How to increase your profitability with Cross-promotion? A step-by-step guide with Gonçalo @ Boombit

At some point, you're talking about spending around 200k, where we're seeing that the overall profitability across all networks starts to be good. But we see that cross-promotion is still by far the main source on profitability outside of organics.
It's bringing us around 20% of the profitability, while the impact on scale is much lower. Because as soon as you start marketing, there's nothing that you can, you cannot fight up live and meet the girl Facebook.
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Hello, everyone. Welcome.
This is Two and a Half Gamers. My name is Matija Lanceric.
I'm Felix Broberg. And I'm Jakub Remier.
We are your hosts and we are going to talk about cross promotion. And we have a special guest, Gonzalo from BoomBit.
Welcome to the show. Can you first start with a brief introduction about yourself, company, and then we're just going to go straight in.
Let's do this. Let's do this.
Thank you, guys. Thank you for inviting me.
So my name is Gonzonzalo i'm vpo marketing at boombit boombit is a mobile game publisher we produce and publish games all the way from hyper casual simulators mid-course we've been in the industry for a while and i've been actually yesterday i did four years at boombitit, which sounds crazy. Time flies.

Feels four months.

Before that, I was at OMA right in the beginning of Hypercasual.

I was like the first user acquisition manager at the company. I remember my first job was to just set waterfalls per country.

And no one was even doing that.

It was just one waterfall for all the time.

Nothing more fine and more honorable in this world than anyone who started with ad monetization. Man, exactly.
And it teached me so much. So it's been a super nice ride and now I'm here.
Perfect. Welcome.
And I think we discussed this when we were at the AppFest in Barcelona. The casual discussion about, oh, you know, what's happening.
Oh, you know, we do cross-prolure. Huh.
Let's talk. Let's see.
Because we tried, I think, back in the days with Pixel Federation, it was okay, I guess, kind of with different launches. And then people are trying to do this nowadays as well, but always saying, my God, it's tough.
We don't know how to do it and all of the different things around it. So how are you doing it like why why why you are great like what's let's do it yeah what's happening let's spill the beans yeah so maybe i can just share my screen i did like a small presentation and i think it could be like super good to go just out of curiosity so so boom bit is public right like what's the what revenue, roughly, so the listeners kind of understand the kind of sums we're talking?

So right now we're talking about revenue for the company itself.

It's around $70 million a year.

Then, yeah, the debt is available.

$70 or $17?

$70.

Yes.

Perfect.

$60 and $70. Yeah.
It Really depends on how the server will finish. Okay.
And like I said, it's not public, right? So we don't know. Give you a range.
We, like I said in the beginning, so we have a lot of hypercasual titles, right? And then we have mid-core titles, we have simulators there in the middle with around like 30 ip so we are working with games that have 99 ads in terms of monetization games that have 95 ip in terms of monetization so we felt that there was a need here to start cross promoting our users we have around 2.5 million daily active users but within very different genres, right? So we thought that there was the need to not lose these players within their own genres and try to cross promote and generate as much as we could. That's what everyone says and no one does it because I have tried so many times with so many companies

and it never works.

So I don't know

what's going to be special about us,

but let's try and discover.

Maybe we're going to discover here

the four of us.

There's four reasons why you do it.

These are the first three.

Of course, the main reason

is because of privacy, right?

You said, Matej,

that you tried Pixel Federation.

That was a long time ago. That was a long time ago.

That was a long time ago.

Privacy wasn't a thing yet.

Exactly.

So it wasn't a thing.

I missed that.

And I think there is an opposite correlation between having tougher and tougher user acquisition due to privacy

and then seeing cross-promotion just like a bigger chunk of your profitability.

So that is for sure one of the main reasons.

Then, of course, you start seeing that there was this small pockets of users

that are enjoying our titles inside of BoomBit,

especially if you go to the mid-core side.

Now we have Ant Royale, we have Clash of Destiny that is from the same developer and the cross promotion between those titles is crazy we have darts club the club's title darts baseball archery the correlation and the conversion inside of those titles is massive compared if you want to move a darts player to to hunt and at the same time, we noticed as well that losing a player costs you much more than try

and move it to another title.

And then maybe you're going to lose a bit of revenue generation within the title where

the user is, but at least it's going to cost you much more if you're going to do user acquisition.

And it's within the company.

Of course.

Yes, of course.

And it's definitely within the company.

