Status: Untraced - E3: The Legend You Live

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Speaker 5 It's one of Britain's most notorious crimes, the killing of a wealthy family at Whitehouse Farm. But I got a tip that the story of this famous case might be all wrong.

Speaker 1 I know there's going to be a twist, wasn't there? A massive twist.

Speaker 4 At every level of the criminal justice system, there's been a cover-up in this case.

Speaker 5 I'm Heidi Blake. Blood Relatives is a new series from In the Dark and The New Yorker.
Find it now in the In the Dark podcast feed.

Speaker 3 And over the next few weeks, we'll be airing the remainder of the season, episodes 3 through 10.

Speaker 3 So if you haven't listened to the first two episodes, stop right now and search Status Untraced in your podcast app. That's Status Untraced, a new show presented by Up and Vanished.

Speaker 3 Follow the show and listen to the entire season right now. And it's even ad-free for Tenderfoot Plus subscribers.
Again, this is Up and Vanished Presents Status Untraced, episode 3.

Speaker 3 Hope you enjoy the show.

Speaker 2 You're listening to Status Untraced, a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey.

Speaker 2 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast. This podcast also contains subject matter, which may not be suitable for everyone.

Speaker 2 Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 4 Never seen you this kiddie. Put this in your back pocket and you can just hand it to them.

Speaker 4 It's kind of funny

Speaker 4 Alex suggested someone we should visit. Someone he worked with in the past.
So we took a drive up the Pacific Coast Highway from LA to Malibu.

Speaker 4 Nice to meet you.

Speaker 4 Our host welcomes us inside his bungalow home. A familiar place for Alex.
who spent countless hours in this same living room, piecing together another missing person case. One interview into another.

Speaker 6 Alex knows Tees is my day. Like boom boom till 9 p.m.
But then the rest of my week is like just empty.

Speaker 4 This is Neil Strauss, a New York Times best-selling author and the host of the podcast to live and die in LA.

Speaker 6 All right, so let me go to my computer because I might want to read his

Speaker 4 while Neil has experience with true crime, That's not why we're here.

Speaker 4 We're here because he knew Justin Alexander.

Speaker 6 So I ran a men's group called The Society. We have survival intensives where they learn how to like evade interrogations and survive like torture and escape from handcuffs.

Speaker 6 And Justin joined in 2012 and was just like a really positive, interesting, connected guy. I really, really liked him.

Speaker 4 As we're chatting, Neil grabs his laptop and pulls up a document he says he hasn't read since 2013.

Speaker 6 So yeah, so when someone joins the group, the first thing I do is I talk to them for half an hour and I see like who they are and what they're about.

Speaker 6 And I'll ask them a number of questions and then I'll sort of read between the lines of what they say.

Speaker 6 So his goal is he wanted to prove his confidence, learn to command a room in any situation, be generally happier and more awesome, and become the best person he can be in just about every arena, which is so just in because he wants to do everything, right?

Speaker 6 The best in in everything is a very ambitious goal.

Speaker 6 He also later said in five years he wants to be retired. Retired meaning traveling and not needing to make decisions based on money.

Speaker 6 I wanted to be single, collecting amazing stories and doing cool stuff that he'll remember forever.

Speaker 4 It's interesting that he puts it that he wanted to be single, that that was like something that was important on there too. Yeah.

Speaker 6 Like I remember him saying, like, I normally break up with someone when they ask me to marry them. You know, so he definitely was your classic avoidance.

Speaker 6 That I'll see where they're at in terms of their emotional state, anxiety, joy, depression, guilt. And what's interesting is with the positive emotions, super high.

Speaker 6 I asked about depression, guilt, anger on a scale of one to 10. He said his was a zero.
So right away, you know, there's somebody who's actually denying their emotional reality.

Speaker 6 That was the first, to me, sign that there's more going on. underneath than even he's aware of.

Speaker 4 Which brings us back to your original assessment of him him in a way.

Speaker 6 Right, so this is what I wrote at the time, and this is, I had not met him yet. We just talked on the phone for half an hour, which was interesting to look back on it when Alex contacted me.

Speaker 6 I wrote, has turned himself into an awesome, adventurous, self-made guy. However, at some point, all this is going to blow up on him.

