What’s Going on in Memphis With Chris Vernon, and a Trip Around the West With Michael Pina

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Speaker 1 Coming up on the Zach Lowe show, the NBA never fails to deliver, does it? You know, early season, just ease

Speaker 1 unwrap all the gifts that are the new teams with their new lineups. How's this working? How's that working? No, John Morant suspended for conduct detrimental to the team.
Is this it?

Speaker 1 Is the John Morant era in Memphis, whatever the era has amounted to, over? We're going to talk about that with Chris Verno. Yeah, Memphis is on Chris Verno.

Speaker 1 Then Michael Pina will chip in with some fake trades. That's going to be fun.

Speaker 1 And then Pina and I are going to bounce around some of the Western Conference teams I haven't hit so deeply yet in the first couple weeks of the season. Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, Pelicans.

Speaker 1 Oh my God, Thunder. Just keep on winning.
We're going to go all across the Western Conference. We're going to do some Trey Young injury.

Speaker 1 How is that going to affect the Hawks? How do they adjust from that? It's just a lot going on in the NBA for a weekend. There's always a lot going on in the NBA weekend.

Speaker 1 So it should be a fun show coming up right after this.

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Speaker 1 Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show. It's Monday morning, and the NBA waited about 10 days before going wild.

Speaker 1 And the wildness, well, there's a nexus of unpleasant wildness in the Western Conference, which we might connect from one team to two teams to three teams, but it starts in Memphis.

Speaker 1 Chris Vernon is here, the voice of Memphis, the voice of the mismatch with our buddy Jacoby. Chris, John Morant,

Speaker 1 disengaged against the Lakers on Friday, standing in the corner. Might as well, if he had pockets, he would have had his hands in his pockets.

Speaker 1 If he had a phone, he would have been texting in the corner while someone else did. Santi Aldama is trying to Eurostep his way into the lane.
Then, after the game, he gives a brusque interview.

Speaker 1 I don't know, ask the coaches, they probably don't even want to play me. Then it turns out he gets suspended for one game.
Conduct detrimental to the team for, I guess,

Speaker 1 not reacting well to the coaches calling him out in a team meeting, according to Shams, who had it first. Verno,

Speaker 1 how are we feeling this morning? I'm okay. I mean, it was all going so well.

Speaker 1 You know, the team doesn't have their full roster of guys. And then, you know, it wasn't all that bad at the beginning.

Speaker 1 I think they were three and two going into that game. Morant had hit two game winners.

Speaker 1 You know, there's still some growing pains going on. You got a new coach.
You got some new pieces to the roster. But, you know, it's been up and down.

Speaker 1 But the teams you had lost to, at that point, you had lost to Miami and Golden State. So it wasn't the worst thing ever.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 that game hit, and, of course, in the second half of that game, I'm texting my buddies, like, what is going on?

Speaker 1 Like, something happened here because I know that the reports have been that in a post-game something, like, I feel like something must have happened at halftime because the way the team came out, they were up 14 on the Lakers at halftime.

Speaker 1 And then they came out, and Morant was completely disengaged. And

Speaker 1 it was just bizarre. Like, you just don't, it just doesn't happen.
And then you get to the post-game. And then that happens.
And you're like, okay,

Speaker 1 something did happen.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 by the time you get to Saturday morning, this is when I talk to you. When you text me, I,

Speaker 1 of course, my Twitter feed blows up. Of course, my Instagram feed blows up.
I say, you know what? I'm going to make the decision here. I'm going to go play golf.

Speaker 1 I'm going to gamble on college football. And I'm going to have a good Saturday.
That's what I'm doing. I'm not dealing with this.
Then you get to Saturday night.

Speaker 1 And at that point, you talk to people about it. And Shoms comes out with his report about Morant being called out, et cetera, et cetera.
Saturday night, there's a picture of the team posted.

Speaker 1 Zach Eady has paid for everyone to go to game seven of the World Series. And so now they're all standing there, they're smiling, they're having a good time.
You're like, oh, okay.

Speaker 1 Well, now this makes, like, but it is weird. Like, Ja's not there.
And then by the time you get to Saturday as well, right before that, you've got that they have suspended John Morant.

Speaker 1 Okay, how's he going to take this?

Speaker 1 Right before tip off last night, John Morant goes on Instagram and posts Go Grizz. And you're like, and I think at that point, there was like a huge sigh.
Everybody's like, oh, okay.

Speaker 1 Like, this is going to. And Tumas Isola has his press conference, and he says, you know, the organization,

Speaker 1 you know, sets a standard. It didn't meet our standard.
He'll rejoin our team on Monday. And

Speaker 1 basically, we'll move on from there. So we will see now, right, they play a game against Detroit tonight.
And that's what we'll see.

Speaker 1 Inevitably, Joe will talk to the media about this, and it's going to go one way or the other. But I think that post-it happening,

Speaker 1 most people feel

Speaker 1 better about it than they did certainly on Friday night when it seemed like a catastrophe.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 this is going to be interesting because it's going to be the first time that this has happened where

Speaker 1 I don't know how much you knew about this coach, and I don't think most of the NBA people do.

Speaker 1 He was the highest regarded coach overseas and came and was part of the staff last year, and then was given the head job.

Speaker 1 There is all manner. He is like a guy that grew up in a social media and YouTube age.
So you could find a billion clips of him. A billion.
Okay?

Speaker 1 One of which

Speaker 1 is him doing an X's and O's, like, sit-down interview, and he's talking about how he developed as a coach and the biggest breakthrough moment for him as a coach. You're going to relate to this a lot.

Speaker 1 He says, coaches all have these games, and then they go back to the coach's room after, and they say, this guy's an a-hole, and this guy's not doing what he's doing, and if this guy didn't do this, and they all do it.

Speaker 1 He said, every one of them does it. I did it.
So you all go, and then you go out to eat and you complain about your players and you go, whatever. He said,

Speaker 1 I decided that's never going to be me.

Speaker 1 I am going to take everything head on.

Speaker 1 That's what I'm doing. No matter who it is, I'm taking it head on.
And he said, and so I did this in Germany. He said, I walk into the locker room and he said, I did this many times.

Speaker 1 I walk in and I said, you're not doing, you're holding the team back. You're doing this.
You're doing this. you're doing this.
Like, just confront him,

Speaker 1 his player then, in front of everyone. And he said, and the worst thing that happens is the player gets pissed off at you for a couple of hours, maybe 24 hours.

Speaker 1 In the end,

Speaker 1 he gets them back in the fold. And after I started doing it, we won 80% of our games in Germany.
So again. This is a guy that has this core belief that nothing will be passive aggressive.

Speaker 1 Nothing will be, and so now you move to

Speaker 1 how does this work in the NBA with stars? And

Speaker 1 this is the litmus test, right? Like, there's no greater litmus test than for this to happen six games into the season.

Speaker 1 And you're about to see, either he's right and John Morant comes back into the fold, and it makes you a much better team, and you just decide this is the way things are with this team, as opposed to maybe other places you've been, or it's going to turn the player off.

Speaker 1 You just don't know. It's a great way to approach life and basketball.
Because I was talking about another team, which I will get to later, and just

Speaker 1 the toxicity of whisper campaigns, of the assistant coach getting to know this player, and also sort of starting to maybe badmouth the head coach to that player, and how that just slowly rots away at the culture of your team and the trust of your team.

Speaker 1 So I admire the stance. I'm glad you're optimistic.
I'm glad that the Instagram comment has changed your view of the entire situation.

Speaker 1 No, I'll tell you this. We have a mutual friend in David Thorpe.
I was talking to him about it yesterday. And I said,

Speaker 1 I understand the public perception of Morant. I know that I'm just going to be called a homer.
I don't even care. But I've known the kid since he was 19 years old.
He's not a dirtbag.

Speaker 1 He's not a bad guy, right? And I think that many times when things like this happen,

Speaker 1 the bad guy says, F this coach, F this team.

Speaker 1 And I don't think he's a bad guy. I don't, well, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 I think his response,

Speaker 1 I would be surprised if Morant is not on board. I really would.

Speaker 1 I think, I mean, look, he got suspended for a game. He did

Speaker 1 not. What other choice does he have? He had no choice.
And, well, right. He has no choice.

Speaker 1 And he is a guy that, though the world wants, you know, has been trying to trade him since the day he came here.

Speaker 1 He's got Memphis tattooed across his back and has made it very clear he doesn't want to be anywhere else, that this is home. And so, again, if that is so as well, you work it out, right?

Speaker 1 This is like you get, you know what I mean? You get in a fight with your wife and you're either right,

Speaker 1 you got to go under the same roof the next night.

Speaker 1 Here's,

Speaker 1 you, you hit it early when you said something must have happened here because i watched that game friday night and it was it was alarming um

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 then i'm like what is he like what's he pouting about because this whole offensive makeover that he didn't like last year is over i looked at the tracking data this morning He's running 54 pick and rolls per 100 possessions.

Speaker 1 That's the most of any season in his career. So what's he cranky about? What's he standing in the corner doing nothing about?

Speaker 1 And I found it, I mean, he started that game with a backdoor cut from the left corner and a dunk.

Speaker 1 And it made me remember all the reasons I fell in love with John Moran as a young player because of the way he was constantly engaged with his teammates in ways that not every ball-dominant superstar is, up to and including moving off the ball in a really active way to sort of not, not even just to get shots for himself, to bend bend the defense suck it in somewhere else someone else gets a shot I've always said early jaw one of my favorite things he would do is get out on a fast break it would be one on two and every young ball handler in the league with his level of speed and athleticism which I realize is a small number they're like this is my time I can roast both of these dudes he would slow down wait for things like waves crashing over him and some like here's Desmond Bain in the wake open for three he would he played like a guy who wanted to bring his teammates with him and that's the way teammates talked about him when they first made the playoffs against Utah that first other year.

Speaker 1 That guy who's pouting and doing nothing off the ball is a completely different guy who, instead of wanting to bring his teammates with him, has isolated himself on the floor from his teammates and is doing nothing.

Speaker 1 And I hope.

Speaker 1 And then, oh, and then, no, even worse was the Huddles.

Speaker 1 I mean, he was out and away from the Huddles or whatever. Right? So this is either going to get through to him or it's not.

Speaker 1 I don't know what all went on here, but it seems like, right, it segment, we were 48 hours removed from him having 28, 8, and 7 and hitting a game winner. Like, this is not

Speaker 1 some festering, horrible thing. This was like, what happened that night? Why was it so dramatic? Why did it become such a big deal?

Speaker 1 Because, again,

Speaker 1 he's hit two game winners.

Speaker 1 And also, and I got it. Like, I saw all the numbers.
The shooting numbers are terrible. This is down.
This is down. Zach, they are playing the worst wing combination in the entire NBA.

Speaker 1 It's not even close. You can't start KCP and Wells.

Speaker 1 And you can't. Morant sees three guys every time he picks his head up.
And

Speaker 1 all the centers are injured except for Jackson and Landale. The other guys are all injured.

Speaker 1 So then they'll eventually get Edie back. They'll eventually get Ty Jerome back.
Coward will end up in the starting lineup.