Thank you. the user is, but at least it's going to cost you much more if you're going to do user acquisition.
And it's within the company. Of course.
Yes, of course. And it's definitely within the company.
But of course, the reason number one is this one. One question.
Does your, or do your teams also fight between each other? Because they, at least back in the days, I'm not saying the name of the company, obviously you already heard it. There was this problem with, oh my God, but it's my player and it's generating revenue for my game.
Why should I send it to your game and then it's going to be in your P&L, not mine? Yeah, 100%. So let's not say they do not fight.
There is some kind of discussions going on, on right at the end of the day we are lucky in the sense that the same product owners they are the ones in charge of almost the genre itself

we have an upper casual product owners we have the clubs of product owners we have the mid-core

product owners so then cross promotion tends to be naturally within their own genres

Thank you. casual product owners, we have the clubs of product owners, we have the mid-core product owners.
So then cross promotion tends to be naturally within their own genres, which is good.

So back in my head, the CEO used to walk in and he just clunk everyone's heads together.

That worked.

Yeah, that worked as well.

Like that's how it started a little bit.

And then we started seeing that there was a CPM correlation between genres and then

like, okay, let's not create any issues here.

Thank you. started a little bit and then we started seeing that there was a cpm correlation between travelers and then like okay let's not create any any issues here so but yeah so the biggest the biggest uh reason why you're doing this is because it has like a really good impact on our profitability and in an incremental way almost uh right now of course taking organics as a network it's taking around 35% of our profit.
Then there's one SDK green network that is generating around 20% of our profit. Then there is a blue social network that is generating around 14% of our profit.
And then there's cross promo, like right away, which, you know, for us, it's very significant. And also on top of all of that, it's a super reliable source.
It's a source that doesn't change with black Friday, with Christmas, with low, you know, but the summer season is the only metric that really is impacting more or less performance of cross promo is the active users. And that is something that we are controlling so it's something that it's it's very good to follow and to trust would you would you say it is also resilient to like competitor games like to let's say if another like archery game goes in or darts club game or something similar there if it's resilient i would say so even though still like having novelty is like the new game a game that is new is going to have of course much better conversion like when we launched i'm even thinking like the most recent hyper casual was downhill racing it was not it was the source as a destination, but it was then, of course, the number one source as the source side of things because then you start having a lot of new users, even coming from the normal marketing, that they are fresh users, very active users, and then they're going to churn a lot to cross promotion.
But of course, then on all your other portfolios where you're showing this new game, there's going to be a lot of conversions as well, because it is a new game. We have four placements.
I don't know here. Okay, let's start with this and then we can go into the game itself.
Maybe you can show darts. But we have the classic square, we call square called embedded completely incremental, right? That it's not fighting against any of that driven ad placements.
It's showing the most amount of impressions by far, but also has lower conversion. Still surprising me every day.
How many people are converting, but yeah, so that's the, one of the main ones that we have interstitial and rewarded for this ones. Of course, we are always trying to do it mainly on no fill and on pre-fill.
So of course, as you know, no fill, it's when an ad network is not able to, doesn't have any ad impression ready or cached. And then we go, when we jump with our own cross promotion, but as well pre-fill.
As you know, a lot of titles, they need the first five seconds. An ad, either a reward that's normally not an incestition, so mainly rewarded.
And whenever the network didn't have the time to select what impression to show, we show a cross-promotion because some users need that placement right away. Question.
Yeah. More questions.
I have so many questions. Go for it.
If Embedded Interstitial and Banners together, like 100%, right? How many percent of cross-promoted users comes from a bandit so i would say around 50% interstitial and rewarded then i would say 20% embedded and then 30% i'm going to show it's the next placement that is what we call more games So the majority for sure from Interstitial and Rewarded may be embedded, maybe sometimes even a bit less, like 15%. And then the rest is going to be from more games, which is basically a placement that is actually kind of like a tab within every game that we have.
So you can click on more games, either if it's in the main menu, it's in the offers place, and then you're going to have all these offers available that you can click right away, you know, and download the game. This one tends to bring like the best LTV users and the users with the bigger retention because they have time to select the games.
If they are downloading the game, it's not because they are forced by an ad. And this was for sure something that's been like super, super valuable for us.
This is basically a G&W formula now, isn't it? You have this kind of like buffet of almost the mini games. yeah yeah choose what you want that it looks a little bit like mini games and yeah there there we go which brings me by the way to my other questions like if if the game gets offline do you still able to feel it with the yeah as you said no fill setup for sure so we have it's in one of our next slides we can definitely talk now.
We tend to cache one interstitial and two embedded. So it's not a lot, of course, but it is cached.
And then in terms of, you know, if the user clicks, of course, it doesn't go anywhere. We are not like registering the click, et cetera.
But that we always have the cross-promotion cached for the pre- pre-fill for sure what happens by the way if the user goes out then and he has no internet so he can actually download the game from the store itself we are like uh like a network within apps flyer so we have set up in exactly the same way as uplevin as integral so do have the impression, we have the click, we have the install. And then of course we have the revenue and we have a normal tracking link.
So that's, you'll see it for sure. Yeah.
It's like if you click and then there's no internet, then it just kind of goes, I guess, nowhere, or maybe just goes offline. So install on zero megabytes and get stuck there goes I guess nowhere or maybe just goes if you're offline

