Status: Untraced - E7: Together to Tunda Bhuj

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Enjoy this episode of Status Untraced.

Here is episode 7.

You're listening to Status Untraced, a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast.
This podcast also contains subject matter, which may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.
So the two other people that you're referring to right now that were with them, do you know their names? No, nobody knows. Mid-October 2016, Mountaineers Manu and Jagdish were charged with the task of searching for Justin Alexander in order to bring the porter, Anil Kumar, with their team.
During this search, Anil Kumar opened up, allegedly revealing a detail that no one's mentioned before. That at the last resting spot, he was with Justin, the Baba, and a couple.
Anil, who began his descent down the mountain first, couldn't confirm who followed, but claimed that this couple eventually caught up with him. After maybe an hour or so, this couple crossed Anil Kumar because he was carrying a luggage with him, quite a heavy one.
The first were the couples to arrive at Tundabhuj. And the day Justin was lost, this couple, they didn't stay in Tundabhuj.
They came straight to Kheer Ganga. And they never came forward to talk to the police themselves? They didn't do anything.
Like when they watch us walking around in Kheer Ganga camp, next day they went from there. So you saw them there, but you didn't realize that they were involved?

Yes, our team saw them. Manu is saying his team saw these two individuals at Kirganga.
I try to gather every detail possible to attempt to identify who this couple might be, when Jagdish, his English a bit choppy, mentions them in relation to the last photo. That phrase piques my curiosity, and I quickly pull up a Facebook profile on my phone.
When I show Jagdish, his eyes widen. He jabs his finger at my screen.
He stutters, that's the guy. That guy in the photo? Yes.
His photo with him at Thakarkur. That photo with him there? Yeah.
Maybe it's possible that they don't want to be getting to this matter. I turned to Alex, showing him the photo of the individual they say hiked alongside Justin.
The guy in the photo, there's the last photo where Justin's like wrapped up with Nirmal.

It's Nirmal Patel, the man in the last photo with Justin.

The thing is, I spoke with Nirmal nearly a week ago, and he gave a different story. Now I find in every mirror a ghost

Only once I saw the killer

Once I saw the killer up close

I'm Liam Luxon, and this is Status Untraced.

Episode 7, Together to Tundabhush. The last known photo of Justin Alexander was taken along the Pin Parvati hiking trail, the path to Montalai Lake.
The photo is of Justin, wrapped in a shawl, and Indian hiker, Nirmal Patel, who crossed paths with him. Now, contrary to our previous understanding, I'm being told Nirmal and Justin didn't cross paths, but instead, hiked down the mountain together.
So these guys, these two additional people you're saying, do we know what the guy looked like? Or what Nash? That he just showed you. Nirmal, right there.
This girl and this Nirmal, they were together. In Kiridanga, they met Justin.
And then they started going back together. Only Nirmal and the girl, not Justin.
No, Justin was all three together. All three together.
This tip is a game changer. These are two new faces who were allegedly present in the same area and at the same time as Justin's disappearance.
Who are they? Nirmal and a girl? What do they know? And why have we never heard about them before? Although, as I look back at the interrogation of the porter, I realize we have. There are two people more were sitting.
I moved ahead. I had to make food.
The mention of these two people was never questioned by police or brought up again. Like the officers in the room, it slipped by our attention.
Did you guys end up speaking with Nirmal? No. No? Okay.
Do they know if Nirmal was ever seen in the area like a week after? He was never seen. See, if the police is not concerned anymore, police is not searching anymore,

so even if he comes after a year, no one bothers.

The reason I'm having trouble following this

is because I spoke to Nirmal about a week ago,

and he said, one, he wasn't with them.

He started later on the trek,

and he went with other people.

No.

But... went with other people.
No. But they went all together.
Together to Tunda-Buj. If Nirmal was hiking with Justin, then that means his story about crossing paths is a lie.
I'm finding it hard to believe. Nirmal uploaded the photo with Justin, and he interviewed with us.
Why would he do that if he had something to hide? I mean, from that, the whole story, do you feel suspicious at all about the guy and the girl, or just the baba? Yeah, the same thing all three had done. Like, baba has also run away from the complaint, and both guys also didn't do any complaint.

Let's back up for a second.

Was there anyone else who mentioned a couple, or that two people went with Justin to Tundabuj?

