Status: Untraced - E7: Together to Tunda Bhuj

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Speaker 4 It's one of Britain's most notorious crimes, the killing of a wealthy family at Whitehouse Farm. But I got a tip that the story of this famous case might be all wrong.

Speaker 1 I know there's going to be a twist, won't they? A massive twist. At every level of the criminal justice system, there's been a cover-up in this case.

Speaker 4 I'm Heidi Blake. Blood Relatives is a new series from In the Dark and The New Yorker.
Find it now in the In the Dark podcast feed.

Speaker 3 Enjoy this episode of Status Untraced. Here is episode 7.

Speaker 2 You're listening to Status Untraced, a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey.

Speaker 2 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast. This podcast also contains subject matter, which may not be suitable for everyone.

Speaker 2 Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 1 So the two other people that you're referring to right now that were with them,

Speaker 1 do you know their names or

Speaker 1 no? Nobody knows.

Speaker 1 Mid-October 2016, Mountaineers Manu and Jagdish were charged with the task of searching for Justin Alexander. and ordered to bring the porter, Anil Kumar, with their team.

Speaker 1 During this search, Anil Kumar opened up, allegedly revealing a detail that no one's mentioned before.

Speaker 1 That at the last resting spot, he was with Justin, the Baba, and a couple.

Speaker 1 Anil, who began his descent down the mountain first, couldn't confirm who followed, but claimed that this couple eventually caught up with him.

Speaker 1 After maybe an hour or so, this couple crossed Anil Kumar because he was carrying a luggage with him, quite a heavy one. The first were the couples to arrive at Tundabuj.

Speaker 1 And the day Justin was lost, this couple didn't stay in Tundabuj. They came straight to Kirganga.
And they never came forward and talked to the police. They didn't do anything.

Speaker 1 Like when they watched us walking around in Kirganga camp, next day they went from there. So you saw them there, but you didn't realize that? Our team saw them.

Speaker 1 Manu is saying his team saw these two individuals at Kirganga.

Speaker 1 I try to gather every detail possible to attempt to identify who this couple might be.

Speaker 1 When Jagdish, his English a bit choppy, mentions them in relation to the last photo.

Speaker 1 That phrase piques my curiosity, and I quickly pull up a Facebook profile on my phone. When I show Jagdeesh, his eyes widen.

Speaker 1 He jabs his finger at my screen. He stutters,

Speaker 1 that's the guy.

Speaker 1 That guy in the photo.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 His photo with him at Takarkuma.

Speaker 1 That photo with him there? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Maybe it's possible that they don't want to be getting to this matter.

Speaker 1 I turn to Alex, showing him the photo of the individual they say hiked alongside Justin. The guy in the photo, there's the last photo where Justin's

Speaker 1 wrapped up with Nermal.

Speaker 1 It's Normal Patel,

Speaker 1 the man in the last photo with Justin.

Speaker 1 The thing is, I spoke with Nermal nearly a week ago, and he gave a different story.

Speaker 1 Sometimes I get the feeling I'm lost.

Speaker 1 Can't sign

Speaker 1 it, it's never enough.

Speaker 1 Now I find that every mirror I go

Speaker 1 that once I saw the killer,

Speaker 1 once I saw the killer of close.

Speaker 1 I'm Liam Luxon, and this is Status Untraced.

Speaker 1 Episode 7:

Speaker 1 Together to Tundebush.

Speaker 1 The last known photo of Justin Alexander was taken along the Pin Pravati hiking trail, the path to Montalai Lake.

Speaker 1 The photo is of Justin wrapped in a shawl and an Indian hiker, Nirmal Patel, who crossed paths with him.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 contrary to our previous understanding, I'm being told Nirmal and Justin didn't cross paths, but instead hike down the mountain together.

Speaker 1 So these guys, these two additional people, you're saying, Do we know what the guy looked like or what Nash?

Speaker 1 Right there. This is a girl and this Nirmal, they were together in Kirganga.
They met Justin and then they started going on a track together there.

Speaker 1 Only Nirmal and the girl, not Justin. No, Justin was awesome.
All three together.

Speaker 1 This tip is a game changer. These are two new faces who were allegedly present in the same area and at the same time as Justin's disappearance.

Speaker 1 Who are they? Normal and a girl?

