MAU'25 Live Special: The App Store Monopoly Is Cracking. Are You Ready?

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Click it fast, don't delay okay let's go yeah all right hello everybody this is matthew-Up Gamers. I'm your host for today.
We have a very special episode because we have special episodes, but this one is very special because we are at MAU and we are recording with Ixola. We have Damon and Bertha.
Guys, thank you very much. Thanks for having us.
Yes. It's a privilege to be here and to be at MAU and see the positivity, the mojo, the swagger that everything's going on right now.
And that happening in the mobile space, it's a good place to be. It's a good indicator of what's going on that a lot of people have attended this year.
Everyone's fired up downstairs. It's good to see.
It's good. Thanks for coming.
Can you introduce yourself and what you do and the company you're working in? Sure. So I'm Damon Marshall.
I'm SVP of mobile growth and partnerships. I am tasked with making sure that we grow our mobile channel.
We have a lot of products that apply to mobile and my role is to make sure we connect the dots with all the various products under the Exola umbrella and apply that to the mobile vertical. Hey, I'm Berkeley Agnes, Chief Marketing and Growth Officer here at Xola.
I've been here for almost five and a half years. It's been a great ride.
Seeing the progression that when we built web shops four years ago, from an idea to what it has become today and becoming industry standard and and call it the ogs of webshops and like one of our guys on the art and the product team is the godfather of webshops and like really built these put these together being forward thinking and so my job becomes to evangelize that and like help tell that story show what's possible meet with developers downstairs, you know, hanging out with developers and talking to them and explaining best practices. How do you leverage the new opportunities as we call them that came out of court cases and other things that go into it? What is possible? You know, we live in the TOS, like what is possible to get done? We had one developer just 30 minutes ago say to us that with all the challenges in the industry right now, looking at Xola, it gives us hope and it shows growth and positivity in the industry.
So that was really a nice thing to hear. That's pretty cool.
Yeah, because now a lot of things changed on the Apple side because of the ruling. So you said what's possible.

Sure.

Tell me more.

Let's start there. The first thing I think we should talk about is the fact that Fortnite just made it onto the App Store a few hours ago.
Again? Okay, good. Just finally launched.
So that's a big win. That's a big win right there.
And I think that starts the story. It's been a big journey in going into it.
And the whole idea is creating this direct consumer platform and really being able to market, communicate, engage with your consumers and do that as a mobile developer and being dependent upon the platforms, the app stores, call it what it is. And going into it, we always say your mobile game, launch on the app store, put it together.
It's the requirement, which goes on, put that together. Now figure out the monetization channels and the strategies that you want to go after.
There's multiple options to go do. There's multiple things.
There's always rules in the TOS that said you could do certain things. Now there's certain things you very clearly could not do prior to April 30th.
Post April 30th, call it the William Wallace freedom opportunity that we have. And then the developers can go do and really do from a direct link inside the game to market to your whales, to market to your users and say, we have a new offer or you're brand new.
You haven't downloaded my game yet, but you go into, you get a welcome offer and it's a one click opportunity up in the side of the app, click additional value offer and go into it through PlayStation and put that together through, um, the buy button for mobile games powered by Xola's web shop and PlayStation technologies to be able to make that in one click. And then you can pay with, even with Apple pay, like Apple pay being there, you're on the mobile device.
Why not click Apple pay? It's connected to everything else you have and put that together, be able to show that experience. You can do that for a welcome offer.
You can do that for a whale and personalize it in the United States, a user. And we're very, very clear, user in the United States and where this has and what's going on.
You can be a developer overseas, but your users in the United States, same rules apply us developer user inside the United States rules apply. You can go do this engagement.
Now what we're seeing, we're seeing developers test this. We're seeing them pushing to going into it.
You heard about Spotify being one of the first ones to be able to enable that and put that together. I mean, who's not on Spotify right now, but to be able to do it.
The big pain in the neck for them was I want to upgrade my account, my subscription. They're like, this stinks.
You can't do it. You have to go log on the laptop sitting over there to go do it.
And you're like, what? What's going on? Like from a Spotify perspective. But now you can go do that.
Same thing for games. One click.
You can do a welcome offer. to go do it and you're like what what's going on like from a spotify perspective but now you can go do that same thing for games one click you can do a welcome offer you can do an offer to your whales that has additional value you can customize and personalize and put that together and really be able to do that so we're seeing folks test through the buy bite and send it to the web shop to look at multiple offers.
But the unique one is go to a specific SKU.

