229. THE WORLD CUP WITH ABBY: Inside Her Most Stunning Moments & 2023 Predictions

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Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things.

This is

what we are calling World Cup Week.

Oh, okay, because

we are going to get the pod squad completely ready for the most exciting, important

sporting

situation

event on the planet.

Yep.

Okay.

The most important and exciting sporting event on the planet is coming up.

And the pod squad needs to be ready.

So what you need to know, pod squad, is that in preparation, I did sit down with Abby at a table and said, I really think it's important that we highlight the shit out of the World Cup.

And so I want to brainstorm who we should have on.

to talk about the World Cup.

And Abby Wambach did sit with me for 20 minutes.

I said, I want somebody who knows the ins and outs.

I want somebody who has been there, who has had the highs, who has had the lows, who will take us into the moments of the World Cup.

Obviously, we already had Rapino.

We're going to bring on the precious warrior, Sophia Smith.

After, yeah.

It took 20 minutes, but Abby did say,

I've been to the World Cup.

What about me?

And I am

coach.

Oh my God, love bug.

We have the

queen of the World Cup.

wow the queen of our hearts

who is here today to give us every single bit of background information all of the juicy details the highs the lows the thrill of victory the agony of defeat

How many more cliches can you throw into this conversation?

A lot more.

I'm putting money.

We're going to leave it on the field.

We're going to throw some Hail Marys.

Oh,

all right.

I've been reading articles about Abby, which is so ridiculous.

No, it's not.

It's thrilling.

And I feel like I owe you an apology.

I feel like I should have been walking around like, hey, Abby,

remember when that woman punched you in the face during that game and the reps missed it?

And then you had to go in for that goal with a

swollen shut eye.

And then you made it.

And then you pointed at your eye.

You're such a badass.

I should have been saying these things more to you instead of like, you such a good sister i love you oh yeah she's such a badass abby today is going to tell us some beautiful stories and get us ready because nobody can get a squad ready like abby wombok actually do you want to give us a little pep talk pretend we're in a huddle do you have huddles in soccer yeah that's what you do you huddle up you huddle up you circle up circle up pod squad give us a a pep talk like you're captain abby wombok and we're about to go on the field what do you say all right so here's the thing this is a huddle up for the listener.

This sporting event is going to be riddled with so much drama.

There's going to be ups.

There's going to be downs.

You are going to see some of the most amazing footballers play this game to their maximum.

And what you're about to hear is an old player who played the game to her maximum.

I just am so excited because this is going to be the most competitive World Cup you've ever witnessed.

Really?

You're going to learn and know more about some of these younger national team players for the U.S.

that are coming up.

And you're going to see some magic.

And I think that one of the reasons why people love watching our women's team play in big events like the World Cup is because we have a really good chance of going far and winning.

Oh, so that's different than with the men.

Very.

And no disrespect to the men.

No.

But our women's team is a powerhouse.

When you go to watch the game, your central nervous system can calm just a little because we will likely have an advantage

and it's going to be fun to watch.

The advantage

of excellence.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, okay.

That was a terrible huddle up, by the way.

I thought it was great.

I could do that.

I could do better.

That was great.

We'll give you a chance to do another one at the end.

Okay.

I want to talk about the first time you made it on to the World Cup team.

Oh, my gosh.

Wait, can you like can we stop for a second and just for the novices among us

we have the olympics and then we have the world cup so is the world cup like the international super bowl of football slash soccer but similar to the olympics it only happens every four years

correct the first world cup took place in 1930 and it was created because at the time soccer was not part of the summer games oh interesting so it was like an alt to Olympics.

Yeah.

And just for reference, the Olympics allows

the women's teams to play, but they only allow a younger version of the men's so as to not cannibalize in a way the Olympics because the soccer teams would get so much more publicity and excitement.

Oh, interesting.

So you had played in college.

Yeah.

You were playing on a professional team.

After college.

After college, you were playing on on a professional team.

And then you were in the national team

pool.

Yeah.

Pool.

So explain to us what that means.

So essentially what happens is for the most part, it's a little bit different now than it was when I was going through.

But the national team has youth national team programs.

So when I was going, it was 15, 17, 18, 19, 21.

And now it's a little different.

I'm not sure the exact age groups that they have now.

But it gives younger players an opportunity to play with other players around the country

to then one day become a national team player.

Now, the senior national team is compiled of a group of national team pool players.

So, the coaching staff, general manager of the national team, they have a list of players, which essentially is what the national team pool is.

And then they pull from that pool to bring in players for certain camps for certain rosters.

How do you get put in the pool?

You are scouted.

So, you're scouted from the time that you're a young kid all the way through college.

And then when you get on a professional team, that is really where a lot of the players are getting now pulled from.

Now that we haven't really established a great professional league, it's an easier way for the national team coaches to identify players on a week-by-week basis, you know, depending on what's coming up.

