2.5 gamers x Live AM(F)A #8 - Ask Me Anything

Speaker 1 ECPM is 100% decided by a group of factors. So,

Speaker 1 algorithms for networks are all decided by various factors. Google uses 94 factors to decide ECPM.
Rumor has it that one of the factors is the weather.

Speaker 1 So, basically, they link the weather with whatever you're doing.

Speaker 1 App Loven has

Speaker 1 71 different factors. And apparently, what their algorithm is weighted towards is device quality.
So, how expensive your device is. Iron Source has 61, I was told by someone.

Speaker 1 But basically, there's like seven or eight main factors that decide what your ACPM is, and everything is tied back to

Speaker 1 it's 4 a.m. and we're rolling the dice.
Matei drops knowledge made of gold and ice. Felix with ads making those coins rise.
Check up designs, worlds chasing the sky.

Speaker 1 We're the two and a half gamers, the midnight crew, talking UA adverts and game design too.

Speaker 1 Matej feeling Shaku, bringing the insight We're rocking those vibes till the early daylight But JUA master eyes on the prize Tracking data through the cyberspace skies Felix stacks colors like a wizard in disguise Jackups crafting realms lift us to the highs Two and a half gamers talking smack Slow hockey sick, got your back Ads are beautiful, they like the way Click it fast, don't delay Uh-huh

Speaker 1 Oh, hello, hello, hello.

Speaker 2 Welcome. Let us uh let me actually ping the

Speaker 2 the Slack channel. Hello, everybody.
Thanks for coming for another live AMA.

Speaker 1 It's true.

Speaker 2 Yeah, finally, I mean, we lost one

Speaker 2 person.

Speaker 1 Yeah, to fatherhood. Parents.
fatherhood, yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So if you have any questions about...

Speaker 1 Who's this?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 The mustache man. Hey! How's it going, guys?

Speaker 1 Hello. Hey, welcome, welcome.

Speaker 1 The cheerful Finn.

Speaker 2 That was pretty good, intro.

Speaker 1 It was really good. Thank you.

Speaker 1 yeah still cheerful despite the the horrible luck that we've had in hockey for the past few days but uh oh man i have no idea what you're talking about yeah why don't you uh why don't you move to vietnam and launch a game yeah i guess i have to

Speaker 1 oh my god uh

Speaker 1 yeah this is fun

Speaker 1 good nice to have you

Speaker 2 yeah it's good it's good you you came yeah you came uh to visit us in our uh live uh ama which is actually eight 8-1.

Speaker 2 We lost the guy because Jakob is not coming, because he just had

Speaker 1 the child. Oh, I don't know if that's a free pass or not.

Speaker 2 Kind of, I guess. Kind of is.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I will see if

Speaker 2 we have actually any questions because it was kind of

Speaker 1 an intro, maybe, Yesi, and then tell us what you're working on, and then maybe I'll ask you some questions and then we'll get some brave enough to ask questions. Very interesting.

Speaker 3 Yeah, not a hockey player, even though I kicked off with hockey.

Speaker 3 So,

Speaker 3 yeah, we've been running Kiglab for a bit now. I'm one of the co-founders.

Speaker 3 Gianni was actually with you guys a while back as well, and he's one of us as well.

Speaker 3 Yeah, we've done ASO concept validation for about five years through Kiglab, and just for the past sort of two years, we've been developing like a iOS attribution and analytics tool that we've now been really, really focused on for the past half a year or so like actually doing doing things on that

Speaker 1 but yeah that's pretty much it look at feelings like whoa wait a second I know I have a question and I just want to ask straight away off the bat ASO takes a special personality to do how much is going to get replaced with AI like it should just seems to me that this is an AI task ASO

Speaker 3 yeah and I think the the entire like term ASO in itself as well is quite broad Like people think about keyword optimization, people think about like just general like more more about search engine optimization.

Speaker 3 The point is

Speaker 1 it takes a special person. That's a very important thing.
Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 3 So maybe to also maybe clarify a bit, so

Speaker 3 we've more been on the paid user acquisition side still, so focused more on like just making sure that whomever ends up on your App Store page actually will be converted to a install and maybe even be educated

Speaker 3 on that platform as well, so that when they come from a misleading ad, you'll be slowly transitioned into understanding what the game is all about.

Speaker 2 But can you talk a little bit more about the actual iOS

Speaker 2 framework that you are now fully focusing on? Yeah. Because that's interesting.
That's very interesting.

Speaker 3 Sure. Thanks.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, very, very short, kind of what we

Speaker 3 What we noticed was that

Speaker 3 all these frameworks that we've now put in place

Speaker 3 instead of like

Speaker 3 having access to IdFAS scan,

Speaker 3 they're still frameworks that focus on kind of user-level information.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 when it comes to making creative decisions, when it comes to actually running campaigns, you're not necessarily you don't have to dive into user-level information.

Speaker 3 So that's kind of our entire mentality.

Speaker 3 So what we did, we built up a new framework, a creative level framework that allows us to, we have an SDK that you put in the OKM or or a server-to-server solution as well, which does all the kind of sensitive calculations on device and then shares only like information that we can attribute on a creative level by creative

Speaker 3 on

Speaker 3 iOS. And because we're not using scan, we're doing everything in there, we're privacy compliant, and at the same time,

Speaker 3 everything works in real time, which is quite cool. And then for attribution, we utilize any kind of

Speaker 3 more things from e-commerce, I guess, so conversion API on meta and things like this on the self-attributing networks to then allow them to do their probabilistic matching and so on

Speaker 3 to attribute correctly. But

Speaker 3 yeah, that's kind of the high-level picture of what we did.

Speaker 1 What do we have Apple usually say about circumventing scan?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Like,

Speaker 3 but we're not we're not touching any of the things that scan is kind of. Exactly.

Speaker 3 So that's that's kind of the the thing we're we're we're we don't care about like what you guys specifically for breakfast we we care about what do people that eat cereals as a whole have in common right like so that's kind of the mentality in there

Speaker 2 yeah because you don't really need scan or just bypass the scan at all you know like Facebook is doing it tick tock is doing it so that's kind of easy but yeah we already have a question so when doing yeah when doing a soft launch for a new casual or hyper game, is it a bad idea to put the game up in all major countries, up stores, and then focus UA efforts in the countries you are testing?

Speaker 2 Honestly,

Speaker 2 it's not a problem or bad idea.