Okay.

And to be able to go,

Hey,

we have a promotion during,

you know,

it's May here in Las Vegas. It could be something around something specific during the month of May.

It could be July in the United States.

It could be July 4th holiday promotion.

You could run that and be very specific to that one SKU and put that in there.

One click, player makes the purchase, they're back in the game playing.

And then who knows, they're in the session that they're in and they want to top up,

they'll go do it with an IAP and put that together.

And so honestly, everybody wins in this scenario.

You get more value as a user perspective.

You get something that's unique.

It could be, hey, I want to spend more than $100 that was previously capped in the app store.

I want to spend more than a hundred dollars that was previously capped in the app store.

I want to spend 250 because there's that additional value and opportunity.

And I see that so I can be able to go put that together.

Developer wins, more profits to invest in the game.

How does that attribution works then for that specific skew?

I want to be able to identify everything and then the users and just how does that attribution works then for that specific skew? I want to be able to identify everything and the users and just how does that connection works? Sure. So those are things that we look at and partners that we have engaged with, with AppsFlyer, obviously presenting MAU.
I've got to call them out here and a partner of ours that are going into it. So now through some of the announcements that we made through you can look at the full funnel

from that perspective and only at exola can you do this with apps flyer and put that together

instead of your studio head or data analytics head for your agent for your uh developer you're at the studio you're like i'm looking at this i'm looking at google analytics i'm looking at apps flyer i'm looking at page at publisher account I'm looking at Publisher Account, which is a solo platform.

You're looking at different places and where all this data is coming together.

Now you can go into one place and measure the attribution of what's going on.

You can run that program, test it.

You could go, hey, this program worked on a Tuesday.

This one didn't work on a Thursday.

You can do different things and mechanics and really dive into the audience.

And also optimizing your advertising strategy.

So knowing where the consumer came from and being able to watch that journey all the way through the web shop, whereas before it was disjointed. Now you have the ability to track that journey from, say, a Facebook ad all the way through to purchase.
Okay. So what changed for you guys when the ruling happened? You heard the news like, okay, what do we know? What do do we do now so i think that one of the things that happened is the apprehension or the you know a lot of these developers apple is uh you know despite what some people will say apple is a friend apple has one of the biggest stores in the industry okay yes they were charging a high fee to transact in that store.
You are so nice. I was guided by my marketing manager, not to say anything bad about Apple, but they are one of the biggest stores in the industry.
And they make it super easy to transact. So this is not an either or situation.
This is how do I augment or incrementally add to what I'm already doing in the app store. So right now, what changed this burden or the secrecy of trying to secretly or indirectly message my users.
Now we're going much more direct to say, you can buy this in either in the app store or for a benefit, you can go to the web shop and get a better deal more value something more specific to who i am as a user so there's a lot more segmentation a lot more like berkeley was saying it's either a first time user or a whale um now i can take my what we have is one of the most robust live ops platforms in the industry and figure out how I can use loyalty programs. Or now I know it's a first-time user.
Is it time-limited offers, scarcity offers? So, you know, all these various ways in which we can incentivize people to move to the web. Give me an example.
How does that work? So, in other words, let's say you have an item that's in the app store, funneling them over to the web shop. Not only do you have that item, you get 20% more and we get what's called loyalty points.
Loyalty points you can accrue and then get something for free through the web shop, which is not something that you can do. You can do in the app.
Some of the things to your point is like time period specific offers, FOMO offers. Take it to your top 50 whales and you know who those people are based on the data points that you have and push that out there.
And it was like, this is only for you. And this is a unique opportunity for you.
And you do discord channels. Literally you had a conversation 20 minutes ago downstairs about what should i do on my discord channel offer it to your discord channel and what's happening and offer that unique offer and it was like only you we love you in your community love what's going on to promote that and then when you're in there they've made that purchase through the webshop go into the game and then you serve them another like one click with the buy button and to be able to offer that opportunity up for an additional value.
And that's what we say. People are like, should I discount? Shouldn't I just discount? I'm like, don't discount.
No, absolutely not. Provide additional value.
These users want value. They will call your bluff on what's going on in the situation.
They also want relevance. So this is also about creating a direct relationship with your users as opposed to generalizing in the app store.
How does that kind of Discord promotion work from the process perspective? You create the link, you share it with the Discord channel. Simple as that and drive to the web shop.
And it's only unique to those users because you'll put like a codify and

