And, This is More With Dr. Phil - Is Free Speech Under Attack?

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Speaker 19 This is Gavin Newsom.

Speaker 19 And tune in for more with Dr. Phil.

Speaker 19 Well, look, I appreciate everything you said, but I also appreciate the spirit

Speaker 19 behind it. And I think, look, it's one of the reasons we started this podcast.
And it's been really interesting, Dr. Phil.

Speaker 19 It's really underscored the nature of, and you've talked a lot about cancel culture and this incapacity

Speaker 19 to be willing to engage people you may disagree with. And as you say, focus on the things we have in common.
But it's interesting how quick people are to judge and how quickly we are all judged.

Speaker 19 I imagine just the response you got coming out of that Madison Square Garden

Speaker 19 rally. I imagine just now you're sort of foray with ICE and maybe just a little bit more into the political realm, how quick people are to judge.

Speaker 19 And so I think it's incredibly important because divorce is not an option. We're all in this together.
And,

Speaker 19 you know, it's becoming more and more exhausting.

Speaker 19 And as you have rightfully highlighted, you did it in your book, We've Got Issues, the nature of social media and algorithms and what's going on in terms of how things have become weaponized and how we are increasingly feeling out of control, isolated, disconnected from larger sense of purpose, meaning, all the things you've been talking about on your show and the work you've been doing.

Speaker 19 And so just on that, what more can we be doing? What can we be doing to soften the edges of this discourse and begin the process of

Speaker 19 being repair is proverbially the breach?

Speaker 20 Do you think freedom of speech is under attack?

Speaker 19 I think it is. And I've made this point.
One of the reasons I have long admired Bill Maher and gone on his show a dozen times.

Speaker 19 since my mayor days is I didn't like the way he was being attacked, the freedom of speech, his expression was being attacked on my own UC campuses. I've watched canceled culture,

Speaker 19 never been a champion of canceled culture. Of course, I've seen it on all sides.
We saw it with Bud Light. We saw it with Target last year.
You know, it occurs.

Speaker 19 You know, there's boycotts all the time coming from both prisms, the political parties. But

Speaker 19 I think it's out of control. And I think it's something we need to push back against and we need to own up to.

Speaker 20 You know, it seems to be worse in California than I've moved back to Texas and you know no place is perfect but you know I see things like

Speaker 20 what was it Berkeley where

Speaker 20 Ann Coulter got canceled they said it was for security concerns

Speaker 20 you can always have security uh but

Speaker 19 that Milo guy I can't remember his name I remember sort of the peak of that cancel uh culture Yeah, why do you think that is?

Speaker 20 I went to school a long time ago,

Speaker 20 but we always, if somebody was coming that we disagreed with,

Speaker 20 I always wanted to go hear what they had to say. So I had ammunition

Speaker 20 to debate them with or

Speaker 20 their positions with. And

Speaker 20 you never grow until you disprove yourself, until you find something wrong with the way you look at it.

Speaker 20 But it seems like in California,

Speaker 20 we've got the heckler's veto. It's like boo them down or block them from coming.
And I see it at

Speaker 20 Berkeley, UCLA, USC.

Speaker 20 And it just seems like, how are we ever going to broaden our perspectives if we don't get out of the bubble and at least listen to the other side?

Speaker 20 You may find out. That's exactly why I don't agree with that SOB.
Exactly. You've got to hear them to do it.

Speaker 19 I couldn't agree with you more. It needs to be called out.
I've been been trying to do what I can on that. I mean, be candid, that's why I've been calling out all these book bans.

Speaker 19 4,240 books and titles were banned last year in this country. I mean, we're censoring, you know, speech in the boardroom, not just in the classroom.
You've got folks are rewriting history.

Speaker 19 You've talked a lot about that, but on both sides of the aisle.

Speaker 19 I mean, they were trying to, one textbook in Florida tried to take out Rosa Park's race and said, oh, no, she was just a woman who wanted to move, needed to move her seat.

Speaker 19 So I think we have to own up to this. And I think, again, there's

Speaker 19 plenty of fingers to point, or at least plenty of people that we can point to. But all of us need to look in the mirror on this issue.
I agree with you.

Speaker 20 Has California taken a position on transgender athletes? I hadn't seen what the latest.

Speaker 19 Well, it did in 2013.

Speaker 19 In 2013, Governor Brown signed a bill allowing for

Speaker 19 people to participate.

