Miranda Devine: All of the Biden Family Crimes, Hunter’s Future, and How History Will Remember Them

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Here's the episode. So we saw Zelensky campaigning for Kamala Harris, the unelected president.
I guess that'd be dictator, of Ukraine campaigning for Kamala Harris in Pennsylvania a couple of weeks ago. And it just is a reminder that Ukraine is not just like a foreign policy priority.
It is central to this administration and has been for 10 years. You've reported this more than anybody.
Why? Well, I mean, that's the central question and the kind of mystery about Joe Biden. And it's the key to figuring out how he got to be president.
This very unprepossessing, not very intelligent man was sort of captured, I think, in his very earliest days in the Senate. He came to the Senate as a green 30-year-old kind of part-time grifter from Delaware.
And he was immediately embraced by the sort of elder statesmen who are controlled, the foreign policy establishment, basically, in the Senate, and was elevated to the most powerful committee in the Senate, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which he ended up being chairman or ranking member for over a decade. And that is the place where the CIA meets government power.
He had access to the CIA, CIA had access to him, and he was very early on captured by the Chinese or captivated by the Chinese. He travelled as a young senator to the Chinese equivalent of Martha's Vineyard and met all the top CCP people, came back waxing lyrical about how wonderful China was, just like Tim Walsh, same sort of capture.
So much so that the Weekly Standard at the time ran a cover story just saying how ridiculous he was. And the same with Russia.
The foreign policy establishment in America has this obsession with Russia and wanting now regime change with Putin, enlarging NATO. that was, people don't really realise, but Joe Biden was pushing for the enlargement of NATO

to include especially Ukraine and Georgia. So yeah, Victoria Newland and Joe Biden are probably the two most instrumental Americans in Ukraine policy for, you know, since before the Maiden Revolution in 2014.
Victoria Newland was over there. There's this ridiculous scene that was captured on videotape of her sort of striding around Maidan Square, handing out sandwiches from a big bag to the protesters there and saying, good on you, well done.
And the CIA, I mean, it's pretty much an established fact that the CIA was involved in the toppling of the Yanukovych regime there, which was sort of more Russia aligned, but not as much as he said. I mean, he was sort of trying to do a European trade deal.
But anyway, he was after about two months of phone calls with Joe Biden, then the vice president, who would harangue him and make these grandiose threats. Yanukovych finally had enough after the ninth phone call, like interminable hour-long phone call with Joe Biden.
He just got in a helicopter and left. And then Victoria Newland is captured on a phone call that was, I think, recorded by the Russians, but released, and it's genuinely her.
And she's just talking about how they're going to impose their puppet government on Ukraine, and they're going to get Joe Biden involved, and he's going to give the new government an attaboy on the phone. And Jake Sullivan has told them that they've got to get Joe Biden involved.
So these very unimpressive people, Victoria Nuland's not very impressive and neither is Joe Biden. They ended up being the sort of rulers of ukraine but what was the appeal for them was it ideological um i think for victoria newland yes because she's a hawk uh you know neocon she was dick cheney's um primary advisor in the iraq war i remember very well yeah um so i think and her husband, Robert Kagan, is like a leading neocon intellectual.
I worked with him. One of the dumbest people I've ever worked with.
Really? Yes. Bob Kagan and a very angry and unpleasant man, but stupid.
How did he become so influential then? Because he's part of, you know, the Washington foreign policy establishment and, you know, because of his views.

Yeah.

You know, his views are consistent, well, not like consistent.

They are sort of the archetype of Washington's foreign policy.

Um, very anti-American, I would say.

Uh, extremely anti-American, but, um, but conventional.

Yeah, so I know.

So that's, that's interesting because i mean i think i don't

know about victoria newland she doesn't strike me as being particularly intelligent joe biden certainly is not apart from he has a sort of a cunning political cunning um but the three of them then have those those establishment views so they're useful and that's kind of my premise is that Joe Biden was the sort of tool of the blob or the people who are in control from the CIA, the State Department. And they wanted a sort of puppet president, as they pretty much always had.
And the same people who covered up for Joe Biden and his corruption, allowed it, green-lit it, are the same people that are propping up Kamala Harris and who regard Donald Trump as an existential threat,

but not to America or democracy, like we're told, but to them and their power.

It's just, it's amazing to me as an American, if you told me 10 years ago that I'd be sitting,

you know, talking to a reporter on camera about how the CIA controls who the president is and then uses the president's puppets i would have thought that sounds a little far out but it's clearly true yeah i don't know just the cia i mean i think it's the what obama people call the blob what mike benz talks about for sure the you know it's the pentagon state department cia um and in in the cover-up of Joe Biden's corruption and the Hunter Biden investigation, also the Department of Justice and the IRS were involved. And so it's the classic what Trump called the deep state.
And they couldn't control him. He's always been an uncontrollable person.
And that's, I guess, his gift, what made him so good as president and is allowing him now to do so well. But it also makes him an existential threat to the blob, to the deep state.
So the impeachment, the first impeachment of Trump over Ukraine should have been the tip off to the rest of us that ukraine was really the kind of the whole point for these people and i remember thinking well it was just an excuse they were using because they wanted to impeach trump but no it really was the third rail for them yeah in hindsight it was incredible that donald trump got impeached for the sins of Joe Biden, effectively, doing exactly, like being accused of doing exactly what Joe Biden did, which was to withhold US aid. Joe Biden withheld a billion dollars of US aid so that the President Poroshenko of Ukraine fired the honest prosecutor who was investigating the company that was paying his son

a million dollars a year. And Donald Trump made, in a conversation with Zelensky, he said, you know, can you please investigate the Biden family stopping the prosecution of Burisma, this energy company in Ukraine.

And for that, and for supposedly talking about or withholding aid for like a millisecond from Ukraine, he got impeached. We only know about that conversation because he was spied on and then the contents were leaked, correct? No.
I mean, the conversation he had with Zelensky is public. I mean, it's listened to and there's a readout.

But I guess, and he then released a transcript himself.

But you're not meant to have a verbatim.

American people isn't meant to have a verbatim transcript.

These phone calls, for some reason, are not actually recorded.

They're just sort of transcribed.

But, yeah, it was leaked by a Ukrainian-American sort of, I don't know, he was in the State Department at the time listening. And the crime was threatening to withhold aid, as if Ukraine is a constitutional right to American tax dollars or something.
I don't understand the pretext. Well, because they said that it was of political benefit to him.
Even though Joe Biden was not candidate for president at the time,

they said that it was of political benefit to him. Even though Joe Biden was not candidate for president at the time, they said that somehow Donald Trump knew that Joe Biden, who was the least likely to become the Democratic candidate, that somehow Donald Trump's had a crystal ball and figured out that it was Joe Biden.
Actually, I mean, Donald Trump knew that there was nefarious stuff going on in Ukraine. And he'd had his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, was looking into it.
And he suspected that Ukraine was involved in interfering with his campaign in 2016 and getting his campaign manager, a guy called Manafort, basically ended up being jailed. And I'm not defending Manafort.
I think he was like a lot of grifters, American grifters in Ukraine, very corrupt country, the most corrupt country in Europe. They're out there with their hands out.
So, I mean, there were Republicans doing it, but the Bidens were doing it. And I think that, you know, Joe Biden as vice president sold out the country in many ways.
And Ukraine was part of that for a few million dollars for his family. And, you know, maybe 25 million that we've discovered from China and Ukraine and Russia and Romania and so on.
But, you know, I think Ukraine has just been an obsession by the blob because they think they're trying to weaken Russia and they think the way to do that is they want to wean Europe off Russian energy. And they had this fantasy that Ukraine was going to be able to supply Europe with the energy that Russia didn't want to say cut off, but it's impossible because Ukraine has 3% of the shale gas deposits that Russia has.
So it doesn't make sense. Why would they care? I've never understood why Russia's bad.
Me neither. My actual theory, I have two theories.
One is that because it's sort of orthodox Christian, and so the now, I mean, America's always sort of exported its way of life and its democracy, and that's been a benign thing until maybe the last decade when the State Department now thinks that its role in exporting American culture is LGBTQ stuff, which goes right down to, I think in Indonesia, very conservative kind of Muslim country. I think it was Indonesia or anyway, it was a country like that where they were having like drag queen story time.
The State Department was funding that, you know, which just causes great hostility in these conservative countries. It damages America's interests to impose these social sort of bizarre social norms onto these like maybe culturally conservative countries.
And I think Russia is regarded as culturally conservative. Putin has allied himself with the Orthodox Church.
I don't think necessarily because he himself is religious at all, but just because it's a source of power for him. And, you know, you see it in Poland, a lot of those Eastern Bloc countries, they really reject this cultural imperialism from America.
It happened in Afghanistan. I mean, when Kabul fell, the pride flag was hanging over the brand new embassy that the Americans had built.
So that's- They hung a pride flag in Afghanistan? Yes. So this is just, all that does is antagonize everyone around the world.
And I don't think the American people want, agree with it or- Why would it be exporting homosexuality? Yeah. And transgender, you know children but why would the u.s government even have that in its portfolio why is it the u.s government's business who you sleep with well because that joe biden came in promising equity and um he just gave an interview to the blade i think just boasting about how important his administration had been in promoting transgender rights, rainbow rights.
And it's sort of a shadow agenda that most Americans aren't really aware of, but you saw it when Joe Biden invited this transgender woman

who came to the White House and bared her breasts,

she's really a man,

bared her breasts for the cameras in the White House

and the pride flag was adorning the White House

at equal status with the American flag and people were outraged by that. But I don't think- And we wonder why we're getting all these hurricanes.
It's not global warming. Sorry.
It's the trannies in the White House. Well, we've always had hurricanes though.
Yeah, well, yeah. But you can see why they'd be increasing in frequency after stuff like that.
Well, that's just amazing. But I think that's one reason why Russia has resisted and they are trying to impose on Russia.
The same with Hungary. Remember, America has sent, Hungary is kind of traditionally Catholic and quite culturally conservative.
And so what does America do? Send a gay ambassador with a husband and adopted kids to just talk about nothing but gay rights in Hungary. He's got an IQ of about 80 and doesn't speak Hungarian and is lecturing everyone in the country about how immoral they are.
Yeah. I mean, send him to Australia.
He would be embraced. They would love him.
But why would you antagonize a country that's conservative and is having its own- Well, that's the purpose of diplomacy, right? Is to make your potential allies hate you. that's conservative and is having its own well that's the purpose of diplomacy right is to

make your potential allies hate you that's right yeah so i think that's one one reason that that the state department has a loathing for russia um but also i think it's because this is my theory i have no proof for it but that you know china seems to be much more of a threat than russia which is a small GDP.

