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Speaker 15 This is Gavin Newsom.

Speaker 15 And this is Dr. Phil McGraw.

Speaker 15 Well, I appreciate you coming on, Dr. Phil.
And

Speaker 15 I've been eager to have this conversation because I've been watching a number of your conversations. You've been having some very public conversations, but also just in the media.

Speaker 15 And obviously, now with your own new Merit Street media enterprise, it's really interesting to read the punditry and try to read between the lines. What's Dr.
Phil up to?

Speaker 15 Is this a big shift to the right? Or is he just self-actualizing a little bit more in terms of his personal points of view?

Speaker 15 Or is it completely consistent with the person we watched for 21 years on daytime TV?

Speaker 15 What's your overall sentiment around the independent analysis and punditry about all things Dr. Phil right now?

Speaker 16 Well, you know, Governor, I'm glad you asked that question because I have to say, I'm probably the

Speaker 16 least political person I know, although I have certainly been painted with that brush

Speaker 16 of late and not completely

Speaker 16 hard to understand.

Speaker 16 And I say that I'm not political

Speaker 16 because I deal with cultural issues, psychosocial issues.

Speaker 16 And

Speaker 16 I differentiate that from politics because,

Speaker 16 frankly, I'm not very sophisticated in the political arena. I don't know a lot about it.

Speaker 16 You know, I can watch that after school special about how

Speaker 16 a bill becomes a law and all of that. And I learn something every time I watch it again.
And I'm not,

Speaker 16 I'm not. that's not false humility.

Speaker 16 I really don't

Speaker 16 understand politics. I certainly don't understand geopolitics

Speaker 16 on the international stage.

Speaker 16 And I really don't seek to.

Speaker 16 I really am focusing on cultural issues. And politicians talk about cultural issues a lot.
And so that creates an intersection.

Speaker 16 of

Speaker 16 content and values. And to me, when I'm focusing on those issues, those values,

Speaker 16 I could care less whether somebody is a Democrat or a Republican.

Speaker 16 I'm not sure there's a whole lot of difference when we really boil it down

Speaker 16 to where people really stand.

Speaker 16 I don't think we're nearly as divided

Speaker 16 as I think the legacy media would lead us to believe we are.

Speaker 16 And so really,

Speaker 16 I'm of a strong belief that the strength of any culture, any society lies in the family. And I think family and family values have been under attack

Speaker 16 in America. I wrote a book in 2004 called Family First.

Speaker 16 And I said in that book that I thought family in America was under attack.

Speaker 16 And I certainly think family values have been increasingly under attack. And

Speaker 16 admittedly, a lot of that attack, I think, is coming from the

Speaker 16 extreme left, from

Speaker 16 what I think are the

Speaker 16 what I call the tyranny of the fringe.

Speaker 16 It's not really mainstream America on either side of the aisle. I think it's

Speaker 16 from

Speaker 16 really extreme activists.

Speaker 16 And I don't think they really represent

Speaker 16 the mainstream on either side of the aisle. So

Speaker 16 I think we've got the tail wagging the dog on a lot of these cultural issues, to tell you the truth.

Speaker 15 I appreciate it. And I want to go back to

Speaker 15 your consistency on

Speaker 15 the notion of family and the challenges there. And I'm curious, just over the last

Speaker 15 few decades, I imagine people tried to pull you in 20 years ago, pull you into their campaigns, pull you into their rallies, pull you into their point of view.

Speaker 15 You know,

Speaker 15 were you tempted 10 years ago

Speaker 15 to find your way into this, or have you really always tried to sort of maintain a status above and sort of separate and above?

Speaker 16 I've always tried to stay out of it.

Speaker 16 You know, people made a lot of it when I

Speaker 16 went to the Trump rally at Madison Square Garden, you know, this time time around. But if

Speaker 16 people listen to what I said,

Speaker 16 I started my comments and remarks during that

Speaker 16 appearance by saying,

Speaker 16 I'm not here to endorse President Trump. I don't agree with everything he says or everything he does.

Speaker 16 I said the first things out of my mouth. If you go back and listen to what I said is I'm not here to endorse him.

Speaker 16 I don't agree agree with everything he says and does um what i don't like is people bullying those and ostracizing those

Speaker 16 who do support and say they're going to vote for him and i said i'll give the this identical speech uh at a harris rally um and volunteered to do so.

