#253 Chase Hughes - Real MKUltra Documents, Alien Deception and Simulation Theory

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Speaker 2 Chase Hughes, welcome to the show, man. Thanks, Sean.

Speaker 1 Good to be here.

Speaker 2 It's good to have you. Love the stuff you put out.

Speaker 1 Thanks, man.

Speaker 2 So, yeah. So, I've been, I'm pumped about this.
And, man, you made it on short notice. Thank you.

Speaker 2 Perfect timing.

Speaker 1 Thanks, man.

Speaker 2 But, yeah,

Speaker 2 I have a like a kind of like a docu audio series coming out on PsyOps.

Speaker 1 you were one of the interviews in there and uh so really caught my interest just narrating that um that series that i did with ironclad i heard a clip of this you already heard a clip yeah your guy sent i'm maybe i hope i don't get him in trouble no it's all good your uh production guy sent me a clip that had me in there uh and it sounds fantastic it's awesome it's like production level, like Hollywood level audio adventure through PsyOps, man.

Speaker 1 It's very good.

Speaker 2 Thank you. Thank you.
Well, thank you for being a part of it.

Speaker 2 It was awesome to do it.

Speaker 1 My pleasure.

Speaker 2 I've never done anything like that before. It's good.
So thank you. Thank you.
But

Speaker 2 yeah, so if anybody's interested, links in the description. You can sign up for it there.
But everybody starts off with an introduction here. Chase Hughes, a retired U.S.

Speaker 2 Navy chief with 20 years of experience in military and intelligence operations, specializing in human behavior analysis, leading expert in behavior behavior profiling, persuasion, and influence, having created some of the most advanced training programs in the field.

Speaker 2 Best-selling author of books like the Ellipsis Manual, which dives deep into the engineering of human behavior and mind control techniques.

Speaker 2 A master trainer in hypnosis and body language, teaching elite skills in reading behavior.

Speaker 2 Co-founder of the Behavior Panel on YouTube, where you break down real-world body language and deception detection with over a million subscribers. Today, we're here to talk about PSYOPs.

Speaker 2 I just talked about the target intelligence psyop with Ironclad that I did. And like I said, that'll be in the description.
But, man,

Speaker 2 there's a lot of...

Speaker 2 I mean, nobody trusts anything anymore these days, it seems like. There's no trust in the institutions.
There's no trust in mainstream media. Maybe a little bit of trust within the older generations.

Speaker 2 And I mean, these algorithms put you into, you know, basically a cage of

Speaker 2 whatever it thinks you want to see more of. And I mean, it's literally like a fucking cage, man.

Speaker 1 It is. It's a perfect word for it.

Speaker 2 It's like every other post you look at has to do with, you know, whatever.

Speaker 2 I wonder how personalized these algorithms are.

Speaker 2 I was thinking about asking some of the people on my team here if I could just take a look at their social media, but I was like, fuck,

Speaker 2 it's so catered to the user. It might be too much of a privacy concern to even broach the subject.
Hey, let me see your Instagram. I just want to see what's in the video.

Speaker 1 Throw all these twerking videos. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 1 so, I mean,

Speaker 2 what is the definition of a PSYOP to you?

Speaker 1 I think a PSYOP, when I use the term, is talking about a narrative-driven control of perception with the aim of shaping behavior.

Speaker 1 So it's narrative-driven. There has to be some kind of narrative or desired outcome.
I'm just going to feed you something enough to where I have a desired outcome that I want you to do behaviorally.

Speaker 1 I want you to believe something, adopt some new belief, maybe take on some new identity of I am this type of person now and I do this thing now instead of ideas. So it's more about identity than ideas

Speaker 1 and who you are.

Speaker 2 Makes sense. Makes sense.

Speaker 1 And I think we're at it,

Speaker 1 you said it,

Speaker 1 we're at this all-time low in people's ability to feel trusting in the government. And can I trust what the government's telling us? We've been through this

Speaker 1 whole COVID thing was just an unbelievably obvious. And that's the thing,

Speaker 1 that it's starting to become more and more obvious over time,

Speaker 1 which I don't know why they're doing that. But if I had to make a huge guess, this is because the people that are people or organizations, whoever's behind a lot of this stuff,

Speaker 1 I think they're getting old.

Speaker 1 And I think there's some narcissism there that's causing them to want this process to happen faster so it happens during their lifetime.

Speaker 2 What do you mean, what happens?

Speaker 1 Whatever desire to end state that these people, which I can't predict, and

Speaker 1 my theories would just be wild conjecture.

Speaker 1 But it's very obvious that we're being engineered to have this tribalistic us versus them mentality and all of these other things that are just built, just baked into everything.

Speaker 1 We can go as deep as you want to go on that.

Speaker 2 I would love to go as deep, as deep as you can.

Speaker 2 I've wanted to talk about this for a long time.

Speaker 1 So let me start out just by introducing you to an ancestor of ours. They live in these tribal, almost nomadic tribes.
And the average tribe 100,000 years ago,

Speaker 1 we believe was 120 people or so, 150, 120 people. So pretty small social network, right? So you know everybody's names.
You're familiar with everybody's behavioral habits and things like that.

Speaker 1 And there's a few things that kind of govern your life. And keep in mind that our brains haven't changed.
The human brain itself has not evolved one more wrinkle since then.

Speaker 1 So it's identical brain to 100,000 years ago.

Speaker 2 Has it devolved?

Speaker 1 There's no proof of that either. Okay.

Speaker 1 And that wouldn't, they would be measuring interior skull volume and things like that.

Speaker 1 So over the course of time, your ancestors, if they piss someone off in the tribe and they get judged by a lot of people in the tribe, they do something silly and they get some kind of judgment.

Speaker 1 They get excommunicated. They get exiled and kicked out of the tribe.

Speaker 1 This meant death. Like, A, they're not going to have food and support anymore, water, all this other stuff that's very important to life, but B, they can't have sex anymore.

Speaker 1 They're not attractive to a mate anymore. And now their genes die.
So now it's not just death for me, it's a full death of my genetic bloodline. It's massive.

Speaker 1 And we hear people all the time say, well, this public speaking is the number one fear of

Speaker 1 people.

Speaker 1 But speaking is never what people are afraid of. It's the judgment.
the potential for judgment. Somebody's going to judge me.
I'm going to get laughed at.

Speaker 1 I'm going to get kicked off the stage or something like that. That is hardwired into our nervous system and it's inside of the lower part of our brain.

Speaker 1 And if I can target the non-human part of the brain, this mammalian mammal brain inside of our brain, that governs your whole life.

Speaker 1 It's the thing that keeps your heart beating. It's the thing that, if you say, I'm going to hold my breath until I die, the reason that you can't is that part of your brain's in charge.

Speaker 1 It's either going to make you breathe or knock your ass out.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 this social fear, being afraid of what other people are going to think of me became weaponized hardcore weaponized just in the last 15 20 years

Speaker 1 with social media coming out our brains are wired to handle 120 people

Speaker 2 and then social media becomes this placebo of connection what do you mean our brains are wired to handle a 20 120 people does that mean we can we can

Speaker 2 i think the wall street journal just put something out very similar to this a couple of days ago saying that the human mind can only, can only basically

Speaker 2 effectively

Speaker 2 handle 150 different relationships with people. Yes.

Speaker 2 Is that where we're going?

Speaker 1 Yes. Okay.

Speaker 1 So it's it's forge, foster, and maintain. Can I forge a relationship, foster a new relationship with someone, and then maintain it? So we're limited to about 150.

Speaker 1 And social media comes on the scene. Somehow, that's triggering our need a little bit.
It's fulfilling some need. It's like a placebo of social connection.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 what happens, like we have this city where there's a million people in a city and your brain can't handle more than 150, what do we do? We go into apathy. We go into absolute apathy.

Speaker 1 And this is where you get things like psychologists studying something called the bystander effect. Somebody's in public, they get stabbed or robbed or something.

Speaker 1 If there's lots of people around, people don't say anything and they don't do anything because it's a diffusion of responsibility and we care less and less and less every day.

Speaker 1 People are talking about like all the stuff going on in Ukraine or whatever, but like there's murders four blocks from your house and people being murdered.

Speaker 1 So we have an apathy for people that are around us once the tribe gets above a certain number.

Speaker 1 And what social media is doing, and I'm not here to stand on a box and demonize social media.

Speaker 1 And I don't think anyone that created social media is not setting out to do this.

Speaker 1 But what social media is doing with this placebo effect is it's tricking our brains into feeling a little sense of connection, but we're confusing attention for connection.

Speaker 2 Interesting.

Speaker 1 And the second part of this is anybody watching the show right now on their iPad or whatever would agree that we are in a loneliness epidemic, the whole world.

Speaker 1 And we're more connected than ever. But we are in this loneliness epidemic because what we're getting is a placebo of social connection from social media, from

Speaker 1 all these apps and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 So back to this tribe. There are four things that we

Speaker 1 briefly, briefly, or we went into in the audio series that you did with Ironclad.

Speaker 1 And this spells out the word fate because it is our fate. And this is focus, authority, tribe, and emotion.

Speaker 1 If I can hack your focus, social media, if I can make you think that someone's an authority figure by they have more views, they have more subscribers, they have more whatever, they got the blue check mark, whatever it is.

Speaker 1 Tribe, if I can hack your feeling of tribe, then I can get you to do whatever I want you to do, or I can get you to view norms as completely different because you're in a new tribe, us versus them mentality.

Speaker 1 And the emotional part. If you're looking at your social media, I'm not going to say the name of any one of them,

Speaker 1 but I'm sure you've scrolled through social media before. Like you see four or five posts that are just engineered to piss you off.
Oh, yeah. Engineered.

Speaker 1 And then every once in a while, you'll see a little, one of those like videos where we're like, oh, we had this baby eagle land on our our front porch

Speaker 1 and it shows the eagle and then it shows him bottle feeding it and then it shows him a little bigger and he's grown up and he's friends with them now and like you get this little emotional kick and immediately when you scroll after one of those you'll see an ad

Speaker 2 no

Speaker 2 yeah why

Speaker 1 that's it's there's a hypnosis phrase for this And in hypnosis, they call this fractionation.

Speaker 1 If I can get your emotion to go up and then back down again, every time I take you back up just a little bit, just a tiny bit above water, the next time I pull you down, you'll go deeper.

Speaker 1 So like in hypnosis, I might put you under hypnosis and then just wake you up from the neck up or maybe have you open your eyes just a little bit.

Speaker 1 So I'll pull you out of trance a little bit and then send you back down and pull you out and then send you back down.

Speaker 1 So it's proven that. we'll go deeper and deeper.
And the same thing, same effect happens with social media. And you'll see that, you'll see those spikes.

Speaker 1 And I think anybody that's that has social media can start to become aware of this stuff. Like it's pissing me off, pissing me off, pissing me off.
And then

Speaker 1 that weird video that, like, we're watching social media alone on the couch at night sometime, and like, then we randomly cry for some little rescued animal video or something.

Speaker 1 And then we get an ad right afterwards.

Speaker 2 Interesting.

Speaker 2 Interesting. And so, this placebo effect rewind in just a little bit.

Speaker 2 You're saying that we are.

Speaker 2 we are mistaking attention on social media for connection, for actual connection. And

Speaker 2 it's serving as some type of

Speaker 2 placebo effect

Speaker 2 to take the place of the connection.

Speaker 1 And I think that's the root of what's going on, why we have this loneliness

Speaker 1 collapse around our world right now.

Speaker 1 But if you go back to this fate model, F-A-T-E, focus, authority, tribe, and emotion, and you go watch an episode of like Cesar Milan, the dog whisperer guy who trains dogs. He's got some celebrities

Speaker 1 shithead dog that like bites people when they come in the house or whatever. What's the first thing that Cesar Milan does? Establishes the dog's focus.

Speaker 1 Second thing he does, establish authority by taking control over the dog's space or by him owning a certain piece of space and not letting the dog come into this area. Third thing, tribe.

Speaker 1 Now we're going to go on a walk. The owner is going to come with us and the dog is going to walk with me.
We're going to walk together. They will not walk in front of me.
We're going to walk together.

Speaker 1 Enforce the sense of tribe. As soon as that's done, I'm going to pet the dog.
I'm going to give the dog a treat. I'm going to tell him he did a great job.
Maybe go watch a movie or something. Emotion.

Speaker 1 That's a mammalian brain, and it's the same whether you're training or manipulating a human or a dolphin, a monkey, or a dog. That's that ancient system that's wired into us.

Speaker 1 And the scary part, what I think is scary, is that there's no firewall. Like we don't, we, we can't go download McAfee and put it in our head for making ourselves immune to this stuff.

Speaker 1 I'm as vulnerable as everybody else.

Speaker 1 Knowing about the stuff helps and being able to see that, like you're scrolling through social media, like, whoa i just i finally saw that thing that helps because it's kind of takes some power away from it

Speaker 1 but truly understanding that we are hardwired this little system the limbic system mammalian brain in our in our head makes decisions about things way before we think we make decisions and this is proven on mri studies that the the mammalian part of our brain has already made the decision before we even make the actual decision.

Speaker 2 No No kidding.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 our decision-making is also a placebo. It's already been done in the lower part of the brain.
So, the lower part of the brain's job is to make choices and decisions.

Speaker 1 The upper part of the brain, it's called the neocortex, which is Latin for new cover.

Speaker 1 That thing's job is to kind of take credit for making the decisions. But that's also where our ego lives and what makes us

Speaker 1 different than other primates, and why we get Einstein and Mozart.

Speaker 2 Interesting. Interesting.

Speaker 5 A lot of dark stuff going on in the world right now.

Speaker 5 And it's to the point where I don't even believe my own eyes anymore because I cannot verify what people are saying about all the political violence, the division.

Speaker 5 I partnered with this production company called Ironclad and we're doing an eight-part audio series on psyops on why foreign countries, governments, maybe even our own government would conduct a psyop on its own people.

Speaker 5 And I just think that this series is going to be extremely important because it's going to open the eyes of people on why these things happen.

Speaker 5 You can head over to psyopshow.com, order it today. I think you're going to get a lot out of this.
Who's pulling the strings?

Speaker 2 Who's pulling them?

Speaker 2 How much of what we see today do you think is an engineered psyop?

Speaker 1 Give me an example.

Speaker 1 I think some

Speaker 1 example would be,

Speaker 2 I mean, you know, this stuff really popped on my radar during COVID, so I guess we can start with COVID, you know,

Speaker 1 COVID.

Speaker 1 The,

Speaker 2 I mean, political violence, you know,

Speaker 2 that's like the big one, right? Charlie Kirk was just assassinated.

Speaker 2 Some people think it was the left. Some people think it was the right.
Some people think it was Israel. Some people think it was trans.
You know, at least that's what it was at the beginning.

Speaker 2 A lot of questions going on about this fucking guy that supposedly shot him. Did he? I don't know.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Super weird. So, I mean, is that, is that a

Speaker 2 is that a psyop? Is the Epstein shit a psyop? I mean,

Speaker 2 Ukraine, China,

Speaker 1 all psyop. Everything.

Speaker 2 It's just, it's to the fucking point.

Speaker 2 I don't believe anything that I,

Speaker 2 it's so bad now I don't even know if I believe my own eyes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that's good that you're starting to get that way. And I think so many people are waking up because they made it way too obvious during COVID,

Speaker 1 which is a good thing. I'm glad they did it because it woke up so many people.

Speaker 1 where they started doing this crazier and crazier and crazier shit. And people are like, whoa,

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 it the government's doing this so I think that helped people wake up but what I'm what I meant was

Speaker 1 with an example there are some things that people call a psyop like this algorithm like oh the algorithm's engineering your behavior the algorithm's job is to make you buy stuff and and make you see ads and that's where money comes from and revenue so the algorithm says after this and this type of thing they tend people tend to click click this buy now button for this flannel shirt, right?

Speaker 1 So since we do that, I'm going to start doing that more. And the algorithm continuously learns.

Speaker 1 And I think there's a tendency for a lot of people to think that a lot of this stuff is these dark forces sitting around a marble conference table at night, smoking cigars, like planning this stuff.

Speaker 1 I think a lot of the stuff that we see online is the result of these algorithms doing what makes revenue. And I think it's an EBITDA revenue-focused algorithm.
But with the other stuff, if

Speaker 1 when it comes to psyops, there's a few ways to tell if something is a psyop.

Speaker 1 And number one, the most important thing for anybody to learn is that if an opinion has to be silenced for something to for another idea to flourish, then you're in a psyop.

