🐷​🧶​ Unravel Master’s success explained: 25 key insights on modern Hybrid-Casual design

trick mechanic because it's been like very popular in the puzzle genre.

But here it's done, I think, very where you have this X-ray kind of a laser which enables you to see into the layers that you don't like see on the surface basically, like a wall egg.

And then once you lose this trick, you lose this mechanic. So yeah, the question is, how did you kind of get to this or what was the thought beside? Yeah, so I'm really proud of this.

This was like such a fun,

such a fun catch. So basically, when we just started out rolling out this title, the competitors that we have were mostly screw games.

We started out with not having the x-ray, and we just had this talk at the office where I was just kind of wondering, like, why would they give this for free?

It literally changes the game and is like a super booster-type mechanic.

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Hello, everybody. Welcome to a special episode.
And this is special because it's another live review. It's been a while since we've been done this.
So, here we go. My name is Matjel Ancherich.

I'm Felix Broberg, and I'm Jakubremir.

And we are your hosts for today. And we have two special guests, not only one, but two, Paz and David.
Welcome to the show. Could you introduce yourself to the audience?

Sure. Ladies, first.

Sure. So I'm Paz.
I'm the studio manager working alongside with EO, which is the studio creating the game that we're going to be talking about.

So I'm just kind of directing the contact with the studio. Awesome.
And the company you work with is?

Oh, Supersonic. I should have mentioned that.
David, there you go. Yes.
One and only. There we go.

Yeah, I work with Supersonic, who are a publisher for

hyper games. And I'm David.
I'm managing all the Supersonic publishing activity in APAC. And so if anything relating to China, Vietnam, Japan, Korea, you can ask me.
Nice. That's great.

We just got back from Vietnam literally this week. Yeah.
Very interesting trip. Yeah.
And what game are we reviewing today? We said it was a very special episode, right? Yeah.

we're doing Unraveled Master. So, Jakub, can you show us the game? Yep.

I must say, I didn't lose my whole life

to the game because it is hard, but I know how to play the game finally. It is.
But since I know,

it's fine. And I love you brought this to me.
and my attention. Thank you very much.
This is a very special, it's a very special level for me. Yeah, I said the unicorn for you here.

Amazing.

Anyway, let's start just the basic rundown and i guess then then we'll get to the question and more like a description start so this is still part of the physics space genre pretty much so something along the lines of uh

scrudom or maybe like some some let's say that lineage that's coming from the puzzles that are you pretty much taking things apart that that's like one of the things there Yeah, very easy kind of a menu and very kind of usual start.

So we have the 3d space around now to kind of hop in hop out so that it's the first thing there then we have our usual bench mechanic that's like one of the key things in in the category that's been i think iterated and perfected around like many many times like we had this toolboxes coming from left and right now we're i think the industry kind of settled on the motion that like yeah there shouldn't be coming around and it should be kind of more predictive and easier because even the puzzles that we see in this category lately they they are a lot more, I would say, easy going on a first look, even though they can get very, very on a first look.

There's infinite layers, man. Like, what you're saying,

it's infinite layers. Because it's very approachable, but then it

pulls you in. So let's just say that.
So, again, what we're doing, it's a little bit of an onion layering. So, we have the outer layers, and we need to get rid of pretty much everything that's in the

not the picture, but the the object here so we slowly unravel the stuff here and the important part as you saw there was the physics stuff so gravity still applies and is pretty much part of the gameplay but then we have our usual boosters that that's there like that some typical but again the main uh

you know the main part of the show or like what was important here is that we have these slots of the yarns that are pretty much being taken out as we go.

And again, we can have more slots if you pay soft currency or watch a rewarded video which i'm guessing is the key key component here there's also a counter here which uh

again just tells you how many parts you're going in so some kind of progression bar and a little bit of like outside of corloop progression in the meta i'll get to it as i'll finish the level but again that that's pretty much it so i guess we we can go over to the questions and actually i get our stuff called here because as i said There's many nuances and many specifics here that we talked last.

And it's not the first time we're reviewing a game in this category. So, my first question.