like put that information in there, goes to the web shop, pulls up a dedicated

landing page that goes into it for these welcome game, ABC, Discord offer.

Here we go from a web shop perspective and be able to put that together.

Okay.

So how do you help developers after the ruling happened to leverage the web shops like, Because now everybody's like, oh, I should have a web shop. Suddenly.
So it's an interesting conversation. April 30th happened.
So it was what a Wednesday night when it all came down. So I was like, Thursday, you know, everybody's pulling all nighters, like trying to figure this out because it was like, what does this mean? Yeah.
So you spend the first week, everybody was like, Thursday, you know, everybody's pulling all-nighters, like trying to figure this out because it was like, what does this mean? So you spend the first week, everybody was like, what does this mean? Now we had some people testing straight away because they were ready to go. They had ABC scenarios figured out.
They have huge live ops teams, big monsters, AAA games. You can figure that out.
Then we had others that was like, because we were down in, I was in Brazil at the point in time that at gamescom latim and i was literally on stage on thursday we were talking about this and like what is happening what does this mean and the developers were like yeah we're gonna try it here's what's going on and put it together so you spend the next week trying to okay what are we gonna do now it's like let's go like let's put together we don't know one thing we always say is like should i have a website webshop that's the wrong question yeah it's why not you should be doing it right now from day one as you go into it yeah well i just want to say we have 500 webshops live so it's not like no one's nobody's all of a sudden everyone's like on the webshop train we have plenty of webshops out there it's just that a lot of developers were a little uncomfortable with how they promoted the webshop and how they drove traffic to the webshop i think april 30th opened up that kimono to say now just drive it down their throats a little bit more um there's no i mean there's still some shyness but i i just we saw huge games right when you log in go to the webshop pokemon go i think on their in their they have another, in the in-app store, they have a banner that says, visit our web shop. Those types of things.
Those things were not happening prior to April 30th. Now people feel more empowered to really promote it and push.
We're seeing average capture rates, and capture rate is the percentage of revenue web shop makes compared to your overall revenue capture rates were as low as five to ten percent maybe up to twenty percent for on average but now we're seeing now we're going to push to that 30 40 50 percent because we're going to see a lot more promotion right in your face in the app itself so that's that's the goal now and with back with the margin going from 30% to, say, 5% or 6%, that's going to be extremely meaningful to a lot of developers. Of course.
Yeah. But then again, how do you help the developers that don't have the web shop to actually start? So it's like, how do you get going in the conversation? So there's a lot of consultative conversations that we have.
We don't do the hard sell. We're like, hell, just do help.
It's just the level of education, right? Best practices, how to do it step-by-step, go through those processes. And then my team will get engaged from a marketing perspective with those games and how do we promote it, give them feedback on what's going on.
And Damon working with different ad networks and other people like that to put that stuff together and really it's a cohesive project it requires an ecosystem to do what's going on the interesting thing we've seen it's not limited to triple a's at all we're saying call it garage games call it whatever levels you can call it indies in the mid-tier i think it doesn't matter so we have an instant web shop that you can get up in minutes.

Okay.

It scrapes your app store and brings all the SKUs into a web interface using your assets.

Very simply.

We have SiteBuilder, which is the second step or maybe where a mid-tier would get a little bit more involved.

