Joseph Sikora Joins to Talk Power, Acting With Jerry, Friendship With 50 Cent and Being Tommy Egan

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Speaker 2 Fifth said to me, to know you is to love you. You should have your own show.
You're going to have your own show. But look, when you don't make me money no more, I ain't going to fuck with you.

Speaker 1 All right, welcome to another episode of Throwbacks, everybody. Appreciate you joining us today.
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Speaker 1 you know i feel about this don't be afraid to subscribe hit the subscribe button it costs you nothing it's throwback show on youtube zero what up there

Speaker 1 well first aren't you gonna ask me how it feels to be a champion again how does it feel matt liner to be a champion again it feels great bro

Speaker 1 it feels good did you have any doubts at one point in that crazy game seven oh the whole game i doubted yeah the whole game i doubted ninth inning and miggy rojas up with one out and we're down one.

Speaker 3 Even in the extra innings, I had doubt. But yeah, I mean, obviously, hell of a, hell of a, hell of a series.
I think I, I tweeted it out, but it's got to be the greatest World Series of all time.

Speaker 3 I mean, at least in modern day, like from far as I can remember.

Speaker 3 And some of the moments from both teams and the defensive plays and the eliteness of the athleticism and the elite defense on both sides to me is what stood out.

Speaker 3 Like performances aside, like it was just incredible the Dodgers and all the plays that they made to win that game. Like just every play.

Speaker 1 Like, it's just, it doesn't happen that often. Those are the things that jumped out to me.
Obviously, the Dodgers are loaded with stars.

Speaker 1 And I think the Blue Jays may not, besides Valladi, don't have the stars, but they have a really good top, unbelievable top-to-bottom team.

Speaker 1 But the Dodger almost role player, they just made every single play.

Speaker 3 Well, all the, by the way, yeah, like the players who don't make a lot of money in considering all the other, Rojas, clutch, tommy edmond defense clutch kike hernandez clutch i mean pajes the catch that catch is insane that's the end of the world series if that by the way it was absurd like that guy hit about that hit like 090 in the world series he got benched so all of the guys will smith will smith our catcher arguably i mean caught every single inning like it was just again yeah yamamoto and like all of these guys but bets really didn't show up that much at the plate freddie freeman didn't really show up much at the plate otani

Speaker 3 otani will have a great game and then a bad game at the plate. Like, telling you, man,

Speaker 3 the stars did their job, but it was, it was, it was the, the non-stars, right? The kind of forgotten guys that ended up stepping up and winning a World Series, man. It was freaking.

Speaker 1 Well, was there anybody more in that situation, Matt, when you got, you know, bases loaded or whatever it was, one out, bottom of the inning?

Speaker 1 Like, where did you want that potential ground ball hit to me? It's Betts.

Speaker 1 Like, that was the most, like, hit it to anyone but Mookie Betts, and maybe you could get lucky here and beat out a double play.

Speaker 1 He's the only guy that I knew, like the minute it was hit up the short, I'm like, game over. Before he even caught it, I said, game over.

Speaker 3 I was telling the wife, I'm like, okay, we double play wins. If not, we lose.
Like, this is like, well, and having the one-run lead was obviously huge because you could, you could sacrifice a run, but

Speaker 3 I was like, ground ball, and it's over. And sure enough, a little chopper.
I'm watching with the boys.

Speaker 1 I'm like, no shit. It's going to happen.

Speaker 3 And then he, dude, it was awesome, man.

Speaker 1 So we got a great show. We got a great show for you guys playing.
I'm going to preview that in one second. Last impressions for me, I was left with as far as the World Series going.
You know what?

Speaker 1 Dodgers are now officially in 90s Yankee territory. I'm not trying to make this a Yankees thing, but

Speaker 1 and what I mean by 90s Yankees is like you just have to assume they're going to make the play or get the hit. And it's going to come from anywhere.
It's going to come from Jim Lehritz.

Speaker 1 It's going to come from Andy Pettit with a pickoff move to third, right? They are just this season that they're going into now really will etch them amongst some of the great teams.

Speaker 3 Three titles in six years. I mean, it's in baseball, it's really hard to do.

Speaker 3 They're a dynasty and everybody is back.

Speaker 1 And listen, you're a ratings guy. The ratings were through the roof.
And now everyone on social is like, well, basketball's got a problem. Basketball's always had a problem in the last few years.

Speaker 3 Basketball is hard to watch.

Speaker 3 And I know you're a basketball. I love hoops out of sports.
I love it. But it's like, it's just a hard watch for a lot of different reasons.
And even the NBA playoffs are like, it's just,

Speaker 3 it's just not not a great product, in my opinion. And baseball, baseball, the great thing about baseball and what they've done is, right, the pitch clock.
Hey, let's shorten the games.

Speaker 3 It's too long, right? The three-hour games, no one wants to see it sit through that. So they've done the things, they've tweaked the all-star format.

Speaker 1 Like they continue to do things. All-star game is great.

Speaker 3 All-star game is great. They've continued to do things to adapt to 2025.
The NBA is just the NBA. Like there's the load management issues.
It's just.

Speaker 1 And a lot of threes.

Speaker 1 It's a lot of threes.

Speaker 3 It's a bad product. And the ratings, you know, I'm at Fox, right? And we had the World Series and stuff.

Speaker 1 Congrats, by the way. Fox eating good right now.

Speaker 3 Oh, man. Steak and lobster.
Steak and lobster.

Speaker 3 Toronto, LA, initially not a great ratings boost because Toronto being in Canada and something with the regional networks and stuff, like it doesn't rate. It's just because it's in Canada.

Speaker 3 So like there was that. It's a little above my pay grade.
And obviously LA has a tawny and all that.

Speaker 3 So it's a big market, but it's always like this needs to go six or seven and it went seven and then it had every moment you can imagine like a

Speaker 3 you know home runs walk off home runs go ahead home runs and this and game seven so and then you look i think it was like 25 something million people watch that game like that's that's it's baseball it's incredible so shout out to mlb i'm sad it's over do not strike whatever you do no do not ruin this baseball is in a great spot right now major league League Baseball is in a great spot.

Speaker 3 It was a great year. Those guys go get some rest.
By the way,

Speaker 3 we'll see a March for spring training right around the corner.

Speaker 1 So, you know who else is in a good spot? Well, first and foremost, too, we're going to be joined later with Annie Agar as we do every week. We're going to do Twisted T trivia.

Speaker 1 And I think there might be a twist to it. So I hear.
A twist to the Twisted T trivia.

Speaker 3 Well, I mean, we're doing anything possible to allow you to get on the to get me a W.

Speaker 1 But someone else who's in good position, this is a very close personal friend of mine. You know, we have a lot of athletes on this show, but we also love when we have our actors on.
I am one of them.

Speaker 1 Joe Shakura. If you don't recognize the name Joe Shakura, you should.
You may know him as well as Tommy Egan, a character on Power. I was lucky enough to be on the show, Power, for six seasons.

Speaker 1 And Joe played an unbelievable character on that show. And now to the point where they have a whole universe now.
Power has a universe with lots of spin-offs.

Speaker 1 And Joe stars in the title force, Tommy Egan spin-off spinoff in Chicago.

Speaker 1 He came on to join us and I was flooded with memories because I remember when power came my way, entourage was just starting to end and it was a small part at the time, but it was one of the only times I had a showrunner, Courtney Kemp, who's a close personal friend and in my opinion, one of the best showrunners in town, called me and said, I wrote something for you.

Speaker 1 It's kind of small right now, but trust me, it's going somewhere. Just have the faith.
And you know what? Look, I'll be honest. Didn't pay a lot of money.

Speaker 1 Didn't shoot in L.A., so I had to fly back and forth to New York all the time. But what was on the page was good.
The show was starting to grow. It was 50 cent.

Speaker 1 And then once I started watching the show, I saw Joe and Omari Hardwick. I'm like, these guys are really good actors.
There are a few spoilers. If you haven't.
taken part in the power universe at all.