Not the last one. Yeah, definitely not.
So,

first question would be, and as we talked

before, like, this looks kind of very approachable and easy to get into, but the difficulty ramps up even much harder than last time I'm going there. So, yeah, how would you approach this?

Or how do you approach the balancing of the difficulty and the push for conversion and how to get there?

Because, as I'm going, like, the main thing that I see as for the conversion push is, of course, these two

like additional yarns that you can unlock because at some point you get into this position let's imagine that there's like white one and uh violet one and I won't use any

surfaces that I could pull because I'm literally like guessing around like oh maybe there's something under this that I can use that's like you know let me get rid of and pull the into the bench and stuff like that but at some point like you don't have any choice Jacob I thought this was gonna be a question yeah yeah just saying like how I see it and then then then we go sorry so so guys like pause there like you need to really jump into the question as soon as yakub asks because you have

otherwise you have no chance of speaking yeah

okay so the the challenge of the levels are actually what makes this a puzzle right like if there wasn't a pressure point at some point this would have been just like a tap mechanic that you are endlessly kind of unraveling something.

This being a puzzle, we do introduce some difficulty inside the levels. Mostly like towards the end, obviously you do want to get inside the level first.

So there are like pressure points, obviously, and you can get around them with several options. You can either use boosters if you want to kind of, you know, go around it.

You can just do I assume we'll talk about this later, but you can either use like luck based decisions, right? Like you just unravel the correct one or like the lucky one that gives you the

color that you want afterwards and you can I don't know open another box like there are a lot of ways to unlock that difficulty but essentially yeah it's it's a puzzle game so it has to have some pressure point

is it the same level of difficulty for everyone or does it get changed if someone loses a bunch of levels in a row That's a good question. So

we do personalize the difficulty level.

Like a player that does very, very well and is very skillful in this would, after a set amount of levels would experience a specific skill like personalized to them and other way around of course.

So that's very cool. The shape of the object remains the same but the layout and the layering change.
Onion. The onion.

The onion.

Very cool. It's

different. Yeah.
Of course. That's there.

Yeah.

So I also want to say that like in the recent years, because the game comes from China, in the recent years, Chinese developers tend to to make puzzle games very, very early, very, very hard early on.

Because it seems like it's a bit hard to actually make a Zen puzzle gradually,

adding difficulty. But it's much easier to add the difficulty right from the start and just filter the players want to play this way.

So in the last two years, basically all the game puzzle games coming from China, they are using this kind of super hard difficulty early on.

It is changing now, but it has been industry standard locally, at least.

I think that's a really good point, actually, because David says this about China, but this is actually very fitting for hybrid monetization because we do need to have like day zero monetization to allow us to actually have

a idol, right? So this kind of fits very well together. And I think that goes very well for our collaboration with EO.
Like it just fits to the model that we're trying to create. Yeah, exactly.

Also, the origin is the same because because in China you need to ISBN number to use IP in the game and a lot of casual hybrid games they don't have to apply for that.

So they have to use the hybrid model, they have to use the as model so it will push like as the conversion very early. So that's kind of the reason why they are doing it this way.

One very interesting mechanic I want to touch on, maybe let's skip to this one now that we have it on the screen, is the streak mechanic because it's been like very popular in the puzzle genre.

Everybody kind of uses it, let's say, in Match 3 these days, where you would have additional boosters being put on the board once you have this trick.

But here it's done, I think, very unique, where this is again done through a mechanic specific to the genre where you have this X-ray kind of a laser which enables you to see into the layers that you don't

see on the surface basically, like a wall egg. And then once you lose this trick, you lose this mechanic.
So yeah, the question is, how did you kind of get to this or what was the thought?

Because last time we talked about this on Screw Master, this was something that was actually omitted from the loop because, in Scroodom, it's there, and again, it changes the difficulty pretty dramatically on the balancing side.

Yeah, so I'm really proud of this. This was like such a fun,

such a fun catch. So, basically, when we just started out rolling out this title, the competitors that we have were mostly screw games.
So, Screwdom is a very good example.

Obviously, we have Scrollmaster as well. And we just had this conversation like at the office because we started out with not having the x-ray just like we did in school.