And then there's a third tier where Exola actually comes in and works with you to customize a really brilliant, well-thought-out web shop for massive users.

Thank you. where Xola actually comes in and works with you to customize a really brilliant,

well-thought-out web shop for massive users.

I know there are a lot of shops out there or companies out there that do just the templatized thing,

but we have a full team of 100 developers slash product people

that will audit your site and make it an extension of the game itself.

The question is how much better the custom webhop can be in terms of their revenue. It's pretty straightforward.
Well, in that instance, we really pushed the LiveOps platform, testing the various, because that's when you're really leaning in. And we've had all various types.
We've had companies that really are leaning in and have leaned in for the last few years, and then others that are just testing the water. So depending on how much you want to invest, we'll come with you and hold your hand.
You have a client success manager that has gleaned a ton of information and best practices from the 500 shops we've already launched. So we know a lot that we can share with the community to evaluate your game and then figure out where to test.
What are the best practices then? At least like a few, if you can mention, like what are the insights you're taking into consideration or actually building? Absolutely. I think we've talked about it a little bit, but it's knowing your user.
So first of all, segmentation. So are we dealing with a first time user? There's some friction.
I mean, again, going back to Apple, the benefit of Apple is it's super simple, right? And the consumer doesn't care about margin, right? So they want the easiest thing, right? Making sure you understand, is this a user that is a first time user of the web shop and coming in, giving them a heck of a deal right when they get there, maybe even a free item. It's something else we've employed all the way through to the whales.
So Berkeley mentioned that we can have more than a $99 SKU. So if there's, we've heard with the social casinos having to go in and buy $99 packs on the app store is a pain.
So now, Hey, how about just buying a $500 pack right now? So you only have to do it one time. Knowing the user segmentation is one thing.
We talked about loyalty. So that's another thing.
So accruing points and getting something other than the item that you're buying in the game, you're getting some extra value building up those points and redeeming that for something special that you can't get in the game or you can't buy a la carte or you have to grind to get it. Now you can earn it.
That's another thing. Those are a lot of the things that we...
And those are only possible in the web shops. And really getting into it, the personalization i think is the understated one and going into it i mean you hit the nail on the head personalize that offer you know based on user experience what they're purchasing on it could be tuesday fridays is the days that somebody makes a purchase it could be you know i come in once a month and i hit it and it could be after paycheck.
It could be whatever the scenario is and what's happening or you only buy on holiday.

So gas that holiday offer up to you because you're a holiday user and you're like every 15th of the month.

I'm in here buying like 14th.

Here you go.

Here's your offer because you're a whale and you know those numbers or what's going on.

Yeah.

To get it above that $100 transaction.

We're seeing $250, $500, $1,000, $10,000 transactions

for a mobile game.

Maybe so you're like, what?

What is happening?

Somebody's spending $10,000 on a digital package bundle?

It happens.

I'm not even surprised.

And everyone has their VIPs.

They should already have a direct relationship,

so it's communicating to those VIPs to get that personalized offer.

So there are a lot of different programs.

