72. Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird!

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I chased desire.

I made sure I got what's mine.

Hello, hello, hello.

Welcome back.

to We Can Do Hard Things.

Today, we are inviting you to a double date.

It's so exciting.

It is exciting.

I feel nervous and excited, a little bit like, and we, for the past few minutes, we've been talking about our own personal rules for our double date.

Like, you would imagine you and your partner driving to this said double date, and like you're kind of talking about like what's gonna happen.

What do you want to talk about?

Yeah, so our first double date, and we can do our thing.

Who is it?

Megan Rapino and Sue

What?

I mean, legends.

Yeah.

All right.

Let's do this.

Okay, Megan and Sue.

Here we are.

And I just want to explain to you what the hell we're doing here.

Okay, Abby and I decided a while back that we were going to try to have friends.

Okay.

Like

new friends?

No.

Just, oh, okay.

Just existing friends that

reboot.

Like we were just going to actually talk to the people that we call our friends.

Yeah.

But we don't want to go anywhere or really do anything about it.

So what we decided was that we were going to have double dates on the podcast.

So then we made a list of all of the people that we wanted to have a double date with, and it kept just saying Megan and Sue.

So here we are.

I love a 9 a.m.

Thank you.

I love a 9 a.m.

A 9 a.m.

double date.

Yeah.

That's That's actually typical for us.

Well, in the sober world, when you don't drink at night, like you don't go get dinner and drinks if you're not drinking.

So we do coffee.

Yeah.

It's like

because it gets very arbitrary.

It's like the goodwill hunting.

It's like, do you want to get together and have some caramels?

Yeah.

It's like, what the hell else do you do?

So what are you guys doing?

Like, what in the hell are you doing?

Where are you right now?

Are you in Seattle?

Yeah, we're in Seattle.

We're in Seattle.

We're both kind of, Abby, I feel like you know this stress and anxiety and life questioning feeling as well as we do.

We're in our January sort of like,

it's just every year it comes, the anxiety comes, all of the questions about my life come.

And it's like, I know what's happening.

Still just happens, but we're working out and doing the things.

And

what are the questions because i feel this way i want you to understand that this is not a sporty spice thing i think you're alluding to that because you just only called out abby but january is a just a pit of existential dread all the time for them it's in the form of like a beep test yeah

yeah that's where their fitness yeah so

the the beep test yeah that's where they're i don't have that experience thank god we don't do that fitness testing stuff it's just like the the feeling of you know you can't wait to get to your vacation at the end of your season it's all you think about all year long you can't wait of course you take your you know seven days off like your really long break seven days

and then you have to get going again somehow in seven days you forgot how to do everything and everything hurts and everything's like 20 000 times harder than it ever

was before.

And you're like, should I, should we just hang it up?

Should I be done?

Should, why is it so hard?

Is everyone else doing it this hard?

No, it looks easy for them.

It's just so dumb to like get ready for us, you know, the sports.

Is it like the Sunday scaries, but like times a million?

Is it like on Sunday when everything feels terrifying and you forgot how to be out in the world and do whatever it is you do and you don't think you'll ever figure it out again?

Is it like that, but harder?

Well, I think that Megan

and I were very similar in this way, that when it was off season, we were off.

We took those seven, and might I say, maybe 14.

We might have extended those days off.

So that

coming back into shape is just miserable.

And also, when you get older, it's harder.

It's just, it's just physiologically more difficult.

Some people just like stay in shape during that time, but I just never did.

But how's your body holding up, Megan?

Like, are you, are you feeling healthy at least?

I am feeling good.

Yeah.

I had a little longer break actually this time than I normally do.

I obviously didn't go to the camp in Australia.

So I feel like I was really able to kind of phase out like, okay, you're doing a little bit of rehab in the beginning and now we're doing strength.

And now I'm kind of back on the field getting ready for preseason.

So I actually feel pretty good.

Like knock on wood.

And I've been able to kind of slow roll it, which has been nice.

And I haven't felt a ton of pressure.

There's always like a little bit of like,

I'm not going into this camp or whatever, but it's actually been nice to not have that pressure.

And I just get to like roll into my club preseason, which will be really nice.

So I feel pretty good.

Do you two feel?

So we were just talking to a good friend, Sarah Paulson, and she was talking about how she's just gotten to this point in her life where she's finally figured out that she knows how to do what she does.

Like it's not just one long fluke.

It's not like she's tricking the world every time she shows up.

She actually tells herself, wait, you know how to act.

Like you can do this.

It's not luck.

Do you guys feel like you can do sports yet?

Or do you still feel like you're just tricking the world every time?

And when you get a trophy or whatever you get, you're like, oh, thank God I tricked him again.

Got him.

I think it's a dance.

I think you're doing a dance.

I think there are days when you feel that way.

And then there are days when you're like, man, I hope I scored today.

You know,

I think, like Abby said, or she talked about getting older.

What happens when you get older is you definitely start to realize what you're good at.

You start to, when you're out there playing, you start to stick to what you're good at.

And then, but what happens is you're getting older, you're realizing you're really good at it, right?

Like you've proven it.

And then your body starts to go a little bit.

So then it's like this shift to like, well, is my body going to let me do it?

Like, I know I can do it now, but is my body going to let me do it?

And then, and then all of a sudden, for me anyway, the focus shifts to that where I'm in my workouts.

The minute I feel any pain, I'm like, oh, this could be it.

This could be, that's,

you know, and the rest of my week is spent in retirement.

And then I show up the next week and it feels pretty good.

And I'm like, all right, I can play forever.

So it's just this constant like dance.

That's horseshit, though.

The second you figure out how to do it, it's like, that reminds me of, of, I think I'm in paramenopause right now.

That reminds me of that.

It's like, okay, I'm crushing it.

I am a badass.

I am like, I don't give a shit what anyone thinks about me.

I am out there doing my thing.

And it's like, oh, but I'm going to have hot flashes every four minutes.

Like, what the fuck?

Yeah, but it's like your body's going to remind you and like knock you down nine pegs every time you start to get comfortable.

It's not like, I feel like at this stage in both of our careers, it's like, if all things were equal physically, it's like we'd be busting these kids' asses.

Like it's not, it's like, I know what to do and exactly how to do it and where my advantages are and all that.

It's just about like bringing this body along to get it to the point where it can like halfway do what my mind is asking.

Well, and as pro athletes, y'all never are actually at, especially as we get older, you're never at 100%.

So you're always, you're always dealing with something.

And like, that just plays a massive role into the confidence that you could take as an athlete on the pitch or on the court.

So it's like, I don't know.

I just think it's so fucking amazing that y'all are still playing.

I mean, Sue, how old are you right now?

41.

That's how old I am.

Yeah.

You couldn't pay.

You're such a slacker.

You could still.

I can't understand what you're saying right now because I haven't listened.

Because I'm, I keep going back to the fact that Megan Rapino just called a bunch of people on the team the kids.

Yeah.

Like, yeah.

That I feel like a great grandmother right now.

Yes.

If Megan is referring to, wow.

So you're like the old person now.

Yeah.

Wow.

Are you the oldest on the team?

Um, now that Carly's gone.

And Becky.

Becky, I think, is like a month

older.

Sue, you are also?

Are you the oldie?

I've been the oldest for like five years.

Legitimist agreed to play for another year, which is amazing and wild to me.

