227: Disclose or Nah?!

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We just like slowly add nalongs.

I know.

You guys, look how cute my little friend is.

Look at my little friend.

He's got flowers.

Oh, I thought they were a bowl of fruit.

I also initially thought they were grapes, but I think that it's a bouquet and he's like nervous and about to present it to somebody.

He's so cute.

Yeah.

I love him so much.

Oh, he's just the most adorable little guy.

Yeah.

But here we go.

Yes.

Another week, another episode, another crazy batch of stories.

I'm so excited for this theme.

We've been talking about this theme for a while now and I've been like anticipating.

Almost a month, actually.

This theme's been on my radar for almost a month.

And you guys are probably reading the title and you're like, what is this going to be?

So I think there's a lot of stories I've seen lately.

And they kind of all have the underlying theme of disclosure and like to disclose or not to disclose.

Right.

Like, should I tell this person this thing?

Yeah.

And am I obligated to tell this person this thing?

Yes.

And I think there's so many instances in life where it comes up, whether it's like a relationship and a partner.

And it's like, do you have to disclose the past or a job?

And it's like, you're applying for a new job and you know you're pregnant, but you're not going to tell them because otherwise you're not going to get hired.

So there's so many things.

And like the stories I keep seeing are like all about disclosure.

And like someone might have disclosed something and they didn't need to, or they're thinking about disclosing.

So that's the vibe today.

I'm excited.

We've got some crazy ones and you found one as well.

Yes, of course.

And I'm so thrilled to present it to you.

It's like if you listen to one of our bonus episodes, it's sort of a different POV on a story we had there.

So I'm excited about that.

Yes.

Oh my gosh, the Patreons for this month have been so fun too.

It's literally all you, me, and Lauren.

Like we did a trio episode.

So if you guys have been wanting the Michaela, Lauren, me trio, we test trial, runned it, test.

It's so sleepover vibes.

Like it really feels like it.

That's my feeling.

It was so fun.

It was total sleepover vibes.

So that's on Patreon.

And then me and you did one.

And I still had my

like chin wrap from surgery.

Is that the one where we have the two uptakes, the like stick, the our patches?

Our patches, yeah.

Our patch sweatshirts.

Yeah.

So you'd see those over there.

And then the other one is me and Lauren.

So like it is, it's a girls, girls month on Patreon.

That's awesome.

If you want some good bonus stuff, head over to Patreon.

But let's get into these stories.

Okay.

Okay.

I'm ready.

I'm buckled.

Let's dive in.

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Woo!

Okay.

I've been waiting for this one.

And we kind of talked about it a little bit, like right after my surgery.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And everyone's like, surgery, what the hell did you do?

So I ended up getting

a deep plain neck contour.

I think that's the formal term.

That sounded so scientific.

I believe you.

I think that's right.

I still don't really like, I understand what we did because, like, your brother, Tyler Oakland, who was my surgeon, I know him.

It's so crazy.

But he did such a good job explaining it.

And he's like, you know, we just do a little incision here and then we go behind your platysmus muscle or whatever that one's called.

Yeah.

Honestly, like, and I'm not just saying this because he's your brother.

No,

he has the best bedside manner out of any doctor I've ever met and that includes working in hospitals emergency rooms anywhere thank you like I had to I saw like someone else this week for um like chin filler and who's also a plastic surgeon and like couldn't explain anything like couldn't do I'm just like It's such a big part of it, I feel because like it's such a big decision.

You get so nervous and like you want to be able to talk through all of your concerns and not feel like you're going to annoy them by asking a question.

I know.

Yeah.

And like he's just so great at explaining and making you feel comfortable.

And just like, it was just the best, best, best experience.

And this is something I've wanted for years now.

Like I've always been so self-conscious of like my little turkey neck and it's very genetic for me.

If you look at like my grandma and my mom.

And so it's something I really wanted to do, especially before the wedding.

I just like wanted to feel my absolute best.

Yeah.

So I did that.

And I'm like two weeks post-op right now.

So like still a little swelling, but it's just

a faster recovery though than like one would expect, I feel.

I never had pain really.

Yeah.

Like a little sore, but like no pain.

It's been like the easiest recovery ever.

Yay.

And the results already for like two weeks out still swollen.

I'm like, okay, I can already see such a difference.

Yeah.

So I'm really excited.

That's so awesome.

Yeah.

So if anyone wants to look into like neck contouring, like deep plain necklift, Tyler Oakland is amazing.

And I'm not getting paid to say that.

Like that's just genuinely like 10 out of 10 would do this again tomorrow.

Thanks, Diva.

I mean, there are a lot of like non-surgical alternatives.

Like Kybella, I think they like put acid in your neck or something.

I've tried Kybella.

It didn't work.

Yeah.

I just think you bullfrog and it.

It honestly feels like venom.

Yeah.

In your face.

Yeah.

I just think it's like actually getting a little bit of liposuction is less invasive and like dangerous, but I don't know.

I had a good time.

If anyone has any questions, send me a message.

Like I'm so down to talk about it.

And I'll probably do a full video down the line, like in a couple months once like my swelling is like completely gone, just so we can see the full results.

But I know people have been curious and I wanted to talk about it because it's been a really good experience and it leads us into our first story today.

Yeah, that's your full disclosure, right?

My full disclosure.

I had plastic surgery i'm not gonna lie and say i did mewing and that's how i i've been taping my mouth at night like okay

i'm like yeah you can do all those things and it might help but like if you have genetics and that's the way your face is like it is like you could mew till the cows come home yeah and when i mew or whatever that thing is it it bulges on me really it's like opposite effect opposite mewing i've never tried mewing because i'm not good at anything that you have to sort of do every day it's too much.

And then there's that thing people were like ordering that jaw thing that you like chew on all day.

And I'm like, yeah, you're gonna like give yourself some joint issues.

Yeah, there's a lot of, there are a lot of at-home recipes, but yeah, no, I like my surgical recipe.

So this first one is about plastic surgery.

It's coming from r/slash am I the asshole titled, Am I the Asshole for Not Disclosing I Had Plastic Surgery to My Boyfriend?

I, 26 female, have been dating Max, 25 male for four months.

When I was 22, I had a nose job as I broke my nose twice as a kid and it left a large bump.

Then at 23, I had a breast augmentation that bumped me up two cup sizes.

These were lifelong insecurities that I was bullied over and it was really relieving to get them done.

On to the present.

I met Max through a friend and things have been great.

Last night, I was strolling through my social media while on the sofa with him.

I stopped on an old classmate's vacation photo where where she wore a bikini and, frankly, had very obvious implants.

She looks great, happy for her, but you can tell.

Max glanced over at that moment and said, quote, gross.

I asked him what the deal was, and he said, Women who get implants or other surgeries are a huge turn off to most guys, and how men prefer natural over two balloons and how insecure she looks.

I couldn't help but laugh and said, quote, so you're turned off by me?

He got very confused and asked what I meant.

I informed him I had procedures done before.

He kept denying it and saying I was joking until I showed him old photos of me.

He got quiet and left shortly after.

I got a text saying that I should have disclosed this on the first date, how I led him on, and that he needs to reconsider things.

It's the next day.

I haven't heard anything.

I'm bewildered.

Am I the asshole?

First of all, like, I think that this poses an interesting question beyond just their own relationship.

Yeah.

But in the confines of their relationship, first, he is an absolute asshole.

He was not only an asshole to her, but also to this like girl's photo.

If I were looking at any woman's photo and a man, you know, peered over my shoulder and said, ew, gross, clearly insecure, I'd be like, watch your fucking mouth, watch your tone.

Like, who do you think you're talking about?

First of all, that might be my friend, but even if it isn't, like, don't talk about any women like that.

That's gross.

But then, yeah, that's such an interesting,

maybe he should have disclosed on the first date that he has those deal breakers.

Like, I don't know.

Like, I, that's crazy to me.

Also, that he couldn't tell.

Like, she probably thought he knew.

I mean,

I wonder, like, I've never felt an implant breast.

Like, I've never, I'm, like, so curious if you can tell a difference even.

Cause I know, depending on what you do, saline versus silicone, like it can feel different.

Saline feels supernatural.

Like that's what they plug it at least.

So I'm just like so curious.

And it's also like,

I love when I read this story to Justin, I loved his response.

And he's like, if you can touch it, they're real.

Like, he's like, it's just like, it is what it is.

And it's, it's one of those things.

It's like, you were attracted to her.

What does it change?

Yeah.

What does it change for you?

I don't know.

It's not like he asked ever and she lied about it or like she was purposefully keeping this insane secret for, like, they haven't been dating that long.

First of all, like four months.

Four months.

So I think that there are things that maybe just naturally haven't come up.

But I think it's crazy to expect like on date one for someone to be like, okay.

It's very important that I disclose to you.

I have had a rhinoplasty.

I have had a boob job.

I have had like this, like that.

There are so many things that are so much more important when getting to know somebody, in my opinion, of like who they are.

And I don't know.

That's just such, he sounds like an asshole.

Totally.

And I, I do like question this when it's something that doesn't affect the other person, a nose job, not going to affect him.

I don't think a boob job affects him either.

When do you have to disclose or do you ever have to disclose?

It's not like a huge deal to me.

Like, I don't think telling someone that you got a nose job on the first date is a requirement.

Like, that's just one of those things.

Like, it, it doesn't matter at all.

Right.

So I'm like, are there rules?

Obviously, health things, like if you have an STD, like that should be disclosed pretty early on, especially before sleeping together.

But if it's something like this.

Do you even ever have to disclose it?

Yeah.

And I'm trying to think about it from the other gender.

Like if there was a a man and he'd gotten like hair,

like, what's that called?

Oh, hair plugs.

Like, hair plugs.

Yeah.

Like, would it matter if he disclosed that or not?

Like, would you be like,

no, I wouldn't care.

I'd be curious to know because I do think like.

It'd be an interesting conversation to talk to someone about an insecurity that they had their whole life and like that their journey in, you know, making that decision.

Like, I think it could be an interesting conversation due to that.

But in terms of feeling like betrayed or feeling like they've misled me, I would not feel, oh, I don't want to give a spoiler, but

there's like in materialists.

Never mind, never mind.

Did you see materialists?

No, it's on my list.

There's basically, they talk about the surgery where you like can make yourself taller as a man.

Oh my God.

I've heard like horror stories from that.

Yeah, right.

It's like a very dangerous.

Oh, yeah.

I don't know.

But then, wait, do you think celebrities should have to disclose plastic surgery to their followers?

I think if you're a public-facing figure that a lot of people are looking up to as body goals, and if you're creating like a beauty standard and you're using tools that alter and like create something that's not naturally achievable, I think you should.

I think it just helps like set the standard.

Like that's, that's for me.

It's like, I'm, I've had lip filler.

I've had chin filler.

I've had Botox.

I just got my neck chin lift contour thing.

Like, I'm not going to lie about that because I don't want to make it seem like it's anything.

Like, it's also not something I'm ashamed of.

Like, if you want to address your insecurities and use tools or whatever to make yourself feel better, that's cool.

But just don't lie to people to make it seem like you're doing it naturally.

I feel like celebrities especially should.

Like, I don't get why they continue to lie when it's very clear they've had work done.

Yeah, where you can watch these progressive pictures, and clearly the person's gotten a nose job, like

everything.

