Who is Tripledot & what do they do? The History, games portfolio & estimated profits

Speaker 1 Yeah. So bonuses three years ago were a hell of a lot higher.

Speaker 1 And pretty much all networks probably pay them bonuses to test with them as well, right?

Speaker 1 So I would probably set the bonus per year anywhere between 30 to 50 million in terms of payouts, with the majority of that probably coming from some sort of mediation deal.

Speaker 1 There's no way you can know that. That's just complete guessing from the outside.
So it's basically three months.

Speaker 1 Exactly. So basically, that means most likely that from the last three years of operating Triple Dot, there probably is a count somewhere with

Speaker 1 600 to 900 million dollars worth of free cash, basically, that they

Speaker 1 from the last three years,

Speaker 1 which means that you can quite easily buy a company that costs 900 million because I'm sure a banker would love to structure that up.

Speaker 1 It's 4 a.m. and we're rolling the dice.
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Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 Well, that's that's how it is.

Speaker 1 Hello, everybody. Welcome.

Speaker 2 My name is Matiella Ancharic.

Speaker 1 I'm Felix Broberg.

Speaker 2 And we are your hosts.

Speaker 1 That is great.

Speaker 1 It is. And today,

Speaker 1 what are we talking about? We are talking about... We want to do a special episode.
Yes. Yes.
Tell me. Because

Speaker 1 we want to do a special episode on the back of some bombshell news that leaked this week, which is that Appleven is selling its gaming division to UK firm Triple Dot for $900 million.

Speaker 1 And we were shocked, not about the deal, but we were shocked more that a lot of people on LinkedIn were shocked. about this news

Speaker 1 so today

Speaker 1 we are gonna yeah we are gonna go we're gonna dive into like like in this episode who is Triple Dot and what does Triple Dot do?

Speaker 2 And we only talked about one of their games, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, basically

Speaker 1 in the big episode that we had before with Triple Tile and Triple Match.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 1 And for those who don't know, Triple Dot is a casual studio based in the UK that monetizes 99.3%

Speaker 1 with ad revenue. And that's according to my estimates.
We're going to go into that. So we're going to talk about their portfolio.
We're going to have a look at their biggest title, Wudoku.

Speaker 1 I'm going to estimate their overall revenue and the overall profit from the last three years.

Speaker 1 And essentially, I just want to preamble this a little bit because basically, in mobile, once you earn IAP revenue, it's like firing off a giant flare gun to the development community.

Speaker 1 And anyone with sensor tower access can pretty much in real time track your progress and see if your project is worth copying or not. IAP revenue is loud, brash, and easy to track.

Speaker 1 Whereas ad revenue, the second income stream for mobile apps, is opaque, concealed, and difficult to estimate.

Speaker 1 In mobile, ad revenue is quiet revenue, and IAP is loud revenue. And you usually need an insider to help you calculate and estimate what a studio is actually earning.

Speaker 1 Lucky for you, we have our own insider. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Awesome.

Speaker 1 Or

Speaker 2 you actually follow the news.

Speaker 2 And that's pretty much it. Or you kind of like understand how gaming works.

Speaker 1 That's it. Yeah, exactly.
So I estimate that the mobile ad monetization market pays mobile publishers between 38 to 55 million dollars per day to show impressions in their apps. So that's my estimate.

Speaker 1 And basically, that means that mobile publishers on mobile

Speaker 1 collectively receive between 14 to 20 billion a year in ad revenue.

Speaker 1 That's kind of a far cry from the $142 billion that the Play Store and App Store are estimated to have generated in 2024.

Speaker 1 However, ad revenue is not subject to the 30% Apple and Google tax, and ad revenue is pretty much generated away from prying eyes.

Speaker 1 And in ad monetization, there's about 10 companies that earn over a million dollars a day day in ad revenue. Triple dot is one of them.

Speaker 1 I basically categorize them as a

Speaker 1 premium developer of games that monetize with ads.

Speaker 1 Anything you guys like to add to that? No, hyperclass.

Speaker 1 Do I get it right what you said? That like overall yearly, it's around 15 to 20 percent of mobile gaming revenue coming to ads?

Speaker 1 Roughly, right? I mean, it depends how you want to count it, right?

Speaker 1 So like if 142 is generated by the Google Play and App stores last year that means forty billion dollars of that is tax right so if you minus that then basically it would be twenty percent i don't know how you want to calculate it from like a publisher perspective or general perspective right but that's that's fifteen to twenty and google play excluding china and all these other yeah okay i just looked at the top line for the app stores from estimates so yeah

Speaker 2 kaima that's another episode

Speaker 1 because you know we know that like for instance we chat games they have their own ad-grossing charts, basically. Yeah, just saying, so

Speaker 1 we have

Speaker 1 ceilings. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 iOS and Android are not that big there, right? So, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 So let's talk about Triple Dot. Jakob, when was Triple Dot founded?

Speaker 1 2017.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Well,

Speaker 1 all right. So Triple Dot founded in 2017.
The founding trio, I guess they're ex, Facebook, basically. Akino.

Speaker 1 Akin was Facebook.

