Teslump

Speaker 1 Hey, do you have a Tesla? You want to get rid of it?

Speaker 1 Give it to me.

Speaker 2 Guess who's getting a Tesla? President Trump Truth Socialed today. I'm going to buy a brand new Tesla tomorrow morning as a show of confidence and support for Elon Musk, a truly great American.

Speaker 2 The problem is this.

Speaker 1 Let me start by saying I do not condone unlawful activities whatsoever.

Speaker 6 These Tesla charging stations were intentionally set on fire.

Speaker 4 You can see oh my gosh, a Tesla cyber truck is on fire.

Speaker 6 Police tell us some of the cars had offensive and hateful comments painted on them.

Speaker 4 Seattle fire on the scene.

Speaker 2 It's the vandals. It's also that the stock is tanking.
Americans are furious at Elon Musk and they're taking it out on his autos.

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Speaker 7 Money.

Speaker 1 Oh, so it's a hustle.

Speaker 9 Yeah, it's a hustle.

Speaker 2 Today explained with Andrew Hawkins. He's transportation editor at The Verge.
All right, Andrew, let's go back in time to before the inauguration. Messrs.

Speaker 2 Trump and Elon are tight, but they're not yet co-presidents. What was happening with Tesla late last year?

Speaker 3 It was really just a phenomenal rally immediately after the election.

Speaker 3 Sort of, you know, the Wall Street investors just really rewarding Musk for what they saw as making the correct bet in that election.

Speaker 2 And what has been happening since?

Speaker 3 Well, it's been basically the opposite.

Speaker 3 Tesla has pretty much wiped out

Speaker 3 all of its gains since the election.

Speaker 12 What is Elon's involvement in Doge due to Tesla stock? We've seen a huge run-up between the election and the inauguration. And then since the inauguration, we've seen Tesla being punished.

Speaker 13 The downdraft coming as CEO Elon Musk takes on a more prominent and polarizing role in Washington than originally thought.

Speaker 3 It's a pretty remarkable turnaround since last year.

Speaker 2 Okay, so that's the stock market. What's been happening to people who own Teslas?

Speaker 3 You have all of these people who own Teslas.

Speaker 3 And there are millions of Teslas out on the road today, many of them in the United States, who are deeply regretting their purchases because of Musk's hard-right turn, his associations with the Trump administration, but just more than that, right?

Speaker 3 It's his

Speaker 3 persona, his trolling online, throwing Nazi salutes at the inauguration, denigrating DEI and trans people. And I think a lot of Tesla owners now are seeing that and are just

Speaker 3 shocked, right?

Speaker 3 Because especially if you consider the type of person that would buy a Tesla for years, it was largely, it was, you know, coastal elites, liberal, progressive-minded people, people who believed in climate change, who thought that, you know, by buying an electric car, they were decreasing their own carbon footprint.

Speaker 3 And now they are left with sort of this

Speaker 3 totem to Musk's hard right turn that's just sort of sitting in their driveways. And I think a lot of them are

Speaker 3 deeply disappointed. Some have even started selling their vehicles.
We saw, I think last month, a musician, Cheryl Crowe, very publicly sold her Tesla and posted about it on Instagram.

Speaker 2 I think Cheryl Crowe either gave the car to NPR or donated the money to NPR. Like she was like,

Speaker 2 I'm going to double barrel this, guys, just to get it.

Speaker 3 I mean, you know, Box Media is over here too, Cheryl. We'd love to have your donation.

Speaker 10 Hi, girl.

Speaker 2 So, so not everybody can afford to donate their car to NPR.

Speaker 2 What have we seen from people who are like, I don't agree with this gentleman's politics, but I do need to keep driving this?

Speaker 3 So, you've got a whole kind of like aftermarket accessory market that has sprung up. Bumper stickers saying, you know, I bought this car before Elon went crazy.

Speaker 3 I hate him too, are some of the slogans that people are putting on the backs of their vehicles.