Speaker 1 This is the way this is going to go. But for right now, I'm sure there's a level of frustration.
Like, they're playing. And you know this.
KCP

Speaker 1 is a,

Speaker 1 well, I mean, he had been a championship level fifth option, but that's what he is. He's the fifth option, right?

Speaker 1 Wells is a fifth option, right? Landell is a fifth option. And so you can't put Morant and Jackson out there in three fifth options, right?

Speaker 1 Like, that's got to be figured out, and you've got to make life easier on him. That being said, he cannot act like that.
And they made that abundantly clear and suspended in four acting.

Speaker 1 Well, again, like, what are you mad about? And if you're mad, your teammates aren't as good as they used to be.

Speaker 1 I get the frustration. What you just said,

Speaker 1 they have a million injuries. Scotty Pippen Jr.
is injured.

Speaker 1 They have injuries all up and down the roster, and they're starting a win combination. Like, I like Wells fine.
He just is what he is. Um, but your job as the leader of the team.
No, no, they're good.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they're good players. They're just not, it's not a starting combination.
Your job as the leader of the team is: I'm going to lift this group up with me, and we're going to make it work.

Speaker 1 And he did the polar opposite. It's only one game.
I don't want to react to it, but I will say, like, it just makes me sad because of how

Speaker 1 he played early in his career. And I just, look, this is going to irritate you, and I'm excited to irritate you.

Speaker 1 This is just like all this whole time

Speaker 1 has just been like a whole lot of noise and a whole lot of bluster for a player who has won one playoff series in his entire NBA career.

Speaker 1 And you're going to tell me they were injured against Golden State in 2022, including Morant missed a game in that series, and they were.

Speaker 1 You're going to tell me they were injured, especially on the front line against the Lakers in 2023 when Dylan Brooks embarrassed himself and embarrassed the franchise. And they were.
That's all great.

Speaker 1 This is just like, it's just a lot. And it's a lot for here.
Are the last four years? 57 games, 61 games, nine games. We don't even have to get into why the nine games happened.

Speaker 1 50 games already suspended this year. I don't want to be the old man yelling at Cloud and doing the rings thing, but can you win like a little more on the big stage before you are

Speaker 1 just doing this? Like, I just, can you, can we just have some calm? Can we just have some calm and some winning over a more extended period of time? I am fascinated

Speaker 1 that you think that that would get under my skin. I couldn't agree with you more.
Do you think my Saturday, I told you on Saturday I want to play golf and I want to watch college football. And like,

Speaker 1 nobody wants to deal with this. What are we talking about? I mean, look.

Speaker 1 And because I've been in Memphis for the 25 years and because I have been, you know, the guy talking about the Grizzlies for 25 years, it all like, do you think my Saturday is delightful when it's just people say, you know, like, do you think that's what I wanted to when my texts are blowing up, when my friends are all calling me, when my Twitter feed blows up?

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 1 I agree, Zach. I don't, I would much prefer not having the drama.

Speaker 1 And they are injured right now. And I thought, all things considered, up until that game, and throw out the Toronto loss when he's suspended, right? Just throw that in the garbage.

Speaker 1 I thought, like, they're like, you and I are aligned in this sense. Like, they just win a good amount of games when Morant and Jackson are healthy.
That's always been true.

Speaker 1 And I don't want to sit here and minimize winning in the regular season. It's hard to win 48 games or 52 games or 49 games in the Western Conference over and over again in the regular season.

Speaker 1 That's a meaningful thing. Being the two-seed is a meaningful thing.
If you lose, you lose. That happens in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 You've been right about that i just well and that's why they've put that's why anybody like when you say i i got it right they haven't won at the highest level enough but when he is on the court they've won 60 of their games right during his career it's a big caveat in the front of that sentence but there's big caveat there are a lot of guys though that he is placed in like that like when people bring up zion or people bring up lamello he's not in that same class there aren't that many guys that when you have them you win there's not.

Speaker 1 There's really not. To your earlier point, he's also been largely surrounded by good players for most of his career.

Speaker 1 Whereas a guy like Lamello Ball, who's frankly outplaying him by a lot this season, has not been.

Speaker 1 I will end with you, because you got to go do your job. I will end with you with this.
If this goes badly

Speaker 1 and they do end up investigating the trade market,

Speaker 1 what do you think they want out of that kind of trade? Because the Bain trade was like kind of a,

Speaker 1 described it as a pivot trade, like not a rebuild trade, but in terms of the assets they got, it was a rebuild-oriented trade. It was picks that they turned into coward.

Speaker 1 They still have some stuff left over.

Speaker 1 The Jackson extension is a we want to remain pretty good right now while we figure out the rest of this roster, which is, as Zach Kleiman said on Media Day, kind of contingent on Morant re-entering like the high-level all-NBA guard conversation that he is, frankly, not like the number of guards that have passed him by in the past three years is alarming for the Grizzlies.

Speaker 1 And he's too young to give up on, obviously, getting back into like, can he be Maxie? Can he be up with Halliburton? Can he be up with any of these guys again?

Speaker 1 But the Jackson extension was like, we're going to be relevant and good now while we figure it out later. If this goes badly,

Speaker 1 where do you think they aim a Morant trade at? I do not think. I mean, look, I was there last year when Zach Kleinman, when all the stories came out, and Zach Kleinman said, stop it.

Speaker 1 We're not trading John Moran.

Speaker 1 And so I guess the question would be, do you think what happened Friday night changes that? And I just don't.

Speaker 1 I don't, Zach. I don't.
In a small market, and you also have to consider, right? They just got, right, you may have heard on the news, right? Downtown is now,

Speaker 1 the idea was downtown is going to become safer and safer and safer, right?

Speaker 1 What the state is doing. And then obviously you've got the federal government that got involved, right? You got an enormous sum of money from the state to make improvements to your arena.

Speaker 1 And I don't think that people outside of Memphis understand

Speaker 1 what Morant means to the players.

Speaker 1 And look,

Speaker 1 are we too forgiving? Are we too patient? Are we too delusional? Whatever you want to call it. But he has an outsized importance for the fan base, for the city.
He's their guy. He's their guy, right?

Speaker 1 For better or for worse.

Speaker 1 And look, there have been infinitely, as you know, infinitely bigger mistakes than this made.

Speaker 1 So this is, this is, this is

Speaker 1 so,

Speaker 1 I mean, one game, a one-game suspension is nothing.

Speaker 1 Like, he's made much bigger mistakes, but he's their guy, right? And he puts asses in the seats. And right now,

Speaker 1 that he does.

Speaker 1 And the future of the franchise depends on getting him on board and making him a part of this.

Speaker 1 And I just don't, I don't think they would, honestly, and they may be foolish, and I can hear everybody saying then they're stupid. I don't think they'd even take, I think they would hang up.

Speaker 1 I don't even think that that's even their in their purview. I don't.
I think it is fix this, right?

Speaker 1 You know, sometimes once upon a time. Of course, fix this is the number one option.
Right, right. I don't think you hang up.
I don't think they hang up. No, no, no.
I think it's for them.

Speaker 1 I think it's for them the only option. There's some people you know that say divorce is not an option.
I'm not getting divorced, so let's work it out.

Speaker 1 And there's some people that are okay with it. Well, that's that's a

Speaker 1 that's not great.

Speaker 1 I know it's

Speaker 1 oh no, you and you might end up living a miserable life. I understand.
I'm gonna just

Speaker 1 put a pin in it and say

Speaker 1 again, we'll see how the team plays, right? Like, if he plays, if he plays like this, like like he's played the season, right?

Speaker 1 So he's a good player, a very good player, but likely not an all-star, right? Okay, and the team is hovering around 500, maybe a little bit below 500.

Speaker 1 Even if there's no more

Speaker 1 public disputes or suspensions or pouting or anything like that,

Speaker 1 I do think the team just needs to take another hard look as they did last year. And if the phone rings,

Speaker 1 and if it's a team that's like hungry,

Speaker 1 I don't think you can hang up. But we'll put opinion in because it is a long season.

Speaker 1 You got to remind yourself, it's a long season. The Warriors look like world beaters, and they lose a couple games.
You guys, this is crisis three and four. It's a long season.
Chris Vernon.

Speaker 1 I can't wait. I mean, look, I'll be there tonight.
We'll see.

Speaker 1 This goes one way or the other, right?

Speaker 1 Your favorite guy years ago. I mean, I saw this happen where a coach called a guy out and he just shut down on him, and that was Mark Gasol.
Yeah. I mean, the Fizzdale thing just went the wrong way.

Speaker 1 The Fizz era was

Speaker 1 the wrong way. But

Speaker 1 we're about to find out if this kind of coaching can work in 2025 because everybody's just kind of found you know robots to coach their teams that everybody can you know marionette you know in the front and does the bidding of the front office.

Speaker 1 And those old school guys are out, but this is much more an old school approach for sure. We'll see how it takes.
Chris Vernon, you're the man. Go do your actual job.
It's great to see you.

Speaker 1 I've said how did you call it before me? My man. Thanks, Zach.

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Speaker 1 All right, Michael Pina is here. Michael,

Speaker 1 Chris Vernon just came on and told me all about how the Grizzlies are not going to trade John Moran. He means too much to the city.
And I agree. Like, nothing is imminent right now.

Speaker 1 Nothing is imminent now.

Speaker 1 But the events of the weekend made me me log into the trade machine and go through my fake trades, and especially some other connected events of the weekend made me interested too.

Speaker 1 So I'm just going to go through

Speaker 1 the teams that I at least paused on and then zero in on a couple, right? And we can do a couple fake trades. You ready?

Speaker 3 Perfect.

Speaker 1 Toronto, a lot of big salaries. Emmanuel Quickley's kind of been disappointing this year.
Don't see it.

Speaker 1 Phoenix, just can't ever underestimate their willingness to do something crazy, and they have some salaries and they're not aproned out anymore.

Speaker 1 Don't think it's don't, I think they're kind of liking the we're frisky defense. Jalen Green hasn't even played yet.
We'll see what happens. Again, nothing is happening now.

Speaker 1 Brooklyn, no, just drafted a million point guards, none of whom are playing anymore, really, except for them and played last night. Chicago missed the window.
Bulls are too good now.

Speaker 1 Josh Giddy's a triple-double machine. Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Charlotte, Lamella Ball is better than John Morant right now.

Speaker 1 And no.

Speaker 1 Miami,

Speaker 1 interesting.

Speaker 1 A little directionless. Heroes out still.

Speaker 1 They have some young players. They have the Wiggins salary.

Speaker 1 They have all the pieces you would need. They have the Rogier disaster hanging over their head.
Don't see it right now.

Speaker 1 Orlando still needs a point guard, I guess, despite all these attempts to get better guards, but too soon.

Speaker 1 They're going to find their way. They're fine.
Washington, too early. Utah, too early.
Keontae Georgia is playing well. That brings us to to the big two.

Speaker 1 Sacramento.

Speaker 1 I almost want to

Speaker 1 make a Morant Sacramento jersey now, just so I have it just in case. We're going to get back to Sacramento, who I believe is 2-4 after a rollicking win in Milwaukee.
They played Denver tonight.

Speaker 1 Yeah, 2-4.

Speaker 1 And then New Orleans.

Speaker 1 And we'll start there.