I mean, have you treated your body perfectly forever?

No, no, no.

How are you still moving?

I'm like, good genetics.

I'm 41.

Yeah.

No, but I didn't do this forever, but I switched.

I switched like my workout regimen.

I hired somebody, all this stuff probably six years ago now.

And that was like, I was plateauing.

And then it kind of, it wasn't even that like I, I took off.

It was just like, oh, it didn't, it didn't do the decline.

It kind of just stayed.

And then I was able to, like you guys talked about, when you get older, you are just smarter.

You're more experienced than these players.

So you can use that as long as your body's there.

So I just found a way to keep my body like hovering.

And that's how, like I always say, like people talk about father time.

I'm like, I'm just trying to tie him.

Yeah.

I'm not trying to win.

That's good.

I'm not, I'm not trying to win.

I just need to tie.

Just keep up.

You guys should become, well, you already are, but if you're a writer, you don't have to give a shit about your body.

I don't even have to like make it up the stairs to have

the bottom of the stairs writing.

Yeah.

So, you, how did you guys meet?

Yeah.

Good.

Oh, gosh.

Yeah.

The quick sort of version is: Abby, you know, the like Olympic NBC media day.

It's, it's usually in LA.

All day.

But all day, you go from like uniform to this outfit.

Casual Saturday.

And like date night.

You know, that's, those are the outfits you have to bring.

They're like bringing a date night Saturday night, a casual Sunday night, and then a workout outfit.

And then you have like your proper uniform and you're going to like change these outfits constantly.

And this is a pretty pre, this is NBC pre-Olympics so that NBC can get footage to use while the Olympics are playing.

Yeah.

which you maybe see like 10 seconds of it ever.

Yeah, it's like entertainment tonight, the sports, some news, like go into the social thing, like all of these different like stakeholders, media stakeholders are in the same thing.

So this was 2000, what, 16?

Yeah, 16.

So

Dan Levy, obviously my agent, you know, Dan and Glenn very well.

Yeah.

So it was like sort of in passing.

I also was not single at the time.

I was actually engaged at the time.

So, this was just kind of like a funny interaction.

Dan basically like introduced me.

And it's like, we had been in Seattle for whatever, a number of years.

Like, I obviously knew who she was, but like, you know, I'd gone to a couple WNBA games, but didn't like know each other.

So, Dan was like, oh my gosh, you guys should like, you know, sort of know each other.

And it was what I was saying.

She had her uniform on, but then she had like the hair down, and I'm sure like more makeup than you wanted.

Tragic.

Yeah.

And I just like, you know, because I'm so cool and so smooth with everything, I was just made some dumb joke that I immediately walked past her and rolled my eyes.

And I was like, I can't fucking believe you just did that.

But I like walked, we kind of got introduced.

And it was one of those things, you know, when it's like quick and like, it's just one of these.

Like, it's just a weird thing.

And I was like, oh, like, you're ready for your game?

And just like, I was like, yeah.

Okay.

So.

There's that.

So we can't even be friends now because she's like, she's a loser.

She's dead to me.

Yeah.

Like, obviously, we can't.

She's like, oh, I heard she was cool.

Yeah.

Like, everything that you've heard is a total lie.

Not anyway.

So that was kind of like our first meeting.

That was like the proper first meeting.

A little interaction.

Yeah.

And then

what was the next?

Basically at the Olympics.

At the Olympics.

We famously, you know, bonked out in a massive way.

I was coming back from my ACL.

So it was just the whole Olympics for us was really kind of terrible, but we got out so early and we never actually even made it to Rio.

So I was like, oh, I'm going to Rio.

There was like five or six of us.

We went to a few games.

We ended up, you guys had, you were staying on a cruise ship.

So it was like different Olympic experiences.

Right.

Different budget.

Different experiences.

Different budgets.

Wildly different.

I mean, she said, what is it called?

Manaus?

Manaus.

That then appeared on 90 Day Fiancé.

Yes.

The hotel.

The hotel did.

And I was like, oh, I started watching that one season.

I don't regret it.

I don't regret it.

It's not something I'm proud of, of, but I don't regret it.

And I was like, oh, they're in this like crazy Brazil.

She's like, that's where we stayed.

That's where we stayed.

I was like, what?

My clothes are still damp.

It's like it was a different experiences.

And yeah, just real quick, can you explain to us why?

Why?

So it's actually very simple.

USA basketball, the umbrella is both men's and women's.

There's a lot of like, how do I explain this?

The MBA is very much involved in our USA basketball experience.

It's kind of all one big umbrella, actually.

Like the NBA kind of owns the USA basketball rights, and it gets kind of, there's a lot of detail to it.

But with that,

there's a certain standard in which the men are treated and we get treated the same

as we should, as we deserve.

But that's basically what happens.

Yeah.

So it's like they charter, we charter.

They actually cannot stay in the village.

They're just entirely too famous.

It's the times we do go in there with them, it's wild.

So they always, we always have to get something outside of the village.

We, unlike, unlike you guys, um, we stay in the city the whole time.

We play the whole time, we stay in the city, whatever city it is the whole time.

And our traveling party is huge.

We can bring guests.

So, they get us like a hotel, or in this case, they couldn't find a hotel like logistically that made sense.

So, we stayed on a cruise ship.

It was like below deck vibes.

Very good.

It's a much more like

enjoyable, it is relaxed, you're not grinding environment where we're like, you have one hour a day of family time.

Yeah.

You're like, okay.

Yeah.

It's like, okay, like visitation.

Yeah.

Everyone being miserable, that's going to help us our performance on the field.

You guys just have

more.

But it's weird.

It's like they're not on contract like we are.

No, you haven't normally been.

It's like these events.

Do you get paid more like than the soccer?

Like, do you actually, the women, right?

So it doesn't translate to actual power.

Yeah, they don't even get like paid, really.

It's like kind of we get bonuses for winning.

No, but I mean like in the WNBA.

So we're talking two separate things.

USA basketball is different than the WNBA.

Right.

So like for them, and I'm sure you hear, and by the way, I'm like you, Glenn, like, I had to learn all like their lives, like how it went.

Their national team is like the priority.

It's where the money is.

It's like where their contracts are.

For us, it's the WNBA and overseas.

And then national team is second.

And for them, it's like national team's first, NWCL's second.

Like it's a flipped.

Yeah.

Got it.

Okay, cool.

So you're in the Olympics.

Megan's out of the Olympics, but visiting the Olympics.

Yes.

Yeah.

Basically.

Sue is on below deck.

Yes.

And so then how does this happen?

So I had been going,

yeah, I had been going to a couple of games.

Obviously, we all, it's like we didn't know each other, but like we're in the exact same world in life.

We know the same people, like the agents, all, all the sort of things.

You're just going to skip the DM part.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, it's well, it actually sounds like way more scandalous.

So, obviously, the summer of 16, it was like

from a social justice perspective.

I mean, we just come off like 14, Ferguson, Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, like, you know, going into 50, I feel like I was like, educate myself more.

The WNBA obviously is always the leader and in the forefront of social justice work and protests and all of that.

So, summer of 16, the players from Minnesota had refused to speak to the media and worn the black shirts.

And kind of going into the Olympics, I

slid into Sue's DMs.

I do love the DMs and, like, she does.

She's not in, I just

get to like blue chuck.