And we just kind of played around. Like, I always play, like, I don't a third of my day, I play like the competitors.

And we just had this talk at the office where I was just kind of wondering, like, why would they give this for free? It literally changes the game and is like a super booster type mechanic.

Why would they offer it for free?

And then we just kind of had this idea of doing a streak where you get a prize where where it completely changes the game from almost luck based to like soft strategy which is much more you know um

skillful I would say like it adds that layer to the game but you know let's monetize it so obviously the psychology here is a loss aversion so we're just giving something for you to to have and usually most players get it on day zero unless they fail obviously but like if you do come up with the streak and this entices you to pass those levels, you would get them near the end of day zero and then basically just do whatever you can to not lose that ability.

So it must be a pretty big monetization point since it's not behind a rewarded ad, then, right?

For sure. Yeah, okay.
Oh, yeah.

It's actually such a strong. We had tons of tests on this, and it's such a strong point that we are already seeing competitors kind of copying this.
So, like, a total ego boost.

Yes, it's very amazing.

Again, I never seen this before because, again, as I said, lots of

like the philosophy and the paradigm is kind of the same, whereas, like, if you keep your string, you get more boosters, but never done in this format because this is, again, like a very special mechanic, just typical for this specific core, not the usual puzzle core and stuff like that.

So, yeah, that's that's perfect.

Yeah, my other question would be: as this is, as I said, uh, pretty much second or a different game from the category on your side, what would you say would be the biggest learning that you took from Screwmaster and then applied to this game as you were kind of progressing within the genre?

So, I think with this title, we came with more knowledge and I think a bit more strategy early on.

Like, we already knew that we're directing this to a more in-a-purchase-oriented title, so, not just RVs.

And this was basically the decision behind, you know, removing the RVs from the main pressure point that we have, which is the revive screen. And this was essentially just a business decision, right?

Because you almost can't maintain today a title with such a high CPI with a low output on day zero. So this is just something that we thought about kind of addressing the conversion of the title.

And this was a strategy from the very beginning. Like we had everything in mind before going into this instead of just kind of testing out and making decisions.
We had a very clear strategy.

I want to say that like PaaS helped us a lot because in the first game, Schoolmaster, we basically

are a bit conservative because that's kind of our first Chinese title and the monetization strategy is a bit different. And the result is pretty good.
So I'm a bit free to change it totally.

But PaaS came and helped me introduce a lot of new ideas and it worked out like extremely good. So I think here the team...

also our team like leveled up before that it's also a bit like a smaller team working on one game but with uh Unravel we really create a task force with all the different roles and they can help the game f from all angles and helping us to test the like uh features that we couldn't uh test uh before.

So everything levels up in this in this game.

Uh yeah, like I think you could really feel it and I think it's just like the current dynamic in the market that people are moving away even from the let's say the hybrid monetization and all the hybrids are kind of switching to either casual or mid-core games, whereas the IP ad ratio is just moving in favor of IPs.

So

at least that's what we see, or like that, that's my usual kind of setup, even with clients that help us make more IPs instead of ad revenue. So, yeah, the kind of revenue is getting squeezed.

Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. Last one, from my point, until I get to the point.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Would you say,

because I think it was way when we talked about Screwmaster, it was more like 70%

in-apps, in-app ads versus 30%

IIPs. Would it be like the other way around here? So it's like very much in favor.
Yeah, I blink once

if you agree.

Starting out, we had a very high in-app purchase share with this approach. So a lot of conversion, and then obviously, like, players are, this is a very addicting mechanic.

so i have like you know my my upstairs neighbor plays this without knowing that i'm into it

so we keep seeing like people really really sticking to this title and um so recurring purchases are something that helps us a lot with this share

but i think we are kind of trying to reach the 60 40 50 50 because it is still a hybrid title yeah yeah yeah okay

if they don't want to pay if they don't want to be that type of player, it's fine. We offer them another way out, usually.

But you would just have to kind of, I don't know, kind of decide which way you're playing because in the level itself, you can choose to watch Alvis and you can choose to not get to the revived screen.

But once you do, it's just like it is what it is. Yeah, yeah, sure.
Definitely. So the next game is going to be more IIPs.
This is more like in the middle, 50-50 or 60-40.