Speaker 19 As you know uh that issue is is very raw and emotional and it's obviously very pointed at this moment uh because of some uh state championships there was two bills in the california legislature dr phil uh just a few weeks ago uh neither got out of the committee to change that rule so it currently is law in the state of california And CIF that that does the Inter Collegiate Foundation, you know, does all the sports, They're trying to find some accommodation that addresses the legitimate concerns around fairness, and I say legitimate concerns about fairness,

Speaker 19 and make sure that those that may have been displaced

Speaker 19 because they were outperformed by a transgender athlete have the opportunity to still participate and be recognized for that participation.

Speaker 19 We're also just trying to balance some grace, some humility, some humanity, particularly with transgender youth that just want to survive and don't want to be belittled and demeaned at the same time.

Speaker 19 So it's a very tough issue. And I know you've tackled that issue.
I think you've done it reasonably thoughtfully. I think you've tried to find the nuances here, but it's an incredibly difficult issue.

Speaker 19 And I say this as someone who's been an advocate for trans rights. but I do not think it's fair in these athletic competitions.
And I've made that point of view very, very public.

Speaker 20 Well, this is one of the things where I say that I believe that

Speaker 20 activists are pushing an agenda. And I've had so many

Speaker 20 transgender individuals on the show

Speaker 20 over the last 25 years.

Speaker 20 And I can tell you that they have said to me

Speaker 20 on the air and off,

Speaker 20 mostly off the air,

Speaker 20 that they wish those people would shut up.

Speaker 20 These shrill activists that are pushing these extreme positions.

Speaker 20 They're not speaking for us. They're not speaking for the community at large.

Speaker 20 And

Speaker 20 they say, look, we're living our lives. And there are enough challenges as it is without them pushing these extreme controversial issues

Speaker 20 that we don't particularly ascribe to,

Speaker 20 they're not helping us.

Speaker 20 That's something that they're just trying to rewrite biology on, or they're trying to make

Speaker 20 a battleground.

Speaker 20 uh they they do it effectively i i had professor carol hooven on from university or harvard university

Speaker 20 and

Speaker 20 she didn't even do the research. She was just reporting, did a meta-analysis on, I think it was 50-plus studies

Speaker 20 of others that had looked at the biological markers to see whether or not you could balance the playing field among elite athletes. And

Speaker 20 she looked at

Speaker 20 if you have testosterone blockers, if you have hormone suppression therapy, and

Speaker 20 for the required two years before and after poverty, looked at puberty, looked at every possible way.

Speaker 20 And the meta-analysis conclusion for good

Speaker 20 methodology with good N,

Speaker 20 you know, right number of subjects, and they concluded you just can't get there.

Speaker 20 I mean, even if it's 10%

Speaker 20 difference in swimming competition among elite athletes, as you know,

Speaker 20 they measure that by hundredths of a second off a fingernail touching the wall.

Speaker 20 And in a four-lap race, 10%, they can be down there kicking off the wall and they're standing there with their arms crossed waiting for them to make the last lap.

Speaker 19 No, wasn't one of the, what wasn't the one, is,

Speaker 19 and forgive me, wasn't she admonished by the administration over there as well for just concluding those?

Speaker 20 Completely drummed out of the university.

Speaker 20 We're transphobic,

Speaker 20 spawning hate speech.

Speaker 19 Well, doctor, trust me, I know a thing or two about this. I expressed my point of view.
I lost a few.

Speaker 19 I don't need to, we don't need to have a public therapy session here, but I lost some good friends.

Speaker 19 I mean, they're just, they won't talk to me. They're done.

Speaker 19 And, you know, I appreciate they felt hurt. They felt that a point of view was

Speaker 19 somehow diminishing.

Speaker 19 As someone who's been an advocate that I put up against any other elected official, I have a very strong record. As you know, I think the first time I was on your show

Speaker 19 was on the issue of LGBT rights.

Speaker 19 And I've been an advocate for decades and decades, but on the issue of sports and what you just, you know, you laid out as it relates to many different factors that are unique. And

Speaker 19 for regardless of puberty brokers,

Speaker 19 I just think this issue we have to address and to not address, we are in denial.

Speaker 20 Well, that's a good point because I remember when you were there and you and I agreed on that.

Speaker 20 We were both advocates for LGBTQ

Speaker 20 rights, but

Speaker 20 this is a bridge too far. This is,

Speaker 20 you have

Speaker 20 these

Speaker 20 elite athletes.

Speaker 20 These are kids that get up

Speaker 20 oftentimes

Speaker 20 an hour or two before school. I mean, they're up at four and five o'clock in the morning working out before school for years.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 20 And then all of a sudden, somebody steps in and bumps them out of the competition. And

Speaker 20 I hate to see that.

