8 | Back To Nome

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Speaker 15 Going into this season, I told myself I need to step out of my comfort zone and do whatever I can within my legal and own moral bounds to help find the truth about what happened to Florence Akpialik.

Speaker 8 All Rhodes led to a man with the nickname Oregon John.

Speaker 18 He's got a very bad rap sheet, charges that include assault, sexual assault, and cruelty to animals.

Speaker 8 And as far as we know, Oregon John is the last person to have seen Flo alive.

Speaker 20 In an effort to find the truth, I catfished Oregon John on Facebook, pretending to be someone else.

Speaker 8 Our conversations on Facebook Messenger eventually led to an in-person meeting at a bar in Ketchikan, Alaska. I met John face to face and pretended I was somebody else.

Speaker 8 And over the course of about two hours, we learned details that in my mind seemed to paint John as an even more suspicious character.

Speaker 16 He had a bad answer for everything.

Speaker 8 In his own tall tales about how Flo was murdered, by another man and put inside a barrel under a meth dealer's house in Nome.

Speaker 8 Was John actually telling the truth?

Speaker 8 If he was, he made no effort in telling the authorities this, something pretty basic to do, especially if you're considered a suspect.

Speaker 11 Instead, Oregon John fled Nome, and he's never stepped foot back there.

Speaker 17 Upon meeting John in person, arguably my biggest fear in the moment was whether or not John believed me.

Speaker 8 On more than one occasion, During our conversation at the Ketchikam bar, John mentioned that a podcaster was investigating Flo's case.

Speaker 12 I'm pretty sure he's talking about Up and Vanished.

Speaker 8 Through my own deductive reasoning, I surmised that Kelly, not her real name, the woman who had texted people about Flo's murder, had somehow relayed to John that this podcast existed.

Speaker 8 It's my belief that John was likely made aware of this podcast the day before I met him, but he didn't do his research.

Speaker 20 And though admittedly he was a little dubious about who I really was, he had already taken the bait.

Speaker 8 Had he simply googled up and vanished, he would have seen my face immediately. And I doubt our bar meeting would have ever even happened.

Speaker 19 But it did.

Speaker 10 And I think that in that moment, John fully believed that I was who I said I was.

Speaker 8 But the whole thing is a complex mind game.

Speaker 16 But Porte wants to like play with fire.

Speaker 18 There's no rulebook for this.

Speaker 16 There's no blueprint for how long I keep this ruse going.

Speaker 17 Did he know who I really was?

Speaker 8 And just met me to try to discreetly clear his name?

Speaker 21 Well, if he did, he failed.

Speaker 4 And none of what he said seemed to redeem his character at all.

Speaker 8 I tend to believe John may have had his suspicions about me, but his own narcissism got in the way.

Speaker 10 And on the off chance that I was in fact this podcaster, he probably believed he could talk his way out of this.

Speaker 27 But he failed.

Speaker 12 Instead, he walked into my trap and he exposed his true character.

Speaker 28 The clock is ticking because sooner or later, just about anyone can figure out that I'm doing a podcast about this case. Is there value in seeing how he reacts when I tell him that I tricked him?

Speaker 1 There's a little bit of a danger element there I'm kind of worried about, to be honest.

Speaker 22 What are my options here?

Speaker 8 I can keep playing along as this catfish, but for how long?

Speaker 6 Maybe he smartens up,

Speaker 26 Or maybe he just shows us his true fucking colors.

Speaker 26 I almost want to take a bolder stance here.

Speaker 8 It's just unknown territory.

Speaker 28 But if I just pull the cat out of the bag in front of him, this guy is the biggest, most annoying enigma.

Speaker 9 Do I push Oregon John even further?

Speaker 4 Do I continue catfishing him?

Speaker 21 Or do I tell him who I really am?

Speaker 28 If this guy became convinced that he was going down,

Speaker 16 I think he'd feel very threatened by that.

Speaker 26 That shit is concerning.

Speaker 25 I went two months with no contact.

Speaker 30 Then I opened up my fake Facebook account and took another shot in the dark.

Speaker 8 He hadn't messaged me in two months either.

Speaker 6 What does that mean exactly?

Speaker 8 I took Andy's advice and I messaged him again as this fake person.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 13 here goes nothing.

Speaker 14 I said, I looked up that missing girl on Google, and it says they didn't find her yet.

Speaker 23 Did the FBI keep it a secret?

Speaker 32 He read it.

Speaker 13 He's online right now.

Speaker 25 And in no time at all, he read it.

Speaker 13 He's typing.

Speaker 16 He simply said,

Speaker 8 I don't know.

Speaker 14 Well, okay.

Speaker 24 Now, what do I say?

Speaker 8 I replied and said, I feel like the known PD is in on it or something.

Speaker 16 I couldn't find anything about the barrel they found under the house.

Speaker 9 Are they the ones who found that?

Speaker 20 He read it, but didn't respond.

Speaker 14 I said, What you think?

Speaker 24 Read it, no response.

Speaker 8 Feels like the tone is changing a bit.

Speaker 9 I sent him a GIF.

Speaker 21 It's a black and white video of a kid from what looks like a 1940s movie just tapping his fingers, waiting.

Speaker 24 No response.

Speaker 22 Well, this is going nowhere.

Speaker 8 Let me send him a screenshot of one of Kelly's messages that mentions his name.

Speaker 14 He read it.

Speaker 24 Now my messages aren't going through.

Speaker 16 He blocked me.

Speaker 16 Classic.