Speaker 2 That's for us. That's that I know for sure.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 and basically, they really know what they're doing on the ad revenue side, right?

Speaker 1 So, let me just show you something here. Let me just do a screen share.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 2 Felix struggling with the screen share again.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was just because you know,

Speaker 2 yeah, you know, because

Speaker 2 that's what you do always.

Speaker 1 Anyway,

Speaker 1 such a good intro, you know? There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 So Triple Dot was founded in 2017, right? So this is their overall publisher downloads since 2017.

Speaker 1 And essentially, no, like they were pretty much steady at around two to three million downloads per month until 2022, when essentially they raised $116 million

Speaker 1 at a $1.4 billion valuation. And you can see here, that's really when they started to kick kick things into a higher gear.

Speaker 1 Before the raise, about four million dollars, four million downloads per month.

Speaker 1 After the raise, they have pretty much averaged 10 million downloads per month without skipping a beat, without missing a single month.

Speaker 1 Sometimes this peaks at 15, but basically, they've never been below that again.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 don't forget in 2022, they also bought

Speaker 1 Zachary.

Speaker 1 Jeffrey Mobile,

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. We'll get to that.
But essentially,

Speaker 1 the most important thing to know when you're talking about ad revenue, that is the active user base. Because essentially.

Speaker 2 By the way, do you think if

Speaker 2 they haven't raised the money,

Speaker 2 would they need a partner for scaling UA?

Speaker 2 Maybe.

Speaker 2 You never know.

Speaker 2 I mean, I think they raised the money for that, but what would they have done instead of raising matiex but instead of that they could talk to pvx partners although i think like back then pvx partners haven't existed yet but you know what today's episode is brought to you by our sponsor pvx partners the simplest is most effective credit line for marketing because if you are scaling your game or your company and you want to scale like triple lot and you need funding you don't need to raise series a or series b you can talk to pvx partners there's no equity dilution you can repay as you get paid.

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Speaker 1 There you go. I don't know.
We've done these ad reads now for a couple of weeks, right? And I still want to meet Tyler. Sorry, one correction.
The Zephyr acquisition was 2024.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yep, just saying, all right. So, basically, oh, yeah,

Speaker 1 yeah, yeah, the active user base is actually what you want to pay attention to when you're looking at monetized games because that's essentially what earns you revenue, and that's how you can kind of estimate that.

Speaker 1 I tried to pull an active user base of triple dots since all start or since the start, but

Speaker 1 Sensor Tower crashed on me.

Speaker 1 So, I'll just hear a snapshot of the the last 30 days, right? So it's, according to Sensor Tower, 8.3 million DAU.

Speaker 1 That's nearly the size of my country, Sweden.

Speaker 1 But the most impressive thing here is, right, is that the second largest GEO after India is actually US.

Speaker 1 So that means that they're going to be earning a lot of ad revenue from that because essentially the US is where you have the highest DCPMs.

Speaker 1 Do you want to talk anything about the games overall before I jump into kind of the estimate on what I think these guys have earned in the last couple of years?

Speaker 1 I can take on games.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think we can talk about the acquisition that

Speaker 2 you corrected me.

Speaker 1 I'll go into it

Speaker 1 when we're doing the estimate as well.

Speaker 2 Okay, okay, okay. Because there is one more.

Speaker 2 one more acquisition and then one which i don't think happened but it was somewhere in in pitchbook.com which was touch 10 games. And I've

Speaker 2 never heard about these guys, and I haven't seen these

Speaker 2 games on their own triple dot portfolio, but it's apparently there is some connection.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 trying to look what I missed there, but like, I think it's, yeah, this is Zephyr. It's accounted here in triple dot,

Speaker 1 yeah,

Speaker 2 Zephyr is there, yeah.

Speaker 1 Zephyr is there, yeah, Zephyr is there. Zephyr is, for instance, Jigsaw puzzle

Speaker 1 and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 When I was doing the estimate for the revenue, basically, I think they're in the process of moving things over from the Zephyr account to the triple dot account because there's a couple of games that are still in Zephyr's portfolio on Sesame Tower, and there's a couple of ones that have moved over.

Speaker 1 There are definitely Zephyr.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but Zephyr is get color, hay color, or math crossword. And math crossword is.

Speaker 1 Math crossword is Zephyr? Yes, that's Zephyr.

Speaker 2 It sounds crippled.

Speaker 2 No, of course, but it's it's Zephyr. Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 Based on some some articles and uh some information.

Speaker 1 So very briefly, like pretty much Vudoku is the game that put Triple Dog on the map when it started scaling heavily in twenty twenty one.

Speaker 2 I mean, we need to say they they started the company uh on the back of the the Solitaire classic apps. Like that was the the ini initial ideas and like the games that they they had.

Speaker 1 Yeah, solitaire dot com, literally the game.

Speaker 2 Solitaire's like basically classic sorters.

Speaker 1 Yeah, which was doing like a million downloads a month. Evergreen.

Speaker 1 Yeah, evergreen. Yeah.
Yeah, now being disrupted as we talk with all these solitaire.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but that's a different, different topic.