It really isn't that much of a threat to America,

whereas China is encroaching, you know, it's imperialist. It's very aggressive now in the South China Sea.
It's trapping all these little countries in debt traps. You know, the Belt and Road Initiative is an imperialist objective and it's directly threatening to the United States.
So I think that the Wall Street or the people that fund the blob and fund the wars don't want the American people to realize that China's the real threat. So they focus their attention on Russia so that we just forget about China.
It's amazing how many Americans fall for it. I say that with sadness.
They fall for it. I mean, was Russia's imperial aims? No.
What threat does Russia pose to the United States except a nuclear response to provocation from NATO. I don't,

but people kind of fall for it.

It's like the worst person in the world is Putin.

Okay, maybe he's a bad guy,

but is that...

There are a lot of bad guys

around the world.

There are a lot of bad guys.

There are a lot of bad guys,

including in our government.

So it's interesting.

So,

but you think the

point of Ukraine

is to destabilize Russia.

Yeah.

And the point of destabilizing Russia is because they won't bow to American cultural imperialism on the gay stuff. Not entirely.
I just think that that gives sort of impetus and passion to those people in the State Department who, you know, everyone needs to be on the same song sheet and they all need to hate Russia. And so why you have to try and understand why do they hate Russia so much? What's Russia done to them? And, you know, I do think that the fact that they're sort of, I mean, remember the dramas when Putin imposed some sort of anti-gay law? I don't think it was, it wasn't actually anti-gay.
It was kind of what Ron DeSantis is trying to do in Florida is just stop this grooming and encroachment on childhood. Yeah, you can't throw sexual propaganda at children.
Yeah. That would be like the, you know, anti-kid-toucher law.
That would be totally conventional in any normal country, right? That's right. And you can't fund hormone replacement and genital mutilation for 12-year-olds.
You don't want to set kids on the path of changing their sex. So leave them alone until they're 18.
I think that's pretty reasonable. But that's seen as being anti-gay.
Amazing. It's funny how some of the biggest threats to your personal liberty are never discussed in the media.

Maybe that's on purpose.

Here's one of them.

It's called Section 702.

What is 702?

Well, Section 702 refers to a part of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, FISA.

And it allows warrantless surveillance of American citizens. Now Now that's against our Bill of Rights, of course, but that has not prevented your U.S.
Congress from extending it again for another two years. That means your elected representatives have allowed the United States government to spy on you.
They've weaponized your government, which you pay for, against you, its own citizens. So what can you do about that? Well, you can vote out anybody who made that possible, including the current Speaker of the House.
But in the meantime, you can take steps to protect yourself from their spying. And one of the ways you can do that is by protecting your internet browsing history.
Yes, your internet service provider tracks every click you make online and then sells that information. That goes to companies trying to sell you things, but it also goes to the federal agencies that want to spy on you and manipulate you with that information.
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That's 1-800-780-8888. Tucker says it best.
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No, so that's why I wrote the second book, The Big Guy, which is Joe Biden's code name that Hunter Biden's former business partners like Tony Bobulinski had to use to refer to Joe Biden because the family was so paranoid about his involvement. And I think, you know, the first book, The Laptop from Hell that we at the New York Post wrote about and then got censored by big tech.
At the time, that was before the 2020 election, and we didn't really understand like how this was happening. We just thought, oh, Twitter and Facebook are just woke and they want Joe Biden to win, so they're censoring us.
But what we found out after the election, in part thanks to Elon Musk opening up the Twitter files and also because of a whole lot of the, once the Republicans took the House in 2022 or after 22, they got to subpoena a whole lot of documents and also interview witnesses. Plus, whistleblowers from the FBI told us that the reason that Twitter and Facebook censored us was because they'd been warned by the FBI for weeks ahead of our story even appearing to look out for a Russian hack and leak operation, likely in October, likely involving Hunter Biden.
And so when Twitter and Facebook saw our story on October 14, 2020, they recognized it immediately as the Russian hack and leak dump. How would the FBI know? Well, the FBI was spying on Rudy Giuliani, who was Donald Trump's personal lawyer.
They, unbeknownst to him, they had a covert surveillance warrant on his iCloud. And so they would have had access to the email that came to him in August of 2020 from John Paul MacIsaac, who was, I think you interviewed him, the laptop repair shop owner who had the laptop that Hunter had abandoned at his shop.
And the FBI had actually subpoenaed that laptop in December of 2019. They had it in their possession.
They'd had it for 10 months

when they were telling Twitter and Facebook, oh no, this is Russian disinformation, you know, you must censor. And then a few days after we were censored, out comes the dirty 51 letter.
And it was the open letter by 51 former intelligence officials, most of them CIA, I think 42 ex-CIA, including John Brennan and Leon Panetta and James Clapper. There were five either directors or acting directors of the CIA who signed that dishonest letter that said that the laptop was Russian disinformation and therefore our reporting was Russian disinformation.
They called it, they said it had all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation. So now, if any of them respond to any questions about it and they just say, well, we didn't say it was Russian disinformation.
We said information operation, same thing. And they knew because they leaked it to Politico and then the Washington Post and New York Times picked it up and all the headlines were Russian disinformation, the laptop.
So, that killed the story stone dead. And two days later, Joe Biden gets up on stage with Donald Trump in the last debate and he uses that letter to basically get out of jail free and the story never ever became anything.
But what we now know is that that letter was not just signed by these formers but that it was cleared by the internal CIA classification review board in record time and even they saw it and thought it was overtly political just three weeks before an election. So they sent it upstairs to Gina Haspel, who was then the CIA director under Donald Trump.
And she gave it the green light to be published immediately. And so the Dirty 51 letter was actually a domestic CIA interference operation with the election.

And, you know, that just boggles your mind.

What happened to Gina Haspel?

Well, she obviously left and she now has a job in some, it's either a law firm or something.

It's one of the, you know, stables that disloyal Democrat lovers end up going and making lots

of money in.

Thank you. one of the stables that disloyal Democrat lovers end up going and making lots of money in.

But never punished, retains their security clearance.

Of course, all of them do, all the 51. And in fact, several of these signatories are not just former CIA people,

but they're active CIA contractors today.

But why not pull that? I've never understood. No one has a right to a security clearance, period.
And people have them pulled all the time. Unpopular people have their security clearances pulled, at which point they can't work with the US government.
And they can't, they don't have access to information that I, as a taxpayer, don't have access to. Why not just pull their security clearances? Like every single one of them, day one.
Well, I mean, that's what Donald Trump should have done. But he had a couple of months, I guess.
And it took a while for this all to settle in, everyone to really understand what they did, that they actually did interfere with the election. Because, I mean, we know now from polls that enough Biden voters would have changed their vote if they'd known about Joe Biden's corruption.

You know, even if they just knew that he'd been lying to the American people during the campaign when he said, I know nothing about my son Hunter's overseas business dealings. And yet we had on the front page an email from Hunter's Ukrainian sort of paymaster from that company, Burisma, who thanked Hunter for introducing him to his father in Washington, DC, the then sitting vice president.
We found out after the election, that was a dinner at Cafe Milano, which you probably know in Georgetown, that Hunter- Gone there all my life. Yeah.
Well, Hunter organized that for his father, the vice president in a private room to meet with his Ukrainian business partners plus Russian plus Kazakhstan. He did a three for one deal in April of 2015.
And Joe Biden denied that he'd ever met these people. He sat down, he had dinner and it was only when the Post, just trying to fact check my story about the Cafe Milano dinner, you know, their four Pinocchios people were very, Glenn Kessler was certain that, you know, I'd made it up or it was wrong.
Their four Pinocchios people. And the White House then admitted to Glenn Kessler, never to me, that yes, Joe Biden did go to that

dinner, but he didn't do it for any nefarious purpose and he only stayed for a short time,

which is not true because someone who was there told me that he was there for the entire dinner.

And he might not, like, it's not like Joe Biden is going to talk about the finer details of,

you know, how much money you're going to pay Hunter, but he just has to show up

and be charming and be the vice president for all the money to flow into Hunter's pockets.

Has he ever answered any substantial questions about this?

No.

The only time that he's sort of asked the questions

is actually by the New York Post's Washington correspondent,

Stephen Nelson, and by Peter Doocy from Fox News. And all they managed to do is shout questions across to him.
But in all the interviews that Biden has done as president in four years, no reporters ever said, let's just go through this for a second. No.
Oh, no. There was someone I think from, might have been cbs it was a woman um they were standing up he gets very aggressive um oh and then the axios there was an axios reporter too he just joe biden people underestimate his aggressiveness he's very good at it you he's very nasty and so if you ask him a question he doesn't like, it's almost like this narcissistic rage.
It's quite frightening. And you see reporters recoil.
And you ask him anything around Hunter's sort of, or the family corruption, because it's just also Joe's younger brother, Jim Biden. He gets very aggressive and nasty and pushes back.
So he's successful in that. Why do the CIA dislike Trump so much? It's clearly not because they thought he was unfit to be president.
They supported a senile man for president. So that's not an important criterion for them.
What's the real reason they hated Trump so much? Because Trump is uncontrollable. He's always been uncontrollable since he was a child.
That's his sort of magic strength, I think, that he won't be told what to do by anybody. And you saw the effect of that during the four years that he was president.
Suddenly, the blob's agenda was to the wayside because Donald Trump treats foreign policy just like domestic policy, just the way he did when he was a property developer in Queens. He acts on first principles, logically, common sense.
He looks at an issue and he goes, oh, this is a problem I'm just going to treat. Like for instance, when he became president, Barack Obama said to him,

the biggest problem that we have is North Korea because Kim Jong-un keeps on detonating all these nuclear pests and he's a problem. And so Donald Trump neutralized that.
He put Kim Jong-un in a box and he was mocked mercilessly for it. You know, little rocket man, it's bromance with Kim Jong-un, but it worked.
Same thing with Putin. You know, Trump's just very belligerent.
He just makes threats and people don't know if he means it or not. I think he threatened Putin that, you know, those lovely domes in Moscow, shame if something happened to them.
And Putin didn't invade any countries

while Trump was president, like he did when Obama was president, like he did immediately when Biden was president. So Putin was in his box.
Iran, on its knees, it was completely broke. It didn't have the money to fund the proxies to attack Israel like it did last October 7.
you know the Middle East

whatever you think I mean the Abraham

Accords were a promise of peace in the Middle East, which had been, you know, the mantra of so many presidents for decades. And suddenly, Trump comes in and he kind of starts to pull it off.
And that was anathema to the blob controllers because the agenda, whatever agenda they have, which I kind of think is still opaque, I don't really understand it completely. But their agenda is the opposite of what the American people want.
And that's why Donald Trump didn't follow their agenda.

