#165 Chris Bledsoe - The Episode We Never Censored

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Speaker 3 Chris Bloodso, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 Thank you for having me, Sean.

Speaker 3 I can't wait to dive into what we're about to talk about. But

Speaker 3 so,

Speaker 3 got to give Sean Webb credit again.

Speaker 3 He has introduced me to some of the most fascinating people that I've ever met and just a great human being. I love Sean.

Speaker 3 And also,

Speaker 3 I was with Brandon Fugal about a month ago and went and toured.

Speaker 3 He gave me a private tour of Skimwalker Ranch and I told him that me and you were potentially doing an interview and he got really excited about that and told me a little bit about what you guys were doing out there.

Speaker 3 So I'd love to touch on that. But all in all, Chris, I'm just ecstatic that you made the trip and was able to meet your son, Ryan, and

Speaker 3 been really excited to do this.

Speaker 2 It's the same here, my friend. We've been so excited that

Speaker 2 I'm just,

Speaker 2 I'm honored.

Speaker 3 Thank you. Thank you.
All right. Well, everybody starts with a introduction.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 3 Chris Bludsoe, you had a life-changing UFO experience in 2007 after the financial crisis that saved your life and cured you of your chronic illness. What was that chronic illness?

Speaker 2 Crohn's disease.

Speaker 3 Crohn's disease. Crohn's.

Speaker 3 Since then, you've dedicated your life to sharing your story and how it impacts your faith, which I can't wait to dive into that.

Speaker 3 You are the author of the New York Times bestseller, UFO of God, the extraordinary true story of Chris Bludsoe.

Speaker 3 And since then,

Speaker 3 your UFO experience, you've talked to CIA, NASA, the History Channel. They've all been studying you and your experience.
And from what I understand,

Speaker 3 trying to figure out what's going on with your consciousness. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 3 have a lot of questions.

Speaker 3 And then

Speaker 3 we have a Patreon account. They've been with us since the very beginning.

Speaker 3 They're our top supporters. And

Speaker 3 without them, I wouldn't be sitting here and neither would you. And so one of the things that I do is I offer them an opportunity to ask each

Speaker 3 guest a question.

Speaker 3 And so there's some really good ones on here.

Speaker 3 This one is from Kathy.

Speaker 3 How do you view death now since your experience? Is it a soul departure or a rebirth or finality as your true being dies?

Speaker 2 It's completely

Speaker 2 to me the um the real world is the unseen world where there's no time

Speaker 2 i think we're in some sort of matrix here where we experience time from the

Speaker 2 the physical body right once you're born it starts decaying right after it grows and it's a cycle

Speaker 2 but the eternal world is alive and around us and I've have

Speaker 2 I have been able to to experience that and and have shared it with a lot of others this this hidden world around us there I think our loved ones are on the other side cheering for us to get through to the other side I'm stronger in my faith than I ever have been but

Speaker 3 here's a question that just came to mind on the subject talking about

Speaker 3 where we go after we die and what you think happens after we die. Where do you think we are before we're born?

Speaker 2 I don't know, but the Bible says, and I knew you before you were born. So if you're eternal,

Speaker 2 we were part of God.

Speaker 2 In other words, we're consciousness, the word consciousness leads back to one.

Speaker 2 So you got all these people talking about consciousness now. Well, that just means God, right?

Speaker 2 So I think we're all a part of God and he breathed the life into every one of us, and we return back to that unless we fail

Speaker 2 those consequences.

Speaker 3 So when you say consciousness is God, what

Speaker 3 exactly does that mean? Because all of our consciousness is different.

Speaker 3 We don't see eye to eye on things. We have different perceptions.

Speaker 3 We view the world through different lenses. And so is this a...

Speaker 3 Do you think consciousness consciousness is one big collective?

Speaker 2 I think it's like a wireless internet, basically.

Speaker 2 All the information to every living thing is

Speaker 2 around us. In fact,

Speaker 2 I read studies from NASA, and I have a couple that

Speaker 2 are pretty interesting where it talks about the green light that shines from the sun. the way it angles on Earth.
The light is in the green spectrum, which is the color spectrum, the center.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 in that green light is,

Speaker 2 it affects this chemical called ADT, which is in all living things, hemoglobin in a human to plant life, chlorophyll. And when that light hits that chemical, it creates the energy which starts life.

Speaker 2 So something is telling every cell in your body what to do. You're not.

Speaker 2 And the grass and the trees and the bugs, it's all created by

Speaker 2 this

Speaker 2 field of information around us. And I think we're just receivers that this is how we're able

Speaker 2 to remote view. This is how you're able to

Speaker 2 do a lot of that kind of stuff because we can tap into it.

Speaker 2 this consciousness around us.

Speaker 2 It's like a wireless network.

Speaker 2 So it's complex. And, you know, I'm just guessing, just like everybody, we speculate of what is real about, you know, even God.

Speaker 2 We all speculate because we really don't know.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Were you,

Speaker 3 it's a personal question, but

Speaker 3 it sounds like the experience that you had in 2007,

Speaker 3 which we'll dive into here in just a couple minutes.

Speaker 3 It sounds like that

Speaker 3 really

Speaker 3 i don't know if it made your faith stronger or just brought you to faith in general but stronger strong so you were always a christian i was um yeah

Speaker 2 my wife's been i was a deacon in the pentecostal holiness church so i was raised um

Speaker 2 in the baptist church and i married my wife 42 years ago um congratulations we're still in love and happy

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 and she she says, you're going to marry me. You're going to go to the church with me.
You're not going to drink and all that. So I agreed.
I was 20 years old, 21, and we got married.

Speaker 2 I joined the Pentecostal church. I became a deacon in the church.
And

Speaker 2 then I ran into trouble when I had this experience with the UFO. And

Speaker 2 that created some problems for me.

Speaker 3 Interesting. Interesting.

Speaker 3 So did you come to

Speaker 3 faith because of your wife? You had to make a deal? No, no.

Speaker 1 Or was it always? No.

Speaker 2 When I was a little boy, my neighbors, I lived out in the country. I was born on and raised on a farm, right?

Speaker 2 My dad was a carpenter.

Speaker 2 I worked in tobacco and hay. And,

Speaker 2 you know, sometimes on a dairy farm, my neighbor had one.

Speaker 2 All the kids wanted to go to the local church. We had a little 1700s church that was in the Civil War.
It was a hospital. It's an old dirt driveway.

Speaker 2 It's still there. And

Speaker 2 all us kids wanted to go to church because that's where the only we could get together and have fun. And so I was deep rooted in the Baptist church until I married her.
And I had to convert from

Speaker 2 Baptist to Pentecostal, which was which is different. I'd never seen speaking in tongues and walking on the tops of the pews and shouting and all that.

Speaker 2 But that's where I ended up: Pentecostal Church. So I'm deep-rooted in my faith.
I know the Bible pretty good.

Speaker 2 But I see it differently now because I have seen

Speaker 2 something

Speaker 2 that

Speaker 2 changed my life.

Speaker 3 Were you into

Speaker 3 before this experience, were you into

Speaker 3 UFOs or extraterrestrial life or any of that? Were you

Speaker 3 nothing?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 Back in those days,

Speaker 2 I was a builder. My dad, I am actually a commercial pilot.
That was my first love, was to be a pilot. I swore I wasn't going to be a carpenter.
I wanted to be something different.

Speaker 2 My wife encouraged me when we got married to get into flying, and I did. I studied 12 years.
I actually taught weather

Speaker 2 for pilots. I was certified, college level.

Speaker 2 So that was my life until we had the third baby. And when the third baby come along, I had to make a decision.
Do I become a dad that sees my kids two days a week and

Speaker 2 basically not a part of their lives? Or do I want my children to love their dad? And so I... I changed my whole career to look after my children.
Got into the building business.

Speaker 2 And along about 2001, the World Trade Center disaster happened. And when that happened,

Speaker 2 I was caught with 72 houses under construction. We were building 100 a year, 120 houses.
My wife had the RE-MAX company in Fayetteville, and she was,

Speaker 2 I think her last year, they closed $40 million worth of homes, new and existing.

Speaker 2 But when they crashed the World Trade Center, Fort Bragg went on big alert. You know, that's where I live, Fort Bragg.
I work with

Speaker 2 the soldiers,

Speaker 2 this who buys the houses mostly.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I saw it all, a slow-motion train wreck coming, because back in those days, the interest rate on construction money was 8%, 9%,

Speaker 2 which it is now, which is terrible. That's the worst thing they could do to kill the housing business, which is happening right now.

Speaker 2 I have friends in the building business and family that are crying about that. But what happened, I had $100,000 a month going out in interest and overhead.

Speaker 2 And by the time 2005 come along, it had bled me of all life savings, 20 years worth of work.

Speaker 2 And my disease that I had been fighting since 25 years old, 26 Crohn's, got worse. And it got worse and real worse to the point that

Speaker 2 we sold the company. I couldn't even get out of bed.

Speaker 2 Oh man.

Speaker 2 I was that sick.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 I'd never thought about a UFO. I was too busy raising children and building all these houses and dealing with the, now I'm in depression.
I'm sick. I'm in the restroom 25 times or 20 times a day.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it was, it was, I thought I was going to die for a minute. I mean, really.
So that's where my brain was in 2001, right on up to when it actually happened in 07.

Speaker 3 Interesting. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, before we get into the incident, everybody on the show gets a gift.

Speaker 2 Oh, wow. Thank you for that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're welcome.

Speaker 3 Any guesses?

Speaker 2 I love it.

Speaker 2 Love it.

Speaker 2 These are the famous gummies. That's it?

Speaker 3 I love it. Vigilance League gummy bears made right here in the USA and still legal in all 50 states.

Speaker 2 I love it.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 3 but, well, Chris, let's dive in to the incident. Let's dive into

Speaker 3 what happened on the Cape Fear River.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 What were you doing that day?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 I'd sold the business, right? And

Speaker 2 there for a year,

Speaker 2 there's a part there that

Speaker 2 it's in my book. I write about this leading up to that incident.
I'd had this near-death experience in the hospital from being over-medicated from

Speaker 2 from the medicine they were giving me. They weren't checking my

Speaker 2 vitals and my liver like they were supposed to. And I went into this toxic poisoning and unconscious.
And so now I've sold my business because of all

Speaker 2 the crash. And

Speaker 2 here I am sick, really bad sick. So I'm recovering from this

Speaker 2 disaster in 05.

Speaker 2 So we fast forward to 06 in about October of 06. I had gotten better enough that my dad convinced convinced me to get out and try to

Speaker 2 work.

Speaker 2 And remember, I'd lost everything. Everything.
We were living in an 8,000 square foot home on a golf course with a pool out back. 20 years we were doing great.

Speaker 2 And now I'm living in a mobile home and I'm having to apply for free lunch for my kids.

Speaker 3 Oh, wow. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Wow. So you really ate it.

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Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 looked after a house for dad for about four months, late 2006. And

Speaker 2 it was finished up just before Christmas, but we had a punch list to do. So we all came back.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 right after the 1st, July the 1st, I mean January the 1st,

Speaker 2 the crew went back down to the coast to do the punch list. And I told them, I'm not coming.

Speaker 2 Just bring a check when you get done. So on the seventh,

Speaker 2 January the 8th of that year,

Speaker 2 They called me. We had finished.
We got it all signed off and we got got your check. So I said, well, bring it on to the house and give it to dad and he'll pay you.

Speaker 2 And so they got their checks about one or two o'clock or 12.30 or 1 o'clock. They went to town, cashed them and come back and called me and said, hey, boss, let's celebrate.
Would you take us fishing?

Speaker 2 And I knew what that meant because these guys were just construction workers. They worked with my dad for years and years.

Speaker 2 But when they wanted to go fishing, that meant I had only four-wheel-drive truck. And where they wanted to go, we had to go down in the woods to a river bottom, right?

Speaker 2 And this is gnarly going down in there. So I said, yeah, why not? Chris Jr.
was at home. My wife was out of town with the other three children.

Speaker 2 And so about 2.30 in the day, they came back. We loaded up the fishing gear.
took off to the river only three miles away.

Speaker 2 So we pulled up, parked, and if I can give give you an idea where we were,

Speaker 2 the Cape Fear River, it's not a big river, it's only like 60 yards wide where we were.

Speaker 2 And the

Speaker 2 main road,

Speaker 2 if you come up on a big field on the left, there's a two-rut road that crosses this field, it's 200 yards across to the woodline.

Speaker 2 When you get to the wood line, there's a gate and it goes downhill 100 feet to the river about an eighth of a mile. And then you make a right and you end up in a cul-de-sac another eighth of a mile.

Speaker 2 It's important I tell you this so you get what

Speaker 2 happened.

Speaker 2 So we're now sitting on the river bank parked

Speaker 2 about 2:30 or quarter to three,

Speaker 2 and I wasn't into fishing. My mind wasn't into fishing at all.
In fact, I was struggling with everything. My thoughts,

Speaker 2 I'm broke.

Speaker 2 How can I support my children? I'm 46 years old. I have this disease that's killing me.
You know, this Crohn's disease

Speaker 2 is a terrible thing.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 so that's where my brain was. While these guys were excited and Chris Jr.,

Speaker 2 I made sure they were sitting on the bank and everything's taken care of. Because in my mind, I'm going to walk away and go meditate in the forest somewhere.

Speaker 2 And so once they started fishing, I said, I'm going to walk down in the cul-de-sac to about an acre of grassy area, just round, a round acre, is where that road did in.

Speaker 2 And then the very back of it is where I had walked down along the river to a gully, and I sat beside a tree till about four o'clock.

Speaker 2 And it got very dark, not letting these guys know what I was thinking, right? That I'm depressed and I'm thinking very bad thoughts,

Speaker 2 struggling with, you know, how am I going to make it? How am I going to support my kids?

Speaker 2 And about four or ten after four, it started getting the sun going down, which is about 5.30 in January, the sun sets, right?

Speaker 2 And so I made my way back out of the woods because the canopy had made it dark. I didn't have a flashlight.
I walked right up to these guys, and they were my son, Chris Schurner, and these men.

Speaker 2 They're grown men, you know, they're running crews, have families. And I said,

Speaker 2 you guys want to fish some more? You want to go home? And they were, well, we just got here, boss. We want to fish.
I said, well, it's going to get cold tonight. Let's get a fire going.

Speaker 2 So we went around that acre, all of us, and we gathered up all the dead wood we could find and got a fire going right on the riverbank. And it was about 10 after 5 now.

Speaker 2 And I said, we had a hint of daylight still.

Speaker 2 You could see the, you know,

Speaker 2 the blue sky still. I said, I'm going to walk up to the gate, meaning I'm going the opposite direction to the way we came in.

Speaker 2 And I'm going to sit at the gate by the field and I'm going to watch for deer, kayak, turkey. So I was born and raised a hunter.

