Why Habby Dropped Hybrid Casual? Is Wittle Defender too deep for Global Scale?

So, Survivor IO was doing something like a million a day, yeah, yeah, during this lunch and then just like went downhill

because of that revenue, fifty percent add revenue, right?

Yeah, so yeah, so much.

And then Arch IP wise, Archero to six hundred plus Capi Barrago six hundred Archero one

four hundred, and Vital Defender is basically the one making the least regarding that.

But one other thing that I wanted to show

We're rocking those vibes till the early daylight.

But J-U-A, master eyes on the prize.

Tracking data through the cyberspace skies.

Felix stacks colours like a wizard in disguise.

Jackups crafting realms left us to the highs.

Two and a half gamers talking smack.

Slow, hockey, sick, got your back.

Ads are beautiful, they like the way.

Click it fast, don't delay.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

I'm joined by my two co-hosts today.

I'm the only normal one.

So, Marty just flew in from the 1980s, Miami, and Jakub just came from a job interview.

Yeah.

hello this is two and a half gamers yeah

okay everybody you said last time i only wear black so there we go i mean you feel you feel a little bit uh from a different world yeah i mean this is me always you're telling me that i mean man like i it's it's june it's end of june and i'm sitting under the roof so it's this is gonna be the next two months basically okay

you're known you're known as sweaty betty and uh jakub is known as the professor

It's not about sweaty Betty, it's just here.

It's outside, it's 35 degrees Celsius.

Here in this room, it's 50.

And I only have AC in the next room.

So, and you know,

well, that's my problem.

Anyway, welcome, everybody.

My name is Matja Lancerich.

I'm Felix Broberg.

We

are

your

hosts.

Hey, there you go.

Almost forgot.

It's been a long time since we recorded actually.

Because I was sailing in Croatia.

Yeah, I was sailing in Croatia.

And

no one cares.

Yeah, I know.

Yakub was trying to find a job.

And

what happened?

I was on the wedding guest.

How are you?

I'm on holiday in Mallorca.

So everything is good, man.

Okay, perfect.

And today we're going to talk about the newest happy game, which is Whittle Defender.

and Yakubi is a very big fan of this game.

Oh, even camera zooms in.

Perfect.

Even though I turned it off, I'm actually very curious because I got to chapter 6 and I'm wondering how you actually level up this game, basically how you're playing all the characters and how you're maxing out all the stats.

Chapter 6, come on, man.

What was it?

20 minutes?

A bit longer, but maybe 30.

Maybe 25.

Okay, numbers or game?

I mean, I always

say game, but...

Yeah, start with game.

You always say numbers.

Okay, let's go game then.

But you know, you can do actually both at the same time.

You know how?

You know how.

Because where's what?

Go for it.

Go for it.

Because there's a new thing in Sensor Tower.

No, no, no, no, no, no, there's no, no, no, no, there was no ambush at.

This is actually a new thing in the sensor tower, which is called FTUE, which is first time user experience tab when you go to the actual

game, and then there is first time user experience first twenty minutes it was basically recorded by Felix it's definitely chapter six

no but it's very new I think so kudos to Sander Tower to actually add the adding this

a chapter short there you go

so it was a little bit longer than that but anyway yeah we have we have our own first time user experience and uh the end game u user experience blazing Rift fifty two

hell Yeah, I played it for a very, very long time.

Pretty much stopped right after Umamusume came out.

So we'll cover that soon.

But yeah, I think I was pretty much playing this hardcore as much as I could.

Spending all the energy and every pretty much thing that can be spent.

Anyway, so let's do a little bit of,

let's say, framing as always, because there's some very important changes.

in this game compared to the other games on hubby's portfolio.

And we are basically seeing another upgrade to their framework.

The first upgrade to the framework that we saw was with Capybarago, Archero 2, when they implement a lot of stuff from Legend of Mushroom.

And that was a big, big leap pretty much with their monetization.

Now

what they're doing, their signature kind of

progression layers that they usually go after, where here you would expect like you would have a character and he would have like three slots on the left, three souls on the right, and double of that within the same, you know, survivor aisle style or whatever.

Everybody has like nearly nearly every game from Archero till here has the same template.

So they ditched it.

So it's not there anymore.

And what we have here is actually a squad-based RPG now because we have five characters.

And the whole setup is actually much more closer to something like Genshin or Hoyo Wars template because these guys have a lot, a lot of progression layers.

Let's just go on like the basics.

What's there?

So there's a character.

He has his rarity.

You can see this is like legendary one.

There's also not even mythic one.

Legendary are these yellow ones.

There's red ones.

Whatever.

These are not important.

Canon folder.

So we have a rarity of a character.

His star rating is upgraded by consuming copies of himself, which again is very similar to like all the other gacha games.

uh sword rpg ones we have his level where i think i can upgrade only this guy but yeah,

we can do that.

It consumes this special currency called I don't know what blue thing.

And then you see that upgrading his star rating, basically consuming copies of himself, increases his skills because they are locked behind that star rating, which are either stud bonuses or some direct stuff that's like very, very awesome.

Then we have his gear.

This is the part that literally remained from their old template and was again a lot more refined because gear has star rating.

Gear itself can be upgraded and also refined, which is literally an enhancement mechanic.

So if we go to a character that doesn't have that much enhance gear here,

here for instance, so there's a chance, literally.

And we failed.

So we literally have like lineage style enhancement system, but not that merciless.

It's a little bit more merciful, I would say, but we're still wasting another currency there's a lot of bonuses here that you see if you cross certain paths such as like master enhancer rarity master blah blah blah which means like have all the gear on rare rarity epic whatever rarity all the refined stuff yada yada yada and then on top of it all we already passed three progressionals we have the rune system and rune system is basically

like even bigger version of what Genshin Impact has regarding the itemization because we have these runes.

they have the main stat, they have the substats, and they have the sets.