Speaker 1 Anyway, moving on,

Speaker 1 then comes Triple Tile, right? After Woodoku Summer 2022, we already covered that game in great detail in our Triple Match Fight episode, where we compare it with Triple Match, Triple Tile.

Speaker 1 And what was the last one? Boom, Triple

Speaker 1 Triple Match 3D. Match 3D.

Speaker 1 triple match 3D, yeah, yeah, triple match 3d. Uh, then there's the get color water sword puzzle, yes,

Speaker 1 yeah, that's a fear uh, that's been added from that acquisition, I guess, into this account. And then, nut sword is again Zaphir,

Speaker 1 yeah, yes, that's a fear again, right?

Speaker 1 And then currently, the biggest scaling game in terms of downloads of active users, that's the difference

Speaker 1 that Felix said, is the mat crosswords, which we're going to to look into in

Speaker 1 a moment. Later.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and then Vudoku Blast, I guess that's right, which I don't see here, but it's supposed to be here.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because if you look at the curves, just briefly,

Speaker 1 this one. So, this is Vudoku Blast, which was one last year's October, and it's literally doing now half a million downloads a day.
Yeah, no, that's active user base. That's the active user base.

Speaker 1 The correct metric to look at. Yeah.
Well done, you know. It's doing 140k downloads a a day, and it's like at half a million.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 it's tough. And Matt Crosswords is also scanning like crazy, which is currently at something like 70,

Speaker 1 700k active users. And DownloadsWise is also doing those 200k a day.
Yep.

Speaker 1 If we look briefly into the games themselves, so

Speaker 1 I think we have already covered multiple games that looks like this, but this is the OG one.

Speaker 2 That's what I wanted to ask, and I'm sorry for being an idiot here, but was it what was Voodoku first and then Block Blast, or the other way around?

Speaker 1 I would guess Blockbuster was later.

Speaker 2 Is that so? Okay, because then Voodoku, what is what they're doing is just, oh, hello, what the BlockBlast is doing on the creative side?

Speaker 1 Let's just take that and then use it in our game.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 2 we need to check that because that's very important in this.

Speaker 2 And also, I mean,

Speaker 2 when we had Anatoly from Bernie Games,

Speaker 1 there is definitely some

Speaker 2 yes, the play doku is there is there are some similarities, not only in creatives, but in the gameplay as well. So, because you know,

Speaker 1 it's very important because then they have Vudoku plast, which is there, you go, yeah, Vudoku is definitely first, yeah, broadcast that and scaling somewhere like 2022, which was two years after,

Speaker 2 okay, yeah, well, you never know, you never know, it's good,

Speaker 2 it's good to have it there, yeah, it's good to have it in the same graph.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. So, back to the point.
So, Vudoku is basically kind of similar.

Speaker 1 It's a flagship title, basically.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 it's again this kind of a Tetris

Speaker 1 iteration where you are having three blocks at the bottom that always comes, and you need to get rid of all of three and put them onto the board. You're getting points based on your matchups.

Speaker 1 Staff can be destroyed in Tetris style manner if it's a whole line or whole column or within these full

Speaker 1 squares.

Speaker 1 Doku squares, basically. Yeah, yeah, like exactly, like kind of very similar to Play Doku, like as I said.
Like, play Doku is literally taking this.

Speaker 1 This is the classic mode

Speaker 1 where you just pretty much go until you run out of space on the map and go for the highest score as possible, which I won't go into like full now.

Speaker 1 And then we have the daily challenge there, which is like a pretty indicated

Speaker 1 usual thing.

Speaker 2 If you just go to blog blast episode, this is exactly it, but in brown.

Speaker 1 Actually, Vudokublast will be even more. You will see.

Speaker 1 And then they have their journey, which is again single-player content structured, where there are these mechanics where actually you need to collect stuff. So it's a little bit of level design there.

Speaker 1 And it's there. There's interstitials, there's ads in between, and so forth.
So like

Speaker 1 nothing heavy regarding the progression. It's very, very easy.

Speaker 1 regarding the voodok blast it actually starts different it starts from the level saga first and then you unlock the classic mode which by the way the level saga seems to be uh

Speaker 1 much more polished i would say yeah

Speaker 1 it's yeah you can see that the the the

Speaker 1 Even the colors are basically the same as Blockbust uses. And I would expect that, like, yeah.

Speaker 1 yes i mean like

Speaker 1 subway surfers in daily active user base so you know what like a good thing copy them like

Speaker 1 something

Speaker 1 that works exactly so

Speaker 1 going here so here for instance we have a level where you see that these balloons you need to have continuous destruction of the same block pretty much in order to

Speaker 1 to kind of destroy them and again same setup here that there's three blocks kind of falling there on the bottom and and I think it's very good kind of

Speaker 1 the difficulty adjustment here because the blocks that are given to you are, I think, it's not accident that they know what they're doing regarding the difficulty. Yeah, but that's there.

Speaker 1 There's uh, I'm not gonna continue here. Let me go back to the main menu.
So, there's the classic one, there's these, like, even like a saga, I would say, and that's it, basically.