I do feel weird.

Sometimes those accounts, like, sometimes I think those accounts I don't always feel are coming from the best place.

No, there are certain accounts that will show just like the worst photo ever of somebody, maybe as like a teenager or a preteen, and then be like, clearly they've had work done.

I'm like, maybe, I don't know, like, like contouring can do a lot.

Like, noses can look so different even over time.

Like, I don't know.

Your nose can change after you're pregnant too.

Yeah.

It's not necessarily.

Yeah, that's a fine line because it's like, there's a lot of those accounts that I've been exposing people.

They're just ragging on these people.

And it's like, I don't think she actually got work done.

I think she's overlining her lips and like, right, has just matured in her face.

I think in the perfect world, like, People wouldn't hide that and they'd be clear about that, but then they'd also be clear every time they're using a filter or like face FaceTune or any type of thing.

Like, if Jennifer Lawrence got a boob job, I wouldn't feel like, okay, she needs to like make a video now telling us she got a boob job.

But, like, if someone asked, I guess, in like a normal way that didn't wasn't too invasive, if she went on caller daddy or something, and Alex Cooper was like, hey, have you ever gotten a boob job?

I would imagine she'd be honest about that, hopefully.

Yeah.

It's such a fine line.

Like

feeling entitled to the information about other people's bodies.

Well, and it's, it's really interesting too.

And I think there was like a great documentary on it, but why do we have insecurities?

And like, why do we even compare ourselves to other people?

And like, why are we looking at these models and things and people you see in media as like the standard of beauty?

And then why does that make you feel bad?

And so it's like this vicious cycle.

And so.

If you're a public-facing figure, I think ideally disclose if people ask you if it is something that you've gotten done.

I think like we're beyond lying about it at this point.

Yeah.

Especially if you're an influencer who specifically, like, you're making these makeup videos or something, and all of your comments are like, oh, I'm so jealous of your nose.

I'm so jealous of your jaw.

And like, blah, blah, blah.

Like, if you're seeing that, I feel it would be hard to not be like, wait, guys, like, this is the case.

Like, yeah.

And there's a lot of people that are now like very transparent about it.

Like, Victoria Paris talks about everything she's gotten done.

Yeah.

There's a lot of people that now are like, I've done this, this, this, and this.

Like, I'm not natural.

Like, I'm not a standard.

Yeah.

Like, I've literally gotten all this done.

In a relationship, I don't think you need to, like,

jump out of the gate and disclose everything.

I think over time, you would,

anyways, as you get comfortable with that partner,

as you maybe are like, oh, you know, I'm kind of hitting a 12-year mark.

I'm going to have to get my breasts redone or whatever that looks like.

I think it naturally comes out.

And that's what's happening in this story.

Like you're four months in and plastic surgery has probably come up as a topic for the first time.

Yeah.

Because if he had ever brought up his concerns, clearly then she would have said it.

But like, yeah, they're, they're noticing breast augmentation.

He's saying, I don't like that.

She's saying, I have that.

Like, that's kind of what happens.

It comes up in the world.

And then you have a conversation about it.

I know.

And again, you couldn't tell.

Yeah.

So it.

It's not unnatural looking because you quite literally could not tell.

I think the argument I've seen is like, if you're going to to have children with someone, is it like important to disclose that this is actually the feature that you would be passing down to those children?

Dude, that's so crazy to me though, because it's like, if your kid didn't like their nose, they could get a nose job.

Yeah.

Like, I think that's the same thing about, like, oh, we'll take her swimming on the first date.

Yeah.

It's like,

It's so funny because I've seen videos too where they'll take pictures of people with like very natural makeup on.

And they're like, oh, does this girl have makeup on?

And the guys are always like, no, very natural.

Yeah.

I love that.

It's like, yeah, they don't actually care.

She's got a full beat.

Yeah.

Like, she's got a full face on.

Like,

you don't know.

You don't know natural.

Yeah.

He's clearly the asshole.

She didn't do anything wrong.

I think in a relationship, I would want to know as much about that person as possible and hope that all of those things would come out over time.

But I wouldn't feel slighted or betrayed if it came out later in the relationship or like a conversation happened at any point.

Again, I just think it could be important for understanding the person you're with and like their journey with certain things.

Because if you've had a lifelong insecurity, like that plays a big part into your development.

And I, you know, that's why I would want to talk about it.

Not because I'm like, oh, there's this hidden like secret thing that you've done that you're hiding from me.

Yeah.

You know, I think it's, it is really important to talk about because it's like, it's like, how have you felt?

Who are you?

And also like, depending on the insecurity, it could bleed into how you raise kids.

Yeah.

Like for me, I grew up in a household where like weight was talked about constantly.

And so it's even something that like I've had issues with.

I've had a lot of, you know, body image issues.

And so looking at the language that I heard around weight and, oh, being fat and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Like, I won't even use that word around my kids.

Like, I'm not going to even have that language because it was even about yourself.

Even about myself and from my kids, yeah.

Yeah.

And like, my brother and his wife have done a really good job of that.

Like, they don't talk negatively about their bodies.

And it's kind of like our generation because like weight and diet culture was like so prevalent for our moms and dads too, maybe.

But it's, it's just interesting how it can bleed into the next generation too.

Top comment on this one, not the asshole.

You lucked out that he showed you this side at four months in.

You could have been married before you found out he's this shallow and misogynistic.

Yeah.

And that's true.

Like, I think you made a great point when you were like, if I heard the guy I'm dating talk like this, I'd be like, whoa, who do you think you're talking to?

Because

talking about another woman like that that you don't even know, saying she's gross.

Like, yeah.

It's just, it's so insecure.

Okay, well, yeah, like everyone is a little insecure.

You're insecure about something, dude.

Like, let's be real or else you wouldn't be talking like this.

I know.

I think, like, insecurities are so normal.

It's just, like, how you handle them is like kind of the thing.

Next comment down is from OP.

I agree.

Honestly, if he texts me again saying he's okay to continue, I really don't think I'm interested.

Of course.

Go, OP.

This is such good time.

I love.

when one of your stories is like early on and they're dating and they're like they're not married they don't have children yet there aren't these like strings yet because sometimes we're like oh this sucks you know you know no no attachments here with this one which is very nice next comment down not the asshole his reaction and comment that quote should have disclosed this on the first date makes him childish opi goes yeah that threw me off i don't really think quote oh by the way my boobs are fake is really typical first date talk.

Yeah.

I don't think so either.

Also, I like if you could think of so many other things that you'd be like, ooh, you have to disclose that on the first date, like family health history.

Like, I don't know, you can like think of all these crazy things, but that's not real life.

Like, that would be a crazy conversation to have.

It's super, you'd almost look at it as like, why is she telling me this on the first date?

And he probably would have.

Like, if realistically, if she would have done that, he would have hated that too.

Yeah.

He would have been like, she's shallow.

Why is she telling me about surgery?

And if you seriously have like

that intense of a deal breaker and you feel that strongly about it, maybe you should bring it up at some point and then show people who you are right away.

Like

that should be.

I think you'd do a lot of women a favor if he brings that up on the first date instead.

Tell me your preferences.

Yeah.

Next comment.

Not the asshole.

You shouldn't have to disclose your medical history for someone to date you.

And OP goes, yeah, that's what I thought.

Even though it's mainly cosmetic history, clearly he liked how I look enough to start dating me.

So what's the issue?

Yeah.

Thank you.

Someone responds to that, though, and they go, the issue is he now realizes he's a hypocrite.

Wow.

Yep.

Guess what?

We got some edits on this one.

Ooh.

Feeling like a little bit of an update.

I love that.

Edit.

All right, y'all.

I got a text from him a few minutes ago asking to meet up as he thinks he wants to continue the relationship and wants to talk things over.

After all of these comments and some thinking, I sent back along the lines of that his reaction made me realize he's not the partner I'm looking for, and that I've decided to not continue our relationship.

Awesome.

So, yeah, I'm single now.

Kind of confused if I should mention this to future dates before we're official to weed out any more like him.

How do you even bring this up?

Oh, well, I like me.

I'm content with my natural and unnatural parts, and I'll find someone who doesn't have a huge hang-up on plastic surgery.

Yeah.

I mean, he liked the way she looked and he liked her personality.

It sounds like he just holds this misogynistic ideal about women in this specific way.

And once that clashed, he was like, oh, this kind of hurts my brain.

Like, like, women, plastic surgery, insecure, bad, so embarrassing, so weird looking.

Like, I can't, like,

can't put those two things together.

Don't make sense.

And I'm so glad that she's left him.

That's awesome.

You know, we do have another edit.

He finally replied to to my text:

I was hopeful we could start over on an honest beginning, but I guess only one of us is mature enough to look past each other's shortcomings in the relationship.

Shortcomings?

Oh my God.

I'm glad you revealed this about yourself before I got too involved.

Goodbye.

Good luck finding someone because no real man would respect someone.

who can't even respect their own body.

Sir, you just said you wanted to continue things and start over.

I hate when people do that.

I really like you.

I want to continue.

Oh, you don't like me?

Oh, well, I never liked you anyways.

And no one ever, no one who respected himself actually ever would like you.

No one would ever touch you.

You're not doubling a 10-foot pole.

My ex-girlfriend.

Oh, my God.

You liked me.

What you thought I was hot.

Yeah.

You like fake boobs.

Just get over it.

Yeah.

Like, what mental gymnastics are

you doing?

No, yeah, she got out

like scot-free.

Like, that's amazing.

I'm so happy for her.

Thank God.

I guess only one of us is mature enough to look past each other's shortcomings.

Your shortcoming being a freak, her shortcoming, having plastic surgery that you liked.

Yeah.

Shortcomings.

No, I would probably crash out actually, though, if someone said that to me.

I am just like beyond.

I just, this is so crazy.

And it's not,

it's not a big deal.

Like,

yeah.

I mean, what if she wanted a mommy makeover down the road?

Like, what?

You're not going to let her?

You're going to be disgusted by it.

Like,

let people live.

Yeah.

I just, I think it's goofy.

And it's like, you don't have to encourage it if you're not.

for it or if you think it's risky or whatever but like yeah you also can't control people and you can't even say i'm not attracted to people with plastic surgery because you are Yeah, that's just not true.

So get off this weird little soapbox where you think you're better than people.

And like, oh, a real man's not going to respect someone who doesn't respect their own body.

Yeah.

You're conflating a lot of stuff.

You drew a very good parallel earlier with like the whole makeup thing of it's like, no, you actually do like makeup on women.

You just like to think of yourself as someone who likes more natural women.

And like, I don't know.

It's almost this morally superior thing.

Yeah, like a morally superior thing.

And also trying to like control what women do and like be like, oh, these are the ones who deserve respect.

But it's like, that's just not even your own preference, actually.

Like, you just don't know shit about fuck.

I like that.

You don't know shit about fuck.

And that's this dude.

This post is a little vintage, three years old now at this.

point in time.

And no other updates after that.

Wow.

Well, I'm thrilled with the last one that we got.

I think it's great.

I'm just taking a peek to see if there's any other things.

I think a good point, too, that I see in one of OP's comments is: like, my nose was fine naturally.

It looked bad because I broke it.

And, like, regardless of what reason you get a nose job for, it could be cosmetic.