install on 0 megabytes

and get stuck there I guess

that's not going to happen

yeah so I would assume

you're asking me like if you click on it

while online and then

you go offline and you

come back and install the game but it's still

the same yeah of course if you

click on it while offline

it's going to show you nothing it's going to show you like a loading store

yeah yeah loading store that's cool

Thank you. come back and install the game.
But it's still the same. Of course, if you click on it while offline, it's going to show you nothing.
It's going to show you like a loading store. Yeah, a loading store that probably gets stuck, I guess.
Yeah. So, yeah.
So if you want, like we can, here are some numbers, but we can, this is just impressions. So no installs, but we can go add installs after when we're looking at the dashboard itself.
But maybe, I don't know if you guys want to show Darts Club in real life how it looks. I really do.
I just had one more question about the preload app, right? Yeah, of course. So I'm assuming since it's preloaded, you send an ad request when a user requests like a rewarded, right? So then while the rewarded is loading, you then show your own rewarded ad or an ad for like a couple seconds.
And then that ad goes away as soon as the rewarded ad is loaded. Or do you play it for 30 seconds? Yeah, I think it's more they ask for the rewarded.
We gave it like two seconds to see if there is any impression.

If there is not, we take over and then he's like, okay, we lost the ads.

If after like 15 seconds and network answers and yeah, so we just take fully over, I think it's more like that.

Okay, cool.

Okay.

That makes sense.

Because, you know, I think, I mean, and we noticed, right?

If the user needs to double the coins, right, in the first session,

and he's waiting three seconds, and then he gets the pop-up,

like there's no ad, he's not going to keep refreshing and trying.

He's just going to basically ignore the double.

So that's it.

Cool.

Well, if you give me the screen, I'll do a little share. Yes, okay.
I have to give you the screen. There it is.
Yeah, yeah, the double. Cool.
Well, if you give me the screen, I'll do a little share on Darts Club. Yes, okay.
I have to give you the screen. There it is.
It's yours. Alright, so guys, take a trip down memory lane because we've all worked on Darts Club.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. That's very true.
That's amazing. At one time or another, this is the game that won't die.
Yes. All right.
So tell me what to do. Yeah, of course.
If you go to collect, you're going to see more games. So there, or you should.
That's beautiful right away. So it should be like as part of the offered.
Or maybe just go to the basket at the bottom. Yeah.
The the left inside. Yeah, there you go.
Okay. Should be right away on the top.
I'm just wondering if the issue here is that because you haven't moved a lot further. Ah, there you go.
So more games. Right here.
So in the middle. So this is the more games tab.
And basically, you know, for now, you will see we tend to show like bowling club first on the top we tend to see archery which is also a game from the club team and then right there i remember designing that core gameplay and then it's basically like this sometimes we do have as well videos i don't know why they're not showing but the biggest no the biggest advantage especially of the top offers is when you are having a new event in a game especially like you're having a new event in archery and you want to move like a few users to this type of game um you want to move like a few users to archery because you know a couple of days it's going to be an event. It's a good placement to prioritize the offers.
Because the event produces revenue spikes. And the question is now, you saw Felix had a big problem to actually find this.
Do you have any other placements on the home screen? Or do you have a pop-up? Do you? Yeah, exactly. We do on the hyper casual side.
So I think you also have Shipram Jump, right, Felix? Yes, I do. So on ship, you're going to have everything.
Okay. Let's go.
Don't worry to have an ad right away? Don't worry.

Farm gem.

Farm gem.

You can see that straight away.

I can see it in the left bottom corner.