And that's why Donald Trump didn't follow their agenda. And that's why he was so successful in foreign policy.
And they don't want that. So I think that the idea that he would become president again is an existential threat to them and their power.
And that's why they will do whatever it takes to ensure that he doesn't win. And we've seen they've attacked him with lawfare, two assassination attempts.
They've totally demonized him. So half the country thinks he's Hitler.
And it still hasn't worked. If he does get elected, I think it's pretty clear he can't really govern with a government like the one we have now or the one we had between 16 and 20 do you think it'll be possible to in four years uproot the rot i i mean no i don't think so although the thing is he's much wiser than we all are, than we were.
I look back even in 2020 and think how naive we were. I mean, this happens all the time.
Like in 2016, you think you're naive after the Iraq war, you think you're naive. You really, you can never be too cynical, I think.
And so he knows a lot more now. And he knows, he knew that the deep state was a problem, but I don't think he realised the extent they would go to to cripple his administration, which they pretty successfully did.
It's amazing he achieved as much as he did considering he had the Russia hoax hanging over him, the Mueller investigation. You know, he's just coming out of but into the clear and then COVID hit.
So I think he'll be older and wiser.

I think he'll be older and wiser. I think he will not be as naive about the people he puts around him.
He admits himself that he made mistakes in personnel. And I think that's why this demonization of the Project 2025 or whatever it is from the Heritage Foundation has been so effective because they know that what Trump needs is a really good group of 2,000 people to install day one in his administration.
And that was really the central premise of Project 2025. But I think he's got a good group of people, like he's got Howard Lutnick, who knows about how to hire 2,000 good people at a moment's notice because he had to do it with Cantor Fitzgerald after September 11th.
And now he's got Elon Musk, you, RFK Jr. He's got a phalanx of smart people who are not sort of traditional Republicans, but who are wise about the deep state and the kind of existential threat to democracy that they are, even though they project that and demonize Trump for it.
And so, a lot of people, Silicon Valley, they see that Trump is actually the answer and not the problem. And so they're backing him.
So you would hope with that brain's trust that he's going to be able to at least make a dent on it. I don't think in four years he's going to be able to solve the problem of the CIA, the FBI and the State Department, but he'll probably fire, you know, the top three layers and it'll be messy and they will probably stage, I don't know, I mean, the worst thing you can imagine, I don't want to jinx it, but, you know, terrorist, domestic terrorist attacks.
America's been thankfully free of that, unlike England, Australia, most countries have had Islamist terrorist attacks, unlike America. So, whether that's because American culture intrinsically sort of allows immigrants to feel American, so they don't hate America as much, or because, I don't know, CIA, FBI did a great job.

I don't know. But I would imagine that that'll be used as an excuse and a way to weaken Trump.
But he's only got one term. That seems likely to me.
Is it? Yeah. I would think so.
Yeah, that and pulling the supports out from underneath the economy. yes because

Janet Yellen's been

propping up Joe Biden's economy

in the stock market.

Yeah.

That's ugly.

I just want to go back for one moment to Biden's behavior as vice president.

Pretty out in the open.

I mean, his son Hunter's flying around the world raising money on his father's name. What does Barack Obama, the then president, think of this? Yeah, that was strange.
I mean, he was aware of Joe Biden's corruption issues because when they were vetting Biden to be vice president, this was a major issue and Hunter had to resign from various lobbying gigs that he had and was very resentful of it. In fact, he resented Obama and the Obama White House because they kept on putting crimps on his ability to use the White House to make money.
And like, for instance, when Hunter first joined the Burisma board, his best friend in business, Devin Archer, who is now an anti-Biden person, but was then on the Burisma board with Hunter, he was invited with Hunter to the White House to meet with Joe Biden and ostensibly for a school project. But what came out of it was a photograph of Joe Biden, the vice president with Hunter's business partner, Devin Archer, just joined the board of Burisma.
Hunter took the photo. Burisma put that photo on their website and that became a problem for the White House when they realised.
So the sort of ethics czar or the White House Council actually contacted Hunter Biden's business partner, another business partner and said, quick, take it down. So it was an emergency situation, but it was enough.
It was seen and it was enough of an embarrassment for David Ignatius, of all people, at the Washington Post to write a column excoriating Joe Biden for being so sloppy. David Ignatius being the CIA spokesman at the Washington Post.
Yeah. Yeah.
Foreign policy columnist. Like Philip Bump.
So what about that? You spent your life in journalism. You're the daughter of a famous journalist.
At what point did the overwhelming majority of journalists become more loyal to the CIA than to their readers? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, my father was a journalist in Tokyo in the 1960s, and he said it was crawling with spies then.
So, journalism, especially in the Cold War, was full of, well, those august publications like New York Times, Washington Post, full of spies back then. I mean, your dad would know as well from, because he was a journalist in that era.
I think it was really journalism and spies were good friends and great sources and also kind of interchangeable in some ways so maybe nothing has changed well i think that's actually fair now that you're saying it out loud i think that is that is in fact i think i know for a fact that that's true so you're right but the difference is that i think the cia used well we used to think

i don't know if i even question myself about this now but we used to think that they're on the side of the angels like they were promoting truth justice in the american way and that was a good thing but i think they've turned you know they are now not acting in america's best interest i don't know if a rogue element has crept in. I don't know if, you know, because they recruit smart kids from universities and those kids have already been brainwashed.
John Brennan was a communist, you know, like known to be at one point. So maybe just the people they're recruiting have changed the culture of the CIA to be more anti-American, like the universities are, like the institutions are.
So maybe that's just an organic thing that's happened. But certainly they're not acting in the best interests of what the American people want.
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18 plus. certainly now though it's it's pretty obvious that there's a massive disconnect between the agenda of the blob state department dod cia nsa all the all the armed federal agencies and american voters there's just not really a big overlap between what one group wants and what the country itself wants.
So at some point, don't journalists have to say, well, I don't know. I'm supposed to represent my readers or viewers.
They don't seem to have any sense of loyalty or obligation to the people they're supposedly serving. Yeah, but think about the New York Times and the Washington Post.
Who are the people that they're serving? Who really are the subscribers of the New York Times? We don't have any visibility into that. Do you think the New York Times really cares if the CCP buys up a million subscriptions at $1 a pop? The Washington Post, they're serving the blob.
That's their people. They're the- Do you think it's possible that foreign governments buy subscriptions in bulk to try to influence news organizations? I don't know, but it makes sense.
It does. And we don't know if it is happening or not because that's all proprietary information.
And why would the New York Times look closely at um the golden egg that the foreign goose laid well that's like that's a fascinating possibility i mean you know that foreign governments intel services are all over social media i mean all well that's one of the things we learned when elon musk bought twitter is that foreign governments a number of foreign governments had employees working there well and the cia, and the CIA and the FBI had, there were so many at Twitter that they had like a support group, like they had their own Slack channel. A support group.
And remember James Baker, he was the general counsel for the FBI during all the right, he was involved in all that Russia collusion stuff. He was certainly there in the room.
And then suddenly, eight months before the 2020 election, he gets parachuted into Twitter as their number two lawyer. And he was involved, we now know from the Twitter files, intimately in the censorship of the New York Post.
There were people at Twitter, including the much maligned Yoel Roth, who was the chief censor. He was actually pushing back on this FBI, CIA censorship.
But James Baker was- Can I just ask you to pause? That's such a smart point. Yoel Roth, there was something about him.
He was easy to hate and blame, but it turned out Yoel Roth was by far. He was a good guy.
Exactly. Yeah.
Exactly. Yeah, it's sad.
Well, it is sad. Have you ever spoken to him? No, but he wrote a sworn declaration for a separate court case in which he was just honest.
He said that he was the one that told us that the FBI came in and said, look out for this Russian disinformation in October about under Biden. So I've always had a soft spot for him.
I thought, well, he's one of the few people there who's been truthful. He doesn't seem to have an agenda.
You said that the FBI knew, I'm sorry, I'm jumping around, but there's just so much. You said that the FBI knew that the laptop was coming, your reporting was on the way, because they were spying on Rudy Giuliani, the president's lawyer, which is pretty shocking that they would do that.
They never found anything. Well, I know that we were being surveilled at that.
I know for a fact, in October of 2020 um my producers and i were being surveilled by the innocent i'm i don't know by somebody who stole a a um a hard drive with images from hunter's laptop out of the ups sorting center in new york um do you have you ever thought that because you've reported on this so extensively for so long that maybe your communications are not secure? Oh, I'm sure they're not. Yeah.
In fact, when I talked to new people, like there were some NYPD, former NYPD people, sorry, FBI and NYPD people, they said to me, we're going to meet. We had to meet in person.
They didn't trust. They said to me, your phones, you know, I know you mean well, but there'll be people listening in on you.
So I'm just... Listening to the conversation in the room through the mic on the phone.
I don't know. I don't know how they do it.
I mean, just the fact we have our phones with us, people who are super secure conscience, including Wall Street people and so on, they leave their phones outside. But I kind of think I'm a journalist.
And so if I'm meeting with sources that don't want, so I always meet in person anyway, or we communicate with encrypted apps, which are probably not safe, but there are a couple that are maybe okay.