Friends which running a restaurant in Kierganga.

I'm told Kierganga is best envisioned as a campground nestled high in the Himalayas,

a kind of place so remote, the air feels different.

Thank you. I'm told Kierganga is best envisioned as a campground, nestled high in the Himalayas.
A kind of place so remote, the air feels different. But it's not entirely a no-man's land.
There are large tents serving as cafes and restaurants. And allegedly, one of the restaurant owners noticed a couple lurking around for a month and claimed their behavior grew suspicious.
tell Suzy that there are these two other people? Suzy and Jonathan, the mother, and the friend from New Zealand, Longhair. Uh, no.
We told to police. When we was returned from the rescue, that time we told to police that these guys are saying that they are together.
So please catch them and ask them if they have any clue about that. But they didn't find extra.
Police didn't catch them.

They believe that there was some sort of backstab by the police.

They should have at least immediately caught the guy and the girl.

Because as per the statement of the food people, they were together.

You guys saw what the girl looked like, right?

No one saw that.

No one ever, no one saw the girl at all? Only the restaurant person. I'm now feeling a bit lost.
One moment, Manu was telling me the whole team saw this couple at Kyrganga. The next, he's saying it was just the restaurant owner who spotted them.
There seems to be some sort of miscommunication. So to unravel it, I ask Manu and Jagdish to confirm the details again.
And here's what I gather. Anil Kumar, the porter, said a couple joined him, the baba, and Justin at some point on the trek.
While descending the mountain, this couple overtook Anil, and he did not see them when he arrived at Tundebush. In fact, he never saw them again.
According to Manu and Jagdish, Anil identified Nirmal Patel as part of this couple. The only other person they spoke with who claimed to see a couple was a restaurant owner in Kierganga.
It's not confirmed if it's the same couple from Anil Kumar's story. Manu and Jagdish reported these statements to the police, but the couple was never caught or seen in the area again.
You remember how like earlier I said, the more that you find out feels like the less I know?

This is one of those times.

I'm so confused because I feel like everything that I started to think was going on.

See, these are the guys who actually talk to the porter.

He's not telling somebody else's story.

He's telling the conversation with the Anil Kumar.

So why would he lie?

He won't be lying to us for anything.

This is a meaningful point. What reason do Manu and Jagdish have to lie? They don't seem like the type to spin wild tales for kicks.
But we can't just take their word for it. We need to know if this tale about a couple, and specifically Nirmal Patel, can be corroborated.
Do you recognize him? No. No.
Just for the hell of it, you don't recognize him either. Middle? No, no, no.
No. Who is he? He was one of the guys that was also supposed to go on the trek with Nirmal.
And it looks like he and Nirmal did do a hike over Montalai that year for sure.

On Nirmal Patel's Facebook, he uploaded a group photo from a trek to Montalai.

So is this the group who crossed paths with Justin?

If we can talk to the other hikers, we can figure it out.

Lucky for us, some of them in the photo are tagged.

So we send out friend requests, hoping they can clear up this mystery. But that's not all we're after.
We need to head to Kierganga, where the elusive restaurant owner might be. They believe that maybe the guy who actually saw that couple with Justin, they might be still there, but they're not sure about that because they don't have their number or anything.

And just when we thought they'd given us everything,

Manu and Jagdish drop another lead,

a connection to someone who's imperative to the case.

The other guy whom we should meet is Falu Bhai.

He was in regular touch with the Baba.

And when Baba committed suicide, he was there. Because he seen the Baba even hanging.
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Getting the move on now.

There's a lot of people who are not going to be able to do it. Toes.
Toes. Getting, getting the move on now.
The next morning, our bags packed, we moved deeper into the valley. Overnight, I took the opportunity to revisit my phone call with Nirmal Patel.
And something stands out that I previously missed. Before jumping to conclusions, I consultsteep to make sure I'm not misinterpreting what could be Indian slang.
In that conversation, he goes, well, there was a couple of weird things. One, I was like, yeah, he seemed like a pretty humble guy.
He was like, yeah, yeah, very humble guy. He's like, yeah, we never got into any arguments.
We were good friends. We were good friends.
We were good friends.

It means they were close.

It means they were spending some time together.

That's why I'm going to say, okay, now we are spending together.

So I'm going to say, oh, Liam and I are good friends.