It could be because you had a deviated septum.

It could be because you broke it.

Like, it doesn't matter.

It's a choice you make.

And if you like the way you look, that's what matters.

Yeah.

Freak.

He's a freak.

It's not his choice.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to that.

It's not his body.

It's not his choice.

Yeah.

Okay, moving along.

So this one is coming from Am I the Asshole as well.

It is two months old, titled, Am I the Asshole for Not Disclosing That I Am Not Christian?

To preface this, I do commissioned artwork and do not discriminate against any subject unless it's racist, homophobic, otherwise hateful, or sexually disturbing.

I did a commissioned art piece with Christian iconography, a beautiful ornate cross, a saint, and scripture in calligraphy.

The client was happy with my work, paid me, and then asked me what my favorite scripture was.

I was honest and just said, quote, oh, I don't really have one because I'm not a Christian and wouldn't really know which ones I'd like.

He became upset and told me that he felt lied to because I have posted artwork of Christian subjects before.

And he assumed I would be Christian.

He said the art doesn't hold the same spiritual value because it wasn't made with, quote, faithful intention.

I was kind of unsure of what to say.

I said, quote, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I do artwork for everyone.

And I am open to doing Christian artwork because it's for the client, not me.

Should I be disclosing if I don't share a certain faith when commissioned to do artwork for it?

Am I the asshole?

No, this reminds me of like the conversation about the first date with plastic surgery of it would feel weird for someone to say that to me.

If I had a religion and I hired an artist to paint something and they were like, by the way, like, I don't really fuck with that, but I'm happy to do it for you.

You know, like, I, like, that feels weirder to me.

I know, because you'd be like, whoa, this is kind of a spiel when I'm just like, hey, can you make a picture of a horse?

Right.

Like, I didn't ask you your personal opinion on the matter.

No.

And it's also like, I don't think it matters if you're getting a product that you like.

This is what's so crazy to me, too, with like all the bakery drama.

And I don't know why it's fucking bakeries, but all these bakeries that are like, I'm not going to make a cake for a gay couple.

Yeah.

Why are people so fucking weird?

I don't know.

This is interest.

This is sort of like the inverse of the gay cake.

Drama

is kind of the exact opposite.

Yeah.

I, I, there's a part of me that's like, okay, if I were marrying a woman and the cake person I hired were homophobic, I guess I'd want to know because then I wouldn't give that person money.

Yeah.

But at the same time, if I, if I don't know and I never know and I have a lovely time and the cake is beautiful and I go on my merry way, like, that's okay as well, you know?

I don't know.

I'm not religious anymore.

So it's hard to relate to this.

I could understand, I guess, a tiny bit being like, there would be more meaning if this were painted by someone who shared the faith that they're painting.

Sure.

But you can't get mad.

Like that, that's not the expectation here.

You're hiring an artist for a job.

They did a beautiful job.

It means what it means to you.

That.

And that's what counts.

Yeah.

And I feel like if you're the one.

that you have a preference, right?

Like you want your art created by someone who shares the faith with you.

You should go out and you should ensure that.

You could have asked that artist up front.

You could have gone and found a nun who does art.

Yeah.

And like that is even more magical and spiritual for you to have the nun make your painting.

Yeah.

Put out like an inquiry through your church.

Put a little flyer up at your church.

Do something like that.

If you want that kind of meaning on what you're commissioning, then that could be lovely, but just make sure you're the one who's taking care of that.

If I want, you know, to buy from a women-owned business, I can do my own research and find a woman-owned business.

Like that is on the person hiring the other person.

If you're getting hired for a job, you're just doing the job.

Yeah.

You know, that's how I feel too.

I think that's like the best way to put it.

Like if you have those preferences, you should go out and like ensure that and ask the questions up front.

Yeah.

Almost like the same with the plastic surgery.

Like if the guy would have been like, hey, I have these hard preferences.

Like I don't want to date anyone with a breast augmentation.

Then it's like, oh, well, I'm out then.

Like, it was great to meet you.

Bye.

Yeah.

Like, I guess if you have these strong preferences and guidelines, like you should be disclosing that versus putting the blame on the other people.

I think that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah.

Top comment on this one, not the asshole.

You don't discriminate, but apparently they do.

Laughing my ass off.

OP responds, okay, this made me laugh a little bit.

Thank you.

Next comment down, it's It's true though.

If you wanted an artist creating it with faithful intentions, he should have said so during negotiations.

I'm baptized and used to be quite active in the church.

However, I'm an atheist and might look Christian to others, but I'm not.

If I made something like this, it wouldn't have been with faithful intentions either.

That's a very specific intention.

You can't just assume someone will fulfill without speaking up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

If you want holy water, you gotta find a priest.

You know, you can't just be buying water from the farmer's market and getting mad that it's not holy.

I don't know if that.

How do you even guarantee you're getting holy water?

Someone could just bottle it up.

Yeah, I don't know.

It's the same with the bathwater.

All these weirdos buying people's bathwater.

Yeah.

And again, it's like

it's not a bad thing to have a preference and to be like, I would really like to find somebody who shares this same value with me to create this thing for me.

That's okay.

Like, that's not this horrible feeling to have.

But then it's on you to find somebody who shares that.

And then you can't get mad when you've already paid someone and they've already done the work.

And then, uh-oh, like, now you find that out because you just asked, what's your favorite scripture?

Like, uh-oh.

I know.

I'd be like, John 3:16.

Isn't that the one like Tim Tebow put on every God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, so that whoever believed in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life?

Where the sticks with you, huh?

Yes.

I went to like church camp and you win points for your cabin if you memorize the most verses.

So

there's memories there.

The only thing I like know is like this bedtime prayer that like even though I'm like not really religious now, it's it's like a pavlov.

Like if I remember,

I have to say it.

Otherwise like I can't fall asleep.

Wow.

Now I write.

Now I lay me down to sleep.

Whatever.

I pray to God my soul to keep.

She just watched me through the night until I wake in morning light.

I've heard a lot of variations of that same lullaby, by the way.

I just like, I am just so, I don't know.

And that's like.

Because the other version I know is

and if I die before I wake, I pray to God my soul to take.

Yeah, no, I don't say that version.

I knew that version, and that felt a little dark for me because it was like almost like a manifestation.

I'm like, I'm not going there.

Keep me down here.

All right, we're on his side again.

Not

disclosing.

Okay, well, let's see if I can give us one where disclose is needed.

Yeah, that's important because there are times, like

there are times we should be disclosing things.

Look at your mischievous grip.

I know.

I have so many saved for this theme, you guys.

So there will be a Patreon episode with similar vibes in August as well.

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Okay, this is coming from Am I the Asshole?

Again, just an Am I the Asshole Day, apparently.

And it is titled, Am I the Asshole?

If I report the couples therapist that married my my ex-boyfriend a year after our sessions with her?

Oh wait, I literally have a friend who went to a couples therapist with her husband and the therapist like got a crush on my friend's husband but they like let like he wasn't about it but yeah oh my god this could have been them yeah or it was like their marriage counselor like there's like something for before the marriage like i don't know anyway yeah

I wonder if this is a really common thing.

Chime in, you guys.

Yeah.

In 2017, I, female 25, saw a couples therapist with my then-boyfriend, male 36.

After three sessions with her, I refused to return due to her blatant, flirtatious behavior and extremely judgmental attitude towards me, which my ex-boyfriend called me delusional for pointing out.

She had told me that I seemed too immature, not ready for therapy or a serious relationship.

The whole thing was focused on my ex-boyfriend and his complaints about me.

She never asked about my feelings or perspective in the relationship.

We broke up about two months after the sessions, but I stayed living with my ex-boyfriend until November.

Once I moved out, I had to return to our old apartment to get mail.

This was in December.

And that was the first time I saw the therapist with my ex.

They happened to be getting ready to go out on his motorcycle and were both wearing full-face motorcycle helmets.

But I knew from her body type and hair that it was her, along with my instincts, which suspected something was going on the whole time.

But nevertheless, I moved on with my life.

I just found out yesterday my ex got married due to a friend telling me about a photo he posted on Facebook.

The photo was of him and my ex-therapist celebrating their one-year anniversary.

I found her Facebook with the name change, and sure enough, they got married September of 2018 or earlier.

That's just when she posted the wedding photos.

This was less than a year after the breakup with me and my ex, and barely over a year after our sessions with her ended.

I'm considering filing a complaint with the American Counseling Association.

My friends and mental health counselors I know say I have enough evidence.

I am not upset that my ex moved on.

So have I.

I thank the universe every day that I am no longer with that narcissist.

However, I feel deeply disturbed to find out he married our therapist, especially remembering all the harmful stuff she said to me in the sessions, which, to be honest, really messed with my head.

I fear of coming off as a bitter ex.

Am I the asshole?

This is crazy.

Woo!

Wait, there are two situations here, like possibilities.

Like, I know.

Was he seeing the therapist before he brought

it to her?

Yeah.

Or did it happen like over the course of the sessions?

Because

to tell a client, like, you aren't mature enough for therapy,

like, that's why you go to therapy.

That is, there was already some like animosity there.

Diabolic.

Well, it's one thing to, you know, develop a crush on somebody and to maybe see them in a little bit more of a golden light.

But then to have such negativity toward the current girlfriend, I would more so be like, ooh, I feel guilty about feeling this way if I'm developing a crush, which is why it leads me more to feel like something was already going on.

I'm very curious.

And his defending of the therapist too kind of points to that direction.

Yeah.

Because after three sessions, why are you defending this stranger versus me, your partner, who you're seemingly trying to work on things with?

Right.

And how would this therapist have fallen for him so quickly in three sessions, but also have been acting like this kind of from the first one.

Like, is he really that handsome?

I don't know about that.

I know.

How do you meet someone after that short amount of time?

And like, already have such a three sessions, an hour each.

And you're like, I'm going to target her because I want him for myself.

Yeah.

And it happened in what it sounds like all the sessions.

Yeah.

Especially the last two.

So it's like, you met him, you had 60 minutes with this guy.

And then we're like, I'm going to go for him.

He's mine.

Mine.

That's my king.

Yeah.

I

don't think that there would be anything wrong with reporting this because I do feel that one of like the key foundations of being a therapist would be like separating your own personal emotions from the help that you give other people and the advice that you give them.

And like, I mean, you're leading people down roads and they're trusting that you are a professional and you know what you're doing.

And like that, that can put people in very dangerous situations to be like oh no he's doing amazing and like you actually have things you need to be like like she's still questioning herself years later because it's like i went to a professional and this is what they told me i know

i'm very curious what the timeline is yeah i'm very curious also the requirements for her license and dating patients afterwards

i know for me as an ot

You had to wait six months after seeing a patient and then you could legally date them.

Okay.

I think mental health providers, it's different.

It might be longer.

If you're a mental health provider out there, please chime in in the comments.

I'm just Googling to see

what I can find online.

On some of the sources, I'm seeing mental health professionals generally cannot date current patients due to ethical and legal guidelines that protect patient well-being.

After therapy ends, there is a waiting period before a therapist can date a former patient, which varies, but is typically at least two to five years.

Wait, this two to five years is like a really long time.

But I understand it because, like, there is such a power dynamic as well.