When your reporting was censored,

did anybody in the White House press corps or any fellow journalists you knew from other publications

extend sympathy and say to you,

like, I think this is wrong, what's happening?

I mean, how did other journalists respond?

Well, the usual ones you would expect would did,

so the conservative ones.

But no, I mean, I remember Maggie Haberman, who used to work at the New York Post, now New York Times star anti-Trump person. But she's just a normal reporter, like she actually has good curiosity still.
And so, she tweeted our story because it was amazing. And there was another reporter, young reporter, I think from Politico or somewhere who also retweeted, just like, oh, look what the New York Post has got, October surprise.
And they were excoriated on Twitter by journalism professors for having the audacity to promote our story. What's a journalism professor? Yeah, exactly.
A propaganda professor, maybe. That's what they are now.
Is it a job that requires a specialized degree, do you think? I did a degree at Northwestern. No way! I did a master's in journalism.
It didn't hurt you. And it was the best thing I ever did.
Oh, come on. No, it was brilliant.
It was brilliant. This was in 96.
So it hadn't been polluted. And there were some fantastic real journalists there.
Chicago, not Columbia. So Chicago was okay then.
Incredible. Yeah.
No, it was wonderful. I learned so much about just the basics of journalism.
And there was no propaganda. Well, you just overturned my preconception.
But I think it's different now. Yeah, you think? I look at Northwestern, I see what happens, but, and Columbia.
And the difference is that the new breed of journalists think that they have to change the world. And that's why they're slumming it and becoming journalists and not going to wall street you know i think if they were smart enough to uh lend money for a living they would i think we're getting the dumb ones so what what exactly happened to joe biden is he still i mean he has escaped any punishment for the many crimes that you've detailed at some length.

I don't think that's overstatement to say you've detailed the crimes of Joe Biden. He's never been punished, never will be, I don't think.
Is he still running the country? Was he ever running the country? Well, that's right, of course. Yeah.
I mean, if you saw him in 2020 in, you know, on the campaign trail, basically in Iowa and New Hampshire, it was obvious that he was cognitively shot. He'd have to have Dr.
Jill lead him across the stage to make a stupid speech. He had teleprompters dragged into tiny town halls because no one was interested in him just to do basic stump speeches that any other politician could do in their sleep.
So it was amazing that things were rigged and that people like Amy Klobuchar and Pete Buttigieg just agreed to step aside for him. But I guess he was the only palatable available candidate that they had that they could pretend was a moderate to the American people.
But I think with Joe Biden, sort of a mystery, everyone now is saying, oh, you know, he's senile. But I think with all these cognitive decline problems, it sort of waxes and wanes.
And remember, he had those aneurysms back in, I think, the 80s. He had a couple of pretty serious brain bleeds.
I remember very well. And brain operations.
So, you don't know how that factors in. And because I know people and foreign sort of heads of state who have met with Joe Biden behind closed doors for extended periods in Washington, D.C., from two different countries.
And they said he was completely lucid. This is halfway through his presidency.
And I'm going, come on, no way. You can tell me.
It's off the record. No, no, they said.
No, absolutely. He was compass mentis.
He was running the agenda. Everyone around him, like Antony Blinken, was deferring to him.
He only had talking points on a piece of paper that he referred to occasionally, but he was definitely in charge. So that's the good Joe Biden.
But then someone else I spoke to who was there at one of those G20 or G8 summits in Cornwall in England said that, and remember there was footage of Joe Biden sort of wandering around aimlessly and looking lost. And apparently he was completely out of it there.
He was, you know, goosing Boris Johnson's wife and just acting very inappropriately. And so I think that jet lag and, you know, the time of day when they can't quite control his environment, that the senility sort of creeps in.
But he still has lucid moments and maybe long moments. And we saw that every time he had to do a big set piece, except the debate against Donald Trump, when it almost seemed like they let him out without a safety net, you know, late at night when he'd been doing all this traveling and it was almost like he was set up to fail.
And I think now he probably, you know, he's had sleep. He hasn't had to travel as much.
He's vacationing all the time at his beach house. So I think he's probably in the best cognitive shape he's been in for a while.
And he seems to be pretty lucid. You know, when you see him out giving speeches, when he's undercutting Kamala Harris, as he did twice in the last few weeks, when he said she picked a fight with Ron DeSantis over the hurricane.
And Joe Biden just seamlessly comes in and says, Ron DeSantis is a great guy. I talk to him all the time.
When he cut in, she was going to do a big speech in Detroit, where she was going to take credit for ending the Longshoremen's impending strike. And Joe Biden, just that moment, decides to make an appearance in the Washington, you know, the press room for the first time ever.
And of course, all the cameras cut from Detroit straight to Joe Biden. He didn't have much to say other than to say that he and Kamala Harris were joined at the hip, that we were singing from this, you know, we're on the same page and she's trying to turn the page.
So I think that he's, and there's been reporting from behind the scenes that he's angry that Kamala Harris is trying to, or her campaign's trying to distance her from him and throwing him under the bus and trying to reject Bidenomics. She went to, I think, Pittsburgh and gave this economic speech in which, either Pittsburgh or Chicago, in which she didn't mention Bidenomics.
She did not pay tribute to Joe Biden for the fabulous economy that he's given everyone. So he was angry about that apparently and Dr.
Jill's angry as well do you think it would be i mean kamala harris has got to be as controlled as joe biden was correct same people they're same people you saw there was a letter like the dirty 51 letter was they i mean i got 251 people from the national security establishment um some of them the same as the Dirty 51, about eight or nine of them were the same, including Leon Panetta. And they're just saying that Kamala Harris is the most competent commander in chief that we could have, far superior to Donald Trump.
And she's so unworthy of that. Incredible that these people would put their reputations on the line leon panetta former ca director former congressman from california kind of an idiot um i can say since i know him um hard to believe he ran ca but he is telling us that kamala harris is the most qualified person to be president united states yeah yeah far superior in every way to Donald Trump.
But if you'll say that, then you'll say anything. Like, the reality doesn't matter to you.
Like that Hunter Biden's laptop is Russian disinformation. They just lie.
And they get away with it. And they're treated like, you know, eminent people.
So you're an Australian who's lived in the United States for many, many years. I think it's fair to say not to speak for you, but you love America, I think.
I was born in America. I'm an American citizen.
Is that true? I was born in Queens, New York, just like Donald Trump. Really? Yes.
How? Because my parents, I'm an anchor baby. Oh, nice.
So my parents were foreign correspondents. My dad was a foreign correspondent.
And they were in New York. So I spent my first two years here.
So, okay. So as an American citizen who's lived in this country a long time.
A dual national, one of those evil globalists. Are you really? You've got another passport.
Yeah. And I grew up in a lot of countries.
So I'm sort of, I'm one of those people. Well, you are kind of rootless.
I'm a globalist. Rootless cosmopolitan, yeah.
But I mean, sometimes people who've lived a lot of places have a clearer perspective on this. If you have a country where nobody believes in the leadership, doesn't believe that they're morally justified in what they're doing, doesn't believe they're telling the truth about anything, assumes that their lips are moving, they're lying.
How does your country continue? Don't you need that trust to have a voluntary system? Yeah. A democracy? But look, America is the last country where there is some sort of freedom and some sort of hope that the people can take back control of their government again.
And I think that's because there's a, you know, residual feeling among Americans because of the revolution, because they are untameable like Donald Trump and they're sort of outlaws in a way. And also because of the constitution, the first amendment, the second amendment, you know, that protects America from the sort of censorship that we've seen descend on Europe and Australia and New Zealand.
And I know from Australia that people are like frogs in boiling water. They don't actually realise what's happened, particularly since COVID.
COVID, like Jane Fonda said, was a great boon to the left. She saw that very early on and it allowed a lot of censorship initially about, you know, to save us our health because of COVID to stop naughty scientists like Jay Bhattacharya and Marty McCary telling the truth about COVID, that it wasn't actually as lethal as everyone said, and that masks made no difference, and that the vaccine was not needed for young people, and that it was probably bad for them.
So all of that censorship that worked so well when everyone was afraid, I think gave a green light to the bad guys in control, allowed them to see that, wow, we could do that in COVID, we can do whatever we like. And that's what's happened in Europe and Australia, England.
And in America, we see it. The good thing is that it's sort of, they've tried to do it and they sort of succeeded.
And I did the deep dive on the laptop. And so it happened there and it happened with COVID.
Even memes about Jill Biden were being censored, but because of Elon Musk, because of the Twitter files and because enough Americans have woken up and are just, I don't know, in their DNA, they despise overlords. So they're rejecting it.
And I think that's what this election is about. You know, you've got the untameable, uncontrollable Donald Trump versus just another cipher of the blob.
One of the reasons this moment is so bewildering is because it's so confusing. What is going on? One of the reasons we're confused is because honest history is no longer taught in the United States except in a few very small pockets.
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No. So I do think Elon buying Twitter was a pivotal event in American history.
And I still don't understand why he did it. Why do you think he did it? I kind of think it was a mistake in a way.
Yes. He sort of said that.
He sort of got, it was a spur of the moment whim. And then if he could have got out of it, he probably would have, because it's been a terrible burden for him.
And he's now the target of so much sort of lawfare and deep state interference. And look, California's just stopped him from being able to set off some of his rockets.
I mean, he's such a genius. NASA needed him to rescue our astronauts.
That should have been a huge scandal that they had two astronauts up there just abandoned and they couldn't get them back. Elon's the only person who could get them back.
He just had a rocket come back to Earth when that never happened before and land back in the launcher or whatever it is. But I mean, he's just brilliant.
And so they're trying to hobble him. He's hard to hobble, but I think he's public enemy number one next to Trump.
I mean, as long as X is open, as long as you have truth telling or free speech at scale like that, it's pretty hard to turn your country totalitarian. Yes.
So, can they, I mean, do you think the people, you know, the John Brennans of the world, the Barack Obamas of the world, people who do want to make it Stalinist, do people like that allow X to stay open? Well, see, what they've done, which is clever, is that only half the country has been red-pilled and understands what's going on. And the other half of the country, which is the well-educated part of the country that lives in Washington and New York and San Francisco and places, and earn lots of money and think of themselves as being superior.
What's happened is that they've been pitted against these troglodytes of the right, the ultra-maga, the semi-fascist, as Joe Biden called Trump supporters. And so Joe Biden did a very good job of dividing Americans against each other.
And there really is now just an accepted view of half of America as that they're fat, that they're morally inferior, that really we'd be better off without them.