So, you not only need to aim for the sets, you also need to aim for the perfect roles on all of these sets.

Where basically, if I go here and I would try to check, like I have to see, like I have like a lot of these.

So, for instance, this is a rare divine revival slot one.

I have like uh

uncommonly seen this before.

This is Hoyo War's like one-on-one version of like how do you have this enhancements because keep keep in mind that I'm not that far within the gear, but my guess is that as you upgrade this, you get unlocked more and more stats.

I think where so this was also in some other game that we discussed, and I don't remember which one.

All Hoyoverse games have this, but we didn't talk about Hoyoverse games.

But in other games, I played it as well.

Let me check.

The one we played with John?

No, I wasn't.

Yeah,

I wasn't part of that, but I let me check.

Pretty much every single big Asian RPG regarding the itemization system, this is it.

Because you see here, for instance, here, I unlock another stud, and then there's roles with randomization as it grows in level that let's say rolls another roll here to create damage, could roll to one to HP, and you're literally chasing the perfect combination here, which adds giants amount of depth, like giants amount of depth.

So we already passed that, and now we have also elemental system on top of this, because as you see these buttons on the bottom, we have ice, fire, lightning wind and then this like

whatever master element that I thought it said unemployed I'm like that's a hell of an element

yeah it's a very strong element

so there's this rainbow guy because what changed also

with the power progression

players

is their gacha system.

So gacha system is actually changing a little bit because we have the normal gacha system you you can summon right here, where we have the normal set of characters that are kind of popping in.

It's more of like a shark system.

So what happens here is that then you have these Xenoscape summons, which you unlock only

after you summon 500 of these.

It only unlocks after you summon 500 of these.

And once you start getting these guys,

you finally are able to get the two super whatever unemployed characters.

The one that's currently in the mix is this whatever Transformer guy and then this Chaos Witch, which you can

increase chance with wish wish whatever selection and blah blah blah.

But basically it's like a one level higher gacha on top of it.

And then of course on top of that

There was another gacha here, but it ended actually today which was the banner gacha with the character

specifically.

It was the Swarzsaint girl, which was again the normal gacha plus her, like we have in Genshin, whatever.

So, what's happening here is that adding a lot more spend up to it, it's just much more deeper, much more money-absorbing, and much more customizable, I would say, and much more core, which could be one of the issues here when you look at the revenue.

But yeah, we'll talk about that.

What about

what about the things that's locked behind the ads, the items?

Which items?

I think it's in the bag.

Anyway, bag?

I'm sure.

Which one?

These ones that

you can get them from watching ads, all the items in your bag.

You can.

Not all of them.

Some of them.

Some of them.

Because what happens here is now

we still haven't talked about the core.

This is still meta.

Yeah, yeah.

So we have 50 more minutes, don't worry.

Then we can talk about something else.

So we have this system which was there before during the Capibarago Archero 2 setup as taken from Agenda Mushrooms.

There's always this kind of a I really love this

shitty reward for you to just go and click notifications to just see the offers.

Lots and lots and lots of monetization.

Actually, if you go here,

or where was it?

Not here, yeah, here.

I think there's like level funds as you progress, and there's like level fund one, level fund two, level fund three, adventure fund adventure fund six so on so forth so this goes pretty much forever and they like battle pass the shit out of this like crusade fund four i'm currently on like yeah it's it's it's very very very deep the other thing is that they added the modes mechanic as

is that the web show

which one is that a web show

yeah i think the fast spring one there we go

because

the listeners today's episode is brought to you by our sponsors,

Fast Spring.

Because Fast Spring has delivered D2C at scale for over 20 years and they power top mobile publishers around the world.

I guess hubby has their own web shop.

But if they haven't, maybe they're working with Fast Spring and they should because Fast Spring has no D2C.

no drama D2C partner with real-world experience at scale is your partner you can trust with your players so if you want to quickly launch a new web store, replace an existing D2C vendor, or add a redundant D2C vendor, go to fastspring.gg

and tell them

gamers sent you fastspring.gg for all your web stores.

Thank you very much.

Yeah, so no web store here yet, or no pop-ups or because maybe haven't called FastSpring or just went fastpring.gov.

You already did your ambush at.

So,

as we continue this monetization bonanza,

so there are the modes, same layer and same template and setup that we see in Capybarra Go and Archero 2.

So this is pretty much the stuff where each mode is situated a little bit differently regarding its requirements, what you need to bring, which let's say the gold red mode is like killing hordes of enemies.

Gobbling round is killing one big gobbling guy, which basically means you need single target damage for this one and area damage for the golden red one then we have the boar hunt which is again some special modifiers which again the incentives for you to change your lineup then we have the bulk challenge how could you grind to fifth to the you know 52 uh blazing rift i mean this is getting even more complex than archer or two basically

so like how the fuck how the fuck did i grind yeah like it's just too much work

No, if you know

you can

I have it on second monitor.

I do other stuff.

Oh yeah, that's true.

Okay, fair, okay, fair, fair.

Can we see even better automated than the previous one?

Yeah, exactly.

It's better than Archer because you don't really need to move.

So that's why.

You just select your face in the beginning.

Yeah, yeah.

See you in 30 minutes.

Okay.

Can we see the core?

Yeah, we'll get to the core.

I'll finish the meta.

Coming soon.

So for instance, here we have the boss mode.

We see like the boss's weakness on ice, resist on fire, typical shit.

So that's like nothing really to it.

Then we have Abyss Crusade which is these hammers which is again a second gacha that I'll talk about and then there's runic planes.