The blue chuck gets you far.

Yeah, no.

I'm like, hi.

It's like, that's how you met Carla, her stylist.

Yeah, like the guy who's the guy who's doing our apartment designing in New York.

Like, I just slide into everyone's DMs.

And I'm like, hi.

Like, you didn't ask for me, but here I am.

Anyway, so I had hit her like, hey, just amazing about social justice.

Yeah, like what, you know, you guys are doing, if there's any way for our teams to partner or whatever.

This was pre-kneeling.

That happened sort of after we got back from the Olympics.

Just kind of, is there any way to connect or help like amplify whatever?

That it didn't really kind of like lead anywhere, but we sort of were like talking.

If I had to like round this up, that's platonic.

There's like, yeah, there's like all these like connecting points.

We met here and then we, oh, we, oh, I saw, we saw each other at the USA house, which is this place that um at the olympics there's always like a usa house where every athlete can go and they have like food and different kind of entertainment things whatever they do there we saw i saw you there and then she lost so then she was coming to my games at that point we had connected on the dm and it was kind of like oh you know good to see you blah blah blah that kind of thing and then they came

to

um our after party so we had one my fiancé was there at the time Sarah was there was there so it was like so this is this is really like totally platonic

at that time

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okay so you dm'd sue about social justice before the kneeling before your kneeling so would you say that because

I secretly believe that the WNBA is in charge of the world.

Yes.

I really believe.

It certainly should be.

Yes.

yes holy

so would you say that that influenced you oh yeah good question

the wmba influenced you and the way that you decided to take on the kneeling

do you think there's any way that that was influential to you yeah definitely because i i think that they were the first ones doing anything publicly protesting as an athlete kind of during that time.

Like they were talking before Colin was talking.

They had already already done the protest

in that summer and in their season.

And it wasn't just with the Minnesota team.

It then kind of went league-wide.

You guys wore black t-shirts and, you know, refused to speak to the media about it.

I mean, if you remember that summer, it was like there were like five really high-profile murders of black men.

And there was the shooting of the police officers.

I think it was in Dallas.

It was a very violent and tragic summer, sort of leading into Colin kneeling, which was like September or something.

So I think I was already kind of like opening my eyes to what was happening and, you know, going through, like I said, like Trayvon Martin and then the protests in Ferguson and Michael Brown.

And that obviously extended really far, the formation of Black Lives Matter.

Like I was just like learning about it.

I didn't really,

I mean, I don't think I was really thinking about it all that much before then.

And then you guys, you know, and it was just much more is like, I feel like that that summer, every time he turned around, like articles or in the Atlantic or the New York Times or Sports Illustrated, it was all just kind of like in the sort of zeitgeist of the moment.

So, yeah, like you guys were the first ones to really speak out.

And I think even it's like, even in my sort of like implicit bias, I think back then I would say Colin was probably a bigger influence because obviously when he spoke out, he got so much more, you know, media attention.

It's the NFL.

But like, really, they were saying the exact same, they were doing the exact same things, you know in in the best way that they could or in the most impactful way that they could sort of prior to colin even kneeling for the first time yeah so amazing and would sue that was mostly black women led right is that the way that it yeah yeah absolutely yeah it was it was minnesota lynx is really the team and you would say maya moore simone augustus rebecca brunson on that team lindsey whalen Those four, like I can picture the image.

There's a picture of them standing kind of at like a press conference with, they had made shirts.

I forget the man's name who died in Minnesota, who was murdered.

Castile,

Philando.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes.

And that was, that was the instigator for them because this was like, this happened in our state.

And when they did that, the security guards who are generally like off-duty police officers, they walked out.

And then the rest of our league was like, wait a minute.

Like we need to, you know, support this, be a part of this, make it bigger.

And that's actually the first time we really started to learn the power of like the collective.

like yes it was big when minnesota did it because then i think new york liberty followed i think maybe phoenix mercury followed then the whole league followed and it was like oh when we're all doing this then it's like a big boom versus just one team here one team there so that was actually in terms of our journey as a league that was the starting point of realizing the collective power And the rest of us don't even understand, I don't think, consciously the power of what you all do first, because I remember seeing

the whole Loeffler situation, the kelly loffler thing this is the 2020 election right that terrible woman or in 2018 right and then i don't know i don't know numbers those 20 years

2020 2020 2020 yeah yeah but i was already seeing the vote warnock t-shirts and and and i remember being like who's that yes so how weird is that that like

you know a year later we were all like this was my idea but that team was the first and that was so brave and amazing like wasn't that the owner of laughler was the owner of the team and these women all walked out with vote warnot t-shirts on the shops.

It was the players of the Atlanta Dream, dream, right?

Yeah, the Atlanta dream.

The whole league did it, our entire league.

And that was like the beauty of the wubble.

Obviously, we're in a bubble because shit's crazy, COVID, so much, George Floyd, like there's so much happening.

And we're, but the beauty of the bubble was we were all together.

So you can't, and you know how it is.

I mean, how hard is it to get on a Zoom with two other people, you know, finding time?

It's impossible.

So for 144 women to be in one place at the same time, you could just like strategize because we're like, I know you're not doing shit.

Get on this thing.

Like, come meet me.

Yeah.

You guys were really

the like, the sort of like the

snap or the whatever firecracker.

Obviously, you know, shout out Stacey Abrams and Fairfight and the activists on the

I mean, we had they were setting the like ground speed eye.

It did, it did feel like the, the moment where it became more of a national thing or more thing that the casual person was thinking about.

And then you guys saved the Republic by getting us two more senators at least,

even though we haven't really done enough with the advantage that we don't have.

Anyways, we don't need to get into that.

And then you think about how much attention and credit

women's soccer gets for things.

Yes.

It's so fascinating.

And,

well, Megan and Sue, why would you say

that

women's soccer tends to

be more celebrated

in this country than the WNBA is?

Well, and I mean, really, just very bluntly, in our country that is

white supremacist-founded, heteronormative, cisgendered, patriarchal,

the

straight assumed,

generally white,

cisgendered women.

Of course, it's like we're cute and white.

Right.

We talk about this all the time.

It's like we're cute and white and more palatable, and we get to represent America, you know, with the playing for the U.S.

as our primary thing.

I mean, I just,

it's like,

I just can't get to any other conclusion other than the WNBA is like tall and black, and everyone thinks everyone's gay.

And think about the society that

we live in.

And

they're always compared to

the counterparts, which is the NBA.

And I think for,

I think people in America have a much better knowledge of basketball than soccer traditionally.

And so, I mean, even when people say like, oh, you guys are so much better than the men, I'm like, yeah, it's really not like the goal, first of all.

And also, that's just like, it just leaves out so much nuance where I think like, you know, every LA Fitness, YMCA basketball guy like thinks that he could be the best player in the WNBA and he just can't.

So I think it's really simple.

I think that's why.

Yep.

I think so too.

From my massive sports background.

So you had all these meetings and run-ins.

Sue, when did you know, oh shit, I'm in love with Megan?

Or I like Megan even.

No, I want to know like,

we're going to get there.

We're like out of time.

I mean, obviously, she liked Megan when she was so nerdy and was tried to like be cool at the

Olympic thing, right?

But like, when were you like, uh-oh?

And by the way, I want everyone to know who's listening that they just had like a little sidebar.