Speaker 6 And he's going to realize he may have taken his life in partly the wrong direction as a reaction to the way he was raised.

Speaker 6 Definitely needs some inner work to the degree that his five-year goals actually change.

Speaker 6 Otherwise, he will have an existential crisis in 10 years, also completely emotionally disconnected from himself.

Speaker 6 Interesting that just to look back on, like,

Speaker 6 it appears to be close to what happened.

Speaker 6 It almost gives me the chills to

Speaker 6 read it.

Speaker 6 Sometimes I get the feeling I'm lost.

Speaker 6 Yes, hiding it is never enough.

Speaker 6 Now I find in every mirror I go

Speaker 6 that once I saw the killer,

Speaker 6 once I saw the killer of close.

Speaker 4 I'm Liam Luxon, and this is Status Untraced.

Speaker 4 Episode 3: The Legend you live

Speaker 7 i don't know what happened but my feelings for what i know about hashish and the area and what travelers do there if he did get involved with some crooks i am

Speaker 7 like 90 sure that it had to do with hashish

Speaker 4 you probably remember this voice from the last episode this is linda barini justin alexander's former romantic partner and first responder on his disappearance she's the one who told me about the mafia who lurk in the parvati valley and the dangers of dealing hashish

Speaker 7 and i think the porter the famous porter

Speaker 4 yeah i think that's a key element as a reminder There were only three people on Justin's trek. Justin, the Baba, and a porter.
a guy hired to carry supplies.

Speaker 7 I don't remember if he mentioned the porter or not. It's like I've been racking my brain for years trying to remember that detail, but it's not clear.
And that's very unfortunate.

Speaker 7 Because what do they need the porter for?

Speaker 1 For a kilogram of rice?

Speaker 4 This porter's name is Anil Singh Kumar.

Speaker 4 He might be the only person from the hike that's still alive, but he's nearly impossible to find.

Speaker 4 The names Anil Anil and the surnames Singh and Kumar are extremely common in India. It's essentially the American equivalent of Matthew Johnson.

Speaker 4 And just as a point of interest, there are no white pages in India.

Speaker 4 We know little about Anil Kumar. He was hired by the Baba and like him, never reported Justin as missing.

Speaker 7 As far as I know, they don't know anything about the porter. I don't know if you were able to get some more information, but

Speaker 7 there was this porter and then there wasn't.

Speaker 4 While Linda was the original point of contact, she never actually made it to India.

Speaker 7 At some point, I got pushed out of the equation and they wouldn't listen to me. I was a pain in the ass.
I was a pain in the ass, I admit it. But it was a bunch of people that had never been to India.

Speaker 4 We really need to speak to someone who had boots on the ground. So I asked who I should reach out to for more answers.

Speaker 7 Did you talk to to Jonathan?

Speaker 4 I recognized the name in connection with articles about Justin's disappearance. He's reported as Jonathan Skeels, one of the two men who found Justin's belongings off the hiking trail.

Speaker 7 I know that everybody was trying their best. I know it.
I know it in my heart, including Jonathan, you know, but

Speaker 7 it also seemed very

Speaker 7 detached, you know, like people cared for a couple of months and then you know the thing froze over and then that was it you know well thank you for being willing to talk about it i know it's a lot it's really i want to find out what happened

Speaker 7 if somebody figures out what happened i will help a hundred percent

Speaker 4 while the offer for help is reassuring This is the last I hear from Linda.

Speaker 4 I don't hold it against her. I come to find that's just just how this group of people around Justin operate.
Spontaneous, constantly on the move, and rarely checking their inboxes.

Speaker 4 I learned this the hard way.

Speaker 4 After Linda, I attempted to speak with everyone involved in the search for Justin.

Speaker 4 And it wasn't easy. While I did land a few interviews, one refrain echoed throughout those conversations.
Jonathan Skeels was at the center of it all.

Speaker 4 So all I could do was hope this self-proclaimed self-proclaimed investment banker turned skee bum would pick up our call.

Speaker 1 Hello. Hey, what's going on?

Speaker 1 How's it going? Good, good. We got a good connection on my end.
Thankfully, he did.