I mean, it's like dating your boss, but maybe even more, like more of a power dynamic between a therapist.

And yeah, I,

I, anyone can fall in love.

So, like, that's tough.

Like, people, wait, this happened when Married at First Sight.

One of the experts who like matches up the couples ended up marrying one of the people that they messed up.

One of the guys that they messed up just got the chills.

It was so dry.

I think it was in one of the earlier seasons, too.

Oh, but she was like removed from the show because of it.

Wow.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I'm on Good Rx,

and apparently varies by state, therapist license, all of that jazz.

Per the American Psychological Association, a psychologist can't date a patient for at least two years, and the ACA has a five-year waiting period after therapy has ended.

And so OP wrote in about a complaint with the American Counseling Association, so ACA.

So five years then, based on what I'm seeing from a quick Google.

Do we know if it's different if like they only had one session and they like met and they were like, oh, actually, I don't know if I should see you as a therapist?

I wonder.

I don't.

think that would matter.

Like, I feel like patient is patient.

Yeah.

Um, the good RX

like article on this whole thing does say this, though.

Even then, a therapist must demonstrate that the relationship is not exploitative to avoid legal issues.

Yeah, I mean, I think that that's like an important law to have in place because, again, that's so,

I mean, it's almost like grooming could take place in that scenario because you are going to this person.

Their word is sort of like up to heaven to you.

And you really trust them and you like trust them with your with your mind i know this is apparently a common issue this whole article is titled can you date your therapist no and here's why and essentially it's just like it's normal to develop intimate feelings for your therapist yeah but a therapist dating their client is unethical and in many states against the law and i think exactly as you said like you're in this vulnerable position.

They could be telling you things almost like grooming.

Like it could be that like subconscious coercion to where you think you're getting the help you need, but it's actually them manipulating you.

Which like,

how in what ethical world could you ever date a patient that like you can't like kind of as this thing says, like you really shouldn't.

And it's so understandable to develop a crush because it's like you become so intimate with this person.

You're sharing so much of yourself with them.

Like you're, you're bare to them about all these things that you maybe are scared to talk about with anybody else.

Yeah.

So, you know, it's not on the patient to like, like it's, they've done something wrong.

If they develop feelings for their therapist, it has to be on the therapist to draw that line.

I agree.

That's like one thing.

I feel like if things are really bad, you should disclose.

That's that one Facebook page.

Like, are we dating the same guy?

I know like there's some issues with it a little bit.

Yeah, I think about that recently.

Yeah.

But like, if there's someone you go on a date with that is truly just horrendous and scary, like you should disclose that.

Like this, you should absolutely disclose.

Yeah.

Like there are both elements of it of like her being a bad therapist because those feelings got confused and like kind of messing with this girl.

But then there's also like, is this an okay dynamic between him and her?

And then if she actually was dating him before, then that's a different ethical issue.

Then it's like abusing your power in a completely different way.

Yeah.

No, I definitely think she needs to report.

100%.

Disclose.

Don't disclose that.

Disclose.

So there is a comment here.

Hi, I'm a therapist.

All caps.

Please report her.

Wow.

Her behavior is ridiculously unethical, and who knows what else she has done or if she even should be allowed to practice.

Not the asshole times a million.

Edit.

I gotta say, I'm loving this veritable Greek chorus of therapists showing up to chant, report her, report her.

OP, if you see this, please don't feel like you're obligated to report her.

You do what you need to do to find peace and closure.

All right.

But that's true.

Like, I think someone who's willing to do this to a client, a patient, also could be messing with people

just to mess with people and like assert control or power.

Yeah.

Which is scary.

It's not safe to have someone in such a position of like influence over people.

Yeah.

Because she might not want to to steal the next man,

but she could still like target someone in such a bad way.

And someone who is vulnerable, like even OP said, like, this really messed with my head.

So, someone who isn't abiding by their ethical code and moral guidelines as a provider, which is so important, shouldn't provide.

Disclose.

Wow.

That's crazy.

I wish we knew, though.

I wish we knew if they just somehow fell in love over those sessions or if this was before.

I wonder like which is worse.

I almost feel like the conspiring would be worse of like, oh, we're going to make her feel crazy.

Dude,

if they were talking before and planned that and that was like, oh, I don't want to break up with her.

Well, I'll end it for you.

Right.

And it's like.

they go to therapy then in hopes of like oh that's so ooh that's the worst that's the worst scenario

so we do have a little bit of an update you're lying are you?

Is it Christmas?

Like, wait, what the hell?

Wow.

Thank you, everyone, for your responses.

I realize that as the ex, it's pretty much impossible for it to not seem like I'm jealous, petty bitter, whatever you want to say.

However, it is also impossible to have sat in those sessions and then see your therapist and ex get married and have zero feelings about it, regardless of having moved on.

Please give me a break.

I'm human.

Anyways, I've made my decision.

I'm not going to participate in this post anymore, but I sincerely thank those of you that made meaningful contributions.

So, one of my friends has basically taken it upon herself to investigate the therapist.

I swear she should be in the FBI at LOL.

That's so important.

Okay, I love that.

She found out that this is the third last name that this woman has practiced psychotherapy with.

Under the first last name in 2014, she was charged with a DUI with property damage.

She also comes up on health grades with five one-star reviews and an overall three-star rating.

Essentially, what this new information does for me is confirm that she has been a shitty human being with shitty morals for quite some time.

There's no way this is the first time she has caused undue harm to a client.

Therefore, I can say with certainty that

I am reporting.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Wait, everything's kind of like going our way this episode.

Like the girl left that guy.

She's reporting this therapist.

They're letting us know about these things.

This is awesome.

Unless we're like really off with our takes.

And then like you guys are going to have to let us know because, you know, it takes a village sometimes.

No, and also

love that FBI friend.

Like community is so important.

Dude, the people that can sleuth, like I have a friend that can like sleuth like this and

has like multiple times like found out that like a guy she

met and was like going on dates with like had a secret girlfriend and like well that should be disclosed i'm

absolutely i just like i don't understand how people have the time like i barely have enough time to like have friends and like get out of my house and like yeah how do people have time to date multiple multiple people i don't even know even in a casual sense that's not something i've ever been good at doing no like if you're early on and not exclusive like yeah go on a couple dates a week with different people oh yeah you absolutely can i'm just saying i i have never been able to like handle that.

It takes stamina for sure.

But if you're exclusive and you're like seeing the same person a couple times a week.

Yeah.

How?

Tinder swindler.

That was crazy.

What was that one?

That was the guy who was like on a Netflix show and he was like swindling money from all these women, but he had such intense relationships with them.

Oh my God.

And he was like, I work for like the FBI.

Dude, that's like the seniors and like even people my mom's age that are like, oh my God, Brad Pitt messaged me.

He needs 5,000.

And I'm like, Brad Pitt's not messaging you.

Brad Pitt's not real.

He never was.

No.

Like, Zendaya does not need 2,000 for a dress.

Like,

she's got law.

Even when I was in high school, there was a lot more success with catfishing at that time.

I definitely, I had a catfish a cat.

I catfished one of my boyfriends into cheating on me with her just to prove it.

Mikaya!

Wow, we're disclosing all sorts of things today.

I was like, you know what?

I don't think he's that loyal to me.

Who did you, whose pictures did you steal?

Some like internet girl.

I was like 16.

So this is why you have people that use your pictures and catfish others now.

This is the karma that you got.

This is the karma.

But I just like, well, it was, I didn't, I only like had a profile picture for her.

So I only had like a profile picture and I was like, oh my God, like, you're so cute.

And he was like, wait, you're so cute.

And I was like,

and, and then I, you're funny.

I think I didn't break up with him.

I think he was like, oh no, like, my friends and I just like saw that, and we knew it was so obviously fake, and we thought it'd be funny to like entertain it.

And I was like, fuck, I, like, I, I revealed myself too soon.

Shoot,

shoot, whatever.

Who among us hasn't?

That's.

I've never catfished anyone.

No.

Never.

Aw,

unless you call whitening my teeth in photos, catfish.

To be fair, like, the catfishing only lasted like five messages.

Oh.

Well,

okay.

You were 16?

Probably like around that.

Yeah.

Okay.

I'll give you a break.

I'll give you a break.

I'd do it again.

Okay.

We do have one final comment from OP.

Ooh.

Definitely a huge thank you to all the therapists showing up to support me.

And also thank you for adding that last bit.

I just updated the post.

With the new information I have about her character, I'm definitely reporting.

This woman should not be a therapist.

I hope that she really did find her true love for my ex and that it will be worth it for her.

Really, I do, but she should not be trusted by another vulnerable person ever again.

I do feel like having all those therapists comment that must have been really validating for OP and like help them feel like, okay, this is the right choice.

I know it would help me.

Yeah.

Especially because I think some people, by the sounds of her first edit, came in like

you're just

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Like, I would would then start to feel like, wow, I'm way off base here.

Like, and it's a big thing to like report somebody.

Like, I, I, it would take a lot, like, even giving someone a bad review on Google, like, I feel very guilty about doing that and would only do it under, like, this was a really, really bad situation bordering dangerous.

Yeah.

You know, like, I, I think it's normal to feel very guilty and like nervous about doing that.

But then, yeah, if it's like endangering the safety of others and like, this is somebody who really shouldn't be in this position of power, Like

sometimes that that's what needs to be done.

I think so.

This feels totally justifiable.

Yeah, totally justifiable.

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This next one is coming from Am I the Asshole, two months old, titled, Am I the Asshole for Using My Friend's Nail Clippers and Kind of Screwing Things Up with His Girlfriend?

Take me on this journey.

It is a journey, my friends.

So, this got way more dramatic than I expected.

And now I'm not sure if I actually did something wrong or if this is just completely blown out of proportion.

I, 30 male, was house sitting for my friend Tom, 32 male, for a few days while he and his girlfriend were out of town visiting her family.

It wasn't a huge deal.

I've done it before.

I was feeding his cat, watering his plants, bringing in his mail.

He told me I could crash there if I wanted to, and to to help myself to whatever.

On the second morning I was there, I noticed I had a nasty split nail on my thumb, like one of those deep ones that keeps snagging on stuff.

Of course, I didn't pack my own nail clippers, and I didn't want to leave it, so I figured I would just use his.

Not a huge deal, right?

I've known the guy for 10 years.

We've literally shared food and beers and stuff.

It's not like I used his toothbrush.

So I found the clippers in his bathroom drawer, used them once, once, just on my thumb, not like I went on a foot trimming spree, ran them under hot water, wiped them off, and put them back where I thought they went.

Anyways, a couple of days after he gets back, he texts me, quote, Hey, did you use my nail clippers?

I said, yeah, sorry, had a split nail, cleaned them after, figured it was fine.

He says, quote, okay.

But then, a little later, he calls me and goes, quote,

So

now there's kind of a problem.

What?

Turns out his girlfriend noticed they weren't where she left them.

Question mark, question mark, question mark, and asked if he used them.

He hadn't, but instead of just saying it was me, he says he didn't know who used them, which now makes it sound like someone broke in or snooped around the bathroom while they were gone.

She's apparently super germ conscious, and now she doesn't want to stay over until the bathroom has been deep cleaned.

She's creeped out.

I told him, dude, just tell her it was me.

It's not like I was going through her stuff.

I used one clipper, cleaned it, and left.