They're morally inferior?

A hundred percent.

So, Epstein's clients are calling other people morally inferior.

Exactly.

Incredible.

Do you know any of them?

Any of the people you're describing?

Well, I live among them.

I mean, I live in Manhattan.

So, I mean, I see them.

I guess I'm not great friends with them.

But I guess they're not our readers, really.

They're not necessarily New York Post.

So, is it your sense that they have no idea what's actually happening no they really didn't think joe biden had dementia before that debate well they really thought the covid vac stopped covid yeah i i do think that these people you know they are so ignorant and naive you see it when like like Martha Raddatz interviewing JD Vance. I think she genuinely thought to herself, what's a few apartment complexes, a handful of apartment complexes being taken over by Venezuelan gangs of illegal migrants, big deal.
I mean, she really, that's the way they think. It's not that they're making it up.
It's just that they live in this bubble because they didn't really know that there was an illegal migrant invasion going on because the New York Times and the Washington Post never told them. And it's not in Bethesda.
It should be in Bethesda. Yeah.
It's creeping around. I mean, it's in New York.
It's very hard to ignore it now in New York. But the clever thing they do about that is they conflate migrants.
They just call them migrants so that it looks like Donald Trump is anti-immigration, which he's not. What he is, he's anti-illegal immigration.
And when you have 10 to 15 million, maybe more illegal migrants that you haven't vetted, as Clinton just let the cat out of the bag the other day, come in to rape and murder and pillage and take over apartment complexes in Aurora, Colorado. I mean, that's a huge problem.
And that's something that the New York Times, the Washington Post kept from their readers. So, while conservatives or Trump supporters, we know everything.
We know reality because we know the real reality via X and sort of fringe conservative publications like the New York Post. But we also know their reality because it's forced on us.
We have to live in their reality. I mean, maybe not in Northern Maine, but certainly if you live in New York or LA or anywhere, Chicago, you are aware of the contempt with which these people hold conservatives and Trump supporters.
But they don't. They live in their bubble.
They're not aware of reality like the migrant invasion. They're not really probably aware of Joe Biden's senility because when those videos are shown endlessly on Hannity, for instance, of Joe Biden bumbling around getting lost on a stage, all those things, falling upstairs, they don't really see those.
And they were trained into thinking that anyone who shows those, it's false. It's, what was that fake word they had? Cheap fakes.
Cheap fakes. Yeah.
Cheap fakes. So, they're so naive and so propagandized, but the journalists themselves are.
And you see thenn panels now where this kentucky republican called scott jennings goes on and um kind of red pills them and they're all just astounded that he's telling them just these basic things that that any normal are happening in their country but they have no sense of it because they're all in newton mass or yeah martha's vineyard or whatever and they only consume the media that propagandizes them and keeps them in the dark deliberately. So they're old and cut off.
I mean, they're what the hippies used to accuse their parents of being. They're totally out of touch.
Elitist. Exactly.
Living in a bubble. Wealthy.
Yeah. Yeah.
Nothing affects them. But so why wouldn't, I mean, a fair country for Martha Raddatz to live in an MS-13 controlled housing project for a few years? Well, she probably will soon.
I mean, that's what's going to, that's the effect of this invasion. It's every single part of America eventually is going to be.
Including all over the state of Maine for the record. Really? Filled with African immigrants.
Yeah, filled. The cities are filled.
Oh, absolutely. Makes sense.
They've been flying. Immediately, you know, falling apart, displacing the people who were born there.
Oh, yeah, landlords are paid to give preference to non-citizens from Africa over American citizens. Right.
In housing, not just public housing, but just any housing in the state of Maine. Yeah, and that's true in rural places around the country.
The country is the worst thing that's ever happened in the United States, including the Civil War. And people just are kind of ignoring it.
Well, Springfield, Ohio, that was the genius of Donald Trump. Yes.
They're eating the cats. They're eating the pets.
I mean, and it became memes. And, you know, the fact checkers at Times, Washington Post, just very angry with him for telling lies and they went searching for cats that were eaten and claimed there were none.
But the brilliance of that one line was it just brought the focus on Springfield, Illinois and other towns, Springfield, Ohio and other towns like it that have been inundated secretly in the dead of night with plane loads of illegal migrants brought from the border. We tracked them into Westchester.
We were pretty much the only media that were there at three in the morning at Westchester Airport watching these plane loads of illegals arrive and get put into buses that had their names blanked out and just driven off to the tri-state area, dropped off at truck stops on the New Jersey turnpike and taken away by God knows who. And that was happening, that was the summer of 21.
And that was happening all over the country and has been, Majorca's has orchestrated this amazing kind of infiltration of every corner of the country. You can almost see him with a map looking at like red areas and going, ha, ha, I'm good.
Literally facilitating the movement of human beings through the Darien Gap, up through Latin America in the United States. Mayorkas himself doing that.
And flying them in as well. Oh, of course.
So now they tell you, you can't say that they're illegal migrants. You get fact-checked to death.
They are illegal, but it's just that they've been given this humanitarian parole that makes them, they can't be deported. So they're still illegal, but they're in this sort of netherworld that the Biden administration has created so that they can pretend that the illegal migration invasion has sort of slowed down.
Yep. Total destruction of the country.
It's hard to even think about it. It's so distressing.
It was such a nice place. So how, okay, so Joe Biden, we're right in the middle of this, so it's hard to get perspective on Biden.
And he's kind of fallen out of the headlines because the party decided that he was no longer useful and they replaced him. But how will history understand Biden, do you think? Well, I hope that the mythology that Joe Biden built for himself over 50 years is completely punctured.
he did have like several of these pet historians used to come to the white house all the time and

whisper sweet nothings over 50 years is completely punctured. He did have like several of these pet historians

used to come to the White House all the time

and whisper sweet nothings in his ear

and tell him he was the second coming of FDR.

So they were-

Whatever happened to,

there was a kid from New,

a kid, he's my age,

who used to be the editor of Newsweek,

particularly unctuous little toady from-

What's his name?

Tennessee. Yes.
He's an Episcopalian. I know that I remember that because I am too.
He's an awful little creepy guy. Yeah.
He's one of them. But so here's a speech writer.
That's exactly right. And he was a journalist.
Yeah. Do you think, let me just pause really quick.
Do you think when someone like that shows up to tell Joe Biden, effectively an intellectual invalid, that you are Pericles, you're Churchill, do you think they believe that?

No, but I mean, what access they have. They're just almost giddy.
You see them on MSNBC. They're just giddy with their own self-importance because who gets invited like eight times

to the White House? I think they go into his residence and he just loves that. Like, tell me more about myself and how consequential I am.
I don't know. I've been invited more than eight times to the White House.
I've never kissed anybody's ass. I don't understand the impulse.
Yeah, but you're uncontrollable. No, but I feel like I'm a pretty moderate, sensible person, but I don't know.
I'm an adult man. I don't want to sniff any throne.
No. That's all they have.
They want prestige. They want to be...
It's so low. Yes.
Don't you think? Disgusting. It's like, you've got children.
What do they think of you? As you're telling Joe Biden, he's impressive? Like, how does your family respect you if you talk like that? I don't get it. Well, they probably don't.
Well, I think that's probably right. Yeah.
Sorry, I interrupted you. No, it's fascinating.
They're gross, those historians. But I think ultimately that there is enough, you know, the Republicans, even though they're criticized.
John Meacham is the name. John Meacham, that's him.
Yeah. Tiny little man in stature and spirit.
Yeah, it's just a perfect, and it's interesting. I remember I knew him sort of, because I think we're born the same year, 1969, I'm pretty sure.
And I remember in the 90s being at some event, some party, Tina Brown's house in New York, and he was there and he was like the editor of Newsweek. And I remember thinking, wow, that's a pretty amazing job for a man who's not even 30, maybe 30.
And then I realized over time getting to, I spent more time with him, he just, all he did was kiss ass. That's it.
It was like his whole gig was just sucking up. And it's not good to have a system where that's rewarded.
He would have been in his element at a Tina Brown party in Manhattan. I know.
I shouldn't even. Well, I mean, I was 29 myself.
That's my excuse. But Newsweek is not what it used to be.
I mean, I think he presided over the fag end of it. I don't think, you know, they would have put anyone in there.
And it wasn't as, it seemed prestigious at the time, but it wasn't really prestigious. When you say he presided over the fag end of it, what do you mean? Just the end.
Just the end. Okay, just the end.
Sorry. I'm not coming there.
So Biden, we had this period like maybe a year ago when people were telling us that Biden was a true statesman, probably the greatest president we ever had, sharp as a tack. And then in one day back in June, it became clear that was all I had like this guy couldn't even find his way back to his bedroom.
Except when he could. Except when he could.
Yeah. Let me ask you about that.
What was that? I mean, do you, so we went in one day from, you know, having to listen to Morning Joe

tell us how brilliant he was to Morning Joe admitting that he was demented. Was that a setup? I just think that when Pelosi and Schumer and whoever is behind things decided that he was a liability, Joe Biden, because he was not popular.
He couldn't win the election. Trump was trouncing him in the polls.
So, and he's just repellent, you know, people got to know him and realise that the mythology of Joe Biden is honest Joe, middle-class Joe from Scranton. All of that was a lie, that he's actually an incredibly prideful, boastful, like pathological liar.
I mean, we saw that with the plagiarism, but also just those self-aggrandizing stories he tells all the time about, you know, he's there with Nelson Mandela, like every big historic thing that happened, he's in the centre of it. He's very much like Tim Walsh in that way.
So people came to see that and see how ridiculous he was. And also the worst, I think, was just how nasty he is.
And I think, you know, he's lost that filter in his brain that stops him from publicly losing his temper. I'm sure at home he was losing his temper a lot with his, you know, and I think that's partly Hunter's problem.
But we saw that on stage and, you know, when he's wagging his finger and snarling about Ultra Maga. I think that's not very American.
Americans seem to me to be very cordial, generous-spirited people. Who have affection for each other.
Who have affection for each other. Yeah, very much so.
And I think that congeniality to me is one of the striking aspects of America that's quite different from other English-speaking countries I've been in. So, Biden is sort of the opposite of that.
He really is,

although he's pitched as sort of Mr. America, I think he's very un-American in a lot of ways.