Speaker 1 This is such a disaster. It's even bigger of a disaster than I could have imagined.
They're 0-6.

Speaker 1 Their scoring margin is minus 18.1.

Speaker 1 I watched their Thunder game. They played the Thunder on Sunday.

Speaker 1 I'm just saying this.

Speaker 1 It doesn't make me feel good to say it. Willie Green was on the hot seat when the season started.

Speaker 1 That game and that performance against an Oklahoma City team with no Jalen Williams, no Chet Holmgren,

Speaker 1 no

Speaker 1 other people. I don't even remember.
They were Mrs. Lou Dort.

Speaker 1 No Lou Dort.

Speaker 1 They looked so outclassed, so discombobulated on both ends of the floor. Defensively, just, I mean, they might have just,

Speaker 1 it was like five people had five different game plans and were running in five different directions. And the commonality of the directions was away from wide open three-point shooters.

Speaker 1 Jordan Poole, just one absolutely grotesque shot after another. Just no pass, dribble up, shoot a three.
Just grotesque.

Speaker 1 That was a game where

Speaker 1 I've covered the NBA long enough now that I've seen that game before. That was

Speaker 1 pretty close to, if not, a dead coach walking game. Like, that was a team that was broken, that looked like a team that had kind of given up.

Speaker 1 And if we got a coaching change this week in New Orleans, I would not be surprised. And that's not really going to solve anything.
Because what's really happening here and why this is the disaster is

Speaker 1 the two linked transactions of trading the Pacers their 2026 pick back.

Speaker 1 Couldn't have known Halliburton was about to get injured and this pick was going to be a gold mine, but trading it back to get the Pacers pick in last year's draft or this most recent draft in order to get all your ammo together, including your unprotected pick in 2026, to trade up 10 spots to get Derek Queen.

Speaker 1 We all knew the trade was a catastrophe catastrophe of the moment it happened. It almost doesn't even matter how good Derrick Queen is.

Speaker 1 Derek Queen, in what kind of felt like the coaching staff may be giving a little bit of an FU to the front office. I don't know.
I'm just, I just, that's how it felt to me watching it.

Speaker 1 Benched until garbage time against the Thunder. Jordan Hawkins can't even get in the game until garbage time.

Speaker 1 Almost no matter how good Derek Queen is, that trade is just an asset management disaster. And now looks like

Speaker 1 DEF CON won worst case scenario, which is why they have to be included because they have DeJounte Murray's $30 million salary.

Speaker 1 That trade by the previous administration, Dave Griffin, did not work out. But this Dumars Weaver trade that happened is like

Speaker 1 going to be a masterclass in how not to run an NBA team. That one, those two transactions.
Forget the Poole McCollum transaction, which I didn't understand either.

Speaker 1 That's why they have to be included in any like, is it crazy to unite the top two picks of the 2019 draft, Morant and Zion? I don't know, but like, they have to be monitored.

Speaker 1 I just,

Speaker 1 I don't even know where you want to start with any of this. The Pelicans thing is so alarming.
It's so alarming how bad they are.

Speaker 1 Zion's shooting 49% on twos.

Speaker 1 It's not good enough. Like, he looks okay.
He leads the league in free throw attempts per game. He looks pretty explosive.

Speaker 1 The finishing ability just has not been there since that injury in the Lakers play-in game two years ago at the way it needs to be to compensate for the total lack of shooting, um, the so-so defense, and he hasn't been up to like he's not full-time point Zion.

Speaker 1 Like, they just don't have enough ball handling between Poole and him, and they don't even start pooling anymore. Fierce looks good.
The silver lining is Fears, looks good, zero fears.

Speaker 1 I have no fears about Fears. Where do you even want to start with this three-team nexus of mess in the West?

Speaker 3 So,

Speaker 3 first of all, I'm glad you mentioned Jeremiah Fears. He is the silver lining, he's the flickering candle at the end of the tunnel in New Orleans, I suppose.

Speaker 3 But no, just, you know, you gave me a bunch of teams that you wanted to talk about today, and the New Orleans Pelicans were one of them.

Speaker 3 And my first sentence that I wrote down in my notes here is biggest catastrophe in the league, easily. Them not having their first round pick this year, starting off the way they did.

Speaker 3 Basically giving up on Willie Green, playing in that Thunder game. And even in portions of the almost win that they had against the Los Angeles Clippers, Kwai Leonard hits a buzzer beater to win.

Speaker 3 It's like Derek Jones had like five tip dunks. Like no one wants to box anybody.

Speaker 1 There was a rebound. There was a rebound.
I think it was the start of the second quarter against the Thunder. First possession of the second quarter for the Thunder.
Someone missed.

Speaker 1 Four Pelicans players made a square, a perfect square, all sides equal

Speaker 1 around the ball. The ball bounced on the floor.
None of them got it. The Thunder got it and made a three.

Speaker 1 And Willie Green called the I'm so angry that 25 seconds into the quarter, I have to call a timeout, timeout. Just like wildly embarrassing stuff.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's like

Speaker 3 you watch some of these lineups with Zion

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 Kavan Looney's on the court with him. It just doesn't make any sense.
Derek Queen, I never watched him in college. All I have to go on is what he's done in the NBA so far.
It's like

Speaker 3 he's just all awkward at this point. I I don't really know how to sum up his game.

Speaker 1 It's too early. It's very early.
He's had some nice moments. It's too early, but like

Speaker 1 for the pick they gave up,

Speaker 1 which it's there are 76 games left in their season, but that pick is on track to be in the top three of the lottery or top four of the lottery in a draft where you start to hear like the top three are elite.

Speaker 1 Now I'm hearing 5-6, 4-5-6.

Speaker 1 Like, that's just an absolute, he has to be,

Speaker 1 he has to be at least doing what, like, Con Knipple is doing in the first 10 games to make you optimistic that somewhere down the line, that trade isn't going to be a disaster.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, the general effort that we just spoke about, the miscommunication constantly on defense, the fact that they have to play this zone, and the zone stinks.

Speaker 3 Sadiq Bey is disturbingly essential to this team.

Speaker 1 I don't really know. I like Sadiq Bey, but he should not be guarding Shea Gildris-Alexander as his primary assignment.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 3 So I have all these examples of Jordan Poole just failing on offense, failing on defense.

Speaker 3 You know, the miscommunication that we just mentioned, it's like there are plays where Trey Murphy will go over a screen and Zion will switch, and then Trey Murphy has no idea why Zion's switching.

Speaker 1 We don't even need to get into the tactics. It's just if you tried to play discombobulated defense, just every possible miscommunication you could imagine is happening in Pelicans games.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's bad. I don't really have any groundbreaking things to say about them then.
I mean, they're terrible.

Speaker 3 You would think that they would come out with a little more force and fire and intensity in that game against the Thunder on Sunday afternoon, and they just didn't. So

Speaker 3 I think what you said about Willie Green kind of being a dead man walking right now, it just feels like they don't want to play for him.

Speaker 3 And I know there have been some rumblings of Jordan Poole being unhappy because he's coming off the bench and he he hit this three in the game against the Clippers and kind of stared down Willie Green after it.

Speaker 3 It's just a total.

Speaker 1 He hit a three against the Thunder to cut the lead to 19, I think, in the third quarter and started talking trash to you.

Speaker 1 Or someone on the team. And I was like, okay, look, I know

Speaker 1 you got to find your bright spots.

Speaker 1 It's pretty dreary. I don't really mind you taking a little joy in this moment.
You are still down 19 to the number one defense in the NBA with like half of their team injured.

Speaker 1 And just, you know, maybe dial it back like a couple notches.

Speaker 3 I will say, though, Zach, I'm interested that you added the Pelicans to that list of John Morant trade teams.

Speaker 3 They did not come up when I was doing my exercise of trying to come up with as many fake trades that I thought were kind of semi-plausible as I could, just because you have Fears. And Fears is...

Speaker 3 He's not like a golden ticket, but he's something over here.

Speaker 1 So I don't know.

Speaker 1 It's just because

Speaker 1 Fears looks awesome

Speaker 1 based on where they picked him. It's only because

Speaker 1 there are a scenario where this front office is, we have to save this season so desperately that no matter how good Fears is right now, John Morant is just way better as a veteran point guard.

Speaker 1 That's the only, that's the main reason why.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I get that logic.

Speaker 3 It's just, I'm not, I'm like, I'm in a sinking boat, and if I trade for John Morant, it's like I'm dropping a bowling ball through the base of my boat and creating another hole.

Speaker 3 I'm not, I don't think that John Morant at this point would make the New Orleans Pelicans a significantly better basketball team.

Speaker 1 So I just, I don't know, I didn't really consider them for this, but maybe I could totally be off base and they're gonna be give me your favorite, give me your favorite, just give me your number one favorite fake John Morant trade.

Speaker 3 Can I say a team that, so I had one for Phoenix, I had one for the Bulls,

Speaker 3 I had one for the Raptors. I think that the one team you didn't mention that is a little tricky to actually make a trade, but you could do it, is the Minnesota Timberwolves.

Speaker 1 I was going to say, can I guess, and I guess it's Minnesota. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because their guard situation is so, is a little bit rickety right now. Now, Ant's injured.
We're going to talk about them later. So I won't belabor.

Speaker 1 I just, the salaries are so onerous and the restrictions are so onerous.

Speaker 3 It's tough. You would have to, I mean, and then it gets into the conversation of like, what am I giving up to make it worth Memphis' while?

Speaker 3 And then you would have to probably include someone like Jaden McDaniel.

Speaker 1 No, it's just a no, it's a tough trial. Exactly.
No. Exactly.

Speaker 3 So it's just, it's really tough. And I think that Ja's trade value,

Speaker 3 the fundamental reason why I don't think he'll get traded is he has no trade value at this point.

Speaker 1 He is.

Speaker 1 I don't disagree that his trade value is. It's obviously as low as it's ever been.
He has three years left on his contract, including this year. So it's not too long.

Speaker 1 39, 42, 45, was extension eligible, didn't get extended.

Speaker 1 Wasn't going to get extended right now on the Grizzlies Time table.

Speaker 3 Maybe that's playing into this pouting, too.

Speaker 1 One game of pouting. Don't want to read too much into it.

Speaker 1 You know, he's still good. Like, he's still a really good NBA player.

Speaker 1 And if you don't have any players on the perimeter as good as him, and you're desperate desperate to win and you're maybe not the most well-managed ownership group and or front office you could you could i i could talk myself into giving a little bit more than maybe what the consensus might be which is why i kept coming back to the kings but give me your favorite your favorite uh fake one

Speaker 3 all right i'll just say the bulls

Speaker 1 why how they're five and one they're the feel-good story of the nba there's no chance i love watching the bulls they're They're terrific.

Speaker 3 My fake trade, though,

Speaker 3 involves two guys who have not played really this season for the Chicago Bulls, and they are Kobe White and Zach Collins. And so you add about $9 million to this year's payroll.

Speaker 3 You stay under the tax. Obviously, you know, Chicago has a ton of cap space this summer that who knows what could happen there.

Speaker 3 And trading for Ja Morant doesn't kill all of it, I don't think, but it pretty much takes you out of the running in a lot of stuff.

Speaker 3 And I just think to your point that Ja

Speaker 1 is good.