Speaker 3 You know, trying to sort of send the signal out into the world that, yes, I'm driving a Tesla, but that does not mean that I necessarily support Elon Musk, support his agenda.

Speaker 3 I'm certainly not a Trump supporter. We've seen there's been a number of incidents now of people with Tesla vehicles, Tesla owners, being targeted for harassment, for vandalism.

Speaker 3 The cyber truck in particular has become a favorite target of people who are opposed to Elon Musk and to Doge.

Speaker 13 Good morning.

Speaker 15 Your Cybertruck is stupid and I fucking hate it.

Speaker 16 So I just found out that everyone hates the Cybertruck. I mean like I kind of thought that some people didn't like it, but I found out the hard way that people really don't like it.

Speaker 15 And it's called Cybertruck. Like it sounds like a 1980s Wesley Snipes movie.

Speaker 17 People will not just point and give us thumbs down, you know, it became like people screaming out of the car,

Speaker 17 some more middle fingers, you know, trying to cut us off.

Speaker 15 Think of all of the things you could have spent $140,000 on and you chose a bloated DeLorean.

Speaker 2 Why do you think the Cybertruck has become the favorite of vandals?

Speaker 3 You know, there's really just no other better symbol for Musk and his kind of like transformation from this like guy who's, you know, going to save the world through electric cars and through rockets and we're going to live on Mars and all these sort of like like high-minded ideals that people associate with him early on.

Speaker 3 And we got all of these vehicles. The Model 3 and the Model Y were sort of rounded and cute and very sort of aerodynamic and full of tech that people seem to really like.

Speaker 3 And then the next vehicle was the Cybertruck, and it's the stainless steel, low-poly, angry triangle. I've heard a lot of people describe it as, you know, sort of the bulletproof.

Speaker 3 You know, Musk himself described it as like the perfect vehicle for the dystopia, the dystopian future.

Speaker 13 You know, you never know when the apocalypse could come along at any moment. And

Speaker 13 at Hiero Tesla, we have the finest in apocalypse technology.

Speaker 2 You could have just said it's ugly, but I'm glad that you did.

Speaker 2 Glad that you did. Good too.
The context too.

Speaker 2 All right, so listen, once upon a time, you and I know, as people who did, you know, high school history, Americans used to, in order to get things done politically, Americans used to boycott, they used to protest,

Speaker 2 they used to refuse to buy products. Are we seeing anything organized, for example, or is it just, you know, Joe Smith here is giving his Tesla away, Cheryl's given hers to NPR?

Speaker 2 Like, is there momentum behind this?

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, absolutely there is.

Speaker 3 There's, you know, it started in early February with a handful of demonstrations and protests outside of Tesla showrooms and occasionally at supercharging stations, you know, small gatherings of people coming out, you know, with signs, you know, and demonstrating their opposition to Musk and to this

Speaker 3 takeover of the federal government.

Speaker 3 And since then, over the past month and a half, it's really just kind of exploded.

Speaker 18 In New York, there were arrests after a demonstration at a Tesla showroom. Last week in Oregon, the windows of a dealership were shattered by bullets.

Speaker 18 And in Massachusetts, a Tesla charging station went up in flames.

Speaker 19 The destruction of property here at the Tesla Center in Salem is only one example in a pattern of vandalism against Teslas across the nation.

Speaker 3 And now we're seeing, you know, there's been hundreds of these protests now. And overseas as well, in Europe and other countries, there have been demonstrations.

Speaker 3 And, you know, Tesla has really become a target for people who are watching what's happening on a day-to-day basis, listening to Musk talk about, you know, feeding agencies like USAID into the wood chipper.

Speaker 17 This is the chainsaw for bureaucracy.

Speaker 17 Chainsaw.

Speaker 3 Federal employees being forced to list their accomplishments or being forced to take buyouts, chaos in national parks as park rangers are being laid off.

