And, This is Secretary Leon Panetta

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.

Speaker 2 Tired of spills and stains on your sofa? Wash away your worries with Anibay. AniBay is the only machine-washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget-friendly prices.

Speaker 2 That's right, sofas start at just $699.

Speaker 2 Enjoy a no-risk experience with pet-friendly, stain-resistant, and changeable slip covers made with performance fabric.

Speaker 2 Experience cloud-like comfort with high-resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity, and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime.

Speaker 2 Shop washablefas.com for early Black Friday savings up to 60% off site-wide, backed by a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund.

Speaker 2 No return shipping or restocking fees, every penny back. Upgrade now at washablesofas.com.
Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Speaker 1 No, it's not too soon to start holiday shopping. Ulta Beauty's early Black Friday event is happening now through November 22nd.
Shop $10 beauty minis from brands like Mac and Too-Faced.

Speaker 1 Take 30% off Lancome and Touchland Fragrances and Body Mists. With new offers dropping every week, our associates can help you find the perfect gifts.

Speaker 1 Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop our early Black Friday event, Ulta Beauty. Gifting happens here.

Speaker 3 You know what your customers are doing right this second? The exact same thing you are, listening to me. Which, let's be honest, is kind of flattering.

Speaker 5 But my point is, ads on iHeartRadio actually get heard. In the car, at the gym, on the couch, while people are walking their dogs, who's a good boy? Who's a good boy? You're a good boy.
That's right.

Speaker 3 So why not make the next ad about you? Get started today.

Speaker 5 Call 844-844-i-Heart or go to to iHeartAdvertising.com. That's 844-844-i-Heart or iHeartAdvertising.com.

Speaker 6 A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught.
The answers were there, hidden in plain sight.

Speaker 6 So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer. The investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam.

Speaker 6 Available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 7 On this week's episode of Next Chapter, I, TT Jake, sit down with Denzel Washington, a two-time Academy Award-winning actor and cultural icon for a conversation about change, identity, and the moment everything shifted.

Speaker 8 I mean, I don't take any credit for it.

Speaker 9 It's nothing I did

Speaker 8 special. You know, didn't knock down a few pegs and recognize it, but I just didn't put me first.
I just put God first and He's carried me.

Speaker 7 Whether you're rebuilding, reimagining, or just trying to hold it together, this one will speak to you.

Speaker 7 Listen to the next chapter podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. New episodes drop weekly.

Speaker 5 Don't miss one of them.

Speaker 5 This is Gavin Newsom, and this is Secretary Leon Panetto.

Speaker 5 Ms. Secretary, thanks for taking the time to be with us.
And as a fellow Californian, it seems appropriate that I start here. We have so many topics to discuss, obviously, many issues going on

Speaker 5 that are radically evolving in real time overseas.

Speaker 5 But one thing that continues to evolve in a very remarkable and meaningful way here in our own state of California in Los Angeles is the deployment of close to 5,000 military personnel.

Speaker 5 In fact, last count was 4,946

Speaker 5 formerly National Guard, now federalized and active duty U.S. Marines that have been deployed to the streets of Los Angeles.
But Mr.

Speaker 5 Secretary, what's remarkable to me, and this is where I want to begin with you, is only a very small percentage have been mission tasked.

Speaker 5 The rest, quite literally, are sitting around waiting for assignments. Thousands and thousands.

Speaker 5 of former National Guard men and women that were working to do

Speaker 5 drug interdiction, working on the border on behalf of the state, including many of them working for other state agencies in law enforcement, have been federalized.

Speaker 5 And I'm curious, your thoughts about what you've seen in Los Angeles, your own reflection as a former Secretary of Defense, former chief of staff.

Speaker 5 Did you ever imagine thousands and thousands of men and women being federalized against the wills of a governor of a home state?

Speaker 10 No, first of all, thank you having me as part of your

Speaker 10 podcast here. It's good to be with you, Gavin.

Speaker 10 Look,

Speaker 10 I have

Speaker 10 a very different approach here. As a

Speaker 10 former member of Congress, former director of the CIA, and former Secretary of Defense,

Speaker 10 I think it's very important for this country to respect the role of the military.

Speaker 10 And the role of the military is basically to defend this country from foreign adversaries.

Speaker 10 And throughout our history, we've been very clear that

Speaker 10 the role of the military ought not to be used

Speaker 10 for law enforcement purposes.

Speaker 10 And I believe in that because, frankly, we need the military to protect our national security. The president just used our military to conduct an attack in Iran.

Speaker 10 That's what the military is about. That's what they're trained to do.

