Dave Smith: Tim Walz, Trump vs. Rogan, and Who Is Really Running the Country?

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My memory is fading. When were you here last? Well, I like to measure it in coups and assassination attempts.
So I was here one coup and one assassination attempt ago.

So now it's the first week of,

second week of August

and it feels like a different country.

Yeah, isn't that something?

Yeah, what's happened between May and now?

An assassination attempt and a coup.

Yes.

That's for one.

Olympics.

So basically the busiest period

in American history,

but we just sort of kind of forgot it all happened or something.

It is really amazing.

It is really, it's unbelievable.

And I think that like both me and you,

when I interviewed you on my podcast,

which I don't remember when that was,

but it was several months before I came out here.

And we were both kind of talking about how,

you know, trying to make predictions

about the rest of 2024 is difficult.

But the one thing

you know is it's going to be crazy. It's going to be something really wild.
You could just feel that. And at this point, you're like, how do we even accelerate from here? And I think we're going to, by the way.
I think we've got several more crazy things to go before November. So to the extent you can predict them, what do you foresee? it's so hard right now

I mean I really have a tough time

because this

I before November. So to the extent you can predict them, what do you foresee? It's so hard right now.
I mean, I really have a tough time because this, I did not see this coming. I didn't see Kamala Harris being the person.
It was always everyone who was speculating about... No chance.
She's too dumb. She's too unpopular.
We were like, who's it going to be? Gavin Newsom or Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama and everybody, even in the corporate media in the moment when they admitted the emperor was naked after that debate, even all of them were speculating about who the person- Yeah, right. Exactly.
Even all of them were speculating about who it would be if Joe Biden dropped out and Kamala Harris was not the person because she's so

I mean awful at this and deeply unpopular

and so now

they've switched into a new emperor's new

clothes mode where there is

this totally astroturfed

fake you know Kamala Harris

went from being the most unpopular vice president

ever to a cultural phenomenon

the one thing this nation needed

was more Kamala Harris it's very bizarre to watch You know, I said this last time we were here that I always, I like to call them storms. Like when you're in the middle of a massive propaganda storm.
I always love the example. And I mentioned this last time.
I don't know why. I just, this example, when Donald Trump said he was going to pull out of Syria, which he ultimately backed down on and didn't do.
Yes for two weeks in the media, it was the Kurds. What about the Kurds? Our historic allies, the Kurds.
Yes, the Kurds. We never betrayed the Kurds before and we'll never do it again.
So my grandfather said to me on his deathbed in 1983, he goes, grandson, don't betray the Kurds. And then it's like, ever since then, no one's mentioned the Kurds.
But do fight the Houthis. Yeah, right, right.
That's right. It's so important.
But it's all, but there's like these weird propaganda storms and then they kind of subside. And like now, so saying right now, if I were to say, you know, a lot of people who took the COVID vaccine got vaccine injured.
There's no, there's no energy to that. It's not risking anything.
It's not like, oh my God, my channel's going to get banned for saying. Exactly.
A couple of years was a really risky thing to say. Oh, I lived it.
Yeah. Cause you know, you were in that storm, you know? So the storm right now is that Kamala Harris has this massive grassroots support.
That's why when she ran for president in 2019, she had to drop out before Iowa. How many delegates did she get that year?

It'll take us the whole show to count

them up. But like, come on.

I mean, look, however you feel about people.

There's people I despise politically.

I cannot stand Bernie Sanders

politically. I hate socialism

or whatever he is. He's not exactly a socialist.

But whatever he is, I hate it.

But he had real grassroots support.

For real. That's why

they had to steal it from him. Yes, exactly.
Tens of millions of Americans supported Bernie Sanders.

Donald Trump, however you feel about him, has real grassroots support. Barack Obama,

however you feel about him, had real grassroots support. You know what they all have in common?

They didn't drop out before Iowa because nobody with real grassroots support doesn't make it to

the first contest. And Kamala Harris, it's not as if she was a Bernie Sanders or say like a Ron Paul or a Dennis Kucinich.
She had major donors behind her. She took much of the Clinton campaign staff.
I mean, she was touted by the corporate media as like the candidate when she first announced in 2019. And still with all that, couldn't get to Iowa.
So in other words, I think the whole Kamala Harris thing is fake. It's all astroturfed.
I think if there was a real election today, I don't see how she could beat Donald Trump, but all of that, you know, is a... So maybe the...
We don't know that that's going to happen. I don't think, of course, that's not going to happen.
But I wonder, though, if the lesson is, maybe we've been taken in by this illusion that it's about people when really it's about machines, the machinery of the party system, particularly the Democratic Party. And it just kind of doesn't matter what Kamala Harris is like, what her record is, what she believes, what she'll do or not do.
She has no role in any of that. She's just a stand-in for the oligarchy yeah i mean we're gonna it's it does feel that way yes well it's an interesting we're kind of running that experiment right now to see how fake it is or how how little the people actually matter i will say at least with joe biden the uh they proved they couldn't do it with him.
Like he was too senile to be able to pull that off. So the machine, just like everything, right? Just like the US empire, governments in general, they're not gods.
There are limits to their power. The question is like, can they pull this off? It's interesting to me.
That is a really smart point. And I'm glad that you said that because it actually makes me feel better.
Yeah. Well, that's, we still have a shot.
There are limits. They're not omnipotent.
Yes. That's right.
Well, I mean, look, there's, there's lots of examples of that, like every foreign policy decision in the last 20 plus years. I mean, there's, yeah, they actually can't do everything.
They think that we can do a lot.

I mean, we can take down nations.

We can't build them.

We've learned that.

That's right.

But, you know,

with Joe Biden,

there was a really weird

mix of things

that happened.

And one of them is that

there is a kernel of truth,

just a kernel of truth

to the corporate media narrative,

which is that obviously, you know, like me and you were talking, I think at least since 2019 about Joe Biden's very obvious cognitive decline. It was like very, it was very clear when he came back around after being vice president.
Like if you listen to him back in, uh, in 2016, when he was made the decision not to run, he said it was because, you know, of, uh because he wasn't over his son dying or whatever, but we know it was really because Obama pushed him out in favor of Clinton, even though it was kind of his turn. Traditionally speaking, he was the vice president.
But back then, he kind of was Joe Biden. And then once he came back around running in 2019, it was like, whoa, this isn't Joe Biden anymore.
But the kernel of truth to the media narrative is that it's also true that it got drastically worse. Like it got whatever it was, it went from being a thing where, I mean, I remember on your, on your Fox show in 2019, you'd be like playing these clips of him, he'd go, he'd get the state wrong.
He was telling stories you know it was transparent it was it was very clear but it was still he was still a little bit like hit or miss yes like he'd have one speech where he kind of was okay then the next speech oh he looks like he has dementia you know it was like whatever joe biden showed up and he did the debate with did he do one or two debates in 2020 i think they did they do two i can't remember but he got through them i mean trump kind of talked over trump made a real tactical error yes and just dominated whereas you want to let joe biden talk as we as we learned yes the muting the microphones really worked in trump's favor yeah in that debate um but lately it's not like every other speech no he's bad he can't pull off one he can't pull off any interview still the president who is the president of the united states well here's well it's yeah it's we don't have one um and this is strange is that well this is so this is what's crazy to me though right is like um so if you look at first of all the distinction which i think should be um obvious more and more to people, is that the distinction politically that matters right now is not left versus right. That is just not true.
It's one thing that, man, it drives me crazy amongst Republican voters and even Republican leaders that they still want to see things in that distinction. They still want to go the far left Nancy Pelosi or whatever.
It's like, yeah, she's not really far left. She uses far left language, but these people, it's not calling Kamala Harris a communist or whatever.
And I know people were sending this clip. These are people who work for JP Morgan.
Yes. They're not communists.
They're for big business. And they're like, yeah, but look at this clip.
She's talking about equality of

outcomes. She doesn't even understand what

that means. It's not really communist.

They're using leftist language. Of course.

They're liberal. They're neoliberals.
Exactly.

Who are for big business. So the

distinction is not left or right. The distinction

is like

establishment versus dissident

or corrupt

versus honest or something like that. That's right.
That's why Glenn Greenwald is not on the opposition team to us and Mitch McConnell is our ally, right? It's not about that. That's for sure.
Right. So one of the things that the establishment has, which is really something I've been marveling at lately, is they have unbelievable message discipline.
Something that us, the dissidents, could never dream of having. I mean, it's just unbelievable.
You know, you see some of the compilations of the corporate media. It's just like, hey, J.D.
Vance is weird. That's the line this week.
Tim Walls is a fun killer. Yes, everyone at all though well look uh my my totally not weird well my good friend uh michael malice who you had on your uh fox show i wrote the book on north korea and he's just really smart guy and and hilarious and a great guy um but he pointed this out that uh you know when a few years ago when joe rogan was taking uh ivermectin uh his doctor ivermectin.
Is that the fish tank cleaner or the horse tranquilizer? I can't remember which one. All of them, horse dewormer.
There's a million different things that ivermectin does, yet they all picked horse dewormer and repeated that. And then, you know, you could look back sharp as a tack.
Joe Biden, sharp as a tack, sharp as a tack. Everyone said this in private meetings, meetings he's sharp as attack this people forget the shortest lived propaganda campaign ever which was way back last month was uh cheap fakes yeah you remember for a week oh you were told that there are these videos they're kind of like deep fakes what distinguishes them from deep fakes is that they're real videos but but you see tucker it's totally they're trying to make it look like Joe Biden is old and senile, but that's all just bullshit or whatever.
So they stay on message. They very much stay on message.
Whereas the MAGA movement has nothing like that. And part of that is because Donald Trump's at the top and Donald Trump doesn't stay on message.
That's not how he works. He's a stream of conscious type thinker who goes on stage and doesn't even know what he's going to talk about.
He figures it out while he's up there. There's something kind of endearing about that.
But more fundamentally, one movement is about the individual. Right.
And the other is about the collective. Absolutely.
So the collective doesn't care about your opinion. Well, it's amazing, right, just that even of these people who work in places that you used to work and some places you didn't work, but like people of the New York Times or the Washington Post or CNN or NBC or CBS, that like all of them, at least in their own minds, still pretend to be journalists.
And yet they're somehow able to just repeat the talking point exactly verbatim as everyone else does. So anyway, my point is we don't want to be that because we don't want to be like, we don't want to all just be mindless drones.
Right. However, it is, it's amazing to me that Donald Trump, no, none of his surrogates, no one like on the proump side seems to be able to effectively hit Kamala Harris with what is the most obvious thing to hit her with.
It's the greatest scandal in American history, which is like what you just said, that we don't have a president. The president of the United States, everybody has essentially admitted, is too senile to run for president.
Yet he's going to be president until January? We are in a proxy war with the biggest nuclear power in the history of the world, and we have another proxy war-ish type thing that looks to be devolving into a wider regional war in Israel, and we don't have a president. This is like the biggest scandal in the history of the republic, if we're a republic anymore.
And Kamala Harris is directly implicated in this. She was one of the major people lying through her teeth that Joe Biden is sharp as attack in private meetings.
And it seems like somehow the Trump campaign has not been able to effectively hit her for this. It's like right there in front of us.
You pulling Joe Biden out was admitting that he's too senile to run for president. Yes.
And yet you're not invoking the 25th Amendment. This is what it's for.
He clearly can't be president. And then what does it say about the machine that they're quite happy with that, that that works very well for them? I mean, there are two levels in which it's upsetting.
One is the practical level, which is you probably do want a commander in chief if you're on the cusp of nuclear war, which we are. But the other is philosophical and speaks to whether our current system can continue.
I mean, we're just admitting now that we don't have an executive, that we don't need an executive. This is governed, that we are governed by an unelected body of people whose names we don't know, whose motives we don't understand.
Like, what? And also as we all know, the only reason they pulled Joe Biden is because it became clear he couldn't win. But if he could have won, they'd be quite happy to keep him in there.
Like, they like that. It's probably better that they don't have this guy who every now and then might think he's president of the United States of America.
Why is there no curiosity about who they is? Yeah, well, that's a good question. I mean, I can't answer that.
I mean, I think most people assume Obama is at the top of that pyramid, but I can't confirm that. We don't know.
I haven't heard really anybody in a position of authority ask, like, who does run the government?

Yeah, and I don't know that there's an easy, I mean, I don't know the answer to that, but I don't know that there's an easy answer. I don't think it's Obama.

I mean, I think Obama has influence, you know,

but I don't know how much Obama really ran the government when he was president of the United States.

I certainly know that he... Obama has influence, you know, but I don't know how much Obama really ran the government when he

was president of the United States. I don't, you know, I, I certainly know that he, he definitely at the very beginning got rolled by his generals.
Um, and I think that he, you know, I don't exactly know where he was on some of these issues, but at least with like what he ran on in terms of healthcare was not what Obamacare was at all.