Speaker 2 And I was big into hunting, hunted all over the country, from Montana to Texas, and shot my first deer at five years old. was shot point blank in the back with a shotgun at 10.

Speaker 2 Little hole in me this big, right in my shoulder here. I have lid, you can see on this side.

Speaker 2 That was another

Speaker 2 near-death experience when I was 10.

Speaker 2 And so I left them walking.

Speaker 2 I looked back and they're sitting there by the fire and I felt like they're taken care of. I'm going to keep walking.
So all I'm doing, Sean, is crying out to the heaven.

Speaker 2 Help me. What do I do? Give me the answers.
I was a spiritual guy then in the church and I'm praying as I'm going along.

Speaker 2 And when I got within,

Speaker 2 here's the weird thing.

Speaker 2 I was just part of the way down parallel in the river when I heard something in the woods beside me. I thought it was a deer to start with.

Speaker 2 And so I stopped and I'm looking, trying to look through this thick brush.

Speaker 2 and couldn't see anything. So I walked some more.
And when I started walking, it started walking. Scared me then.
I don't ever get scared in the woods. I mean,

Speaker 2 I'm in the Boone and Crockett record book for shooting one of the biggest black bears

Speaker 2 in North America. Back then, it was one of the records, 660 pounds, and I shot him from six foot away.
I mean, that's how,

Speaker 2 you know, I wasn't afraid then. It was too quick to be afraid.
He'd come out at me.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 I got afraid.

Speaker 2 Then this sound started sounding like two feet.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 so I stopped. I got down on my knees and I looked under the brush because along the edges it's really thick.
Once you get in the woods, it'll open up right because of the tree canopy.

Speaker 2 Never could see what that was. Three times it had me to stop and to get down to see what was that tracking me.

Speaker 2 So when I got to the curve or to the

Speaker 2 to the to the point where the road turned west and started up the hill,

Speaker 2 the sound stopped.

Speaker 2 And I'm looking up at a sky that I thought the sun was still about the top of the trees or so on, but I couldn't tell because I'm looking uphill at a metal gate, cattle gate at the top of that hill.

Speaker 2 And it's a long haul up there, about 100 feet to go up. And it's ruts, muddy ruts and grass, you know, some places knee-high.
So I'm having to watch watch every step. And it's starting to get dark.

Speaker 2 And the closer I got to the top of that hill, I'm not hearing this in the woods beside me now. And I wanted to tell you that because it'll come back in the picture here in a second.

Speaker 2 I got about 30 feet from the top of that hill, and I began to see what I thought was the sun, the top of it, just the very top of it.

Speaker 2 And I walked up. Over the horizon? Yeah, over just, you know, I got a gate.
I'm looking up at a gate, a metal gate. The road goes up.
And I could see the sun just barely above that gate

Speaker 2 and the top of the trees.

Speaker 2 For the first, when I first glanced at it, I didn't think much about it. I looked down to take another step because I didn't want to walk in the mud.

Speaker 2 And about three more steps up the hill, there it was in full view. And it was

Speaker 2 this blood-red, tangerine-orange ball of fire about 40 or 50 feet around

Speaker 2 and I was like oh my god what is that I could see the flames going around it and the tips were shooting off this thing's huge like big and it's only

Speaker 2 300 yards away it's just beyond the road and just at the top of the trees and sitting there it kind of frightened me a second but I'm curious I walked up two more steps and when I did now my

Speaker 2 field of view has gotten wider because I don't have the trees of the road. You know, I'm looking up the chute.
Now I can see more. And there's a second one right beside it.

Speaker 2 And that's when chills came over me. So you want, I couldn't explain it.
I dropped to my knees because by doing that, I'm using the heel to hide from them.

Speaker 2 So I'd raise my head up and I could see they were there. And I'm sitting here on the ground thinking, what in the world is this? I knew it wasn't nothing from this world or from the military.

Speaker 2 You know, I'm trained in

Speaker 2 that.

Speaker 2 In fact, I have military manuals that were given to me for, you know, they used to get you to train on different types of aircraft from Russian to, so that's in my world of aviation.

Speaker 2 So I automatically knew. what I'm looking at wasn't a helicopter.
It wasn't something of ours.

Speaker 2 So I'm hiding there and I crawl over to the ditch into these reeds, you know,

Speaker 2 reeds that are

Speaker 2 growing wetlands. And so I'm peeking through these reeds thinking I'm hiding from what I'm seeing, not realizing they'd see me.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I start making my decision to run. I got to run.
Because I'm thinking about Chris Jr. back behind me down the hill.
I've gotten frightened. I sat there long enough it really frightened me bad.

Speaker 2 So I made a plan to run and I turned my body. I'm sitting on the ground and my knees hiding, right? So I raise up and I turn my body to run.
I'm in the motion to run. And I look back one more time.

Speaker 2 I got to see what's up there. And when I did, straight above me, a third one appeared and went shot right down beside the other two.

Speaker 2 And I knew then,

Speaker 2 I knew it saw me. I knew I was on its radar.
And that's a different feeling. You know, somebody can see a ball of light fly by.
Oh my God, I saw a UFO, and that does something to you.

Speaker 2 But when you see it and it responds to you, and it's the way that did,

Speaker 2 I knew I felt like a rat, a lab rat, or I was, you know, I'm in trouble. So I, last, the next thing I know,

Speaker 2 I'm about 50 yards from from the fire and I'm kind of walking through this mud and I have no recollection of what happened coming down that hill.

Speaker 2 I only could remember the last 50 yards of it going up to the fire.

Speaker 2 These three men are standing there around the fire. They're no longer fishing.
Fire's burned down to this

Speaker 2 little small fire.

Speaker 2 And they're looking down, talking.

Speaker 2 They couldn't see me coming because I didn't have a flashlight. I'm coming out of the dark.
I could see them from the fire.

Speaker 2 And I snuck up on them and I said, hey guys, you won't believe what just happened. And the first thing one said, where Andy, and I'm not going to use the words they use, but where have you been?

Speaker 2 I said, I was just up at the hill. What do you mean? I told you I was going up to the field.
They said, you've been gone all night. I said, no, I haven't.
I've been gone 20 minutes.

Speaker 2 And we're arguing this, and I noticed Chris Jr.'s not there. And I told him, you won't believe what I just saw up at the top of that hill, these three balls of fire.

Speaker 2 Then immediately, where's Chris Jr.? Well, he went looking for you two hours ago, and we can't find him now.

Speaker 2 He walked into the cul-de-sac and to the far end of the cul-de-sac where you had gone earlier that day, searching for you. And I panicked, oh my God, these woods are huge.

Speaker 2 You know, 60 miles to Wilmington from where we are, and of nothing but forests along that river. And all I could think is he's lost in there, 17 years old, no flashlight.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 they're telling me that one stayed at the fire while the other two took my truck. And they even pointed out my truck had been moved from where I parked it.

Speaker 2 They said, we've been everywhere looking for you all night. And

Speaker 2 so I immediately took off running to the back of that cul-de-sac shouting for Junior. I was worried about what happened to me up there.
I was freaked, right? And here's my son missing.

Speaker 2 And I I started making my way into the woods. And around the edges of any field, especially where we live, it's real thick because it's just shrubbery, right?

Speaker 2 Same. And so I'm parting this stuff and I'm calling out for Chris Tuner.
And I get about 10 feet in there and I hear him. He wasn't answering me until I walked right up, almost stepped on him.

Speaker 2 And he came up out of these bushes and he grabbed me and he's weeping.

Speaker 3 This is your son. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's

Speaker 3 traumatic

Speaker 2 because of the struggle he had.

Speaker 2 And it wasn't because of that so much it was after, right? It was a lot of trouble after that

Speaker 2 that he went through.

Speaker 2 And we'll talk more about that in a second. But But

Speaker 2 to see your son in shock,

Speaker 2 eyes like this,

Speaker 2 shaking.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 he's like, why did you leave me?

Speaker 3 What was your initial thought?

Speaker 3 When you saw your son like that, what did you think happened?

Speaker 2 I was freaking out. I didn't want to tell him what had happened to me because he's talking out of his, he's saying things like, these creatures, dad, these creatures, why did you leave me?

Speaker 2 Why did you leave me? I said, leave you, son. I've been gone but 20 minutes.
He's no, daddy, you've been gone all night.

Speaker 3 And how old was he at the time? 17.

Speaker 2 He's a baby. You know, there are babies at that age.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 so he began to tell me, I grabbed him. All he wanted to do is go home.
He wanted to go home. He didn't want no more what happened to him.

Speaker 2 And so what happened was where he was at the back of that cul-de-sac, he could see all the way down parallel to the river to the end where I made the turn and started up the hill.

Speaker 2 So it's a quarter mile he could see all the way down. And he's over there in the edge of the forest calling out for me while they're driving the truck.

Speaker 2 One guy's sitting at the fire and the fire is between, you know, he's got to walk

Speaker 2 toward the, you know, toward what he saw coming to get to the fire.

Speaker 2 so he sees these two red lights

Speaker 2 cross the road and he thought they were flashlights like military they used to i used to have a military flashlight that had a red on it right and you remember those

Speaker 2 and so that was his first thought there were there were somebody's walking with these red flashlights so they crossed the road over to the riverside disappear So he takes off and he runs back to the fire and he tells these guys about these two lights he saw

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 then he turns and he goes back to the back of that cul-de-sac still calling for me

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 about that time these two red lights come back out of the riverside back out in the road and they start towards him now these two balls of light they look like this big and they're floating three feet off the ground coming all the way down that road and as they got closer to him he got scared and he started hiding so he laid down on his stomach and crawled up under back up under the thickest rubs and they came up within 20 feet of him and what he saw were these two little glowing beings that were yay high

Speaker 2 probably three two and a half three feet tall and they had these bright red eyes

Speaker 2 And the whole time one was staring at him, he couldn't shout. He couldn't move.
He was in such terror, he was frozen.

Speaker 2 And I don't know if they had the power to keep him from, he thought that they had that power over him. As long as they were looking at him, he couldn't speak.
So he was gone a total of two hours. And

Speaker 2 I don't know how long exactly he was there with these little beings walking around him, but it really, it put him in jog.

Speaker 2 And so I led him back to the fire. And these guys were freaked out too, because they'd heard

Speaker 2 what happened. They didn't know what happened.
They knew that I'd been gone all night. And Junior's talking about creatures, and I'm talking about balls of fire at the top of the hill.

Speaker 2 So these men are starting to get spooked real bad.

Speaker 2 And one of the guys looks up and points, oh, look at that. And we all look up and it looked like the brightest star, Venus, in the night sky.
when it's just as brightest.

Speaker 2 It was eight or nine of these just appeared and they just came on and they went out away from one another and they came back in a circle and they made this big circle and they were putting on a shove.

Speaker 2 And then three of these things came all the way down and landed across the river, 60 yards to the other side of that river.

Speaker 2 They were up on the other side of it in a cut down that had timbered the place out.

Speaker 2 So you can imagine panemonium set in at that moment. We left out of there with fishing poles still there, coolers, everything we brought, we didn't even wait to touch it.

Speaker 2 And we jumped in that truck and I'm taking off up through this muddy road and one of the guys is beating on the back of my seat

Speaker 2 saying, go, go, go. And there's this red ball of light coming up behind us, following the truck.
So undoubtedly it came out of the back of that cul-de-sac, still in there.

Speaker 2 and was coming up behind the truck. They were screaming to the top of their lungs.
But the weird thing is, Sean, I was like numb to it. I wasn't afraid.

Speaker 2 I'd lost all fear from where I was when it appeared on the top of that hill to now I'm not afraid.

Speaker 2 So we make the turn and we start up that hill and I'm going so hard with that Ford truck up that hill and it's wallering in the ruts and you know the shrubs on either side of brushing the mirrors I sit down in the swamp.

Speaker 2 And when I crossed the top of that hill, that gate, it was almost like I liken it to an old streets of San Francisco, maybe where the cars would jump when they go over the hills.

Speaker 2 We almost went airborne.

Speaker 2 That's how fast we were trying to depart that place. But when we topped that hill, those three orange oars, two of them were still in the exact same spot.

Speaker 2 Are you serious? Yeah, now we got three 40-foot balls of white light on the riverbank behind us and something, an orb, which I know what it was.

Speaker 2 It was one of those beings that our eyes from a distance looked like a little ball of light. You can't really tell.

Speaker 2 And so now we're faced with two 40-foot balls of fire, 300 yards and about 200 feet in the air in front. And the third one is the one that took me.
That's the one that appeared above me and shot down.

Speaker 2 That thing now is sitting in the road. And it's halfway between us and the highway.
So it's 100, 150 yards away.

Speaker 2 And when I went over that hill, I slammed on brakes because of that. It's sitting there.
It looks like a football now. It's going white.
It changed from red to white.

Speaker 2 And it's sitting sideways in the road, just hovering about five feet off the ground, and it looks like an egg or a football. About that time, we heard gunshots, and

Speaker 2 We all heard them, and we thought immediately one of these country boys has pulled out the shotgun and they're shooting at this thing. So it just pivots and it starts towards us.

Speaker 2 It's coming down the road at us five feet off the ground. Then it starts up.

Speaker 2 But I want to back back one second.

Speaker 2 Before we heard the gunshots, there's this mobile home in the back of that field. And there were two cars there.

Speaker 2 And one of the guys with me says, I know who that is. That's Shane.

Speaker 2 I play softball with him. So let's go to his house.
Nobody had a phone. I didn't have a cell phone.
I couldn't afford one. Nobody had one.

Speaker 2 And we just wanted somebody to see this with us, right? So I drove across the ditch, up in this man's yard, pulled my truck right up to his front door. And the storm door is open.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's closed, but the front door is open. So we could see the TV playing through the door, two cars in the yard.
And one of the guys gets out, knocks on the door. Nobody answers.

Speaker 2 And I even blew the horn. My truck's, you know, six feet from the front door, headlights blaring in.
And I'm looking back through the window, and there's a thing sitting in the road behind us, right?

Speaker 2 Because the mobile home was facing the way out, and we had turned up to the door, and that orb stood, I mean, this football was still there, 100, 150 yards. Nobody answers.

Speaker 2 So I back back out and I pull back out in the road. Now I'm about 40 or 50 yards closer to this thing because we had to go forward to get to this mobile home.

Speaker 2 About that time, the three gunshots happen, and then it starts, and it comes and it comes.

Speaker 2 And when it gets to my truck, I opened the sunroof on it, and it crossed over the top of my truck, and it was probably 60 feet up.

Speaker 2 I could have shot it with a homemade slingshot,

Speaker 2 and it hit this thing. No sound, just glowing

Speaker 2 white light that was doing this.

Speaker 3 Did it look solid, or did it look kind of translucent?

Speaker 2 It looked

Speaker 2 once it got that close to us, it looked almost,

Speaker 2 it was blinding from the light. But at a distance, it looked like an egg.