Speaker 3 Ja, in a change of scenery where he's happy and he's motivated, could be a total force and the type of player that the Chicago Bulls have not had in quite some time. And

Speaker 3 he compliments, I think, or can compliment

Speaker 3 Madis Buzelis, who looks amazing and is

Speaker 1 one of the more bright spots that Chicago Bulls fans have had to root for in years.

Speaker 3 And if Josh Giddy keeps making threes, he hit a pull-up three in transition the other day. He's looking very frisky.

Speaker 3 I don't think that that is an atrocious fit either. So just throwing it out there from a talent asset accumulation standpoint.

Speaker 3 I love the Chicago Bulls. I love what they're doing.

Speaker 3 But if I only have to give up Kobe White, who I'm probably not going to resign anyway, and Zach Collins' expiring contract, I'm going to probably consider that and maybe do it.

Speaker 1 I hate it. I hate it.

Speaker 1 I want to apologize to Chicago fans who have not had anything to feel good about for a long time and are on cloud nine, despite a loss to the Knicks last night where I thought the Bulls still played pretty well.

Speaker 1 The Knicks just needed a million shots.

Speaker 1 I co-signed none of that. I endorse none of it.
This is my PSA on that trade.

Speaker 1 I just kept coming back to the Kings because obviously this team makes no sense and is not doing anything.

Speaker 1 They do have all their picks, I think, going forward.

Speaker 1 They have a lot of stuff.

Speaker 1 They have any number of large salaries that they could put in to make this work. Any number of combinations, whatever.

Speaker 1 Whether the Grizzlies want those players is up for debate.

Speaker 1 So just as an example of how I could see this discussion going, Zach Levine has two years left if you assume he's opting into his player option for next season. Ja has three.

Speaker 1 You could see the Kings saying, hey, we're actually kind of giving you some salary relief by giving you a guy who has one less year on his contract who's a pretty goddamn good NBA scorer.

Speaker 1 We don't think we should have to give you a ton of extras in just this theoretical discussion. Who knows what else is involved?

Speaker 1 But then you could see the Grizzlies saying, Well, hold on, John Boran's been a winner in the NBA. He's won a lot of regular season games.
He's not as many in the playoffs, but he's been injured.

Speaker 1 He's a winner. He's better than Zach Levine.
We want some of your draft assets because God only knows a King's draft asset is a piece of gold at all times in the NBA.

Speaker 1 And you could see a similar lower-level discussion on Deal Senator, on DeRosen, plus whatever. There's just a million ways you could do it.

Speaker 1 Why maybe the Kings don't do it is

Speaker 1 I do wonder if this front office, having not built this team,

Speaker 1 is actually, if this team ends up stinking and getting them in the derby for a top five pick, I wonder if this front office is like, this ain't our mess. Vivek, this is kind of your mess.

Speaker 1 this gives us a lot of runway if we sort of like sneaky tank this season, and and maybe ja, maybe like hurts our ability to sneaky tank because he's pretty good.

Speaker 1 Obviously, point guard is a weakness for them, perimeter playoverall is a weakness for them. It's just there's just a lot of like

Speaker 1 I could, it's almost too convenient for me to build king's trades with John Murray. Did they not even come up for you?

Speaker 3 They're the most obvious team, they're they're too obvious, it's like a hat on a hat, and it's also so depressing to imagine him on a team with Dennis Schroeder.

Speaker 3 And, I mean, you mentioned Zach Levine.

Speaker 1 I love Dennis Schruder. Dennis Schruder goes away.
We move Dennis Schruder somewhere else. I still have to watch this, Zach.

Speaker 3 I have to watch Russell Westbrook and John Moran and Dennis Schroeder. And Dario Sarich is on the team.

Speaker 3 I couldn't. I can't do that to myself.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 it's just the Kings are so...

Speaker 3 They're so sad.

Speaker 3 What direction are you going in if you train for John Moran?

Speaker 1 I've done enough verbal harm to the Kings, who won a great win in Milwaukee.

Speaker 1 That's just the one that I had. I don't.

Speaker 1 We'll see what happens. I have nothing else to say about any of these teams.
I can't talk about the Pelicans anymore. It's so bad.
I have my phone on alert, like,

Speaker 1 in case there's Pelicans news today.

Speaker 1 All right, one of the things I wanted to do was, you know, you get into the early part of the season, you start talking about the big stories, the Sixers, the Bulls, and, you know, who you've seen the most and whatever.

Speaker 1 There was a bunch of Western Conference teams I haven't hit.

Speaker 1 And I just like, let's just do rapid fire first impressions of some western conference teams you ready sure the los angeles lakers five and two a rousing weekend of wins against um the heat and the aforementioned memphis grizzlies uh five and two despite lebron playing no games and luca playing four number eight on offense number 17 on defense jake laravia looking every bit like the sweet shooting connector they hoped he would be jackson hays

Speaker 1 really has improved his passing out of the pick and roll almost overpasses sometimes i like to see him just go up and dunk a little bit.

Speaker 1 Ayton's been all right, Aitening around out there, about as all right as I thought he would be. And Reeves and Luca are just doing Reeves and Luca things.

Speaker 1 And shocking, shocking plot twists for the NBA world. Lakers are killing it in free throw differential.
Every year, the Lakers just threaten to set that record for free throw differential.

Speaker 1 I took the over on this team at 47 and a half with House and Bill. I was on an island all by myself.
They took the under.

Speaker 1 I don't quite know what the ceiling is yet. I want to see LeBron fit in, but these three dudes make a lot of sense offensively.

Speaker 1 They can hang around league average on defense, which they are right now. It's a dangerous team.
It's not a team I'd be psyched to play in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 The caveat being that Lucas already had an injury issue, and LeBron will be 41 years old in the playoffs, but I like this team. I think they're a good team.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I don't know how great they will be in a postseason

Speaker 3 for all the reasons that you just kind of listed, but I'm very high on what they can do in the regular season.

Speaker 3 And I was kind of down on them coming into the year just because of the supporting cast around Luca. I didn't necessarily think it was an ideal fit

Speaker 3 in certain ways. And I mean,

Speaker 1 Luca,

Speaker 3 he scored 165 points in his first four games. The only player who's ever scored more is Will Chamberlain in 1961 and 1962.
I don't know if Luca

Speaker 3 has,

Speaker 3 it's kind of hard to say this.

Speaker 3 I don't know if he's ever really looked better in terms of, you know, he had an off-shooting night last night against Miami, but just the efficiency, the way he's picking apart every single coverage, all the corner kicks, the lobs.

Speaker 3 He's kind of caring on defense.

Speaker 1 He looks noticeably nimbler in tight spaces on defense.

Speaker 3 Right. Some of the lineups he's doing this in are just miraculous.

Speaker 3 Like last night he was out there with Dalton Connect, Jared Vanderbilt, Loravia, and Bronnie James for a stretch, And Miami literally had to triple team him on one drive to the baseline.

Speaker 3 And he's still making plays. He's still getting to the rim.

Speaker 3 He just looks, I mean, he's played four games, but he's probably the MVP of the league right now.

Speaker 3 And he's also simultaneously like the secondary story in LA because Austin Reeves is looking like one of the best offensive players in basketball, which is

Speaker 1 noteworthy.

Speaker 3 And he looks like an ideal long-term fit next to Luca as kind of a

Speaker 3 secondary creator, someone who

Speaker 3 can stagger Luca. Your offense will be awesome.

Speaker 3 We're looking at very small sample sizes, but LA's offensive rating is 121 when Reeves is alone. It's 128 when the two are together, 123 when Luca is alone.

Speaker 3 So that right there is very promising. And if Austin Reeves can keep this up, if he can,

Speaker 3 you know, play create, if he can still get to the line at the rate that he's been doing, or just something even a little bit lower than that, and running offense such an efficient way.

Speaker 3 I really like the Lakers.

Speaker 3 I like Marcus Smart. Marcus Smart looks good.
Jake LaRavia looks amazing.

Speaker 3 On defense, they're switching on ton of screens. They played a ton of zone last night to try to slow down Miami's offense, and it kind of sort of,

Speaker 3 I don't want to say it worked, but it was okay.

Speaker 3 Minus J.J. Reddick calling that timeout to scream at Jackson Hayes.

Speaker 3 So, yeah, I'm actually more optimistic about the Lakers than I anticipated being, and

Speaker 3 we'll see how good the defense can be, and hopefully, DeAndre Ayton can come back from the back spasms and look fine, but they look good.

Speaker 1 They look really good.

Speaker 1 Austin Reeves,

Speaker 1 it's early to put him in the Brunson, Kyrie Irving tier of players. He needs to do this for a little bit longer, but he's been a very good offensive player now for several seasons.

Speaker 1 And every time that any team that has had Luca, aka Dallas, has paired Luca with that kind of ball handler, the results have been explosive and very hard to stop. I agree with you.

Speaker 1 They're a great long-term fit. It's the best thing that's happened to the Lakers this season is just clarifying, okay, that works.
That part of our team going forward works. The other stuff,

Speaker 1 LeBron,

Speaker 1 we got to figure out. But like, if I'm LeBron, I was maybe a little upset in the offseason, threw some passive-aggressive passive-aggressive bombs over the fence, you know, just made it known.

Speaker 1 A lot of rumblings: like, what comes next for LeBron next year? Is it going to be the Cleveland retirement tour? What's it going to be? If I'm watching this, I'm like, hey, this is kind of exciting.

Speaker 1 Now, just one little thing. They are shooting 62% on mid-range shots.
That's not going to sustain. And 70% at the rim.
That's not going to sustain. So we'll see what happens with their offense, but

Speaker 1 they should be a top 10 offense. And look, I'll say this about the Warriors,

Speaker 1 which we're not going to talk about. The Clippers, the Wolves,

Speaker 1 the Rockets, even,

Speaker 1 which we're not going to talk about. I did last week.

Speaker 1 The number one detriment to their title contention chances is just that the Thunder and the Nuggets, but especially the Thunder, are so goddamn good.

Speaker 1 If people aren't watching the Thunder because Jalen Williams is out and Shet is out, you got to tune into these guys because their level of connectivity on offense is just outrageous right now.

Speaker 1 The ball movement, the culture, the sharing of

Speaker 1 just everyone just making the right play at all times, the speed and zip with which they play, like teams just cannot keep up with their offense.

Speaker 1 And yes, they're still the number one defense in the league by far. They're 7-0, having not had their full complement of players for one second this season.
They're a little scary.

Speaker 1 And Denver will get to, I think, will be fine. In fact, why don't we just get to Denver right now? First impressions of the Denver Nuggets.
3-2, only five games.

Speaker 1 I'm just like third on offense, fourth on defense. I'm throwing out the defense stuff.

Speaker 1 I think they've gotten quite lucky with opponent jump shooting so far this season, and they've played mostly bad offensive teams other than the Warriors.

Speaker 1 I don't know, man. Like, Denver looks like Denver to me.
Jokic looks like Jokic to me. Jamal Murray, I've talked about

Speaker 1 off to the best start of his career in any season. And it looks like he's a you-know-it when you see it player.
He looks snappy. He looks snappy.
on his pit or pat dribble moves.