Speaker 1 Like, we have basically

Speaker 1 as usual, like yeah with these heavy ad games you don't really need that much it's the it's the main part of is like hidden um in between in the behind the scenes with the difficulty adjustment in between you mean in in

Speaker 1 in interstitials yeah in between the interstitials but the thing is regarding the setup of those interstitials that's very important yeah of course uh finishing the thing with the matte uh cross puzzle which is kind of you kind of unique to be honest i think this one looks very very polished and very like i would say polished like all the games Yeah, like I would say, this is on top of these like

Speaker 1 ad-driven casual games, which are like this is even high. This is not even hybrid, like it's not hybrid, it's like 99% of the revenue.
Like, there's not even shops, so I don't think so.

Speaker 1 There's even a possibility to have any IP revenue in this. I don't think so.
That's 99.3, right? 99.3%, yeah, yeah, exactly. So, what you're doing here, this is quite interesting.

Speaker 1 So, you're basically solving simple math,

Speaker 1 which if you do, you get graded with points, and uh, yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 It looks good to you, maybe. It looks pretty hard to me.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 1 let me just finish.

Speaker 1 Looks pretty hard to me.

Speaker 1 Finish this one level.

Speaker 1 And we'll see. So yeah, this is basically

Speaker 1 how it looks. They have a progression here, actually.
So you are growing your plants or whatever, like you see here.

Speaker 2 Nobody cares about the plants.

Speaker 1 Yeah, nobody cares.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so we have our plant collection, which again, rose, Cordana. I don't know what this is, and there's a lot of them that you can grow.

Speaker 1 So, it's a little bit of like at least some kind of visual thing. But again, this is the usual daily challenge.

Speaker 1 We were here, then there's player ranking as per usual.

Speaker 1 There's expert mode, by the way, which is kind of hard.

Speaker 2 Oh, take the mode, it's kind of hard.

Speaker 1 Because here it's like it's not only you need to solve the math, you need to solve the combinations of the math. Because

Speaker 2 here it's in it's in the it's in the ads. I mean like I was looking at it like

Speaker 2 what's happening? Yeah,

Speaker 1 what should happen there? It's quite hard.

Speaker 1 So yeah,

Speaker 1 I think they've done it pretty well. And banners are, by the way, always present.
both in the menus and both during core gameplay. So that's there.

Speaker 1 And yeah, I think this works pretty great as for like these very

Speaker 1 very kind of

Speaker 1 skinny feature set games that are ex like expertly done through the add revenue uh setup.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 those are the like the main titles. Go go back please for to the center tower here and then just put uh

Speaker 2 the revenue.

Speaker 2 Because if you look at this

Speaker 1 there's nothing not sort nuts or maybe does some something there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Nutsword is the title that's uh again the sorting thing, similar to the

Speaker 1 what's the other title that they have there? This is Zephyr's right,

Speaker 2 get color or hey color.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So instead of

Speaker 1 vials of colored water, you are actually moving these screws.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, and this is this is, I think,

Speaker 1 I would guess it's like 10%,

Speaker 1 15%

Speaker 1 IP revenue driven, maybe. I don't know.
That would be my guess. And honestly, it's still heavily ad-driven.
Like, that's what everything is

Speaker 1 80k downloads a day. Come on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it doesn't mean that it's not working.
It's just a different model and it's hard to do.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, and and this is the important part.

Speaker 1 I think like this kind of carries the message that literally reminds me of this like one scene from Thirteen Warrior where the guy was like faking the battle and like in the end he killed the guy because he could kill it like any point and and he just said like, oh, now he needs to come with something he doesn't see anymore.

Speaker 1 Because that's basically ad revenue. Like, you need to come with something that you don't see pretty much in the charts.

Speaker 2 What a great analogy. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 We kind of went full circle from

Speaker 1 the intro, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 IIP is loud revenue.

Speaker 1 In a bad, it's quiet revenue.

Speaker 1 Think about it. IIP revenue is like the loud, brackish, red Lamborghini you have on the store, and then like ad revenue is like the aged Swiss revenue family that just had wealth.
No, it's hidden.

Speaker 1 Sitting in Switzerland.

Speaker 1 IAP is hidden because it's kind of

Speaker 2 basic revenue because even like an idiot can read the graph.

Speaker 2 If you have ad revenue, you actually need to understand how it works.

Speaker 1 And then have a feeling.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but still.

Speaker 1 Even the thing with like, oh, this is a sheet ton of downloads, it will have a sheet ton of ad revenue. This is not true because if you don't see the country filter, like it's a different story.

Speaker 1 So active user base is what you need to go off. Exactly.
Yeah, it could be,

Speaker 1 therefore, you know.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And on that note, do you guys want to jump into my estimate of how much I think triple dot? What's going to money?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I said 1.5 mil per day, but that's too much, as you mentioned. So let's say like 1.2,

Speaker 2 maybe.

Speaker 1 You're right and you're wrong, Matte, because ad revenue swings wildly throughout the year.

Speaker 1 And basically in the last two years, normally I say that is basically measures how close you are to Christmas on how much you're earning because of the ECPM.

Speaker 1 But we haven't had a break through Christmas on ECPM for the last two years because it's moved to Black Friday, basically. Oh, Q5.
Yeah, no Q5. It's all Black Friday.