In fact, he, if you remember way back in ancient history in 2008, he, Hillary Clinton was the one who was for the individual mandate. And he criticized her.
I actually thought it was a great line he had in the debate. He was like the individual mandate solves the health insurance crisis in the same way that mandating you buy a house solves the homelessness problem, which was like a great line.
Totally. And that's totally exactly right.
How does that help anything to mandate you buy something that you've already deemed you can't afford to buy? But then that's what Obamacare ultimately was. And why is it? Oh, this is good for the insurance companies.
So it's like, it seems to me like he was always getting rolled by what are the powerful interests, which are essentially big business that owns the government, uses the government as a tool to increase their profits. So I don't know.
I mean, I don't know who's really running things. Is it the director of national intelligence? Is it Biden's chief of staff? I don't know, but it's not Joe Biden.
That's for sure. And Kamala Harris seems like kind of flotsam on the waves of history herself.
Like she's not, is she making independent judgments and choices that are, is she driving her own narrative? I don't think so. I don't think she stands for anything.
You know, I don't think, I think she's just like, I don't think there's one issue ever where it's like, no, she believes in this passion and she's going to, and she's going to stand up and try her best to make sure this goes through. It's kind of like, you know, she was a, an aggressive prosecutor in California, but if she was a prosecutor right now in California, I'm sure she'd be one of these progressive prosecutors.
It's just like, which way was the wind blowing? Is that the thing to get me more power? Well, how's this for crazy? Has there ever been a more volatile time in American politics? Not in our lifetimes. No one alive has ever seen anything like this.
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www.merchantspaymentscoalition.com Before we get into the details of what's actually happening right now, just to speed ahead a year, no matter who wins, does anybody believe that our system functions as advertised? I mean, do we know too much to sort of continue? It is,

it's a good question.

And,

you know,

I think that, I think our system has worked this way for a very long time. What's really drastically changed is that people have really woken up to it.
It's a mix of several things. Obviously, like the internet is a huge part of that and social media and stuff like that.
And then also just the Trump phenomenon of the kind of the deep state coming out of the shadows to some degree, you know, and even I know I've heard you talk about this, the clip before, and I've played it a million times on my podcast, but where Chuck Schumer was on with Rachel Maddow. And he says.
And he says, which is an amazing moment because if you look, she goes off script and she even says before she asks the question, she goes, I don't mean to put you on the spot here, but President-elect Donald Trump, this is in January of 2016, he's won the election, but he's not president yet. He goes, President-elect Donald Trump was just tweeting, you know, whatever, talking shit to the CIA or whatever.

And he just off the cuff in a real moment goes, I would not do that.

It was like the most honest thing Chuck Schumer has ever said.

It was amazing.

It was six ways to Sunday to get back at you.

But I never really believed.

I mean, I was an idiot, obviously.

I didn't really believe any of that.

I was hunting probably 10 years ago down in South Texas, right in the Rio Grande on somebody's ranch. And this guy comes out with a box about this big and an aerial, like a fiberglass line that went up and the end of it was connected to a raccoon tail.
And it was a coyote call and they turned this thing on and it made the sound of a dying animal. Like just heart, like from the depths of Hades, these sounds.
And then this tail would whip around in the air. Like it's the weirdest thing I've ever seen in my life.
And out of nowhere, within about three minutes, all these animals showed up. There was a big cat, all these coyotes.
And I thought, that's kind of what Trump is. He's like a coyote colleague.
He shows up and out of this landscape that looks desolate, like nothing's going on, all of a sudden, the predators come out and you see for the first time that you were always surrounded by these things. They were always there.
You just didn't see them. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.
And I felt that way very much about the intel agencies like of course i applied to work at one i knew they were there um but i really had no idea the degree which they're running everything well i think that that's exactly right right so it's like it's not um so like say in like the 90s when i was a kid um and and if my parents you know had uh you know like they used to always have a crossfire was before you were on it was a the pat buchanan yeah and tom braden yeah there's they'd have that on or whatever and there'd be you know and they knew the cia existed it's not like they weren't aware and they were like yeah it's a super secret spy organization that does super secret spy stuff you know like they kind of knew that against their enemies right but Right. But it was never like a thought, like, okay, the presidential election between Clinton and Bob Dole is coming up.
How much is the CIA just crafting the illusion of what we see in front of us? That never would have been a thought. Now that's a thought that's in a lot of people's minds about like the whole thing is fake.
There's a great quote that your CIA guy had when you asked about the Kennedy assassination. It was such a great line because yes, the government was involved.
It's all fake. It's all fake.
That's the perfect line to describe it. But we know that.
I mean, I think people know that. They know that.
And that's why everyone's going crazy and really getting down these rabbit holes. I understand why.
But like, does that ever change? Like once you know this, can you unknow it? Yeah, that's a really good question. And I don't think, I don't think so.
I think that, I don't think you can put that toothpaste back in the tube. I think ultimately that's probably, at least at this point, that's Trump's great accomplishment, you know, for better or worse.
I think it's for the better. I think it's better to know things than to be in a state of ignorance.
But that is, there is no getting away from it. And it's also, it's past the point, especially for Trump supporters.
I think we're way past the point of them ever believing the system is real. Like even in 2020, if let's just say hypothetically that the election was completely on the up and up and there was no, you know, fraud involved in the election.
Mark Zuckerberg didn't spend 400 million. Well, no, but that, I'm saying that stuff we know is real, right? Even the Time Magazine piece that they ran.
So if you had a guy in Donald Trump who the entire media class and political class told you that it cannot be this guy, and not just like your opposition, like Mitt Romney, the former, the last nominee before him said, anyone but this guy. Everyone said, you can't have this guy.
And the voters decided, no, we want this guy. This is who we want.
And so they framed him for treason. They framed the sitting U.S.
president for treason with a foreign hostile power. That completely collapsed.
It's weird. You don't hear anything about that anymore, right? Isn't that just that in itself so crazy that Vladimir Putin's plant is possibly going to be president again, and no one in the media is even mentioning that as a thing.
And yet also not apologizing. Like it's like, they're not, how can you do neither of those things? How can you either say like, oh, Russia's about to have control of the white house again, or, Hey, we were wrong about that whole Russia having control of the white house thing.
But anyway, so they, they frame them for treason. They impeach him twice.
They raid his home in Mar-a-Lago. They, you know, all these things that happen.
How would you ever after that, if Trump loses, let's say, how would any Trump supporter ever accept that this was real? That he had a real, you know what I mean? That like our team actually lost and your team actually won. It's always going to be viewed as like what it is.
So you made such a smart point at breakfast, which I wish we had filmed because it was great. But about how there's no effort by the establishment in Washington, both parties to win over people who support Trump.
There's no effort to convince them, to cajole them. It feels like the people who run the country of hate a lot of the country for real.
Yeah. And I was thinking about this.
I recently re-watched Pat Buchanan's speech from the 1992 convention, which was an amazing speech. And he was a speechwriter for Nixon.
He was really, really good at writing speeches.

You know, like that was kind of his thing.

And it got the media flipped out about it.

They called it the culture war speech and all this.

I remember.

It wasn't like really that culture war-y really.

But there was this one point where he said something along the lines of,

he was talking about being on the campaign trail.

He had run and challenged George H.W. Bush.
And this was him coming back in to throw his supporters behind H.W., a mistake in my opinion, but gave a great speech regardless.

but he said at one point that he was out there you know when he was talking to people who are really struggling as he was right you know there's some woman who was talking about how she lost her

job um and and they were going to maybe take her kid away from her and then there was some guy who

worked at a plant that was going to close down. And he was like, please save our jobs.
And he's kind of like touching moments. And his message to the Republicans was like, look, like these people are our people.
They're our fellow countrymen. And we have to like, we have to get back in touch with them.
And he said at one point, he goes, they don't expect miracles from us, but they have to at least know that we care. Like that's, that's kind of, and it's amazing how little it takes, you know, like one of the things about this, uh, uh, Waltz guy, which he is, one of the things that I think is one of the reasons why they picked him is that he at least gets that you're supposed to talk about issues that maybe regular people might care about, you know? And it almost, this is why some of these old distinctions aren't as meaningful anymore.
I mean, don't get me wrong. Like I'm for laissez-faire free markets.
I'm a libertarian. I do not like socialism.
But at least someone like bernie sanders is talking about like your health care costs or your take-home pay why do the banks have all the power yeah yeah things that like kind of matter whereas like the corporate media is totally obsessed over like january 6th climate change climate change racism even like democracy and this kind of weird abstraction the way they they talk about it. It's like, but no one's like, it's like, you know, what people care about is like price inflation.
Like groceries are 30% more expensive. That's like a big deal.
And so anyway, I think the Pat Buchanan point was like, you got to at least give them something, just something, try to do something for these people. And it would, I would think it would take very little.
I mean, like, I think I've heard you say this before, where it's just kind of like, all right, you guys get your wall. You know what I mean? Like, you know, okay, Donald Trump won and all you guys wanted to build.
Okay. So we're going to build a wall.
Cause like, it's kind of a symbol that you still have a little bit of say in how the country is run. And we're going to give you that.
And maybe like two other little things. and we're going to keep all of the profits that we're raking in.
It's like something. They don't want to offer any deal to the Trump supporters to try to pull them back in to this system.
And that is very creepy to me. Well, it's ominous too, because if you don't care what people think, well, first of all, a democracy is required to care what they think.
So I guess we can settle that question. No, it's not a democracy or even a republic.
But if you don't care what people think, well, first of all, a democracy is required to care what they think. So, you know, I guess we can settle that question.

No, it's not a democracy

or even a republic.

But if you don't care,

then you can kind of do,

there's no limit

to what you can do to them.

Yeah, well, that's right.

That's right.

And, but also,

even whether it's democracy or not,

because obviously we're not a democracy

and obviously we're not a republic.

We're an oligarchy

that's a world empire. Yes.
that's really how you would describe america um but even in an authoritarian dictatorship there's limits to what you can do to your people you know i mean there's like you get that you have to at least convince them that you're doing something on behalf of them otherwise people won't put up with it anymore. It requires a lot of force to rule in a true autocratic way.
And even in Middle Eastern theocracies, I've seen it. You know, the king or the crown prince or the guy in charge takes the temperature of the country.
In the UAE, every week, you know, the head of the country has to sit there while people from the provinces come in and complain to him in his house. Right.
And it's, it's not just a kabuki. Like they're, you know, you have to keep in touch with what people want and you sort of have to deliver some percentage of it, or at least pretend you are right.
Yeah. Yeah.
You would think so. I mean, it's kind of like, right.
In, in a friendship or a marriage or a business or anything. Well, they're just like, how about some more suffering and degradation for you?

Would you like a little more of that?

Yeah.

And that makes me worry about what happens if she wins.

Yeah. Well, me too.
Although there's, you know, I think like Trump supporters and people who are, I think, truly dissidents of this regime have to... Like I said, we're never going to have the message discipline of the establishment, and that's okay.
We don't want that. I think we do have to be wiser about how exactly are we going to attack this thing.
I'm, like I'm, I'm like a, I'm a hardcore libertarian and there's, that's a very small group of people in this country. There's, there's some, you know, but there's not that many.
No, we can't, you know, now there's enough that like Donald Trump came to the libertarian convention because it's, it's a election. Presidential elections are close these days and any little block like helps.
But if you're talking about like Trump supporters, it's okay. Hey, you got tens of millions of people in this country and you could see where, look, there's real lessons to be learned from last year's, the boycotts of Target and Bud Light.
Just in that, forget even like politics, just in terms of being consumers. Hey, look at the power you guys have.
If you decide to do something, you can really do something and you can change the direction of the culture, the direction of the country, but you got to be really smart about when you decide to do it and who you decide to go after. And man, it was frustrating to me to see like, so Donald Trump gets shot in the head, you know, does this.