Speaker 2 It's hard to tell it was translucent because of the light coming off of the thing. But it was definitely shifted from a red ball of fire to a football or an egg or a Tic-Tac.

Speaker 2 And I'll tell you how I got involved with government because when I reported that thing,

Speaker 2 I'll tell that in a minute. So here this thing comes over my truck.

Speaker 2 Right when it got up.

Speaker 3 Was it passing through things or was it moving around things?

Speaker 2 It moved up and over a tree in front of me. There was a

Speaker 2 tree.

Speaker 3 So it wasn't like it was passing through trees or trucks or

Speaker 2 anything.

Speaker 3 It was doing both.

Speaker 2 No, this one, it came down the road and it was one tree between us and it to the side. It went up and over.
And when it came over the truck, it cleared the trees behind me.

Speaker 2 There's a solid stand of woods behind me. So it had to have been about 80 feet at the most to clear them trees.
And then it turned, it pivoted and shot off to the north. So I had to gasp.

Speaker 2 And now I'm flying out of there. And these guys are, it's the end of the world.
We've been invaded. Where's the military? Where's Fort Bragg?

Speaker 2 Get me home so I can see my wife before this before it's over. I mean, it was just drastic.
Now I'm no longer afraid.

Speaker 2 I wasn't afraid like they were. They were all terrified.
So I'm sitting back kind of numb watching this take place. I wanted to get out of the truck and look at it.

Speaker 2 You know, they were like having nothing to do with that. So we take off and we start

Speaker 2 toward dropping these guys off. One of them lived, or two of them lived side by side about two and a half miles away.
The other one lived about six miles away, seven miles.

Speaker 2 They were fighting who got to go home first so bad that

Speaker 2 this guy that lived seven miles away went out. So we had to drive to him, drop him off, and turn around and come back to drop the other two off, right?

Speaker 2 But on the way, we had orbs, balls of light, tracking us alongside the truck, crossing over in front of us.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 one of the most,

Speaker 2 this these kinds of details that I'm going to tell you now all played a major part in my understanding of what was going on

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 halfway there between where we were and and the home of the first two guys two and a half miles right

Speaker 2 halfway there is a dead man's curve I mean, it's a sharp curve. It's like if you go through it at 35, you're having a hard time.

Speaker 2 The car just,

Speaker 2 you could lose it real easy. In fact,

Speaker 2 my first wife was killed there in that curve, and I found her.

Speaker 3 What do you mean you found her?

Speaker 2 It was a weird thing.

Speaker 3 You found her that night?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 I'm going to tell you, in 1981 or 2, 82,

Speaker 2 we'd been married 11 months and 28 days. So we had two days before our wedding anniversary.
And I had gone deer hunting to the coast with my dad.

Speaker 2 And we were hunting islands with dogs, right?

Speaker 2 And my neighbor, friend, growing up, we had a hunting club out in the middle of nowhere on 4,000 acres of land.

Speaker 2 Dad had it for 25 years. And that's where all the young kids would go and party on Friday night or Saturday night.
They'd have a a keg party or whatever.

Speaker 2 And I'd gone hunting and they all caught me, you got to come to the party. And so my wife said, I'll meet you there.

Speaker 2 She went to the party. I got home about eight o'clock from the coast, got dressed and took off down to the party.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 she left the party and went through that curve too fast and rode in over and into somebody's front yard.

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Speaker 2 And I saw the car laying on its side when I went by going to this party, and the wheels were still turning. I didn't recognize the car.

Speaker 2 I got out, and the people were in at the front door of their house, opened the door, and looked out right when I walked up in the yard. They heard it.
So I was there within 60 seconds of it happening.

Speaker 2 And I said, Have you seen the person driving this car? And they said, No, I said, You better call 911. It looks pretty bad.

Speaker 2 And I had envisioned whoever was in that car because the car's laying on its side, the wheels are still turning. The motor's running.

Speaker 2 Nobody's in the car. All the windows broke out.

Speaker 2 So I walked back toward the highway, and that's where I found her.

Speaker 2 Had no clue.

Speaker 3 Oh man.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 she died right there, me

Speaker 2 her. And so

Speaker 2 I lived a long time

Speaker 2 stressed over that, never could get over it. You know, her,

Speaker 2 I should have been there. You know, it was my fault.

Speaker 2 And so I lived with that. Well, that night coming home from the river.

Speaker 3 What was your wife's name?

Speaker 2 It was Dana.

Speaker 2 And that whole... incident on the river on the way home, we approaching that dead man's curve, right over the spot where she was killed is this big thing hovering right over top.
I slammed on brakes.

Speaker 2 I saw it immediately where it was and I wanted to get out and look at it up under it. I mean it was right above us.
It was just above this big high-tension power line. Well they were fighting me bad.

Speaker 2 They're not having none of this.

Speaker 2 But what I wanted to say was that

Speaker 2 at that moment, it spoke to me telepathically or whatever

Speaker 2 and said, you need to not worry about her.

Speaker 2 She's in good hands.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 I take these guys on home, right? I never told them this, what happened. I only wrote about it years later.

Speaker 2 But that's when I got peace from the whole incident after 15, well, 25, 30 years or 20 years at least. I can't do the math.
It was in 2007. We were married in 1982.

Speaker 2 I finally got peace from that. Everybody's terrorized by UFOs, orbs,

Speaker 2 lights. And I'm thinking about

Speaker 2 this relief from what. So I'm in a different world from them now, right? And I still don't know what happened to me.
I had no clue what happened for four hours. Couldn't believe it.

Speaker 2 So I dropped these guys off. Chris Junior and I head back home.
Now he's, I'm worried about him. He's panicked.
He's going through the house, locking it down.

Speaker 2 Every room, he'd close the door and lock, even the bathroom. And he'd turn the lights on and run up, shut the blind, turn all the lights and lock the door.

Speaker 2 I'm in my study looking on TV to try to find news. You know, there's an invasion happening.
We just knew this. It was crickets.
I couldn't find anything. So Junior finally comes to the room and says,

Speaker 2 have you found anything? I said, no, son. And then about that time, we hear something come over the house with its humming noise.

Speaker 2 I thought it was a helicopter because it was coming from Bragg's direction, which is only, you know, 20, 15 miles from me, from the base, 20 miles. And it's heading exactly towards the river.

Speaker 2 And suddenly,

Speaker 2 once it goes out of hearing, every dog in our kennel started barking. Now, my dad raised dogs all his life.
He had 100 at the time when I'm growing up. And even then, he had 15 hounds in that kennel.

Speaker 2 And they're all, these old hounds got a loud mouth right and they're barking as loud as they can. And what it sounded like was they were afraid.

Speaker 2 Dogs can bark different sounds. And you can, anybody who knows hunting knows.
what a dog's saying.

Speaker 2 I knew they were scared. They were seeing something.
They didn't know what it was.

Speaker 2 I said, Junior, the only thing I could think of is where dad's kennel was is in the forest behind his house back in the head of the woods. And he had a double car separate garage next to the kennel.

Speaker 2 So the dogs could see the kennel. I thought somebody had come from the road and was breaking into his shop.

Speaker 2 And the dogs saw.

Speaker 2 And that was what was going on in my head. And Junior is like, we're not going out there.
I said, Dad, I said, Junior,

Speaker 2 we won't use a flashlight. We'll sneak down in there and we'll use Rosie.
I had a 110-pound Chesapeake Bay retriever sitting on the back steps and her hair was standing up.

Speaker 2 She's watching towards the kennel in the woods

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 this awful racket, right?

Speaker 2 And I finally convinced him to go with me. or stay, whichever he wanted.
And he was scared to be by himself. So he grabbed me by the back of the shirt, and I'm walking real slow.

Speaker 2 I walked out the door and Rosie took off toward the kennel, ran out of sight.

Speaker 2 We walked across the lawn to a two-rout road, went down in the woods, got to the back of that kennel.

Speaker 2 And now all these dogs, and imagine they're very loud, and we're standing there looking at 15 hounds in a kennel, barking as hard as they can towards the woods in the back. Oh, this is weird.

Speaker 2 These dogs should be looking toward the garage.

Speaker 2 And I'm whispering to Juna. Rosie's right there in front of us, pointing in the woods.
Her hair is standing up, barking every breath. I said, Jenner,

Speaker 2 I said, it must be a bear. Dogs not scared of deer, but they will do this on a bear sometimes.
The scent is,

Speaker 2 they get scared.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I said, I'm going to put Rosie in on whatever's in there, and she'll run them out. We're going to run back to the yard

Speaker 2 and go to the back of the property. We made a plan and we're going to hide behind this giant oak tree and hope we can cut her off before she runs through.

Speaker 2 So as soon as I bumped her on the bus, she jumped in the woods and Jenner and I took off running. We had to go to the end of that road, make a left in the yard and go to about 400 feet, 500 feet.

Speaker 2 There's a big yard, six acres there.

Speaker 2 to cut whatever's in there off. And I just knew it would be a bear or deer or something.
So when I made the left turn, it was the grass was a little

Speaker 2 now we got frosts, right? It was cold that night. You're talking about 11 o'clock now.

Speaker 2 He pulled loose from me. So I thought I just pulled away from him when I slipped a little bit.
But what happened was he had had enough. He took a right, went back to the house.
He's in the back.

Speaker 2 I didn't know that though. I'm running to the back hard as I can.

Speaker 2 Ran up to this big tree and I ran so hard I was trying to be quiet and I'm trying to catch my breath so I'm panting,

Speaker 2 trying to be quiet with it, right? And I've stopped myself against the tree.

Speaker 2 And so I turned around after about a few seconds of stopping and panting. Dog's coming straight at me.
It's coming through the forest. And I looked back to see if Chris Jr.
was going to come up.

Speaker 2 And when I did, there was a little, the same thing he described on the river, this little glowing being about yay tall with glowing red eyes.

Speaker 2 And it was glowing the color of the moon. It looked like a child.
It looked like a four-year-old child about that size. Didn't look like a gray alien or none of that, what people report.

Speaker 2 It looked like

Speaker 2 a glowing little child.

Speaker 2 But the details shiny. This thing was glassy.
It was gleaming. The body looked like it had glass on it.

Speaker 2 And about that time,

Speaker 2 when I turned back and saw it, it frightened me so bad that my hair stood up. Every cell of my body went, oh my God, I'm dead.

Speaker 2 So I went toward the trees to turn around instead of where I was standing because I didn't want to get no closer to it.

Speaker 2 So I leaned into the tree and I turned and put my back to the tree and I said, I surrender.

Speaker 2 I don't mean you harm.

Speaker 2 And it said to me in this thunderous voice, it said, You don't understand.

Speaker 2 I'm not here to hurt you. We're here to help you.

Speaker 2 About that time, Rosie comes on through and this thing vanishes in front of me. I didn't see it anymore.

Speaker 2 I walked up to the house, trying to figure out why it just happened and how not to tell Chris Jr. what I had just seen because he didn't want that around him any longer.

Speaker 2 And next morning, when I get up

Speaker 2 about 10 o'clock that day, I hadn't had my medication. And I had been taking medication for 17 years for Crohn's.

Speaker 2 And if I missed it one day,

Speaker 2 it was supper time. Yeah, I took it every day.
If I missed a day, the next three days, my system would get out of whack and it was more restroom, right?

Speaker 2 And I didn't feel the normal sickness that I normally have. I didn't feel the nausea.
I didn't feel any of it. And I thought, this is weird.

Speaker 2 You know, I've been living with this every day and now I don't feel it.

Speaker 2 And from that point forward, I never had another symptoms of Crohn's disease. It was completely gone.
I've been to Chapel Hill University.

Speaker 2 I've had specialists check me out from top to bottom, and there is no marker for Crohn's being there. And see, I come down with rheumatoid years later, 2009.

Speaker 2 And I've been treated since then for rheumatoid arthritis. And they thought it was the Crohn's that had come back, but it wasn't.
The Crohn's didn't come back as rheumatoid. There's no marker there.

Speaker 2 And RA was a different story. But

Speaker 2 long story short, that was

Speaker 2 the end of the

Speaker 2 January 7th. initial encounter, walking back to that house and trying to get my son settled down from the shock that he'd been through.
Now I'm kind of,

Speaker 2 I'm in shock basically myself, but not

Speaker 2 because of seeing this stuff and trying to

Speaker 2 process it.

Speaker 2 It's not natural. It's not normal.

Speaker 3 What was your first conversation with your son afterwards?

Speaker 2 I told him, I said, son, I said, I believe they're angels.

Speaker 2 He said, no, daddy, they had to be,

Speaker 2 he couldn't even get it out.

Speaker 2 They were demonic entities. I said, no, they weren't, son.
They were angels. They healed me.
So we battled that for

Speaker 2 months.

Speaker 2 And here's the thing. It never left me.
I mean, it never left. And to this day, it's still with me.
And I mean, stronger today than it was back then.

Speaker 2 This is why the government has studied me. They've studied me more than any human in existence.
From DIA, CIA, DOD,

Speaker 2 the Ministry of Defense in England,

Speaker 2 CIA, Jim Simivan wrote the forward to my book. He's the director of operations for the CIA.
John Alexander wrote

Speaker 2 the forward

Speaker 2 or introduction. They both shared and write.

Speaker 2 We went through the longest time trying to convince him, I did, that it was positive. And

Speaker 2 it got worse for him because from that point forward,

Speaker 2 this is where

Speaker 2 I want to say,

Speaker 2 if I could say this word, this is where hell set in for me

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 I'm telling everybody.

Speaker 2 They put it in my head that night that I had to tell the world.

Speaker 2 So I compared myself to Richard Dreyfus on close encounters of the third kind where he was making the mashed potato devil's tower on his table. He could see it.

Speaker 2 He was completely obsessed with this phenomenon.

Speaker 2 And I was as well. All I wanted to do is tell everybody.
Well, that was the worst thing I did because now the church comes down on.

Speaker 2 You're playing with demons. It's got to be demonic in it.
I'm like, no, it's not.

Speaker 3 Who was the first person you told?

Speaker 2 Probably my wife. She came home a couple days later.
She'd been gone, and of course we had called her and all, but

Speaker 2 she goes,

Speaker 2 and let me say, her family

Speaker 2 are

Speaker 2 the...

Speaker 2 They brought the Pentecostal movement to North Carolina. They went to California.
They were at Excissus Street. Her

Speaker 2 ancestors, they brought brought it back to Falcon, North Carolina, built orphanage. So I had the weight of the whole conference on me, not just some local church down the street.

Speaker 2 So there was a lot of power there.

Speaker 2 And other churches, the local churches, my mother, my very religious lady, all at that time.

Speaker 2 They all automatically resorted to it. It's the devil.
It's demonic, you know. And I'm saying, but they healed me, and that wasn't what I experienced.