Speaker 16 And they actually contacted me and talked to me about doing exactly that.

Speaker 16 And I said, absolutely.

Speaker 16 let me know when let me know where uh gave them all the contact information to set it up and then they didn't follow up on it after that but i i wanted to speak at that uh one of those events as well um

Speaker 16 i i think we need

Speaker 16 uh to talk to each other i think we need

Speaker 16 a dialogue that we're not having. And if we stay in our bubble, I don't think we're ever going to get

Speaker 16 a unity in this country. And

Speaker 15 I appreciate that. I will say, having listened to the speech, I don't think you would have referred to Kamala as a tough old boot.
No, I wouldn't have done that.

Speaker 16 I would have changed that line for sure.

Speaker 15 There'd be a few lines. By the way,

Speaker 15 was it the president himself that reached out directly to you to get you to speak at that rally, or was it members of the campaign team? Were they aggressively seeking your participation?

Speaker 16 They were. were.
And, you know, I had already interviewed President Trump, and I've known him for 20 years.

Speaker 16 I haven't spent a lot of time with him, but I've known him for a long time.

Speaker 16 And

Speaker 16 I'd interviewed him for my show in the past and had known him, like I say, not well, but had known him personally away from television and away from all that.

Speaker 16 But his team asked me to come and interview him uh and i i had asked to interview him when he was during uh running his campaign and he agreed and then they asked me to make an appearance uh there and uh i said i would but uh I'll decide what I say and it will probably be different from what you hear from everybody else.

Speaker 16 And

Speaker 16 they said that's okay. They agreed.

Speaker 15 No, well, that's, I mean, it's, it's, you know, the answer is no unless you ask. And so I certainly appreciate

Speaker 15 the fact that they were able to diversify the number of voices that were participating in not only those rallies, but, you know, some a little more toxic than others, including at that rally, sort of infamously.

Speaker 15 But so.

Speaker 16 So how about you? Are you going to run in 28?

Speaker 15 Well, you're just, you're jumping right into that. I want to jump first, though, into what you just launched, which was Merritt Street Media.
And so after 21 ridiculously successful years

Speaker 15 running your own show, you decided to move and did this pivot. And you did it as well, writing a book that goes to a lot of the issues that you're raising,

Speaker 15 including on the issue of family called We've Got Issues.

Speaker 15 But tell us a little bit more, because I'm not sure everybody is fully familiar with this larger media company, not just sort of the work you're doing as a host yourself, but what you're trying to achieve in Merit Street.

Speaker 16 Well,

Speaker 16 I did spend 21 years

Speaker 16 at CBS, and I have to say it

Speaker 16 was a wonderful experience.

Speaker 16 And

Speaker 16 I made wonderful relationships at CBS.

Speaker 16 They'll forever be

Speaker 16 a warm place in my heart and

Speaker 16 got nothing but good things to say

Speaker 16 about my experience there.

Speaker 16 I was

Speaker 16 led their daytime lineup.

Speaker 16 Of course, it was syndicated, so they weren't all CBS stations, but that was my primary station group.

Speaker 16 I had

Speaker 16 great

Speaker 16 primetime shows on CBS as well, and are working on some with them now.

Speaker 16 We're still in business together.

Speaker 16 But

Speaker 16 I wanted to do

Speaker 16 more than that.

Speaker 16 I felt like

Speaker 16 an hour a day

Speaker 16 was not enough time to really do the things that I felt like I wanted to do

Speaker 16 because I was not comfortable and was very troubled by a lot of what I was seeing going on in this country.

Speaker 16 I'll tell you a story. I was sitting in our kitchen in California where we were living at the time, and I was flipping back and forth.

Speaker 16 Robin and I were sitting there having dinner, and we were kind of flipping back and forth and going from one kind of news channel to another news channel to another news channel.

Speaker 16 And I was really frustrated by saying, you know, this is so much

Speaker 16 propaganda, so much spin.

Speaker 16 You can't really tell.