Speaker 1 So, how I did this estimate was I took all of

Speaker 1 Triple Dot's games and I looked at the active user base in the last 30 days because I couldn't look at it. It's on the heat part I was talking about.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. Yeah.
Because it broke essentially. So in the last 30 days,

Speaker 1 like I said, 8 million users. On iOS in the USA, it's 468,000 DAO.
On Android in the US, 494,000. So pretty much 500,000.
iOS worldwide excluding states 1.3 million.

Speaker 1 And iOS worldwide excluding the states, 5.6 million. So yeah, a lot of Android revenue.

Speaker 1 So, what I assume.

Speaker 1 No, I just have the calculations here, so you can keep entertaining.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 what I estimate here is that the majority of the games are earning majority of the ad revenue from interstitial because basically that's the main bread and butter. Yeah.

Speaker 2 In the meantime, can you show the retention numbers for the Vutoku and the DLS?

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 2 people are actually asking about this, and we never

Speaker 2 sometimes you talk about it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, sure, sure.

Speaker 1 So, I handicapped on average that their titles show nine interstitials

Speaker 1 per user per day on an active user or daily ad viewer rate on about 75%.

Speaker 1 Banners, I estimate because basically they're always visible. 120 banner impressions per DAU on 70% ad viewer rates,

Speaker 1 and also

Speaker 1 four rewarded ads on 45%

Speaker 1 of ad viewer rates across the whole basically portfolio on average.

Speaker 1 So that would mean that in the last or yesterday

Speaker 1 that Triple Dot would have generated about 920K

Speaker 1 for one day worth of ad revenue. Then I needed to add in the Zephyr mobile stuff because they're kind of moving over some titles.
So I look there as well. Same thing there.

Speaker 1 78 to 90k a day from Zephyr, which brings to a grand total in the last 30 days of $974,000 per day in ad revenue. But then we need to take this a step further, right? Because it fluctuates, right?

Speaker 1 So the closer we are to Black Friday, the higher the ECPMs, which means you earn a lot more, right? Right now, we're in a low ECPM time period. March, February is low.

Speaker 1 So you probably need to add on about 25%

Speaker 1 to that.

Speaker 1 So basically, it's anywhere I would say between 900 to 1.3, sometimes probably going up to 1.4.

Speaker 1 Yep. So that's the kind of like space that we're dealing with in terms of this developer.
But basically,

Speaker 1 now we went, yeah, exactly. It's huge, right? So now we need to take it a step further, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Way more. So basically, in a year, they probably are earning anywhere between 320 to 380 million dollars,

Speaker 2 which means I still think it's closer to 500.

Speaker 1 We'll get to We'll get to that. Because basically, what I wanted to estimate here as well is profit, right?

Speaker 1 Because I am in the ad monetization team, and we rarely get told usually what profit margins you're running. That's usually the UA team that's privy to that.

Speaker 1 So I estimated the profit on 20%, 30%, 40%, and 50% profit margin. So, Maty, pick a number out of those that you think is most realistic.

Speaker 2 Took 40, pretty much. 40.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So that means that the profit would be about $150 to $160 million per year. And if you add the kicker there, that means it's closer probably to 200 profit a year, 200 million in ad revenue.

Speaker 1 So that means that they've been at this ad revenue for the last three years, which means they have generated about

Speaker 1 $60 million to $700 million in profits. Exactly.

Speaker 1 But then also, there's another aspect of these large-scale publishers that we also need to take into account, right? Because that is publisher incentives and bonuses.

Speaker 1 So, if you have this many impressions,

Speaker 1 you're pretty much like, yeah, you're pretty much the king on the block, right? You can ask for whatever

Speaker 1 impressions.

Speaker 2 Hello, we are guys from Applaim.

Speaker 2 You know, we would like to keep you on Max. What do we need to do? Oh, here are some bonuses.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So, bonuses three years ago were a hell of a lot higher.

Speaker 1 And pretty much all networks probably pay them bonuses to test with them as well, right?

Speaker 1 So, I would probably set the bonus per year anywhere between 30 to 50 million in terms of payouts, with the majority of that probably coming from some sort of mediation deal.

Speaker 1 There's no way you can know that, that's just complete guessing from the outside. So, this is basically free money,

Speaker 1 exactly. So, basically, that means most likely that from the last three years of operating Triple Dot, there probably is a count somewhere with

Speaker 1 $600 to $900 million worth of free cash, basically, that they

Speaker 1 from the last three years.

Speaker 1 Which means that you can quite easily buy a company that costs 900 million because I'm sure a banker would love to structure that up, make a real

Speaker 2 not really 900 million in cash, it was

Speaker 1 half of it. 500 to 400 or something was split.

Speaker 1 Also,

Speaker 2 as I will show you in a second,

Speaker 2 can you guess what is the biggest ad network for Triple?

Speaker 1 Max, Applevin, most likely?

Speaker 1 Oh, yes,

Speaker 1 exactly.

Speaker 1 They're really close.