Speaker 12 In Nome, Alaska, there's a long history of mysterious disappearances, unlike any other place I've seen.

Speaker 8 Statistically, an anomaly.

Speaker 12 In 2016, four years before Flo went missing, 36-year-old Joseph Balderis also vanished in Nome.

Speaker 8 And eight years later, his case remains unsolved.

Speaker 8 Next to almost every missing poster for Florence in Nome is also Joseph Balderis.

Speaker 23 Two unsolved cases that continue to haunt this place.

Speaker 8 Andy Clamser, the private investigator, has spent years looking into this case.

Speaker 34 One of Joseph's friends contacted me early on.

Speaker 34 Everybody was pretty consistent about what they said about Joseph.

Speaker 34 They described him as a very charismatic,

Speaker 34 smart

Speaker 34 guy who loved Alaska and had, you know, a lot of plans for the future. had met this woman and Juno, Megan Ryder.
They were planning to get married.

Speaker 34 He had spent several years working as a law clerk to judges, and he was ready to transition from that kind of work into a law practice.

Speaker 34 So he was going to open a practice in Juneau, and he and Megan were going to get married.

Speaker 34 There was, you know, nothing negative that I found in in researching Joseph, nothing that, you know, raised red flags for me. He just seemed like a super nice guy that everybody liked,

Speaker 34 a guy with a lot of plans and, you know, a lot of stuff going on.

Speaker 34 You're dealing with basically a successful professional person who just vanishes.

Speaker 34 After talking to friends of Joseph's,

Speaker 34 it wasn't making sense.

Speaker 34 His fiancé was alarmed right away.

Speaker 34 His usual practice was to stay in touch with her multiple times a day.

Speaker 34 Joseph wasn't responding to anything, and nobody had seen him other than the roommate.

Speaker 34 So for him to not respond to her messages was very unusual.

Speaker 8 On June 26, 2016, 36-year-old Joseph Balderis dropped off the grid entirely, and he's never been seen since then.

Speaker 8 Right up until his disappearance, He had been communicating with his fiancée Megan, who was staying in Juneau, Alaska.

Speaker 9 Joseph had informed his fiancée via text on WhatsApp that he was driving out of town to go fishing.

Speaker 8 And since that moment, on June 26, 2016, Joseph has never responded or read any more incoming messages.

Speaker 20 Two days later, on Monday, June 27th, Joseph didn't show up for work, and his co-workers began looking for him.

Speaker 22 Eventually, Joseph's truck was found 44 miles outside of town, parked in a strange position on the side of the road.

Speaker 8 No sign of Joseph Joseph anywhere, nor his wallet, backpack, or cell phone. These items have also never been found.

Speaker 15 His truck was found parked backed into a pullout.

Speaker 34 It became a very big deal in Nome quickly.

Speaker 8 Joseph's family made the trip to Nome from Lubbock, Texas.

Speaker 16 They launched the largest search effort in Nome's history.

Speaker 34 Helicopters and airplanes. I think they had the Coast Guard helping.

Speaker 15 They had helicopters, ATVs, and cadaver dogs.

Speaker 9 And after weeks of searching, they found absolutely nothing.

Speaker 34 The state's conclusion he had been attacked by a bear or had some kind of accident, and they just didn't find the body.

Speaker 8 Very early on in the investigation, the Alaska state troopers seemed to believe that Joseph had fallen victim to a bear attack.

Speaker 8 Given the fact that bears do exist in Alaska, especially in the sub-Arctic region, this is certainly one possibility.

Speaker 8 But by the river, where Joseph would have been fishing, there was no trace of anything.

Speaker 20 No signs of a struggle, no pieces of clothing, no blood, paw marks.

Speaker 8 If Joseph was killed by a bear in this area, then where is anything?

Speaker 11 Did the bear eat his shoes and his cell phone?

Speaker 8 It's just plain odd.

Speaker 34 So there's various possibilities, and it is possible that something happened, that he was running out there and he had an accident and they just didn't find him.

Speaker 34 It's possible that a grizzly bear attacked him and cashed the body, but it's really unusual to not find the body, especially since they had a half dozen different teams of tracking dogs out there.

Speaker 34 That would have been, you know, if he got attacked by a bear, that would have been super messy. You'd think that the dogs would have found that.
And bears don't eat backpacks.

Speaker 15 This didn't sit well with the family or Andy Clamser.

Speaker 34 Those pieces weren't fitting together.

Speaker 34 That scenario that he was attacked by a bear, somehow the body was hidden, that just seemed unlikely. And so it was worth looking into.

Speaker 34 The more you look into it,

Speaker 34 the more unanswered questions and red flags there were.

Speaker 34 There's some very suspicious things.

Speaker 20 Joseph.

Speaker 6 lived with a roommate in town who was a lot younger than him.

Speaker 34 They were just thrown thrown together. They didn't know each other.
They were roommates, but they really didn't communicate. Joseph was older and they really didn't seem to have a lot in common.

Speaker 34 So they would say hi in passing, but they didn't share personal details of their life. They didn't socialize together.
There's other things that point in another direction.

Speaker 34 The roommate

Speaker 34 had lied about his whereabouts on Saturday night,

Speaker 34 had texted his friends trying to create an alibi.

Speaker 34 He had very inconsistent statements about what he was doing Friday night, Saturday night, and with whom.

Speaker 34 Lied to the troopers and tried to get his friends to create an alibi for him.

Speaker 11 When you look beyond the surface, Joseph's case starts to become very strange.