He says no, because now he's already lied, and if he comes clean, it'll be a whole thing.

And she'll think he's gross for not caring that someone used them.

So now I'm weirdly trapped in this lie he made up, even though I offered to tell her myself.

I get that I didn't ask at first, but I genuinely didn't think nail clippers were that personal.

I didn't touch anything else, didn't damage them, didn't even mention it because I figured it was a non-issue.

But now, apparently, I've quote violated trust.

And there's this whole narrative that I disrespected their space, and now she's mad at him, and everything's tense.

Am I the asshole for using the clippers or for pushing him to just tell her the truth?

I feel like this all went way off the rails over something super minor.

I'm so confused about this.

I mean, first of all, having a brain where you would even notice that the nail clippers are in a slightly different place from where you left them, I can't imagine being that like organized in my head.

I wish I was that organized.

That's like amazing.

But did she not know that he was house sitting at all?

And also, why is it like a lot?

So this guy was like, I don't know who used them.

Why would it all lie to be like, oh, I found out who used them?

That's what I'm like, dude.

I'm so confused about this.

Why are you making your own issue?

Like, this is a non-issue.

You're making it an issue by just not communicating.

And wouldn't like, wouldn't she know someone was house sitting?

And maybe that would be the first assumption.

So she thinks someone broke in and used the nail clippers.

And used the nail clippers.

And nothing else is missing.

So

I like,

she's a germaphobe.

I wonder if she, like...

genuinely has like contamination OCD.

Yeah, which is really bad.

And like, that's difficult.

That's tough to work through.

To work through.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, especially if you actually think someone broke into your house.

But like, didn't take anything.

That's just used the nail clippers.

I mean, you never know why someone might be breaking.

Maybe they were canvassing.

That is true.

And I've had a couple cases on clues where the serial killers would like break in before, or like that was the start of their stuff.

And they would like ransack houses and like.

Eat people's ice cream and then like not steal anything.

Everyone who's listening is going to start getting so paranoid about things being in like a slightly different place.

They're like, I'm so sorry.

Did I eat all my ice cream?

I know.

Yeah, I'm just, this seems like a very easily fixed communication issue, which is why I'm so confused by this.

Like, why does he think she would be mad at him being like, oh, it was my friend?

Sorry.

I don't, that's what I'm confused about too, because I think the initial answer, like, oh, I don't know.

It slips your brain.

Yeah.

That's not a lie.

But then it's like, oh, you, you ask your buddy.

He did use them.

You say, hey, babe, actually, I I figured it out.

It was just Tom.

I asked him since, you know, he was cat sitting for us.

And Tom used them.

Instead of like letting her think someone broke into the house.

Way worse.

Way worse.

If you're like putting the two on a scale, like I'd rather someone use my nail clippers versus someone broke in and went through our stuff.

Absolutely.

And that's the only thing he used.

At first, I was like, why is he using their nail clippers?

But split, like split nail, absolutely.

I know.

I mean, you see that come in.

You got to get ahead of it.

Something bad could happen.

I just, I felt it too.

When he was like, you know, it snags on stuff.

I'm like, oh, yeah.

No.

Quick fix.

Quick fix.

I am curious if you think if you're house sitting for someone and like you do something, do you have to disclose like everything?

Like, hey, Michaela, I actually, I used your can opener and then I needed a Q-tip.

So I took a Q-tip and then

I did wipe my ass.

So you are a little lower on toilet paper now.

I would never expect any of that.

Maybe there are people with different opinions on nail clippers though.

I don't know.

I personally don't care because my fingernails are generally quite clean.

And like, I don't think

you could also just soak your clippers in some alcohol.

Yeah, I know.

I don't think I would.

If I ate someone's food, I might be like, oh, by the way, like, you might need to refill the Cheez-Its because a hurricane came.

But,

but, yeah, no, I don't think that you need to disclose stuff like that.

I think if you have someone that's coming into your house to do you a favor, like watch your pet water your plants like i think they can have a couple beverages and i would probably add some snacks i would probably be like hey is it okay if i use this

but again i would

i wouldn't feel offended by someone doing it i know well especially when the guy i just like looked up and read too his friend did tell him like you could crash there if you wanted and to help yourself to whatever.

Yeah, if someone's sleeping over at your house, like I generally prepare a lot of things for guests, but then it's also also like, and anything else that I have forgotten to specifically provide you with, like, feel free to ask or like use whatever food's in the kitchen, use whatever tools, use anything.

Yeah.

You know?

This is so weird.

I don't know why people are so scared to have like basic conversations with their partners.

Yeah.

Because also on the flip side, like if I were her, I'd be annoyed that my partner's lying to me over something so silly.

Yeah, no, and then making me spiral more.

How are we going to handle big conversations?

Literally.

Very weird.

Are people in the comments also confused about why he won't just say this?

Because I need, like, I feel like I'm missing something almost.

So, the top comment on this one: Tom put himself in this situation by lying, and his girlfriend is super weird for wanting the entire bathroom deep cleaned over a pair of fucking clippers.

She obviously doesn't know you stayed there because, gasp, you might have sat on the toilet and took a shower and maybe even used a towel.

Colin has Matt, not the asshole.

Okay, so is the lie actually that

he doesn't want to tell his girlfriend a friend stayed there because of her contamination anxiety?

Which is kind of what the next comment in response to that one says.

Okay.

Right?

Like, it sounds like there must be a bigger lie Tom is covering up.

Yeah.

But then who did you think was taking care of your cat and your plants?

Right.

Right.

Maybe she thought that he hired someone and they weren't using any of like staying there or whatever.

But I would just be like yeah we have to have a conversation about this like i needed someone to watch the cats my friend was willing to do it for free as a favor to me he probably used some stuff but i know you struggle with contamination anxiety so let's have some cleaners come like that's fine and this is something we kind of see a lot in these reddit stories where like People lie about the smallest things.

And it's like, if you're willing to lie about the small things, how can I trust you with big things?

Yeah.

You shouldn't have to disclose nail clipper use and it shouldn't be a big deal.

And she's coming from a place of like probably does have OCD or something.

Yeah.

Like severe germaphobe.

And that's, you know, that's tough.

That's a battle she has to work with.

But like, you don't need to make it worse by lying.

Oh my God.

Wait.

Yeah.

I feel that her anxiety would get so much worse now finding out that like actually he does have people come to the house, but like doesn't just tell her that that's the case.

Yeah, because then she could probably set boundaries and be like, okay, they can come and stay and take care of the cat and the plants, but can they stay out of our room?

But now she's probably like, oh, I need to clean everything before I use it because he's not going to tell me if someone came to the house.

And she doesn't know what got touched.

Yeah.

So if the nail clippers got touched, everything else probably got touched.

Yeah.

Everything.

So it's like you're making it worse by not just being an adult.

Yeah.

It's so weird.

People are fully convinced that Tom is lying about having people stay there and stuff like that.

I'm going to go look at the account, see if we ever get any updates from OP.

No updates, only one comment.

It is a newer relationship, so I've only met her a handful of times.

That's why I wanted to just tell the truth because I'd hate to mess something up with Tom.

So she doesn't live there.

It doesn't sound like it.

Okay.

If it's newer, I would assume no, if it's newer.

I just think

this is something that having a conversation and having clear communication would be so beneficial for.

Like her being, being very clear about her boundaries of like, hey, I know this isn't typical, but this is something I've struggled with my whole life.

And like, I'm trying to get better about it.

And it hasn't gotten better.

But, you know, if you have other people in the bathroom, like, could you let me know?

And I'll just like clean it before I use it or like things like that.

Like, there has to be working together in order for this to work.

And he doesn't seem willing to do that.

No, no.

But no, you don't need to disclose.

You don't need to disclose on that one.

But this next one, we'll see.

We'll see.

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Okay, I'm ready for your story now.

Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to share this with you for the first time ever.

Okay, this is coming from a different place.

It's r/slash relationship advice, and it's 31 days old.

Okay.

Not too new, not too old.

I like it.

Okay, how do I tell my friend that he'll never date an influencer-like girl?

Hi, everyone.

This is a sensitive topic, and I want to approach it as respectfully and compassionately as possible.

I, 27 male, have a friend, also 27 male, whom I've known since our freshman year of college.

He's never really dated, at least not that I'm aware of, and he never seemed particularly interested in pursuing anyone seriously.

He'd occasionally mention girls, but it was always in a vague or surface-level way.

Two years ago, I broke up with my long-term girlfriend and re-entered the dating world.

That's been a whole journey of its own, but that's another story.

Since then, he started talking more about dating and women.

I think he now feels like we're in the same boat, and honestly, I'm glad he's opening up more.

Here's where I'm struggling.

My friend is an amazing person.

Funny, smart, thoughtful, a great cook, and he has a solid job.

But on a purely superficial level, he's not conventionally attractive.

Some people might even consider him ugly.

When we were younger, that kind of thing might have mattered more.

But now that I'm dating again, I've realized how much broader and more complex attraction can be at our age there are so many different kinds of beauty and what i find attractive has definitely evolved since i was 18.

unfortunately my friend doesn't seem to see it that way he only seems interested in women who look like instagram influencers very stereotypically hot and being brutally honest those types of women are typically looking for guys who match their aesthetic and he just doesn't fit that mold it's starting to really hurt his self-esteem.

Not dating is making him feel like he's worthless.

I've tried to gently steer him toward more realistic and fulfilling possibilities.

For example, a friend of a friend often compliments his cooking.

I suggested he ask her over for a homemade dinner sometime and his response was, she's ugly.

That really bothered me.

At our age, I feel like we should be past this superficial mindset and actually see people for who they are.

I don't want to shame him or be cruel, but I also don't want to sit back and watch him spiral because he's chasing an ideal that's not going to happen.

He's not going to date or hook up with supermodel-type women.

That's just reality, and it's okay.

There's someone out there for him, someone who will love him for who he is, but he's blocking those possibilities because of his narrow idea of what's attractive.

How can I talk to him about this without sounding condescending or mean?

I want to help him see his own worth without reinforcing unrealistic standards.

Any advice would be appreciated.

This really tough.

It seems like OP is coming from such a good place.

I know.

At first, I was like, damn, you're just calling your friend ugly like that.

Which I still think.

I'm like, you in the same breath are saying, like, everyone is beautiful in their own way, but then you're still being like, but he's ugly.

Right.

Yeah.

I'm just like, ugh.

I think you can just like keep trying to be like, well, why don't you give so-and-so a shot?

Like, why don't you open your mind a bit more?

Like, you never know who who you could end up really liking or falling in love with.

Like, give it a shot.

But other than that, let them find out the hard way.

I think this is a very tough position to be in.

I don't know if

it would be right to disclose.

Also, like, people

can date anybody.

There are some

very famous women, and I don't want to shame any specific people.

So I'm not going to name exactly who those women are and who they're dating, but it makes one stop and think.

Yeah.

There's like, like it technically could

happen for him.

I think the reason he's gotten to this point is just that like he isn't dating anyone and it's hurting his self-esteem that he's been single for so long, but he also won't budge on this.

Like they have, but the most important thing is them looking this very specific way.

Yeah.

Which is interesting.

I mean, everyone's entitled to their attraction preferences.

Right.

I think you could maybe give a little tough love.