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Speaker 4 Did you know Justin before this as well?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, we had met in 2015 and stayed in contact. He was friends with common friends.

Speaker 4 Surprisingly, Jonathan Skeels, the man who spearheaded the ground search for Justin, hadn't known Justin very long.

Speaker 4 Only a year.

Speaker 4 So I asked why he decided to look for him.

Speaker 1 I was looking at all these other friends of Justin's that were making nice social media posts, but no one was doing anything about it.

Speaker 1 And I was like, well, I would not feel good good if I didn't go and help

Speaker 1 now

Speaker 1 I'm not trying to float my own boat there but that's the reality of it

Speaker 4 we continue to talk and it becomes evident that skills like we've been told possesses the secrets of the search intimate details we couldn't have learned anywhere else

Speaker 4 with what he shares Alex and I are able to piece together a timeline of the 2016 events.

Speaker 4 We're going to take you on a journey through this timeline and I want to emphasize that these details are crucial.

Speaker 4 Because when you see this case in its entirety, the facts appear in a whole new light.

Speaker 4 It begins August 18th, 2016.

Speaker 4 I should return mid-September or so.

Speaker 1 If I'm not back by then,

Speaker 1 don't look for me.

Speaker 4 Justin puts on his Instagram and blog the ominous message, saying he's headed with Baba Rawat to a spiritual ground called Montalai Lake.

Speaker 4 Two days later, he makes what will be his final post to Instagram and last calls to his mother, father, and Linda Barini.

Speaker 4 Mid-September comes and goes, and Linda, worried, contacts their mutual friend, Chris Lee, who is in the Parvati Valley.

Speaker 9 She was like, yeah, I feel something's something's wrong. Have you seen Justin?

Speaker 9 I was like, no, but he's up there and he's planning to stay for a while, you know, so I wouldn't get worried about Justin. He's a big boy.

Speaker 4 A few days later, with no word from Justin, Chris hikes eight kilometers into the mountains to a campground called Kirganga.

Speaker 4 It's where Justin started the trek and where he was supposed to have returned.

Speaker 9 And when I did go, the bubba was back. He was in his hut, but there was no Justin.
So I went over and interrogated him gently, you know.

Speaker 9 And I think at that time he had told me that they were walking back together and that Justin had decided to turn around and go back towards the lake with another group of trekkers.

Speaker 9 And I found that a little bizarre. I told Linda what I had heard.
So that's kind of like when we started to feel that, yeah, there might be something a little weird going on.

Speaker 4 September 30th. Linda Barini informs Justin's mother, Susie Reeb, of the concerns.
concerns and the next day they launch a GoFundMe titled Find Justin Alexander with a goal to raise $25,000.

Speaker 4 Word of Justin's disappearance spreads and a friend of the family reaches out with a tip.

Speaker 4 They found a pivotal photo of Justin on Facebook. It was uploaded by an Indian hiker who supposedly passed Justin on the trail.

Speaker 4 In it, The hiker holds Justin's flute walking staff, grinning. Justin stands next to him, wearing a gray headband and a dark brown shawl.
His mouth is clenched, and his face appears worn and tired.

Speaker 4 It is now the last known image of Justin Alexander.

Speaker 4 Around this time, in early October, Chris also reports Justin's disappearance to the local police.

Speaker 4 However, they are slow to take action.

Speaker 9 It was just like, oh, yeah, okay, another white boy lost in the mountain. It's not like common, common, but it's happened quite often.

Speaker 4 In contrast, through the GoFundMe gaining traction, more people learn about Justin's disappearance, including Jonathan Skiels.

Speaker 1 I told the group that I was working for I have to go to India and figure out what's happened to my maid. I don't know when I'll be back.

Speaker 4 Sunday, October 9th.

Speaker 4 Skiels meets Susie Reeb at Heathrow Airport. Together, they embark on the long flight to New Delhi, where they meet with embassy officials, plead for help, and then continue north to the mountains.

Speaker 1 It's like an 8 a.m. arrival, 10 a.m.
We were sitting in the offices of the superintendent of police and had the barber brought in for questioning

Speaker 1 right in front of us.

Speaker 4 And did you and Susie do the questioning?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I've got video of us hearing him explain his side of the story.

