HTDE: Yes We Pecan, with Martha Stewart

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Speaker 1 Hey guys, it's Peter here with another episode of How to Do Everything hosted by Weight Weight producers Mike Danforth and Ian Shilog.

Speaker 1 This week, just ahead of Thanksgiving, the guys ring up hospitality icon Martha Stewart to help a listener pronounce the word that is spelled P-E-C-A-N, so popular in your Thanksgiving meals.

Speaker 1 Now, I, Peter Sagal, pronounce it like almond.

Speaker 6 Almond.

Speaker 1 But, you know, whatever. Martha probably has more authority on this topic than me.

Speaker 1 Now, if you like what you hear, make sure to get out of this feed and go over and follow them on their own How to Do Everything feed. Now enjoy the latest episode of How to Do Everything.

Speaker 7 What can we help you with, Alexa?

Speaker 9 So, okay, my mother is a born and raised Texan. I was taught from a very young age

Speaker 9 that the proper pronunciation of a certain nut is pecan

Speaker 9 and not pecan. And this is important because the state nut of Texas is the pecan.

Speaker 9 And I recently moved in with some new roommates in New York, two of which are from Texas. And I assumed they would also understand the importance of the pronunciation of pecans.

Speaker 10 And one of them does.

Speaker 9 However, the other does not.

Speaker 11 So your roommates, one says pecan and the other roommate, both from Texas, the other roommate says pecan.

Speaker 7 Yes. Have you ever been corrected? have you ever said pecan and somebody corrected you

Speaker 8 no

Speaker 11 but i am quick to make my feelings known if someone says the other pronunciation it does almost i i'm just gonna say this alexa you almost sound like you might be a little bit pedantic when it comes to pecans i mean the fact that you're throwing out it is the state nut

Speaker 9 I wasn't, I wasn't until I moved in with Texans.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 9 Because my belief was that every Texan knew the correct pronunciation. And I can be forgiving about other people from other states where the state is not a pecan.

Speaker 9 But it's now come to my realization that some Texans are wrong.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Yeah. You do keep calling it the correct pronunciation.
What is your question?

Speaker 9 I should roll it back. My question is, what is the correct pronunciation? And I will surrender if I am proven wrong.

Speaker 11 I think, yeah, it sounds like your question is right.

Speaker 12 This is How to Do Everything. I'm Mike.

Speaker 7 And I'm Ian. On today's show, how to light up the dark winter days.
But first, to Alexa's pecan pecan question.

Speaker 11 Now, when I make pecan pie, I use Martha Stewart's recipe.

Speaker 7 It's the gold standard.

Speaker 12 Martha, are you there?

Speaker 14 I'm Mikey, and you have Martha Stewart on the line.

Speaker 12 Hello, Martha.

Speaker 3 Good morning.

Speaker 7 Okay, Martha Stewart, how do you pronounce P-E-C-A-N?

Speaker 9 Pecan.

Speaker 6 Pecan.

Speaker 13 Pecan.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 9 Not very southern because I have a lot of southern friends and they all say pecan.

Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 9 And mine's pecan. You know, pecan.
It's not pecan.

Speaker 7 I don't say pecan. If someone does say pecan, do you correct them?

Speaker 5 Or do you just accept them? Absolutely not.

Speaker 9 But my granddaughter does oh well how does she how does she correct them pecan pecan yeah okay

Speaker 9 and she's 13

Speaker 9 and uh and you have to you know you have to then you have to look it up with her and oh god it's so annoying

Speaker 9 people say tomato tomacho you know who who knows do people really say tomato oh yes i have lots of friends who say tomacho one of my aunts used to say tomacho but she's not around anymore.

Speaker 10 Yeah, okay.

Speaker 9 She probably died early because she's sick tomacho.

Speaker 11 Well, Martha, thank you so much for helping us out today.

Speaker 6 This has been great.

Speaker 9 You're welcome.

Speaker 11 Martha's new book is her 100th book. It's 100 Favorite Recipes, Lessons, and Stories from My Kitchen.

Speaker 7 You know, there may be an even higher authority than Martha Stewart to ask about this.

Speaker 11 Hello, Dr. Sullivan.

Speaker 15 Hey, how are you doing?

Speaker 6 Pretty Pretty good.

Speaker 7 Where are we reaching you right now?

Speaker 15 I'm at Lacooterie Ojibwe Reservation in northern Wisconsin, about one hour south of Lake Superior.

Speaker 11 Dr. Michael McGeezy-Sullivan is an Ojibwe linguist at El Cojibwe University in Wisconsin.

Speaker 7 So, Dr. Sullivan, we understand this word has its roots in the Ojibwe language.
Is that right?

Speaker 15 Yeah, I think the

Speaker 15 general sort of agreed-upon assumption is that it it derives from an Algonquian language, which is the bigger family to which Ojibwe belongs.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 7 In that language, how do you pronounce this word?