And it's the reason why he's alive. If he hadn't done that, his brains are blown out on national television.
Now, what we know about this, and obviously there's a lot more to uncover, but let's just say best case scenario, it was a wild failure. You know, like a failure that you really can't even imagine.
I've just seen some of the videos. This kid is walking around and scoping out the area for over an hour before he's there.
He's allowed to be on a roof that's 150 yards away from the former president of the United States of America. People on the ground are screaming.
This guy's got a gun. And so, okay, so like- But Joe Biden's employees allowed it.
Right. Those were Joe Biden's employees.
Yes, yes. They're executive branch employees.
And also take into account all the other things that they've done to this guy. And then they allowed this to happen.
And two weeks later, all of right-wing Twitter is up in arms about some trannies in the opening ceremony of the Olympics. And it's like, guys, focus.
Come on, man. I don't like that stuff either.
And I think it's awful that they're shoving that in everyone's face. And that shouldn't have been at the opening ceremonies.
But hey, no, no, no, no, no, no. Outrage is a finite resource, just like everything else.
And we are outraged about this thing. You know, like not that we're outraged about this.
And all it would take would be a little bit of focus. Okay.
We're not going to have the message discipline of the corporate media, but like just a little bit of focus from the dissonance to just like pick like four things that we're going to focus on all of our energy like that. We're getting the bottom of that assassination attempt.
What the hell happened there? You know, they could do it. We could figure that out.
This isn't Kennedy where we have one film that we have to all rely on. We got a bunch of different camera angles.
We can track this kid's cell phone. We could do all types of different things.
And like, to me, the major, man, my first message to every like America first type or even like, or the Glenn Greenwald, like true leftists or anyone who's kind of a dissident of this regime. It's like the rule is we only support America first non-interventionist candidates.
And anybody who has anything to say to you about war with Iran is your enemy. You're not on their side and you're not supporting them.
You will not support Lindsey Graham. You know, how the hell, let a Democrat get in.
Who cares? Is it any worse than Lindsey Graham? No. It would be much better.
Probably better. Of course, because it's more straightforward.
I completely agree with you. Completely.
And it is the neocons. It's all the Republican Senate Committee chairman.
It's Lindsey Graham. It's Mitch McConnell.
It's all the creepy war worshipers who will immediately, on every other issue, whip around and betray you. Yeah, no, that's exactly right.
Because they're fundamentally corrupt and you just don't agree with them. And, you know, maybe some of them are nice people.
I haven't met any, but I'm sure that they exist. But yeah, they shouldn't be in the coalition.
But to the assassination, it seems like, you know, the difference between, you know, climate change or equity or systemic racism and assassination is like bullets are real. We can measure their trajectory.
We can measure their effect. We saw it on video.
Like that's actually real in the way that war is real. Violence is real.
And so that's got to be at the top position of concern, oh yeah 100 then i don't i don't understand how we could just allied right past that yeah yeah what do you think actually happened um you know i i gotta say it's just it looks like it is what it obviously is yeah i agree with i mean i just i i don't know like i i don know enough to prove the case. I did see there was, I can't remember who, somebody at the Blaze who had, they had reported that, you know, because it's not just the government who's tracking your phones.
It's like a million, every app is tracking your phones. Of course, yeah, you can buy the geolocation.
Yeah, so they had a phone from the shooter's house

that had gone to D.C.

and been at this spot that's known to be

where FBI meets with their informants and stuff like that.

Right down the road from FBI headquarters.

Yeah.

What are we looking at here?

And then, of course, it's like,

look, let's just say there's a serial killer

in a neighborhood, and they've killed 11 people, and then there's a 12th person who's dead. And you see that serial killer leaving their house on video.
It's like, okay, I'm not saying that's maybe not enough evidence to go to a court of law and, and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this person killed them. But I'd be like, if we're all just looking at that, we're like, I'm pretty sure my starting assumption is going to be that guy did it.
You know what I mean? And like, it's just every, listen, you predicted this a year ago or so. Yeah, it was pretty obvious.
We're obviously on the trajectory to ending in an assassination. Follow the trend line.
Yeah, it's not hard. And so then when it happens, it is pretty difficult to not go, all right.
I mean, because if it's not that, then you're saying, okay, so what explains this guy being a block away from the FBI building? What explains the fact that this was allowed to happen? I mean, it's just so, it's so hard to understand what other explanation there could be. The Biden administration clearly planted or allowed the planting of, but I think they clearly did plant pipe bombs the morning of january 6th in front of the dnc and the rnc kamala harris was at the dnc that morning i mean i think that's shown yeah and then nobody cares you were the only guy in cable news who would repeatedly bring this up literally nobody else nobody else is even interested in what what the hell was that most of us well actually all of us go through our daily lives using all sorts of quote free technology without paying attention to why it's quote free who's paying for this and how think about it for a minute think about your free email account the free messenger system used to chat with your friends the free other weather app or game app you open up and never think about.
It's all free. But is it? No, it's not free.
These companies aren't developing expensive products and just giving them to you because they love you. They're doing it because their programs take all your information.
They hoover up your data, private, personal data, and sell it to data brokers and the government. And all of those people who are not your friends are very interested in manipulating you and your personal, political, and financial decisions.
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Don't let the three-card money thing distract you. Yeah.
You know, the moving walnut shell. Just remember what you care about is who's got the guns.
Yeah, yeah. Watch the guns.
That's why I think we don't pay any attention to all to what's happening in the United States military, which is clearly wildly politicized. That's not accidental.
It's not ideological. It's practical.
Yeah. You suborn the people with guns.
You control the people with guns, and then you have power because it's out of the barrel of a gun. The political power grows, right? Yeah.
Right. So I don't know why no one is focused on that stuff, but if the Secret Service, heavily armed federal agency, is a political tool, then, I mean, then it's like you really have to rethink the terms.
100%. And to your point about the three-card Monty thing, that's like what I was saying about the Olympic opening ceremonies, right? Is that there are like, there are these things that are clearly done to trigger right-wingers.
Of course. Like this is, we're just doing the thing that makes the conservative DNA's blood boil, right? And so like, okay, be aware of that.
Now, I'm not saying that there's not a point where that is necessary to fight against. Like, you know, if they're coming after your children or something like that, or teaching like this garbage to kids, okay, no, listen, I get it.
That is something, that's worth dying over, you know what I mean? And I'm not suggesting anybody do anything illegal. I'm just saying that someone coming after your children is something, okay, that must be fought.
But also just at least recognize that, yes, this is a tactic. It's a distraction tactic to get you caught up in the latest outrage of the day and then also to look crazy to normal people.
So they're like, to someone who's in the middle or maybe someone who's kind of a more liberal person, but they're not part of an evil cabal. They're just grew up in Brooklyn or whatever.
It's like, they just see right where it's like, man, these guys are obsessed over whether there was a dude in a dress at the opening ceremony. It's much easier to dismiss you.
Whereas if you're like relentlessly focused on something that really matters, it's much more difficult. And so that's a big part of it, right? Like, yeah, don't get distracted by the three card Monty.
And then to your point, I think that about like who controls the guns, I think that's also a big part of the reason why they uh they've been so um triggered by the trump movement in general is also because donald trump is leading a right-wing populist movement right and that's very scary to elites because it's armed it's armed and tough yeah you know i mean like a left-wing populist should be afraid yeah i hope they are afraid yeah no i think i think that's right and. And, you know, I was talking about this.
I was down with Candace Owens. I just did her podcast last week, and I was talking about this, but it's not, like, they're not a fan of left-wing populism either.
They hate it. Yeah, no, they don't like it.
We went to war with Russia to hide the fact that they rigged the primaries against Bernie Sanders, a left-wing populist. Like, that's...
right. Right.
And there's a reason why they rigged the election against Bernie Sanders. There's a reason why he was unacceptable to them.
Um, but not, they didn't freak out quite the way they did over Donald Trump. And I think a lot of that's because if you look at the people in Bernie Sanders movements, what are they going to do about it? Yeah.
It was like, okay, about it? Like, okay, you've gotten all of the male feminists together.

Okay, good luck with that overthrowing power.

However, when you get every barrel-chested man in America,

every gun enthusiast, every outdoorsman,

and also a ton of cops and military, which, by the way, I think kind of explains what you're talking about with the politicizing of the military. It's been, and that was a big part of what the VAX mandate was too.
Absolutely. We got to get some of these guys out of here, you know? They're afraid of testosterone and they want to identify who's got it in abundance and they want to isolate and punish those people.
That's why they're against nicotine. That's why Walls raised the taxes on nicotine pouches.
Of course, they're not carcinogen. There's no evidence, by the way, that nicotine is a carcinogen.
It's not that we know of. It's all a lie.
And what they hate about nicotine is it raises testosterone levels. They even suppress that fact.
That's a fact on Google. Google nicotine and testosterone and see how many results it takes you to get to the core truth, which is, yes, nicotine use raises testosterone levels.
Man, it is way, way down. And that's not an accident.
They're afraid of testosterone. Yeah.
No, listen, 100%. That's completely right.
And even on top of, even like, say, cigarettes, where like, there certainly is some evidence that like cigarettes are very bad for you. There's overwhelming evidence.
Yeah, they are. Yeah.
And smoke cigarettes. Although it is cool.
It's really cool. I miss it.
Vaping is so lame. Every time I do it, I wish I was just smoking a cigarette, but anyway, it's okay.
But the point is exactly trade-offs makes my wife happier. So, okay, it's worth it.
Um, but, uh, you know, it's like, I travel the country a lot as I'm a-up comic. I'm on the road all the time.
And it's like, look, there's no question, way less people smoke now than used to. It's like, okay, that worked.
It turns out economic incentives do work. Do you tax something? You get less of it than you otherwise would.
That's why it's so great that we tax income and you get less of that than you otherwise would. But I go all, but I go all throughout this country and like, yeah, people don't smoke as much as they used to, but everywhere you go, it's just Arby's, McDonald's, Burger King, you know, it's like, it's not, it's not like health is really the concern here.
So like, what is actually the concern? Well, public health has gotten much worse in the last 30 years. Oh, so you don't have a problem with people being lethargic and obese.
You have a problem with them smoking cigarettes. So what explains that? And I think you just explained it.
It's the same reason they don't like the AR-15 because it's a visible sign of your autonomy. Right, exactly.
And they hate that. It's a threat to their control.
And no, I couldn't agree more. So Tim Walsh, just to descend into the political for a second, what do you make of that pick? How's that going? You know, I was somewhat surprised by it.
I didn't think he... I would have bet money Shapiro was getting it.
Yeah, I thought until... I mean, they kind of sent the signals over the last couple weeks that he was out, but I was assuming Mark Kelly was going to be the guy because he's, from what I understood, they were friendly with Harris.
He's got kind of this thing where like his wife was shot and he's an astronaut. And there is just something about that that's like you kind of like can't help, but it is an archetype of a guy who's appealing.
And also because he's in Arizona. So I just thought he was the obvious choice.
The Shapiro thing, I think, evidently came down to him just being too ambitious and kind of like, Kamala Harris can't really have someone around her who's that. You know what I mean? You just can't because she's so unimpressive.
He wasn't beta enough. Yeah, well, that's right.
And then I guess this guy fit that mold. I do, my initial impression, this is not somebody I knew much about until this last week, but my initial impression is that he's also very unimpressive and that he's not particularly bright.
And he does at least, as I mentioned, he does at least seem to understand that you got to try to talk about stuff that people actually care about. And he understands that we live in a populist moment.
So he's trying to be kind of a populist or present himself that way. But again, I just think the thing is, I think it's totally fake and astroturfed and the idea that we're supposed to, you know, pretend that he has, you know, like it's remember when they, they were like Beto O'Rourke has the it factor, you know, it's just so, what are you talking about? What world are you living in where you look at that guy and you go, man, just dripping with charisma, you know, it's like, so they're doing that right now.
Like I just, and this is just totally anecdotal and I don't know what it means, but I have personally, I've gotten like 30 text messages about donating to Democrats in the last two weeks. And I've never donated to, no, I donated to Tulsi Gabbard when she was running in 2019.

Because it was like the thing where you needed individual donations to make the debate stage.

And I just wanted her on the debate stage.

And so, I mean, they're doing all types of maneuvering to give the impression that there's enthusiasm and support for these guys.

Including things like having, I don't know, I'm out of touch and all that but having like all these like rappers or whatever at her event so you get a bunch of people who are like going to see you know the rapper and then you go look at all these people coming to kamala harris's event they have all of their like techniques uh that they use i just i i think it's it's fake all of that walls guy i mean i don't want to be too unfair because I don't know him and I don't have any hard evidence. He's a weirdo.
That guy's weird. He seems very strange.
I'm sorry, there's something not right about that guy's personal life. So I hope I'm wrong because I don't want people like that with power.
But most people I know with power in Washington have personal lives who would not withstand scrutiny at all. So, but I think that, but I can't get past the core fact about Walls, which is he presided over, allowed the biggest city in his state to get burned down.
And seemed to not only allow it, but kind of support it. Yeah, did you see the video of his wife saying, I kept the windows open so I could smell the burning rubber from the riots? I did not see that.
Wow. The wife whose hand he shook.
Oh my God. By the way, I mean, I know it's picking on a little thing, but who the hell shakes their wife's hand? Well, Kamala Harris and her fake husband kissed each other with masks on.
I mean, what? It's just so, I guess, look, I think I'm pretty libertarian on the part. I am.
I mean, I've been in TV my whole life. I know a lot of people with weird personal lives.
I'm not a judger at all. Yeah, sure.
However, if everybody in power has some sort of weird celibate, you know, Mitch McConnell and his wife and Kamala Harrison, her husband, this Tim Walz guy, like there's just no chance these are normal marriages at all. That's not good.
Yeah. And people were bad.
And they were, they were jumping on, uh, on JD Vance, uh, for, I think it was with you. Uh, I think it was an old clip where he was just talking about like all these childless people making decisions for the country.
And, and look like, I'm not, I'm not, uh, again, I'm, I'm with you on that. I'm not like judging people.
I don't think there are some people who shouldn't have kids, you know, it's the best thing I've ever done. But I certainly think there are people who wouldn't make very good parents.
There are people who are very bad parents who probably would have been, I'm not for mandatory childbearing, but like, come on, there is something to be said for like, I kind of would like a lot of our leaders to like, yeah, just be in a marriage where they love their wife and they have some kids. I think it gives you some stakes that you really can't get any other way.
Well, exactly. And yeah, there's just, there is no question, it is very, very bizarre people who seem to disproportionately rise to the top.
And it's so obvious that they're bizarre. I mean, I look at this Walls guy and I'm like, again, I don't know.
I don't have a police report that I'm not sharing or something, but that guy, not babysitting my kids. Like, no way.
Yeah. No way.
Which is what's so strange about them going with the line of J.D. Vance being weird.
Like, I understand they're in, like, a little bit of a pickle where they're like, okay, they have to find rhetoric. You know, the Trump just got shot.
So they have to kind of pull back on like the Nazi stuff because it's not really working. And also it's really hard to say you're not kind of, you know, it's really hard to be like, oh, the right wingers are inciting violence when they say fake news.
But like, we're not inciting violence when we we say democracy is on the line unless this guy's taken out. But it's weird.
You're using the word weird? You're the party of freaks. I know.
What are you talking about? I know. How is weird going to be a pejorative for you when you're literally sitting here going, you see that dude with a beard and a dress? That's a beautiful woman.
And then you can call someone else weird. It's just so strange.
It is. Every accusation is an admission.
But I also think it's just, I don't want to go on too much, but I don't want to be mean, but it's interesting. I've always thought this was so strange, especially in the Democratic Party.
They're always telling you that gay is great. It's better to be gay.
We love gays. We're celebrating Stonewall.
Okay, fine. But then there's so many people in the Democratic Party who are closeted, including in positions of real power.
I know them. I don't believe in outing people, and I'm not going to.
But I know that for a fact. And it's like, on what grounds are you hiding it? Actually, that's, that's too much.
I can't. I also have absolutely nothing against gay people.
I do have an issue with people living a lie. Well, kind of.
Yeah. Because there's something about, it's also not just lying, but living a lie is like a, it's a profound thing where you get used to every inch of your existence being a lie.
The very nature of who you are is a lie. And that just obviously leads to like people who have the ability to totally lie about who they are.
Exactly. That I do have an issue with.
Nicely put. And there's so much of it.
I can't get over it.