Speaker 1 Guaranteed.

Speaker 2 We've seen a lot of that lately. A ton.

Speaker 1 A lot of that. The dude, there were were Harvard-educated doctors banned from social media for openly speaking about stuff that's now we've shown to be true.

Speaker 1 Harvard educated doctors, the dude who invented mRNA went on Rogan because he got kicked off of Twitter, I think. I don't remember what it was.
So

Speaker 1 the moment you see someone being silenced,

Speaker 1 And it's an opinion from somebody who should have some kind of social authority, That's a big deal. And that should be terrifying to you, to anybody that is witnessing that.

Speaker 2 I've seen a lot of that in the past couple of years, too.

Speaker 1 There's been a ton. A lot.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the interesting thing is what that does

Speaker 1 with our

Speaker 1 social media kind of hacking that tribal part of our brain, if all of us were sitting here in a room and we see someone get pulled up in front of the whole crowd and then smacked out, smacked in the face, embarrassed, and then tossed out of the room.

Speaker 1 And I was about to go up on stage and do that. I'm like, yeah,

Speaker 1 I'm going to be quiet now. I don't want that to happen to me.

Speaker 1 So now we're using that tribalism as I'm going to take this person and I'm going to make an example out of them to prevent everybody else from stepping up.

Speaker 1 I'm going to increase fear associated with social, being socially outcast.

Speaker 2 Man,

Speaker 2 this happened to me.

Speaker 2 would

Speaker 2 we've always dealt with some a little not not always ever since you know the new administration's and i've we haven't really had any issues but i mean i remember we had jim kvizal on it was during that you know sound of freedom movie came out

Speaker 2 a lot of people hated that movie right yeah

Speaker 2 dude they just the episode just disappeared

Speaker 2 Your episode

Speaker 2 just got pulled down, like woke up one day, fucking gone.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 I think it's because he talked about,

Speaker 2 which apparently is like a forbidden topic, right?

Speaker 2 But yeah, just woke up. It was gone.
We re-uploaded it. This shit happens to everybody.

Speaker 2 Not everybody. It happens to a lot of people.

Speaker 1 To tell you how pervasive this is.

Speaker 1 The moment you mentioned that word in association with the video being like deleted from YouTube, I was like, oh, shit, Sean's going to get our show kicked off the internet.

Speaker 2 No, I'm going to bleep that word.

Speaker 1 Okay, good.

Speaker 1 But that was my first reaction:

Speaker 1 oh no,

Speaker 1 I'm going to be outcast, or some little piece is going to be outcast because of this.

Speaker 1 So I had that fear while you and I are talking about some people exploiting that fear.

Speaker 1 And I'm the guy. I'm the guy who teaches

Speaker 1 psyops and the army psyops who do this for good reasons, hopefully,

Speaker 1 how to do a lot of this stuff. And I'm not immune to any of it.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 5 can you kind of, you know,

Speaker 2 could you walk us through

Speaker 2 the planning and execution of a SIOP from start to end?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So phase one is target data collection. So what I want to do is figure out the basic behaviors and beliefs of this person.

Speaker 1 So I want to see what their perception is and what context they find themselves in. So,

Speaker 1 let me give you an example. Do you shower in the morning or at night? Both.
You're a two-time a-day guy?

Speaker 2 Sometimes.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 2 In the morning. Okay.

Speaker 2 In the morning.

Speaker 1 All right. So

Speaker 1 if it's a morning shower, then I'll say sometime within the next 24 hours, you're going to take all of your clothes off, right?

Speaker 1 But you won't do it on a podcast. And that's because of context.
So if I can figure out a way to make you to shift the context in your mind, I can get you to do anything.

Speaker 1 Like you're not going to take a gun right now and shoot me, right? But if the context was different and I was like running at you with a knife or something, then you would.

Speaker 1 So if I shift context, I can get desired behavior out of any human being.

Speaker 1 As just a weird example of this, there was a lawyer in Washington state who was arrested because he learned hypnosis and then started using hypnosis on these people in his office.

Speaker 1 And there's a woman who'd been seeing this office, this lawyer, and

Speaker 1 he was hypnotizing her. And she noticed one day that her bra was misplaced, like kind of pushed to the side a little bit.

Speaker 1 And that he had like helped her redress or like put her clothes back on.

Speaker 1 So she brought a recorder in there and figured out that this guy would put her under hypnosis and say, and now you're coming home, it's the end of the day.

Speaker 1 You're taking out your car keys and put them in that bowl. You walk to the bathroom, you turn that hot shower on,

Speaker 1 and now the context has shifted.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 perception and context are the biggest target acquisition,

Speaker 1 target data acquisition there. So how do they see the world?

Speaker 1 And what is the context where the desired behavior I want what is the context where that behavior is automatic or natural does that make sense

Speaker 2 kinda

Speaker 1 okay

Speaker 1 so

Speaker 1 first I want to get perception so this is how does this person see the world and if I can modify your perception how do you figure out how that person sees the world so beliefs first

Speaker 1 Values, identity, and tribalism.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 So like what's important to them? What's important to the tribe versus the individual? Because those are always different things.

Speaker 1 And then in what context,

Speaker 1 so whatever the desired behavior that I want, what is the context that would make that desired behavior automatic?

Speaker 2 Okay,

Speaker 1 let's backtrack a little bit more. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So you're looking for, you're trying to figure out somebody's perception of the world. So what is, when you are, when you are researching that and putting pen to paper, what does that look like?

Speaker 2 How do you start that? And what are you documenting?

Speaker 1 I tend to want, I tend to look for, and this is me,

Speaker 1 there's six needs and I want to look for individuals in society and where are most of them on this needs map.

Speaker 1 And this is, those six needs are significance. I need to do something so I can feel the most significant person in the room.
Acceptance. So this is more where it's kind of a tribe of people.

Speaker 1 I pride myself on being part of a team. So significance, acceptance, approval, and approval, approval, having a social, and these are all social needs.

Speaker 1 A social need for approval is that friend that we all have that's like, oh, I got that job interview tomorrow and I know I'm going to suck at it. I suck at everything.

Speaker 1 And just to get you to go be like, no, no, it's okay. You're going to do fine.
You did great last time. You're tremendously confident.
You're overqualified.

Speaker 1 So that's kind of the approval type of person. And the final three are intelligence, pity, and strength.

Speaker 1 So intelligence means I need to do something where other people are going to see me as intelligent.

Speaker 1 And then pity is like, they're asking the question, like, do other people realize how bad I've had it or how much I've been through?

Speaker 1 And the strength and power person at the end is,

Speaker 1 can I behave in such a way where no one will ever challenge me? So I'm going to show a lot of posturing, kind of like the false alpha meal syndrome. Okay.
A lot of that.

Speaker 1 So if I, and the cool thing is, even in a conversation one-on-one, you can spot someone's needs usually within a minute and a half.

Speaker 1 And if I know the person is, let's call it an acceptance need person, I automatically know that their social fear is being outcast, being judged, or feeling some kind of social guilt.

Speaker 2 Oh, shit. So it's one or the other of the stuff that you meant, or could there be more?

Speaker 1 You could have one of those with a secondary. Okay.
So you typically have a primary and secondary. Okay.
But if I know that

Speaker 1 if your need is being significant, I automatically understand that your deepest insecurities are about feeling small, insignificant, like you don't matter to anybody and you have no impact. Okay.

Speaker 1 So I know instantly just by understanding

Speaker 1 you on this needs map, I know where your fears and your insecurities are better than probably your therapist that's been working with you for a year and it's been a minute and a half in a conversation.

Speaker 1 So a cult recruiter could use this as easily as a PSYOP doing it on an entire group of people.

Speaker 2 Are there any of these traits that the majority of folks have? Needs?

Speaker 1 Yeah. So when I teach people this,

Speaker 1 and the system that I teach is called NCI, it's neurocognitive intelligence. When I teach people this, I always default to significance and acceptance.
You are important. People like you.

Speaker 1 Those two things are the most easy to

Speaker 1 sway a person's behavior with.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Because the two biggest fears are, I don't matter, people don't like me.

Speaker 2 Gotcha. Right.

Speaker 1 So once you figure out the needs, then you have those insecurities, and then you want to figure out a plan to weaponize or

Speaker 1 leverage those insecurities.

Speaker 1 And we'll typically do this in small ways. So we kind of view it as a wedge.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 the small things that we do matter a lot on the end.

Speaker 1 And if I could go into like nerd mode, I'm going to talk about a piece of research here. And Bob Cialdini, he wrote the book called Influence, and he wrote another book called Presuasion.

Speaker 1 Fantastic books. He's a research expert for influence, human influence.

Speaker 1 They went around these, let me explain this to you. Let's say we have two neighborhoods here, one neighborhood here, one here.
They're all the same demographics. They make the same amount of money.

Speaker 1 It's middle class.

Speaker 1 And they go to one neighborhood, door to door, and they ask them, Will you put this giant, ugly ass,

Speaker 1 please drive safe sign out in your front yard?

Speaker 1 And in this one neighborhood, 1% of people, give or take, says yes.

Speaker 1 Then they go to this other neighborhood and they say, Will you put this giant ass sign out in your yard that says, please drive safe?

Speaker 1 In the other neighborhood, 89% of people say yes.

Speaker 1 The only difference is in this other neighborhood,

Speaker 1 before they asked them to do the sign, they went around a week in advance and asked everybody one simple question. Do you support safe driving?

Speaker 1 And who's going to say, no, no, I don't do that. Of course, everybody says yes.
And the moment they say yes, they say, I'm so glad. Thank you.
The survey is finished.

Speaker 1 And would you mind placing this tiny sticker on a window that's facing the street that says drive safe. It's like that big, like one of those little alarm company stickers, right?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 my stomach is making noise. I hope it's not coming through on the mic.
Oh, good. We can keep it in if you want.

Speaker 1 So in this, what they did was, do you support safe driving? So now I've got you to make a social commitment because there's two of us standing here at your doorstep.

Speaker 1 So you've just told someone who you are as a human being.

Speaker 1 Next, now that you've said that, I asked you to do this and it's not that big of a deal.

Speaker 1 But a week later, I come to your house and ask you to put this ugly sign on your yard and you say yes, because of this chain of commitments that I've got you to go through.

Speaker 1 And it's not just commitment.

Speaker 1 It's me getting you to agree who you are as a person. So you kind of roll along with that identity.

Speaker 1 So at the beginning of our conversation, if I was an intelligence operator and I wanted to manipulate you, I might talk about my social anxiety.

Speaker 1 When I was a kid, when I was like 19, I had crazy social anxiety.

Speaker 1 I felt like a fake everywhere I went. And,

Speaker 1 but if I started a conversation talking about that, and then I was like, Sean, how did you get to the point of being this like open with other people?

Speaker 1 And the moment you answer my question, I've got you to agree to the next behavior that I need to get you to do.

Speaker 2 Does this make sense? How so?

Speaker 1 I'm starting to pull you out of the box. So I just got you to agree that you are A, not closed off.

Speaker 1 You're B, you're going to talk about your past. So I've woven it into your identity in just this conversation.
I mean,

Speaker 1 if you talk someone into being open, they're not going to live the rest of their life open. But you've got them to commit in this little conversation.

Speaker 1 So the moment I want to go a little outside the box or I want to start talking about intelligence or something like that.

Speaker 1 You're more likely to do it because I've got you to make that first identity agreement about who you are as a human being just by asking you that.

Speaker 1 Or I might complain about people who are really closed off. I might say, you know, there's so many people out there.

Speaker 1 They just live their lives in this little prison worried about what other people think.

Speaker 1 And people will nod their head just like that. And the moment you nod your head, you're like, yep, but what are you, what are you silently agreeing to? That's not me.

Speaker 1 I'm not that person.

Speaker 1 So we get these little identity agreements, and then you understand those needs, and you can leverage so much with human behavior. And this is just the tip of the iceberg, a tiny piece of this.

Speaker 1 But for a SCIOP plan to finish this incredibly long answer to your question, is I want to do data acquisition, figure out needs, which automatically give me insecurities and fears.

Speaker 1 And the moment that happens, figure out context, my desired context that makes the behavior I want out of you automatic or completely expected.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 But this also happens on entire populations.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. And so, you know, when you're looking for a need, I mean, the entire population doesn't have the same need.
It sounds like the majority of people, you know, accept it and significance.

Speaker 2 But so how would you, what would differ when you are, when you're doing a campaign against a foreign government?

Speaker 1 If you're doing it against the government, you're still targeting the people,

Speaker 1 right?

Speaker 1 So targeting the people would mean that you're getting them to make small agreements.

Speaker 1 So I'm not going to drop leaflets or do radio broadcasts or any of that kind of psyop stuff right away that say, hey, you need to convert to this side and adopt these new beliefs.

Speaker 1 The first one is like,

Speaker 1 and let me let me give you an intelligence example of this.

Speaker 1 There was a guy working in Guantanamo

Speaker 1 who almost got turned by one of the prisoners down there.

Speaker 1 And it all started with one of the prisoners asking him one question. That was the beginning.
It was this one question.

Speaker 1 He said, do you think America is perfect?

Speaker 1 And that was the start. And it was a long chain after that.
Has America ever made mistakes? Has America ever hurt people that didn't deserve it? Is that true?

Speaker 1 I was just reading in the library that America gave smallpox smallpox to the native americans

Speaker 1 so it's just this long trail so you always think about like these little steps what are the steps to make this one thing feel natural and when i was learning this

Speaker 1 one of the guys who taught me said that uh walked me through the scenario and he said imagine going on a date and you never shook this girl's hand You never

Speaker 1 helped her through a door. You never put your hand on her shoulder.
Nothing. You haven't made any physical contact with her.
And at the end of the night, you lean in and try to kiss her.

Speaker 1 And it feels weird. It feels off.
It doesn't feel right. It's because nothing happened before that.

Speaker 1 So, what we're really doing and what we're really seeing in today's world is these small incremental steps to change human identity to some ultimate outcome. And the steps that we can see,

Speaker 1 if we kind of backwards analyze this, we're seeing division and tribalism on unprecedented levels. So

Speaker 1 if I'm left wing or if I lean way left, even moderately to the left, and I go on social media and start scrolling my feed,

Speaker 1 I'm going to see people on the right still on my feed. But the type of people that I see that are on the right are going to be the dumbest

Speaker 1 loudmouth morons that you could ever imagine, just to piss me off. If I'm a conservative, I'm going to go on there and see the dumbest idiots that you could ever imagine just to make

Speaker 1 me feel morally superior and make me feel intellectually superior for having chosen this path.

Speaker 2 And drive

Speaker 2 a more intense hate

Speaker 2 to the other side. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And we talked about

Speaker 1 before we started filming, you and I talked about psychedelics and how it dissolves this feeling of separation. And it seems to be the opposite is what's happening now.

Speaker 1 It's just massive amounts of separation. How many times and from how many objects and groups can I get you to separate yourself from?

Speaker 1 It's the opposite of,

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 it is

Speaker 1 so divisive that I think

Speaker 1 we are seeing levels like, I think 20 years ago, if 10 years ago, if you asked someone if somebody should be killed for their opinion or or for having offensive opinions, I think 99.9% of people would say no.

Speaker 1 That's ridiculous. But now it's acceptable.

Speaker 1 And it's only acceptable because the idea became identity.

Speaker 1 So it's idea, then ideology, and then identity. And this is the pathway you walk anyone down in a PSIOP.
Idea, ideology, identity. And we adopt an ideology like, oh, I agree with these beliefs.

Speaker 1 We need to pay people who can't afford it. We need to do this program.
We need to instill this one thing in the school, whatever it is. So now I'm starting to adopt an ideology.

Speaker 1 And the moment that happens, now I have a little tribe of people that agree with me all over social media.

Speaker 1 And now it's identity because someone posts something that's very political, but I believe in it so much that I post it.

Speaker 1 And now the first day, the first week that I start posting that content, now my identity changes. And just like in a conversation when I said, Sean, how'd you get this open?

Speaker 1 Or look at these other people that are really closed off. It's the exact same thing that's happening on social media.

Speaker 1 It's identity. So it's rewiring how I see myself, which means that

Speaker 1 I can take drastic measures to enforce it because it's part of who I am. It's not what I believe.
It's who I am as a person. And you imagine like you've been an operator for a while.

Speaker 1 You viewing yourself as an operator is who you are as a person. That's why you could do this and that's why you did that.
It wasn't because, like, I have a lot of really good ideas in my head.