Speaker 2 And they got so bad that they tried to take my children from me. They wanted to divide my family, they were telling my kids that I'm playing with the devil, he's going to ruin them children.

Speaker 2 Somebody calls social services on me. I had to deal with that

Speaker 2 with the government to try to

Speaker 2 just

Speaker 2 keep my kids, right?

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 so, yeah, that started a really hard time.

Speaker 3 You had mentioned that the

Speaker 3 third object that appeared seemed to know your thoughts.

Speaker 2 It does. Now,

Speaker 3 what exactly does that mean?

Speaker 2 These things can read your mind. They're connected to our thoughts.

Speaker 2 This is why one thing I can promise you, If you're a God-fearing man and you know the Bible, one thing that the church knows is they always preach, and you hear it all the time.

Speaker 2 Only God can read your thoughts. Only heaven, not that the devil can't read your thoughts, right?

Speaker 2 So this is something taught to all Christians from early on.

Speaker 2 The devil can whisper in your ear, but he can't read your mind. Well,

Speaker 2 they read your mind and they know every, they're connected to us.

Speaker 2 They're connected to our thoughts. They know your heart.
They know your intentions. and somehow or another, Sean,

Speaker 2 they have the ability to stop the timeline, to

Speaker 2 manifest things, to make things happen, and to,

Speaker 2 I've seen it a thousand times. People come to see the phenomenon with, I have as many as 75 with me at the time, and it appears.

Speaker 2 But there are certain people, if they're afraid, or if they're

Speaker 2 they're um

Speaker 2 they're skeptical,

Speaker 2 I can tell you, skeptical people about this phenomenon will never see anything. They're left out.
Because they know your free will. They don't want to

Speaker 2 change or go against your free will.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 they can appear in a group of 50 people standing beside me, and that one skeptical person

Speaker 2 will look that way for one second and it'll appear in front of everybody else. I've seen it a thousand times.
It knows how to, it knows where you're going to look

Speaker 2 before you look.

Speaker 3 Interesting.

Speaker 2 Yeah, seriously.

Speaker 3 You had mentioned, I believe you had two near-death experiences before this incident. One at age 10?

Speaker 2 10. I was shot point blank with a shotgun.

Speaker 3 What was that near-death experience?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 it was New Year's Day, 1972,

Speaker 2 after hunting season.

Speaker 2 Season had gone out on the 31st, and so it was fix the roads on Saturday and cook a hog. So we've got all these men that's part of the club route repairing the roads and all the farm, right?

Speaker 2 And my grandfather and the farmer that owned the land was at the club tending to the hog on the cooker. So myself at 10 and my best friend and my first cousin grabbed a shotgun, took off about

Speaker 2 a mile away, three quarters of a mile. We walked to the back of a cornfield and we spread out and we were going to shoot doves, right? It was dove seed.

Speaker 2 And this bird came over. My neighbor, he shot at it and missed it.
It came right over and I shot and it turned and it went away and landed in the woods. I knew I'd hit it.

Speaker 2 So I took off across the field walking. I had a double barrel shotgun in my hand.
I walked up to the edge of the woods and I saw him in there in a pile of briars

Speaker 2 fluttering around. So I thought, I better put a shell in my gun in case it gets up and flies away.

Speaker 2 So I cracked that double barrel open and I pulled two shells out of my coat and I put one in and dropped the other.

Speaker 2 Did not know that my friend wanted to claim that he shot the bird right and ran across the field behind me. I didn't know he was there, ran up right behind me.

Speaker 2 And when I reached over to pick that shell off, he was going to shoot over me. He'd shoot that bird claim.

Speaker 2 Kids,

Speaker 2 when I stood up, it hit me right square

Speaker 2 in the shoulder, blew a hole this big. I have a scar that big on my back.
Now, imagine a 10-year-old. I was only this tall.

Speaker 2 It felt like a sledgehammer hit me. It drove drove me about 10 feet forward and face down in the forest.

Speaker 2 And the first thing I felt blood running everywhere. And I said,

Speaker 2 why did you shoot me? And now my cousin's coming across the field and they're fighting. They're screaming at one another.
Go get help. He's my cousin.
I'm staying with him. He's my best friend.

Speaker 2 I almost stayed. That's what they were doing.
I'm laying there bleeding to death. And so the farmer heard them fighting.
and here he comes down that cornfield in an old pickup truck.

Speaker 2 It was blue and white Ford from the 60s.

Speaker 2 And he runs in the woods, picks me up

Speaker 2 like a sack of potatoes, and threw me in his truck.

Speaker 2 Took me to the hospital. Next thing I know, I'm up in space looking down

Speaker 2 way up high. I can see the Earth getting smaller and smaller and smaller.
And then I wake up and

Speaker 2 I'm out of surgery and I'm in an x-ray room back then. I had so much lead in me from birdshot that I still have 17 pieces in here.
You can see it on this side, all in this shoulder and this front.

Speaker 2 I set the airport x-ray machine off. They'll pat me down most every time I go through because of that.

Speaker 2 But all I remember is seeing the earth from above and being out of my body in total peace.

Speaker 2 I wasn't cold. I wasn't afraid.
I was just at a marvel of looking at all this. And then when I came back to, there's my mom looking through the window crying.

Speaker 3 What about the, what was the other one? You had too much medication for the Crohn's disease?

Speaker 2 Well, I'll tell you what they did. And this is in the book.
There's a whole lot in this book I've not covered. I've glossed over.

Speaker 2 Along about 2004,

Speaker 2 my Crohn's was so bad. I mean, it was in bad shape.
And I was in such depression because I had lost $19 million

Speaker 2 in savings and net worth. Gone.
I sold every apartment building or house I had, rentals, had a lot of them, just to pay interest.

Speaker 2 And we sold the business to a really big builder from North Carolina that builds 1,500 homes a year.

Speaker 2 And my doctor is treating me. He's like, you know,

Speaker 2 he would just hug me and cry with me

Speaker 2 because we've been friends forever.

Speaker 2 He said,

Speaker 2 I'm sorry for getting emotional here. Thinking back is hard.

Speaker 2 Today it's wonderful and joyful. It's a different world today, but those old memories are tough.
But he said, look,

Speaker 2 there's a new study out. There's this antidepressant medicine called Paxil that's supposed to show help for Crohn's because stomach problems are exacerbated from stress.

Speaker 2 The more you worry, the worse it gets. And I was so bad that my whole inside was inflamed and was very painful.
And so he puts me on Paxil.

Speaker 2 And he tells me I should probably have somebody to talk to. So he sends me to a psychiatrist, right?

Speaker 2 Never thought about anything like that. And I was embarrassed to go, but he convinced me you need to do this.
So I go to the psychiatrist. And I thought it was odd when I walked into his room.

Speaker 2 He was smoking a cigarette and laughing and talking to me. And he only spent five minutes with me.
He looks at my paperwork and what the doctor prescribed.

Speaker 2 He said, oh, you're you're on all the wrong stuff.

Speaker 2 He didn't take me off that. He added more to it.
He just added a couple prescriptions that said, take this and come back in five days or, you know, next week or seven days.

Speaker 2 Every week I had to go back once a week.

Speaker 2 And within 60 days, I didn't know who I was. And I had gone into...

Speaker 2 I was unconscious. And what he did, he had put me on something called lithium.
I didn't know what it it was. I didn't know even what the scripple was.
He didn't tell me that's what it was.

Speaker 2 He just wrote these prescriptions.

Speaker 2 And the thing, when you take that, you're supposed to test your liver for metals and all your system, your organs can fail because of toxic metal poisoning. Well, that's what happened to me.

Speaker 2 I woke up in the hospital. I was laying on a stretcher, completely covered from head to toe.

Speaker 2 And I come up out of my body, and I was at the ceiling and I could see down my wife sitting there. Three doctors walked in the room and she was crying.

Speaker 2 And I never forget I heard the doctor's name, which I won't say it now because of his privacy, but the guy said, good evening, doctor.

Speaker 2 This is the 113th patient that this physician has injured or put in a hospital.

Speaker 2 Come to find out, the guy that was treating me had gone off the deep end and was

Speaker 2 taking medication himself. I don't know what he was taking, but he overdosed and died while I was in the hospital.
He put 113 patients of his in the hospital and overdosed and died.

Speaker 2 This happened. This is in the book.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, why?

Speaker 2 It's like getting shot. I didn't want that.
I didn't ask for it. It just happened.
And now here it is. Somebody else has poisoned me.

Speaker 2 Or it it was always it seems like everything that's happened to me has been out of my hands and there's a lot in this book that I've been through from third degree burns catching on fire when I was two years old I had big scars up my legs to a brand new transam in 79 blew up 2,000 miles in the radiator it overheated and the radiator exploded and put put me in the hospital with third-degree burns from my neck out to this arm i had skin grafts

Speaker 2 A brand new car. So I thought all my life something's trying to keep me from being here or keep me from doing something one day.

Speaker 3 So the near-death experience was you witnessing the conversation between the doctor and your wife? Yes.

Speaker 3 Anything else?

Speaker 2 That's all I remember. It was...

Speaker 3 And then you're back in your head.

Speaker 2 I'm back in my body and miserable now, you know, recovering. And

Speaker 2 yeah.

Speaker 3 All right, Chris. Well, let's let's take a uh let's take a quick break and then we'll move on to what happened afterwards.

Speaker 2 Okay, uh yeah

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Speaker 3 All right, Chris, we just went into the event

Speaker 3 and what happened there. Thank you for the very descriptive event.

Speaker 3 I was hoping, well, I guess I shouldn't say I was hoping, I I was wondering if anything had happened in those near-death experiences that might relate to this, but it doesn't sound like there was really anything that related to this.

Speaker 3 It all relates. It does.

Speaker 2 Yes. It all relates to it.
In fact, I believe that

Speaker 2 when I was 10 years old, when that happened to me, it was so traumatic. You know, I grew up with a gun in my hand, five years old.

Speaker 2 You know, it was just part of being where I was raised. You know, 10 years old, I'm carrying a gun and got shot.
So

Speaker 2 my whole life changed to

Speaker 2 a different perspective.

Speaker 2 And I didn't realize it until this event happened in 2007.

Speaker 2 But I can look back and I write about this in the book, a lot of things hit up.

Speaker 2 In other words, I began to see after this doctor poisoned me the second time,

Speaker 2 the weirdest thing happened.

Speaker 2 My family, all of them can tell you. I would be sitting in my kitchen,

Speaker 2 and this is after,

Speaker 2 right after the

Speaker 2 thing in the hospital, I was seeing things that my family couldn't see. in my house and I'd tell them and they thought I was going nuts.

Speaker 2 They thought I was still on drugs, but I had completely gotten off all that.

Speaker 2 And it took a long time to get back to where I felt halfway normal. But I could see things.

Speaker 3 What things?

Speaker 2 Well, I could see this little being in the house. You walked by, and I'd tell them, and they were filming me, and they couldn't see it.

Speaker 2 So I know it opened something up on me.

Speaker 3 Who was filming?

Speaker 2 My wife and kids would film me talking about what I'd see in the house,

Speaker 2 this little being. It would be about this tall, looked like gazoo, you might say, from Fred Plintstone.

Speaker 2 He could hover in the house. And I began to wonder, am I going crazy? Am I seeing things?

Speaker 3 Did it look human?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it sure did.

Speaker 3 Did you interact with it?

Speaker 2 I did. I'd be talking to it.
I even had a name for it. It's named Johnny is what I called it.
My kids would say, they would laugh. They thought I was completely...

Speaker 2 But I'd just come out of the hospital, too, and I was heavily medicated.

Speaker 2 But I knew that opened me up to the spiritual world,

Speaker 2 to the other side. What would you

Speaker 3 interact with the being about?

Speaker 2 We'd have conversations. He was always watching over me, protecting me.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 my wife's like, who are you talking to?

Speaker 3 Do you remember any of the conversations specifically? Are there any conversations that stick out?

Speaker 2 Not in detail other than I knew it was there watching over me. It wasn't a scary thing.
It wasn't like it was there to harm anybody. It was there to

Speaker 2 get me through what had just happened. It was protecting me.

Speaker 3 What would the conversations be about?

Speaker 2 It was always positive about

Speaker 2 healing and

Speaker 2 reinforcement that I was going to be all right because I'd just come through a near death.

Speaker 2 And that eventually faded away after a few months and I stopped seeing it, but it was always there and it was very real to me.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it later showed up after the 2007 incident. This was in 04 and 05.

Speaker 2 In 07, when this thing happened, and I'll tell you something else too. This was really weird.

Speaker 2 In 05, we were forced to move because we'd sold out and lost everything, moving from a big house to a mobile home.

Speaker 2 We were having Thanksgiving dinner at my mom's. We built the new house or the mobile home.
We restored it. It was an old one I had as a rental property.

Speaker 2 I moved it on their lot next door out in the country beside mom and dad. It was Thanksgiving Day night,

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 a whole family was there from sisters to everybody, right?

Speaker 2 And I guess it was 9 o'clock at night, 9.30.

Speaker 2 A couple of the guys smoking went outside to smoke. And eventually I went outside to conversate.
And we look right over where we were going to sit the mobile.

Speaker 2 Before we even put it there, there is a football field long glowing cigar maybe 200 feet above the lot, right over top of the trees. And it was barely moving.

Speaker 2 And my kids, myself, my mother, all of us, watched it. You could walk beside it.
It was so slow, no sound.

Speaker 2 And it really didn't register with me at that time. But that was before the river event.

Speaker 3 So with the being, how would it converse back with you?

Speaker 2 Well, the first couple of times I could hear it audible speaking, but it didn't move its mouth. It's like you could hear it.

Speaker 2 Was it English? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Very deep voice, very loud. But now, today, it's more telepathic.

Speaker 2 It's images.

Speaker 2 And we've proven that, that on television, on the history channel, that my brain is communicating with this phenomenon.

Speaker 3 Could you be a little more descriptive of what the being looked like?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it looked like a four-year-old child.

Speaker 3 A four-year-old?

Speaker 2 Four-year-old. About like a three, four-year-old, a little toddler,

Speaker 2 not much more than three feet tall, glowing softly like the color of the moon with these

Speaker 2 red eyes and it had a triangle shape. underneath that was glowing, gleaming from head to toe.
It had this triangle on its chest right here.

Speaker 2 And that turned out to be a pretty big symbol for some people in the government.

Speaker 3 What is that symbol?

Speaker 2 Well, there's one right here from NASA. That's a triangle on that pen.
Wonder how I got that.

Speaker 2 They were the first ones to come wanting to know about that little being with the triangle on its chest.

Speaker 3 Interesting.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Did it wear clothing?

Speaker 2 It was gleaming so bright, it had something on, but it looked like the outer layer of it it was just glossy gleaming brilliant

Speaker 2 and there's a there's a description that Daniel gave in chapter 10 in the Bible where he describes an angelic being that his encounter and he says it it was its body was gleaming like topaz and it had torches, fire, red, glowing eyes.