And the next one, you will go into the way that Yaku mentions.

Instead of going 50-50, just go more towards IIP. What do I know? It's just

casual gaming, like before getting into hybrid. I came from casual gaming.
I have to say, this is so much more rewarding.

Like in casual, you maybe convert the player somewhere around day seven, and it's only like two percent, three percent of players. Maybe, yeah, maybe.

Maybe,

like, if you're a good title. So, I think this is so much more rewarding, and we can can actually see engagement with the RVs as a way to measure what players like and don't like.

It's not just like giving them a reward for something. You know that they would choose to invest in something, at least to invest their time.

And you can literally see how players like to play and adjust accordingly. And this is like, it's an amazing resource to understand their behavior.
So I love this type of hybridization.

I'm pretty sure UA team loves it as well. I do.
I do. I do.
I'm just curious before moving on to the admon questions.

It's just, so when you said that thing in the start about the difficulty, do you just look at how long it takes players to pass levels and decide difficulty based on that or the amount of fails?

The amount of fails. Okay.
Okay. Cool.
APS curve. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.

Yeah, just finishing the feature set here as we went out of the level. So there's the, let's say, the soft regression mechanic of you getting points and needing actual, let's say, environments.
Yeah.

closest to like a renovation mechanic as we can get because there's like again few shapes that you can get here and i guess you continue but again it's very soft and most of the game is still concentrated heavily in the core so it's not not one of those like we have 20 different metagame layers it's more of again the core is the the king here okay yeah last one from my side it would be the ua question or like this is pretty much the topic and the theme of the last years now where UA is getting into product and it's getting more and more prominent than the product itself actually because the only thing that matters in the end is scaling the game through volumes of users which are extremely expensive and their CPI is extremely high and then games actually implement stuff into the product onboarding funnel and even themselves are kind of catered towards like how can we best help the UA team in order to kind of scale this up.

So what would you say would be now like again this is again not the first game that we see here in this like knitting yarn wool style kind of mechanic, which I guess works a little bit better.

What would you say would be the product market fit or like as you were going forward with this when you were thinking about like, should we do this? Should we do screws? Should we do physics?

Should we do maybe something else? So I think the yarn mechanic, the yarn theme is obviously CPI related. We saw that there's a trend and this is how we come up with like new ideas to test out.

And obviously this is something that EO introduced to us.

But deciding on like, we have other titles that we do take on the yarn theme, obviously, for CPI reasons.

The screw came before, right? The yarn is just kind of a byproduct of it.

So, I think that there's like trends that we see, and we try to like we have a good mechanic, or we come up, or we find a good mechanic, and we just try it out with different themes, with different kind of, I don't know, looks and

you know, art styles, stuff like that.

And it just like, but this is, I think, this is beyond like the unraveling part is much more beyond just the trend. It's like so fulfilling, right? It's ASML.
It's very satisfying.

It's very satisfying. Yeah, so it's just like more than the actual, you know, CPI or creatives.
This is just like there's something about this.

Actually, your games worked in hyper-Cairo ages like a long, long time with us. So finding those CPI themes, finding things that are super satisfying is their nature.

It's not something they learn today. It's like uh they used to test the say low CPI prototypes, DIY games with us for a long time.
So they know what they are doing.

They don't need to learn anything like they naturally knows what is satisfying. Nice.

That's very important.

Extremely important.

Extremely important.

No, because also it's very important to be one of the first ones on the market because now it's like what like 20 of clones, and then the CPI is not as great anymore for them.

Yeah, you should know the timing is, yeah, yeah, timing is pretty important.

Yeah, we did, we did try to scale as soon as possible because even before the soft launch, we started seeing like we were already on the market but not scaling just yet.

And we already saw competitors looking like level one

exactly exactly the same, yeah, level one.

And what would you do in these cases? Like, then, well, like, it's there anything besides

rush it to the market? Yeah, exactly. Like, what do you think? David and I actually had like a long,

like, we had long discussions about this, right?

Because on the one hand, we started out without like the whole mechanic with the core, the wind streak, the x-ray, and we were debating a lot whether or not we want to release it before.