Speaker 1 I've heard the teams are quite close. I mean, the thing is, right, like

Speaker 1 Max is close with all their large publishers because essentially the more impressions you have access to, like when I was watching the last, what's it called, quarterly reviewer end of year statement, he kept talking, or Adam, the CEO of Apple, and kept talking about how many users they can reach.

Speaker 1 And having good relationships with publishers like this is essential to essentially reaching your 1.2 billion people that he talked about so much.

Speaker 1 So you can't do that without having good relationships with your triple, triple dots, your voodoos, your Azores, your SAI games, all of these game developers.

Speaker 1 So could it be that basically it's like best buddy giving his, you know, like, here's my World of Warcraft account, go play with it. I'm going to play with him.
I mean, not

Speaker 2 that, but there was most probably some

Speaker 2 kind of advantage of being

Speaker 2 close, but still.

Speaker 1 yeah i mean leor he must be extremely shrewd i've never met him or spoken to him uh adam i spoke to once he seemed very shrewd and very like businessy i don't think either of these two leaders would probably

Speaker 1 leave any money on the table because of you know friendship or stuff like that i don't think so like at that point of level it exists but uh yeah it's just like nuts right it's just a lot of money yeah it's a lot of money and based on all of all of this and we met Mark, we met Jan, we met

Speaker 2 a few of the guys from the team. We know Akin.
And

Speaker 2 these guys are OGs. Akin is an OG, and the founding team is OGs, really

Speaker 2 the original gangsters of the gaming industry. And the UA team is top-notch, seriously.

Speaker 1 I mean, the Hackbond team is on point. It's so good.

Speaker 2 And these guys came up with

Speaker 2 the workaround for Facebook when there was no Adroas campaigns. And they're like, you know what?

Speaker 2 Why don't we just send AdRevenue in purchase events so we can actually use Facebook for Adros without actually having to do that?

Speaker 2 I mean, like, seriously, they were like the

Speaker 2 top company that were running that. So it's like,

Speaker 2 you really need to know what you are doing to actually come up with something like this.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 2 I can imagine what I mean, what they can do with the whole uploading gaming portfolio. It's gonna be insane.
Like, you you see the data here.

Speaker 2 This it's true that it's gonna be maybe slightly different since there's a lot more IIPs, but still, I mean, I don't see there's a big difference between a UA manager that is actually uh managing games that are IIA only or IIP or hybrid.

Speaker 2 It's just you know, the logic is the same, you just have actually more options.

Speaker 1 Is there a game in the app lobbying portfolio that's like 100% IP without any ad revenue? Um, I would guess the

Speaker 1 match matching game. I don't know where it is.

Speaker 2 Matching game is project makeover, but I don't think that's

Speaker 1 it's uh yeah, project makeover. That would, I would guess, it's 100% IP.

Speaker 2 Oh, honestly, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 Maybe, maybe a little bit bad, but like yeah, I haven't played it. Yeah, but majority is looking Looking at the big games, yeah.
So there's Project Makeover, which is Match 3 Puzzler IEP driven.

Speaker 1 Then you have Cash Tornado Slots and a lot of these other slots games, which are, I guess, also IEP driven.

Speaker 1 Maybe they'll sell them to Playtaker.

Speaker 1 Yeah, maybe. Magic Convention is the OG

Speaker 1 Match 3 again IPs. Wordscapes, I think, is hybrid-y a little bit.
That's cool.

Speaker 1 Clockmaker is definitely IP.

Speaker 1 And then mobiles track game of warfinal those are basically dead so yeah yeah that that clock maker is probably what 30% ads I guess maybe oh definitely yeah but like still like very heavy IP games like don't don't get me wrong

Speaker 2 which can you can argue like oh that's a different portfolio you have we've never run this before but

Speaker 2 honestly

Speaker 1 why do you think they bought it like what do you think the thinking is behind it just expansion and equipment

Speaker 1 diversifying their portfolio to be not only ad-driven

Speaker 2 maybe yeah that's one thing and also if you if you see what they can do with the the ads driven games like that scale and i'm pretty sure like well pretty sure i think so they could do same thing with all these games

Speaker 2 and scale it's like that's a lot of additional revenue honestly

Speaker 2 Because if, yeah, if you go, if you go to.

Speaker 1 But, you know, who says that they cannot add ad revenue into those games, that's the thing.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but like why?

Speaker 1 And how do you pretty much optimize quite well on ad revenue already?

Speaker 1 Yeah, but

Speaker 2 do you want to just duct tape ads on top of the IIPs that you have there?

Speaker 1 You can, like, segment it in second, third geos and stuff like that. Yeah, but we're always talking about how much effort would it be for what kind of

Speaker 2 potential additional ad revenue.

Speaker 1 I'm not saying like it's the saving grace there. Like, you know, it's also a question, like, what they plan to do with the studios.

Speaker 1 Like, do they just plan to kind of build new games with them, have much more potential for like IP-driven games, and like build it from scratch or stuff like that? Depends.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think this is a UAP play.

Speaker 1 Could be, could be, could be.

Speaker 2 We'll see. I mean, we'll see.