Speaker 1 There are a few spoilers. I'm just pointing it out there, but it's old by now.
And famously, the Tommy character eliminates, unalives my character.

Speaker 1 Eliminates, like it says on this mug, I'm going to cancel

Speaker 3 guns you down.

Speaker 1 Guns me, it's one and one of your favorite shootouts now.

Speaker 3 It is.

Speaker 3 I've re-watched it like 15 times to see if you've worked on your aim. But

Speaker 3 it's great to see you guys. It was great to see you guys on the screen together.
And again, it's funny, Jerry, because you know, you are

Speaker 3 more turtle to me than a proctor, but it's being around you and knowing the success of that show power and um seeing the people that come up to you and and we've kind of talked about this how you kind of like reinvent yourself in all these characters and these roles like proctor was proctor proctor was a big is a big deal like there's a lot of people that see you only as proctor which is pretty which is pretty cool i have to imagine for you and that's something that i think you know that that we talk about with joe is just um you know these roles that you guys get to play but it was it was great to see you guys back together just shooting the shit telling stories it's great man joe's joe's a and joe's a badass mofo dude yeah and he's had a great career he was in reacher with tom crew i mean god his career is a big true detective ozark great role on ozark

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 and needless to say how i knew power was going to be a big deal matt i was in vegas at summer league and usa basketball and back then power used to air on saturday nights right which is a testament to the show because it blew up because it was airing on saturday night Saturday's probably not the slot you want to be in.

Speaker 1 And I'm in Vegas at Summer League walking around the casino. The next day after my first episode aired, and I'm sitting down, I might have been playing Blackjack.

Speaker 1 And I feel a giant hand clap me on the shoulder and I turn around. I look and it's Lamarcus Aldrich.
I'm like, oh, hey, he's like, you were awesome. You got Tommy out of jail last night.

Speaker 3 I'm like, okay, he watched it already.

Speaker 1 Then a couple of the NBA referees flag me down. And they're like, dude, you're the man.
You got Tommy off out of prison.

Speaker 1 I'm like, oh my God, this show is is starting to have that same thing that i knew once people started coming up to me with entourage and then lastly matt's the only time i got to make a tearful speech when you are eliminated from the power universe they bring you to the table read they all they all basically you do the table read and then they bring you up and they clap for you and they let you talk as like a dead person so i got to do like my locker room speech of what an honor it was and i and i said i wouldn't cry and i cry i tear you cried you cried a little tear

Speaker 1 well you had He had a great run.

Speaker 3 Did you ever, before we get into Joe, did you ever,

Speaker 3 what was your experience like with 50 Cent? Did you ever cross paths with him? I know him and Joe are super tight.

Speaker 1 We have an interesting history because 50 did a cameo on entourage that was initially scripted for Kobe Bryant, but it was in season and Kobe literally wrote back, I don't do anything in season but play basketball.

Speaker 1 So we had to change it from, it's the scene where my character who's starting to, Turtle's starting to feel emasculated and like, I have no job.

Speaker 1 And then Vince buys him a Ferrari and his girlfriend, Jamie Lynn, buys him a Porsche. She's like, you guys think I'm losers.

Speaker 1 So he takes off in the Porsche and then pulling up next to him, which is now one of the more famous memes on social is 50 who says, I see you driving in your daddy's car.

Speaker 1 It looks, you look good though. And he laughs and drives away.
Entourage had money. We were going to get 50 whatever car he wanted, but 50 said, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 I'm going to ship my car out from New York and I want to be in my car. That was my first experience of 50.

Speaker 1 he also was in las vegas with me and then when i come on to power i knew he was a character on the show and a producer but how much is he really around they always ask that with wahlberg too how much is wahlberg really around

Speaker 1 and 50 is around every table reading he's directed episodes he he his dna especially on the early seasons was there so and 50 and joe and we talked to him about the interview became really tight and also google joe shakura michael jordan commercial and just enjoy because he's in a Michael Jordan commercial from like 19 I think 89 early MJ commercial.

Speaker 1 So I think without further ado, we bring on Tommy

Speaker 1 aka Joe Shakura.

Speaker 1 So Joe, real quick,

Speaker 1 you mentioned something interesting because, you know, when I came on power, it was obviously a lot of turtle stuff, but I've been in parts of New York and LA where I've run in the same hour.

Speaker 1 I've run into an Eourage fan that's like, oh, what's up? And then I cross the street and it's a power fan, Proctor, and they don't know about each other. They don't watch the other show.

Speaker 1 So, like, if I ever was typecast, but how does it happen again twice? It kind of disproves the theory. If, because if it was a real theory, it shouldn't happen twice.
No, and it only happened once.

Speaker 2 But you did it real twice. Like, I've done it.
I mean, it's, I'm Tommy.

Speaker 2 It's like, at least for the real fans or the majority of my fans, it's like, oh, when Tommy played the guy on Ozark, oh, when Tommy plays the lawyer on Reasonable Doubt, whereas you are were Turtle and then you were Proctor and still are in some capacity.

Speaker 2 So to me, like you kind of won that as a resurgence of like, you are noted as truly as two different guys.

Speaker 1 Well, that's one thing I wanted to, I never got the chance to really, as power ended, like I left New York and we never really got the chance to sit down.

Speaker 1 But it's one thing I want to ask you when you get approached to do Force and you're coming into season three, was it a no-brainer for you? Because this is such a great character.

Speaker 1 And then I know, know you know the show is now in Chicago, and you're such a Chicago guy. Like, what was your mindset? Was it just a no-brainer? I'm in, let's go, I don't know, man.

Speaker 2 It was weird. Like, I was happy to bring the show back to Chicago, but you know, I've lived in New York now for most of my life.
Yeah. And it was also like, why is Tommy going to Chicago?

Speaker 2 Does it really make sense exactly?

Speaker 2 Like, I want Chicago people to have work. I was really happy when the show ultimately came there.

Speaker 2 But then there was all this kind of like, it's so funny talking to you, Jerry, because it's like the rest of like the stuff.

Speaker 2 I was always like i'm like giving answers like i'm like oh yes and then this and then the showrunner said this and then these other actors and i love everybody and like with you i just want to talk with you like we're having a beer that's what we're doing let's do it no i know man and i should do a little bit more that well i will say that um that the first season of the power force show because you know as well as i do we talked about it over beer and pizza in in uh in brooklyn that i was like that fifth had told me that he was so you know that he wanted the tommy spinoff from after season two yeah 50 always wanted the tommy show he always said that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Tommy wants to be a gangster. Tommy's a gangster.
And so I think, and I appreciate that a lot. And he always fought for me.
So I'm very grateful to 50.

Speaker 2 But for whatever reason, the show didn't go straight away. And then there were complications and then there was COVID.

Speaker 2 And then, you know, they announced there are only three seasons rather than the five seasons and all that stuff. So there were complications, but there was never hesitation necessarily.
But

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 the first showrunner was a lovely guy, just not the right fit.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That I stressed.

Speaker 2 I thought I was before I wrote out like five pages. Nobody was listening to me.
I was a little boy who cried wolf that everybody's like, nah, he doesn't know what he's, oh, and Joseph wants so much.

Speaker 2 Why is Joseph being difficult? He's usually so good.

Speaker 2 And I was just like, but because I love the character. And I'm like, this is not the character.
Like, I don't know if you noticed, Jerry, or if that you even watched the power.

Speaker 2 I do.

Speaker 2 But they were like trying to say, like, oh, this is when Tommy lived in Chicago. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? We already said Tommy, like, he holds up a picture.

Speaker 2 He said, this is my dad when we lived in Flushing before we moved southside Jamaica. Like, Teresa.
I was just like, what the fuck is happening?

Speaker 2 And like, all the original things that they had, which I don't think I'm at liberty to say what the original things were, I was giving ideas left and right about how we changed this damn show to get it back on track to just to collide with Tom, even going to Chicago.