And then, like, already being on the market, change

that direction. And we were so kind of frustrated because we knew that we had to do it, like we had to change that direction before we go scaling.

And it was just like a rush to get there. We just worked a lot and the developer were amazing.
Like they worked so hard on this to get it to be first or,

I assume we were first, at least in our

like

Yeah, like in in this variation of the game for sure we were the only ones we're just now starting to see copycats.

Yeah, it was a long debate, like everyone pulling for every direction, but we just we knew we had to get it right.

Do you notice these copycats are taking your revenue share a little bit, or it's just like

CPI annoyance really?

Yeah, it was more of a concern, yeah. Yeah, I think with all these puzzle games, everyone looks more or less similar with each other.
It doesn't really matter. You have to compete whatever you can.

And also, I think Scootom really gave us the patience because, like, Scoodom didn't arrive to the market as the first one, but it performed pretty well.

It means if we take time to improve our game, even if we are not the first one to the market, we can still be successful. That's very true.
Right.

Do we want to do numbers while we do admon, or should we save that for after the admon questions?

Yeah,

I wanna see how Jakub struggles with playing this game. All right, okay, let's let's let him play.

Let him play. So, last time we had Supersonic on, they were talking about how they were looking at ECPM values of cached ads to basically determine if to serve an interstitial or a rewarded ad.

And that was quite interesting on the mediation setup, what they're kind of doing there. What kind of mediation tricks are you guys doing on this title? We don't actually have any tricks.

Not a big secret. Just, you know, we do like waterfall mediation.
We avert resources to what works and reduce sources to what doesn't work.

We keep being very vigilant on every campaign that we do, but there's no like,

you know, there are different campaigns for different types of users to kind of get them, but there's no tricks here. We just.

I think even though we have no tricks here, like Supersonic has been a big, big publisher for years and we actually practiced and tested all the setups.

So even though we have no tricks, but we are pretty sure we are up to the best practice of the industry. So probably that's why we think there's no secrets, but we're just using all the

best practice we get from our partners. Cool.
So it's pretty much just a regular setup with bidders, some networks on placements, and then maybe some bid floors as well for some geos.

I guess we avoid all the mistakes. Cool.
And how did you decide on ad frequency, right?

Because every time I play a level, the first thing I do is watch one rewarded ad to start off, because basically that decreases the difficulty quite a lot.

But how do you decide on the frequency you want to start with interstitials, for example?

So we're actually just now starting out even discussing and testing out interstitials, so I don't actually have an answer just yet.

For sure I will, maybe in a month, or just inside you know, we might decide that this is just not the the direction. But we offer R V s mostly.

So inside the level itself, we offer you the ability to choose to watch an R ROV for, you know, to create whatever level of difficulty that you want to engage in.

I know that there's a lot of players that right off the bat just open another box to make it easier, and some like the pressure and like the skill. I do it at the end, at the end of the level.

Come on, man. I do it at the start.

I do a good start.

My heart is broken, guys. We have the debate about it, but I play the same way.

I started two boxes right from the start and also our the team leaders eventually we find less than 10 of players are doing playing that way so it's not a big issue unique we're unique jakub

yeah we're just min-maxing that that's you're not min-maxing you're just you're just the noob version

yeah but the majority of players do like the the the pressure and exactly

aspect of it and uh like i'm the same i only open a box when i absolutely have to

using boosters, like whatever is necessary. So, a much more kind of puzzle, like classic puzzle.

But the thing is that we're just a player that learns the game knows that they can use whatever is necessary to make it their own, right?

Some players just like the zen of it, and then they'll open the boxes and just you know unravel away. And some will like the pressure and the difficulty of it.

So, we just offer them to watch and choose to watch whatever they want to make it their own like level.

Yeah.

So I'm just going to unravel or not unravel. That's a really good

saying here, but I'm just going to talk about what you said because I think it's very important. So that's one of the biggest trends that I've seen probably in game development the last two years.

So interstitial ads absolutely crater your retention, right?

So if you can get good ad revenue, which I think you have on this

with only rewarded ads, that is so much better than to even involving interstitial ads, right?