And he is very admiring of people like Antony Blinken, europhiles. He's not like that.
He's

not well-educated, but he really admires those State Department types who are patrician and went to finishing school in Switzerland. He does? And went to school.
Yeah, Antony Blinken. Well, Antony Blinken went to school in Paris, as we know.
Right, but he finds that impressive. Oh, yes.
Very much. Insecure son of a car dealer.
Yeah. So easily won by dumb affectations.
I mean, Blinken's like an idiot. And look at the way he dresses.
Who? Joe Biden. He, remember Kitty Kelly did this incredibly insightful interview with the young senator just after he came to Washington, just after his wife and baby daughter were killed in a car crash that Hunter was in and was injured in.
And Joe Biden's there in his office and she described him as dressing like the Great Gatsby, like very elaborate, very expensive clothes and boasting about his like sex life with his ex-wife, with his, sorry, his dead wife saying um saying you know all the guys were jealous of me because we had the best sex and um and then saying he said that out loud yeah oh you you have to read this kitty kelly piece it's so illuminating i i quoted huge chunks of it in laptop from hell it's brilliant and um and then he talks about all these women are throwing themselves at him. And then he does this other boast because he grew up just admiring the Kennedys, Catholics like him, Democrats.
And he tried to recreate the Kennedy compound. He used to go to Nantucket rather than Martha's Vineyard.
If you look at his political career. He's really modelled it very much on the Kennedy clan.
And he wanted to have a, you know, the Kennedy kind of dynasty. So his son Beau was supposed to be the next generation.
And sadly, he died of brain cancer. But Joe Biden, I think just in that interview shows who he really is.
And it's quite a disgusting portrayal of himself. And he talks about the Kennedys and he says, Rose Kennedy's calling me all the time, inviting me for dinner, but I'm too busy.
That's just unbelievable. So it sounds like, I mean, you really spent a long time learning about, reading about, doing interviews about Joe Biden.

How does your view of him change the more you learned?

Well, I mean, initially, I used to like him because I thought, gosh, he's a moderate Democrat.

He's a Democrat that I could live with.

He's great.

And I went full circle.

I find him deeply dishonest, deeply flawed.

I think he was a terrible father.

You do?

Yeah.

How?

Well, you see the product.

Yes.

Right?

Well, fair.

And both his children, Hunter and Ashley, have proven like they've admitted drug problems.

And I think Hunter was a motherless boy. His mother had been killed and Joe Biden had just got this huge job in Washington, the opportunity of his lifetime.
He wasn't going to give that up to stay home with his two motherless boys. So he went, he said, oh, you know, I was going to, but then people talked me out of it.
And so he goes to DC. He gets immediately adopted by all these grand pooh bars of the party because their wives were telling them, oh, this poor, everyone, the whole of America, their heartstrings were tugged by this tragedy of this young widow.
I mean, it was a terrible tragedy, but Joe Biden exploited it in the most cynical fashion. Just that photograph, which when I first saw her, I was like everyone else.
I just felt desperately sad for these two little bandaged boys in the hospital bed in the foreground of the photographs where Joe Biden's being sworn in as senator by their bedside just after his wife's been killed. And you think to yourself, wow.
But then when you see other photographs pulled back and you see that hospital room is full of just dozens and dozens of photographers and reporters and everything, and the kids look quite distressed as they would be. And why did he do it there? Why didn't he get sworn in in the corridor outside, you know, or somewhere else? He did it because he knew the power of that image.
And it was brilliant. And he used it in every campaign since.
But it's cynical. And to be able to have the presence of mind to do that tells you a little bit about how ruthless he is and how fixated on power he is.
And I think that was, you know, I think that was the experience for Hunter.

And you see that in a lot of the private, you know, which I read, but I didn't publish a lot of it, but the musings. He's quite a good writer.
He's highly intelligent. I think more intelligent than his father.
At least he's not, I think Joe Biden's probably illiterate. I mean, from the little bit of writing that he's done on the laptop, he doesn't spell, he's got that trademark spelling problems that, you know, boys who never learn to read have.
And so I think Joe's probably cleverer than we think, but he just is illiterate. Like he can't read very well.
Come on. Really? Yeah.
I think that's why he has such a problem with, like the worst thing you could do to Joe Biden is put him in front of a teleprompter. And I think, yes, I mean, cognitively he slipped, but also I don't think he, like you notice when he comes across words that are long or complicated or like people's surnames that you can't guess.
He just can't do them. So, and you know, I mean, I've done a lot of stories about phonics, you know, the failure of kids to be taught, especially boys, especially clever boys who they have dyslexia or something.
It's really that a third of boys will never learn to read by that look and say, that guessing way. They have to be taught to sound things out by phonics.
And I think when Joe Biden was being taught by the nuns, they just didn't teach him that way. So a lot of boys of his era slipped under the cracks.
And I think he was clever enough to be able to get by, by memory and cunning. He's renowned as not really reading his briefs.
He can be told something and remember it. But you look at him in those Senate hearings, he just talks nonsense.
In the texts and emails on Hunter's laptop, how does he come across? How does he come across? There's not a lot of him. It's just a shadow of him.
He cares about Hunter, but he cares about him. He's absent until he's about to announce that he's running for president.
Then he really cares about Hunter. Like, where are you? We've got to get your drugs under control sort of thing.
And dispatched his brother to go and put Hunter in rehab. And the reason Hunter was so angry in April of 2019 when he abandoned his laptop was because he felt that his family, Joe, although he doesn't say it to Joe, threw him under the bus.
And he blames Joe's staff, but it was really Joe because there was a Maureen Dowd column that Hunter was particularly enraged about, which was basically saying that Joe Biden's running for president, but the big albatross around his neck is his loser son, Hunter, who's a drug addict. And Hunter was furious.
And that's where all those texts and emails come out that he says, I've supported this family for years. I've given half my salary to dad.
How dare you all treat me with such disrespect? He was absolutely furious. And his relationship with his father is so complicated because he adores him as his only parent after his mother was killed.
But he also is like, he's just his hostage because there is no mother, no somebody who loves you more than that they love Joe, that loves the child. And so he was sort of a victim of Joe Biden's selfishness and whims and the entire Biden family.
So Joe's sister Val moved in to take care of the boys after Joe left. Joe said he was commuting every night from Washington on Amtrak, but I'm told that's not really true, that when he did come home, that the boys were already in bed.
So maybe he had breakfast with them the next morning, but he wasn't a present dad. But Val was fantastic.
His sister really sacrificed her first marriage to look after those boys. And Hunter regards her as his real mother.
and then Jill Biden comes into the picture a few years later and she's sort of the mean stepmother that Hunter doesn't get on with. Bo got on with her because Bo was the perfect child, golden haired boy, but Hunter was like a little bit ADHD, a little bit rebellious, a bit naughty and used to get in trouble.
And I think that didn't work with Jill. And so he and Jill had a difficult relationship.
And so, you know, I think Hunter loved his father, but also deeply resented him and resented the fact that Joe put Bo, the older brother, by one year and one day on a pedestal and saw Bo as being the inheritor of the Biden dynasty, political dynasty. And Hunter was sort of the spare that was supposed to go out and earn the money that would allow Joe and Bo to be clean politically.
So Hunter wanted to be an artist or a novelist, and he's quite a good artist and quite a good writer, but he wasn't allowed to. He had to go and work for his father's donors in Delaware in this really boring job at this credit card company, MBNA, for a hugely inflated salary that allowed him to pay off his Yale Law School and Georgetown University fees, but also Bo's university tuition.
So that Joe- He paid off his brother's student loans? Yeah. So Joe never had to put his hand in his pocket for anything.
And that's where people miss the point of how Joe benefited.

That's amazing. Hunter Biden paid Bo's college tuition.
He complains about it to his Aunt Val. He said, dad didn't pay a penny.
That's amazing. Yeah.
So he has every right to be resentful about that, I think. I think so, yeah.
So it it's the youngest sons the workhorse paying for the pretty lavish um lifestyles and political careers of his older brother and dad exactly and joe knew that and he knew that hunter had a at least a substance abuse problem that was evident i mean he was arrested at 18 for cocaine, right, and let off. So, he had this problem.
Joe knew about it. And yet, Joe allowed him to take millions of dollars in unaccountable cash, which was to a drug addict, just an impossible temptation.
Hunter actually says that in his memoir. He says that the Burisma money when it was coming in, $83,000 a month, that just sent him into a complete spin, fell off the wagon.
And what kind of a loving father does that to his addicted son? My read on it is that Joe does love his son, but in a kind of- Narcissistic. Yes.
Infantile way, exactly.

Narcissistic way, where it's all about the reflected glory of his son, but not really about the son.

Yeah.

And that's hard if you're a sensitive person.

Well, it's awful.

It's absolutely awful.

And Hunter was a legit drug addict.

Yeah.

You know, tormented by the desire to be high all the time.

Yeah.