Speaker 10 And we have to respect that role.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 if we do anything to politicize the role of the military, it basically weakens our national security and weakens our national defense.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 I think that

Speaker 10 there are some real concerns about the

Speaker 10 politicalization of

Speaker 10 our military and particularly the activation of our National Guard here in California. It raises real concerns about whether or not politics are being played.

Speaker 10 I really do believe that

Speaker 10 this country

Speaker 10 deeply trusts our military because they protect our national security. I hope we can stick to that role.

Speaker 5 Well, I certainly appreciate that. And,

Speaker 5 you know, it's interesting. Just recently in Los Angeles, we had some of the most destructive wildfires in U.S.
history. And we deployed roughly 3,000 of our National Guard men and women.

Speaker 5 They were there on the scene. Quite literally, they had pre-positioned these rattlesnake teams.
They were doing some defensive work on vegetation management before the fires erupted.

Speaker 5 And thousands were deployed within hours and days to protect

Speaker 5 and support our law enforcement, obviously our firefighters, but also keep the peace. They're extraordinary young men and women.
And to see them used in this way

Speaker 5 is remarkable as much as it is demoralizing, not just for those of us in positions that we share, but for them themselves. I mean, this is not what they signed up for to be in this position.

Speaker 10 That's exactly right.

Speaker 10 Look,

Speaker 10 our National Guard has been extremely important,

Speaker 10 very important element,

Speaker 10 again, to our national security.

Speaker 10 During the time we were conducting the war on terror, the National Guard was actually being deployed and activated abroad to try to help in the war against al-Qaeda and terrorism.

Speaker 10 And that's what the National Guard is all about.

Speaker 10 You know, obviously,

Speaker 10 governors like yourself have a responsibility to be able to activate the National Guard when they're needed, as you did, certainly with regards to the fires in California and certainly with regards to other areas where you feel it's necessary.

Speaker 10 And that is what the National Guard is for.

Speaker 10 When a president comes in and basically activates them for what I believe are more political purposes than purposes related to protecting the public's interest, then, as I said, it undermines trust,

Speaker 10 not just

Speaker 10 in

Speaker 10 our way of government, it undermines trust in the fundamental role of the National Guard and our military. So, I'm very concerned about this.

Speaker 10 I think we have to continue to hold the line, do the right thing, make sure that we're making the right decisions. And ultimately, I think

Speaker 10 we will get back

Speaker 10 to

Speaker 10 using the National Guard the way they're supposed to be used, because that is what the men and women in the National Guard, that's why they joined, is to be able to be deployed pursuant to the law, not against the law.

Speaker 5 Here, here.

Speaker 5 Well, I appreciate that sentiment, and we're doing what we can, not only to exercise our moral authority as it relates to calling that out and

Speaker 5 trying to organize a larger consciousness. This is, by the way, not about California.
The order that initiated this is a national order.

Speaker 5 The President of the United States now can move freely on the basis of this action to do the same on a whim.

Speaker 5 with any modest protest that law enforcement, local law enforcement, can easily address and now can look to weaponize the guard. But I'm curious,

Speaker 5 you, I'm sure, saw the president's speech at Fort Bragg.

Speaker 5 So much attention a few days later was placed on the military parade. And I'm curious your thoughts on that.
And I think good people can view that through very different lenses.

Speaker 5 But the Fort Bragg speech, I think, underscores, Mr. Secretary, some of your comments.
In this case, not the National Guard, but men and women in uniform, active military personnel,

Speaker 5 hooting and hollering, booing,

Speaker 5 former president, the current governor, California, other elected officials. At the same time, the President of the United States, as he was giving a speech, was selling Trump campaign merchandise.

Speaker 5 I don't want to tee up a softball for you, but I imagine, again, it's a former CIA director, not just former Secretary of Defense and Chief of Staff and former member of Congress.

Speaker 5 You ever seen anything like that?

Speaker 10 Look, you know,

Speaker 10 obviously we live in

Speaker 10 unique times with

Speaker 10 a president who doesn't necessarily respect

Speaker 10 all of the values that past presidents, whether they're Republican or Democrat, have always respected.

Speaker 10 And when he turns, when he

Speaker 10 has that kind of speech, which is basically a political rally

Speaker 10 with our men and women in uniform,

Speaker 10 in many ways he's demeaning their role.

Speaker 10 And, you know,

Speaker 10 what bothers me is that

Speaker 10 I believe the President of the United States as Commander-in-Chief

Speaker 10 is responsible for protecting our national security. And the way you protect our national security is by deploying our men and women

Speaker 10 where you need them in order to ensure that we protect

Speaker 10 our democracy.