Speaker 8 His roommate is also the only person who claims to have seen Joseph that Sunday, nearly 24 hours after he stopped responding.

Speaker 22 The roommate claims that he saw Joseph at his house, 44 miles back in town, not where his truck was found.

Speaker 8 So that would mean Joseph went fishing on Saturday after he texted his fiancé, then went back to his house in Nome, went to sleep, then left again to go back out there on Sunday afternoon.

Speaker 6 In the whole time, he never opened or read the last messages from his fiancée.

Speaker 27 That's pretty weird.

Speaker 34 The troopers now have a new missing persons website set up for the state. Joseph Balderas is listed in the category of missing and presumed accidental death.

Speaker 34 He's not in the category of missing under suspicious circumstances.

Speaker 34 I don't know how you could possibly not say this is a missing person under suspicious circumstances.

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Speaker 8 It was starting to feel like my investigation into Flo's disappearance was now dovetailing into the disappearance of Joseph Balderis.

Speaker 8 Noam is tiny.

Speaker 24 The same police force, the same investigators, the same court system, and potentially the same pool of suspects in a murder case.

Speaker 23 my producer Mike and I flew to Lubbock, Texas to meet Joseph's mother and his sister, Selena.

Speaker 13 It's so much longer now, yes.

Speaker 1 Hi, how are you?

Speaker 38 So, Florence, I don't even know her, but some of her family members have reached out and have told me how they feel and how we connected like that.

Speaker 38 I remember every time we'd put Joseph's missing persons up, she was right there.

Speaker 38 Remember how they found her stuff outside his tent? Yeah, the guy that supposedly she drove off on the ATV, right? He talked to him. He catfished him.
You know what catfish means? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 39 And you're somebody else.

Speaker 13 Yeah, it's the craziest thing we've ever done.

Speaker 38 He pretended he was a young hot lady.

Speaker 40 He just started talking to me.

Speaker 39 Somebody did harm to him.

Speaker 39 It wasn't a fair.

Speaker 39 He didn't get lost. He didn't just go off.

Speaker 14 Somebody did harm to him.

Speaker 39 That's all I can think of.

Speaker 39 The time Joseph went missing, there was a wedding and there was a lot of traffic there.

Speaker 39 Sometimes I think, what if it was a party, it was a wedding.

Speaker 39 Sometimes I feel like maybe it was just an accident maybe it was somebody was drunk after a big party wedding and all that somebody might have hit him and got so scared that they just picked him up and put him somewhere else but actually i feel like somebody was

Speaker 39 just single Okay,

Speaker 39 they all used to go to the bars and stuff. Things happen.

Speaker 39 I know my son, you know,

Speaker 39 but something might have happened that somebody maybe was jealous of him if he went with one of his girlfriends or right, you know.

Speaker 1 We came back without my son.

Speaker 1 I went in there crying, left crying, you know. It was just sad because

Speaker 1 we came back without my son, without any answers, not a hint about what could have happened to him.

Speaker 39 I mean, he's a family man. He would always call.
He's a family man and he was always calling us and he would not commit suicide.

Speaker 33 I want you to find him

Speaker 1 every night, every morning,

Speaker 1 every day.

Speaker 1 Because you think of all these scenarios that might have happened to him. And then you think back, I should have been stronger.

Speaker 14 I should have said,

Speaker 1 we need to find out what

Speaker 14 happened to him, who did this to him.

Speaker 18 Why did they do it to him?

Speaker 40 I just want answers.

Speaker 1 They can have the reward. I don't care.

Speaker 38 I barely even watch TV.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 38 Unless it's like cartoons or something with my kids. It was my first time listening to a podcast, which was your podcast.

Speaker 38 We didn't want to do anything that people are just gonna put a story out there and make money in it. We had a lot of people coming to us in the beginning, a lot.

Speaker 38 You actually go, you actually look for answers, so that is the only reason why we decided to do this podcast.

Speaker 38 I want to find my brother.

Speaker 38 I know he's murdered. I know he is.

Speaker 38 I know a lot of people know what happened to him.

Speaker 38 Everybody's scared of law enforcement.

Speaker 38 They do away with people all the time.

Speaker 38 There's so many missing people in Nome.

Speaker 38 And it's easy to say Alaska is a very scary place. If you get lost, things can happen.
The bears got them.

Speaker 38 I do not think at all that Joseph's death was an accident.

Speaker 38 No, that he was murdered.

Speaker 38 Why did they not look into

Speaker 38 There was a very extensive search where his truck was, to me, planted.

Speaker 38 But nothing else was looked into.

Speaker 38 It sounds terrible.

Speaker 38 Sometimes I feel like

Speaker 38 law enforcement knows what happened.

Speaker 13 Why would they not be telling you?

Speaker 38 They don't want to step on anybody's toes either.

Speaker 38 Sometimes I feel like some of the troopers did think that he was murdered.

Speaker 38 Are they really going to put in the resources to look into this?

Speaker 38 Seems like nothing is really done.

Speaker 38 If you don't press and press and press and fight for them to look into something, they won't look into it.

Speaker 14 We don't even call anymore

Speaker 38 because there's always nothing.

Speaker 1 It's very terrible and I feel bad because I love my brother so much.

Speaker 1 For a while there really was hard to live life.

Speaker 38 It was just constantly in your mind, and you just feel so guilty

Speaker 38 that you know that something happened to him, and there's nothing we can do.

Speaker 1 We can't find him.