Speaker 2 There were times in the past where

Speaker 2 this would lead to not getting featuring. Maybe now it's also leading to that point where you can't get featuring because the game is out there already.

Speaker 2 But what if instead of doing this, you just go to a beta testing on Google and you can do basically the same thing, just go to all the countries, but then you are still in the beta. So you have that

Speaker 2 attack, which is called you know beta testing, and you don't really get the reviews or ratings and still out there and you can test it out. So I would do that.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Jesse, your mic is scratching your sweater a bit if you're gonna yeah oh sorry yeah perfect

Speaker 1 I thought you were you were you were writing something like

Speaker 1 you should write no you should write something

Speaker 3 I try it like this I don't know

Speaker 1 it's fine better

Speaker 1 yeah that's perfect yeah that's good I can think again I'm sorry

Speaker 3 yeah in regards to that hopefully people could still hear what you were saying with that this is perfect no this is good yeah this is good awesome

Speaker 3 but also like uh around BTC London there there was this Google for Games event.

Speaker 3 And they were actually going through a ton of pre-launch strategies and pre-load things, pre-launch things that they have.

Speaker 3 I can try to pull up, I have a horrible memory, so I can't remember by heart, but they were going on about as an example, how you can actually do different types of

Speaker 3 sort of, because they have like the internal testing, closed beta, open beta, so all this. And you can do those separately in separate geos as well.

Speaker 3 So you don't have to like kind of do it one for everything, but you can kind of define what your what your goals per like specific geo is and and go from there.

Speaker 2 It's good, that's uh, I think we discussed this also on the Think Games in Istanbul, where I was uh with Nimrod on the stage, and he was talking about exactly this: like going from the internal testing until you actually global launch.

Speaker 2 And I use it all the time, so that's that should be easy, that should be easy.

Speaker 1 Okay, so we have then summarize it just so

Speaker 2 what's summary is like you can you can launch worldwide, but you don't need to because you can be in different internal stage testing, alpha testing and beta testing stages for different geos and and you're you're basically doing the same thing,

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 2 you can then have

Speaker 2 actually a chance to get featured afterwards.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I have to quickly tap onto that. Like, yeah, you might not be able to get featured anymore.
And I might shoot like all the ASO, like, people in the leg here, but like, honestly,

Speaker 3 what's the actual... Like, it used to be featuring big kind of make it up breaky

Speaker 3 five, six, seven years back.

Speaker 3 But like, is it really anymore, right? Like,

Speaker 3 it's not the most important thing of your global launch.

Speaker 1 Even from an ads perspective, being featured is like,

Speaker 1 because the ECPM ECPM is terrible. Right.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but you know why it's terrible? Because you get shitty countries. That's why it's terrible.
If you get the majority of

Speaker 2 the countries, it's tier one, then it makes sense. But now it's

Speaker 1 kind of tough.

Speaker 2 Well, we have another question. Yes, so I heard that special characters like what's like, I guess it's dot

Speaker 2 in i ios ASO titles could count as double, count as double.

Speaker 3 So special characters, you mean

Speaker 2 like a hack dot or a comma or something? Is it a bug still?

Speaker 2 Is this bug still a thing? I got recommendation to avoid using all 3D characters if special characters are included.

Speaker 3 We haven't at least like it's not in my radar that that would be an issue.

Speaker 2 Yeah, this is the first time I'm hearing it, actually. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Interesting.

Speaker 3 Happy to check more on the on the on the Slack channel though if and hear more if if that's the thing Matthi, I have a UA question

Speaker 1 that I've been wanting to ask so this scan update that search ads did or Apple did yesterday that was all over LinkedIn, what's that all about? The view-through.

Speaker 1 Can you explain

Speaker 2 the Apple?

Speaker 1 Okay, so

Speaker 2 well, they're adding view-through attribution. So, basically, if you saw an ad

Speaker 2 Then you can be attributed to that ad, but it's like these days, Facebook is almost claiming all the all the installs because you know you check your phone and you see the Facebook icon, and then suddenly you're counted as an install.

Speaker 2 Jokes aside, so it's basically they would be counting now almost like all the impressions in the world as an install, and it's like basically driven by Apple Search,

Speaker 2 which is obviously not true.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 basically, what you're telling me is that if I saw, if you run a campaign and I saw an ad for that in this Apple search ads, then basically if I download that game two weeks later, they're going to be like, yeah, that was actually us.

Speaker 2 Could be, yeah, sorry, we are

Speaker 2 experiencing some issue, but it's solved.

Speaker 1 It was

Speaker 1 a problem.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Right. And I mean, I understood that for some extent it was available, but now they were like kind of pushing through the Ad Attribution API, which means that, yeah, then

Speaker 3 yeah, like they're they're part of the attribution game now as well. So not only the self-attributing networks and and app lobbins and but literally every network is now like

Speaker 1 we have another question from Silax.

Speaker 1 Have you ever experienced CPI campaigns outperforming ROAS campaigns? Should they ever run at the same time?

Speaker 2 Yeah, 2014, when there was no ROS campaigns.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I guess.

Speaker 1 Good answer.

Speaker 3 Maybe scale would be the only, like, if you, if you have like very, very, very, very minimal scale, so then it could be that,

Speaker 3 you know, you could achieve

Speaker 3 better results with CPI campaigns. Ask the attributions, like, you would get more conversion events back to the networks.
But

Speaker 2 yeah, that's the myth I'm hearing always, like, ah, you should run CPI campaigns to feed the VO or the ROS campaigns.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 2 I'm not sure how that kind of works. But then the part of the question is, like, should they run at the same time? Well, look,

Speaker 2 I run all optimizations, CPIs, app-event optimized campaigns, ROS campaigns, doesn't matter, and

Speaker 2 till they're kind of meeting the goals, right? So if they're producing results, yeah, why not?

Speaker 2 Rarely they do.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 2 usually, yeah, usually the CPI campaigns are quite bad in terms of

Speaker 1 cool. All right, so uh honor on ser has a question, really cool name by the way, like it.
Uh hi there, I run campaigns, uh install campaigns on Facebook for my mobile game.

Speaker 1 We send impressions to Facebook, but I don't use a third party solution such as Adjust uh or MMP. I sent these events from Facebook SDK, but ROAS is still locked, verified account.

Speaker 1 What do you suggest?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 what do you want to do? I mean, do you want to run the V value optimized campaign? If so, you need to get data.