Speaker 19 Yeah. Well, which I got four young kids, all athletes.
Wife who played for the...

Speaker 19 Junior national soccer team. I got into college,

Speaker 19 only got into a four-year college because of sports. And it's in many ways the reason I'm here.

Speaker 19 So I deeply appreciate how resonant this issue and passionate this issue is. At the same time, you know,

Speaker 19 I humbly submit, Doctor, that I think it's been weaponized by some groups. I'm not suggesting by any stretch you have.

Speaker 19 I think I've listened to you on this topic, and I think you've tried to be very thoughtful on it.

Speaker 19 Others, though, are a little less thoughtful and have used this in a way that I don't think advanced the larger call that I think you you and I are calling for.

Speaker 19 And that's just finding our common humanity and try to unify with, as you suggest, common sense.

Speaker 20 Yeah. And the sad thing is, I think

Speaker 20 it's kind of identity politics. If you don't agree with everything,

Speaker 20 you're immediately labeled transphobic. And I think they lose some very strong advocates.
by throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Speaker 19 Well, and I'd be in that category. And anyone who suggests that,

Speaker 19 that is, they don't know

Speaker 19 who I am, what I've done. And so I'm very sensitive to the point you just made.
And I certainly appreciate it.

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Speaker 19 Just on the issues, broader issues that I think just in the spirit of this conversation.

Speaker 19 You know, when you wrote this book, We've Got Issues, what was, was this, was this sort of the gateway to the new media

Speaker 19 company? Was this sort of the transition book?

Speaker 19 I mean,

Speaker 19 you haven't transitioned on your passion for family as sort of the core unit

Speaker 19 in faith as well, which I appreciate your commitment to faith, including your new role under the Trump administration. Just tell us a little bit more in the spirit of that book,

Speaker 19 what you're trying to achieve.

Speaker 20 You know,

Speaker 20 I've always thought, you know, it's funny

Speaker 20 they talk about the general category of talk show. And

Speaker 20 it's really interesting that

Speaker 20 if you're going to be successful, they really should probably call it listening show,

Speaker 20 because if you don't listen to your audience, and let them tell you

Speaker 20 what you need to focus on, you're not going to last very long. And we always refer to Hollywood as a 13-week town.

Speaker 20 And if you get 13 weeks in Hollywood, you're lucky.

Speaker 20 And

Speaker 20 I was on for 21 years, and they wanted me to renew for three more when I said, no, I'm going to go do my own thing.

Speaker 20 And

Speaker 20 there was a difference because across those 21 years,

Speaker 20 very unusually,

Speaker 20 I owned my own show, which as you probably know, that's very rare in Hollywood. The network likes to own the show.

Speaker 20 But I owned my own show. So I did 3,800 shows and I owned them lock, stock, and barrel.

Speaker 20 So that whole library is

Speaker 20 something I own. And most of those shows are pretty evergreen.
And

Speaker 20 across time,

Speaker 20 I had a great staff. And for the whole 21 years, I had

Speaker 20 one executive producer.

Speaker 20 I had

Speaker 20 five supervising producers that were there

Speaker 20 pretty much the whole time. I had the same seven cameramen for 21 years.

Speaker 20 I've had the same secretary, or they changed what they call them across the years. She's been with me 45 years.
So, I mean, I've had the same team around me. I'm so blessed

Speaker 20 to have them. And

Speaker 20 things change, Governor. Think about this.
I started in 02,

Speaker 20 and the first text message had never been sent when I started.

Speaker 20 And think how much things have changed. And like 08, 09

Speaker 20 is when they started dropping smartphones on all of us. And I think that's the biggest change in our civilization since the Industrial Revolution.

Speaker 20 And I know there were kind of four Industrial Revolutions kind of jammed together there, but I think this was the biggest change since mechanization.

Speaker 19 And by the way, just speaking of jammed together, I remember being jammed together right there at the Moscone Center in San Francisco in January of 2007 when Steve Jobs comes out with some damn device.

Speaker 19 Little did we know, but what hit, I'll never forget, it wasn't the device. It was that damn app store in July of 2008 that, to your point, changed everything in more ways on more days.

Speaker 20 Well, you know, kids were going through life like this,

Speaker 20 and then all of a sudden they were going through like this.

Speaker 20 And

Speaker 20 I

Speaker 20 and we listened, and for example,

Speaker 20 the words cyber and bully had never been used together in the same sentence because there was no such thing. And then all of a sudden, I had to start dealing with cyberbullying.

Speaker 20 And in fact, I went to Capitol Hill. They asked me to come testify on reauthorization of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act.

Speaker 20 And a lot of my testimony was about.