I mean, there's one player on the team right now that she's actually never

played for the national team, but she made the World Cup roster because of her performance on our professional team.

Savannah DeMello has yet to actually suit up and get a cap for a women's national team.

Savannah DeMello.

Congratulations.

So one day you're sitting around and you're playing on your professional team and you get a call from someone that says, you're swimming in the national pool now.

How does that work?

Usually you get a call up to a certain camp.

So throughout the year, the national team has international dates where they can train and then play games usually at the end of those camps.

Those are the friendlies?

Correct.

Friendly games are games that are real games, but they don't matter.

There's no like tournament.

There's no prize at the end of it.

So the national team coaching staff, I bet, are in constant communication with the coaches in the NWSL and also players who are playing in foreign leagues, U.S.

national team players who are playing in foreign leagues.

They'll call the coach, talk about the player, and then after they've seen enough quality from that player, they will get in touch either by phone call or

email, letting that player know that they're going to get called into the next camp.

So all the soccer people, if they're in like a pyramid of people, then, you know, they're trying to get higher and higher.

They get higher if they're playing professional.

And then the highest, the best of that gets pulled up to the national team.

Correct.

So then the national team pool is there.

But you, once you're on the national team pool, that doesn't mean you're getting picked for the World Cup.

Yes.

Right.

So only the tippy top of people

determined by the coach that year or staff get chosen for the actual World Cup roster.

That's right.

So tell me about when you finally get your, you're holding your breath.

What year was this when you first made the World Cup roster?

2003.

2003.

Take us back to that moment.

2003, Abby Wombach's first World Cup.

20 years ago.

20 years ago.

I was playing on the Washington Freedom, which now is the Washington Spirit in the former WSA league.

And the head coach, April Hendricks, she called me and asked me to come to her house.

She lived like an hour or two outside of DC because she wanted to discuss the World Cup roster.

And I was very excited and also nervous.

I had been playing with the national team for the prior two years.

I was getting called into camps.

I was getting left out of some camps.

And so I was in and out.

And who was on that team that we would know?

So Mia Hamm, Julie Faudi, Brandi Trastain,

Christine Lilly, some of the veteran iconic women that you've probably remember watching in the 99 Women's World Cup.

So I drive my car to my head coach's house and I was very nervous because I was either going to make it or not.

And so I walk into her house.

And, you know, I'm 22, 23 years old at the time.

I'm very very scared.

Yes.

I'm very nervous.

She's like,

can I emphasize how incredibly scared I am?

Yeah, I was very nervous.

And I walk in and she says, are you hungry?

And I'm just like, yes, like nervous energy.

So she makes me a ham sandwich.

A me a ham sandwich.

She makes me a ham sandwich.

Okay, sorry.

Go ahead.

And she sits me down and proceeds to let me know that I have made the final roster for the 2003 Women's World Cup.

And so I was so excited.

And just so everybody is clear, when you're getting called into camp, it is of my mind at the time.

I'm one of the younger players.

I'm new.

I'm just trying to break into the scene.

Every single camp, every single meeting, every single time we're in a group of people, I am doing a head count in terms of how I see everybody on the team and where they lie on like the numbers system.

Yeah, of course.

And I think at the time, only 21 players made that roster.

And so I kept getting to like the 20th and 21st player.

And I'm like, oh, I think I'm right there.

I was like seeing myself just getting in, just getting in by the skin of my teeth.

So I'm on the team.

She tells me I'm on the team.

And then

she proceeds to tell me that I'm going to start.

Oh my God.

That I'm a starter.

How many people start on a soccer field?

11.

You have 10 field players in a goalie because, you know, the whole previous two years, I was getting called in and sometimes I wasn't even getting sent to games and playing in camps.

So what did I know?

But I was playing so well in the league and Mia happened to be on my team.

I got so lucky to get drafted to play on the team that Mia Hamm was on.

Oh, so she was on the Freedom also.

In the professional league, yeah.

So you had the chemistry with her that you could play together.

So it's like, yes.

Where Mia goes, so does that be.

It was like Taylor Swift and Gracie Abrams or something such as exactly like

that.

Yeah.

Abby was Gracie.

Yeah, I got that.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

So

she tells me that I've made it and I'm going to start.

So I was excited.

I made it.

And then I was terrified.

Yeah.

You're just like, I was happy for 30 seconds before I knew.

I was just happy to be there.

You know, your first time going to one of these big events, of course, in your, in like your best, highest self, you want to play, but also also I don't want to fuck it up.

Like, I don't want to get out there and ruin it.

And you're playing with all of your heroes.

Oh, yeah.

It was intense.

So she tells you that she believes in you so much that she's going to start you.

Yeah.

Okay.

Then you go back to your Washington Freedom team.

And what happens after she tells you that she believes in you?

I score a ton of goals.

We end up winning the WSA championship.

Yeah.

And one thing that I scored the game-winning goal.

I was the MVP.

She's like, damn, I should have told Emmy that earlier.