Another thing that we're doing is to launch is our offer wall product. So the offer wall product, I know the offer wall is a crowded space, but now we're going to attach an offer wall to the web shop.
So now we have a browser-based offer wall, not SDK. So I think the way we're going to envision it or launch it is you have your web shop and then you have another tab that's offer wall.
So you can either buy in the web shop or earn in the offer wall. And the great thing about our offer wall is the rev share for publishers is incredibly aggressive.
We're giving 90% of the revenue to our developers, which is extremely competitive. Well, Xola's strategy is to provide all the various tools for a developer to succeed.
And it's not as much about how much margin can we make as a company. I mean, that's obviously important, but we do a lot of different things and we have a lot of different products, OfferWall being one of them.
And it allows us to get aggressive with regards to that. Okay.
Do you think the web shops are, I mean, it's not a question if you should have a web shop, but like how does that change within the different genres? Because obviously with casual game, it's quite hard. Well, so I think the buy button to Berkeley's point helps casual games tremendously because you don't want to go through the friction for a 99 cent item.
No, of course. Right.
But if that 99 cent item, you hit a buy button and boom, you're just in an overlay, one or two clicks and it's done. That could really benefit the developer and the consumer because hopefully you're also offering something special within that one quick purchase.
But we're really excited about the fact that now we can go back to these casual developers and say, okay, now we've got a solution that will actually win for you. It doesn't have to be a first person shooter a big free to play like the casual games the user is skews obviously a little older they're used to making a transaction online and making that purchase or using the mobile browser to go do that google safari whatever to put that in there you know what phone obviously we're talking ios here and like what's going on i'll be able to make that transaction so it's a normal behavior that they're used to sometimes they get into app stores and get a little it's not as it's a little jarring sometimes in situations the rest of us who are playing other games and other things are used to that dynamic but casual games has actually picked up and we're seeing numbers upwards in the 20 30 40 percent you know purchases being made on the webshop for those casual games because it's just a normal behavior that they have from an e-column perspective just go back to e-column 101 and like what they're doing putting it together also with all the news over the last few weeks you can't ignore it now it's kind of a fomo thing it's kind of like everyone about web shops.
I've got a number of companies that were like, we're an ad based, you know, game and we're never going to do IEP or it's not, it's not as meaningful. I think that now they're starting to pay attention and even change some of their, some of their strategy to offer a little bit more because, because now they have the freedom to do this.
Do you have any benchmarks for the webshop revenue? If you have mid-core game, you can earn 30%, 40% more on the webshop. Yeah.
Well, I think that, first of all, you can get up to 50%, I would say at least 50% of your revenue coming from the webshop. But like I said before, capture rate is what we do.
That's our goal, our North north star as far as like how much what percentage of your revenue is now coming from the webshop versus your total revenue okay then let me rephrase like what's the percentage or like the increase of money you're now processing after the ruling so that's an interesting question so we were on a call we were on a call yesterday i think it was and we were putting it into it so game experiencing 20 to 30 okay you should be expecting 30 to 40 like because it's it removes the friction use the right word less friction with one click purchase and put that together go pay with it with apple pay or where we prefer payment method is and go into it. It's less steps, less clicks.
You can literally in one click through the buy button, be able to do this and put this together. So you're going to see that conversion rate go up, capture conversion purchase rates and then continue to go up.
And then you're going to see that I was like, I can do this because I was like a ran out of currency last week. I need to double down on this and put this together.
So you can see those transaction rates. And also messaging before we had to send, we couldn't send people directly to the web shop.
We had to send people to a blog or to discord. Or the creative world.
Yeah. It was a very indirect route to getting to the web shop.
So now we're seeing a lot more, like I said before, with Huge and some of these other guys, they're leaning forward, they're getting aggressive. I will say one of the biggest hurdles, one of the biggest challenges right now that I hear in the marketplace is we don't want to piss Apple off.
That's still there. The threat is still there.
Are they not going to feature me or am I not going to get the love that I need to get? is always very. And they can't say it, but they can do it.
But I think that if, you know, again, if everyone, if the movement takes shape and it is taking shape, there's not a lot that Apple can do. They can't punish everybody.
Yeah, they can't punish everybody. But I can see the world where they say, if you use our payment solution we'll feature you more we'll give you some yeah and like additional discover of the 100 sure and they've been doing that for a lot of reasons all the time you open you open up stores and there's like the the feature the hero banner is like five or six seven same companies all over again that's big ones come on So what is the threat? Is it really the threat? I guess people are really believing that Apple will do something for them.
Again, like I said, you don't want to become enemies with Apple. No, of course.
I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that.
It's just, yeah, if I want to earn more money, which I should, because I'm not doing anything wrong, and I don't really believe in getting enough value out of the 30% cut, thank you very much. I have to pay bills.
The question we should be asking is, what is Apple going to do? Apple's not just going to sit there and totally wait. This change represents significant revenue.
And so what I've been asking, and I don't know if the answer, what the answer will be, but Apple may lower that rate, right? And in that case, they become a much more legitimate competitor. And then how do we react to that? I would say that you still don't have a lot of the benefits of creating a direct relationship with your consumer.
I don't know if they'll do that,

but that's one thing that they can do.