And I'm not saying that as like a blue nose or even as a judgment on the morality of it.

But I mean, I just find it so striking.

Like how many people like that are there in Washington?

It's wildly disproportionate, wildly.

Even compared to like San Francisco or some libertine place like that or the West Village. There are freakier personal lives in DC.
I just find that really, really telling. I don't know what it means exactly, but it has to do with lying.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's right. And I don't exactly know either.
I mean, I do think that like, um, look, as we've kind of learned like a bit from the Jeffrey Epstein thing.

And, you know, I guess we're, you know,

so we find out that there's this, um, this, uh,

child pedophile blackmail ring that, uh,

was pretty clearly involved a foreign country. Um,

and it's going around compromising, uh,

political leaders and influential people.

And I guess we're supposed to pretend like that must have been the only one. And it's over now.
I mean, we never got to the bottom of it. And sure, all of the cameras malfunctioned and the guy committed suicide and we never get the client lists and we never get any of this information.
And the sitting attorney general of the United States, Barr, covered it up, lied to cover it up, which he did. Yep, that's right.
And I've said that a bunch of times and every time he tells someone I know that, you know, that's outrageous, he complains. And I hope he'll sue me over that because it's true.
Let's go to discovery. 100%, Barr lied about it.
Right. And so, okay.
But why? What was that? Right. Well, that's the big question.
And then like, what is still going on? I mean, obviously there were people above Jeffrey Epstein involved in it. And obviously, if you were doing something like that, you wouldn't only have one.
You know what I mean? Exactly. And so it does at least make you wonder like, oh, is it possible that people who, obviously people who can be blackmailed are very easy to control.
And so, oh, why would it be that there are so many people in powerful positions who have these secret, weird personal lives? And I think plausibly part of that explanation is because like, well, okay, then they're very easy to blackmail. You can control them.
Do you ever think about your own life in these terms?

Like you're one of the people who will just say what you think is true, period.

And you're always punching up, not down, always.

Yeah.

And I don't know, there's a non-trivial risk to that.

Do you ever consider that as the father of small children?

Yeah.

Yeah, no, I've definitely thought about it before.

And I guess like, I don't know, I guess because of the world that I'm in, which is like totally removed from the world of power, you know, like I've never been in DC and I've never been in, you know, and I'm like in comedy clubs and then just doing podcasts on the internet. So I guess I feel a little bit removed from the threat as like my profile's gotten bigger.
It's something I think about more. I just, I don't know.
I kind of like can't stop. I'm just, I don't know.
Listen, man, if it ever really came down, like if my kids were ever threatened, you could, by the way, it's anybody, CIA, if you're listening or whatever, I would, I would protect them first and foremost. I would totally, you know, whatever I had to do, I would do that.
Daddy's going to shut up now. Yeah.
Yeah. If I ever felt like that was really, um, the threat, um, or my wife for, you know, for that matter.
Um, but I do just think that it's, it's something that's kind of hard to describe that what I do is this is my calling in life. It's just what I'm supposed to do.
And my greatest heroes, all of them, first and foremost, I was talking to you about before is Ron Paul. And he always just told the truth.
Even when it was like something that would get him booed out of an arena or something that would be like very controversial, something that would make him look bad. That was just his thing.
And those are the people I admire, you know? And I feel like you do that. It's something I admire about you.
I feel like Joe Logan does that. Yeah, but I'm older, so it doesn't matter.
But you've got to wonder, like, the Epstein, I did not take the Epstein murder, which it was a murder, not a suicide, seriously at all. And then, you know, I spent a lot of time learning about it and talking to his brother, Mark, about it.
And I think becoming something of an expert on it, he was murdered.

But then you have to think, well, he was murdered not in his bedroom or on West 57th Street. He was killed in the special housing unit of federal lockup in Manhattan, like the most, like the inner sanctum of the vault.
Yeah. so okay

then the next

I guess

conclusion would have to be

anyone with the power

to do that

can pretty much

do anything

in this temporal world, right? So, that's a pretty formidable, whoever did that, and we could, you know, I have theories on it, but can't prove it, but somebody did it. And those are the people that like, maybe you shouldn't criticize.
Yeah. Right? Yeah.
I mean, there's certainly, there's a point to that. Um, there's also, you know, I also, you know, it's like having little kids, like I also, I have a son and I do feel an enormous pressure, um, to, um, to be an example for him and, and to be a man.
Yeah. It was a pressure I never felt until I had a son.
Um, maybe that's the sexist in me. I mean, I just didn't feel that same pressure with my daughter.
My wife is also like, she's so great that I always just kind of felt when we, our first was a daughter and I always felt when I had her, I was like, oh, like, I was like, okay, my job's pretty easy. It's actually, because I know, at first I know she's's a great role model to her.
She's just an unbelievable example of being a great woman. So she's gotten, basically what I have to do is protect her and provide for her and love her.
And that actually comes very natural to me. You're not teaching your daughter how to become a woman.
Right, exactly. Not your job.
And then when we had a son, it kind of hit me like, oh, I have to teach him how to be a man. So I better figure out how to be a man real quick.
And then I can teach this to my boys. That's exactly right.
But I think one of the foundational things about being a good man is telling the truth. And even when there's some risk involved in that.
So I do also feel like kind of a pressure that it's like, well, no, then those are the people who are exactly who I should be criticizing and talking about. That's exactly right.
Now, as far as, you know, I would just say my only pushback on what you said is that it's not, yes, they can touch someone in, you know, a secure prison. So that's certainly something they demonstrate they have the ability to do.
Also, I don't know that it was ever supposed to get to that point. And I don't know that we're supposed to know about it.
And we're supposed to be having this conversation right now. So clearly it didn't go exactly according to plan, right? That's a smart point.
So that's the kind of silver lining in all of it. We hear a lot from viewers about big tech censorship, and those reports are more frequent than ever right now.
Censorship meaning shutting down your access to information, not lies or misinformation, but true things. It's only the truth that they censor.
Facts that get in the way of the lies they're trying to tell you. The net effect of this, of course, is interfering in the 2024 presidential elections.
That's why they're censoring more than ever now

because the stakes are even higher.

You're probably not shocked by this,

but the specific examples of it

do throw you back a little bit.

We've seen screenshots and videos

showing how a Google search

to learn more about the attempted assassination

on Donald Trump,

instead push users to information on Harry Truman

or Bob Marley or the Pope,

anything other than the relevant truth, which is that they just shot Trump in the face. They don't want you to know that because it might help Trump.
We've seen examples where Facebook marked true photos of a bloodied and defiant Trump as misleading. Somehow those pictures were a lie and then limited their visibility.
Its AI assistant explicitly denied the shooting ever took place. This is insanity, but it's at the core of big tech's editorial policy, which is denying the truth to you in order to control the outcome of this presidential election.
That's not democracy. We've seen examples where a generic search for information about Donald Trump was automatically rephrased to show positive stories about Kamala Harris instead.
Is there any clear example of election interference? So what do you do about it? Well, Parler has been down this road. Parler is pulled right off the internet for telling the truth, but it's back and it's reaffirmed its lifelong unwavering commitment to free speech.
On Parler, the Bill of Rights lives. The First

Amendment is real. You can say what you think because you're a human being and an American

citizen and not a slave. On Parler, users can freely express themselves, tell the truth,

express their conscience, and connect with others who are doing the same, and they will not be

interfered with. They will not be censored.
Design to support a wide range of viewpoints,

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And so it's become a place where independent journalism is protected and respected. It's protected because it's respected.
So as this censorship by big tech intensifies, standing up for your God-given right as an American to say what you think is essential. We're on Parler.
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So if you're trying to figure out what the U.s will look like um you know next year 2026 and into the future worst case is kind of the what's happening in the uk right now it seems like yeah yeah that's that's that's pretty bad well people getting arrested or facebook posts this is why like, you know, people, especially particularly like the dissidents that that I was talking about, like you really got to be smart in the way that you fight these things. And so, you know, like I.
I was talking about when there was there was one one of Donald Trump's like trials. trials, there was a big group of Trump supporters who were outside protesting.
And I remember I tweeted that day and I was like, hey, dear Trump supporters, if you happen to see a barrel-chested man outside screaming, storm the courthouse, just go ahead and don't storm the courthouse. Let's be smart about the way you try to go about this.
This is an asymmetrical conflict. You do not want a conflict.
You don't want a conflict in the sense of like, let's storm the Capitol. How's that going to work out for you? Okay, no, this is just going to be the excuse now, of course, which obviously the thing was an inside job to a large degree.
Can we establish that anybody who screamed, let's storm the Capitol, I can think of two people who did, who was not arrested, didn't spend time in jail. Was defended by Democrats in the Congress.
Yes. And he wasn't alone.
There's another prominent person who did that as well, as I know you know. Didn't get arrested, didn't go to jail.
I mean, what can we conclude from that? Yes. And all of the, and just, you know, the stuff where you, you interviewed the head of.
Steve Sund. Yeah, right.
And so, I mean, all, just all of the things together, you can kind of obviously see what it was.

But that, so you don't want, you don't want to riot. You don't want to do things like that because then that would be an excuse for our government to do exactly what the government in the UK is doing right now, right? It was crack down on Facebook posts or whatever, you know? And so you don't want to fight it that way.
But, you know, I do believe like this country can still be saved or it could be a lot less worse than the possibilities are. The country has been in very bad points before, not exactly the same as where we are right now.
What's scary about the current position is that it's all of these factors plus the financial realities. They kind of create this weird super storm of things where it's a cultural phenomenon, a political phenomenon, and then it's also just a debt and derivatives and bonds and things that are all completely unsustainable.
but I do think that like, like I was saying, like there's, we have a big opportunity if we could really just focus and kind of get people who we have these giant platforms like this show. It's really incredible.
I don't think you can overstate how amazing it is that like the dynamics have shifted technologically and culturally to the point where, say, someone like...

Okay, so Bill O'Reilly, obviously a very different person than you and was never, was never a critic of the regime in the meaningful way that you were at Fox news, but he was the number one cable news show at the 8 p.m. hour at Fox News.
And they fired him and he largely went away. I know he's still got his show.
He's still got a little bit

of an audience, but he's not really involved in the national conversation anymore. Like Bill O'Reilly

was like moving the national conversation at one point. For many, many years.
Like his opinion

was going to have significant influence over a large portion. And they were able to like

Thank you. And you're like many times bigger than you were.
That's a crazy thing a crazy thing that's like that signals something is totally different about the dynamics that's primarily a technology change i think it's that's certainly a big part of it um that now there there was uh it's also probably has something to do with you having a younger audience than him because bill o'reilly's audience was much older and it's much tougher to get that audience to go over to the internet. I think that's right.
They just don't understand it as much. It's a different moment.
Yes. Television is just, it's obviously on its way out anyway.
So my timing was, not that I was in charge of it, but it turned out to be good. No, I mean, obviously, look, a lot of it was things that you were in control of.
A lot of it was things that you weren't in Mostly not in control. But the fact that we've got these kind of like alternative platforms now, which really aren't even alternative.
I mean, this is kind of the mainstream. You know what I mean? It's not, Brian Stelter ain't the mainstream.
You know what I mean? It's like, so it's you and Rogan and Candace Owens show is like taken off and there's all these big shows. And so, okay, we've got a new tool in our disposal here.
And it's like part of the thing that's so frustrating to me, which watching Trump's campaign so far is it's like, I don't know who he has running this thing, but it does not have the brilliance that Steve Bannon had in 2016, where they really figured out, like, this is the lane you run in. And there's so many things about, and so anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that these audiences, man, need to pressure Donald Trump right now to be better and to run a smarter campaign.
So if you're Trump, what do you run on right now? Well, okay.