This is the source of those artifacts from Genshin Impact style things where you're pretty much again chasing the specific ones because again specific set.

The good thing is that actually what you need to do you go to your heroes and there are already recommendations like which artifact they want to and which set would be the best suited for a hero.

What stats?

It's great because I don't need to fucking go online and check guides.

Yeah, that's like amazing.

Finally, finally, why do I need to go always online?

So that's great.

Even

so good.

Yeah, so that was the modes there.

Then there's this camp thing, which seems like a lot of stuff is still locked.

But there are two main very important thing, which is the treasure system, which is another power progression layer.

Because these are basically relics that are specifically designed either through specific types of damage or specific persons, like my demonic guy that I showed you, the fire guy.

So, he has now every 10 attacks, demons on summon clone that cast burning slash, which is super strong.

So, this was also in the event.

This is typical merge gacha that they're kind of known for, and so nothing really to it done through this like quick fusing thing where our wizard guy fuses stuff automatically for us.

We don't even need to think about the

main effect.

Yeah, it was in Archer 2 and then copyboard.

But when you want to go higher, then it's more of a like you need different copies and so on and so forth.

So that's there.

Then there's Talon system, which is another power progression layer.

This is the typical one where you just go and you press a button and you get a random card and then it increases.

And this is really annoying because I see the it's so slow.

I mean, I think you just one time when you see the animation, that's enough.

And then you go and click and then just automatically get the thing.

Later in the future, we'll have AIs that will play this for us.

I mean, yeah, but it's

so much fun.

It's so much fun playing the game when you don't really play the game.

Oh my god, I can't wait.

Seriously.

This is so much more complicated than, for example, like earlier Habby games.

Like, are they moving away from the kind of hybrid

means more spend depth?

You can't monetize on a shitty heap per casual gameplay of click here, click.

Yeah, great.

But then you kind of lose that like broad audience, broad appeal, accessibility.

you lose accessibility.

That's the thing.

And we'll talk about that.

Let me just finish.

So there's a guild whole system with guild bosses, pretty much the same thing.

It's just like, you know, your stuff.

Then we have another gacha.

Yeah, I know.

Another gotcha, which is the relic system that I showed you.

You're still here?

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

So this is just another gacha, not only the characters, but pretty much like lots of gachas, lots of like this.

This thing is just.

Then there's some more stuff regarding the typical offers.

And by the way, very, very big amount of replacements.

I guess we'll talk about that one.

And then

there's the...

Where is it?

Go back to the shop.

Go back to the shop, Jakub.

Yeah.

My shop looks so different from your shop.

Which one?

This one?

Or which one?

The mint.

This one.

I knew where I saw the runes.

So you don't have unlocked the runes.

That's the thing.

I know where I saw the runes.

It was in Archer 2.

It was already there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Your runes are also Survivor IO, they like they have like a lot of again, what they're doing, they're just extending and upgrading their template and making it a little bit more complex and deeper.

Yeah, quest systems, typically she had nothing really to it.

Mail system monster gallery, which is just like this kind of uh whatever, polka decks.

And uh yeah, I think we're finally at the end of the few uh by the way, skins skins also work very good because skins actually increase stats.

That's also interesting.

So this is the normal Swords Saint scheme and the one from the event actually gives you a pretty big stat boost, so that's good.

Yeah, so you actually want to play the event, yeah, yeah, because you know, skins don't matter to RPG players, but if you give them stats, it's basically another kind of yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, not the progression slope.

Let's see the battle, please.

Yeah, let's go to battle.

So, let's go

chapter 52, which I don't know if I get my asking, but I don't remember now.

By the way, only 15 minutes, and we see the actual game.

That's how deep it is.

That's how deep it is.

So they did also a big overhaul on their skill randomizer.

It's not anymore how it used to be with hobby games where you would have like weapons and then ammunition.

You combine those and get some kind of whatever super ability or stuff like that.

It's working a little bit differently.

And I mean a little bit a lot because you need to accommodate for the squad system of five characters.

Yeah.

So it's completely different, I would say.

So what you typically do is you first you first you need to even spawn your character.

So you first choose your characters.

So let's take these two for instance.

They start battling, everything is automated on speed one or two.

Of course we want to.

And they start battling and again we're doing nothing with our hands and just checking how we get more and more XP.

And then the ransom randomizer comes again.

We still choosing the characters because again in order to choose any skills first we need the characters.

So we can get our optimus prime guy.

Then they continue killing things.

You see how the waves are pretty much being counted down here on the left.

Icons of the faces are the boss guys.

Then a first kill comes in, but I don't want it now because I still want to get my guys out first because they're still sitting here in the middle.

By the way, this whole gameplay style, as we seen this, is taken from the tower.

Tower, yes.

Which we still haven't kicked ourselves to do a review on, but we'll definitely will.

Which is an amazing game, but it's an idle tower defense.

It works a little bit differently, it's not a randomizer, it's

actually

play this game.

I can't play tower.

Yeah, it was just complex.

It's like, what the f

it streamlined the tower gameplay.

It's amazing, amazing move.

Yeah, so now we're now at the skill selection.

So, how skill selection works in this game, again, a little bit of an innovation.

You have the main skills of these characters, like sword, wheel, justice, combo, straw, whatever.

And they have these like three

yellow stars or pretty much three tiers.

And once you reach the third tier, you can get the ultimate skill.

But just let's say I'm going for the sword because she's very strong.

So

let me go and take her there.

And after our next level,

we'll get another combo and see, there's nothing from the sword girl.

And the thing is that with this setup, you can't really spread everything because if you have like everybody on like few levels, you do shit.

You need to have one or two strong characters and just invest everything into them.