Speaker 2 I said, look, all right, if he goes to Chicago, rather than have him go back to see his crippled grandmother in a nursing home,

Speaker 2 why don't we have him him like captured by the Serbs? Yes. And brought to Chicago.
Why? Because in the original power show, remember, where were the Serbs from?

Speaker 1 Chicago.

Speaker 2 So we're back in Chicago. And now he can get taken by these.
And I'm just like, but nobody's listening to me. So

Speaker 2 I thought I was having a heart attack.

Speaker 2 I know the feeling. It happened twice.
No, but truly I did. So I went to a cardiologist.

Speaker 2 I got my carotid test. I had the dye test put in me.

Speaker 1 Oh, you were really bugging out?

Speaker 2 No, I thought I was having heart attacks. It was just panic attacks.

Speaker 2 And so, um, yeah, I was freaking out, man. And then we get to set and it's COVID and I'm meeting all these lovely actors.
And, you know, the, the writers are lovely people.

Speaker 2 In fact, Kirkland Morris, who wrote on the first season, I'm still friends with, he's a great guy. And, but I'm just like, what? Like, I just didn't get it.
I just didn't get it.

Speaker 2 And then we were kind of rudderless by the end of that season, but I had, you know, some friends of mine that came back. I mean, I had Karen Hawks, who you know from directing the podcast.

Speaker 2 Karen's great director.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 He's phenomenal. And he directed so much of that first season to kind of balance me.
I just didn't totally get it. But the fans did.
They were okay. They were cool with it.

Speaker 2 But then we got Gary Lennon back for the second season. And Gary is the, he's the heart of this guy.
Yeah. You know what I mean? He's the New York of this guy.

Speaker 2 He's a West, you know, he's, he's a Westie.

Speaker 1 He's a Westie. Yeah.

Speaker 2 He's, he's, I don't want to push Gary Lennon into a corner. Like, I don't know where I'm going to come out of that guy.

Speaker 2 So I think that we got, and also stars, and I'm very grateful to Jeff Hirsch for this and making me a producer on the second and third season.

Speaker 2 It allowed me the accessibility to be like, when Gary says, what do you see wrong? It's for me to press on a Zoom button and talk to people. This is what I see wrong.
This is how I see a solution.

Speaker 2 This is what Chicago is actually like. Now, granted, I haven't lived there for forever, Jared, but there's something that you know.
Like, I went back early. I talked to cops and robbers.

Speaker 2 You know, I relearned what's going on within gangland. I grew up in Chicago.
There were

Speaker 3 nations.

Speaker 2 So you had folks, nation, and people, nation. Then you had all these subsidiaries between them.
And people within the same nation, yeah, they fought.

Speaker 2 It was like minor discrepancies, but like you, you had hell to pay if the bigger people weren't like, yeah, are the BDs going to fight the BGDs? Are they going to fight within the SGDs?

Speaker 2 Sure, because you're talking about Latin folks and black folks. And when you're in the lockups, it's like, you know, people have to go here, but you're all folks.
So

Speaker 2 you're going to be cool with these guys.

Speaker 2 But when that head, those heads got broken off in the 90s to the early 2000s, it was all hell broke loose and so i was just like look i get what we're doing but we have to represent this city kind of correct otherwise the city is not going to accept us and if we don't get blessed locally we will not be accepted globally

Speaker 1 well

Speaker 1 you got you got definitely got there and you got you i was about to say all that work on the new york accent and then you're like tom is from chicago i thought he was from chicago what the well also i was the only person cast out in new york for for the original power show

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Speaker 3 It's great to see you guys on the screen together. I feel like this is going to break the internet to see Tommy and Proctor back.

Speaker 3 And Joe, I do want to, I want to ask you this first, but I do want to talk about the scene where you killed Jerry because I watched it. And it's just like, it's, it's funny to me.

Speaker 3 I have a question for you, but in regards to Tommy, you know, like.

Speaker 3 You've played this character for a long time, and I'm sure you've had to,

Speaker 3 the process of going to some of these intense places and dark places. As me, as an athlete, I think it's just fascinating to see you guys work in that direction.

Speaker 3 How hard, how hard is it for you to, you know, to leave Tommy at work or to balance and separate kind of that role and that character to just everybody?

Speaker 1 Zero problem.

Speaker 2 No problem whatsoever. It's not a problem at all.

Speaker 2 And I think the big thing for me is that I came from the theater and that you can't survive doing, you know, a six-month run or anything like that, being that character all the time.

Speaker 2 I mean, even Daniel Day-Lewis, like, I don't know, man, I don't know if I buy that he stayed in that, like that, for the whole time.

Speaker 1 Was he Lincoln the whole time, right? Was he Lincoln the whole time?

Speaker 2 Maybe he did. And that's cool.
And I get it.

Speaker 2 But there's also a thing within the theater community where you go out afterwards and you hang out afterwards and you kind of develop this muscle of flipping the light switch on and off.

Speaker 2 I always said that in the power show, I kept Tommy as close as I needed him.

Speaker 2 My first obligation was for the truth in Tommy. I didn't produce that show.
I was just dedicated to the acting part.

Speaker 2 So if the actor for me meant to go visit Southside Jamaica, it meant to go hang out on Guy Brewer, it meant to be in some of those parks and

Speaker 2 on those streets and meeting those people and talking to see what's the reality of where Tommy Egan would have come from.

Speaker 2 And the reality is, is a lot of guys that I met, even though Tommy has a very specific dialect that's very New York.

Speaker 2 And I'm glad, God bless Michael Rappaport for saying that he couldn't believe that I wasn't from New York. So that gave me a lot of confidence.

Speaker 2 But Tommy, being from the hood, in the way of like, I still base Tommy from what I heard.

Speaker 2 And that was that these guys, these white kids from the hood men that I met still a lot of times had a default to kind of just sounding like a teamster.

Speaker 2 But, but it would be like influenced because they grew up in that community. It was like, it had to be like, it was no thought at all.
Or like, like, why does this guy be like this?

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying? It's like, there has to be like, yo, what's this guy here? But like, what's this guy here? Like, why is he here?

Speaker 1 I love it. I don't understand.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? You got to explain to me like for or whatever, but like, but there's still that.

Speaker 2 There's, it's, it's, I think it's a delicate calibration that, that, um, took a lot of experience to, to, behind the eyes and in the streets to make sure, to make sure it was right.

Speaker 3 Well, you, you obviously play that role incredibly. So I want to go back to the scene where you kill my boy, Jerry.

Speaker 1 Yes. The only one who said he found it funny.
The only guy is like, well, I found it funny because I'm like, dude, you're the worst shot I've ever seen on TV.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you, I mean, Jerry's fired off, Proctor fired off 50 rounds.

Speaker 1 I didn't directly see, I understand.

Speaker 3 I'm just saying as a fan.

Speaker 3 What, I don't, I generally don't know. Like, what is a process like?

Speaker 3 I mean, you've obviously killed off tons of people in your show, but like, Jerry, like, what is that process like when you find out you're killing off Proctor?

Speaker 3 Go back to that day, shooting that day. Are there any fun stories behind the scenes? I literally thought, man, people are going to hate me.

Speaker 2 And we did it over two, we did over two days. Remember, Jerry, like a week difference or something

Speaker 2 different. Yeah, we did it, and then we had to do the reverse coverage on it.
My coverage that you were already dead, so it was my coverage.

Speaker 2 So you weren't in the thing, so it was my coverage like two weeks later. And then the director, who I'm not going to say the name, right?

Speaker 1 Because you don't have to. I mean, people created it.

Speaker 2 You can have the episode. He killed the episode.
He was great. But he wanted me to say the line when he goes, this isn't over, Tommy.

Speaker 2 To me to say, it is for you. He kept wanting me to hit you, but I didn't want to do it.