Speaker 10 That's why they're there. That's why we train them.
That's why they go into the military. This is a volunteer force.
They go in because

Speaker 10 they want to basically help defend this country. I've looked into their eyes in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere.

Speaker 10 And these are young men and women who are prepared to fight and die for our country. And they will respond to the order of a commander-in-chief when necessary in order to help defend this country.

Speaker 10 The president needs to respect that role. The president of the United States needs to respect the role of our men and women in uniform, not

Speaker 10 use them for political purposes, not politicize their mission, not have a political rally

Speaker 10 at a military post, but give them the respect that they're due, which is that their primary role is to defend this country from foreign adversaries and not use them as if somehow he's an autocrat who would just basically use the military to protect his power.

Speaker 10 That is a misuse of the responsibility of Commander-in-Chief.

Speaker 4 If you have ever worried about the safety of your home, you need to hear this. Right now, SimplySafe is giving This Is Gavin Newsome listeners early access to their Black Friday sale.

Speaker 4 Here's why SimplySafe is the only security system you should trust to keep your home safe. Typical security systems don't really prevent someone from entering your home.

Speaker 4 They just react once someone is already inside. Real security stops a crime before it even starts.
That's why over 4 million Americans trust SimplySafe.

Speaker 4 SimplySafe takes action before a criminal gets into your home. The moment someone steps onto your property, AI security cameras identify the threat and alert SimplySafe's live agents.

Speaker 4 Agents take action immediately, confronting the criminal and if they need to, triggering sirens and dispatching the police. SimplySafe is like having your own personal security guard.

Speaker 4 And right right now, you can take 60% off any new system with early access to SimplySafe's Black Friday sale at simplysafe.com/slash Gavin. That's simplysafe.com/slash Gavin for 60% off.

Speaker 4 There's no safe like SimplySafe.

Speaker 2 There's nothing like sinking into luxury. Anibay sofas combine ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price.

Speaker 2 Anibay has designed the only fully machine-washable sofa from top top to bottom. The stain-resistant performance fabric slip covers and cloud-like frame duvet can go straight into your wash.

Speaker 2 Perfect for anyone with kids, pets, or anyone who loves an easy-to-clean, spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slip covers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style.

Speaker 2 Whether you need a single chair, love seat, or a luxuriously large sectional, Anibay has you covered. Visit washablefas.com to upgrade your home.

Speaker 2 Sofas started just $699 and right now, get early access to Black Friday savings, up to 60% off store-wide with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Shop now at washablesofas.com.

Speaker 5 Add a little

Speaker 2 to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Speaker 11 Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?

Speaker 5 Think again.

Speaker 11 More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.

Speaker 11 So whatever your customers are into, true crime, sports, comedy, culture, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.

Speaker 11 And all this reach means everything. Just think about the universal marketing formula.
The number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results.

Speaker 11 Now let's get those results growing for you. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart: streaming, radio, and podcasting.
Let us show you at iHeartAdvertising.com.

Speaker 11 That's iHeartAdvertising.com.

Speaker 5 Or call 844-844-iHeart. One more time, call 844-844-iHeart and get podcasting working for you.

Speaker 6 A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught.
The answers were there, hidden in plain sight.

Speaker 6 So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, the Investigation into the Most Notorious Killer in New York since the son of Sam.

Speaker 6 Available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 5 Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here.
I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health. And I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mail Room.

Speaker 12 And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like a lot of guys, I haven't been to the doctor in many years.

Speaker 9 I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't.

Speaker 5 Because guys usually don't go to the doctor unless a piece of their face is hanging off or they've broken a bone.

Speaker 13 Depends which bone.

Speaker 5 Well, that's true. Every week we're breaking down the unique world of men's health, from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility and things that happen in the bedroom.

Speaker 9 You mean sleep?

Speaker 5 Yeah, something like that, Jordan. We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about.

Speaker 13 It's going to be fun, whether you're 27, 97, or somewhere in between.

Speaker 5 Men's Health is about more than six packs and supplements. It's about energy, confidence, and connection.
We don't just want you to live longer. We want you to live better.

Speaker 5 So check out the mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

Speaker 5 There seems to be a lack of clarity. in terms of that perspective and response, particularly from Congress.

Speaker 5 You served served in Congress for, well, what, 16 plus years, and you revere the institution. I've heard you, Mr.

Speaker 5 Secretary, on previous interviews talking about of all the jobs you had, from OMB director to working under the Nixon administration, remarkably in that Office of Civil Rights, that your time in Congress, when it worked,

Speaker 5 it was a point of deep pride and reverence.

