And, This is Secretary Leon Panetta

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Speaker 5 This is Gavin Newsom, and this is Secretary Leon Panetto.

Speaker 5 Ms. Secretary, thanks for taking the time to be with us.
And as a fellow Californian, it seems appropriate that I start here. We have so many topics to discuss, obviously, many issues going on

Speaker 5 that are radically evolving in real time overseas.

Speaker 5 But one thing that continues to evolve in a very remarkable and meaningful way here in our own state of California in Los Angeles is the deployment of close to 5,000 military personnel.

Speaker 5 In fact, last count was 4,946

Speaker 5 formerly National Guard, now federalized and active duty U.S. Marines that have been deployed to the streets of Los Angeles.
But Mr.

Speaker 5 Secretary, what's remarkable to me, and this is where I want to begin with you, is only a very small percentage have been mission tasked.

Speaker 5 The rest, quite literally, are sitting around waiting for assignments. Thousands and thousands.

Speaker 5 of former National Guard men and women that were working to do

Speaker 5 drug interdiction, working on the border on behalf of the state, including many of them working for other state agencies in law enforcement, have been federalized.

Speaker 5 And I'm curious, your thoughts about what you've seen in Los Angeles, your own reflection as a former Secretary of Defense, former chief of staff.

Speaker 5 Did you ever imagine thousands and thousands of men and women being federalized against the wills of a governor of a home state?

Speaker 10 No, first of all, thank you having me as part of your

Speaker 10 podcast here. It's good to be with you, Gavin.

Speaker 10 Look,

Speaker 10 I have

Speaker 10 a very different approach here. As a

Speaker 10 former member of Congress, former director of the CIA, and former Secretary of Defense,

Speaker 10 I think it's very important for this country to respect the role of the military.

Speaker 10 And the role of the military is basically to defend this country from foreign adversaries.

Speaker 10 And throughout our history, we've been very clear that

Speaker 10 the role of the military ought not to be used

Speaker 10 for law enforcement purposes.

Speaker 10 And I believe in that because, frankly, we need the military to protect our national security. The president just used our military to conduct an attack in Iran.

Speaker 10 That's what the military is about. That's what they're trained to do.

Speaker 10 And we have to respect that role.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 if we do anything to politicize the role of the military, it basically weakens our national security and weakens our national defense.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 I think that

Speaker 10 there are some real concerns about the

Speaker 10 politicalization of

Speaker 10 our military and particularly the activation of our National Guard here in California. It raises real concerns about whether or not politics are being played.

Speaker 10 I really do believe that

Speaker 10 this country

Speaker 10 deeply trusts our military because they protect our national security. I hope we can stick to that role.

Speaker 5 Well, I certainly appreciate that. And,

Speaker 5 you know, it's interesting. Just recently in Los Angeles, we had some of the most destructive wildfires in U.S.
history. And we deployed roughly 3,000 of our National Guard men and women.

Speaker 5 They were there on the scene. Quite literally, they had pre-positioned these rattlesnake teams.
They were doing some defensive work on vegetation management before the fires erupted.

Speaker 5 And thousands were deployed within hours and days to protect

Speaker 5 and support our law enforcement, obviously our firefighters, but also keep the peace. They're extraordinary young men and women.
And to see them used in this way

Speaker 5 is remarkable as much as it is demoralizing, not just for those of us in positions that we share, but for them themselves. I mean, this is not what they signed up for to be in this position.

Speaker 10 That's exactly right.

Speaker 10 Look,

Speaker 10 our National Guard has been extremely important,

Speaker 10 very important element,

Speaker 10 again, to our national security.

Speaker 10 During the time we were conducting the war on terror, the National Guard was actually being deployed and activated abroad to try to help in the war against al-Qaeda and terrorism.

Speaker 10 And that's what the National Guard is all about.

Speaker 10 You know, obviously,

Speaker 10 governors like yourself have a responsibility to be able to activate the National Guard when they're needed, as you did, certainly with regards to the fires in California and certainly with regards to other areas where you feel it's necessary.

Speaker 10 And that is what the National Guard is for.

Speaker 10 When a president comes in and basically activates them for what I believe are more political purposes than purposes related to protecting the public's interest, then, as I said, it undermines trust,

Speaker 10 not just

Speaker 10 in

Speaker 10 our way of government, it undermines trust in the fundamental role of the National Guard and our military. So, I'm very concerned about this.

Speaker 10 I think we have to continue to hold the line, do the right thing, make sure that we're making the right decisions. And ultimately, I think

Speaker 10 we will get back

Speaker 10 to

Speaker 10 using the National Guard the way they're supposed to be used, because that is what the men and women in the National Guard, that's why they joined, is to be able to be deployed pursuant to the law, not against the law.

Speaker 5 Here, here.

Speaker 5 Well, I appreciate that sentiment, and we're doing what we can, not only to exercise our moral authority as it relates to calling that out and

Speaker 5 trying to organize a larger consciousness. This is, by the way, not about California.
The order that initiated this is a national order.

Speaker 5 The President of the United States now can move freely on the basis of this action to do the same on a whim.

Speaker 5 with any modest protest that law enforcement, local law enforcement, can easily address and now can look to weaponize the guard. But I'm curious,

Speaker 5 you, I'm sure, saw the president's speech at Fort Bragg.

Speaker 5 So much attention a few days later was placed on the military parade. And I'm curious your thoughts on that.
And I think good people can view that through very different lenses.

Speaker 5 But the Fort Bragg speech, I think, underscores, Mr. Secretary, some of your comments.
In this case, not the National Guard, but men and women in uniform, active military personnel,

Speaker 5 hooting and hollering, booing,

Speaker 5 former president, the current governor, California, other elected officials. At the same time, the President of the United States, as he was giving a speech, was selling Trump campaign merchandise.

Speaker 5 I don't want to tee up a softball for you, but I imagine, again, it's a former CIA director, not just former Secretary of Defense and Chief of Staff and former member of Congress.

Speaker 5 You ever seen anything like that?

Speaker 10 Look, you know,

Speaker 10 obviously we live in

Speaker 10 unique times with

Speaker 10 a president who doesn't necessarily respect

Speaker 10 all of the values that past presidents, whether they're Republican or Democrat, have always respected.

Speaker 10 And when he turns, when he

Speaker 10 has that kind of speech, which is basically a political rally

Speaker 10 with our men and women in uniform,

Speaker 10 in many ways he's demeaning their role.

Speaker 10 And, you know,

Speaker 10 what bothers me is that

Speaker 10 I believe the President of the United States as Commander-in-Chief

Speaker 10 is responsible for protecting our national security. And the way you protect our national security is by deploying our men and women

Speaker 10 where you need them in order to ensure that we protect

Speaker 10 our democracy.

Speaker 10 That's why they're there. That's why we train them.
That's why they go into the military. This is a volunteer force.
They go in because

Speaker 10 they want to basically help defend this country. I've looked into their eyes in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere.

Speaker 10 And these are young men and women who are prepared to fight and die for our country. And they will respond to the order of a commander-in-chief when necessary in order to help defend this country.

Speaker 10 The president needs to respect that role. The president of the United States needs to respect the role of our men and women in uniform, not

Speaker 10 use them for political purposes, not politicize their mission, not have a political rally

Speaker 10 at a military post, but give them the respect that they're due, which is that their primary role is to defend this country from foreign adversaries and not use them as if somehow he's an autocrat who would just basically use the military to protect his power.

Speaker 10 That is a misuse of the responsibility of Commander-in-Chief.

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