205. Why Good Photos Make Us Feel Bad

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Speaker 2 Hello, love bugs.

Speaker 3 Welcome. And welcome to We Can Do Hard Things.

Speaker 2 You got your sexy voice on right now, honey. Thank you.
Thank you.

Speaker 3 Now that I know how to talk dirty for an episode,

Speaker 3 which I am still repeating.

Speaker 2 I was a crazy

Speaker 2 prior episode with Vanessa.

Speaker 3 Sister, what you don't know is when that episode went live, I was

Speaker 2 a horrible person in my home that morning.

Speaker 3 I was so vulnerability hungover.

Speaker 3 Do you remember that, babe? Oh, yeah. I was,

Speaker 2 oh,

Speaker 3 you do this podcast, right? And it's a cone of safety and love. And you feel as if you're in this room with the pod squad.

Speaker 3 And so you can talk about anything and do anything. And then Abby and I go out into the world.
So what I want every with the pod squad to imagine is going to like your kids' school event that night,

Speaker 3 feeling normal because you've forgotten what your job is.

Speaker 2 And the PGA president is like, it feels good when you you go slow.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 3 Or they're giggling at you, just giggling.

Speaker 3 Or people will say, you're so brave.

Speaker 3 Nothing scares me more than when someone says you're so brave because that just means you've done something that you shouldn't do.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Foolish.

Speaker 3 You've done something foolish that other people who are wise would never do.

Speaker 2 Or

Speaker 3 it's like, like, okay, for example, talking about

Speaker 3 my mental health or the anorexia stuff. So it's one thing you're talking about sex and everyone's giggling and like, oh my God.

Speaker 3 But then also, when we air something that's like deep and personal, people will come up to me with this look of just sadness. And I've forgotten what's going on.
I'm just like out in the world.

Speaker 3 People are like handing me a flower. Are you okay?

Speaker 3 Anyway.

Speaker 2 And you're like, what episode are you on? So I know how to answer that.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 3 So I'm doing well this morning, y'all. I just, as Abby knows, because that's where I was for the last 15 minutes, I just finished my day 18 of a 21-day

Speaker 3 meditation challenge.

Speaker 2 What happens on day 22?

Speaker 3 Well, I don't know. I probably won't get there for like six more months because I started, you guys, I started.

Speaker 3 I just checked when I started this meditation, this 21-day meditation challenge was on December 4th, 2022.

Speaker 3 So, it's been six months and I'm on day 18.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 It doesn't need to be consecutive.

Speaker 2 You don't want to overdo it. You don't want to rush things.
I mean, I think it is supposed to be consecutive. It doesn't say that.
I know, but I think that it's implied.

Speaker 3 It doesn't say it.

Speaker 3 17 days and six months is better than no days.

Speaker 2 It's true.

Speaker 2 It's true.

Speaker 2 It's really good.

Speaker 3 How are you two doing, sister? How was your vacation? You were just on vacation.

Speaker 2 We just had a trip for spring break.

Speaker 2 Not a vacation. It's not a vacation.
A trip. Unless you're a lot of people.

Speaker 2 And luckily we had our flight canceled so we spent two solid days trying to figure out another flight we were actually considering getting in the car and driving to meet our connection flight and on hold with the airlines for like seven hours also there's a problem there we should just footnote can someone please fix that industry because there's

Speaker 2 How are they hire more people? They're like, we can't get to you for six hours. It's like, yes, you could if you had the appropriate number of people answering the phone.
My favorite.

Speaker 2 It's not impossible. My favorite act of God.
My favorite is,

Speaker 3 this has happened to me twice. Go up to the ticket place, say, I'm here for my flight.

Speaker 3 And they say, we don't have a seat for you. And I say, oh, no, no, I bought a seat.
And they're like, yeah,

Speaker 3 we see that. We just couldn't keep it.

Speaker 2 Right. The important part of the reservation is the keeping of the reservation.

Speaker 3 Yeah. No accountability.
Zero accountability. It's like the weather reporters.
Weather reporters, they can just say whatever the hell they want.

Speaker 2 No accountability. And unfortunately, the weather people and the airline people are in cahoots to ruin our lives.
And I say to John, I say,

Speaker 2 with this kind of logistical nightmare and frustration, I could get that for free at work. Exactly.