But that's a good point.

Words of affirmation work very well for me.

Yes, I always say, I love how you cooked tonight.

I love how you do the dishes.

I believe in you.

But Abby said to me when she was first telling me this story, you should always tell people ahead of time.

If you believe in them, tell them ahead of time because it like puts this extra pep in your step.

Yeah.

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So tell me what happens when you're preparing to go to the World Cup.

What does that look like for a person?

Well, it's very different now, but you've got to pack for like a whole month being on the road.

And you're going from different place to different place, different city to different city.

You get a whole ton of gear from the sponsor of the national team that was just decked out in all the World Cup gear.

And it's very cool, especially when you're young, you're like wearing all the crests and stuff very proudly, because this is like a dream come true.

Like I watched the 99 World Cup women's team play and win at the Rose Bowl when Brandy like ripped off her jersey after she scored the penalty to win that World Cup for the U.S.

And I was 19 watching that.

I remember being like, that looks cool.

I think I want to do that.

I want to do that for a job.

And so, you know, my whole life had been about soccer.

So this was the pinnacle.

This was like the big tournament.

So I was thrilled, excited, and also terrified.

I like, I had a role.

I had a big job to do also.

Okay.

So take us to the Germany game.

It's the semifinal game.

So to win it, you go to the final.

To lose it, you go to the third place game.

Okay.

And

just so everybody's understanding, the World Cup for me at the time, it was like I wanted the veteran players who had just won the previous World Cup, I wanted them to re-experience that.

And as for me, as a person, I can't just do something for myself.

I will superhuman myself for us, for the group, for the whole.

And so, we get ourselves into the semifinal game against Germany.

And have you been playing that whole time?

You've been starting?

Yeah, I've been playing.

I think I'm actually the leading scorer on the team.

Wow.

I'm doing well.

I'm having a pretty good World Cup for especially a young player.

And Germany is one of the best teams in the world.

They had this player, Gareth Freckis, who

just was very tall.

So on all of our set pieces, defensive set pieces, like, so, you know, we're defending corner kicks and we're defending free kicks.

Hold, please.

A set piece is like where they know what they're going to do.

It's like a set piece is like a scene where everyone knows their lines and then the rest of soccer is like improv.

There's a foul.

There is a foul, and the ball is set.

Right.

And so then there is a play that happens to try to score a goal.

And so Germany ended up getting a corner kick at the very beginning of the game.

And the entire scouting of Germany was that Gareth Reckis, this tall player who was my mark, the person that I am trying to prevent from scoring.

Everything goes to the back post.

Everything goes to the back post.

What does that mean?

Meaning, if there's a corner kick,

they serve the ball to the very farthest post.

So there's two posts in soccer.

There's a front post of the goal.

There's a front post and the back post.

And all of their service was going to the back post.

That was the scouting report that we got.

And so

they told me Garifrekis will stand on the back post.

You mark her there.

First corner happens.

Garifrekis is standing on the front post on the near post.

And so I'm of two minds, meaning I don't know what to do.

Because your coach has told you to be in one place and you can see that you should be in another place.

This is the set part of the set piece, but she's fucking up the set.

This is an ad-lib on Germany.

They called an audible.

They did, yes.

So I look at Julie Faudi, who's the captain of our team, and I was like, Jules, what the fuck do I do?

She's sitting on the near post.

She goes, okay,

stand in the middle and do both.

If it goes near post, get there.

If it goes far post, get there.

I'm like, all right.

So I'm not touch tight, meaning I'm not as close to Garifrekas as I need to be.

Long and the short of it, they kick the corner kick and they, this kick is like on a rope, meaning it is driven very quickly.

And I couldn't get to Garifrekis.

She heads the ball, scores a goal, and we're down one to zero.

She won my mark.

Yeah, exactly.

It was my mark.

Okay.

She scored.

I fucked up.

Okay.

So you fucked up.

It was your mark that scored the goal.

Yes.

You're the baby of the team.

Your whole dream is to give this to the 99ers again.

Yeah.

And you feel as if you have lost the game for the team.

The whole World Cup.

Yes.

This is the quarterfinals or the semifinals?

Semis.

So now they were supposed to go to the finals if they won this.

And so take us to

you

when that game ends and you have lost.

So we lose.

We actually lose the game by more than one

because we were trying to push push forward for a goal and they countered and scored a couple goals on us

yeah i'll never forget that night as long as i live i remember feeling like i was in a bad dream like i was going to wake up from it because it was like the worst possible outcome that i could imagine i was so upset after the game i was inconsolable i was so upset that that i wouldn't get out of the shower i was just sitting on the ground in the shower crying

the coach actually ended up telling somebody else to stay behind because the team was already on the bus and I was in a really bad place.

You were throwing stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was livid.

I felt completely responsible.

And it was the most devastating thing that I think had happened to me up until that point in my life.

