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Welcome back to the most delightful week ever on We Can Do Hard

tuesday we spoke with ross gay about how to notice delight and joy in our everyday lives and yesterday we shared our own personal delightful things so today we thought we'd close the week by bringing you something special so that we're not just discussing delight but we're actually experiencing it together

Today we welcome a pair of talented musicians and love bugs having an incredible moment right now with a video for their vival track, If I Were a Fish.

I think it now has like 18.1 million views on the TikTok.

I don't know.

So Karouk wrote this song called CGI about being kind of like an underdog, they say, that somehow got the girl of their dreams.

After they published that song, they got so many hateful responses from the lovely interwebs that they were devastated.

Okay, so they sat with that devastation for a while, mined it for gold, and then created the song, If I Were a Fish.

They took that shit from the internet and they turned it into joyful gold,

which we are obsessed with.

And so we invited them here.

I have to tell you too, Karuk and Olivia, that Abby and I are old,

and

we were standing in our kitchen one night recently.

And our daughters listened to a thing called the TikTok.

Okay?

The TikTok, yes.

We are on the Instagram because we are a different queer generation from you.

Understood.

Okay, thank you.

Sometimes we see what you're doing on the TikTok through something called the reels.

Okay.

About a year and a half later than you're doing them.

Okay.

So what happened is Amma Amma was in the kitchen playing this song and I was like, what the hell is that song?

That is the best song I've ever heard.

And

Abby, me, Tish, Amma, we sat around and sang your song that night.

And I don't know, it was the antidote of everything terrible.

Yeah.

You are the antidote of everything terrible.

That's good.

No pressure.

Oh, that is so cool.

That's the coolest compliment I've ever gotten.

That's for sure.

Can you just tell us, before we get into your song, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself and how the hell all this happened?

Because,

I mean, apparently I'm not the only person who thought that that song was the best thing ever.

I think there's something like 20 million other people at this point who also agreed.

How the hell did this all happen for you two?

So we're both musicians.

Yes, you are.

Live in Nashville.

We've been making, do you want me to turn a talk?

Okay, it's basically, oh my gosh, you do what I do with Flint.

You're the Abby.

Yes.

You're the Abby to her.

Yes, we are a couple.

We live together.

We live here in Nashville together.

We have a dog.

And

yeah, we make music all the time.

And that separately and together.

Most of the time separately, but this time was together.

Right.

And yeah, that day specifically was like just a really hard day on the internet, which I'm sure you know about me too I was just getting a lot of hate comments and continue to you know and

it's a really hard thing to deal with especially as somebody that like

I'm just coming into my adulthood and accepting myself for who I am I recently came out as non-binary and

so To be getting these hate comments during this time that I'm like

trying

come to terms with like who I am and love myself has been really hard.

And so I kind of brought that to Olivia.

And she was like, well, yeah, you're weird.

And that's awesome.

And I love that about you.

And let's like put this into something good.

And let's make a song about how weird you are.

What's like the weirdest thing?

that you can think of and I was like well if I were a fish I think all the weird things about me would be cool Yes.

Right?

They were like, I feel like all these things that people are hating on me for just because I was a human.

But if I was just like something else, they would think it was like super cool that I was like big and colorful and weird.

I would be like a catch.

And she was like, that's the weirdest thing I've ever heard.

Let's do that.

Yeah.

It's perfect.

Oh my God.

Okay, now I thought we were just going to talk about the song, but you're just such love bugs.

What?

How did you meet and fall?

What is this story?

Oh.

Well,

we have

identified with you guys a lot because I was in a straight relationship and Cryn came along.

Sort of the rest is history, I guess.

I don't know.

We met in Boston.

We went to school in Boston, music school.

We met there.

It was quite the U-Haul situation.

Love, if not at first sight, very quickly thereafter.

And so we've been together for almost five years.

June is our five-year anniversary.

Yeah.

That's so

like we've lived a lot of life in the last five years because this is just this time, you know, you're like mid-20s is just so much change, so much self-discovery.

So we've seen lots of versions of each other at this point.

I like that.

Lots of versions of each other.

It's really cool.

And it also gets better.

And you know, I just want to tell everybody who's listening.

I made Amma show me your various TikTok sites and such.

And there are so many beautiful songs.

Yeah, fish is just one of them.

They're all so good.

And they're all about being human.

And they're so honest.

They made me feel less alone.

You all are doing really, really beautiful things.

I didn't know that If I Were a Fish is a gay anthem.

It's so fucking cool.

I didn't know that.