Speaker 5 When you look at Congress today,

Speaker 5 you look at the lack of oversight, checks, and balances. You look at what I would refer to as the appalling silence on issues like those we just discussed.

Speaker 5 What's your assessment where we are and how the hell do we get out of this moment?

Speaker 10 Well, I have very deep respect for our founding fathers and what they...

Speaker 10 what they wanted in their genius to do in creating our democracy.

Speaker 10 They made very clear at the Constitutional Convention that they did not want to centralize power in any one branch of government. They didn't want a king.
They didn't want a king parliament.

Speaker 10 They didn't want a star chamber court. They had seen what that was about in those times.
And so they wanted to make sure

Speaker 10 that

Speaker 10 they would limit power.

Speaker 10 And the way they did that is by creating three separate but equal branches of government, each a check and balance on the other.

Speaker 10 And for 250 years, that system of checks and balances has worked pretty well. It's been threatened, it's been challenged, but it's worked pretty well.

Speaker 10 And we are now in one of those periods where our system of checks and balances is being tested.

Speaker 10 And my concern right now is that the institutions they created to provide that check and balance, they themselves are being tested.

Speaker 10 Congress, unfortunately, is not standing up and really being a check in our system right now.

Speaker 10 They're basically standing back

Speaker 10 and

Speaker 10 giving

Speaker 10 the president

Speaker 10 a free ride,

Speaker 10 a blank check with regards to everything he's doing rather than serving as a check, rather than having the hearings that have to be done,

Speaker 10 rather than standing up and saying, no, we cannot abuse the Constitution of the United States. We swear an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution.
We have to stand by that.

Speaker 10 I was a believer in that as somebody in Congress who swore that oath.

Speaker 10 And I think that's what Congress has to do. That's not happening.
We understand that. So

Speaker 10 the only check that's happening right now, we certainly aren't getting a check by the executive, the only check that's happening right now that's effective are the courts.

Speaker 10 And I give them a tremendous amount of credit for their willingness to stand up and to be able to uphold the rule of law. Unfortunately,

Speaker 10 as we all know, it takes time for the courts to act.

Speaker 10 And a lot of damage can be done in the interim.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 I really think it's important that our system of checks and balances work and probably the only way that's going to happen right now is the American people because the American people are the ultimate check in a democracy.

Speaker 10 That's in the Constitution. Their ability to vote, their ability to vote for elected leaders is the fundamental check in a democracy.
So I remain hopeful.

Speaker 10 that ultimately we will get through this because our forefathers believed that we cannot afford to centralize power, certainly in the presidency.

Speaker 5 I appreciate it. I'm reminded, as you share those words and thoughts, of Justice Brandeis, who said, in a democracy, the most important office is office of citizen.

Speaker 5 This notion of active, not inert citizenship.

Speaker 5 And it's reminded everybody listening of the imperative to reconcile the fact that you're not bystanders, that we have agency, that we can shape the the future.

Speaker 5 And I think in so many ways we saw that

Speaker 5 on the same day that the president was celebrating. And I certainly appreciate celebrating

Speaker 5 with the kind of reverence they deserve the United States military in a parade.

Speaker 5 Same time, though, millions of people showed up in a no-kings rally, sort of reinforcing the framework that our founding fathers tried to correct, or at least counter.

Speaker 5 And I think it shows that

Speaker 5 democracy is still alive

Speaker 5 bottom up, if not the moment top-down.

Speaker 10 Gavin, I often say that

Speaker 10 in my over 50 years of public life, I've seen Washington at its best and I've seen Washington at its worst.

Speaker 10 The good news is I've seen Washington work.

Speaker 10 When I was first elected,

Speaker 10 Tip O'Neill was Speaker of the House, a Democrats-Democrat from Boston. But he had a great relationship with Bob Michael, who was the minority leader from Illinois.

Speaker 10 And the basic message, of course, they had their politics.

Speaker 10 They fought each other in election.

Speaker 10 But when it came to big issues, they worked together. The message we always got is that Republicans and Democrats have to work together in order to govern the country.
And we did. We did.

Speaker 10 During the Reagan administration,

Speaker 10 a Democratic Congress passed Social Security reform. That's the third rail of politics.
We passed it with a bipartisan vote. We passed immigration reform, comprehensive immigration reform, bipartisan,

Speaker 10 bipartisan vote. We passed tax reform.

Speaker 10 We dealt with the budget. We were able to, frankly, pass agreements.
to help bring the deficit down and discipline the federal budget and balance the federal budget.