Speaker 2 i remember that i kept going it is for you like you know like it is for you you know like it's not it is for you but it is for you it's like it is for you

Speaker 2 i just wanted to say it how i wanted to say it i was just like i don't want to get he's like just as an option let's how many takes did you do of that

Speaker 2 it is for you oh quite a few i couldn't but the shell casings was

Speaker 2 but the budget was high i mean our our budget on the fourth show was less than half i think about what the power show was by the end anyway well i think we had the luxury too, of knowing

Speaker 1 the show was coming to an end. So they were getting rid of the ghosts penthouse, right? So I guess Courtney and everyone was just like, you know what?

Speaker 1 If we're going to get rid of it, let's fucking destroy it. So we had this.
It was hilarious.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's no noise complaints.

Speaker 1 Nothing. Nothing.
You walked out. You got away.

Speaker 2 I walked out of here. I took the elevator down.

Speaker 2 But that said, one of the reasons why Jerry didn't or why Proctor didn't get any real off on Tommy was like the awkwardness of like, we, it was hard for me to think about a guy just not having, who's got balls.

Speaker 1 I mean, Proctor had friggin balls.

Speaker 2 So it was hard for me to be like, he's taking such, remember though, remember that they had you behind the couch like this? And I was just like,

Speaker 1 yeah, yeah, I don't mind, you know, so I bet there's, there's a suspension.

Speaker 2 I think what Courtney did brilliantly, and she did, she, you know, made that show brilliant.

Speaker 2 And also shout out to my boy Gary Lennon for, you know, especially coming in and doing really amazing work on that show. But what Courtney did, I think, brilliantly, she didn't make New York.

Speaker 2 She made New York to get blessed by New York, but she made New York adjacent.

Speaker 2 But she made it real. I mean, she worked her butt off and did an incredible job of making this,

Speaker 2 you know, dichotomous, complex world that it was real.

Speaker 2 And so I think that in our real world, that was the truth. So it's not necessarily what would happen here, right here in New York, where I am at 41st and Park.
Don't come here.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 it was real in the power world and universe. So I appreciated that.

Speaker 1 So I remember when I first came on season two,

Speaker 1 I watched season one, right? But I didn't know you in real life. I knew some of your work beforehand.
I've obviously.

Speaker 2 Oh, it's the pregnant guy on Grey's Anatomy. That was your favorite.

Speaker 1 When I get on, you know, it's season two and like, then I meet you and I'm like, I felt like I understood you because we talked a lot about the theater, and I was like, okay, I gotta, like, I gotta handle on who you are, which ended up helping me so much because

Speaker 1 I think I was talking to Matt off the air. It's like, of course, we have the death scene.
I mean, you've put knives to my throat. You've bent my arm back.

Speaker 1 And let me just tell you, like, no actor, you could tell me, do you enjoy getting beat up in the seat? It's not, no, you, it's part of a story.

Speaker 1 So you're happy to tell a story, but no actor wants to be getting their ass kicked on screen. But also, it's like, I don't know, you hear stories, like people do get hurt when you're doing this shit.

Speaker 1 And like, I always had the most, I've always had the most trust with you because I knew, no, and maybe it's because I knew you came from the stage.

Speaker 1 Like, I just remember that one scene when you had my arm bent back for like four hours. We're shooting.

Speaker 1 Joe's bending my arm backwards for four hours. Wall against a fucking brick wall, or it was like a metal up against a brick, cold wall 30 degrees in New York.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, this could go horribly wrong if it was with someone else. Like, it wouldn't have taken much to pop my shoulder out.
And even when we're holding fake.

Speaker 1 faith, I'm so into it because I'm so Tommy Jerry.

Speaker 2 I was just saying this to make it reveal.

Speaker 1 I listen, I've gotten hurt before. You said you've gotten hurt, I've gotten hurt in fight scenes and stuff before.
I've gotten

Speaker 2 my sternum cracked.

Speaker 1 Oh, geez, get your sternum, Jesus.

Speaker 2 Well, you have a six-foot, six over 200-pound guy actor that they talk you into doing this stunt with.

Speaker 2 That they're like, No, no, because I've done stunts my whole career, and I'm really quite good at them, very athletic, and I get it. Now I have a stunt double dude most of the time.
Do that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you can't put the ice coffee down. Get out there.

Speaker 2 But they talked me into they're like, oh, this guy was a college athlete. And I should have said no.
I should have said no. But like, you know, the actor in us, this is before the power show.

Speaker 2 So I was just like, I need to get paid. I need like nice, I want these, maybe these people will like me better if I do this.
But then I'm on the ground and I can't breathe.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, what the hell? And I'm like, I got to go to the hospital. And then they're like, oh, we already sent your stunt double home.
I'm like, well, you should not have done that.

Speaker 1 That was a bad idea.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So I got that.

Speaker 2 That was one of several times I've gotten really hurt. But again, coming from the theater and having to do that night after night after night.

Speaker 2 And if you mess that up with the person, you're screwing your whole company. You're screwing the whole performance.
So it's like, there's no reason.

Speaker 2 We made it look real because it's not up to me to make it look like it's hurting. It's up to you.

Speaker 1 100% correct.

Speaker 3 Jerry pulls hamstrings playing, you know, 40-year-old Nova Prince.

Speaker 1 I've seen like Connolly broke his leg on, say, Kevin Dillon broke his arm playing basketball. I've seen bones break.
You had your sternum broken.

Speaker 1 I mean, I'm not trying to sound like, oh, poor us, but like, I learned at a young age, let the stuntman do their job. Let's put the iced coffee and the smoothies down and let's let's get in there.

Speaker 2 And yeah, but you are much more successful at a young age because I had to put it like this: I was in an interview with Morris Chestnut, and he's just like, Well, you know, you know, I've been doing it a long time too, Joseph.

Speaker 2 I said, Yeah, I've been doing it as longer, longer than you, Mars, but you have been successful.

Speaker 1 That's little difference.

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Speaker 3 Joe, you mentioned 50 earlier, and you guys have built just an incredible, I mean, work relationship, friendship.

Speaker 3 Do you remember just initially meeting him and the memories you had and just how he's, how he's kind of just helped your career?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I totally, I remember it like it was yesterday, man. We went into the G-Unit offices when they were on 40th and 8th.

Speaker 2 Well, Mari and I went up to the office and I had this guy who, in my, everybody who meets me, they're like, damn, Tommy, you're so small.

Speaker 1 but like it was the exact you're not that small

Speaker 2 well i mean because everybody wants tommy to be six two and i'm 5'10 and change and uh i meet fifth and fifth is a beast yeah he's a big dude yoked and he just gives me the biggest hug and he's like man we're lucky to have you man that audition was crazy and like all your audience because i had i auditioned five times for the tommy role and uh uh it was just like the warmest kindest thing then he was always accessible now do i think that that he was totally upfront with me the whole time no he's an executive producer.

Speaker 2 They're doing a lot of things behind the scenes, but I never felt like he didn't have my best interests at heart in some sort of way. Now,

Speaker 2 he's got gangsta written all over him, and he really is a hustler. And there is a duplicity in that, but I got to tell you, if it existed, and I'm no dummy, if it existed,

Speaker 2 I don't think that it was ever

Speaker 2 malicious.

Speaker 2 And I have had people that I felt have been malicious. I will say this, though, too.
Fiff said to me between

Speaker 2 seasons two and three, where I said, Fiff, I'm so grateful. This is the best.
He's like, Joe, look, to know you is to love you. You should have your own show.
You're going to have your own show.

Speaker 2 But look, when you don't make me money no more, I ain't going to fuck with you. Just tell him.

Speaker 3 Keep it real.

Speaker 2 And he kept it real.

Speaker 2 I'm glad I'm still making him money.

Speaker 2 You can't stop now.

Speaker 1 Listen, I've had like the weirdest relationship with him because he did a cameo in power where he pulls up next to me. Now it's one of the more famous memes of him pulling away, laughing at me.

Speaker 1 he's with entourage. And he, he shipped out his own car.
Like we have big budgets on entourage. We're like 50, we could get you whatever car you want.