Speaker 4 Is that something they usually allow you to do?

Speaker 1 I'm sure that wouldn't happen in Mumbai or in Delhi, but in these Hodunk little backstations,

Speaker 1 you know, there was a lot of attention being brought to it, so they were trying to appease me in any way.

Speaker 4 As Baba Rawat is interrogated, officers and locals who are in the room translate his words.

Speaker 1 The first story was that Justin went back up into the mountains after they had a disagreement. The next version was Justin was ahead of him, and it was pretty clear that his story was changing.

Speaker 1 There was just too many versions.

Speaker 4 The porter is also questioned, but let go.

Speaker 4 In the following days, Skiels gathers stories about the Baba's reputation.

Speaker 1 He was very much a fake, holy man, even selfish stealing from all the different camps. And, you know, he had a serious drug habit.

Speaker 4 October 13th.

Speaker 4 As urgency mounts, Susie Reeb files an official missing persons report. And Skiels pays for a helicopter to scour the vast mountain terrain.

Speaker 1 We just went flying around, just getting a survey of the area, and and just hoping that someone crawled out behind a rock with a broken leg, you know, waving a flag.

Speaker 4 Unfortunately,

Speaker 4 nothing is found.

Speaker 4 October 15th. Finally gaining momentum with police, Babara Watt is apprehended and put in a cell on a 15-day hold.

Speaker 4 October 16th.

Speaker 4 After much persuasion, The state government grants Skiels another helicopter trip. Accompanied by an Indian mountaineer, they are dropped at the suspected location where the last photo was taken.

Speaker 4 Skiel says that along the entire hiking trail is the powerful and immense Parvati River.

Speaker 4 It's well accepted that the river tears up bodies and stuff it's never found.

Speaker 4 They talk about this one instant where a bus went off the side of a cliff and the river never gave the bus back or the 50 people that were in it.

Speaker 4 They descend the mountain, scanning on and off the trail.

Speaker 1 A couple hours later, is when we were leapfrogging each other to vantage points, looking down around the river, that's when he spotted his flute.

Speaker 1 We found a bunch of items. There was like a headband he was wearing, and a lighter, and a couple up bits.
It was the only point on the trail that's like knife edge.

Speaker 1 And all it would take is someone behind you to come up and just give you that tiny little nudge. Anyone could have pushed him there.

Speaker 4 October 21st, just after 7 p.m., the only prison guard on duty at the Monty Karam police station allegedly steps outside to use the bathroom.

Speaker 4 When he returns, he discovers Baba Rawat hanging by his cloth doty.

Speaker 4 There's two ways that story ends. He was committed suicide because he was ashamed of what he did.

Speaker 4 Or, you know, maybe the local police were liking off the extra attention that was being bought because of the missing American, and maybe they just, you know,

Speaker 4 kindly strung him up.

Speaker 4 October 23rd, a peculiar update is made to the GoFundMe.

Speaker 4 The porter, Anil Kumar, is now assisting police search teams in the mountains.

Speaker 4 Just a few days later, on October 26th, there is another development that changes things.

Speaker 4 The porter, who until recently had been accompanying a police search team up in the valley, has now been placed under formal arrest and is being held in suspicion of foul play.

Speaker 4 Again, in the most unusual of events, Jonathan Skiels and Susie Reeb are allowed to interrogate the porter.

Speaker 4 Your interrogation of the porter, what was that like?

Speaker 1 That was more of, please tell us, like, clear your conscience kind of thing. Because we didn't really suspect him.

Speaker 1 You know, he was probably just in the wrong place at the wrong time is my conclusion.

Speaker 4 Skiels goes on to tell us that he dismissed Anil Kumar because he didn't speak English and therefore viewed him as illiterate, uneducated, and simple-minded.

Speaker 4 The presumption seems more like prejudice and also doesn't prove Enil Kumar clear of suspicion.

Speaker 4 No, no.

Speaker 1 Maybe you went over a certain social class and I know to speak English.

Speaker 4 Did you get like a guide or anything to help you through there?

Speaker 1 I had at my disposal this

Speaker 1 guy to help out, but I didn't specifically get a guide. No

Speaker 4 preparations are made for a final helicopter trip. This time, a full police team joins Jonathan Skeels, as well as Susie Reeb and a tracker named Tom McElroy.