Thank you for that impression.

Just think how many extra impressions this impression is going to get.

Is this an interstitial?

Yeah, it's on the most aggressive in-card format.

Nice. Okay.
Okay, good. Yeah.
Tap to move, man. Play the game.
You can cross promo now, Maciej. Okay.
You can play later. Oh my god.
I'm actually playing this game, so I want to talk about it, but it's not there yet in terms of the revenues yet. So here you are.
So that's the square, the embedded one, which is very, no, on your face as is in the main menu. Then, as you can see, along the ramp itself, and you should play the level because you're going to see so many.
It is, there you go. One, two, three, four.
So this one, the base of it is actually Gatsby. But as you know, Gatsby allows you to use no field with your own cross promotion.
So it's something. What's Gatsby? Yeah, what's Gatsme for non-admon people? Fair, fair.
So Gatsme is an in-game network that is basically showing advertisement and ads inside of the game assets, right? It's one of many right now in the industry. And we're partnering with Gatsme on this game.
Nice. And they allow it to do this.
So it's also like a good add-on for cross-promotion. And as you can see, it's an hyper-casual.
Is that basically because the fill usually with these companies is like 30-40%, right? And then cross-promo then is a nice thing on top. Exactly.
And you said 30-40% maybe in US, because especially in Poland, Berlin, I don't know. It's Lisbon for sure.
You get a lot of. Yeah.
So this is just a click through and it goes to, ah, boom, yeah. All right.
So here as well, right? You press and then it goes. There you go.
Works well. Nice.
Yeah. Okay.
And then below that, you have the more games. Right below the square.
So it is more attractive. As you saw, the offers changed.
Yeah. The first is train, ram, jump, whatever is train, ram last before.
And even on the top, there's no archeries, only hypercasuals. And so we tend to make it more.
Different setup for different audiences. Exactly.
Okay, then wait, wait, wait, wait. Have you tried to promote these two other games genres and it didn't work? Or you just said, fuck this and then let's just cross-promote the same genres within each other no we definitely tried so all of it of it is based on cpms so we do our own waterfalls and we change once or twice a week depending on the title like this title is very low in terms of volume at the moment.
So I would say even that same waterfall for a month. But we are always changing constantly on eCPMs.
If we would see that for some insane reason, Ant Royale or Darts Club would have an amazing CPM on this title, it would be there for sure. Okay.
It just tends to be very normal

that they are matching.

So it's good to see

that it's also matching.

Yes, another add.

Makes sense.

Archery Clash.

There you go.

This is Voodoo?

This is not you.

No, it's not.

This is Voodoo.

Because I pressed off and then it's an interstitial, but yeah.

Yeah.

So did you at some point try to just do the cross promo inside of the mediation?

Because I've done that a bunch of times and it never works.

Yeah.

No, that's, that's tricky.

We tried a few partners as well, right? We tried even using the cross promotion from Iron Source and all of that tends to be much more complicated and less time effective than this one. Can you explain why it doesn't work to all the listeners? Because I think that's my question.
Because I've been asked so many times to do it and always I go like, I'm not doing this. This is never going to work.
Why it doesn't work? First of all, I mean, it's so hard to understand the data as well. Like it's so hard to really understand how much you're paying for the user.
Like why is the, like where to put them in the waterfall itself? Show the screen. Show the game.
At least, yeah. And this is, come on.
Show darts if you want. Yeah, show darts.
Play darts. This is way more fun.
Yeah, of course. Let's just acknowledge the fact that there's a giant ship container.
Container ship being launched into financial district. Which is super normal.
Oh, yeah. You move the level up.
So, yeah. So, that for us is always not very clear.
And by setting our own cross-promotion as a network and having both ends of ends of the information right because we have the source and the destination becomes so clear and so easy so I can tell you evaluation is easier yeah sorry also the evaluation of the like the whole cross product how it works and then how much money you get I don't want to say spend but kind of get get more incrementally, like you said, yeah, like get more than like, that's the key part of having your own thing. Exactly.
And it's pretty easy to get the data. Because you treat it basically as just the normal UA channel in AppSlayer and the evolution.
Yeah. So in AppSlayer, yes, for sure.
There is no cost, right? So there is not the ROI check. But because we are mainly doing pre-fill, no-fill, embedded, and then more games, everything is kind of like incremental.
I think it's really competing with our networks. and then the only cost that we might be