Speaker 2 Why am I going to pay money to get this thing that I get on the regular just as part of my daily life? But luckily we get there. And then the next day we have

Speaker 2 pictures on the beach, you know, quote unquote free pictures on the beach, which means they don't charge you for that, but then they charge you like a mortgage payment for procuring the pictures after they take them.

Speaker 2 And Alice proceeds to vomit.

Speaker 2 on the beach

Speaker 2 while the woman is taking her pictures. Oh, please tell me you got those photos.
Yes, because those would be

Speaker 2 taking them with the picture. That's like the fortunate 30-year-old, like looking back at the trip you took.
Oh, no.

Speaker 3 Was she sick or just upset?

Speaker 2 She was sick and then she slept for like 12 hours. So I'm like, well, that's really expensive nap we're taking for this week.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 I just got me thinking about pictures. And I just, I think we should talk about pictures in Picture Day because it's like we're trying to document the best

Speaker 2 moments of our life, but they're, they're the worst moments of our life.

Speaker 2 It is a terrible,

Speaker 2 I've never been more angry and frustrated with my family than when we are taking the beautiful, loving family photo. I've seen it in action.

Speaker 3 I've seen it in action.

Speaker 2 I've seen Amanda in action.

Speaker 3 And by the way, poor sister, because there's only been like three times that we've ever taken a picture of our family, right?

Speaker 2 Yes. Never happened.
That's why it's so fraught. I'm like, this is my one for this half decade.

Speaker 2 Make it good, assholes.

Speaker 3 So, the three times around Christmas that we have tried to get a picture, the second someone says, Let's get a family picture, sister's husband looks

Speaker 2 terrified. PTSD.
Yeah. Terrified.
I have PTSD watching it.

Speaker 3 Terrified because.

Speaker 3 Well, sister, why don't you explain in your own words what happens in your body when you are trying to get a family picture?

Speaker 2 Well, it's really just feels like this is, you know, I'm not throwing away my shot. You know, this is my one chance.

Speaker 2 And everybody sit and look like we love each other and be the appropriate distance from each other. And just for all I'm asking is for one second to look in the same place.
Just one second.

Speaker 2 Don't look miserable and look in the same place. I don't think that's a hard thing to ask every five years.
No, I don't.

Speaker 3 I really don't. I think it's deeper.
I think it's like a symbol or a microcosm of what you feel all year, which is why doesn't anyone fucking care about this as much as I do?

Speaker 3 Why won't anyone put in the goddamn effort to be a family that it takes from everyone?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Pull a little weight, you small people and you large person.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 One thing that actually has happened to me recently, because I've been looking through a lot of old family photos and photo albums.

Speaker 2 I have always been the person in this experience that's like, this is not that fucking big of a deal. Can't we just like be here with each other and not need to document it? That's been my mentality.

Speaker 2 But after looking back at these photos and now I'm getting a little bit older, I'm like, oh,

Speaker 2 these moments to capture and to remember, because you forget, like we don't remember everything. And when you see the photo, it's a chance to remember.
And what we are is,

Speaker 2 I feel, is just a whole bunch of memories, like our whole lives, you know?

Speaker 2 And most importantly, we're not remembering the memories. We're remembering what we see in the picture as if it represents the memory.

Speaker 2 And that's important.

Speaker 2 So, for example, if we get a picture from the beach trip, I'm going to say, hey, baby, remember this was the best day of your life. And so she's going to be like, yes, it was.

Speaker 3 And it's so true because I have, and sister, we've talked about this so much.

Speaker 2 I'm going to say.

Speaker 3 It's a little bit different now because the kids are older, but when, for most of our family life,

Speaker 3 when I'm on a trip with the family, I am not enjoying myself. I'm in the moment, I am not having fun.
Trips with families are not fun. And if it's fun for you, congratulations.

Speaker 3 But in the moment, it's not. It's like you've paid this money.
You want everything to be perfect. Your people suck.
It's so much effort. It's all, but.
Something magical happens afterwards.

Speaker 3 And you're like, that was so fun. Yeah.
That was, it's the after, it's retroactive joy, it's not joyful in the moment. And the picture represents that retroactive joy.

Speaker 2 We just replace all of our miserable memories with that one shot, which is why we don't have proof of your misery, all we have is proof of this really smiley picture.

Speaker 2 So it's your memory versus this picture, and we're going with the picture.

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Speaker 2 off.