I literally.

yeah yeah

you could smell it yeah yeah you could

you could smell something's fishy here yeah

no that was good it was really good yeah um what's it been like with all this like attention now like what is it okay are you freaking out are you are you okay oh yeah you're oh we're freaking out yeah

yeah are you getting asked to do like the lots of gigs and all the things now like are you proper rock stars proper rocks i don't know we'll see yeah my year is insane right now i can't believe like all the things that i have they're all like wonderful but like also really hard to get used to in terms of like scheduling and like what my life was going to look like throughout the next six months but yeah it's been like a struggle of like

that and like trying to be in the moment and love everything and accept all the love that we have been given, you know, and also try to combat the hate comments and try not to look at those.

I personally am having a much harder time than you maybe

around that.

I think it's just

with the sheer volume of attention,

there's going to be

difficulty to that.

My dad put it really well when we were talking to my parents about just how it feels to receive all that attention and the negative and the positive.

And my dad was talking about the law of,

gosh, I don't know anything about science guys but basically it was like the an equal reaction like an equal like so the amount of positivity

yes there you go amanda yeah uh the amount of of positivity you're putting out like it's attracting the opposite and so almost like to gauge how much joy you're putting into the world uh like like looking at that negativity as a way to gauge like how much of yourself you're putting into it that's right yeah it's so good i mean i from coming from a sports background I used to get called dyke.

I'd be booed out in stadiums, like harsh, harsh shit.

And I realized as I got older and maybe my stats kind of started to go down as they do when you get a little bit older, they stopped booing me as much.

And I was like, oh,

they were scared of me.

That's what that

was or jealous or whatever.

It had nothing to do with them like not accepting me.

They just like were worried about me, like crushing them, you know?

And I think the same goes for all the trolls and all the negativity that happens in social media.

So I think your dad's on something.

And listen, I can see in your face, little one pink fish.

You are going to have to be careful with this, with paying attention to this shit.

Because I think Olivia is all right with this, but I'm relating to you right now.

And

in order to do the art that you're meant to do, you're going to have to stay really soft-skinned.

I'm just, that's so funny you say that.

Like,

I think this whole thing has been a lesson of how sensitive I am.

And coming into my adulthood, is that something I have been accepting for the first time?

It's like, I am sensitive, and that hurt my feelings.

Yes.

And, like,

I'm over here all the time.

I'm hurt all the time.

But Corinne has been the one pretending like they're not hurt.

And now they're like,

I think I am hurt.

So that's a gift.

Look at you.

You're a sensitive little fish.

And I think that there's so much, so much art to make from that.

Yes.

Is what I've learned.

That's just where my best stuff comes from.

And I just, I do.

You're right.

I have to stay open and soft.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I had this friend named Rachel Held Evans and she has passed, but she used to get lots of hate mail.

And she would print it out and then she would.

sit in her room and turn it all into origami, into little teeny swans.

Quite literally.

my God.

Making art out of it.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

But you don't have to make art right away because that's just hustle culture.

All right.

So you're allowed to feel the feelings, sit in it, and then make something beautiful eventually.

I would also have people around you that can armor for you, that can kind of protect you from some of the stuff.

Like Amanda has been Glennon's kind of blocker.

The blocker of stuff.

So it allows Glennon to be open.

And then I came along and helped in that department.

So I just pretend everybody likes me.

And then it gives me,

I do.

That's good.

You know, our, our mutual best friend told us the other day that he read some of the hate comments and Corinne started to cry and was like, I didn't realize how good that would feel for like someone else to even just like know what is being said.

And yeah, yeah.

That was a good one.

Yeah.

And it's not creative.

That's the other thing.

I can tell you guys respect creativity.

That it's only going to be the same same five things over and over again forever.

You don't have to read it anymore.

You've already seen it all.

You're so right.

You're so right.

We needed you guys.

I thought you were interviewing us, but really, we're just like soaking in all your wisdom.

Guys, you want to know what's funny?

What's funny?

Tell us something funny.

Don't tell him.

We didn't know that we were going to meet you guys today.

What?

You guys came on and we were like, we were like, oh, we're going to talk to them now.

Okay.

Yeah.

What podcast did you think you were on?

Well, did you get tricked?

We thought it was called Different Lights Podcast.

But theirs is called We Can Do Hard Things.

And so we were like, we didn't know what's happening.

And they were like, okay, we're just going to meet the people we've been listening to for years.

It's fine.

Oh, yeah.

So

we're happy to be here.

Yeah.

And listen, like to walk the walk that you guys are walking,

everything

that comes your way will help you.

learn something more about yourself.