having is the user moving to a new game and not generating more revenue in that game but then if it's going to a new game eCPMs are going to be higher and the revenue is going to be bigger so press the button says i like ads how about that nice you didn't fail for it yeah tried the reverse psychology. And yeah, so right now we're showing like around a billion ads, a quarter.
Of course, around like 980 million of those is embedded, obviously. Like, you know, we have.
Did you want to show anything else in the presentation? I remember you said you had some. Yeah, I can share a bit more.
Something to, of course, have in mind is the fact that, so this is what I was talking about. So we're showing around a billion in impressions in Q3.
Of course, 980 are from embedded, but still having like almost 17 million in interstitial and 18 million reward that shows how big it can be at some point. The only if on all of this is, of course, there is some kind of small costs on the server side, but it's basically minimum.
We're talking about like one cent per install, which could be at some point a no-no for like tier four Geo's. Right? Yeah.
That's what I would say. Like one cent, it's also kind of for tier three, tier four, a problem if we, if you pay for attribution even.
Exactly. Exactly.
So we are not really paying for attribution because then it depends on what kind of package you have, but on the service side, that's the only cost that I can say it exists. And yeah, it's around one cent install.
So for some tier four geos, depending on the average LTV of the game, we are not showing cross-promotion. Yeah.
What stage do you think cross-promotion starts to work, right? You have two and a half million users, right? Like, is it worth someone who has like four apps that's like 10k DAO to do it? Or is it not really worth it then? I mean, what scale? Yeah. What scale? That's a good question.
I think, you know, at some point, yeah, it needs to be as well a number of apps, because even if you just have two, and you have like, okay, if you have two and five million daily active users, for sure, I think it's worth doing it. But starting from even half a mil DAO, depends on also what you're talking about.
Half a mil hypercasual is nothing is nothing or not a lot. A mil mid-core would be the same.
Yeah, fair. But maybe like three, four apps and a mil DAO in terms of, you know, hybrid would already be very valuable in my opinion.
But they have to be related, right? They have to be matching. Okay.
Yeah, in a way. In a in a way in a way because at some point you know something that in the future maybe we'll also be able to share is that then you can also use this displacements especially outside of interstitial and rewarded to add some kind of like brand deals, e-commerce deals.
And as soon as you do start having,

populating these placements with some kind of ad network on top of that, it's going to get like 10 times more valuable than cross promotion. Because cross promotion, it is the minimum, not the minimum, it's the last resource of trying to monetize the users and trying to move them around.
So if you had, for example, half a mil DAO and a few games, even just building something like this to then maybe try and add some direct deals on it could be something interesting. That's exactly my question now.
So you have 1 billion impressions for Q3. Are you going to sell this as another ad network, potentially to DTC or e-commerce or something? Because it makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, yeah. It's something that I really can't say just because we're public, right? Even if it's yes or no, but it is something that could be, should be explored, right?

Not just as a boom bit, but as anyone that has a portfolio like ours or they have active users like ours.

You should definitely explore that.

Yeah, it makes all the sense.

I mean, you have the placements, you have all the technology and infrastructure now for cross promotion, which is, as you said, I don't want to say bottom of the kind of, let's call it waterfall, but it is. And if you can sell those impressions elsewhere and just kind of run any other, not even gaming companies, but e-commerce, which is now the hype, pretty interesting.
Definitely. We'll watch it closely.
That's good. and then good and then we're gonna start having like more ad placements as well like we're gonna have split screen where we're gonna basically show you know try to show two or four ads at the same time of course not all at the same time but like with show one then show another then show another and then allow the user to play around.
And as well, the splash screen, the classic add in the first second, like forced, and then the user can skip as soon as the game is loaded. But at least during that loading time, we're going to...
And you would be able to click on them? We would, you would be able to click on them, yes. That's how, like, normally splash screens are.
I mean, even Felix maybe knows more than me. I'm just comparing it with something like, let's say, for instance, emulators do this, like BlueStacks.
They have lots of ads in the loading screens, but they're not clickable. They're just like call to action stuff.
Branding ads. Yeah, branding ads.
They're just pre-roll. And then the ads are like these extra icons that they into emulator which are install buttons.
This is better. I think they will be clickable.
If they come up with a way of not making them clickable, then maybe it's just annoying the user. I don't know.
Think about it as an aggressive end card which you want to click, you want to exit, but you can't. You just need to install.
Exactly. And, yeah, so here we talked already about, like, the caching of the ads.
We're trying to see. This is just...
So this is a pretty basic look i'm just then going to show you the tool itself so basically we we do have i mean this is pretty obvious so you we have a tool where we create the campaign then whenever there's uh the cross the cross cross promo sdk starts working and it's going to show game b game a on game b and then the user goes to game A. But I think the most interesting part is, of course, to show the cross promo to itself.
How do I change? You're already seeing it. Sorry.
I thought it was more. Yeah.
Okay, showing it again. There you go.
Okay, perfect. So we have, no, here are a few tabs.
This is This is of course built internally. So you're going to see a few features repeating across the tabs, but pretty straightforward.
We go and we add our product. So we start from adding like the game.
And then when we add the game, you need to select what type of ads do you want to show? So if either, if it is the banner, the little square, the interstitials or the