And there are a number of other things that they can pull up.

That's the thing is like,

do you want to own it?

Do you want to own that relationship with your consumer?

Or do you want to be dependent on a platform to go do that?

It's part of the build process,

get it on the platform.

And so we always say pay online, but play on the device and put that together. You're always going to come back to that device.
I'm pretty sure you're in the marketing department. Yeah, something like that.
Somebody wrote that one once on and put that together. And it's a good – like putting it together but it's the reality because you're still going to see people come to the game, be in the middle of a session and need a top-up right there.
They're still going to make that IAP within the app store. It's still going to happen.
It's not a replacement. It's an and thing.
It's not an or. It's an and.
And we're also, there's some incrementality, right? So there's, because you're offering something special in the web shop, I may not have bought it in app, right? Right. But now I'm going to go buy it on the web shop.
And that's an incremental sale as opposed to just replacing the app store.

Do you see any interesting web shop strategies after the building?

Meaning shifting instead of just doing all the crazy creative stuff, just doing in your face web shop.

Here you go.

Like you mentioned before, is like anything interesting that people should know that they can try as well i think you're gonna see people take a bit of a hybrid approach yeah they're gonna test the buy button and put that out there you're gonna see fast adoption to that route because they're like oh like my cart abandonment is off the charts my less friction my speed my capture, my capture rate, all is going to go up. So you're going to see people double down on that.
What's going on? They're going to watch a few people. There are some that are going to watch.
Yeah. They're going to be hearing that a lot.
Slow movers. Like I want to wait and see.
Right. And see what happens.
It's only weeks away. Yeah.
So people are, we're definitely seeing a lean in. We're getting much more, many more phone calls now.
You're the whole chicken department. Well, I mean, you look at summertime and like user behavior and like, let's talk about kids and like out of college to high school kids, whatever, making purchases, they need something to do and they're going to be making one clicks and putting that together.
That's why we do what we do and look at, you know, child protection and things like that that go into conversations and two-factor identification. Like you figure all that stuff out to make sure that that's all set up, but it's all programmed into that experience.
So they keep it safe. You still keep it safe, even though it's less clicks because they'll keep a safe transaction, a validated transaction and go through it.
And they get people into the game.

Just literally enjoy the game.

Minimizing friction. We already talked about it.
But again, the login experience, right? When you get into the web shop, how are you authenticating, right? And there are a number of different ways in which you can do it. But we have an API that connects to the login where you go right into the app, get authenticated and come right back.
It's just a matter of how the developer wants to do it and how much they're willing to take advantage of the technology to make it as quick as possible. But I think that every step of the way, first you market and message, then you get them into the web shop.
You've got to authenticate quickly and easily. And then they're in the store just searching around.
Nice. Oh, everybody should get in the web shop.
Why not? Why wouldn't you? Be smart when you're looking at it because there's multiple providers, let's call it what it is, right? That are going out there. Making smart decisions, what's going on, look at someone who's validated 500 web shops.
We were asked in London, at PGC London, it was like, is this a real thing? And some folks were on stage and didn't have the answer, but we were 500 web shops. Over 2 billion in incremental transactions have been accepted through Xolo web shops.
To be able to put that together just comes with the math and doing 500, what's going into it. And that's continuing to grow.
And we're're seeing months which months are continuing to grow and expand and put that together look at the licensing agreements that people are giving you there are vc-backed companies out there right now that are looking at it that are low-balling and putting these things together but there's escalators that are rapidly being put into these contracts that are not always advantageous to a developer you have to look at that have your legal team go through these have an outside legal counsel if you're a garage if it's like us three as developers like putting it together we're going to go to an outside legal counsel and like take a look at that it's worth the time to go do that conversation look at when escalators happen look at what the that's being put together. We charge these customization websites and from a web shops, we charge zero on the front end.
We do not, we're not like an ad agency. We're not a creative department that goes into it where we're going to charge you a hundred grand to go build your web shop.
We're not going to charge you zero. If the game's successful, then we're successful.
But you're making money out of it. After the transaction.
After the transaction. The more transactions, the better for everybody.
Right. So we're on the same team.
Look, I would answer it this way. Exola, I don't know if a lot of people know this, but Exola is a 20-year-old company.
We've been in the space for a long time. We've been in the e-commerce space for a long time.
It's difficult. Yeah, welcome to the gaming.
But like commerce, there's customer service, there's, there's fraud, there's tax and compliance that we act as the merchant of record. Um, I know the other companies are also trying to do that, but it's hard to do with a 20 person, 60 person company.
We're over a thousand people. Now we have offices all over