Speaker 1 We've gone to the governor, we've talked to the FBI, we've gone everywhere, we've talked to representatives, we've done so many things, and it's always a dead end.

Speaker 1 My mom cries for my brother every single day.

Speaker 38 I do feel like all the answers are there, but we don't know how to find them. We need somebody like you guys to put the pieces together.

Speaker 9 Because Joseph's truck was found 44 miles outside the Nome City limit, this jurisdiction belongs to the Alaska State Troopers.

Speaker 8 They're in charge of the investigation.

Speaker 11 Joseph's mother and his sister seem concerned the Alaska State Troopers weren't following up on obvious leads here.

Speaker 8 Leads that may suggest a homicide.

Speaker 19 They felt helpless, to the point they don't even call them anymore.

Speaker 11 So what is actually going on here?

Speaker 6 Is there any investigating at all?

Speaker 8 Fingers crossed, they're nothing like the Nome PD.

Speaker 16 We were back in Nome again, and I stopped by the local Alaska State Trooper's office.

Speaker 34 Fucking hours till 4.

Speaker 13 You're kidding me. What time is it?

Speaker 34 Is it 4?

Speaker 25 It's 4:30.

Speaker 35 That sucks.

Speaker 20 I've seen enough peculiarities in this case that warranted further exploration.

Speaker 8 What's the status of the case now?

Speaker 13 Hey, is Sergeant Cross in today?

Speaker 42 No, he retired.

Speaker 15 Oh, we knew it was one or the other.

Speaker 16 Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he retired, retired, ah, what, 2018, 2019? Okay.

Speaker 13 Is anyone left on the force that was a part of the searches for Joseph Balderas?

Speaker 42 Well, I was working here at that time, but I wasn't involved in that. I was doing other cases.
Okay.

Speaker 13 Do you know of any people on the force who were working?

Speaker 42 The case officer, he quit, so he moved to the Midwest, and

Speaker 42 everybody else transferred out.

Speaker 13 What is the trooper's affiliation with the case now? You guys handle the case or

Speaker 1 I don't know what you mean.

Speaker 18 Investigate it?

Speaker 18 Well,

Speaker 42 yes. I mean, it's our case to begin with, so if we have any new information or new leads, we'd investigate those.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 13 Um, I guess who from the troopers here in Nome could speak to us or journalists from Atlanta about Balder's case?

Speaker 42 Um, I mean, I guess I I'm not sure.

Speaker 42 I mean, any one trooper could talk to you, but I don't know how productive that would be.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean?

Speaker 42 We're not...

Speaker 42 I don't even... I remember it happening, but I don't...
I wasn't paying attention because I was strictly involved with investigating other cases.

Speaker 13 Sure, but I mean more so, like, any notes that were taken down about where you guys actually searched back then. And if it's still the trooper's case, I'd love to speak to someone who could.

Speaker 15 Do you have like a card or something?

Speaker 1 Yeah, the card? Yeah. Yeah.
Oh.

Speaker 1 Cool.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Um,

Speaker 42 I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 I don't know how much how

Speaker 42 much of a quality interview any of us would get, really.

Speaker 13 I mean, I'm assuming that when it happened, even though those guys are retired or move on to other places now, when the searches were being conducted, somebody put down information somewhere.

Speaker 42 It's all in the police report, yeah.

Speaker 35 I mean, it's a pretty big police report.

Speaker 42 I mean, it's thick.

Speaker 13 Yeah, I'd love to

Speaker 13 discuss that. The actual police report on justice.

Speaker 1 Okay, well.

Speaker 1 Hmm. I guess.

Speaker 42 I guess a FOIA request would be a good start, wouldn't it?

Speaker 1 Otherwise, I...

Speaker 42 You know what I mean?

Speaker 13 Yeah, we could do it that way, but if we were here already, I'd love to just be able to do it here.

Speaker 13 Given that this is the agency technically in charge, if there was new information coming in, just to speak to what is happening today or what happens next here.

Speaker 42 Um yeah, I kind of see where you're going.

Speaker 1 Hmm.

Speaker 1 Hmm.

Speaker 42 Yeah, I can um

Speaker 42 I can see what I can do and give you guys a call. How long are you in town for?

Speaker 13 We're leaving tomorrow night. Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 42 Um well I can since I have your handy dandy business card

Speaker 42 I can figure out so you just want to speak to you just want to talk about like the investigation what happened back then,

Speaker 42 and then what's happening now in regards to it?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 13 Is there like a particular agent who is in charge of this case now?

Speaker 42 There's no case officer anymore, really. I mean, it kind of depends.
If a call comes in and someone has information, then

Speaker 42 it would usually come either well depends on who gets it. I mean, and then we would follow up on the the information that's provided.

Speaker 42 You know, if they say, oh, this person was talking about it, it and they live in Nome, then we would track down that person and interview them. But

Speaker 42 if somebody says something happened in Anchorage or then it would be an Anchorage trooper that would track down those people and interview them. So there's really no case officer per se anymore.

Speaker 1 Okay, okay, gotcha.

Speaker 42 So yeah, it's not like one trooper, one investigator type of thing.

Speaker 1 Okay, gotcha. So what brought this on so many years later?

Speaker 13 So we have a podcast called Up and Vanished. It's an investigative podcast.
We look into missing persons cases. cases.

Speaker 13 Either way, we're doing our own investigation, and we would love to be able to have that report with you guys anyways.

Speaker 42 Oh, yeah, if you find something out, I'm kind of curious.