Speaker 1 He looks snappy on his like hesitation, fake, go this way, go that way, bob and weave game with Jokic. He just has like a speed and a zip to it that you know it when you see it.

Speaker 1 The bench is about better, like as advertised, like better, but maybe not that much better, but better enough.

Speaker 1 Playing a ton of zone defense, second most zone possessions in the league behind the Rockets. My number one question is,

Speaker 1 is Cam Johnson going to participate in this at any point in time? Because this was supposedly like a massive upgrade over Michael Porter Jr.

Speaker 1 And he's averaging eight points a game on 32% from three. He's only taking five threes per 36 minutes, which isn't enough.

Speaker 1 And the big upgrade was supposed to be what Cam Johnson could do off the dribble against closeouts.

Speaker 1 And I said when they made the trade, according to tracking data last year, Cam Johnson had like 11 or 12 drives per 100 possessions. Michael Porter Jr.

Speaker 1 had three and a half, and whoa, three and a half. It's an alarming number for a high minutes player who spends a lot of time on the perimeter.
Like, it's hard to drive that rarely.

Speaker 1 Cam Johnson so far this season, 3.7 drives per 100 possessions with the Denver Nuggets.

Speaker 1 I wonder if he's not, like, if there's a little bit of a health issue that's happening right now that may be contributing to this, but that's, that's my only thing I'm flagging.

Speaker 1 I love everything I'm seeing in Denver. I love Valentunis, Hardaway, Bruce Brown.
Everyone's, I'd like to see, we're getting a little,

Speaker 1 we're waiting for the next shipment of food into the Strother Straits. Like, we're starting to go a little hungry.
We need some water. But,

Speaker 1 but it's just Cam Johnson. I just want to see it.
That's all. Is that enough? Can I see something?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think that he has a shoulder thing,

Speaker 3 but they're awesome, despite having a negative point differential with the starting lineup. And as you said, Cam Johnson not really looking like the guy some thought he would.

Speaker 3 It's very, very, very early.

Speaker 3 They just have so many different bodies that they can play now and different lineup combinations that they couldn't last year, the year prior.

Speaker 3 You can play Aaron Gordon and Jamal Murray when Jokic is on the bench and not really sweat it.

Speaker 3 Jokic's numbers are kind of interesting to me.

Speaker 3 Just very, very early, small sample size stuff, leads the league in assists and rebounds, only averaging 20 points per game on the fewest shots since 2017, fewest touches since 2019.

Speaker 3 I think some of that is pace and Denver's transition frequency. You know, they're running.
They always play fast with Jokic. He always has the kick aheads, the touchdown passes.

Speaker 3 He's doing that at a rate that is.

Speaker 3 I mean, the whole league's playing fast right now, but he's doing that at a rate that's just, you know, cleaning the glass has it 99th percentile with all that stuff for him.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 1 he threw one against the Blazers

Speaker 1 over the weekend where he got a rebound under the rim. And like, it was, he was kind of being fouled.
Like, there was someone draped on him.

Speaker 1 And he just wound up and threw an 85-foot pass that hit somebody in stride for a layup.

Speaker 1 And it's like the Blazers announcers were just aghast that he even tried it, let alone executed it, knowing even that he throws passes like this three or four times a game. Even that one was

Speaker 1 it looked

Speaker 1 difficult for him to raise his arm over his head, and yet he still was ridiculous.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so I just think that

Speaker 3 he'll be better. You know, he hasn't shot the three-ball great.

Speaker 3 Cam Johnson will be better. Christian Brown is off to a slow start, and I think everyone had high expectations for him this season coming off the contract extension.

Speaker 3 I will say, just a fun little thing, defensively, you know,

Speaker 3 they've adopted

Speaker 3 the clapping that Jared Allen and the Cleveland Cavaliers would do whenever they got called for a defensive three-second violation.

Speaker 3 So I just jotted that away as potentially something, and then I looked at the numbers and saw that they're still absolutely atrocious defending the rim and the paint. So we'll see.

Speaker 1 No, they had one against Portland where everybody clapped, including Jokic, who it was called against.

Speaker 1 And it was when that happens, as it was with Jared Allen, although Jared Allen was kind of on an island clapping to himself and everyone else seemed a little like, what a dude, what are you doing?

Speaker 1 Clearly, this was a collective, we want to force the refs to call this because we're going to try our damnedest to just be in your way in the paint. It's not working so far, but, you know.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so I think the Nuggets are going to be very, very awesome and

Speaker 3 could have easily won that game against Portland. That was a really close ending.

Speaker 3 And Jamal Murray, to your point, he looked great down the stretch of that game, just hitting the difficult shots, creating space for himself.

Speaker 3 Yeah, he's 50, 40, 90, basically, 26 points per game. That's very good for him, especially at the start of a season.
So I'm still incredibly high in the nuggets.

Speaker 1 Bottom line is this.

Speaker 1 Nothing has changed my opinion that they are going to be the number two seed in the Western Conference and the biggest threat to the Oklahoma City Thunder in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 And I would really like Jamal Murray to make an all-star team so we can stop referring to him as the best player, not to make an all-star team and give that designation to somebody else because that would be fun.

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Speaker 1 okay uh next first impressions portland trailblazers four and two coming off that win over denver 13th on offense boy would they take that in a heartbeat if that was their rating for the whole season ninth on defense playing as advertised as a defense first nasty physical team.

Speaker 1 Only one team has fouled more on defense. No team has forced more turnovers.
So at least they're playing aggressive and getting the trade-offs where they should be.

Speaker 1 Donovan Klingen protecting the rim like you would hope he would do.

Speaker 1 They're playing lineups without any center because Jang Hansen has been banished to the end of the bench and Dwap Wreath is in and out. Those lineups, all wings, have been really good.

Speaker 1 Chris Murray coming off the bench has been a plus for them. Drew Holiday looks great.
Jeremy Grant looks great.

Speaker 1 Shaden Sharp looks okay.

Speaker 1 They are still the team team that can't shoot straight.

Speaker 1 Their shot selection is like a Daryl Maury shot selection. They take the seventh most threes, the fifth most shots at the rim, and no, and the least amount of mid-range shots.

Speaker 1 And they cannot shoot well from anywhere, which we knew was going to be the case.

Speaker 1 They still have Scoot,

Speaker 1 and they could use Scoot.

Speaker 1 Obviously, his shot creation, he's still like the kind of future point guard of the team, obviously. I think they're really fun to watch.
Kamara on defense is fun to watch.

Speaker 1 They're just a ferocious, fun team whose offense is going to limit their ceiling, but they're going to be in lots of games. They're going to be, I think I had the under on them at 34 and a half.

Speaker 1 Not giving up on that because I just think the West is so good and their offense is playing over its head at 13th. But if they keep mashing people on the glass and getting to the line a lot, like,

Speaker 1 I don't know. I mean, I guess.
I guess we'll see there. But I'll tell you this,

Speaker 1 that Drew Holiday trade, much criticized. I didn't really mind it because I didn't think Simons had trade value.

Speaker 1 I don't love the third year on Drew Holiday's contract that they took on, but that was a clear signal of we want to get an adult in the room.

Speaker 1 We want to go all in on a defense first culture, and we want to be super competitive, even if we don't end up making the playoffs or the play-in or whatever. We want to establish something here.

Speaker 1 And the early results are that they are indeed doing all of those things.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, you talk about establishing something. I love teams that have a clear identity, teams that know who they are.
They play the same way every night.

Speaker 3 I don't think any team in the league right now is more comfortable in its own skin from play to play more than the Blazers, which is incredible for obvious reasons we don't need to get into.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, no, we should at least mention that their coach was arrested and indicted on

Speaker 1 gambling charges, which he will fight. Kind of a big deal.

Speaker 3 But they're the fastest team in the league, averaging the fewest seconds per offensive possession. They're pressing teams on 28% of their possessions.

Speaker 3 According to Sport Radar, last year, the Pacers led the league at 12.7%.

Speaker 3 Blake Wesley, I'm not sure what the status of him is because he went down against the Nuggets, hurt his foot, but he's just like the captain of the Andrew Nemhard All-Stars, just harassing ball handlers up and down the court.

Speaker 1 He's got one job. His job is: I'm going to guard you 94 feet.
And I'm so he's longer than the typical player who does that, which means he can pick at your dribble a little bit more easily.

Speaker 1 He's a menace.

Speaker 1 He's a one-man press by himself.

Speaker 3 Love watching him.

Speaker 3 Tumani Kamara is in the, I know he's not shooting the ball very well. He's just in the conversation for most annoying, i.e., best perimeter defender in the league.

Speaker 3 The jump ball he forced against Jokic, which might have been a foul at the end of that game,

Speaker 3 was

Speaker 3 an amazing play.

Speaker 3 But right before that, he had this incredible weak side block to erase a Cam Johnson layup.

Speaker 3 He's just one of those guys who just gets under the opponent's skin. He creates turnovers.
He draws fouls.

Speaker 3 I love watching him. I wish he could shoot a little bit better.
That would be terrific.

Speaker 3 But I like when he's got a little bit of an inside, inside the arc game that kind of flashes here and there, and he's a really good cutter.

Speaker 3 so i just i love watching tumane kamara and it's like he's just such a find for the portland trailblazers um so he's been awesome he was awesome last year but he's been he's been terrific just watching him and i think the drew holiday uh

Speaker 3 i guess influence on everything is just evident i guess by their consistency as a whole and drews playing really well and yeah that's a thing in his pocket at half court i don't want to i don't want to just talk about drew like oh he's the culture guy like he's you don't Hasme.

Speaker 1 He's averaging 18 points a game on 48% shooting, 37% on a ton of threes, and defending his ass off, and 8.5 assists a game, which would obliterate his previous career high. Shaden Sharp,

Speaker 1 you know, I once interviewed Shaden Sharp for my most intriguing players column that never ran for reasons we won't discuss last year.

Speaker 1 And he joked with me in the interview about how, you know, man, when I, because I asked him about his, to that point, his three-point percentage was not good, and it's still not good.

Speaker 1 33% for his career, 27% so far this year. But if you split it between pull-up threes and catch-and-shoot threes, the catch and shoot numbers were like there was one season over 40%.

Speaker 1 There was evidence that something is in here as a shooter. And he joked with me.
He's like, Yeah, it's funny because when I was a teenager, when I was a kid, I couldn't shoot at all.

Speaker 1 Like, that was the book against me. He's like, I can't shoot.

Speaker 1 He's shooting 35% this year, 27% from threes.

Speaker 1 He's taking 17 shots a game. I would say I hate, on average, four of them.
Like the other 13 are fine.

Speaker 1 There are three or four that, like, you don't need to take the 19-foot pull-up with 18 on the shot clock or the three-point version of that.

Speaker 1 At some point, the dumbest analysis has to hold, which is like some of the other 14 shots just need to go in more or this whole thing falls away.

Speaker 1 So I just, I'm monitoring it, but I like, I like Portland. Okay, next team.
This is the, there's always one or two teams a week in, two weeks in, three weeks in.

Speaker 1 The, I have no idea what the fuck is going on with this team team. I have no idea what they are.
I have no idea how good they're going to be. I have no idea what kind of expectations to have for them.