Speaker 1 I have my training was great. It's you.
Your confidence was in yourself and not the ideas. So, the moment I get someone to place all of those ideas into identity,

Speaker 1 we take morality off the table.

Speaker 2 Shit.

Speaker 1 And it's getting worse.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no kidding. What are, I mean, what are the biggest divisions that you see happening right now?

Speaker 1 Well, obviously the left versus right is the biggest.

Speaker 1 And the one thing that I would want everyone in the world to hear when it comes to

Speaker 1 all the shit we see on Twitter or Facebook or Instagram, whatever it is, you have more in common with someone who voted for the other guy than the billionaire who is funding a lot of these ideas and ideologies that you're seeing on social media.

Speaker 1 You have way more in common. Like, and you see these idiots on TV, whether they're left or right based on who you are in real life, and the algorithm is showing you the opposite, right?

Speaker 1 The idiots on the other side.

Speaker 1 That's not real. That's a tiny percentage of the population.
A tiny one, I think.

Speaker 1 If you go to like Walmart or Target and you're standing in line and you see somebody that voted for the other person, they're not an asshole. They're not slapping you in the face.

Speaker 1 And we have so much in common with each other. Like we all want fair income.
We all want to, we all hate taxes. We all want our kids to be safe.
We all want our kids to be well-fed.

Speaker 1 We want to be able to have fun and not pay too much taxes. Like we have so much in common with those people.
We have nothing.

Speaker 1 in common with a lot of these elites who are kind of orchestrating a lot of the shit that we're seeing on social media.

Speaker 2 Oh, Dobb. 100% agree with that.
Yeah. 100% agree with that.

Speaker 1 I've studied hypnosis for 25 years.

Speaker 1 And I work with one-on-one clients. I work with Formula One athletes.
I've worked with pro fighters, UFC champions,

Speaker 1 PGA golfers.

Speaker 1 The one thing that I've noticed when I'm working with all of these people is that the moment that

Speaker 1 we start understanding that everything,

Speaker 1 every time I'm looking at other person there, they are scared like I am. They're lonely like I am.
And all of these things that we, that all of us hide from the rest of the world, I'm lonely.

Speaker 1 I'm scared things aren't going to go right for me. I don't know if things are going to work out.
I have to hedge everything. Are my kids going to be okay?

Speaker 1 All the stuff we worry about, we have that in common with everybody.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I don't know. This is like, I don't want this to turn into a Mr.

Speaker 1 Rogers episode, but we really got to come back and realize that we have to understand that we've got more in common with those people than the, than the elites.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think

Speaker 2 it's definitely not going to be a Mr. Rogers episode.
But,

Speaker 2 you know, I mean, so, you know,

Speaker 2 everybody hears the term, you know, divide and conquer, divide and conquer, divide and conquer. We've heard it several times, you know, all by design, heard that several times.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But,

Speaker 2 you know, I mean, who,

Speaker 1 who,

Speaker 2 I guess what I'm asking is we are divided on so many things. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's

Speaker 2 red versus blue. It's black versus white.
It's Christian versus non-Christian. It's, I mean, it's, it's LGBTQ or not.
It's, it's just, it's, fuck, man. It's everywhere.

Speaker 2 Everywhere you look, you can't find anything that's not division anymore. Race, religion, politics.

Speaker 1 I have a theory about this.

Speaker 1 If you'll indulge me

Speaker 1 here.

Speaker 1 Are you familiar with Maslow's pyramid, Maslow's hierarchy of needs?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 So it's a hierarchy of what we need to kind of survive, basically, as humans.

Speaker 1 And there's a few levels to it. The bottom is just survival.
Above that is safety. safety.
And above that is love and belonging. And then it's self-esteem.
And then actualization.

Speaker 1 Like, I'm living my purpose in life.

Speaker 1 If we have a few of these pyramid levels met, we will always worry about the next one up.

Speaker 1 You with me so far? Yeah. Okay.
So we've got kind of the survival and safety met.

Speaker 1 You're not going to see debates about

Speaker 1 gender in a country where people are starving.

Speaker 1 It will never happen.

Speaker 1 You're only going to see the next level that people are worried about on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So if we have our survival met, our safety is met, the next thing up is social and belonging.

Speaker 1 And that's where we get that placebo. That's where we get that little placebo.
And the way, since we're not fulfilling that, that gets to be something that occupies us.

Speaker 1 So we focus on what makes us different. I have to isolate myself and I have to find a tribe of people who believe in this one small thing that I believe in.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to try to divide myself as much as possible. When you have societies that are high up, that have

Speaker 1 all the belonging stuff handled, the next thing is esteem. So if belonging feels like it's met, our self-esteem and our definition of who I am as a person,

Speaker 1 that stuff has got to be conquered.

Speaker 1 that's the next thing and all that we're seeing now is like i have to identify with this one thing to increase my feeling of esteem even though the social part of that pyramid isn't being met we're kind of jumping over it and we can never get to the esteem part because social can no longer be fulfilled gotcha okay

Speaker 2 what why

Speaker 2 What is the point of the division? I mean,

Speaker 2 I get it. Creates broken society.
Nobody can agree on shit. Nobody gets along.
People stand, essentially, a nation stands for nothing because it's so fucking divided. Totally understand that.

Speaker 2 Who wants us divided? And why? You know, at the beginning, you were talking about nine people at a marble roundtable. Do you think that's what it is?

Speaker 2 Or is it Russia, China, anybody, you know, all these foreign actors? Maybe, maybe, maybe, I mean, obviously, not just maybe, obviously, it's, you know,

Speaker 2 not all foreign actors. Yeah.
A lot of them coming from NCONUS. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I don't have many theories when it comes to this, but I think

Speaker 1 there are some elites that have put some

Speaker 1 desired end goals out there to people that work for them. or people that do their bidding.
And I think this is just a byproduct of those end goals needing to be met.

Speaker 1 Some of that's military-industrial complex, and some of that is

Speaker 1 another country wanting our economy to start kind of getting crippled a little bit. But I think that it's multifaceted.
And I think that anybody who comes up and says, oh, it's this one guy.

Speaker 1 It's this one guy at the World Economic Forum, or it's this one guy who does this thing. I don't think that's the case.

Speaker 1 I think a lot more of this is just a byproduct of companies needing money than people really understand.

Speaker 1 I think a lot of it is this just companies doing things and engineering outcomes where they can get money. It just so happens that this might be the end.

Speaker 1 But you hear people talk about the great reset and all that, which I'm no expert in any of those like international politics stuff.

Speaker 1 But that's terrifying to me to hear people talk about that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2 All right, Chase, we're back from the break. We're getting ready to talk about, you know, what

Speaker 2 all the division. You know, we hear divide and conquer.
We've

Speaker 2 gone through some of the division that we're seeing. Why, though? Why?

Speaker 2 What's the plan after all the division? Is it just a broken country?

Speaker 1 I think it is. I think that's the desired end state.

Speaker 2 That's what I think. I think it's just a nobody's going to come in here and occupy this and try to take over.

Speaker 1 With Operation American Freedom?

Speaker 2 There's so many guns. I mean,

Speaker 2 it would make all the places that I've been to look like a complete joke. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, nobody could come in here and occupy it, but you could disrupt it, turn us against each other, and then and then we have no relevance in the world. No influence, no relevance, nothing.

Speaker 1 There was a KGB guy. Do you remember this video? It was from the 90s, I think.

Speaker 1 Yuri something. Besmanov.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And he talked about that plan to destabilize and then replace the education system with a different education system, infiltrate college professors first and all of like the big thinkers of the society.

Speaker 1 And this was in the 90s and he's kind of describing the process we're going through right now today that was terrifying for me to watch man

Speaker 1 um but yeah i think that's the overall goal and i think that

Speaker 1 the the one thing that i've always

Speaker 1 i would say the biggest transformation i've ever made in my life was psychedelics was like going through psychedelic therapy And the one thing is like,

Speaker 1 it's not a big deal. It's not a big deal.
And that's like one of the biggest lessons that I've ever gotten from any time I've ever done psychedelics.

Speaker 1 And I think that's the approach that we've got to take with all of this like

Speaker 1 division and this rhetoric. And I think if you, if somebody tries out a social media fast and just for like

Speaker 1 20 days, try it out.

Speaker 1 And just don't go on social media. And it will change your life because we've got stuff like TikTok.
Now, do you know what the kids in China see on TikTok?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. They're solving math equations and physics and

Speaker 2 all educational. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Here it's all tits-ass booze, division, hate. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's porn. Violence.
Yeah. Violence.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 if that doesn't tell you exactly what's happening

Speaker 1 in the world,

Speaker 1 then

Speaker 1 you need to look somewhere else or you need to figure this out.

Speaker 1 If you look at if China has control of TikTok or Chinese interests have control of TikTok and we're seeing all of that stuff and they're seeing stuff that's fantastic for them and beneficial to them as a society, like you, that's a psyop.

Speaker 1 It's clear as day. It's not some theory.
It's obvious and it's like right in our faces.

Speaker 1 And it's as much as it's in our face as much as it was during COVID when we had people speaking from borrowed authority that we need to trust the science.

Speaker 1 Why aren't you trusting the science, Sean?

Speaker 1 Which put two masks on today. All of that kind of stuff that we endured, it was just so

Speaker 1 that's why so many people woke up because it was accidentally way too obvious.

Speaker 1 And I'm glad that it was.

Speaker 2 Do you think that there is

Speaker 2 I mean, are we done with the waking up period? Do you know what I'm getting at?

Speaker 2 I mean, it's, we've heard this for so long oh you need to wake up you need to wake up you're asleep you're asleep at the wheel you need to wake up you don't know what's going on i mean i feel like so much has happened in the past

Speaker 2 four five eight years that i'm i

Speaker 2 in my opinion the waking up was done a long time ago i mean do you think people are still

Speaker 2 waking up realizing they've been lied to that you can't trust the government you can't trust the institutions you can't trust the mainstream media, you can't trust, you can't trust much of anything these days.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 in part of it, you know, I understand, too, I mean,

Speaker 2 entire generations have just had

Speaker 2 their world flipped completely upside down because they had put so much trust in institutions and our government and media.

Speaker 1 I think at a certain level,

Speaker 1 like people like my parents, probably your parents, place a large amount of trust in the government and a large amount of trust in the news because that was the only source for so long.

Speaker 1 And it just became habitual. It became based in identity.
Like if you don't trust what they're saying, what the FDA is telling you, who are you going to trust? So like I hear that from like my dad.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I think that's woven into identity.

Speaker 1 But I think that. I don't think the waking up period is done at all.
I think they're going to go twice as hard.

Speaker 1 And I think within the next year, if we look at standard PSYOPs, if the PSYOP isn't working, there's either A, double down or B, stop.

Speaker 1 And I think they're going to double down.

Speaker 2 Do you think they're going to double down? Oh, yes.

Speaker 1 And I think it's going to happen within the next 12 months.

Speaker 1 So.

Speaker 2 Why do you think it's going to happen within the next 12 months?

Speaker 1 There's too many people waking up. When Elon bought Twitter and a lot of this stuff, there's tons of misinformation and all that stuff all over social media.

Speaker 1 But I think that enabled so much data to come out that people are going to start saying,

Speaker 1 just a little bit of a backpedal, just pump the brakes a little bit on my trust in institutions and things like that. And I think it's enough that more people are going to wake up.

Speaker 1 We're going to have a lot more people in the next year because I think it's going to get a lot more obvious.

Speaker 2 I mean, what are some of the psyops you see going on today?

Speaker 2 Let's bring up the alien UFO UAP shit. Is that a psyop? Do you think that's a psyop?

Speaker 1 I think.

Speaker 2 Is that building a psyop? I mean, we've heard about Project Bluebeam. I think

Speaker 2 that's the false flag alien invasion that's supposedly coming.

Speaker 2 I'm not fucking throwing it out there like it's some crazy conspiracy idea because at this point, I'm like, shit, probably.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it would just make sense. Like when the New Jersey drones were happening, I think right before the election or whenever that was,

Speaker 1 That was insane. And I put a video out on that and how we are in the middle of a psyop.
But it's not the craft.

Speaker 1 I'm not sitting here saying like these little tic tacs and all that stuff are a bunch of psyops. The response to it, I think, is a psyop.

Speaker 1 How we see people online responding to it. We see people going out on podcasts and stuff that have talking points from the government.

Speaker 1 And if you have someone that has talking points from the government, that's a spokesperson, not a whistleblower. It's very different.

Speaker 1 And so if I'm sitting here and I say, well, I can't say this, but I can tell you this one thing, that's government release of, that's a controlled government release of information,

Speaker 1 in my estimation.

Speaker 1 And so, yeah, I think the public perception management, which is the first step of PSYOPS, if you remember, is perception and then context, right?

Speaker 1 That we're managing the way that our perception of the UFO, UAP thing is being managed is absolutely a psyop.

Speaker 2 So they are creating the perception.

Speaker 1 Yes. Correct? Yes.

Speaker 2 Creating the perception, and then

Speaker 2 they're going to give us the next thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you had a retired admiral, I think, here.

Speaker 2 Tim Gallaudet. Yeah.

Speaker 1 A couple weeks ago. He was talking about that email that got deleted.

Speaker 2 Wait a minute.

Speaker 1 different admiral he was the oceanography guy Tim Gallaudet you probably saw a clip yeah

Speaker 1 talking about an email that got deleted about the the tic-tac ufo thing that somehow got leaked and

Speaker 1 i've seen so many people come out and say like i'm allowed to say this and i'm not allowed to say that and that's not what a whistleblower does and I get it that there was a huge example made out of Snowden, but I think that the way that we're, if our perception is being managed, then we are in a SIO.

Speaker 1 Guaranteed we're in a SIO.

Speaker 1 So all this started with a guy named Edward Bernays.

Speaker 2 Edward Bernays.

Speaker 1 Edward Bernays.

Speaker 1 He was the guy that invented the term PR.

Speaker 1 And he changed the term from propaganda to public relations. He just changed the word propaganda.

Speaker 1 He was the guy, he's the reason our butter or margarine got dyed yellow. He's the reason that we think bacon is part of an American breakfast because the pork industry needed to sell more bacon.

Speaker 1 He's the reason the Department of War was changed to the Department of Defense. He's the reason that women started smoking Virginia slims back in the 70s when it was inappropriate for women to smoke.

Speaker 1 So he organized a parade called Torches of Freedom, where women would go and smoke in the street and just say F you to everybody.

Speaker 1 And just he changed it, changed the perception as like this is a symbol of freedom and I'm gonna smoke so he was the the biggest propagandist in

Speaker 1 probably in the last four or five hundred years like in the world so he he manipulated a lot of economic stuff he had a lot to do with the United Fruit Company which is down in South America which you may have heard of in Panama but this guy

Speaker 1 invented all of these processes to shape perception and change how how people behave. And he was actually Sigmund Freud's nephew.

Speaker 1 And he wrote a lot about this propaganda stuff. And his best-selling book that he wrote about all of this is called Crystallizing Public Opinion.

Speaker 1 And in this book, he talks about grabbing a hold of somebody's focus, establishing some kind of authority. And I'm using my own words here, but it's that same exact process.

Speaker 1 So if you think of that fate model that we talked about, F-A-T-E, focus, authority, tribe, and emotion, that's our hardware.

Speaker 1 There's another set of influencing factors for the human side of the brain, the software part.

Speaker 1 But that controls our hardware. And with everybody, we have all the same hardware, identical, almost identical hardware.
And that's all you need to take control of a human brain.

Speaker 1 It's like, can I establish the focus? Are they doing that with the UFOs? Did they harness our focus? Are there people of authority coming out? Is there a sense of tribe involved with that?

Speaker 1 There's UFO communities. There's subreddits.
But if I like a couple of UFO things on the internet, I'm going to get fed like crazy amounts of UFO stuff online. And then there's emotional stuff.

Speaker 1 And then we have like the emotional anticipation of some of these videos that says

Speaker 1 John Smith is going live tonight at seven. He's going to expose everything.
New secrets you've never heard before. And of course, nothing happens.

Speaker 1 So it's if I can harness the power of FATE, then I can control a

Speaker 1 total society.

Speaker 2 What's some of the most successful PSYOPs you've seen conducted that are complete now?

Speaker 2 That you could maybe dive us in, you know, that we could dive into and you could explain, you know, from start to finish

Speaker 2 what the end product was.

Speaker 1 Our school system was one of the biggest and how westernized systems of elementary, middle, and high school were organized. When the U.S.