Speaker 1 What do they know?

Speaker 1 And why have we never heard about them before?

Speaker 1 Although, as I look back at the interrogation of the porter, I realize we have.

Speaker 5 There are two people more were sitting. I moved ahead.
I had to make food.

Speaker 1 The mention of these two people was never questioned by police or brought up again.

Speaker 1 Like the officers in the room, it slipped by our attention.

Speaker 1 Did you guys end up speaking with Nermal?

Speaker 1 No. No? Okay.
Do they know if Nermal was ever seen in the area like a week after? He was never seen.

Speaker 1 See, if the police is not concerned anymore, police is not searching anymore. So even if he comes after in a year, no one bothers.

Speaker 1 The reason I'm having trouble following this is because I spoke to Nirmal about a week ago and he said

Speaker 1 one he wasn't with them. He started later on the trek and he went with other people.
No. But

Speaker 1 they went all together. Together to Tundawuj.

Speaker 1 If Nermal was hiking with Justin, then that means his story about crossing paths is a lie.

Speaker 1 I'm finding it hard to believe. Nirmal uploaded the the photo with Justin and he interviewed with us.
Why would he do that if he had something to hide?

Speaker 1 I mean, from that, the whole story, do you feel suspicious at all about the guy and the girl, or just the Baba?

Speaker 1 Yeah, the same thing all three had done. Like, Baba is also run away from the complaint, and both guys also didn't do any complaint.

Speaker 1 Let's let's back up for a second. Was there anyone else who mentioned a couple or that two people went with Justin Justin to Tundebush?

Speaker 1 Friends which running a restaurant in Kirganga.

Speaker 1 I'm told Kirganga is best envisioned as a campground nestled high in the Himalayas. A kind of place so remote, the air feels different.

Speaker 1 But it's not entirely a no-man's land. There are large tents serving as cafes and restaurants.

Speaker 1 And allegedly, one of the restaurant owners noticed a couple lurking around for a month month and claimed their behavior grew suspicious.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 did you guys ever tell Susie that there are these two other people? on the trip Susie and Jonathan, the mother and the friend from New Zealand, Longhair?

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 we told to police.

Speaker 1 When we was returned from the rescue that time we told to police that these guys are saying that they are together So please catch them and ask them if they have any clue about that But they didn't find next

Speaker 1 police didn't catch them

Speaker 1 They believe that there is some you know sort of a backstep by the police.

Speaker 1 They should have at least immediately caught the guy and the girl because as per the statement of the the food people they were together.

Speaker 1 You guys saw what the girl looked like, right?

Speaker 1 No one saw that.

Speaker 1 There seems to be some sort of miscommunication. So to unravel it, I ask Manu and Jagdish to confirm the details again.

Speaker 1 And here's what I gather.

Speaker 1 Anil Kumar, the porter, said a couple joined him, the Baba and Justin at some point on the trek. While descending the mountain, this couple overtook Anil

Speaker 1 and he did not see them when he arrived at Tundabush.

Speaker 1 In fact, he never saw them again.

Speaker 1 According to Manu and Jagdish, Anil identified Nirmal Patel as part of this couple.

Speaker 1 The only other person they spoke with who claimed to see a couple was a restaurant owner in Kirganga.

Speaker 1 It's not confirmed if it's the same couple from Anil Kumar's story.

Speaker 1 Manu and Jagdish reported these statements to the police, but the couple was never caught or seen in the area again.

Speaker 1 You remember how like earlier I said, the more that you find out, feels like the less I know. This is one of those times.

Speaker 1 I'm so confused because I feel like everything that I started to think was going on is that I'm not sure if I can do it. See,

Speaker 1 these are the guys

Speaker 1 who actually talked to the porter. He's not telling somebody else's story.
He's telling the conversation with the Anil Kumar. So why would he lie? He won't be lying us for anything.

Speaker 1 Neither he wouldn't create anything. This is a meaningful point.

Speaker 1 What reason do Manu and Jagdish have to lie?

Speaker 1 They don't seem like the type to spin wild tales for kicks. But we can't just take their word for it.

Speaker 1 We need to know if this tale about a couple, and specifically Nirmal Patel, can be corroborated.

Speaker 1 Do you recognize him? No, no.

Speaker 1 Just for the hell of it, you don't recognize him either. Middle? No, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 Who is he?