Speaker 16 You'd be on one channel and flip to another, and they're talking about the same events or incidents and you can't even tell they're talking about the same thing

Speaker 16 uh because they're spending it so much yep and i said you know this this this just drives me crazy the media is driving me crazy why won't they just tell you what happened and without even looking up from dinner she said well why don't you do something about it you are the media and she said your ratings are bigger than both of them combined why don't you do something about it And

Speaker 16 that was really the genesis of it, because

Speaker 16 I wanted to own the debate lane in America. I wanted to have a platform where I could bring two sides together, or three sides, or four sides,

Speaker 16 if necessary,

Speaker 16 to give people the facts and let them make up their own mind. And you know, because it's such a big issue in California, homelessness, for example,

Speaker 16 There are more than two sides to homelessness.

Speaker 16 People have different theories about how to resolve this.

Speaker 16 Why is

Speaker 16 housing so expensive? Do you do home first?

Speaker 16 Or do you work on getting people back on their feet and they earn their right?

Speaker 16 uh to be given uh housing and shelter or is that a fundamental human right

Speaker 16 um you know there are different sides to those issues. You think, well, you know, how could you be debating over that? But there are hugely passionate,

Speaker 16 different sides on even that issue. And

Speaker 16 I do give both sides a chance to talk about that. And we have great and intelligent decisions.
You know, right now, this Israeli-Palestinian conflict,

Speaker 16 I've taken very bold positions on that.

Speaker 16 And

Speaker 16 it is astounding to me. I am hearing things

Speaker 16 on our college campuses that I never thought I would hear in my lifetime. The anti-Semitism that I'm hearing.
And I have given a platform to,

Speaker 16 at one time it was pro-Palestinian, now it's pro-Hamas. It's just straight up demonstrations in favor of a terrorist group that has killed 48 Americans since its formation in the early 1980s.

Speaker 16 And I find that difficult to

Speaker 16 understand how we have young American students

Speaker 16 protesting for Hamas, which is a terrorist group that has killed Americans and until recently was holding American hostages.

Speaker 16 They still have four that are not alive, but the last American hostage was just released in Hidan Alexander.

Speaker 16 And I spoke with his parents the next morning on the air and had a wonderful celebratory interview with them.

Speaker 16 And I'm hearing things on these campuses that tell me that we're just not teaching critical thinking among our young people anymore. And that's very troubling to me.

Speaker 16 So, and I've given a voice to those and been criticized for giving a voice to the pro-Palestinian, pro-Hamas side.

Speaker 16 But I think people need to hear what they think and how committed they are and how misguided I believe they are.

Speaker 16 But I do give them a voice so people understand what we're up against.

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Speaker 15 Not that I stress tested what you've been saying along these lines, not specific to the conflict in the Middle East, but more broadly about trying to find a lane of a little bit more balance.

Speaker 15 I watched specifically your 100-day analysis of the Trump administration, and I thought it was extraordinarily fair.

Speaker 15 You made some points that were, you know, were very not revelatory to me, but I thought important to make, particularly on the issue of immigration, of which you've received criticism.

Speaker 15 At the same time, you're hardly anti-immigrant, but you made a point on that 100-day show that I think underscores. the point you're trying to make.

Speaker 15 And that is what is omitted often in our discourse, particularly in some of these platforms and these cable shows, is the fact that the Biden administration was deporting, has been, at least through a period that marked, I think, around February, more people being deported on the Biden administration than even the Trump administration.

Speaker 15 Not something you see necessarily on

Speaker 15 some of these cable shows, in order to sort of highlight and reinforce the importance. of not just misinformation or disinformation, but what is omitted from our conversation.

Speaker 16 No, we're listening. We're embedded with

Speaker 16 ICE, and they've allowed us full access at Merit TV. And let me tell you, when I say full access,

Speaker 16 there are no guidelines. Now,

Speaker 16 to be completely fair, there are some rules in terms of not disclosing certain investigatory techniques that they have. But other than not disclosing things that might put agents' lives in danger,

Speaker 16 there are no rules. We can show every case.

Speaker 16 They're not cherry-picked cases,

Speaker 16 and we're able to show everything that is going on. And I just watched the mischaracterization.
And I've come to know Tom Holman very well. This is a very

Speaker 16 sincere and compassionate man. And they have three primary goals.
Number one is the worst first.

Speaker 16 They talk about

Speaker 16 these cable networks talk about they're going in and sweeping neighborhoods and

Speaker 16 kind of anybody with a tan is subject to getting picked up. That is absolutely not true.

Speaker 16 I have seen that they are going after the worst first, that they build a file, they know where these people are, they know what they're guilty of doing, and they target them. These are targeted

Speaker 16 arrest warrants that they're executing and taking these people out.