Speaker 10 Not only balance it, but get a surplus. That was done because parties were willing to work together.

Speaker 10 Today, we are at a time when there's a lot of partisanship, a lot of division, a lot of unwillingness to be able to govern together. And the result is that Washington is dysfunctional.

Speaker 10 And that is hurting our democracy.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 on that topic, because we've explored that on the podcast, we've had a number of interesting guests and people very familiar to you. Former speaker Newt Gingrich Gingrich was on.

Speaker 5 We had an opportunity to talk to Frank Luntz. Obviously, that's very personal to you because you referenced in that list.

Speaker 5 You have a lot of receipts on that list,

Speaker 5 as personal as it is to you, not only as a former member of Congress, some of those line items you just listed, but also you were chief of staff of Bill Clinton when we had that balanced budget.

Speaker 5 You worked with Newt Gingrich across the party lines. You proved, not just asserted, that we can work together across our our differences.

Speaker 5 But the question that I'm continuing to sort of be vexed with is what the hell happened and when did it happen and who's responsible? And when did things start to collapse?

Speaker 5 I mean, at the same time, it seemed to be peak partisanship. You guys were working together in the Clinton administration.
You took over.

Speaker 5 I mean, I'll say with love and respect to former President Clinton, but it was rather dysfunctional office at the time. You got shellacked in the midterms.

Speaker 5 You've described the former president Clinton as being depressed in terms about his standing. And you came in and you were part of that turnaround.
And you also

Speaker 5 advanced a different frame, a closed fist, talk about turnaround, with an open hand to partner with a Republican

Speaker 5 speaker and produce those results. But was that the moment things were advanced or was that the moment the

Speaker 10 It was not an easy time,

Speaker 10 as you pointed out. Imagine.

Speaker 10 I mean, the president, President Clinton,

Speaker 10 you know, really

Speaker 10 was moving forward. He had passed a very tough budget.

Speaker 10 We were passing appropriations bills. He passed family leave.

Speaker 10 He passed NAFTA. He passed a number of things.

Speaker 10 And then, as you all know, in politics,

Speaker 10 it can come back to bite you, and it did in the midterms.

Speaker 10 And the president lost the Congress to the Republicans, and he was depressed about

Speaker 10 where his administration was going to go. And

Speaker 10 having been through these changes in my own lifetime, I told the president, look, ultimately, every crisis provides an opportunity. This is a crisis.
It does provide an opportunity.

Speaker 10 You need to sit sit down and try to see if there are areas where we can work together. Unfortunately, at the beginning, Newt Ginrich took a position.

Speaker 10 He was going to push for his own budget, cut Medicare, and cut some other vital programs. The president dug in, and what the Republicans did in response was to shut the government down.

Speaker 10 The government was shut down. This is the first time the government was shut down for almost two weeks.

Speaker 10 and it backfired on the Republicans. And Newt Ginrich then, to his credit, decided maybe the better approach would be to actually try to work with the president.
The president took him up on that.

Speaker 10 They were able to work together. We did some things on the budget.
We did some things on health care. We were able to get things done.

Speaker 10 But that was because there was a willingness then to try to see if we could govern together, to get back to the basics of governing together.

Speaker 10 That's what needs to happen.

Speaker 10 I mean, I think in some ways, I'm really offended that the President of the United States did not give a heads up to Congress on this military strike that took place in Iran.

Speaker 10 That's a responsibility of the President to be able to inform the Congress, both Republicans and Democrats, the gang of eight, as to what's happening with regards to our national security.

Speaker 10 Commander-in-Chief is deploying our men and women into harm's way. He's got to be willing to make sure that both Republicans and Democrats on the the Hill are aware of

Speaker 10 what is happening. And unfortunately, that didn't take place.
And I think

Speaker 10 it's a real slap in the face to how our democracy should function.

Speaker 5 You know, interestingly, Mr. Secretary, I can attest to that just on a personal basis, because I was speaking at an event I was with

Speaker 5 minority leader Jeffries.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 as he was walking out of the event,

Speaker 5 we all started to see on our cell phones what had just occurred.

Speaker 5 We spent an hour and a half at that event talking about every conceivable issue.

Speaker 5 And here it was happening in real time.

Speaker 5 And the future Speaker of the House of Representatives, to your point, was not even, they didn't have any the courtesy of a heads up. But I'm curious

Speaker 5 on that. And going back just briefly, and I want to move off it, but I am fascinated.
I mean, we talk about this dysfunction.

Speaker 5 We talk about Tip O'Neill and all the wonderful stories of O'Neill and Reagan working together across their differences. You've amplified that as it relates to even Clinton and Gingrich.