Speaker 2 I had a recent actual picture epiphany because this is outside of the family picture phenomenon, which is just too fraught. We'd need an expert on to really delve deep into that one.
But

Speaker 2 we do twice a year pictures at school, the kiddos.

Speaker 2 And it's always like, picture day coming up. You have to sign up for the thing.
You know, they're like, if you want three pictures, that'll be $750,000.

Speaker 3 How much do you love your kid? How much do you love your kid? Yeah. Because if you have your kid, you will order the $786 package.

Speaker 2 Are you going to get the one with emblazoned and foiled gold?

Speaker 3 That comes with four jog leashes with your kid's face on it and 16 Christmas ornaments and a dreidel.

Speaker 2 But recently, so I,

Speaker 2 again, we don't have many pictures of our family. So actually, my kids keep asking every time the holidays come around, we get all the pictures in the mail of like people's cards.

Speaker 2 And my kids are like, huh,

Speaker 2 when are we going to do one of these?

Speaker 2 I'm like, oh, eventually, eventually, Bobby's like, I'm 10.

Speaker 2 Well, let's wait till you're 11. We don't want to push it.

Speaker 3 That's like Emma. She's always like, where are the pictures of me? And I just show her pictures of Tish when Tish was a baby and say that.
They look very similar. They do.
No one can prove it.

Speaker 2 No, exactly. So it's Picture Day.
We pick out the clothes for Bobby and Alice, pick out Alice's clothes. I like braid her hair, put her in the dress.
And she gets home from picture day

Speaker 2 and she sits me down like she's going to tell me something important. And she goes,

Speaker 2 Mom,

Speaker 2 actually,

Speaker 2 I am really not a dressy person.

Speaker 2 I'm more of a casual person. Is that what she says?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 She said, I'm more of a casual person.

Speaker 2 And she said, is it okay if I don't wear a dress for picture day anymore? Will that make you sad?

Speaker 2 And I had this crazy experience because I was like on many levels, of course. And I was like,

Speaker 2 Of course, you can wear whatever you like to wear on Picture Day.

Speaker 2 And I said to her,

Speaker 2 What I want is a picture that looks like you. Yes.
Not to make you look like a picture I want.

Speaker 2 Which

Speaker 2 is what I had been doing.

Speaker 2 It's such a wild thing. Like a picture is supposed to document a person, but I wasn't documenting her as she shows up at Tuesday to school.

Speaker 2 I was thinking of the picture I wanted to have and then conforming the way she looked. to look like that picture.

Speaker 2 It seems silly, but this message that I send send when I get her all dolled up to look like something that doesn't look like she naturally looks like is telling her that the way she is, as she is, is not worthy of documenting.

Speaker 2 Oh, like it's like, it's not something that I would love to see. It's not something I would feel proud to send to her grandparents or see in the yearbook.

Speaker 2 In this very subtle way, it's like she needs to be improved or altered to be acceptable and celebrated in this photograph. Yikes.

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 2 the elementary school photos that we get home on the thing where you give them $850,000 for

Speaker 2 your wallet size because everyone's around there carrying wallets on a wallet-size photograph.

Speaker 3 You know how you pull out your bill fold or whatever and you just show your friends.

Speaker 2 Me, myself, I use a money clip, but I make sure I have all the wallet-sized photos in there. Next to your pocket watch.
Yes,

Speaker 2 the elementary school photos give you the option for retouching.

Speaker 2 I kid you not.

Speaker 2 The kids' photos.

Speaker 2 The six-year-olds.

Speaker 2 And I just think that there's this really, like, I sat and thought about it for way too long, but there's a real thread between me sending her that message, sending my eight-year-old the message that she needs to wear this dress that she would never ever choose to wear and get her hair braided in a a way that is uncomfortable for her.

Speaker 2 And the millions of women who step out of photographs because they're not ready yet.

Speaker 2 They're not ready for a photo.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, that's crazy not being ready. But I get her very ready for her photos.
And

Speaker 2 then you got this retouching thing. And then 90% of women use a filter.

Speaker 2 or edit their photos before posting them. And I'm like, that's crazy.
It's so interesting. It is.
It's just the little subtle things that we think are these benign things that are planting the seeds.

Speaker 2 It's a little story of my life. This is literally how I grew up where I had, my mom would put me in dresses.