Speaker 4 We went back with an Indian forensic team that uh was kind of a bit of a chill.

Speaker 1 You know, all the flows off the side of the mountain was starting to freeze over and it was getting cold.

Speaker 1 At that point, they're they're like, well, prime suspect dead.

Speaker 1 The family is accepted that their son is not coming back, so their interest in solving the mystery wanes pretty quickly.

Speaker 4 Days later, a final team hikes to the location where Justin's items were found.

Speaker 4 They hope to uncover more belongings or a body, but they return empty-handed.

Speaker 4 Eventually, Susie Reeb flies home to Oregon. In honor of their missing friend, Jonathan Skeels and Tom McElroy ride Justin's Royal Enfield motorcycle through the Layladock Pass.

Speaker 4 And the porter, Anil Kumar, is released.

Speaker 1 What is the process of even finding someone over there? Because there's... Oh, like if you had the name of a police officer and you wanted to track him down.
Exactly. Oh, no.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 No, you'd have to go to the area, find out who was involved, look at old reports.

Speaker 1 You'd need me, basically.

Speaker 4 I have mixed feelings about this search. On one hand, I'm impressed by Jonathan Skiels.
He sacrificed weeks of his own time and leveraged every resource he could muster to try to find Justin.

Speaker 4 He didn't have any experience in this type of work. He didn't even know Justin that long.
He just wanted to do a good thing.

Speaker 4 Skiels threw his entire being into the effort to influence law enforcement and Indian officials to take action.

Speaker 4 On the other hand, that sort of influence gives me pause.

Speaker 4 Was due diligence conducted to look at this case from all angles? And how many potential leads, like the porter, were glossed over?

Speaker 4 Skiels, who holds all the cards, doesn't share more with us. So for now,

Speaker 4 this is everything we know.

Speaker 4 No problem.

Speaker 1 Have a good one. Thank you.
Yeah, have a good one. Bye.

Speaker 1 Hey, yeah.

Speaker 4 So we're going to have trouble really getting more from him, I think.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 For the next six months, Alex and I continue to research the case, and we keep coming back to the interrogation videos of the porter and the BABA,

Speaker 4 which Skiels claims to have.

Speaker 4 When we last talked, he wasn't prepared to share them with us. But to get any further on this case, I need to know what was said in that room.

Speaker 4 So I come up with a plan and purchase a ticket, determined to change Skiels' mind.

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Speaker 2 Welcome to Carlo.

Speaker 1 Please remain seated with your seatbelt pad until the belt lines turned on and keep you out there.

Speaker 4 Two hours northeast of Cabo San Lucas, I pull into a gravel drive.

Speaker 4 And my host, the long-haired New Zealander Jonathan Skeels, greets me outside.

Speaker 4 I've gotten to know Skiels well since our initial call. But to get to know each other better, we decided to meet up.

Speaker 4 It's happened, happenstance that he's here in La Ventana, Mexico at the same time as someone else I want to meet. So he offered that I could crash his place.

Speaker 4 La Ventana is known as one of the best locations in the world for kite surfing. And in the distance, surfers rip through the blue ocean waves.

Speaker 4 There's a thrill in watching them glide through the air.

Speaker 4 That evening, we head to a sandy bar and mingling around fire pits, I meet a handful of travelers.

Speaker 4 Some who say they're here on vacation and some who, like skiels, are living from moment to moment, drifting through.

Speaker 4 Being here is surreal.

Speaker 4 A place Justin Alexander would likely have visited with the kinds of people he would hang out with, swapping stories or making adventurous plans to spearfish or surf the next day.

Speaker 4 For the first time, I can imagine what it must have been like to be him.

Speaker 11 I mean, motorcycles is what connected all of us, but we weren't really what you'd call motorcycle guys. We were just kind of

Speaker 11 Peter Pan fuck-off sort of guys that wanted to feel freedom.

Speaker 1 And we come to the bottom of the film.

Speaker 4 This is Justin Chatwin.

Speaker 4 He claims to be a full-time drifter. But what he's best known for is his acting work.

Speaker 4 Namely, playing the character Jimmy/slash Steve in the series Shameless.