Speaker 16 So that's their number one goal. They wanted to close the border.
They've effectively done that. And then number three is to find the missing children

Speaker 16 because there are hundreds of thousands of children that have gone missing. Many

Speaker 16 are known

Speaker 16 to be sold into the sex trade or the forced labor trade. And those children need to be rescued.
Now, some of them have found their way to family that is already here, but I fear there are

Speaker 16 probably a couple of hundred thousand that are being forced into lives that are horrendous and that they don't want to be in. And those are their three primary objectives.

Speaker 16 And I hear these, they're just outright misinformation about what they're doing.

Speaker 16 And if you've seen interviews I've done with Tom Holman, I ask him straight up, are you raiding schools and taking children out of school so they can be deported?

Speaker 16 Are you sitting on doctors' offices and hospitals to catch these people when they go to get health care? Or are you going after the worst first?

Speaker 16 uh i ask the hard questions and they give me straight up answers and the support for those answers i'm I'm very pro-immigration. Look, our birth rate has dropped below

Speaker 16 what we need infrastructure-wise to

Speaker 16 sustain our infrastructure here. We need a birth rate of 2.1, and we've dropped to a little below 1.6.
We better get immigrants into this country.

Speaker 16 We need the talent. We need

Speaker 16 the diversity. We need the headcount and the birth rate.

Speaker 16 We desperately need immigrants in this country, but there's a right way and a wrong way to do it.

Speaker 16 I look at America as my home, and I wouldn't let anybody into my house if I didn't know who they were, would you?

Speaker 16 I don't think anybody would, but we've done that. We've let millions of people into this country without knowing who they are.

Speaker 16 And clearly, some of those are on a terror watch list, and they're here now.

Speaker 15 And

Speaker 15 I think everything you said, Dr. Phil,

Speaker 15 I think the vast majority of people would find particularly rational. But you have to acknowledge, and I don't say this lightly, I say this with intimate familiarity.

Speaker 15 I mean, we've had quote-unquote wellness checks in the public schools. We've had some folks that are going to immigration courts that are being picked up in and around immigration courts.

Speaker 15 There's been a chilling impact across the country, not just in states like California, but a lot of day laborers picked up in California.

Speaker 15 We had a federal judge intervene under a lawsuit and actually admonished

Speaker 15 some of the Border Patrol for their activities in respect to that or ICE.

Speaker 15 But

Speaker 15 I do appreciate there's an intensity of anxiety and a lot of rhetoric that is thrown around that is not nuanced.

Speaker 15 And I don't know that the president himself is aiding and abetting in finding some common ground here.

Speaker 15 He uses some pretty extreme language, which I think kind of chills the conversation and chills, I think, our capacity to sort of find some common ground on legitimate concerns around border security and thoughtful and comprehensive strategies to get the best and the brightest from around the world.

Speaker 16 Well, I think there's a right way and a wrong way to get into the country. And

Speaker 16 I don't think these people are being picked up that are here legally.

Speaker 16 And if they are here legally,

Speaker 16 then they don't have anything to worry about. If they came in illegally, not at a point of entry,

Speaker 16 then they are subject to being removed. That in and of itself is a crime, is it not?

Speaker 15 No, and I'm not denying that. But you asked, I mean, and again, I'm not looking to get in debate about immigration policy.

Speaker 15 I'm just seeing some nuance in terms of the language, and I think some of the rhetoric and the reality on the ground is someone that is on the ground addressing some of that reality.

Speaker 15 It's not just the worst first.

Speaker 15 It may be, that may be the policy, but that's not necessarily the practice.

Speaker 15 As it relates to those that are here without documentation, I mean, you know, you've got folks from Newt Gingrich that was supporting amnesty in 1985, Reagan himself that did the amnesty bill shortly thereafter.

Speaker 15 And

Speaker 15 obviously, we've got to address those that have been here for decades. I don't imagine we want to get all of them

Speaker 15 because they're quote unhere illegally and send them and deport them all back. I do not imagine you're arguing for that.

Speaker 16 Well, but here's the thing: if, if,

Speaker 16 Let me argue another side of this.

Speaker 16 We've got an immigration court that is horribly dysfunctional.

Speaker 16 Takes seven, eight years

Speaker 16 court date. And that is a broken system.
We need to fix that.