We had like their story sidebar, which is what we always do.

It was just more like, okay,

are we going to share that?

Yeah, I think the one part that's always just a little, like, I was with someone, so I never want to like disrespect that person.

and you know we have the same scenario so yeah it's like there was emotional overlap which is overlap and that's you know what it is and not i i wish it didn't happen that way but it did so that's right

so preface with that what we were side chatting about was so there's okay so this is one of those experiences where i feel like a lot of people have this experience okay had megan and i never ended up together I never would have even remembered some of these little moments.

They just would have been these like little bloops in your mind that come and go and it just it just never would have been like a big huge factor but because we did we can look back on it and be like oh actually

so one of them is um at that olympics

um oh yeah so she was at the after party we're all having fun

and um she was standing over and i was like bringing her a drink and like making sure she was all set that kind of a thing just being a good host you know

just kind of chilling it was like you know me and Sarah at the time.

And then I think like Jess and Mary were around.

Like, we didn't really know anyone.

So we were just kind of like posted up at this like, you know, tall table, just kind of standing and chilling and listening.

Just

being like, I don't know what we're doing here, but we're here.

And we got on the boat and it took us three days because you had to give your passport.

And it was like a whole scene.

So we're like, we're security.

Yeah, we're tough.

So yeah, so I kept like checking in on them, I guess, to be like, hey, blah, blah, blah, you know?

And at one point,

you know, one of my close friends is Diana Terrazi.

We obviously know each other very well.

So, I like had just left the table for probably like the fifth time or something, like walked away.

And she comes out to me, she goes, and get the fuck away from that table.

And I was like, What?

She was like, I know what's happening.

Get away from that table.

You two know each other.

Yeah.

And I was like, shut up, you know, like, whatever, whatever.

So, again, had, you know, we never end up together, that wouldn't even be, I mean, I guess I would remember it because it's funny, but it just was like, whatever.

But now looking back, I clearly was like

caring for her

yes like i was like wanting to be near but not in a disrespectful way that's i guess what i'm getting at no you weren't like prowling you just legitimately like but diana saw it like d saw it and was like get the away from that table that's so interesting so that's like she's never cared about being a host this much as she does right now

It's sweet.

She was trying to protect you, you know?

Those are the kind of friends you have.

And now looking back, I think that Dee was also trying to bring this to Sue's attention on a more conscious level because D

wanted it to happen for you.

That's not your take, yeah.

Oh, that's my take.

I think so.

But also, it's like this funny thing where, like, it's like we all know each other because, of course, I know who Diana Terasi is.

Of course, I know who Sue Bird is.

Like, we all sort of like know each other, but we don't really

know.

I feel like women's sports is getting better at that, or like women in

sports, or even just like entertainment or whatever.

Like, I feel like we get a little more self-conscious whereas the guys are out there like, yo, what's up?

Like, of course, I know who you are.

And like, I feel like it was a little, D's kind of funny and the same.

She's like, I don't want any new friends, but like, that one seems that I could do a one new friend.

Oh, so she thinks you think.

But I think she was like, oh, I hope she ends up with Megan because Megan seems cool and I want to be your friend.

No.

Well, a little bit of both.

A little bit.

But I think also she's like, wanted this about you.

No.

No.

I'm just kidding.

No.

A little bit?

No, not at all.

Wanted you to focus in someone who

she recognized how amazing you are and was like, oh, my friends.

I mean, it was such a

kind of walk myself into that.

But yeah, basically, I agree.

I'm just going to switch gears real quick.

What do y'all fight about the most?

Oh, God.

I mean, presently Zoom calls.

Like, one is on one and the other one is making noise.

This is a huge,

big issue in this household.

It's a big issue.

It's just, I couldn't

be more hypocritical about the way that I operate on Zoom for myself and then like the way that I operate when Sue's on Zoom.

It's just,

I'm like death-eyeing her if she makes one.

Oh, if I make, if I like literally

down on the thing.

She's like boxes and stuff.

Yeah.

She goes.

Yeah.

I did have a little Zoom.

This is classic.

I did have a Zoom incident.

I am loud off Zoom.

I don't know why.

We were in our

place in New York.

We've just bought a lot of people in the world.

Just a place in New York.

There's nothing really in it.

Yeah, you guys will definitely have to come visit.

Obviously, they're invited.

Anytime.

So it's really empty.

So it's very echoey already.

Things are loud.

I feel like you need to tell it, but no.

I mean, I just love every time we've, we've told this, we've shared this story just like a couple of times.

Now it's going out to the masses.

Now it's never the number one podcast in the world.

I've heard.

So she'll make the rules.

She always loves to, at the start, say, it was very echoey.

And it's like, yes, that's true because we didn't have furniture, but also it was loud enough.

And I was on a Zoom call that was actually casual.

It wasn't like a podcast or a recording.

It was, I was talking to like, it was our accountant.

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

And our financial advisor.

Yes.

Well, I wasn't going to put a name on it because now if they listen, they're going to know.

Well, it's going to confirm what they probably thought.

So we're on the call and out of nowhere, I hear, I'll be off camera for a second.

I hear, well, I can't because the mic's far i hear

and i was like oh this bitch just farted

i didn't mean it i did not mean it

this way actually farted i'm almost impossible to embarrass i actually was like

a little embarrassed i texted her

i was like i texted her i was like they just heard you fart oh my god we all just heard you fart

Well, it actually probably sounds like Sue farted.

And she's like, excuse me.

But you don't want to stop and say, actually, that was Megan.

Yeah.

Actually,

you know what, Abby?

I never thought that they thought it was me.

So I feel like they knew it.

It's kind of hitting me hard right now.

I don't feel like they knew it wasn't you.

It didn't sound, it was further away.

I was, I was 15 feet away, minimum.

I was in the hall.

It was really funny.

Anyway, so we fight about the Zoom stuff.

That was really funny, though.

And how do you all fight?

Yeah.

Like, who,

who's more controlling in your relationship?

I feel like we communicate pretty well.

Yeah.

So we're not ever like

filling.

Yeah, like fighting.

I'm definitely not a big fighting.

I guess not.

I don't like to do that.

I actually will say to her sometimes, I'm like, you remind me of when, okay, so in sports,

referees are a big pain in the ass, right?

So sometimes you'll like look at them and be like, what the hell was that?

And the referees that go, you're right, my bad.

You can't argue.

They just like nip you and they like neuter you almost.

And you're just like, and you want to have this, because a lot of referees will be like, I didn't see it that way.

And then you have, that's your chance to be like, well, you didn't just see that girl hit the other, you know, you didn't see this, you didn't see that.

And then when they argue back with you, it's like this back and forth.

But when a referee says, you're right, it just ends it.

And sometimes I'll be like, you're acting like a, you're acting like that referee right now because, but this is a compliment, actually.

What Megan is really good at is like, she hears you.

She's like understanding and processing your, for lack of a better complaint.

And she goes, Okay, yeah, I see that.

You're right.

But then when you're kind of upset about something, just kind of like,

right?

And the thing is, like, I'm not doing this as a way of manipulation.

Like, but at first, I didn't realize that.

I had to get to a place.

I'm actually just apologizing.

I'm aggressive, right?

Yes.

And I was like, argue with me, please.

And I'm like, I actually, what you just said barely hit the nail on the head.