So first of all, it's like you understand that the whole appeal of Donald Trump was

that he was a giant middle finger to the establishment who's failed on everything.

There was a reason why people wanted a big middle finger to them because they failed

on everything.

I mean, just look at in the 21st century alone, what has the ruling elite handed the American people? I mean, like they failed on 9-11. They then used 9-11 to fight a bunch of wars they already wanted to fight that were catastrophic.
Yes. Just absolutely disastrous.
They used to oppress their own population.

Yes.

They stripped us of all types of basic liberties

that we took for granted.

Humiliating us at the airport.

That's right.

Yeah.

Then they handed us

the greatest financial recession

in a hundred years.

They gave us

the Obama recovery,

which was like the most,

you know,

crony recovery, built off zero percent interest rates and record high government spending. So the recovery essentially was Wall Street and the suburbs of Washington, D.C.
Yes. You know, then there's the rise of wokeism, all this insane stuff that they're pushing on people.
Now they've given us this disastrous war in Ukraine. All this stuff, right? They literally created COVID.
Yeah, yeah, yes. And then stripped us of our civil liberties in the name of fighting something that they created in a lab with our supposed enemy, China.
Like what? Yes, they, right, they created the thing. Yes.
Allowed, and I don't mean intentionally because I don't actually think that's the case. Oh, I'm not suggesting that.
Who knows? But they allowed the conditions for this to happen and then used that to have the biggest crackdown on the liberties of the American people in our nation's history. And all on the basis of pseudoscience.
It was all completely wrong. Then this vaccine, they tried to force into as many people's arms as they could that was totally sold off lies and was actually somewhat dangerous and totally unnecessary for the vast majority of people.
And okay, so they've given all of us. So the lane here is that you, Donald Trump, represent the repudiation of all of that.
And that's how you won in 2016, obviously pre-COVID, but that's how you won in 2016. You were a repudiation of the Bushes and the Clintons, not just the Clintons, not just the Democrat establishment, but also the last Republican president.
You got on stage and said he lied us into war. I mean, this is what gave you that energy.
This year in the campaign, I mean, look, however you feel about Israel, the fact that Donald Trump has made the whole campaign, his convention is the pro-Israel convention. And then it's like, oh, Kamala Harris, she's a Palestinian.
Chuck Schumer's a Palestinian. They're all a bunch of leftists.
Well, now what? You're supporting the status quo, which is that America supports Israel? That's what every powerful person in D.C. believes.
All of them, including Kamala Harris, by the way, who's a part of an administration that is completely supporting Israel's war in Gaza right now. Like, what is this weird invention?

And then he even frames it

as they're all these left-wing socialists.

You know, they're all the, like,

so he's almost like putting himself in the position

as the defender of the establishment

against the radicals

who would overthrow the establishment

and what, have a revolution of the workers

or something like that?

It's none of this.

First off, it's not true. That's not at all what's going on.
They're the defenders of the establishment and what have a revolution of the workers or something like that is none of this is first off it's not true yeah that's not at all what's going on they're the defenders of the establishment exactly they use some left-wing rhetoric to pit people against each other and create a culture war to distract from their terrible policies but they're not marxists this is so ridiculous you know what i mean and so like first of all look donald trump i'm not saying it's

painful to hear this because it's so true well look i'm not saying you have to come out you don't have to be me okay and you don't it's just objectively true well you shouldn't be me by the way because my if you were saying what i think it probably wouldn't get you elected you know what i mean oh fair you can come out there and say we love israel we will always always defend Israel. Israel is a great country,

but we're not funding aggressive wars around the country.

So what does that have to do with anything?

I just don't see why it's even relevant.

But if you want to be the anti-establishment guy,

you can't take the establishment position.

Okay, so that's where you're speaking

the deepest level of truth, in my opinion.

You were not the incumbent.

The incumbents have wrecked the country. Yeah.
I mean, off the cliff is not too strong a metaphor for what they're doing. And you're opposing that.
So hoist the middle finger. You're opposed to that.
You are not on the side of the establishment. I don't understand why.
That's just not hard. I put that on the refrigerator and just meditate on it every day.
Well, I also will say one of the things that was kind of magical about Donald Trump's 2016 campaign, which really, I mean, it just, it can't be overstated how amazing what he did was, however you feel about him. And the guy on a shoestring budget, uh, went out there and just through use of social media and his kind of bombastic personality was able to completely dominate the news cycle and took out the Bushes and the Clintons, the two most powerful political families in modern American history.
He took both of them out in this crazy upset. Part of the way that he did that was that there were these issues that were like overwhelmingly popular that no one else wanted to touch.
It was like if there was like a poker game and there was just like pocket aces that like everyone's like, I don't want those cards. And then Donald Trump was like, I'll play those cards.
Those are very good cards. I'll play.
How about build a wall and stop the flood of illegal immigration? How about we can have immigration, but we get to decide who comes in and does it. It's wildly popular with people.
Open borders aren't popular. I mean, it's hard to even find polling on them because it's so unpopular that people won't even ask the question.
They ask, do you want higher levels of immigration or lower level but the only polls i've seen it's like single digits you know maybe seven percent of people support open borders maybe less than that but so he is just playing these but hey we shouldn't fight stupid wars it turns out that's a wildly popular position yes however i will say with this uh you know the majority of americans don't want to support Israel's war in Gaza, but he won't play that card for whatever reason. Maybe it's because he believes it.
Maybe it's because Jared Kushner convinced him of this, or maybe it's, I don't know, but he's not going to play that card and just say, hey, we're broke here. We're $35 trillion in debt.
That's right. We can't afford to prop up other.
Listen, when I'm like a strict non-interventionist, I'm like John Quincy Adams. I don't think America should fight anything.
If we're attacked, we destroy those people, but that's essentially it, you know? But when a couple months ago went around in response to Israel killing an Iranian,

when they launched those missiles at Israel,

and a team of nations led by the United States all helped defend Israel.

It was Jordan and Saudi Arabia were involved too, by the way,

which goes to show you the real dynamics of that region.

But no one's really complaining about that.

Like, okay, fine. I'm a non-interventionist, but like if missiles are coming toward Israel, go ahead, shoot them down.
Fine. That doesn't mean we have to help them.
That doesn't mean we have to fund them fighting their war. And then also just the fact that like, there's a foreign country, we're not allowed to criticize and people's careers get ruined over that.
I'm sorry, listen, if you want to be America first, what does America first mean, right? It means we shouldn't have fought the war in Iraq or whatever, something. Okay.
Who really wanted us to fight the war in Iraq? You know what I mean? I'm just saying it's like, no, like, like all these guys. And it's like, they come back in now with the NatCon movement as Douglas, Colonel McGregor had a great article about this earlier this summer.
He co-authored it in the American Conservative. But it's like all this new NatCon movement that has all this kind of like pro-Israel stuff coming into it.
The title of the piece is Neoconservatism by Another Name. It was a great piece.
Everybody should go read it. But it's like, well, who do you think the neocons were who wanted us to fight the war in Iraq? Like I said last time on here, go read A Clean Break, A New Strategy for Securing the Realm by Richard Perle and David Wormser.
It was about overthrowing Saddam Hussein for Israel's benefit. I'm not against Israel.
I'm Jewish. I like Israel.
It's a cool country. The people there are great.
I'm just saying that if you're America first, then the guy, Benjamin Netanyahu, the guy who testifies before Congress that we should go overthrow Saddam Hussein and launch a regime change war against Iran and launch a war in Libya, that's not your ally. The whole America first thing is that we don't think we should go fight all of these stupid wars.
Unless they help us. Right, right.
You know, unless there's some coherent justification for them at least. But so, okay.
So Donald Trump, he needs to just play. There's a few things that he could laser focus on right now.
And he should. Donald Trump should be asking himself the question that Hillary Clinton asked herself in 2016, the most obnoxious question ever.
But why are you not up by 50 points right now? Donald Trump, why is that? Oh, listen, just run on this. No more stupid wars, period.
We're not fighting any wars of choice. We are only fighting wars of necessity, which we do not have any right now.
Iran, puny little Iran, is a threat to the United States of America, give me a fucking break.

It's absurd.

Come on.

This is too ridiculous.

And he should,

if anyone should,

he should have the courage

to say that.

But there's no pushback

from anyone

on the question

of going to war with Iran.

So,

if you have a

highly motivated

force

pushing for something

and there's no

organized resistance to it,

that force will prevail. Yeah.
And what I see is a bipartisan push, Republican and Democrat push toward war with Iran. No even attempt to explain why this is in my interest, why I should send my four draft days children to go die in Iran.
Yeah. Not even a conversation about that.
So I feel like unless I'm missing something, we're going to get that war. Well, the problem, at least, it's been a while since I read this, but Scott Horton, who's totally brilliant.
You should have him on, man. He was like Justin Raimondo's disciple.
Yep. Just like he's antiwar.com and he's just like IQ off the charts.
He wrote the book Enough Already, which is a book about the terror, the war on terror from Jimmy Carter all the way through Donald Trump. And he's currently writing a book on the war in Ukraine, which I got an advanced copy of.
It's phenomenal. I can't wait to send this to you when it comes out.
It's so good. It's called Provoked.
And it's just the whole story of how at every turn, the West provokes the war with Ukraine. So good.
I really can't wait for that to come out and people to read it. But what stopped the war in Iran the first time was really the military.
When Dick Cheney wanted it and George W. Bush, I think George W.
Bush eventually was like, I've been listening to this guy too much this was like by 2007 he had finally figured out like let me stop listening to Dick Cheney because you know yeah but um but it was really the military it was just like logistics like they were just like guys we do not have escalation dominance against Iran we like they yes we we're not going to lose the war but like they can target so many American bases over there. It's just going to be a bloodbath.
There was one Green Beret who told me off camera, but he told me, he goes, this isn't 10 times harder than fighting a war in Iraq. Fighting a war in Iran is a thousand times harder.
This is a whole different ballgame. So perhaps that reality will stop it from

happening. But even just the rhetoric about being tough on them, it's like, why? Why are we even

talking like this? Why are we constantly trying to escalate here? It's so simple and it's popular

with the American people. No more stupid wars.
Look, the one of the amazing things and how much munich and right right i mean chamberlain there i go again being neville chamberlain the only lesson of history ever is neville chamberlain you're always right if you're on the side of aggression you know but never if you're talking about anything about neville chamberlain of course of course right or the history of the war at all so they always tell you it's the most important election of your lifetime but of course this one actually is that's demonstrable and it's also because it is so important being censored at every level by the tech companies so we were thinking about this a couple of months ago and we thought why not get on the road live in front of actual people live audiences coast to coast a tour where we can't be censored. That'd be good.
It would also be fun. So we're doing it.
We're going to be on stage with some of our friends, some of the most fascinating people we know, the most recognizable people we know, responding to what is happening in America this September in real time. It'll be just like the podcast, but it's going to be live.
So we're excited to announce our friend Larry Elder is coming to join us in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Our friend John Rich will be there with us in Sunrise, Florida.
We're adding more stops. We just added another stadium show in Redding, Pennsylvania.
We'll be joined on stage by Alex Jones. They tell you what Alex Jones is like.
Have you seen him in person? You should. Make up your own mind.
It's going to be fun as hell and interesting and intense and we hope you will join us go to tuckercarlson.com right now to get your tickets see you there um but like but one of the things that's really interesting that's changed very drastically in a short period of time on the kind of the right in america is that at least what i get now the talking point for donald trump like from donald trump's supporters is that um there were no new wars he didn't start any new wars, which is, I do love that that's the talking point. Like it's never like he killed all the terrorists or he was so tough where the Democrats are wimpy.
His supporters are bragging that he didn't get us into a new war. Now, okay.
I, you know, the reality is that like came pretty close actually in Iran and Venezuela. He really flirt really flirted with new wars oh i was there and he didn't end the wars that he said he was going to end and so there's some criticism but it's kind of like look this is what your own supporters like about you so just run on that and then the other thing man that he feels it too yeah he feels it i mean one thing i can say about trump having talked to him about this a lot is that that is sincere

he is afraid

of nuclear war

and I think

his instincts

are correct

on war in general

I think that's exactly right

what's in it for us

like what's the point

and he's also

the only leader

I've ever talked to

in my life

at that level

who routinely says

well people get killed

yeah

you know

I'm not saying

he's a

you know

super faithful Christian

or whatever

I don't know

where that

where that

Thank you. who routinely says, well, people get killed.
Yeah. You know, I'm not saying he's a, you know, super faithful Christian or whatever.
I don't know where that instinct comes from, but it's totally real. I've heard him say it many times.
Yeah. People die and they've got widows and kids and stuff.
It's a big deal to kill people. No, you're right.
He's one of the only people like at that level. I mean, I've heard like some anti-war leftists.
Well, I think that, but I'm not, I have no power.

Yeah, but like at that level of political power,

yeah, it's like you'd never hear that.