Did anybody say anything like comforting to you or helpful that you remember, or was it just quiet or not comforting or not helpful to you?

I've learned this more now.

We don't bullshit each other.

You know, it's like, it's not like, you're fine.

No, it wasn't that.

It was just like,

this sucks.

That's a kick in the teeth.

Yeah.

That's honorable.

It really is.

It's not patronizing.

Every time anyone strikes out on Bobby's team, I always scream, it's okay.

And then the whole team looks at me like, there's nothing worse you can say than it's okay.

Well, I mean, and not for nothing, like not many people know this, but my livelihood depends on how well I do in the World Cup, even in perception.

I'm leading the team and scoring for the World Cup, but now I'm thinking I've, I've fucked up my whole career.

This one play is going to now define me.

It was horrible.

It was a horrible feeling.

I knew that the older veterans were considering their retirements at this point.

They were getting older and I didn't know if this was going to be the thing, right?

But they ended up continuing on and playing in the 2004 Olympics.

Okay, so the next World Cup is 2007.

I asked you about 2007 and your response was as follows.

I don't want to talk about it next.

So I guess we're skipping 2007, right?

Yeah, it was a shit show.

Okay.

Not a good time.

2011.

I want you, my love,

to preface.

That amazing moment in 2011 that so many pod squatters will actually know

the game against Brazil.

But get us there.

So it's a tournament in Germany and Europe is known to have a lot of football, soccer knowledge.

FIFA was at the time putting more money than they ever had into the tournament.

So the German fans came out in droves.

It was really incredible.

It felt more professional than any other World Cup I had been to felt.

It was like, oh, this is kind of how it's supposed to be.

We had done pretty well throughout the tournament, and we find ourselves in the quarterfinal game against Brazil.

We're in Dresden, and who's on the team?

Megan Rapino.

I think that that might have been Megan's first World Cup.

Yeah, Megan, Chris Rampone, Shannon Box, Carly Lloyd, Allie Krieger, Rachel Bueller was on the team, Heather O'Reilly,

Lori Lindsay, Kelly O'Hara, she's on the team now.

A lot of old school folks.

I feel like

for sure, this game changed my life.

And

had I known it was going to change my life, I would have probably decided to be way more nervous for it.

But I felt pretty confident.

The previous World Cup, Brazil beat us in the game, knocking us out of the World Cup.

And it was a butt-kicking, too.

Like, it was a humiliating one.

Yeah, they killed us.

And just food for thought.

They're very

fun

before

and after the games, Brazil, like they're beating drums.

They're like being really rowdy and excited.

And so after we lost in 07,

they

we were, we, the national teams,

because in the later, later rounds, they play in certain stadiums and FIFA would house us in the same hotels.

Hashtag bad.

I don't know if that happens anymore, but I'm clear it doesn't happen on the men's side.

And so when we lost to Brazil in 07, we were in the lobby with our friends and family getting consoled, sad, upset.

We just got super humiliated by Brazil.

They just kicked our ass.

Is that why you didn't want to talk about 2007?

A little bit.

Okay.

Sorry.

No, it's totally fine.

Brazil's team bus drives up and they're beating their drums.

And it was one of those circular doors where there's like three sections and it, you know, if you touch the door, the door stops like that, that thing.

They got their entire team inside the circular door and they went round and round while we were in the lobby crying.

That is hell.

And I'll never, I'll never forget that feeling.

Cause we all just had to sit there and watch them celebrate in front of us.

And so here we are playing against Brazil fast forward 2011 in Dresden.

Does that make you extra as a team just freaking ready to play this game?

Like, have you been waiting for this moment for four years to like finally kick Brazil's ass?

Yes.

And so here we are.

We find ourselves, we go up early in the game.

Kind of an own goal gets scored.

So we're upped one to zero.

And then

it's freaking crazy, but

we end up getting a red card in the 60th minute.

What?

Yeah, Rachel Bueller gets a red card and we go down a player.

What did she do?

She got a penalty.

Okay.

But the referee deemed Rachel Bueller last player, meaning if you foul somebody and you're the last defender, that prevents somebody from an opportunity from scoring a goal.

Then that's an automatic red card.

Okay, pod squad, a red card is when you get a really serious timeout and you have to go to the sideline and think about what you've done.

For the rest of the game.

It's an ejection.

So it was like an hour you were playing a woman down that means one less player on the field for an hour yes well because at the time you don't know if you're going to go into extra extra time this game we ended up going overtime because you know they score a goal they tie it up we end up going into extra time against brazil we're still playing down a man shannon box was by far in my mind the mvp of this game because she was playing a holding center mid and a center back so when we were in attack she'd push up high and when we were defending she'd get back on on her back line.

It was, she was a miracle that day.

And so we get ourselves into overtime.

Brazil scores on a corner kick.

Marta does what Marta does.

She scores this ridiculous goal.

And we're losing two to one.

And at this point, the game essentially, if you score in overtime in the world of soccer, that's like, okay, you, you, you've done it, right?