Like when something hurts that you read, you're like, ooh, I didn't know that that was something that I needed to uncover.

I didn't know that that hasn't been resolved for me.

So like, for me, people always are misgendering me.

They think that I'm a dude.

It's fine.

I dress down binary.

It's kind of part of the, the fun that I like to have.

But it, it actually like really upsets me.

So every time I read those comments that like, you're just a guy or whatever, I'm, I'm immediately reminded, oh, you still have work to do here on that.

You still have work to do here on that.

Just something to think about.

Or you could also just catch and release.

True,

bless and block.

We call it bless and block.

We love a good block party.

Yes, we do.

Yeah.

I also think that most people spend their entire lives

scared to death that people are going to say something or other.

Oh my God.

Like they spend their entire lives making decisions, not doing the thing just to avoid someone saying the thing.

Yeah.

So when someone says the thing and it's public, you're free yeah oh yeah you guys are right there's nothing to be afraid of anymore that's right the worst has been said the worst came and it's not so bad still alive still breathing still doing the thing yeah still

fishing over there still fishing we love you and and if you need help we can be your your queer old reels aunties you already have done that

um I just love that this is what we're talking about because the genesis of the song was about this.

And we actually haven't talked about about this with in any with anybody at this point so i i think that if there's time i would like to bring up one delightful thing please yeah

about the experience which i don't think is talked about enough cool i love this from that whole genesis of the song of me saying this hurts help me you didn't go oh no no no no it's okay it's okay it's okay like let's just do this and we'll do this and we'll do this and it'll be fine don't worry you don't have to feel that way you were like ouch

what do you want to do about it let's let's make something out of this and i think that for us that has been like a really long road of getting to a place where we can hold space for each other's pain

and

i think that also that's part of why the video is so big because they can sense between us just how much there is and for me it's healing yeah and we we wouldn't have gotten to that place if we hadn't spent the couple hours before it, like really going there together and crying about it together, and then getting up and

doing that.

Yeah,

delight.

You too,

you too are a delight.

Will you sing the song for us?

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, wait, we set this up early.

Okay, we're gonna have to switch our little mics.

All righty.

Oh my god, I'm so excited.

Okay, we're not gonna sing.

I don't know if it's gonna be possible

and then we'll sing it again later, but I want to hear the rest.

I'm muting myself.

It's just gonna accidentally.

I'm just gonna,

go ahead and make it a little bit okay.

No, that comes closer.

Yeah,

ready?

Okay, not too close to that one.

Okay.

Ready?

Maybe.

Thanks.

If I were fish and you caught me, you'd say, look at that fish shimmering in the sun.

Such a rare one.

Can't believe that you caught one.

If I were a fish and you caught me, you'd say, look at that fish, heaviest in the sea.

You'd win first prize if you caught me.

Why is everybody on the internet so mean?

Why is everybody so afraid of what they've never seen?

If I were scrolling through and I saw me

flopping around and singing my song, I'd say, damn, they're cute and sing along.

If I were a rock, you would pick me up and say, That's a nice rock, skippiest on the lake.

Plop, plop, plop, I'm the perfect shape.

And if I were a sock, you would put me on and say, That's a nice sock, happiest as a pair.

I found you now, I'm not scared.

Why is everybody on the internet so mean?

Why is everybody so afraid of what they've never seen?

If I was strolling through and I saw me

flopping around and singing my song,

I'd say, damn, they're cute.

And sing along.

How lucky are we?

All the fish in the sea.

You get to be you,

and I get to be me.

Just let them be me.

Where's risk in me

to be the east of you

and the beast of me

If I were fish did it

do

If I were fish did it

do

Oh

Yes, it's so fun

the delight

So you too, this is your permission to go forth and be artists,

thinkers, and seers and feelers and noticers and observers of things, and not to be

lawyers who follow around your art and defend it and forever defend your right to make art.

You don't have to do that.

That's what takes people out of the game.

Not because they're not artists, but because they're not lawyers.

Oh my

goodness gracious.

You don't know how badly we needed to hear that.

If the question is, do you get to make beautiful shit and put it out in the world?

The answer is

absolutely.

The rest you don't have to do.

Okay?

Right.

Because we're going to be doing it.

Okay.

We need you to keep doing this.

Thank you.

We love you both.

Call your

queer Instagram aunties if you need us.

Beautiful.

Okay.

All three of you are our aunties.

Thank you.

We love you.

What a delight you are.

Thanks for coming on.

Thank you.

Thank Thank you so much.

Bye, Pod Small.

Thank you, guys.

Bye.

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