So, what happens here?

You need to re-roll.

You need to re-roll a lot.

See, only on the second one we have the sword dart, and now we're going to stage two.

What can happen that we could also get the sword dart, but it won't be the one that's increasing the tier of the skill.

It will be like just more sword dart damage, more whatever.

The icon will be the same, but it won't increase the skill.

It's kind of a noob trap, but they have it in it.

So, we continue this way.

And again, waves get a little bit more intense.

More characters.

Yeah, I felt it a lot.

I know.

Took me some time

why this shit is not evolving.

And, like, yeah, you need these three dots.

Yeah.

So, again, Flame Guy is also pretty good.

But let's see if we can get the sword.

No, we don't.

So, we pick the Flame Guy, which is still my strongest character anyway.

But, Sword goes a little bit more,

let's say, artistic with her stuff.

And then.

And now you're doomed because you don't know.

See, here is the Flame Guy.

If I pick this, I won't increase the tier of flame guy's ability, I'll just increase his damage, which is a kind of a trap.

So it's good if you know what you're doing, but not in this case.

So we took the just like these two are pretty much just there to have because characters can have synergies, and these two are there just to have synergy.

So this guy at some point can spawn like a synergy flaming ability and this guy's synergy wind ability.

See, again, Guardian Sword is great, but it's not a flame slash already.

Come on.

So we need to.

Almost looks a bit like a slot machine when you keep getting these range.

I guess it's a little bit more slotty, and I think

it kind of really improves the randomizer.

Because

one of the bigger problems that I have with the randomizer in Survivor Archer and all these things, once you figure it out, you're selecting the same skills all over again.

Yeah, over again.

Yeah.

It's super boring.

Here, because there's so many characters and you can play so many different things.

And I think there's a lot of behind-the-scenes play with weights.

Whereas if I already select the character's skill, his weight weight of like his occurrence in randomizer increases, so that's done very well.

Now we're basically fucked.

So we put this, even though we shouldn't, but okay, one increase our skill here.

But still, by the way, we're still not even in the middle, by the way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This takes very long, takes a very long time, and we're running speed too.

So now we're fucked again.

Okay, maybe Flame Blade.

The good thing about the randomizers, they still.

there we go.

And see, now it unlocks the skill, but it unlocks the

randomizer, you need to select it.

You need to still select it, yes.

The good thing is that they still are adhering to the good practice of the chess system, which means that within these randomizer roguelites games, at some point, chess starts popping in, whereas it starts selecting only from the skills that you already have.

Which

I think is after the balls, and after some kind of milestones or whatever, if we are able even to survive the boss, because she's pretty tough.

This is tough.

Yeah,

I was hoping one of your characters would die soon, so you could show that amazing outplacement.

That's really good.

Yeah, yeah, they have very, very good outplacements.

We'll get to that.

See, so this is the chest, only taking the stuff that we have.

There we go, sword.

And it's not the one that we want, it's not the one,

whatever.

It will be good.

It's one of those, like, nice to have.

So we continue, and this pretty much goes on and on.

And the good thing is that, as Felix mentioned, our characters, oh, there we have the chain ability.

That is pretty good.

One of our characters can die, and we won't die.

So, this is again a little bit of a step up because

in Survivor or whatever archer or whatever other hubby's game, because you have only one

character.

You have one character, one character dies, there you go.

So, what happens if you have five characters?

It means we can also resurrect five characters.

Much more spend depth.

Because

I guess at some point this guy will die anyway.

Which one?

Oh, the fire, fire guy here.

Really?

The archer.

Yeah, he'll die.

On the next box, I see.

Because all the other guys have some healing abilities or something like that.

That's not good.

But he is not...

I'm just using him because I need to fill the slot.

This is shit.

Oh, well, you should play a little bit better.

How?

He's a randomizer.

I know, I know, I know.

Yeah, there we go.

See, this is a little bit of, but yeah, we want this because this this is pretty good.

This is actually a tank character.

The the

and the peacekeeper?

Yeah, the peacekeeper is a tank character, actually.

He heals and he.

How come none of your characters are dying?

I cope to show this beautiful art placement.

Because I'm very good at this game.

Ah

such a great.

Yeah, but I think he'll die.

Eagle boost as well.

You should, yeah.

Come on, die.

Die.

Just die.

Oh, geez.

Yeah, so pig boss dead.

Another chest will come up and a little bit of a heal.

There we go.

Yeah, C5 skills.

That's great.

There we go.

So,

your characters just grow stronger and stronger, and this kinda accelerates because the bosses are only at the second part of the whole run.

Like, they don't even come up later.

These minions or whatever's coming up, this is just basically can unfolder.

And when when does it like becomes become boring?

Because this is already like the same thing all over again.

That's what I wanted to say as well.

Yeah.

The thing is that I'm not moving the character at all.

I'm just

selecting stuff.

And no, that's perfect for me because I'm doing other things during the meeting, like reading the news or whatever.

The mode that we selected is like a gating mode.

So at some point we won't be able to beat the boss.

We'll just be stuck.

And then comes the alternative modes, which are much much more teamed and much different in their setup i'll show you so let me finish this one

okay should do whatever please exit oh no

don't worry don't worry

it's gonna it's just

because this is exactly same exactly same as like the stage six seven eight it's it's the same thing just scaled numbers yeah yeah yeah

it's a little bit different abilities but yeah it's pretty much come on man like yeah you're right you're right why is hubby abandoning abandoning it as mass market appeal?

Like this is way more hardcore than like

that abandoning mass market appeal?

Survivor IO.

I mean man it unfolds.

It unfolds man.

It unfolds.

It's like not that unmass appeal.

It's just it unfolds very very deep compared to to other things.