Speaker 2 So you need to have for value, I think it was like 100 purchases, so that is unlocked. It doesn't matter if you have Adjust or

Speaker 2 whoever, singular.

Speaker 2 You can still do this tracking with the Facebook SDK, which is fine.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 what you need to do is try to run app event optimized campaigns for purchase,

Speaker 2 and then that's gonna unlock you or help you get unlocked the value-optimized campaigns afterwards. If this is around Adros campaigns, same thing, only this case is that you're actually gonna get

Speaker 2 the campaign unlocked quite quickly because you don't really need 100

Speaker 2 purchases for that, you just need some ad revenue coming in from the campaigns in the last seven days.

Speaker 2 So, Omer,

Speaker 2 if you can specify if you're looking for VO, that would be awesome.

Speaker 1 We don't know. I actually wanted to ask you a question as well, Matthew, because, like,

Speaker 1 I remember when we first started this podcast three years ago, we did an episode on soft launching and everything, or like testing for ideas of games, like the really early stages.

Speaker 1 And basically, I think your advice back then is just run campaigns on Facebook to landing pages. Is that still the recommended thing to do when you're ideating a game?

Speaker 1 Or is it somewhere else you should go?

Speaker 2 It's a good thing that we have yes over here because

Speaker 2 it was back then because about you still can do multiple things.

Speaker 2 You can have the landing page, but then you won't have the additional data right afterwards, after someone clicks on that landing page because there is no tracking.

Speaker 2 Well, we, you know, I work very closely with Geeklab, and we worked before because you can run, you can create that landing page or fake store page in Geek Lab as well, and then just use that as a link.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 2 my camera is shaking. And then

Speaker 2 what is really interesting and well, interesting, and important to do is to run actually a conversion-based campaigns because you want to kind of simulate the CPI campaign as much as you can.

Speaker 2 And with clicks,

Speaker 2 you are not doing that.

Speaker 1 Not even close,

Speaker 1 not even close.

Speaker 3 Echoing 100%.

Speaker 3 Like with clicks, you get the conversion rates on the actual landing pages, for instance, with nothing like you would in the real world. You get completely different audiences.

Speaker 3 So that loop is important. And then what we often do, it's still a thing

Speaker 3 in short, like

Speaker 3 but also depends a bit on the stage as well. So I guess now there's a lot of like more opportunities with Google, as an example.

Speaker 3 So if you have like someone of a data out, so you can actually then go for Google for these things where previously was only we were kind of the only option.

Speaker 3 But in the very early stage, you should still do it. And then after the landing page,

Speaker 3 you can have like a survey where you can ask like motivations and actually start to pay, like build up your player profiles and understand what type of users are actually coming through.

Speaker 3 Do they match?

Speaker 1 Emails.

Speaker 3 Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 So what would you be your advice if you're starting?

Speaker 1 You have a couple of ideas for making a game. Like, what's your best advice? How do you start?

Speaker 3 Just test, honestly. And now with AI as well.
The thing is,

Speaker 1 when you say test, you mean like test running it on Facebook or test like setting it up? Or what do you mean?

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Just test running it on Facebook.

Speaker 3 Then like if you don't have the resources,

Speaker 3 so even just doing it on Facebook is better than not doing it at all.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 if you have the resources, so so use us, use Splitmetrics, they they provide more or less similar services.

Speaker 3 So so just do that so that you'll get like the good picture and and and uh well, you guys know this even better. Like with AI now, like you're able to actually get to that testing stage a lot faster.

Speaker 3 And the thing I would say is that

Speaker 3 if if everything is equally unpolished, so then the test is valid. So you don't have to like kind of make the most polished final art, whatever.

Speaker 3 If it's unpolished enough, like equally, it's a valid test

Speaker 3 for the case.

Speaker 1 All right. So Silax is back with another question.
What up, what up? How are companies scaling tier three regions? From our experience, the MMP feels like T3 regions not profitable.

Speaker 1 Is there something we're missing?

Speaker 2 Of course it's not profitable when you pay five cents for CPI or for installs and then seven cents for attribution.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I remember last game

Speaker 3 back when I was working at Rovio that we like, or I was part of like team launching was Dream Blast.

Speaker 3 And back then we were like trying to do stuff on

Speaker 3 India. And

Speaker 3 that ended up costing us more

Speaker 3 than like actually get any like essentially ad revenue from there.

Speaker 3 I remember you guys have been talking about this too earlier where I think Felix you mentioned something about having great success where the timing was right and then there was like a big one.

Speaker 1 So it's during the it's every four years and it's during the Cricket World Cup, which is right after the Kabadi World Cup. And then for like for two weeks, basically Indian CPMs become

Speaker 1 I want to say Romanian, but not really Romanian. Let's just go with maybe Egyptian.
Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 No, but like back to the actual tier three regions, non-profitable. Yes, of course, like that adds a lot of

Speaker 2 the burden on the CPI. If this is the case for attribution, what we did or were doing with different gaming companies is just turning off the attribution for tier four or tier three countries.

Speaker 1 You don't care, right? Or I don't exactly.

Speaker 2 I don't care. I just, you can just use the SDK of Facebook or Google Firebase and just turn on the MMP

Speaker 2 and then use the solution that provides the UA channel because that's, yeah, that's

Speaker 2 really helps with the CFPI and LTV equation.

Speaker 1 All right, so makes sense. Oh, sorry, yeah,

Speaker 2 for Facebook RAS campaigns via ads, we don't have an option to send ads impressions on Facebook.

Speaker 2 Well, it's how like par like only half

Speaker 2 kind of pro like half of the problem because we don't have the full picture.

Speaker 2 What's the like what option you don't you are talking about if you just need to send the event, which is called add impression event, and you send it either via Facebook SDK or you send it via MMP period.

Speaker 2 There are different uh methods or just guidelines how to do it on App Slayer, Singular, and Adjust. But as soon as you have that event sending, which is let's for simplification, let's call it

Speaker 2 add impression event in the MMP SDK, you need to pair that with Facebook add impression event and send value as well. You do this, you're fine.

Speaker 2 I just did it with three different games in the last two weeks, and it works. You just need to set it up correctly.
If you want, hit me up on our Slack channel and we can discuss it.

Speaker 1 All right. Good answer.
So, Martin from MM Games. Nice.