Speaker 15 100%.

Speaker 16 When you've got somebody that...

Speaker 16 maybe they have a legitimate reason, a compelling reason to get out of their home country for safety reasons, for fear of

Speaker 16 violence from gangs or whatever. And so they make application to get to the United States and we say, great, you know,

Speaker 16 here's a court date

Speaker 16 in 2032.

Speaker 16 Well, I'm sorry, I got people coming by my house threatening to cut off my arms and legs on a daily basis. 2032 doesn't really work for me.
We've got to fix that. I 100% acknowledge that.

Speaker 16 On the other hand, if we've got people that are here illegally, they're either here legally or they're not here legally.

Speaker 16 And so we have to take some ownership in the fact that we've got a broken system for getting process into this country.

Speaker 16 Doesn't change the fact that we have people that are here illegally. And most of them are not fleeing.
They're here fleeing violence. They're here for economic reasons.

Speaker 16 And this is the greatest country in the world. Of course,

Speaker 16 if I was in El Salvador or somewhere and had a dirt floor and pennies a day for wages, would I want to be in America? Of course I would want to be in America.

Speaker 16 We've got to do some things on our end to make this more functional.

Speaker 15 I agree with that.

Speaker 16 And

Speaker 16 I hate.

Speaker 16 these sanctuary guidelines where they will not cooperate with ICE agents to get someone that is currently in custody, which means they've broken the law and local law enforcement has had reason to pick them up

Speaker 16 and detain them.

Speaker 16 If you tell ICE about that and they can come get them and take them out at that point, you're going to have a whole lot less of the people you're talking about get arrested when they go into the community.

Speaker 16 Then you have one ICE agent on one bad

Speaker 16 and they're gone. If they have to go into the neighborhood, they're going to arrest that person and they're going to check everybody that's around them.
And that's what

Speaker 15 you knew, Dr. Phil, I mean, in California, I can only speak for myself as governor.
We've cooperated in that respect with folks that are in custody in state prisons over 10,000.

Speaker 15 specific examples of that kind of cooperation. So not a lot of daylight on that.

Speaker 15 I guess I'm just more concerned about the larger rhetoric that everyone's here, quote unquote, illegally, which I get on the technical terms, but the notion of what the heck we do about it.

Speaker 15 I agree with you on comprehensive need for comprehensive reforms. I think the asylum system is broken.
There's been all kinds of bills rejected by both parties to address this issue.

Speaker 15 There was a bipartisan immigration package that Rubio himself, among many others, supported to deal with immigration backlogs and judges and address some of those concerns.

Speaker 15 But they seem to get just watered down or eliminated because of the toxicity of our politics.

Speaker 15 And that's my concern now: how the hell do we soften that edge, which I think you want, so we can find unity and common ground and unify the country, which you talk a lot about.

Speaker 15 But how do we begin to do that in a more rational way? I mean, I think rhetoric still matters, does it not?

Speaker 16 Words are powerful.

Speaker 15 Yeah.

Speaker 16 Words are absolutely powerful. And

Speaker 16 when I see things happening,

Speaker 16 and

Speaker 16 I see it a lot with the death threats and hate speech and rhetoric that I get when I come out

Speaker 16 and condemn what happened on October 7th in Israel.

Speaker 15 And by the way, just for the record, I flew to Israel right after the 7th and met with leadership. We actually brought a hospital, a field hospital with us.
So I appreciate that condemnation.

Speaker 15 I want to make that clear.

Speaker 16 Well, I know you made that trip and I was so glad to see you do that. I spent 21 years in California and I was proud to see you take the initiative to do that because you didn't have to do that.

Speaker 16 And

Speaker 16 when

Speaker 16 I say words are powerful and

Speaker 16 but thank you for doing that.

Speaker 16 I didn't finish my sentence. Thank you for doing that.

Speaker 16 I think the rhetoric has gotten way out of control.

Speaker 16 When you shoot

Speaker 16 two people

Speaker 16 on the street in Washington, D.C., outside

Speaker 16 a museum,

Speaker 16 Milgram, the young woman,

Speaker 16 she grew up in Overland Park, Kansas. I mean, this is not an activist that

Speaker 16 is really out driving the story here.

Speaker 16 And

Speaker 16 the young man

Speaker 16 was an Israeli Christian,

Speaker 16 for God's sakes. And they kill these two people

Speaker 16 and then start yelling, free Palestine, free Palestine.