So you all were like, the whole world was like, Brazil's got this.

Yes.

It's over.

Especially because we're also still playing down a player.

Right.

You're down a player.

So it's 11 to 10.

And how far into the overtime is this that they score their goal?

They scored in the first overtime.

And then the game is counting down.

We're like, there's like two minutes left.

And one of the Brazilian players goes down with an injury.

And

I'm going up to the referee.

I'm like, she's wasting time.

She clearly like walks over and then falls to the ground.

Right.

because she's like, if I can eat one of these two minutes, we're good.

Yeah.

And so they bring out the stretcher.

She gets on the stretcher.

And as the stretcher leaves the field, she jumps off the stretcher and runs to the middle of the field to get called back on the game.

What a rascal.

Yeah.

Here's what ends up happening.

Because the player goes down with the injury.

Now the referee puts on two minutes of injury time in extra time, which is pretty rare at the time.

Now they do do tons of extra time in the World Cups and whatnot.

So

it's like 120th minute, 121st minute.

And it's supposed to be over or when?

120.

So the referee is playing on for a few minutes because of this perceived injury and the time that it took for her to get off the field.

And you're screaming what at your team?

I'm screaming one chance.

I was not willing to let myself believe that we were about to lose.

Like it was not happening.

Just one chance.

So, on our own goal line, which is like where our goalkeeper is, our goal line, Christy Rampone

fouls the Brazilian player.

I'll say it.

She fouls a Brazilian player and gets the ball, but the referee doesn't call it.

She gets the ball back for us, and there's 10 or 20 seconds left of this game.

That's how we're feeling in the moment.

And we have the entire length of the field to go.

It's a very big field.

So Christie Rampone gets the ball, passes it out to Allie Krieger, wide right.

Allie gets the ball and plays it to Carly Lloyd

in the center of the field, a little bit towards the midfield.

Now, Brazil is like dropping all of their players back.

So there's tons of them

getting more towards their own goal to protect their goal.

Yeah, they're getting their drums ready.

They're like, we got this.

Yeah, exactly.

Carly gets the ball.

She dribbles it a few times across the center of the field and then plays it out wide to Megan Rapino, who's now on the left side of the field and

probably

60 yards away from the goal line.

Megan takes a few touches, looks up, looks down, and then

proceeds to play,

I think,

one of, if not the best, balls and assists in a World Cup period.

She just bombs.

She just hits the fucking shit out of this ball.

And I'm watching her because I am on the front line.

It is my job now.

Okay.

The ball is in the air.

I get a read on it.

I get an instant knowing where that ball is going to go.

And for whatever reason, the Brazilian goalkeeper thinks that she can get to it.

So she comes out.

And by the way, this entire game, the defender who was marking me was doing a fantastic job, marked me out of the entire game.

I couldn't get my head to anything on every set play, on every corner kick that we had.

She had my number that day.

And all I kept thinking was, don't fuck this up.

And then I see the keeper come out.

I see the keeper's hands come across my face and she misses the ball.

And I'm like, this is coming to me.

This ball is coming to my head and the keeper is out.

It is a wide open goal.

Oh my God.

And for whatever reason, I can't remember.

You can't remember.

I don't remember.

I don't know if it's because I closed my eyes or if God was on my side, but like as the ball strikes my head, all I know is I just need to, I need to head it.

I can't just let it hit me.

I need to actually head it.

So I jump.

I rise up.

It is a perfect ball.

It is perfectly on my head.

Everything is right.

I head it and I open my eyes and you hear the crowd.

go

because they see this whole moment and they see that the goal is wide open.

i heard the crowd

explode and instantly i thought oh my god i hit the wrong side of the net it went wide because you don't know what they're exploding for yes i because it's so loud that i was like oh my gosh and then i realized i saw the ball go into the middle of of

the goal it went in and we just tied this game in the last few seconds

And I remember I peeled out and the next thing I know, I was sliding.

I was doing one of those knee slides, but the field wasn't wet anymore.

So painful.

Well, here's what happened.

I'm knee sliding and in the stadium, like six inches off the sideline, there's a concrete path that I see.

So I have to like pop up to my knees.

Otherwise, I'm going to scrape up my knees.

And as I stand up, I slip on the concrete.

And this is when.

kind of the dog pile happens.

Oh, yes.

And the crowd is going crazy.

And like, there are moments, if you Google it, there are video internet compilations of bars all over the world losing their minds after Abby scores this goal and the announcers going, Wombach has saved the USA's life.

Well, right before that, the dude who was doing the famous commentary was like, this will go down in history as the U.S.'s most

disappointing loss of the and three seconds later, he goes, Can you believe it?

Abbe Wamaka saved the United States of America.

So you stand up and then Rapino.

Well, okay, so there's a dog pile.

There's a dog pile.

Our whole bench clears and they're like freaking out on the sideline with me.