Speaker 1 Everybody seems to be discussing UA and monetization

Speaker 1 segmentation in hybrid games these days, but nobody gives any insights how it's done. Any idea advances how and where to start?

Speaker 1 Things like having two monetizing segments in your game, the ad monetized segment for non-paying users versus IAP monetized, one for example. How do big, casual, and mid-core games usually do that?

Speaker 1 Ooh, that's a very good

Speaker 1 question.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 2 Take a sip and then just you can you can talk for 30 minutes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm going to talk. I'm going to talk.
talk. Okay, so uh, basically, the key to actually start doing segmentation, right, is

Speaker 1 that you just need to have IAP revenue and ad revenue. So, like, if you have 100% ad revenue, it's better to segment on things.

Speaker 1 We had a really good podcast you can check from Anatoly from Bernie Games, where essentially he kind of opened up the kimono a little bit, not too much.

Speaker 1 But basically, the hint that we got from that conversation is that they segment users based on ECPM, which was a bit counter-intuitive, because essentially they actually decrease the amount of interstitial impressions if they have a high ECPM, because they want to have a user for longer.

Speaker 1 So basically what they had built in was logic basically that checks every time an interstitial impression is served. And then if it's above a certain level, then they decrease the frequency.

Speaker 1 So it's not after every level, but every two levels. So basically that's logic you need to put into your code on your ad serving.
And when you put in kind kind of

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 1 serving logic, when you have an interstitial in your game, you can put that in on some code. So it's like an if and then statement where you pull the data from your mediation platform.

Speaker 1 So if ECPM is higher than $40, don't show interstitial every level, for example.

Speaker 1 Then kind of the gold standard, which I actually don't know how to do technically, maybe any one of you guys would know, but basically that is if you have a little bit of ad revenue and a a little bit of IAP revenue together, so it's hybrid casual, basically that you segment the users based on the type of user acquisition campaign you're doing.

Speaker 1 So basically if Matia brings a user using an IAP campaign, that means that that user is a premium user, right? So then you usually don't show ads for the first three days, let's say. And then if a,

Speaker 1 you know, organic traffic, which we said has bad ECPM, or if a ad ROS campaign brings a user, if you see that basically the string that the campaign that you're getting from the MMP comes from that user, then essentially you show ads as quickly as possible.

Speaker 2 Well, that's the technical side, Felix. You have the source and you have the attribution, the campaign as well.
And based on the campaign, you can show different ad experience.

Speaker 3 How do you guys get it on iOS?

Speaker 1 Ooh, that's a great question.

Speaker 3 Same as plug-in here.

Speaker 3 Nice. Yeah, you can try our attribution and analytics solution.

Speaker 1 Nice.

Speaker 1 Didn't see that coming, but it's smiling.

Speaker 2 No, but it's amazing because, yeah, like, how would you do that if you do if you don't, you know, you can't use it on, but well, that's the thing.

Speaker 2 You can't use it on user level, but you can do it on campaign level.

Speaker 3 Exactly. And even creative, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So each creative can have a different experience if you want.

Speaker 1 So, okay, nice. Yeah.

Speaker 2 There you go.

Speaker 1 Easy.

Speaker 2 EZ. I mean, obviously, I think you were discussing this like campaign uh ad segmentation multiple times felic that it makes so much sense yeah yeah

Speaker 1 i mean i like there's a there's a company in london also that's uh doing some interesting things uh where basically they're using ai to determine how many ads you should show to a specific users based on easy metrics

Speaker 1 i mean I am artificial and I am intelligence.

Speaker 1 Is it because I'm Botox? I don't know. know.
Or is it because I'm clever?

Speaker 2 And do you want to see something funny, actually?

Speaker 1 I do.

Speaker 2 Of course you do. Of course you want.

Speaker 2 Let me

Speaker 2 bring something up quickly. Where do I have the...

Speaker 2 Here.

Speaker 1 So.

Speaker 1 Anton from Saying Games was indeed the first one to talk about that, Martin.

Speaker 1 I'm glad you took something away from that podcast.

Speaker 1 Glad you enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 Can you hear the sound of the guys? Again, the previous UA Killer articles were super successful, so I started writing a UA Killer tip segment. I will keep sharing these tips.

Speaker 2 Don't worry, keep reading the tips. That's not you.
Me, of course, it's not really good.

Speaker 1 The English is way too good. Yeah, the English is way.
Yeah,

Speaker 2 that's the problem. Yeah, that's the problem.
But this is my AI avatar, basically.

Speaker 2 So I created myself.

Speaker 2 And the lip syncing is insane. Of course, the English is too good to be true, but I'm working on that.

Speaker 1 I'm working on that.

Speaker 2 They didn't clone my voice.

Speaker 2 I'm brutally honest. Yeah, it's like it's obviously it's not me, but still.

Speaker 2 I will definitely nail this because

Speaker 2 as you might have noticed, I'm talking about how

Speaker 2 this year the UA is more about creatives and how people need to be able to write a script, to

Speaker 2 a little bit of story here and there, and obviously make a video. So I want want to be you know I know I I

Speaker 1 really

Speaker 2 shoot a lot of videos when I was on the vacation and even now for the the playable trend and for some games like for a for a game which is modern combat mayhem I recorded myself playing with like a toy soldiers and it's like pee-bewo be stuff like that man it's killing it like that creative is really working well so so i'm yeah i'm doing all this crazy stuff because, well,

Speaker 2 this is what this is what you need to do.

Speaker 1 Just

Speaker 1 say, yeah, oh, sorry, go, go, go, go. Sorry, I was just quickly saying,

Speaker 3 yeah, and kind of the pattern that we've noticed both work. And then, when we look at like what's happening in the market, is that like you have that like

Speaker 3 normally horrifying CTR ad, like kind of being the core of it, but then you add something in the beginning, which is like a very solid hook.

Speaker 3 Could be even like a meme if you don't care about copyrights.

Speaker 3 But like, that's the interesting thing for me is like as soon as these video models, and we've been trying this out, it's not quite there yet, but soon it will be. So you'll be able to create like

Speaker 3 very actual meme like usage, like that looks something

Speaker 3 completely out of like the funny fail army videos or whatever that you have seen. And then you can put that as the hook.
You have all the copyrights, you can scale that up.

Speaker 3 You don't have to care about your like legal department getting tons of messages.

Speaker 1 It's crazy.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, it is.
Yeah, I wanted to ask more about the question we talked to that Martin asked about the segmentation on iOS and stuff.