I wouldn't say like you'll never end up dating an influencer type model.

Like, yeah.

Cause never say never, like, never say never, really.

But I think you could be like, hey, you know what?

Like, I think you're being a little closed-minded.

Yeah.

Clearly, you're unhappy being single.

And like, something's got to give.

So why don't you consider some other people?

Maybe branch out.

You never know who you're going to end up liking.

Like,

get some practice dating at the very least.

Yeah.

Like, come on.

and i i mean

i know this is the case for women especially like attraction changes so much over time and like the more you get to know somebody the more attractive they become and the more that you know about them so maybe i would approach it from that angle of like you know there are people that like I've met and maybe upon my first meeting with them, it was like, oh, this is just friends vibes.

But then like something about them over time really grew on me.

And I think you've got too narrow of an expectation right now.

Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

Your expectations are too narrow.

Cast your net a little wider.

Otherwise you're not going to see all the fish in the pond.

Yeah.

So not disclose,

but maybe like, yeah, find ways around.

Encourage some expansion of the horizon.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that would be good.

I mean, and at the end of the day, like you can say this and then he can choose to take the advice or not.

Right.

And then he'll be alone.

Probably won't.

And that sucks.

And then you just got to let him, let him do his thing.

And like, I, I know I have had like conversations with friends where like they kind of continue to have the same problem.

And it's like, you can only give your advice so much.

And if they take it, yay.

If they don't, there's nothing you can do about it.

Yeah.

And if it keeps coming up as an issue that they're constantly, you know, mentioning or complaining about or venting about or whatever, like you then have the choice to like set that boundary where you're like, Hey, you know what?

I've heard about your dating quite a bit.

Mm-hmm.

We've had the conversation that maybe you should expand your horizons and like try dating other people.

Mm-hmm.

You're not willing to do that.

I really don't want to keep hearing about this because it's, it's really, it's almost stressful for me.

Yeah.

Like, can we talk about other other topics?

Yeah.

Like you can do that.

Yeah, I've given you my advice.

Like, you don't want my advice, buddy.

Yeah, that's hard.

Cause like we've all been in that situation with friends where it's like you keep giving this friend advice and like they're not taking it and there's just nothing you can do.

So at the end of the day, like you then need to control what's good for your mental health.

And if distancing yourself so you don't hear about those problems,

that's an option.

And especially if it's like, oh my God, you're still complaining that you can't be with a supermodel.

And like.

Like

when you say it like that,

like, damn.

Like, oh my God, we have to be realistic, but we can't be mean about it.

No.

The top comment I really like, by the way.

Okay, so

they say, I find that guys like this often aren't chasing something they find attractive.

They're chasing approval by other guys.

They want a trophy wife.

They want other men to see their instamodel girlfriend as a status symbol.

I think the best thing to do here would be to try and counteract that narrative in his head.

Compliment women that are not conventionally attractive in front of him.

If he calls someone ugly, say, no, she's not.

She has a really pretty smile or whatever.

Don't engage in any weird, lusting over bombshell women behavior.

If asked, empathize that social media isn't real or dating a famous person must be super annoying or that it looks like it requires a lot of upkeep.

Hopefully if you model healthy.

Hopefully if you model healthy dating behaviors, he catches on and comes back down to earth a bit.

That, yeah, I mean, overall, it seems like a good tactic.

A little bit of a Jedi mind trick, which I usually love.

Yeah.

I think that is like a good thing to point out too, because like he could be coming from just like kind of an emotionally immature place.

Like,

you know, if he hasn't had dating experience or like he could look at Instagram and be like, what I'm seeing on Instagram, right?

100%.

No FaceTune there.

Yeah.

So like he could even have these unrealistic standards in his head and like all he's seen is that.

And so that's what he thinks he should get.

I know, yeah.

Cause all of you with people that they're listing here, like Instagram models, super models, it's all like people that they do not know in the real world.

And I think you go on Instagram, you go on TikTok, and like it kind of goes back to our conversation in the first story of like, you think you have a different warped perspective of what the real world actually looks like.

Yeah.

And like.

You can go to an airport and there are thousands of people and there's not one person who looks like that sometimes.

Like it's really not the actual reality that we're living in.

No.

And there's so many people that are doing it right, being themselves.

And then there's so many influencers that are like feeding into that really bad, toxic like ideal.

And I think a great example is like, I don't really follow her, but I saw a video of her the other day.

And it's Olivia Ponton.

That sounds super familiar.

I think there's like rumors about like her and Joe Burrows or something right now.

But she posted a video and it just popped up and she's sitting there crying in the airport.

Like she can't navigate the airport, which hey, been there.

That's real.

And then she's like not wearing makeup, like has a breakout.

And I'm like, as someone who's having like the worst adult acne of my life, like I'm like, so relatable.

There's no beauty filter on her video.

And I'm like, I love to see that.

Yeah.

I love to see that.

That seems real.

I love that.

And then you have like other influencers that are like literally gymnasts and still face-tuning their photos to make themselves even smaller.

And it's like, yeah.

What?

Why?

And like, why?

Yeah.

And even like people who are preaching about like those types of things might still be FaceTuning their photos and like

having these filters on.

And like, I'm not above, I, I use filters on sometime.

When I found out that what the TikTok beauty filter was, I found about the TikTok beauty filter a year ago.

I was like, oh, this makes a lot of fucking sense because I have been scrolling my feed and being like, how are all of these people naturally appearing in the wild?

This is shocking to me.

And then I was like, I'm throwing that on a couple of videos too.

I know.

I mean, I do like that on Instagram, it shows usually if there's like a filter on it.

But people just like, they see that and now they find a workaround.

Yeah.

Now they do something else.

I know.

And that's the part of the disclosure.

It's, I, it's tough.

And, and it seems to be affecting

all genders, like, which makes sense.

It makes sense that it would be like, okay, women are feeling insecure.

Men are, their expectations are crazy.

Like, you think that everybody out there is just looking like that?

Like, I know.

That is not the real world.

No.

So OP did reply to that first comment earlier and said, I think you are right with the trophy comment.

You've put into words what I've been thinking for a time now.

We all have insecurities and his is this.

Maybe he's looking for a way out of the insecurities using women instead of actually facing the root problem.

And then that's deep.

Yeah.

I know.

Like, that's this person's really thinking about it.

And he used whom properly as well, which I really liked.

Oh my God, Justin would love that.

I'm like, I don't know whom, whom, who, whatever.

You just replace it with him or he, and whichever one makes sense, then you know.

No, it's like math.

We're not, no, too hard.

And then he did say, because other people were like, wait for him to figure it out on his own.

Yeah.

He said, the figuring it out on his own has been my approach for two years, and it obviously hasn't worked.

I'm writing this after an uncomfortable situation the other day in a bar where where he basically made a fool of himself by making inappropriate jokes to a group of girls.

I know he's a jerk and I know I should not tolerate certain comments.

I should start answering back immediately instead of after the fact.

Yeah.

Maybe he'll learn like this.

Some gentle parenting, but also at the end of the day, like you don't have to be his friend.

If like you know he's a jerk and you know he's shitty, like, yeah.

Let him just...

keep doing his thing and being single and not finding someone that's going to be a good partner and cares for him And you go on and live your life.

And I feel like you can self-aware king.

You can say like clearly holding out for an Instagram model isn't working for you without having to explicitly say because you are not attractive enough.

That's true.

Like that's this method that you have of like waiting for a supermodel to come around and fall out of the sky.

Like that's not happening.

So why don't we try something else?

Maybe he needs the tough love.

After now knowing this has been two years.

Yeah.

Like it's no wonder OP is kind of going crazy.

I'd be going crazy.

And like, making rude, like, I don't know if this is saying that in the bar where he made a fool of himself by making inappropriate jokes to a group of girls means he was calling them ugly, or if he was just being sexually inappropriate to girls who didn't want anything to do with him.

It sounds like one of those two situations.

I know.

I could see him being in a bar and being like, well, you're a five.

Yeah.

You're a four.

So at that point,

that's when I'd be like, dude, like, bye.

We've got

like, yeah.

And why not call him out?

Yeah.

Like, what you're annoyed by the behavior.

It's frustrating to be around.

You haven't called him out.

You haven't addressed it in the moment.

Time to start.

Otherwise, like, why even be friends with him?

Yeah.

What's he offering?

Sounds like he was a more jokes, compelling friend before he ever talked about dating.

Literally.

Like,

literally.

Well,

that's all she wrote over there.

I guess we're kind of saying

disclose a bit.

Like, disclose nicely.

Disclose with tact.

Yeah.

Disclose with tact.

And I think that's a general rule with all disclosures.

Like, I hate the saying, oh, well, I'm just brutally honest.

I hate that.

No, you're just brutal.

Honesty isn't just like automatically moral.

I know.

And there's more to that saying where it's like, honesty without tact is just cruelness or something like that.

Like there is a saying like that.

No, I think you've said it before.

It was

like like honesty without kindness is this.

And then kindness without honesty is something.

Irresponsible.

Something, yeah.

I'm like butchering my saying right now, but I think like if you're gonna make a disclosure, it should be tactful.

It should be kind.

It shouldn't be like

using it in a moment where like And I've, oh my God, you guys have had to

the moment, the moment that you choose to do it is so important.

This is so important.

Like I've had just like some communication issues like with my dad lately and just like trying to like find times to record his show and like we're both really busy so there's got to be a lot of give and take and there's just like this this thing that keeps coming up and i don't know how much i want to get into the drama right now oh drama but essentially like he isn't getting a plus one for the wedding just because of like

issues regarding that.

And so there was something that came up with like trying to find a recording date and like a thing being an issue.

And I in the moment just wanted to be like, this is exactly why you're not getting a plus one at the wedding.

But I held it in.

Yeah.

And that's the reality.

Like it's like that could be the truth.

Yeah.

But in this moment, it's going to be so emotionally charged and hurtful.

Yeah.

Whereas if you approached it in a neutral environment without any kind of heated conversation going on, you could have potentially a conversation where you both come out of it having gained something.

Exactly.

And it's all, it's all about like the tact and the timing.

And it's like, you want to be the most effective.

It's not going to be effective if you're super emotional or like the other person is coming from a weird place.

Like you have to really have a sit-down conversation.

And like, that's just life.

Like, I'm not perfect.

My family's not perfect.

Like, that is life.

And it's like, how do you address it?

So, like, you do have the best time or the best relationship and like carry it forward.

And so

like this guy needs to address it before it accidentally comes out in like a a heated moment.

You know what I mean?

It's so on his mind and been bothering him for years now.

Where it's like, I could easily see them getting into a fight and him just spluttering out, well, you're ugly and that's why no Instagram models want to date you.

Yeah.

Like, I don't know, you know?

I know.

I know.

It's so hard knowing when and where and how to address certain things, but it's got to be addressed.

Yeah.

I'm sure.

At the end of the day, like disclose, but I don't think there's any situation in which you need to tell your friend, hey, you're not attractive.

I agree.

I think that we had a similar story on a bonus episode.

I don't know if it's out yet.

It will be.

It's like a, it's a very different perspective, which is fun.

Yeah.

It is kind of an inverse of it in a way.

Yeah, it's a good story for sure.

It's just like we don't need to be humbling our friends

with like malintent in our hearts.