Speaker 11 This idea of just nomadism, like let's just live for today and wherever we end up tonight, we'll get a hotel and then tomorrow we worry about tomorrow. Yeah.

Speaker 11 And

Speaker 11 we all got caught up in this, what if we never came home?

Speaker 1 I mean, we talked about it, but it wasn't like.

Speaker 11 Well, Johnny, you actually did it. You like never really went home.

Speaker 4 As Chatwin mentioned, he, Skiels, and Justin Alexander connected over their shared love of nomadism and motorcycles.

Speaker 4 Although Skeels and Chatwin stay in touch, they actually haven't seen each other in a while. In fact, the last time they were together was in 2016.

Speaker 4 When they learned Justin Alexander was missing.

Speaker 1 Both of us didn't know him. He was an acquaintance of mine.
He wasn't even a friend.

Speaker 1 Would you call him a friend?

Speaker 11 No. You call him an acquaintance? He was an acquaintance, like a guy I was like, oh, cool.
Definitely possibility of becoming friends.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's true. I would completely agree with that.

Speaker 4 Chatwin says he first crossed paths with Justin Alexander in May 2015 while motorcycling in the Mojave Desert.

Speaker 4 They kept in contact through Instagram and eventually reconnected at a party in Big Sur.

Speaker 11 And he was kind of, he was pretty quiet in crowds. Didn't say much, but but really good one-on-one.

Speaker 1 And the ladies loved him.

Speaker 11 And the ladies loved him.

Speaker 4 After that party, Chatwin remembers leaving with Justin.

Speaker 11 We got gassed together, and then I said, see you later. And when I left, I felt really sad.
I don't know, I felt, it was almost like I felt sorry for him.

Speaker 11 Like I felt like he was really lonely and wanting companionship and wanting a friend.

Speaker 1 And that was the last time you saw him?

Speaker 11 I think that was the last time I saw him.

Speaker 11 Yeah, it was like looking forward to getting to know know him more, but hung out with him maybe four times.

Speaker 1 Maybe once. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 people often ask me why I went. You know, why did I drop everything to go do it? Because I met him that one night.

Speaker 1 That's the only time I ever met him. I hadn't had the deep conversations like Justin had, but I had observed the nature of the man.

Speaker 1 I was impressed.

Speaker 1 And so, yeah,

Speaker 1 I decided that I'd be disappointed in myself if

Speaker 1 I didn't go.

Speaker 11 It just didn't seem very dangerous to me until

Speaker 11 Johnny got there and kind of he texted me like a few

Speaker 11 things.

Speaker 11 You sounded traumatized.

Speaker 1 Oh, really?

Speaker 11 And dark. And I was like, oh, this is serious.

Speaker 1 It's all a bit of a blur. I mean, those days were pretty intense, that first couple months in India.

Speaker 1 I was always getting the half-truths out of Linda, and then had one epic blow up with her: like, Linda, I need all the information this time, not just the parts that you want me to hear, because I'm out here going in front of the police.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 if it turns out that you know something ill-toward was going on, they could put me in jail.

Speaker 11 And then, so, what did she give you?

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 for for a long time she held out that he was carrying these vials of LSD.

Speaker 4 Justin's father also mentioned the LSD vials, but this knowledge was never shared with the police or media.

Speaker 4 What was reported is that Justin had two backpacks. One which he took on the trek and is missing.
The other was found at a guesthouse in Kalga.

Speaker 11 What was in the bag?

Speaker 1 Well, so in his bag was just like regular little bits of clothes, like his, you know, medical kit, survival stuff, his passport and his credit card.

Speaker 1 And before I even got there, I was in contact with Chris and, you know, Chris cryptically told me that there was like a kilo of hash in his bag.

Speaker 4 A kilo of hash is 2.2 pounds.

Speaker 4 That's a significant amount.

Speaker 1 And I told him, you got to get rid of that because that would have immediately become the focus. And I needed the full support of the local police in conducting the search, so I told Chris, I said,

Speaker 1 just make that disappear.

Speaker 4 But was he, Justin wasn't short on money, was he?

Speaker 1 He wasn't flush. So I don't think he was trafficking.
I think he had purchased advantageously and was, you know, selling it to other travelers just to fund his travels.