Speaker 1 was first getting started, this guy, I can't remember his name, but he was in charge of this stuff.

Speaker 1 So he is going to be the first head of the Department of Education and create this education system that's going to be nationwide. He goes

Speaker 1 and learns, he goes, he flies to Europe and learns from all these people who developed something called the Prussian Education System,

Speaker 1 which

Speaker 1 in the Department of Education's founding documents,

Speaker 1 which were some written by this guy, was turn schools into factories that make

Speaker 1 good workers. I'm paraphrasing that, but the word factories was there.
Schools just a factory to manufacture people for the workforce.

Speaker 1 and people that are obedient and all of this. So the Prussian education system was meant so that workers are manufactured and people didn't question the king.
That was a big thing.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 if I have to get a whole country to adopt a system that's probably not in your best interest,

Speaker 1 then I've got to do some work with PR. I've got to work with this Edward Bernays guy, maybe, or I've got to do something to get people to adopt that belief.

Speaker 1 So this system was made like standing up in the morning was the first thing we do every day. I pledge allegiance to the flag every day.
And then we sit down, we're told what to do, where to sit.

Speaker 1 We don't really do a lot of creative thinking. Can you memorize this and can you spit it back out? Can I teach you this one thing? Can you spit it back out?

Speaker 1 Let me teach you geometry so you can cut wood or so that you can square off a corner when you become a kitchen remodeling guy, whatever that is.

Speaker 1 That, the adoption, the way that our country adopted that is one of the most successful PSYOPs ever. And I mean,

Speaker 1 you eat pretty healthy, I would imagine. And

Speaker 1 do you eat based on the food pyramid?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 Where you get like nine loaves of bread a day or whatever it tells you to eat. No.
That's another great example of that, where like it's still standing. It's still there.

Speaker 1 And we know that it's not the right way to do it. And we know that different people need different diets, but there's still a food pyramid there.
And that was from Edward Bernays, again,

Speaker 1 who kind of invented that. So all of these programs that we consider parts of our everyday life and we consider like, oh, that's an American tradition.
A lot of those were

Speaker 1 originated through some kind of psyop.

Speaker 1 So when it comes to like, am I in a psyop?

Speaker 1 We have to define that term a little more narrowly because if you're watching an infomercial, you're in a psyop. So everything's trying to influence your behavior to buy something or do this.

Speaker 1 But I would say, like,

Speaker 1 when it comes to commercials and stuff, those are all psyop. And all advertising in Western society has two goals.
Number one is to make you feel like you're not enough yet.

Speaker 1 And number two is to make you compare yourself to other people.

Speaker 1 And if it does that well enough, then you'll go get it. And if a commercial can take control of fate, all of your factors on the fate model, then it'll get you to take action every single time.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 just to give you an example, like,

Speaker 1 have you heard of the Milgram experiment? No.

Speaker 1 So, this happened in Yale. I'll give you the short version,

Speaker 1 1962, I think.

Speaker 1 World War II is over. These Nazis are on trial in Nuremberg, and they're asked, Why did you do what you did? And they're saying, I was just following orders.
So, this guy at Yale,

Speaker 1 Dr. Stanley Milgram, runs this experiment.
Will people just follow orders? So let's say you volunteer for this experiment. You respond to an admin paper

Speaker 1 that says, we'll give you a free bologna sandwich, lunch voucher, whatever at the cafeteria and 20 bucks.

Speaker 1 So you show up and it says we're doing a study on learning and the effects of punishment on learning.

Speaker 2 I think I do know about this. Is this the shock therapy? The shock thing.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Go ahead. Go ahead.

Speaker 1 So they've essentially got a guy in the room right beside you strapped up to a machine that's going to shock him. And they sit you down in a machine and your job is to read off some words.

Speaker 1 And when he gets a question wrong, you shock his ass. And then you move the shocker up, shock him higher voltage for every wrong answer.
You keep moving it up.

Speaker 1 And at the end of this little shocking machine, it says 450 volts XXX danger severe shock.

Speaker 1 Two-thirds of the way through this shocking thing, the guy in the other room, you can hear him screaming, you can hear him yelling when you shock him because the thing's painful.

Speaker 1 He's an actor, he's not ever getting shocked. But two-thirds of the way through, he stops and he says, I don't want to do this anymore.
I want out of here. I have a heart condition.

Speaker 1 I don't want to do this anymore. And you look back at the guy running the thing in the lab coat.
The guy in the lab coat says, it's important that you keep going.

Speaker 1 The experiment has to continue. The experiment requires that you continue.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 well, you keep going. And around like the 400, 350 volt mark, the guy in the other room stops making all sound and stops responding to questions.
He's not even answering the questions anymore.

Speaker 1 And you turn around to the guy in the lab coat. The guy in the lab coat says, any non-answer must be treated as an incorrect answer.
Please continue. Keep going.

Speaker 1 And then these people would get to the end, this 450 volts, and they'd shock him and be like, well, that's it.

Speaker 1 We reached the end. The guy in the lab coat says, please continue until you've read

Speaker 1 all of the questions on the quiz. So this guy, they think, might be dead in the other room.
They're just keeping going at this 450 volts in the other room.

Speaker 1 So before the experiment started, these psychologists, psychiatrists got together and formed a hypothesis.

Speaker 1 And they said, who's going to go all the way?

Speaker 1 And they said, 0.8%

Speaker 1 or 0.08% of people will go all the way. 67% of people went all the way.

Speaker 2 Holy shit.

Speaker 1 And they redid the experiment. They said, oh, well, there's an inherent belief of safety because it's in a college.

Speaker 1 They've done it in apartment buildings and basements and office buildings with college educated people, high school educated people, all income levels. About 67% of people will go.

Speaker 1 What do you think that is?

Speaker 1 It's

Speaker 1 two factors. It's number one, our inherent obedience to authority or perceived authority.
Guys in a lab coat, I'm at this thing, the guy's in charge, the guy's tall, whatever it is.

Speaker 1 If we perceive authority, that will kind of overrule us. If you go back to our tribe days, if I disobeyed my tribal leader,

Speaker 1 that means no food, no sex, and no kids, no DNA survival. That's a big deal.
Second, and one that they didn't talk about, this is my theory,

Speaker 1 is novelty.

Speaker 1 So when something breaks from what we expect to happen, so like you've done a shitload of podcasts in here, but like if this wall started opening up and this was a garage door and you didn't know it until just now, you would freak out.

Speaker 1 No matter how much I kept talking, you would keep looking at that, right? Because it's brand new and it's unexpected.

Speaker 1 So when things happen that are new and unexpected, all of our focus is generated, which is the first part of the fate model.

Speaker 1 Anything new generates focus. So for our tribal ancestors, this is when they're walking past a bush every day, and one day there's a big stick that snaps behind that bush.

Speaker 1 All of their focus goes onto this unexpected new information.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 in the Milgram experiment, this is a person responding to an ad they've never responded to, driving to a building they've never been in, in a situation they've never been in, meeting people they've never met, sitting in front of the shocking machine they've never seen before.

Speaker 1 Every single aspect of it was brand new, which maintained a ton of focus. So focus is, you can manufacture focus with novelty.

Speaker 1 Anything unexpected kind of breaks you out of your script and tells your brain to say, whoa,

Speaker 1 I'm not able to predict what's happening next. I need to pay attention.
So like we have a little script for driving our car.

Speaker 1 And the moment something unusual happens, all of our focus kind of drifts back. This is when we can drive past our exit or stop sign or whatever.

Speaker 1 So I think that one thing that Milgram experiment does is it shows us

Speaker 1 how rapidly we can be compromised. And people, and this is in like 25 to 40 minutes, you'll kill a stranger.
The average, the majority of people will kill a stranger in under 45 minutes.

Speaker 1 And 250 volts is enough to kill somebody, depending on amps and other stuff.

Speaker 1 That was 100% of people. 100%.

Speaker 2 That was 100% of people.

Speaker 1 Went up to 250. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Which is terrifying.

Speaker 1 But it shows us that we're all running the same hardware and it's easy to hack. And the more we're aware of what's happening around us and like this is probably leading me in a certain direction.

Speaker 1 Why am I feeling this way? The more aware we can be of that stuff.

Speaker 1 We can be a little bit more in control. We're never fully in control because we don't have the antivirus stuff in our head.

Speaker 2 What are the other signs? I mean,

Speaker 2 what would some of the other signs be that you are in the midst of a SOAP? I mean, first thing you said was

Speaker 2 people being silenced. Yep.

Speaker 2 I think

Speaker 2 that's a big one. What are some of the other signs?

Speaker 1 Brand new and unexpected things happening, like the drones in New Jersey, right?

Speaker 1 So let's go back to the fate model, focus. So is something new and weird happening that's capturing my focus?

Speaker 1 Are there celebrities tweeting about it and people that are high up in the government talking about it? There's authority. Am I seeing large groups of people start talking about this one thing?

Speaker 1 Or am I being made to think that a lot of people think a certain way?

Speaker 1 There's tribe.

Speaker 1 And then am I getting called to action and getting installed with this new identity that makes me feel intellectually or morally superior? And there's the emotion.

Speaker 1 So is my, that little fate model, is that being targeted somehow?

Speaker 1 And most of my income comes from jury selection and consulting on trials and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 And the one thing that I, that I teach attorneys is if you want to persuade an entire jury, the only thing that you've got to do is capture their focus, have more authority than the other attorney, foster a sense of tribalism and us versus them.

Speaker 1 And when you say the word us, you get the jury to think of you and them as one unit and then get some kind of emotion in there during your closing arguments or during one of the depositions and you'll win the case.

Speaker 1 I have a 200% money-back guarantee when I do trial consulting. Wow.

Speaker 1 Wow. And it's easy to do if you just know how to trigger all those responses in the human brain.
It's not hard to hack.

Speaker 2 How many people that are involved? I mean, how many people involved in a PSIOP do you think actually realize they're involved? So, you know, you had mentioned, you know,

Speaker 2 UAP encounter. Are there celebrities

Speaker 2 talking about it, tweeting about it, posting about it? Are there government officials talking about it, posts about it, tweeting about it, doing interviews about it? I mean,

Speaker 2 if you throw a UAP up right now, everybody's going to tweet it. Everybody's going to tweet about it.
Everybody's going to post about it. Everybody's going to talk about it.
Right. I mean,

Speaker 2 those people don't know they're a part of it, but it's going. I mean, whoever's, whoever, you know, if it is a PSYOP, I mean,

Speaker 2 you know, everybody's going to

Speaker 2 do it. I mean, just, for example, by the time this comes out,

Speaker 2 this Shield AI's episode will be out already. They're releasing this,

Speaker 2 they're basically releasing the future of air warfare. They brought a model here.
It was

Speaker 2 a really fucking big model. It was in the front yard, like a damn UAP.
It's not supposed to be out until 21st of October.

Speaker 2 They unveil it. I tell them, I'm like, hey, you

Speaker 2 might want to put a tarp over this thing because

Speaker 2 we're out of the boonies and if anybody thinks this is a UAP, you know, I'll make you go viral, but that's really going to make you go fucking viral

Speaker 2 in the way that you don't want to be. You know what I mean? And so

Speaker 2 that could have created, you know what I mean, a frenzy of, oh, there's a UAP out in middle Tennessee.

Speaker 2 You see what I'm saying? And nobody would have,

Speaker 2 or I could have done that on purpose and everybody that's posting about it, you know, especially if you posted it.

Speaker 1 Because that would trigger the authority.

Speaker 1 Right. And then, because the tribe's going to be there because it's a weird thing.
It'll generate a a little bit of focus and tribe.

Speaker 1 But then you get involved and you say, yeah, I was there and I saw it. So now there's authority in there.

Speaker 1 The only thing missing is that emotion. Then we get into the tribalized part of everything.
Like

Speaker 1 I believe it.

Speaker 1 This guy doesn't.

Speaker 1 He's a plant.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? So we see so many of those things that

Speaker 1 we get to a point of apathy at a certain time. So I think, I can't remember who wrote the book, but it was called The Death of Outrage,

Speaker 1 to where we get exposed to so much content designed to inflame our

Speaker 1 mental state that outrage starts dying and going away. And that's the point we're at right now that we need an extreme amount of novelty in order to spike that wave.

Speaker 1 It's got to be higher than normal because there's so much novelty and bizarre shit that people are exposed to on a regular basis that the spike has to go higher.

Speaker 1 So, look for the high spikes is the biggest thing to really look for.

Speaker 2 I mean, high spikes recently, Charlie Kirk assassination. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, I think there are a lot of potential psyops around that,

Speaker 2 or maybe truth. I don't think we'll ever really find out.
Yeah. But, I mean, what do you think about that? Did you see anything?

Speaker 1 There's some psyops going around all kinds of. That was probably a way to control information or send a message to somebody.

Speaker 1 I don't know much about the whole situation, but I've seen people online that are digging into it, and it looks really messed up. Like, there are some crazy details that even I,

Speaker 1 I would maybe consider myself an operator, and there is no way anybody I've ever met could take a rifle apart that fast.

Speaker 1 That takes time. There's a lot of threads on barrels like that, and a lot of threads on suppressors and extended barrels.
That would take a whole lot of time. There's a whole lot of weird details.

Speaker 1 What about you?

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's a lot of weird details. I mean, I don't think the entrance wound looks like an entrance wound at all.

Speaker 1 Do you?

Speaker 2 It looked... It's like a fucking exit wound.

Speaker 1 It looked like it bounced off of a plate

Speaker 1 right here. It looked like there was a ceramic plate right here.

Speaker 1 I only saw this when it happened. I haven't dug into it.

Speaker 2 There's this theory that the microphone is what did it. Have you heard about that? No.
Have you heard?

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's a theory that there were some type of explosives and maybe some type of a projectile

Speaker 2 planted on the microphone.

Speaker 1 Whoa.

Speaker 2 That's supposed, you know, that's maybe not. I don't know.
These are all theories. You know, this is stuff that I'm seeing.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's a lot of weird shit going on around about it. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Are the fucking conspiracy theories a psyop? I mean, you see what I'm, it's to to create a certain narrative. I mean,

Speaker 2 who knows? I don't fucking know. I don't even know where to look anymore.
I mean, the mainstream isn't going to,

Speaker 2 they're not going to go against whatever the government wants to push out, you know, and then, and then on the other side, you've got everybody and

Speaker 2 that's diving into the different scenarios. But I mean, they're getting huge numbers talking about it.
And so it's, can I put all the confidence into that?

Speaker 2 I don't fucking know where to look.

Speaker 1 I did a video about it on my YouTube channel,

Speaker 1 and the whole video was about the PSYOP aspect of it.

Speaker 1 Not the assassination itself, but how the assassination is the result of this division and this massive push outside of this midline ground of being exposed to these people in politics on either side.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I think there's a lot of psyops there. But I think the one thing that people need to realize is if I go into a Best Buy right now to go get a laptop

Speaker 1 and let's say I get a Windows unit and they're like, oh, do you want this antivirus thing? And I was like, no,

Speaker 1 I can't. My computer can't get viruses.
I am more vulnerable thinking that I'm immune than somebody who understands how easy it is to hack into a human being and actually pays attention.

Speaker 1 during their day. It doesn't mean you need to be paranoid or anything like that.
It just needs, you need to know when is my focus being captured? When am I being shown authority?

Speaker 1 When am I being kind of grounded in tribalism? And when is my emotion being triggered or set off by something?

Speaker 1 And if you've got that, then that's the closest thing to kind of antivirus that we got.

Speaker 2 Interesting. Interesting.
What did you, I mean, what were you talking about in the video about Charlie Kirk's assassination?

Speaker 1 It wasn't about Kirk.

Speaker 2 It was about the political violence as a result of the

Speaker 1 psyops.

Speaker 1 And the result is that you've heard of the bystander effect before, that cities, if we have apathy for everyone around us, because our brains cannot pay attention to a city of 3 million people, we can't care about everybody.

Speaker 1 That's why you get closer to cities, people drive like assholes because they don't care. You go in the country and everybody's nice to each other because we depend on our reputation.

Speaker 1 In a city, you don't. You will never see those people again.
So in many ways,

Speaker 1 being around that many people can start to create some little bits of human apathy where I don't have any empathy to other people anymore.

Speaker 1 I can't have empathy for everyone if I live in Dallas or Chicago. That's too much.

Speaker 1 My life would be, I would be suffering depression every day. There's somebody getting stabbed.
There's a car accident that happened last night.