Speaker 1 Like, are you allowed to, without naming any client names, or even if you can, like, what they're doing and how they're doing it? Because I'm just very curious.

Speaker 3 I was, I was, that was a bit of a shameless plug there because we actually haven't done that too

Speaker 1 well yet, but it's a technical capability.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so, so

Speaker 3 yeah, so what essentially just to paint you a big, very high-level technical picture, uh, it's an all-bill bullshit podcast, so I can't bullshit you guys.

Speaker 3 That's something we haven't yet.

Speaker 1 Followed up with a question that came clean.

Speaker 3 But yeah, technically, again, what we do is that we're able to, like, we send back to the SDK a creative token that essentially tells from which creative specifically the user came from.

Speaker 3 And then that's stored locally. And then you're doing all the like stuff for that creative token, right? So you can do whatever you want with that.
Like we're able to share that.

Speaker 3 We have the ways of sharing that directly with you. So, if you want to build logic within your game to actually have different

Speaker 3 things happening based on what type of a creative token it is, that's something that already technically we allow you to do because of the entire data flow that we have.

Speaker 3 But no one still has it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. YOLO with a heavy question.

Speaker 2 Wait, wait, did you talk about the previous, like, the future hurdles or issues we see coming

Speaker 2 for the IDFAs and cookies like are removed to track users and devices? Like is there trouble on the horizon for tracking?

Speaker 1 I mean

Speaker 1 duh,

Speaker 1 obviously.

Speaker 1 Like every

Speaker 1 valuation is looking very big.

Speaker 1 Ah, well look.

Speaker 2 There is maybe the Google Prize sandbox privacy, which was supposed to kind of come, but I'm not sure when it's gonna even happen.

Speaker 2 And there's always something cooking under the under the hood for for privacy.

Speaker 3 Yeah. But I mean, at the same time, they they just like re like define their policy in terms of IP address being used in in terms of fingerprinting as well.

Speaker 3 And and it's funny because you have like all these regulations saying one thing on the other side, and typically they're saying no to everything, right?

Speaker 3 But then truly what what kind of defines where the industry can go is is what the platforms say, what what actually Google and Apple say, honestly.

Speaker 3 And uh and now Apple's been kind of vague when it comes to all things probabilistic, right?

Speaker 3 And they've said, no, no, no, you can't do this. But then on the required reasons API, like it still has stuff that's very

Speaker 3 well, IP isn't there.

Speaker 3 And now Google just said, okay,

Speaker 3 this is actually fine. This is sort of the limit

Speaker 3 what we're going to

Speaker 3 put to fingerprinting, I guess.

Speaker 3 So hard to tell.

Speaker 1 Can I put on my tinfoil hat and share my theory about about iOS here? Yes.

Speaker 1 So basically,

Speaker 1 Apple was getting worried that Facebook was taking over and the iPhone would basically meta run because they were doing all the UA on iOS, right?

Speaker 1 So that's why they kneecapped by basically taking away the IDFA, right?

Speaker 1 So at the same time, Apple search ads scaled up, right, a lot. And in a perfect Apple world, you'd be paying all your UA money to Apple to get users to download your Apple ads, right?

Speaker 1 Because 12%, let me finish here. 12% of the Apple income, like the revenue, comes from the App Store in terms of IAPs, right?

Speaker 1 So they're dependent on people finding new apps, downloading and buying stuff, right? The trouble was that Apple search ads, you can't scale campaigns there, correct, Mate?

Speaker 1 To a certain degree, because there's not enough ad placements, right?

Speaker 2 It's not enough. It's not about ad placements.
It's because it's a different channel. It's intent-based.
If people don't really search for certain keywords, you don't have the impressions.

Speaker 2 That's the thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So my theory is

Speaker 1 that they still allow fingerprinting to occur on iOS because otherwise the IAP revenue on the Apple platform would go down by so much that it would hurt Apple's bottom line. So Apple

Speaker 1 logical move, the logical move here would be to build a DSP and open an audience network.

Speaker 1 So Apple search ads would be inside of an ad stack because that would take away the intent problem from Apple search ads and basically start competing on the open market.

Speaker 1 Then, since they allow basically tracking for Apple search ads, that's when you take out

Speaker 1 probabilistic stuff and that stuff in its knees, meaning that everything would just go to Apple search ads because they have an audience network.

Speaker 1 All right. Let's see what you hear.

Speaker 1 yeah all right great theory

Speaker 3 yeah i mean like a ton of it makes sense but uh um

Speaker 3 well at the same time uh

Speaker 3 in meta like they have three billion people using their platform like one of their services a month that's such it's such a vast like audience that uh like completely pushing that outside of like profitable scaling and marketing would would like it's hard to think that that would actually Apple could do that and secondly for them to to kind of be able to completely cut down probabilistic

Speaker 3 like technically that's not they can't like there's like

Speaker 3 well practically because there will always be a possibility for the developer to do some server-to-server side of things together with with the networks and and there always be these options

Speaker 3 the only way would be to basically loop all the traffic coming in and out of the games through their private relay,

Speaker 3 which essentially would cost them probably more that they could profit out of owning the entire ad space, right?

Speaker 3 So that's my take on it.

Speaker 3 But yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, look,

Speaker 2 the audience network and the DSP, I think you were talking about it a long time ago. And

Speaker 2 two

Speaker 2 is leaked. I know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 You know how long it takes to build a DSP?

Speaker 3 Two years.

Speaker 3 Four years.

Speaker 1 Four years. Four years.
Four years. That's what I've been told.
From scratch, it takes four years to build a DSP. It's coming.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Then we have one more year to go.

Speaker 2 Then we can discuss this.

Speaker 2 I don't think it's going to happen.

Speaker 2 I don't think

Speaker 2 they're actually building it.

Speaker 2 Is this based on the truth?

Speaker 1 Based on the hired 30 people, all demand side platform related in 2022. I don't know if they're still there, but I haven't seen anything about it yet.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 2 So we don't know. And also,

Speaker 2 admit it. Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 It sounds

Speaker 2 sounds and feels good on paper.

Speaker 3 And honestly, I think that can happen

Speaker 3 apart from the fact that they would be able to actually pull the plug on all things probabilistic. But I'm like, definitely

Speaker 3 them becoming a DSP essentially or opening. Do you care though?

Speaker 1 Then, because then we could just buy all our ads with tracking from Apple.