Speaker 13 How many troopers are at this office?

Speaker 42 Right now, I have there's

Speaker 42 a drug sergeant, a drug investigator, four troopers, and a sergeant.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 13 So there really isn't an investigator here for cases like that?

Speaker 39 No.

Speaker 35 Okay. Interesting.

Speaker 42 No, we just don't have the people or the housing.

Speaker 13 Which is one more reason we should be friends then.

Speaker 42 I think

Speaker 42 they're working on it, but right at this point, it's just troopers and a sergeant.

Speaker 42 Now, what is your podcast called?

Speaker 13 It's called Up and Vanished.

Speaker 15 Up and Vanished.

Speaker 13 We'll be around a lot this summer.

Speaker 13 Dig up some new information. We have some good shot in the dark leads.

Speaker 42 Yeah, we're all the conspiracy theories.

Speaker 1 Of course, all that

Speaker 42 and so I'm kind of curious I've heard all kinds of stories or theories about what could have happened to him some are really entertaining

Speaker 42 did you have you heard about the the alternate dimension that opens up in that area at a certain time and that he's in there oh that one I've not heard yet yeah I heard that one and that stuck in my mind because wow

Speaker 42 that's pretty interesting because I've driven around there a lot.

Speaker 13 Has never happened to you?

Speaker 1 No, I've never gone alternate dimension at all.

Speaker 15 So

Speaker 42 I feel a little left out. I mean, you should drive out there.

Speaker 1 Just, you know, walk around.

Speaker 42 Well, if you don't come back, don't go into the alternate dimension.

Speaker 1 But yeah, you guys should definitely go out there.

Speaker 42 I mean, no one really understands until you're out there walking around.

Speaker 42 Well, if you miss your plane tomorrow and you don't return the rental car, then we'll hear about it.

Speaker 13 I'm sure you will.

Speaker 1 Yeah, sure.

Speaker 42 And I'll know exactly where to go find you. Will you, though?

Speaker 42 Well, of course.

Speaker 13 How fast could you find me?

Speaker 1 Depends on, well, what happens.

Speaker 42 I mean, if you decide to go give a bear a hug, I probably won't find you. The whole digestive process and all of that.

Speaker 13 Wouldn't they leave little bits and pieces somewhere or just, you know.

Speaker 42 Maybe. I mean, because they do drag them off and, like, stuff them places and then go back and feed.
That's what I understand. I don't know.
I'm not a wildlife trooper, so I don't really know all that

Speaker 42 wildlife stuff.

Speaker 1 But so, yeah, just be careful. Okay, I will.
Okay. All right.

Speaker 15 Well, thank you again.

Speaker 1 Hey, no problem.

Speaker 43 You guys have a good day.

Speaker 44 Appreciate it. Thanks so much for the day.

Speaker 2 Nice to meet you.

Speaker 24 It didn't appear there was anything active about the investigation at all, at least by the state troopers and GNOME.

Speaker 6 But this is a state agency, meaning other people oversee them.

Speaker 11 I went to the Alaska State Troopers website.

Speaker 8 and found this case in the state database.

Speaker 8 On its missing person flyer is a contact number for something called the Missing Missing Persons Clearinghouse, a division of the Alaska state government that apparently oversees all missing persons cases led by the troopers.

Speaker 8 I arranged an in-person on-the-record meeting at the state trooper's main office

Speaker 12 specifically to discuss Joseph's case.

Speaker 44 So we just want to set up some ground rules here.

Speaker 44 I understand you guys are running a few minutes late.

Speaker 43 We still have card stops coming up, so we won't be able to add additional time.

Speaker 44 For Malia is their missing persons clearinghouse coordinator for the state of Alaska. She can talk about the data.

Speaker 43 She can talk about the numbers. She can talk about how the missing persons clearinghouse works.

Speaker 44 She can't talk about specific cases. She's just the data manager.

Speaker 43 She's not the investigator for state trooper missing persons cases.

Speaker 44 Does that all make sense and kind of in line with what you guys were expecting? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Perfect. All right.

Speaker 13 I guess what are you guys asking We have Lawrence Pilock and Joseph Balderis in Noam, Alaska.

Speaker 44 We'd have to do some research.

Speaker 41 Lawrence, though, if that was a Nome Party case, that's a police department case. So there's a

Speaker 16 Joseph, I believe, is state troopers.

Speaker 41 That one is, yes. Yes.
Did you meet with Nome PD at all about her?

Speaker 1 Tried. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I guess they're really busy.

Speaker 13 Yeah. So I know Alaska is obviously an enormous state here.
And

Speaker 13 I think given some of the circumstances of, you know, like just logistically trying to solve a case, you got different departments that help each other out.

Speaker 13 And just on these particular missing persons cases, I noticed that there was a

Speaker 13 like your name was on the file as a contact and said missing persons clearinghouse.

Speaker 1 I was like, okay, well, what actually is that?

Speaker 13 I realized I didn't really know exactly what that term meant and what that department is, I guess, in charge of doing.

Speaker 41 The clearinghouse is like a central repository that tracks all missing person cases across the state regardless of the agency who holds the case. So we just track,

Speaker 41 and I'm sure you found my information on the website, so that's where the list is, that we have it updated every morning at 6 that lists every known reported person that's missing.

Speaker 1 What is the overall mission of the department that you work for?