Speaker 2 We'll see what happens, but

Speaker 2 I can show you some of the some of the creatives and the

Speaker 1 creatives. I'm assuming they're quite simple and not that much well, if you remember for XE.
Nothing is simple if you're running against blockbuster. Yeah, if you're

Speaker 2 exactly like, look, I mean, this is last 12 months, the impression share is basically uploading. It's just uploading in Google.

Speaker 1 How much spend is this, do you think?

Speaker 1 400 million, 300? Because I'm just saying, like, if you bring an ad network 400 million in a year, they're going to be nice to you and they're going to be very friendly, right? Very, very nice.

Speaker 2 I don't think it's 400 million, although, yeah, that's too much.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 maybe

Speaker 2 two or three.

Speaker 2 I mean, we'll see, we'll see what Mark is gonna say again. Like, like the last time we met, he's like, I, you know, those estimates.

Speaker 1 Ah,

Speaker 1 anyway.

Speaker 1 Mark, come on and tell us the real one. I'm happy.
Like, I'm looking from the outside. Why don't you come and tell us the view from the inside?

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 you're invited.

Speaker 2 I wanted to actually

Speaker 2 not stop sharing, but sharing a different

Speaker 2 window here

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 you know, I think we saw this before.

Speaker 1 I mean, look at this. Here we go.
But, like, these are why ghosts have six six IQ. That's bullshit.

Speaker 1 I'm sure it's 190. No, but

Speaker 2 you know, you see Albert again. I'm not sure like who actually came up with Albert, but they're using it quite a lot with triple.

Speaker 1 Yeah, PlayDoke will basically put these levels into the game. Exactly.
Yeah,

Speaker 2 exactly.

Speaker 2 And yeah, like we even have, like,

Speaker 2 this is a replayable end card.

Speaker 2 There is a lot of displayable end cards, basically, which says just

Speaker 2 download. But here, this, you see it.

Speaker 2 I mean, like, this is just kind of

Speaker 1 blockbuster. This is just.
This is nothing new. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And it's so satisfying.

Speaker 1 But again, the question is: if it's blockless or is Vudoku to begin with? Exactly. Well,

Speaker 2 that's a good investigation. Maybe I'll do it in my

Speaker 2 creative investigation on Friday.

Speaker 1 We'll see.

Speaker 2 It's a lot of digging. It's a lot of digging.
And this goes back so many years that Sensor Tower doesn't even have that kind of data. But it's all like all this interesting stuff.

Speaker 2 You know, see, now we have

Speaker 2 some color, but again, like everything is the same. Then we have

Speaker 2 play a blend card like this and all

Speaker 1 these are all playables. And then we have, you know, 10 minutes to sharpen your brain.

Speaker 2 Brain power, the good old brain power, like psychic.

Speaker 1 Good old Einstein.

Speaker 2 Good old Einstein, but like, you know, like, I'm always talking about the good old Einstein, but good old Einstein, the first game I saw him in, it was Voodoku or Triple Triple Tar.

Speaker 1 And she's good.

Speaker 2 Also, the brain, the same thing. Like, they're using the brain power, the IQ, and all these hooks that you saw the hook on the very beginning.

Speaker 2 And this is basically all loving and then they don't even run facebook anymore which is uh i try is einstein ip protected

Speaker 1 um i don't is he like a disney is he like a disney character is disney own him

Speaker 1 who owns einstein who owns einstein

Speaker 2 like who owns einstein they also have this this

Speaker 2 yeah localized localized creatives and they had so many localized creatives uh in other languages and even in the in the app store they actually have like slovic language for voodok

Speaker 2 I was very, very, very

Speaker 2 surprised. And also,

Speaker 2 like I shared the screenshot from Apple Search ads, Blogblast is bidding on Voodoku, Voodoku keyboard. I mean,

Speaker 1 not only

Speaker 2 why not, yeah, why not? Exactly.

Speaker 2 We have this. Okay, this is kind of localized, but I think I wanted to see

Speaker 2 the other part,

Speaker 2 which is where's the

Speaker 1 yeah, oh, here you go.

Speaker 2 Now you now it's like it's it's all played basically

Speaker 2 just trying to

Speaker 2 to match all these animals and

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 2 This is the this is the fun part. It's just it's it's not that crazy as you would think it's very very simple but effective because they're running these credits for a while

Speaker 2 Okay, brain power and then here in here we have a different

Speaker 2 hook. I mean, this is like

Speaker 1 there you go.

Speaker 1 Is this

Speaker 2 Chinese

Speaker 2 mystery a coup?

Speaker 1 Do you know?

Speaker 1 I can't decide if it's Chinese.

Speaker 1 The characters are, by the way, the same, the canto for Chinese and Japanese. It's just the other ones are not.

Speaker 1 Ooh, a new angle.

Speaker 2 Yeah, a new angle.

Speaker 2 It's all these different.

Speaker 1 Do you think that's from what's it called? That the Korean show? Oh, I just forgot it.

Speaker 2 Korean show?

Speaker 1 Where they kill everyone. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Can you give me the screen? I want to show you.

Speaker 1 Squid games.

Speaker 1 Squid games.

Speaker 2 I want to show you the math crossboard as well.

Speaker 1 This was something they were running in August 2022.