So now I guess the interesting thing is how are you guys going to be unrolling interstitial ads or how much you're actually going to be doing it?

Because I have a feeling here the impact is somewhere between five and seven on the rewarded side, probably on 60 to 70% on the ad viewer rate, if that's roughly correct. Blink once.

No? All right.

So the interstitials were a debate. Yeah.

For sure. Like, I love the aspect of the player choosing to watch it.
We are testing it right now.

And the idea is just to have, like, I think when introducing interstitials, first of all, it cannot be too much.

And I think there has to be a habit to it, like, some kind of a rule that the player can predict. And it doesn't catch them by surprise.

So, like, if we introduce an interstitial at the end of every level, if it wasn't, like, immediately after an RV, right?

the player knows that at the end of every level there is an interstitial and they kind of anticipate it and so it doesn't bother them as much.

Of course, it depends on when you introduce it, and you have to like test it out. And for sure, paying users will never get an interstitial for sure.

I think that I agree that it does damage retention, obviously, but there's a fine line between trying to get like as much alcohol as you can, and

you know, I don't know, you have to balance it, I guess.

Yeah, it's a trade-off.

Yeah, and I've long been for the last six months, I've also been talking about how banner ECPMs has been absolutely dropping off a cliff in the last two years, right?

I also noticed there's no banners here, right? So what's the kind of decision-making behind not having banners? How do you feel towards banners right now? That's also a debate. Yeah.

So I kind of agree. I think that the whole kind of approach to this title was just to have the level be at...
you know, the center of attention, like the main focus.

And everything that kind of blinks or, you know, draws attention is something that I would rather not have.

But again, at some point in the lifetime of the game, you have to introduce things that blink, things that draw attention with offers, with, I don't know, live ops, whatever it is.

And at some point, again, it's just a balancing act. If it's worth it, I'm sure we will test it at some point because you have to.
I have to know whether or not it's worth it.

But I wouldn't damage the game experience for it, I think. maybe maybe

interstitials could be so annoying it would actually increase the conversion rate to payers true and that's also a good approach like a lot of um old school i don't know how old but like old school hyper that's what they did right the only offer that they did with no ads pack so that's also maybe something to to consider it just uh occurred to me as well right since you have such a high uh percentage of iaps here would you also consider at some point offer walls or is that a step too far and you don't think it would work?

I don't know to answer that, but

that's how we're considering right now. All right.
So before giving it over to you, you don't need to answer this, right?

But I think, based on my estimates here, that this game is earning anywhere between 10 to 12k a day in ad revenue from the rewarded ad setup.

But in the last weekend, since it was Thanksgiving, I think that probably number was close to 16 because it was Black Friday in America.

So

don't need to continue if you want. Yeah, I don't need to answer that.
But yeah, that's what I'm saying, not what you're saying, right? But yeah.

So I haven't actually looked at just US for the past weekend. We have an amazing monetization manager who is already kind of dissecting everything and looking into it.
I can get back to you. I maybe.

No pressure.

Maybe.

She's a true. Like we never check US individually because we are more product people.
We more focus on how to improve the product. So, you as a role, we truly don't know.

Yaku,

I think it's enough. Let's just go to the numbers.
You are struggling with that level for the past 15 minutes.

I do have to say, though, just like just something on that specifically, that I do think that during the holidays, we won't necessarily see more ad revenue.

We would definitely see more in-a-purchase revenue, but not always.

Like, there is, if we average it, then it would be about the same for the DAO. We would see a higher DAO, we would see better installs, we would see a lot of like improvements in the game.

But the average, especially for ads, basically stays

well, it doesn't increase as much as you would expect, but still, like, the overall is obviously better during the holidays. Okay, here's your favorite metric, Felix.

I think that's the estimate based on 200k DAU.

And then

download twice

a day. It has to be definitely very pricey.
And And

you can have your part. And then

yeah, 20k day. I think there's some kind of artifact here, or I don't know what was happening with the sensor tower data.
You need to do an episode with the sensor tower. Yeah.

Because I kind of like feel like especially when the CPI is high, the DAO is low. cut this part because i feel like if the doll is low their data getting more and more more skewed yeah yeah

that's always like the lower it gets, the less the accuracy.