Speaker 41 It's just keeping the cases active and following up with family and getting dental and DNA records and just making sure that they're still listed as missing and you know

Speaker 41 funnel in any leads that may come in to us to the investigator

Speaker 13 What do you think is the correct path forward into closing cases that have gone cold again and the agency assigned to the cases is swamped with other local issues and may not have the resources to actually actively investigate a case.

Speaker 1 Go ahead.

Speaker 44 So let's try to keep it back to so Malia's position here is not as an investigator, right?

Speaker 44 She is data collector, generates bulletins, keeps the website up to date, collects the dental records, DNA piece.

Speaker 44 She's not in the position to speak about the investigation piece, so we can kind of keep our questions a little bit more on the data piece.

Speaker 13 So I'm just curious, from your perspective, as a resource to the families and everyone else, what do you think is the best path forward when cases stall out like that?

Speaker 13 Or is it just a sit-back and wait game?

Speaker 41 Since I'm not involved in the investigative part, so I mean other than keeping them open and working with families, if we don't have DNA or dental on file, then getting that information uploaded.

Speaker 41 But as far as the investigative side, you know, we have a cold case investigator and we have four now that have been assigned for MMIP.

Speaker 41 So they're actively working on these cases that are older and that have you know working up on new leads if they have any or investigating that side of it but I'm not involved in that

Speaker 13 the person who is in charge of the MMIP cases or just that whole initiative could you just talk about what that is and what that's about

Speaker 41 we have four investigators now that are assigned to it two just came on board they're all retired troopers We have two in Soldotna,

Speaker 41 one is going to be in Palmer, I believe, that just came back, and one in Fairbanks.

Speaker 13 And what is their general role?

Speaker 41 They're retired troopers, so they're investigators. They're actually commissioned troopers.

Speaker 1 For cold cases?

Speaker 1 Yes. Okay.

Speaker 41 So I don't know how they're choosing the cases that they're working on, but they are investigating ones that have gone cold. Okay.
Either missing or murdered people that they know that

Speaker 41 they've found. somebody that's been murdered, but it's a cold case, so they're investigating those as well.

Speaker 13 Do you know, just typically speaking, when a case is usually classified as cold now?

Speaker 1 Is there like a protocol to that?

Speaker 41 Not that I'm aware of.

Speaker 13 Just kind of just circumstantial for each, you know, individualized for each case?

Speaker 41 I mean, there's not like, oh, nothing's happened in 30 days. We're not going to look at it.
So it just probably depends on the leads and

Speaker 41 the evidence they have.

Speaker 13 Some of the cases that I've covered, I've seen a positive response when attention is brought back onto a case, then it's kind of got people talking again.

Speaker 13 Have you seen value in that in some of the cases that you've overseen?

Speaker 41 Yeah, it's always, I mean, I've not really been involved in a lot of ones that have been solved, but that's more been the investigators.

Speaker 41 But there's always, it's always good to get the word out to show that when we do solve a case that, you know, we do care and it's not just forgotten.

Speaker 13 When someone goes missing from a really tiny place in Alaska, which is different than probably most other places in the lower 48,

Speaker 13 do you see like those factors having an impact?

Speaker 41 Not that I've noticed, no. I mean I'm sure that I'm sure

Speaker 41 having limited resources does affect it, but as far as my role,

Speaker 41 I don't not involved in that part of it. So I don't hear about it, I guess I should say.

Speaker 41 That you know, nobody comes to me saying that there's if they need more resources, they can certainly reach out to the troopers to assess, to assist if they're in the area.

Speaker 41 But as far as what I am involved in, I can't really speak to that.

Speaker 15 Okay, so you've never seen that be an issue?

Speaker 41 No.

Speaker 41 And it can be difficult even for our own cases, you know, with weather or, you know,

Speaker 41 can't get into the area. So it can certainly affect those for sure.

Speaker 44 How would you define a cold case?

Speaker 41 I don't know how they classify if they've put in so much resources or anything. I'm not sure.

Speaker 41 We have a classification in our records management system that they can code it as a cold case, but as far as how they determine,

Speaker 41 you know, when it goes cold, I'm not, I can't speak to that. Investigator would determine that.
I don't know if there's a length of time or anything like that, but

Speaker 41 I'm not

Speaker 41 on the investigative side.

Speaker 13 Is it well known that Alaska has more missing people cases per capita than other states in America?

Speaker 41 I've heard that, yes, I believe that.

Speaker 41 Because our population is a lot lower than, we say, like California.

Speaker 13 How many years have you been dealing with the missing persons cases part of this?

Speaker 41 Since February of 2017.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 13 The six years that you've seen all these different missing persons cases entered into the database and you've seen some be cleared, some stay stagnant.

Speaker 13 What's your thoughts on how these things can not go cold like that? What's the trick?

Speaker 41 For having them to not be a cold case?

Speaker 14 Yeah.

Speaker 41 I don't, I guess just to keep it active, but like I said, that would be more of an investigator question.

Speaker 13 I'm sure you've seen some cases be entered and then maybe they're solved kind of relatively quickly and then some kind of stay there.

Speaker 13 And those ones that were solved in the earlier stages and it seems like it just had a resolution, what were the differences in those? You know, is there a pattern that you've seen with that?

Speaker 41 I would have to say probably case-by-case basis. And a lot of the other agencies, I don't necessarily get their reports.
So I just see that they're cleared out,

Speaker 41 but I don't really know the details of it. I would get the message that they were located and so that's when I would know that they were cleared out of the system, that they're no longer missing.

Speaker 41 But it's literally just a terminal message. It doesn't really give any details.