And that's not cool of me.

And

I am apologizing.

The problem is that some of these things are like character traits where I would love to say that I'm going to remember about the light bulbs.

I'm probably not ever in my life going to remember all the time about the light bulbs.

I'm like a psycho lighthouse

shutting the lights off like when we leave the house.

I just think, isn't that like kind of commonplace?

You also, I mean, to steal something from your guys's podcast with the ticker, I think Amanda was talking about it of like the daily tasks.

And like Sue also lives in 3022 for everything.

And like, I would love to say that my

super efficient, super smart, like

way ahead on things.

Like she's already, it's already shown up at the door.

And I'm like, wow, we should probably think about getting paper towels.

And she's like, I have it on subscription like to the exact amount that we need.

No, you're not psycho at all.

It's actually amazing, but you carry a lot of the like, the household daily ticker tasks.

And so, of course, that gets old.

I think you like doing it, but also like it gets old.

And what you want your partner to like, yeah.

And so then when I say sorry about stuff, knowing

you know, we both kind of know full well at this point, like, is it gonna change a lot?

I don't know.

So then it feels sorry about I'm saying sorry and then not changing my behavior.

So that's what we talk about.

I think that's something that we fight about probably with both of us.

Like the theme of that.

Yes.

Because I feel like we're both very self-aware.

We're both like, you know, looking in.

We're both understanding.

We both have that.

But then it's like, sometimes I just feel you have to accept shit about your partner because it's not changing.

They are who they are.

And it's like, we can always be better, but you're not going to change the core of who your partner is.

I very much believe that.

And when we spend so much time together, I was in different paint, like, you know, the same themes keep coming up and up and up.

And I feel like the more we can just

accept that some of these things your partner is going to drive you nuts about all the time.

And I have found that some things that I've let go of,

it's just better for me because, like, ultimately, it's not going to change.

So I'm either mad about it all the time or I'm just like,

that's her.

And that's okay.

I mean, Megan, since you've known Abby for so long, I want you to know that I spent the first

four years of our relationship trying to quiet her down.

Like, I thought maybe I could just, if we keep talking about it,

I could just

lower her volume.

Like, that's never going to fucking happen.

No, I, my responsibility is just to go dead inside.

Just to listen.

Right.

Just, yeah.

Just, yeah.

That's never

dead inside.

And like,

yeah, yes.

That's my job as a lover

is to

slowly die to that wish.

And like for you, I'm never going to put things back in the right place.

I'm never, it, I think we've gotten to a place where we're starting to accept that.

Yeah, because what Megan's saying, if I say to you, I'm sorry, that implies that I'm going to do it differently.

And I am never, ever going to do it differently.

Ever.

That's right.

That's the thing.

Ever.

No.

Like, it's just not going.

Now we can become better at things, more aware.

We can do this.

We can do that.

But like the volume of Abby's voice is the volume of Abby's voice.

Right.

that's like a natural that's like asking you know her to change who she is on the inside it's just like hard not gonna happen no and it doesn't go well megan although when i try it doesn't go well i will say i do think that i have gotten less loud really do you do you think that

do you did someone tell you that or you just

said your opinion who told you that because they lied yeah

Who told you that?

Right.

So interesting.

I love what she said.

She said, you know, I want a partner that partners.

I love that.

It's so good.

But she does.

I mean, I'm sure same.

It's like,

you do.

Yeah.

It's just there's these certain areas that are more like my wheelhouse.

And I want her to participate in what I'm good at to like help.

But then to her point, you have to realize that's not their thing.

They're not going to think of these things.

Yeah.

This has been like the ongoing.

The ticker stass.

That thing

has changed my life.

Like now I have to actually like write it down, like ticker.

So she'll walk into the room.

She's like, What are you doing?

And I'm like, I'm tickering right now.

And it's just like, I'm literally sitting there by myself, thinking of all the things that needs to get done.

Yeah, it's awesome.

Yeah, you guys gave me a real word about that.

I had a look in the mirror about that because I think it was Amanda who said, like, when her husband comes in and he's like, How can I help?

That further proves you have no idea what is going on in our life.

And I would ask Sue, How can I help?

like an idiot.

And I got it.

I was like, oh my God,

I'm doing this like awful thing that just, then I say, oh, how can I help?

Which further proves how much I'm totally out of the loop.

So I was like, you know what?

Figure it out.

Figure out a way that I can help.

Figure it out, Megan.

I don't know.

That's awesome.

So thank you guys for that.

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We talk a lot on this podcast about boundaries.

Have you all had to, during this weird time, establish any challenging boundaries with each other or with anybody else in the world that you can think of?

Like family of origin stuff, the world.

You guys have to deal with the world often and its feelings.

Or each other.

I actually can't think of anything.

The only thing literally just happened yesterday.

There's like sometimes where,

because we're always like gaming things out together, right?

Whether it's like saving the world or what's going on, you know, in each of our teams, or what's going on with our families.

Like, there's always like we're gaming, we're talking, we're gaming things out.

And I think one boundary we're starting to realize we need to set is

we can't, okay, so as somebody, as one of us is explaining something that's frustrating that's happening,

the other one in their attempt to be supportive can actually whip the other one up.

So, some, it's like, and because we

know it's not always, it's not just you, mostly.

But it's like, so let's say, you know, because I get fired up on your behalf.

Yes.

But vice versa.

And it's like, so one of us is like, can you believe this, this, and that is happening?

And I'm already, you know, I'm already whipped up.

And she'll like, come in and whip me up even more.

And it just happened yesterday where I was like, okay, this is actually not helpful now.

Like, I'm too whipped up.

And I think I can do it for you.

I do it to you as well.

And so it's like, that's like one thing I think we're starting to realize.

To be whipped up, yes,

I want to whip up for like five hours in a row.

Meanwhile, we get to the five hours, we haven't accomplished anything.

That's right.

So, I feel like that's a boundary.

That's like, yeah, sometimes you just need the person to yes, like be there and like listen and be supportive and/or

show you another side if that you're not seeing, whatever the case is.

But yeah, okay, maybe it is a me thing for me.

Then, I feel like I'm already whipped.

That is such a huge situation.

my sister and i

i mean i can get on the phone with her and say i don't like i don't know that that that person looked at me weird in 20 minutes we're both homicidal we're both plotting the death of that person and how we can get away with it and remove the body yeah but i will tell you that there's i believe there's an appropriate level of whippedness that everyone needs to get to because I also don't like

I think our dynamic is I'm whipped and then you try to unwhip me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Telling me everything's okay.

That's frustrating too.

You know, when you're whipped up about something and somebody's like, well, I mean, let's look at it from their perspective.

And you're like, okay,

no.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So at the right level, what's helpful?

Right.

Like not, yeah.

By the way, this is all very like

situation dependent, topic dependent.

Sometimes you do want to be, you want somebody to be like right there whipped up with you.

But I think for me, it's a scenario where it's like my,

one of my work environments.

And I was finding that it like wasn't helping me to like go from, I was like zero to 50 and she sent me to 100.

And that was like, this is my work environment.

I can't be at 100.

That was kind of sort of what was happening.

So I think that it's like a good somebody to meet your whippedness,

but maybe not exceed, but not bring you down either.

To your point, it is frustrating for someone to try to like calm you when you're not ready to be calmed.

And that's actually what I do.