Speaker 1 He's like, no, I'm bringing he shipped out from the East Coast his own car for that scene.

Speaker 1 And I just remember like, that is such an interesting move. And then when I saw that he was doing power, I'm like, this dude, I mean, And Courtney is such a huge fan of yours too, man.

Speaker 2 And I know that's real because she was just a fan of your acting. And I know that she tailored that role to you, but you, but you showed up and you showed out, man.

Speaker 2 I mean, you came, you came dedicated. I remember you were nervous.
You were nervous, though, that first. Wow.

Speaker 1 A lot of legalese, dude. You were saying a lot of like, I was like, man, but I felt like I had your like, is he going to be good?

Speaker 1 You saved me. And what? So, Courtney can, who, you know, the only person, Joe, I, you know, you've been doing this 35 years.
I'm not about 25 years.

Speaker 3 I'm like 39.

Speaker 1 39.

Speaker 1 God bless you. I'm like 25 or six.
Courtney's the only person who has ever said, hey, I'm going to like write something for you. I got an idea.
I think you're, I'm going to write something for you.

Speaker 1 And actually called and sent over the material because she did it. I've had that said to me three times.
You got to give love, man. You got to give love.
I give so much love.

Speaker 1 But Matt, my first day really is, you know, Joe's character, Tommy, is locked up. They send me in as the fixer to get him out.

Speaker 1 Monologues of prosecutorial malfeasance and like, I'm looking words up.

Speaker 1 I know there was people at Stars who didn't think I could do it to begin with. So they were like, ha, see, we told you this guy can't play a lawyer.
And Joe,

Speaker 1 well, Joe, to again, being like giving was just like, I don't know, we had a few moments there where it just calmed down.

Speaker 1 And it's like, look, just say whatever, but just, you know, what the intention is. Go do it.
And that's, I mean, that was like day two for me was me talking to you about prosecutorial malfeasance.

Speaker 2 And look, now I'm playing a lawyer on the reasonable doubt thing.

Speaker 2 And I do think of you because I'm like, even in my, the deepest, like, most legalese stuff I have to say, I'm like, this is nothing like they gave Jerry.

Speaker 1 i'm doing a cake walk over here joe is there

Speaker 3 um i when i played football always like

Speaker 3 even in like year seven i'd always walk off the field and be like damn like that was i got to play against tom brady or like ray lewis you know you still have those moments as and i'm sure i know jerry and i have talked about this and and when you look at your career and i know tommy's been a big part of it but you've had a great career you've worked with just you worked with a lot of great people um

Speaker 3 is is there someone that has stood out to you over your career that was like, holy shit, dude, like I made it. Like this is my moment or like, is there ever someone that's made you feel that way?

Speaker 2 I don't know about it. I've never felt any moment ever in my life, Matt, to be keep it real with dude that I've ever felt like I've made it.

Speaker 2 I still, when people are like, oh, how does it feel to be famous? I'm like, who are you talking to?

Speaker 2 But and that's being honest. And I've never felt that.
But I will say that I loved working with Tom Cruise

Speaker 2 so much. I would love to do something else with Tom because Tom is just such a consummate professional and he is like a little kid.
Like when people are like, oh, he's up to this or he's up.

Speaker 2 I don't think that guy's up to anything. He just is so happy.
He loves, he loves life. He loves making films.
He loves film in general. And like, did people get fired on Jack Reacher?

Speaker 2 I'm sure it seemed like it, but I think those were the people that didn't bring their A game and weren't like, didn't want to be there or like had an attitude or didn't show up to play.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? Like the A game, like the Tom Brads, like these greats.

Speaker 2 Like I think that probably like you, I mean, any professional athlete, I truly have nothing but admiration for being, you know, going through the Chicago park districts, you know, athletics and, you know, even people who were great in high school.

Speaker 1 I'm like, holy cow, you threw the ball. How fast? That's unbelievable.

Speaker 2 So nothing but admiration for athletes. But I think in the same way that

Speaker 2 we're in these,

Speaker 2 this is not like boxing where there's nowhere to hide, hide, but on these team sports where you can excel like you do in an ensemble in theater, I think that there is something to be said for like giving yourself over to that game, like being nothing but present for this one thing right now.

Speaker 2 Not thinking about your grocery list or your wife, but thinking about how to run that play, thinking about that, that tackle or that reception or whatever, just being totally dedicated to the moment.

Speaker 2 I think there is such a similarity within what both of us do.

Speaker 2 So to me, the best was like working with somebody like Tom Cruise and my buddy Jai Courtney, who was in the Reacher show, who's still one of my dearest friends.

Speaker 2 But then, truly, like working with Jerry, like, I didn't even watch Entourage, but I knew who the fuck Turtle was.

Speaker 1 I'm like, oh, everyone knows who Turtle is.

Speaker 2 But I want to know what this guy's about. Like, how, and he was so dedicated to making this great character that I was like, I love this guy.

Speaker 2 Working with Dom Lombard, Dominic Lombardosi, who I've loved and everything, with my man Joe Perino, Chris Tardio, now, like, all of them.

Speaker 2 I don't just love Italians, by the way.

Speaker 1 I know Tardio for like 30 years, by the way. I know Tario for a very long time.

Speaker 2 He is so good and powerful.

Speaker 1 Talented guy.

Speaker 2 Way to see him in the third season. I mean, he's just, he's so, why that guy? He's such a hand.
He's this handsome Italian guy from Brooklyn.

Speaker 1 Staten Island.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Born in Brooklyn, raised in Staten Island. He loves to make the

Speaker 2 exactly. Jerry's just like, nah, nah.

Speaker 1 He's Staten Island, bro.

Speaker 2 You might have been born in Benson Hurst, but

Speaker 2 you were raised in Staten Island.

Speaker 2 I think about you every time I go to Bay Ridge, by the way.

Speaker 1 That's my neighborhood. You know, we're going to let you go, but I have to ask, because I get excited about stuff like this.
And I know you got your production company now.

Speaker 1 And I know directing is something that you've talked about and want to do. And like, I remember when Entourage was ending, I spent a lot of time in the writer's room because I wanted to write.

Speaker 1 And I'm fortunate enough, I got to write a few episodes. And that's sort of a part of my life.
But I just.

Speaker 1 To me, you're a storyteller at heart. Like you're a great actor, but I think also you are a story.

Speaker 1 Even like on this pod today, the way you're telling stories is just, it's just a little different than normal. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 So I want to hear a little more, like, is that just something that you're going to, I mean, acting will always be there and something you're always going to do because you're great at it.

Speaker 1 But I mean, I could see you behind the camera crushing.

Speaker 2 Yeah, man. Directing is, is really where I'm super comfortable and what I really love to do.

Speaker 2 I also have, you know, all those wonderful hours I got to spend, not only on the Power Show, but over all of these years as an actor, but really in the Power Show, when you have, when you're respected in that that way, you know, as well as I do, Jerry, that it's like you have to be at that upper echelon, a couple of numbers where you can ask, you can, oh, anybody can ask anybody anything.

Speaker 2 You can, but if you're like me, you don't

Speaker 2 have confidence to slow down their day or take any of their time or whatever.

Speaker 2 But I ended up being able to ask, so I know what everybody does on set, and so I feel like I can go as far as they want me to go.

Speaker 2 If they want me to ask for specific lenses, I can, or I can let, I can do a little bit of both, or I can let the DP tell the DP how I'm feeling, feeling, how the movement I wanted it to go through the story right now.

Speaker 2 I want something that's going to be a little bit more jolted right now.

Speaker 2 So, you know, can we do, can we, you know, if they say, well, do you want, you know, I'm like, yes, of course, I want a handheld, but I want you to suggest it because that's your job.

Speaker 2 I think through Gary Lennon, what I really understood

Speaker 2 what I tend to gravitate towards is empowerment of people. So I think what I see Gary doing a lot of times is like, you're great at this.
So let me empower you to be the best

Speaker 2 gaffer you can be and have the most input that we can have from you so you can do the best job you can.