Speaker 16 Can I say that

Speaker 16 those shootings were due to

Speaker 16 out of control and fiery rhetoric? I have no proof for that.

Speaker 16 And and i don't make claims if i don't have empirical evidence to support it but common sense suggests that that

Speaker 16 this kind of rhetoric that that people that maybe were deranged to begin with marginalized to begin with looking for a cause celebrate

Speaker 16 uh this same individual was uh active with BLM before this. So, you know, was that the cause at the time? Now, this is the bandwagon that he's jumping on.

Speaker 16 It just makes it easy for people to get involved in. And we've got to tone down the rhetoric.
And when you see Harvard and UPenn and Columbia University,

Speaker 16 the leadership there

Speaker 16 not only

Speaker 16 condoning,

Speaker 16 but in

Speaker 16 some ways, I think enabling and empowering this,

Speaker 16 I think we've lost our way.

Speaker 15 I mean,

Speaker 16 these people, these young people, I think, are being agitated from the outside

Speaker 16 as well as

Speaker 16 the inside. And this isn't free speech, Governor.

Speaker 16 This has gone beyond that.

Speaker 16 I was on the UCLA campus when they took down the encampment there. I talked to those protesters there.

Speaker 16 And was there hate speech? Yes, but it was still speech. But I also saw them surrounding

Speaker 16 Jewish students and not allowing them to move across campus. Some were assaulted.
They occupied and defected and vandalized buildings.

Speaker 15 And by the way, Dr. Phil, just for the record.

Speaker 15 Out of so much frustration, we had to send the California Highway Patrol in because they were not enforcing these laws and they were not protecting those students.

Speaker 15 So we were very critical and I appreciate your critique of what was happening on the UCLI campus. You're absolutely spot on.

Speaker 16 Well, we were with law enforcement as they were staging

Speaker 16 to go in and take them down. And I will say this about all of the law enforcement agencies that were doing this.

Speaker 16 I was speaking with them moments, you know, they were staging.

Speaker 16 a couple of miles away from the campus and they had their buses there and all the troops there and we were speaking to leadership over there at 2 30 three o'clock in the morning that was i was trust me i was up at 2 33 in the morning when we finally pulled uh the orders yeah i was asking them

Speaker 16 tell me what your plan is and what your number one objective is and there was nobody there but us and they they allowed uh me to be there because they know how pro law enforcement I am, how much I support their sacrifices that they make to keep the rest of us safe.

Speaker 16 And every single one of them, and I talked to them individually, you know, 40, 50 yards away from each other, they all said the same thing.

Speaker 16 Our number one objective is that everybody gets home safe tonight. UCLA students, the protesters, all of our officers,

Speaker 16 even these protesters that were hurling these insults at them and calling them every name in the book, their number one objective was that those people get home safe.

Speaker 16 They weren't, oh, well, we're going to win in there and kick some ass. No, no, no.

Speaker 16 They said with great sincerity, we just want everybody to get home safe tonight. You know, tomorrow's another day.
Let's get everybody home safe tonight. And I said, will that happen?

Speaker 16 They said, well, that depends on them. If they follow our directions,

Speaker 16 then they'll get home safe tonight. The second worst thing is we'll detain them and sight them, and

Speaker 16 then they'll get home safe. But we want everybody to get home safe tonight.
And I had such great respect

Speaker 16 for them that there's number one, even the protesters, they absolutely wanted them to get home safe.

Speaker 15 Yeah, I know, and they did a really admirable job that night. And while there was a few modest incidences,

Speaker 15 they conducted themselves extraordinarily well in terms of how they reacted to those incidents. It only reinforced their stewardship.

Speaker 15 And not just on the UCLA campus, on many other campuses, not just in California, of course, all across this country.

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Speaker 15 One of the things that, you know, I think it's the conversation we're having here around how you work through these things and how we work through our differences and how we find commonality.

Speaker 15 You began with, you opened up by saying you don't think our politics is,

Speaker 15 you think, you know, mainstream media sort of, you know,

Speaker 15 sort of exacerbates the conditions, this divisions,

Speaker 15 that we're not as far apart as we may appear.

Speaker 15 Tell me a little bit more about what your thinking is in that respect.