Speaker 1 He was one of the guys that was also supposed to go on the trek with Nermal, and it looks like he and Nermal did do a hike over Montalai that year for sure.

Speaker 1 On Nermal Patel's Facebook, he uploaded a group photo from a trek to Montalai.

Speaker 1 So is this the group who crossed paths with Justin?

Speaker 1 If we can talk to the other hikers, we can figure it out.

Speaker 1 Lucky for us, some of them in the photo are tagged. So we send out friend requests, hoping they can clear up this mystery.

Speaker 1 But that's not all we're after.

Speaker 1 We need to head to Kirganga, where the elusive restaurant owner might be.

Speaker 1 They believe that maybe the guy who actually saw that couple with Justin, they might be be still there, but they're not sure about that because they don't have their number or anything.

Speaker 1 And just when we thought they'd given us everything, Manu and Jagdish drop another lead.

Speaker 1 A connection to someone who's imperative to the case. The other guy who we should meet is Falubhai.
He was in regular touch with the Baba. And when Baba committed a suicide, he was there.

Speaker 1 Because he's seen the Baba even hanging.

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Speaker 1 Getting the move on now.

Speaker 1 The next morning, our bags packed, we move deeper into the valley. Overnight, I took the opportunity to revisit my phone call with Normal Patel.

Speaker 1 And something stands out that I previously missed. Before jumping to conclusions, I consult Arshdeep to make sure I'm not misinterpreting what could be Indian slang.
In that conversation, he goes,

Speaker 1 yeah, we never got into any arguments. We were good friends.
We were good friends. Good friends, it means they were close.
It means they were spending some time together.

Speaker 1 That's why I'm going to say, okay, now we are spending together. So I'm going to say, oh, Liam and I are good friends.
Yeah. But would you say,

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. If you ask me, only then I'll reply that answer or that sort of argument.
We never went into any arguments. Why would Normal Patel say that?

Speaker 1 Yeah, he was quite humble.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but like, we never went through any argument or stuff like that. They were good friends.

Speaker 1 Is he covering his tracks? Or am I reading too deeply into this conversation?

Speaker 1 I hold the thought as we finally, for the first time, enter into the mouth of the Parvati Valley. Rockies, it looks like the Rockies.

Speaker 1 We climb higher and higher, the mountains towering on one side and a sheer cliff face on the other, plunging 200 yards below to the river's swirling rapids.

Speaker 1 Stones and everything inside, if someone gets into the river, he just dies due

Speaker 1 power. Yeah.

Speaker 1 The road we're on is really only wide enough for a single car, but vehicles whiz by from both directions. The drive alone is liberating, as if we're leaving civilization behind.

Speaker 1 Legend is the Hindu god Shiva meditated in these mountains for 3,000 years. When he opened his eyes, he was spellbound by its untouched beauty and named it after his wife, Parvati.

Speaker 1 An hour later, we pull into the valley's main base, Kasole.

Speaker 7 It feels

Speaker 1 like a hippie place.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, it feels like spring break at Yosemite.

Speaker 1 Kasole is buzzing with energy. Packed with a mix of carefree backpackers and spirited locals, there's a dash of everything here.

Speaker 1 Street vendors touting hot dumplings and chai.

Speaker 1 Tiny shops brimming with handmade wool sweaters and winter jackets. An enticing scents drifting from open-door hookah bars.
Justin knew this place like the back of his hand.

Speaker 1 And if he's still out there, this is one of the places he might be.

Speaker 1 Stepping out to explore Casole's market, my eyes are immediately drawn to the flyers, which are plastered on walls everywhere. Neon ads for rave parties.

Speaker 1 And next to them,

Speaker 1 missing person posters.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 here's the thing.

Speaker 1 If Justin's in the area

Speaker 1 still,

Speaker 1 he's gonna stand out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 People are gonna recognize him.

Speaker 1 Do you think we should ask a couple random people and just be like, hey, have you seen this guy at all in the last while?

Speaker 1 I'm caught off guard when a scruffy Caucasian man saunters past us.

Speaker 1 First one we've seen since landing in Kulu.

Speaker 1 A hood over his head, slipping through the crowd, he evades interaction.

Speaker 1 I scramble to take a closer look, and when he glances over, I see his face.