Speaker 3 But still, again, three billion people on MetaSlike Network.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 you you I don't think they're gonna have uh even close to the same amount of um

Speaker 2 people

Speaker 2 like App Lavin has on Macs,

Speaker 2 eighty thousand games, which definitely helps with algo, right?

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 it's even if they build it in four years, it doesn't really m mean that we are going to be able to use it to a certain scale and certain quality, because then you would still need to have a purchase optimization, an event optimization, a ROAS optimization, all of this fun stuff.

Speaker 2 Some of the bigger ad networks just added recently and they are on the market for a long time. So it's not that easy.
If it's happening, it's going to be

Speaker 2 2030.

Speaker 1 2028, let's call it.

Speaker 1 So 4AQHA2, he said it's true. He's building it.
So it's confirmed.

Speaker 1 Euro.

Speaker 1 You heard it here first. Yeah, you heard it here.

Speaker 3 Speaking of, by the way, what do you guys think about alternative stores? Like now, with

Speaker 3 specifically on EU lab, like regulations pushing it there now, now alternative. Aptoid, I think, just actually opened up publicly

Speaker 1 yesterday, I think, or so. But it wasn't.

Speaker 2 yeah, well, I mean, more stores, more um

Speaker 2 traction on the on the UA side of things, I can uh, and also pretty good

Speaker 2 deal for the developers. So, I don't honestly

Speaker 2 hopefully good for everyone, but I don't see that as uh as easy as it sounds again.

Speaker 1 Well, I tried to do this with a lot of money and they failed. Exactly.

Speaker 1 Yeah, network effects are really big, right? Yeah. So

Speaker 1 let's see.

Speaker 3 Exactly. And on Huawei, it was already even pre-installed in all the devices as well.
And yet they still couldn't get big games onboarded, even with the rewards and incentives and everything.

Speaker 1 They were paying people crazy amounts. There was rumors that Player Rix got offered millions to rebuild the game on Huawei stories and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 And it's still, and it's like that meme: try to make, try to stop making a thing. It's not going to happen.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but still, I mean, I can see

Speaker 2 a world where this gets some traction, but if it's going to like compete with App Store or Google Play, most probably no. The same thing with like Huawei or Samsung.
It had and still has some

Speaker 2 DAU and some games. But if you want to scale there, it's like it's not possible.
It's just not going to work.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 3 A fun thing regarding those as well, I just remembered actually now that Felicia mentioned Huawei.

Speaker 3 we

Speaker 3 back when they were really pushing this, it was three, four years ago or something.

Speaker 3 So, of course, they don't have any A-B testing or anything available on Huawei App Gala yet.

Speaker 3 So, they reached out to us, and we actually ended up building kind of for specifically the European and the Western market, like the sort of official A-B testing platform for them.

Speaker 1 I think you wasted your time for six months.

Speaker 3 100%.

Speaker 1 Okay, okay.

Speaker 3 I won't tell any revenue figures here, but you're going to love this.

Speaker 3 Guess how many tests

Speaker 3 did we actually end up running through Huawei App Store?

Speaker 1 Four.

Speaker 2 Tell us that it's right.

Speaker 1 100 points to Griffinder, like zero.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. Okay.

Speaker 1 You're coming a mile away. Oh, man.

Speaker 1 It's crazy.

Speaker 2 Oh, wait, wait, wait. We have questions, actually.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Yeah, yeah. YOLO Games is a painful one to read.

Speaker 1 Is there anything to be done when your App Store account is terminated for getting rejected for the same reason many times and the issue is still present?

Speaker 1 Then the follow-up question, is there any marketing thing you can do for Steam Games?

Speaker 2 Yeah, but that's different.

Speaker 3 I'm really sorry to hear that, by the way. That sucks.

Speaker 3 One, it's very hard to get like, unless you're at a certain stage, it's very hard to get actually on the line. And you have to be kind of a supercell to be able to actually get on the phone directly.

Speaker 3 And also, the rules are not fair, to be honest. Like,

Speaker 3 there are certain guidelines on the app stores that you have to follow, but no one follows those.

Speaker 3 And, of course, we've seen them over and over again.

Speaker 3 Like, if you have a Forex game and you're showing actual gameplay, which is essentially maps with a UI that has a lot of different red notification icons in it, it's not going to convert as well as something that actually portrays your characters nicely.

Speaker 3 So, and

Speaker 3 that the second one is something that is not allowed by Apple's guidelines. It should just be screenshots from the actual game, right?

Speaker 3 And we've noticed that like during like when they get like a lot of, I don't know why it is, but like

Speaker 3 it could be, now this is my teamfile, okay? But like

Speaker 3 before the summer, we see a lot of rejections happening as well.

Speaker 3 So it could be that they have like some eager like trainees coming in or whatever that actually go go through the list like item by item. Yeah yeah

Speaker 3 and uh yeah like we've seen things get rejected because a corner of a app review video that had a play button like was missing of the play button.

Speaker 3 Whereas at the same time you have cinematic trailers that are getting

Speaker 2 yeah, yeah all the AI bullshit stuff that we see on the on the UAS and then it's it's in the store as well. Like how is that even connected to yeah to to the game?

Speaker 2 Also the the freezing families in the in the video and then on the store and the first screenshot no rejections yeah i mean come on

Speaker 2 that's how it works it's just some you know what you need to do just re

Speaker 2 resubmit no change and you're good

Speaker 1 does that work a lot yeah

Speaker 1 so many times

Speaker 2 No, it's like it's unfortunately, but it's, I guess,

Speaker 2 said, it's just the rejections like this, it's just random, and someone really eager to make it and is like kind of doing this, and that's it. That's pretty much it.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 the Steam games, the marketing for Steam games.

Speaker 2 Do you have any shameless plug, mister? Because what I heard when I worked on a few Steam games, like

Speaker 2 you have a solution

Speaker 2 how to run some interesting stuff on the Steam side.

Speaker 1 Is there anything you don't solve? Like Huawei A-B testing?