Speaker 15 You mean that more broadly about sort of universal values of being loved and need to be loved, being protected, connected, respected?

Speaker 15 Or do you mean that on issues like immigration, issues like human rights and social justice, or on what topics?

Speaker 16 Look, conflict sells tickets.

Speaker 16 You know, if you're doing the news

Speaker 16 and your lead headline is: Today at 3rd and Elm, nothing happened.

Speaker 16 That just doesn't sell tickets, right? But if you can say,

Speaker 16 Today at Third and Elm, chaos broke out,

Speaker 16 throw to the video.

Speaker 16 Now everybody turns around and looks. And that's just kind of how we have

Speaker 16 been shaped and fashioned into

Speaker 16 following the news. But the truth of the matter is,

Speaker 16 I believe anytime I'm negotiating with somebody, the first thing I do is say, look, we've got differences. I agree with that.
I think you and I have some differences in the way we look at things.

Speaker 16 But if we were going to try to find some common ground, The first thing I would do is say, you know, Governor, let's first talk about everything we agree about. Yeah.

Speaker 16 Let's Let's talk about the things that we agree about, because

Speaker 16 I think if we do that, we're going to find that we're not near as divided or different

Speaker 16 as we might think we are.

Speaker 16 And

Speaker 16 let's look at it from a broad standpoint.

Speaker 16 If you sit down with the most polarized folks

Speaker 16 and say, let's talk about what we agree about in America, everybody wants

Speaker 16 a safe and healthy country.

Speaker 16 Nobody would disagree with that. Everybody wants to leave a good, green, clean, prosperous country for our children.
Nobody would disagree with that.

Speaker 16 Everybody wants us to have a strong economy. Everybody would agree with that.

Speaker 16 Everybody wants us to be a good leader in the world and set a good example for other countries. Everybody would agree with that.
Now, we might disagree about how

Speaker 16 we go about achieving those things, but everybody would agree with where we're trying to get.

Speaker 16 And I think one of the most

Speaker 16 critical days in this country's history

Speaker 16 was 9-12.

Speaker 16 Not 9-11.

Speaker 16 9-11 was one of the darkest days in our history, of course.

Speaker 16 But on 9-12,

Speaker 16 everybody woke up and we were Americans first.

Speaker 16 There weren't Democrats. There weren't Republicans.
We were all Americans. And I just pray

Speaker 16 that something like that doesn't have to happen again

Speaker 16 for people to remember that, hey, wait a minute, we're all wearing the same color jersey. We may have some differences on issues, but we're all Americans.
And we all love this country. And we all want

Speaker 16 fundamentally

Speaker 16 the same things.

Speaker 16 And if we remember that first,

Speaker 16 then I think we have a foundation to work from, a foundation to build on.

Speaker 16 And,

Speaker 16 you know, I just pray we don't need to be reminded of that

Speaker 16 by being under attack. And

Speaker 16 I think if we do remember that, if we do take that approach and we go, hey, wow, we've really got something here to work on.

Speaker 16 You know,

Speaker 16 people,

Speaker 16 I've followed you for a long long time and

Speaker 16 there are things that, you know, people look at you and you have kind of an affluent image and all.

Speaker 16 People

Speaker 16 don't know that,

Speaker 16 and I learned one of the things that you and I have in common is we both come from pretty poor backgrounds.

Speaker 16 Both had to work real early in our lives and

Speaker 16 shared some common difficult experiences early in life of trying to make it and

Speaker 16 get by and find this job and then that job. And when I learned those things about you several years ago,

Speaker 16 all of a sudden I said, you know,

Speaker 16 I understand how he's gotten where he is because this guy understands hard work and

Speaker 16 putting the time in to get where he's going. And

Speaker 16 my whole opinion changed when I learned some of those things. And there are things that I disagree with you on.

Speaker 16 I disagreed with you on some of the things you did concerning COVID and shutting things down and how long and this, that, and the other.

Speaker 16 But

Speaker 16 I didn't have questions about your intention.

Speaker 16 just

Speaker 16 your choices. And I always knew this was something I could sit down and talk to you about

Speaker 16 because I knew that you knew the value of hard work and what families put in and

Speaker 16 how important it was.

Speaker 16 And I felt like people don't take time to find out who they're talking to, what their history, and what their values are.

Speaker 15 And tune in for our continued conversation with Dr. Phil.

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