Speaker 2 I mean, I was a bridesmaid in my brother's wedding, and I had to wear one of those, you know, dark cranberry-colored,

Speaker 2 what is it called? Dresses.

Speaker 2 Strapless dresses.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. How old were you when you wore a strapless dress i mean i must have been 25.

Speaker 2 i don't know oh oh god you were like i was old i was old and you know i just had to in my mind i knew i was like okay i

Speaker 2 i'm just gonna do this because this is what the bride wants and then as i got older i had the option i was in another person's wedding and they're like wear a suit just wear it the same color that the bridesmaids are wearing and i was like that is so nice but what i want to say to to you about Alice coming home and feeling like she can tell you this,

Speaker 2 that is not something that was an option for me. I just had to grin and bear it because I,

Speaker 2 yeah, literally grin and bear it. What the hell is this?

Speaker 3 You guys, this is big. I feel like this is big.
I don't know how to, it's just like this.

Speaker 3 Because we're doing the same thing with the vacations. Like when you said, sissy, the point of a picture is to document what a person looks like.

Speaker 3 that is not our intention oh no it's definitely not my intention no but but it could be right right when you went to take your family vacation picture and so you stopped your family vacation made everyone miserable made them dress up in the shit stand made my daughter vomit made your daughter throw up stood in front of the waves That was not a picture of your family vacation at all.

Speaker 2 Exactly. There's a deviation from that.

Speaker 3 You deviated your family vacation to take a picture. Well, it's the theme of this podcast.
The thing that screws us up the most is the picture in our head of how it's supposed to be.

Speaker 2 The picture in our head that we think we should have.

Speaker 3 Right. Exactly.

Speaker 3 You look at your kid, your precious little kid who's wearing her scrappy little shit and her hair's all messed up and she's out in the backyard doing your thing.

Speaker 3 If you were going to take a picture of what your kid is,

Speaker 3 you would take a picture of her right there in the backyard.

Speaker 3 Or you would send her along to school looking like the ragamuffin she is so that in 10 years, you could look back and be like, I remember that. That's my baby.

Speaker 3 As opposed to this set of 12 pictures where your kid looks nothing like, it's like an Alice impersonator.

Speaker 3 I was reading this book recently and this woman said when she forgets what her life was like, she goes back and scrolls through her social media to find out what her life was like.

Speaker 3 And I was like, oh my God, no, no, no, that's not, that's something else.

Speaker 3 Right? That's not even our life.

Speaker 3 That's our pictures of what we think other people will like to see about what our life was, but it's 12-step remove from what is, from what our people actually are, and from what our daily moments are.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Maybe we should just start committing to like, what is it called when you're just. taking a photo of what's happening.

Speaker 3 People do that in other cultures.

Speaker 2 Candid. Candidate.
Candid. Candidate.

Speaker 3 Well, we pose the shit out of our candid candid pictures why are we doing this it's not always been like this and it's not always like this like it is a distinctly american thing to create the perfect situation have everyone stop and look at a camera and smile smile big there's a lot of people who think we all look ridiculous in all of our pictures because why are you guys always smiling fakely that's so true in a lot of places when someone takes a picture people just kind of turn and look how they look yeah that's so true i mean i've traveled the world and that is very true of so many different countries i've traveled to people they just stand there yeah and also old photos they're not smiling no and it looks so sad i'm i'm conditioned to believe these people are really upset why did they only take pictures of sad people they look pissed because mostly we're all sad

Speaker 2 I mean, there's a few reasons for that. It was the exposure time period.
The first photo was eight hours. So you can't have any movement.
Like you have to be totally, totally still. Oh my God.

Speaker 2 Imagine how family photos feel. Imagine how that photo.
Yeah, exactly. It takes me eight hours to get a picture of everyone looking at the same picture.
It's the dot, people. Look at the dot.

Speaker 2 Also, they didn't have good dental hygiene, so you couldn't show your teeth. Also, it was seen as you only smiled freely and widely if you were like wild or drunk.
So it wasn't socially acceptable.

Speaker 2 Same with the Asian countries. Typically, large shows of emotions are not

Speaker 2 as culturally accepted.

Speaker 3 But we could be saying the same thing. Why are wild,

Speaker 3 ridiculous smiles not natural? Because only drunk people and Americans look like that. It's fake.
Look at how happy we are. I think it's baked into us.
Like it's our pursuit of happiness. Look at us.