Speaker 1 You can't have it. But in a city, it's just so overwhelming that I think we are getting to a point of showing these little

Speaker 1 tiny bits of

Speaker 1 sociopathy around a lot of these cities.

Speaker 2 Sociopathy. Yes.

Speaker 1 What's that? Just somebody becoming a sociopath.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Becoming immune to feeling any kind of empathy for other people. And this happened in New York in the 60s.
There was a woman named Kitty Genovese.

Speaker 1 She was stabbed 30-something times over the course of several minutes and screamed. And there were somewhere around

Speaker 1 35 witnesses and the police weren't called

Speaker 1 because everybody thought someone else might call the police. I don't know what it is.
Somebody else is going to handle it. And they went back into their house and she died on the street.

Speaker 1 And maybe somebody called the police a little later or something, but this happens in these large cities. I'm not saying go live in the woods and start a farmer's Amish market somewhere.

Speaker 1 I'm saying like...

Speaker 1 You have to be aware that a lot of what's happening now is we're seeing people celebrating the death of a public figure.

Speaker 1 That's sociopathy. That is the beginning of the complete loss of empathy for other people because of just weaponized identity and weaponized cognitive dissonance.

Speaker 2 Do you think this was all done on purpose? I mean, so, you know,

Speaker 2 when we see

Speaker 2 tweets, news, people talking about this, you know, on especially with the Kirk assassination, I mean,

Speaker 2 a lot of people are saying this is the result of, you know, this guy's a Nazi. This guy's a

Speaker 2 fascist. This guy's, you know, is that what it stems from, or is it the

Speaker 2 desensitation, whatever?

Speaker 2 I mean, the week before that, right,

Speaker 2 we saw the black guy in the subway stab a Ukrainian girl, what, three or four times in the neck?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Super graphic shit.
I mean,

Speaker 2 this is what I'm talking about with the algorithm cage, too. I mean, that happened.

Speaker 2 every fucking post i saw was that over and over and over i've seen some pretty gruesome shit throughout my career but i don't want to continue seeing that stuff a week later charlie kirk getting shot in the neck you know every single post for days was

Speaker 2 that yeah you know and and so you have you have you know this is the end of democracy this is this guy's a nazi this guy's a fascist this is you know what i mean you have all of the

Speaker 2 people just dumping gas on the flame that way.

Speaker 2 And then on the other fact, you know, you have the, and you fucking see it. I mean,

Speaker 2 not one person on that damn subway train, at least not on the video, stood up and did a damn thing about it. You mean, you had Daniel Penny fucking choke that guy out in New York City.

Speaker 2 He's the only one that acted. I mean, time and time again.
This is

Speaker 2 yeah, you know, and and and and you see, I mean, this is another thing that happens to me on X all the time. You know, you see these street fights or

Speaker 2 police,

Speaker 2 what, just some type of an altercation, some type of violence.

Speaker 2 And if you actually watch, if you click on it, even if you don't click on it, just sits on your, if you slow the scroll down and you're like, oh, what happens?

Speaker 2 Dude, the next thing, it's just all people getting the shit beat out of them, people getting jumped, black people beating up white people, white people beating up black people. Fucking

Speaker 2 stirs it up. You look at one thing of people looting a store in California.
The next thing you know, the next 20 posts are fucking people.

Speaker 2 And then you start to think, like, holy shit, this demographic of people, this is all the fuck they do. They just loot,

Speaker 2 fuck things up, and

Speaker 2 creates that division. So I guess what I'm asking is this, is it all by design? Or is this, is this,

Speaker 2 is this a byproduct of just,

Speaker 2 is this just happening naturally? Is it by design or is it happening naturally and this is just a byproduct of it?

Speaker 1 I think with the algorithm, it's a byproduct.

Speaker 1 And I think it's happening by design from media.

Speaker 1 And I think it's maybe desired by a lot of people. And I wasn't going to talk about this at all, but there's a protocol to get somebody to confess to a crime.
And it's a four-step protocol.

Speaker 1 And when I teach interrogation, this is the way that we teach it. And it's also the way that you can get someone to do something that's not in their best interest.

Speaker 1 So I studied this for a long time. All the ways you can use hypnosis or

Speaker 1 conversations or movement or having authority. All these little things that we can do to make someone do something that's not in their best interest.
So we train an intelligence officer.

Speaker 1 He's got to go talk somebody into,

Speaker 1 you know, turning over secrets or something where he could face the death penalty or he could could face jail time for doing what he's going to do.

Speaker 1 So, the way that you get someone to confess to a crime, and

Speaker 1 I promise this is going to relate back to what you're talking about, is

Speaker 1 socialize,

Speaker 1 minimize, rationalize, and project.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 those four things,

Speaker 1 if I socialize the issue first, so let me give you the crime example, and then I'll unpack it into social media. In a crime example,

Speaker 1 let's say I'm talking to you and

Speaker 1 you're charged with robbing a store. You took $1,000 from a 7-Eleven somewhere.

Speaker 1 So socializing would be, you know, Sean,

Speaker 1 I think once people understand who you are and what you're going through in your life, that what you did is going to make perfect sense to everybody and people are going to understand.

Speaker 1 Minimize is next.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I'm a detective here and I talk to people who take millions of dollars all the time. I talk to murderers and homicide victims.
I talk to families of homicide victims.

Speaker 1 What we're talking about here isn't a big deal.

Speaker 1 What you did is not a big deal. You made a mistake.
And I just don't want you to think it's a big deal.

Speaker 1 I talk to people who do this all the time and they get over it and it's something people get through very quickly. It's not a big deal.
Rationalize is the next next step.

Speaker 1 So we did socialize, minimize. Now we have rationalize.

Speaker 1 And the rationalize part, depending on what it is,

Speaker 1 I'll rationalize the crime. Sometimes you blame the victim, depending on what crime it is.
But

Speaker 1 I know you were working at that 7-Eleven.

Speaker 1 I've looked at the pay. He's paying you guys jack shit.
He's not taking care of you guys. And I know you have an aunt that is in the hospital and her chemotherapy bills are piling up.
And

Speaker 1 I think that you did this for the right reason.

Speaker 1 And then project.

Speaker 1 And at the end of the day, this isn't your fault. You reacted in a way that a human reacts in a situation that you were in.
And anybody would have done what you would have done.

Speaker 1 So that's how you get a confession. So that's the little process to get a confession there.

Speaker 1 And when we look at social media, am I seeing crime socialized and shared rampantly as if it's like good content? So I'm seeing a socialize.

Speaker 1 I'm seeing a minimize. It's not a big deal.

Speaker 1 I'm seeing a rationalize. I'm seeing a lot of rationalizing going on.
So socialize. People are going to understand.
Everybody gets it. Everybody agrees with you.
Minimize. It's not a big deal.

Speaker 1 Rationalize, it makes total sense. And then project.
It's not your fault.

Speaker 1 And that interrogation formula to get someone to do something that's not in their best interest is

Speaker 1 what we're seeing on social media, exactly what you were talking about.

Speaker 2 Damn.

Speaker 2 And you think that social media is just a byproduct of the algorithm? You think mainstream media, this is all done, it is on purpose, it is by design.

Speaker 1 I do, and it's so effective.

Speaker 1 And it's not just let me divide everybody. It's also, how do we sell these cowboy boots for this ad that's going to come up from this one company.
It's also that.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I have to get you down this rabbit hole far enough that you're not going to click off.

Speaker 1 But then I also have to isolate you away from things that are going to piss you off enough to where you're going to leave the app.

Speaker 1 And I have to kind of navigate that

Speaker 1 little road there.

Speaker 1 And I am a victim. The watch that I'm wearing right now is from an Instagram ad.

Speaker 1 So I'm not immutant to any of this stuff.

Speaker 1 But you're seeing so much of that stuff. It's socialize, rationalize, minimize, and project.
It's not your fault.

Speaker 1 And that is a recipe for something that's not in your best interest.

Speaker 1 And it's

Speaker 1 terrible.

Speaker 2 Do you think we're going to see an uptick in political violence? A lot of people think that was a turning point.

Speaker 1 I do think that's going to happen because we're not seeing a lot of people coming toward the middle. Maybe there's something happening that I'm not seeing.
I'm not on social media.

Speaker 1 I mean, I have social media accounts and stuff, but I'm not on there. It's not on my phone.
It's not on my iPad. And I have to log into the website if I want to do it.

Speaker 1 But I'm definitely thinking that everything that we're seeing right now is made to set something up.

Speaker 1 And this did not look like an amateur i will i will say that you're an operator you've you've spent some time over there doing this stuff it didn't look like an amateur did any of that stuff

Speaker 1 so it looked like it looks like there there's something's being set up

Speaker 1 but if you go back on that formula

Speaker 1 the way that an infomercial works

Speaker 1 is to socialize the product to you, to minimize the cost and to minimize how big of a deal deal it is to make the purchase, to rationalize how to make that purchase and say that it's only three easy payments of $19.99 or whatever it is, and then project.

Speaker 1 Like most people don't own this, and the only reason they don't own it is because they didn't know about it before.

Speaker 2 Let's take a quick break.

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Speaker 2 All right, Chase, we're back from the break. I want to get into some hypnosis stuff with you, but I'd like to kind of wrap up the psyops stuff right off the

Speaker 2 before we dive into that here, real quick. So, you know, there was a couple of things just left on the outline I wanted to hit.
One was

Speaker 2 manipulation tactics foreign governments use to make normal people do violent things. I mean, can you elaborate on that a little bit?

Speaker 2 Would this go into bot farms and stuff like that as well?

Speaker 1 Yeah, so what the goal of a bot farm is to inflate tribe and authority. And it could be focus if something is novel or unique enough.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 a bot farm can do that. And that's like, let's say there's something massively unique or different or interesting.
Then

Speaker 1 it's so pervasive that a few authority figures or celebrities retweet it or repost it somewhere.

Speaker 1 And then there's so many accounts that it has the appearance of looking like other people in my tribe are liking this and it's normalized to these other people in my tribe, so it must be popular.

Speaker 1 Therefore, without me, there's no logic to this. Our brain's not logically going through these steps.

Speaker 1 We automatically accept things that we think the tribe is accepting, which is how these like weird, stupid ass ideas spread so quickly because we have the illusion of lots of people doing this one.

Speaker 1 behavior.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 What are some things they would project to to get people to do violent things? I mean, anything outside of what we've already talked about about division and

Speaker 2 aligning with a certain tribe and all of that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so if I wanted you,

Speaker 1 let's say I want to weaponize Sean.

Speaker 1 I'm going to show you videos of

Speaker 1 bad group of people doing really, really bad things all the time. And the more I can show that to you,

Speaker 1 you're building up hatred and all this other stuff. But what am I really shifting? What's the second step of PSYOPS that we talked about is shifting context.

Speaker 1 The only time that you'll really want to kill someone, if you've never killed anybody before, let's say

Speaker 1 John that works at H ⁇ R Block, like we need to weaponize that guy. He has to be in a situation where he thinks he is preventing death or violence.

Speaker 1 And if I can shift that context into a violence scenario, your brain is already put into a place of this is a context where violence is acceptable and normal.

Speaker 2 Oh, God. Okay.

Speaker 1 So it's perception, then context. And then it's a PCP model.
It's what we teach at NCI. You shift perception, then context, and then it equals permission.
Perception, context, and permission. Okay.

Speaker 1 Those three things.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 Learned a lot of stuff here.

Speaker 2 What is the neuroscience behind SIOP?

Speaker 1 It is

Speaker 1 the actual neuroscience is that it's weaponizing part of our brain that's looking around to see what everyone else is doing and to see if I should change.

Speaker 1 There's a part of our brain called the locus ceruleus.

Speaker 1 This is how we detect facial expressions in other people and whether or not you know in a grocery store whether someone's going to punch you or try to offer you a coupon or something.

Speaker 1 But this is our sensor for is everything going as planned? Is everything going as it should right now? And the moment that stuff goes off, then we have novelty.

Speaker 1 So our brain says, whoop, there's something new. I need to focus on that.
So that little focusing part of our brain is called the reticular formation.

Speaker 1 And that's the part that's active like when you're buying a white Toyota tundra and you look at them on the internet for a month and then you finally buy a white Toyota tundra, you're going to see them everywhere.

Speaker 1 Because your brain, since you've been looking at it, says, oh, the human thinks that this is important, so I'm going to search for it everywhere I go.

Speaker 1 So that's our brain's little focusing mechanism.

Speaker 1 So if I've...

Speaker 2 Is there a way to shut that off?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 I would say definitively no.

Speaker 1 So if I have told the mammalian part of my brain over and over again that this one thing is important, then the brain will just look for it everywhere.

Speaker 1 Like there's no, it's not like everyone went out and bought a tundra at the same time as you. It's that you told your reticular formation or reticular activating system that that thing was important.

Speaker 1 And the brain said, okay, Sean's looking at this one thing. I'm going to search for it.
I'm going to find it everywhere. Which also means that at the end of the day,

Speaker 1 maybe somebody comes home and they're like, hey, I saw 17 other tundras on the road just on my way home from work. It's insane.
I didn't realize everybody had one.

Speaker 1 But you'll never be able to tell somebody how many Toyota Corollas you saw on the road. because your brain wasn't searching for them.
So

Speaker 1 a lot of times our experience of the world is not really reality.

Speaker 1 Our experience is what our reticular formation thinks is important and what it's searching for, and it will just kind of delete everything else.

Speaker 1 So, our definition of the world is our definition of the reticular formation's priorities.

Speaker 2 Very interesting. Very interesting.

Speaker 2 What

Speaker 2 can you explain the connection between cults

Speaker 2 and brainwashing techniques?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 brainwashing follows a four-step formula.

Speaker 1 And that is it spells out the word fear.

Speaker 1 So we had fate earlier, now we have fear. And that's

Speaker 1 focus, emotion, agitation, and repetition.

Speaker 1 So I'm going to gain your focus with tons of new novel stuff. I'm going to get you in and take you through this quiz or this personality quiz.

Speaker 1 I'm going to get you in and take you to this candlelight ceremony that's kind of soft and

Speaker 1 kind.

Speaker 1 Then an emotion happens. Now we have love bombing or now you have to go through some trial or tribulation, some initiation.
Then agitation. Now I have to disrupt patterns in your life.

Speaker 1 So if you normally do one thing, I'm going to tell you to do something different in your life. You're going to have to come in here every other day.
So I'm going to agitate your schedule.

Speaker 1 I might agitate your social circle and say, you don't need to disconnect from all those friends. So I'm going to do something to make your brain, it's novelty, just like what we've been talking about.

Speaker 1 So, I'm going to inject as much novelty in your life as possible to agitate your brain so that it's brand new. I can rewire your brain because of that agitation.

Speaker 1 And then, the final step of brainwashing is repetition. So, it's working the same way that you would brainwash anybody, it's the exact same way that cults work.
Gain the focus,

Speaker 1 get them into an emotional state, and we talked about this at the very beginning of the show: that fractionation state, up and down, up and down.

Speaker 1 And they go down a little deeper every single time, which is very similar to hypnosis.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 then I get the agitation. I'm going to disrupt your life.

Speaker 1 So like if you want to change your life, somebody out there, like I'm going to set goals, I'm going to make a million dollars this month or, you know, whatever the goal is.

Speaker 1 I need to get that to myself. I'm going to brainwash myself using the exact same formula.
So it's not like it's a bad formula. I'm going to harness my focus and where it goes through.

Speaker 1 I'm going to target all the emotions that I need to get. I'm going to get pumped and motivated and all these things.
I'm going to get negatively motivated away from what I don't want.

Speaker 1 I'm going to agitate my life to tell my brain that something is very different as much as possible.

Speaker 1 Maybe I'll paint a room differently. Maybe I'll rearrange the furniture.
Maybe I'll buy a new car. Maybe I'll shift my wardrobe around.
Maybe I'll brush my teeth with my left hand.

Speaker 1 I'm going to do all kinds of things to agitate my brain so it knows that something is different and then repetition. So I can change my life that way for the good or for bad.

Speaker 2 Makes sense. Makes sense.
When you,

Speaker 2 You do hypnosis too. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Why did you get into hypnosis?

Speaker 1 It seemed cool.

Speaker 1 That's

Speaker 1 like

Speaker 1 there's a guy in the UK. His name is Darren Brown.

Speaker 1 Maybe you, I don't know if you've seen videos of him, but he was on Rogan.