Speaker 2 This is Daniel's description straight out of the Bible. And it was given to me by scholars to read.

Speaker 3 Interesting. Yeah.
Interesting.

Speaker 3 How many times,

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 3 man, I've got a lot of questions. How many interactions a day

Speaker 3 would you have with this?

Speaker 2 Well, I say today is more than ever.

Speaker 2 Today it's gotten to where

Speaker 2 Let's say at that time back then, after it happened, after the initial counter and all my kids come home,

Speaker 2 and I'm being told not to talk about it because it was scary and it was, they had my wife believing it's demonic. And for a long time,

Speaker 2 which is understandable when you're raising the church, you know, they all say this is demonic. Well, they don't know.
They have no clue. Nobody does.
I'm telling you, not even the Pope.

Speaker 2 They don't know. Everybody imagines what's out there, speculates.
But until you see it and you interact with it,

Speaker 2 you're speculating,

Speaker 2 you're questioning.

Speaker 2 But it immediately followed me home. And

Speaker 2 these orbs would appear, a ball of light, flash,

Speaker 2 and out steps these shadowy figures. And they would walk through the house and walk through walls.

Speaker 2 Look like a human, same size and all.

Speaker 3 This is before?

Speaker 2 No, this is right after the event, 2007.

Speaker 3 Let's try to just

Speaker 3 keep it before the event for right now. Okay.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 did it have hair?

Speaker 2 I didn't see any hair. It just,

Speaker 2 there's just so much gleaming there. It's hard to get the detail, the brightness of this thing standing four feet away.

Speaker 2 I could see its eyes because they were red, right? And they were glowing in this triangle shape. I actually drew it and painted it in 2009.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 they

Speaker 2 did this little glowing, glowing little entities.

Speaker 3 And these are the same type of eyes that you saw at the river. Yes.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 It's what my son described.

Speaker 2 Now, the being that I was telling you about when I come out of the hospital for a few months there, I kept seeing this little being. It didn't have red eyes.

Speaker 2 It looked like a person, a little small person, but it floated about.

Speaker 3 Okay, that's what I was referencing.

Speaker 3 So the so Johnny.

Speaker 2 Johnny, he looked like a little person.

Speaker 3 This little and he had a triangle.

Speaker 2 No, the one in the river that that scared Chris Jr. in 2007, the one that night that I saw

Speaker 2 didn't look like Johnny. Johnny looked

Speaker 2 just looked like a

Speaker 2 just

Speaker 2 glowing,

Speaker 2 so bright that the detail is hard to describe.

Speaker 3 So I'm talking about Johnny. Right.

Speaker 3 Johnny, so Johnny was not glowing.

Speaker 2 It looked like a little,

Speaker 2 a small person, but it didn't look.

Speaker 3 Could you differentiate between a regular three-year-old, four-year-old child and this?

Speaker 2 Yes, because it seemed to be grown.

Speaker 2 or an adult, but small.

Speaker 2 It spoke like an adult. It interacted with me like an adult

Speaker 2 but that didn't last long this is after all this medication the daughter put me on so what what did you think that was

Speaker 3 i thought it was a guardian angel right away you thought it was a guardian angel

Speaker 2 and the entire family said that it was demonic not then they didn't say anything they just were listening and filming. This was in 05.

Speaker 3 What were they filming?

Speaker 2 Me.

Speaker 3 They were recording. Interacting with them.

Speaker 2 Interacting, yeah. So

Speaker 3 can I have access to any of that film?

Speaker 2 I'd have to get my wife to dig it up, but yeah, she has a lot of stuff she recorded. All my kids after the event on the river.

Speaker 3 So what does that, what do those films look like? Does that look like you interacting with thin air?

Speaker 2 Well, yes, probably some of them. Yeah, I'm sure.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 I would love to get some of that footage if possible and

Speaker 3 insert it.

Speaker 2 I will see if she can do that

Speaker 3 how many

Speaker 3 Ryan sorry you're in the you're now on the Sean Ryan show

Speaker 3 have you seen these films I was there what I mean what did it look like

Speaker 2 what does it look like to see your dad interacting with thin air well I was 10 years old so I understood it the way that my mother explained it to me which was that he was you know going off the deep end so I we just thought it was funny like oh he's on medicine he's hallucinating imaginary friend and we i don't know i mean i you can't really understand what's happening when you're 10 so i just kind of laughed you know they all thought i was nuts and and rightly i had been over medicated and

Speaker 2 still but that medication opened me up to something that two years later came out of the sky and took me

Speaker 3 we'll get there yeah

Speaker 3 What about this

Speaker 2 being

Speaker 3 made you think that it was a guardian angel and that it had your best interest?

Speaker 2 The way it was talking to me, it was there. It would tell me.
It was there to protect me. It was watching over me and that I was going to be fine.

Speaker 2 You know, I had just come through a hard time in life. And I'm still sick.
I'm still with Crohn's. I'm still

Speaker 2 really bad shape. And

Speaker 2 then got shot with, basically like shot with a gun with this medication. And I'm still sick.
And now I've got this to deal with.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 yeah.

Speaker 3 Did you ever try to make contact, like physically touch?

Speaker 2 I never did.

Speaker 2 Because it would be brief. It would appear and it won't be there long.
It would be there, you know, just little bits, a few seconds or long enough to maybe

Speaker 2 a minute, and then it was gone. It would just vanish in in front of me.
And they all thought,

Speaker 2 and rightly so, that I had lost my mind and

Speaker 2 this just didn't happen. And this exacerbated the 2007, two years later, when I come home talking about it, my wife's like, he's still lost it.

Speaker 2 He's gone crazy. And the whole community said, he's crazy.
And then...

Speaker 2 When everybody started experiencing it with me and the family, now it's demonic. It's really happening to this guy, but he's bringing the devil into his house.
This is where it ended up.

Speaker 3 When did it disappear for good before the incident?

Speaker 2 Within six months, maybe.

Speaker 2 Late 2005, I'd say, is when it ended. I didn't see it anymore.
And then a year later, remember, I'm on the river, and that's when it come out of the sky.

Speaker 2 And that's when it healed me and it said, we're not here to hurt you, we're here to help you.

Speaker 3 Did you respond to that?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 What did you say?

Speaker 2 Well, I didn't really speak other than I surrender.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry. I don't mean you any harm.
And it's telling me this in my head.

Speaker 2 And I felt this greatest joy and this sense of relief. that I understood now

Speaker 2 no more fear.

Speaker 2 And that's why immediately when I reported it, I knew it was these same angelic beings, but it didn't look like this little being I'd seen two years prior.

Speaker 2 But I related it all in the same thing. You know, there's a lot of different things that can appear around you.
It can appear any way it wants to.

Speaker 3 So after the incident, when you described this to your family,

Speaker 3 Did they put two and two together that this has happened, not this exact thing, but he's

Speaker 3 that you had been in contact with some type of being before?

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, they thought I was, first off, they didn't want to believe me.

Speaker 3 And now you have another family member, your son,

Speaker 2 who also experienced it. Yeah, that's corroborating it.
And they still tried to think this. can't be true.
It just can't be true. And that's what was making me so emotional about Chris Jr.

Speaker 2 He struggled so hard and he comes home telling what he saw and nobody wanted to believe him. They're just like, he's crazy like his dad, right?

Speaker 2 Here I run an $18 million, $20 million a year of company

Speaker 2 and I went through a terrible time with sickness and a doctor and I come out the other side and now I'm crazy, right? This guy's crazy. And so the whole community basically

Speaker 2 started mocking my family. And this is after the 07 incident.

Speaker 2 And it turned into five years of what I call in the book, five years of darkness from 27 to 2012. And when that 2012 came, everything changed.

Speaker 3 Who did you contact about this incident with? afterwards?

Speaker 2 Well, I didn't for the first 10 months because of me when I came home and I was told this immediately, my wife trying to keep peace in the family and her little whole world right now.

Speaker 2 Chris has come home telling this big tale and got junior telling it with him and

Speaker 2 nobody wanted to believe it. My dad made fun.
He must be on drugs. Still on drugs, you know, and I was only on medication and the doctor gave me.

Speaker 2 Won't drink an alcohol, none of that. And here

Speaker 2 everybody started that.

Speaker 2 And then within a few months or weeks, my wife would take the kids out to see her mom or go to church. I wouldn't go into church anymore.

Speaker 2 I'm at home in my study in complete depression because nobody believed me what happened. And now nobody's believing my son pushed us away from the church.

Speaker 2 But she would be in town coming home and kids running in the door. Oh my God, Dad, you won't believe what we saw on the way home.
There was a big triangle thing in front of the car flying right down

Speaker 2 in front of us, you know, following us home. So now my kids are coming home and I just sat back and I'd smile.
Thank you. Thank you, Lord, because I was praying every day.

Speaker 2 Lord, let my family, let my children experience what I did so at least they would believe me.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I'll never forget, and I'll tell you in a minute, what my wife said when the first investigator came.

Speaker 3 Who did you call?

Speaker 2 In October,

Speaker 2 this was in January when it happened, 10 months later, October, I

Speaker 2 saw on the television a show called

Speaker 2 UFO Files.

Speaker 2 And there was this...

Speaker 2 Stanton Freeman, a physicist on there, and he's talking about UFOs. I'd never seen any of those shows.

Speaker 2 And it crossed, report your your sighting to MUFON. So I quickly got their email address and I wrote them.

Speaker 3 What does MUFON stand for?

Speaker 2 It's the mutual UFO network. It's where it's a data, it's an investigation

Speaker 2 thing that people report sightings to. And they're a pretty big outfit, international, right? So that's the go-to.
If you have a sighting, you go to MUFON.

Speaker 2 I had never heard of it until I saw it on TV. So I made the report and I was so afraid to send it that I didn't send it for two weeks because I just knew if I did, I'd lose my family.

Speaker 2 I was told never to talk about it again. Well, I didn't know what happened to me for two, for four hours.
If I tried to think about it,

Speaker 2 I would pass out.

Speaker 2 My family would see it. If you started questioning me and I tried to think, I'd pass out.

Speaker 2 And so.

Speaker 2 I sent it two weeks later. It was the 13th of October.

Speaker 2 And immediately they wrote wrote me back, oh, we want to talk to you. Well, I got scared.
I said, nah, this is too real now. I don't want to lose my family.

Speaker 2 So I told them, no, I just wanted to report it, but I don't want to interview.

Speaker 2 January comes along, they write me again, we're going to close the case, but we really want to talk to you. And by then, it's been a year now, I'm I am

Speaker 2 I can't I can't function. My head had some kind of block and I couldn't think at all.

Speaker 2 And so I said, okay.

Speaker 2 And in February, they sent a guy from, a local investigator from Raleigh, North Carolina. And he came in there and that's when my wife said, you ever heard of,

Speaker 2 what do you know about shadow being?

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 now we'd never talked about the UFO thing. But she'd been seeing these in the house and gotten shoved a couple of times just to get her attention.
I was praying every day, Lord, let her see it.

Speaker 2 And she looked at me and said, don't ever pray for me like that again.

Speaker 2 But it was in the house. It was interacting with the kids, orbs, over the house, outside.
But I could never share it with anyone except my immediate family.

Speaker 3 So at this point, the whole entire family is

Speaker 2 witnessing this. My three, four children.
A daughter, she was 10 years old then. Ryan was 13.

Speaker 2 Jeremy, he was 15, Christian was 17, and Emily, she's the only girl, she's the baby. And now they're being told by the church, your dad is dealing with demons.
Well,

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 they didn't want to believe it because they were seeing it with me. So it was a horrible place to be when the whole community came down on us there.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it continued for five years but what happened was

Speaker 2 the community didn't let up the church didn't let up and I don't mean just my wife's side but my all the churches around even the original ones the people were talking and the boys that were with me their children were catching a fit

Speaker 2 let me back up in 2007 I reported it. 2008, the investigator comm, and immediately they sold me on on doing a show on Discovery Channel.
You've got to do it. We'll vindicate you.
You do this show.

Speaker 2 Everybody will believe you. So I agreed to it.
I had to beg Junior to participate. Well, they did their show, and immediately they set me up.

Speaker 2 They set me up to, they would come into my house to do an interview and call me. Can you come to the hotel and sign all the paperwork?

Speaker 2 Then we're going to go from there. Well, when I got in that hotel, they had a guy from the FBI there with a lie detector thing set up and cameras pointing at it completely.

Speaker 2 I did 34 questions for two hours they just over and over and over and then on the show they called me. They said he was lying about seeing an entity.

Speaker 2 Now things got really bad, the whole community and now the school, my children's school.

Speaker 2 They're being made fun of. Their dad's crazy.
They're laughing at my kids. It nearly ruined my boys.
They were all, you know, thinking girls dating.

Speaker 2 Now everybody's laughing at them in the hallways, calling them out in the school class and making them tell the stories. And so five years goes by of that, of pure nightmare.

Speaker 2 But NASA shows up, a friend from NASA, Dr. Hal Pogenmeier.

Speaker 3 A friend?

Speaker 2 Well, he's a friend. He's like a, he wasn't a friend then.
No, I didn't know him. In fact, my son Ryan calls me, Dad, there's somebody here from NASA.
He wants to talk to you.

Speaker 2 I said, well, tell him to stick around. I'll be home in about an hour.

Speaker 2 Six foot five,

Speaker 2 huge man. We were afraid of the government so bad because MUFON and the UFO World said the men in black was on TV then.
They'll kill you. The government will kill you.
Don't ever talk to

Speaker 2 different ones

Speaker 2 and names they would use. And so now we're terrified the government's knocking on our door.
He comes in and

Speaker 2 he became a father figure to my children. And he died in 2019.
He'd been to my daughter's and my children's birthdays.

Speaker 2 He would come from Cape Canaveral all the way down to the piano recitals, their graduations, their birthdays.

Speaker 2 And we become best friends. And they studied me.
And

Speaker 2 about 2012 13 another guy comes for me what was the initial guy's name dr hal povenmeyer

Speaker 2 he um

Speaker 2 he was at nasa 59 years when he died what were they studying

Speaker 2 first off he wanted to know about that little glowing being with the triangle on his chest and he first when he first came His mission, he told us, my mission was to debunk you.

Speaker 2 So he came and initially met us, then he left on his own, and we didn't know where. He went back home, but he didn't.

Speaker 2 He was searching records from the Sheriff's Department to the FAA to knocking on every door in that community out there, asking, did you see something?

Speaker 2 And he found out that eight other people that night all witnessed it fly over their houses and stuff. One guy was 70 years old, sitting on his front porch, and it went 20 feet over his house.

Speaker 2 And so Howell knew then that this was real. And

Speaker 2 he became

Speaker 2 like a father figure. He would come and entertain my kids more than he would me because they were, he's just that kind of guy.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 all throughout the five years after an event happened, Howell was the one there.