Speaker 2 So I'd like to empower the rest of the crew so we can all kind of collaborate on these shots and tell the story ultimately that I've put in a lot of time and a lot of passion and I'd love to do it. So

Speaker 2 I hope I get to do a bunch of origins and hopefully if there's any other stuff, but then like also other shows because

Speaker 2 I feel like that's where it lies for me, but also producing because I love developing movies. We'll talk about it next time I'm on.

Speaker 1 I'll say

Speaker 3 next time when you do your own movie or show, you know, your first call over there to progress.

Speaker 1 Well, and maybe I want to

Speaker 1 let me put hands on someone finally.

Speaker 3 Let Jerry practice a shooting and kill somebody on a show.

Speaker 1 Okay, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 By the way, it's just before we let you go, it's great to see you guys together, man. This has been, it's always a treat for me to see Jerry wrap it up with his old buddies, dude.

Speaker 3 So we appreciate you coming on, man.

Speaker 1 You're the best, Joe.

Speaker 1 Best of luck. You're here three.

Speaker 2 When you've got time and you're back on the East Coast, let me know when you're free for a meal or whatever, Jerry. For sure, man.

Speaker 1 All right, buddy. Good luck, man.
Season three. Love you both.
You too, Joe.

Speaker 3 Appreciate you, bro.

Speaker 1 All right, it's time for fresh take of the week presented by Wendy's Wake Up with Wendy's breakfast. We've been on a good run with these fresh takes.

Speaker 1 This isn't necessarily a take, but in honor of Joe Shakura, who unalived Joe Proctor and Power, we're going to do greatest or most memorable TV deaths of all time.

Speaker 1 We're going to pick three a piece and just discuss. And this could be the ones that really hit you, Maddie.
Hit you right in all the fields. Maybe you cried.
Maybe you threw something.

Speaker 3 This was a challenging one because there's so many.

Speaker 1 Why don't we want to go one and pass it back? I'll just kill you.

Speaker 3 Well, I'm going to start with.

Speaker 1 Go ahead.

Speaker 3 I'm going to start with Misha Barton.

Speaker 1 Oh, you went to the OC. You went to the OC.
California.

Speaker 3 Played Marissa Cooper from the OC. She was killed off in the third season finale.

Speaker 3 I believe she died in a car crash

Speaker 3 caused by her ex-boyfriend.

Speaker 3 Meaningful to me because that was like my teenage. Obviously, I grew up in the OC.
So it was like Beverly Hills 90210, Melrose Place when I was a little younger.

Speaker 3 And then as I got a little bit older, you had the OC and all of those. So

Speaker 3 yeah, I mean, that was, that was, it was tragic. It was just tragic how that all went down.

Speaker 1 So I always think of TV death sometimes as the actor to me. I'm like, is that a, is that a creative decision or a contract dispute? Right, right.

Speaker 1 And Misha Fartin might have been a, that one might have been a contract dispute starting. But,

Speaker 1 all right, you want me to throw one at you?

Speaker 1 I'm going to stick in that era because this one affected me. And you youngins might not know the original 90210,

Speaker 1 Scott playing around with dad's pistol, twirling it. There was a big thing like, someone's going to die on 90210.
Is it Brandon? Is it Dylan? It was Scott, unfortunately. But I was young for that one.

Speaker 1 That one stuck with me for a while. One of the greatest

Speaker 3 TV series of all time, Beverly Hills 90210.

Speaker 3 This one got me. This one I cried.
This was a show that my wife and I watched from start to finish.

Speaker 3 This is Us and

Speaker 3 Jack Pearson. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I mean, the show, if you haven't watched This Is Us, go watch it because it's like the most relatable show if you just have a family and you're kind of going through everyday life, right?

Speaker 3 I think that was the draw. Manny Moore was great in it.
Milo was great in it. Milo plays Jack Pearson.
He dies in the house fire. Remember, he goes back in.

Speaker 3 I don't know if you ever saw the show, but he did.

Speaker 1 Oh, I did.

Speaker 3 And then, well, he comes out and then he, I think he dies from like inhalation,

Speaker 3 smoke inhalation

Speaker 3 in the hospital. But man, I'll tell you what, dude, I was sobbing on that episode.
Completely sobbing. That show made me cry every single episode.

Speaker 1 That's by design. Let me just say I'm with you on that.

Speaker 1 And also, the fire started and every time brie and i we use this kitchen device a lot started from a faulty crock pot okay jack gotta be careful so every time brie and i put the crock pot on i'm just like keep an eye on that thing keep an eye oh jack pearson man jack pierce that one hit me hard all right one more from you

Speaker 3 all right my my uh ned stark game of thrones game of thrones to me is still the greatest show ever made and i will i will die on that hill but ned stark is like the main character the dad he's He's the, like, he's the guy, right?

Speaker 3 And then he gets beheaded.

Speaker 1 And you're like, holy shit, this show is fucking tough.

Speaker 3 And that, I mean, talk about, I mean, you can name every death in that show as one of the greatest, most shocking deaths of all time. But Ned Stark set the tone.

Speaker 3 His death set the tone for what, in my opinion, is the greatest show to ever.

Speaker 1 It was like a football team coming out, establishing the road. We're going to show you what we're going to do and you try to stop it.
Well, the red

Speaker 3 people. The red wedding.
Like, I could name that show I love. There's so many, I mean, there's so many deaths in that one.

Speaker 3 We should have a whole episode on Game of Thrones one day. I'm down.

Speaker 1 I'm down. All right.
What's your best friend?

Speaker 1 For me, I go Wallace from the Wire,

Speaker 1 which was played by young Michael B. Jordan and who I was

Speaker 1 13. Well, you got to watch The Wire, Matt.
And it was like two teenage friends and one of them, through gang pressure, has to execute his boy. And they're like 13 years.

Speaker 1 It was like, it's it's heartbreaking. And Michael B.
Jordan was unbelievable. So that is on the list for me.
I'm going breaking bad, but it's not Walter White.

Speaker 1 It's his brother-in-law, DEA agent, Hank Schrader. That whole part in the desert when like Walter's handcuffed in the car and they're basically going to execute his brother-in-law in front of him.

Speaker 1 That one has always, always stayed with me. And

Speaker 1 we have to have a Sopranos cast member. There's so many.

Speaker 1 The one that always stood out to me because I love this character, Chris Multasanti, aka Michael Imperioli, where Tony Soprano had the golden opportunity where he could just make Christopher go away and actually not have to be worry about being caught for murder.

Speaker 1 So that one is always, I still, I can't even watch that episode. It's on the show.

Speaker 3 Can I give two honorable mentions really quick?

Speaker 1 Yeah, because I got one.

Speaker 3 I want to give one honorable mention to you, Proctor.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 1 I've died a lot on camera.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you've died a lot. And then also also my wife, she played Agent Vega in the last season of The Mentalist, and

Speaker 3 she got shot in the chest in a shootout in a restaurant, and she died on camera. I remember that was pretty cool.
So, you know, shout out to Josie, the wife.

Speaker 1 Wow, the biggest contract dispute one was Charlie Sheen on two and a half. Oh, yeah.
They came back next season. He's like, oh, he got hit by a train.
He got hit by a train.

Speaker 3 That's it. And then they moved on from him.

Speaker 1 Shout outs to Wendy's. That's our fresh take of the week.

Speaker 1 All right. Annie Agar joining us each and every week as she does courtesy of twisted tea.
Grab a refreshing Twisted Tea today.

Speaker 1 Annie, we're going to play Twisted Trivia today, right? Now,

Speaker 1 we have a twist on it. I've heard this show.
We have a twist on the Twisted Trivia. Yes.

Speaker 1 Usually we do a little spin on Twisted Trivia, but this week we're going to do not just NFL players for you guys.