Speaker 3 Look at us. Look at our pursuit of happiness.
I've been reading all these articles about, you know, they put out this study. It's Finland again, once again, is the happiest country in the world.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 all the Americans are turning that into 700,000 articles about what we can learn from Finland about being happier. But the more I read these articles, when they interview that Finnish people,

Speaker 3 they're like, I mean,

Speaker 3 I guess we're fine.

Speaker 3 We're finished. Like, we're not.

Speaker 2 We're Finnish and we're Finish.

Speaker 3 None of these people are like, well, here's, I'm following my bliss and I'm blah, blah, blah, blah. They're like, I think what you Americans are calling happy is like, we're just okay with

Speaker 3 not being that happy.

Speaker 2 We're okay with not pursuing.

Speaker 3 We're not pursuing it. We don't pursue it.

Speaker 2 They're all pursuing contentedness.

Speaker 3 Yeah, they're just like, this is life, and this is being human. And it's all these different feelings.
And we are finished

Speaker 2 with that.

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Speaker 2 Well, actually, interestingly, not to go too far on a cultural tangent. No, you know you hate that.

Speaker 3 Sister never does that.

Speaker 2 I know. There's nothing I hate more than that.
But interestingly, Americans

Speaker 2 do smile so much more. And there is research that suggests that since

Speaker 2 the U.S. is so heterogeneous, so we have like

Speaker 2 so many source countries as a country of immigration.

Speaker 2 as opposed to the super homogeneous countries, you know, China, Zimbabwe, where there's just a few nationalities, they see a direct correlation between the expression of smile

Speaker 2 with the immigrant heavy countries, because coming here, we had to have emotional expressiveness to find people that were safe, to make connections.

Speaker 2 Whereas if you are a country where it's more homogeneous, you're coming from your people and of your people, you know who your people are.

Speaker 2 And so there's like this really interesting thread through that where you have to build mutual cooperation.

Speaker 2 And the way you signal that to each other is through this emotional expression, which I think is fascinating.

Speaker 3 That's cool. So does that show that when we feel safe, when we already have our people, when we have emotional safety, we are

Speaker 3 forced to smile less because we have

Speaker 3 peace. Like performance.
We're not desperate for tribal protection. So it is a performance.
It's a calling in of help. It's a please accept me.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I think it's performance.
It's a, it's thou doth protest too much. Yeah.
You need all your pictures to be like, I'm the happiest family. Look at me.
We're so happy.

Speaker 2 Well, I'm grinning through my teeth. Look at the camera.

Speaker 2 In fact, there's these things like when McDonald's. went to Russia and they did all their trainings when they were setting up McDonald's there and they were like, look at the people, smile.

Speaker 2 They had to totally revamp it because people were like, what the fuck is going on at McDonald's?

Speaker 3 They're like, everyone at McDonald's is wasted and I don't feel safe ordering.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 2 Same with Target. You know, like the greeters at Target? When they set those up

Speaker 2 in Germany, the Germans were like,

Speaker 2 oh, hell no.

Speaker 2 Target.

Speaker 2 Like, as we come in and they're like, welcome, smile. And they're like, y'all have to change that because no one's going back to Target.
The Target. Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 It's so fascinating. I've been thinking a lot about pictures lately because I'm trying not to

Speaker 3 be disembodied anymore.

Speaker 3 And so if I'm using a camera at all, I'm trying to see, take pictures of something that brings me joy.

Speaker 3 Like the other day,

Speaker 3 Amma had a bunch of kids over. And I think I sent this picture to you.
Yeah. There's just like a pile of shoes, of teenage girls' shoes, just all over the foyer.
And I was like, that's like my church.

Speaker 3 That pile of shoes, because that signals to me that this house is full of kids and that they feel safe here, but none of the kids are in my view. They're all in the basement.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It's a representation of children, but not actual children.

Speaker 3 This is the picture in my head of how things should be.

Speaker 3 But what are you thinking about with little ones still?

Speaker 2 I don't do social media. So I don't have that conflict that I feel like a lot of people have where they have to like, oh, this is my vacation and I have to,

Speaker 2 you know, put up these photos to prove what we're doing. So I don't, I think it's really nice that I don't have that option because I think it would be in the back of my mind a lot.

Speaker 2 In fact, I just heard for the first time. This is probably like a very old expression.