more games, then yeah.

Or everything right away for both OSs, whatever you feel like doing it.

Then you have the creative parts where of course you can add, you need to add the

creative that you want to advertise for the different banners, for the different banners, the different placements, sorry. And here as well, we have always the ability to just see what is live or what is not.
For example, I just click that and I can see right away what creative has been added. Bullseye! Satisfying.
He missed it. This creative is running for fucking five years.
I'm pretty sure like, amazing. I love it.
I love it. Let me see if there is more.
I think, I mean, that's for sure a lot, but they're all, this one, Not sure if you've seen this one.

No.

If you can turn down the volume, that would be nice.

Pretty badass guy.

And then he misses it.

Obviously.

Oh, wow.

Then he gets some courage again.

From his kid.

Yes.

From his kid, of course.

It's always emotional.

Darce is very emotional.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And, yeah. So, then, of course, you add your creatives and then you start your own campaign.
So by creating the campaign, you are saying like what app you want to advertise in what other apps just to be sure that, you know, at least the connection is done both on the source side to the destination side. And I think the most important part is the waterfall setup.
So here is when we set up the waterfalls per game, per ad type, and sometimes per geo. That's a lot of work.
It's a lot of work, but at the same, it's not that much in the sense that, for example, the waterfalls are, we are only using eCPM. We are not trying to be an ad network query using like several types of metrics.
So that's why I think a lot of other publishers can definitely do this. We are just using eC and at the same time that ECPM is being generated automatically.
Basically just a tool that is giving us the waterfalls and then we're just adding it here as a CSV. So basically we are literally changing all the waterfalls for all the games in one click two clicks okay so not manually one by one of course for then for our biggest titles we try to just see what the the algo suggested let's say and that's it so let's say it's 95 percent automated five percent manual and then the same for more things you're amusing sorry what about thefill from Gatsby? When you have that in on the app open ads, what was the percentage you'd say of users you get from there for the cross promo? That's a good question that I should know.
I honestly have no idea. So probably not that high then.
Probably not that high, yes. I can tell you that Gatsme has been a massive surprise for us.

And when I say Gatsme, I'm going to say, let's say in-game ads

and not talking about cross-promotion.

For example, for Darts right now, it's around,

I was even checking before this call,

around 13% to 15% of the ad revenue that we have,

which I never thought it was going to be like this.

Nice. And for Darts, it's still 80% revenue based.
So it is, you know, a big part of it. And so, yeah, so I think for this tool, that's it.
Just wanted to show you around like how easy it is for us to then create these campaigns and just set up the waterfalls. It's a few clicks, basically.
That's what I wanted to see. Literally, a few clicks.
And whenever we will start working with other clients and other publishers, I mean, we already are working with them, but just definitely on the beta side, it's as easy as having a self-serve network, right? So it's pretty good. Yeah, it's a game, I would consider this as an additional UA channel for a lot of different games, because if you have that many impressions, it's basically, yeah, across like a new UA channel.
For sure. It's a new UA channel, but as well of the lowest quality of users, right? Because we are not trying to go above that networks.
So I'm not saying that there is a massive quality, but as you saw before... I love it.
Not yet. Yeah, that's true.
So a few quick other benefits. We use it as well.
Like we have an alerting system connected to the cross promo, which is really good why. Already a few times, you know, a new game was released with a buggy version where a network stopped delivering an issue on the mediation SDK where ads just stopped working and you just start seeing like a massive spike on cross promotion because now you're feeling all the, the no feel.
And this tells you right away as well. In a few hours, you're going to start receiving alerts.
Cross promotion is increasing by 200% today. Something is wrong.
Uh, it's a good way to measure, uh, to at least know if there's any bugs on the monetization side.