Speaker 1 We're going to do actors or some sort of sports reference actor that you have to figure out.

Speaker 3 Is this just to try and help Jerry get back?

Speaker 1 Is this like it's basically leveling the playing field?

Speaker 1 You know, we're trying to, yeah, we're trying to make sure that when you answered one of the picture identity questions and you said, oh, yeah, I flew to him.

Speaker 1 That's when we knew maybe we're on uneve because I've never seen that dude without a helmet in my life.

Speaker 3 If I beat you at your own game, then you need to just stop.

Speaker 1 Well, here's my concern.

Speaker 3 Annie and I will just do this segment.

Speaker 1 A lot of actors live in Manhattan Beach, so I'm worried it's good. You're going to show a picture of Matt's.
I mean, I do have

Speaker 3 an entertainment background, Jerry.

Speaker 1 I mean, I was going to say, isn't your wife like big in the acting space too? She was.

Speaker 1 Basically, Matt's just got it covered on all angles.

Speaker 3 I would actually prefer to do acting entertainment.

Speaker 1 Oh, great. Jerry, you're screwed.
No. Before we get started, real quick, Annie,

Speaker 1 what was worse, the Packers loss or the helmet uniform choice? What was more acceptable by you? Did you see Romeo Dobbs' helmet? How funny that looked?

Speaker 1 I wasn't even the real leather.

Speaker 1 Everything sucked. My life is terrible, and the Panthers are the best team in the NFL.
Other than that, things things are great, guys. Are you going to do something?

Speaker 3 Why did I play Jordan Love in my fantasy this week? That was just a bad one.

Speaker 1 It's huge. He showed up like Brett Favre this week.

Speaker 1 He showed up like Brett Fravre from something about May.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, just those two throws were just god-awful. Good news, though, he did find the guy wide open in the end zone.
Just wasn't our own guy. That was one of the worst passes I've ever seen in my life.

Speaker 3 And now they got Philly this week. Oh, man.

Speaker 1 Everything's going to be great. And the dish traded.
And the douche trader with the Dolphins. Oh, man.

Speaker 3 Wait,

Speaker 3 I have a dilemma. I have a question for both of you.

Speaker 1 Interesting.

Speaker 3 I have the opportunity to start Jordan Love

Speaker 3 because my guy's on a buy or Jackson Dart. I got to go Dart, right? His fantasy.

Speaker 1 Who do the Giants play? Doesn't matter. He's a rushing touchdown and a passing touchdown.
Every week.

Speaker 3 Yeah, he is. He's getting like 30 points a week.

Speaker 1 I don't care if you're going to be able to do that. I would take him over because he's a one-man band out there over Jordan Love.
I know. Okay.
And Matt, I got something for you real quick.

Speaker 1 You sure do. What's up? Our boy Danny Dimes returned back to normal a little bit.
It was bound to happen.

Speaker 1 He's not going to play a perfect season, but a lot was made too of, oh, he's outside on grass, cold weather.

Speaker 1 Now, I know like us non-quarterbacks sometimes and betters read into that. Is that a thing? Because he was never good at Giant Stadium.
And that turf is the worst. That field is the worst.

Speaker 1 And the conditions are hard.

Speaker 1 Is he,

Speaker 1 does the dome really help a guy like that? Because he looked horrible horrible in Pittsburgh.

Speaker 3 I would say I played with the perfect example, Kurt Warner, and Kurt was great. He's a Hall of Famer, but he was built to be a dome quarterback.

Speaker 3 He played in the old dome for the Rams back in the day, the greatest show on turf. He went to New York.
He played briefly for the Giants, and then he went to Arizona, which we had the dome.

Speaker 3 You know, we had the retractable, but we were always inside. There is a massive advantage for a quarterback in a dome that can consistently play in that.
When you get to the weather games,

Speaker 3 that's why teams will draft, like, that's why the hand size thing comes in, which I think is so dumb. But

Speaker 3 you have to be able to throw and grip a ball when there are, you know, when it's weather. And so definitely, it definitely is something.

Speaker 3 I wouldn't attribute that to what Daniel Jones did this past weekend.

Speaker 1 Because it wasn't even that cold yet. It was like 40.
Like, what's going to be if he's going into Buffalo in the playoffs? Like, yikes.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So there's something to the dome for sure.
I don't think this was that, though. I think, like you said, I think you just, it was just one of those games, man.

Speaker 3 Sometimes you just have a shit game and it snowballs and you move on to the next.

Speaker 1 Well, now I got something for both of you because I was thinking about this when I was having my morning coffee, and we can do this quick before our trivia game. Because

Speaker 1 to me, there's a bunch of teams that are crossed off for the playoffs. Maybe they could sneak in so we could debate that.

Speaker 1 But I was thinking if we had a draft where we were going to combine two teams who have absolutely zero shot. They're essentially out of the playoffs of this season.

Speaker 1 They're just playing for jobs and stats and because they get paid a lot of money. If we could combine two of those teams, is there any combination that would make an instant playoff team? Okay.

Speaker 1 And I thought about this long and hard, and I have my two. Matt and I were debating, Annie, earlier, like, well, the Bengals count.
The Bengals do count as a team that's out.

Speaker 1 Okay. I don't know if I would be willing to count the Ravens yet.

Speaker 1 To me, they're still very much alive on top of the division right but let's just be clear even though the 49ers to matt's point off the air the 49ers are in third place and they're six and three they are very much that division is insane they count um so there's a few teams we could like if you want to cheat fine but i have my two does anybody want to go first or should i be the guinea pig I feel like there are not that many that could cross over to answer your question.

Speaker 1 So I wonder if we'll have a couple of the same two.

Speaker 1 All right, why don't you go first? Yeah, let's lead off. I'm going to go.
I'm glad you said Bengals because I'm going to start with the Bengals.

Speaker 1 I'm going to take the Bengals offense and the Browns defense. You tell me that that is not one of the best combos in the NFL right now.
So

Speaker 3 you're taking Flacco to lead you to a.

Speaker 1 I am. I am.
Wow.

Speaker 1 I think he's, yeah, I think he's absolutely insane.

Speaker 1 I mean, the defense has been. See, I'm going even deeper with like.
I'm going to select some defensive play. Oh, okay.
And I'm going to select some options. Barry thought really hard.

Speaker 1 I'm going,

Speaker 1 this is my homer pick. I'm going with my New York football giants because to Maddie Ice's point, you got to have a QB.
And of all these bad teams, that's a good one.

Speaker 1 And there's some offensive weapons and defensive weapons I like. But the team I think that's under the radar, they have some blue chippers.
And if you pair them is the Raiders.

Speaker 1 Give me Max Crosby, give me Gentie.

Speaker 1 Give me Brock Bowers. They have some.
Just basically take all of them without Pete Carroll and they'd be great. Essentially, well, we do have a coaching problem.

Speaker 1 It's either Dable or Carroll, but I feel like if you combine the blue chippers of the Giants and the blue chippers with the Raiders, that's like a 10 and 7 playoff team instantly. Boom.

Speaker 1 That's a good one. Raiders is good.
That's not bad.

Speaker 3 I was going, see, I was more along the lines with Annie. I was just, I was splitting it down.
One offense, one defense, since you didn't specify clearly with this one.

Speaker 1 This is a common thought at seven o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 3 Which is the most ridiculous question. But

Speaker 3 I'm going to go with the Cowboys offense and the Browns defense.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's another.

Speaker 1 You got, I mean, mean, Cowboys' offense is really good.

Speaker 3 Their defense is trash. Browns and Miles Garrett, I'm along the lines of any.

Speaker 3 You need one player to disrupt a game, and you have Miles Garrett. Raiders' defense, I understand that.
I'd take Miles over Max Crosby, but

Speaker 1 yeah, that was really good. Great.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You didn't like this exercise? I thought it was fantastic. Got our brains going.
Matt clearly didn't like it. All right, let's go to some Twisted T trivia.