Speaker 41 So

Speaker 41 it doesn't really, you know, it's not, I'm not getting a report from the other agencies every time somebody's entered or removed.

Speaker 35 Right. So

Speaker 13 do you think, in your professional opinion, anything could be improved to up the rate of how many cases in the database are being solved?

Speaker 14 I can't even think of the answer for that.

Speaker 41 I guess just keeping the public aware would be a good one.

Speaker 41 Just any leads that come in.

Speaker 13 Somebody,

Speaker 13 you know, it being on their mind and them saying, hey, I heard this or

Speaker 35 some missing piece or something.

Speaker 41 Do you have anything that you would like to add for that, the media side?

Speaker 44 No, I mean, I'd be happy to, once you're done with Malia,

Speaker 44 talk on background with you guys for a few minutes.

Speaker 43 And then maybe, I'm the spokesperson for the whole department, including the State Troopers API, I may be willing to provide some additional on-the-record commentary about your investigation piece because it seems like that's something you guys are missing.

Speaker 16 I left their office in Anchorage.

Speaker 25 with an overwhelming lack of confidence.

Speaker 8 Investigation?

Speaker 24 What investigation?

Speaker 23 There isn't any, just like Flo's case.

Speaker 8 And hearing the frustration from Joseph's family and their struggle to find answers and what seemed like obvious red flags in this case going completely ignored, I wanted to keep pressing on this.

Speaker 21 Before I knew it, I was basically investigating the case of Joseph Balderis right alongside Florence Lokpialik.

Speaker 18 Two bizarre unsolved disappearances in Noam, Alaska that clearly are not being worked on by the authorities.

Speaker 8 And if you're listening, please feel free to reach out and correct me.

Speaker 19 I won't be holding my breath, though.

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Speaker 48 We'll never forget him.

Speaker 48 It'll hurt the rest of our lives.

Speaker 1 And I hope you get some kind of answers.

Speaker 14 I didn't even know you. I just know your name was Payne.
Pain finds that. Bad start.

Speaker 1 Pain and what was your name? Mike.

Speaker 15 Mike. Mike.

Speaker 1 Threatening sounds.

Speaker 13 I appreciate you guys letting me in at your home and talking to us.

Speaker 1 You made us

Speaker 14 more comfortable than what

Speaker 14 you're doing.

Speaker 38 I'm not good at talking, mother.

Speaker 1 Yes, you are. I know she is.

Speaker 13 The first time I called her, she's been good at talking.

Speaker 38 Oh, because before you guys were coming, I was like, I'll have to go hit Joseph's cabinet because I'm getting an anxiety attack.

Speaker 1 Take a little bit of that off your edge off.

Speaker 38 I saw the fireball.

Speaker 1 I went like this real quick.

Speaker 1 Oh, we see her though.

Speaker 38 I don't know why. Before, I never would be nervous.
I felt like I could talk all the time. And now I just...

Speaker 4 I was nervous, too.

Speaker 15 Since day one, nearly eight years ago now.

Speaker 8 Joseph's friends and his family have put together their own investigation.

Speaker 8 Andy Clamser himself has interviewed dozens of people, and his sister, Selena, and mother, Hilda, have kept meticulous records of every single finding in this case.

Speaker 8 With all this information, I was starting to become convinced that somewhere in here lies the answer.

Speaker 38 Mama, you have Joseph's bank account statements?

Speaker 13 That would tell us if it's dead or not.

Speaker 42 He was trying to save up to open up his own practice of whatever.

Speaker 1 As you see, there's no 550 though.

Speaker 13 It's amazing how well you guys have kept up with all this stuff.

Speaker 13 Really.

Speaker 39 There were two credit cards.

Speaker 48 This is what this is.

Speaker 42 And of course, they couldn't give me too much information.

Speaker 14 But they felt bad for her, and they gave her a little more than what they were supposed to.

Speaker 8 I first checked the bank statements starting. in May 2016, roughly two months before he went missing on June 26.

Speaker 4 For the most most part, everything seemed pretty normal.

Speaker 20 He wasn't really a big spender.

Speaker 38 So mom called the credit card company. Whenever she first called, you had to get a death certificate, so we had to go through that whole process.
And then she was able to obtain those.

Speaker 20 His mother, Hilda, had made a phone call to Joseph's credit card company.

Speaker 8 And after jumping through many hoops, securing a death certificate, and pleading for hours with customer service, they sent Joseph's family a list of all of his credit card transactions, charges that they couldn't see before.

Speaker 38 Some of those dates, it takes a few days for the transaction to go through.

Speaker 8 Joseph Balderis went missing on June 26, 2016.

Speaker 8 And the last charge on his bank statement is the exact same day.

Speaker 20 But his credit card statements tell a different story.

Speaker 1 Here's something weird.

Speaker 25 Joseph's personal credit card, along with his cell phone and other personal belongings, have never been found.

Speaker 9 But on his credit card statement, there are charges on July 8th, 9th, 11th, 13th, and 14th.

Speaker 8 These credit card purchases were made in person in Nome at a convenience store called Bonanza Express.

Speaker 6 And the last purchase was made 18 days after he went missing.

Speaker 18 18 days.

Speaker 29 This is like weeks after he went missing.

Speaker 38 Way after.

Speaker 16 Okay, so maybe there's an error here. Or the dates are a little off because processing time, right?

Speaker 14 Wrong.

Speaker 8 Joseph's mother went and tracked down the actual physical receipts from the convenience store itself, and they align exactly with these statements.