Like survivor IO definitely wasn't that

that isn't.

So you wouldn't agree with me saying that they're like abandoned their mass market appeal?

Like survivor IO compared to this?

I think they're positioning themselves towards the market where

getting that big of a volume is now much harder and are just squeezing more money from the people that you already have.

It doesn't really look like they're squeezing more money out of it.

I will get to it.

Just saying.

It's a plan, not

my theory, not the thing that's actually happening.

Anyway, so this is the main mode, as you see how it looks.

And you pretty much go on this thing forever.

Forever.

And then if we want to go a little bit more structured gameplay to let's say whatever, the boss challenge.

So what's happened here is that

you see now we have four skills,

and these modes work much more faster because what's happening here is that we have, let's say,

we are choosing two skills at a time,

and these skills,

okay.

There we go, and these skills are

hacked by RNG

anyway and and now the game basically plays itself I don't do anything for the rest of the game so a lot of modes are much more faster and it's a lot of

you know against strategy and you position characters before the game as for like going for a build-up combination like see I was fishing for that whatever flame blade or something that was unlocked and I just couldn't get it but yeah whatever Can someone give me a reality check here?

Like, I don't think this is going to do better than the Survivor.io.

No.

I think it's not.

Man, what I just said is doesn't mean it's better.

I'm just saying what's happening.

Like, why are you taking all these circles and depth?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It doesn't mean that, like, this is better.

I'd love to hear your opinion on that.

I think they're maybe fishing for a different audience or different setup of

the market, but or maybe they're just, you know, like how much we can push this regarding their template.

I don't know.

We'll see.

But it's it's definitely not that mass market as Survivor.

It's still made by Gorilla, right?

It's Gorilla and Huggy Together.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, yeah, the hubby Prime Studio.

Okay.

Yeah, so see, now we have the thing.

Wait,

you can revive the characters.

So you can revive the characters by watching the dead once, and then you still have this revive water, which is literally consumable sold for hard current money that you can.

Yeah.

And if you don't have the revival water, it's an IAP right here.

Yeah, there.

Yeah, Yeah, that's perfect.

It's done very, very, very well.

99 cents.

Guys know perfectly what they're doing.

Yeah, and this could go on for 20 minutes, you know, but again, my characters aren't just not that strong.

Yes,

please die.

Obliterated in two minutes anyway.

But I can still revive some of those if I want.

Yeah, please don't.

Please don't.

Let them die, please.

Let them die.

Yeah, let them die.

The girl's girl.

No, this is Swordmaster guy.

Oh, this is shit.

Yeah, no way.

Yeah, okay.

At least snake or you could move around.

I don't know.

You You could move around as automated as it is.

Yeah, that's why I like it.

This was a hint, man.

This is as automated as

Capybara Go is like

more engaging game computer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Compared to this, absolutely.

But it's like, it's kind of built on top of Capybara Go rather than just everything else.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

In terms of the automation of the gameplay.

If we go to these other ones, I think they even have this mode now.

It was with the new update that you have like select one hero to break through.

So they even speed it up.

Because I can break through, let's say, this guy automatically gets his ability to top.

So I don't even need to now fish for his whatever flame blade thing, which I still can, by the way.

But it's not here.

Yeah, there we go.

This one.

But see, he's already unlocked the hellblade.

This was last update, by the way.

So, what this means is that automating it even faster now with the last update.

So, it's there.

Yeah, we'll skip this.

Yeah.

So I think that was most of it.

Like, yeah, some of these modes work a little bit differently, but as Matthias said, small variations with like skill selection, the beginning, boss objectives, or whatever, something like that.

Yeah, and this is pretty much the game.

There are start challenges.

Also, this got automated because I had to like do it myself and click it, and yada, yada, yada.

At some point, they did an update last week where if you're just too strong for this, you can just like instant pass.

Nice.

So, basically,

people were annoyed by grinding it because it's just overwhelmingly stronger.

And, like, yeah.

So, they're automating the shit out of this thing.

It's just like more and more and more automated.

So, let's get to the numbers, which don't look so good.

Regarding the main game,

let me just go a little bit more zoomed out here.

Currently, doing something like 300k per day,

IIP.

IIP only.

Yeah, Felix.

There's a lot of China there.

Yeah, there's a lot of China.

Taiwan is currently in the lead with like 28%.

China, 20%, South Korea, 14%, Hong Kong, 12%,

US, 8%.

So it's like a.

I mean, what would you expect?

Yeah.

So you're basically looking like hardcore Asia RPG,

like Genshin Stargame.

And then regarding

the side, it's not that.

Yeah, China was actually in the lead and it's something like 40k per day, again, not that big.

And again, Asian countries are winning here.

Yeah, because rumor on the street is that they're not pushing it that much in terms of the downloads and marketing spend.

Yeah.

Maybe it was the same thing that they did with Capi Baron Archo with this like

Asian

launch.

Asia Global Launch or whatever, how do you call it?

Yeah, just push and now we wait a little bit longer and then we'll see what happens.

So I was looking at some previous games to just like get a cross-comparison of what's happening here.

So during its initial month or whatever, its peak, Survivor IO.

This is a year, 628 days.

I know, but I wanted to align it by like a plunge.

Yeah, sure.

Okay.

This is as best that we get here.

Anyway,

so Survivor IO was doing something like a million a day

during this lunch and then just like went down half a little bit more because of that revenue.

50% add revenue, right?

So

one and a half.

And then Arch IPY, Archero to 600 plus Capybarago 600, Archero 1400, and Beetle Defender is basically the man making the list regarding that.

But one other thing that I wanted to show again.

Of course, you need to stack.

Always stack.

Beautiful stack.