Speaker 3 We've tried a lot of stuff. And I'm happy to say that on Steam, the amount of tests is not zero.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's not zero, yeah, because I ran at least one, so it's not zero.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 3 and we have some testimonials as well. So

Speaker 3 there must be more. That's good.
No, but yeah, like honestly, like for the question itself,

Speaker 3 when you think about it,

Speaker 3 players are players, viewers are viewers, so kind of the same methodology is applied to to whatever in a certain extent happens in mobile marketing can be applied

Speaker 3 in Steam as well. The differences are then in terms of the technologies and the stack that you use.
What we've done is that we have like

Speaker 3 a testing, like you can test the actual store layout through our like the same landing page

Speaker 3 formula that we talked about earlier here. So essentially driving from ads directly to landing page, we use add to wish list rather than like actually

Speaker 3 the actual value to get more conversion events to better understand like kind of how the page works. But that way you'll be able to test out what

Speaker 3 page actually converts the message in a good way.

Speaker 2 So, but in terms of the whole marketing for Steam, so again,

Speaker 2 the campaign logic is the same, it's just different optimization. So, I use Facebook, I use Google,

Speaker 2 I even use TikTok. There's Reddit kind of ads that I tried before.

Speaker 2 I need to work with Reddit ads a little bit more because I was treating it almost like a Facebook where you just go broad and then let algo to do the magic. Well, Reddit is not there yet.

Speaker 1 So you actually need to do a

Speaker 2 lot of targeting on that side. But

Speaker 2 what I'm doing usually is either a landing page where I track the buttons and basically, like you said, add to wish list and send it back to Facebook, Google, and TikTok as an event, and then optimize for that into campaigns.

Speaker 2 So it's kind of, it's almost like an installer up event optimized campaigns on

Speaker 2 mobile. So

Speaker 2 nothing that different. You just need to know that you run the landing page instead of Steam because there's basically no Steam, well, very limited Steam attribution.

Speaker 2 You can use the UTM tags to just identify the campaign, but

Speaker 2 the event optimization on the landing page brings you better quality of the users rather than just using clicks and sending people to Steam page.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 you add one step

Speaker 2 in between the actual Steam page and

Speaker 2 your ad, but it's worth it.

Speaker 2 It's absolutely worth it because the quality increases dramatically.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then you need to do

Speaker 2 a landing page conversion optimization and landing page testing. And, you know, it's it gets a little bit more complex, but still,

Speaker 2 I remember those days. It's basically like you you're running a landing page for any any other web b based games.

Speaker 2 It's you know, you lo you you run short landing page, long landing page, different buttons, layouts, visual designs, and all of the fun stuff. So, but yeah, the campaign logic

Speaker 1 basically the same.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 2 Felix.

Speaker 2 Martin was wondering if you heard about any games doing these segmentations and the numbers of different segments present in the game. Because it's also quite a big amount of work to do for a studio.

Speaker 1 Look, like if you have a small studio and you don't have that much, like the easiest thing is just that you basically change serving logic by country.

Speaker 1 So like I was operating a game at one point that was making 50 to 80k a day and basically it was a very lean team and

Speaker 1 basically all we did was just increase in geos by 25% the interstitial show rate. So the timer and basically that's segmentation by super simple.
And then we just looked at the retention, right?

Speaker 1 So like if you don't want to make it complicated, you can just change that. Like for example, go to Indonesia and increase the amount of interstitials and see if the retention is the same.

Speaker 1 Like that's still segmentation, right? So like most games that are ad-driven that I work on, they do have some sort of form of segmentation, but it doesn't have to be hard, right?

Speaker 1 Like, it can literally, that is segmentation. In Indonesia,

Speaker 1 just show more ads, like have a lower cooldown period. In India, in whatever, like, that's okay too.
That's segmentation.

Speaker 1 But the thing is, once you start, it's usually easier to keep going with the harder stuff because you know it adds value. So, just start with something simple.
Uh, like, yeah,

Speaker 1 Indonesia, like all these ones that work work, they don't care as much about ads, and see how it goes.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 2 oh, there was a message deleted, and I hope you will repost it. Okay, we are small.
Well,

Speaker 2 fuck, now it's it's just jumping. Okay, now it's

Speaker 2 okay, retrack it. Anyway, so we have that two apps being relatively equal: audience, gameplay, retention, etc.
Why could one game have only half ECPM of the other?

Speaker 2 Ooh, would it be because of placements?

Speaker 1 So basically

Speaker 1 ECPM is 100% decided by a group of factors. So

Speaker 1 algorithms for networks are all decided by various factors. Google uses ninety-four factors to decide ECPM.
Rumor has it that one of the factors is the weather.

Speaker 1 So basically they link the weather with whatever you're doing.

Speaker 1 App Loven has sixty uh seventy one different factors factors, and apparently, what their algorithm is weighted towards is device quality. So, how expensive your device is.

Speaker 1 Iron Source has 61, I was told by someone.

Speaker 1 But basically, there's like seven or eight main factors that decide what your ACPM is, and everything is tied back to the performance that networks see of the ads that they show in your game on a seven-day rolling basis.

Speaker 1 So, if the performance from the ads that they're showing is not converting, giving them money, they will pay less for your users.

Speaker 3 That's all it is.

Speaker 1 Simple as that, right? It's not a conspiracy, it's just capitalism at work, right?

Speaker 1 So what are the seven or eight main factors that contribute in the most weighting? And those are the ones that usually every network has access to. So the first one is geo, very simple.

Speaker 1 Are you in the US or are you in Angola? That will be different ECPM that you're going to be paid out for those users because of the purchasing power, right?

Speaker 1 The other thing that is also given a lot of weight is: are you running a lot of UA? And did the network that sees the UA or that sees the user in the mediation, did they also bring that user?

Speaker 1 So if Matie buys a user on Mintegril and then basically it shows up in my app, and then inside of the mediation platform, Mintegril sees that user, they have data that tags that GID or IDFA with a bunch of data in their platform.

Speaker 1 So that becomes meaning that they can bid more accurately, so higher or lower for that user. So basically, are you doing a lot of UA or not? Then also, are your users converting a lot?

Speaker 1 So basically, do you have 80% IAP? Are you showing those purchasers also? Because that's valuable to, let's say, a Forex game that will bid a higher ECPM. Then you get into the other things, right?

Speaker 1 That also has an impact. One of the biggest things is also the recency effect.
And what does that mean?

Speaker 1 That essentially means that networks assume that we're all stupid because we basically lose interest over time. So basically, that means that

Speaker 1 the first impression that a user sees per day is called first look. And that is worth more because essentially users have more attention.

Speaker 1 So basically, the value of each ECPM per impression on an impression level decreases as you show them more throughout a session or day.