Speaker 11 What do you think he was selling, huh?

Speaker 1 Well, he reportedly had two vials of LSD and one had dried up. And he was upset about that.
And then he had like 120 tabs of Viagra.

Speaker 4 Justin wrote online that he planned to travel more after India and possibly the rest of 2016.

Speaker 4 So carrying medical supplies in bulk wouldn't be unusual.

Speaker 4 But 120 pills of Viagra?

Speaker 4 That's a striking number.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I question why he had it. I mean, you know, maybe he was selling that too.
I don't know.

Speaker 11 I don't know. I've traveled a lot and I've always said if you're looking for trouble and you're mixing in kind of darker worlds, you're going to find it.

Speaker 11 And it just sounds like that whole drug culture

Speaker 11 in India, it just seemed shady.

Speaker 1 99.9% of the people that go to the valley as drug tourists aren't doing what he did.

Speaker 1 He was really testing his physical skills. It wasn't all about a drug trip.

Speaker 4 These two debate theories for what feels like hours, and I take a step back to just listen, as Skiels seems to be revealing details that he hadn't previously shared with me.

Speaker 4 It's then that Chatwin asks Skiels his thoughts on what really happened.

Speaker 4 And I'm left stunned.

Speaker 1 I'm confident that he's murdered. What's that? I'm pretty confident he was murdered.

Speaker 4 The reason of why

Speaker 4 is what kind of gets me.

Speaker 1 Well, okay, so this barber probably lived on

Speaker 1 like $100 a month.

Speaker 1 He's got a phone, he's got maybe some other valuables.

Speaker 4 But why just in that? Like, you could pick an easier target.

Speaker 1 The weakest link could have killed Goliath on this corner.

Speaker 1 It's just the one place where you could be walking behind someone and you just tap them and they would have gone right over and not been able to self-arrest.

Speaker 1 And when the barber is questioned, he wouldn't have one story and change the story or get back and not report the fact that the guy was missing, right?

Speaker 11 Maybe they're afraid that they'll be blamed for his murder.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I didn't necessarily consider that just because of how shifty the guy was.

Speaker 11 The guy getting hung out of nowhere in the jail cell

Speaker 11 makes you go, there's something else. There's something like that's what makes me go, yeah, maybe there is something more.

Speaker 11 Did you guys interview other Babas that knew him?

Speaker 1 Yeah. That Baba? Yeah, everyone spoke badly about him.
He was the bad Baba.

Speaker 11 Why would Justin pick that Baba to go in the mountains with?

Speaker 1 It was the guy that he had struck up a relationship with.

Speaker 4 Trusting the wrong people?

Speaker 1 Yeah, trusting the wrong people again.

Speaker 4 I don't dismiss dismiss Skiels' theory. His assessment is the closest thing we have to a possible motive for murder.
The problem is, as Chatwin just demonstrated, it can be easily challenged.

Speaker 4 In an attempt to open the conversation and try to hear their thoughts on other scenarios, I ask if either of them believes Justin could still be alive.

Speaker 11 I mean, one of the hashtags that he used a lot was live your legend, you know?

Speaker 11 The whole thing of creating your own legend is uh

Speaker 11 definitely something that he was he wouldn't have done to his mother he had such a tight connection with his mother but haven't you ever had that thought of just what if i just could get away from everyone and everything

Speaker 11 and just one day just start over as a new person without all my old shame and old feelings and just recreate myself i fucking have had that thought

Speaker 11 What if you actually did it?

Speaker 11 I don't know, more and more it just seems like a bit of a story of drug addiction gone bad. But I don't mean just drug addiction.
I mean like addiction to escape, addiction to fantasy,

Speaker 11 not wanting to feel your pain, not wanting to be who

Speaker 1 you are.

Speaker 11 And Instagram provides a perfect platform for the whole world to do that.

Speaker 11 And then you can trick the whole world into thinking you're somebody you're not.

Speaker 11 And then all of a sudden, you wake up one day and you're like, who's this character I've been playing? And I relate to that because I'm an actor.

Speaker 11 I put on roles sometimes, and I'm like, why am I feeling all these feelings?