Like that's never even a part of the calculation, it seems. Of course not.

And even when Trump was being manipulated

by some very not good people that he had around him,

like when the, to strike Syria,

it does seem like most of the reporting was that

that's how they got him,

was with being like, look at these dead kids from these chemical attacks. Oh, the fake poison gas.
Yeah. And then just, you know, and so kind of like played on that feeling that he has to be like, you know, you got to do something to stop this.
So one of the reasons nobody pushes back against the, the big picture claims that, you know, for example, Iran is her greatest enemy or that Putin is going to try and overrun Czechoslovakia or this is freaking insane, is that anyone who talks like that puts himself at risk. And I would just, you know, Scott Ritter, I'm sure you saw this week at the FBI rated as how, you know, this is a former arms inspector, U.S.
government employee who's been opposing American foreign policy nonviolently for 20 years and they keep throwing him in jail for it yeah no one cares well there is um there yeah there's there's risks that are attached to opposing the war machine because that's that's kind of the whole game um and so look i i i also do recognize, you know, talking shit. I'm into a microphone and that Donald Trump, the pressures and the forces that he has to deal with here are certainly things that I don't completely understand.
but from what I do understand of this is that I know it's the correct position and it would be enormously popular with his base. And then there's other things too that he should be laser focused on.
I mean, obviously immigration. I mean, this is, it's unbelievable, unbelievable that what he decided was his signature issue that he ran his campaign centered around has been basically has won the day and that that he was he was labeled a nazi for this and now you got the the mayors in blue sanctuary cities all talking about how the influx of migrants is destroying their cities and stuff so he's got a forever he's obviously got pocket aces right there that you play this card.
And the other thing is the censorship, which really should be more of a focus of his campaign. And I'm stunned that it's not.
Like he, I mean, he's back on Twitter today, by the way. I've mentioned that to you in first time.
I just saw that on my way over here in the taxi. Smart.
He's back on Twitter. So yeah, has to be back on Twitter to win this thing.
But like he got kicked off of Twitter and not just him. He shouldn't make it just about him.
That should almost be like an afterthought for his campaign. But like all of his supporters, you know, like it's in his self-interest to defend these guys.
Everybody through 2020, I mean, if you were like critical of the lockdowns, everybody was getting silenced left and right. And that is, he should make this campaign like a referendum on free speech.
And that the only way free speech is going to happen is when I'm in there. And he should threaten the shit out of all of these companies he should you know uh facebook backed off like nikita khrushchev level we will bury you yes yes that's right and and not and because khrushchev didn't even mean it like with force he meant he meant like their economic model was gonna be better no i want force i mean with force we should listen it is that is the only thing these companies are going to respond to.
But if they think that Donald Trump could really say in a believable way, like you say, hey, Google, I'm going to win this election, which, look, as of right now, there's at least a very good chance he's going to win this election. And he goes, my sole mission in life every morning when I wake up till I go to sleep that night is going to be to take you guys down unless you stop censoring right now.
Like, I don't mean when I get in. I mean, from now until the election, if you, cause you know, you see all this stuff like Elon Musk was posting about it.
It's crazy. We're like, if you search for the shooter, it doesn't come up.
Go right to Abe Lincoln. Yeah.
Yeah. The latest on Ford's Theater.
I saw there was a Reagan, an article on Reagan getting shot. And then if you search Trump, it goes to these Kamala ads and stuff.
I mean, he should be scaring them, which by the way, they all respond to that. Oh, of course they do.
They're scared of government. Well, it's why the censorship regime started to begin with.
Of course, exactly. It didn't exist.
Because Democrats in Congress pushed them into it. Well, they hauled them in front of Congress and threatened all of them.
And then they go, okay, yeah, sure. It's so weak.
So turns out Fauci has COVID. So someone just texted me, and I don't know if this is actually true, but he had six shots.
I mean, which would make sense. I think that's the recommended amount.
Yeah. How do you get, if you've been vaccinated six times against something, how do you get it? You should have taken eight, I guess.
It's really just always need more, always need more vaccines. No, but I mean, it's just kind of to your point, leaving aside, I think the vaccine's poison.
I've thought that for a long time. Some people are fine when they take it.
Other people, including a couple I know, have their lives destroyed by it. But either way, whatever you think of how toxic it is, it clearly doesn't work.
And so why is this still on the schedule? And why doesn't anyone say that? I just feel like we're living in this moment where the most obvious things go totally ignored. Yeah.
And also just the fact that there is essentially statistically zero risk for the vast majority of people from COVID. I mean, at this point, I mean, this was true in the original strains.
But it's clearly getting the vax and getting the boosters makes you more likely to get COVID. I mean, the numbers seem to show that.
I never got vaxxed, not to brag. I hate to rub that in people's faces because I'm obviously very proud of it, one of my greatest achievements.
But I got COVID once. I've been super healthy ever since then.
I never wash my hands, never wear a mask. I'm like the dirtiest person you've ever met.
I'm happy to breathe the breath of strangers on crowded commercial flights. And I never got COVID again.
Here's Fauci's had three times. Biden keeps getting it.
Like, what is that? Why does nobody say anything about this? Yeah. Well, same, same with me.
Never got the vax. I had COVID twice and, you know, it was mildly sick and it was, I would have rather not, you know, but like whatever, it's fine.
And then I know so many people who, who got it. and some of whom had the same experience as me, got COVID a few times and just were mildly sick.
A lot of them got it several more times than I did. And then I do know a few people who developed heart conditions, who developed different problems.
And again, it's one of those things where you can know, you can never like with 100% certainty trace it to the vaccine, but it seems like the overwhelmingly likely thing. What we can say is that it doesn't work.
For sure. And what we can say with 100% certainty is that the thing was sold on lies and not just like, oh, they got it wrong.
Like they, they were totally, there was never any evidence to suggest that you could not get COVID or transmit COVID. You know, even in the original, what was it? The Pfizer study where I think like it was, if I'm remembering this correctly, it's been a while since I read it, but I think it was like in the unvaccinated group, two people died of COVID and in the the vaccinated group, one person died of COVID.
And then they extrapolated from that that it's 100%, you know, reductive. But there was still a person who died of it in there.
This idea that you can't, like, this was never true. They lied through their teeth.
And Joe Biden, at the beginning of his administration, made his number one priority to, by any means necessary, get every single American to take this vaccine. And luckily, with the skeleton of constitutional, limited republic procedures that we still have, the Supreme Court struck down the worst of his mandates, like the OSHA mandate, which would have had every midsize and large business in America have to fire anyone who is unvaccinated.
All the people who got fired, have they been made whole? Oh, no, I'm sure they haven't. And that's, yeah.
Man, I mean, like, I know we live in, so much stuff happens so quickly that I know going like four years ago or three years ago seems like ancient history. But if nothing else, I mean, on that alone, the Democrats deserve to lose all power that they have.
But they went all in on that. And a lot of Republicans, too.
So Rogan, who I just want to say for the record, I really love and I revere as a pioneer in media really more than, I mean, Roger Ailes level kind of changed everything. Yeah.
I just always want to say that because I really believe it. But he seemed to endorse Bobby Kennedy.
Then he comes out and says, no, I was just, I just like Bobby Kennedy. I like Bobby Kennedy too, for the record.
He's a nice man. But I was not endorsing him, Rogan said.
And I don't really like talking about politics that much. I'm summarizing.
But if you want to know like what I think, just listen to Dave. That was kind of funny and cool that he said that, but give us your assessment of Bobby Kennedy.
Like where, what role does he play in this race? If any, by the way, so when Rogan tweeted that, and I mean, like it's just, you know, like I couldn't even look on my phone for like hours after that because it's just like, and he texted me. It was one of the funniest texts I've ever gotten.
Rogan texted me and he goes, oh, I didn't even realize that I stirred up a whole riot on Twitter, but I sent all the looters to your house. Oh, that's pretty good.
Which was, I was like, yeah, that is really, but I was like, I'll take them. I love this.
I like the looters. But also the moment really is, it's because Joe is such a like, you know, I know him pretty well.
We're like pretty good friends at this point. And he is exactly what you say.
Yeah. Like that's him.
I've noticed. Everybody who, if you watch the show, you already know who he is.
So it's like, he wasn't, he doesn't even think like, I'm going to be making an endorsement today on my show about which candidate I want to throw my people's support behind. He literally just, someone asked him a question and he was just having a moment.
Like he was just like, I do like this Bobby Kennedy guy. You know, he seems kind of like he's read books about stuff and he wants to discuss ideas and not just like personal attacks.
And I really like that. I agree with that.

And,

um,

yeah,

I mean,

I kind of,

I,

I tend to agree with that too.

I also just,

by the way,

I mean,

um,

I,

I was just so furious at Trump supporters who were like,

uh,

giving Rogan shit for that.

And then I just thought it was maybe the stupidest thing Trump's done in the campaign so far was that he posted on Truth Social attacking Joe Rogan for it. And it's like, man, is anyone around him to just be like, no, you don't go to war with Joe Rogan.
No, that's the teacher's union you should be attacking. Yeah, right? Like, what? But it's also like, even whether he's supporting you or not, that's your teacher's union.
You know, he's, again, like I said before, it's not left versus right. It's dissident versus the regime.
And this is the guy who cracked the corporate media. He's the guy who cracked the state's monopoly on information.
That is true. So come on, what are you doing here? And he said, also, it's just so removed.
And it's really just the flaw in Trump is that he said, it'll be interesting to see how much Joe Rogan gets booed at the next UFC event. And you're like, do you really think Joe Rogan's going to get booed at a U? Okay.
All right. I know that Donald Trump, I know how your mind works.
And there's great things things about it and then there's things that hold you

back but i know that you think that since they love you at the ufc event they're your people and they'll hate anybody who's not supporting you but actually they really love joe rogan and they're not going to be booing him and and there's it was just so stupid to fight this fight with him Anyway, um, you know, to the Bobby Kennedy stuff, I was, when he first started running

and, uh and I had him on my show and I was just like, I just loved the guy. And I thought his positions on Ukraine and on the vaccine, I thought were heroic.
And it was amazing. What was so amazing about his campaign was that he was running as a Democrat and he's Bobby Kennedy.
His name is Bobby Kennedy. And he's not like some peripheral Kennedy who's like, he's Bobby Kennedy's son.
He's Jack Kennedy's nephew. And here he is giving Democrats this.
It reminded me a lot of the Ron Paul presidential campaigns where because Ron Paul was such a conservative person and because right after his name, there was our Texas, you know, and he could be against the wars. It was like he gave permission.
Exactly. You're allowed to be against the wars.
You could oppose the wars and you don't have to give up your whole identity. You don't have to be Michael Moore in order to be against this war.
No, that's exactly right. You could be a real American patriot and oppose these wars.
And in a similar fashion, I felt like Bobby Kennedy was giving Democrats permission to abandon these, which were, look, I mean, if you think about it, I said just a second ago that the vaccine was Joe Biden's first, you know, we're all in on the vaccine. And then his second big thing was all in on the war in Ukraine.
This is the Biden administration. So he's this total repudiation of Joe Biden, but being like the true Democrat, what we're really supposed to be, you know? Yes.
And so there was something amazing about his campaign. You know, I understand why he made the move to go independent because there's not a real democratic process in the Democratic Party.
Nor is there much of a constituency at this point for that message. Yes, that's probably true.
Yeah. I do think that, and you know, me and him, he came back on my podcast to his credit and we argued about this.
I do think it's strained our relationship a little bit, but I could get past not being good on Israel from my perspective, of course. And I could get past...
I could probably tolerate all the way up to Vivek Ramaswamy's position on Israel, which essentially was he was taking the non-interventionist position, but doing it in a way where it's like, I am not picking a fight with AIPAC. You know what I mean? Like he was like, I think his answer at the debate was something he said, uh, he goes, I'll tell Netanyahu that I'm going to kill the terrorists on our Southern border and you go kill the terrorists on your Southern borders.
I was kind of like, I'm not funding your war, but like totally support you doing what you're doing. I, that's not how I feel about the situation at all.
I actually, I think it's really horrible what Israel's doing and it's inexcusable. Um, but I mean, I just going around with Rabbi Shmuley as your campaign advisor, I just like to me, once I saw that, I was like, I'm just, I can't, I just can't, it's too much for me.
So, and I do think again, kind of like I'm saying with Donald Trump, I mean, he just pocket aces. You don't want to play these pocket aces.
Okay. I mean, Democrats like 70% of Democrats oppose this war and want to cease fire.
I think 50% of them consider it a genocide on, on the Republican side. Obviously there's a lot of America first people who could

be persuaded that we shouldn't be involved in these conflicts. I think Bobby Kennedy had a

real chance to make it like if he was non interventionist on on this war, I think he would

have made some huge waves. And I think that really hurt him.
He also he lost a bunch of people on his

campaign staff because he was the anti-war guy. I had a whole bunch of war people who were like,, oh no, I'm not going to be a part of this now.
So where does that leave him now? I, um, as a political matter, it feels like, it feels like there is a significant chunk of people. I don't know how many in the millions though support Bobby Kennedy, clearly repudiate the priorities of the Biden-Harris administration, don't want to vote for Trump.
I mean, my sense is he's taking potential Trump voters. Yeah, that might be the case.
You know, I'm not sure exactly, and I don't know. I mean, if Donald Trump, like, you know, if he were to drop out of the race and endorse Donald Trump, I think there's a very good chance he could end up in his cabinet and get some type of position out of it if Trump were to win.
For sure. I don't know if that's going to happen if he stays in the race the whole time, because I think it will be seen as like, well, no, I mean, you can't, you know.
Diminishing returns, for sure. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you just can't do that and then expect the guy to give you a position. Do you think if Bobby Kennedy endorsed Trump, which is possible, I would say, it is possible, do you think that would push Trump over the line? Would that meaningfully help? Most endorsements don't.
Would that make a difference?