Speaker 5 But was there a moment, was that moment despite the fact that they were able to persevere and those two personalities, remarkable personalities, historic personalities, Clinton and Gingrich, were able to finally find some common ground?

Speaker 5 Was that the beginning of the end, though? I mean, do you mark that as a moment where things did radically change?

Speaker 5 The government shut down the approach Gingrich had, initial approach, in terms of his relationship with the presidency and the executive? There's no question.

Speaker 10 And I've told Newt this directly. I said

Speaker 10 that

Speaker 10 what happened was

Speaker 10 that

Speaker 10 Newt was really struggling to try to get the Republicans in power, and he was willing to undermine the institution

Speaker 10 of the House of Representatives in the Congress in order to get that done. He actually basically undercut

Speaker 10 almost members in his own party in order to be able to do that. And it was kind of a real cutthroat approach to politics.

Speaker 10 And it created some bad feelings. And look, the Democrats made their mistakes as well.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 when both sides decided that rather than working together, they would get into their own trenches and basically throw grenades at one another,

Speaker 10 that really was the beginning of the end in terms of governing. I mean,

Speaker 10 the problem is for the last 20 years,

Speaker 10 look, I tell the students at the Panetta Institute. that in a democracy we govern either by leadership or by crisis.

Speaker 10 If leadership is there and willing to make tough decisions and basically reach across and try to develop consensus and compromise, we can avoid crisis.

Speaker 10 But if that leadership isn't there, then we'll govern by crisis. And I have to tell you, for the last 20 or 25 years in Washington, they've largely been governing by crisis.
And that undermines trust.

Speaker 10 in our basic system of governing. And that's why, very frankly, Washington is so dysfunctional right now.

Speaker 2 Tired of spills and stains on your sofa? Wash away your worries with Anibay. Anibay is the only machine-washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget-friendly prices.

Speaker 2 That's right, sofas start at just $699.

Speaker 2 Enjoy a no-risk experience with pet-friendly, stain-resistant, and changeable slip covers made with performance fabric.

Speaker 2 Experience cloud-like comfort with high-resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity, and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime.

Speaker 2 Shop washable sofas.com for early Black Friday savings up to 60% off-site-wide, backed by a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund.

Speaker 2 No return shipping or restocking fees, every penny back. Upgrade now at washable sofas.com.
Offers are subject to change, and certain restrictions may apply.

Speaker 11 Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?

Speaker 5 Think again.

Speaker 11 More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.

Speaker 11 So whatever your customers are into, true crime, sports, comedy, culture, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.

Speaker 11 And all this reach means everything. Just think about the universal marketing formula: the number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results.

Speaker 11 Now, let's get those results growing for you. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart: streaming, radio, and podcasting.
Let us show you at iHeartAdvertising.com.

Speaker 11 That's iHeartAdvertising.com.

Speaker 5 Or call 844-844-iHeart. One more time: call 844-844-iHeart and get podcasting working for you.

Speaker 6 A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight.

Speaker 6 So, why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer.

Speaker 6 The investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam. Available now.
Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 5 Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here.
I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health, and I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mail Room.

Speaker 12 And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like a lot of guys, I haven't been to the doctor in many years.

Speaker 9 I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't.

Speaker 5 Because guys usually don't go to the doctor unless a piece of their face is hanging off or they've broken a bone.

Speaker 13 Depends which bone.

Speaker 5 Well, that's true. Every week we're breaking down the unique world of men's health, from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility and things that happen in the bedroom.

Speaker 9 You mean sleep?

Speaker 5 Yeah, something like that, Jordan. We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about.

Speaker 13 It's going to be fun, whether you're 27, 97, or somewhere in between.

Speaker 5 Men's Health is about more than six packs and supplements. It's about energy, confidence, and connection.
We don't just want you to live longer. We want you to live better.

Speaker 5 So check out the mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

Speaker 14 On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

Speaker 15 Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double-board certified physician.

Speaker 14 And I'm Hari Kundabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I have scurvy at 3 a.m.?

Speaker 15 On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way. It's not only about what we can do to improve our health, but also what our health says about us and the way we're living.

Speaker 14 Like our episode episode where we look at diabetes.

Speaker 15 In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic.

Speaker 14 How preventable is type 2?

Speaker 15 Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

Speaker 14 Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world that like your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but like you don't even know.

Speaker 10 You don't know. You don't know.

Speaker 15 It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in.

Speaker 14 Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 5 You know, in your remarkable career and spans quite literally over half a century and continues to this day at the Panetta Institute.

Speaker 5 You know, you served in many different roles.