Speaker 1 It's not Justin.

Speaker 1 Because I assume that he's like a father, he's like overstate his visa,

Speaker 1 an outsider who's made himself a local.

Speaker 1 How many more are there?

Speaker 1 I carry the thought as we prepare for our interview with Palu.

Speaker 1 The man we're told actually saw Baba Rawat hanging.

Speaker 6 To me, Hinduism is not an organized religion. I call it a disorganized, decentralized religion.

Speaker 1 However, this is not that interview.

Speaker 1 Actually, the tape I'm going to play for you now wasn't even recorded in India. It's an interview I conducted two months prior to our trip at the University of Southern California.

Speaker 1 Why am I taking you back in time?

Speaker 1 Simple.

Speaker 1 To understand the gravity of the questions I'm about to ask Palu, this information is critical to grasp.

Speaker 1 There is no common God.

Speaker 6 There is no common sacred text like a Bible or Quran. There is no common ritual, no common origin story, no common congregational song.

Speaker 1 I sought out the guidance of Dr. Varun Soni, the Dean of Religious Studies at USC, for his knowledge of Babas, their beliefs, their devotions, and their place in Indian society.

Speaker 1 Seated outside on campus, Dr. Sony explained, it all links back to India's most practiced religion.

Speaker 6 That being said, there is a common belief now that Hindus believe that we have a soul. That soul is reincarnated over many lifetimes.

Speaker 6 And the goal of Hindu life is for that soul to no longer be reincarnated, to achieve what we call moksha or liberation from the cycle of rebirth.

Speaker 1 And most practicing Hindus renounce the world at the end of their life. Yes.

Speaker 6 In traditional Hinduism there's four stages of life. The first stage is celibate student.

Speaker 6 So for the first 25 years of your life, brahmachari, you're just focused on developing the skills you need to be in the world, get your degree, get your education, etc.

Speaker 6 The next stage, which is the longest stage, is grahasta, which is householder. This is when I'm fully in the world.
I have a spouse, I have a kid, I make my money, I give back to my community.

Speaker 6 The third stage is vanaprastha, which is forest dweller. This is kind of one step out of the house.
I'm meditating, but I'm still kind of at home.

Speaker 6 And the last stage at the end of your life, sannyas, is full renunciation. That's when I give up my family.
I give up my material possessions. I spend my time going from holy festival to holy city.

Speaker 6 And the idea there is that by renouncing all that, the thing that took me decades to get, it will ensure that my soul won't have the impulse to come back.

Speaker 1 Here's the deal with Babas.

Speaker 1 They decide to skip the steps and jump to Hinduism's final stage. They relinquish ties to everything, including possessions, money, and even family, to emulate the revered deity, Shiva.

Speaker 6 They're not attached to any particular thing.

Speaker 6 They're focused on transcending their own physical desires. That means they might fast, they might not have sex, they might stand on one leg for a month, they might wear a loincloth in the snow.

Speaker 6 They want to be the master of their senses, of their realms.

Speaker 1 It's this unfettered lifestyle that often entrances curious outsiders, for better or worse, to become involved with Babas.

Speaker 6 So I think people feel as though India is like its own planet, but the problem with thinking that is that you can then essentialize it as something other.

Speaker 6 And that also means that if you're exotifying it, you might not think that the Baba is crooked. You might not think that the sadhu is trying to rip you off.

Speaker 6 And trust me, there are plenty of Babas that are corrupt and sadhus who are trying to rip you off.

Speaker 6 So if I'm coming with this otherization, I don't see people for who they are, good or bad. I have a blind spot then.

Speaker 1 We've heard all sorts of things about Baba Rawat.

Speaker 1 A con man,

Speaker 1 drug addict, murderer.

Speaker 1 But what if he was the real deal?

Speaker 1 I laid out Justin's case to Dr. Varun Soni to get his take.

Speaker 6 So in India, the idea of a guru is the idea of a teacher. If you want to get better at meditation or spiritual practice, you have to have a guru.

Speaker 6 And so the idea that a Baba would take interest in someone, hey, this foreigner's been in a cave for three weeks. They must be a real legitimate spiritual seeker.

Speaker 6 And hey, I'm going to go to this lake anyway and I can bring him along.