Yeah.

But would you say, oh, yeah, no, Liam and I didn't get into any arguments?

No, I wouldn't say.

Why would I say that?

That's it?

Exactly.

Unless you ask me about it.

Yeah, exactly.

If you ask me only, then I'll reply that answer. We never went into any arguments.
Why would Nirmal Patel say that? Yeah, I was quite humble. Yeah, we never went through any argument or stuff like that.
We were good friends. Is he covering his tracks? Or am I reading too deeply into this conversation? I hold the thought as we finally, for the first time, enter into the mouth of the Parvati Valley.
Rockies. It looks like the Rockies.
We climb higher and higher, the mountains towering on one side, and a sheer cliff face on the other, plunging 200 yards below to the river's swirling rapids. Stones and everything inside, if someone gets into the river, he just dies due… Power.
Yeah, power, yeah. The road we're on is really only wide enough for a single car, but vehicles whiz by from both directions.
The drive alone is liberating, as if we're leaving civilization behind. As we're driving in towards the end of the valley, which is where I've been told Mantlai Lake lays, it does feel mystical.
There's definitely something mystical about this place. Legend is, the Hindu god Shiva meditated in these mountains for 3,000 years.
When he opened his eyes, he was spellbound by its untouched beauty and named it after his wife, Parvati. An hour later, we pull into the valley's main base, Kasol.
It feels like a hippie place. Yeah.
Yeah, it feels like spring break at Yosemite. Yeah.
Kasol is buzzing with energy. Packed with a mix of carefree backpackers and spirited locals, there's a dash of everything here.
Street vendors touting hot dumplings and chai. Tiny shops brimming with handmade wool sweaters and winter jackets.
And enticing scents drifting from open door hookah bars. Justin knew this place like the back of his hand.
And if he's still out there, this is one of the places he might be. Stepping out to explore Casol's Market, my eyes are immediately drawn to the flyers, which are plastered on walls everywhere.
Neon ads for rave parties. And next to them, missing person posters.
You know, here's the thing. If Justin's in the area, still, he's gonna stand out.

Yeah.

People are gonna recognize him.

Do you think we should ask a couple random people and just be like,

hey, have you seen this guy at all in the last...

I'm caught off guard when a scruffy Caucasian man saunters past us. First one we've seen since landing in Kulu.
A hood over his head, slipping through the crowd, he evades interaction. I scramble to take a closer look, and when he glances over, I see his face.

It's not Justin.

Because I assume that he's like a father.

He's like overstayed his visa.

Oversteed his visa or something.

An outsider who's made himself a local.

How many more are there?

I carry the thought as we prepare for our interview with Palu. The man we're told actually saw Baba Rawat hanging.
To me, Hinduism is not an organized religion. I call it a disorganized, decentralized religion.
However, this is not that interview. Actually, the tape I'm going to play for you now wasn't even recorded in India.
It's an interview I conducted two months prior to our trip at the University of Southern California. Why am I taking you back in time? Simple.
To understand the gravity of the questions I'm about to ask Palu, this information is critical to grasp. There is no common God.
There is no common sacred text, like a Bible or Quran. There is no common ritual, no common origin story, no common congregational song.
I sought out the guidance of Dr. Varun Soni, the Dean of Religious Studies at USC, for his knowledge of Babas, their beliefs, their devotions, and their place in Indian society.
Seated outside on campus, Dr. Soni explained, it all links back to India's most practiced religion.
That being said, there is a common belief now that Hindus believe that we have a soul.

That soul is reincarnated over many lifetimes.

And the goal of Hindu life is for that soul to no longer be reincarnated,

to achieve what we call moksha or liberation from the cycle of rebirth.