Speaker 1 The Los Angeles Clippers are 16th in offense, 20th in defense. They have a negative point differential.
They have a massively negative point differential with both Kawhi and James Harden on the floor.

Speaker 1 Although Kawhi has been mostly Kawhi, and James Harden has been okay.

Speaker 1 They have a lot of guys. A couple guys who are hurt.
Bogdan Bogdanovich has been hurt. Got a lot of guys.

Speaker 1 They have Bradley Beal.

Speaker 1 So far, that hasn't really mattered very much.

Speaker 1 They've decided that they're going to start Bradley Beal anyway.

Speaker 1 They're going to bring John Collins off the bench. John Collins looks good.
Looks about what they expect. Pairs well with both Zubats and Brooke Lopez.
Have not seen him at center hardly at all.

Speaker 1 They are, I'm just going to just, here are some stats. They're last in pace.

Speaker 1 They are 28th in free throw rate.

Speaker 1 They are 27th in shots at the rim.

Speaker 1 And they are 23rd in defensive rebounding.

Speaker 1 No free throws, no rim shots, shaky rebounding.

Speaker 1 That dovetails with when I've watched them play, and obviously their first game, I threw you the trash right away. They got blown out at Utah like they thought the preseason was still going on

Speaker 1 there's something um

Speaker 1 soft is not the word i want to use because that's a bad connotation and certainly like a guy like kawaii is not soft and harden is not soft like the soft there's just something like squishy about their team like slow we knew they were going to be old and slow but it's been a little bit more than that to me i something just isn't

Speaker 1 Something isn't translating for me and I don't know what to make of the team But I looked at those stats that would equate with like physicality and aggression.

Speaker 1 I'm like, yeah, that kind of matches up. They're just,

Speaker 1 they just seem like they're playing at a slower year than a lot of other teams, and I don't quite know what to make of it because I like their players. I like their team.

Speaker 1 I took the over on them at 48 and a half, I think it was. I haven't, despite their record, I haven't been encouraged by what I've seen so far.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I don't know, but they're just such a weird collection of players. Super deep.
Like, should we play a bench mob? Should we stagger Kawhi and Harden?

Speaker 1 Yes, that's the can we play Jones and Dunn together, or have we gone all in on never doing that? Or are we going to sometimes do it? Should we even stick with this starting five?

Speaker 1 Should John Collins start like they're just, I don't, they're just like a

Speaker 1 mess of questions that are waiting to be answered.

Speaker 3 I don't know what

Speaker 3 I agree with a lot of what you're saying about just.

Speaker 1 And you are team, you are the Clippers guy. This is your team.
So I just talk me into it, I guess.

Speaker 3 Well, I the Bradley Beal thing in the starting lineup, it just doesn't, it doesn't, every time I'm watching that starting five, and Beale is on a minutes restriction now, and

Speaker 3 it's kind of perennially banged up, it seems, but it just

Speaker 3 doesn't fit for me when I watch them play. It looks very awkward.
It looks uncomfortable.

Speaker 3 Besides the fact that he can't make a shot, he's averaging six points a game or whatever it is, which is just kind of wild.

Speaker 3 I feel like like they need to tilt a little bit more towards last year's identity, which was

Speaker 3 aggressive defense,

Speaker 3 hard-nosed, hardened Zubot pick and rolls, and, you know, Norm Powell's never-ending microwave.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 like starting Chris Dunn for Beale just seems like, I don't know if that's going to answer a lot of

Speaker 3 the questions that you and others have and I have about the team through five or six games or whatever it is. But he's just someone who

Speaker 3 gives them an oomph, like gives them a level of physicality, gives them someone who can create opportunities off of the turnovers that he creates, someone who can blow up plays single-handedly on defense.

Speaker 3 I just think he needs to play more. Some of the numbers don't even back this up, to be honest with you.
Like

Speaker 3 that doesn't really bore out. But I would just like to see him start.

Speaker 3 I think he makes just more sense to, I mean, like, the starting five is allowing 131 points per 100 possessions, and yeah, a lot of that is because of that first game against Utah.

Speaker 3 But just when you watch them play, it's just not, they're not connected, they're not in the ball, and I feel like Chris Dunn is someone who just sets the tone for them defensively and can help kind of tilt the identity that they had last year back into this season.

Speaker 3 So that's kind of something I've been thinking about when I think about the Clutters.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't, I don't, they don't want to play Dunn and Jones together. That was the clear sort of

Speaker 1 decision that they made. It's just too little shooting on the floor.
Two guys you can help off of.

Speaker 1 They've dabbled in it already, not starting them, but playing them a little bit together. I like the way Collins looks for them.

Speaker 1 I get that he and Zoo is not as clean a fit offensively as he and excuse me, he and Lopez, but I think it's a good enough fit.

Speaker 1 And it's interesting they're using him both as a spacer and a roller with both guys.

Speaker 1 They're just so blah. Like, it's just so blah.

Speaker 1 And Kawhi is averaging 24 on 50-40-90 shooting and has these bursts of defense when either the game is on the line or he senses an opportunity to make a player. Like, oh, oh, that's still there? Okay.

Speaker 1 Like, that's super encouraging. The Beal thing is weird because it does feel like it's a, all right, we got to do the Bradley play now.
Like, we've done all the other stuff.

Speaker 1 And we, you know, he's Bradley Beal. He's been an all-star a bunch of times, all NBA.
Okay, come off the pin down from the left corner. We'll do your thing now.

Speaker 1 And it's just, it feels like perfunctory. Like, just get this out of the way so we can go back to playing how we want to play the next few possessions.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 I mean, again, this is a good team. They're deep.

Speaker 1 Chris Paul sometimes plays eight minutes a game. I'm like, it just turns out to be kind of a lot of noise for a guy who's 40.
You know, it's what happens. And, and

Speaker 1 you might watch them and say they're more meant for the playoffs, the slow, the ISO ball, and all that. Then you remember that they haven't been enormously successful in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 And again, they're just the top two or three teams in the West are going to be so good

Speaker 1 that it's, I don't know. But they are my, like, I want to watch them a bunch in the next couple of weeks because I can't figure out what they are.

Speaker 3 Yeah, totally fair.

Speaker 3 Kawhi looking this good and not missing any time is a positive, I would say. And,

Speaker 3 you know, still getting to his spot, still creating the space, still,

Speaker 3 you know, being an ace from the mid-range,

Speaker 3 really not getting to the rim at all.

Speaker 3 Not really getting to the free throw line that much, which is kind of indicative of the entire team's issue offensively.

Speaker 3 But yeah, it's just, there's a lot unanswered right now. There's a lot of new pieces.
There's a lot of Tylu has so many options right now, and he's just trying to figure things out, obviously.

Speaker 3 So, yeah, just I like John Collins too. I like what I've seen from John Collins, who was my pick for six man of the year.

Speaker 3 And yeah, we'll see how this team goes. I'm honestly like a little

Speaker 3 rarely discouraged by the Clippers.

Speaker 3 And I've kind of, I'm feeling a little,

Speaker 3 not down, but not as high as I was coming into the season, to be honest with you.

Speaker 1 I think that's the appropriate reaction after whatever of many games I just said.

Speaker 1 They just look a little bit blah.

Speaker 1 Okay, last team, first impression, Minnesota Timberwolves, three and three.

Speaker 1 Anthony Edwards has only played in three of those games. 14th in offense.
An alarm bell 23rd in defense.

Speaker 1 Fouling a lot.

Speaker 1 Rebounding so-so.

Speaker 1 And you always,

Speaker 1 just because this is always how it is,

Speaker 1 You always want to look at the big fella. I don't know if it's that he's just a little awkward the way he moves.
And I've watched the Turbos a bunch.

Speaker 1 And he doesn't look the same to me physically.

Speaker 1 He's certainly like

Speaker 1 uninvolved to an alarming degree on offense. His usage rate has fallen into the PJ Tucker zone of like, are you doing like you're supposed to get a few dunks a game? And that's barely happening.

Speaker 1 The rolls to the rim don't look as ferocious.

Speaker 1 His second leap doesn't look as fast or as high on defense.

Speaker 1 And yet, with Rudy Gobert on the court, they're allowing 107 points per 100 possessions. That would be number two in the league.

Speaker 1 With Rudy Gobert off the court, they're allowing 135 points per 100 possessions. And opponents are shooting 45% at the rim against Gobert, which is a Wembanyama level/slash Gobert level number.

Speaker 1 Now, I flagged this last week. He's only challenging 4.5 shots per game at the rim.
He's usually in like the 7 to 8 range. I don't quite know why that is,

Speaker 1 but he, despite all those stats I just read, that the defense is like way better with Rudy Gobert on the floor, some of that is that it's been so atrociously bad with Nas Reed and Julius Randle at the four and the five.

Speaker 1 I just, the eye test

Speaker 1 isn't there with me. And obviously, Ant is hurt.
They're trying to figure out the Conley DiVincenzo. Like, is DiVincenzo really our starting quote-unquote point guard?

Speaker 1 Like, we're just going all in on that.

Speaker 1 And he's just running around like a madman, taking a million threes. They're running a ton of offense through him, and he's been fine at that.

Speaker 1 You know, you brought them up as a theoretical Morant team earlier. I have said before that

Speaker 1 I do wonder if there's a trade to be made here to upgrade the backcourt rotation at some point. They've tried bones.
The bones experience is what it is.

Speaker 1 They finally gave Dillingham some extended run against Charlotte. over the weekend.
We saw the good and bad of Dillingham, and we can talk about that.

Speaker 1 Again, it's hard to judge anything without Ant, and maybe it's good that they're 3-3 having Ant missed half the games.

Speaker 1 Randall's been sensational, sensational, offensively, okay, defensively, sensational offensively.

Speaker 1 I don't feel as good about this team as I did two weeks ago.

Speaker 3 This is my

Speaker 3 just, I don't know what I'm watching team.

Speaker 3 I have no idea what to make of them, especially with Anthony Edwards being out, the defense being so bad.

Speaker 3 And I wonder if it's just, you know, if you look at the individual games, it's like they had one game against Luka Donczich where he scored a million points.

Speaker 3 They had one game against Austin Reeves where he scored a million points. They had one game against Nikola Jokic and the Denver Nuggets and they got run off the floor.

Speaker 3 Is that just, you know, five or six games of going up against some of the best offense?

Speaker 3 firepower in the league and it's just that's how the cookie crumbles but then you know i'm watching the hornets game which Hornets are also like a pretty fun offense.

Speaker 3 And there's just like one play where Miles Bridges just blows by Julius Randle, and Gobert is in position, and he just doesn't really do anything at the rim to stop Bridges from finishing.

Speaker 3 And that was kind of what is happening here. Little possession that kind of stuck out in my head.

Speaker 3 But yeah, like with Ant being out and really no point guard to speak of, I mean, I think that that does not help Rudy Gobert offensively.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 when Julius Randard is on the bench, their offense completely falls apart. They can't generate enough threes right now.
This is usually like a high-volume three-point shooting team.

Speaker 3 That's really not happening.

Speaker 3 Mike Conley is clearly transitioning into a different part of his career. Rob Dillingham, it's really,

Speaker 3 I don't know what it is. It's kind of concerning that this person who you traded,

Speaker 3 you kind of foresaw Conley being on the downturn and then you traded for Rob Dillingham and he can't really enter your rotation until it's like a breaking case of emergency situation.