Speaker 6 That to me seems like it could be totally viable. It's not like he tried to take him to his cousin's jewelry shop.
It's not a tout. He was also in a cave, wasn't looking for him, perhaps.

Speaker 6 Their paths crossed in a kind of unexpected way, and maybe neither of them planned it. But knowing what little I know from Justin, it seems like he would be excited about this possibility.

Speaker 1 For Hindus, there's a core principle, ahimsa,

Speaker 1 a mandate of nonviolence towards all living beings, including oneself. Meaning murder, suicide? That would compromise one's spiritual journey.

Speaker 1 So if we consider Babarawat was devout, then we also have to ask, what killed him?

Speaker 1 As we know, his hanging happened three days shy of his release. Coincidence?

Speaker 1 Maybe.

Speaker 1 But the more we dig into it, the shadier it gets.

Speaker 1 Mumbai News threw a spotlight on the police's handling of the custodial death as unprofessional. The police violated protocols by not calling in a local doctor to declare Baba Rawat dead.

Speaker 1 Instead, they drove Rawat's body to a district hospital 16 kilometers away.

Speaker 1 The autopsy wasn't performed until the next day by two doctors who weren't forensic experts and who didn't even visit the crime scene.

Speaker 1 In regards to the claim that Rawat had removed his own genitals, we later learned this from Jonathan Skeels.

Speaker 1 As for the loan officer who discovered Baba Rawat, he was quietly suspended and then then just seemingly disappeared.

Speaker 1 While all of it's unsettling, there's one thing Dr. Sony told me that, if found true, would entirely change our understanding of Justin's case.

Speaker 6 So India has the highest rates of custodial death in the world.

Speaker 1 That means that it has the highest rate of people who die while in police custody, before they're charged with anything.

Speaker 6 India has a well-deserved reputation of going straight to torture as a means of interrogation. And there's a lot of work being done in terms of reforming that.
But

Speaker 6 if someone dies in custody in India, I think most people assume they were killed by the police.

Speaker 1 Many assume Babar Rawat took his own life due to an overwhelming sense of guilt, that he did something to harm Justin.

Speaker 1 But if we find evidence that Babar Watt was murdered, then this story takes on a whole new dimension.

Speaker 1 One where Baba Rawat may not be the perpetrator, but a victim himself.

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Speaker 7 First, is I want to ask this Baba, just Baba, you just tell us to true.

Speaker 7 So if you see from this spot, he falls down. So for us, it's more easy to find.

Speaker 1 Coming back to India. Coming back to our investigation in Kasole.

Speaker 1 On a sunny rooftop patio, we're face to face with the rescuer, Palu.

Speaker 7 Something happened with this Baba because he's not the exact one time talking. It is 100% this story.
Sometimes he talking, I was walking in the front, he was coming back.

Speaker 7 Sometimes he telling to me, I'm Mr.

Speaker 7 Beck, He was in front of me. I'm just telling him, Baba, please, just help us.

Speaker 1 Among the four rescue companies in the valley, Paulu's team is one of the oldest. His solid rapport with local police allowed him continuous access to Baba Rawat in prison.

Speaker 1 So he kept on changing who was in front, who was in back.

Speaker 7 No, he just

Speaker 7 one time he took a mistake. He told me I was behind Justin.

Speaker 7 So second time, he told me I was in front of Justin.

Speaker 1 And Anil never ended up changing, telling a story differently. It was always the same story.

Speaker 7 Anil was an accurate one. I asked Anil, if you know something happened, I pay you money also.
He told me, Brother, I swear to God, I don't know nothing.

Speaker 1 So, the Baba hangs himself. Did you end up seeing his body?

Speaker 7 No, actually, that time is they take down.

Speaker 7 They want to take in about post-mortem.

Speaker 1 I was told Paulu had seen Babara Watts' hanging body.

Speaker 1 Turns out that's not the case.

Speaker 1 Yet, Paulu says the cops provided him with a detailed account of how the body was supposedly found.

Speaker 7 Police told me, they told me he hang first, he hang like this. It was his not so high, so he do like this, he tie air, then he do like this, Leg like this.

Speaker 1 And okay.

Speaker 1 The explanation is a bit wonky. For a clearer picture, Paulo demonstrates on a fence outside.
He says the Baba's cloth doti was tied at the top of the cell and then motions, kicking his legs up.