But I don't think that this person was ever coming from that angle.

It's just like.

No, this person doesn't seem like he's a hater.

Yeah.

And I think that other story, it's very like that person was trying to humble their friend.

And it's like, why are you friends with someone if you don't even like them?

Yeah, you're a hater.

I think that was that energy.

Yeah, for sure.

Okay, moving on.

I've got a couple more for us.

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Okay,

this one

is so toxic.

Ooh, so toxic, and it's very fresh.

It is two days old, coming from R/Off My Chest, titled, My Wife Thinks We're Soulmates.

I think I Settled.

Oh, if I take back my Ooh.

We've been together for nine years, married for six.

She is kind, loyal, sweet, smart.

She loves me deeply, and she believes we were destined to meet.

I treat her well.

I've never cheated.

We laugh together.

On paper, we're perfect.

But if I'm being honest, I've never been in love with her.

I cared about her, yes, but I was heartbroken when we met.

She came into my life when I needed stability and comfort, and I mistook that for love.

I kept thinking it would grow.

It never did.

Now we're in our 30s.

We talk about kids.

She looks at me like I'm the best thing that ever happened to her, and I feel like a fraud.

I don't want to hurt her.

I don't want to blow up both of our lives, but every night I lie awake, feeling like I stole the future of someone who could have had real, epic love, and I don't think I'll ever forgive myself for it.

We, I'm like heartbroken, and that wasn't even that long.

And like, I feel so attached to the,

I mean,

yeah, like she, she deserves someone who loves her.

I know.

She, like, she deserves someone who looks at her the way she's looking at him.

Oh, just

that's so nice.

Sad.

I also, like, my fear is that the guy in the last story is going to end up like this guy, of being like, oh, I think I settled.

Like, I think I, I mean, I mean, this, this guy seems like he's potentially not coming from a negative place.

It's, he's not like, she's ugly and I could do better.

He's just saying, like, I've just never really been in love with her,

which is really heartbreaking.

I know.

Am I reading that right?

Did he say anything?

Yeah, no, he's literally said, like, I've, I was waiting for the feelings to grow i i thought it would come and never did and it's just it's sad because i think you know there's another post i saw and i

i don't know if we'll get into it on this episode maybe we should maybe we should but it's about kind of like disclosing things and it's just like i think people do things out of obligation get married, have kids.

It's those societal pressures that are making it feel like that's what you should do, what you have to do.

And you don't have to do anything.

And so for this guy, I feel like he was like, oh, well, she's nice.

She's smart.

She's sweet.

She's loyal.

Have to propose.

You know, we've been together so many years.

And she feels so confident that I'm the person she's supposed to be with.

And I mean, I have definitely felt this way in a few relationships of like,

I could fall in love with this person.

I feel like this is someone who so many people could fall in love with.

Like they're, they're so wonderful.

Like they're, they're x y z they're all of these things but i don't feel that way about them but like because they're so amazing i'm sure that has to grow like i'm sure that i would get there and then you know it doesn't and inevitably i have to be like all right i guess that's not happening but i can understand

feeling like someone is so amazing that like you are bound to get there with them and like not wanting to let go of such an amazing person.

But at a certain point, it's like, oh, it's really not happening for me.

Like I'm really not getting there.

And I never have been.

I know.

And it's, it's crazy that you would go nine years.

It's crazy that you would propose.

And that's what like really confuses me.

And it's like, even out of obligation, like that's a crazy thing to do out of obligation and societal pressure.

Like it honestly is scary because for her.

It's not like she hasn't felt the love because if she hasn't felt love,

she probably would have ended it or like, you know, moved on or not said yes to a proposal.

So it's like, he's definitely displayed these things and he's faked it, which is like, honestly, really scary.

It's like, is that a psychopath kind of like behavior?

Like, you know what I mean?

Where it's like, you're not even being real.

Like, you're completely putting on this front, this persona, this mask that, like, in your head, you're like, I don't love her.

Yeah.

But if you asked her, I'm going to say the things.

I'm sure his wedding vows were beautiful.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, they're talking about kids.

Yeah.

They're talking about life and like growing old together.

And it's like, she's going to feel like the rug got pulled out from her.

That's such a good point.

Of like, of course, I think, as I was saying earlier, she like deserves to find somebody, but to hear now that your husband and a person you've been with of nine years, like has not loved you this whole time.

What mental damage does that do to you going into any relationship going forward?

Yeah.

Like trusting that people really feel the way about you that they're saying and like just how many insecurities and like not trusting your own self will that now bring up?

Is it almost better to just be like, I've fallen out of love with you or I get like, damn, this actually is a hard conversation about disclosure because it's like we just were saying about honesty not always being fully the right thing to do.

Is I don't know.

Is it best here to be completely honest about never being in love with someone or will that that just hurt them unnecessarily?

Like, I think that he should break up with her and like give her a chance to find someone, but

this would really do a number.

I know.

I'm curious what you guys think as far as disclosure and honesty with this one.

Like, I definitely think they need partial to

get divorced.

Yeah.

They both need to move on.

Like, he.

She really deserves the chance to find someone that loves her.

And so does he.

Yeah.

You know, he he did this for whatever weird, you know, reason in his head.

But yeah, do you say, I've never been in love with you?

Or do you kind of like white lie truth it where you're like, you know, as we've grown older, I just realize I want different things.

And maybe call it a midlife crisis.

I don't know.

Like, literally, put it on you.

I don't.

I'm just not.

in love anymore.

Like I've noticed that my feelings have kind of changed and it has nothing to do with you.

And like, I don't know.

Like, I feel like you need like a therapist involved to prevent like the most damage like you need to prevent as much damage as you can yeah i'm very curious about audience comments on this one because i

i'm unsure about what the right thing to do is i know and so it's like you probably should involve a therapist like you yourself do should go to a couple sessions and be like this is how i feel

how do i have this conversation and like protect her feelings as much as i can because it seems like he wants to do that based on this write-in.

Like I know this write-in is like, it's obviously a shitty thing he's done, but it does seem like he's like, it's not malintentioned, but it was like,

it's passive hurting somebody.

It's passive, like it's, it's selfish.

It's taking the easy route and someone else is the,

what's it called when someone else gets hurt because of your actions.

Like you're caught in the crossfire.

Like it's not.

Yeah.

Yeah.

she's the collateral.

Collateral.

She's the collateral of you just like passively not facing your own emotions and not and not taking them seriously.

But then, yeah, again, then I'm like, maybe she should know the full truth because how do you fully like go back through it and heal from it and like understand what happened if you're getting a different

like then she may be wondering when did it change?

Like, how did I not notice when it changed?

Like, I don't know.

Because it's going to hurt no matter what.

I think mentally it would mess me up more if I found out that my husband never loved me.

Because if I started dating again and like a person was showing me the same things, opposed to me, which seemed like love, I'd be like, I can't trust anything.

Yeah.

Like, it's all fake.

And then that questioning of those relationships is going to cause those relationships to end because no one wants to be like questioned on their feelings for you all the time.

I know.

And that's something that like I've seen come up where it's like, my girlfriend does not trust what I tell her.

And it's like, are you sure you love me?

Are you you sure you love me?

Are you sure you love me?

Do you love me?

Do you love me?

It's like that can instill doubt in the other person that's being asked that constantly.

So you do have to have that trust.

So it's like, how do you allow her to move forward after this big bombshell?

I'm curious if you guys think disclose on this one.

Maybe this is the poll we do on this episode because this is crazy.

Because he has been doing what's easy for him this whole time.

And the only thing that's right now is to to make it as easy as possible for her in this breakup.

Yeah.

And I think that's fair.

There's no way it's going to be easy.

But like, yeah.

No.

It's so tough.

It's so tough.

I just like don't even know

what to think of it.

The other post I was thinking of that is super similar is also from like True Off My Chest.

So same kind of like off your chest vibes.

And it's titled, I found my dad's secret Reddit account, and now I can't look at him the same.

I'm going to read it on Patreon for you guys, but essentially, it's kind of like this person found their dad's Reddit account that said similar things to this guy and was just like, Oh, I'm not in love with, I don't love my wife, I don't love my kids.

And so, this person's like, Wait, I'm the kid, like you regret having me?

Like, what?

Oh, that's so heartbreaking.

So, we'll get into that on Patreon,

but

I think it feeds into this one.

It feels really similar.

Oh,

subscribe to the Patreon immediately.

That's crazy.

I need to know.

So, OP has since removed the post.

Oh, wow.

They themselves took it down.

No moderator involvement here.

And the top comment is: May this Love Never Find Me.

Yeah.

Which is literally what I was thinking as I read the post myself.

Nightmare, like worst nightmare.

Yeah.

That comment only has 694 upvotes right now.

Like, it seems like this post has kind of flown under the radar a little bit.

Mm-hmm.

Next comment down to that is this.

Went on a few dates with a guy recently.

We were around the time things should start to get serious.

He was perfect, but I had a weird feeling in my gut.

So I told him I felt like I was the smart choice, but not the one that he wanted to make.

Lo and behold, he told me that I tick every single box he could think of, and even the ones he didn't know could be ticked, his words.

And that's why he kept seeing me.

But he feels nothing for me whatsoever.

Oh my God.

Why would you want someone like that for yourself and trick another person into it?

I'll never understand people like OP.

I do feel like this happens.

I mean, there's that whole thing about like a lot of the time men will marry someone because of the timing in their life being like, oh, like this is now I'm ready to get married.

So whoever's around is like who I'll marry.

Yeah.

And there's like also kind of like a convenience aspect of having a wife that's like a little bit different.

And I don't know.

Like,

I

do think love can grow between two people

in so many situations.

And to like have this expectation that love could grow between you and somebody else isn't that crazy.

Like arranged marriages happen in most of the world and like amazing love grows out of that.

But if you have this like feeling of like, oh, this is really just the smart choice, like

you should disclose, like, I don't know.

I know, because there might be someone that just wants a relationship of convenience.

Yeah.

They just want someone to like live together and have an emotional connection with on a basic platonic level.

And like, there are those relationships out there.

Like, some people want that.

Yeah.

But they don't want anything physical or whatever.

And like, I don't know.

I feel like OP doesn't necessarily know what he wants or who he is.

And like, I don't, I want to be crystal clear.

Like, I'm not saying this is necessarily OP.

I'm not saying OP could potentially be dangerous.

I'm coming from a place right now of like, I've recorded four clues episodes this week.

And like, my brain is like very true crime.

And I think there's like this crazy thing to me in a lot of the cases we have, especially serial killers that have families and kids.

Yeah.

And some of the most like notorious ones do.

And so we just did the case of Dennis Rader who gave himself the the name BTK.

And he was very involved in the community.

He was a church leader.

He had a wife.

He had a kid.

What does BTK mean?

Bind, torture, kill.

Oh, okay.

Got it.

Very bad.

Very bad.

Yeah.

And

his daughter was like, you know, giving interviews and like has since like wrote a book after he was convicted.

And his daughter is just like, I never, ever would have imagined.

He was a pretty good dad.

He built his tree houses and like all this stuff.

but then like you listen to him describe what he did and he's so emotionally detached and it's just like there's this disconnect of like he did what he thought was normal and what he should do but did he ever like yeah no feelings i know what you're saying you're not saying like op is this person no but there also is a dangerous type of person who will go with the they they struggle with emotions and they struggle understanding societal expectations themselves, like personally and emotionally.