Yeah, so this is the big difference we were talking about.

We still have big,

like the

Asian and five or whatever, the usual culprits.

But US

is the new boy band.

Asian five.

Asian five.

China, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and what was it?

Hong Kong or who's there?

I don't know.

Yeah.

So

US is 23% of revenue overall.

And US is still on top of the top

grossing country for

Survivor.

I.O.

If we do the same exercise for Archero,

Archero 2,

it will take some time.

It's doing nice revenue.

Yeah, still doing very good revenue.

Well, Archer 2, I'm saying.

So Terra wants 30% US overall revenue, still doing the top US revenue.

and archero two if it loads

is 26 percent us revenue and then comes the asian five

so yeah

this is a little bit different if we compare this now to if we want to continue this exercise to capy barragon

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dare i say that how do you moving away from like what they were doing like yeah from their quarters So after also

and Capybarago both went through the setup, as I said, Asian globe launch first, you see like this US, whatever

violet, or how do you call the color, is missing here in the beginning in both cases, but actually later down the line, it prevails.

That's the important message here that you see that in the beginning it was not launched there, but then it takes the major share of revenue, which is not happening here.

Yeah, I don't know.

Whittle Defender, because it's in the US and US is doing 8%,

which is again under big agent for this case.

Japan is not there.

So,

what this means, maybe they just went to core, or maybe they deliberately went to core and said, like, fuck it, we're going to do a different game.

Or, I don't know, because their template now, compared to Archero 1 template and Wheatle Defender template, are basically two different templates.

I mean like the

feature set and the corners of it went so deep that maybe they lost a lot of accessibility of those first initial version of the templates.

So we'll see.

They started pushing away ads.

Like they're nowhere near as prevalent as they were on Survivor.io for example.

And

Habi was known for being probably one of the first hybrid companies that kicked up this whole hybrid hybrid 50-50 monetization era.

This is nowhere near 50-50, like monetization IAP ads, right?

They're so pushed to the side.

Yeah, super hard, Corey.

Yeah, we can go, Felix.

Let's do the ads.

Yeah, I mean, even if you think very much.

Yeah,

the main thing, right?

It's like there's not that many users, right?

So even if I said that this game has 15 imp DAO on 65% of the user base for rewarded ads, it's still not even going to push the

50%, right?

Like, this is

anywhere between 20 to maybe 24%

ad revenue because the ad placements that you can really stack, they're hidden really well.

And it takes a while to find them, right?

The buy stamina in the store, and then the main one is actually capped, which is the revive one, which is one per run instead of the normal habby two rewarded ads per run, right?

So

here it's just ads have been completely pushed aside and this kind of also brings

like completely

anyway, right?

Since

they want

the audience for the ads, yeah, exactly.

So it's just, I'm just wondering, like, are they just switching business model or are they gearing up for something else?

Or like, what's going on here?

Do you remember like how even John, when we talked about the hybrid casual model, like how it's yeah, how it's just

a stepping stone towards either casual or mid-core or hardcore in this case.

So, Harvie's making Forex Max.

I don't think it's gonna go that far, but yeah, I don't think so.

I don't think so.

Although, I mean, they could

most probably, most probably, they could.

Yeah, we'll see.

But, yeah, this is going definitely two-core.

Like, uh, two core for their like usual setup of like very addressable market, very addressable audience, TikTokable survivor.io, whatever stuff that you have there.

And yeah, I mean, there is

a little bit more casual, basically.

Yeah, but is it?

Yeah, I mean, this game is the combination of Cappy Baro.

This game would never have interstitials.

They're gone.

Like, they're gone.

Yeah, but any other game with Survival, like, even Survivor.

IO wouldn't have interstitials.

I had interstitials after a run if you didn't watch a rewarded ad.

Interstitial, really?

Interstitials.

No.

I'm pretty sure they did.

No.

I'll have to go back and check our episode.

No, yeah, you should go back.

It's like a bad thing.

The episode is not there.

So if something new happens, or like they are,

I don't know what

probably no.

You don't try this

with us.

I mean, yeah, no, no.

It's like in this group, this is no.

All right.

Anyway,

$19,000 a day to 24 max.

To the 300.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So anywhere between like 5 to 10.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

19% maximum, maybe 22, but not more.

19% 60km off of that.

Or sorry, switched it a little bit less.

Yeah.

The total daily now, the total daily is 101,000 with the ads, right?

Yeah.

Two and a half million monthly IEP, right?

20K per day on ad revenue is 605,000 per month, which is 7.2 million a year.

So 20% ad revenue based.

8K per day

Yeah.

I must have put a Geo wrong then.

Yeah, it's like, come on, like, your exercise is letting you down, Mr.

Felix.

Where are the fucking decimals?

Yeah, it's like 20% out of 30k is definitely 60.

So

there is definitely a mistake.

Even, even.

Let's give Matty a little bit, you know, let's move to

a little bit breathing group so Felix can correct his Chat GPT

and

move us to the UA.

And don't be like this.

It's not ChatGPT.

So you can actually

leave the screen out and I can share.

Maybe.

Because even though, I mean, you didn't say when this was released, so it was June 9 or

June 9th.

Yeah, 6, 9, whatever.

And even when when you said it's not tick-tockable,

which I still believe it's not as tick-tockable as the other games, or maybe copybarry.

Oh.

You know, Survivor I/O concept is being used by pretty much every game.

Yeah.

Like the whole spinning blade thing, whatever stuff.

Yeah, well, of course.

That's definitely used by everything.

But this was launched a month ago, which I corrected.

I was missing the China revenue.

So it's actually 11% on revenue exactly, like Orbino said.

Okay, there we go.

Good.