Speaker 1 I'll wait for your brain buster next week that you can give us over coffee. Annie, what do you got for us today? All right, are you guys ready? I'm very interested to see how this plays out.

Speaker 1 Who's better in the acting department? Okay, question number one. We have three questions, two pictures again.
Question number one: Which team did Rod Tidwell play for? Arizona Cardinals.

Speaker 1 Wow, Jerry got it. Yep.

Speaker 1 Okay, question number two: Which team made their trick play, the annexation of Puerto Rico, famous in the last last-minute win over the Cowboys. Which team?

Speaker 3 Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 Annexation of Puerto Rico.

Speaker 1 Over the Cowboys?

Speaker 1 Eagles? Little Giants. Little Giants, yeah.
Oh, you went to the movies. Oh, shit.
Oh, my God. I just watched that movie two weeks ago.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 By the way,

Speaker 3 I got Arizona Cardinals, too. That's fine, though.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But as history has shown, you were way too slow.

Speaker 3 I mean, we could go back to the tape. You started it, but I finished finished it faster.

Speaker 1 I beat you by a full second. Let's go.

Speaker 1 Okay, tied it one, one, and one. Uh, question number three: Which college did former number six overall pick Bo Callahan attend?

Speaker 1 Great movie.

Speaker 3 Oh, no.

Speaker 1 I just watched this too. Nobody came to his birthday party.

Speaker 3 I know, Wisconsin.

Speaker 1 Yes, good.

Speaker 1 I had to think about that one a second. That's great.
That's a great question.

Speaker 1 Well done by our producer. Okay, two pictures now, gentlemen.
Are you ready? Yes.

Speaker 1 Picture number one. Matt's up to one.
Picture number one.

Speaker 1 Who is this person?

Speaker 1 John David Washington. Yes.
Wow.

Speaker 1 Come see me, boy. I didn't know Denzel's son played.
He played NFL football. Correct.
Never knew that. Love this.
I love this category. Let's go.
All right. We're tied two.
Two to two. Okay.

Speaker 1 Doing better. Am I not tied? We're picture number five.
This is to win it all. Here it is.

Speaker 1 Terry Cruz. Terry Cruz.

Speaker 1 I got it. That's a tie no it's not a tie shut up

Speaker 1 i don't know if the audio lagged but it sure sounded like matt said it first oh that wasn't even close i couldn't have said it any quicker i said it like a split oh same thing with arizona cardinals jerry same thing with arizona cardinals i was a full second ahead of you eddie are you kidding eddie adam are we are we serious here that was not even close eddie eddie and adam jump in real quick Was Rod Tidwell a clear and decisive victory yesterday?

Speaker 3 Yes, yes. Rod Tidwell was a clear and decisive victory, but Jerry, unfortunately, matt wins the bag on terrorists

Speaker 1 yes it was clear and decisive i'm sorry i tried to i tried for the record oh my god for the record okay it's been staying jerry you can't even beat me at your own game

Speaker 2 look at jerry's good jerry the competitiveness and jerry's actually starting to get a little upset it is widely understood that Jerry has the faster internet of the two, by the way. So Matt wins.

Speaker 1 That's hilarious.

Speaker 1 That is. Yeah, by the way, I have a lot of people.
How is that my fault, Dad? He has boost mobile or whatever it is no by the way

Speaker 1 by the way you are at a complete advantage and i still kicked your ass that's the sad that's you got to get off that weak wi-fi matt come on man upgrade the garage setup hey shout out to twisted t thank you guys that was fun this might be i like this much i like this much better it's fun

Speaker 1 Much better than showing pictures of James.

Speaker 3 It allows you to actually participate. I mean, we want you to participate.
We'll give you a participation trophy as well, Jerry.

Speaker 1 Matt, they showed me that. You can put it next to Matt's Heisman.
They showed pictures of players you threw to in like in work

Speaker 1 that I've never seen without a helmet.

Speaker 3 Jerry, we've played nine weeks, nine games, whatever, and that was one photo. I'm up seven to two.

Speaker 3 So, do you want to talk about the other ones that I won, or just the one that you're hanging your hat on?

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 there are definitely some photos of some people that you

Speaker 1 have.

Speaker 3 I had no idea who that was, and you won it. Great, but it's not how you start, it's how you finish.

Speaker 1 Personally,

Speaker 1 those were so upset. By the way, Cruz is a very, very famous man.
Okay, yeah, he's a famous man. He hosts a hundred television shows.
He is a very, very famous man. So it didn't really go upskew.

Speaker 1 What's the old saying?

Speaker 3 Excuses are like buttholes. Everybody got one.
Everyone has one. That's you.

Speaker 1 Never.

Speaker 1 You never heard that? Excuse me? No, but I'm going to use that now. That's hilarious.
Annie, thank you very much for joining us. Good luck to your Packers.
Thank you, gentlemen.

Speaker 1 Where are you this week, highlight of my week?

Speaker 3 Where am I? Iowa.

Speaker 3 iowa iowa oregon fun great town old heaven

Speaker 3 is gronk joining you again this week gronk will not we get gronk about twice a year actually

Speaker 3 we have michigan oh state at the end and that that's going to be a three-hour show with gronk and i think i think oh a little birdie told me one a goat it might be coming on the show no way oh that'd be electric that little birdie is in a great weekend

Speaker 3 no that's that's that's in a month i can't believe by the way we're in november college football has done the rest of the four weeks.

Speaker 1 It's wild. No, because it's always around Thanksgiving.
It's a weekend of Thanksgiving.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, championship weekend is first weekend of December, and then it's playoffs.

Speaker 1 Real quick about goats, and I'm not going to go into this take because it captured me this morning.

Speaker 1 You had a lot of deep thought this morning. Lawrence Taylor, Lawrence Taylor has poked the only hole that I've ever heard that made me go,

Speaker 1 that's kind of interesting in the Tom Brady is not the goat conversation. I'm not saying I agree.
Interesting. And he's probably being like an era guy, played in this era, but his goat is Joe Montana.

Speaker 1 And he kind of equated it to like,

Speaker 1 Brady's LeBron, Montana is MJ, never lost in the Super Bowl, played in an era where the rules were different. You could literally like physically try to kill a quarterback.
I'm not saying I agree.

Speaker 1 It just made me take another sip of my coffee and go, huh? Like greatest career versus maybe

Speaker 1 people always, yeah, six. MGS.

Speaker 3 And how many does LeBron have?

Speaker 1 Four.

Speaker 3 Montana's got four. How many does Brady have?

Speaker 1 Seven. He's seven.
Taylor's also like he also is seven and three in the Super Bowl, which is amazing, but he lost three times. No one's ever touched.

Speaker 3 Terry Bradshaw also has four and four in the Super Bowl for the Steelers.

Speaker 1 Hey, I'm not saying I'm agreeing. I'm just telling you something that made me take a sip of my coffee and go, hmm, that's interesting.
And I want no more part of it.

Speaker 1 A little controversy in the morning. I know.

Speaker 1 Brady's been going.

Speaker 1 going Jerry's had an interesting morning Jerry he did he has I'm glad he gets to share it with us man a lot of yeah I know a lot of thoughts that didn't go really anywhere but it's okay and you know what I fur Jaden I'm feeling more confused than when I came on the podcast

Speaker 1 did I confuse you guys this week I don't know what Jerry's doing with Jerry but I like to see when Jerry's in a good mood because the coffee's hitting right for sure my take my take of Jackson Dart needs to be rested by week 15 still holds up because what happened to Jaden Daniels scared me terrible and I want Jackson Dart protected at all he should have been out of the game.

Speaker 3 She doesn't even matter.

Speaker 1 Should have been. They punted.
They punted it like down 38.7. Get him out.
Anyway. I was going to say thank you to Adam and Eddie for producing the show today and all that, but you know what?

Speaker 1 You guys sided against me when you jumped on the show. So no thanks to you.
But thank you, Annie, Matt, safe travels, and we'll be back next week, guys. All right.