Speaker 3 They're fearful of a rise in sort of this oligarchic type movement.

Speaker 3 And, you know, it's really kind of a fascinating thing to me, too, because I think during the first Trump administration, right, it was all about sort of a huge show of force.

Speaker 3 There was the women's march

Speaker 3 in DC and then in New York and other places.

Speaker 3 And it was about, you know, sort of thousands, tens of thousands of people coming out all at once and demonstrating that this was an election that they disagreed with.

Speaker 3 Now we're seeing sort of much smaller protests, but spread out all across the country.

Speaker 3 And it's because these Tesla showrooms are really just sort of like the perfect target, I think, for people in their effort to sort of demonstrate that they are opposed to Musk and what he's doing.

Speaker 2 Is any of this actually denting sales numbers?

Speaker 3 So I think it's a little bit too soon to tell whether or not the protests are affecting sales. But I will say that Tesla ended 2024 with its first drop in sales in, I think, over a decade.

Speaker 3 And that's because a number of things. There's more competition, right? A lot of the legacy automakers are starting to make electric vehicles.
Now, Tesla is not the only game anymore.

Speaker 3 And so their market share has been dropping. But it's also because specifically in China,

Speaker 3 the competition has become really fierce. There's also a lot of other things that are going going on.
Tesla's lineup is pretty stale.

Speaker 3 Most of its vehicles that it sells are the Model 3 and the Model Y, and they haven't really been updated until just recently. The incentives are going away, right?

Speaker 3 Trump said he's getting rid of all the EV incentives that Biden put in place.

Speaker 3 So it's not looking pretty good for Tesla in the near term in terms of being able to get that stock price up and getting the sales to pick back up as well.

Speaker 2 Have you seen any sign that he is worried about this?

Speaker 3 I listen to the earnings calls that they have every quarter.

Speaker 3 It's been fascinating lately because the topics that he'll talk about have become less and less about cars and more and more about AI and robotics.

Speaker 3 And it seems clear to me that he's not interested in owning and running a car company anymore.

Speaker 3 What he really wants to do is to be the CEO of an AI and robotics company. And I think that we're seeing that because the company is obviously trying to pivot to self-driving cars, to robo-taxis.

Speaker 3 They've got this cyber cab that they unveiled last year and are planning to start production on in 2026.

Speaker 3 They've got these humanoid optimus robots that they claim, Musk claims is going to be a trillion-dollar business and they're going to replace warehouse labor and they're going to be home help aides.

Speaker 3 And he wants it to become this new mission. And it's not clear that that's going to be as successful for him.

Speaker 2 And so he believes his future is in AI and robotics. It seems like Tesla's now kind of like the red-headed stepchild.
Oh, it's not as important to me.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 he's still very rich.

Speaker 2 He's even more powerful by Donald Trump's side. Is it possible that Tesla doesn't really matter very much to him?

Speaker 2 That Tesla being hit in this fashion with the protests and the dented sales and it changing from being like a status card to being like, oh, God, it's like a civic.

Speaker 2 Maybe it doesn't matter to him at all.

Speaker 3 I mean, I think that's a really great question because it is certainly the case that as the world's richest man, you know, how much money does he need to lose for this kind of stuff to matter, right?

Speaker 3 So he can, I think that that's, that is sort of the crux, right? He can lose $121 billion

Speaker 3 in the span of several weeks, and it doesn't really dent that much. It doesn't really phase him that much.

Speaker 3 And now he has this, you know, inside track on the federal government, this important position in the Trump administration as this special advisor, unelected, unaccountable to anyone, basically, except to Trump.

Speaker 3 It's clear to me that this maybe was the ultimate goal, right? That he's now

Speaker 3 his hands on the levers of power in a way that he never has before.

Speaker 3 It's hard to imagine what kind of effect there would need to be in order to get him to change his tactics when he has amassed so much wealth and power over the past year and a half or so, to the point where maybe just none of this really matters.