Speaker 1 And he did this stuff that looked like magic to me. And I wanted to learn it.
But I got obsessed with like what is it that makes people do things that are not in their best interest? And I

Speaker 1 read about people committing crimes using hypnosis.

Speaker 1 And like there was a story in Russia where this lady would go up to someone and then after about 60 seconds, she would ask them to hand over their wallet and their watch and all the money in their pocket.

Speaker 1 And they would just willingly hand it over. And she would say, okay, and you're just fine.
You were walking that way. And they would walk off.
And they would report to the police.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't know what happened. She asked for those things.
So I just handed them over and then I was really confused.

Speaker 1 So that was fascinating to me. I wanted to learn how to do it.
But it also, you can do all kinds of amazing positive things for somebody with hypnosis.

Speaker 1 You can get somebody out of an eating disorder or out of depression or all kinds of stuff. You can make them quit smoking or quit drinking.
So hypnosis is just a cool thing that we go into naturally.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 we're trance machines. All of us go into and out of trance or what trance is, which we can dig into if you want.

Speaker 1 But it's essentially our theta wave brain function, about seven hertz cycles per second of brain waves. And that means our brain is hyperplastic, hyper-suggestible.

Speaker 1 And that's why, like, from age zero to seven, we're in that theta brainwave state almost exclusively, which is why, like, when you're a kid, you can learn four or five languages.

Speaker 1 And you're like, yeah, I know all those. It wasn't stressful.
It wasn't hard. You could learn Russian and Spanish and Swahili all at the same time.

Speaker 1 So that theta wave state is what you're accessing in hypnosis. And we go into and out of it two or three times a day naturally.

Speaker 1 And that's all really hypnosis is. And we could dig into whatever you want.
But hypnosis is a lot of fun. And what got me into it was like, I thought it would be bad.
I thought it would make me cool.

Speaker 2 I mean, you were just talking about the trance. And if we want to dive into it, we can go deeper.
Let's do it. What is that?

Speaker 1 So trance is a mixture of three big things so it's an increase in suggestibility an increase in your level of focus like how much i can take your attention and kind of pull it all down into one little place and it's an increase in your dissociation

Speaker 1 so and this is when i'm kind of separating from my body a little bit in my mind and not i'm not like doing out of body experiences but i'm i'm getting to a place where you your mind and your body are two different things i'm going to relax your body.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 we know that once you're in that state, a lot of changes, mental changes become way easier. So you could use it to save someone's life, which I did on a Delta Airlines flight.

Speaker 1 There's a guy that was going to

Speaker 1 hurt himself.

Speaker 1 And he was jacked.

Speaker 1 Huge dude. like scary.
Like I knew that he would probably kill me.

Speaker 1 And I hypnotized him in the front of the plane, and he had a

Speaker 1 the rest of flight was absolutely fine. And Delta gave me, I think, a thousand points for that as a

Speaker 1 thank you.

Speaker 1 Nice. So

Speaker 1 you can use it for all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 1 And from a neuroscience perspective, there's two big things happening with hypnosis. The first is your brain floods with this chemical called GABA, which is gamma-immunobutyric acid.

Speaker 1 And it's our inhibitory neurotransmitter. It's the one neurotransmitter or the biggest neurotransmitter in the brain that calms everything down.

Speaker 1 Let's just chill. It brings your heart rate down,

Speaker 1 relaxes your body, relaxes your mind and like what you're focusing on.

Speaker 1 And the second is this other chemical called homovanilic acid, which they've only been able to detect recently through spinal fluid under hypnosis, which increases in the brain.

Speaker 1 And those things allow your brain to become really plastic. So if you have a good hypnotist, then a person can actually help you.

Speaker 1 And this is proven by the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association. It's a proven method of treatment for a lot of stuff.

Speaker 1 But not everybody's easily hypnotizable. So people have varying levels of suggestibility.
Okay.

Speaker 2 What's the process like to hypnotize somebody?

Speaker 1 It's pretty straightforward. Well, fix your mind on something.

Speaker 1 Dispel the rumors and myths that people get. Like, you're not going to be deaf.
You're not in a coma. You're going to hear my voice the whole time.
You're not going to get stuck.

Speaker 1 You can't get stuck in hypnosis. And this is not something I do professionally, hardly ever.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 you talk to them in such a way that their focus is there. You tell them to focus on something.
You help them relax their body.

Speaker 1 And this full body relaxation where you hear someone say, like your shoulders are falling and face is relaxing and all this

Speaker 1 if your body starts relaxing we start releasing a little bit more GABA in our brain and you just kind of count down 10 to 1 and helping somebody go into trance and then you just kind of say sleep and that expectation of trance is what really sends someone into a deliberate trance instead of a

Speaker 1 random trance that we go into naturally.

Speaker 1 And once they're in there, then you can do the suggestions. Like, you know, every time you reach for a cigarette, you're going to be nauseous or, you know, whatever a hypnotist might say.

Speaker 1 The only clients I really work with with hypnosis is a, and this is kind of fascinating, I work one-on-one with people every once in a while, a few times a year, where we will do a full-on simulation, including having a medical doctor there, of a gastric band surgery.

Speaker 1 to where they go through the entire experience of having that surgery done. They can feel that band being placed on the stomach.
They go through the surgery in their mind.

Speaker 1 And then they actually wear a bandage for a couple of weeks after.

Speaker 1 And they get about 80% of the results of, 80, 85% of results of what a gastric band surgery is. Are you serious? Dead serious.
Holy shit.

Speaker 1 So this has been used for several things like that. And just a...
A few months ago, the first brain surgery, open brain surgery, was done with no anesthetic and only hypnosis.

Speaker 2 What?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And they've been using it as anesthesia for a hundred years almost. For dental, you can have teeth removed and they've done limb amputations where the person couldn't feel any pain.

Speaker 1 It is pretty powerful stuff.

Speaker 2 How do you know when they've arrived at hip?

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 1 I don't think there's a perfect indicator unless the person you're doing it with is wearing an EEG, like a brain scan machine.

Speaker 1 But you see their breathing shift. You'll see most of us breathe from our chest.
You know, when we're in conversation with people, you'll see it shift down into the belly.

Speaker 1 You'll see, even if their eyes are closed, you'll see the eyes kind of look up.

Speaker 1 Like if you try to look at the center of your head from behind, like you'll see the eyes kind of move in that direction, kind of roll upward.

Speaker 1 There's a few indicators that

Speaker 1 we look for, and those are the big ones.

Speaker 1 But the thing is that somebody might say, oh, I tried hypnosis a few years ago to quit smoking and it didn't work, or

Speaker 1 I don't think hypnosis works. But if you went down to Tijuana and got facial surgery by some drunk doctor, you're not going to say surgery doesn't work.

Speaker 1 You're going to say, I saw a bad surgeon, right?

Speaker 1 So who you see when it comes to hypnosis makes a huge difference. And whether or not they're, like with my clients, we do neurotransmitter analysis.

Speaker 1 We do blood work and all of that 60 days prior to the appointment. So everything is kind of balanced and going well before it even starts.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 what is it that happened when you say,

Speaker 2 whatever you said, you know, if you eat whatever thing, you're going to become nauseous afterwards. I mean, that is, I mean, that is,

Speaker 2 that's in there.

Speaker 1 It's in there deep.

Speaker 1 But we're setting up, it's not just me saying those words. We're setting...

Speaker 1 We're setting their brain up to receive that data in a very specific file in their file cabinet.

Speaker 1 I want the really important file, not the, hey, this is something some dude said. So I want them to pull that big important file out.

Speaker 1 And there's some phrases and words we use to get that file drawer opened and pull that file out for things that are permanent and things that are important and get the old file out and put that new one in there.

Speaker 1 But you make it really vivid too. So like you'll actually like if If someone's under hypnosis, you can have them change their body temperature.
You can have them alter their heart rate.

Speaker 1 You can have them not bleed. There's YouTube videos on this where they pulled people's skin up and shoved a needle through there and told them not to bleed on that hand.

Speaker 1 You can have them change the body temperature of one hand versus another from blood flow.

Speaker 1 And this is proven. This is peer-reviewed research.
So it is a really powerful tool, but it can be obviously weaponized, like anything that's powerful and awesome.

Speaker 1 Like you got an M4 up here, and that thing can be a tool for good. It could be a tool for bad.

Speaker 2 I mean, you know, this, I don't know,

Speaker 2 this makes MKUltra pop in my mind. Yeah.
I mean, it sounds

Speaker 2 kind of similar.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of that stuff. Do you?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I know a lot about MKUltra.

Speaker 2 Let's hear about it.

Speaker 1 There is,

Speaker 1 well, the background to it is the government was freaking out that there were

Speaker 1 guys in the Korean War saying, America's bad. I renounced my citizenship.
I hate America. Korea, yay, Korea,

Speaker 1 boo, America, kind of videos. And they're like, well, there's some technology because these are patriotic Americans being told to do all this stuff.

Speaker 1 So there was a start of what I would refer to as a mental arms race.

Speaker 1 And the Soviets were also doing this stuff, too. And this is where you had weird stuff going on.

Speaker 1 We had like Project Stargate, like the men who stare at goats movie, and remote viewing and all this other stuff stuff was going on. Then they started MKUltra,

Speaker 1 which involved a lot of former Nazi scientists

Speaker 1 and involved a lot of LSD and dosing people with massive, massive doses of LSD

Speaker 1 and ruining a lot of people's lives in the process.

Speaker 1 It was an attempt initially to find some kind of a truth serum. And actually the Navy participated in the biggest one, which was called Project Chatter, which is a sub-project of MKUltra.

Speaker 1 And with this, this guy, he's a professor at

Speaker 1 Hamilton, New York. I can't remember the name of the Colgate University.
His name is Dr. George Esterbrooks.

Speaker 1 And he and J. Edgar Hoover are collaborating on a plan to use hypnosis to capture and hypnotize a German submarine captain and give him alter identities

Speaker 1 and send him back to his fleet in Germany and have him torpedo the entire German fleet inside the harbor.

Speaker 1 And this was a legit plan. And

Speaker 1 I have access to the documents that survived the destruction order. and it was called Super Spy.

Speaker 1 And do you do show notes? Like the PDF in the comment or PDF in the description thing?

Speaker 2 Shit.

Speaker 1 I would have to send it to you so people can download it. Oh, we'll do it.
We'll do it. Okay.
I've done it before.

Speaker 2 I thought you'd been every, you know, we'll do it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so I'll send it to you so people can actually look at these because they're not public record. Thank you.
I went to this guy's house, talked to a family member.

Speaker 1 These were like old stuff that survived the

Speaker 1 the CIA's destruction order of all of this stuff. But it got weird.
I mean, these guys had had lots of power. This was called the OSS, which, as you know, pretty well back then.

Speaker 1 We've got this guy running the show. His name's Wild Bill Donovan.
And

Speaker 1 his instructions to the lead guys in every unit was to make Mary hell

Speaker 1 when it came to MKUltra.

Speaker 1 And they did this one project called Project Midnight Climax. Have you heard of this?

Speaker 1 They took

Speaker 1 prostitutes in San Francisco, and these women would lure these men back to the hotel and drug them with LSD,

Speaker 1 like high-dose LSD. And on the other side of a two-way mirror, these scientists would be back there writing down God knows what, because that's all we really know about the whole program.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 they were also experimenting with aerosol LSD. Like, can we disperse it into a crowd? Can we disperse it over a city? What does it do in water supplies?

Speaker 1 And just some insane stuff. But they discovered this way to create a Manchurian candidate.
And this is a lot of where some of these ideas came from.

Speaker 1 And this guy, George Estbrooks, perfected, or back then had it, perfected, this system to create a Manchurian candidate to where

Speaker 1 he could create an alter ego inside of an Army officer.

Speaker 1 One of them was the normal officer, and they called him Jones A, and there was a Jones B.

Speaker 1 And we could send this guy through enemy lines doing whatever. Jones A is a normal army officer.
Jones B is carrying these vital classified secrets, radio frequencies, you know, whatever it is.

Speaker 1 I made that last part up, the frequency part up. Who knows what he's carrying?

Speaker 1 So if Jones A gets captured, Jones B doesn't activate until he hears a very specific hypnotic phrase or hypnotic command under hypnosis. And they do that on the other side of the line.

Speaker 1 So, they developed this stuff way back when.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 one of the doctors working on this whole project was named Dr. Joylin West,

Speaker 1 who

Speaker 1 may have been involved with the Sirhan-Sirhan situation and

Speaker 1 Bobby Kennedy,

Speaker 1 which is a whole nother rabbit hole, but it looks like Sirhan Sirhan to me. I'm 100% convinced that he was programmed to do that.

Speaker 2 No shit.

Speaker 1 It's not hard to do. I mean, look at the Milgram experiment.
40 minutes, kill a stranger, and they didn't use hypnosis. There was no like cool sales tactic or script that they had to follow.

Speaker 1 You don't, everybody's concerned with like, what do I say? What are the exact words I need to say? It's can you trigger the fate model? Focus, emotion, I'm sorry, focus, authority, tribe, and emotion.

Speaker 1 And if you get that, you get compliance.

Speaker 1 And if you get that plus hypnosis, then you can create the Manchurian candidate. And it's not that hard to do.
You don't need a bunch of advanced training to get that done.

Speaker 1 And I've studied that for a long time. So when I

Speaker 1 work with one-on-one clients who need a breakthrough or something like that, I'll use the exact same method to create an alter ego in a person that maybe doesn't eat six pounds of cheesecake every day.

Speaker 1 So you could take the exact same thing and put it in someone else that benefits them and acts as maybe a drill sergeant or a disciplinarian.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 the reason that I started doing this or got interested in it, There are case studies and reports of people with dissociative identity disorder.

Speaker 1 So like two personalities or multiple personalities inside of a person where one of them has a medically diagnosable condition and the other one does not are you shitting me no this is proven like one of them could be cortically blind or one could have uh color blindness one of them could have uh some kind of a diabetic condition there were several conditions where these other personalities would have allergies even

Speaker 1 skin allergies and rashes in response to cat hair And

Speaker 1 just upon reading this, I'm thinking like, well, could I make someone with severe depression have an alter ego that doesn't have the depression?

Speaker 1 And we know that neurons that fire together wire together. So over the course of six months, if they keep doing this, can they kind of like rewire their brain if this alter keeps taking over?

Speaker 1 Of course, I didn't know. I played with it for a really long time.
And man,

Speaker 1 our brains are fascinating and how fast they can change and adapt. And if you've got a good person working with you, you can get a lot done.

Speaker 1 But I think the only other way to really alter mental plasticity that fast would be psychedelics. That's like ketamine or a DMT or something like that.

Speaker 2 So how would they do it with MKUltra? Would it be, would it be,

Speaker 2 they are in the middle of the journey, you know, the psychedelic kicks in, and then they, is it a hypnosis? I mean, because the way it's described is they're injecting thoughts, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, so it probably,

Speaker 1 there was never a recipe. My estimation is that it was a micro dose of LSD, because as you know, in psychedelics, language loses more and more meaning the more psychedelics you do.

Speaker 1 So I was thinking it was a micro dose of LSD.

Speaker 1 Massive amounts of hypnosis to where the person's hyper-responsive to that person's voice.

Speaker 1 It's like when I see clients, they listen to my MP3 audio thing that's hypnosis to just help them go to sleep every night. So by the time they show up and see me in person,

Speaker 1 their brain is hyper-responsive to my voice and it's a lot easier.

Speaker 1 And then during that process, in my estimation, they used real trauma

Speaker 1 like oxygen deprivation or something like that to create a traumatic brain response inside of the limbic system of our brain, which makes us dissociate.

Speaker 1 And during this process of dissociation is when they put that second dissociated person or part of them or I don't know the words to say, but they're dissociated.

Speaker 1 So while they're dissociated, they hypnotize them and then kind of create that alter ego.

Speaker 1 Tell them how they activate, tell them when they come up and when they, what their personality is, what they like to do.

Speaker 1 You're here to protect the hosts so like if i did this to you sean b's job would be to protect sean a does that make sense man i mean kind of

Speaker 2 a little bit i mean i i don't understand how person b comes out though you know what i mean how how does how is that determined person b comes out through dissociation

Speaker 1 So that's where we get the name dissociative identity disorder.

Speaker 1 So when a person is going through some kind of traumatic event, you'll talk to somebody, I think you had someone on your show who mentioned this, who goes through trauma and they just kind of like exit their body temporarily or exit this one

Speaker 1 globe of consciousness into this other piece. And when they shift over to this other piece, you can separately create this piece.
and give them an identity, give them a name.