Yeah, so I mean, this is definitely not, uh, I mean, look, it's site

plays, gameplay, not even gameplay, just stages and the characters.

I mean,

and this is this was launched June, kind of June 6th on TikTok.

So there is some some TikTok activity, but here you can see launching on TikTok doesn't make it TikTokable.

No, no, no, of course.

I mean, sure, doesn't.

Yeah, it doesn't.

But you see, thousand pages.

only

online,

everything, but they look, I mean, you're pretty familiar with all of this, yeah, of course, which is basically, I mean, they took survivor IO, but it's just you're standing in the middle, and everybody's just coming at you, which is in the game.

Two previous were, I think, not this is also the game.

Yeah, of course.

It doesn't really matter, it's just mass battles, basically.

One against the horde, and it's just everywhere, same thing all over again.

All, you know, they do have the top heroes kind of

top heroes color scheme, yeah.

And also, like, this exactly.

Uh, I don't think so.

No, no, no, no, no, no, just

goes next to the log and then just buys the

top heroes, yeah, it's absolute top heroes, man.

Like it's, I could see it from miles,

and that's you know, we have that,

and it's like

their

iOS today tab.

I mean, they use the Archer tool.

Yeah, it's pretty good.

Pretty good, actually.

And then it's

cheap the game is.

TikTok Business Creative.

TikTok Business Creative.

So they also use this on TikTok, which is kind of

faking the Today's tab on iOS featuring, and they just use it in here, which is great because they used also the same thing with ArcherO, just with the notes.

So they had the today's featuring, and then it was a note in the iOS notepad, and then just come a few

bullet points.

This also coming from Archero, it's the same thing as Archero.

Leveling up one week, which is basically the progression.

Yeah, exactly.

And

this, which is officially launching in

some hours, right?

TikTok again.

So we have all of this.

You know, you see

if you've seen this with Archer too, which is the

old, old version of a build of the game.

Could be because it's June.

It's before.

I think

this was run in the soft launch, basically.

But let's see.

I would want to say, like, they're running a lot of Facebook, Google, and TikTok, and then a little bit of uploading here.

But if we go to actual.

Why is uploading not more dominant there?

Honestly, it's never that dominant in any of the Chinese developers.

It's always Facebook and Google for some reason.

And then everything else.

You see, like, it's mainly tick to YouTube and Facebook.

Because it doesn't work that well in the East.

I don't think it

does not work on the East, but it's just

also, you remember how Facebook works in China, where you get

the kickback.

And

also, quicker payout schedules, right?

On TikTok.

And then let's see what we have here.

I'm gonna also sh

yeah, it's the same thing.

I mean, they're using the basically the same thing all over again in the in their

creative speeches.

And memes, of course.

So slow.

It's so slow.

Come on, like this should even this should be really, really even it's like the early game, it should be way, way faster.

I mean, everything else just super fast paced.

And like, like, come on, I'm already, I already died.

I already want to check something else.

I already want to check something else, but this is just kind of overall, and also, like, this is interesting, which is absolutely

one-to-one rat royale, yes, absolutely, or just uh

lucky defense, yeah, oh, yeah, kind of, yeah, and also like kind of combinations

in the last weeks

only 500 creatives, no, 500 pages, 500 pages.

No, not really.

Okay, so it's mostly either fake gameplay, normal gameplay, and UGC.

I feel like this guy wants to sell me a pack of uh Red Bull or monster.

Yeah,

and look, if we go new creatives only,

it's not gonna be that different.

It's a lot of different static images, which is good because you need to use them

in the mix.

And again, come on, I don't really get this.

Why don't you make a game and then use these type of ads?

And it's like

I can understand the art of the gameplay in the different

creatives, but not this really.

What do you mean?

But you're speaking for the Western market, right?

And this game is not big in the West at all.

True.

But what was the game?

Is this a representation of the game at all?

No.

No.

This is as fake as it can get.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So, but yeah, like, I don't get it because you can pretty much use

all the different variations of the mass battles and all the survivor IO types of gameplay.

And not this, like, this always had, like, the big the highest CPIs.

The Russia Royales and all, like, all the games that I managed with was Russia Royale clones.

Super high CPI.

As long as you stick to this kind of gameplay, it was really high CPI.

So why the fuck would you care?

That's what that's what I'm saying.

Because you have a defense game and you want our defense people,

which is fair enough.

Yeah, fair enough.

Let's check actual US only

lately, which is exactly the same.

A lot of static images on YouTube, even on YouTube, which is terrible.

And the bumper ads, which is

just

6% bumper ad.

Okay, thank you very much much again.

And let's go, let's go to check the up lab in as well.

And this is just like the

how Chinese developers work.

I'd rather play this game than Will Defender.

I need to

like uh you know what is the replica of the shadows.

I mean

Yeah, side-scrolling shooter, basically.

Yeah.

Galica, or how do you call it?

Yeah, well, yeah, whatever.

It's like.

Which is actually fine.

At least it's better than the

stuff that I saw.

But these things can monetize, man, Felix.

That's the problem.

Like, like you said, you would rather play that, but it's great that you play that, but you know, go play whatever.

I think I'm just disappointed because I haven't liked any Havi games since Survivor.io.

Oh, yeah, fair, fair.

Because they weren't super big on that.

And this is look, this is

the playable.

That's why.

This is a playable.

So this is the actual representation of the game.

Fine.

That's the only.

Yeah.

That's it.

How is this a playable?

Oh, well, they are playing, and then when I need to choose the skill, clickable.

Yeah, yeah.

Overpowered.

Let's see.

So I

it's yeah, you click here.

Streamlined version of the game.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I chose something else, which is you.

Well, I'm dead.

Yeah.

Thank you very much.