It might. I don't know.
It's hard to tell what endorsements actually do anything. It's just in

general in life. You see Obama and Donald Trump, who are two of the most successful political

figures in the last, the most successful political figures in the last, you know, 15 years or so. And it's not as if their endorsements seem to carry that much weight.
It's not like, it's not transferable like that in the, in the same sense that like, um, you know, like I love your show. I, you were the only guy on cable news who I always watched and I love watching your show on on your new network um and if you were like hey you got to check out this guy someone else so you got to check out their show that would certainly get me to check it out but it's not as if that's a guarantee that i'm gonna love it i'll check it out and if i like it then i'll keep watching it you can't just transfer the thing that people like about you other people.
I've never said a bad word about Rogan. I genuinely like him as a person.
I think his show made such a massive difference in the media landscape in an American history. I'm not taking ayahuasca.
Do you know what I mean? It's like nothing. I love Rogan.
I'm not taking ayahuasca. It just doesn't work that way.
And so I do wonder, I really don't know the answer, but is it you know, if he were to drop out and endorse Trump at this point, don't people kind of already know they had the option to support Donald Trump? And if they're still not supporting Donald Trump, there's probably a meaningful reason why. And one of the things that, you know, kind of is, I think probably the reason why none of them will agree to have Bobby in any of these debates is because if they were to, then the topic of Trump's handling of COVID would have to come up.
And Donald Trump is kind of lucky in a situation. There's always this dynamic in some issues between Democrats and Republicans.
So like, for example, when Barack Obama was president, all of the Republicans at that point, their criticism of him was that he was too soft on foreign policy. He won't even say radical Islamic jihad and, you know, dumb Marco Rubio, you know, points like this.
And so then he totally gets off the hook for his very aggressive foreign policy and the war in Libya and Syria and Yemen and all these wars that he started, by the way, all on the side of Al Qaeda. And no one ever gave him any pushback from that.
Like no one ever, he never got held accountable or had to answer for any of that because the Republican talking point was he's weak on defense and we're tough on defense. And likewise, with COVID, because the Democrats' whole narrative the whole time was that he's not reacting enough, no one ever really gives Trump a hard time.
I guess DeSantis tried to a little bit when he ran against him, but it just fell flat. I mean, if you just pull the, not to disrupt the flow here, but if you pull

the thread a little bit on why were we aligned with Al-Qaeda?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Because they're not Shiites. That's why, because they're not backed by Iran.
And I've got to say,

I'm hardly an expert on Islam, to put it mildly. I'm a Protestant Christian.
However,

spending a lot of time around the world, you know, the Shiites are pretty sophisticated,

actually. And I do think that our portrait of what your average Shiite is like is totally

the Christian. However, spending a lot of time around the world, you know, the Shiites are pretty sophisticated actually.
And I do think that our portrait of what your average Shiite is like is totally wrong, completely wrong. There are a lot of very cosmopolitan Persians, like very cosmopolitan, very pro-Western, very smart, very interesting, not savages at all.
I mean, I'm not, you know, endorsing the foreign policy aims of Iran at all or their system or anything, and I'm not endorsing Islam, either branch, but the idea that the Shiites are like animals, that's, that's bullshit. Well, also, I mean, look, there's lots of problems, even in the Shiite world.
I mean, there's, you know, but there's, um, but they're also not our enemies. Like they haven't, they haven't attacked us and they haven't attacked Europe.
I mean, they're- Even the Houthis? I was taught as a child to hate the Houthis. It's also freaking insane.
Of course, I never heard of the Houthis until about 20 minutes ago and they became our historic enemy. It's, you know, I think essentially what happened, right? Because if you think, it's like like really Al Qaeda and ISIS are the two terrorist groups that have actually hit the United States of America and Europe.
And you know what I mean? Like committed acts of terror against both were armed and funded by the West at different points. And that's pretty appalling when you think about it.
But really, I mean, what happened is, and I don't know exactly how much of this was the propaganda or how much of it was genuinely believed by people who were pushing it.

Um, but the, certainly the stated propaganda, which was stated when Benjamin Netanyahu testified

in 2002 in front of Congress as a regional expert and explained how, if you overthrow

Saddam Hussein, democracy will sweep the region. This will put pressure on Iran and then they will have less influence on the region.
And a lot of these neoconservatives seemed to actually believe this. Now, I don't know if they did.
It seems to me like some of them actually did. It's the dumbest thing in the freaking world to think you would have believed there.
You had in Iraq where you have a Shiite majority that is held down by a Sunni minority that if you overthrow that government and install democracy, which means the Shiites, right? Like, because they're 60% of the country, so they win, that this will hurt Iran was insane. And anyway, so what ended up happening after the Iraq war, after we toppled Saddam Hussein, was that Iran got drastically more influence in the region.
Now, it's possible that people like Dick Cheney and Benjamin Netanyahu and them kind of knew that was going to happen. And then they were like, well, then we'll just topple around next.
So it'll all be fine. I don't know exactly, but there's no question.
And there was a piece, I believe it was in the New Yorker called the redirect in either 2006 or 2007, where basically what was decided was that now that we Iraq backfired so much and Iran has so much more

power in the region that now we got to go take the Shiites down a peg and this is really what was behind like uh the attempt to overthrow Bashar al-Assad and by the way this not overthrowing our democracy and not putting bounties on U.S. soldiers' head in Afghanistan or whatever the other lies that they made up about Vladimir Putin.
The real crime that Vladimir Putin committed was he denied the U.S. regime change in Syria.
And you could look at the way Vladimir Putin was talked about before Syria versus after Syria. It is so stark.
George W. Bush said he looked into Vladimir Putin's eyes and he was a good Christian and Hillary Clinton had her reset button.
It wasn't until he denied the American war machine, a regime change, that he became Adolf Hitler. He's hell-bent on reconstituting the Soviet Union and all this other crap.
That's really what it all started. And he saved Assad.
Apparently, he was close to Hafez al-Assad, Sharl Al-Assad's father, and Assad called him and said, I need your help, and he dispatched troops immediately, which, by the way, whatever you think of the geopolitical balance or whoever side you're on, that is kind of the key to long lasting alliances is defending your allies with troops when they ask you to. And the, you know, the Biden administration has not done that to like legit allies, whatever.
Well, also, and he was motivated to do it, I think, because he didn't want to see ISIS take over Damascus, which was a real threat at that point. And they were driving around in Toyota trucks.
Murdering all the Christians. Yeah, yeah.
And in the most barbaric, brutal way. Crucifying the Christians, but you're not allowed to notice that or something.
And Tulsi Gabbard is anti-American for caring what happens to the Christians of Syria. I think we're fast approaching a period where the people who've lied to us in all these different subjects should just be quiet.
Like, be quiet. Like, why? I don't, is there so many demand that like, I'm sorry, David Fromm or whomever, like your opinion is just not even relevant.
Morning Joe, like nobody, like why are we allowing? Yeah, it's like, you've got everything wrong, you know wrong you know truly but i think it was i think i heard you use the uh the analogy or metaphor uh but you're the um it's like the old like once they see your face they have to kill you that's right or once you see their face yeah once the kidnapper right like that's his mask and there is this feeling and i do think this is also part of what freaks them all out about Donald Trump, is that, okay, so first of all, like we were saying before, he's leading a movement of really... Every tough man in America pretty much loves Donald Trump.
Maybe not every, but, you know, the overwhelming majority of tough men in America love Donald Trump. The non-Tim Walls ones.
Yes, that's right. Including, and the well-armed ones, including many people in law enforcement and the military.
Yes. You know, and so he's got that.
Then he's running a campaign that is very specifically pointing a finger at DC and saying, these guys screwed you over. And he's also like a wild man.

Like, he can't control what he says.

It's the most charming and frustrating part of Donald Trump.

You know what I mean?

Like, even if he wanted to, he couldn't control himself.

You know what I mean?

Like, he's going to say it.

It's going to come out of his mouth.

And then he's saying things on the campaign trail in 2016.

Like, and you know, he says it in this kind of sloppy Trumpian way, but he would be like, Obama created ISIS. Obama did that.
Which is not exactly true, but there's a lot of truth to it. It's like, well, no, he didn't, but he did knowingly fund and arm them.
And that is treason, literal treason.

That is exactly what treason is.

Especially if he wasn't doing it on behalf

of the United States. Well, right.

Well, exactly. And so now, if you

imagine, okay, now this wasn't just

Obama who did

this. I mean, this was

Brennan in Operation

Timber Sycamore, right? Like this was

the plan. John Kerry's even on tape talking about how they knew.
They saw ISIS was getting the weapons and stuff, but they were like, hey, like, you know, we'll just keep promoting this myth of the moderate rebels, which is so ridiculous. And then that'll put pressure on Assad to step down.
So this is how we're going to get our regime change war. And then ISIS went and invaded Iraq.
They weren't supposed to do that. And then Obama had to go back into Iraq to kick them out.
But the point is that this is actual treason, you know, like arming, giving material aid and comfort to the enemy, like Al Qaeda in Iraq and in Syria is getting weapons from America. That is treason.
And now you got this guy who's essentially calling you out for treason, who might be the president of the United States of America. Like the punishment for treason is the death penalty.
And I do think like, I think Donald Trump himself didn't even realize what enemies you're making when you say so and how much power they have. Like you, you know, like who's the last president who like fired the head of the CIA and made a big thing about how he was going to smash it into a million pieces.
What happened to him? He took a limo ride through Dallas. Right.
So it's like Donald Trump, I think was totally naive about like, you know, he, he knew there was a swamp that needed draining, but I don't think he knew what was in that. He wasn't watching Schumer on Rachel Maddow show.
Right, right. And I do think, you know, he knew there was a swamp that needed draining, but I don't think he knew what was in that swamp.
He wasn't watching Schumer on Rachel Maddow's show. Right, right.
And I do think, you know, being in the world of business gave him a lot of correct instincts, but it's like, no, man, there's just nothing like this. Government isn't the business world.
Government is the criminal organization world, which, you know, maybe he probably had a little bit of experience in, but you know, real estate, the painter's union or whatever. Yeah.
You know, running casinos and stuff like that. I'm sure he's kind of been around, but not like this, man, that's nothing compared to you talking about the CIA.
That is a whole different, right. These are not paving contracts, right? This is control of the world.
Yeah, and so there was just all of this,

you know, got this tremendous reaction,

and he's still dealing with that.

I'm a little bit confused that for two years

we were told that the vanguard of the fight

for democracy was unfolding in Eastern Ukraine.

It mattered much more than anything

in our stupid, meaningless lives here in the United States,

and that's why all good people wore the blue

and yellow lapel pin and put the little flag

Thank you. Ukraine was really, it mattered much more than anything in our stupid, meaningless lives here in the United States.
And that's why all good people wore the blue and yellow lapel pin and put the little flags in front of their houses in Napa and all that. And then one day we just stopped hearing anything about Ukraine.
What was that? Well, I mean, it was all built off lies. And it's been a disaster, like all of these wars, and it's not gone at all the way it was supposed to.
I mean, remember, there was a period where Joe Biden, at the very beginning of the war, was just with sanctions, we're going to defeat Russia. We're going to destroy the Rupal and make everyone in Russia poor, and that'll be so great.
And we wouldn't even have to send in weapons. And then, of course, we had to.
And of course, just all the lies, Ukraine is winning, and Ghost of Kiev, all these crazy, just obvious lies.

And so... have to send in weapons and then of course we had to and of course just all the lies ukraine is winning ghost of kiev all you know these crazy just obvious lies um and so ultimately you're at a point where yeah you don't really want to talk about that because there's nothing you can point to and and brag about but isn't it crazy you know i did a um a debate on uh on this topic on um on breaking points um and uh um that's which a great show and you've you've been on uh with crystal and and sagar yeah i know sagar well yeah oh that's right he used to work for you right yes yeah yeah he's great i love that guy yeah i do um but so i was on uh i did a debate on that show and i was kind of like talking about how it was crazy for all these people who have like the ukrainian flags and we care so much about ukraine and all of this stuff it's like do you recognize that we we hold all the chips like the united states of america holds all of the chips we could get this war to stop in almost any way we wanted to if we want to just play our ultimate trump card which is is that we'll leave NATO.
I mean, there's no reason for us to be in NATO anyway. It totally makes no sense.
I know you've talked about a bunch. This was started after World War II because Europe had been totally destroyed.
America was the only advanced country that was left standing and hadn't had their homeland wrecked by the thing. And then there's this Soviet Union.
And so these guys can't defend themselves. We have to kind of work on this deal that we're not going to let you invade Western Europe or we'll come to their defense.
And now it's like Europe is rich. America's $35 trillion in debt.
And oh yeah, the Soviet Union doesn't exist.