Speaker 1 And if I can make something real in your head, then I can create it in reality for you,

Speaker 1 which is why a lot of these cases of

Speaker 1 dissociative identity disorder were created by the psychiatrists in the 70s and 80s and the 90s.

Speaker 1 Because,

Speaker 1 and this is called iatrogenic dissociative identity disorder. So if you came to me, I keep using you as the example, but there's nobody else here.

Speaker 1 If, Sean, if you came to me and I was a psychiatrist and we were working together, you said, well, I have this thing going on in my life and it's X and Y and Z.

Speaker 1 And all I did was start talking about two different parts of you.

Speaker 1 And I say, it seems like there's a part of you that wants to eat the right thing, but there's also a part of you that wants to overeat.

Speaker 1 And you'd be like, yeah.

Speaker 1 And then I'd go into five or six other examples in your life. Is this like this in social situations? Is there a part of you that wants to hide and there's a part of you that wants to socialize? Yeah.

Speaker 1 So I'd go into all these parts.

Speaker 1 And then I would say, you know what? I'd like you to take a questionnaire.

Speaker 1 And this questionnaire is maybe 17 questions. And a lot of these people made it up on the spot, these little questionnaires.

Speaker 1 And if I tell you that you scored high in dissociative identity, I'd say like this person, this other part of you has their own thoughts, their own behaviors, their own life.

Speaker 1 And I think a lot of your issues are from not addressing. this other part of you that wants to do these other things.
And they're probably here to keep you safe.

Speaker 1 So just really quick, just between you and I, if that other part of you had a name, what would you want to name that other part? And you say, Stephen. And I'm like, all right.

Speaker 1 So I'd like to talk to Stephen now. So within the course of one session,

Speaker 1 I have a conversation with Sean. I have a conversation with Stephen.
And by the third or fourth session, You are fully living your life as if there are two people in your head.

Speaker 2 You got a.

Speaker 1 Because what happens there?

Speaker 1 There's a lot of novelty, focus, a lot of authority, because there's a guy in a lab coat or a guy in the psychology sweater vest holding the clipboard there taking you through a lot of this stuff.

Speaker 1 The authority and your expectation is what sets the stage for this to become a reality.

Speaker 1 So you can get, you can accidentally get dissociative identity from a

Speaker 1 provider.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 And this is very well documented.

Speaker 2 And so what was the point of MKUltro?

Speaker 1 Who knows? I don't know. You don't know? I think the initial aim was to figure out the perfect truth serum,

Speaker 1 which they thought LSD was some miracle for truth serum.

Speaker 1 And they were testing sodium amethol, which is another drug that's pretty well known as a good truth serum.

Speaker 1 And they were trying to figure out, can we really brainwash people? Can we create Manchurian candidates? Can we split people's personalities? There was so much

Speaker 1 that it was just wild. It was the wild west.
So it's just looking at what they did,

Speaker 1 nobody would ever be able to know what the ultimate aim was.

Speaker 2 So how would they get personality B to trigger on demand?

Speaker 2 If they were going to have a Manchurian candidate or,

Speaker 2 you know, an assassin or, you know,

Speaker 2 any, any

Speaker 2 bad actors. I mean, how would they, how would they trigger personality B to carry out whatever the mission is?

Speaker 1 It's pretty simple. A lot of repetition.

Speaker 1 So like if I continually deprive you of oxygen and then afterwards every time you dissociate them say now I'm talking to Sean B and what's your number one goal? You want to protect Sean A, right?

Speaker 1 And the number one way to do that is to go do this one thing in this place.

Speaker 1 That's the way to protect is that your is that your goal? Is that what you want to do? Good. And every time you come out, I might set up some kind of a trigger.

Speaker 1 Once you hear these words, then you have permission permission to come out and do exactly what you want to do. And it's very easy.
It's just setting up the expectation and then rehearsal.

Speaker 1 That's all hypnosis really is. But when you do it with this Manchurian candidate stuff, it's trauma, expectation, and then repetition.

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Speaker 1 It's not hard. I mean, if you could, without any of that trauma, any of that programming, no LSD, strangers will kill another stranger in 40 minutes

Speaker 1 at a rate of 67%.

Speaker 1 So people think like there's some advanced, crazy technique that you have to master to do a lot of this stuff. It's a lot simpler than most people think.

Speaker 2 It's not that advanced.

Speaker 1 It's not.

Speaker 2 Man, that's fucking scary.

Speaker 1 It is terrifying.

Speaker 2 Do you think that program's still going on?

Speaker 1 Yeah. We're swimming in it

Speaker 1 inside of our phone every day.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, so what is, we're kind of wrapping up the interview now, Chase, but I'm just, you know, with, with a lot of the things that are coming out today,

Speaker 2 AI,

Speaker 2 voice manipulation, I mean, you see a lot of these AI videos that are coming out. They look,

Speaker 2 they don't look fake.

Speaker 2 You know, they don't look fake. I mean, now they have these programs that will, that will,

Speaker 2 I mean, you should, you feed it 30 seconds of your voice and it'll replicate it perfectly. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Minus, you know, maybe some highs and lows and, and, and just how you talk as a person. Raise your voice, lower your voice, but it'll even start picking that up.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 If you give it enough time. So, I mean, what are your fears for

Speaker 2 what do you think, Psyops, how are they going to develop?

Speaker 1 It can copy your voice. I didn't know it could do that.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, they can copy your voice.

Speaker 1 So I could listen to a romance novel narrated by you?

Speaker 2 You could.

Speaker 1 I might try that.

Speaker 2 These guys are already doing it to my voice. I'm no doubt.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So I think at the end of the day, with with all this, all this AI,

Speaker 1 it's going to do exactly what we've already done. We are in a world where we've got

Speaker 1 our friend Joe Rogan, he's got more views than

Speaker 1 almost all of the media because that's contrived, it's narrative-driven, and it's artificial. And people are right now just starving for something more real.

Speaker 1 And I think over time, AI is going to become so pervasive that all we're going to do is crave something real again.

Speaker 1 We're going to get into a place of being extremely distrustful of digital assets and digital media

Speaker 1 in general.

Speaker 1 And I think that that distrust of digital media will drive us back to a place of craving some kind of reality, an actual actual human connection. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So I think that it may be the thing that pushes us backward toward where we need to be, reconnecting.

Speaker 1 And I'm not saying it's going to drive that change and change the world, but I'm saying it's going to create that desire for sure.

Speaker 1 It's going to create that desire for reality because we've already got it. And we're already seeing the world's reaction to shows like this, like the content that you put out.
It's not heavily edited.

Speaker 1 There's not some narrative being cast and all that stuff. It's super real.
And people are already starting to crave that stuff. And I think this is just going to push it even further.

Speaker 2 Well, that's good to hear. That's good to hear.

Speaker 2 I always expected something a lot darker than that.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 5 I'm just being honest.

Speaker 1 I brought you a present, by the way. Oh, right up.

Speaker 2 Oh, I got you a little something too.

Speaker 2 I forgot all kinds of shit at this interview. I was getting

Speaker 1 this is the excited.

Speaker 1 Oh, man.

Speaker 1 Pop that thing open.

Speaker 1 And I got one for your team as well.

Speaker 1 So this is my newest book. There's a paperback of it on Amazon, but it is every

Speaker 1 dangerous thing you ever wanted to know about reading people and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 Behavior ops. This is your newest book.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Behavior Ops Manual.

Speaker 2 And thank you.

Speaker 1 That spiral on that thing. We've only got like 90 of the spiral versions left.
The paperback is on Amazon. But you know Lisa Bilieu?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 Tom Bilieu from Impact Theory. Oh, yeah.
Okay. So his wife, I was on her show with her, and she wore that thing as a bracelet.
Her whole arm

Speaker 1 fit inside of that spiral.

Speaker 2 That's awesome, man. Thank you.
Thank you. Yeah, I actually had a couple things of fun.
Gummy bears, every guest gets the vigilance league. Gummy bears made in the USA, legal in all 50 states.

Speaker 1 Let's try one right now.

Speaker 2 Let me know what you think.

Speaker 1 These are normal gummy bears.

Speaker 2 They're normal.

Speaker 2 It's just candy.

Speaker 2 fortunately or unfortunately. I don't know,

Speaker 2 and they're good, not bad, huh?

Speaker 1 Actually, good, thank you.

Speaker 2 And then, uh, yeah, I usually do this at the beginning, but I

Speaker 2 uh got a little ahead of myself.

Speaker 2 This is from, so we have a Patreon account, subscription account, and uh, one of the things I do is I offer them the opportunity to ask each and every guest a question. This is from Stephen Casey:

Speaker 2 with the proliferation of assassination attempts in the past several years, are you at all concerned about the possibility of Manchurian candidate-type scenarios?

Speaker 2 Is science that far off from being a reality?

Speaker 1 Which science?

Speaker 1 I think the Manchurian candidate stuff has been going on for a while.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 here's the one thing no one ever talks about.

Speaker 1 A lot of people talk about this guy's gotten the skills, this guy did this programming. I think 80% of the hard work in doing that stuff

Speaker 1 is target selection and who you're going to pick to do that programming so that their backstory and all that stuff lines up with the agenda that the person has at the end of the day.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it is very possible, and I say this as a person who's like, I've studied probably more than anyone in the world.

Speaker 1 The one thing I'll say I might know more than anybody in the world about is this kind of alter ego programming stuff.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 I will say that, yes, I'm worried about it. What was his name, John?

Speaker 2 It's Stephen Casey.

Speaker 1 All right, so for Stephen, yes, I'm worried about it. And

Speaker 1 I don't know if there's a way that we can really do anything about it, sadly.

Speaker 1 Being weaponized.

Speaker 1 So the science is there, and the science to hack the brain is only getting better.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it's going to be a

Speaker 1 new world

Speaker 1 very soon. And if, if, like what we talked about, if AI keeps going, we're going to start this process of like, I need to get back to this.

Speaker 1 craving something real, which is what we're, if you look at the trends on what people are following, the YouTube channels that are creating more real content.

Speaker 1 I just last week hit a million subscribers on my channel.

Speaker 2 Congratulations. Thank you.

Speaker 1 People are craving stuff that's not narrative-based. It's not feeding you a bunch of bullshit.
And people are just talking normally.

Speaker 1 I don't think we're going to go the other way.

Speaker 1 I hope we're not.

Speaker 2 I hope not.

Speaker 2 I've been hearing and talking about the human connection for several years.

Speaker 2 And I hope you're right. I hope it comes back to that because

Speaker 2 people are not talking.

Speaker 1 I think there will be a portion of society that chooses to put on that

Speaker 1 advanced VR experience.

Speaker 1 They're a link. Well, I think way in the future,

Speaker 1 where you can't distinguish that from reality.

Speaker 1 But it's also like if you look at everything, how everything is a microcosm of the big thing. Our DNA looks like the galaxy and our eyes look like a star and all this kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 When we were on a break last, we talked about Salvia and how a dude did Salvia and lived like a 30-year life and like had kids and stuff and came back.

Speaker 1 I've read that probably two years ago. I've read about this guy.
That haunts me to this day because like,

Speaker 1 what if that's just the next level and we're in that now? I know. Like the headset hasn't come off yet.

Speaker 2 I think about that too. I do all the time.
What if this is a, yeah, what if this is a simulation? What if none of this is actually real yeah i mean

Speaker 2 i don't even know where to go from there but i did i i do think about that a lot

Speaker 1 more than i should yeah yeah i do too what do you think do you think we're in a false reality i think this is a simulation you do yeah you think this is a simulation but i don't think it's computer this is what i mean when our ancestors were around the universe was made of fire and different different elements of fire because that's you think I'm here right now?

Speaker 1 Yes. You do.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You don't think this is only in your projection of your reality?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 Have you ever thought that?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 But if you look at the Industrial Revolution, the universe was a machine.

Speaker 1 If you look at the electrical revolution when we started inventing electricity, the universe was all energy. And you look at now when we're in the age of computers and the universe is a computer.

Speaker 1 So we're just using very, very limited,

Speaker 1 you know, just our small, narrow perspective to make sense of something that's incomprehensible.

Speaker 1 And when people say like, oh, we could not be in a simulation because the computer would be the size of the solar system or whatever, like,

Speaker 1 how naive for us to say that they use computers.

Speaker 1 or we use computers or whatever this is, that we have some understanding of it because we're here and we're we're one of the youngest species on the planet.

Speaker 1 So I think there's not enough scientists out there who don't use the words as far as we know.

Speaker 1 I think there's too few scientists who don't admit that we haven't got it all figured out.

Speaker 2 Now, why do you think we're in a simulation?

Speaker 2 That's not in a computer simulation.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 so first, I would say if you look at the people

Speaker 1 who've done psychedelics and all of those lessons, why do they all learn the same lessons? Why are they all getting taught the same kind of thing mostly?

Speaker 2 What would you say those lessons are other than everything is one?

Speaker 2 That's what comes to my mind.

Speaker 1 Yeah, if we go back to psychedelics, the most ancient spiritual text ever written, I think, was the Hermetic Principles. And this first principle of Hermeticism Hermeticism was all is mind.

Speaker 1 The universe is mental.

Speaker 1 And this is like 3,500 years BC.

Speaker 1 They're writing this stuff.

Speaker 1 And the second principle is as above, so below.

Speaker 1 And man,

Speaker 1 they had some stuff figured out back then.

Speaker 1 And I think it's maybe a simulation in in that what we think is real is probably not real.

Speaker 1 Like you've, the separation between atoms makes everything like 99.999% empty space. Like we're just emptiness.

Speaker 1 And there's so many things. Every new discovery of quantum physics and quantum mechanics is proving one of these ancient wisdom principles right.

Speaker 1 Every new thing that we figure out, this quantum entanglement or quantum tunneling or this double slit experiment.

Speaker 2 What's quantum tunneling?

Speaker 1 Quantum tunneling is where like a particle can like appear at another location.

Speaker 2 I haven't heard of this one.

Speaker 1 And you've heard of quantum entanglement?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I've heard of quantum entanglement.

Speaker 1 And I understand quantum tunneling almost none.

Speaker 2 So quantum entangling for the audience is basically

Speaker 2 if you if you split an atom in half, correct me if I'm wrong, right? You split an atom in half, put, you know,

Speaker 2 A side over here, you put B side over here.

Speaker 2 It doesn't matter what the difference is, you could have one on fucking

Speaker 2 Pluto and the other one on the Sun. And

Speaker 2 if you put a frequency on one, it will mimic the exact same frequency no matter. It could be a centimeter away from it, it could be a galaxy away from it.
Instantly.

Speaker 2 It will mimic what side A is doing or side B is doing.

Speaker 1 So somehow information travels

Speaker 1 that distance instantly. No need to

Speaker 1 use light or anything like that.

Speaker 2 They do not appear to be connected, but no matter what the distance is, they will mimic each other. Yeah.
That's quantum entanglement.

Speaker 1 And the double slit experiment says that matter isn't really matter until we observe it and look at it. I'm dumbing that down and

Speaker 1 turning it into a post-it note, but essentially says something like that, which is like a,

Speaker 1 look at Minecraft.

Speaker 1 My kids played Minecraft growing up and like they would fly through the Minecraft game and like the mountains wouldn't materialize into the TV until they got closer and closer to them.

Speaker 1 And then you'd see them like pop up. And reality works the same way, which is unbelievable.
And I think we need to acknowledge how little we know. I've studied neuroscience for 12 years now.

Speaker 1 And we don't even know where memories are stored. We don't know.
We don't know how they're made. We don't know what consciousness is.
We have no clue of anything about consciousness.

Speaker 1 We know so little about the brain. There's probably 70% of the brain, like the anatomical structure of the brain, we're not really sure how they work or what they do.

Speaker 1 So it's okay. I think it should be more okay for a lot of people to admit that we're in our infancy of understanding reality to begin with.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 yeah, I don't know. I think a lot about this all the time.

Speaker 2 It's like, is

Speaker 2 is any of this real?

Speaker 1 Are you here?

Speaker 2 Is this fucking room here?

Speaker 2 Is any of this real?

Speaker 1 Well, that goes back to the first principle of hermeticism.

Speaker 1 The all is mind,

Speaker 1 mental.

Speaker 1 And I think that that's pretty damn true of like a lot of the things that we see on psychedelics, a lot of the big revelations that people have.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I think a lot of it is like, don't take everything so seriously that you get on mushrooms, that you get from any kind of journey like that. It's like,

Speaker 1 stop pretending like it's not a game, like it's just a game.