Speaker 2 Someone said, oh, my last vacation, it rained the entire time where they were on some island and I had to force book these photos because I was miserable.

Speaker 3 What does that mean?

Speaker 2 It's you're posting things to Facebook, but you're force booking them. Meaning like you're actually miserable, but you're posting a photo that is representing your experience as positive.
Whoa.

Speaker 3 And what is the intention of that?

Speaker 3 Because actually a ruined nightmare family situation is such good content.

Speaker 2 That's funny.

Speaker 3 Like having a miserable time is like funny and connective. So what, what is that?

Speaker 2 And I think it's also like the everybody else is posting their pictures. Maybe you're like, we also did a thing.
I don't know. Or maybe it's your self-justifying because you're like, we

Speaker 2 invested in this vacation. It took us all this time.
And I will have a receipt to show something for my efforts. I'm not, I'm not sure what it is.
For me, I haven't gotten a lot of

Speaker 2 photos that I wish I had of certain events. So I really want them.
And there's not enough photos of me with my kids. And so I I really want those.

Speaker 2 I think

Speaker 2 my hardest thing is

Speaker 2 letting those photos look like what they look like because

Speaker 2 my biggest hurdle is that I don't like the way I look in photos.

Speaker 3 Oh, is that true? You don't like the way you look in photos?

Speaker 3 I am done.

Speaker 2 Why?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 this is a debate I've been having with myself for a while because I always thought

Speaker 2 for a lot of years

Speaker 2 that

Speaker 2 I don't look like myself in photos. That's what I think.
But I think I just. And then I realized, oh, fuck.

Speaker 2 Maybe that's what I look like.

Speaker 3 Sister, remember when I used to say, my eyes are two different sizes in pictures? Yes. And it took me till I was 40 to understand

Speaker 3 my eyes are just two different sizes.

Speaker 2 Yes. People joke with me, like it's like a running joke that I am puffy pirate.
What is that? In every photos, I'm puffy pirate because I, when I smile, I squinch my face up.

Speaker 2 And so I'm, my face is like a puff ball where, and then one of my eyes completely closes and one stays open. Puffy pirate.

Speaker 2 You do the pirate. I do.

Speaker 3 Did you know in college, my mean friend.

Speaker 3 What is that, Mark Letter?

Speaker 3 Used to call me Smoosh Face for the same reason. Smoosh face.
Also, I had had chipmunk cheeks from bulimia, but yeah, puffy pirate, smush face.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, God, it's so weird how my photos don't look anything like it.

Speaker 2 Have you ever, I'm going to just throw this out there

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 I also sometimes I cheese smile sometimes when I'm actually like so happy. And those photos, I'm like, oh, you're, whoa, this is not right.

Speaker 2 So now I have like a picture face that I feel confident in that will show the way that I want to be looking like in the photo.

Speaker 2 I haven't put that much effort into it, but I'm also just like, why can't I just let the pictures look how they look?

Speaker 2 Why can't I just be an Alice and be like, she's like, I'm, I'm really more of a casual person. Why can't I just be like, I'm really more of a puffy pirate? No, let it be.

Speaker 3 But here's the other thing. I actually don't think you are a puffy pirate.
Like, I think Puffy Pirate is a perfect example of forcing the pursuit of happiness into your pictures.

Speaker 3 Because when I think of like the pictures that should exist for you as who you are and how you parent, when I think of, oh, the pictures sister should have with her kids,

Speaker 3 I have flashes. I just had a flash of you like knocking Alice over when she was the goalie when we were playing beach, beach soccer.

Speaker 3 Pod squad, please understand we're playing a nice game of family soccer on the beach at Christmas. And Alice was in the goal because she's the youngest member of our family.

Speaker 3 So the rest of the family was, you know, kind of kicking the ball around her, gently approaching her, cheering her on. Sister was crushing her daughter, slide tackling her.

Speaker 2 Sister looked at her daughter. That's how we do it in Virginia.
You've actually, I've never seen somebody so competitive. No.
And I'm a former pro athlete. Sister.

Speaker 2 Sister takes us to a different level.

Speaker 3 Child, the small child in the goal and said, oh, shit, I can take her down.

Speaker 2 I mean, I'd get closest sister. I'd be like, nope, I'm not going into this.