So they just do what they see other people doing and like what seems to be socially normal.

Yeah.

And like then get caught up in that type of life.

And like that is very scary.

That.

And it's like, create the own normal that you want to live.

Like don't follow all of these societal expectations.

Like if that's truly not what you want and you have to mask or put on this front to do that.

And I think this comment is interesting.

And maybe this, I've like glanced at the first line.

So I'm like, maybe this is what I'm trying to say in like

a cohesive way because my brain is like fumbling today, it feels like.

But this person goes, a lot of people consider a partner or spouse an acquisition rather than a fellow human you're doing life with, much like a job or a car.

They feel getting one is an important life milestone and you hope for the best one you can get.

You don't have to be overjoyed being at work or driving your car.

It just has to provide you with everything you want from it for what you put into it and be of sufficiently high quality to feel proud of having.

But relationships don't work like that.

And a lot of people get way too far in before they figure that out.

That's also sort of like partially what I was trying to say earlier together.

With the Instagram one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That is literally like that mindset.

Yeah.

And is that from all of like the societal pressure that I keep talking about?

Like, where does that stem from?

There are definitely like a lot of people who their biggest desire is to just like fit in and like seem normal and seem like

they're doing all of the things that you're supposed to do in this life to be normal and

i don't know that's got to be a tough thing to unlearn or like undo the person who posted that initial comment about the guy who like ticking the boxes or whatever people were like how was he with you like what did he act like And they go on to say, he was perfect.

In fact, too perfect.

It's maybe a stupid metaphor, but I felt like he was treating me like a beautiful and expensive painting and he somehow came in possession of and had to treat it like a treasure for no other reason but its price.

He was not treating me like an old picture of your grandma that you found somewhere and that reminds you of her and makes you miss her while it has no monetary value.

You want to make sure you hung it properly and protect it at all costs.

Doesn't that make sense?

By all means, he's a great guy.

And the moment I brought up how I felt, he took it seriously and basically candidly admitted to it but this is not love this is not enough and never should be that's such a good meta like that is such a good way of describing it amazing yeah no notes on that but yeah that's kind of all we have on this one obviously op removed the post i don't think we're gonna get an update but again if you want that other story it's gonna be on patreon the one also from true off my chest titled i found my dad's secret reddit account and now i can't look at him the same i think it's kind of in the same vein as this, and it's going to be an interesting conversation for sure.

Yeah, such a good disclosure, such a good topic because it's like really the gray area of a lot of these situations.

Like, actually, I don't know what the right thing to like.

This is, there's not a moral rule book in the world where you can like clearly find the answer of like, how is the best way to go about this situation?

Yeah.

And there's also that saying too, where it's like, are you telling someone something because because it's going to make them feel better or apologizing?

Or is it going to make you feel less guilty?

Yeah.

And so it's like, why are you actually telling someone something?

Is it to clear your own conscience?

And it's going to make their life exponentially worse, like then you maybe shouldn't tell them.

Yeah.

You really need to be thinking about like when you do things from the angle of like, what will be the outcome of me saying this for that other person?

Like, what will

happen if I say this to like, even like things online, when people get mad about things online, I'm like, is this an actionable thing that you're saying?

Like, like, what do you think will come out of this in a good way?

Or will this actually hurt the cause that you're fighting for?

You know, like, I just feel like approaching things from an angle of like, what will my words actually do?

And like, how will it impact these other people?

And will it actually create what I'm hoping will happen?

Or will it just feel good to say this?

Because we're oftentimes just saying things because they will feel good to say them.

Exactly.

So, ask yourself.

And I think like we can have takes on these stories, but like you could ask me a similar story and I might have a totally different disclosure answer.

It is so context by context.

Or if I'm going through something different that week, I might like a difference.

I could have fully evolved as a person.

Yeah, like over the next six months, like maybe a friend pissed me off and like now I'm really sensitive to that topic.

And so now I'm the sore spot.

Yeah.

I think that's what's interesting about this show.

It's like I can,

one, I can't listen to old episodes.

I cringe,

cringe.

But it's like, we're constantly evolving in our takes, in our thought process, our experiences.

So, like, no, like, you cannot hold me to a take I said a month ago.

You know what?

You cannot hold me to a take I said two years ago.

Like, I am hopefully always growing in a positive way.

Yeah.

Like, this isn't my permanent take.

Like, I could very easily see a comment the second you post this episode that completely changes my perspective.

Oh, 100%.

And then I'll be like,

oh, that, like, that's really changes the way that I look at this.

And that makes a lot of sense.

And I've never had that experience.

So now that I'm reading this, like, I do have a different opinion.

I know.

And that's important.

That is so important.

I think for all of us to feel that way.

Because that's how you grow by having conversations and trying to find middle ground and like connecting on things.

I think that's like especially important in the times we're in right now.

It's like we need to get to a spot where like we can have conversations and kind of like come together and like grow.

And like, otherwise, like, how do we move forward?

Yeah.

And I love seeing comments that are like very constructive in a way where like you're providing your own opinion because I read that and I'm like, oh, that's your thought process.

Yeah.

Oh my God.

That makes so much sense.

And then it helps me grow in my thought process.

I love learning.

Or getting a therapist to comment on the story about is it okay for a therapist to do this?

Like that's so interesting.

Yeah.

Or like if you've been through something and you're like, no, Morgan, like I've been through this.

Here's my take on that story.

Yeah.

I love, love seeing your takes.

Like it, it helps us grow.

Like it's really all of our, all of our hot takes.

A village really, guys.

It's a village.

I know.

It's probably like, what is it now?

Like maybe.

It's not just two anymore.

No.

We got to change the show name.

I'm like, how many of us are out there now?

2 million, 10 million, like 10 million hot takes?

Like,

the show has reached a lot of corners of the world.

That's beautiful.

That's beautiful.

That's beautiful.

Okay, only have you for a few more minutes.

This is going to be, I think, a straight off the bat one.

Whoa.

Last one for us today.

Coming from our very own two hot takes subreddit, 15 days old, titled, My Boyfriend Kept Asking Me to Moan Louder.

Turns out he was recording me.

This still doesn't feel real to write.

I, 25 female, have been dating a 27 male for a year.

Things were good.

We had amazing chemistry and he made me feel sexy until recently.

He kept asking me to moan louder during sex.

At first, I didn't think much of it.

Some people are just into that, but it got to a point where it felt forced, like I was performing, not enjoying.

I told him it made me self-conscious.

He said it was just a turn on and dropped it.

Or so I thought.

Last week, I used his laptop to log into my email because mine was glitching.

He'd left a folder open by accident.

It was full of audio files, literally labeled by date.

When I clicked one, it was me, moaning, saying his name, our sex, recorded without my consent.

I confronted him immediately.

He didn't even deny it, just said it wasn't that serious, and that he only used the mic, not a camera.

Like that made it better.

He also admitted he, quote, shared a few clips with his friends in a group chat as a joke.

I dumped him on the spot, blocked him, and filed a report.

His friends have tried texting me to chill, and that he's going through it.

Good.

I hope he rots.

I feel violated in a way I can't even describe.

Oh, he should die.

Yeah, he should die.

That's disgusting.

He's a terrible person.

Saying it was a joke and then having his friends defend him too.

All of you fucking suck.

You're all the worse.

He sent it to these friends.

Like,

that's so awful.

Also, it just kept getting worse and worse.

And then, like, trying to turn your intimate sexual relationship into pornography.

It's like porn isn't real.

Like, there is a reason that that doesn't feel natural for her.

And it's like, it's making her uncomfortable.

And like, that's just like not, like, he, he wants it to be a show for him to show to his friends and show later instead of like actually having a good sexual experience with her, you know.

To be crystal clear, you always need to disclose if you want to record.

Yes, you need to consenting parties for things like that.

And that's what's like so weird to me.

In some states, you can record audio.

It's a like a one-party state.

You don't have to tell the other person you're recording them.

Which even of that, like weird.

Even of even of a sexual encounter, sexual, always.

Yeah.

Always.

Non-negotiable.

And then sending that, even if it's like, then that's revenge porn.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

No, she's got a case.

Yeah.

And this is a two-hot taste listener out there.

Like,

I am so sorry.

I am so, but I'm so proud of you for dumping him on the spot and reporting.

And just like, I'm so.

And he tried to gaslight you and be like, oh, it was just a joke.

And like, all my friends think it's fine.

It's fine.

It's not a big deal.

Why do you think it's such a big deal?

You, you should be shot.

It's a huge deal.

It is a huge deal.

Yeah.

You can't involve someone else in something and not disclose what you're doing.

Yeah.

Especially in relation to sex.

Yeah.

Come on.

Consent is key.

Consent is, makes it fun.

Consent is necessary and needed.

Yeah.

It's like sort of just the most important part of all of it.

And some people.

would be into recording.

She even might have been had he approached it in like a, oh, I just want one to save for later.

Like the fact that he wasn't asking her, that shows more.

Like he either knew she would say no or he got off on the fact that she wasn't consenting to it.

And he was like sneakily doing this.

Hell no.

Hell no.

Top comment.

He's going through it.

He and his friends are morons and none of them should get into a relationship.

Keep pushing for the charges.

Don't let the police or him stop you pushing forward.

Absolutely.

Keep us posted, OP.

I know a lot of us would love an update and sending you all the support, all the support.

That's just so invasive.

So invasive to go through.

I'm so sorry, but

you got this.

Keep pressing, as the top comment said, those charges.

But that's all I got on the disclosure theme.

I loved this.

We'll have way more on Patreon because I have literally 20 other tabs open and I feel like they're all

pretty good stories.

I know they're all your children.

It's like, which one do I like let go of?

I know that I sit here, even as we're recording, I click through all the tabs and I'm like, oh my God, what is going to like make the people happy?

Like, I always think about like what you guys want story-wise.

And

also,

what do you want for episodes coming up?

I would love to hear any themes you guys would like to see, any guests you'd like to see.

I really try to curate a show you guys will love.

And like, I give myself anxiety probably picking these stories.

I've wanted to do like kind of a happy feel-good theme, but traditionally, like those episodes don't perform well.

So I'm like, do you not want feel-good?

I'm like, just let me know what you want.

Maybe like one at the end or something.

I don't know.

I know.

Is the feel-good sandwich?

Was that a good tactic for these episodes?

I can try to structure more of those episodes and themes.

So just let me know.

You know, we're heading into August very soon.

I've got my wedding coming up in September.

So I'm really trying to work ahead and get ahead on stuff.

and you know this is a village as i've said it's a community and want to make sure you guys are getting content you love but other than that head over to patreon we've got new merch out limited run on certain items so head over there that's all i got yeah thanks for having me always a pleasure queen a regular i've had so many people say i just got to tell you i love michaela becoming more of a regular

no way that's awesome i just did an interview with batches It's not how you say it.

Why did I say it like that?

I feel like

you say it.

And Marissa Dow over there, who listens.

Hi, Marissa.

And she was like, I just got to tell you, I love Michaela coming on.

Yay.

That's awesome.

It's always a good time.

Thanks, Divas.

I love these episodes.

But thanks, guys.

And until next time.

Bye.

Bye.