Speaker 2 There were other military people calling from the Air Force, sending letters, wanting me to interview, want me to draw pictures and all this stuff. And I would just stay away from it.

Speaker 2 I was still scared of how. I didn't know who this guy was yet.
It was just five years into it. But we loved, my kids loved him, but I'm still, you know, who he is.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 in 2012, At Easter of 2012. This is when everything changed.
This is really what got the U.S. government knocking on my door.
This is why I'm here today.

Speaker 2 2012, Saturday night, Easter. Sunday morning's Easter, right?

Speaker 2 At 3 o'clock in the morning, so it's actually Easter Sunday morning, 3 o'clock in the morning, I'm asleep in the bed, dead asleep.

Speaker 2 That night before, I had had all I could stand to see my kids coming home crying and the whole community making fun of the family and my dad. And now they've been experiencing this stuff.

Speaker 2 They know it's happening. But they couldn't contest adults, right? They wouldn't talk back.
They knew better. But it was, it had really, my little girl coming home crying from people picking on her.

Speaker 2 So I walked outside that night. And I remember I had this desire to tell it to everybody.
I had to tell it. It was like the Richard Dreyfus close encounter thing.

Speaker 2 So I walked outside that night at 9.30 and I looked up to the sky and I said, thank you for ruining my life,

Speaker 2 my children.

Speaker 2 I said, thank you for healing me and proving to my family that you're real, but this

Speaker 2 life is worse off now for my whole family.

Speaker 2 I'm better physically, but now my family is in shambles. all cause of me.

Speaker 2 And I shouted it to the heavens.

Speaker 2 And I see these things. They're coming.
You know, these orbs are always around. And I knew it heard me.
I knew it was, so I went to bed.

Speaker 2 Three o'clock in the morning, I hear the same voice, the same little being that spoke to me and said, I'm here to help you, not hurt you. I heard that same voice.

Speaker 2 And it sounded like a man, really deep.

Speaker 2 And it said, arise. That's all I heard, that quick word, arise.
And it was so deep. It was like thunder in my room.

Speaker 2 I jumped up from laying in the bed, dead asleep, to sitting up in my bed and it's dark. I can't see.
And there was three o'clock on my back then we had a clock, alarm clock, and they said 3 a.m.

Speaker 2 Next thing I know I see movement in the room. Whatever they did to me, they caused me to get dressed and follow out the door.
Now I'm outside.

Speaker 2 and I'm walking towards my dog kennel at three o'clock in the morning, fully dressed, clothes from being asleep.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 suddenly this figure hands me something. As far out as it sounds, now I'm telling you, it sounds crazy.
And it took me two weeks to tell it because

Speaker 2 they all live with me crazy. And I stopped talking about it.
Now, five years later, this happens.

Speaker 2 And what happened was it handed me this object. And it felt like a living creature, like a squirrel maybe, or

Speaker 2 something that size, but I couldn't see or feel legs or a head. It felt just like a tube, but furry, kind of prickly.

Speaker 2 And said, and handed it to me and said, you must keep this.

Speaker 2 Immediately I dropped it because I know what it was, and it was prickly.

Speaker 2 And his

Speaker 2 words came again, no, you must pick this up. You must keep this.
So I reached down to pick it up. When I did,

Speaker 2 this

Speaker 2 being that was standing there is now now gone. And I'm at the dog kennel, so I'm juggling it in my hand.
I know I need to see what this thing is.

Speaker 2 It's dark, so I opened the kennel and put it in and closed the door. And the very second I did that, this blast of air come directed.
It wasn't in the woods and around us.

Speaker 2 It was right straight in front of me. A blast of air hits me and blew me over.
The wind.

Speaker 2 Later on, I understood the Holy Spirit. The word word spirit means the wind.

Speaker 2 The Holy Spirit means the breath of God.

Speaker 2 So I had to put this in there. But it was the wind.
A physical force blew me over. And as I hit backwards on the ground, I saw what appeared to be a translucent cow, a bull, run over me.

Speaker 2 And I could see stars inside of it, up through it.

Speaker 3 That's what they had handed you?

Speaker 2 Well, what they handed me, I put in the kennel.

Speaker 2 When I locked the door, closed the door, now a blast of air next to the woods hits me.

Speaker 2 And out of that wind, when the wind hit me and blew me over, with that wind was a translucent cow or bull, a big one

Speaker 2 went over me and it didn't hurt me, but I could see it clearly. I could see the stars inside.

Speaker 2 This is really strange because I just...

Speaker 3 It's definitely strange.

Speaker 2 I'll get back to this in a minute, right?

Speaker 2 Of something I just saw,

Speaker 2 discovered with a guy that studies Egypt, Dr. Robert Grant.

Speaker 2 He discovered that bull inside the king's chamber. There's never been an inscription in that pyramid nowhere.
So he goes in with LIDAR, and there's that bull, celestial bull, with stars inside of it.

Speaker 2 He and I just...

Speaker 2 worked this thing out.

Speaker 2 He'd seen it. He shared it with me.
And when I told him what happened to me, he got some other clues out of that.

Speaker 2 But it was exactly what I saw. But now listen, when the bull went over, I land on my back and I'm getting up the run.
So I roll over. Now I'm looking this way.
And behind me, there's no cow anymore.

Speaker 2 There's a woman there.

Speaker 2 She's about three feet off the ground. She's glowing just color of the moon.
There's a circle of light on the ground. And she looks at me and she says, you know why I'm here.

Speaker 2 And I knew I was crushed, basically, because I'd had this overwhelming desire to tell the world what I'd seen. And then that night I cursed at the heavens and said, I'm never doing that.

Speaker 2 I'll never speak again. And now she's like, you know why I'm here.
This is your burden you must bear. She said that.

Speaker 2 She said, if you'll tell this story, I'll always be with you. I'll allow you to share our presence with others and film us.

Speaker 2 So help me. I never had a picture of anything for the previous five years.
Only inside the house when people see this or out in my children.

Speaker 2 Now everybody's coming to the house and it appears overhead. It appears around us and it's greater today than it was then.

Speaker 2 And magic started happening. And when that word got out, then comes the government.

Speaker 3 They want to know about this lady let's let's pause right there I have questions okay so the initial what was

Speaker 2 what what was it that you were handed I've I've heard I've been asked that a million times I don't know it was like a living creature it was living it was moving around it was but it had no head or legs it felt like if you had a squirrel in your hand or a hedgehog that prickly

Speaker 2 it felt like it was living but it had no head or tail And I asked the lady

Speaker 2 what this was, and she told me

Speaker 2 it was symbolic of humanity. It had lost its direction.

Speaker 2 Had no head or no tail. It completely lost its direction.

Speaker 2 And it vanished when I was.

Speaker 3 You brought out the money with that.

Speaker 2 Exactly. And she told me a lot of stuff that I never revealed.
And to this day, I haven't revealed a whole lot of it because I don't want to sound like a prophet or any of that. I just don't.

Speaker 2 My goal is to share this story with everyone and share the phenomenon, which I have been able to do.

Speaker 3 What did the figure look like that handed you the object?

Speaker 2 It was a shadowy being, like a shadow being. So when you see these, you see this shadow of a human figure.
But you can't really see the details. It's like a shadow.
It's like a ghost, you might say.

Speaker 2 And I have pictures of, I have pictures of these little beings, and they look like ghosts.

Speaker 2 I have a video of one of these beings coming out of an orb.

Speaker 3 Flash.

Speaker 3 Can I see that video?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'll give you one. It's six foot tall, seven foot tall.
And when it did that night, a young lady with me was healed from cancer.

Speaker 2 This happened in 2015.

Speaker 3 What did the bull represent, do you think?

Speaker 2 I had no clue.

Speaker 3 You worked with Robert Grant?

Speaker 2 Robert Grant is who I was with last at Contact in the Desert a couple months back. And Robert was showing the oculus to me about what he had discovered in the pyramid.

Speaker 2 So he put these goggles on and he does his slidar.

Speaker 2 And their biggest daylight.

Speaker 2 is a bull on the side of the wall in the king's chamber. You only can see it with this technology has, and the stars are inside.
And above it is a helix, a DNA.

Speaker 2 And then on the sarcophagus in the king's chamber is the alpha and omega symbol.

Speaker 3 What do you think that represents?

Speaker 2 Well, alpha omega is God, the beginning and the end. The bull

Speaker 2 is

Speaker 2 the celestial bull.

Speaker 2 To me, the lady that came to me is the Holy Spirit,

Speaker 2 the breath of God, the wind, the Virgin Mary,

Speaker 2 Hathor, Demeta, Diana, Pravati, in every culture on every continent. They all have a mother figure, all of them, including the Egyptians.
They believe in the Trinity.

Speaker 2 You read the Egyptian stuff, it was in the beginning it was Pittah

Speaker 2 was the father, Met was the mother, and then they had a change to Ra

Speaker 2 and then Hathor and then Horus, which is the divine trinity. They have a triad.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I think that the lady, the women,

Speaker 2 the feminine

Speaker 2 was taken out of the the equation by a bunch of men in 2,000 years ago and oppressed all the women, kicked them out and said, you can't be in the church. Only it's only it's a boys' club, right?

Speaker 2 And so from that point forward, the women have been oppressed. They've made to wear things over their face and head and

Speaker 2 even up in the 60s and 70s. Me growing up, there was a great oppression on the women.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 I just, that's my belief. And, you know, it doesn't matter in Christianity or in any religion.
None of of us really know. So

Speaker 3 and so

Speaker 3 how did the how did the government get involved?

Speaker 3 And what is it, let me rephrase that.

Speaker 3 What is the, what is it that caught the government's attention?

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So now

Speaker 2 this happens at Easter of 2012.

Speaker 3 Let me ask another question. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 Do you think there's any significance to this happening on Easter?

Speaker 2 100%.

Speaker 3 And what is that?

Speaker 2 Well, you tell me what Easter means.

Speaker 3 The resurrection. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Every year. Every year at Easter.

Speaker 2 Either she comes back or

Speaker 2 something miraculous happens

Speaker 2 every year at Easter.

Speaker 3 Every year since 2012.

Speaker 2 Every year since then. Every year, including this year.
And my son Ryan and his wife. And my grandson Teddy.

Speaker 2 Of course my wife was a little bit scared so she turned her head and ran in the house, but we all got to experience it this year at Easter. And exactly when I told them, at 8.30 it's going to appear.

Speaker 2 And we ran to the restaurant to eat and I'm fussing, we've got to be home. We've got to be home by 8.30.

Speaker 2 And when we drove up in the yard, it was 8.30. When I opened the door, it appeared behind the car.

Speaker 2 Here it calmed, this big glowing bluish-white ball of light through the forest going in and out of the trees. It was approaching us.
And my wife freaked out and ran in the house.

Speaker 2 But it's always something like that, miraculous on Easter.

Speaker 2 And it just feeds more into my understanding of the phenomenon, the whole thing.

Speaker 2 She always comes in threes.

Speaker 2 Not always, but it's overwhelming.

Speaker 2 Three is very meaningful in this three.

Speaker 2 And I thumbed it over and over three orbs you know together they'll line up like a triangle and they'll fly through the sky in a triangle I said well if I didn't I'll give you a video of that

Speaker 2 and I have multiple videos of that it's always showing that symbol of three

Speaker 3 now let's what is it that caught the government's attention

Speaker 2 so one of the things it did is in October of 2012 no 2013

Speaker 2 I get a call from a professor in Wilmington about,

Speaker 2 she's a

Speaker 2 religious scholar, very famous. She's written several books and you probably know her if I said her name, Dr.
Diana Pasalka.

Speaker 2 She lived an hour and a half from me and she

Speaker 2 was given 2,000 reports by MUFON

Speaker 2 to investigate why 2,000 2,000 people reported angels, angelic beings that year. They were seeing these.
Now you only ever hear about the bad stuff.

Speaker 2 You only ever hear about somebody being on a table with multiple instruments and all this stuff, you know, abduction, the bad. But overwhelmingly, 95% of all of it, people come away with angelic,

Speaker 2 their experiences is heavenly.

Speaker 2 That's one of the things that you will never hear about.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 October, I walk outside. I was a smoker then.
I was watching TV with my wife. I paused the TV at 9.30.
I said, I'm going to go out and smoke. So I walked out on the back patio.
She

Speaker 2 out in the back of our property, about 100 yards back in the dark, all of a sudden we see... barks come from the ground and go up in the air.

Speaker 2 And she said, what's up with that tree? I said, I don't know, but I see it. And suddenly it rained for two days.
Ground was wet.

Speaker 2 This tree erupts into flames and goes shooting fire 13, 14 feet up in the air, burnt hole inside. It burnt from the inside out.

Speaker 2 Well, that got the attention of government.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, Howell was there. And now this other player from NASA wants to come see this tree.
And he

Speaker 2 code names the dragon.

Speaker 2 He runs all the launches

Speaker 2 for NASA. He is the head guy.
He's National Reconnaissance Office. So that got me involved with the NR.

Speaker 2 Next thing I'm in Cape Canaveral sitting with these guys, half a dozen of them.

Speaker 2 And that expands into a whole lot more.

Speaker 2 You know, now I'm dealing with two people from NASA.

Speaker 2 And this gets into medical study, stem cell research.

Speaker 2 And that happened a year later.

Speaker 2 And I'll tell you what got me there. Here's really what got the attention of the government.
They heard about the tree. They all wanted to come see it, and they started.

Speaker 2 But I get a phone call in early 2013,

Speaker 2 Easter, Easter of 2013. I write about the whole experience in my book.

Speaker 2 I have an experience with a lady.

Speaker 2 Two weeks later, this journalist comes from Canada, calls me, I want to come see that burning tree. He had heard about it.

Speaker 2 He's heading to Florida, so he stops by on the way. I'll live right along 95.

Speaker 2 Stays the night,

Speaker 2 goes Florida, and he comes back, comes again, wants to see more of the tree and get more story.

Speaker 2 So my kids are all home. It's five o'clock in the afternoon.
He drives up in the driveway.

Speaker 2 He pulls up, gets out with his camera. No clothes, no bags.
He just gets out. He wants to go see this tree and film it before dark.
He's out there at the tree. I'm with him.

Speaker 2 There's a Labrador, my dog who's

Speaker 2 Nellie, full-grown female laugh, laying there beside us. Everywhere I'd walk, she'd walk.
We get back to the house. We stop just short of the door.

Speaker 2 And Nellie stops and she's laying there and Grant and I are talking, you know, just glad to see one another. And I'm like, you want to stay tonight? I get the kids to get your bags.

Speaker 2 And they were all out there. It was six or eight more people outside.
He said, yeah, that'd be, I'd love that. So

Speaker 2 he's between me and the back door. The house is open.
The back door is open. The windows, it was in May.
It was May the 11th or May the 5th. It's only two weeks after Easter.