Speaker 15 Right on. I thought you'd never ask.
So we say Bagon.

Speaker 10 Bagon.

Speaker 7 Bagon. Bagon.

Speaker 15 Yeah, so we spell it in Ojibwe.

Speaker 10 We spell it with a B.

Speaker 3 Okay. Bagon.

Speaker 3 Now,

Speaker 15 being that Europeans call it a Pecan, I'd say would be the closest in the colloquial English that matches an indigenous pronunciation, bagan,

Speaker 10 pecan.

Speaker 7 So the the kind of most correct would be bagan,

Speaker 7 but if if you were forced to accept an anglicized version of the word,

Speaker 7 pecan would be better than pecan.

Speaker 10 Yes, very much so.

Speaker 15 Yeah, well one thing, you know, as a as a linguist, sometimes linguists are kind of like language police.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 15 I'm not really one of them, you know, like a language is beautiful in all of its variation, right?

Speaker 15 So if there's multiple pronunciations of this, like the tomato-tomato kind of debate, you know, people say

Speaker 10 well, whatever.

Speaker 15 So I don't even really engage in being the correct.

Speaker 10 But if if somebody wanted to be historically correct or cared, right, that wagon would be the proper pronunciation.

Speaker 15 Pecan sounds really American to me.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 11 That's okay. So maybe Alexis should know that she could tell her roommates that Dr.

Speaker 4 Sullivan is laughing at you when you say pecan.

Speaker 3 Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1 Yep, yep. You sound really Anglo when you say pecan.

Speaker 12 Okay.

Speaker 10 Bagan is where we're going for it. Yeah.

Speaker 7 So as somebody who cares about this language, these languages,

Speaker 7 if you're, you know, if you are faced with a pie, with these nuts, are you like, oh, thank you for the bagan pie?

Speaker 16 Or do you say pecan pie?

Speaker 16 When we speak English, you mean?

Speaker 6 Sure, yeah.

Speaker 7 Well, yeah, if you're, if you're, I guess if you're hanging with Anglos.

Speaker 15 Yeah, I would probably, if I was hanging with Anglos and it was in the the English-speaking setting, pecan, pecan, pecan, I'd probably say pecan.

Speaker 10 I'd probably use the English pronunciation just to fit in.

Speaker 15 But I might launch into a sort of teachable moment, right?

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 15 Eating my pecan pie with other Anglos.

Speaker 10 Yeah, definitely a teachable moment.

Speaker 11 Well, Dr. Sullivan, thank you so much for talking to us about this.

Speaker 15 Yeah, it sounds like a really, really cool, fun show, man. I think I might have to tune in.

Speaker 10 So keep up the good work.

Speaker 7 Michael McGeezy Sullivan's book is Plums or Nuts: Ojibwe Stories of Anishinaabe Humor.

Speaker 7 I want to do something here, which is I have tried over the past several years to stop saying you guys. The phrase, you guys.
Right. Mike, I think you and I are both guilty of this.

Speaker 11 Yeah, I will write that in an email, a group email, and then I will take it out. Then I have to scramble to come up with something else.

Speaker 7 And sometimes I'll hear it come out of your mouth, which you can't take back. You've already hurt people.

Speaker 11 You're right. You can't unhear that.
I apologize. To anyone I've said that to, I apologize.

Speaker 7 So both of us would like to stop saying it. So we're going to establish a little accountability.
We're going to do a you guys fast.

Speaker 7 And you people out there,

Speaker 7 we'd love for you to join. If you also want to stop saying you guys,

Speaker 7 send us an email. Let us know you're taking part.
Keep us apprised of your progress, your mistakes, the times you hurt people, just as Mike has.

Speaker 11 Wait, so you people,

Speaker 12 that's the solution?

Speaker 7 You're right, that doesn't sound great either. You, you, our fellow, our fellow humans out there, if you would like to join us in this you guys fast, let us know.

Speaker 11 This is a real story that I have a relative who's a pastor who was baptizing a kid, a baby, and he forgot the baby's name and he just said, child of God.

Speaker 12 And that was his solution in the moment in front of everybody. That doesn't work.

Speaker 11 It doesn't quite work in an email.

Speaker 7 Well, I think if any of us embarking on this fast, and let's say it's a 30-day fast, if you find yourself about to say you guys, just try you children of God

Speaker 7 and see where that gets you.

Speaker 4 Hey, y'all, that works.

Speaker 11 Hina, that was what you did, right? That's what you've done. We talked about this, and that was a solution that you came up with.

Speaker 17 Yeah, I went to a very PC high school and we actually couldn't say guys.

Speaker 17 And so I started saying y'all. And then I went to college and everyone thought I was from the South.

Speaker 3 And where are you from?

Speaker 17 The Chicago suburbs.

