeah yeah i saw a rehearsal of it yeah i remember thinking yeah wow um anyway that was that was a really fun weird scene and watching it having not watched it for a while i was like oh yeah this is weird and a little bit out there.
Should we talk about the egg party?

Yes.

I mean,

this is,

this is basically the celebration for reaching a hundred percent and Dylan is going to go get his waffle party,

but they have a pre waffle party egg mixer,

social type thing.

And yes,

yeah.

What always makes me laugh about this every time I watch it is that the party consists of the same four people who've just been working together. It's just, they change the lights, they put on some, you know, some kind of tiki music.
Uh, and it's just the four of you having to hang out with each other. And yet it is kind of like a party because you like split off into groups but now with eggs and i i am not an egg person do you like eggs uh john i do but i don't like to you know hold them in my hand but they came in but i like to like make different you know omelets and things like that cat miller our props master she came in with a food stylist and created these crazy different egg concoctions it's like giant devil egg within an egg yeah scotch eggs yeah oh my god i like deviled eggs ah well that worked for you for the scene because i i was staying as far away as possible during shooting yeah you you really don't like eggs i have no problem and christine will make fun of me i have no problem with eggs in something i eat it's just the actual i don't want to eat an egg on its own okay like you can put in a cake batter or whatever i'm not you know i'm not vegan um i i just don't like the actual egg situation but that party is like everybody starts kind of going off into groups which is basically heli and dylan are talking and then irving kind of goes over to the keir egan portrait and you have this kind of uh how would you describe it it's sort of a private moment where you uh it's like a reverse prayer you know it's it's almost like what you normally go to like to pray or something, you know? And then I guess I put the egg inside of my, the manual, the book where all the laws are, the Bible of Lumen and then crush it.
I remember I was holding that egg for a long time, you know, uh, it's part of his sort of rebellion. Yeah.
And that's a turning point for Irving. And I mean, I guess we had the turning point earlier in seven where Irving says, let's burn this place to the ground.
But this is sort of, you know, the next nail in the coffin where almost directly to Keir Egan's face, you sort of defy him. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, Keir Egan, I mean, the actor you cast is, that's genius.
He's great. I mean, I'm in the show and I saw it and I was like, oh my God, no wonder I was a believer.
You know what I mean? He's amazing. His name is Mark Geller.
Yeah, Mark Geller. And he's so much a part of the show and so committed to the show.
And he's just great. But yeah, the waffle party, pre-waffle party egg social is also where Mark and Helly kind of connect with each other and have sort of a final check-in before the plan goes into action.
Yeah, it's kind of the first time we let each other know that we have feelings for each other. And this is sort of where everybody sort of does the gut check and says, all right, let's go and sort of all systems go and are we all still up for this? Let's take a listen to that.
Now, look, it's likely we'll all wake up around. People could be driving or skiing, whatever we do up there.
So be ready for anything as you go up the elevator, okay? The important thing is you find someone it seems you can trust, and you tell them everything. And we don't know how long Dylan will be able to give us, so we can't get distracted digging into our lives.
Right. The mission is the priority.

I probably should have told you guys.

But I kept this.

And there was a part of it that...

Well...

Our job is to taste free air.

Your so-called boss may own the clock that taunts you from the wall, but my friends... But my friends, the hour is yours.
Page 197 slaps. It's so much fun watching Irving now on the other side of this big betrayal have such a shift in tone from those 107 scenes in the closet when he was so just sort of appalled by these,

you know,

burgeoning plans and feelings that everyone was having about Lumen.

So what happens next,

Ben?