Speaker 20 You have to start allocating some funds to dealing with cyberbullying because it's become bullies used to be in the lunchroom or the gym or the bus docks, but now these bullies follow the children home.

Speaker 20 They can't get away from it. And

Speaker 20 we have to start educating our teachers and

Speaker 20 start

Speaker 20 making preparations to deal with this because kids are killing themselves and and online predators are getting to our children. And so

Speaker 20 it started evolving and changing. And

Speaker 20 I had to evolve and change with it. And I remember the first interview I ever gave about the Dr.
Phil show, Roger King, who was the biggest force in syndication.

Speaker 20 He asked me one day without giving me any warning, he was going to make a sizzle reel to go out and sell the show.

Speaker 20 And he said, okay, Doc, what's the show going to be about?

Speaker 20 And I'm like, oh, a little

Speaker 20 caught short. And I remember saying,

Speaker 20 I'm going to talk about things that matter to people who care.

Speaker 20 And I want to deliver common sense, usable information to people's homes every day for free.

Speaker 19 Hard to argue with that.

Speaker 20 If that doesn't work, then I was busy

Speaker 20 when you called me.

Speaker 20 And

Speaker 20 I've followed that formula all along. And

Speaker 20 when I sat down to write

Speaker 20 We've Got Issues,

Speaker 20 it was in reaction to hearing my audience move. I think that's my 11th book or 10th book.

Speaker 20 I said I was going to write another book and then I wrote that one.

Speaker 20 And it was from listening to them and they were becoming much more socially conscious

Speaker 20 uh whereas you know early on i was focusing on marriage and family and individual psychological functioning and

Speaker 20 all of those sorts of individual issues but i i saw it change to

Speaker 20 start to include things like cyberbullying and predators and online scams and

Speaker 20 things like that. And then of late, I saw them start to

Speaker 20 really become much more socially conscious about psychosocial issues. And I think it's because they were on the internet all the time.

Speaker 20 They were reading things that, you know, eight, nine years earlier, they just weren't available to read.

Speaker 20 And that's when I say I started being aware that, like,

Speaker 20 some,

Speaker 20 let's say, you had some crazy conspiracy theory some guy in omaha or something well that wouldn't spread very far because he didn't have the ability to reach anyone but it's estimated right now that there are between five and ten thousand cults active in the united states of america

Speaker 20 because they operate online yeah they solicit money online they get followers online then they might have an annual meeting and recruit people in the real world to come to some compound or whatever.

Speaker 20 And so I started seeing how people were concerned about what was going on at school

Speaker 20 and

Speaker 20 what was being taught at school. Was critical race theory being taught? Should it be taught?

Speaker 20 Should parents be notified if their children uh were wanting to change their pronouns. And

Speaker 20 there were pros and cons about that um i think parents know their kids the best and deserve to know what's going on with them uh

Speaker 20 but people react to that like there's this massive movement in the schools uh to recruit people

Speaker 20 children into

Speaker 20 transgenderism That's just not true.

Speaker 20 It is a minuscule number of cases in which that's happening and they talk like this huge recruitment.

Speaker 20 It isn't true. I do think parents should be involved

Speaker 20 and

Speaker 20 those on the other side of the issue say, well, there are a lot of parents who don't react well to that. And so the kids can get kicked to the curb or whatever if they take that home.

Speaker 20 Well, that's why we have the Department of Child and Family Services. That's why we have

Speaker 20 these social services to support that. If they got some mouth breather parent who doesn't stand by their child

Speaker 20 or

Speaker 20 whatever.

Speaker 20 So there are two sides to the issue. I get that, but they weren't talking about these things before.

Speaker 20 And now they were. And that's what moved me to

Speaker 20 um we've got issues we've got issues in what's going on in the school we've got issues um regarding our economy and people talk about we have this inequality of income i think the problem is we have a quality of income um if you look at all the giveaway programs and i i hear people talking about they want a quality of outcome versus the quality of opportunity.

Speaker 19 Yeah.

Speaker 20 No. Those are things I'm careful.

Speaker 19 You can count me out on the outcome side. Yeah, no, it's about the opportunity.
We could talk about some of the tax breaks as well,

Speaker 19 some of the carrying interest on those subsidies as well.

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Speaker 3 Take 30% off Lancome and Touchland fragrances and body mists.

Speaker 10 With new offers dropping every week, our associates can help you find the perfect gifts.

Speaker 11 Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop our early Black Friday event, Ulta Beauty.

Speaker 7 Gifting happens here.

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Speaker 17 Like a gift run that turns into a disco snow globe, throw pillows, and PJs for the whole family, dog included.