Then, of course, there's no more in available ads, which is good for improving the user experience.

And as well, what we talked before, to push special events. Whenever you do have a special event in a game, try to move that DAO to the right game at the right time.

So for sure. We also already talked about this.
So we set it as a network on AppsFlyer where we are basically seeing all the impressions on the source side and on destination side. So we have the whole view of performance and we have different dashes to check performance.
This is one of them. I think you can see it.
Now we can see it. Yeah.
Okay, cool. Where we, so here I selected, I think just upper casuals and like our main assets.
And you can see right away, like where the source is, where the ad was shown. And then the user was sent to the target game.
So yeah, the game where the user arrived. The ECPM here, what is that actually? Is that something you calculate or is that taken from anywhere? Okay.
So the ECPM is just the classic metric of Adarpu times installs, the Vata by impressions times a thousand, right? I'm not mistaken. I have the metric also in the...
So then you use that to calculate cost, I guess, of the cross promo, right? So you can keep the game teams happy, right? Exactly. Exactly.
So trying to assess what is the real value of an install, let's say.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

CTR 68%?

What are you doing?

Apparently.

So this...

And also, we have also 128%, which it's amazing.

I'm joking.

Like something clearly happened here, but yeah, I mean, let's not forget that most

of them, and this is interstitial and rewarded, right?

It's already no feel, maybe some misclicks or a lot of misclicks.

We are trying to imitate as well, a network with like a small cross on the top.

All of that. So yeah, 70 70 maybe is a bit too much but it doesn't surprise me if conversion rate was 60 i would be scared but yeah conversion rate 4 5 percent 2 percent yeah yeah makes a bit more sense i mean uploving is what mart Yeah.
Sounds about right. 90.
Yeah, 95. 95.
It's crazy how that metric has just really diminished in value. Literally.
You have other metrics which are more important. But we have 128 and AppLovin doesn't have 128%.
Yeah, exactly. There you go.
Easy. Then, yeah, then you can just, the best way of as well understanding performance is, you know, you just select one of the sources and then you just try to, okay, there's a lot of them here.
And you try to understand how much revenue a game is generating for all the destination apps. Here, I'm just looking at ARPU because I don't want to show you.
We have a dash as well where we see real numbers, where you see revenue being generated. But as you can imagine, if you multiply ARPU by number of installed, et cetera, you can really see- You can calculate, yeah.
Yeah. How it works.
How Revenue is being generated. Cool.
Okay. What else? So it was, you said it was 12% of your overall profit in terms of ad revenue source comes from here.
13%. 13%.
13% for sure. First, I have here like an example of how CrossPromo can be impactful in like launching a game on the launch phase on the sunset i think maybe it's even after so we already talked about how we use ecpm on the waterfalls so i can skip this part and yeah this is the last thing it's just kind of like a case study right we did it for downhill racing and it was rather impactful.

More on the scale part, but definitely on the profitability side. So first week, let's call it soft launch.

It's not even really soft launch because you were talking about what a thousand

installs because the thousand span is the first week 24 K and we have normally three networks. We always have two socials and one SDK.
Obviously, the initial spend on the network is not going to be profitable. You're just starting to scale.
But right away, cross-promotion is bringing you an additional impact on scale. We see here around 12%.
But as well as giving you already a buffer on profitability that you can somehow spend on the networks that you're soft launching as well even before starting one or two campaigns you can use it to test the game which which is something that is basically cost free,

literally to test how the user is working on the, is using the game,

how the ads are working, what's the overall LTV for certain geos.

And it's also from moment one, increasing a little bit the impact on the,

on the algorithms from the stores, right?

Because that goes into the store and right away starts having like 10,000, 20,000, 50,000 installs without any effort on our side. Of course, nowadays, this is not as relevant as it was before.
But it can be. Nice additional installs help always.
Always, always. So it's pretty cool to see then first month the first month right launch at some point we're talking about so this is an hyper casual let's not forget at some point you're talking about like yeah spending around 200k where we're seeing that the overall profitability you know, across all networks starts to be good.
But we see that cross-promotion is bringing us still one of them, is still by far the main source on profitability outside of organics. It's bringing us around 20% of the profitability while the impact of scale is much lower.
Because as soon as you start marketing, there's nothing that you can, you cannot fight up level and integral Facebook. Still, it is a key moment to bring you that extra level of profitability just so you can run your UA a bit more comfortably.
Also with hypercasuals and the margins pretty tight, this gives you a little bit breathing room, which is nice. Yeah.
100%. The impact where it definitely is less, sorry, the moment where it's less impactful is doing the scaling phase or the, let's call it like the proper launch phase.
Of course, here is bringing us around three percent four percent five percent of the of

the scale but you can only see how impactful it can be on profitability if we are looking at the

scale here you're talking about 11 of course then at this moment in time almost half a meal spent the networks should be bringing the bigger majority of

the profitability.