But Pino was so far away and probably did her own celebration, you know, just like, you know, fuck yes.

It takes her a little bit to get to it to me.

So our little dog pile kind of separates and we're starting to run back to the center line to start the game again.

And Pino runs up to me and jumps into

my

like body.

She jumps onto me so hard that it hurt me.

You're like, yes, my knees.

No, my chest.

It was mayhem.

And like, by the way, like, we're still playing Down-A-Man.

We have to start the game again to like get the game to go into penalties.

We have done nothing.

We just tied the game.

We end up getting to penalties.

We win in penalties.

Moving on to the semis.

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Tell me what you said about you knew your life had changed.

Why did you know that your life had changed from that goal?

So my agent after that game was like, okay, so we're getting quite a bit of inbound calls.

And the way that like professional sports work, especially for women, endorsements happen the most around these World Cups.

And so I realized my life had changed after that game in the post-game friends and family party that Dan pulled me aside and was like,

look, like people are calling, like, big names, national sponsorships are getting called in.

And I just was like, Holy shit!

He was like begging me to get on Twitter,

like, please start a profile.

But that wasn't the finals.

No, I mean, we hadn't won anything yet, we just won that quarterfinal game, sending us to the semis against France.

We ended up winning against France.

You also scored on the penalty kick of that game because I did.

And that goal was the latest scoring goal in World Cup history.

122.

Yes.

122 minute goal.

When I was reading Abby, I had no idea about this.

I knew that it was like, you know, I have like a painting of it in my house.

I know it's a huge deal in the world,

but I didn't know what it did for U.S.

soccer, that goal.

I was reading soccer historians.

And they said that that goal in Brazil helped significantly.

they point to that 120 second moment to reignite the sport of women's soccer in the u.s and that right after that goal the day after the u.s sent dozens of media to like a budget and

dozens dozens of media and potential sponsors to that were just sitting out the world cup they weren't even attending and because of the number of people who watched that and started demanding and talking about it, in response to that, they sent their media to cover it.

And that

led to the resurgence.

So it's wild to think about like this moment from your individual perspectives, your individual players, then the people that it impacted, then the way that the world responded, and then the demand initiated by your goal, meaning that all of these little little girls have opportunities they didn't have before because

your head was in the right place.

Yeah, it was a wild moment of my life.

Everything changed from that point on.

And

I was also like completely aware that we hadn't won anything yet.

Yeah.

Like that was just a game.

And then we had to go play France.

We won against France and then we found ourselves against Japan in the finals, which at the time was an upset.

Japan upset Germany to get into the finals.

And I remember watching the Germany-Japan game going, oh my gosh, this could be a fairy tale.

I felt very confident playing against Japan in the finals and winning.

Oh, you did.

So then tell us just a little bit about that game and how it ended.

We fucking lost.

Okay.

That was a little less than I was hoping for.

So

we end up going up a goal.

Alex

scores a goal.

I think that I told her that I was in love with her.

I remember that moment.

It's a headline.

People will cover this podcast, People magazine.

Habby Wambach admits she was in love with Alex.

Yeah.

I did that twice.

Alex is probably used to that.

I did that twice in her career.

One game when she scored against Italy to actually send us to the World Cup.

She came on.

and scored a very late goal, baby horse.

And then this one against Japan in the finals.

And it's a weird thing because our coach at the time, Pia, she'd never wanted to like,

you know, like at the end of a game when teams like park the bus is what they call it,

which means you just defend and just put numbers behind the ball and make it really hard for them to score.

Pia never wanted to do that.

She's like, just keep playing.

And so, all right, here we are.

We're just going to keep playing.

This is how we do it.

Well, Japan gets a corner kick at the end of the game

and

Sawa scores a goal, sending it to extra time.

So here we are again, having to go into overtime in a finals of the World Cup.

We had just done an overtime with Brazil two games before that went into penalties.

And it's weird because I

scored a goal.

in overtime.

So I was about to score the go-ahead goal and then Sawa comes back and scores again.

Or I actually don't know if she scored the first goal, but either way, in a matter of like a few minutes, I went from

probably winning the golden boot, the golden ball, and probably the FIFA player of the year in 2011.

Sawa scores,

ties it, sends it to penalty kicks.

We end up losing in penalty kicks.

I think because we had done penalty kicks two games prior and they were at ease,

they knew what was what was happening.

And what happened after that game?

So just as like a little context,

the tsunami in Japan happened earlier that year, and they had a massive devastation.

So this team was really trying to win in honor of those that were lost during the year.

Yes, and they were probably a symbol.

All the devastation.

And it was just this beautiful moment.

So here they are.

They win.

And I immediately run over because a lot of us are playing we have friends on the japanese team because they're playing in our professional league here so we know a few of them sawa was on my team so i ran over to sawa and i congratulated her and you know all the cameras i don't know this at the time but all the cameras were on me uh as i went over and i congratulated each and every one of the japanese players and so i think that the folks in japan thought that i was super honorable for being able to do that.