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Speaker 19 Look, there's so much, Doctor, to talk about. And I appreciate the spirit to which you've engaged with me and our audience.

Speaker 19 And one of the things I loved about your book, which I did have a chance to read, but more importantly, there's a lot of good life lessons in there. And

Speaker 19 one of those statements that you made in the book that sort of spoke to me is be who you are on purpose, which is a good way. to describe you, this notion of intentionality.

Speaker 19 But I think that's an important life lesson is to be authentic, learn from, don't follow others,

Speaker 19 have some humility and grace, but stand your ground, but also recognize we need to find common ground. And I hope we found a little of it today.

Speaker 19 And I appreciate your efforts to try to find more of that with Merit Street Media.

Speaker 20 Well, I appreciate having the opportunity to talk about these things. I think,

Speaker 20 like I say, you and I might be on the different side of certain issues and the same side on certain issues.

Speaker 20 But I think if people could sit down and have civil conversations like this, I mean, that's what it's all about to me. I think it's important to do.
And I'm glad you're doing this podcast.

Speaker 20 I think people get to hear from you and get to know you better. And I think it's...

Speaker 20 I think people are interested in doing that and in knowing you. And I think it's a courageous thing to do because

Speaker 20 when you open up an an unscripted conversation like this,

Speaker 20 that's a courageous thing to do. It's not campaign speak.

Speaker 20 It's just letting people get to know you. And you dodged my question.
Are you going to run in 2018?

Speaker 19 That's fate will determine that.

Speaker 19 But we'll see, Doctor.

Speaker 19 As you know better than anybody, as a former California residence, I got my hand full in the next year and a half, couple couple years.

Speaker 20 You're not ruling it out.

Speaker 19 I don't. I mean, you're not ruling anything out about your future either.
So we'll leave it at that.

Speaker 19 I appreciate you spending time. And I'm very grateful,

Speaker 19 particularly considering where the heck you are and all the other folks

Speaker 19 that are buying for your time and attention. So thank you.

Speaker 20 Anytime, anytime I can spend time with you,

Speaker 20 I'm proud to do it, honored to do it and uh

Speaker 20 uh i'll be inviting you to be on my podcast soon and we'll talk about that and uh and have you weigh in on some uh some big issues and uh i hope we can do i hope we can do this again and do it soon i look forward to it thank you so much governor thank you best to you

Speaker 4 No, it's not too soon to start holiday shopping.

Speaker 6 Ulta Beauty's early Black Friday event is happening now through November 22nd.

Speaker 7 Shop $10 beauty minis from brands like Mac and Too Faced.

Speaker 3 Take 30% off Lancome and Touchlin fragrances and body mists.

Speaker 10 With new offers dropping every week, our associates can help you find the perfect gifts.

Speaker 11 Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop our early Black Friday event, Ulta Beauty.

Speaker 7 Gifting happens here.

Speaker 1 Skip the stress and shop up to 30% off site-wide during Pura's Black Friday sale.

Speaker 1 Enjoy exclusive discounts on premium, long-lasting single fragrances,

Speaker 1 curated gift sets for everyone on your list, and sleek modern diffusers for home and car.

Speaker 1 Spend less time shopping, more time enjoying.

Speaker 5 Get set for gifting season only at Pura.com.

Speaker 14 Homes.com knows having the right agent can make or break your home search.

Speaker 14 That's why they provide home shoppers with an agent directory that gives you a detailed look at each agent's experience, like the number of clothes sales in a specific neighborhood, average price range, and more.

Speaker 14 It lets you easily connect with all the agents in the area you're searching so you can find the right agent with the right experience and ultimately the right home for you.

Speaker 14 Homes.com, we've done your homework.

Speaker 23 The ocean moves us. Whether that's surfing a wave or taking in an inspiring view, the ocean feeds us.
Sustainable seafood practices bring the ocean's bounty to our plates.

Speaker 23 The ocean teaches us how our everyday choices, big and small, make an impact. The ocean delights us as playful otters restore coastal kelp forests.
The ocean connects us.

Speaker 23 Find your connection at Monterey BayAquarium.org slash connects.

Speaker 22 Want Black Friday prices without the crowds? Lowe's gets it. Shop their early Black Friday deals and beat the rush.

Speaker 22 $99 is all you need to grab a select seven-foot pre-lit artificial Christmas tree for the holidays. And don't sweat what gifts to get, Dad.

Speaker 22 They have up to 40% off select tools and accessories going on now. That's how Lowe's celebrates Black Friday early.
Selection varies by location while supplies last.

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.