Speaker 3 And he's kind of whatever. I don't really know what to make of Rob Dillingham at this point.
I don't think he's like the point guard of the future, but maybe he is. I don't know.

Speaker 3 So it's just a really confusing team for me. And I was not super high coming in to this season about the Minnesota Timberwolves.
And, you know, I do love Ant. I do think Randall has played well.

Speaker 3 I think Nasreed will will shoot the ball better.

Speaker 3 But yeah, this is just a mystery box team for me right now.

Speaker 1 I mean, the infrastructure is really, really strong, right? That was the reason to be high on them coming into the season as I was. I took the over at 49.5.

Speaker 1 Not that I bet on any of these things.

Speaker 1 My money stays with me.

Speaker 1 I mean, two straight Western Conference finals. Gobert has always been a defensive infrastructure undo himself.

Speaker 1 And you have Ant. And, like, two straight Western Conference finals.
And our biggest worry is we lost Nikil Alexander Walker. Love Nikhil Alexander Walker.
Like, that shouldn't be devastation.

Speaker 1 The team is in a tough spot with Dillingham because I just don't think he's going to get in a rhythm unless he plays.

Speaker 1 And the coaching staff understands that there is no margin for, okay, let this guy go through his growing pains in the Western Conference because you do that with two guys in your rotation and you're ninth or eighth or seventh and you're fighting for your life just to get into the playoffs.

Speaker 1 I thought that game against Charlotte was instructive. Dillingham gets in the game.
You know, he's got speed. He's got craft.
He runs a pick and roll with Randall.

Speaker 1 I think Bridges was guarding Randall. Bridges does not help off Randall at all.

Speaker 1 Dillingham has a lane to the basket, inexplicably picks up his dribble at the foul line with no one in front of him, and hurls this no-chance in hell lollipop back to Randall like a panicked, why am I even doing this?

Speaker 1 Past that gets intercepted and goes the other way. And then a quarter later, he has this like pick and roll in and out dribble, right-handed sweeping hook off the glass.

Speaker 1 And in between, he's getting bullied on defense constantly, which is just going to be life for him. And they have the infrastructure to protect him.
But

Speaker 1 he's a young guard who hasn't played a lot on a good team with some interesting player archetypes around him. Like Julius Randles

Speaker 1 takes some getting used to. Gobert takes some getting used to.
Ants and alpha of the first order. He's going to be skittish.
He's going to make mistakes.

Speaker 1 He's going to be a little uncertain of how much freedom he has to create for himself. He's going to throw some bizarro passes.
He's going to panic a little bit.

Speaker 1 And then he's going to do stuff that is encouraging to you. I think they just need to let him play.
But that's easy for me to say because

Speaker 1 if the alternative is you don't let him play enough and he's just not in the rotation when you get to crunch time in the playoffs and you haven't traded for anybody else, you're just going to be a guy short.

Speaker 1 And I say that, I say that as I think Shannon Jr. is going to be fine for what he is in their rotation.
I think Jalen Clark is going to be fine for what he is in their rotation.

Speaker 1 Great defender, has some juice cutting off the ball. Is he going to make enough threes? We'll see.

Speaker 1 I like, I don't know. I just want to see Dillian play.
Easy for me to say. The rest of the team, I'm waiting until Ant comes back

Speaker 1 to make any real

Speaker 1 conclusions.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I agree with all of that.

Speaker 3 I will just say playing Bones Highland over Rob Dillingham. Interesting.

Speaker 3 Just an interesting little, that's an interesting decision, knowing who Bones Highland is and needing Rob Dillingham more so as someone who's more important to your franchise.

Speaker 1 Yeah, look,

Speaker 1 Bones, one of those players, you can tell when he's going to shoot.

Speaker 1 When it's Bones time, you can tell it's Bones time. When the ball crosses half quarter, you're like, okay, this one's going up.

Speaker 1 That's just how it is.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Those conclude our first impressions. We should get through a little bit of news.

Speaker 1 Here we go. I lost my news notes.
Now I got them. Dylan Harper left the Spurs game last night with some sort of calf injury.

Speaker 1 He's in a walking boot, apparently. Knock on wood.
Spurs finally lost their 5-1.

Speaker 1 The Harper-Wembinyama pick and roll combination was one of the more exciting storylines of the first two weeks of the season. They're already without Fox, Sohan, Olinik, et cetera.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they got a lot of guards. Castle has been awesome.

Speaker 1 Just, you know, Dylan Harper's good. He's good right now.
He's helping their team win right now. He's a good defender already.
Let's just knock on wood. Nothing bad happens.

Speaker 1 And the big one, I talked about this late last week before the news news had come out because we didn't get a timetable.

Speaker 1 But it looked like it was going to be, I said, you know, like, look, if it's an MCL span and it's 20 games, Trey Young's out for four weeks.

Speaker 1 They are, Atlanta so far is two and one in the non-Trey Young games, including the one where he got injured against Brooklyn, lost to Cleveland last night, beat somebody bad the two days before, I don't remember who.

Speaker 3 Pacers.

Speaker 1 Pacers. Oh, God.
I mean, what can you say about the Pacers? Everybody's injured. When everyone gets injured, you tend not to win.

Speaker 1 And I said this Friday, Thursday, whatever day.

Speaker 1 This could be the defining moment for the Trey Young Atlanta Hawks experience.

Speaker 1 If the Hawks discover life without Trey is livable, yeah, we're going to take a hit on offense.

Speaker 1 All the numbers for all the years suggest that the hit is going to be big.

Speaker 1 We're going to get less threes. We're going to turn the ball over more.
We don't have the guy who is the entire engine of this machine.

Speaker 1 If the offensive hit doesn't turn out to be as bad as they think it is, because they have Alexander Walker, because they have Kennard, because they have Dyson Daniels, who kind of come to life for the last two or three games, because they now have a shooting center and poor Zingis, because Jalen Johnson's ready to make a leap, because Risa Shea, can you get going, please?

Speaker 1 It's been a very slow start.

Speaker 1 And if the offense goes down a little and the defense goes up a lot, I think that's a pretty interesting data point in the Trey Young extension non-discussions/slash could always be revive discussions.

Speaker 1 Similarly, if the hit is really bad and the team struggles mightily,

Speaker 1 that perhaps changes those calculations as well. You and I have been optimists about Trey Young's fit with this team long term.
I was optimistic about the team going into the season. They are 3-4.

Speaker 1 Depth was always going to be their challenge. And the thing with one injury is

Speaker 1 it removes your margin for us another one. Like if somebody else gets hurt, you're now at critical depth levels for the Hawks.
I'm just fascinated to see how this goes.

Speaker 1 Their next 10 games are Orlando, Orlando, Toronto, Lakers at home. So an Eastern Conference team that's a peer of theirs in Orlando and one would-be peer in Toronto.

Speaker 1 At Clippers, at Kings, at Utah, at Phoenix, Detroit at home, another peer team, at San Antonio, at New Orleans. And then he'll be out for a little bit longer than that.

Speaker 1 I think they're probably going to be okay without him over 15, 20 games. I would probably expect like a 500 record.
That's just how teams tend to play.

Speaker 1 Like before the season, talking to people about Milwaukee, the pessimists were always like, well, if Giannis goes out, you know, say he misses 15 games, he'll be 0-15.

Speaker 1 And I was like, that's just not like teams just find ways to win these games. And sure enough, Giannis misses a game and they win the other night against the Warriors.
That doesn't mean they can go.

Speaker 1 12-3. It's probably going to be like 5-10 or 6-9.
Not a complete disaster. I'm betting on like a 500-ish record without Trey, but I'm curious and I don't know what what really to expect.

Speaker 3 That seems fair and realistic. I'm curious to see just how

Speaker 3 they function around him defensively. I want to see Jalen Johnson assume even more offensive responsibility, playmaking duties.

Speaker 3 He's one of my favorite players to watch in the league.

Speaker 3 Just watching this Atlanta Hawks team, I assume that they'll try to play faster without Trey.

Speaker 3 I assume that, yeah, their defense will probably be significantly better when you put Nikael Alexander Walker in your starting lineup for Trey Young. That seems like a no-brainer.

Speaker 3 And I want to see, like you mentioned, Reese has been pretty disappointing so far this season after having some really

Speaker 3 encouraging moments during the preseason. I want to see him kind of get going a little bit.

Speaker 3 So, yeah, this is, I don't think that this is a death knell for the Atlanta Hawks. I think that they can totally recover and,

Speaker 3 you know, tread water in an Eastern conference that isn't blowing anybody's doors off.

Speaker 3 But yeah,

Speaker 3 it's a kind of a pseudo-referendum on just the identity of this team with Trey Young, and we'll see how they perform and how it impacts his long-term tenure with the organization.

Speaker 1 It definitely, you know, I had them fourth, I think, in the East and one of my top six.

Speaker 1 Whatever your chances, whatever you or Vegas had them or I had them as like X percent chance to be in the top six, whether it was 70%, whatever, that now takes a hit by minimum 10 to 15 percentage points.

Speaker 1 And that's good news for the Bulls, the Sixers, the Heat, the Pistons, the Bucs, the Raptors, etc.

Speaker 1 Okay, we got to conclude. I haven't done Mets Corner in quite a long time.
The Mets were eliminated before the playoffs. This is not going to be Mets Corner.

Speaker 1 Mets Corner will resume when it's appropriate for Mets Corner to resume. This is just going to be a baseball segment for five minutes.
That game on Saturday night,

Speaker 1 that's a top 10 game of sports I've ever seen. Game seven of Dodgers, Blue Jays.

Speaker 1 I woke up the next morning and I showed, my daughter's become a big baseball fan. She was very curious who won.
She picked the Dodgers in seven. She was correct.
I picked Dodgers in five. I was wrong.

Speaker 1 My wife picked the Blue Jays in anything because she wanted Toronto to win.

Speaker 1 And I showed her all the highlights from the ninth inning and beyond in the game. And it took like 35 minutes because

Speaker 1 I was like, you have to appreciate this forced play at home. This second baseman I never heard of until that moment stumbled and throws this dude out at home by a millisecond.

Speaker 1 And then, oh my God, I forgot that the very next at-bat is the flyball to left field where the dudes collide and you think the Toronto Blue Jays have just won the World Series and then they haven't won the World Series.

Speaker 1 And there is nothing

Speaker 1 like a visiting team

Speaker 1 clutch, gut punch, home run in a World Series game like that, where the whole stadium goes silent to the point that you can hear the screaming from the player himself and from the dugout.

Speaker 1 And the Dodgers got two of those

Speaker 1 from Rojas and

Speaker 1 Will Smith, who went just,

Speaker 1 I mean, he was calm. I would have lost my mind if I'd hit that home run.

Speaker 1 And I just was thinking, A,

Speaker 1 I don't think it's a coincidence that I got back into baseball and baseball seemed to have

Speaker 1 this moment of like, are young people liking baseball now? Because I went back, I was trying to think, and I challenge you to do this too.

Speaker 1 Neutral observer, what is the most intense sports spectating experience you've ever had? Because this was up there.