But in my opinion, the biggest win, of course, promotion is on the sunset phase. Downhill racing is still not on sunset phase.
So I have to, I had to change the game, but just to give you a game that is basically dead on user acquisition side, it has no, any user acquisition. We see that all the majority of the profitability that we're generating on this game comes from cross promotion.
We have hundreds of games like this. So you can imagine how it's a volume play.

It's a volume play, definitely.

Not saying that you're going to be making 50k a day, 50k a week,

even 50k a month.

But if you do have a nice portfolio,

if you have a lot of

active users

and within the same

genre, imagine multiplying

this to like 50 games, 100 games. This is when cross-promotion is insanely impactful.
We just talked about how hyper-casual companies still make millions and they're coming from Vietnam and then it's still profitable. And this is, again, an interesting point.
Because not all the companies make hundreds of millions per month. This can have a very big impact on the overall profitability of the whole company, basically.
For sure. I don't want to say it's for free, but it's kind of efficiency at its best.
Let's call it that way. 100% because these users would be probably playing this game, but then at some

point they would just have no ads anymore.

And either they would be playing completely for free or they would just

like stop playing the game.

And here, at least we are not letting them go and giving them a second life,

third life, fourth life.

Or just prolonging the life basically exactly in general exactly and i think that's it that's pretty comprehensive it's amazing i don't even have any questions i think it was like literally the best cross promotion like you know i'm gonna point people to this because it's always like yeah we're gonna do this and then cross promotion like really and they're like yeah it's around like 13 percent

if you have a giant portfolio of games that you can cross promo to exactly here my funny cross

promotion story just really quick before we end obviously obviously i was working at a large game

company and basically the cro told my boss like yeah we're gonna do cross promo make sure it

happens my boss comes to me he's like we're gonna do cross promo i'm like okay well we can set it up

in the game company and basically the CRO told my boss like yeah we're gonna do cross promo make sure it happens my boss comes to me he's like we're gonna do cross promo I'm like okay well we can

set it up in the mediation and either like yeah we want to do that that's exactly what we want to

do I'm like but it's gonna cost us money it's like no no we'll make it back don't worry so I set up

the cross promotion CRO comes back and he's like why is the revenue done and it's like yeah because

you know cross promotion is like well turn that shit off how many days one day two days

I'm going to go to the next one. back and he's like why is the revenue done and it's like yeah because you know cross promotion it's like well turn that shit off how many days one day two days four enough for i think it was only i think it was only four because it was a weekend but it's just like it's gonna cost you and it's just like yeah and then in the start i had it on like backfill and like low ecpm and it's like why is the scale so low make it higher and then you're like meanwhile i'm in the trenches yeah they're living in dreamland yeah that's how it works so that's why we don't use the mediation now yeah that's the answer oh my god okay thank you so much yeah that was this was perfect and i'm super practical yeah we made it happen thanks for sharing all the all the numbers insights and how it actually works so if people want to contact you, what should they do? We'll put your kind of info in the show notes and obviously the many links to the tool or whatever.
But yeah, please. What should they do? I mean, they can definitely contact me on LinkedIn.
Just Gonzalo Martins or Goncalo Martins. No, no, no.
Goncalo. I have so many versions of it.
Welcome to my world. Welcome to Matej's world.
Matej. I still can't say his last name.
That's it. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
Perfect. Then if you want to ask also any more questions regarding this,

please join our Slack channel.

I will put Gonzalo's info in the show notes.

And I think again, please subscribe, comment on the YouTube,

and then definitely subscribe on the Spotify because we are growing there as well, not only YouTube.

But yeah, thank you very much for listening.

Gonzalo, thank you very much for coming as well.

And then see you next time.

Thank you. Bye.
Bye. See you.
Bye-bye. thank you very much for coming as well and see you next time thank you

bye

bye

thank you very much We'll be right back.