But just one thing, last thing that I wanted to point out, which is like the category itself, it's just like this is, yeah, this is physics. Yeah, we're there as usual.

If we go by save the pets, yeah, save the pets. Uh, if you go taxonomy, which is physics-based, there's angry birds there, and then you are right there basically on the third sport in the category.

Yeah, yeah, so revenue-wise only, like without the approach, of course.

So, IP revenue, and yeah, if we go by downloads, we see a lot of different things basically from save the pads to yeah, well, I guess whatever that is. I hope this is not forex

because it could work.

It's brave stars, it's not gonna be

forex, okay, because we've seen

maybe in five years, it will be right, yeah, exactly, yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe, yeah, but uh, good job overall, like uh, stare. I think, Matt, you can take this over.

Yeah, because we're going to do the latest favorite kind of KPIs and comparisons because we're talking about the creatives and UA and stuff, and I'm going to go to questions.

But our favorite new metric is the number of creatives in the last 30 days, which usually says a lot and kind of shows the scale and the UA potential and

all around it. And based on the numbers that Jakub mentioned, which is like K

revenue in the last 30 days, which is IIP only,

1,000 creatives is a very solid number. So what was the how did you allocate the budget between the different

channels? Yeah, so I mentioned this before. Basically, we just work with channels that our UA team has already has knowledge of, but we also are trying out new

channels and new approaches.

But essentially, we just allocate budget to campaigns that work and you know yeah you know sources that work and then decrease budget for those that don't and then try to maybe revise and try again like this is

better way to put it is uh we are a data-driven company

of course yeah

of course nice yeah i mean makes sense

we've discussed this quite a lot with uh with your colleagues and i think you are

the same company so you know how it works.

Well, you know what, let me share actually this tab because Sensor Tower doesn't really show the Facebook properly and I see a lot of different creeps on Facebook which are really interesting.

So let's say let's let's look at this one.

So

yes. There's very interesting

effect right there and the hook obviously. But we have more.
More of these. Wait a second.

More of this. It's not only ice, it's chocolate as well.
Yeah.

And we have more pigs. So, do pigs work?

I guess

they do, right?

So, the pig is

a funny story. We had the campaign with the pig essentially before all of these effects, and it did so well.

Like, that specific character, I do not know why, but it was just, it was such a good campaign, like, such a good creative, both in

retention.

And I think that kind of just like,

look at what a cute character that is. And it's

a good thing with it. So I think it just kind of took off, you know, it branched out that specific piggy.
We use that character a lot. Like,

probably in live ops, you will see it in like other things. But yeah, it's just such a good character.
It just came out of nowhere, but we saw that it does very well with the players.

Like, there was a fun story of this peak. There was a game I think in 2022 we tested on Supersonic with other published developers.

The name also have like in the title of name also have unravel something.

And when I was searching for initial idea for this game, I saw that game and that game has the highest ECPM on record for Supersonic.

So I immediately shared the idea to the developer, so they recreated this. The peak is their choice, but the concept of video is from our past experience, like a very cool.

So, Pasiukan Jack is like, I think they have some like 80 ECPM on Iron Sauce, like an all-time high for Supersonic.

It's a legacy from Hyper Caro agents.

This is amazing. That's a lot.

That's a lot, yeah.

It's a lot, yeah. Felix, can you benchmark this for people to understand? Because I don't think so.
They understand.

I've gotten $80 ECPM on one game, and it was basically the competitor to Empires and Puzzles. And they had a 9%

advert rate. Yeah, exactly.
And they were getting $80 ECPMs, and they were only showing 0.01 rewarded ad per DAO

and very low scale, right? And they were getting $80 ECPM, but they're getting that at scale is absolutely not. Absolutely insane.
It's insane.

This also, we are looking at, by the way, like on two-minute long version of Unraveling Piggy. this is perfect.

Yeah, this is super satisfying, and also, like, it's exactly like how it should be because you saw 10 different versions, and now we see also a long version. So, this

is perfect. Also, what I'm looking at here is also like a two-minute long, and it looks like an AI.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This was definitely okay, this was definitely what's your approach to the AI kind of side of this creative production? So we did tests initially with AI and we are

embracing whatever is new and we are trying out new things. I think generally it's like we approach creatives in general or how you would.