Sometimes I go to, she'll be talking about something and I immediately jump into solutions and then I realize what happened.

I'm like, yep, not yet.

I get it.

That was too soon.

Too soon on the solution.

It looks like I'm ready for a solution.

I'm in the middle of my bullshit.

Yeah.

Too soon on the solution.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you are very solution oriented.

And I'm more like, not emotional because you are emotional, but I'm more like, get in the mix.

And like, you're an organizer and I'm like a fuck shit up in front of the microphone sort of thing and like we have to which we both get so much from each other and but it's like a balance of where those are the boundaries where we need to sort of and that's the thing so good it's so beautiful when Glennon comes to me she's coming to me with real problems that are like life and death for people you know and so I'm I I don't want to like live in that space 24 hours a day.

And so sometimes she'll just be like, can you please just not bright side this?

Like, this is not a bright sidable moment.

This is horrible.

Like, this is bad.

Like, let's just sit and feel bad for a little bit.

And when that is kind of the consistent conversation, I'm like, fuck, I'm,

she doesn't.

I'm sad.

Yeah.

Now I'm actually sad.

Yeah.

It's hard.

I like being sad.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's true.

Cause I can like get to the thing and then get to the what we're going to do and then be done because that's what my work requires of me.

Yeah.

And you're like, oh, oh but for the rest of the day for the rest of the day i'm like but is the world ending i think that you just told me it is and now i'm supposed to deal with that i don't know yeah

okay

i want to ask you guys some quick questions like just a little rapid fire type thing but it doesn't have to be rapid because i've never asked we'll do our best but sometimes i've never

it's not i've never done a rapid thing in my damn life so i try to do rapid and i'm like well i need to give context yeah don't worry about your rapidity okay um

which one of you is the more jealous one and do you ever get jealous

I am not

generally a jealous person I don't get like

too whipped up about that but also it hasn't really

happened with you and I feel like what

I could be yeah she's not I'm not She's not.

I think it's more me because she's literally not.

Do you feel like you're jealous?

I don't feel like you're.

I'm more jealous.

I don't know that I'm like a

super jealous person.

I'm more jealous.

I'm more jealous contextually than you or conceptually than you.

I feel like for sure jealous.

Do you?

No.

You're definitely more jealous than me.

And also, if somebody comes into our situation where I get a weird vibe with, I'm like,

cut all ties.

Yes.

Yeah.

Cut them off.

Cut all ties.

Cause I've been, you know,

traumatized in my past.

And so when I feel the feeling, I like tell you, I'm like, that person crossed a boundary.

I don't know what it is.

Maybe nothing has happened.

Like, literally, they're probably wonderful people.

That's always a fun conversation.

I've had it a few times.

I can't explain.

Are they wonderful again?

Nor can I explain to you why.

Why?

Godspeed.

And then sometimes, I feel like it's like,

sometimes it's like, I know that people are vibing, like you or, you know, whatever.

And sometimes I just like, don't feel threatened.

And I'm like, well, they want to, you do understand what's happening right now.

Like they like you, but it's, it's fine because I don't feel threatened by it.

But

don't ever give me anything to feel threatened by.

That's so interesting.

That's amazing to me.

So is the fact that I feel jealous of certain people, and I haven't been jealous for years, but that's also because we haven't seen any other human beings probably.

That's right.

That's true.

Direct correlation.

Yeah.

COVID has made me a more mature person.

But is it because I feel actually threatened?

That's so embarrassing.

I don't know.

I don't either.

I'll think about it.

Okay.

What do you guys do for fun?

Yeah.

This is a theme for us.

We try to figure out what is the thing that you do that isn't related to like your productivity or that you get nothing out of except for enjoyment.

I keep trying to bring up things that we can do for fun together.

Like I just brought up the other day, like, I think we should get into pickleball.

Like activities?

She wants me to play a fucking sport.

You'll learn when you get retired, Megan.

You'll learn that like you're going to get in.

You don't know what I'm going to do.

What am I going to do to work out and have fun?

Because you got to do it at the same time.

Well, we do just because we have children and that that takes up all of our day.

I mean, I know.

Listen.

Okay, you go first and then I'll give mine.

I think what we do together really well is understand that we need other people.

So like we have a great friend group that we'll make sure we get dinners in with or like plan a weekend and go like hang out at their house.

We've gone vacations.

I think the dinners part.

is a big part of our life, like finding a cool new restaurant or one that has been around forever that we've never been to kind of checking those boxes those to me are like our outlets and things to do i try to get her to do i'm like i love board games and i've tried to like get her into like backgammon or something like that

she just this is also even when i was teaching you dominoes the other day you were just like not i was like wait did you i'm like did you like it yeah yeah i did i was like Did you?

I don't know.

Did I?

I don't know.

Also, I think that there is something about my insecurity.

Like, you are so smart, and especially when we start playing games, Sue has the ability to hold 25 different fully gamed-out situations in her head at one time.

And every single day I leave for my workout, I forget something.

Like, I just can't hold it all in my head.

I don't know, it's somewhere, but like, so I think there's a little bit of that.

So, you're like, and you grew up playing games, and I didn't really like grow up playing games and stuff.

Um,

I think that

I just, the only thing I enjoy doing really outside of, now I say that like outside of my sport, which is a lot and outside of like what I consider my work, which is the, you know, activism and however we want to say it.

I don't even know if activist is the right word.

I just only really care about going to dinner with friends and like.

having fun and seeing other people and like, you know, just that like community and whatever and having conversation.

Like, is, is talking like a hobby?

Because we love

talking, we love to like play out scenarios or do debates or talk about issues.

I mean, we fl especially with our closest friends, like we flush a lot out of like, what's our stance?

How do we talk about it?

What does this mean?

Blah, blah, blah.

And of course, I love shopping.

We can't really do a lot of that now.

But I, it's like, I think that was fashion, everything is like a form of self-expression for me.

And now, like, for you, it's becoming.

Yeah.

And it's like,

outside of that, like I'm not hiking.

I'm not doing other sports.

I'm not doing other physical activities.

I don't,

I've started to get into cooking a little bit.

We'll see how long that lasts.

But, like, I'm also tired.

Like, our lives are busy and we have a lot.

And I just want to go to dinner and eat great food.

And like, but do you remember?

Have good wine.

Do you remember early, like very early in our relationship?

Um, I had already, no, maybe that's not when it happened, but it was early in the relationship within maybe a year.

And we were like trying to plan a vacation.

And you said it first, but I was thinking it.

And it was kind of like, well, we're going to invite other people, right?

And I think it's like, but like, that's, we were together, like, actually in the early part of our relationship, we were together a lot.

But then it was like, yeah, we like other people coming into our space or us going into theirs and like doing all the things we just said.

We've spoken to you.

That's not audible to me.

So do you all like the same sorts of people?

Like, is making friends hard for you?

Are most of your friends queer couples?

Do you ever have a couple where you're like, I don't like her, but you, the other one does?

How is that?

It feels like it's so easy for you the way you're talking about it.

You have, I have, yeah, I'm not as good as like keeping in touch.

I feel like I have a lot of friends.

They're just all over the place.

That's like what sports does.

Yeah.

It's really

done a better job of keeping in touch.

And you have some hometown New York.

Yeah.

Like not, not, not necessarily the ones I grew up with.