Speaker 12 There you go.

Speaker 7 Well, if you, children of God, have a question for us, just get it to us at howto at npr.org.

Speaker 11 No matter what your question is, no matter how big, no matter how small, we will do our best to find an expert to answer it. That email again: howto at npr.org.

Speaker 1 This message comes from NPR sponsor Patagonia. As environmental progress stalls, Patagonia believes it's on businesses to step up.

Speaker 1 The company knows it isn't perfect, but it's proving businesses can make a profit without bankrupting the planet.

Speaker 1 Out now is Patagonia's 2025 Work in Progress Report, a behind-the-scenes look into its impact initiatives from quitting forever chemicals and decarbonizing its supply chain to embracing fair trade.

Speaker 1 Explore more at patagonia.com/slash impact.

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Speaker 7 The town of Viganella, Italy sits in the shadow of the Alps such that the town got no sunlight for three months out of the year for centuries.

Speaker 11 In 2006, the mayor, Pierfranco Medali, was overseeing the rebuilding of the town square and he came up with an idea.

Speaker 11 Pierfranco is on the line with us now, along with his daughter Fabiola, who's translating.

Speaker 20 Okay, so he was working with a friend of him who is an architect for the square, for the rebuilding of the square, and they were also working on a sun dial

Speaker 20 to be painted on the wall of the church. And while speaking about this,

Speaker 20 he told his friend, this sundial will be useless for three months in winter because there will be no sun. And his friend told him, are you joking? No, I'm not joking.

Speaker 20 So they decided to try to find a solution to solve the problem of the shades for three months in winter.

Speaker 7 So they realized that the tops of the mountains around the town did get sunlight, and that that might be their solution.

Speaker 20 Okay, so they decided to build this giant mirror, 40 square meters at the top of the mountain opposite the village to reflect the sun directly on the village.

Speaker 20 It's one kilometer far from the village on the top of the mountain, and it is able to light

Speaker 20 750 square meters

Speaker 20 around the whole square and a bit more, maybe some houses too.

Speaker 20 so during the winter months when there is no sun the mirror creates sunlight in the sun yeah it's a fake sun it's not like real sun because it's it doesn't warm up

Speaker 20 it's it's simply yeah it's sun it's light no scalda

Speaker 20 yeah it doesn't warm up but it lights so we can see the sun on the square which was something unbelievable because

Speaker 20 for the people who live in Viganela for the whole life,

Speaker 20 it was strange.

Speaker 21 Yeah.

Speaker 16 And if you wanted to, could you stand out there and get a suntan?

Speaker 20 We have no suntan.

Speaker 20 Do you want to show them with Falivederic Mecebrunzato? Yeah, he's a bit tanned. Only a bit.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Can you remember? Can you remember what it felt like the first time the sun bounced out this mirror and lit up this place which had been dark? Describe the scene if you remember.

Speaker 20 He told us that even before the construction of the mirror, lots of people were skeptical about it.

Speaker 20 They didn't believe that it would be possible to build such an invention.

Speaker 20 So he carried on his shoulders a giant mirror and he went to the the top of the mountain and he tried to show the people how it would be like to have the sun even in winter because lots of people didn't believe him wow

Speaker 20 yeah they thought he was crazy in any kind of way that that's true because he's a bit crazy

Speaker 21 yeah

Speaker 21 i guess you'd have to be kind of crazy to to think that putting a giant

Speaker 20 mirror on a mountain would work you must be crazy to come up with such an invention, yeah, with such an idea.

Speaker 12 I agree with you.

Speaker 11 Well, that does it for this week's show. What'd you learn, Ian?

Speaker 7 Well, I learned that you can actually, you could use a mirror to light up an entire town.

Speaker 11 It seems like such a simple solution. but an incredible solution at such a huge scale.

Speaker 5 Like that's such a giant mirror.

Speaker 7 I think that mirror also, up on top of the the mountain, yeah, it's useful for any of the animals that need to see how they look. You know, you maybe do a little preening.

Speaker 7 Do I have something in my teeth?

Speaker 11 But could you imagine though if you're down there in the square and you're like, you know what, I'm tanning, I'm just gonna get a quick tan, and then suddenly a shadow goes over it because a bear is like checking its teeth, you'd be like, Hey, hey,

Speaker 6 yeah, really trying to get some sun.

Speaker 7 Yeah, I guess like a bear could actually cause a solar eclipse

Speaker 7 just because it wanted to do its eyebrows.

Speaker 11 How to do everything is produced by Hina Sri Rvastova with technical direction from Lorna White.

Speaker 7 Our intern is Ed Brown. Ed, we're glad to hear the hiccup cure worked.

Speaker 11 Stay strong, Ed.

Speaker 7 Get us your questions at howto at npr.org. I'm Ian.

Speaker 6 And I'm Mike. Thanks.
Thanks.

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