You try out everything that is available to you and you see what works. And when it does work,

you know, invest more time or money or resources into it. And if it doesn't, I don't know, maybe kind of scale back and try again at another time if you have like different

capabilities or something like that. But I do think that we will see like an increase in our usage of AI in 2026 for sure.
That's our prediction

right there. Yeah, exactly.
That's 50% of creativity done by AI. Sorry.

I will say that the creative that you just showed, like the weaving thing, that's actually a really cool collaboration that we did with the creative team uh we had that so this is a mini game that eo introduced to us this weaving mini game and we added it to unravel not just for extra content but also to be part of the creatives and we just tested it out and it proved to be really like

this one right

so this is actually something that you'll see now in unravel on the stores

how often do you show it is it between levels or when do you decide to show it so it's uh it's not a live op. It's not like a talent-based mechanic.

It's a mini game that you unlock levels for this weaving mini-game by

advancing in the core levels. Okay.
Very cool.

When do you introduce your level 20, 40, 10, 15?

To be determined. We're still testing it out.

All right, all right, all right, all right. I haven't seen it until level 10, so I guess it's kind of late because the levels are very long.

Super long, super long.

I mean,

makes sense. You know what? Also, it's great that I can also see, it's a mix of different,

well, different, it's thousands of creatives, and we also see playables, which is exactly what I always want to see when we're talking about different games.

So, I mean, this is, this is well done, guys. I mean, good job.

Because we usually, you know, like the The usual problem we face when we discuss games is people are just scaling and they are just getting to 2 million monthly revenue with 10 ads.

And they're like, oh, wait a second. And then suddenly we see a huge drop-off of spend, and then the revenue goes down as well.
So, here, I mean, this is like preparation how it should be. Because

this is one playable, second playable, so many different videos. Look at this playable.
Oh my God.

Yeah, I love it. Our creative team is amazing.
They're supporting us so much. Like, they give us

how it should be.

This is how it should be. Yeah.

It's because then you have your static images. Perfect.
Yeah, I mean,

all of this. So we have a thousand creatives, and if we go just new creatives only for last three days, it's 741.
Thank you very much. Wow.

So, yeah, kudos to the team, guys.

Really well done. So, I think.

Wait, last question. How many people in your creative team? Many.
I don't actually, I don't know. Many, okay.
A lot.

There's a creative team for all of Supersonic, right? And kind of with, again, we allocate resources according to needs. So I don't know how many people are actually working on

it at any given time. I assume a lot.

Yeah.

Funny stories.

Like once I visited the Tel Aviv office, noticed someone is like having phone calls all day.

He's like a 911, like a receptionist

taking phone calls. And I asked people,

what does he do? Why does he

taking phone calls all the day? And it turns out that he is managing all the creatives production.

communicating with the creative team so he's like a full-time job taking phone calls and yeah nice managing all these things you need to coordinate people to get these types of creatives.

This is so funny.

This is amazing. I wasn't really this excited for so long when we talk about different casual games.
Recently, they are scaling so much. So again, like kudos to the UA team and the creative team.

And also kudos to you guys for just making such a great game. Yeah, well done.
Innovation, preparation, everything looks like it's firing on all cylinders. Really cool to see.
Yeah.

Strigbika I think this is really interesting that I must say.

Any any last comments you would like to share with the audience, like where they can approach you, or just if they want to talk to you, or how can they find you?

Of course, we're always looking at people approaching us, like new studios to work with, and we're very happy to kind of be talking to new studios. There's a Supersonic

like general email that they can approach us for anything. There's also the site for Supersonic where they can just kind of approach us either with kind of prototype ideas or for

whatever. Yeah, and reach us on LinkedIn, we will reply.
So,

perfect. I will add your LinkedIn profiles into the show notes.

Awesome. Thank you very much for coming.
Also, dear listeners, thank you very much for listening until the very end. Please join the Slack channel.

If you have any comments, any questions, please comment under the video and see you next time.

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