Speaker 1 And I was going through other baseball games that were up there, and I thought about Indians,

Speaker 1 back then, Indians, Marlins, the Edgar Enteria, Game 7. I thought about Yankees, Diamondbacks, the Luis Gonzalez game 7.
I wasn't exactly neutral in that one.

Speaker 1 Mets, Red Sox, 86. Then I thought of games six, games five and six of Red Sox, Yankees, 2004, the 0-4,

Speaker 1 the comeback from 3-0.

Speaker 1 And I had remembered game six. I remembered Keith Folk's save in game six being

Speaker 1 very, very nerve-wracking in a 4-2. It was the bloody sock game.

Speaker 1 And I went back and watched the ninth inning. Holy shit.
It took forever. Like forever.

Speaker 1 And it just, when you watch those old games, it really hammers home home to you. They saved baseball with these speed-up-the-game changes.
I mean, the whole sport has been saved by these changes.

Speaker 1 I can't believe it took so long. I was like, I can't watch.
This is like a 40-minute YouTube clip of three outs of baseball. Why is Tony Clark stepping out for 45 seconds? He's going to eat.

Speaker 1 How is this ever allowed? Anyway, I have my list. Do you have any games that come to mind for you?

Speaker 3 I do. I will say it is

Speaker 3 hard for me.

Speaker 3 I realized in doing this exercise that I almost always have a rooting interest like I equate rooting interest with super intense viewing experience so I mean you're talking about like the Red Sox in 04 like just I mean yeah that's I passed out multiple times watching that series

Speaker 3 One game that kind of popped into my head I do because I vividly remember watching it in middle school was Super Bowl 34 in 2000 between

Speaker 3 the Rams and the Titans when Kenny Dyson that's the tackle game right yes yes the tackle Mike Jones tackling Kenny Dyson at the one yard line and I just remember you know I'm I'm like 11 I don't even know how old I am

Speaker 3 12 like it was traumatizing like I remember going to middle school like going to school the next day and just wondering like wait so tonight can they play again like this just didn't seem fair that this dude came up one yard shy of like immortality, and just imagining being an actual Titans fan and what that would do to me.

Speaker 3 Because I, you know, a Patriots fan growing up and still am, and like losing the Super Bowl in 96 with like to the Brett Far Green Bay Packers, that was like a blowout and was still like in my psyche as just incredibly painful.

Speaker 3 And to lose like that, I just couldn't fathom it. So that was like a very, very intense, um,

Speaker 3 just like a neutral observer watching it, feeling so bad for the losing team. And that's what I felt for the Blue Jays.

Speaker 3 Like, first and third, losing on a double play, the way they, like, there's so many things that you could say about that game seven, but that is just like, I just felt so, it's like they're talking, that's like, I don't even know.

Speaker 3 On the scale of gut punches, that's like the biggest gut punch loss I think I've ever witnessed, I will say.

Speaker 1 It's up there. I mean, I named a couple other gut punches before.
My dad would certainly tell you as a lifelong Red Sox fan that game six in 1986 is untoppable for him.

Speaker 1 For me, it was a moment of glee as a Mets fan. It's his fault I'm a Mets fan, so he deserves it.

Speaker 1 You can't lose more painfully than that

Speaker 1 to be two outs away,

Speaker 1 even after blowing that, to have multiple attempts to win the game with runners on third and scoring position, et cetera, at home to a crowd that's just desperate. I mean, I go to Toronto a lot.

Speaker 1 Their fans are great for every team.

Speaker 1 They're all so scarred by the Maple Leafs and how the Maple Leafs haven't won in forever that they take that scar tissue and project it,

Speaker 1 their hunger for success onto every other team that sniffs it. And so that's why the Blue Jays suddenly become this just rabid fan base.
Anyway,

Speaker 1 just the ones that came to mind for me, I've got some deep cuts.

Speaker 1 You met like football, hockey, I just don't care enough about. So they're just out for me.
I'm sure there's like an insane seven-overtime Stanley Cup finals game that I just don't know about.

Speaker 1 I just don't care enough about hockey. Football, same thing.
Didn't the Pats have one that came down to the one-yard line that they won? Like an interception.

Speaker 1 Someone got an interception at the end of a game? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 Against the Seahawks,

Speaker 3 Malcolm Butler could have run it, but they had Marshawn Lynch. They decided to pass.
Malcolm Butler intercepts with the one-yard line. It's just, it's legendary stuff.

Speaker 1 So just football and hockey fans, understand. I like watching your sports as background television now and then.
I just don't ever care enough about anything, about the sport itself,

Speaker 1 for this to be in play.

Speaker 1 It's hard to say neutral because I was at the game for work, but Cabs Warriors game seven. in 2016 is the most intense sporting experience I've ever had.

Speaker 1 And I've talked about it a lot, those four straight minutes where the game did not stop and you just wanted it to stop for a minute to exhale because the tension was so thick, the 73 wins, LeBron on the road, the whole thing.

Speaker 1 I think the greatest game I've ever seen is still Duke, Kentucky from 1992, I think, in the NCA tournament, the Leitner buzzer shot game.

Speaker 1 But that was an Elite Eight game, and the stakes were obviously very high, but that is, I still think, the greatest game of any sport that I've ever seen. It wasn't at the game.

Speaker 1 That was watching on television.

Speaker 3 I had 2016 Game 7 on my short list here. I mean, that's like just, you're holding your breath.
You can feel your heart.

Speaker 1 I could feel your reaction.

Speaker 1 I could feel my body temperature rising to like 102 degrees.

Speaker 1 Similarly,

Speaker 1 I mean, I'd like to go re-watch this because in my head, the final of the 2022 World Cup between Argentina and France was absolutely just bonkers insane for like the last 40 minutes of the game.

Speaker 1 Scoring chances by Mbappe and Messi, it goes to penalty kick. I just remember being like, I can't even imagine being from one of these countries or caring about who wins this game.

Speaker 1 It's so crazy the entire time.

Speaker 1 To that point, a disqualifier for me, because I had a rooting interest, was both Croatia, England in the 2018 World Cup semifinals, which went to extra time, Croatia came back and won, and Croatia-Brazil quarterfinals 2022, which Croatia wins in penalty kicks.

Speaker 1 I think I might have needed to

Speaker 1 go to the hospital after that game. Like, I fell on the floor, and I felt my body cease to function.

Speaker 1 When Brazil's last penalty kick hit the post and the game was over, I had a moment where I was like, I think I might be dying,

Speaker 1 but I had a rooting interest.

Speaker 1 Underrated one? Can I give you an underrated one? Absolutely. This is only because

Speaker 1 I want people to go back and research this.

Speaker 1 My best friend in college is from the Czech Republic, and I was in college in the late 90s. 1998 Olympics in Nagano, Japan.
It might have been one of the first ones where all the NHL guys could play.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 we would stay up at 3 in the morning watching the Czech Republic hockey games, rooting for them, for our friend to be happy. And their team, in my head, I'm sure they had more good players than this.

Speaker 1 It was Jager and Hashik and a bunch of dudes I never heard of. And they end up winning the gold medal.

Speaker 1 And their game against Canada, which I think is either the semifinals or the finals, goes to a shootout.

Speaker 1 And I swear to God, with no hyperbole, what Dominic Hashick did in that Olympic tournament is one of the greatest things I've ever seen in sports.

Speaker 1 They faced this shootout of the, and Canada has everyone, like Lynn Dross, everyone you could imagine. And I believe he stopped every single shot in the shootout.

Speaker 1 And it was so intense and crazy that I'd actually like to go back and re-watch it. So those are my

Speaker 1 other nominees. But that baseball game, holy cow, what else you got?

Speaker 3 I got a couple NBA ones.

Speaker 3 2013 game six, obviously, Heat Spurs. And game seven, by the way.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. Game seven.
Super underrated game.

Speaker 3 So underrated. The Tim Duncan.
I think about this sometimes. Tim Duncan missing that bunny and then slapping the floor.
Like, I just, my heart broke.

Speaker 1 It was just...

Speaker 3 Man, it's just, I can't even.

Speaker 3 You just felt so bad for the guy. I mean, he already had five rings or whatever, but like, he's four rings at that time.
But just,

Speaker 3 man,

Speaker 1 that game was so good.

Speaker 3 Great series, too.

Speaker 3 This is admitted recency bias and probably doesn't pass the test of qualifying and won't go down in history at all, like all these other ones, especially.

Speaker 3 I wasn't expecting a Dominic Kaushik reference, so that was that made my day. Thank you for that.

Speaker 1 It's everything about it: it's college, dorm room, television, not dorm room, like dorm common area, television, three in the morning, only three or four insane sports fans watching this,

Speaker 1 no smartphones, just dudes watching television.

Speaker 3 So, this, yeah, so not as cool as that, but I was at game four of this year's finals.

Speaker 3 And I bring that up because, you know, seeing it live, obviously, it just felt like I was witnessing and sitting on press row

Speaker 3 people on press row, even as that game was kind of going on and people were kind of getting the feeling that the Indiana Pacers were actually going to win this game and go up 3-1 and become the most improbable, one went away from becoming the most improbable champion any of us have ever seen in one of the great massive upsets in NBA history and just being there for that.

Speaker 3 Like people on press row were kind of like

Speaker 3 exasperated and sure and like emoting, which are obviously, you know, not supposed to do or whatever.

Speaker 3 But like the pressure in that building, SGA having four points at halftime, Benedict Matherin missing those three huge free throws of 44 seconds left. I think about that game.

Speaker 3 I know it's like, it's totally overshadowed because of what ended up happening as that series went on.

Speaker 3 But that game and that crunch time, like the shots SGA hit down the stretch, it's just like all-time stuff. And I think that we should shine a light on that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I didn't look too hard at other NBA games

Speaker 1 just because this is an NBA podcast. I wanted to look at other sports.

Speaker 1 It has to be at a game where, like a finals elimination game, to really reach this level of excruciating tensions.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 you could go back into like 88 Pistons Lakers, Phantom Foul. There's a million other good games.
But anyway, that's my big takeaway is baseball's back and baseball rules.

Speaker 1 And I might just have to start a baseball podcast because that was so much goddamn fun. All right, Michael Pina, thanks for bouncing around some fake trades, some first impressions.

Speaker 1 What do you got this week with you?

Speaker 3 I have a piece coming out tomorrow on Paolo Bancaro.

Speaker 3 I was excited to watch a lot of Paolo's season so far and think about Paolo as a franchise player and what his developmental track can still be. And

Speaker 3 that's the piece I wrote.

Speaker 1 All right. Buckle up, Magic fans.
Michael Pina, thank you, sir. Thank you, Zach.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 That's it for the Zach Low Show today.

Speaker 1 I'm a little amped up just talking about game seven of the World Series. I'm still like, I have residual nerves, even though I didn't care who won the game.

Speaker 1 Thank you to Jesse, Jonathan, and Mike on production. Thanks to Chris Verno, Chris Verno Vernon for popping on and talking Grizz.
Thanks to Michael Pina for talking all things NBA.

Speaker 1 Thanks to you for listening or watching or both the Zach Lowe Show. We will see you later this week for our second episode of the week.
Who knows what will happen between now and then?

Speaker 1 Thanks, everybody, for listening.

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