So I don't know.

I do believe that

the rumor on the street that they are not putting a lot of effort into this.

Not meaning a lot of effort, but I'm kind of marketing spent.

Keep in mind that they also have pretty big DAU of players already in those other four games.

Which means they don't really need to push this one or what?

No, no, I'm just saying that, you know, same thing with Toyo Wars, guys.

They're like pushing the kind of very similar games on the same market, which means it's hitting diminishing returns.

Okay, fair enough.

So, maybe they could launch some

how many more candy crashes can you make?

Yeah, not that much.

I mean, I heard what Felix is saying.

Maybe if they run actually a CTV campaign with Vibe,

that could be an interesting spike to the users because, you know, CTV ads were complicated before, but now it's

for everybody.

It's not anymore.

You need to spend a lot of million-dollar budgets.

You know, with Vibe, you can launch CTV ads on any network, you name it, in minutes.

It's that simple, totally self-serve, and it actually drives real business.

So go and

check out vibe.co because you know you can drive measurable growth with the most intuitive streaming TV ad platform, which is vibe.co thank you felix for

the mention

because vibe can can definitely help and you know like but this definitely needs to be a different creative because that wouldn't work on ctv yeah

yeah so they have i think pretty nice uh cinematic during the intro of start of the game yeah yeah yeah that's like a picture of style quality yeah what i'm saying is that similarly to hoiovers it's very

related to each other, like the game types, all our rogue light RPGs basically,

and how many more Archeros the market can support, even if it would be the best thing since Brett.

So what I think should happen is something that Century is doing, which is pretty much going into completely different genres and you know, throwing their know-how on top of it.

Like as having top Forex games, now they're going match three.

Look, you weren't talking about Forex?

There we go.

But you know, you get my point here, what I'm saying.

That, like,

and this is the this is the big disadvantage of their template, that they can churn out these games very fast and very quick, but they can churn out only these games.

Sure, but then, but you can play five candy crushes, you can play only one of these games.

But still, five candy crushes already didn't make it

they're making way more money than all of these together.

Yeah, exactly.

That's the point.

And also, these creatives did don't really help to drive the CPI down that much.

Didn't Habi invest in some studio recently?

Yeah, they just did their investment in a studio in Turkey.

Okay, so they're doing also.

Is that a hardcore studio or a like casual studio?

What kind of studio was it?

Because that would kind of signal where they're going, right?

Hardcore RPG studio in Turkey.

In Yeah, in Turkey.

So maybe my strategy or whatever I just said is already happening.

It's just kind of, you know, we're just seeing the first seeds of it.

And it's such great stuff from hubby.

So, hi, guys, if you're running the Vital Defender, which is fine, which is exactly the same thing that you run, then just change the fucking end card.

Come on, guys.

Like, you just, you just said, this is just lazy.

This is just lazy.

Yeah, so the studio is called Mavis Games and it was invested by hubby for 2 million dollars

and the studio is founded in 2018

has previously collaborated with hubby and has released titles including easy to learn and slide block puzzle so okay

Yes, exactly.

It's coming for Turkey Man, like what they're doing, like hardware, is common.

Yeah, exactly.

So, again, this is probably one of that vertical that they're trying to diversify.

Everybody from China.

Yes, everybody from China.

Because they're like, you know, RPG market is so fucking controlled now that everybody is eating each other's lunch, basically.

Well, there's not that many new RPG games anyway.

At least these look a little bit better.

But again, like TikTok, come on, guys.

Like, it's good.

and I'm pretty sure it's working well for this game, even with these creatives.

But for TikTok, you need way more faces and all of these creative challenge videos.

I mean, that's what's what had been working for me.

And maybe they're testing creatives on TikTok, and then they're moving it everywhere else afterwards because all of these new creatives on TikTok is pretty interesting.

Yeah, with this new investment, the studio now wants to push the boundaries of what's possible in the casual game space.

So they're definitely going for a puzzler.

Again, I think, of course, they saw what Roleg is doing, and they're like, We're gonna do this, yeah, like, hey, guys, like, we're gonna hire Turks for it, yeah, exactly

because Turks make it work,

that's the easiest way how to do things, like, just kind of you just buy, yeah, I think like it's a great strategy, like, honestly, yeah, no one's going to Helsinki anymore to buy companies, as you say, that, yes.

I mean, why is this not live on TikTok and it's it's live on Facebook instead?

I mean, I don't get it.

Yeah, all right.

Exactly.

I mean,

this is all good for TikTok instead.

Like, I'm pretty sure, like, it's oh,

yeah, this is interesting.

Yeah, it's nice.

CGI.

No, this is CGI, man.

No, this is not AI.

Maybe the images in the background.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's something.

Oh, man.

Okay.

One more, and then we are done.

Then we are done again super slow guys like this should be very

Maybe uh just waiting for another update because also they they updated the archer or two and then they start scaling again uh way more

So maybe this is gonna happen with this game as well enough creatives Yeah, no, enough

of course

Like the game's great, like, in my opinion.

Of course, because you can play it on the second monitor.

You don't really need to move a finger.

You don't really need to do anything.

I don't like it at all.

But yeah.

Good.

There you go.

Easy.

Thank you very much for listening and bearing with us until the very end.

Well, maybe we will meet with hubby at China Joy, and I hope we will.

And I hope they won't spit in our faces after this episode.

Ah, they're doing it great.

Like, like I said.

Yeah, they're good.

Turkey Turkey investment is really good strategy.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

So, thank you again for coming.

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Yeah, I really appreciate it.

Yeah, it's a lot of fun.

A lot for me, though.

But again, thank you, Roger.

See you next time.

Yeah, of course.

See you next time.

Bye-bye.