Speaker 7 Up, leg up,

Speaker 1 and fell back. Believe me.

Speaker 3 So this is the bar.

Speaker 1 as he falls back his back would probably end up coming through about there and his neck would be leg is up leg is up

Speaker 1 Essentially what he's saying is that Babara Watt had the noose around his neck his back against the cell bars and hanged himself upside down that kills you weird

Speaker 1 It'd be easier for it to turn this way, but wouldn't you fall one way or another? I would

Speaker 1 see that's a

Speaker 1 it sounds impossible. Were you suspicious of some of the cops working there for killing him?

Speaker 7 No.

Speaker 7 I'm sure there is nobody killed to Baba

Speaker 7 because

Speaker 7 every time one police guy needs to stand there near the door.

Speaker 7 In forest, in any house, I think somebody can kill. In police station, I'm sure nobody can kill.
He do so sight.

Speaker 1 To repeat Paulu's words, he believes nobody could have killed Baba Rawat because he was inside the police station.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm skeptical. And if this upside-down hanging is the official story, I have to see if it's even remotely plausible.

Speaker 1 Is it possible for us to go with you tomorrow to see that jail cell that the Baba was in?

Speaker 7 Baba's?

Speaker 1 Yeah?

Speaker 7 Okay. I can explain to where is the police sitting and

Speaker 7 how it was before there.

Speaker 1 Perfect. Yeah, let's do it.
That sounds like a plan.

Speaker 1 In the early AM, Alex, Archdeep, and I nervously pile into Paulu's car.

Speaker 1 Just 10 minutes east of Kasol, Paulu pulls off the main asphalt road onto a gravel drive.

Speaker 1 Before us is a coral-painted brick building, cracked and fading.

Speaker 1 Overhead, a sign reads, Police Post, Mani Karan.

Speaker 1 At the entrance, no metal detector, no waiver, not even a hint of security. Two officers stare when we enter, but say nothing.

Speaker 1 We just waltz in.

Speaker 1 Paulu leads us to a disheveled single desk office to the right.

Speaker 1 Stacks on stacks of paperwork are strewn in piles on every surface. I've never seen anything like it.

Speaker 1 I try to make sense of the scene when I turn turn to the left and see it.

Speaker 1 The jail cell. Is this where you visited the baba?

Speaker 7 Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 Suddenly, Alex and I are left in the office unattended, and we race over to the cell to inspect it.

Speaker 1 The front, like a cage, has thick metal bars that stretch from the floor to the concrete ceiling. Only five horizontal rungs run across, and it's not very tall.
The top rung barely reaches five feet.

Speaker 1 Inside, the walls are smooth and cold.

Speaker 1 I step through the cell door

Speaker 1 and look up,

Speaker 1 expecting to find air ducts, wiring, or pipes, something you could fashion a noose to.

Speaker 1 But the entire ceiling is bare.

Speaker 1 All I can think is, Baba Rawat

Speaker 1 could not have hung himself here.

Speaker 1 If you have tips or information on the individuals in this podcast, please email us at statusuntraced at gmail.com or leave us a message at 507-407-2833.

Speaker 1 Status Untraced is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. I'm your host, Liam Luxon.
Executive producers are Alex Vespested, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay.

Speaker 1 Producers are Meredith Stedman and myself.

Speaker 1 Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Consulting producer, Jonathan Skeels.

Speaker 1 Associate editors are David Bash and Charles Rosner of GetUp Productions.

Speaker 1 With additional editing by Sidney Evans.

Speaker 1 Artwork by Trevor Eiler. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set.

Speaker 1 Our theme song is Colder Heavens by Blanco White.

Speaker 1 NYX by Cooper Skinner.

Speaker 1 Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group. And also special thanks to Ars Deep Sharma and Kabir Sharman.

Speaker 1 For more podcasts like Status Untraced, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app.

Speaker 1 Or visit us at tenderfoot.tv.

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Speaker 1 Every story has layers, and sometimes the truth hides in plain sight. I'm Josh Dean, host of Chameleon, the podcast about people who transform, deceive, and survive.

Speaker 1 From con artists to unbelievable yet true occurrences, we dive into stories where nothing is ever quite as it seems. Because to understand the world, you sometimes have to change the way you see it.

Speaker 1 Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.