And ironically, I ended up getting called to go over to Japan to do a lot of game shows over there.

I was like a superstar in Japan.

She was.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, babe, this is now three World Cups.

See, this is what I think is fascinating when Abby tells me these stories is when people probably think of superheroes, they think, oh, they must have always been winning.

But this is three World Cups that Abby's been in, and each one have led to the agony of defeat.

Okay.

I just think it's interesting.

Like we think people who are great are always winning and that's not the way careers or lives go.

Usually a lot of not that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, a lot of people are like, oh my God, you won so much.

And while that's true, there were also three World Cup tournaments that I played in and lost.

Right.

So now, lovebug, take us to

2015.

We're going to circle back.

You go to that meeting with April.

April tells you you are on the team and you are starting.

Now we're in 2015.

You get the call.

They say you are on the team, but.

Yeah, I make the team in 2015

and I'm 35.

I'm old, getting slower.

Coaching staff calls me in and informs me that my role of starting for a women's national team is now going to change and that I would be coming off the bench.

Was that a surprise to you, Abid?

Yes.

So I had the wits about me at the very least.

I feel grateful for this that I excused myself.

I said, I'm going to need to come back.

Good for you.

I'll be back in a few minutes.

God, that's so wise.

And so I went into my room and I threw a bunch of shit around because though deep down I knew this was the right move,

I was hoping that nobody was seeing what I was feeling.

I was hoping that nobody knew that I was slowing down and that maybe I wasn't going to be able to play 90 minutes.

And, you know, the way that the World Cup works is your group stage games, if they end in a tie, then they end in a tie.

But as you get into the knockout round stage games, you have to go into extra time and potentially penalty kicks to determine the winner.

And there's no way at my age, I was going to be able to play 120 minutes.

And so, our coaching staff really wanted me on the field at the end of the games to ensure we could continue winning or to push for a goal.

And so, that was a devastation like no other, because, you know, like I said, my income earning power is based on not only minutes played, but goals scored, being on the field and getting recognized, like all of that really matters.

And so I felt like, oh shit, like this is going to be bad for me.

And it's also like a signal of like, oh, you're now on the back swing.

You're no longer at the prime.

You're like coming down from whatever height was your height.

Yeah.

In the climb of life, right?

I'm now on the downside.

And that's sad for a lot of reasons, but I didn't know how to be on the bench.

I knew that you could be a good bench player and I knew that you could be a bad bench player.

I have examples of both.

What's an example of both?

No, not people.

I mean behavior.

Well, I mean, being a good bench player is like cheering for your teammates while they're out there.

It's like getting water for them.

It's like communicating during halftime, like what you're seeing on the bench so that you can help those players be more successful.

A bad bench player is somebody who just sits on the bench and pouts and crosses their arm and says no words.

Got it.

And kind of slightly delights in bad things because they think if they were on the field, it would be different.

And that's evidence that they should be on the field.

That's exactly right.

And I realized, you know, when I excused myself from the coaches, when they informed me that I was going to be a bench player, I realized I had a choice.

I could be a good teammate or a bad teammate.

And I wish that I could sit here and say that I'm such a good person that I chose to be a good teammate.

But I actually played out both of those paths to the end.

And I saw what was going to be the thing that allowed us to be champions.

And it was being a good teammate.

I knew that as a veteran player, I knew that I had a lot of respect of the players who'd be on the field.

And I knew that I

actually believed in them and I was positive and affirming of what they were doing, that they would play better.

I just like knew that in my bones.

And

it was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.

It is not easy sitting on the bench and truly believing and truly cheering on the the players who you want to be on the field.

You want to be out there making a difference and scoring the goals.

And I think that when I look back now, the thing that I'm most fascinated by is that everything that I had yet to learn about leadership was in fact sitting right there on that bench next to me.

As we grow in our jobs, in our lives, with our children, in our families, our roles change.

And the way that we see ourselves has to be more honest, I think.

And because because I was able to be truly honest with myself and also competitive, I wanted to win.

I hadn't won a World Cup.

I mean, how ironic.

That's the ultimate competition.

Yes.

No, this isn't, I want to win.

So I'll do anything, even eat my own ego.

Yeah, I had to like actually live and breathe all the things that I was saying throughout my whole career.

Like, everybody matters and we need all energy pointing in the right direction.

Test these hypotheses that I've been preaching for 20 years.

But the irony is like, I spent three other World Cups on the field playing in almost every minute of every game for our team, and I couldn't win.

And then here we are with this opportunity for me to sit my ass on the bench, and then we go on and win the fucking thing.

Yeah.

So, like, wow, that is a slap to the ego if I've ever heard one.

Or maybe you were exactly what was needed.

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Tell me some of the strategies that you used to lead from the bench because you have actually passed these down to our kids.

They do them now.

Yeah, I made myself do a bunch of stuff proactively to make myself feel like I had more power than just sitting on the bench.