Speaker 2 The Verges, Andrew Hawkins, coming up, what's it like to be a CEO and also an elected vice president? It's never been done before. Elon's Washington Adventure.
Stay tuned.

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Speaker 5 Asking a simple question,

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Speaker 2 Today, Explained, Fez Siddiqui is here. He covers Doge for the Washington Post.

Speaker 2 Fez, in the time before Doge, before Elon Musk came to Washington, what kind of business did he have with the federal government?

Speaker 21 Elon Musk has a long history of relationships with the federal government both of his major companies spacex and tesla have dealt with the government for years over the the past decade musk's company spacex and tesla were together awarded at least 18 billion dollars in federal contracts that is according to spending data nasa cold and told us that we'd won a one and a half billion dollar contract and i couldn't even hold the phone i was like i just look i just blurted out i love you guys

Speaker 20 spacex has received billions in federal contract awards. Tesla is regulated in some ways by the federal government.
Its autonomous vehicle ambitions are handled by the federal government.

Speaker 20 SpaceX is regulated by the FAA. It obviously has an extensive relationship with NASA.
X. Twitter, the social media company that he bought, has a history with the Federal Trade Commission.

Speaker 20 Musk has a long undocumented history with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Speaker 22 The Securities and Exchange Commission sued tech billionaire Elon Musk on Tuesday, accusing him of securities fraud linked to his $44 billion takeover of Twitter, now known as X.

Speaker 23 Remember, in 2018, Elon Musk, Tesla, and the SEC agreed to have some of his tweets pre-approved by lawyers at Tesla.

Speaker 20 And Neuralink, his brain chip implant company, has interactions with the Food and Drug Administration. So there is just a...

Speaker 20 extensive history of interaction between Elon Musk and the federal government.

Speaker 2 So all of that is prior to Elon coming to D.C. and doing Doge.
Since he's been in Washington, how has he used his newfound influence to benefit his businesses? What do we know?

Speaker 20 So Elon Musk's empire, the economic engine of Elon Musk's empire, is Tesla's stock. At times, it has made up more than $100 billion of his net worth.

Speaker 20 Since election day, and especially in those initial weeks and months leading up to the inauguration, Musk benefited enormously financially to the tune of over $100 billion,

Speaker 20 largely on the belief that Musk's proximity to the White House would benefit his businesses.

Speaker 20 There was this idea that suddenly Tesla, which has been entrenched in this years-long battle over its autonomous vehicle ambitions, you know, with federal regulators, that suddenly the pathway would clear for Tesla to be able to launch these vehicles on the road.

Speaker 20 And there was this feeling that suddenly all of the regulatory friction, the inertia, that would all clear up and that would be of enormous benefit to Tesla.

Speaker 2 So Elon Musk comes to Washington and his company's stock skyrockets. One might say, well, Elon Musk didn't do that.

Speaker 2 The market did that because the market said, hey, this guy is now a Washington insider. This is going to to be great for shareholders.
Let's buy Tesla stock.

Speaker 2 Are there examples of Elon makes a move and as a result, his company, one of his companies, gets XYZ?

Speaker 20 So we've reported on the fact that the FAA was reviewing a communications contract, an aviation communications contract previously awarded to Verizon, another company, and examining potentially awarding some of that work to Starlink, one of Elon Musk's companies, or part of SpaceX.

Speaker 20 And this was happening at at the same time that SpaceX employees were operating out of the FAA.

Speaker 20 So there's this question of, okay, so isn't it the market that's benefiting Elon's businesses, not Elon himself?

Speaker 20 But the market is benefiting those businesses on the belief that Elon's proximity to power will clear the pathway for him to unleash all of these ambitions.

Speaker 2 So you talk to employees within the FAA. They're aware of what's going on here, that this contract may go from Verizon to Starlink.
What did they tell you?

Speaker 20 There was just this feeling of hesitance and discomfort over the idea, one, that the individuals working for a company regulated by their agency are now working from within their agency.