Speaker 1 And it's, if just look at the Bible, the number one most repeating phrase in the Bible is do not fear.

Speaker 1 365 times.

Speaker 2 I didn't know that either.

Speaker 1 Do not fear or.

Speaker 1 Be not afraid, like kind of variations on that theme. 365 times, most common phrase in the the Bible.
What was quantum tunneling?

Speaker 2 We didn't cover that.

Speaker 1 I don't know a lot about it, but I know that quantum tunneling proved or went back to the second principle of Hermeticism, which was as above, so below.

Speaker 1 That quantum tunneling is basically like creating some little wormhole. Okay.
Somebody else had answered this way.

Speaker 2 That's manipulation of

Speaker 2 space-time or something.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2 I'm going to have to dig into that one.

Speaker 1 It's worth a watch. I feel like I'm underprepared for you to ask me that.

Speaker 1 I was

Speaker 2 not talking about anything quantum.

Speaker 2 But I am curious,

Speaker 2 you had mentioned that

Speaker 2 these discoveries in the quantum realm are proving ancient theories correct. What are some of those theories that have been proven correct?

Speaker 1 The ancient theories.

Speaker 1 Like the all is mind.

Speaker 1 So when it comes to

Speaker 1 consciousness as we know it, there's a couple of lead or amazing guys that are doing research right now. Rupert Sheldrake is one of them.

Speaker 1 Federico Fagin, man, I wish you would get those guys on the show.

Speaker 2 You have contact with them?

Speaker 1 I will get you into contact with them. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But he wrote a book called Irreducible, and it's talking about our obsession with materialism.

Speaker 1 So let's say like if you wanted to understand why a Chopin

Speaker 1 classical piece makes you cry or makes people cry.

Speaker 1 You say, okay, we're going to to figure out why this makes people cry. So, we're going to go to the symphony hall.

Speaker 1 We're going to take all of these instruments, chop them into five billion pieces, and one at a time, put all the pieces of these instruments under a microscope. I'm going to zoom in on the wood.

Speaker 1 I'm going to zoom in on the strings. And then, oh, somebody's like, oh, shoot, there's music over here with notes written on it.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, all right, cut the paper up, cut that piece of paper up, and put the paper under the microscope so we can figure out music. Let's zoom into a piece of paper.

Speaker 1 So we're obsessing over material

Speaker 1 things and we're ignoring things that are harder to prove.

Speaker 1 And we can't, you cannot do a lab test to see why music works or why love starts happening and it's not just neurochemical.

Speaker 1 So we're really just our modern day is obsessed with materialism and reductionism. So like let me take this violin down to one shred of wood.

Speaker 1 Let me take this entire symphony on a paper and look at one molecule under a microscope.

Speaker 1 These guys talk a lot about this stuff, man, and it is

Speaker 1 so profound and beautiful. And the current theory of consciousness right now is that consciousness does not occur in the brain.

Speaker 1 And I think this was proven a couple months ago, or we had a step towards it a couple months ago. I can't remember the study, but

Speaker 1 he talks about it. Federico Fagin talks about this and Rupert Sheldrake, that consciousness is something that comes from outside of our head and our brain acts like a filter for consciousness.

Speaker 1 So that when we do things like psychedelic, it's really muting and turning down that filter of consciousness.

Speaker 2 They talk about this?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Big time.
Wow. I want you to get them on just so I can personally watch the episode.

Speaker 2 I'll do everything I can to get them on. That sounds fascinating.
You know, on another subject, I mean, on the break, we were talking about some laser with, and I've heard this too. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'll just let you do it, but basically it was lasers with ones and zeros visibly inside of the laser.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 let me just set this up. So if you bought like a DeWalt laser level at Home Depot and it paints that line across the wall, and then you put something in front of the laser to kind of diffuse it.

Speaker 1 So you take it from being a really thin laser line and then spread that sucker out so it's like six inches wide big fat line of laser on the wall and then you get somebody that's on dmt or psychedelics any almost any psychedelic i think

Speaker 1 when you look at that you can see number one you can see through the wall you can see through the wall you can see through the wall Where the laser is or just through the wall?

Speaker 1 Right where the laser is, you can see through the wall.

Speaker 1 You can even put it on your arm and the code changes on your arm. If your arm gets in front of where the wall is, the code is completely different.

Speaker 2 Are you sh what?

Speaker 1 I didn't believe this. So this was viral on TikTok.
Someone stole the TikTok video and reposted it on their X account. I saw this guy.
His name is Danny Goeler.

Speaker 1 And he's one of my good friends if you want to have him on.

Speaker 1 I'm listening. I'll put you guys in touch.
So

Speaker 1 I see this video and I'm watching the behavior of the people observing everything to see if they're lying because I'm a behavioral expert.

Speaker 1 I'm looking for deception and lies and all this stuff all the time.

Speaker 1 They were all truthful. So I called my assistant.
I said, get this guy wherever he is. Fly him to my house or fly him where we can meet up somewhere.
I want to try this out. So we flew to a place.

Speaker 1 We wound up flying to a place where DMT is not illegal.

Speaker 1 And we shine this thing on the wall. And I've I've never done DMT before until this day.

Speaker 1 And oh my God, that's a whole other

Speaker 1 three-hour podcast. But while you are in the DMT state,

Speaker 1 you get close to the wall and you can see code that looks kind of like

Speaker 1 alien writing, like you'd see, and then some that look like kanji Japanese characters.

Speaker 1 But the thing is, when you're hallucinating something, like sometimes hallucinations change and warp and modify a little bit. This is permanent, solid.

Speaker 1 So like, and if you move your head, the code stays in the same place.

Speaker 1 And if you move the laser on the wall, like you take the laser level and scoot it up, different code reveals itself as the laser is moving.

Speaker 1 Wow. Then you get two or three people lined up and they all see the same thing.
And I have looked into this quite a bit because I thought this, there's no way this could be true.

Speaker 1 But the first time I saw it, I wept. I wept.
There's a video of me watching it on YouTube.

Speaker 1 And it's just, you're seeing something, but you're left with no answers. Like the only thing you have coming out of that is like, what the hell did I just see? You know,

Speaker 1 it doesn't give you any more knowledge about anything.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 the big thing is, why are we seeing code?

Speaker 1 And where is it coming from? And what is it made of?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 why does everyone see the same exact characters if they're all looking at the same place?

Speaker 2 Man, that is crazy.

Speaker 1 It is bizarre. And if you put your arm in front of it, the code completely changes, but only right where your arm is.

Speaker 2 Do you have any theories on this?

Speaker 1 None.

Speaker 2 Nothing.

Speaker 1 Once you see it, like

Speaker 1 your ability to think that you have shit figured out is gone.

Speaker 1 It's gone.

Speaker 1 I have no explanation for what the hell it is.

Speaker 1 But it's fascinating. Wow.

Speaker 1 And I think this is going to, within our lifetime, if Danny keeps going with this research,

Speaker 1 we're going to have a big breakthrough in consciousness understanding of what the hell it is.

Speaker 1 But man, it's beautiful and

Speaker 1 makes you feel stupid

Speaker 1 at the same time.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 2 can I mention what you're getting ready to do or do you want to just you want to we keep in that oh, you can yeah, I'm going to make a video about it. Yeah.
All right. So you're doing the

Speaker 2 intravenous psychedelic experience that I guess, you know, apparently basically almost nobody has done.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 you're going to do some super deep work. Man, I would, no bullshit.
I would love to get you back here and just

Speaker 2 talk about what that experience was like, what you learned, what you saw, what you felt. Yeah.
Would you do it again?

Speaker 1 If you want to send one of your dudes down there just to get B-roll for that episode, then we can do it, man.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 So it's four to five hours of NN DMT.

Speaker 1 And they're essentially following like a kind of a slow drip protocol of how you would get anesthesia in an operating room.

Speaker 1 So they took these general anesthesia procedures, applied it to DMT to maintain a

Speaker 1 DMT experience for that long.

Speaker 1 And then five MEO DMT through a vape during that experience as well.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I don't know how it's going to be, but I'm going to be doing that soon. Man.

Speaker 2 I mean, you know, we just talked about MKUltra. I mean, do you, do you, do you have any fear of any thoughts, anything being injected into your mind, your consciousness, when

Speaker 2 doing an intravenous type experience?

Speaker 1 You mean from someone speaking in the room or?

Speaker 2 Anybody.

Speaker 1 No, I know these people you do yeah okay we've we've got we're getting to know each other right now and

Speaker 1 yeah that would be horrifying because if if you're doing DMT you really got to trust the other person in the room with you that they know what they're doing oh yeah that's why I'm asking yeah because I've I've had the same opportunity offered and I just

Speaker 2 I was like, I just, I don't

Speaker 2 can't do it. I don't, there's no trust.

Speaker 1 That anxiety, there's an anxiety spike when you first ingest DMT, however you do it.

Speaker 1 There's kind of an anxiety spike because you have to like pop out of your body and you have to kind of surrender your life a little bit. It's like dying to the chemical.

Speaker 2 Regular DMT is a death experience as well.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 I did not realize that.

Speaker 1 I did not realize that. It's not like death.
I mean, it's like something's taking...

Speaker 1 Like you're living inside of an animal and you get to crawl out of it. It's kind of how it feels to me.
But some people, like if you're really, really wrapped in ego and like

Speaker 1 you have a lot of fear of doing that stuff, then

Speaker 1 there'll be an anxiety spike, which is why a lot of people will micro-dose an MDMA right before a DMT experience to help with that ego

Speaker 1 and opening your heart a little bit to what's going on. Gotcha.

Speaker 2 I didn't know that either.

Speaker 1 It's a beautiful thing to mix, especially in a micro form.

Speaker 1 So you're not like rolling on MDMA it's a micro gotcha gotcha but that experience when you're on NN DMT is kind of like a really really low frequency vibration

Speaker 1 and the way that I could describe it is if you had low frequency sound that is shaped in scales like fish scales sound that

Speaker 1 looks and feels like fish scales just kind of like enveloping your body until the point that you

Speaker 1 that you're like exiting interesting

Speaker 1 interesting it is amazing and

Speaker 1 danny the guy who did the laser experiment he took me through dmt my first experience we did breath work for 15 minutes or so you held the molecule over your heart for uh five ten fifteen minutes with gratitude and just saying thank you thank you thank you over and over again

Speaker 1 and then going into the experience I started freaking out because both of us were kind of military rigid, and don't want to give up control, really. And I kind of fought it a little bit.

Speaker 1 And this face pops out of the wall, like nine feet tall, in a loving way. Because you can see crazy stuff on DMT, but it's very understanding and loving and pretty cool.

Speaker 1 And that's telling me to relax.

Speaker 1 And as she's saying that, Danny says, You need to listen to her. Wow.

Speaker 1 And because he had taken one hit of the DMT as well, as I was going in. And

Speaker 1 dude,

Speaker 1 it just makes you ask more questions about reality. Like, where is it that we go? And I've worked with a lot of scientists, a lot of people.
We're doing a lot of consciousness research right now.

Speaker 1 We have a nonprofit called Field Consciousness Laboratory.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I've never met one person who thinks that what happens on DMT is a hallucination.

Speaker 1 Not one.

Speaker 1 Which is profound in itself.

Speaker 1 It's just, I don't think we can understand it yet.

Speaker 2 I mean, on the topic of consciousness, I mean, I'm curious, what are your thoughts on remote viewing and ESP and all that kind of stuff?

Speaker 1 With what we know now about consciousness and what they're starting to prove with Rupert Sheldrake and those other guys,

Speaker 1 If consciousness is external to the body, your brain is kind of like a consciousness radio receiver that's tuned to a frequency. You ever heard of sudden savant syndrome?

Speaker 1 This happens when somebody gets in a car accident, bumps their head, and suddenly they speak French. And they've never learned French ever.

Speaker 1 This is well documented.

Speaker 1 Or somebody gets in a, bumps their head, falls off a bike, and then they're an expert genius at calculus. Or they can suddenly play the violin.

Speaker 1 It's called sudden savant syndrome.

Speaker 1 And so what

Speaker 1 there is no possible scientific explanation for it. None whatsoever.

Speaker 1 So if our brains are little receivers of consciousness, maybe this like a little bump on the head or a little head trauma somehow modifies that dial to where that person just shifted the frequency that they're tuning into or something.

Speaker 1 And if sudden savant syndrome can start to show us things like that and how people experience that, and you've got this stuff out here called the telepathy tapes now, where they're showing us like we have no idea what's going on.

Speaker 1 But maybe that's what remote viewing is. It's like that person just has a skill to be able to hit that tuner knob the right way, to be able to just tune into another piece of consciousness

Speaker 1 above a file on a desk in Moscow somewhere.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you know,

Speaker 2 it's just talking about consciousness, so I wanted to bring it up, but you'd also, you were talking about towards the beginning of the interview, I believe, you know, that words were, you're talking about words, you know, and then how they,

Speaker 2 words can't describe, you know, certain psychedelic experiences, other experiences.

Speaker 2 And, you know, the first guy that I, I guess actually the second guy that I interviewed about it was Joe McMonagall, and he had talked about,

Speaker 2 I had asked him about, you know, where do, why do you have this? Why doesn't anybody else have this? He says, I think we all have, you know, the capability to potentially do this

Speaker 2 but it's been lost through through

Speaker 2 through generations of technology and and and actually he brought up the first thing that he brought up was language and he

Speaker 2 had mentioned you know at the beginning we would travel in packs and it was grunting and body language facial expressions things like that

Speaker 2 then

Speaker 2 then um

Speaker 2 then we developed language and it's just a a very, it's a less efficient way of communicating. We think it's more descriptive.

Speaker 1 Maybe it is, but

Speaker 2 we had lost the ability to immediately

Speaker 2 communicate without words.

Speaker 2 And when you think about it, I mean, it's...

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 if you think of a parasite.

Speaker 1 Like an actual parasite. It needs a host to replicate.
It invades the host without the host knowing. It uses the host to replicate itself.

Speaker 1 And it changes the host's behavior so that it can replicate itself. And it modifies the host's behavior overall.
That's language. Language follows all the criteria of what really defines a parasite.

Speaker 1 So it's interesting that there's a theory out there of language becoming some kind of alien parasite, but it doesn't have to be alien.

Speaker 1 The grunt that you were talking about conveyed depth and meaning.

Speaker 1 The word is a description. The word points to something.
The grunt conveyed something and passed on information and passed on feelings.

Speaker 1 And instead of grunt just meaning I'm hungry, the grunt means I'm hungry. I've had a bad day and several other things.
I'm tired.

Speaker 1 And it conveyed information without describing things.

Speaker 1 So language was invented initially to just sell chickens and exchange them for rice and stuff like that and they started this with cuneiform where they would put little symbols on tiles and even prostitutes had this little tile that would convey this and it was like the first printed receipt with these little cuneiform tiles so language was designed for

Speaker 1 describing and conveying some kind of data, not for really giving deep meaning about a lot of stuff. And that's why it's so challenging to really do that with language.

Speaker 1 So this French philosopher, his name is Jean Baudrillard, he wrote a book called Simulakra and Simulation, where he's saying, for the rest of humanity's history, we will live in a world with more and more information and less and less meaning.

Speaker 1 Because everything is pointing to something.

Speaker 1 So like the Instagram is pointing to something. It's a simulation of something.
Disney World is the ultimate simulation of something that's pointing to another simulation

Speaker 1 that has no origin. It goes pretty deep, but a lot of what we do in our lives is a simulation of something.

Speaker 1 If we look at Walmart, it's a simulation of a market with like wooden baskets around there. They're simulating an environment that might be familiar to our ancestors.

Speaker 1 So a lot of our lives are are representations of things instead of the thing itself. Interesting.
We get obsessed with it.

Speaker 2 Interesting.

Speaker 2 Well, Chase, fascinating discussion, man. I am really happy we connected.
Me too, man.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 2 Thank you. Cheers.

Speaker 2 I'm Sean Ryan. former Navy SEAL, CA contractor, and host of the Sean Ryan Show.

Speaker 2 Much of my life has been dedicated to seeking truth and getting answers no matter how uncomfortable the questions are that we have to ask.

Speaker 2 But in the age of the PSYOP, that search has never been more difficult.

Speaker 2 In September of 2022, the U.S. Army's 4th PSYOP Group released a cryptic video on YouTube.

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Speaker 2 In each episode, we look at a different method of psychological operations, how they've they've evolved, and how they are being deployed.

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Speaker 2 people

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