the globe. We have a thousand different alternative payment methods for every emerging market to make it easy.
And I mean, I also understand that we have a safe way, a subway gift card that you can pay with. So a kid that gets a subway gift card for lunch can now actually buy.
solar gold it's allolo Gold is what we call it. So we have the experience, and I think that's a major differentiator for us as opposed to some of these other up-and-coming companies.
Obviously, now with this ruling... Of course.
And this is hot for the United States, so you're going to see countries roll in theory, like as you call it. You're going to see, is there the other guy, that other platform that's going to make some changes.
If you're reading articles, we wake up every morning. Okay.
What now? Like what's happening in the, in the space and going into it, but a thousand different payment methods to be able to do this in local places. Because if you're in Brazil and you're an unbanked player, you're going to use PIX as a digital wallet.
It's one of our preferred partners that we work with in Brazil, as an example. I say that because I was just down there for two weeks talking to folks and like the real impact from the economics that goes on.
And then you go to Southeast Asia, you go to India. India is a very challenging market.
It's got a ton of people there. So how do you transact in India? I would say that we're the experts in another differentiator just because we've been in the pain space for a long time I think that you've got to look at and then of course the stability of the company the other thing I would say is that I heard this is it something that someone at Xola told me today I'm a I'm a little bit new to Xola.
You're doing fine. 3,000 games, different games, 4,000 now? 4,000 different games touch an Xola product.
So that's a lot. That's a lot.
No, I don't think a lot of people can top that. So, again, tons of experience at Xola.
Nice. So what's next for Xola now to onboard or like help with web shows? So we're going to see live ops help support goes into it.
That's the critical factor you look at from a best practice perspective. How can we help in that perspective and give recommendations and support services to go into it? And then like, we're going to push, we're going to push with developers and they're going to pull us too.
We have a lot of developers pulling like, come on, come on, come on. Let's customize.
And we do, we look at our roadmaps and where we're going from our products and work with the developer and like, let's co-develop on something. Cause it's so specific to them and what's going on that that's the freedom and the choice that we give to developers is not take this off the shelf shove it in your game and it is what it is and we're doing the best we can because we're a vc-backed company it's like we will do full customization and put that together those are really the problems we're trying to tackle that we're like seeing already i mean we've been here with four hours and like here at mau and we're already having these meetings lined up and what's going on, and we have more people.
We had one guy who was like, Xolo, what are you doing here? Like, you're at MAU. I'm like, because it's mobile.
Of course, yeah. We have to be here.
This is where developers are, people that are making decisions, people ahead of growth. And I think that bodes well for the entire industry.
I mean, it's going to be a little bit more challenging or more expensive. Yeah, thank you for making my life harder.
But you are making more money. We're making more money.
It goes back to that comment that we were talking about earlier where Exola represents a positive in the industry that has had a lot of challenges over the last few years. So we're really excited about it.
And I think that Xolo will help lead the charge forward after this. The one thing I will also say is the battle's not done with Apple and Epic.
Things are going to change. This is probably a temporary, I don't want to say that it could be a temporary thing, but jump on.
I think it's changed so much. It's changed so much.
So don't sleep on it, right?

Take advantage while this window is open.

Who knows what's going to happen six months from now?

But the door is open right now, so it's time to jump on board.

Thank you very much for coming.

This was a good time.

Yeah, it's good.

I appreciate it.

Thanks, Montez.

Thank you very much, guys, for listening.

See you next time.

Bye-bye.