So I texted three players every single day, a veteran player, a middle range range player, and a bench player.

We called ourselves game changers.

It was a psychological tactic of our coaching staff to like, I don't know, I get it.

We're bench players, you know?

So I texted three players every single day when we're on the training field.

Something that I saw that like really awed me and made me like so fired up.

In fact, one of the players that I had texted a couple of days before playing Germany in the semis was Kelly O'Hara, who was also a game changer, a bench player with me.

And she ended up going on the field and scoring a goal as a game changer.

scoring a goal, putting us up two to zero and literally giving us that go-ahead goal, sending us to the finals.

Wow.

And after the game, she came up to me and she was like, dude, that was all you.

And I was like, no, it was not.

She did this awesome karate chop kick.

It was like, she just lunged her body in this very awkward, amazing way and scored this goal.

And I know deep down

that a lot of players stepped up in that World Cup.

Carly Lloyd had an incredible World Cup.

Alex Morgan had an amazing World Cup.

Megan.

But I also think that there was this

team collective unity that we were just going to win.

And in fact, we got into the the finals of that World Cup and

Carly just went off.

She scored three goals in the first like five seconds.

Like in the first 20 minutes of the game, we were up three to zero.

I think we ended up winning five to two or something.

But it was, I was on the field at the end.

And when that final whistle blew, I just, I fell to my knees, just like stunned.

And what was the overriding feeling in that moment?

well relief every single championship i've ever won it was just relief isn't that so interesting tell me what the the relief was

that i won't have to spend the rest of my life pissed off

honestly that's real swear to god relief that she doesn't have to spend the rest of her life miserable and pissed off that's amazing because That is truly how she felt that if they didn't win a World Cup, the sad thing would be that her, the rest of her life would be terrible.

Yeah, I mean, because here's the thing, like

logically, I know that my life would not have been terrible, but that is the kind of mentality that you have to have.

Absolutely.

The way that these tournaments go, there's so many factors that are out of your control.

Another team plays incredible, the referee, whatever, the temperature, the field, the rain.

I don't know.

There's so much that's out of your control.

And so you have to create a controllable world psychologically.

And so it's like,

I'm going to be fucking misery.

That's pretty motivating.

Yes.

Like, you know what I mean?

At the end of a game and you are exhausted, you think,

this is just temporary.

I don't, I want to prevent a forever misery by this temporary pain that I'm feeling right now.

So you win.

And I mean,

you're not on the bench anymore, but

you learned how to lead from the bench and you go in.

And now you lead from home.

Like, if you, that's what, if you knew how many texts and messages this woman sends to whether it's Kristen Press or Becky Sauerbert or Alex,

she's constantly.

And I want to tell you that last weekend, our youngest was in a big soccer tournament and they lost this heartbreaking game.

They'd made it really far and they'd lost.

And we were on our way home and Amma was on her phone and I said something to get her off her phone like we do.

And

she had texting every single, all the girls on the team, just saying how proud she was of each of them and what they had done.

And it was only because she sees Abby doing that.

It's just the most beautiful form of leadership.

I just think that you are so wonderful.

Well, there's a little audacity in it.

I know that none of these players need my input.

I know that.

I actually believe that they are

capable and and strong, the current team that's going in 2023.

But I also know

how important it is

for them to know that we are here for them

in any like instance if they feel, if they feel like they need us.

And by the way, they would never text me and be like, I need to talk.

That's not something that would happen.

It's just like, hey,

saw the game.

Keep going.

I love that run or

I love that goal, whatever it is.

And as a forward, the way practices are kind of organized, you spend a lot of time with the other forwards because you're

training that.

And so when other forwards are doing really well, or I can see maybe a little need for a confidence boost, I'll just send like a text a real quick like, hey,

keep going, you know, because I know what Alex was doing when she was 21, 22 on the team, scared out of her mind about playing in the World Cup or the Olympics.

And

I know how daunting it can feel to be in the biggest tournament and also how overwhelming it can be.

And just to give like one or two pieces of like, focus on your touch.

That can drown out all of the overwhelm.

Yeah.

If you just focus your attention on like one or two small things that you can do every game.

And also, it makes me feel like I'm still a part of it.

Like that's also, it's like not just for them, it's also for myself.

Yeah.

Well,

pod squad, we are watching the World Cup.

We are going to be leading from the couch.

The U.S.

women's national team kicks off their pursuit for another Women's World Cup championship tomorrow, Friday, July 21st at 9 p.m.

Eastern, 6 p.m.

Pacific against Vietnam in the U.S.

The live broadcast will be on Fox and Fox Sports One.

Y'all, tune in.

Did you say it starts at nine o'clock?

6 p.m.

Pacific.

Oh, oh, God, thank God.

I love living in California.

But there is one game that's going to be a midnight start.

I can do one.

I can do one.

Pod squad, we will see you on the pitch.

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