Speaker 3 But like, she's coming in for pictures of that. Pictures of you on the floor being ridiculous with them.
I could just have flash after flash of what they should be.

Speaker 3 And you are not puffy pirate in any of them. Puffy pirate is what comes when mothering stops.
And you end the vacation and you stand in front of a camera. And you know what Puffy Pirate is?

Speaker 3 Puffy pirate is misery.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 It's misery.

Speaker 2 It's, I will get this picture. We got to think of a name for this because I think that this is like an important moment that most people will recognize and see in their own life.

Speaker 2 What is it that we're, that we're doing that we're stopping? This is like a snapshot of evil.

Speaker 3 Because none of us think that our lives the way they are. and ourselves the way they are and our children the way they are and our days the way they are is good enough.

Speaker 3 We all think we're supposed to be someone else. Our kids are supposed to be someone else.
We're pursuing, we're pursuing, we're pursuing.

Speaker 3 We never think right now in this moment, the way things are is good enough.

Speaker 2 It's so funny.

Speaker 2 We can do our things is brought to you by Bumble, the app committed to bring people closer to love. I went through it in my first marriage.

Speaker 2 I was desperately in love, and then in a whiplash of a moment, it was gone. I felt abandoned, betrayed, crushed.

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Speaker 2 And I just had the juiciest burger, and it gave me food poisoning. And I don't even want to look at another burger for a very long time.
When I was ready to look, I was terrified.

Speaker 2 How in the world do you put yourself out there after that?

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Speaker 2 I think there's a more practical element to it too. And people should go back and listen to why are there no pictures of us.

Speaker 2 I think that part of it, if people were going around, taking candid shots of me all the time doing

Speaker 2 my thing,

Speaker 2 I would not feel

Speaker 2 the pressure to make sure that I am documented with my family at these different stages. And so I wouldn't, I wouldn't feel the enormous pressure when it's like literally the one time ever.

Speaker 2 We've gotten professional pictures taken a time to the beach. And that's what, when you got it for me, because you were like, I'm going to make this happen for you.

Speaker 2 So I think it puts extra pressure on that because I want to be in a photo with my family. Whereas if I had

Speaker 2 legions of photographs of being candid with my kids, I would feel less of a sense of urgency around those moments where I know it's going to be

Speaker 2 the photograph I'm going to have for this year.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 That's

Speaker 2 beautiful.

Speaker 3 Yeah. It's so true.
That's something for all partners and friends and

Speaker 3 people listening to remember when you see your person or one of your people being themselves in a moment

Speaker 2 snap that picture yeah because guess what will happen when the moment when the family quote unquote picture comes up they're going to be less assholes because they know that they've got some other options to choose from yes scarcity creates

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 emergency level emotional response. And so I think that that is true.

Speaker 3 But listen, there's a difference. A picture is about being seen.
Yes.

Speaker 3 Being seen and like this idea that we have to change ourselves, change our children, dress up, look different than we are, alter ourselves.

Speaker 3 That means we are never really being seen.

Speaker 3 So in an extreme way, if someone takes a picture of me and I have spent you know, three hours in a makeup chair and someone has changed my hair and then probably done some editing afterwards.

Speaker 3 And then someone says, look at this picture of you. This is how I see you.
You're beautiful. There's no part of me that feels like that's, I don't feel that compliment.

Speaker 2 That's not real.

Speaker 3 If I'm laying on a couch and reading with the dogs laid on me and I don't even know it, and then Abby shows me a picture later, a picture she shot of me laying on the couch reading with the dogs.

Speaker 3 And she's like, look at you.

Speaker 3 That makes me feel so seen. So like with Alice, she comes home in those braids and you put that picture out on the

Speaker 3 on the kitchen table and say, that's my daughter. She doesn't feel like you're really seeing her.

Speaker 3 If you snap a picture of her outside with Seamus in the backyard, because you've noticed how beautiful and free and wild she looks when she's doing what she loves and you put that picture on the kitchen table and you say, that's my daughter, then she knows.

Speaker 3 That what you find most beautiful and stunning about her is her the way she is.

Speaker 2 It's like pictures are existential. This is a real person.
When you take a photo of yourself, it's like, I exist. There's something really deep about it.

Speaker 2 And I think it's so special that Alice is able to actually communicate that with you. I want my pictures to exist as I really am.
Yes.