Speaker 2 Nellie stands up and starts toward the door. when Grant turns.
And when she walks by him, I see blood come out of her neck and it shot way out like a stream of blood.

Speaker 2 And it's like freaked out, and Grant saw it. She sprayed blood all over his pants when she went by.
And she ran in the back door, bleeding, bleeding all over the floor.

Speaker 2 And I ran and tackled her and took her outside and laid her on the concrete.

Speaker 2 And I was going through my head, oh my God, and Grant's filming this from above. And all my kids are gathered around.
And she's got a hole inside of her neck, crossed her juggular vein that long.

Speaker 2 And I could stick my finger in it that deep, and blood just shooting out when her heartbeat. And I had my hand on it, blood coming up through my fingers there.

Speaker 2 And I knew, I knew she was going to die. They were 30 minutes from my vet, out in the country.
No amp, couldn't call an ambulance. I went through all this in my head.
I thought she's going to die.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 everybody's freaked out. And I just looked up to the heavens.
I said, Lord, help her.

Speaker 2 She went limp.

Speaker 2 And so I picked my hand up, and that hole was gone. Everybody saw it disappeared perfectly, like nothing had happened.
She stood up, waggled her tail, and walked away. He filmed it all.

Speaker 2 And it didn't take long. That word got out.
Next thing, I get a call from somebody connected to CIA.

Speaker 2 And he says,

Speaker 2 What are you doing this week? What are you doing tomorrow? I said, this is 2014. I said, July 4th, it's Friday.
The day's the 2nd. My kids are coming home from college.

Speaker 2 We're going to have a party, you know, for the family. He said, well, I need you in D.C.

Speaker 2 I said, D.C.? He said, yeah, there's a young boy up there that's really sick.

Speaker 2 And they've lost, they've tried everything they can to help him. And

Speaker 2 he's got to make a wish.

Speaker 2 In fact, Barack Obama gave him his make-a-wish. And we have all the photos of him shaking Barack Obama's hand.

Speaker 2 Michael Murrell, deputy director of CIA, put him in his book, wrote about him. So you can imagine this young boy is in the midst of all these power brokers in Washington.

Speaker 2 And his mom's a doctor. His grandpa's a cardiologist in New York.
And they had spelled it as

Speaker 2 they were out of options.

Speaker 2 And so I agreed to go. He flew me up there, picked me up, took me to Arlington to where they had the 4th of July parades and all this flags and stuff.
And I had no clue who I was meeting.

Speaker 2 I had no idea what I was doing. I had seen a dog miraculously get healed and I didn't know what happened and how that happened.

Speaker 2 But these people thought at least we try something UFO, I guess, that healed a dog to help this child.

Speaker 2 So I was terrified. I didn't know what to say.
I didn't know what to do. I was praying silently while I'm sitting here in front of this little boy.

Speaker 2 He's got a feeding tube, and they're telling us he's not going to live another year.

Speaker 2 And I'm with his mom and dad and him.

Speaker 2 And I prayed all night, Lord, help me. What do I do? So I stayed at one o'clock that morning.
And this child had mitochondrial DNA disease, meaning he could never eat.

Speaker 2 If he ate food, he threw it up profusely. He couldn't make nutrients from the food, so he was dying.
And once they get to the feeding tube, it's over. Usually they're dead right away.

Speaker 2 And I stayed to one o'clock in the morning, and this

Speaker 2 It wasn't an audible voice. It was like this message came, this telepathic knowing.
And I said, it said, just hug him.

Speaker 2 So when I went to leave I reached out and hugged him at one o'clock his mom asked me to stay the night and I said no I've got a hotel down and the guy that brought me there he's reading a book sitting in the back room right he's he stayed with me

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 one o'clock in the morning his mom calls me and says he's he's eating he's eat his second plate

Speaker 2 and so

Speaker 2 this was the next morning that night at one o'clock I left at 1.30, his mom called me and said he's eating two plates of food.

Speaker 3 30 minutes later. Yeah.

Speaker 3 What's this kid's name?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 to be respectful of the family, I'd rather tell you that off-camera, right?

Speaker 2 But his personal name is Brandon.

Speaker 3 Are you still in touch with him? Yeah.

Speaker 2 He was at my house. I just spent...

Speaker 2 Last Memorial Day,

Speaker 2 Jim from the CIA, the deputy director, called me. Brandon now 21 or two years old, and he's going off to

Speaker 2 exchange school overseas. And he's never been away from home, right?

Speaker 2 And they wanted me to be with him before he left. They told me, and we know you're good for him, to be around him.
But let me tell you another one. Now he's 13.

Speaker 2 When he turns 13, he's having a bar mitzvah.

Speaker 2 First time I've ever been

Speaker 2 in a Jewish celebration, right? And it was the most most amazing thing. This child has given a speech up in this big church in New York City on 48th Madison.

Speaker 2 We're in a basement, and everybody that's anybody, from the deputy director to the director of operations, to the CIA, and all in between,

Speaker 2 we're there. A whole lot of important, 200 people at least.
My son Ryan,

Speaker 2 they're out dancing on the floor, and he's, you know, and I'm thinking back, all these people at home that's given me such a hard time.

Speaker 2 If I could only tell them what I'm experiencing right now with my family, this is just a moment for me.

Speaker 2 Suddenly, panic happened. The music quit, and the crowd came off the dance floor.
And I'm still sitting at my table with one other person. Everybody's gone out dancing.

Speaker 2 Now, my wife is sitting at the table behind me. She had gotten up, and now she's with Debbie, Jim's wife.
You know,

Speaker 2 very Very powerful people.

Speaker 2 The crowd got around me so much they're standing over me. And I feel a person grab me on the shoulders and pulled me through the crowd and said, you got to help him.
You got to help him.

Speaker 2 Well, at their table, this elderly man had passed out, bored,

Speaker 2 and was totally pale white. I mean, he was ghost white.
All these people trying to revive him, trying to wake him up, couldn't do anything.

Speaker 2 She drugged me through the crowd to him and said, You got to save him. I put a hand on each shoulder, and when I did, he went,

Speaker 2 and he stood up, set up,

Speaker 2 and the whole room saw it.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 you can imagine

Speaker 2 what that did. And that was way back in 2014.

Speaker 2 And it has only gotten more involved with government from there, from its senior service members.

Speaker 3 Who was that man?

Speaker 2 Who was

Speaker 3 the man that you revived?

Speaker 2 I knew who he was.

Speaker 2 He was the father-in-law of one of the people that,

Speaker 2 the guy that actually took me to D.C. the first time to help that little boy.
We were all invited to the party, right, to his apartment. And it was his father-in-law that,

Speaker 2 whatever happened to him, he was totally unconscious unconscious there.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 that set me on a path

Speaker 2 that I had no clue. I'd be going down.
People, you know, suddenly I've got hundreds saying I'm sick. Can you help me?

Speaker 2 And that's been the hardest thing for me to try to

Speaker 2 to help people and

Speaker 2 Because I never intended it to be that way and I don't know that I can do anything. In fact, I don't do anything.

Speaker 2 It's something greater than I. And

Speaker 2 I think when I think of

Speaker 2 the divine world, it just comes.

Speaker 2 But, you know, there's a whole lot in my book about different ones that have experienced this, from cancers gone

Speaker 2 to

Speaker 2 This is a long list of people that have had blessings from this.

Speaker 3 Could you introduce me to one that would be willing to be on the show?

Speaker 2 I will try.

Speaker 3 How many people have you saved?

Speaker 2 Well, I don't know that I've saved anybody. I don't like to think like that.

Speaker 3 How many people have you been a part of this?

Speaker 2 Dozens.

Speaker 2 Dozens of people. Every day.

Speaker 2 It's every day I can show you. Now

Speaker 2 I just pray for them. Or I just, you If you know somebody that's sick, they might send me a photo now.

Speaker 2 And I just take the photo out and I hold it up to the heavens and I ask

Speaker 2 the angels, God.

Speaker 2 I never pray to angels. I pray to God.
And I ask for this help for this person. And I get these letters back.

Speaker 2 Doctor don't know. And it goes for dogs.
I had two last month, dogs.

Speaker 2 One was 16 years old and total kidney failure. And the doctors are like, we don't know what happened.

Speaker 2 They're putting it in their journals trying to figure out what happened. She's back completely functional kidneys and normal.

Speaker 3 Are there people out there talking about this?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I've been private though, Sean. I haven't shared this.
In fact, I hate sharing this publicly because it's going to cause a whole lot more people to come, but it's still part of the story that

Speaker 2 tells the phenomenon with me, the experience with it. This is why I know it's from the divine world.
It's not something with teeth and a ray gun coming here to get us. It's connected to our thoughts.

Speaker 2 It'll appear a lot when I ask it and in front of me and you and others, not every time, but

Speaker 2 pretty much all the time. Sometimes 50, 70 orbs will appear.

Speaker 2 Sometimes it's a little fire that'll appear right beside me like a candle. I've seen it.
I'll look over and oh my God, it's right there. And then it'll shoot off over my head.

Speaker 2 And a lot of people have seen this. Rock stars,

Speaker 2 very big rock stars, without saying their names, have been to my house

Speaker 2 and have witnessed this up close and personal.

Speaker 2 Senior service members of the DIA,

Speaker 2 SES-19, been in my house with their families and have experienced it,

Speaker 2 you know, a lot. It's a lot of people that

Speaker 2 have witnessed it and seen it still to this day.

Speaker 3 How did the government get more involved?

Speaker 2 Well, they wanted to study it, right? They wanted to see this for themselves.

Speaker 2 Because it's the most elusive thing in the world to walk out and look up at the heavens and ask something to come. And all of a sudden, here are these lights pop on and they come flying by you.

Speaker 2 So there's a lot of them wanting to see that and study it.

Speaker 3 And you allow them to do that.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I allow anybody that is.

Speaker 2 I couldn't allow just anybody because I'd be overrun with people.

Speaker 2 But the.

Speaker 2 At my personal house, I've had the heads of the

Speaker 2 people from NASA, people from the DIA, the DOD, the CIA,

Speaker 2 and I had three from Washington there last week, three guys, diplomats, that have experienced it with me. I was in Washington for 15 days last month, and I filmed orbs in the daytime

Speaker 2 and at night.

Speaker 2 with a lot of important people, really important, you know, in government and stuff. NSA.

Speaker 3 Can you name any of these people by name?

Speaker 2 I don't have permission, but,

Speaker 2 you know, Jim Simivan, everybody would research him. He's in my book.
John Alexander, John was with me, 2015.

Speaker 2 In fact, the first chapter of my book, How I Met John, was

Speaker 2 about the Pope. You know, I'm out by the burning tree and this lady from Wake Forest University, a scientist, was doing this this investigation of this tree.
And she has a

Speaker 2 spirit box, she called it. I'd never heard of such a thing.
It makes this noise and

Speaker 2 supposedly spirits come through it and talk.

Speaker 2 Well, she hands it to me. I'm leaning against the tree.

Speaker 2 And my wife and my niece and her and her assistant were there looking at me from about 10 feet away.

Speaker 2 And suddenly this voice comes through that box and said, Chris, the Pope's in danger. You must help.

Speaker 2 And it kept saying that, and it kept saying that. And we recorded all this.
We recorded 350 audio clips, 350,

Speaker 2 and multiple voices come in this thing. And it was saying my name, call me by name.

Speaker 2 And so I sent that message to

Speaker 2 the very guy that was involved with the child. from the beginning.
It was my contact, right? And

Speaker 2 he's like, oh my, you need to be here tomorrow next day and so in a couple days I was at his house and when I walked in the door there was John Alexander that's when I met him and immediately we took a tour of of

Speaker 2 Philadelphia the the Congress hall

Speaker 2 John got me into remote viewing I started reliving this thing and

Speaker 2 I began to give details about this,

Speaker 2 a couple of terrorists that wanted to explode a bomb on Congress Hall when the Pope was there.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 they got the Secret Service involved and they intercepted

Speaker 2 emails and calls and found this kid and arrested him. Sure did.
And they shut the whole Ben Franklin Bridge down where people would come across. But that was

Speaker 2 That's just another notch. And that was the first chapter of my book about the Pope.
And I've been investigated by them

Speaker 2 by the Vatican.

Speaker 3 You've been investigated by the Vatican?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 How did that go?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 I was very sick at that time, 2017, with Crohn's, I'm not Crohn's, but rheumatoid. It

Speaker 2 came on me.

Speaker 2 And I was on all this chemotherapy and these biologics. And so

Speaker 2 my professor friend works with the Vatican

Speaker 2 got

Speaker 2 permission to go in the Vatican archives. Well, my friend from NASA that I was working with from the NRO wanted to be a part.
So he was allowed to go with her.

Speaker 2 Three of them went to the archives. And when they

Speaker 2 I was there, they were texting me and sending me pictures of angels coming out of orbs that are painted on the wall in the Vatican and a message from the Pope that he said, we know that they're angels and that they don't mean you no harm.

Speaker 2 But if you get too close to them, don't let them get too close because their energy can

Speaker 2 cause damage to your body. In fact, we know that St.
Francis of Assisi had an orb get too close to him and zapped him and he died two years later from his

Speaker 2 wounds. And she said, we know for sure in today's lenses it was rheumatoid arthritis, the same thing you got.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 so there's a lot of, I've got all the photos and stuff of that. You can see they had a ceremony in my honor.
They put my picture in the Pope's picture at the entrance of the Vatican archives.

Speaker 2 They placed my picture between the books of Galileo and Copernicus in the archives to be there forever.

Speaker 2 So there's a whole lot that's going on from every angle throughout those. Very scary.

Speaker 3 Man, this is fascinating stuff.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 so now you know.

Speaker 3 Why do you think

Speaker 3 you are the one?

Speaker 2 I've been asked that a million times, and I don't like to think I'm

Speaker 2 the one or any of that.

Speaker 2 I'm just a simple guy that

Speaker 2 had a miraculous experience that continues to this day.

Speaker 3 With all the government,

Speaker 3 with all the government contact and studying and the Vatican, had anybody ever given you insight? as to whether or not there are more human beings that have had similar experiences to you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and they all relate them back to biblical times. As far as anybody knows, I haven't heard, but there probably are.

Speaker 2 But they always used, you know, St. Francis or these different people throughout the Bible that had these experiences with orbs.
And, you know, the reason NASA wanted to go to be a part of that.

Speaker 2 getting into archives, they wanted to study levitating saints. How come it is a person can take off and fly to the village next door? You know, it really happens.
People levitate.

Speaker 2 So there's more to this world than we, we got blinders on. We're blinded.
And

Speaker 2 yeah,

Speaker 2 but we're awakening now.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I personally believe that

Speaker 3 we are the ones that put the limitations on ourselves.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 3 Everything

Speaker 3 may be possible.