And so, what role does Jill, pardon me, Dr. Jill play in all this? Well, she seemed, actually in one way I thought she was a bad wife.
Like unlike Nancy Reagan, who was always at her husband's side to make sure that he didn't get humiliated. I couldn't understand why Jill Biden wasn't there with Joe when he was getting lost on stage and just looking like a fool on camera.
She should have been more present, but she wasn't in a lot of ways because she was out on the campaign trail herself. She was taking Air Force One to Paris and just doing her own campaigning, supposedly campaigning, But she loved it.
I think she loves the glory. She's got this factotum working for her.
Anthony, I can't remember his name. He's a sort of gay, one of those sort of men that attaches themselves to- He's sort of gay or pretty gay? I think he's pretty gay, yeah.
But he's Joe's everything. She calls him her work husband.
And he's made himself invaluable to her. Sounds totally healthy and normal.
Yeah. Your wife takes off for Paris and Air Force home with some gay dude while you're stumbling around lost on stage.
Well, at least you know she's not having an affair with him. No.
No, of course. Right.
Every palace has eunuchs. Yeah.
But it should. I think he's very powerful behind the scenes.
Yeah. And he was involved at the very end when Joe was trying to cling on to power.
He and Hunter were there in the inner sanctum. So, and I think maybe he's part of the reason why Joe is such an LGBT champion, partly to sort of curry favor with his wife's favorite person.
It sounds like the sickest environment imaginable. There's no healthy relationships.
There's no honesty. There's no peace.
I mean, that's what you're describing.

Yeah, seems terribly unhealthy, terribly dysfunctional family, which is ironic because Joe's always created this mythology that so many people have bought, that they have got the closest family in the world, that he's the best father in the world.

And it's just this tragic circumstance that Hunter has a DNA predisposition to be a drug addict, nothing to do with his upbringing. And yet Donald Trump is treated like a complete monster.
And all the, everything I've observed about his interactions with his adult children is positive and his grandchildren, like they adore him in a genuine way, not in a fearful, fake way. They really have a good relationship.
And I don't think people see that as much. I think the campaign's trying to show a few videos of the grandkids, but it just seems very natural to me, his interaction with his family.
Did you, in all of your reporting on Biden, detect core beliefs? No, other than power for himself, self-aggrandizement, power, no core beliefs. He was adopted early on by the people who gave him his core beliefs.
And that was that he was basically a warmonger. I mean, he was into, you know, enlarging NATO and being pugilistic about Yugoslavia.
He wanted to bomb Yugoslavia. And we did.
I'm really glad we did. It was, I think, very important to kill all those people in Yugoslavia.
Any idea why we did that? 30 years later, does anyone even remember that? No idea. I bought the lies, actually, actually at the time i never understood what they were i was so confused by that something about slobodan milosevic being bad i remember george w bush was going on about slobodan milosevic always mispronouncing his name but i remember thinking i'm sure he's bad you know foreign or whatever but why was he bad and why should i care no one What was that? Do we know? No, I don't know.
I bought the same lies that everyone else did back then. I believed that he was a ton of Christians over there.
Yeah. Yeah.
No, it's been a dreadful disaster. I mean, it still is for that part of the world.
And Joe Biden just wanted to bomb them. Like he was so, he was way out there and he'd go on NBC and so on and say, just bomb them all.
That was what he was like. And I don't think it was, I mean, he was just taking his marching orders and, or not his marching orders, his agenda.
And then he just like with everything goes too far. But he's been at the center of a lot of bad policy, foreign policy for America from the beginning.
And for a guy that's not very, is ignorant really about the world, he's now put up as some sort of foreign policy guru. Back in 2000, I think it was, he was instrumental in getting the World Trade Organization to accept China, which was detrimental to America, hollowed out America's manufacturing and middle class.
And that was something during the Clinton administration that Bill Clinton didn't want. Republicans wanted it, but the Democrats, Joe Biden had to twist the arms of his Democrat colleagues in the Senate to get it over the line just and convince Bill Clinton.
So- But it was Bush who signed it. Eventually, 2000.
Yeah. But that was done in the Clinton years and it was the Democrat senators that were instrumental in having, if they had stuck to their guns, that would never have been signed and China would never have been- And Biden whipped that.
He led the support for it. I never realized until I looked back at it and I thought, wow, interesting.
And because I don't think my thesis is he doesn't have any core beliefs, then that must have been his sort of marching orders. I don't know if you call it marching orders, but the suggestions that the people who he owed his career to gave to him was, we want China in the WTO.
So, he just goes about making it happen. He was very persuasive.
I mean, he was very powerful in the Senate for many years, which is a terrible indictment of the Senate.

Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of people like that still in the Senate.

You know, a lot.

Well, he was best friends with Mitch McConnell.

Well, I don't think his politics and Mitch McConnell's are identical.

I mean, Mitch McConnell will be,

and I think Mitch McConnell's slightly creepier even than Biden in person, but...

Is that possible?

I think Mitch McConnell's pretty darn creepy.

Yeah, an even weirder person in life. Yeah yeah he looks like a snapping turtle not his fault um i always liked him he he gave beautiful speeches oh he's very smart yeah mcconnell's legitimately smart oh there's no doubt about it and he's been great on a bunch of topics but he's voting for kamal Harris, no doubt in my mind.

That's interesting that he was close to McConnell.

So you didn't really see any redeeming qualities to Biden's career?

None. No, I think if he'd never existed, well, they would have found someone else.

That's the problem.

I think he was the perfect cipher because he came in so young to the Senate.

You know, he was 29 when he accidentally won against an old-time Republican in Delaware. In fact, a guy called, his name was Caleb J.
Boggs. And the irony is that when Hunter Biden went and was convicted in that gun trial, gun felony trial in June in Delaware, it was done in the Caleb J.
Boggs courthouse. Amazing.
Yeah. So Boggs was a huge, you know, he was a huge influence in Delaware.
So it was really a David versus Goliath operation that Joe Biden just fluked by a few thousand votes. And the story that's told is that he did it because the Teamsters Union staged a strike of the trucks that were taking the newspaper out with Boggs the final weekend.
Boggs had this huge double page ad slamming Joe for some sort of corrupt dealings. And that was going to damage Joe and maybe would have swung the election, but the Teamsters successfully stopped those trucks with those newspapers going out.
It's equivalent of the 2020 censorship. Just thinking that exact same thing.
Right, so that's the 1972 version of taking the laptop story off social media. Exactly, he's an expert at it.
Amazing. Isn't it? So do do you ever fear you know when you and i are gone and uh our generation is gone that our great-grandchildren will be reading stories about what a hero joe biden is in their history books um they probably will because especially i think part of the quid pro quo for him going quietly for Kamala was that he gets a presidential library and you can imagine the sycophancy that's going to go on in that library about what a great man he is.
So I think that, but I think there's enough on the public record, particularly James Comer, who gets trashed a lot because he didn't do enough, they say, in the impeachment inquiry.

But he actually managed to put on the record a lot of evidence to show that Joe Biden was involved in the Families Influence Peddling Scheme, that this is where the money went, that there were two $250,000 checks, 10% of a couple of deals that Jim Biden and Hunter were involved in that went to Joe Biden. The check memo says it was a loan repayment, and that's what Joe Biden maintains, and James Comer was never able to prove otherwise.
So we have to give Joe Biden the benefit of the doubt there. However, it is part of a pattern of the money trail and how it gets to the Biden family.
10% for the big guy, that deal never happened. But I think it probably reflected the way Hunter's sort of businesses worked, that Joe would get something.
Hunter was certainly paying for some of Joe's maintenance and upkeep on his Delaware estate. And Joe lives- And the estate is not too strong.
It was a former DuPont house, enormous house that Hunter grew up in. Yes, with the ballroom.
Yeah. And then I know from having friends and relatives in that town, Greenville, Delaware, that he never paid any of the workmen.
No. You know, Stiff, the firewood guy, and the landscaper caterer and, you know, they're always after him for money.
Really screwed the little guy consistently and was famous in the neighborhood for doing that. It's incredible, isn't it? It is.
Well, it is incredible. It's very low, the lowest.
But how did he, I always wondered, how did he afford to live in a 12,000 square foot house on a Senate salary? Well, he will tell you he was just lucky with real estate. And so all the way through, even became, he's just the donors, you know, like he, they'd buy his houses for an inflated cost and he'd buy houses for lower cost.
Same with Hunter. Hunter bought places, same thing.
And just, there was just a magic carpet ride for him. Whatever transaction that he entered into, he was looked after.
And so the house he has now, he built from scratch, custom built, beautiful tradesmen from Philadelphia that built the best mansions. And you remember when during the 2020 election, he was always mocked for being in his basement.
Well, and you saw the basement a little bit. That basement is the most magnificent hand custom built wood paneled mahogany grand study library with books everywhere.
Pieces of historic furniture that he's bought from the White House. You know, you could hear the honking geese outside in the lake because it's a lakefront property.
He used to call it the lake house, but I think people teased him about it because it's a very small man-made pond, really. So, now he doesn't call it a lake anymore.
He goes, oh no, it's not a lake, it's just a pond. But gorgeous house and it's got a swimming pool and a boat jetty and a cottage for the, you know,

the Secret Service to stay in.

It's all, what a poser.

What a poser.

What a hollow man.

Absolutely.

With massive social anxiety.

That's the pathetic thing actually.

Yes.

It's quite, it's almost sad, but I mean, he's done so much damage to so many people, I can't feel sorry for him.

I love how resolute you are in your opinions of Joe Biden, since you're one of the only people in America who has the right to those opinions because you know more than anybody about Biden.