Speaker 2 If we could all have that kind of, I don't know, confidence to be able to. Basically, she was saying, can

Speaker 2 the picture of me really be of me?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 And I just realized that, oh my God, what are we doing? We're starting this performance so early.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that is telling her, as you are,

Speaker 2 I don't want to put on my wall. Why would I want a picture of you just as you go to school on Tuesday on my wall? That's preposterous.

Speaker 2 It really, for me,

Speaker 2 helped me think through like, oh, God, that's really close to how I am now, where I will go through.

Speaker 2 If John takes a picture of me and the kids, and I will look at all of them, and maybe the kids look amazing, and I don't like the way I look at any of them, I won't print it.

Speaker 2 And it's like,

Speaker 2 but that's the way I look. Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's the, that's a picture of me.

Speaker 2 Sorry.

Speaker 3 There's only so many decades you can say, oh, that angle.

Speaker 2 Oh, God. That's so weird how the camera does that to me.

Speaker 2 So there's something liberating

Speaker 2 about

Speaker 2 just being like, can we all just be like,

Speaker 2 yep,

Speaker 2 that's a picture of Alice. Yep, that's a picture of me.
And maybe if we start doing it with our kids, we'll allow ourselves to start doing it with ourselves. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Let's not buy into it unintentionally.
Just buy into the idea that there's this one way.

Speaker 3 It would be cool if we all started taking pictures and let it be. Let everything be.
Let the vacay be. Let the day be.
Let the moment be.

Speaker 3 Let the daughter be, let the partner be and just snap it the way it is.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 That's a challenge, Pog Squad. Did you want to say something else, Sissy, before we wrap here?

Speaker 2 I wanted to tell my favorite Picture Day story. Oh, great.
Which my

Speaker 2 dear friend, she had to go out of town on Picture Day.

Speaker 2 And she left her husband in charge. and said, today is Picture Day.
Make sure you, you know, get the kids ready. And we have this restaurant in town called Lazy Mics, and they sell t-shirts.

Speaker 2 And of course, it's my friend's husband's favorite restaurant. And so he was like, perfect.
That's the one. So he sends the kindergartner to school in the Lazy Mike t-shirt for picture day.

Speaker 2 And when the pictures finally come in, she

Speaker 2 opens the envelope for the pictures and pulls it out. And there is her precious six-year-old in the photo with all you can see was the top of the t-shirt and emblazoned giant letters, lazy.

Speaker 2 It's just a picture of her face with like five-inch block letters lazy across it. And it is the funniest shit you've ever seen in your life.
I'm going to text it to you.

Speaker 2 And that picture, which she was so pissed about. Gold, gold.

Speaker 2 And now it's like every picture day, we text the picture to everyone. It's like, reminder, picture day tomorrow.
tomorrow

Speaker 2 lazy so she had to send that shit to to everybody who requested a picture oh it's so good

Speaker 2 i just love it i want to circle back you said that you your kids have two picture days a year oh yeah because how are you gonna make how are you gonna make six million dollars if you only have a winter picture you gotta have your spring picture too Yeah,

Speaker 2 did that happen for us when we were growing up? No. And remember our backgrounds where we never got to pay extra because my parents never paid extra for anything.
But remember how the

Speaker 2 kids whose parents would spend money would get like the laser backgrounds or what's going on with those backgrounds.

Speaker 2 It would be like you sitting there, and then there would be like, yeah, like a field of greens behind you while you're sitting there in your like smock dress.

Speaker 3 Yes, I remember you could get yourself, they could change out, like you'd sit on a little bench, but some of the kids whose parents were like, whoa, loaded, we'd get their pictures and the bench would be like gone and they'd be sitting on a bale of hay

Speaker 2 because nothing says second grade was fun like a bale of hay to sit on with purple lasers in the background

Speaker 3 all right we love you five squad thanks for listening go take some have a good picture day

Speaker 3 we clearly can't stop laughing so if you all have a family picture or school picture or any sort of picture horror stories, Rocky, anyway,

Speaker 3 can you please send them to us or call in and tell them to us? Because we would like to continue laughing. Tell us all the good, the bad, the ugly, the lazy

Speaker 3 picture stories. 747-200-5307.

Speaker 2 Were you going to say Rocky picture horror stories? Yeah, because I was trying to work that all in, but like it didn't.

Speaker 3 I forgot and then I panicked.

Speaker 2 Goodbye.

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