Speaker 11 I mean, in a way, we all play parts.

Speaker 11 And eventually, it's really easy to get caught up in fantasy. And I think that's a form of

Speaker 11 addiction. And if you're constantly needing things outside yourself to be okay,

Speaker 11 you can

Speaker 11 get into a little bit of trouble.

Speaker 11 I think the thing that we all have in common is that we all are kind of discontent with the lives that we live and the world we live in, and we want something more.

Speaker 11 So we look outside into the world of being like, well, maybe

Speaker 11 Buddhism works, or maybe living in India for a bit will work, or, you know, maybe if I become a kite surfer in La Ventana, you know, maybe that's it. So we're curious, and you seek, and

Speaker 11 there is a really amazing element of Justin that was that side too. He was just trying to be a better man.
Yeah.

Speaker 11 What do you think?

Speaker 4 What do I think?

Speaker 4 To be honest, I really don't know.

Speaker 4 When I look at the facts, this is what I'm certain of.

Speaker 4 Justin was hiking down from Montalay Lake in early September with Babara Watt and Anil Kumar.

Speaker 4 On his way down, he passed by a group of hikers who took a photo with him.

Speaker 4 His two LSD vials, iPhone, and hiking backpack were never recovered. In the backpack that was found, he had a kilo of hash and 120 tabs of IAGRA.

Speaker 4 and his flute, butane lighter, backpack raincover, headband, scarf, and umbrella were found off the side of the hiking trail.

Speaker 4 To make any conclusion, I need more evidence. And the only person I know who has some

Speaker 4 I happen to be rooming with.

Speaker 4 Alright, so I know, I know,

Speaker 4 I know what you said before was like, your theory was that like

Speaker 4 they killed me because of the stuff.

Speaker 4 I returned with Jonathan Skeels to his Laventana apartment. I understand like that could be a

Speaker 4 We continue to talk possibilities, and to heat up the debate, I poke holes at his murder theory.

Speaker 4 Eventually, To prove with certainty that Justin was murdered, Skiels offers to show me what I've been looking for.

Speaker 1 Such a remote, wide place. Well, these were trekking trails.
It was one trail up, one trail down. Yeah, right, beside a river.
It's a glacier-fed river. It's called the Pinpivali Trail.

Speaker 4 He opens his laptop, and within a drop box close to a terabyte in size, are all the photos and videos from the 2016 search,

Speaker 4 including

Speaker 4 the interrogations.

Speaker 4 next time on status untraced. I saw the flute!

Speaker 1 Flute, flute!

Speaker 4 Yes!

Speaker 4 Oh my god!

Speaker 4 So, this is what I spotted here.

Speaker 4 I see the flute of the guy who is missing.

Speaker 4 Oh god, this is the flute, right?

Speaker 1 It looks like it.

Speaker 1 It looks fresh.

Speaker 1 You can take out

Speaker 4 Oh, shit!

Speaker 4 If you have tips or information on the individuals in this podcast that you'd like to share, please email us at status untraced at gmail.com or leave us a message at 507-407-2833.

Speaker 4 Status Untraced is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. I'm your host, Liam Luxon.
Executive producers are Alex Vespested, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay.

Speaker 4 Producers are Meredith Stedman and myself. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan.
Consulting producer, Jonathan Skeels.

Speaker 4 Associate editors are David Bash and Charles Rosner of GetUp Productions, with additional editing by Sidney Evans.

Speaker 4 Artwork by Trevor Eiler. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set.
Our theme song is Colder Heavens by Blanco Blanco White. Mix by Cooper Skinner.

Speaker 4 Voice acting provided by Johnny Lavale and Teodora Rummel.

Speaker 4 Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group.

Speaker 4 As we've unlocked new photos and videos from the search for Justin Alexander, be sure to check out our Instagram at StatusUntraced, where we'll be sharing some of that exclusive content.

Speaker 12 Every story has layers, and sometimes the truth hides in plain sight. I'm Josh Dean, host of Chameleon, the podcast about people who transform, deceive, and survive.

Speaker 12 From con artists to unbelievable yet true occurrences, we dive into stories where nothing is ever quite as it seems. Because to understand the world, you sometimes have to change the way you see it.

Speaker 4 Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.