What's the point of this thing being here?

And Vladimir Putin would do almost anything to get that to happen, to get America to leave NATO.

It would be nothing but good for us.

We just wouldn't be subsidizing other rich countries' defense.

He could take it as a huge victory.

Of course.

You know what I mean? You could get almost anything you want. And if you guys care about Ukrainians and Ukrainians dying so much, why not? Why not just make this deal? We could do it right now.
I mean, we're not getting Crimea back to Ukraine. That's not going to happen, but who cares? You know what I mean? You could get the end to the war immediately if you were to do this.
Do you know how many jobs now occupied by people with no skills whatsoever, totally pointless people, pure parasites on our economy and culture would be lost if we get rid of NATO? Yeah, well, that's the problem. That's 100% the problem.
That's the issue. It's why not get rid of the energy department or the education department.
I mean, they've served no purpose other than self-perpetuation. And they've made all of those areas much worse than they were, right? It's like unbelievable.
I mean, like the state of education in America, what did it get a lot better since, what was it, Jimmy Carter, I think, created the Department of Education? It's like, what? And of course, like, I mean, it's, you know, because this model doesn't work. It should have been the one lesson of the 20th century.
That model doesn't work. Centralized control does not work.
This is why all of those countries failed and continue to fail everywhere it's tried. And now we're doing it and we're failing.
Because it benefits the few. So let me circle back to the beginning of the conversation here at the end.
You haven't been here in two and a half months, maybe? A lot has changed.

All of your kind of core suspicions

have been confirmed, I think,

by the assassination attempt and the subsequent coup.

Where does that leave you?

Like, we just spent a couple hours

talking about how bad things are

and about all the signs that they're,

ominous signs that they're about to get much worse does that make you feel afraid hopeful excited a combination yeah probably a combination i would say you know which by the way we didn't even really get into the coup but it is pretty crazy how much of a blatant coup we just watched i've seen people like uh um like democrats on on social media and stuff and they'll uh they they'll call people like us out and they'll be like, well, first you said the guy was too senile to run and now you're saying it was a coup when they removed him. You're like, yeah, both are true.
I don't know what to tell you. The guy is clearly senile and also he is still the president of the United States of America and there's a process here.
They'll literally, I mean, they'll say, and it's just,

the one thing I can't get over

is not that people disagree with me.

I assume people

are always going to disagree with me.

I'm often wrong.

So it's like,

it's okay to disagree with me.

What I can never metabolize,

accept,

deal with

is people's willingness

to just say anything.

You just like move the goalpost.

Because it's expedient.

Yeah, yeah.

The capacity for lying

among certain people just blows my mind. You tell Joe Scarborough, you got to say this because there's some material advantage to you.
He will say it no matter what it is. Yeah.
And all that way. It's like, how would you describe threatening a man until he agrees not to run for president again and then installing somebody without a vote.
Like, that's a coup. And by the way, it's totally unclear, and I would say, we don't know for sure, but I would say, like, the high likelihood is that he didn't ever agree to it until after the letter was out.
I mean, look, it is, you cannot overstate how bizarre it is that a few weeks before the Democratic convention, when Joe Biden had already gone through a couple weeks of all these calls for him to step down at every single turn said, no, I've made up my mind. I am not stepping down.
It's me versus Trump. So get used to it.
I beat him last time and I'll beat him again this time. That morning, the morning that the letter comes out was Sunday.
His surrogates are going on the Sunday talk shows and saying enough with this. Like an hour before the letter comes out.
Enough of this. He's made up his mind.
He's running, even after Pelosi and Schumer meet with him, even after the 90 million or whatever is held back from his country, he's like, no, I'm going to. And then, you're telling me, the sitting president of the United States of America, a few weeks before the convention, is announcing that he won't be seeking re-election.
And this is not done in an address to the nation. This is done on personal stationary and just tweeted out.
And then in a separate tweet, he endorses Kamala Harris. And it's not for days later that we hear from the president.
Like that is crazy. I mean, I know so many crazy things are going on that it's like, it's almost easy to not appreciate how crazy that one is, but it and you could say oh he had COVID or whatever they just get up

I don't know, put on one of those masks that you guys pretended worked for so many years and like, go, he can even be an edited video. It doesn't have to be live.
I mean, just like, I know he stumbles a lot or whatever. It could be two minutes, but how do you not address the American people about that? And it just, it really seems like, and of course, Cy Hirsch had that reporting on the call with Obama where they threatened, they had Kamala Harris on board.
We're going to invoke the 25th amendment. But my suspicion is that that phone call happened, you know, like the Schumer and Pelosi strong arming didn't work.
Obama comes in, we're going to remove you from office and this will be your legacy. And then the letter is tweeted out already and it's presented as a fait accompli to him.
It's all over. And then eventually he goes, I have no choice.
But what does it say? I mean, if the sitting president of the United States, purportedly the most powerful man in the world, doesn't have enough power to run again for the job he currently holds, he cannot, he's not allowed to. It's not, none of it's real.
The presidency is not real. The president doesn't hold the power.
I mean, they just showed us that. Yep.
So it's then, how do you, I mean, people are not thinking this through. Our system is voluntary.
All systems are. How do they expect us to accept the election results, abide by those results, pay our taxes? How do they expect us to obey when the system has been revealed as illegitimate? Yeah.
Well, it's the only way would be some type of escalation of force, you know? I mean, that's the only way to do it. I will say though that, you know, much like when the Soviet Union collapsed and was largely peaceful, you know, and was kind of like a really amazing thing.
It was very peaceful. And now what happened in the years following it was not good and that didn't need to happen.
And, you know. No, but they pulled their nuclear weapons out of all their satellite states.
They dissolved the Warsaw Pact. I mean, that happened, by the way, 33 years ago this week.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
I was on my honeymoon and uh and you know there there were people at the top who wanted to not let it happen like no escalate the force and don't let this happen put down these revolts like they had done previously and ultimately they just kind of lost and like enough people were just like no just let them go. You know, so that's, you kind of hope that

something like that can happen in the United States of America. And that doesn't mean like, uh, a national divorce type thing, which is something that has become kind of a popular thing that some people advocate for.
Um, but it does mean some type of like decentralization of power and Washington just having much less power than it currently does have. I think that it is, and I said this to you last time, it's the great case for optimism, is that all of this government tyranny relies on propaganda.
And the propaganda is being broken at an unbelievable rate. Things that would have seemed unimaginable very recently in my adult lifetime, like not, you know, generations ago, but just years ago.
And we're seeing that now. And people are waking up in a very profound way.
I mean, it really is. It is all fake.
And more and more people are aware of that.

Like it's, if you zoom out and go like from my mother's, you know, when my mother was my age

to me being this age, it is unbelievable how much more people understand that this is all fake.

And you're right. Propaganda is the key.
I mean, Joseph Goebbels, not to make everything a Nazi

reference, but it was 5-4, crippled, never fired a gun on his life except into his own head in the end, never commanded an army. You know, he was the political chief of Berlin, but he was the propaganda chief.
And therefore he was the pivotal person in the Nazi government. He was because he was in charge of people's brains.
And so that you cannot, and I'm not comparing anyone to the Nazis. I hate Nazi references in general, but that's just true.
Propaganda is kind of everything actually. Yeah.
And that it's, it's the most powerful thing to control. It's more powerful than controlling the laws or the money or the military.
You control what is absolutely right. You control what people think, you know?

You control narratives.

And it's amazing.

I mean, look, it's still very effective.

Oh, I know.

It's not nearly as effective as it once was.

But it is still there.

And you see it like when people get taken over by the propaganda.

It's such a bizarre thing.

I mean, it's like talking to someone and there's no soul there

when they just repeat back the propaganda to you or something. January 6th wasth was an insurrection you're like i'm not having a conversation with you i'm having a conversation with like what don lemon convinced you you're supposed to believe no people who've fallen for that yeah i mean i don't know in like my close circle or anything like that but what do you think i know i'm so far afield afield again, but I'm just, I don't know the answer to this.
What distinguishes someone who falls for the crudest kind of propaganda, January 6th was an insurrection, Don Lemon smart, whatever the lie is, from you? Some of these people are smart. I mean, it's not just an IQ difference.
Oh, no, no, no. It's not an IQ difference.
Oh, I know. There's people far smarter than me who fall for it.
Oh, me too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No question about that. So what is it? I don't completely know.
I think there's something about, there's, it's like human beings are, we're pack animals, you know, and that's like very at the core of us. Yes.
You stay within the pack because like out here is death. You know if I'm like so like you stay in here.

Right. And there's something

there's a personality type that

certain people have. It's not

again it is not about being left or right.

It's not at all. But there's

something where people have you know like

there's people who like I

disagree with on a lot of issues

but like Alex Berenson

is very willing to go outside the pack. I totally agree.
He's like oh, you want to like have all these arrows come at me? Okay, fine. You know, Glenn Greenwald is very willing to do that.
I think you're very willing to do that. Berenson's such a great example because I, I really like Berenson.
I text them all the time. But I just absolutely disagree with him on a lot of, a lot of issues, but I will never stop.
During COVID, he was so great. I mean, his sub stack was like cathartic to read during COVID.
I totally agree. And it was, he is smart.
Berenson's smart. He's a good reporter.
I think he's a really nice guy, but really his indispensable quality was bravery. Yeah, that's right.
That's what made him different. That's it.
Because look, I mean, like he was in. Yeah.
You were in and you're in the New York Times. You're in all this and you're going to risk all of that just to be right about something, you know? I mean, like it doesn't even make sense when I say it out loud.
You're like, why would you do that? It's a terrible calculation. It's totally true.
But there are some people who just do kind of, so that's, you know, but when you, so many of the people who, and this is something, I don't say this like attacking right wing America. I just, it's something like to be humble about.
But like in 2002, in the run-up to the war in Iraq, so many of these people who are like great now about seeing through all of this, just knew it as a certainty that like obviously Saddam Hussein has nuclear weapons and he clearly was involved in 9-11 and like he's gonna hand these nukes that he doesn't have off to the terrorists. He's not friends with, and they're going to nuke Kansas unless you go support overthrowing him.
And they just knew that as a matter of time. And essentially, what are you, some type of wimp if you don't agree with them on that.
And they didn't even kind of realize that they were, they were doing the exact same thing as some 20 year old who tells you about climate change. You're just repeating lies that someone else put into your head.
Like, you are a puppet right now. You know what I mean? And you don't even realize it.
And so, but it was like, I don't know. That was the culture they were in.
That was the world they were in. They saw these towers get hit.
And what are you, a pussy? No, you were going to go do something about that. And so it's people play, like,

people's sense of identity is very important to them. I remember, okay, one time I was,

I have a younger brother who's much younger than me. He's 13 years younger than me from my

mother's second marriage. And he's great.
Unbelievable kid. I love him to death.
And so

he was, I think he was three years old. So would I was 16 and I was watching a Knicks game I'll never forget this three year old kid and he comes over to me and he was like asking about it and I was like yeah come watch the game with me and so we're sitting on the couch he's three we're watching a Knicks game and he he looked at me and he went well which one is me and I was like what do you mean which one is you it was I was like oh we're rooting for the team in the blue shirts and then he kind of accepted that like okay that's but I just remember always thinking there's like this it's like so profound that that's what's in us it's like okay you want me to want me to get into this kind of projected abstraction? So who am I? What defines me? That's so important to people.
It's right at the core of everything. It's like, who am I as a person? What's my identity? And I think that for, look, you saw this with broadly speaking, liberal like broadly speaking, like liberal America.
Well, during COVID it's like their identity, their whole identity is that they're the scientific people. You know, you, you guys are the backwards rubes who believe in superstition and religion, but we believe in science and reason and love.
This is what makes us better. That's their identity.
So once you tell them that it's like, well, the science says this, it was so easy to get them in. It's why it's so easy to get them in on climate change.
And then with like more conservative America, their whole identity is that like, they're the tough ones who defend the country, who aren't wusses, who will defend the constitution. And so as soon as you fed them a narrative that, you know, gave them that identity, it was so easy to fool them with all this other stuff.
So I do think that's a big part of, like, they're very good. That's what the propagandists do at their best, is they play off your sense of self, your identity.
It's moral judo. Yeah, yeah.
They use your body weight against you. They take your momentum and pull you.
Exactly. Way past where you thought you would be.
But more and more people are waking up to that stuff now. And so that's good.
You've had a big effect on a lot of people, including me. And I appreciate, Dave Smith, you're coming.
I mean, Tucker, I could do this all day long with you. Good.
Well, I hope you come back before we're both arrested. That would be nice.
And we can say once again, man, it's only been two and a half months, but everything's different.

Yeah, I hope. I mean, even if we could just share a cell once we get arrested, that would be real free.

Just continue this on and on.

I will never submit. Thanks, man.

Thank you.

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