Speaker 20 And two, just sort of like a disbelief that something like this would be happening potentially, you know, out in the open.

Speaker 20 It feels sort of so brash and brazen.

Speaker 2 In the first half of the show, we heard that,

Speaker 2 as you laid out, Tesla's share price spikes after the election, but then it plummets as people get frustrated with Elon running around Washington and Tesla's cyber trucks are attacked.

Speaker 2 So right now, his stock is up and down. And so

Speaker 2 if we say, well, is Tesla really going to benefit? Maybe the answer is to be determined.

Speaker 2 But are there other ways other than the stock price that Tesla will benefit from Elon having this close relationship with the Trump administration?

Speaker 20 So Tesla for years has tried to unleash a fully autonomous car on the roads.

Speaker 4 When you get in, you'll see like it's really quite a wild experience to just be in a car with no steering wheel, no pedals, no controls, and it feels great.

Speaker 20 And the autonomous vehicles that you see on the road are these sort of rolling science experiments.

Speaker 24 This parking lot full of driverless Waymo cars has had multiple incidents where suddenly the vehicles become confused and start honking all at each other.

Speaker 9 It's circling around a parking lot.

Speaker 24 I got my seatbelt on. I can't get out the car.
Has this been hacked? What's going on? I feel like I'm in the movies.

Speaker 20 Teslas are consumer vehicles. They would have faced so much pushback against this idea under, you know, a different regulatory apparatus.

Speaker 20 In the one they're seeing now, Tesla is valued as a tech company that is going to be able to realize this ambition ambition and put these cars on the road and deliver them to consumers under the promise of autonomy.

Speaker 20 And so the company's

Speaker 20 product roadmap benefits from this belief that there's not going to be regulatory interference. And the company essentially gets to sell investors on a story that it's operating.

Speaker 20 outside of the established principles of the business they're in.

Speaker 2 So, Fez, we are less than two months out from inauguration day. and clearly there's been a lot of movement for Elon Musk's companies and in the market reaction to them.

Speaker 2 What does he stand to gain over the next three years and 10 months?

Speaker 20 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 20 there is sort of an unlimited ceiling on what he stands to gain. Of course,

Speaker 20 there's so much at stake for him at the same time.

Speaker 20 What we're seeing, what we've seen over the past five or so days is sort of unprecedented.

Speaker 20 I mean, I've Doge reigned in essentially with Trump telling cabinet secretaries that they're in charge of, you know, cuts to their workforces, not Doge.

Speaker 20 We've seen one of Elon Musk's rockets, the Starship, explode.

Speaker 15 Oh, is that a SpaceX launch? It looked like a launch.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I think it is a launch. SpaceX's massive second-generation Starship unfortunately had another failure on orbit that sent it spinning out of control.

Speaker 16 Awesome. They said it did blow up.
Oh, it did blow up? That's what chat is saying.

Speaker 15 That wasn't normal.

Speaker 20 X has had what looks like its biggest disruption in years. It's in the middle of a major outage.
Tesla's stock is being pummeled.

Speaker 20 And so there's just this sense that Elon actually stands to potentially lose a lot. The flip side of that is, financially, at times, post-election, his wealth has been up by more than $100 billion.

Speaker 20 And there's no ceiling on that kind of thing.

Speaker 20 His proximity to power puts him in not only a position of great influence over, again, you know, the leader of the free world, but it also gives him the ability to benefit his businesses, whether directly or indirectly, in all kinds of ways.

Speaker 2 Fez Siddiqui covers Doge for the Washington Post. He's also author of the forthcoming book, Hubris Maximus: The Shattering of Elon Musk out in April.
Devin Schwartz produced today's show.

Speaker 8 Jolie Myers edited.

Speaker 2 Andrea Christian's daughter and Patrick Boyd are our engineers. And Laura Bullard, check the facts.
I'm Noelle King. It's Today Explained.

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