So basically everybody goes,

you go to the elevator,

you,

you say what could be your goodbye to the group,

which is let's find out what's for dinner,

which,

which is sort of,

I always thought that was kind of Irving's catchphrase, right? Yeah. What's for dinner? What's for dinner? And that was, that scene in the first episode was really one of the, my favorite scenes when I read that, that was made me want to do the show too, was that whole interchange about breaking down what that meant when Irving says, Hey kids, what's for dinner? Cause it means you're the worst dad in the world.
If you're asking your kids, what's for dinner? Anyway, it was so funny. So you all kind of go up and then, you know, Dylan is, uh, left in the control room and security room and has to figure out how to, uh, basically, you know, turn these two knobs that are going to activate the overtime contingency.
And it's very, very tense, and we build up to it, and then the episode ends right when he hits the switch, and we don't know what's going to happen. Yeah, it's the cliffhanger before the cliffhanger.
At one point, Ben, I think I remember you mentioning, like, is this cliffhanger going to be too suspenseful for us to then follow it with one? The next one needs to be. I remember when we edited the episode, I was like, oh, this is a cliffhanger.
I hope the next cliffhanger tops that cliffhanger because this is like a real cliffhanger. And then of course, nobody ever really talked about the episode eight cliffhanger because they felt the episode nine cliffhanger was the real cliffhanger.
Yeah, but it's embedded in it. Yes, for sure.
For sure. And it's also like, I feel like that sort of like basic idea when you do a television show too is like you want people to want to watch the next episode.
You want to keep the story engaging. Hey, John, I just wanted to ask you, you know, Irving and Dylan have such a fun rapport and relationship.
I just want to ask you about working with Zach real quick. I have to say Zach is a big surprise.
I said this to Ben too. And I know we're not supposed to talk about season two, whatever, but to see Zach sort of blossom, you know, at first I thought, well, he's just really funny guy.
And then he has all this other dimension to him as an actor and Dylan as a character. And one of my favorite things is, you know, when he explodes and he bites Milchick.
I don't know why, but it makes me laugh so much because it's a rebellion, you know? But I really think Zack is like a special guy. It's hard not to kind of, you know, really, really want to put your arms around him, you know? And I think his character is really interesting, you know, where he's going and that Ben gave him this opportunity.
I mean, I think there are directors who do that. They see people and they put them there.
You know, and the same thing, you know, with Brit. and I think there are directors who do that.
They see people and they, and they put them there. They, you know, and the same thing, you know, with Brit.
And I think Ben has a great eye for that. And I have to say, I was really, you know, impressed in, he surprised me in a lot of different ways.
Pleasantly, you know, and I think he's going to, you know, he's terrific part of the show. First of all, I think as actors, we all have that thing where there's a director who, you know, is willing to give you a shot in some way, but I wasn't giving Zach a shot because he's like incredibly, you know, accomplished actor, comedic actor, but he, you know, we've talked about it.
He didn't really have material like this that he'd worked on before. But the fun thing for me was knowing who Zach is and knowing who you are.
Like, I just say, okay, Zach Cherry is going to be sitting next to John Turturro. What's going to happen here? Cause he's, you know, and I think over the course of the eight or nine months of shooting, a lot of great stuff happened there that I never in a million years would have imagined.
I love the relationship between you two.

It's just, it's a pleasure, really.

And that brings us to the end of episode eight of the Severance podcast with Ben and Adam.

What's for dinner?

John, thanks, man.

This was.

Oh, thank you.

Thanks.

That was, that was.

So much fun talking to you about this stuff.

And next one, we'll talk about the Knicks and we'll see where we are at that point.

Okay.

The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey,

Pineapple Street Studios, Red Hour Productions, and Great Scott Productions.

If you like the show, be sure to rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, the Odyssey app, or your other podcast platform of choice. Our executive producers are Barry Finkel, Henry Malofsky, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and Leah Reese Dennis.
The show is produced by Zandra Ellen and Naomi Scott. This episode was mixed and mastered by Chris Basil.
We have additional engineering from Javi Krusas and Davey Sumner.

Show clips are courtesy of Fifth Season. Music by Theodore Shapiro.
Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael LaVey, Melissa Wester, Matt Casey, Kate Rose, Kurt Courtney, and Hilary Shuff. And the team at Red Hour, John Lesher, Carolina Pesikov, Jean Pablo Antonetti, Martin Valderudin, Ashwin Ramesh, Maria Noto, John Baker, and Oliver Ager.
And at Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin, and Christy Smith at Rise Management. We also had additional production help from Gabrielle Lewis, Ben Goldberg, Stephen Key, Kristen Torres, Emmanuel Hapsis, Maria Alexa Cavanaugh, and Melissa Slaughter.
I'm Adam Scott. I'm Ben Stiller.
And we will see you next time. Hey, Adam.
Yeah. Is your experience at work a bit dysfunctional lately? I don't know.
I think it's... It's...
Okay, I'll take that as a yes. Your team could undergo a highly controversial surgical procedure that would mercifully sever any and all memories of that work experience from your home lives.
Or you could try Confluence by Atlassian. Oh my God.
Well, if it's a choice between those two things, I think I would 100% choose Confluence by Atlassian. Confluence is the connected workspace where teams can collaborate and create like never before.
Where teams have easy access to the relevant pages and resources their projects call for, while discovering important contexts they didn't even know they needed. A space where AI streamlines the things that normally eat up their time, letting teams generate, organize, and deliver work faster.
In fact, with Confluence, teams can see a 5.2% average boost in productivity in one year. So that would equal out, like if we're playing with like, let's just say 100%, 5.2% of those percentage points, that's the improvement.
I mean, I'm not great at math, but that sounds very close. Well, I'm doing.
Yeah. That's the improvement.

I mean, I'm not great at math, but that sounds very close.

Well, I'm doing the math in my head right now as we speak, and I think that's great. So why not keep your team unsevered in Confluence, the connected workspace where teams can do it all?

Set knowledge free with Confluence.

Learn more at Atlassian.com slash Confluence.

That's A-T-L-A-S-S-I-A-N dot com slash C-O-N-F-L-U-E-N-C-E.