Speaker 2 Well, a lot of those writings that got into this more detailed early on were deemed

Speaker 2 dangerous knowledge, so that it was removed from us understanding all of this stuff. It's kind of like that was priestly stuff.

Speaker 3 Where do you think you were for the hours that you disappeared during the incident in 2007?

Speaker 2 Well, I can tell you, I had no clue until 2008 when MUFON came and did the discovery show. They actually sent a guy from a Harvard-trained psychiatrist that does hypnosis and he hypnotized me

Speaker 2 first to say we're removing this block

Speaker 2 and then we're going to come back next week and find out what happened. So he did the first one and immediately I could think about it and not pass out or have an excruciating headache.

Speaker 2 So what he did work.

Speaker 2 And then my wife and kids started for the next,

Speaker 2 it was about two weeks before they came.

Speaker 2 They were startled because when I'd go to bed, which always went pretty early, they'd be up till late. I'd be yelling out in my sleep and screaming and talking.

Speaker 2 And they were in there filming me with cell phones and iPads while I'm doing this, saying stuff.

Speaker 2 Weird stuff, you know, like seeing beings and on Mars and all kinds of weird stuff.

Speaker 2 So eventually I began to remember some of what happened, not all, but what I can tell you,

Speaker 2 the four hours

Speaker 2 while I was gone was a virtual tour. I was inside a bubble,

Speaker 2 something that was solid that I could stand on, but I couldn't see the walls, but I could touch them, but I could see everything in every direction.

Speaker 2 And there were always three

Speaker 2 figures behind me that were shadowy, and they were narrating what I was seeing.

Speaker 2 And I saw North America from way up high. I saw the whole United States.
And then I was taken to Egypt

Speaker 2 and I saw the pyramids and this Hathor's temple. I saw that

Speaker 2 the spinx facing to the east.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 the lady comes back.

Speaker 2 The following year after all this,

Speaker 2 this was in 2013 is when I really got that message from her because that's when I was asked by the Pentagon by two Air Force generals to put it in writing what she told me. And I did.

Speaker 2 And this was on the request from NASA, a friend at NASA. So he came and got it and hand-delivered it to these generals.
And

Speaker 2 she told me that, she said that

Speaker 2 when the star of Regulus,

Speaker 2 she called it a red star, when you look at it, it looks blue. But she said, when Regulus is red on the horizon in front of the gaze of the Sphinx,

Speaker 2 before daylight, so in other words, when it's sitting right on top of the horizon, before the sun comes up,

Speaker 2 that that moment would mark a change in humanity's knowledge.

Speaker 2 And that's then she showed me other things. War, us bombing Iran, us bombing Syria.
And in them days, none of that had happened. So I put all that on this piece of paper.

Speaker 2 And now I've had so many write me back, oh my God, you see they just bombed Iran or Iran just bombed us. You know, you were right the whole time.

Speaker 2 And I did that in 2012. And so what they did was I gave them the date of 2026 because they took that

Speaker 2 celestial event and ran it through these machines that showed that exact alignment will happen in 2026, Easter.

Speaker 2 What will happen? The star will, the alignment she told me about, that the star of Regulus would be on the horizon in front of the Sphinx. At that moment, there would be a new knowledge.

Speaker 2 Well I had no idea if this was even possible, you know, but these astronomers run it through the machines and it comes out that that star is going to come up on the horizon

Speaker 2 in Easter of 2026.

Speaker 2 And from that point forward, they started remote viewing the state. Government did.

Speaker 2 And now you hear it all over TV. 2026, that's the big date.
2027, that year, something's going to happen. Armageddon, you hear it all over.
You know, you

Speaker 2 hear it on TV.

Speaker 2 If you study, like,

Speaker 2 I've heard even,

Speaker 2 well, I won't say names, but.

Speaker 3 Please do.

Speaker 2 Well, you know Lou Elizondo, right? Lou has mentioned that date. A lot of people have.

Speaker 3 Easter of 2026.

Speaker 2 Well, the year of 2026. I gave him the specific time.

Speaker 2 And it was with Robert Grant that I told him about this alignment and all. And he's like, oh my God,

Speaker 2 he's been looking for this ruby,

Speaker 2 this little ruby you have to find, and place it between the paws of the Sphinx to make this

Speaker 2 event that he knows is going to happen in 2026. I said, Robert, it's not a ruby, it's the star of regulations.
He looks like he's like, oh my God,

Speaker 2 it's the king star.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 what's going to happen, I don't know, But I think it's possible that's

Speaker 2 the return of

Speaker 2 Christ. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Or the lady and the whole heavenly host living with us, Jesus.

Speaker 2 That's the first time I've ever said that in my life publicly.

Speaker 2 You're the first.

Speaker 2 And a million people has asked me

Speaker 2 this.

Speaker 2 I think it's entirely possible that,

Speaker 2 because she told me, she told me this, she told me that when the suffering of man becomes too great, that they're going to stop it. And they're going to snuff out the darkness.

Speaker 2 That's why the military and the government all want to know about this.

Speaker 2 Because they know it's real. They know this lady has been seen a million times.

Speaker 2 And when she comes, she's always warning of some big catastrophe. In the Native American world, they call her the white buffalo calf lady.

Speaker 2 And she would come warning about

Speaker 2 some tribe coming to kill everybody or some big event.

Speaker 2 It's in every culture that way.

Speaker 2 But I'm as

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 I wish I knew

Speaker 2 more.

Speaker 3 What else do you know? know?

Speaker 2 I just

Speaker 2 I think we're living in the worst, the worst possible times right now, that

Speaker 2 if we don't make some changes,

Speaker 2 there's going to be some major disasters about to happen. And it's man-made.
It's not solar flare. It's not any of that.

Speaker 2 It's a dark force. Because she told me, well, I'll tell you what she told me, this is what I put in writing part of it.
She said there are people in power. I put this in writing in 2012.

Speaker 2 She said, there are people in power.

Speaker 2 And I'm not going to say where she... focused my thoughts on that, but there's script in the book of Revelation

Speaker 2 to bring about Armageddon and the end of the world.

Speaker 2 They're doing it intentionally, and that's what she told me. And that's the very thing I, the main meat of the whole message I sent to

Speaker 2 these generals.

Speaker 2 So it makes sense, right?

Speaker 3 Who is they?

Speaker 2 I don't know who they are. I think they're Satanists.

Speaker 2 I think they're people that worship the dark force,

Speaker 2 that don't care for humanity and human life. And in fact, they're the total opposite of, you know, worship the devil.

Speaker 2 I don't know if there is a devil. I think it's

Speaker 2 a very dark force that is living

Speaker 2 full of dark entities that feed on you parasitically.

Speaker 2 They'd be non-physical.

Speaker 2 They shapeshift. They take your mind over.
They make you do crazy things. They deceive you.

Speaker 2 Make you kill somebody, go crazy. Where

Speaker 2 the angelic world are the physical beings. They can come in here and light.
These beings are made of light.

Speaker 2 The dark force is a parasitic race. And whoever is aligned with that

Speaker 2 is,

Speaker 2 according to the mother, the lady,

Speaker 2 is

Speaker 2 scripting the book of Revelation.

Speaker 2 They didn't want it to happen.

Speaker 3 Why did they want it to happen?

Speaker 2 I think it's a dark force. I think that they want to stuff out God.
They don't want us to have God in our heart. Why do you think they did evolution?

Speaker 2 That's the biggest, dumbest thing I ever heard in my life, that

Speaker 2 every living thing come from a mud puddle and it can't happen. It's just not possible.
That's just, it's a laugh. It's a joke.

Speaker 3 You know what I find interesting is

Speaker 3 from the very beginning,

Speaker 3 when you saw the being

Speaker 3 that your family and initially you, if I remember correctly, thought was just the medication,

Speaker 2 you

Speaker 3 had some type of an intuition from the very get-go that this was a guardian angel of some type.

Speaker 3 And it's natural, it has progressed.

Speaker 2 I knew I had one when I was 10.

Speaker 2 I just knew it. I knew something saved me because the doctor's like,

Speaker 2 man, you shouldn't have lived through this.

Speaker 2 If I showed you the hole in my back and the lid in front of me right here, you'll be like, how did this happen? Is that close to my spinal column? I'm leaning over a bit.

Speaker 2 Is that close to the back of my head? And then directly in line with my heart.

Speaker 2 And I knew, I knew the doctor told me you're the luckiest guy in the world. And all I could think then was it wasn't luck, it was something protecting me.

Speaker 2 In fact,

Speaker 2 in my regression, 2008,

Speaker 2 if you heard the regression, I said, they said, we were with you when you were 10 years old, and we'll be with you right on.

Speaker 3 You know what else I find interesting?

Speaker 3 You are the only one,

Speaker 3 to my knowledge, that I've spoken to on this subject, on the UFO subject, that believes in Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 I do wholeheartedly. More today than I ever did.

Speaker 3 That openly talks about it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 More today than ever. And that's been a problem

Speaker 2 of censorship and

Speaker 2 kind of put me on the back burner and keeping me at bay publicly.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It really has.

Speaker 3 I'm not surprised.

Speaker 3 I'm not surprised when...

Speaker 2 But I'd never told this message about what you just we just talked about until now, because now I think it's the time to tell it.

Speaker 2 12 years, 13 years, I've kept it secret.

Speaker 2 Only my family knew.

Speaker 3 What do you think that day is going to look like? If you thought you had to have...

Speaker 2 It says in Michael in that glorious and beautiful day.

Speaker 2 He's coming back to save us all.

Speaker 3 Do you look forward to that death?

Speaker 2 Absolutely.

Speaker 3 Do you have any fear about that death?

Speaker 2 Do you hear my children and these crazy people that just can't get a hold of whatever they're doing? I'm almost 63 years old. I've been through 11 or 12 presidents.

Speaker 2 And people my age and your age, but especially my age, everything's happening now is completely

Speaker 2 not normal. And we all see the writing on the wall.
We all see the players, some of these players. There's a lot behind the scene

Speaker 2 that we especially, you know, they're hidden, but we all see something ain't right. And

Speaker 2 there's got to be a cleansing. And the only thing that can change people is God.

Speaker 2 And the phenomenon can change you inside. But there ain't going to be no change of humanity without having some spiritual thing come in and change us from the inside out.

Speaker 2 And that's what's coming.

Speaker 2 And there's nothing nobody can do about it. They can squeal and squirm and try to make it look negative and ugly all they want, but it's not going to stop what's coming, according to her.

Speaker 2 And in the book of Revelation, in the very last chapter,

Speaker 2 it says,

Speaker 2 When the armies surround Israel on all four sides,

Speaker 2 that he's coming back to fight the battle and rid the world of evil.

Speaker 2 And then there'll be a time of peace, a thousand years.

Speaker 2 And that's what the lady told me.

Speaker 2 Same thing.

Speaker 2 I said a lot.

Speaker 3 Thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 2 A whole lot. 18 years, I've never told this.
More than 17 and a half years.

Speaker 3 How does it feel to get it out?

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 I'll get a lot of blowback from this, I promise you. I just hope the

Speaker 2 world that has been told it's the devil can wake the heck up and see that a little bit of heaven's coming here to help us.

Speaker 3 Would you be willing to come back on the show?

Speaker 2 I would love to, yes, sir.

Speaker 2 I'd be honored.

Speaker 3 I could go deeper, but

Speaker 3 I think this is

Speaker 3 a good part to end

Speaker 3 this interview.

Speaker 3 But with that being said, I would love to get you back because I have a lot more questions, but I know it's been a rough day.

Speaker 2 Just say the word and I'll be here.

Speaker 3 Thank you, Chris.

Speaker 2 I promise.

Speaker 3 You know, there's been a lot of speculation on

Speaker 3 if UFOs are

Speaker 3 strictly

Speaker 3 some type of spiritual

Speaker 3 entity

Speaker 3 or if they are nuts and bolts.

Speaker 3 Or if it's both.

Speaker 2 There's a possibility there's both, but I haven't seen the other side. A whole

Speaker 2 all these years experience has been with

Speaker 2 the phenomenon, I call it,

Speaker 2 is a spiritual thing. It's like magic.
They appear out of nowhere. In fact, Tim Burchett made a quote, and I saved it.
They believed that the...

Speaker 2 the

Speaker 2 interdimensional world would be the angels. And so if there might be some star cruiser coming from some planet some far away and stopping over to resupply and get some gas or something, right?

Speaker 2 But I can tell you, there's not a reason in this world an alien would come down to the river where I'm crying out, God help me.

Speaker 2 Well, I would even care. Why would they want to help me? Why would they help all these other people, even animals, because they have compassion for us and

Speaker 2 love?

Speaker 3 I know I already asked this,

Speaker 3 but I do want to ask it again.

Speaker 3 And I just want to hear what you personally think. I mean, 2007 to 24, we're talking

Speaker 3 almost

Speaker 3 17 years now.

Speaker 3 Why you?

Speaker 3 What is it that you believe that God saw in you in that moment of time?

Speaker 3 Lots of people look up.

Speaker 2 I think that the phenomenon or God or whoever

Speaker 2 knew that I'm the kind of person that would never back down.

Speaker 2 Never,

Speaker 2 ever. Look at Paul in the Bible.
Look at all the apostles. Every one of them.
They knew what they knew and they went to death for it. They were boiled in oil.

Speaker 2 tortured and crucified and hung upside down and dismembered because they knew without a doubt. Paul on the road to Damascus, it says, and a flash of light flashed around him and blinded him.

Speaker 2 It was an orb,

Speaker 2 the ball of light. And that's exactly what comes out of the sky and interacts or comes into my house or around us.
It's just the light.

Speaker 2 And it answers to prayer.

Speaker 3 How do you pray?

Speaker 2 I pray to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the Holy Trinity.

Speaker 3 How? Do you ask? Do you just talk to it?

Speaker 3 Is it ceremonial?

Speaker 2 No, it's a thought.

Speaker 2 I don't have to say a word. I can think, and they come.

Speaker 2 They're connected to our thoughts, 100%. Yours too.
They know your thoughts. They know all of us.
In fact, I believe everybody has guardian angels, probably at least two.

Speaker 2 And I've been quoted saying there's 15 around me at all times. My kids are like, how do you know that, Dad? Because I constantly see there's about 15 of them that'll appear.

Speaker 2 And sometimes they do it all at once.

Speaker 2 So I think you have them. All you got to do is acknowledge it.

Speaker 3 I know I have them.

Speaker 2 You do.

Speaker 3 I've talked about it several times on this show and given very, very detailed examples.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 next time I'll share those with you.

Speaker 2 I want to hear that. I really do.

Speaker 3 Well, Chris.

Speaker 3 What a man.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 3 Thank you for what you're doing. And thank you for being here.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 3 God bless you, brother.

Speaker 2 I appreciate you, Sean, so much.

Speaker 3 Appreciate you, too. We'll see you soon.

Speaker 2 God bless. Thank you.