Speaker 1 I checked the old creatives if I find something different. And like, yeah,

Speaker 1 Pac-Man Penguin.

Speaker 2 yeah, it's like the same thing, but I just show you how old are you?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's the same thing, but I didn't see anything like very different there. No, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 There are evergreen creatives as well that is work. Like, well, if you have

Speaker 2 upload, if you have uploading as a main channel, then you don't really need to change the creatives like 10 times a week.

Speaker 2 But once you look, this is the math

Speaker 1 crossword. Matt Crossword.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, good.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 he's AI animated.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's talking.

Speaker 2 There is... See, Zephyr Mobile.
See the CD here?

Speaker 1 There we go. Hello.
Watermark.

Speaker 2 There's voiceover.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but

Speaker 2 Zephyr Mobile is actually European.

Speaker 1 Guys, I looked it up. Okay.
So a California federal court ruled that Einstein's personality rights expired 50 years after his death.

Speaker 1 Since Einstein passed away away in 1955, his rights expired in 2005. Companies can now use his likeness in commercials without permission or royalty permits for girl hairs.
Einstein for everyone.

Speaker 2 Einstein for everyone. Yeah, look, it's like.

Speaker 1 Can we get Einstein to do our intro song?

Speaker 2 I mean, we can. We can use Albert, obviously.

Speaker 2 So I think the combination of brain, Albert, as a whole,

Speaker 2 an IQ and everything, it's kind of an brain age, it kind of works for the audience that this is aimed for. Like, this is just a female audience.

Speaker 2 And I'm kind of glad I don't see any Alzheimer's, to be honest.

Speaker 1 So, you mean that prescription that we saw last time?

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly, exactly. Look, if you go even

Speaker 2 like

Speaker 2 here, and then we go to triple

Speaker 1 tile,

Speaker 2 then you know

Speaker 2 it's not gonna be that different

Speaker 2 Okay, this is a little bit different.

Speaker 1 That's why I was nice 3D at least nice 3D yeah nice 3d.

Speaker 2 It's quite polished but you know like you see see what what this is all about the this one

Speaker 2 Yep, it's good sort basically and like the conveyor belts

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's basically good sort.

Speaker 2 It's basically a good sort. And then, oh, this is

Speaker 2 all

Speaker 1 AI Einstein.

Speaker 2 AI Albert. It's basically

Speaker 2 AI Albert everywhere. And there you go.
If we

Speaker 2 see,

Speaker 2 this is a nice one. Oh, new version available for this update.

Speaker 2 And this is it. 30-second video.

Speaker 1 Is that a re-engagement campaign, you think?

Speaker 1 Could be.

Speaker 2 Or honestly,

Speaker 2 nobody cares anymore.

Speaker 2 It just needs to grab your attention. So let's say you said

Speaker 2 August. Oh, this is my favorite.

Speaker 1 There we go.

Speaker 2 So, and this is just this is one minute long. So, do you have the brain types, obviously, here?

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 1 you have my own on top of it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, of course. And then,

Speaker 1 here we go.

Speaker 1 So, it's like royal match a bit, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it is a role match.

Speaker 2 It is, yeah, it's the same concept. It's the same concept that even I used in the in the credits because it kind of works.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2 So, I would say,

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 2 amazing.

Speaker 2 It works.

Speaker 2 Of course it works. This shit works.
So I would say again they know what they're doing. They have all the playables in the world, like so many different creative concepts

Speaker 2 and even for like the other

Speaker 1 doing with their headcount.

Speaker 2 Ooh, I think it's 400 people.

Speaker 1 400?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's not a small company. And also, I think you missed the fact that

Speaker 2 they had Ukrainian

Speaker 2 offices, but then they had to relocate people to Barcelona and somewhere else.

Speaker 2 Actually, so.

Speaker 1 It'll be nice running into anyone from Triple Dot. Mark has his way of looking at you like you're an idiot when you say something that's not true.

Speaker 1 So I'm looking forward to that if I was wrong in my estimates.

Speaker 2 Well, you know what we are not wrong.

Speaker 1 Thank you this thing for 120 truly.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I know what we are not wrong.

Speaker 2 They are absolutely printing money and they are killing machine in terms of the games and the UA and then ad monetization, like full stop.

Speaker 1 Like, there's nothing else. I mean, like,

Speaker 1 this is it.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 here we have it. Thanks very much, guys.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think that's pretty much it. See you at GDC.
We're going to be there. We have a party with Singular, Moloco, and Mobile Action on Tuesday.
I'll put the link in the show notes. And what else?

Speaker 1 Yeah, John Slack

Speaker 1 yeah. And if you like this type of content where we're actually doing a deep dive on a company instead of just individual games, let us know.

Speaker 1 Tag us in the comments and then basically we can do this on any other company that you want. What are you talking about?

Speaker 2 Like, this is our OG content. Like, we should have a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is our own content.

Speaker 1 People don't know that. People don't know that.

Speaker 2 With Rovio, like, what are you doing?

Speaker 2 You'll be soft. Yeah, it was quite some time ago.
All right. Thank you very much, guys.

Speaker 2 See you. See you next time.
Cheers. Bye-bye.