Speaker 1 So, an idle game, which shows 18 impressions per day, the 17th impression is going to be worth pretty much like

Speaker 1 so much less than the first one. Some things you can do to kind of spoof that, that app loving tries to fight.
But basically, those are the main factors that decide like what it is.

Speaker 1 So, in summary, like what's happening in your two games, one converts better than the others for user acquisition campaign than the other one. And that's where the delta in the ecpm comes from.

Speaker 1 Or maybe the weather, maybe the weather.

Speaker 2 So, we have

Speaker 2 two more questions, but I will start with this one, which is which was retracted, but now it's finally up there. So, we have a daily budget of $1,500.

Speaker 2 Daily budget, it's not bad, actually. Does it make sense to test different UA channels or stick to one?

Speaker 2 We are using Unity ads currently, and mediation is level play. We create puzzle brain games.
Felix, well, what do you say?

Speaker 2 Felix, as a second best manager, or UA manager on the podcast, what do you think?

Speaker 1 Should they use only one channel or more? You need more channels, and you should maybe switch.

Speaker 2 You should make switch mediation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yes, you go, and I will, I will.

Speaker 3 I was just about to say that there was a rumor going around that

Speaker 3 said,

Speaker 3 according to there was something that leaked out of something in Meta that showed that if you spend $1,500 a day, which again, like it's a good number, but it's of course like, what, that's up to half a million a year.

Speaker 3 No, no.

Speaker 3 Well, sorry, two late

Speaker 3 max now. Yeah, anyways.

Speaker 3 But according to that,

Speaker 3 you would have been in like a segment that Meta called like the top 5%,

Speaker 1 which

Speaker 3 that was actually going around in a lot of these Slack groups. Not sure if that's the case, that you would actually actually be part of the top five spenders in meta with 1500 a day.

Speaker 2 Okay, interesting.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 the thing is, with

Speaker 2 1,500 a day,

Speaker 2 running Unity only,

Speaker 2 good luck, obviously, as you have the level play, which makes sense. We if you run Unity, I would run iron source rather than Unity in this case, but

Speaker 1 okay,

Speaker 2 you should definitely try other channels. I mean, there is the UA diversification

Speaker 2 topic that I'm talking about all the time. I mean, what if Unity dies?

Speaker 2 You are screwed. So

Speaker 2 I would take 20% of that budget

Speaker 2 and try

Speaker 1 Google, try

Speaker 1 Facebook.

Speaker 2 Apple, I mean, it's not going to work, but then

Speaker 2 other channels as well, Mintegral. And I mean, slowly, step by step,

Speaker 2 diversify this. So you actually have that 1500.

Speaker 2 What's gonna happen, I believe, this is gonna increase because you will get better results on the other channels.

Speaker 2 So you will have more money on your bank account and you can spend more. So definitely make sense to test others.

Speaker 2 If you can say what kind of monetization you have, that would be also helpful because that can allow you to pick

Speaker 2 the right channels for you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, is it is it like puzzle brain games that are like impulse where it's 70-30? Or is it like puzzle games where it's like 100% ad games?

Speaker 2 And how is puzzle brain games like impulse?

Speaker 1 That is a brain training game. I don't know if it's a brain training game, but it is a game.

Speaker 2 It's an app, which is a game.

Speaker 2 I know, I know, I know.

Speaker 1 You'd be the arbiter of truth here. Who do you side with? Me, who's right, or Matte, who's wrong?

Speaker 3 I'm going to be a very, very good Finnish politician here.

Speaker 3 On the app store, I think the category is under educational.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 in LinkedIn, those are gold games, of course.

Speaker 1 I thought you were going to say, like, in the Finnish way, like, it doesn't matter as long as Russia doesn't invade.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 It's all ads driven. All ads driven, yeah.

Speaker 2 In that case, Facebook address campaigns can work. Also, Google Adros campaigns can work.
It doesn't matter what kind of optimization you have, mediation you have.

Speaker 2 So, I would definitely go there as a next step, at least. And then we have another question.
I think that's going to be one of the last ones.

Speaker 2 I've heard that uploading is much better at Adros campaigns compared to others for an idle game. Is this true?

Speaker 2 If you're on Max mediation, then yes. If you're not, then

Speaker 2 you can't run Adros campaigns. Well,

Speaker 2 for idle games, I think that was the case for a long time. There was a very large portion of games, idle games running Napolabin with quite a big success.

Speaker 2 So I would say, I would incline to say it's kind of true.

Speaker 2 Because yeah, but I would also run other channels for Adroas.

Speaker 2 Because the Facebook has it, Facebook will soon

Speaker 2 implement day seven ROAS from what I've heard

Speaker 2 on Adros so that can improve some numbers

Speaker 1 cannot

Speaker 1 deny because I'm never on a UI campaign but this has been a lovely episode

Speaker 2 it keeps giving me missing object notifications okay So last comment. Meta keeps giving me the missing object notification for meta ads.
How do I get past this? Log out, log in.

Speaker 2 First thing, second thing, uh, create the campaign from scratch, don't duplicate anything, and also uh,

Speaker 2 might be just a bug that disappears tomorrow because that's what usually happens to me

Speaker 1 all the time.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so yeah, and there's so I kept this for the end because there is a person. Hi, guys, I got here late.
Can I know what services Geek Lab offers?

Speaker 1 So, oh, lovely. Yeah, there you go.
Well, this is cool. Thank you.

Speaker 3 How much does that take?

Speaker 1 10 minutes, okay?

Speaker 3 No, I'm just going to keep it very short. Thanks, thanks, though.

Speaker 3 But yeah, so first, if you're about to launch a game, we help you with concept testing, validation, understanding who your audience is.

Speaker 3 And then, when it gets to actually acquiring users, specifically on iOS, where you have issues with attribution and analytics,

Speaker 3 we'll help you solve all those without scan, without

Speaker 3 actually even mmp as well so it's completely outside of that nice awesome yeah thanks for coming yes it was great uh we we will have fun yeah we would love to have you again at some point yeah i was actually learned ton from felix and and you as always so thanks thanks for for for having me as well Awesome.

Speaker 2 Also, dear listeners, thank you very much for coming.

Speaker 2 We will do this again next month, actually, and I will let you know a little bit more in advance because I will be at GDC but then after I come back from GDC we should do it so it counts with like end of the month see you there thank you very much

Speaker 3 thank you

Speaker 2 okay I ended the stream on YouTube but now I'm stopping this here