Speaker 5 Of course, we reflect on the last time we had a balanced budget, even a surplus under your tutelage and stewardship as chief of staff in the Clinton administration.

Speaker 5 But you went on to serve in other roles, and as I've referenced a moment ago, from OMB to obviously Secretary of State of Defense and CIA Director. I'm curious.
your reflection.

Speaker 5 You know, there's been, it seems to me,

Speaker 5 an assault on knowledge, particularly at West Point. Recently, there were reports, not specific, that books are being banned.

Speaker 5 Baldwin, you know, other books from well-known authors, historic facts that appear to be being censored.

Speaker 5 West Point, my gosh,

Speaker 5 these are the best of the best, these remarkable young cadets.

Speaker 5 And I'm just curious, you know, you were part of the sort of pulling back and don't ask, don't tell women in the military and being able to lead.

Speaker 5 You moved in a very different direction in your leadership roles.

Speaker 5 What's your reflection of where we are now in this sort of assault on all things, quote-unquote, wokeness or DEI or even on historic facts.

Speaker 10 Well, you know,

Speaker 10 Gavin, I'm the son of immigrants,

Speaker 10 Italian immigrants who came to this country like millions of others.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 I can remember asking my dad,

Speaker 10 why did he come all of that distance to come to a strange land? And I never forgot his answer, which was that my mother and he believed they could give our children a better life in this country.

Speaker 10 I think that's the American dream, and that's what we want for our children.

Speaker 10 And I think to get there, we have to embrace our freedoms, not destroy our freedoms, not destroy our openness, not destroy our ability to learn from one another.

Speaker 10 We may not like what others say, but the ability to listen, the ability to have a say, the ability to enjoy different points of view

Speaker 10 is what our freedom, what the American dream is all about.

Speaker 10 I had

Speaker 10 young people who wanted to serve in the military. That's a good thing.
We ought to give them that opportunity to serve. And that's what I tried to do as secretary.

Speaker 10 Regardless of of their race or color or creed or sexual preference. The fact is they wanted to serve this country.
And you know what? They did a damn good job serving this country.

Speaker 10 And that's true for our men and women in our academies, whether it's West Point or Annapolis or others.

Speaker 10 Their ability to embrace everyone who wants to serve, to embrace our freedom, to embrace openness, to embrace what our society is all about, to embrace what democracy is all about.

Speaker 10 These are young people are going to put their lives on the line to basically protect our country.

Speaker 10 They need

Speaker 10 to know the importance of why they're going to fight and die for their country.

Speaker 10 And that's why they need to be exposed to all kinds of views. And that's what the Academy has done in the past.
I regret that they're getting all worked up about

Speaker 10 their approach now with regards to books and what have you. I mean, this is a throwback to

Speaker 10 the age of witches in Salem, for God's sake.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 it really is important.

Speaker 10 And listen, we'll get beyond this. I do not consider this any kind of permanent face that's going to take place.
I think this is just a moment in time. And we've seen many of those in 250 years.

Speaker 10 This is a moment in time. But ultimately, we are going to get back to the values of our democracy that made us strong.
There is no other way that this country can survive.

Speaker 5 And I appreciate that optimism. I imagine others listening

Speaker 5 that warms their heart. But what, I mean, and I don't mean to be modeling, just let me stress test it a little bit, you know, and challenge you on that.

Speaker 5 I mean, it's been an extraordinary few months, this administration. And I, you know,

Speaker 5 you served as an OMB director. You've got a new one in there now that,

Speaker 5 boy, these guys were, they wound up. They were ready to go.
This 2025 project,

Speaker 5 there was a plan. They're executing a plan.

Speaker 5 I mean, I don't imagine, I appreciate all the work you did as OMB director, but I'm not sure you had an agenda that was this thick and this prescriptive and laid out that goes to assault these institutions, assaults

Speaker 5 our norms

Speaker 5 and traditions.

Speaker 5 Why do you remain so confident that we can withstand? We acknowledge there's only one other branch of government left, the courts, at the moment, and obviously the Court of Public Opinion.

Speaker 5 Perhaps that may be the answer.

Speaker 10 Yeah, you know, look, there's no question there's a lot of damage being done. I think we're seeing that every day.

Speaker 10 What's happening with immigrants, what's happening with the rule of law, what's happening with funding,

Speaker 10 what's happening with federal civil servants.

Speaker 10 There's just an awful lot of damage that is being done. But,

Speaker 10 you know,

Speaker 10 I really believe, I guess

Speaker 10 this goes to the heart of why I feel the way I do, because, you know, in my 50 years,

Speaker 10 I've witnessed a lot of different people come into office, a lot of different views that were brought in.