Well, Hunter probably has more. But, you know, being a son, you're sort of brainwashed from a very early age.
It's hard. Yeah.
And a child with one parent clings desperately to that parent, no matter what the parent's like. That's just the way it is.
What happens to Hunter? Oh, he'll get pardoned. Okay.
So he's been convicted on- Gun felonies in Delaware. And also he pleaded guilty on the first day of the trial in California in September to these various tax felonies, all of which, well, certainly the tax felonies should carry a jail sentence.
But he's to be sentenced on both of those after the election. And even though Joe Biden has said, oh, no, I will never pardon my son.
He He said that once and he didn't really say it very vigorously. He was just asked in a, I think a CBS interview and he just, he was like, will you pardon your son? He goes, no.
And that was it. After that, the White House has been vigorous that, oh no, the president said he won't do it, he won't do it.
Have no doubt that he's going to pardon Hunter, you know, as anybody would. I mean, really, if it was your son, would you want him to go to jail? I'd pardon my son in a second.
Of course, everybody would. And therefore, Joe Biden will get away with it.
Like everyone will say, the media will say, oh, you know, it's his only surviving son. How can you blame him? If anyone criticizes it, they'll be called cruel and heartless.
So, of course. So, Joe Biden's going to get away with it.
I mean, probably not for eternity will he get away with it, but for the here and now, he's getting away with it. Yeah.
But I think his reputation has been damaged and now people know, well, the evidence is there for people to know the truth about Joe Biden. And any honest historian is going to include the fact that he really sold out the country.
And you can look at his presidency and his attitude towards China and how he unwound a lot of the Trump era, get tough on China policies. Some of them inexplicable.
Like, for instance, even Christopher Wray, the FBI director, has complained bitterly about the fact that Biden dismantled this very good program in the universities that was supposed to stop China stealing American intellectual property, spying on our academic institutions. Yeah, and the research universities.
Yeah. And I mean, there have been academics that have gone to jail through this program and been busted.
And Chinese spirings have been busted. And for some unknown reason, there was nothing positive for America about dismantling it.
Joe Biden quietly dismantled it. It's bizarre.
Well, the only way- And it was defensive, not offensive. We were trying to protect ourselves from the theft of research.
And I've asked why, what possible justification is that? And they said, oh, it was racist because it was targeting Chinese. Really? It's racist? Yeah.
Just like calling the Wuhan virus saying it came from China was racist. It wasn't.
But that's what they tagged Donald Trump with. Just without getting, again, too sidetracked, but really quickly, it seems like that virus was created in the Wuhan lab in part with US tax dollars? Oh, yes.
I mean, I think, I don't know that it was deliberately released at all. I think that was an accident, but 100%.
EcoHealth Alliance, run by this absolutely repellent man, Englishman called Peter Daszak, he ran this weird little company that has an office in Manhattan, but really does no research of its own. But it gets these massive grants from DARPA, which is basically an arm of the Department of Defence.
And that's what it lived on. And what he did, EcoHealth Alliance, with the help of Anthony Fauci, was bypass the Obama-era moratorium on gain of function, that Frankenstein research on viruses.
And he funneled basically this DARPA money, US taxpayer money, through to the Wuhan Institute of Health, where he co-authored some papers, even though he's an idiot, but he co-authored papers with the bat lady there, the scientist. And all these fantastic whistleblowers

who've come out from the scientific community have pinpointed that the work that they did on the viruses where they used humanized mice to make the virus more lethal to humans, that was all occurring in that lab. And it was a very low security bio lab.
Unlike if that kind of research is done in America, it would have been done at a higher level, even though there's still the risk of leakage. But in that Wuhan lab, of course it was going to leak.
And so it was just a disaster waiting to happen. And it was done because Anthony Fauci was so antagonistic to the group of scientists who were sounding the alarm about gain-of-function research.
Anthony Fauci loves gain-of-function research. He thought that was going to make him immortal, that they were going to find the vaccine for viruses, right? And so, and he, you know, there are photographs of him with Daszak,

there are emails that have been uncovered of him with Daszak. They, you know, they were, it was obviously a subservient relationship on Daszak's part.
He worshipped Fauci, but Fauci was friendly with him. And Fauci says he doesn't know anything about these DARPA grants, but someone who's used to work with Daszak at EcoHealth Alliance and left sort of under a cloud, he's become a form of a whistleblower.
I've talked to him a little bit. I'm not 100% certain of how valid he is, but this is what he says.
He says that the CIA approached Peter Daszak about sort of helping them because he was

so embedded with the Chinese and the Wuhan lab apparently was some sort of military

research was going on there. So you could understand the CIA wants to have some sort

of eyes and ears and Daszak would have been useful. And Daszak, so while this whistleblower didn't personally see the cia approach dasik asked him about it a couple of times and um and and the whistleblower believes that dasik did end up working sort of as an informant for the cia amazing um and i'm sure we'll never know you, the truth about a lot of what you just said.

But what we do know, I think conclusively, is that it came from that lab.

It was loosed on the world.

And as the Biden administration never ceased telling us, millions died.

Yeah.

So whether it was intentional or I would think I agree with you, probably more likely it was an accidental.

Either way, it happened because of something that China did.

How come the Biden administration has never pushed China to pay reparations to the United States or any other country for what that virus did? Well, I can only assume it's because they know that they are complicit and that as long as they don't push China too hard, President Xi is not going to say, well, hey, you know, it was your Pentagon money that paid for this research. and it was your Peter Daszak, friend of Anthony Fauci, who encouraged the Bat Lady to do that particular research.
So, I think it's mutually assured destruction. Like, they both just don't say anything and it goes away.
And I'm sure that's in part why Donald Trump's administration didn't really push that hard. And because it's the same people in charge at the CIA and the State Department and the Pentagon who know that they didn't deliberately do this, but it was their incompetence, sloppiness, whatever, recklessness that unleashed this virus on the world.
And America doesn't want to have its fingerprints on it. And I think the fingerprints are there.
We've seen enough already has, you know, in Congress, there have been some good politicians who've pushed on this and there's been enough FOI material that's come out to show that there was certainly Eco health was being funded so you don't it doesn't take much to follow the trail plus Peter Daszak is so protected I mean where he lives sort of in the woods um just uh outside of New York um any any reporters who go there immediately the cops are there. Like, they're protecting him.

He's been...

Really?

He has a high level of protection.

How do I get that?

Yeah.

No, you won't get that.

Oh, yeah, I've noticed.

You're the enemy.

So, okay, since you have...

This is my last question,

but since you've got such an amazing recall,

a remarkable memory for details and people,

I've really known very few people with recall like yours.

I just... One more thread I'd like to sort of tie into a bow.
And that's the whistleblowers who did business with Hunter Biden. What happened to them? So that would be Tony Bobulinski and Devin Archer.
Yeah, I mean, they're really the heroes of this story. Tony Bobulinski was working with Hunter on the last, the big China deal that ended up falling over.
Hunter and his uncle Jim Biden got, I think, about $20 million out of that deal after they sort of shafted Bobulinski and their other partners, basically for doing nothing. But Bobulinski is sort of a self-made man.
And so he's quite protected. Like he has his own money.
He doesn't owe anything to anybody. He's a former, you know, naval nuclear rocket instructor, nuclear submarine instructor.
He's a pretty tough guy and he knows a lot of tough guys who protect him. So I think he's been okay.
Devin Archer, on the other hand, he's a lovely man and I've got to know both of them and I call them friends now. They've become friends.
They have this beautiful bromance. They never knew each other before and now they're just rock solid friends because they've suffered both of them at the hands of the Bidens.
Devin more so, because he was Hunter's best friend. They met at Yale.
Hunter called him my best friend in business. They went into business together.
Devin did all the work and Hunter was sort of brought in as the sort of the Biden name. In the end, they did a deal that went sour, and the Southern District of New York charged Devon with fraud over that deal.
Hunter was deemed not to have been involved, even though Hunter was, I think, vice chairman of the company. He'd earned $200,000.
Devon had lost millions of dollars. Devin was the one who ended up basically going to trial.
He was convicted and then acquitted or the conviction was overturned by the judge who found that he was honest and found that he'd been unjustly treated. and then that was overturned.
So he's been going through, I think, about eight years of sheer hell where he hasn't been able to earn money. He has a close family, so that's supported him.
He's remained remarkably optimistic. But he's facing jail.
I mean, he could go to jail, like I think for a year and one day. And that's while Hunter Biden has escaped scot-free.
With everything that Hunter's done, there's always been this invisible hand that's reached out and rescued him from peril. While all around him, all his business partners went broke, went to jail, died, disappeared.
Hunter just is like the character in a disaster movie

where all the cars blow up

and this one man runs through the flames

and he's like that.

He's the roadrunner of-

You do get the sense he's not going to escape though.

I mean, he must be in rough shape.

I haven't seen him in a while, a long while,

but he must be in rough shape.

You can't put yourself through that kind of life without destroying a lot of your brain. Yeah, I would say, I guess.
I mean, look, I wish nothing but the best for him. I've actually come to, I never met him.
I would have loved to interview. I still would love to interview him, but I know people around him.
I mean, all the people around him were fantastic people, like his friends. I've met quite a few of his friends.
You know, Kevin Morris, everyone hates Kevin Morris, but he's not a bad guy either. The Hollywood lawyer, his sugar brother, who's funded his lifestyle and paid all his IRS debts.
You know, all these people, they have a good heart because they get sucked in by Hunter because Hunter does have that tragic quality. Women especially rally around him and want to mother him and protect him and forgive him all sorts of atrocities.
And I think men, it's the same thing. Everyone you talk to say he's just good Hunter is so charming and lovable and vulnerable.
And not stupid. No, smart.

Sad.

So you count him a victim of his father's?

Oh, yes, 100%. I mean, he's a victimizer as well as all victims like that are,

but, I mean, he's victimized.

You know, I sat in the courtroom in Delaware

and watched his two exes, Hallie Biden,

who was his brother Beau's widow that he took up with, had a torrid affair with and put her on to crack. And she's pretty broken.
His ex-wife Kathleen, who I never met her. I mean, I saw her in court.
She looked like a broken woman, really very different from the Kathleen that was in all the photographs. She came across in the laptop, in all the writings as a kind of naive, very loving, like she adored Hunter, absolutely adored him, forgave so much.
And then the bitterness that crept in, I mean, it was nothing like what I would be like. She was still quite kind towards him.
You know, he did terrible things for her, betrayed her in the her in the worst way, and it damaged her inside, but she maintained a sort of a civil relationship with him, I guess for the sake of their daughters, and she's a good mother. So, he had a knack for finding these great women that looked after him, forgave him.

And all destroyed in the end.

Yeah, all destroyed.

Although Hallie's remarried, so I think she's a survivor.

She's remarried a rich guy in Ohio, apparently.

So she was looking quite happy. She had a huge rock on her hand, so I think she'll be okay.

I just want at least one person to come out happy.

That's right.

Brandon Devine, congrats on the book. Thank you.
Thank you so much. For this.
It was great to see you. You too.
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