And most practicing Hindus renounce the world at the end of their life. Yes.
In traditional Hinduism, there's four stages of life. The first stage is celibate student.
So for the first 25 years of your life, brahmachari, you're just focused on developing the skills you need to be in the world. Get your degree, get your education, et cetera.
The next stage, which is the longest stage, is grahasta, which is householder. This is when I'm fully in the world.
I have a spouse, I have a kid, I make my money, I give back to my community. The third stage is vana prastha, which is forest dweller.
This is kind of one step out of the house. I'm meditating, but I'm still kind of at home.
And the last stage at the end of your life, sannyas, is full renunciation. That's when I give up my family.
I give up my material possessions. I spend my time going from holy festival to holy city.
And the idea there is that by renouncing all that, the thing that took me decades to get, it will ensure that my soul won't have the impulse to come back. Here's the deal with Babas.
They decide to skip the steps and jump to Hinduism's final stage. They relinquish ties to everything, including possessions, money, and even family, to emulate the revered deity, Shiva.
They're not attached to any particular thing. They're focused on transcending their own physical desires.
That means they might fast, they might not have sex, they might stand on one leg for a month, they might wear a loincloth in the snow. They want to be the master of their senses, of their realms.
It's this unfettered lifestyle that often entrances curious outsiders, for better or worse, to become involved with Babas. So I think people feel as though India is like its own planet.
But the problem with thinking that is that you can then essentialize it as something other. And that also means that if you're exotifying it, you might not think that the Baba is crooked.
You might not think that the Sadhu is trying to rip you off. And trust me, there are plenty of Babas that are corrupt and Sadhus who are trying to rip you off.
So if I'm coming with this otherization, I don't see people for who they are, good or bad. I have a blind spot then.
We've heard all sorts of things about Baba Rawat. A con man.
Drug addict. Murderer.
But what if he was the real deal? I laid out Justin's case to Dr. Varun Soni to get his take.
So in India, the idea of a guru is the idea of a teacher. If you want to get better at meditation or spiritual practice, you have to have a guru.
And so the idea that a Baba would take interest in someone, hey, this foreigner's been in a cave for three weeks. They must be a real legitimate spiritual seeker.
And hey, I'm going to go to this lake anyway, and I can bring him along. That to me seems like it could be totally viable.
It's not like he tried to take him to his cousin's jewelry shop. He's not a tout.
He was also in a cave, wasn't looking for him, perhaps. Their paths crossed in an kind of unexpected way, and maybe neither of them planned it, but knowing what little I know from Justin, it seems like he would be excited about this possibility.
For Hindus, there's a core principle. Ahimsa.
A mandate of nonviolence towards all living beings, including oneself. Meaning murder, suicide, that would compromise one's spiritual journey.
So if we consider Baba Rawat was devout,

then we also have to ask, what killed him? As we know, his hanging happened three days shy of his release. Coincidence? Maybe.
But the more we dig into it, the shadier it gets. Mumbai News threw a spotlight on the police's handling of the custodial death as unprofessional.
The police violated protocols by not calling in a local doctor to declare Baba Rawat dead. Instead, they drove Rawat's body to a district hospital 16 kilometers away.
The autopsy wasn't performed until the next day by two doctors who weren't forensic experts and who didn't even visit the crime scene. In regards to the claim that Rawat had removed his own genitals, we later learned this from Jonathan Skeels.
No, and the autopsy he had a penis. And he either told Justin that or Justin played it up first, you know.
Justin wasn't short of insightful commentary. As for the loan officer who discovered Baburawat, he was quietly suspended, and then just seemingly disappeared.

While all of it's unsettling, there's one thing Dr. Soni told me that, if found true,

would entirely change our understanding of Justin's case.

So India has the highest rates

of custodial death in the world.

That means that it has the highest rate of people

who die while in police custody, before they're charged with anything. India has a well-deserved reputation of going straight to torture as a means of interrogation.
And there's a lot of work being done in terms of reforming that, but if someone dies in custody in India, I think most people assume they were killed by the police.

Many assume Babur Rawat took his own life due to an overwhelming sense of guilt,

that he did something to harm Justin.

But if we find evidence that Babur Rawat was murdered,

then this story takes on a whole new dimension.

One where Babur Rawat may not be the perpetrator, but a victim himself. First is, I want to ask this Baba, just Baba, you just tell us the truth.
So if you see Coming back to India.

Coming back to our investigation in Kasol.

On a sunny rooftop patio, we're face to face with the rescuer, Palu. Among the four rescue companies in the valley, Palu's team is one of the oldest.
His solid rapport with local police allowed him continuous access to Baba Rawat in prison. So he kept on changing who was in front and who was in bag.

And Anil never ended up changing, telling a story differently.

It was always the same story. So the Baba hangs himself.
Did you end up seeing his body? I was told Palu had seen Baburawat's hanging body. Turns out that's not the case.
Yet, Palu says the cops provided him with a detailed account of how the body was supposedly found. Police told me, they told me he hang, first he hang like this.
It was not so high.