Speaker 10 But there were, you know, for 80 years going back

Speaker 10 to World War II,

Speaker 10 whether a president was Republican or Democrat, there were some fundamental values that every one of them had

Speaker 10 and shared.

Speaker 10 And that was not only American world leadership.

Speaker 10 They also respected the values of our democracy.

Speaker 10 They also...

Speaker 10 made very clear

Speaker 10 that

Speaker 10 this country was going to respect the rule of law and our Constitution.

Speaker 10 They also made very clear that we would

Speaker 10 work

Speaker 10 through our democracy in order to make change. Every president wants to make change, but most presidents make change by working through our Constitution and through our democracy.

Speaker 10 Look, Bill Clinton, when he became president of the United States, made the decision that we were going to try to achieve almost $500 billion in deficit reduction.

Speaker 10 But we did that through the budget. I sat down with the president.
We walked through the budget. He made decisions about what programs ought to be funded, what programs ought to be cut.

Speaker 10 And we put that into a budget, sent it to the Congress.

Speaker 10 That's the way you're supposed to do it. And we were successful.
We passed that budget.

Speaker 10 And yes, you know, we were able to achieve $500 billion in deficit reduction, but we we did it pursuant to the law and pursuant to the Constitution.

Speaker 10 Why this president comes in and throws all of that out the window, gets Doge, gets Elon Musk, gets whoever else to suddenly engage in this kind of vigilante approach to democracy basically undermines our democracy.

Speaker 10 Doesn't strengthen our democracy. It undermines it.
You undermine the power of the Congress, which has the the power of the purse under our Constitution.

Speaker 10 It's the Congress that decides what is funded and what programs are protected,

Speaker 10 not a group of vigilantes.

Speaker 10 So,

Speaker 10 look, the courts have been finding that that is the case time and time again.

Speaker 10 I really do believe that ultimately the American people do not want

Speaker 10 a king

Speaker 10 as president. They want a president who understands that his oath to the Constitution has to come first.

Speaker 10 That's where the American people are at.

Speaker 10 And yeah, you know, presidents can say or do whatever the hell they want. But ultimately, it's the American people who rule in this country.

Speaker 10 And I honestly believe that whether they're living in a red state or a blue state, they believe in American values and they believe in the rule rule of law and they believe in the Constitution.

Speaker 10 That's why this country is going to survive.

Speaker 5 I love it. I love it.
I'm going to bookmark that. That's a point of optimism.

Speaker 1 No, it's not too soon to start holiday shopping. Ulta Beauty's early Black Friday event is happening now through November 22nd.
Shop $10 beauty minis from brands like Mac and Too Faced.

Speaker 1 Take 30% off Lancome and Touchland fragrances and body mists. With new offers dropping every week, our associates can help you find the perfect gifts.

Speaker 1 Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop our early Black Friday event, Ulta Beauty. Gifting happens here.

Speaker 16 In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you.

Speaker 17 Don't let them down. Unlock Elite Gaming Tech at Lenofo.com.

Speaker 16 Dominate every match with next-level speed, seamless streaming, and performance that won't flip. Push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors for the next era of gaming.

Speaker 16 Upgrade to smooth high-quality streaming with Intel Wi-Fi 6e and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking.

Speaker 17 Win the tech search. Power up at lenovo.com.

Speaker 18 This is the story of the one. As a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility, he knows keeping the line up and running is a top priority.
That's why he chooses Granger.

Speaker 18 Because when a drive belt gets damaged, Granger makes it easy to find the exact specs for the replacement product he needs.

Speaker 18 And next day delivery helps ensure he'll have everything in place and running like clockwork. Call 1-800-GRANGER, clickgranger.com, or just stop by.

Speaker 5 Granger for the ones who get it done.

Speaker 6 A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught.
The answers were there, hidden in plain sight.

Speaker 6 So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the son of Sam.

Speaker 6 Available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 7 On this week's episode of the next chapter, I, TTJ, sit down with Denzel Washington, a two-time Academy Award-winning actor and cultural icon for a conversation about about change, identity, and the moment everything shifted.

Speaker 8 I mean, I don't take any credit for it.

Speaker 9 It's nothing I did

Speaker 8 special, you know, been knocked down a few pegs and recognized it, but I just didn't put me first. I just put God first and he's carried me.

Speaker 7 Whether you're rebuilding, reimagining, or just trying to hold it together, this one will speak to you.

Speaker 7 Listen to the next chapter podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. New episodes drop weekly.
Don't miss one of them.

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.