Speaker 8 We found every person in Gnome with this birth date, and now making purchases. literally while they were doing the biggest search effort in their history.

Speaker 23 For obvious reasons, I'm not yet going to tell you what they purchased, but all the items were consistent. The same person with the same group of people.

Speaker 11 Unfortunately, the store's security footage is now long gone. But all hope isn't lost here.

Speaker 21 Some of the items they purchased required a proof of age, meaning they had to give the store clerk their driver's license.

Speaker 11 And on every one of these receipts, it lists the date of birth they punched in.

Speaker 15 Holy shit.

Speaker 8 Is this the person that murdered Joseph Balderis?

Speaker 48 How did they get this card? There's two different cards. Did they find it out there somewhere?

Speaker 13 This to me is like a smoking gun here.

Speaker 49 Holy shit.

Speaker 43 Well, shit.

Speaker 49 Someone using his credit card after he's missing.

Speaker 49 They were using his credit card while the search was going on.

Speaker 49 Everything about this points to a homicide. If I'd talked to the people whose birthdates match.

Speaker 19 We did.

Speaker 8 We found every person in Nome with this birth date.

Speaker 24 And now I know where they live.

Speaker 8 It's time to go back to Nome.

Speaker 4 But this time, I'm here investigating two cases.

Speaker 24 Florence Akbialik and Joseph Balderis.

Speaker 8 Since episode 1 this season, our prior research and and investigations have now come full circle back around to real time.

Speaker 8 And we're just getting started here.

Speaker 8 In June of this year, Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun will return with eight more episodes.

Speaker 16 The cat's out of the bag now.

Speaker 8 And anyone involved in these cases likely knows that I'm investigating. This changes the landscape, but I plan on using that to my advantage.

Speaker 22 In downtown Nome, we installed a a large metal drop box.

Speaker 24 On it are the missing posters for Florence Akpialik and Joseph Balderis.

Speaker 8 Couldn't be better. With an anonymous tip line and a $50,000 reward for information.

Speaker 8 Lots of cars come through here.

Speaker 13 All the tourists come through here.

Speaker 8 We're going to find out what happened to them.

Speaker 12 For now, this first chapter is coming to an end.

Speaker 23 But this is really just the beginning here.

Speaker 22 And this June, we're coming back with eight more episodes.

Speaker 8 Just a few days ago, I logged into my Facebook.

Speaker 14 My real Facebook.

Speaker 22 And Org and John had blocked Payne Lindsey.

Speaker 23 Well, looks like the jig's up.

Speaker 22 No more catfishing.

Speaker 1 He blocked me.

Speaker 17 Like my real account.

Speaker 15 my real Facebook.

Speaker 16 I guess I have to call him as me.

Speaker 28 Hey, John,

Speaker 25 this is Payne.

Speaker 8 If you want a full breakdown, go right now to my weekly show called Talking to Death, where I break down this entire episode in great detail.

Speaker 8 Things in this case are shaking up, and this is a real-time investigation.

Speaker 23 And if you'd like to follow it more closely, go listen to the latest episode of Talking to Death.

Speaker 36 Hey, Up and Vanished listeners, this is Mike Rooney, lead producer of Up and and Vanished. I'm excited to tell you about a new podcast brought to you by the Up and Vanished team.

Speaker 36 It's called Status Untraced. In 2016, adventurer Justin Alexander was invited on a trek by an Indian holy man.

Speaker 36 They headed to a spiritual ground in the Himalayan mountains, a place beyond civilization. The holy man returned and said nothing, but Justin was never seen again.

Speaker 36 Check out this trailer.

Speaker 50 One guy, he went missing for

Speaker 51 But then there are some drawn in search of enlightenment. And this place changes them.

Speaker 32 There are stories from that part of the world where they'll say, like, oh, the person didn't come back because they didn't want to come back.

Speaker 51 Just to create a story and a scene, he threw all this stuff along the river and then he just vanished.

Speaker 51 The phenomenon called India syndrome could be chalked up to the valley's spiritual allure, but something else is going on here.

Speaker 51 There's a string of disappearances, many foreigners, and nearly all of the cases unsolved.

Speaker 2 Bruno Musharik, a Polish national, is missing. Aldeta Houghton, 24 from Cameroon

Speaker 51 said he befriended a

Speaker 2 That valley is beautiful and enchanting, but it's very dangerous. Nefarious things happen there.

Speaker 51 I fell upon one of these cases of an American world traveler gone missing. The circumstances of his disappearance were suspicious.
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Speaker 51 And what I found, I could have never imagined.

Speaker 48 You could read his posts about the guru. He knew this guy was bad news.

Speaker 32 The guy getting hung out of nowhere makes you go, there's something else.

Speaker 44 You think he's like robbing them and then taking the stuff?

Speaker 23 He's basically murdering them.

Speaker 51 A new investigative podcast from the team behind Up and Vanished. This is Status Untraced.
Coming April 17th on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is a production of Tunderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Payne Lindsey.

Speaker 2 The show is written by Payne Lindsey with additional assistance from Mike Rooney. Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsey.

Speaker 2 Lead producer is Mike Rooney, along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harrington.

Speaker 2 Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Additional production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kanik Glenn, and and Eric Quintana.
Artwork by Rob Sheridan. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Seth.

Speaker 2 Mixed and mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group.

Speaker 2 Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes.

Speaker 2 For more podcasts like Up and Vanished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us at tenderfoot.tv. Thanks for listening.

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