There's a couple, but just kind of through the years who you became friends with from

New York, where I'm from.

And those are like the forever

and they've now adopted megan i think they like you better no yeah

which is totally fine but like they are now megan is like now in this group like they have their own individual friendships and relationships and that's we've been lucky in that way that it's like kind of worked out like that but no we don't have a lot of new friends no no no it's kind of like we have such little time as it is making new friends is is like hard and a lot and then it's gonna like take away like it's hard to even schedule a dinner with the friends that the existing friends that we have.

So it's like, I think, where do you meet new friends?

I don't know.

I don't either.

I have no idea.

That to me is the saddest part.

One of the sadder parts about being an athlete is you grow up with someone or a team or a certain amount of teammates.

You have all these experiences, all these shared experiences, the highs, the lows.

Like these are like seriously deep relationships.

Now, you may not know like their names of their siblings, but you're going to know a lot of other things about them.

It's like this weird, unique thing.

But at the same time, the ones you do become super close with,

life goes on.

You all live where you live.

And then they're like, I spoke about Diana.

She lives in Phoenix in California.

And outside of the WNBA season, if I see her once a year, I feel lucky.

And I know it's the same for you and a lot of your friends.

Like, I'm sure you got, like, you guys spent all this time together.

When's the last time you saw each other?

Like, it's just, and that to me is like the saddest part because those relationships would continue to thrive and they just kind of get stunted because you're so far away from each other.

What's the most important thing to each of you and a friend?

And what's a deal breaker?

Oh, there can be absolutely no bullshit, no,

no,

I don't, it's like no games, no bullshit, no dishonesty, no, we don't have time for this.

Like I said, it's already difficult enough to find time.

And I feel like we have to deal with bullshit in all other ways.

It's like,

I don't want that,

that like

friction.

It just feels like a waste of time.

Like, why am I spending time with this person if they're even making me like question anything?

And sort of that, that trust.

Like, I feel like our friend group in New York and even friends that I have kind of scattered, there's just this trust that, like, if I don't talk to you for three months, it's fine.

We'll just pick up at dinner.

Or like, we're always there to kind of support each other and like have each other's back.

It has to be that sort of easy feeling.

Otherwise, I would just rather, like, not in a mean way, I would just like, rather not hang out.

It's totally fine.

Like, we clearly don't vibe or something, but like, if it's not a hundred, it's kind of not worth it.

Like, we'd rather just chill with, you know, with ourselves or like with other friends that we have.

The kind of like forced situation, I'm just like, and I don't know if it comes from being in sports so long.

Like, I can get along with anyone.

If you put me at any dinner table in the entire world, it's like fine.

I know the conversation.

I can like have a conversation, whatever.

But it's like, I've been forced to spend so much time with so many people that I would never choose.

Not in a bad way.

They wouldn't choose me either.

But I've had so much of that.

I want zero of that.

That's right.

Like

moving forward.

We just did this whole thing about friendship.

And that's the science of friendship is like, it should be 100% or nothing.

That we all have this idea that relationships should be suffering.

But actually, friendships are the ones things we get to choose, right?

Like we don't get to choose our freaking family.

Once we get married, we don't really get to choose a partner.

That's like done deal.

Right.

That's like,

but our friendships are the one thing that we can be like, no, 100 or zero.

It's good.

No friction.

And I think, you know, you guys are touching on a lot of stuff that I've thought about, especially over the last five, six years of my retirement.

having these like friends that you you go to camp you're playing on your teams and you you have people around all the time.

One thing that I think will happen when you retire is you're going to get really picky about the people that you spend because you all are so busy

and having those friendships that you do get like chosen family, you know, a lot of especially gay women.

Not that you guys have bad family situations, but I just know that having other queer women in our lives is like really important to feel like you're having that sense of community in some way.

And they're just better.

I mean, being gay is the best thing ever for like every reason under the sun.

Thank God.

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Okay, we kept you for too long already.

This is called We Can Do Hard Things.

What's the hardest thing you're dealing with right now before we leave?

in your life?

What's the hardest?

I mean, I think for me, I've said I I was going to play another year.

It's more than likely my last.

So there's the whole retirement, which is really code word for like identity and like, who are you without this?

So that's like always just kind of swirling in the back, you know, because then I had, like, I was saying earlier, how some days I show up to the workout, I feel bad, some days I feel good.

On the good days, I'm like, maybe I just do this literally another couple of years.

And I know that's just me.

holding on to the identity, not the game itself or any of those things.

So I think that's probably the hardest thing I'm dealing with right now.

That's so honest and beautiful.

Yeah, I mean, the yeah, the aging athlete is

tough because I can't, you know, my life has never been totally wrapped up in soccer.

I've always

felt my identity firmly in other places, which sometimes is like worse because I'm like, do you want to do this?

Like, do you want to keep doing it?

And a lot of other things are wrapped up in it.

So, that's

a little bit.

And then, I think

trying

to

live

in a, like trying to create a world that takes me fully into account.

Sure, you guys feel this way.

I think you feel this way being in women's sports.

Like

every day, I'm like, this is insane.

Like the world that we live in is completely insane.

It doesn't take our full selves into account and so many other full selves into account.

And so how do you,

because it's not like we can just go to another planet and a more, you know, evolved place, like this is where we are, but how do I like live outside of that while breaking that down, but like not getting bogged, bogged down by that?

Like almost like trying to live in the future and setting things up and doing things differently, I think is always like a challenge because it's just,

it's like we can't do things the same way that other, whether it's successful, you know, male athletes or successful, you know, media people, whatever, like we can't do it the way that it was done.

And it's a really difficult trap to not fall into because it, it like makes you think that you can.

And they're like, just do this and just do this and just do this and say this and blah, blah, blah.

And then you get to the end where you've done everything.

And they're like, yeah, it's still not.

You're still not it.

Listen.

But there's, you have to keep doing that, Megan and Sue, because y'all are trailblazers.

And trailblazers are always questioning themselves, like whether we want to believe that or not.

Trailblazers are like, fuck, what am I doing?

Sue,

and I'm sure a lot of people tell you this,

you know, just really take in everything and enjoy your last year.

And what I will tell you is that my life got so much better when I retired.

It got so much better.

The biggest fears that I had were where I was going to make money, how I was going to make money and what I was going to do to get health care.

And the truth is I've made more money in my retirement

much

by just like actually giving more time to myself to like create things and do things that I want to do.

And that's the beauty of being a woman athlete.

There's plenty of chances to make more when you stop.

I mean,

that's actually the wild part.

I think that's what's hard to wrap your head around.

Like being told, I think kind of what you're saying is

you're not valued as maybe an athlete, right?

In the moment, like WNBA, we get, I mean, this, the hate is like crazy.

So you're, you feel like lesser than, but then you walk off the court and, you know, a company wants to sponsor you or somebody wants to hear you speak.

And then you're told you're valued because of, and so it's just like, what?

Like, I don't, that's to me, that's where it's like, yeah, I'm banging my head against the wall.

Yeah, I think that's actually the thing that is the hardest all the time.

And particularly for me since

2019 is like the balance between

doing my job, which is playing soccer.

at least it's one of my jobs, but it's kind of like the cornerstone job, even though it's like the one where I get treated the worst, paid the worst, and all the conditions are the worst.