So he do like this.

He tie here.

Then he do like this.

Leg like this.

And, okay.

The explanation is a bit wonky.

For a clearer picture,

Paolo demonstrates on a fence outside.

He says the Baba's cloth dhoti was tied at the top of the cell, and then motions kicking his legs up. Up, leg up, and fell back.
Believe it. So this is the bar.
As he falls back, his back would probably end up coming through about there. His neck would be legs up.
Legs up. Essentially, what he's saying is that Babur Watt had the noose around his neck, his back against the cell bars, and hanged himself upside down.
That kills you? Weird. It'd be easier if it was turned this way, but...
Wouldn't you fall one way or another? I would... See, that's a...
It sounds impossible. Were you suspicious of some of the cops working there for killing him? No.
I'm sure there is nobody killed to Baba because every time one police guy needs to stand there near the door. In forest, in any house, I think somebody can kill.
In police station, I'm sure nobody can kill. He do so sight.
To repeat Palu's words, he believes nobody could have killed Baba Rawat because he was inside the police station. Well, I'm skeptical.
And if this upside down hanging is the official story, I have to see if it's even remotely plausible. Is it possible for us to go with you tomorrow to see that jail cell that the Baba was in? Baba's?

Yeah. Okay.

Perfect. Yeah, let's do it.

That sounds like a plan. I'm not interested.
I'm not interested. I'm not interested.
I'm not interested. I'm not interested.
I'm not interested. I'm interested.
I'm interested. I'm interested.
I'm interested. In the early a.m., Alex Arshtiep and I nervously pile into Palu's car.
Just 10 minutes east of Kasol, Palu pulls off the main asphalt road onto a gravel drive. Go on.
Testing, testing, testing.

Testing, testing, testing.

Before us is a coral painted brick building,

cracked and fading.

Overhead, a sign reads,

Police Post, Mani Karan.

At the entrance, no metal detector, no waiver, not even a hint of security. Two officers stare when we enter, but say nothing.
We just waltz in. Is the top not dead? Palu leads us to a disheveled single desk office to the right.
Stacks on stacks of paperwork are strewn in piles on every surface. I've never seen anything like it.
I try to make sense of the scene when I turn to the left and see it. The jail cell.
Is this where you visited the Baba? Yes, yes, yes. Yeah? Suddenly, Alex and I are left in the office unattended, and we race over to the cell to inspect it.
The front, like a cage, has thick metal bars that stretch from the floor to the concrete ceiling. Only five horizontal rungs run across, and it's not very tall.
The top rung barely reaches five feet. Inside, the walls are smooth and cold.
I step through the cell door and look up, expecting to find air ducts, wiring, or pipes. Something you could fashion a noose to.

But the entire ceiling is bare. All I can think is, Babar Rawat could not have hung himself here.
If you have Thank you. 407-2833.
Status Untraced is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. I'm your host, Liam Luxon.
Executive producers are Alex Vespested, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsey. Producers are Meredith Steadman and myself.
Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Consulting producer, Jonathan Skeels.
Associate editors are David Bash and Charles Rosner of GetUp Productions. With additional editing by Sydney Evans.
Artwork by Trevor Eiler. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set.
Our theme song is Colder Heavens by Blanco White. Mix by Cooper Skinner.
Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA,

Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group.

And also special thanks to Arsteep Sharma and Kabir Sharman.

For more podcasts like Status Untraced,

search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app

or visit us at tenderfoot.tv. Hi, I'm Grace, host of Red Rum True Crime Podcast.
These cases focus on the true victims of crime. Why not jump in at episode 114, the tragic murder of Jasmine and Aaliyah.
The main suspect in this case gave an extremely bizarre interview to a number of press reporters whilst he was drunk and reportedly high. He speaks about an awful lot on camera and has this completely inappropriate laughing and chuckling response when talking about the case.
He may even have thought he was going to get away with the double murder he'd been accused of,

but what he didn't know was that two undercover officers were on their way to catch him out,

and he easily and willingly took the bait.

You can find us wherever you get your podcasts.

Just search Red Rum True Crime.

That's Red Rum, murder backwards, R-E-D-R-U-M. True crime.
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