Everything else kind of is, you know, not relying on it, but, you know, sort of predicated.

Whatever.

And so what's the balance between like doing my job and then like securing my financial future?

Because especially being older.

you know, post 2019, like I'm not an idiot and I'm not going to like be like, no, I'm going to focus 100% on soccer so I can be the best player that I can be and like totally forego my financial security in the future, nor should I have to.

But every minute that you go this way, it takes away from soccer.

And then just constantly feeling like you're at odds with yourself and with your career and all of that and how difficult it is to actually just be a women's professional player in any sort of league with coupling that with this weird, you know, world that's exploded for us kind of off the field.

So, it's just constantly trying not to hate everyone all the time.

Basically, it's like, yes, right.

I hate to say this, and it's probably going to get like, you know, clipped by a Washington Examiner, but sometimes I'm just like, I hate everyone

for everything that you do to all of us.

It's so frustrating.

It's

so frustrating.

It's so fucking infuriating because here's the thing.

Yeah.

Like you don't,

y'all should, y'all should be able to, at this age, at this time in your life, be able to walk away completely fine and financially set for life.

But like we're women athletes, so it's like constantly fighting that battle.

And no, totally.

It's like fighting the powers that be to break.

things down.

But I would really love to just, quite frankly, never deal with U.S.

soccer ever again.

Yeah.

Blow it up.

That would be my, that would be my goal.

That's going to be the clip.

I know.

That's going to be the clip.

And honestly, I've say that right to the board because it's just, they're just,

have they given us a platform?

Yes.

Like, have we been one of the best supported teams in the world?

Better than awful doesn't mean good, but okay.

Yes.

Like, I understand that there is good with it.

But like, to feel like in so many other parts of my life, I'm like moving on and being more, you know, open-minded and progressive and working with people that are not just like-minded in the sense of like a feedback loop, but actually

view me the way that I view myself.

And I want myself to be viewed as a whole human.

And I view them that way.

And like, we view each other that way.

And then sometimes we get stuck back in these old antiquated ways that just, yeah, go ahead.

I like love to use whether it's like movie quotes or like things you saw somewhere and like bring it all back around.

And I don't know why this ever stuck in my head, but I feel like I say it it pretty often.

It's from the movie Selena, and it's when her dad is like, we have to be more Mexican than the Mexicans and more American than the Americans.

And I feel like that is the life of a female athlete.

You have to be like, whatever it is you're supposed to be over here, you have to be that times a thousand.

And whatever it is you're supposed to be over here, that times a thousand.

And you're just stuck in these places.

And it's actually different for every athlete because everyone kind of has their own lane, for lack of a better, that it might show up in.

But yeah, it's like Selena's dad said.

That's That's how I feel.

I don't know if we're going to name this podcast, I hate everybody, or it's like Selena's dad said, because they both I love.

Yeah, it's good.

Well, maybe we'll call it, we'll title it, it's like Selena's dad said.

I hate everybody.

Right?

But it's just,

this is all such big stuff.

And

what you're talking about having evolved past an institution

that

you have to stay in.

I have a friend who talks about a Zen Kohen, which is like, there's a goose that's growing inside of a glass bottle, right?

How do you get the goose outside of the bottle without hurting the goose or shattering the bottle?

And I see you, Megan, trying to do that so

beautifully, where you have this bottle.

that is so fucked up and so small, but is the only container for these younger women coming up so you know you can't say burn it all down even though that's what you do want to say because then you have to come back 20 times and say i didn't mean burn it down i meant like

put a fire

it's totally and it's like really what i want to do being the goose inside the bottle i'm just i i'll break the bottle it's fine I don't care if I cut my foot on the way out.

That's totally fine.

But then don't look at me and be like, oh my God, did you break the bottle?

That's very destructive.

Right.

And I'm like, okay, well, I'm sorry I couldn't fit the lower half of my body through that tiny opening at the top.

Like, it's like they, it's like people want to acknowledge for female athletes now or women who play, you know, female sports, like, we know it's not what it needs to be, but also like, don't talk about that too much and don't push too much.

And also, we'll be the ones that'll continue to, you know, set the benchmarks or make the rules or whatever when actually we do have all the answers.

I firmly believe that.

I feel me and

Jessica Clarendon, the woman that I work with full-time now, Leisure Clarendon, is her wife's place to be made.

So obviously, you know, we have like this whole, you know, fuck it up brain trust going on.

At least we try to.

We always talk about living in the future and like just telling people like, it's going to be okay.

You guys aren't going to die.

Come with us.

It's like everything is going to be okay.

But we do kind of know how to live in the future.

And, like, I feel like if you gave us the keys, I'm sure you guys feel this way, like to whatever institution, whether it's sports or media or this, like, I could do a good job.

I just know that.

And, but it's like,

how many other people think that?

You know, is it just us thinking that and you know, having to try to convince everyone else like we know what's going on?

But

well, if we want to know how to do it, we can watch the WMBA.

I mean, that is true.

That is a good thing.

The t-shirt the goose has on, on

in the glass bottle of the WMBA will lead the way.

Right?

We adore both of you.

Megan, I've adored you forever, but Sue, I just knew you'd be as wonderful as you are.

Thank you.

And thank you, Sue, for your intense gentleness.

I have noticed that every time you start to say something that is a sports metaphor, you start it with, in sports.

And I know you're talking to me and trying to help me through.

And I notice that

I see you.

And I thank you.

Thank you.

I love your take on sports.

Yeah, we love it.

I actually feel Twitter feed.

I feel closer to you in the way that I feel about sports than anything else that I've ever read or whatever.

I'm just all, I always say the sports.

I'm like, go sports.

Like, what?

And like, and it's just a wild.

And I'm like, this is so weird.

Go sports.

So anytime you chime in, it's just the best of ever.

I'm like, what she's up.

Yeah.

So good.

It's a beautiful thing to come to the sports with beginners, mom.

Well, we're lucky.

I mean,

y'all are just, you're all our icons, not just sports icons, but really feminists and women in the world that are doing world-changing things.

And I can't wait for y'all to retire.

The world actually kind of needs

to get outside of the new friends.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm excited for it too.

I'm excited to see what happens when they get together.

It just gets out of the bottle.

We love you.

Go do all the things.

Try to be quiet when each other is on Zoom meetings.

Megan, stop being such a hypocrite.

So true.

So share your feelings.

And to the rest of you.

Oh, they're so cute.

They are so cute.

So glad you have each other.

All right.

When things get hard this week, don't forget we can do hard things.

That's right.

See you back next week.

I give you Tish Milton and Brandy Carlisle.

I walked through fire.

I came came out

the other side

I chased desire,

I made sure I got what's mine

And I continue

to believe

That I'm the one for me

And because I'm mine,

I walk the line.

Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on the map.

A final destination

we lack.

We've stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to belong.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we can do a heart game.

I hit rock bottom, it felt felt like a brand new start.

I'm not the problem,

sometimes

things fall apart.

And I continue

to believe

the best

people are free.

And it took some time,

but I'm finally fine.

Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on that.

A final destination

we lack.

We've stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we

can do a hard

thing.

We're adventurous and heartbreaks on that.

We might get lost, but we're okay with that.

We've stopped asking directions

in some places

they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to belong.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives bring,

we can do hard things.

Yeah, we can do hard things.

Yeah, we

can do hard

things.

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